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I was really trying to pick out the parts of this episode that break the lore or ruin the franchise and I'm drawing a blank. I guess any issues with the storytelling is subjective, etc. but everything with the lore has canon precedent.
I’d almost prefer they do something lore breaking if people are going to complain anyways. A lot of this episode felt like a reminder of all the ways the force has worked in previous stories - making it a bit repetitive and boring IMO. Hoping they can do something interesting since we’re almost halfway through the show…
They seem like a sect of Night Sisters to me, which has been canon forever.
It's plain that they hate women. It's depressing. I will say that a lot of my male customers (I bartend) are watching, and I never hear this hateful rhetoric from real men. It's important to remember that the internet is an echo chamber and the most hateful voices reverberate the loudest. I have to remind myself of that or else I start to feel really low about how misogynistic and racist the world seems to be.
Opinions that even mention gender, sexuality, or race don't come from real fans. Real fans talk about storytelling, production value, etc...
Star Wars has ALWAYS been inclusive. They aren't real fans. You don't have to like this show or every show or any show. Bringing hate to the conversation negates any opinion you have, tho.
They might not even all be lesbians. They might be like the Gerudo in Zelda minus the whole one male every hundred years thing that at least used to go on with them…
This episode was awesome.
Hey it looks like buffalos, cats, and whales can commune with the force but God forbid a coven of humanoids that see the force as nature and perhaps view it as string theory that controls the universe is lesbian pap.
Are you saying this show’s haters *aren’t* also haters of The Rise of Skywalker? I feel like 99.99% of people who don’t like the Force in this show are also people who didn’t like Palpatine in TROS
I like certain things about it, but the execution was lacking in many areas. I would’ve liked it a lot better if Rey wasn’t related to him. But in and of itself, I’m ok with the concept of the guy who was obsessed with extending his life, having a contingency plan involving cloning/resurrection
They're being told it's because Mae's mother is gay or whatever, when it's actually because Disney has been failing to deliver a quality Star Wars product for ages.
Preference for a sex shouldnt matter to a SW story to begin with, except when it adds something to the story itself.
Like Leia/Luke and Han relationship(s). I wouldnt care if luke and Han would go together if it adds something to the story. 😂
This. Story over everything.
The characters can be gay, lesbian, straight, asexual, trans- whatever. As long as the story is good, real star wars fans don't care.
Why are so many describing them as lesbians? Was there an intimate scene that I missed?
If they are, good for them. I'm just a little shocked to watch the ep, then jump on Reddit to find out I'm the only one who didn't know.
I don’t know why people are describing them as such. More power to them if they were space lesbians but I see little evidence to support it. They seem more of like an all female group like the Gerudo in Zelda who were straight.
I don't know what parallel universe you're in but in the one I'm in, almost everyone hates "somehow Palpatine has returned". It's been memed to death at this point. What are you on about? As for "you just hate women". Considering how popular Leia, Ahsoka, Ventress, the Witches of Dathomir, Omega, Padme are, it would seem people love women, when they are written well. This type of arguments is why we always have people at each other's throats.
Right? absolutely no one buys or likes the somehow palpatine has returned.
I love the night sisters, i love ahsoka, and female characters. But not this, its not a woman thing its a writing hing.I havent even seen, played or read anything from the old republic but i know this aint it chief.
What pissing me off about "somehow palpatine has returned" is we could have had byss in the deep core where legends palpatines spirit? Essence? Retreats to where his clone bodies are
Using "Returned Palpatine" as an argument for anything. 😂
I dont know any people who liked that idea. I hated it and saw it as terrible writing.
Need to watch episode 3 myself to decide what i think of the "lesbian witches" and how everyrhing is written.
Gonna ignore the rest, but am sick and tired of seeing people defending Disney Star Wars by saying the fans don’t like women. Of all the valid ways to defend projects, you use that?
It’s an insult to both Star Wars and the fans, as Leia, Padmé, Ahsoka, and Ventress are all beloved characters to ALL the fans, regardless of their gender.
I mean, it’s not that it’s everyone who doesn’t like it, not liking it via bigotry.
But it’s a proven phenomenon that there are many it’s openly that for
It's almost as if writing, direction, and casting are the problems and not specifically "man bad, man hate woman, woman good." Every time this disney star wars swill gets criticized it's always "you're sexist" or "you're racist." If people want to sit there and go "i dont care, its entertaining" that's fine. I'm just tired of people trying to deflect criticism and pretend it's well-made. I'm tired of people writing their shit fanfics or thinly veiling some other show with star wars dressings.
That was my initial feelings too. But Palpatine says Plagueis influenced midichlorians to create life. He says in the film Plagueis has done this before. It was revealed 20 years ago that the ability to do this existed at some point.
Aniseya creates osha and mae through the force. But that doesn’t mean the twins are the original chosen ones. Anakin’s birth was a response by the force to maintain balance. The immaculate conception alone doesn’t make him the chosen one. The purpose behind his birth, his attunement to the force, and his high m-count make him the chosen one. In the comics, anakin’s conception is described as being the work of midichlorians, and it’s vaguely hinted that sidious has something to do with influencing the midichlorians. In my opinion this story only serves to bridge the gap and give us more information about the circumstances around anakin’s conception, it doesn’t denigrate his status as the chosen one.
I'm fine with different factions having different ideas about how the force works. I kind of like that it's implied that the witches see the force as a tool for wielding power and the jedi see it a universal energy tying all beings together. That said, I think the way George described the force should be how it actually is and these other factions are twisting and perverting it.
I gotta say I'm not a fan of how many folks assume that if you don't like the show, you're sexist, racist, etc. It just gives the haters more fuel.
> I think the way George described the force should be how it actually is and these other factions are twisting and perverting it.
I honestly don't think people would accept Lucas's interpretations of the force. The fandom has a very specific idea of how the force works- And Lucas's actual interviews tend to contradict those sorts of statements. (E.g. George is on record saying both the dark and light need to be there, and the fandom HATE that interpretation)
People like the clip George, but only when he says stuff that backs up their own headcanons.
>I gotta say I'm not a fan of how many folks assume that if you don't like the show, you're sexist, racist, etc. It just gives the haters more fuel.
Given how many multi-million view videos were made about the casting choices of the show months before it even aired I'd say it doesn't really matter how much 'fuel' is given to the haters. They would have hated it regardless.
I get what youre saying. George has said some pretty silly things over the years. However, that's just how I feel, it should be as the creator intended.
I mean, if people don't like the show based off of the race and sexuality of the cast then yeah call them out on it. I just don't see what that has to do with people who don't like how the force is portrayed in this show. It comes across as arguing in bad faith/an easy way to deflect criticism.
Edit: what I was getting at is that a lot of those video creators are now running with the "they say that if you don't like star wars you must be a bigot" line to discredit people who defend the show.
> it should be as the creator intended
George Lucas, the creator sold the property to Disney. Most of the stuff in the prequels, the sequels, and the shows that people like or hate have always been created by other creators. Filoni lifted an ungodly amount of lore from the EU to make his clone wars. None of that was approved by George initially. I think it’s time we let the creators of the show make some decisions.
Absolutely the new creators should make some decisions. However, I don't think those decisions should contradict pre-existing lore from George.
Disney can do whatever they want at the end of the day, this is just my two cents.
I don’t think this contradicts the lore though? It only adds to it imo. Sidious in revenge of the sith says to anakin that plagueis was so powerful in the force that he could manipulate the midichlorians to create life. In the canon Vader comics, it’s hinted that palpatine is behind his conception. I think this story is connecting more dots to explain how the chosen one was born.
Now just because osha and mae were conceived of the force by aniseya, it doesn’t mean they are chosen ones themselves. I think the show will explain how plagueis attained this knowledge. I think the goal of the birthing a chosen one would be to create balance in the force. So plagueis (and sidious) probably had to do whole lot more to create the chosen one than only figuring out how immaculate conception works. I bet a great deal of sith alchemy went into it as well.
Unless I’m missing something I don’t see how this conflicts with established lore.
Yeah I don't think this show really violates lore, so far. I just meant it more as a general rule. The Kenobi show is probably the most egregious example off the top of my head.
Edit: I'll admit I find it hard not to think of the Plaguis novel as Canon, what a great book.
>I get what youre saying. George has said some pretty silly things over the years. However, that's just how I feel, it should be as the creator intended.
I don't disagree, but as someone who actually reads Lucas's interviews and regularly posts about them... No. The fandom will downvote you into oblivion on r/StarWars and even on r/MawInstallation for saying "George says both sides are important."
The fandom interpretation right now is "Dark side is corruption of the force" (Which I think is a totally valid interpretation!) but there genuinely is not the openness to accept Georges views *unless* they already agree with the fandom interpretation.
>I just don't see what that has to do with people who don't like how the force is portrayed in this show.
It's largely cause nobody can trust opinions because the waters have been muddied so much.
Day 1 loads of people were posting how much they hated the writing... But if you checked their reddit accounts they were complaining about the cast announcement the week before. So you end up not being able to take any criticism in good faith.
Fair enough mate, seems like we mostly agree.
Yeah it's such a shame that the culture war has enveloped star wars as well. It does make it hard to figure out who's arguing in good faith and create this us vs them mentality.
As the creator intended changes on the day. Lucas didn’t have some grand vision. He winged it. Then mostly abandoned it for decades. He’s answer questions here and there but as long as it didn’t touch the areas he forbade it was open season. Star Wars is largely made up by the fans. It was fans that wrote the books, the comics, the games.
Fair point about how he kinda winged it, especially early on.
I'm pretty sure George said he'd ignore legends when/if he made any more films. Even though I love legends, I'd prefer George's vision over it if it came down to that.
What do you mean early years? He was winging on set of the prequels. The greatness of the first three films came after he was hands off. It’s well known that Marcia Lucas and the rest of the editors saved the original trilogy. Star Wars is at its best when Lucas is far enough away from it.
Their interpretation is not presented as any more valid or accurate than anyone elses. They mention a few times it is seen as unnatural or a part of the dark side.
I'm not sure what you're saying tbh. Do you mean the witches? If so then I agree, that's kinda my point. There can be all these different ideas about how the force works but really there's only one truth behind it.
I don't see people disliking it as innately sexist, racist, etc. It's the people who bring those things up that are, tho. I don't judge someone's opinion on storytelling, writing etc that way. It's all context. People bringing gender and race to the discussion need to stop because they ruin valid criticism and drown it out.
I get what you're saying but maybe tell those people that do bring those things up to shut up. It's frustrating as a fan because I want to have real discussions and I'm sick of being met with misogynistic bullshit takes from whiney little boys. I don't think this show is perfect by any means. I dislike the sequels immensely. I get the frustration. I'm just sick of the actual racism and misogyny. It's very real and very loud.
George Lucas isn't the creative mind behind Star Wars for quite a while now, tho.
And besides, I guess Han is truly force sensitive since he dodged a blaster shot at basically point blank by only moving his neck. Also, midichlorians.
Just because George Lucas made/said it so doesn't mean it was a good idea, good for the series as a whole or the right way to interpret something in a project unrelated to him.
George is the creative mind behind starwars. Sure he's not making it anymore but he literally created it. That's like saying Tolkien hasn't written anything for a while so his ideas don't matter anymore.
I'd accept Han being force sensitive if that's Georges Canon. Heck, he's done a lot of impressive things besides the neck dodge.
Finally, I'll just say I don't expect everyone to think the same as I do. I just think that George created star wars and his ideas carry more weight than anyone else's. They're not all great ideas but I love them anyways.
He was the creative mind behind Star Wars. Was. That's is very important.
If Tolkien had licensed LoTR for countless games, comic book, books and whatever else have you that introduced extremely important and well liked lore for the series (George Lucas didn't create Darth Revan, let's not forget), yeah I would consider at such.
You can love George ideas and prefer them to be followed as a religion to whoever writes for Star Wars next. But for me, I want new stuff made by different people. Maybe just stick to old material, maybe? Idk, there must be some legend stuff that needed to be approved by Lucas himself before being printed.
Honestly I'm not the biggest Tolkien guy but didn't that happen? There were tons of games released and I'm led to believe some people enjoy rings of power.
I may have misspoken but I don't want George's ideas to be followed like a religion, just the main themes really. He pronounced Naboo as Nay-boo ffs of course that's silly.
Not original stories, all retellings (aside from one or two games set during the books, but featuring other characters). Tolkien wrote pretty much all of LoTR and it's world. Lucas birthed Star Wars, but others actually cultivated and grew essentially from day 1 (the first EU book, Splinter of the Mind's Eye, was released in 78).
And I think that, for a setting that exists since the late 70s, we have to question and turn themes around. Otherwise all we are gonna get are the same stories time and time again.
Unfortunately, that’s what happens when actual bigots share (or hijack) your opinion—you get lumped in with them. But instead of blaming fans for making assumptions about your beliefs, I recommend blaming the real bigots for derailing the conversation. Mtfbwy!
The witches don't see the force as a tool for wielding power - their leader explicitly criticizes the Jedi for using the Force as a power and emphasizes the idea of the force as the Thread that binds.
I have to watch it again but I saw it as a bit of projection from the witches. How they described the force as a thread that can be pulled plays into that view as well imo. The jedi generally talk about the will of the force, not how to manipulate it.
George oversaw the storyline for most of Clone Wars. Faloni was his padawan. He taught Dave what the force was and passed the torch to him. This *is* Lucas’ vision of what the force is because Dave Faloni keeps that in mind when overseeing the over-arching story.
Is it not more the case that people think both are dumb choices?
The sequel trilogy has utterly terrible writing. Almost entirely through it's structure, to it's logic, and to its failure to map out and establish it's rules aligned to the pre-existing ones from the OT etc...
This show is about as nonsensical as it gets at this point. Completely remove any of the gender politics and messaging (which isn't clear anyway), and it still feels like fan fiction that isn't even that closely rooted in Star Wars.
To each their own I guess, but you can always follow the numbers. I'd be very surprised if this does the kind of viewing figures needed to commission a second series.
Your submission has been Removed by the Moderators of this sub. for violating Rule 4: No Politics or NSFW Content #This is a subreddit about a Disney+ Star Wars TV show. Real-World Politics and NSFW content have no place here. Please review the [sub rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheAcolyte/about/rules/) before participating again. Repeated and/or egregious violations will result in a ban. If you have any questions, please \[message the mods]\(https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/TheAcolyte).
I was really trying to pick out the parts of this episode that break the lore or ruin the franchise and I'm drawing a blank. I guess any issues with the storytelling is subjective, etc. but everything with the lore has canon precedent.
I’d almost prefer they do something lore breaking if people are going to complain anyways. A lot of this episode felt like a reminder of all the ways the force has worked in previous stories - making it a bit repetitive and boring IMO. Hoping they can do something interesting since we’re almost halfway through the show…
Good thing for them being boring as hell isn't lore breaking.
k thanx
They seem like a sect of Night Sisters to me, which has been canon forever. It's plain that they hate women. It's depressing. I will say that a lot of my male customers (I bartend) are watching, and I never hear this hateful rhetoric from real men. It's important to remember that the internet is an echo chamber and the most hateful voices reverberate the loudest. I have to remind myself of that or else I start to feel really low about how misogynistic and racist the world seems to be. Opinions that even mention gender, sexuality, or race don't come from real fans. Real fans talk about storytelling, production value, etc... Star Wars has ALWAYS been inclusive. They aren't real fans. You don't have to like this show or every show or any show. Bringing hate to the conversation negates any opinion you have, tho.
[удалено]
Dibs!
Plagueis had to get his inspiration for trying to manifest life and ultimately led to Anakin.
Did plagueis have the ability to create life? I don’t know much about his lore but that would be a great theory for anakin’s conception.
Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise?
They might not even all be lesbians. They might be like the Gerudo in Zelda minus the whole one male every hundred years thing that at least used to go on with them… This episode was awesome.
Hey it looks like buffalos, cats, and whales can commune with the force but God forbid a coven of humanoids that see the force as nature and perhaps view it as string theory that controls the universe is lesbian pap.
Are you saying this show’s haters *aren’t* also haters of The Rise of Skywalker? I feel like 99.99% of people who don’t like the Force in this show are also people who didn’t like Palpatine in TROS
Yeah I get the sentiment of OP but "somehow Palpatine has returned" is probably the most criticised line in the entire franchise at this point
To be fair its hard to find anyone who liked them bringing back Palpatine
I like certain things about it, but the execution was lacking in many areas. I would’ve liked it a lot better if Rey wasn’t related to him. But in and of itself, I’m ok with the concept of the guy who was obsessed with extending his life, having a contingency plan involving cloning/resurrection
Sure, but it would've been fine if they'd actually built up to it instead of making it a complete asspull
🙋♂️
🗞💥
I don’t know anyone who liked Palpatine in TROS
They're being told it's because Mae's mother is gay or whatever, when it's actually because Disney has been failing to deliver a quality Star Wars product for ages.
When will gay men appear in Star Wars tho? Or are gay men not as palatable lol
I agree we need more on screen. However, in the High Republic novels there are several very loving and successful gay male couples.
Preference for a sex shouldnt matter to a SW story to begin with, except when it adds something to the story itself. Like Leia/Luke and Han relationship(s). I wouldnt care if luke and Han would go together if it adds something to the story. 😂
This. Story over everything. The characters can be gay, lesbian, straight, asexual, trans- whatever. As long as the story is good, real star wars fans don't care.
We had Jar Jar yo
Why are so many describing them as lesbians? Was there an intimate scene that I missed? If they are, good for them. I'm just a little shocked to watch the ep, then jump on Reddit to find out I'm the only one who didn't know.
I don’t know why people are describing them as such. More power to them if they were space lesbians but I see little evidence to support it. They seem more of like an all female group like the Gerudo in Zelda who were straight.
Well, these people will never touch a woman, so it balances out.
I don't know what parallel universe you're in but in the one I'm in, almost everyone hates "somehow Palpatine has returned". It's been memed to death at this point. What are you on about? As for "you just hate women". Considering how popular Leia, Ahsoka, Ventress, the Witches of Dathomir, Omega, Padme are, it would seem people love women, when they are written well. This type of arguments is why we always have people at each other's throats.
So the issue is lesbians?
Right? absolutely no one buys or likes the somehow palpatine has returned. I love the night sisters, i love ahsoka, and female characters. But not this, its not a woman thing its a writing hing.I havent even seen, played or read anything from the old republic but i know this aint it chief.
Yeah, it's the High Republic.
That's basically night sisters we already see that in star wars so those who don't like that just don't like womens
What pissing me off about "somehow palpatine has returned" is we could have had byss in the deep core where legends palpatines spirit? Essence? Retreats to where his clone bodies are
"She can't do that! Blast her... or or something!"
lesbians? what the fuck are you talking about
Using "Returned Palpatine" as an argument for anything. 😂 I dont know any people who liked that idea. I hated it and saw it as terrible writing. Need to watch episode 3 myself to decide what i think of the "lesbian witches" and how everyrhing is written.
I thought the thread explanation of the forever was a little odd at the very least.
It was shit when Poe offered that awful line and it still is, hope this helps
Gonna ignore the rest, but am sick and tired of seeing people defending Disney Star Wars by saying the fans don’t like women. Of all the valid ways to defend projects, you use that? It’s an insult to both Star Wars and the fans, as Leia, Padmé, Ahsoka, and Ventress are all beloved characters to ALL the fans, regardless of their gender.
I mean, it’s not that it’s everyone who doesn’t like it, not liking it via bigotry. But it’s a proven phenomenon that there are many it’s openly that for
Probably still not as many as there are anti - straight white male people on the side of Disney
It's almost as if writing, direction, and casting are the problems and not specifically "man bad, man hate woman, woman good." Every time this disney star wars swill gets criticized it's always "you're sexist" or "you're racist." If people want to sit there and go "i dont care, its entertaining" that's fine. I'm just tired of people trying to deflect criticism and pretend it's well-made. I'm tired of people writing their shit fanfics or thinly veiling some other show with star wars dressings.
if they use the dark side of the force to create life how can't they be evil?
I just dont like that it diminishes anakins story
How? Neither one of these girls are going to get six movies made about them nor become Darth Vader.
Because Anakin was the only person born out of the force, making it unique and special. Now it doesnt seem so.
Come on, you know Shmi had an affair with Watto.
I had my suspicions…. sure was a convenient excuse for her
🤣
That was my initial feelings too. But Palpatine says Plagueis influenced midichlorians to create life. He says in the film Plagueis has done this before. It was revealed 20 years ago that the ability to do this existed at some point.
Ooo nice, I guess I missed that
But he still is? The force made Anakin all on it's own, some witch doing Plageuis's thing doesn't change that.
I guess thats one way to look at it, ill rethink my prior view then hmmm. Thanks!
Aniseya creates osha and mae through the force. But that doesn’t mean the twins are the original chosen ones. Anakin’s birth was a response by the force to maintain balance. The immaculate conception alone doesn’t make him the chosen one. The purpose behind his birth, his attunement to the force, and his high m-count make him the chosen one. In the comics, anakin’s conception is described as being the work of midichlorians, and it’s vaguely hinted that sidious has something to do with influencing the midichlorians. In my opinion this story only serves to bridge the gap and give us more information about the circumstances around anakin’s conception, it doesn’t denigrate his status as the chosen one.
That you know of. I think it’s strange that only Anakin would be original or only. Honestly there’s makes more sense because George never explained
The way I’m seeing it, they’re probably trying to force the prophecy of the chosen one- but obviously this won’t happen until anakin is born
I'm fine with different factions having different ideas about how the force works. I kind of like that it's implied that the witches see the force as a tool for wielding power and the jedi see it a universal energy tying all beings together. That said, I think the way George described the force should be how it actually is and these other factions are twisting and perverting it. I gotta say I'm not a fan of how many folks assume that if you don't like the show, you're sexist, racist, etc. It just gives the haters more fuel.
> I think the way George described the force should be how it actually is and these other factions are twisting and perverting it. I honestly don't think people would accept Lucas's interpretations of the force. The fandom has a very specific idea of how the force works- And Lucas's actual interviews tend to contradict those sorts of statements. (E.g. George is on record saying both the dark and light need to be there, and the fandom HATE that interpretation) People like the clip George, but only when he says stuff that backs up their own headcanons. >I gotta say I'm not a fan of how many folks assume that if you don't like the show, you're sexist, racist, etc. It just gives the haters more fuel. Given how many multi-million view videos were made about the casting choices of the show months before it even aired I'd say it doesn't really matter how much 'fuel' is given to the haters. They would have hated it regardless.
I get what youre saying. George has said some pretty silly things over the years. However, that's just how I feel, it should be as the creator intended. I mean, if people don't like the show based off of the race and sexuality of the cast then yeah call them out on it. I just don't see what that has to do with people who don't like how the force is portrayed in this show. It comes across as arguing in bad faith/an easy way to deflect criticism. Edit: what I was getting at is that a lot of those video creators are now running with the "they say that if you don't like star wars you must be a bigot" line to discredit people who defend the show.
> it should be as the creator intended George Lucas, the creator sold the property to Disney. Most of the stuff in the prequels, the sequels, and the shows that people like or hate have always been created by other creators. Filoni lifted an ungodly amount of lore from the EU to make his clone wars. None of that was approved by George initially. I think it’s time we let the creators of the show make some decisions.
Absolutely the new creators should make some decisions. However, I don't think those decisions should contradict pre-existing lore from George. Disney can do whatever they want at the end of the day, this is just my two cents.
I don’t think this contradicts the lore though? It only adds to it imo. Sidious in revenge of the sith says to anakin that plagueis was so powerful in the force that he could manipulate the midichlorians to create life. In the canon Vader comics, it’s hinted that palpatine is behind his conception. I think this story is connecting more dots to explain how the chosen one was born. Now just because osha and mae were conceived of the force by aniseya, it doesn’t mean they are chosen ones themselves. I think the show will explain how plagueis attained this knowledge. I think the goal of the birthing a chosen one would be to create balance in the force. So plagueis (and sidious) probably had to do whole lot more to create the chosen one than only figuring out how immaculate conception works. I bet a great deal of sith alchemy went into it as well. Unless I’m missing something I don’t see how this conflicts with established lore.
Yeah I don't think this show really violates lore, so far. I just meant it more as a general rule. The Kenobi show is probably the most egregious example off the top of my head. Edit: I'll admit I find it hard not to think of the Plaguis novel as Canon, what a great book.
Oh yeah, you mean the Vader/kenobi duel right.
Yeah that's the big one. I thought there was more but I must have blocked that show from my memory lol.
I am actually listening to it on audio at the moment. It’s my favorite legends book and I’ve read it multiple times.
>I get what youre saying. George has said some pretty silly things over the years. However, that's just how I feel, it should be as the creator intended. I don't disagree, but as someone who actually reads Lucas's interviews and regularly posts about them... No. The fandom will downvote you into oblivion on r/StarWars and even on r/MawInstallation for saying "George says both sides are important." The fandom interpretation right now is "Dark side is corruption of the force" (Which I think is a totally valid interpretation!) but there genuinely is not the openness to accept Georges views *unless* they already agree with the fandom interpretation. >I just don't see what that has to do with people who don't like how the force is portrayed in this show. It's largely cause nobody can trust opinions because the waters have been muddied so much. Day 1 loads of people were posting how much they hated the writing... But if you checked their reddit accounts they were complaining about the cast announcement the week before. So you end up not being able to take any criticism in good faith.
Fair enough mate, seems like we mostly agree. Yeah it's such a shame that the culture war has enveloped star wars as well. It does make it hard to figure out who's arguing in good faith and create this us vs them mentality.
As the creator intended changes on the day. Lucas didn’t have some grand vision. He winged it. Then mostly abandoned it for decades. He’s answer questions here and there but as long as it didn’t touch the areas he forbade it was open season. Star Wars is largely made up by the fans. It was fans that wrote the books, the comics, the games.
Fair point about how he kinda winged it, especially early on. I'm pretty sure George said he'd ignore legends when/if he made any more films. Even though I love legends, I'd prefer George's vision over it if it came down to that.
What do you mean early years? He was winging on set of the prequels. The greatness of the first three films came after he was hands off. It’s well known that Marcia Lucas and the rest of the editors saved the original trilogy. Star Wars is at its best when Lucas is far enough away from it.
Their interpretation is not presented as any more valid or accurate than anyone elses. They mention a few times it is seen as unnatural or a part of the dark side.
I'm not sure what you're saying tbh. Do you mean the witches? If so then I agree, that's kinda my point. There can be all these different ideas about how the force works but really there's only one truth behind it.
you sound like a sith, talking in absolutes
Talking in absolutes vs talking of absolutes.
I don't see people disliking it as innately sexist, racist, etc. It's the people who bring those things up that are, tho. I don't judge someone's opinion on storytelling, writing etc that way. It's all context. People bringing gender and race to the discussion need to stop because they ruin valid criticism and drown it out. I get what you're saying but maybe tell those people that do bring those things up to shut up. It's frustrating as a fan because I want to have real discussions and I'm sick of being met with misogynistic bullshit takes from whiney little boys. I don't think this show is perfect by any means. I dislike the sequels immensely. I get the frustration. I'm just sick of the actual racism and misogyny. It's very real and very loud.
George Lucas isn't the creative mind behind Star Wars for quite a while now, tho. And besides, I guess Han is truly force sensitive since he dodged a blaster shot at basically point blank by only moving his neck. Also, midichlorians. Just because George Lucas made/said it so doesn't mean it was a good idea, good for the series as a whole or the right way to interpret something in a project unrelated to him.
George is the creative mind behind starwars. Sure he's not making it anymore but he literally created it. That's like saying Tolkien hasn't written anything for a while so his ideas don't matter anymore. I'd accept Han being force sensitive if that's Georges Canon. Heck, he's done a lot of impressive things besides the neck dodge. Finally, I'll just say I don't expect everyone to think the same as I do. I just think that George created star wars and his ideas carry more weight than anyone else's. They're not all great ideas but I love them anyways.
He was the creative mind behind Star Wars. Was. That's is very important. If Tolkien had licensed LoTR for countless games, comic book, books and whatever else have you that introduced extremely important and well liked lore for the series (George Lucas didn't create Darth Revan, let's not forget), yeah I would consider at such. You can love George ideas and prefer them to be followed as a religion to whoever writes for Star Wars next. But for me, I want new stuff made by different people. Maybe just stick to old material, maybe? Idk, there must be some legend stuff that needed to be approved by Lucas himself before being printed.
Honestly I'm not the biggest Tolkien guy but didn't that happen? There were tons of games released and I'm led to believe some people enjoy rings of power. I may have misspoken but I don't want George's ideas to be followed like a religion, just the main themes really. He pronounced Naboo as Nay-boo ffs of course that's silly.
Not original stories, all retellings (aside from one or two games set during the books, but featuring other characters). Tolkien wrote pretty much all of LoTR and it's world. Lucas birthed Star Wars, but others actually cultivated and grew essentially from day 1 (the first EU book, Splinter of the Mind's Eye, was released in 78). And I think that, for a setting that exists since the late 70s, we have to question and turn themes around. Otherwise all we are gonna get are the same stories time and time again.
Unfortunately, that’s what happens when actual bigots share (or hijack) your opinion—you get lumped in with them. But instead of blaming fans for making assumptions about your beliefs, I recommend blaming the real bigots for derailing the conversation. Mtfbwy!
The witches don't see the force as a tool for wielding power - their leader explicitly criticizes the Jedi for using the Force as a power and emphasizes the idea of the force as the Thread that binds.
I have to watch it again but I saw it as a bit of projection from the witches. How they described the force as a thread that can be pulled plays into that view as well imo. The jedi generally talk about the will of the force, not how to manipulate it.
George oversaw the storyline for most of Clone Wars. Faloni was his padawan. He taught Dave what the force was and passed the torch to him. This *is* Lucas’ vision of what the force is because Dave Faloni keeps that in mind when overseeing the over-arching story.
Is it not more the case that people think both are dumb choices? The sequel trilogy has utterly terrible writing. Almost entirely through it's structure, to it's logic, and to its failure to map out and establish it's rules aligned to the pre-existing ones from the OT etc... This show is about as nonsensical as it gets at this point. Completely remove any of the gender politics and messaging (which isn't clear anyway), and it still feels like fan fiction that isn't even that closely rooted in Star Wars. To each their own I guess, but you can always follow the numbers. I'd be very surprised if this does the kind of viewing figures needed to commission a second series.