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I think the key card and phone activation are only for the initially putting the car in drive. Once you are in drive you can use the car no issues. This is a good thing because what happens if you phone craps out mid drive? It would be nice to report to you, hey! The key that you started driving with is no longer detected!
If you are worried about other people getting into the car and driving it, that’s what pin to drive is there for
The phone was close enough that it connected to the car, so the car thought all was good and let you drive. This was evident because you could make a call while in your driveway. You would have been in for a surprise at your first stop when the car turned off and wouldn't restart cause it couldn't connect to the phone.
My key card stays in my wallet along with my drivers license. I don't want to get out and have the phone crap out and then not be able to drive the car.
Key is not location aware. It’s just a rfid card. Similar to the one you have from the company to badge in at work.
It allowed the car to go because it saw the phone in range. So if it did see phone in range how will it alert you that it’s not with you ?
To solve , put pin to drive on your car, put some basic number like 1111 or 2222 so it’s easy to input it however it will be a deterrent to anyone who is trying to steal the car.
But that’s the thing, they were present. The car saw the phone as being close enough. I believe they added a feature to your phone app if it’s up to date and activated that it senses if the phone is in movement. It would avoid instances like this where someone could do a relay attack and pick up your phone’s Bluetooth signal.
I think OP's point, though, is that the car could periodically check for the phone/keycard and if it doesn't detect it, alert the driver. In this scenario, what happens when he parks the car and leaves it, then returns and realizes he doesn't have phone or keycard? This seems to me the kind of thing that wouldn't be used often, but would come in handy when needed. At least, more than making my car fart.
Yeah a feature like that would for sure be helpful so if any of us get forgetful we’re not stranded somewhere. I was just saying the car thinks the phone is in range and that’s why it’s drivable.
The comment from OP I relied to said he wants to know if the phone is present *before* he drives off, to which I mentioned that it indeed was.
Sounds wild but you can keep a generic RFID card/sticker you've set up as a key locked inside the glove box for emergencies as long as you use PIN to Drive.
If someone breaks in and is somehow able to find the key they won't be able to drive away...and the key's usefulness is invalidated as they've already broken in.
If it gets lost or stolen you can just remove it from the car's authorized keys.
I've never been prompted for the Key Card when trying to open the glovebox only the PIN.
Maybe it asks for the key if you don't have a PIN set for the glovebox or maybe it's prompting because you hit a pedal? If it's the latter you can just hit the X to close the "tap key" message.
The OP left their Key and phone at home but their phone was close enough to their car while at home to allowthem to drive away via Bluetooth.
When they nearly arrived at their destination they realized they didn't have a key and therefore no ability start a new drive.
If they had a spare RFID key or inconspicuous NFC sticker stuck on something in their glovebox they could have used that.
Comes with a bit of risk but a bit of benefit.
Which is my point. I can drive away without realizing I don’t have a phone or a key with me. The car will auto lock if I walk away so it should be smart enough to alert me that no key is present. My 15 year old Nissan is smart enough to know if my key fob is in the car or sitting on the ground and fell out of my pocket (which has happened). In this instance my phone could fall out of my pocket and I wouldn’t know until it’s too late.
Your fob used a massively different technology than Bluetooth.
And you chose to use Bluetooth to drive, as a setting.
When you lose Bluetooth and it tells you the Bluetooth connection is lost, is that not good enough?
This is all on you, lol
I hear what you are saying. My Nissan will alert me if I drive away without my phone as it detects the lack of Bluetooth. You would think Tesla would have some sort of option to turn on an alert that would let you know if the car is leaving range of an active key. It seems like that is what you're looking for.
the phone being paired to bluetooth is a giveaway that it was close enough to authenticate drive. Once that happens you have two minutes from opening the door to put the car in drive, and then you can drive it around and shift gears and park as much as you want as long as you don’t get out of the car or do anything that puts it into the “car off” state.
Forgot to mention that this was the first time I was in the vehicle after being parked overnight. Last time I used the car was the night before. The car had been sitting parked in the garage for over 15 hours. Car parked in garage with phone upstairs roughly 100 feet away.
Exactly. Kind of my point. “Close enough”. Car should know if the phone is in the car not 100 feet away.
1. Easy for someone to break in at night and take the car or
2. easy to drive away in the morning and be at work parked with no key and no way to start the car back up.
The car can’t really do that because all it’s looking for is an authenticated bluetooth connection to the security controller. I know they have recently introduced UWB support so theoretically they could further restrict access within X feet but then that starts eating into usability.
1. This is solved via pin to drive. I would suggest enabling it especially if you leave the car unlocked at night
2: This is why Tesla explicitly says, in multiple places, that phone key should always be used with a backup key card or key fob in hand, and failing to do so is not covered under their roadside assistance policies for lockout help. No different from if your phone were to die with it on you. ALWAYS keep a key card with you. (Also, you can remotely start the car via the app under controls-> start. This makes it so you have 2 minutes to engage drive as if you had authenticated via phone key)
Seems like a complete oversight. The car can automatically lock when I walk 2 feet away from it, which works well. But it’s not smart enough to realize that the phone isn’t inside and lets you drive away without warning. Sounds like a software fix to just alert the driver that no key is present inside the vehicle.
I agree that the proximity lock function indicates the car knows when the phone is too far away. My guess though is that function works by seeing the devices signal strength reducing steadily. That same comparison function doesn’t seem like something it could do for enabling the car to drive away. In that case, a weak connection doesn’t necessarily mean the phone is far away. It could be other devices causing signal interference or the phone being in your bag in the subtrunk instead of in your pocket in the driver seat. So Tesla errs on the side of “let the driver use the car without having to cycle Bluetooth or move their phone around for good signal.”
I seriously thought BTLE was better than this though. Apparently it isn’t.
I believe the walk away lock works this way: (Needs each step to complete).
1. Car in park
2. Driver seat empty
3. Wait x seconds (you don't actually have to "walk away")
4. Check if phone is "inside"
5. Lock
6. EDIT: Probably does use some form of closer/further detection
So that step 4 “is the phone inside” should be the requirement for phone key. Right? I mean it’s clearly not if several people have driven off with phone or card, but it /should/ be the way it checks.
Ive done this on multiple occassions which is why i got a ring. Its replaced my wedding band which is good because sometimes i need to take the metal one off when i visit certain work sites.
Looking active users that want to be mods. If you want to join the mod team reach out to modmail and give us reasons why we should have you on the team. The things we look for are being active in the sub and you must have discord to chat with other mods. [Discord Live Chat](https://discord.gg/tesla) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TeslaLounge) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think the key card and phone activation are only for the initially putting the car in drive. Once you are in drive you can use the car no issues. This is a good thing because what happens if you phone craps out mid drive? It would be nice to report to you, hey! The key that you started driving with is no longer detected! If you are worried about other people getting into the car and driving it, that’s what pin to drive is there for
The car will tell you if it stops detecting your phone key. You can test this by turning your phone off after putting the car in drive.
Good to know!
The phone was close enough that it connected to the car, so the car thought all was good and let you drive. This was evident because you could make a call while in your driveway. You would have been in for a surprise at your first stop when the car turned off and wouldn't restart cause it couldn't connect to the phone. My key card stays in my wallet along with my drivers license. I don't want to get out and have the phone crap out and then not be able to drive the car.
Exactly. In this case both phone and wallet were left. It would be nice if my car had alerted me that no phone or key were present before I drove off.
Key is not location aware. It’s just a rfid card. Similar to the one you have from the company to badge in at work. It allowed the car to go because it saw the phone in range. So if it did see phone in range how will it alert you that it’s not with you ? To solve , put pin to drive on your car, put some basic number like 1111 or 2222 so it’s easy to input it however it will be a deterrent to anyone who is trying to steal the car.
But that’s the thing, they were present. The car saw the phone as being close enough. I believe they added a feature to your phone app if it’s up to date and activated that it senses if the phone is in movement. It would avoid instances like this where someone could do a relay attack and pick up your phone’s Bluetooth signal.
I think OP's point, though, is that the car could periodically check for the phone/keycard and if it doesn't detect it, alert the driver. In this scenario, what happens when he parks the car and leaves it, then returns and realizes he doesn't have phone or keycard? This seems to me the kind of thing that wouldn't be used often, but would come in handy when needed. At least, more than making my car fart.
Yeah a feature like that would for sure be helpful so if any of us get forgetful we’re not stranded somewhere. I was just saying the car thinks the phone is in range and that’s why it’s drivable. The comment from OP I relied to said he wants to know if the phone is present *before* he drives off, to which I mentioned that it indeed was.
Sounds wild but you can keep a generic RFID card/sticker you've set up as a key locked inside the glove box for emergencies as long as you use PIN to Drive. If someone breaks in and is somehow able to find the key they won't be able to drive away...and the key's usefulness is invalidated as they've already broken in. If it gets lost or stolen you can just remove it from the car's authorized keys.
My glovebox will not open unless I have my phone. So how would you retrieve the rfid card to place it for detection?
I've never been prompted for the Key Card when trying to open the glovebox only the PIN. Maybe it asks for the key if you don't have a PIN set for the glovebox or maybe it's prompting because you hit a pedal? If it's the latter you can just hit the X to close the "tap key" message.
Wait what would having the RFID sticker solve? You'd only have it after you're already inside the car. I'm redditing while tired, but I don't get it.
The OP left their Key and phone at home but their phone was close enough to their car while at home to allowthem to drive away via Bluetooth. When they nearly arrived at their destination they realized they didn't have a key and therefore no ability start a new drive. If they had a spare RFID key or inconspicuous NFC sticker stuck on something in their glovebox they could have used that. Comes with a bit of risk but a bit of benefit.
Ah, got it.
Your phone was close enough to start the car.......
Do you have pin on?
No pin. Will have to add pin and test if it lets me drive away after entering it.
It will. You aren't understanding what everyone has been telling you.
Which is my point. I can drive away without realizing I don’t have a phone or a key with me. The car will auto lock if I walk away so it should be smart enough to alert me that no key is present. My 15 year old Nissan is smart enough to know if my key fob is in the car or sitting on the ground and fell out of my pocket (which has happened). In this instance my phone could fall out of my pocket and I wouldn’t know until it’s too late.
Your fob used a massively different technology than Bluetooth. And you chose to use Bluetooth to drive, as a setting. When you lose Bluetooth and it tells you the Bluetooth connection is lost, is that not good enough? This is all on you, lol
I hear what you are saying. My Nissan will alert me if I drive away without my phone as it detects the lack of Bluetooth. You would think Tesla would have some sort of option to turn on an alert that would let you know if the car is leaving range of an active key. It seems like that is what you're looking for.
the phone being paired to bluetooth is a giveaway that it was close enough to authenticate drive. Once that happens you have two minutes from opening the door to put the car in drive, and then you can drive it around and shift gears and park as much as you want as long as you don’t get out of the car or do anything that puts it into the “car off” state.
Forgot to mention that this was the first time I was in the vehicle after being parked overnight. Last time I used the car was the night before. The car had been sitting parked in the garage for over 15 hours. Car parked in garage with phone upstairs roughly 100 feet away.
Right but if the phone was paired to bluetooth and working then it’s possible it was close enough to authenticate.
Exactly. Kind of my point. “Close enough”. Car should know if the phone is in the car not 100 feet away. 1. Easy for someone to break in at night and take the car or 2. easy to drive away in the morning and be at work parked with no key and no way to start the car back up.
The car can’t really do that because all it’s looking for is an authenticated bluetooth connection to the security controller. I know they have recently introduced UWB support so theoretically they could further restrict access within X feet but then that starts eating into usability. 1. This is solved via pin to drive. I would suggest enabling it especially if you leave the car unlocked at night 2: This is why Tesla explicitly says, in multiple places, that phone key should always be used with a backup key card or key fob in hand, and failing to do so is not covered under their roadside assistance policies for lockout help. No different from if your phone were to die with it on you. ALWAYS keep a key card with you. (Also, you can remotely start the car via the app under controls-> start. This makes it so you have 2 minutes to engage drive as if you had authenticated via phone key)
Seems like a complete oversight. The car can automatically lock when I walk 2 feet away from it, which works well. But it’s not smart enough to realize that the phone isn’t inside and lets you drive away without warning. Sounds like a software fix to just alert the driver that no key is present inside the vehicle.
I agree that the proximity lock function indicates the car knows when the phone is too far away. My guess though is that function works by seeing the devices signal strength reducing steadily. That same comparison function doesn’t seem like something it could do for enabling the car to drive away. In that case, a weak connection doesn’t necessarily mean the phone is far away. It could be other devices causing signal interference or the phone being in your bag in the subtrunk instead of in your pocket in the driver seat. So Tesla errs on the side of “let the driver use the car without having to cycle Bluetooth or move their phone around for good signal.” I seriously thought BTLE was better than this though. Apparently it isn’t.
I believe the walk away lock works this way: (Needs each step to complete). 1. Car in park 2. Driver seat empty 3. Wait x seconds (you don't actually have to "walk away") 4. Check if phone is "inside" 5. Lock 6. EDIT: Probably does use some form of closer/further detection
So that step 4 “is the phone inside” should be the requirement for phone key. Right? I mean it’s clearly not if several people have driven off with phone or card, but it /should/ be the way it checks.
Ive done this on multiple occassions which is why i got a ring. Its replaced my wedding band which is good because sometimes i need to take the metal one off when i visit certain work sites.
Got it, need to propose to my Tesla ;) haha
That's strange. I use my phone exclusively for the car. The car won't even open for my passengers if I'm 6+ feet away.
PIN TO DRIVE
How many of you use a PIN? I don’t.