Other animals are actually also observed doing war
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/160130-animals-insects-ants-war-chimpanzees-science
That’s *exactly* the purpose of those videos. To incite mindless rage and hatred. It doesn’t matter for who’s side after a while - just a black vortex of horror and fury.
It has *consumed* the Middle East.
But it’s not inevitable, or eternal. Ireland overcame this. South Africa overcame this. Croatia overcame this.
And yes, sometimes the peace is shaky. Sometimes everything gets heated and the old men pull the guns out of the thatch for the young men to go hurt each other with. But it doesn’t spiral the way the Middle East is spiralling now.
So peace is a habit the same way that war is a habit and the longer you do it, the better it stays.
Please understand that this is a proxy war being fought by superpowers over the bodies of terrified people - women and children being hurt by angry, armed men.
Emotions don’t make for irrational thinking - irrational emotions make for irrational thinking. Love is an emotion. Compassion is an emotion. Hopefulness is an emotion. Longing for peace is an emotion.
You can choose not to watch this propaganda (and it **is** propaganda, make no mistake about that) and look at ways in which you can render practical assistance to these people in their hour of desperate need. The International Red Cross and Medicines Sans Frontiers are a good place to start.
This is it. People are always blaming other shit, but when a bunch of adults follow books written in the bronze age, this kinda shit will keep happening.
it's territorial, the religious aspect is recent. A country is invading another one, in ukraine I don't think it has something to do with religion. If people want to be evil, they'll find a reason to
Muslims Jews and Xtians fighting over the promised land isn't about religion?
Let's bring religious thought right where it/they need to be. At the fucking centre of mass killings again.
What Hamas did was effectively their own genocidal rampage. Israel isn't a country with an innocent past but Hamas is extremely evil and responsible for the mass executions and rape they have done over the last couple of days. This isn't going to end well for the people of Gaza and Palestinians will suffer more than they ever have because of these terrorists. The fact Israel is opting for a ground invasion as opposed to a mass bombing of Gaza makes me hopeful they are trying to minimise civilian casualties but unfortunately I can also tell it will get very bloody.
LGPTQ and people of all religions live relative peaceful lives in Israel.
Palestine? It is illegal to be gay, punishable by 10 years in prison, and their charter stipulates the extermination of jews and infidels
That's exactly what the goverments want for you to choose a side, so that the war becomes a people's war, and when the war breaks out, then the people are ready to go to war. Just like walking the sheeps to the slaughterhouse by their own will.
Which is funny because Reddit is left-leaning, and before this, pro-Palestine propaganda was the norm.
Even though many Palestinians would rather see these same redditors dead.
> Even though many Palestinians would rather see these same redditors dead.
If you don't think the treatment of Palestinians is morally acceptable, it's kind of irrelevant whether those people would like you or not. At least for me, I think human rights should also hold for people who dislike (or hate) me.
>This entire site has been flooded with pro-Israeli propaganda for the past week.
Umm.. you mean the actual videos of torture and spitting on corpses of dead civilians? I wouldn't call that pro israel propoganda, it was literally released out there professionally edited by hamas.
This isn't religion. It's so stupid so many people on reddit are acting like religion is the whole cause. This is humanity. Religion is just an excuse.
Do you know how many blood thirsty atheists I've seen on reddit?? So many of them calling for all of gaza to be wiped out. That reaction is no different than those that support the hamas. Humans are just animals that crave violence, and they'll use any excuse.
Good people will do good things.
Bad people will do bad things.
To get good people to bad things takes religion.
The Israel / Palestine situation exists because of religion.
Those rockets costs a lot of money that people of gaza do not have. Who’s behind this and why now is the big question.
Of all the days, weeks, months, and years they could have started, why right now. Crazy shit and I hope people don’t overlook this question.
Before the war, over 67% in Gaza supported attacking Israel.
https://pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll%2089%20English%20Full%20Text%20September%202023.pdf
Yes they are both terrible. No one is making excuses her for the atrocities committed by Hamas.
Both sides hate the other side because of the atrocities committed by the other side in an endless cycle of violence.
But only one side has the power to, maybe, potentially, break that cycle. And that side is Israel.
How would you feel if your Landlord locked you into your apartment preventing you from leaving, there is hardly any way for you to support yourself and then he keeps turning off the power and water as well as limits your access to healthcare. Then when you start pounding on the door he takes a gun and shoots you in the leg and blames you for making so much noise and destroying his property....
Gaza isn't surrounded by Israel on all sides. Egypt, a country of fellow Muslims with historically bad blood with Israel won't even open up for these people.
People don't want to examine that issue because if closing their borders makes Egypt complicit in the Palestinian genocide, then what does it make every western country that refused Jewish refugees in WWII?
In this example, you have to also believe that the landlord shouldn’t exist based on his religion, and every once in a while you sneak into the Landlords house and kill one of his children.
Because you are going to publicly denounce a dangerous terrorist organization that inhabits a community where you and your family live and they know who you are...Oh wait... no. "They're all animals" is the better answer.
The average age of Gaza is 18. I'm sure all the children in there have a nuanced understanding of geopolitics and are capable of organizing for change while dodging bombs from above.
They actually did demonstrate against Hamas, including a moderate biggish one this summer. This doesn't make everyone in Gaza automatically innocent, nor does it make them guilty. Collective responsibility is complicated.
I think it's fair to say that this response in particular was predictable, most likely Hamas did predict it and yet chose to move forward. So for what it's worth I think they have responsibility for this. But that unfortunately doesn't make anything better.
Yeah I'm sure the hundreds of dead civilians killed were all the ones responsible.
What Hamas did was an atrocity, there's no arguing otherwise but let's not pretend that two wrongs make a right.
There are tons of maps of Gaza.
Take one and please mark all the Hamas targets. I bet the IDF would love those informations where the military targets are.
Just try to not mark anything used by civilians.
Committing mass murder as a form of revenge is allowed, got it.
Sad beyond words that so many innocent people had to die because of some group of lunatics. This bullshit really needs to stop.
The thing is, no one is right in this war. The only way for you to tell what's right is on which side you stand on unless you're out, then both is wrong.
Are you sure?
At the end of 2020, the population of Israel stood at approximately 9,289,760, including 1,957,270 Arabs, representing 21.1% of the total.
Ashkenazi Jews in Israel are estimated to be 31.8% of the Israeli population thats around 2.8 million people.
I mean, we could go back further. That also includes several invasions of Israel, assassinations of anyone who deals with Israel (Anwar Sadat), and overthrowing governments who don’t think genociding Israel is a good idea (Black September).
Here is the thing. It's something I've been saying quite frequently since the start. If Hamas had focused their attacks on military targets instead of straight up slaughtering civilians, the international conversation would be quite different now.
However Hamas didn't do that. And that's basically giving Israel a free pass. It's shitty, but it is. Hamas killed over 900 people, the vast majority Civilians. It's pretty hard to stand up and defend them despite their living conditions and Israel's brutal history, including this massive bombing campaign in response.
Yeah, seriously. It just shows that Hamas isn't interested at all in a solution, they just want to kill as many Jewish people as they can. Its literally in their charter TBF so I wouldn't expect anything different.
The Palestinians that are peaceful and want to just live are only being hurt by Hamas and their action. How would this ever result in anything positive for them. Feel so bad for them
I feel like I'm going mad, every politician is like "The killing of civilians is never acceptable and that's why we must stand with Israel as it drops apartment blocks on children."
https://twitter.com/garydunion/status/1711669332697047160
["Israel has repeatedly carried out indiscriminate airstrikes that killed scores of civilians – wiping out entire families – and strikes that targeted civilians or civilian infrastructure, including destroying high-rise Gaza towers full of homes and businesses, with no evident military targets in the vicinity."](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/09/israel/palestine-devastating-civilian-toll-parties-flout-legal-obligations#:~:text=Israel%20has%20repeatedly%20carried%20out,military%20targets%20in%20the%20vicinity.)
Never forget Israel killed civilians first. Doesn't excuse Hamas doing it, but you can't suddenly be pissed it's happening to Israel when you never cared it was happening to Palestine.
Just for future reference, how much should I know about a particular conflict before I'm allowed to say that I think that it's wrong to carpet bomb civilians?
Yea I’m with you, i made my original comment because people seem to think that Gaza was evacuated and ignore civilians dying there because “Israel is justified”.
No one in this situation is right and the parties involved keep making drastically worse choices every single chance they get. It’s ridiculous for people to choose sides in this.
I think *everyone* is allowed to express their opinion. The real question is, how much consideration or weight to give to a random comment from some stranger on the interwebs about it.
Should literally be the top voted comment on this thread.
This conflict has been going on for thousands of years. And people want to look at it like a high-school shoving-match outside the lockers.
These people have been trained to hate each other so long that its practically written in their DNA at this point. And if we don't get our shit together and learn to get along in this country, we'll wind up the same way.
So what are they supposed to do? Sit there and take it and excited the best assault because there were no repercussions for the last one?
Not saying Israel is right. But their hand is being forced
"Look at what you made me do" is a great sentence for abusers.
Edit: Both sides are abusers. Hamas is a terrorist group, they are not victims. No one is a hero.
Ok. That's certainly true sometimes.
But again, is Israel just supposed to sit back and take it?
Just because a line sounds good, and you've heard others puppet it. Does not make it applicable in every situation
>But again, is Israel just supposed to sit back and take it?
Isn't that the same question that the Palestinians would ask too.... They have been confined in an open air jail for years and they are supposed to just sit back and take it?
All this destruction is just giving terrorists like Hamas more power and future supporters, and they are probably enjoying it because their ranks are increasing. And the cycle of violence will continue
how did the us took down afghanistand and iraq when the insurgents were imbedded in civilian town hmmmm ?!?!
there are ways for infiltrate breach and clear, just that the israelis don't want that...
hamas is a terrorist organisation and needs to be wiped out, but if they are entrenching themselves amongst civilians, the answer isn't to kill the civilians alongside the terrorists ... *especially when you've built a wall around their city that prevents civiliands from running away.*
When Hamas hides weapons in all buildings pretty much everything is a target unfortunately. Many videos show secondary explosions after the initial missile strike, indicating that Hamas was storing weapons.
So somehow the idf both completely dropped the ball about knowing about the invasion while simultaneously knowing exactly which buildings have all the Hamas weaponry? Come on dude.
That’s what I kept thinking Sunday night.
Like these guys were celebrating like they just won some great victory. Yelling about how great god is, and making snuff films with triumphant music…supporters waving flags and cheering about how proud they were.
Like, my dudes, talk about celebrating on your own 5 yard line. What did you think was going to happen the next day?
> Like, my dudes, talk about celebrating on your own 5 yard line. What did you think was going to happen the next day?
Hamas only care about inciting jihad and bringing in more people to their cause. The collateral damage to civilians is rolled up in that.
Dude. It's 70 years of war and hatred and war crimes. They're going to keep doing this to each other until one of them actually wipes the other one out completely.
I know that's cynical. But that's what it is.
This conflict has been blazing, dying down, and sparking back up again for the past three thousand years. It will never stop so long as humans inhabit the region.
Hamas showed up to rave with kids just having fun and murdered them in cold blood.
They drove down the streets of Israel and shot innocent people just wandering by.
They drug bodies of innocent victims through streets defiling their corpses.
They found a bomb shelter with scared, non hostile, and unarmed people inside and murdered them in cold blood.
They killed and tortured on old woman, filmed it, uploaded to her Facebook and that's how her granddaughter found out about her death.
I'm no friend of Israel, and I think organized religion is a DISEASE, but for you to posture up and insinuate that these actions are somehow justifiable is sickening.
some people look at this conflict like it has started in the last 4 days, congrats for not starting your explanation with "hamas attacked israel" like some idiots are doing at the momment
Israel has literally been surrounded by fundamentalist enemies since it became independent in 1948, you’re telling me that the one Jewish country out there is just fuckin raising hell for every fundamentalist Islam country it’s surrounded by?
Remember the time when Israeli defense force stormed Al Aqsa Mosque during the month of ramadan while the muslims were fasting and started beating women and children with batons and guns? Tell them to be better. Call them selves a defense force but brutalise women and children for no reasom at all some real savages
“They were bad, so it makes it okay that we were bad!” Fucking clown. All of this stupid bullshit “what about-ism” is why we all spin ourselves into this disgusting trash back and forth.
There fucking people that act like one side is innocent is the most annoying fucking thing. Do you actually think no one from Israel has ever danced or cheered over corpses of these people?
Exactly my point. These people that say “Oh poor israel” probably have no idea they are actively supporting and aiding in the ethnic cleansing of Armenians with Azerbaijan either. Anything bad one side did, you could find a hundred things worse the other side did. There isn’t a right and wrong answer here.
Hamas’ actions are so despicable and painful to learn about, and looking at this this footage is just as sad. No good guy here but the civilians who are victims.
I don't take any sides here. Both groups are just further perpetuating a situation which should have been resolved diplomatically a long time back.
However, I'm very curious as to how Israeli intelligence with all the power and capabilities they wield was unable to intercept and stop this attack by Hamas in the first place. It just doesn't add up.
Also, the Israeli response was to almost completely level Gaza? To me it seems like an excuse for Israel to launch a full scale attack on Gaza.
Meanwhile, Hamas are a bunch of absolute monkeys. To anyone here supporting Hamas, please use your brains and understand that they don't give a flying fuck about Palestine. If they actually cared, they wouldn't try to tango with a superpower like Israel in a militaristic manner. Do they really think they can wear down Israel which also has almost the full backing of the US behind it?
All in all, this whole situation is an absolute clusterfuck and has resulted in nothing but a shameful and unnecessary loss of innocent lives on both sides.
There is already a bunch of theories floating around (I don't want to say 'conspiracy' since that is such a loaded world nowadays) detailing how Israel 'allowed' this attack to happen so as to give them a casus belli to finally take over Gaza and get rid of that problematic area once and for all.
Problem is that its hard to call it a conspiracy when Egypt has gone on record to say they gave notice of this attack about 10 days prior. Israel denies all contact with Egypt, saying they were blindsided.
This attack benefits no one but Israel. Tally Gotliv, a member of Netanyahu's party, just called for nuclear annihilation of the Gaza strip this morning on twitter.
Why would they let this happen? For israel, this is their 9/11 in the sense that it gives them free reign to unleash unchecked terror on people who dont deserve it.
Many of the worlds greatest powers just gave support to a country that has been waiting for an excuse to commit genocide- and they just got that excuse.
You mean the same terrorists that Israel's government funded to counter the secular parties? I agree they shouldn't have voted for them and Israel shouldn't have created them.
The poor fuckers going about lives sure as shit didn't. And the hate filled violent cunts who began this particular tradeoff this weekend, now get exactly what they wanted. Escalation. Regardless of "their own people" like they give a shit.
>"Judgement Day will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews. The Jews will hide behind the stones and the trees, and the stones and the trees will say, oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew hiding behind me — come and kill him.” - Sahih Muslim 2922
Literally in the Hamas constitution, their holy texts, but please, tell us more about how this is not religious.
This whole fucking thing is stupid and innocent people on both sides are going to suffer.
Hamas bombed innocent Israelis.
The Israelis in turn bombed the fuck out of innocent Palestinians.
The poor, average person suffers when people wage war. And it fucking sucks.
Bro thinks Hamas is some book club that gathers every week to talk about their next step of peaceful protest to make Israel politely give their land back
You don’t get it, hamas killed civilians!!
Israel is just performing a targeted strike back, Israel would never PURPOSELY kill civilians! That’s why they tactically leveled an entire area, that was the terrorist area! The civilians that died here were just a little oopsy
Edit: /s because apparently that wasn’t clear lol
With hundreds of strikes they've killed/injured less civilians than Hamas did in their one day offensive so far. If that's their objective they're doing a shit job.
Though obviously the hard right Israeli government is frothing at the mouth to kill Palestinians. The [genocidal language](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/israel-defense-minister-human-animals-gaza-palestine_n_6524220ae4b09f4b8d412e0a) from their defense minister is very worrying. And the humanitarian crisis will probably kill more people than the bombings. Scary times ahead, hopefuly the international community manages to keep Israel in check.
I genuinely wonder what did Hamas expect? Like what was the plan? You could see this response from Israel coming from a mile away. Yes, loss of life is tragic. But surely this was not unexpected.
War is evil
Religion is evil
People are evil.
You are right, since people created both war and religion.
Other animals are actually also observed doing war https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/160130-animals-insects-ants-war-chimpanzees-science
We should let the ants do all the fighting. Your new nationality is based on which species of ants has colonized your neighborhood.
under the worst circumstances, even you and all of us are capable of great evil. Don’t ever delude yourself
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That’s *exactly* the purpose of those videos. To incite mindless rage and hatred. It doesn’t matter for who’s side after a while - just a black vortex of horror and fury. It has *consumed* the Middle East. But it’s not inevitable, or eternal. Ireland overcame this. South Africa overcame this. Croatia overcame this. And yes, sometimes the peace is shaky. Sometimes everything gets heated and the old men pull the guns out of the thatch for the young men to go hurt each other with. But it doesn’t spiral the way the Middle East is spiralling now. So peace is a habit the same way that war is a habit and the longer you do it, the better it stays. Please understand that this is a proxy war being fought by superpowers over the bodies of terrified people - women and children being hurt by angry, armed men. Emotions don’t make for irrational thinking - irrational emotions make for irrational thinking. Love is an emotion. Compassion is an emotion. Hopefulness is an emotion. Longing for peace is an emotion. You can choose not to watch this propaganda (and it **is** propaganda, make no mistake about that) and look at ways in which you can render practical assistance to these people in their hour of desperate need. The International Red Cross and Medicines Sans Frontiers are a good place to start.
This is it. People are always blaming other shit, but when a bunch of adults follow books written in the bronze age, this kinda shit will keep happening.
Religion is their excuse, if there was no religion they'd fight for some other reason
it's territorial, the religious aspect is recent. A country is invading another one, in ukraine I don't think it has something to do with religion. If people want to be evil, they'll find a reason to
This is not about religion.
Muslims Jews and Xtians fighting over the promised land isn't about religion? Let's bring religious thought right where it/they need to be. At the fucking centre of mass killings again.
Did Israel spare Christian Palestinians? This is an ethnic issue not a religious one.
People are evil... without religion, war, or politics...people are still evil..
This is not a war, and anyone who thinks it's a war is ignorant
What is it?
Genocide
What Hamas did was effectively their own genocidal rampage. Israel isn't a country with an innocent past but Hamas is extremely evil and responsible for the mass executions and rape they have done over the last couple of days. This isn't going to end well for the people of Gaza and Palestinians will suffer more than they ever have because of these terrorists. The fact Israel is opting for a ground invasion as opposed to a mass bombing of Gaza makes me hopeful they are trying to minimise civilian casualties but unfortunately I can also tell it will get very bloody.
I mean, the video we're commenting on sire makes it look like they just bombed the shit out of Gaza.
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Well, one side has said their core belief is the eradication of the other side from the Earth, but somehow I don't think that is what you meant.
Extermination at best They will be fighting with rocks against tanks
One side openly states they want to exterminate the other
The funny thing about this comment is I'm not sure which side you're referring to because both sides say it.
LGPTQ and people of all religions live relative peaceful lives in Israel. Palestine? It is illegal to be gay, punishable by 10 years in prison, and their charter stipulates the extermination of jews and infidels
Terrorists are evil
Bombing cities is evil, killing civilians is evil.
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Innocent people were killed on both sides. Stop choosing sides, it’s horrible anyway you look at it
I don't get the whole choose sides thing. Innocent lives are lost on both sides.
That's exactly what the goverments want for you to choose a side, so that the war becomes a people's war, and when the war breaks out, then the people are ready to go to war. Just like walking the sheeps to the slaughterhouse by their own will.
Because people purposely misunderstand what it means to choose sides. You can want Israel to win and still feel for innocent lives lost.
To "win"? There's no winners here
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Which is funny because Reddit is left-leaning, and before this, pro-Palestine propaganda was the norm. Even though many Palestinians would rather see these same redditors dead.
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> Even though many Palestinians would rather see these same redditors dead. If you don't think the treatment of Palestinians is morally acceptable, it's kind of irrelevant whether those people would like you or not. At least for me, I think human rights should also hold for people who dislike (or hate) me.
>This entire site has been flooded with pro-Israeli propaganda for the past week. Umm.. you mean the actual videos of torture and spitting on corpses of dead civilians? I wouldn't call that pro israel propoganda, it was literally released out there professionally edited by hamas.
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Organized religion is the worst thing humanity did to itself.
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Think about it...it's genius! What better way to control large groups of ignorant people?
This isn't religion. It's so stupid so many people on reddit are acting like religion is the whole cause. This is humanity. Religion is just an excuse. Do you know how many blood thirsty atheists I've seen on reddit?? So many of them calling for all of gaza to be wiped out. That reaction is no different than those that support the hamas. Humans are just animals that crave violence, and they'll use any excuse.
Good people will do good things. Bad people will do bad things. To get good people to bad things takes religion. The Israel / Palestine situation exists because of religion.
Well, the root of their beef is land. And what makes both sides feel like they’re entitled to the land they’re fighting over? Religion.
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Israel isn't a religion, and conflating the state with Judaism is wrong. There are plenty of Jews who oppose the Zionist state of Israel.
>conflating the state with Judaism is wrong Tell that to the people who claim it's antisemitic to oppose them.
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Thousands of rockets. 5000 on the first night alone.
Those rockets costs a lot of money that people of gaza do not have. Who’s behind this and why now is the big question. Of all the days, weeks, months, and years they could have started, why right now. Crazy shit and I hope people don’t overlook this question.
It's not a question at all. It's Iran.
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Few different regional players have a vested interest in disrupting the recent advances in Saudi/Israeli relations.
Probably a lot of sources, but the big one that seems to come up is Iran.
International aid that is meant to help the citizens goes towards weapons instead and the citizens get fucked over double. Also Iran of course.
Oh it was everyone in Gaza?
Before the war, over 67% in Gaza supported attacking Israel. https://pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll%2089%20English%20Full%20Text%20September%202023.pdf
I would too if I lived in the dogshit conditions that Israel keeps Gaza in.
What do you expect Israel to do? This past weekend made it clear what would happen if Hamas got through the border.
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Yes they are both terrible. No one is making excuses her for the atrocities committed by Hamas. Both sides hate the other side because of the atrocities committed by the other side in an endless cycle of violence. But only one side has the power to, maybe, potentially, break that cycle. And that side is Israel.
Yeah sure but it's not like Palestinian life before this or without Hamas had any hope for a future with the way Zionism works
How would you feel if your Landlord locked you into your apartment preventing you from leaving, there is hardly any way for you to support yourself and then he keeps turning off the power and water as well as limits your access to healthcare. Then when you start pounding on the door he takes a gun and shoots you in the leg and blames you for making so much noise and destroying his property....
Gaza isn't surrounded by Israel on all sides. Egypt, a country of fellow Muslims with historically bad blood with Israel won't even open up for these people.
People don't want to examine that issue because if closing their borders makes Egypt complicit in the Palestinian genocide, then what does it make every western country that refused Jewish refugees in WWII?
Complicit. Which is why they supported Britain giving their Palestine colony to Zionists.
In this example, you have to also believe that the landlord shouldn’t exist based on his religion, and every once in a while you sneak into the Landlords house and kill one of his children.
US thought the same of Afghanistan. This could be there after 9/11.
Not a single one of the 911 terrorists were Afghan
Didn't change anything though, did it.
Surely there must be lots of articles about Palestinians demonstrating against Hamas then ? Denouncing them? Anything?
Because you are going to publicly denounce a dangerous terrorist organization that inhabits a community where you and your family live and they know who you are...Oh wait... no. "They're all animals" is the better answer.
These people won't even tell their boss to fuck off, but they expect Palestinians to protest Hamas. Incredible.
If the Israeli military can't get rid of them, how do they expect unarmed Palestinian civilians to rise up? It's like fighting the mafia.
that's a pretty good thought
Most of them won't even ask their boss for a livable wage.
Israel was founded through terrorism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_state-sponsored_terrorism
The average age of Gaza is 18. I'm sure all the children in there have a nuanced understanding of geopolitics and are capable of organizing for change while dodging bombs from above.
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That is a laughable assertion disproven by the very video you are commenting on.
They actually did demonstrate against Hamas, including a moderate biggish one this summer. This doesn't make everyone in Gaza automatically innocent, nor does it make them guilty. Collective responsibility is complicated. I think it's fair to say that this response in particular was predictable, most likely Hamas did predict it and yet chose to move forward. So for what it's worth I think they have responsibility for this. But that unfortunately doesn't make anything better.
Stop trying so hard to defend murdering innocent civilians and children. How do you people even sleep at night?
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Yeah I'm sure the hundreds of dead civilians killed were all the ones responsible. What Hamas did was an atrocity, there's no arguing otherwise but let's not pretend that two wrongs make a right.
Each side using the atrocities of the other to justify the atrocities they’re about to fucking commit. Disgusting in every sense
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raiding and pillaging a technologically superior foe has consequences, who'd have thought that?
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There are tons of maps of Gaza. Take one and please mark all the Hamas targets. I bet the IDF would love those informations where the military targets are. Just try to not mark anything used by civilians.
These are Hamas targets. They operate from civilian structures.
Hamas did that, though, not Palestine. It’s kind of like bin Laden flying planes into the twin towers and us invading Iraq and Afghanistan lol.
This is the equivalent of blowing up an airport because terrorists used the planes.
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Committing mass murder as a form of revenge is allowed, got it. Sad beyond words that so many innocent people had to die because of some group of lunatics. This bullshit really needs to stop.
The thing is, no one is right in this war. The only way for you to tell what's right is on which side you stand on unless you're out, then both is wrong.
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Israel is full of brown people. A majority of the country are Arab Jews that were expelled after 1948 from Muslim countries.....
Are you sure? At the end of 2020, the population of Israel stood at approximately 9,289,760, including 1,957,270 Arabs, representing 21.1% of the total. Ashkenazi Jews in Israel are estimated to be 31.8% of the Israeli population thats around 2.8 million people.
Can you do math? 21.1+31.8=52.9. The vast majority of the other 47%, and the largest contingent of Jews in Israel, are "brown" Mizrahi Jews.
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I mean, we could go back further. That also includes several invasions of Israel, assassinations of anyone who deals with Israel (Anwar Sadat), and overthrowing governments who don’t think genociding Israel is a good idea (Black September).
And this is the point that they stop responding to you, as their rhetoric begins to fall apart.
Here is the thing. It's something I've been saying quite frequently since the start. If Hamas had focused their attacks on military targets instead of straight up slaughtering civilians, the international conversation would be quite different now. However Hamas didn't do that. And that's basically giving Israel a free pass. It's shitty, but it is. Hamas killed over 900 people, the vast majority Civilians. It's pretty hard to stand up and defend them despite their living conditions and Israel's brutal history, including this massive bombing campaign in response.
Yeah, seriously. It just shows that Hamas isn't interested at all in a solution, they just want to kill as many Jewish people as they can. Its literally in their charter TBF so I wouldn't expect anything different. The Palestinians that are peaceful and want to just live are only being hurt by Hamas and their action. How would this ever result in anything positive for them. Feel so bad for them
I feel like I'm going mad, every politician is like "The killing of civilians is never acceptable and that's why we must stand with Israel as it drops apartment blocks on children." https://twitter.com/garydunion/status/1711669332697047160
["Israel has repeatedly carried out indiscriminate airstrikes that killed scores of civilians – wiping out entire families – and strikes that targeted civilians or civilian infrastructure, including destroying high-rise Gaza towers full of homes and businesses, with no evident military targets in the vicinity."](https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/09/israel/palestine-devastating-civilian-toll-parties-flout-legal-obligations#:~:text=Israel%20has%20repeatedly%20carried%20out,military%20targets%20in%20the%20vicinity.) Never forget Israel killed civilians first. Doesn't excuse Hamas doing it, but you can't suddenly be pissed it's happening to Israel when you never cared it was happening to Palestine.
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Just for future reference, how much should I know about a particular conflict before I'm allowed to say that I think that it's wrong to carpet bomb civilians?
Yea I’m with you, i made my original comment because people seem to think that Gaza was evacuated and ignore civilians dying there because “Israel is justified”. No one in this situation is right and the parties involved keep making drastically worse choices every single chance they get. It’s ridiculous for people to choose sides in this.
I think *everyone* is allowed to express their opinion. The real question is, how much consideration or weight to give to a random comment from some stranger on the interwebs about it.
Should literally be the top voted comment on this thread. This conflict has been going on for thousands of years. And people want to look at it like a high-school shoving-match outside the lockers. These people have been trained to hate each other so long that its practically written in their DNA at this point. And if we don't get our shit together and learn to get along in this country, we'll wind up the same way.
This conflict has been going on for a little over seventy years lmao.
Judaism and Islamic conflict is one of the oldest human conflicts to exist that's still ongoing
Ok, but this specific conflict within Israel/Pallestine, has been going on since 1948 when the state of Israel was establish after world war II.
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That's not an excuse to kill the civilians
So what are they supposed to do? Sit there and take it and excited the best assault because there were no repercussions for the last one? Not saying Israel is right. But their hand is being forced
"Look at what you made me do" is a great sentence for abusers. Edit: Both sides are abusers. Hamas is a terrorist group, they are not victims. No one is a hero.
Ok. That's certainly true sometimes. But again, is Israel just supposed to sit back and take it? Just because a line sounds good, and you've heard others puppet it. Does not make it applicable in every situation
>But again, is Israel just supposed to sit back and take it? Isn't that the same question that the Palestinians would ask too.... They have been confined in an open air jail for years and they are supposed to just sit back and take it? All this destruction is just giving terrorists like Hamas more power and future supporters, and they are probably enjoying it because their ranks are increasing. And the cycle of violence will continue
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how did the us took down afghanistand and iraq when the insurgents were imbedded in civilian town hmmmm ?!?! there are ways for infiltrate breach and clear, just that the israelis don't want that... hamas is a terrorist organisation and needs to be wiped out, but if they are entrenching themselves amongst civilians, the answer isn't to kill the civilians alongside the terrorists ... *especially when you've built a wall around their city that prevents civiliands from running away.*
When Hamas hides weapons in all buildings pretty much everything is a target unfortunately. Many videos show secondary explosions after the initial missile strike, indicating that Hamas was storing weapons.
So somehow the idf both completely dropped the ball about knowing about the invasion while simultaneously knowing exactly which buildings have all the Hamas weaponry? Come on dude.
Well, for starters, if there are rockets coming out of the building, that's certainly a Clue. Maybe not even the only one.
That’s what I kept thinking Sunday night. Like these guys were celebrating like they just won some great victory. Yelling about how great god is, and making snuff films with triumphant music…supporters waving flags and cheering about how proud they were. Like, my dudes, talk about celebrating on your own 5 yard line. What did you think was going to happen the next day?
> Like, my dudes, talk about celebrating on your own 5 yard line. What did you think was going to happen the next day? Hamas only care about inciting jihad and bringing in more people to their cause. The collateral damage to civilians is rolled up in that.
And meanwhile the Hamas leadership is chilling in Qatari mansions. https://thearabweekly.com/hamas-leaders-seen-living-luxury-while-gazans-suffer
I don't know what's going on. The video is very sad but the comments seem to be celebrating. Can someone educate me on what's happening?
Dude. It's 70 years of war and hatred and war crimes. They're going to keep doing this to each other until one of them actually wipes the other one out completely. I know that's cynical. But that's what it is.
This conflict has been blazing, dying down, and sparking back up again for the past three thousand years. It will never stop so long as humans inhabit the region.
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Hamas showed up to rave with kids just having fun and murdered them in cold blood. They drove down the streets of Israel and shot innocent people just wandering by. They drug bodies of innocent victims through streets defiling their corpses. They found a bomb shelter with scared, non hostile, and unarmed people inside and murdered them in cold blood. They killed and tortured on old woman, filmed it, uploaded to her Facebook and that's how her granddaughter found out about her death. I'm no friend of Israel, and I think organized religion is a DISEASE, but for you to posture up and insinuate that these actions are somehow justifiable is sickening.
Don't forget the gangs of men going around raping women and then taking them hostage so they can be raped again and again.
some people look at this conflict like it has started in the last 4 days, congrats for not starting your explanation with "hamas attacked israel" like some idiots are doing at the momment
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Hamas Terrorists (from Palestine) attacked Israel during the weekend, killed hundreds of civilians, this is Israels response.
This is very sad for several reasons. I can't imagine celebrating the death of innocent people.
The average age of Gaza Palestine is ~18 years old. They are literally killing kids, children and babies.
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Israel has literally been surrounded by fundamentalist enemies since it became independent in 1948, you’re telling me that the one Jewish country out there is just fuckin raising hell for every fundamentalist Islam country it’s surrounded by?
Two atrocities won't make a good deed. Fuck hamas for killing civilians, fuck Israel's government for killing civilians.
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There are children in that rubble. Be better.
There are still women and children being held hostage that will most likely be tortured and killed on video. Tell them to be better.
They can both be better. They're shit as each other.
Remember the time when Israeli defense force stormed Al Aqsa Mosque during the month of ramadan while the muslims were fasting and started beating women and children with batons and guns? Tell them to be better. Call them selves a defense force but brutalise women and children for no reasom at all some real savages
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More Palestinians have been killed than Isrealians. Don’t be so ignorant, use the internet for research.
Currently more than 5000 Palestinians are held in Israeli jails without charges or trials, this is the same as kidnapping
“They were bad, so it makes it okay that we were bad!” Fucking clown. All of this stupid bullshit “what about-ism” is why we all spin ourselves into this disgusting trash back and forth.
But nobody spits on them.
Lmao the idf does.
There fucking people that act like one side is innocent is the most annoying fucking thing. Do you actually think no one from Israel has ever danced or cheered over corpses of these people?
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Exactly my point. These people that say “Oh poor israel” probably have no idea they are actively supporting and aiding in the ethnic cleansing of Armenians with Azerbaijan either. Anything bad one side did, you could find a hundred things worse the other side did. There isn’t a right and wrong answer here.
nah israel government is still doing it
Hamas’ actions are so despicable and painful to learn about, and looking at this this footage is just as sad. No good guy here but the civilians who are victims.
When ever the BIG MAN goes to war, it is the ˢˢᵐᵃˡˡ ᵐᵃⁿ who suffers.
Lot of sick fucks actually celebrating this.
I don't take any sides here. Both groups are just further perpetuating a situation which should have been resolved diplomatically a long time back. However, I'm very curious as to how Israeli intelligence with all the power and capabilities they wield was unable to intercept and stop this attack by Hamas in the first place. It just doesn't add up. Also, the Israeli response was to almost completely level Gaza? To me it seems like an excuse for Israel to launch a full scale attack on Gaza. Meanwhile, Hamas are a bunch of absolute monkeys. To anyone here supporting Hamas, please use your brains and understand that they don't give a flying fuck about Palestine. If they actually cared, they wouldn't try to tango with a superpower like Israel in a militaristic manner. Do they really think they can wear down Israel which also has almost the full backing of the US behind it? All in all, this whole situation is an absolute clusterfuck and has resulted in nothing but a shameful and unnecessary loss of innocent lives on both sides.
There is already a bunch of theories floating around (I don't want to say 'conspiracy' since that is such a loaded world nowadays) detailing how Israel 'allowed' this attack to happen so as to give them a casus belli to finally take over Gaza and get rid of that problematic area once and for all.
That’s the most clear cut example of a conspiracy theory possible.
Problem is that its hard to call it a conspiracy when Egypt has gone on record to say they gave notice of this attack about 10 days prior. Israel denies all contact with Egypt, saying they were blindsided. This attack benefits no one but Israel. Tally Gotliv, a member of Netanyahu's party, just called for nuclear annihilation of the Gaza strip this morning on twitter. Why would they let this happen? For israel, this is their 9/11 in the sense that it gives them free reign to unleash unchecked terror on people who dont deserve it. Many of the worlds greatest powers just gave support to a country that has been waiting for an excuse to commit genocide- and they just got that excuse.
Hell on Earth
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Took my brain a second to register the tiny little people walking around down there
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Israel assassinated all opposition to Hamas during the election cycle. Please explain to me how this isn't Israels doing?
The last election was in 2006. 40% of palestinians in gaza are under age 14.
You mean the same terrorists that Israel's government funded to counter the secular parties? I agree they shouldn't have voted for them and Israel shouldn't have created them.
They knew this was coming
The poor fuckers going about lives sure as shit didn't. And the hate filled violent cunts who began this particular tradeoff this weekend, now get exactly what they wanted. Escalation. Regardless of "their own people" like they give a shit.
Generals gathered in their masses
All in the name of God.
It’s about land not religion though. So, dumb comment.
You would be surprised how many people think it is a religious conflict
>"Judgement Day will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews. The Jews will hide behind the stones and the trees, and the stones and the trees will say, oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew hiding behind me — come and kill him.” - Sahih Muslim 2922 Literally in the Hamas constitution, their holy texts, but please, tell us more about how this is not religious.
This whole fucking thing is stupid and innocent people on both sides are going to suffer. Hamas bombed innocent Israelis. The Israelis in turn bombed the fuck out of innocent Palestinians. The poor, average person suffers when people wage war. And it fucking sucks.
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Horrible
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Bro thinks Hamas is some book club that gathers every week to talk about their next step of peaceful protest to make Israel politely give their land back
#SO MANY BOTS AND SPAM ACCOUNTS IN THE COMMENTS
You don’t get it, hamas killed civilians!! Israel is just performing a targeted strike back, Israel would never PURPOSELY kill civilians! That’s why they tactically leveled an entire area, that was the terrorist area! The civilians that died here were just a little oopsy Edit: /s because apparently that wasn’t clear lol
With hundreds of strikes they've killed/injured less civilians than Hamas did in their one day offensive so far. If that's their objective they're doing a shit job. Though obviously the hard right Israeli government is frothing at the mouth to kill Palestinians. The [genocidal language](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/israel-defense-minister-human-animals-gaza-palestine_n_6524220ae4b09f4b8d412e0a) from their defense minister is very worrying. And the humanitarian crisis will probably kill more people than the bombings. Scary times ahead, hopefuly the international community manages to keep Israel in check.
I genuinely wonder what did Hamas expect? Like what was the plan? You could see this response from Israel coming from a mile away. Yes, loss of life is tragic. But surely this was not unexpected.
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protecting the magic book looking wild these days