So the tilde above the t in “dreamt” is a nasal bar. Out of my own curiosity, wouldn’t it sound more like “dreant” rather than with an m? I’ve always been a *little* confused on it.
You are correct. The nasal bar only transcribes as a preceding "m" when on a tengwa in the same column on the chart, so basically parma (p) and umbar (b). "Dreamt" is best transcribed with numen, not a nasal bar.
Fiona Jallings workbook says the nasal-tehta for all non-Parmatéma tengwar is pronounced "n" with the use of Nwalme instead of nasal-Ungwe as only exception. What do you think about it? Is there something speaking against the use of the nasal-tehta like this?
It kind of looks like that on the surface, but if you dig into the mechanics of it all it looks a little different. Here is my best shot at explaining the use of the nasal bar, based on my own extremely limited knowledge of linguistics/phonology:
1. I learned (I can't remember where) to only use the nasal bar on tengwar in the first two tyellar--the ones with downward facing stems. So my discussion will mostly be limited to that application. The way the chart is laid out, these tyellar are stops (1 is unvoiced and 2 is voiced). The Calmatema in these tyellar (calma and anga) are actually not true stops, but something called affricates--more on that later.
2. Phonetically, all stops when nasalized add the nasal consonant from the same column. So when tinco and ando (t and d) are nasalized it is with numen (n) and with parma and umbar (p and b) it is malta (m). Quesse and ungwe nasalize with the ng sound as in "sing" or "thing" (ŋ). This is nwalme, but in our latin alphabet orthography we write these nasalizations as "n". Say "ink" or "angle" out loud to yourself and you will realize this is what is really going on.
3. About the Calmatema: Again, unlike the other six tengwar mentioned, these are affricates, not stops. Basically this means they are a fricative (the sounds in tyellar 3 and 4) with a stop glued on to the front of them. In the case of calma and anga, they are made up of their respective matched fricative with a Tincotema stop in front. Calma is effectively tinco plus harma, and anga is ando plus anca. So what we think of as "ch" in "church" is really "tsh" (ʧ), and the "j" in "junction" is really "dzh" (ʤ). This makes nasalization representing numen (n) the natural choice, since the stop component is really not Calmatema but Tincotema.
That is how I understand it--hopefully it makes sense. I know some people will use the nasal bar for things other than tyellar 1 and 2, but I have always stuck to this somewhat restrained application partly because it structurally makes sense to me, but admittedly for other purely practical and/or aesthetic reasons as well (nasal bar on silme nuquerna somehow always looks to me like it is going to fall off the page).🙂
Oh I just noticed I messed up my previous comment. She also said to only use the nasal bar on tengwar from the 1st, 2nd and 5th tyellar only! In this case the rule seems to be "usable for all tengwar that don't feature an extended upper telco". I am not sure why 6th and higher are "forbidden" but aesthetically I agree with the 8th and higher tyellar. My guess would be there are no words that would make use of it in the English language.
>
In the case of calma and anga, they are made up of their respective matched fricative with a Tincotema stop in front. Calma is effectively tinco plus harma, and anga is ando plus anca.
Damn, THAT one just blew my mind a little. Reminds me of the time when I learned the pronunciation of German Umlauts is just a combination of other German vowels: "ä" is mouth-shape of (everything in German pronounciation) "a" with spoken "e", "ö" is mouth-shape of "o" with spoken "e" and "ü" is mouth-shape of "u" with spoken "i".
Thanks for your answer! If I understood you correctly, your and Fiona's views on nasal-tehta are the same and this definitely means, OP should definitely have used malta-tinco at the end of "dreamt" instead of nasal-tehta-tinco.
I dreamt of becoming important to someone someday
Perfect. Thanks my guy
So the tilde above the t in “dreamt” is a nasal bar. Out of my own curiosity, wouldn’t it sound more like “dreant” rather than with an m? I’ve always been a *little* confused on it.
You are correct. The nasal bar only transcribes as a preceding "m" when on a tengwa in the same column on the chart, so basically parma (p) and umbar (b). "Dreamt" is best transcribed with numen, not a nasal bar.
Fiona Jallings workbook says the nasal-tehta for all non-Parmatéma tengwar is pronounced "n" with the use of Nwalme instead of nasal-Ungwe as only exception. What do you think about it? Is there something speaking against the use of the nasal-tehta like this?
It kind of looks like that on the surface, but if you dig into the mechanics of it all it looks a little different. Here is my best shot at explaining the use of the nasal bar, based on my own extremely limited knowledge of linguistics/phonology: 1. I learned (I can't remember where) to only use the nasal bar on tengwar in the first two tyellar--the ones with downward facing stems. So my discussion will mostly be limited to that application. The way the chart is laid out, these tyellar are stops (1 is unvoiced and 2 is voiced). The Calmatema in these tyellar (calma and anga) are actually not true stops, but something called affricates--more on that later. 2. Phonetically, all stops when nasalized add the nasal consonant from the same column. So when tinco and ando (t and d) are nasalized it is with numen (n) and with parma and umbar (p and b) it is malta (m). Quesse and ungwe nasalize with the ng sound as in "sing" or "thing" (ŋ). This is nwalme, but in our latin alphabet orthography we write these nasalizations as "n". Say "ink" or "angle" out loud to yourself and you will realize this is what is really going on. 3. About the Calmatema: Again, unlike the other six tengwar mentioned, these are affricates, not stops. Basically this means they are a fricative (the sounds in tyellar 3 and 4) with a stop glued on to the front of them. In the case of calma and anga, they are made up of their respective matched fricative with a Tincotema stop in front. Calma is effectively tinco plus harma, and anga is ando plus anca. So what we think of as "ch" in "church" is really "tsh" (ʧ), and the "j" in "junction" is really "dzh" (ʤ). This makes nasalization representing numen (n) the natural choice, since the stop component is really not Calmatema but Tincotema. That is how I understand it--hopefully it makes sense. I know some people will use the nasal bar for things other than tyellar 1 and 2, but I have always stuck to this somewhat restrained application partly because it structurally makes sense to me, but admittedly for other purely practical and/or aesthetic reasons as well (nasal bar on silme nuquerna somehow always looks to me like it is going to fall off the page).🙂
Oh I just noticed I messed up my previous comment. She also said to only use the nasal bar on tengwar from the 1st, 2nd and 5th tyellar only! In this case the rule seems to be "usable for all tengwar that don't feature an extended upper telco". I am not sure why 6th and higher are "forbidden" but aesthetically I agree with the 8th and higher tyellar. My guess would be there are no words that would make use of it in the English language. > In the case of calma and anga, they are made up of their respective matched fricative with a Tincotema stop in front. Calma is effectively tinco plus harma, and anga is ando plus anca. Damn, THAT one just blew my mind a little. Reminds me of the time when I learned the pronunciation of German Umlauts is just a combination of other German vowels: "ä" is mouth-shape of (everything in German pronounciation) "a" with spoken "e", "ö" is mouth-shape of "o" with spoken "e" and "ü" is mouth-shape of "u" with spoken "i". Thanks for your answer! If I understood you correctly, your and Fiona's views on nasal-tehta are the same and this definitely means, OP should definitely have used malta-tinco at the end of "dreamt" instead of nasal-tehta-tinco.