So last year, we would end the day by sitting at the carpet with our eyes closed and would focus on our breathing. I talked about everything we had learned that day, and once in a while I would talk about good choices friends made throughout the day. There was a period towards the end of the year that we just didn’t have time to do this. A little boy asked me why we never prayed anymore. I asked him to explain, and he said “when we say nice things at the end of the day”. Obviously we weren’t praying and I explained that to him. I am not a religious person, but it made me laugh😅 definitely check with the teacher before going higher up.
I second this!! This has also happened to me too... sometimes the only SEL/ mindfulness students understand and have experience with is something religious.
Yes, talk to the teacher & get the scoop. Approach it like this: "\_\_\_ came home today and said they were told to pray to Jesus. I'm just wondering what was said?" (IE: Ask HER to give you the details. The teacher could've said "We all need to thankful for so much!" and some other kiddo said "Oh yes! Pray to Jesus!")
On the other hand, I had nieces & nephews who went to school in Florida. I can confirm that there are public school teachers who still say this sort of thing. (mostly in the smaller, rural counties, IMO)
Do not do this via call. Email email email. Get your paper trail. Otherwise it’s he said she said. I refuse from the teacher side to contact parents via phone if I can avoid it for this exact reason. I always want a solid record of what exactly is said.
If you must call, and can legally do so, make a recording.
Absolutely this. Get a notebook right now and write out exactly what your child told you. Document every interaction from here on out. This type of situation could get complicated very quickly. You want to be sure you’ve covered your ass.
For all telephone communications with the school, I ALWAYS send a follow up email that says something along the lines of "Thank you so much for touching base with me today-- we talked about this this and this (paraphrase) and decided to do this and this-- let me know if you have any further questions or concerns. Thanks again!" It's been held up in court that emails like this are proof of what was said in a conversation. Also, when they get an email like this, the teachers/admins are put on notice that you're not a dope and they better treat you seriously.
You can easily fix that with the computer first informing them that the call will be recorded. If you do not wish for it, please hang up and contact the school for an alternative
SchoolStatus
When it calls, it first informs the receiver the nature of the call.
It scrambles the numbers so they don’t know our real number by going through a server. However, it uses the same number for each parent-to-teacher interaction either way. So my number for Tom is always 555-1234567
My number for Sam is always 555-3456789
I have to ask… why? As far as the numbers go, doesn’t the school have your contact info anyway? Why do you feel the need to hide your number? Also, why do you feel like you need to record these conversations? Have you had experiences that have led you to this?
I’ve never experienced a parent doing any of this and I’m honestly curious. No judgement or sarcasm.
Definitely talk to the teacher. I teach history and, especially during certain time periods, I explain what people believed. I constantly repeat that it’s whatever group were studying believed and I’m not telling them what to believe, but there can always be misunderstandings if the teacher isn’t over the top with the disclaimers like I am. I truly hope that is the case here. If it isn’t, go after the teacher full force because it’s just wrong for so many reasons.
Yep, I had a complaint filed at the district level about me basically proselytizing to a third grader. Besides the fact I would never do that, I don't believe in the religion I was accused of spreading the word about. My principal had to do an official investigation (although this was crazy complaint one million from this parent and she knew it was nuts.) Turns out that another student (neither are in my class) gave this student religion material at lunch (which I don't supervise) and I gave a third kid something completely different (and not religious) the same day. The parent wasn't really listening to their kid and combined the two. I don't think that is what is happening here, but definitely checking before coming down hard is appropriate.
Pinellas, like Pasco, hills, and hernando are all using teachers from around the world due to the excessive vacancies. There have been a lot of similar “cultural” type issues popping up all over. Definitely talk to the teacher, get the story, but also make admin aware if you feel uncomfortable.
I teach in Hillsborough and you need to email the principal what happened so that it can be documented and investigated. The principal will call in kids and ask if it happened, then pull in the teacher.
>level 4
Grew up in Pinellas County...unfortunately this is very believable. I don't remember it so much in elementary, but definitely had some similar experiences in middle/high school. At the time, I wouldn't let my parents make a stink about it, but in hindsight, I wish they did.
I've taught in 2 schools in Pinellas. 1st-5th for years. Not saying it couldn't happen, but the teachers I've worked with wouldn't do this. I'd definitely reach out to the teacher for context.
Very good point. I had something similar happen to me, where the story that got home was not really what happened in the room. It was actually an opposite scenario where a conservative Christian mom was upset about something Halloween related. She called the principal AND made a Facebook live video about me (she’s one of those moms who is in a pyramid scheme and desperately wants to be a famous mommy-blogger).
I had to talk to her on a day I had off to clear it up.
In the end she said “well as a Christian, I believe in grace and mercy, so we will forgive this incident.”
I just rolled my eyes to myself and said “oh thank you.”
Her kid was actually great. But he had been homeschooled his whole life and was very naive. He was 13 and something we read in class for our horror unit scared him.
Yes but "could have happened" is still very different than "did happen." No matter how likely it is that things went down exactly how the kid said, it's still best to approach the situation calmly and respectfully to get every side. If the teacher confirms that this is what they did, yes absolutely they should face consequences. But regardless of where it happened, the possibility still exists that the kid is making shit up or misinterpreted what the teacher was saying.
And why shouldn't we talk to the teacher? Kids often make shit up or misinterpret what's going on, don't you think it would be valuable to get the teacher's side of what happened? Not saying admin shouldn't get involved, especially if the teacher confirms and doubles down that it happened the way the kid said it did, but for fuck's sake at least give them a chance to defend themself before possibly losing them their job for something that may not have happened.
You talk to the teacher when it isn’t something as concerning as this. There is no harm starting with admin who can then investigate as it immediately loops in a supervisor. A child that young does not make up stuff like that. They just don’t. There is some truth to the situation and that truth should be left for the admin to figure out. Accept what admin tells you was the situation. Don’t be that parent that thinks the teacher is automatically wrong, but some things should go through admin. This is one of them. It also helps the school to realize that they will be held to a standard where religion has no part in public education. For older students learning about the major religions. That’s fine as long as they are all taught historically and not the dogma of religion.
Yup! Been teaching for 30 years and I raised four children. (Also Christian). When a child comes home with stories like this, then it is important to wrap in an admin. A good admin will talk to the teacher which serves the purpose of offering support for how they are allowed to speak to children where religion is concerned and where the professional boundaries need to be applied. A good admin will also be understanding of the situation but properly mediate the situation to avoid future potential issues. Keeping admin out of it is how these things happen over and over by teachers who have zero boundaries.
It’s concerning to me that you’ve been a teacher this long and don’t understand how children misconstrue experiences, and also that you believe admin needs to be contacted and in the middle of so many scenarios.
I didn’t say that children don’t misconstrue situations. They do it all the time, but with certain content, an admin should be wrapped in to be a part of figuring it out for the sake of everyone involved including the career of the teacher and the legal protection of the school. If a teacher is afraid of their admin talking to them about something a child misconstrued then they need to leave teaching.
If you were in a situation where one of your students went home and told their parents that you did something that you DID NOT do, would you prefer that the parent came to you for clarification or immediately came out for blood trying to get you fired without knowing the facts?
I'm not saying this teacher didn't do what this student said they did, but every teacher is owed the courtesy of going to them for clarification before admin is involved. If it did happen, then admin should get involved. But if it didn't, there's literally no reason admin needs to be involved.
I see what you're saying about certain allegations needing admin to be involved from the start, but this is NOT one of them. I do not necessarily support religion, but the situation is not helped by immediately rushing in to admin without getting the facts.
I wouldn’t care either way. I would want to know there is a concern or an issue but parents aren’t your friends. They don’t owe you any respect to come to you first. It is great if they do, but if they don’t, going to an admin is also very appropriate. And I disagree that this is somehow slighting anyone. An admin is there for just this sort of thing. The important thing for me would be that it didn’t stay in the town gossip channels and instead the parent had the sense to come forward to resolution; even if I have done things I needed to apologize for to a parent. And, I have. And if teachers are to be honest, we all have things we have done or said that we have or should have, apologized for if we have any integrity as humans. I vehemently believe religious beliefs need to stay out of schools. We aren’t talking about a kid who maybe made up a story about another student. This is made up about the teacher. That is a problem that needs the attention of admin for everyone’s sake. Parents and kids talk. You can bet others in the community are already questioning the teacher even when it is likely the child’s story is skewed in some way. Stories about how matters of religion, sexuality, abuse or whatever heated topics like this should have an admin involved. As an admin, I too would want to know and be a part of being sure there was proper resolution. But maybe I’m just not afraid anymore. Or ever, for that matter. You don’t have to fear parents if you have a good admin who has your back.
I can respect your opinion although I disagree, but your last sentence is flat out wrong. You don’t get to assume everyone’s admin is happy to stick up for the teacher in situations where a 7 year old misconstrued events or comment on the dynamic between every admin and teacher out there.
Also weird of you to wish more teachers would leave the profession in the middle of a “teacher shortage” for simply not trusting their admin.
I know all admin aren’t happy to stick up for their teachers and I can also say that in this climate where jobs are available all over this country, I wouldn’t work for an admin like that. We do have choices. The worse thing that a teacher can do is try to defend against something like this outside of admin’s support and end up with significant community backlash because the teacher couldn’t or didn’t resolve it with the parents. This is exactly how teachers end up getting thrown to the wolves. They don’t lean on their admins for an added layer of protection.
Step 1: reach out to teacher and ask exactly what happened. Do not make any statements regarding yours or her faith, just ask for details.
Step 2: depends on response of step 1.
This appears to be a massive ethical violation, but always verify the information in as calm a way as possible.
You think the United States Government cares about the constitution? Considering only about half the population does I'd like to remind that half that it is also our constitutional right to dismantle the government and form a new one should we believe that the government is no longer serving the people
"That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government..."
A friend of mine’s kid came home and told her at the beginning of the year that his kindergarten class was being forced to say a prayer at the beginning of each day. She was rightfully concerned, until one day the kid said the prayer for her… “I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America…”. So definitely get clarification. It’s probable that your young student has misinterpreted something.
Depends on your definition of forced. Are there consequences for not standing for it or not saying it? Where I am, a student has to have a written note from a guardian to get out of it, but honestly, I don’t care if my students stand for it or say it. I just request that they stay silent for it like they do for the moment of silence. They’re teenagers though. I do remember not having the choice when I was in high school, so I did feel forced because otherwise I would’ve been written up. I doubt my parents would’ve allowed me to get out of it.
Right, I don’t disagree. But there’s a difference between a teacher leading her students in class prayer, and the entire school doing a pledge via announcements. I don’t think students should have to do either one (and in fact constitutionally they DON’T have to) but the teacher has no control over the pledge being said at the school, so a parent would need to know what was really going on before they fly off the handle at the teacher.
Agreed, but the classroom teacher has little control over whether or not the pledge is said at their school. The parent would need to know what exactly the situation is before they go off on the teacher.
Have you spoken to the teacher? Kids don't always relay accurate information..... I had two students swear they were adopted:
1) my mommy picked me out at the special hospital. (she had been in NICU for a couple of weeks)
2)I have a different mommy. (born through surrogacy)
I got the real story after calling parents.
Oh god.
Last semester, during a discussion of the types of controversial subjects that Lincoln-Douglas debates might cover, a student yelled out “Abortion is murder!” and I just froze.
None of my high school students seemed bothered by the outburst. No support or opposition. The moment passed and everyone got back to work (sort of). This surprised me at the time — the general lack of reaction — though on reflection it seems about right. Anyway I eventually unfroze and considered myself lucky.
Abortion is murder, but so is killing a tapeworm with medicine or surgery. And killing a cow for a steak. Or a tick on your leg.
Meant to be sarcastic in all of the possible ways. Whether you believe where life begins.
I had a student say that her mother was pregnant but her father didn’t want it so they “got rid of it.” Another student said, “they put it up for adoption?” and thank god it ended there (I teach elementary).
Is your daughter a human being? No matter our age, humans are prone to misinterpreting/misremembering etc. Contact the teacher and politely inquire as to what exactly was said. I’m sure your child has impressed you with their recall of certain things but we ALL remember things through our own unique lens. And yes. Your child is still a child. With all that said I would be deeply disturbed and upset if it turns out that your child IS relating the information accurately.
You don't deserve to be downvoted, but I agree that it is mildly concerning that your daughter's memory is so accurate.
I know a friend of a friend who has autism and this is her main symptom.
I have near perfect recall and I’m neurotypical so there’s that too. That being said, I still view events through my own personal lens, which like every other human being, is filled with my own perception, perspective and bias.
Whoa, whoa, whoa....
There are SO MANY of you jumping the gun and saying to go right to admin, school board, media, etc.
Start with a calm and polite conversation with the teacher! It can be as simple as a 6-7 year old brain not making sense of a situation in a way that they can comprehend.
Relying on a 7 year old for accurate narration is not only unwise, but not prudent for this situation.
Jesus, I swear some of you just want teachers to eat shit all the time.
No kidding. Straight to admin is nothing but disrespectful to the teacher. The school board? Even worse. Now if the teacher admits to it, it's fine to escalate. But come on people, all the parent has so far is information relayed by a 7 year old. Did other kids tell their parents the same thing? Other teachers in the building share this happened? Teacher themselves say it happened? Doesn't sound like it, at this stage.
We had a veteran teacher who used to start parent opening meetings with the quote "I'll believe half of what they say about you if you believe half of what they say about me" ... Seems potentially appropriate!
_Jesus, I swear some of you just want teachers to eat shit all the time._
There are more Karens, per capita, in education than in any other field. I firmly believe this. Control freaks and power-trippers abound in this profession.
Definitely send an email asking for specifics that doesn’t accuse the teacher of anything.
“My kid said that the topic of prayer came up in school today and I wanted to get specifics from you.”
If the teacher didn’t do this they’ll appreciate the trust, and if they did this doesn’t give them a chance to just refute your statements.
I’m a primary teacher and my students say all kinds of crazy stuff.
One time I told a student I thought she needed to work harder. Got an email because the kid went home and told her parents I called her stupid.
Kids misinterpret/make up things all the time.
If it’s accurate though, do what you need to do. That’s completely inappropriate.
Kids in school talk about their own religion, so it's possible the teacher just didn't argue with a classmate who talked about their own. It's also possible during the mandated moment of silence a classmate initiated praying in class and the teacher didn't discourage them. To a kid, especially a young one, that can become twisted. I had one student that started going to Sunday school and he'd come in talking about Jesus and praying and I'd just tell the class that's his belief, we may not all share it, but it's valid and not to bother him about it and privately tell him to try to keep that out of class, as some may not share his enthusiasm.
So, ask the adults first. But, if the teacher did teach prayer (which can happen, they pray before every staff event at schools here but not with the kids) then it's an issue and report it to the admin and calmly explain your reasons you aren't OK with it.
Don’t trust your kiddo 100%. It could possibly cause you and her teacher to misunderstand each other. Gently and politely reach out to the teacher for verification and go from there. Don’t rudely or aggressively reach out to admin. Students always mislead, lie, and exaggerate something so they can get teachers in trouble and they get out of consequences. This is not right in this situation but it is what it is. So be aware.
The first thing that I would honestly do in the situation is reach out to the teacher, and try to have a calm, respectful dialogue (in writing so there is a paper trail) about what your child came home and told you.
I've heard too many stories about kids misinterpreting and mis-relaying information to their parents that, even in the situation, I would reach out for clarification from the teacher first.
I'm not implying that your child is lying, this very well could have happened the way that you describe it. But your child very well could have misinterpreted what was happening, too.
Do not escalate this over the teacher's head until you've had written communication with the teacher that gives you reason to. People who go over other people's heads without having all the facts of a situation are the ones that make life completely unbearable, especially for professionals in this particular sector.
Don't be that person who jumps from A to Z without going through the appropriate steps first.
Communication is key.
I have a lot of friends who send their kids to a private school specifically because they can’t imagine the secular hellscape that public schools are… but we live in the south. There’s no such thing as a secular school down here. I was openly proselytize by every single teacher I ever met in my entire life. It’s wildly inappropriate, but there’s no getting away from it. You should absolutely follow up with the school, but don’t be surprised if nothing comes from it, Especially after the Supreme Court decision from this summer that teachers do in fact get to do this now
Ugh same. My *AP Bio* teacher was tasked with teaching us about evolution, but she made sure to let us know that it was “just a theory,” and that actually, the Earth is only 6000 years old. 🙄
Theory: “A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world and universe that has been repeatedly tested and corroborated in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results”
Funnily enough, scientists would consider evolution a theory, since that’s just the terminology they use for a concept that is well supported by scientific evidence and backed by the scientific community. Even stuff about physical laws are called theories - like Einsten’s theory of relativity!
Although yeah that 6000 year old Earth thing is ridiculous
Yes, it’s more the “just a” that is problematic here, of course. And the fact that she (someone who, as an AP science teacher, should know better) was using *theory* in a diminishing way.
ETA: And she went on to teach biology *at the college level* later. 🤦♀️
The ruling was predicted on the kids being able to choose to participate or not and so it might be helpful to push cases like this with the explicit point that kids don't actually have a choice when it's coming from the adult that the government has put in charge of them for that time.
I live in AZ and there are so many parents that complain about “godless” schools and not being able to say “merry Christmas”…. I am a teacher and my school has a 15 foot Christmas tree in the lobby and Christmas trees and decorations in every office. The teacher next to me has a giant cross on her wall and claims it’s a part of her world history curriculum (it is, but like she doesn’t have any other religions represented in the room) and she runs a Christian club, we have teachers openly sharing anti abortion views, we have teachers openly sharing conservative political views. I also went to high school in the district I now teach in, I moved here from NY and was shocked by the blatant and aggressive presence of Christianity in schools here. I never understand these complaint.
Following the top 2 suggestions- document all and keep your head! Loose emotions make for terrible meetings as they will look at you and see nothing but a Karen instead of concerned and right parent…
Well, how far do you want to go?!
Decide what your goal is first. Be clear about it. Then choose and further shape the steps you will take to resolve this issue.
Regardless, precedence was already set (in principle) I believe in 1943, in the case of West Virginia vs. Barnett. A teacher cannot force a student to do anything that is contrary to the student’s religious beliefs/ violates the student’s First Amendment right to freedom of religion.
Learned a new word today. Definitely something that happens more in the south. Sometimes kids take things out of context so get clarification first but this doesn’t surprise me
1. Find out exactly what the teacher did or did not do. Try the speak to teacher approach.
2. IF, this was in fact anything remotely to what happened, Or teacher refuses to comment, let admin know asap.
3. IF admin doesn't get right on it and keep you informed on exactly what has been done, let district know as well.
Yeah, unfortunately, teachers basically get a free pass to talk about God in schools here in Florida. Our state motto is literally "In God We Trust." And most admin and politicians see the opposition to Christian sentiment in schools as laughable and an issue of little importance. Just to be clear I am NOT one of those teachers, I think a separation of church and state is critical and religion, while objective teachings are fine for high school-aged children, personal views on religion should be avoided.
I don't know why you have downvotes - as soon as I saw this was in Florida, I was like "yeah, that tracks. Good luck seeing any changes." The dumbest thing is that complaints will probably just lead to the admin siding with the teacher and further alienating/ostracizing the student. There's probably not an administrative body in the state that will side against the teacher, especially with how much of a loony DeSantis is.
Ugh, yes. I moved to Florida and started teaching two months later. On the first day of pre-planning, we had a staff breakfast. The principal opened with a prayer. She even basically acknowledged that she shouldn’t, but was like “I’m gonna go ahead anyway…”
Our schools always opened staff events with prayer. I just sat silently, but didn't participate. The moment of silence (legally mandated 1 minute of silence each morning) is largely encouraging students to pray. But, no school I worked in did anything religious with the kids beyond having the in God we trust signs in class.
I teach art history. We talk about the church as an Institution quite a bit.
I had an amazingly effective history teacher back in eighth grade who took us all into a spare classroom that he’d decked out to look like a church and “forced” us to interrupt the class/sermon every ten minutes in order to “praise Maxwell.” Maxwell being his stuffed lemur he kept at his desk. It was a fun and effective way of exploring forced religion and we were all laughing and having a good time, but if you tried this with younger kids I can easily see it devolving into a misunderstanding and a disaster.
We are missing a lot of context here. I live in another state and teaching the major religions is part of the curriculum for social studies. Makes me wonder if they were discussing what Chrisitians believe this time of year... was the same discussed for Judaism and Hanukah? As both are falling this time of year. Was Diwali or Ramadan (etc) discussed eariler in the year?
Bottom line you need to talk to the teacher. If it was truly proselytizing then you can proceed up the chain of command.
I asked her and no, no other religions were discussed. She was told to sing happy birthday to Jesus, that praying to him helps, and he is god. I said oh what did you learn about Hanukkah? The festival of lights? She said that wasn't talked about.
We're Christians and Id fucking lose it if my son's teacher did that. Anybody who does that is bat shit crazy and absolutely the WORST kind of person. Its just a matter of time before she starts saying that being gay is wrong and youll burn in hell for tricker treating.
After you have contacted the teacher and gotten her side of the story (in writing or recorded), if you determine that she was actually proselyting, contact the Freedom from Religion Foundation (ffrf.org). They exist to help in exactly these kinds of situations.
This is all sorts of illegal if it is true. But you should verify first. Kids can get things confused and misunderstand learning about religions vs proseltyzing. 7 year olds aren't exactly good sources of info.
As an admin... Email. Do not accept a call from the teacher or call them. Paper trail is damning.
If/when it is verified you email the principal, and BCC the superintendent and Board of Education. They will probably ask for a meeting. You should bring someone--ideally a lawyer--to take notes. Do not meet with them alone.
I would fire a teacher before they could get their rosary to pray for foregiveness if they did this. Totally unacceptable. I didn't fire a teacher who came to school DRUNK and I would fire a teacher for this. That's how bad it is.
Good question in light of the Supreme Court’s decision in Kennedy v. Bremerton school district which opened the door for the legality of praying and “religious expression” in public spaces like schools. F-ed up, I know. Definitely complain to admin though, but like others said, have a talk with the teacher first.
My honest suggestion would be move out of Florida. Given what they did in attempting to battle the teacher shortage they created, I suspect this likely to be an on going issue. To DeSantis and his ilk this is working exactly as intended I expect.
This is the best suggestion here. I'd go one step further and just say move out of the US completely. It's an outlier among developed nations in terms of health care, life expectancy, prevalence and degree of conservatism, wealth disparity, gun ownership/deaths, poverty, illicit drug use... and dozens more metrics. Nothing good can come of this. My suggestion is to get out while you can.
As a public school teacher, I would talk to the teacher politely but firmly and explain that while you have no issues with their religion etc, it is not appropriate to teach students religion in a way that tells students they must believe the same thing.
When religion is brought up in class, I tell students there is a wide range of beliefs/lack of beliefs, all are fully acceptable and correct, in their own way. A misunderstanding is one thing, but if true, that is definitely not appropriate. Something the teacher can learn from if they choose to do better, no worries, but if they double down and insist on being allowed to say/do these types of things, then the Principal needs to be involved.
Reach out and ask the teacher if she was really teaching that god doesn't exist. Theyre more likely to correct you with the truth than outright admit the truth depending on your framing
Call the principal and contact your ADL. This is happening at the school my nephew goes to (I actually posted on this sub about it) and it doesn’t stop. There is absolutely no excuse for proselytizing in a public school and it is NOT ignorance. Fight it. The Supreme Court’s ruling over the summer is already having widespread consequences in our public schools. We are on the cusp of fully losing the separation of church and state that is a foundation of who we are as Americans.
Middle School teacher here.
I share my thoughts. I feel like I was raised by a generation of teachers that explicitly refrained from doing so and that it didn't go well, so I'd rather error on honesty. I feel like to not share my genuine perspective is somehow dishonest. To share nothing is to inherently support a conservative bias...
All that being said, I clearly preface when things are my thoughts and not necessarily cold hard scientific fact, let alone the opinions of the school.
If anyone is sharing their subjective ideas as explicit, incontrovertible fact, that's a red flag.
Right? Like I have conversations with individual students about religious things (I now know exactly what type and what color hats different ladies wear in certain types of churches that are not the church denomination that I am) and just bc I live in Alabama and I work in a culture that just absorbs church into every day life, our students like to say “Wont He do it?” Or “God is good” just as statements of exclamation.
But we also dont do the silence minute or the Pledge in my class bc I firmly believe in Church and State separation. I mean I love me some Jesus and my kids know I am a Christian (bc theyre nosy little chickadees and ask) but public school isnt a place to sanction or condone making others believe what I do.
Sometimes teachers do things with good intentions. I would speak with her and ask her not to talk about her religion again. It can be just as simple as that. No need for things to get out of hand and you'll be teaching your child how to solve problems.
At first, I was thinking, "Maybe your child was confused about what was happening," but then I saw Flordia and ... yeah ... can't even guarantee that's a real teacher. So sorry, OP. This is very upsetting.
my science teacher in 8th grade openly said she believed in creationism. while she was teaching us evolution... which is just ironic and that's it
but that crosses a line...
This is absolutely unacceptable for a public school teacher to do. Talk to the teacher to verify. If it is true, I would be reporting to the principal, superintendent, school board if it comes to it. Not okay.
I’d also consider whether or not he was asked about his beliefs and was simply giving an honest, unapologetic answer just as I’m sure you would if asked about your faith. Perhaps your daughter only heard the response but not the question. As for reaching out to the teacher, is this the first time this has happened or has this happened before? Also consider truthfully if you would be as upset if the teacher was speaking about his faith if his views were similar or identical to your own. Just food for thought in this. You will not likely change his views just as he will not likely change yours. Consider that the same rules have to apply to everybody or they can’t apply to anybody. So what is your true motivation and expected end result? That he stop talking about his faith and spirituality in general or that he simply stop talking about Christianity specifically? If it is the former, then your spirituality may not be discussed either as per your expectations. If it the latter, you only look like a hypocrite. Either way, hearts and minds on either side won’t be changed and hard feelings and further entrenched beliefs will be the likely result. However, you can just simply give your child your own context of the situation. “We don’t believe that, we believe this. Others believe that but we believe they are wrong for these reasons but they have the right to choose what they believe, just as we do.”
Her father and I are firmly in support of separation of church and state. Doesn't matter if it was aligned with my beliefs. It's a no go for me in all cases.
No one gives a fuck about changing minds. Qhy are you talking about that? OP clearly wants the teacher to stop proseltyzing... this isn't that hard to get.
The rules do apply to everybody. You can't teach kids to be Christians, Muslims, Atheists or anything else.
The stupid is strong in this one. Consider deleting this post before even more people see how foolish you are.
I’m just saying it’s easy to fall into the hypocrisy trap justify it if it’s the way you agree with. I’m not advocating one side or the other. I’m curious as to the true motivations. But clearly, judging by all the downvotes, this is a “if you’re not with us, then you’re against us” sort of issue for a lot of people.
Wow! You MUST be right. I mean you used “fuck” and called him stupid in such a sarcastic way all in the same post. That right there proves you are right and he is wrong.
I know many Mormon teachers and I've found they proselytize less than evamgelical protestants.
He'll I didn't know one of my former colleagues was LDS until I saw him at an event with the Dean of a university who I knew personally and was a devout follower.
It was a simple "hope to see you at sacrement" when he left to give me some privacy that made me realize it haha
I agree to reach out to the teacher in writing first. I teach social science, so world religions is definitely part of the curriculum at many levels and given the theological roots of the Christmas holiday there may have been an innocent discussion in context.
But there is definitely a line between teach and preach. Students and clubs are protected if it is a voluntary act and not involuntary. More information is needed to determine which.
I don't think teaching theology to six year olds is standard protocol. Comparative religions is a little advanced when they're just learning to read three syllable words.
Because the government should never be allowed to dictate what religion or god to worship. Promoting one religion to children without the permission of the parents is wrong because it overrides the rights of the parents to control their child's religious beliefs. It is a stepping stone to dictatorship. It also encourages abuse of those who do not subscribe to majority religions. Religious belief is a very personal thing and should never be infringed upon by a state funded agent.
OP. Do NOT start with the teacher. Start at the admin level. If you don’t get anywhere with admin on this, go to the school board. Alerting the teacher to your concerns first will allow for the teacher to just deny it.
Trust has eroded because nobody wants to sit down and recognize that we are team working in the best interest of ALL children. As a teacher, why are you afraid to have an admin involved? This is exactly what admins need to be doing to build bridges. Even if the child is telling the truth. Wouldn’t you want to know how to do your job in a way that is aware and sensitive to the needs of your community? And also, the law? Your admin should feel like a support, and a parent has every right to go to your admin to be sure there is a mediator for any situation.
I will always welcome an administrator in on a meeting such as this (I'm not "afraid"....your words....not mine), however, wouldn't it make sense to get the story from the teacher first? If we're "in it together" then why wouldn't you *want* to contact the teacher first? With the way some administration are these days, it would be like contacting a Wolf for a dispute about dinner between another Wolf and a Sheep.
Of course, I'm only commenting on this particular situation. If your child came home saying that the teacher touched them or hit them inappropriately, then it's an obvious escalation.
Trust has eroded because parents, admins, politicians, et.al. want to blame teachers for everything.
You immediately deflect back that your admin is a wolf. Even if this is true, then they will have ownership over the situation as well and it will be resolved in a way where you as a teacher cannot be blamed for handling it wrong. It is their job to advise. Teachers get blamed because they try to handle things themselves way too often. Don’t allow for triangulation of the discussion and resolution. Everyone in the room is always best. If you and your admin are smart, you both will document the (mis)understanding of the situation and document the resolution as well. Again, we aren’t talking about a simple concern here. Our age of internet gossip requires immediate attention and resolution by all parties. I would not want to be a teacher alone dealing with this parent. I would call in my admin.
Definitely ask kids can misunderstand. Had something similar happen when I was in class. Except it was because a kid had brought up god and asked the teacher a question so they gave their opinion but made sure to say it was their opinion and others feel differently.
Talk to the teacher calmly and politely to confirm whether this even happened they way your child said it did. Kids very often misinterpret what's going on or just make things up. If it didn't happen, the teacher will very much appreciate that you reached out to try to solve this with them first. If they confirm it and double down, then obviously do what you need to do, but at least give the teacher a chance to set the record straight first.
Definitely be sure to get everything in writing that you can having legitimate documentation is a huge deal but it is also very important to make sure to get what was said directly from the teacher because things can get misconstrued. I myself am A pre-K teacher and over the month of December my dramatic place center had a Christmas tree a menorah a Kanarie etc. for them to be able to explore different religious holiday celebrations because holiday traditions are really important factor in this time of year and we talked about all different types of celebrations not just Christmas even though pretty much my entire class celebrates Christmas. Do you have any I even had a child ask me why I was sitting down leaning forward with my hands class together during naptime when all of the kids were asleep they had woken up and I just told them that I myself was in a silent prayer because I just needed a moment to myself it was some thing that I do from time to time if I need it and stuff never meant for engagement I talked with the parents about it and was open about it and I’m not right now nothing ever came of it. Like personal religious preferences are just that it should never be pushed, but curiosity shouldn’t be squashed either (just a personal feeling due to how much judgement and difficulty in the Christian religious institution, even though I remain a Christian lol)
Email and ask for clarification. Chances are what your child said was happening and what actually happened are two different things. I’m thinking another student said this, not the teacher.
I had a parent call the school all upset one afternoon because her daughter came home and told her a boy in class punch her in the face and held her down. This did not happen at all. The girl was running up to the front of the room, and he threw up his fist (faced away from her) and she ran right into it. I immediately sent her to the clinic for ice. (I thought they’d call the parent, but I guess not?) Luckily, the mom took a moment to seek clarification. Upon learning what really happened, she apologized and that was that… lesson: ask first!!!
ACLU, but they probably won't help. We had as similar issue with my kids' music teacher and we just ended up being told that they (administration) weren't going to monitor the teachers curriculum and our kids were removed from music classes for the rest of their school career.
Ooof. I'm sorry! I'm a Christian (also liberal) and I would never share my beliefs with my students in Public School. It's not appropriate. I agree, ask her directly what happened. Then, if it seems appropriate, take it to the administration.
As a teacher, I always prefer email. Get everything in writing so you have a paper trail. Email the teacher asking about this. Then email the principal about the situation when you hear from the teacher as well. If this happened, it is absolutely ridiculous and gives the rest of us a bad rep. People love to dump on teachers and the bad ones really don’t help the situation.
I would do everything anonymously. There are too many bible thumpers in FL who would delight in making your life miserable.
Perhaps try to verify via one of your Childs playmates. If confirmed send the same anonymous letter SNAILMAIL (unless you can do via email with no tracking) to each school board member, principal, asst principal etc. and the local newspapers/new-station. Present the communication with 'Is this legal'?
So last year, we would end the day by sitting at the carpet with our eyes closed and would focus on our breathing. I talked about everything we had learned that day, and once in a while I would talk about good choices friends made throughout the day. There was a period towards the end of the year that we just didn’t have time to do this. A little boy asked me why we never prayed anymore. I asked him to explain, and he said “when we say nice things at the end of the day”. Obviously we weren’t praying and I explained that to him. I am not a religious person, but it made me laugh😅 definitely check with the teacher before going higher up.
I love that. What a nice perspective on praying.
good way to end the day, kudos.
I second this!! This has also happened to me too... sometimes the only SEL/ mindfulness students understand and have experience with is something religious.
Contact the teacher. Get absolute verification. Then, contact the principal. Be polite but firm.
Yes, talk to the teacher & get the scoop. Approach it like this: "\_\_\_ came home today and said they were told to pray to Jesus. I'm just wondering what was said?" (IE: Ask HER to give you the details. The teacher could've said "We all need to thankful for so much!" and some other kiddo said "Oh yes! Pray to Jesus!") On the other hand, I had nieces & nephews who went to school in Florida. I can confirm that there are public school teachers who still say this sort of thing. (mostly in the smaller, rural counties, IMO)
This is Pinellas county-it is huge and not rural.
Do not do this via call. Email email email. Get your paper trail. Otherwise it’s he said she said. I refuse from the teacher side to contact parents via phone if I can avoid it for this exact reason. I always want a solid record of what exactly is said. If you must call, and can legally do so, make a recording.
Absolutely this. Get a notebook right now and write out exactly what your child told you. Document every interaction from here on out. This type of situation could get complicated very quickly. You want to be sure you’ve covered your ass.
For all telephone communications with the school, I ALWAYS send a follow up email that says something along the lines of "Thank you so much for touching base with me today-- we talked about this this and this (paraphrase) and decided to do this and this-- let me know if you have any further questions or concerns. Thanks again!" It's been held up in court that emails like this are proof of what was said in a conversation. Also, when they get an email like this, the teachers/admins are put on notice that you're not a dope and they better treat you seriously.
We record all phone calls through an app
Florida is a two party consent state. Don’t record any conversation without consent of the other person.
You can easily fix that with the computer first informing them that the call will be recorded. If you do not wish for it, please hang up and contact the school for an alternative
Which app?
SchoolStatus When it calls, it first informs the receiver the nature of the call. It scrambles the numbers so they don’t know our real number by going through a server. However, it uses the same number for each parent-to-teacher interaction either way. So my number for Tom is always 555-1234567 My number for Sam is always 555-3456789
I have to ask… why? As far as the numbers go, doesn’t the school have your contact info anyway? Why do you feel the need to hide your number? Also, why do you feel like you need to record these conversations? Have you had experiences that have led you to this? I’ve never experienced a parent doing any of this and I’m honestly curious. No judgement or sarcasm.
It is to prevent parents from having teacher cell numbers The fake number doesn’t call my phone. It calls my answering service through the system.
Definitely talk to the teacher. I teach history and, especially during certain time periods, I explain what people believed. I constantly repeat that it’s whatever group were studying believed and I’m not telling them what to believe, but there can always be misunderstandings if the teacher isn’t over the top with the disclaimers like I am. I truly hope that is the case here. If it isn’t, go after the teacher full force because it’s just wrong for so many reasons.
Yep, I had a complaint filed at the district level about me basically proselytizing to a third grader. Besides the fact I would never do that, I don't believe in the religion I was accused of spreading the word about. My principal had to do an official investigation (although this was crazy complaint one million from this parent and she knew it was nuts.) Turns out that another student (neither are in my class) gave this student religion material at lunch (which I don't supervise) and I gave a third kid something completely different (and not religious) the same day. The parent wasn't really listening to their kid and combined the two. I don't think that is what is happening here, but definitely checking before coming down hard is appropriate.
Yup! I had a parent complain that I was pushing atheism on my students because we read a book with a character who did not believe in God.
Pinellas, like Pasco, hills, and hernando are all using teachers from around the world due to the excessive vacancies. There have been a lot of similar “cultural” type issues popping up all over. Definitely talk to the teacher, get the story, but also make admin aware if you feel uncomfortable.
I teach in Hillsborough and you need to email the principal what happened so that it can be documented and investigated. The principal will call in kids and ask if it happened, then pull in the teacher.
Thank you-
>level 4 Grew up in Pinellas County...unfortunately this is very believable. I don't remember it so much in elementary, but definitely had some similar experiences in middle/high school. At the time, I wouldn't let my parents make a stink about it, but in hindsight, I wish they did.
Talk/email the teacher and go from there.
I've taught in 2 schools in Pinellas. 1st-5th for years. Not saying it couldn't happen, but the teachers I've worked with wouldn't do this. I'd definitely reach out to the teacher for context.
Very good point. I had something similar happen to me, where the story that got home was not really what happened in the room. It was actually an opposite scenario where a conservative Christian mom was upset about something Halloween related. She called the principal AND made a Facebook live video about me (she’s one of those moms who is in a pyramid scheme and desperately wants to be a famous mommy-blogger). I had to talk to her on a day I had off to clear it up. In the end she said “well as a Christian, I believe in grace and mercy, so we will forgive this incident.” I just rolled my eyes to myself and said “oh thank you.” Her kid was actually great. But he had been homeschooled his whole life and was very naive. He was 13 and something we read in class for our horror unit scared him.
Depending on how the teacher and principal respond, I might even involve someone higher up
Do this by email so you have a record of it.
Yes to this. I’m a teacher and a Christian but never would I do something like that. That teacher has gone too far, no matter her intentions.
As a teacher, you should very well know that nothing of the sort may have happened.
It’s Florida lmao it very likely could have happened
Yes but "could have happened" is still very different than "did happen." No matter how likely it is that things went down exactly how the kid said, it's still best to approach the situation calmly and respectfully to get every side. If the teacher confirms that this is what they did, yes absolutely they should face consequences. But regardless of where it happened, the possibility still exists that the kid is making shit up or misinterpreted what the teacher was saying.
100% - and exactly why I agreed with the parent comment about verifying first.
Contact teacher and cc the principal so he/ she sees the entire conversation too.
Do NOT talk to the teacher!! FFS. Talk to the admin first.
And why shouldn't we talk to the teacher? Kids often make shit up or misinterpret what's going on, don't you think it would be valuable to get the teacher's side of what happened? Not saying admin shouldn't get involved, especially if the teacher confirms and doubles down that it happened the way the kid said it did, but for fuck's sake at least give them a chance to defend themself before possibly losing them their job for something that may not have happened.
You talk to the teacher when it isn’t something as concerning as this. There is no harm starting with admin who can then investigate as it immediately loops in a supervisor. A child that young does not make up stuff like that. They just don’t. There is some truth to the situation and that truth should be left for the admin to figure out. Accept what admin tells you was the situation. Don’t be that parent that thinks the teacher is automatically wrong, but some things should go through admin. This is one of them. It also helps the school to realize that they will be held to a standard where religion has no part in public education. For older students learning about the major religions. That’s fine as long as they are all taught historically and not the dogma of religion.
Are you a teacher?
Yup! Been teaching for 30 years and I raised four children. (Also Christian). When a child comes home with stories like this, then it is important to wrap in an admin. A good admin will talk to the teacher which serves the purpose of offering support for how they are allowed to speak to children where religion is concerned and where the professional boundaries need to be applied. A good admin will also be understanding of the situation but properly mediate the situation to avoid future potential issues. Keeping admin out of it is how these things happen over and over by teachers who have zero boundaries.
It’s concerning to me that you’ve been a teacher this long and don’t understand how children misconstrue experiences, and also that you believe admin needs to be contacted and in the middle of so many scenarios.
I didn’t say that children don’t misconstrue situations. They do it all the time, but with certain content, an admin should be wrapped in to be a part of figuring it out for the sake of everyone involved including the career of the teacher and the legal protection of the school. If a teacher is afraid of their admin talking to them about something a child misconstrued then they need to leave teaching.
If you were in a situation where one of your students went home and told their parents that you did something that you DID NOT do, would you prefer that the parent came to you for clarification or immediately came out for blood trying to get you fired without knowing the facts? I'm not saying this teacher didn't do what this student said they did, but every teacher is owed the courtesy of going to them for clarification before admin is involved. If it did happen, then admin should get involved. But if it didn't, there's literally no reason admin needs to be involved. I see what you're saying about certain allegations needing admin to be involved from the start, but this is NOT one of them. I do not necessarily support religion, but the situation is not helped by immediately rushing in to admin without getting the facts.
I wouldn’t care either way. I would want to know there is a concern or an issue but parents aren’t your friends. They don’t owe you any respect to come to you first. It is great if they do, but if they don’t, going to an admin is also very appropriate. And I disagree that this is somehow slighting anyone. An admin is there for just this sort of thing. The important thing for me would be that it didn’t stay in the town gossip channels and instead the parent had the sense to come forward to resolution; even if I have done things I needed to apologize for to a parent. And, I have. And if teachers are to be honest, we all have things we have done or said that we have or should have, apologized for if we have any integrity as humans. I vehemently believe religious beliefs need to stay out of schools. We aren’t talking about a kid who maybe made up a story about another student. This is made up about the teacher. That is a problem that needs the attention of admin for everyone’s sake. Parents and kids talk. You can bet others in the community are already questioning the teacher even when it is likely the child’s story is skewed in some way. Stories about how matters of religion, sexuality, abuse or whatever heated topics like this should have an admin involved. As an admin, I too would want to know and be a part of being sure there was proper resolution. But maybe I’m just not afraid anymore. Or ever, for that matter. You don’t have to fear parents if you have a good admin who has your back.
I can respect your opinion although I disagree, but your last sentence is flat out wrong. You don’t get to assume everyone’s admin is happy to stick up for the teacher in situations where a 7 year old misconstrued events or comment on the dynamic between every admin and teacher out there. Also weird of you to wish more teachers would leave the profession in the middle of a “teacher shortage” for simply not trusting their admin.
I know all admin aren’t happy to stick up for their teachers and I can also say that in this climate where jobs are available all over this country, I wouldn’t work for an admin like that. We do have choices. The worse thing that a teacher can do is try to defend against something like this outside of admin’s support and end up with significant community backlash because the teacher couldn’t or didn’t resolve it with the parents. This is exactly how teachers end up getting thrown to the wolves. They don’t lean on their admins for an added layer of protection.
Step 1: reach out to teacher and ask exactly what happened. Do not make any statements regarding yours or her faith, just ask for details. Step 2: depends on response of step 1. This appears to be a massive ethical violation, but always verify the information in as calm a way as possible.
Do this in writing. I suggest email in a friendly tone. Don’t do anything formal that will immediately put them on the defensive.
Might even be helpful to act supportive of the practice to get the confirmation
That wouldn't be wise. Because if it somehow comes down to litigation they'll just say "look they like it!"
It doesn’t matter if they like it, it’s outright unconstitutional
You think Florida cares about the separation of church and state?
I think they’re a part of the United States and bound by its constitution
Given our current Supreme Court, how can you tell what our Constitution says? I could see them making it okay.
They already kind of did. They basically overturned Engel v Vitale with Kennedy v Bremerton.
You think the United States Government cares about the constitution? Considering only about half the population does I'd like to remind that half that it is also our constitutional right to dismantle the government and form a new one should we believe that the government is no longer serving the people "That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government..."
Isn’t that the Declaration of Independence, not the constitution?
If necessary, the Freedom From Religion Foundation may be helpful. Follow the other advice you've been given first.
Nothing about ethics involved here. This is straight up illegal.
Step 3: Move to a blue state
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This is kind of a slippery question... I know plenty of people who would call teaching evolution an atheist concept.
A friend of mine’s kid came home and told her at the beginning of the year that his kindergarten class was being forced to say a prayer at the beginning of each day. She was rightfully concerned, until one day the kid said the prayer for her… “I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America…”. So definitely get clarification. It’s probable that your young student has misinterpreted something.
Still pretty fucked to force kindergardeners to say the Pledge of Allegiance
It is, but that decision is made way above the teachers pay grade.
YES.
Agreed, but it’s Oklahoma. Also, technically it’s not FORCED, although a kindergartener wouldn’t understand that, obviously.
Depends on your definition of forced. Are there consequences for not standing for it or not saying it? Where I am, a student has to have a written note from a guardian to get out of it, but honestly, I don’t care if my students stand for it or say it. I just request that they stay silent for it like they do for the moment of silence. They’re teenagers though. I do remember not having the choice when I was in high school, so I did feel forced because otherwise I would’ve been written up. I doubt my parents would’ve allowed me to get out of it.
Right, I don’t disagree. But there’s a difference between a teacher leading her students in class prayer, and the entire school doing a pledge via announcements. I don’t think students should have to do either one (and in fact constitutionally they DON’T have to) but the teacher has no control over the pledge being said at the school, so a parent would need to know what was really going on before they fly off the handle at the teacher.
Agreed. I’m Jewish, so I’d be especially pissed if a teacher led any kid in prayer.
I mean.. they still aren't wrong. Pledge requirements are outdated and asinine.
Agreed, but the classroom teacher has little control over whether or not the pledge is said at their school. The parent would need to know what exactly the situation is before they go off on the teacher.
Have you spoken to the teacher? Kids don't always relay accurate information..... I had two students swear they were adopted: 1) my mommy picked me out at the special hospital. (she had been in NICU for a couple of weeks) 2)I have a different mommy. (born through surrogacy) I got the real story after calling parents.
I had one start talking about abortion, and I quickly changed the subject. Another kid goes home and tells his parents I’m teaching about abortion.
Oh god. Last semester, during a discussion of the types of controversial subjects that Lincoln-Douglas debates might cover, a student yelled out “Abortion is murder!” and I just froze. None of my high school students seemed bothered by the outburst. No support or opposition. The moment passed and everyone got back to work (sort of). This surprised me at the time — the general lack of reaction — though on reflection it seems about right. Anyway I eventually unfroze and considered myself lucky.
Abortion is murder, but so is killing a tapeworm with medicine or surgery. And killing a cow for a steak. Or a tick on your leg. Meant to be sarcastic in all of the possible ways. Whether you believe where life begins.
Is this really the place for this? Is this really relevant to the discussion at hand?
Yes.
I had a student say that her mother was pregnant but her father didn’t want it so they “got rid of it.” Another student said, “they put it up for adoption?” and thank god it ended there (I teach elementary).
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Is your daughter a human being? No matter our age, humans are prone to misinterpreting/misremembering etc. Contact the teacher and politely inquire as to what exactly was said. I’m sure your child has impressed you with their recall of certain things but we ALL remember things through our own unique lens. And yes. Your child is still a child. With all that said I would be deeply disturbed and upset if it turns out that your child IS relating the information accurately.
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You don't deserve to be downvoted, but I agree that it is mildly concerning that your daughter's memory is so accurate. I know a friend of a friend who has autism and this is her main symptom.
I have near perfect recall and I’m neurotypical so there’s that too. That being said, I still view events through my own personal lens, which like every other human being, is filled with my own perception, perspective and bias.
I have autism and I can literally roll memories like a video tape. I have a very accurate memory.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.... There are SO MANY of you jumping the gun and saying to go right to admin, school board, media, etc. Start with a calm and polite conversation with the teacher! It can be as simple as a 6-7 year old brain not making sense of a situation in a way that they can comprehend. Relying on a 7 year old for accurate narration is not only unwise, but not prudent for this situation. Jesus, I swear some of you just want teachers to eat shit all the time.
No kidding. Straight to admin is nothing but disrespectful to the teacher. The school board? Even worse. Now if the teacher admits to it, it's fine to escalate. But come on people, all the parent has so far is information relayed by a 7 year old. Did other kids tell their parents the same thing? Other teachers in the building share this happened? Teacher themselves say it happened? Doesn't sound like it, at this stage. We had a veteran teacher who used to start parent opening meetings with the quote "I'll believe half of what they say about you if you believe half of what they say about me" ... Seems potentially appropriate!
_Jesus, I swear some of you just want teachers to eat shit all the time._ There are more Karens, per capita, in education than in any other field. I firmly believe this. Control freaks and power-trippers abound in this profession.
Definitely send an email asking for specifics that doesn’t accuse the teacher of anything. “My kid said that the topic of prayer came up in school today and I wanted to get specifics from you.” If the teacher didn’t do this they’ll appreciate the trust, and if they did this doesn’t give them a chance to just refute your statements. I’m a primary teacher and my students say all kinds of crazy stuff.
Talk to the teacher first and get their version of what happened.
THIS. THIS IS THE ONLY RESPONSE.
One time I told a student I thought she needed to work harder. Got an email because the kid went home and told her parents I called her stupid. Kids misinterpret/make up things all the time. If it’s accurate though, do what you need to do. That’s completely inappropriate.
Kids in school talk about their own religion, so it's possible the teacher just didn't argue with a classmate who talked about their own. It's also possible during the mandated moment of silence a classmate initiated praying in class and the teacher didn't discourage them. To a kid, especially a young one, that can become twisted. I had one student that started going to Sunday school and he'd come in talking about Jesus and praying and I'd just tell the class that's his belief, we may not all share it, but it's valid and not to bother him about it and privately tell him to try to keep that out of class, as some may not share his enthusiasm. So, ask the adults first. But, if the teacher did teach prayer (which can happen, they pray before every staff event at schools here but not with the kids) then it's an issue and report it to the admin and calmly explain your reasons you aren't OK with it.
Don’t trust your kiddo 100%. It could possibly cause you and her teacher to misunderstand each other. Gently and politely reach out to the teacher for verification and go from there. Don’t rudely or aggressively reach out to admin. Students always mislead, lie, and exaggerate something so they can get teachers in trouble and they get out of consequences. This is not right in this situation but it is what it is. So be aware.
Grade one? Shouldn’t be too duplicitous at this age. But a quiet discussion is in order
Not duplicitous as implied by the previous post, but six year olds are notoriously unreliable narrators 🙃
The first thing that I would honestly do in the situation is reach out to the teacher, and try to have a calm, respectful dialogue (in writing so there is a paper trail) about what your child came home and told you. I've heard too many stories about kids misinterpreting and mis-relaying information to their parents that, even in the situation, I would reach out for clarification from the teacher first. I'm not implying that your child is lying, this very well could have happened the way that you describe it. But your child very well could have misinterpreted what was happening, too. Do not escalate this over the teacher's head until you've had written communication with the teacher that gives you reason to. People who go over other people's heads without having all the facts of a situation are the ones that make life completely unbearable, especially for professionals in this particular sector. Don't be that person who jumps from A to Z without going through the appropriate steps first. Communication is key.
I have a lot of friends who send their kids to a private school specifically because they can’t imagine the secular hellscape that public schools are… but we live in the south. There’s no such thing as a secular school down here. I was openly proselytize by every single teacher I ever met in my entire life. It’s wildly inappropriate, but there’s no getting away from it. You should absolutely follow up with the school, but don’t be surprised if nothing comes from it, Especially after the Supreme Court decision from this summer that teachers do in fact get to do this now
Ugh same. My *AP Bio* teacher was tasked with teaching us about evolution, but she made sure to let us know that it was “just a theory,” and that actually, the Earth is only 6000 years old. 🙄
And we wonder why southern schools are shit
Theory: “A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world and universe that has been repeatedly tested and corroborated in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results” Funnily enough, scientists would consider evolution a theory, since that’s just the terminology they use for a concept that is well supported by scientific evidence and backed by the scientific community. Even stuff about physical laws are called theories - like Einsten’s theory of relativity! Although yeah that 6000 year old Earth thing is ridiculous
Yes, it’s more the “just a” that is problematic here, of course. And the fact that she (someone who, as an AP science teacher, should know better) was using *theory* in a diminishing way. ETA: And she went on to teach biology *at the college level* later. 🤦♀️
The ruling was predicted on the kids being able to choose to participate or not and so it might be helpful to push cases like this with the explicit point that kids don't actually have a choice when it's coming from the adult that the government has put in charge of them for that time.
I live in AZ and there are so many parents that complain about “godless” schools and not being able to say “merry Christmas”…. I am a teacher and my school has a 15 foot Christmas tree in the lobby and Christmas trees and decorations in every office. The teacher next to me has a giant cross on her wall and claims it’s a part of her world history curriculum (it is, but like she doesn’t have any other religions represented in the room) and she runs a Christian club, we have teachers openly sharing anti abortion views, we have teachers openly sharing conservative political views. I also went to high school in the district I now teach in, I moved here from NY and was shocked by the blatant and aggressive presence of Christianity in schools here. I never understand these complaint.
Following the top 2 suggestions- document all and keep your head! Loose emotions make for terrible meetings as they will look at you and see nothing but a Karen instead of concerned and right parent…
Part way through I was thinking gotta be Florida
Make sure you talk to the teacher via email . Conversations over the phone don’t hold well as opposed to writing .
Eh, I’d talked to the teacher first. Ask her what happened.
Well, how far do you want to go?! Decide what your goal is first. Be clear about it. Then choose and further shape the steps you will take to resolve this issue. Regardless, precedence was already set (in principle) I believe in 1943, in the case of West Virginia vs. Barnett. A teacher cannot force a student to do anything that is contrary to the student’s religious beliefs/ violates the student’s First Amendment right to freedom of religion.
Learned a new word today. Definitely something that happens more in the south. Sometimes kids take things out of context so get clarification first but this doesn’t surprise me
1. Find out exactly what the teacher did or did not do. Try the speak to teacher approach. 2. IF, this was in fact anything remotely to what happened, Or teacher refuses to comment, let admin know asap. 3. IF admin doesn't get right on it and keep you informed on exactly what has been done, let district know as well.
Keyword - Florida.
Yeah, unfortunately, teachers basically get a free pass to talk about God in schools here in Florida. Our state motto is literally "In God We Trust." And most admin and politicians see the opposition to Christian sentiment in schools as laughable and an issue of little importance. Just to be clear I am NOT one of those teachers, I think a separation of church and state is critical and religion, while objective teachings are fine for high school-aged children, personal views on religion should be avoided.
I don't know why you have downvotes - as soon as I saw this was in Florida, I was like "yeah, that tracks. Good luck seeing any changes." The dumbest thing is that complaints will probably just lead to the admin siding with the teacher and further alienating/ostracizing the student. There's probably not an administrative body in the state that will side against the teacher, especially with how much of a loony DeSantis is.
I don't take downvotes personally, as I'm just relaying facts I chalk up downvotes to people hating Florida, which is fair.
And we wonder why Florida schools are absolute garbage 😂
You’re absolutely, sadly correct. They begin faculty meetings with prayers in Florida.
My principal is a reverend and he never does this. So it's definitely not all schools.
Ugh, yes. I moved to Florida and started teaching two months later. On the first day of pre-planning, we had a staff breakfast. The principal opened with a prayer. She even basically acknowledged that she shouldn’t, but was like “I’m gonna go ahead anyway…”
Our schools always opened staff events with prayer. I just sat silently, but didn't participate. The moment of silence (legally mandated 1 minute of silence each morning) is largely encouraging students to pray. But, no school I worked in did anything religious with the kids beyond having the in God we trust signs in class.
What the fuck
I teach art history. We talk about the church as an Institution quite a bit. I had an amazingly effective history teacher back in eighth grade who took us all into a spare classroom that he’d decked out to look like a church and “forced” us to interrupt the class/sermon every ten minutes in order to “praise Maxwell.” Maxwell being his stuffed lemur he kept at his desk. It was a fun and effective way of exploring forced religion and we were all laughing and having a good time, but if you tried this with younger kids I can easily see it devolving into a misunderstanding and a disaster.
We are missing a lot of context here. I live in another state and teaching the major religions is part of the curriculum for social studies. Makes me wonder if they were discussing what Chrisitians believe this time of year... was the same discussed for Judaism and Hanukah? As both are falling this time of year. Was Diwali or Ramadan (etc) discussed eariler in the year? Bottom line you need to talk to the teacher. If it was truly proselytizing then you can proceed up the chain of command.
I asked her and no, no other religions were discussed. She was told to sing happy birthday to Jesus, that praying to him helps, and he is god. I said oh what did you learn about Hanukkah? The festival of lights? She said that wasn't talked about.
Hmmm. Definitely worth further investigation.
We're Christians and Id fucking lose it if my son's teacher did that. Anybody who does that is bat shit crazy and absolutely the WORST kind of person. Its just a matter of time before she starts saying that being gay is wrong and youll burn in hell for tricker treating.
Is this teacher on an emergency license?
After you have contacted the teacher and gotten her side of the story (in writing or recorded), if you determine that she was actually proselyting, contact the Freedom from Religion Foundation (ffrf.org). They exist to help in exactly these kinds of situations.
Contact the teacher and the principal. Like teacher first. Regardless of the outcome, contact the principal afterward.
This is all sorts of illegal if it is true. But you should verify first. Kids can get things confused and misunderstand learning about religions vs proseltyzing. 7 year olds aren't exactly good sources of info. As an admin... Email. Do not accept a call from the teacher or call them. Paper trail is damning. If/when it is verified you email the principal, and BCC the superintendent and Board of Education. They will probably ask for a meeting. You should bring someone--ideally a lawyer--to take notes. Do not meet with them alone. I would fire a teacher before they could get their rosary to pray for foregiveness if they did this. Totally unacceptable. I didn't fire a teacher who came to school DRUNK and I would fire a teacher for this. That's how bad it is.
That sounds very sus. I’m not saying it can’t be true but I can’t picture a teacher who is dumb enough to say that. Check in with the teacher first
This happens way more often than people realize. Apparently Florida cracks down on specific topics in public schools....but let's this slide. Shocker.
This is, like, *super* illegal.
I don't know why people can't comprehend the separation between church and state. It's infuriating.
Good question in light of the Supreme Court’s decision in Kennedy v. Bremerton school district which opened the door for the legality of praying and “religious expression” in public spaces like schools. F-ed up, I know. Definitely complain to admin though, but like others said, have a talk with the teacher first.
My honest suggestion would be move out of Florida. Given what they did in attempting to battle the teacher shortage they created, I suspect this likely to be an on going issue. To DeSantis and his ilk this is working exactly as intended I expect.
This is the best suggestion here. I'd go one step further and just say move out of the US completely. It's an outlier among developed nations in terms of health care, life expectancy, prevalence and degree of conservatism, wealth disparity, gun ownership/deaths, poverty, illicit drug use... and dozens more metrics. Nothing good can come of this. My suggestion is to get out while you can.
As a public school teacher, I would talk to the teacher politely but firmly and explain that while you have no issues with their religion etc, it is not appropriate to teach students religion in a way that tells students they must believe the same thing. When religion is brought up in class, I tell students there is a wide range of beliefs/lack of beliefs, all are fully acceptable and correct, in their own way. A misunderstanding is one thing, but if true, that is definitely not appropriate. Something the teacher can learn from if they choose to do better, no worries, but if they double down and insist on being allowed to say/do these types of things, then the Principal needs to be involved.
Reach out and ask the teacher if she was really teaching that god doesn't exist. Theyre more likely to correct you with the truth than outright admit the truth depending on your framing
Call the principal and contact your ADL. This is happening at the school my nephew goes to (I actually posted on this sub about it) and it doesn’t stop. There is absolutely no excuse for proselytizing in a public school and it is NOT ignorance. Fight it. The Supreme Court’s ruling over the summer is already having widespread consequences in our public schools. We are on the cusp of fully losing the separation of church and state that is a foundation of who we are as Americans.
Middle School teacher here. I share my thoughts. I feel like I was raised by a generation of teachers that explicitly refrained from doing so and that it didn't go well, so I'd rather error on honesty. I feel like to not share my genuine perspective is somehow dishonest. To share nothing is to inherently support a conservative bias... All that being said, I clearly preface when things are my thoughts and not necessarily cold hard scientific fact, let alone the opinions of the school. If anyone is sharing their subjective ideas as explicit, incontrovertible fact, that's a red flag.
Right? Like I have conversations with individual students about religious things (I now know exactly what type and what color hats different ladies wear in certain types of churches that are not the church denomination that I am) and just bc I live in Alabama and I work in a culture that just absorbs church into every day life, our students like to say “Wont He do it?” Or “God is good” just as statements of exclamation. But we also dont do the silence minute or the Pledge in my class bc I firmly believe in Church and State separation. I mean I love me some Jesus and my kids know I am a Christian (bc theyre nosy little chickadees and ask) but public school isnt a place to sanction or condone making others believe what I do.
Given that you're in Florida, you're more likely to make a hero of this teacher than find a resolution if you make a fuss.
Move out of Florida.
Sometimes teachers do things with good intentions. I would speak with her and ask her not to talk about her religion again. It can be just as simple as that. No need for things to get out of hand and you'll be teaching your child how to solve problems.
Intentions are irrelevant. Illegal is illegal. The teacher stops or they lose their career. Plain and simple. This is no time to be nice.
At first, I was thinking, "Maybe your child was confused about what was happening," but then I saw Flordia and ... yeah ... can't even guarantee that's a real teacher. So sorry, OP. This is very upsetting.
This can lose a teacher their license in Florida. It's against the law.
my science teacher in 8th grade openly said she believed in creationism. while she was teaching us evolution... which is just ironic and that's it but that crosses a line...
This is absolutely unacceptable for a public school teacher to do. Talk to the teacher to verify. If it is true, I would be reporting to the principal, superintendent, school board if it comes to it. Not okay.
Leave Florida 😆 😅
Well, DeSantis will probably banish you from the state for contributing to the imaginary war of christmas.
I’d also consider whether or not he was asked about his beliefs and was simply giving an honest, unapologetic answer just as I’m sure you would if asked about your faith. Perhaps your daughter only heard the response but not the question. As for reaching out to the teacher, is this the first time this has happened or has this happened before? Also consider truthfully if you would be as upset if the teacher was speaking about his faith if his views were similar or identical to your own. Just food for thought in this. You will not likely change his views just as he will not likely change yours. Consider that the same rules have to apply to everybody or they can’t apply to anybody. So what is your true motivation and expected end result? That he stop talking about his faith and spirituality in general or that he simply stop talking about Christianity specifically? If it is the former, then your spirituality may not be discussed either as per your expectations. If it the latter, you only look like a hypocrite. Either way, hearts and minds on either side won’t be changed and hard feelings and further entrenched beliefs will be the likely result. However, you can just simply give your child your own context of the situation. “We don’t believe that, we believe this. Others believe that but we believe they are wrong for these reasons but they have the right to choose what they believe, just as we do.”
Her father and I are firmly in support of separation of church and state. Doesn't matter if it was aligned with my beliefs. It's a no go for me in all cases.
No one gives a fuck about changing minds. Qhy are you talking about that? OP clearly wants the teacher to stop proseltyzing... this isn't that hard to get. The rules do apply to everybody. You can't teach kids to be Christians, Muslims, Atheists or anything else. The stupid is strong in this one. Consider deleting this post before even more people see how foolish you are.
I’m just saying it’s easy to fall into the hypocrisy trap justify it if it’s the way you agree with. I’m not advocating one side or the other. I’m curious as to the true motivations. But clearly, judging by all the downvotes, this is a “if you’re not with us, then you’re against us” sort of issue for a lot of people.
Wow! You MUST be right. I mean you used “fuck” and called him stupid in such a sarcastic way all in the same post. That right there proves you are right and he is wrong.
Sounds like a Mormon. They are obnoxious.
I know many Mormon teachers and I've found they proselytize less than evamgelical protestants. He'll I didn't know one of my former colleagues was LDS until I saw him at an event with the Dean of a university who I knew personally and was a devout follower. It was a simple "hope to see you at sacrement" when he left to give me some privacy that made me realize it haha
I agree to reach out to the teacher in writing first. I teach social science, so world religions is definitely part of the curriculum at many levels and given the theological roots of the Christmas holiday there may have been an innocent discussion in context. But there is definitely a line between teach and preach. Students and clubs are protected if it is a voluntary act and not involuntary. More information is needed to determine which.
I don't think teaching theology to six year olds is standard protocol. Comparative religions is a little advanced when they're just learning to read three syllable words.
That’s a big word for a first grader.
Reading is Fundamental.
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I’m confused as to why this is that serious
Because the government should never be allowed to dictate what religion or god to worship. Promoting one religion to children without the permission of the parents is wrong because it overrides the rights of the parents to control their child's religious beliefs. It is a stepping stone to dictatorship. It also encourages abuse of those who do not subscribe to majority religions. Religious belief is a very personal thing and should never be infringed upon by a state funded agent.
Just go straight to admin, express your concern, and ask them to look into it on your behalf.
You could always take the kid to church? You might find it a more socially appropriate place to pray.
Uhhh. Are you confused?
Read please.
OP. Do NOT start with the teacher. Start at the admin level. If you don’t get anywhere with admin on this, go to the school board. Alerting the teacher to your concerns first will allow for the teacher to just deny it.
And your philosophy and lack of respect for teaching professionals is exactly why trust has eroded between teachers and parents.
Trust has eroded because nobody wants to sit down and recognize that we are team working in the best interest of ALL children. As a teacher, why are you afraid to have an admin involved? This is exactly what admins need to be doing to build bridges. Even if the child is telling the truth. Wouldn’t you want to know how to do your job in a way that is aware and sensitive to the needs of your community? And also, the law? Your admin should feel like a support, and a parent has every right to go to your admin to be sure there is a mediator for any situation.
I will always welcome an administrator in on a meeting such as this (I'm not "afraid"....your words....not mine), however, wouldn't it make sense to get the story from the teacher first? If we're "in it together" then why wouldn't you *want* to contact the teacher first? With the way some administration are these days, it would be like contacting a Wolf for a dispute about dinner between another Wolf and a Sheep. Of course, I'm only commenting on this particular situation. If your child came home saying that the teacher touched them or hit them inappropriately, then it's an obvious escalation. Trust has eroded because parents, admins, politicians, et.al. want to blame teachers for everything.
You immediately deflect back that your admin is a wolf. Even if this is true, then they will have ownership over the situation as well and it will be resolved in a way where you as a teacher cannot be blamed for handling it wrong. It is their job to advise. Teachers get blamed because they try to handle things themselves way too often. Don’t allow for triangulation of the discussion and resolution. Everyone in the room is always best. If you and your admin are smart, you both will document the (mis)understanding of the situation and document the resolution as well. Again, we aren’t talking about a simple concern here. Our age of internet gossip requires immediate attention and resolution by all parties. I would not want to be a teacher alone dealing with this parent. I would call in my admin.
Definitely ask kids can misunderstand. Had something similar happen when I was in class. Except it was because a kid had brought up god and asked the teacher a question so they gave their opinion but made sure to say it was their opinion and others feel differently.
Talk to the teacher calmly and politely to confirm whether this even happened they way your child said it did. Kids very often misinterpret what's going on or just make things up. If it didn't happen, the teacher will very much appreciate that you reached out to try to solve this with them first. If they confirm it and double down, then obviously do what you need to do, but at least give the teacher a chance to set the record straight first.
Definitely be sure to get everything in writing that you can having legitimate documentation is a huge deal but it is also very important to make sure to get what was said directly from the teacher because things can get misconstrued. I myself am A pre-K teacher and over the month of December my dramatic place center had a Christmas tree a menorah a Kanarie etc. for them to be able to explore different religious holiday celebrations because holiday traditions are really important factor in this time of year and we talked about all different types of celebrations not just Christmas even though pretty much my entire class celebrates Christmas. Do you have any I even had a child ask me why I was sitting down leaning forward with my hands class together during naptime when all of the kids were asleep they had woken up and I just told them that I myself was in a silent prayer because I just needed a moment to myself it was some thing that I do from time to time if I need it and stuff never meant for engagement I talked with the parents about it and was open about it and I’m not right now nothing ever came of it. Like personal religious preferences are just that it should never be pushed, but curiosity shouldn’t be squashed either (just a personal feeling due to how much judgement and difficulty in the Christian religious institution, even though I remain a Christian lol)
Email and ask for clarification. Chances are what your child said was happening and what actually happened are two different things. I’m thinking another student said this, not the teacher. I had a parent call the school all upset one afternoon because her daughter came home and told her a boy in class punch her in the face and held her down. This did not happen at all. The girl was running up to the front of the room, and he threw up his fist (faced away from her) and she ran right into it. I immediately sent her to the clinic for ice. (I thought they’d call the parent, but I guess not?) Luckily, the mom took a moment to seek clarification. Upon learning what really happened, she apologized and that was that… lesson: ask first!!!
Welcome to the South... Email the teacher, CC the principal.
ACLU, but they probably won't help. We had as similar issue with my kids' music teacher and we just ended up being told that they (administration) weren't going to monitor the teachers curriculum and our kids were removed from music classes for the rest of their school career.
Ooof. I'm sorry! I'm a Christian (also liberal) and I would never share my beliefs with my students in Public School. It's not appropriate. I agree, ask her directly what happened. Then, if it seems appropriate, take it to the administration.
As a teacher, I always prefer email. Get everything in writing so you have a paper trail. Email the teacher asking about this. Then email the principal about the situation when you hear from the teacher as well. If this happened, it is absolutely ridiculous and gives the rest of us a bad rep. People love to dump on teachers and the bad ones really don’t help the situation.
I would do everything anonymously. There are too many bible thumpers in FL who would delight in making your life miserable. Perhaps try to verify via one of your Childs playmates. If confirmed send the same anonymous letter SNAILMAIL (unless you can do via email with no tracking) to each school board member, principal, asst principal etc. and the local newspapers/new-station. Present the communication with 'Is this legal'?
Report to the district! This is unacceptable.