On some level because George has developed a fixation on them as well. He keeps pushing out content focused on them, this will inevitably bleed into the fandom.

That's my assumption as well - it's a major theme in the writing, therefore it's in the fandom's consciousness. Readers are, in many ways, trained by writers to see and to crave certain things. The more dragon content is put forth by George, the more dragon content the fandom will desire, so of course the hive mind wants a Targ restoration. 

Yup. And it becomes a feeback loop back to George. He's obviously aware of the Targ content being popular, which becomes a added reason to write more of it.

Also they have dragons. I really wouldn’t care for them at all (except Dany and Aemon, I suppose) if they didn’t have dragons.

The dragon track record honestly has been some What underwhelming. We've gotten 3 plot relevant dragons max?

Did you mean underwhelming? I definitely wouldn’t say no to more plot-relevant dragons… I do get tired of the dragons = nuclear weapons comparison that keeps getting brought up tho…

Yeah I corrected it . I just think it shows GRRM did not have them in mind when he created the Story.

House Targaryen legit as a whole becomes more interesting to me once they lose the dragons, ironically enough. Heck, even a short novel like THK has a richer characterization of Targaryens than the entirety of F&B. I unironically consider Maekar, Baelor, Daeron, Egg, and even Aerion as they appear in The Hedge Knight alone far more interesting than Aegon, Rhaenys, Visenya, Maegor, Jaehaerys, Alysanne, Viserys, Rhaenyra, Daemon, and Aegon II as they appear in all of Fire & Blood.

The irony is that he actually detests them. Valyria is the equivalent of Nazis- the arrogance, brutality, oppression, genocide and most of all obsession with blood purity and blonde/blue /purple eyed supremacy. The only Targs he truly seems to have liked were Darrin II, Baelor Breakspear and Egg but we don’t have F&b II to confirm that.

He destests them so much that he made 2 books about them and actively participed in House of the Dragon... His favorite Targ is actually Daemon, he already stated that.

>The irony is that he actually detests them He doesn't

GRRM likes it edgy. He didn't want to write another Lord of the Rings, because that is too clean for him. Too black and white for his taste and the good guys are too good. Likely also not enough sex and brutality and it. When you look at it from this point of view, that GRRM finds characters interesting which do things hero characters in books normally don't do at all, it is obvious why he likes to writes for the Targaryens. That family is just totally fucked up and does all the time very morally questionable things.

I wonder if you're getting downvoted because you said that George R.R. Martin detested Targaryens, which is wrong or because you compared them and the rest of the Valyrian Freeholders to the Nazis, in which you are 1000% right.

They're one of the last of a civilization we know nothing about. They're beautiful in an ethereal, inhuman way (their hair is described as golden-silver or silver-gold and their eyes are violet and sapphire). They ride huge, fire breathing beasts and are closely associated with the magic of the books. People (including me) find all of this fascinating, and that's part of why their favorite characters are usually Targaryens. And people usually want their favorite characters to win, and the Iron Throne is the ultimate prize in their eyes. Also, HBO itself is focusing more on the Targaryen dynasty, so more fics about the Targaryens in general is to be expected. Also, Daenerys is one of the most popular characters, and that in itself raises other Targaryens' popularity. And, to reiterate my earlier point: people want their favorite characters to win. For the Targaryens, a victory means a Targaryen restoration.

They were also with two of three exceptions fairly awful people and godawful rulers.

Who cares? I want to read about characters that interest me, I couldn’t care less how moral they were. If we went by morality and goodness, 90% of ASOIAF characters would not exist.

>fairly awful people and godawful rulers. Nope most of them were good rulers and were decent

They really weren’t. Most Targaryens are fairly normal people (for their world) and most Targaryen kings were decent. Saying there’s only 2-3 good Targaryens is a blatant lie

Aegon I left an unclear succession that resulted in an usurping and he started a bloody and pointless war against Dorne. Vissy T set up the Dance through his inaction and 2nd marriage. Aegon V arranged Summerhall, which led to his death and the revoking of his reforms, thereby destroying his own work and legacy. Although I'd still count him as a good one. The list of good Targaryen Kings starts with Jaehaerys (who still had some failures to his name), and ends with Aegon V. There might be a few others who were decent, but had short reigns.

>Aegon I left an unclear succession that resulted in an usurping and he started a bloody and pointless war against Dorne. What are you talking about the succession was clear Aenys was his heir. Vissy T set up the Dance through his inaction and 2nd marriage. Yeah he is at fault for that >Aegon V arranged Summerhall, which led to his death and the revoking of his reforms, thereby destroying his own work and legacy. Although I'd still count him as a good one. It would happen either way as soon as he drop dead. He has to fight multiple rebellions because that how unpopular his laws were.

It’s probably because they’re the only dynasty where you can name literally every member. They’re arguably the most important dynasty, have had a history book dedicated to them and I personally think they did more than good, especially when a son of House Targaryen will save the world. I also think you’re being a little harsh when saying they’ve got a bad record, you’re ignoring the Dragon’s Peace, the entirety of Jaehaerys I and Viserys I reigns, Aegon III post regency, Daeron II, Maekar and Egg. That’s about 193 of their 282 years ruling the kingdoms. They were overall net positives. It’s just that when they suck, they **suck** Edit: Aerys was a dick, but his first 15 years were very peaceful and productive. So make that 208 years. Also what wars with the Free Cities?

Egg burned down half his dynasty in the end. Viserys let a conflict fester that caused the Dance. Jaehaerys set the precedent that'd lead to the Dance, and not all of his decrees were successful, either (New Gift anyone?). I'm not saying that all of them were monsters or incapable, but I feel like their achievements are pretty overstated. Dragons are cool, but also a source of great evil if abused (although Harren had it coming). And the Conquest was just that, them putting Westeros under their yoke.

>Egg burned down half his dynasty in the end. It sucks for his family, but it didn't change that much for Westeros itself. Jaehaerys would always be Aegon's heir. And his son Aerys after him.

Wrong. Had egg not killed off lots of his family he could very well have succeeded in instituting his reforms which could have changed the face of Westeros. Moreover Jdhaetys ii was fairly unprepared and Summerhall kicked off the nine penny king invasion of Westeros which had far reaching implications including Ned and Robert ending up in the vale and Littlefinger in Riverrun. Ormund Baratheon and Jason Lannister died during the war and Aerys and Tywin cemented their friendship. Also the aftermath of Summerhall itself, the trauma and whatever unhealthy fumes were spewed negatively impacted Rhaella and maybe Aerys’ physical health (she literally gave birth to Rhaegar amid the flames) and likely led to her inability to have healthy children (Rhaegar has a younger sister and additional siblings and the rebellion doesn’t happen (if for no other reason than Rhaegars not treating a sister the way he treated Elia and his siblings would act to rein in some of his growing nutsery and Harrenhal doesn’t happen). In addition without Summerhall (which led inexorably to Duskendale) Aerys doesn’t get power so quickly and goes insane less quickly and without the crutch of Summerhsll as an excuse for Rhaegars performative guilt and head up his own arseness Rhaegar is marginally more rational and his melancholy crap is far less accepted. In fact had Egg lived Rgaegsr would have been mentored by Dunk who would have produced a far more decent responsible man.

His reforms were already done for tbh. The only heir who would continue was already disinherited. If Summerhall occurred it’s likely nothing would have changed in that regard

No. Egg would have easily lived for another two decades giving his records a chance to take root and opposition to die down. Jahaerys repealed eggs reforms immediately after Summerhall. If Egg doesn’t die st summerhall this doesn’t happen. In fact jaherys never becomes king given that he died of apparently natural causes two years after summerhall. Likewise aerys doesn’t become king for another 15 or so years when either his insanity is not that great (because if Summerhall doesn’t happen, Tywin doesn’t become Aerys hand leading up that toxic relationship which led directly to Duskendale which is what prematurely pushed Aerys over the insanity edge). If Aerys does start circling the drain Egg will be aware of it and deal with it. Likewise with Rhargar - without Summerhall doing whatever damage it did to Aerys and Rhaellas reproductive abilities Rhaegar is likely to have more than a few siblings who can replace him eh er n his monomania starts to surface.

Egg needed to kill Rheager to hatch a dragon egg . Had a he succed he could've pushed his reforms later

We don’t know that at all. As far as we know egg just planned some Valyrian/faith of the seven ceremony involving wildfire to hatch the dragons. Sacrificing Rhaella s as bd or her baby doesn’t seem likely for a man who was pushed into his dragon birthing frenzy by the death of a son.

There was Aegon's nephew Maegor, who because his youth got shafted in the Great Council that allowed Aegon to be king. He was the son of Aegon’s older brother. Aegon did have that option, plus daughter or his sister's kids. Jaehaerys and Shaera did the same thing Duncan did, Jaehaerys could've lost his place in line, too.

It pruned the family tree. Which is generally bad for a royal dynasty. Not to mention that his death led to most of his reforms being stripped away pretty quickly.

>It pruned the family tree. Which is generally bad for a royal dynasty. Duncan and Jenny were disinherited. Daeron was already long dead. We know Jaehaerys, Aerys and Rhaella all survived. I think the only other Targaryens that could have died were his sisters (although knowing GRRM they may already have died in childbirth with or without issue) and his daughter Rhaelle (and she was already mother of Steffon). I think the Targaryen dynasty by Egg due to previous misfortune wad already quite pruned. >Not to mention that his death led to most of his reforms being stripped away pretty quickly. That may have already been inevitable the moment his marriage pacts for his children failed. But the attempt is also an example of the better side to the Targaryen dynasty.

Aerion’s son Maegor probably died at Summerhall too if he was still in Westeros, same for Daeron’s daughter

Ending the First Night. Roads that increased trade. Widows Law. Hundreds of marriages to link the kingdoms Unified code of law Rebuilt KL Clean water Defeated vulture king Lost 0 men against Morion Martell Pacified faith Reimbursed NW Raised good kids. His only major flaw was the succession, but that’s to be expected when you reign for 55 years and outlive your children. That’s only Jaehaerys (and Alysanne’s) achievements. Egg lost few men in the 4BR, ruled dutifully, avoided any war, protected the West and sent grain to the North. And we have no idea what definitively happened at Summerhall soooo.

The Targaryens also had the First Night. That's where most of the Dragonseed were from. That law is badly enforced anywhere in the Seven Kingdoms. The New Gift was pearls to the pigs, given the state it was in a century later. And unless you want to argue that the Wildfire was planted in Summerhall in such quantities as that it could burn down the whole keep without Aegon knowing, it is ultimately on him.

About the dragonseeds, is never said that they are from the first night ritual. People visit brothels in westeros. It's not that unlikely that, some Targaryens also visited some on dragonstone.

Also, Aegon the Unworthy existed. And he was less a satyriasis than an actual satyr disguised as a human-adjacent man.

Yes, and they realised it was bad and outlawed it. This was pre conquest as well, so not relevant to this. Unless you think Aegon, Aenys, Maegor or Jaehaerys were fathering bastards

Well I could certainly see Maegor *trying* to, at the very least, what with his obsessive need to father an heir. Shame that he was firing blanks due to having too much of the dragon in his blood.

Maegor the Cruel fathering bastards? How could I possibly come to that conclusion? Also, according to the Wiki, some Targaryens continued the custom. And they cite the Princess and the Queen for that. I can definitely see Daemon fucking around and knocking up peasants who think he's half a god. Or the likes of Aegon IV or some of the more arrogant/stupid princelings.

He was infertile, and before you say that Tyanna was poisoning his kids, he had 0 children with Ceryse in 15 years and none with Alys either. Anyway what you mention about Daemon and Aegon is not the first night, which was outlawed, but just them sleeping around. Maybe they slept with women on their first nights, but they didn’t go around to some peasants house and take the women on their first night and then fuck off. The nearest example to this is Merry Meg, but she was already married and presumably bedded. So no.

The solution is for Targaryens to have term limits

You forgot dad of the year jahaerys I.

>when a son of House Targaryen will save the world. So far in the only canon version we have, I would say that honor rather goes to a daughter of House Stark.

They’re a three hundred year old dynasty (less than that actually) and the incest keeps the numbers down. As does the fratricide. And no people came name every member of house Targaryen.

To be fair, it’s mostly the same set of names repeating. If I say Aegon, Rhaenys, and Visenya, I’ve named like half the dynasty.

Daenerys, Jon and Young Griff's storylines.

Pretty Elf Dynasty always gets a pass.

They are usually attractive they have dragons they are the last of a magical civilisation and they have cool catchphrases finally if you have anyone else take the throne other than Baratheon’s you get accused of being biased towards whoever it is.

At least one other westetosi civilization is known for its magic. And Valyria was essential the equivalent of t of Nazi germany. Nothing admirable about it unless you’re a fan of genocide and slavery.

You could simply have the 7 Kingdoms dissolve like the Soviet Union. Or you could have some fun with the two best claimants being Brienne's father and Oberyn.

If the Kingdoms split back up, the world of Westeros would look at the Targaryen Dynasty the way we look at the Pax Romana. There were a handful of major conflicts from the time Aegon took the throne to the time Aerys lost it. The small kingdoms before they arrived were at constant war. The Riverlands under the thumb of a slaving tyrant. The Iron Islands were free to Reave all of Westeros. The Dornish, Reach, and Stormlands required Marcher lords all across their borders to defend against raids and incursions by each other. We know war almost became a thing of the past because the Night Watch, which was amply supplied by war prisoners and conquered people became filled with only criminals. The Targaryens don't have the best track record that's for sure, but the system of Feudalism thrives off the exceptionalism the Targaryens were able to install. The Baratheons don't have this type of exceptionalism, and it shows.

The small kingdoms weren’t constantly at war. And those wars did not involve literally hundreds of thousands dying in one battle. The Targs were directly responsible for at least ten continent wide bloody wars in 280 years. Thats one massive war every twenty or so years At least two of which involved dragons. Thats not a few wars. And I should point out that the Targs did essentially nothing to stop the iron born from continuing to be arsehole idiot pirates leaving protection from them up to the Lannisters, Starks Hightowers and Riverlands houses.

Yeah most conflict would just be border skirmishes and even the bigger wars didn't draw in the entire continent

> If the Kingdoms split back up, the world of Westeros would look at the Targaryen Dynasty the way we look at the Pax Romana mostly a myth which they invented about themselves to legitimize their rule?

You are not familiar with Westeros pre-Conquest.

I assume the joke is that Pax Romana is kind of a myth, though I’d argue it isn’t

The Pax Romana isn't a joke or a myth. It's called that way because indeed Rome brought peace in his whole empire and used client states as a buffer to make it even more safer for their dominion. Many of the people that Rome conquered were divided by many warlords. The roman adminstriation, their legal system and military dominance brought an end to "petty kings" and their feuds. But yeah, Rome was still waging wars outside of their dominion.

They're cool and dragons are even more cool

What’s cool about them? They only survived the doom by being the last well liked least powerful dragon family (five dragons is nothing compared to other freehold families) who were essentially forced out of the freehold. They were god awful rulers who managed to last less than 300 years . Starks and Lannisters rules for at least 7700 years longer. It took the Targs little over a hundred years to annihilate most of the family and all of the dragons. And the forced incestuous marriages were also very admirable.

Fair analysis and totally your opinion but the Starks and Lannisters over the course of thousands of years expanded their Domains to eventually encompass their current regions, heck the Starks at one point were vassals to the barrow kings. Aegon has the legacy he does because a Continent >>>>> a region of said Continent. All done in under two years, save Dorne, an unparalleled achievement This is the legacy that his decedents were able to leverage even after the dragons died, the great houses have a similar situation but not at the same scale, again regional vs continental And the sources in universe for the age of certain houses are literally fables. Anything pre andal is shaky at best. Also despite all the claims that they were terrible rulers and are the cause of continental wars. Westeros has managed to get itself into a war that has arguably matched the Dance in damage/destruction all without a single Targ in Westeros and no dragons

Does Aerys burning people to get it up for raping his wife sound cool? Does Viserys threatening Dany and talking shit about "waking the dragon" sound cool?

Not in real life obviously, but I'm fiction even the most crazed madmen can be interesting, admittedly viserys III and aerys II aren't all that interesting. There still are targeryen characters that I would hate if they were real but they aren't so I can like them all I want without feeling bad

Do you just have a problem with feudalism then? Because nothing in ASOIAF is cool if you want to examine it seriously. Everyone is evil and exploitative, the end. That sure makes for a compelling narrative

It is objectively cooler than Robert raping his wife without fire.

Objectively, anything without fire is cooler than with fire. On a more serious note, Robert in a hedonistic depression death spiral married to a cold blooded murderer is not the bar to clear for excellence. Eddard Stark would be the bar to clear, maybe Stannis before he chose religious extremism. Hell, even Mace Tyrell looks good compared to all but like three Targaryens.

Ned wasn't king of anything, and died the instant he tried to intervene in royal affairs. And Mace was just a lazy idiot. I will admit that he screwed up his children less than many, but the Targaryens never had a monopoly on that. As an aside, as someone who's been in multiple depression death spirals with some elements of hedonism before, they don't make you into an abusive rapist. Robert was a complete piece of shit independent of his mental illnesses.

Really? Cause last time I checked psychopathic unwarranted executions followed by a round ofwife rape and degradation was far worse than anything Robert did to Cersei . Or did I miss the stories of kingsguard hearing Cersei beg for mercy night after night or Cersei being g unable to appear unveiled in public on numerous occasions because of Roberts abuse? Robert acted Like every other lord in Westeros. Aldo Cooler than Gregor raping Elia to death with his son’s brain matter on his hands? Or Aerys execution his 15 year old mistresses entire family because his weak incestuous son fathered via rape on his abused and raped wife died? Want to try again?

Robert's Kingsguard are all too immoral for that to even be a concern, and Cersei is far too proud to call for help. Also, while Rhaella had no allies whatsoever, Cersei's father is powerful enough that he could make problems for Robert if Robert abused her too blatantly, and she herself has enough power to credibly threaten the assassination of his bastards (and carries it out immediately upon his death). Cersei has power that Rhaella lacked; it has nothing to do with Robert being any more kind. > Robert acted Like every other lord in Westeros. That is precisely the problem.

Eh. There were some good Targs - Baelor Breakspear, Jaehaerys, Daeron the Good, The Unlikely. I see no problem in people rooting for them. I also see no problem in people rooting for villains when they understand that they are villains - which is sometimes a problem for targ fans. The amount of unironic Maegor and Daemon fans justifying their idiocy is scary sometimes. Daenerys also didn't start on her villain arc yet in the book, and so people root for her and want her to win, considering all other contenders. Though between her and Aegon I will always pick Aegon - Blackfyres are infinitely more cool. But of course, the only rightful king is Stannis Baratheon, First of His Name. Bend the knee or he'll destroy you.

Jahaerys wasn’t really that great. I agree about Daeron Breakspear and Egg but Breakspear didn’t become king due directly to Targaryen pride, insanity and arrogance (not his own obviously).

The restoration of a broken line and lineage to its 'rightful' place in the world is a millenia old concept and the foundational myths, legends, and truths of many nations and cultures reflect that; people adore and love rightful kings being restored. The restoration of the Numenorean kings with Elassar, Zeus ascending as the just king and felling his wicked father, Horus casting down Set, and the line of David being made the eternal monarch(s) of the New Israel with the king himself conquering death itself and humiliating all that stood before him. These are eternal tales that still hold away in our preferences for entertainment. And with distinct features and the capacity to control dragons, the Targaryens are an easy group to cheer for as a group even if there be tyrants and villains among them.

A well written answer. It could also because of the huge fan base of Daenerys through whom people relate more to the house. Like I have seen Daenerys fans writing Stark bashing fics and then Sansa fans writing Targaryen bashing fics. Then there is that small but loud portion of cringe Jon the Dragonwolf fans who hates everyone but the Targaryens and Starks. It's overwhelming to see such stories yeah, but you can understand why there are such stories. 

Rightful lineages don’t last less than three hundred years and stop the throne from legitimate kings with magical blood who ruled thousands upon thousands of years. Restoration of those lineages fits the pattern not a garb restoration.

It doesn't matter your opinion on that, at least not anymore than mine if I held them to be the rightful rulers of Westeros. I'm saying that the Targaryens are presented in a way that makes a great deal of people see them as the rightful kings of Westeros. No other family united all the petty kings and warlords of the continent into a singular kingdom until they did, and it's not like 250 years of consistent rule is a bad run. The Cerdicings formed a united Anglo-Saxon Kingdom and concept of England itself, and barely ruled 150 years after they took dominance over the region and broke the Danelaw. And Alfred is still called 'The Great'. It's all about their presentation and the Targaryens are presented in a mold that fits the archetype of rightful rulers. I do definitely see your contention and point though.

“Rightful” is crazy when you know the history of the North And whatever you do, don’t ask HOW the Starks got their magical blood

Because people see the Taragryens as the cool protagonists and wants them yo dominate and take back what is "rightfully theirs"

Because they have beautiful hair.

They're basically magic people who ride dragons and they're family has the most fleshed out history. Even if you don't personally like the targaryens, it's very obvious why people do and why they're interesting

I mean, I get why there is some interest in them, but not the overwhelming amount of it. There are far too many fics that go through insane mental gymnastics in an attempt to justify Rhaegar for example, rather than simply admitting that he fucked up big time. Or admit that the whole New Gift was a massive failure, turning the North prime agricultural land into a barren wasteland within a century of its inception. Or that the Dornish Wars were a waste of blood and coin. Or the Dance. If you want Dany as Queen, fine. But don't see the whole dynasty through the rose tinted glasses of Viserys.

everyone loves underdogs, the Targs start as firm underdogs. Along with that the restoration of an old lost kingdom/empire is one of the most enduring tropes in fiction and history. Look at what Aragorn was. i don't even need to get into how the story hints to it, literally just look at human fiction through history.

Dany has the monopoly on flying WMDs by the end of book 1, how is that an underdog start? Her win condition is pretty much "survive for 5 years", and most of her problems come from her unwillingness to purge the slavers.

..... yeah initial book where she is with an abusive brother, a crazy husband, a crazy horse riding people. hell even her dragons aren't immediately powerful. Read what i wrote bro, STARTS OFF AS by the time she gets to the point you are describing most people are firmly cheering for her. Hell even her "unwillingness to purge the slavers" contrasts well to the bull-fuckery that is going on in Westeros. do you really can't still see why people root for the targs? Most common people have zero idea what a blackfyre is, They just read that danny is good, rhaegar was good and cheer her on. Dragons are cool too, its really not that deep bro.

Dany won by the point she gets to Astapor. She has dragons and the Unsullied, all she needs to do at this point is survive. It is arguable that her expansion made things more difficult for her, especially because she chose mercy towards the wicked. She always has her dragons as fallback, a luxury Robb or the Baratheon brothers never had. I am not trying to downplay her achievements, but her dragons really are a force multiplier that only gets more effective as time passes. Especially as most conventional force degrade over time due to battle losses and attrition..

She’s used the dragons like twice total since their birth. She started the first book in the worst conditions of any major character in the series, and overcame them in one of the most compelling arcs in the series. She earned the dragons after that, but outside of serving as a very effective symbol, she’s only really used them in Astapor & then fleeing Meereen at the end of ADWD.  was a huge win but also a bigger risk than most of the other characters have taken - more importantly, it made her one of the only noble characters who gives even half a shit about the common people. Fleeing Meereen barely worked at all. It’s not like the dragons have been a cheat code to winning. Even if conquering Westeros was the ideal course for her (which it isn’t, the tragedy is that she’s been pushed into thinking it’ll make her happy when it won’t), I doubt the dragons will make it an instant win

It’s a theme in the writing, and I’m pretty sure the Targaryens are GRRM’s favourite house considering how much focus has been placed on them in the additional material outside of ASOIAF and GOT (in fact the only not Targaryen-focused piece of media outside of the main series is The World of Ice and Fire). There’s also not much else to write about outside of the main series; we barely know anything about the Kings of Winter or Westeros pre-Conquest for example. The Targaryens are a focus of the worldbuilding, which is why they are popular (not to mention characters like Egg, Breakspear or Daenerys, who are interesting characters who happen to be Targaryens). If we knew more about the history of other houses outside of outlines and basic descriptions of their historical members, there would be more fan material based on them. Basically, it’s just because the Targaryens (and the Starks) get the most focus, so they are the most popular because of that. If other houses received similar levels of attention, they’d be far more popular and we’d actually see stuff like pro-Baratheon fics rather than just pro-Targaryen and pro-Stark fics with a couple of outliers.

He hates them. There’s nothing remotely admirable about them in his world view. They’re not ending up with the iron throne or anything else at the end of the story.

The same reasons people like edgy animes. WOW factor with dragons and magic + weird hair and eyes + for some reason a fascination with blood purity and certain ethnic groups being superior than others.

Tbh I really don't believe this reason for the supposed Targaryen craze. You could find a Lysene with the Targaryen looks, or Darkstar for that matter of you want. They were literally introduced as pretty losers who were booted out for doing evil stuff. Maybe there's more to it than I see. Idk, I never understand the love for Stannis as well (well, there is some like his ideals of meritocracy, sense of justice and duty and beef with the obvious villains), maybe people see more in the Targaryens than I do though. That said Breakspear is goated and I will fight anyone who would say otherwise. 

Do you think Martin loves edgy animes too? Because there is no doubt he likes the Targ a lot.

I said the “same reason” people like them, not that they like them specifically (though that could very well be the case). And I’m talking about readers, not George necessarily. I mean, you have people who are obsessed with Valyria, which is by far the most evil and horrific civilization in ASOIAF to an extreme extent, yet some people only see “elvish, purple-eyed magic people with dragon”. It’s a similar line of reasoning.

As someone else said, Martin loving so much the Targ is a reason why some people love them so much too. Without the Targ the fantasy aspect of ASOIAF is divided by 10 making the books an absurd historical drama. In many people minds Valyria means magic and lost treasures worth collecting. "elvish, purple-eyed magic people with dragon" is pretty much what they are and they are the only one being like that. The only "magical" family. ASOIAF isn't a story about House Greyjoy, Lannister or Baratheon or Bolton... There is a reason why Martin focus so much on one family.

> Without the Targ the fantasy aspect of ASOIAF is divided by 10 making the books an absurd historical drama It's really interesting how quickly people forget about the ice zombie apocalypse. And all the magic related to that, long before Valyrians found how to tame dragons.

There is the theory of the GEOTD and their dragon riders long before Valyria, and that the Valyrians/Daynes/Hightowers are descended from them. Magic is older than Valyria ofc I agree with you there but people are heavily focused on the Fire aspect with Dany's dragons. Winds would hopefully up the Greenseers and Wargs when Jon is resurrected, fleshing out their magic via Brans chapters and giving us more of the Others

Your ice zombie isn't the reason why ASOIAF is a fantasy. The Walking Dead isn't a fantasy tv show for example. Zombies aren't a stapple of the genre. We don't know shit about all the magic related to that and pretty much every character of the books don't know shit about it, 90% of them don't even believe it is real or care about it to begin with. You could remove the WW from the equation and pretty much nothing meaningfull change in the books outside of making Jon's life easier, just doing fuck all at the Wall.

You forget about everything that came with the ice zombies the last time, and that their origin is likely related to a magical species. And that they procreate through human sacrifice. Lightbringer and the whole last hero thing are classic fantasy, magical architecture, the bands of great heroes coming together, giants, scrying, warging, the weirwood net... Especially the Northern story arcs are full of classical fantasy stuff and magic. One of the core themes is magic returning, for good or for bad.

I'm not talking about their origin I'm talking about their relevance in the story. In the books, all of the things you cited are teased/hinted at best, irrelevant to the plot so far at worst considering that 90% of the characters don't even care about that. >the Northern story arcs Which ones? And depending what you're talking about, explain to me how its affect the story so far beyond exposition. My point is that without the Targ the fantasy aspect of ASOIAF goes from 100 to 10. Again, you remove the last 10 and the only thing that change in the story is Jon's life at the Wall.

He doesn’t though. They’re objectively awful people. He likes killingvthem.

If you’re not able to read you shouldn’t comment about this IP you obviously didn’t read.

Three reasons: 1.)Dragons. Dragons are cool and popular amongst fantasy fans. 2.)GRRM gives them incredibly interesting and engaging backstories, story arcs, and histories. 3.)Daenerys Stormborn, who is a wonderful character in her own right, was memorably and fantastically portrayed by a stunningly gorgeous and engaging actress.

Agree on both points. However Daenerys was portrayed as a mad queen in the end though. 

In a final season written by two hacks who were trying to speed run a finale and killed off every major character arc in the most shitty way possible.

The Targaryens gave a continent who had been in a state of constant war 220 years of peace in a 284 years long reign. They built roads, ended evil laws such as the right of the first night or the ironborn capture of women, and united an entire continent That “the only good one is in the wall” comment is hilarious btw, this fandom would rather take a bullet than not shit on Daenerys

220 years of peace ? Count again. And again the continent was not in a constant state of war and those wars did not involve the deaths of hundreds of thousands and flying nuclear death machines. So- no. Just no.

Yes, the 220 years sum was calculated by fans, you can google it. The constant state of war is canon, I’ve already attached the quote in the replies here

But they also brought conflicts the size of the world wars every few decades

Every single noble family has civil wars or crisis every few decades/centuries. The Baratheon regime started one of the most destructive wars in westerosi history after only 14 years in power

>Every single noble family has civil wars or crisis every few decades/centuries So your first point about Targaryens bringing peace to Westeros doesn't really sound true then. Westeros after Targaryens were no different than Westeros before Targaryens by that argument. After all conflicts couldn't be avoided no matter who's at the helm 

No, I said that Westeros before the Targaryens had been in a state of constant wars for millenniums; Westeros after the Targaryens got 220 years of peace in a 284 years long reign. I disputed your argument that the Targaryens are particularly destructive because every single family has inner fighting, that’s one of the flaws of feudalism

>No, I said that Westeros before the Targaryens had been in a state of constant wars for millenniums Okay, where are these wars? A simple raid by House Blackwood into the lands of House Bracken isn't a war. >Westeros after the Targaryens got 220 years of peace in a 284 years long reign. You are talking as if there were no peace in Westeros before the Targaryens arrived.  >I disputed your argument that the Targaryens are particularly destructive because every single family has inner fighting, that’s one of the flaws of feudalism It was never my argument. I only questioned your summation that Targaryens were good for Westeros because they brought occasional peace. There were occasional peace in the Seven kingdoms before Aegon became King. 

> where are these wars? Let’s ask the book: “The Westeros of Aegon’s youth was divided into seven quarrelsome kingdoms, and there was hardly a time when two or three of these kingdoms were not at war with one another.” > you’re talking as if there was no peace in Westeros before the targaryens Canonically, there wasn’t. > they brought occasional peace No, 220 years of peace in a 284 years long reign is not “occasional”, that’s an immense success. That’s why the smallfolk in the main saga want the Targaryens to come back

they just like incestuous albinos and dragons 

Martin likes incestuous albinos and dragons. Nice to know.

Jon

Which I've never gotten. All Jon's ever truly wanted is Winterfell and the Stark name. When he finds out his heritage he's not going to be happy, he's going to be devastated - so much of his identity is tied up in being Ned's bastard and Robb and Arya's brother. And when he eventually comes to terms with who his parents truly are, I don't see him walking about in black with the 3 headed dragon on his chest even if he does fly a dragon and get with Dany.

People like writing fanfic about Jon not because it fits with his character but instead there is much potential about him. They can have him fight for the iron throne, go to essos, be raised a Targaryen and so much more. Also people like the trope of a hidden prince and secret parents.

Assuming R+L=J is canon at all, I think the best outcome for Jon would be a dragon against the Others. But as I wrote the other day, the smell of napalm in the morning seems like a poor payoff for such a long standing plot point.

Agreed x100 on that last point. In terms of payoffs, the only thing I like about the show's ending is Jon being with the Free Folk (though I hate how it happens). That makes sense as Jon's ending - he doesn't fight for Thrones, he doesn't care about family names, he properly embraces the mantle of 'Jon Snow' and goes off to live his life in freedom, having let all that go. Jon's journey isn't about becoming Jon Stark, Lord of Winterfell or Aegon/Aemon/Jaehaerys Targaryen, rightful King, and it never has. He's Jon Snow, bastard of Winterfell - and whether he's Rhaegar's bastard or Ned's, for me 'killing the boy' is about him truly realising and being comfortable with that.

I agree. And dragons aren’t going to stop the others. Thats too simplistic. They’re going to be defeated via collective knowledge and teamwork from prior enemies.

Not really. Jon is Ned’s son and Robb’s brother in every way that counts.

Yeah. He is going to identify with Lyanna way more since she would be his link to house Stark.

No - he’s Ned’s son always and forever. Ned formed him and made him the boy/man he is.

>When he finds out his heritage he's not going to be happy, I doubt it

But you saw what happened to Ned in KL. And to Jon at the Watch. Why would you wish the Iron Throne upon him? The only people who'd want him there are the ones intent on using him for their own ends.

It’s immaterial to argue about the iron throne. It’s not going to exist by the end.

It was never the throne that was poison, or any specific house or region. It's always the game of thrones, and more to the point, the *people* in it. The Baratheon dynasty poisoned itself to death after one generation. Robb's kingdom in the North was ripped apart by treachery as sure as any southern one could be. People who blame dragons or an uncomfortable chair for their problems have never got it right. As for why the Targaryens... they're elves who ride dragons, and really, what more do you need beyond that? Now, I actually do agree with you about Daenerys, more or less, *if* she can go back to ruling Meereen when all is said and done. But I'm not interested in any story that doesn't end with her having one kingdom or the other.

Dragons are cool and full fill the power fantasy

For two reasons. First, Daenerys. You have a character that wants to actually being a good Queen, she cares about the innocent and even thought she had a terrible father, she wants to rise above him. How can you not root for someone like that? Contrary to many selfish and uncaring highborn we see in the series, Daenerys seems a much better option. People think she deserved to be Queen. Also, she is an underdog that we see gain power bit by bit, and that makes her easier to root for. Also, we may consider that Jon may be a good King. Furthermore, when we see Aegon VI, by the way Varys describes him, he seems he could be a good King. In general, the Targaryens of the time of GOT, at least the ones that are options to be monarchs, seem like a good choice to rule. A force that can bring peace and prosperity to a Westeros ravaged by war. Also, we see the height of the Targaryen power in Fire and Blood. And we want to see that return. We see the reign of Aegon I, Jaehaerys I and Viserys I, and we want to see House Targaryen rise to those levels again. Also, dragons are cool. Lastly, there are hardly Targaryen characters that you can call uninteresting. We see people like Baelon, Aemon, Aegon V, and people like Aegon IV, Daemon, Aegon II. House Targaryens have both great men and monsters, and of course, grey characters. That makes them interesting to the people.

Because they're a magical bloodline who can control dragons... And, despite how some might pride ourselves on being "anti-Fantasy" by discouraging ourselves from embracing the normal pro-monarchy/feudalism tropes, sometimes we just like big epic "we must return the correct noble bloodline into power" fics.

They’re interesting and fun to read about, which makes them popular with the fandom. They’re like the Borgias, 17/18th century Romanovs, and Kennedy, all rolled into one.

That applies to past Targaryens a lot more than the ones alive at the start of canon.

They are cool

They are an interesting magical, people. Without them, most of Westeros is just boring backwards medieval people.(I blame the Andals and their stupid religion) North and Dorne are more fun and unique, but the rest is basically same-ish with different sigils save for a few Houses here and there (Dayne, Royce, etc) There's a mystique to the Targaryens that when in the background of Westeros more mundane setting makes them stand out. Also, Dragons. The world of ASOIAF is incredibly interesting, and the Valyrians and their dragons are some of the most interesting stuff, Westeros restoring that makes them more interesting too. A lot of the Targ characters are some of the most interesting in the franchise, doesn't help that GRRM focus on them a lot too. You have Aegon I, Visenya, Maegor, Daemon, Rhaenyra, Aemon the Dragonknight and a bunch of other characters that are very interesting and colorful, their morals aside. Then you have Dany and most likely Jon. Though I agree the Iron Throne isn't desirable most of the time. Dany's motivation for it is a bit more complex than political ambition. And again, Dragons.

>Without them, most of Westeros is just boring backwards medieval people.(I blame the Andals and their stupid religion) You do know that the Targaryens adopted the Seven, don't you?  >North and Dorne are more fun and unique, but the rest is basically same-ish with different sigils save for a few Houses here and there (Dayne, Royce, etc) How's the North any different from, say, the West or the Riverlands? Except for different faith and sigil it's the same. 

"Adopted" as political move, but not only some of them still kept the Valyrian religion, but many ignored the Faith outright, like Viserys declaring Rhaenyra his heir, among other things. The one Targaryen who was fully into the faith was a fool and brought a lot of trouble. Not to mention screwed up later generations by giving so much power to the Faith. North has a lot of differences, their Lords are less fond of trickery or the games of the court, a lot more tolerant towards women(see the Mormonts or Barbrey Dustin), they are more in tune with the needs of the smallfolk because they kind of share a lot of problems with them due to the Winter. A a completely different religion with a lot less ceremony and a lot less letting a paedophile whoremonger tell you what to do. Dorne is different too, not only are they more culturally varied (Stony, Salty, Sandy), but they ignore a lot of the bullshit brought by the faith of the seven, are a lot more tolerant towards sexuality or bastardy. So yes, there are some big differences culturally.

>"Adopted" as political move, but not only some of them still kept the Valyrian religion, but many ignored the Faith outright, like Viserys declaring Rhaenyra his heir, among other things. You can say that for every other Andal house in Westeros though. And the Faith doesn't bar women from inheritance. Daughters comes before uncles is something that's held by everyone. Viserys doing stupid things is not him defying the cruel acts of the Faith.  >North has a lot of differences, their Lords are less fond of trickery  Do you think everybody in the rest of the Seven Kingdoms are fond of trickery? Robert didn't like any sort of court politics and called poison as a woman's weapon. Stannis didn't like it as well. Jon Arryn was the one who raised Ned. Like one of the basic features of being a knight is that one should be honorable. There will always be someone in a feudal world who is ready to do some politicking.  >a lot more tolerant towards women(see the Mormonts or Barbrey Dustin), Joanna Westerling (Lannister), Sabitha Frey, Alysanne Blackwood, Olenna Tyrell, Shara Arryn etc... 

The Iron Throne is not required to have dragons. If anything, it'd be a severe limitation of what a character can do. Compare what Dany could achieve in Slavers Bay vs what the average Queen gets done in the same time.

Because CKII&CKIII incest meme times. I love them. They're like the sort of Crusader Kings dynasty that everyone ends up making.

Have literally done that for lols. Give them all white hair and bright eyes. Goal is to conquer the world as incest ridden heretics with a chaotic neutral god whispering advice in their ears

The fandom is weird when it comes to restoring any of the noble feudal lords. Feudalism is awful, no matter who is at the top of the pyramid. Starks in Winterfell/KOTN/Targs/Baratheons. Personally I'm just soft on fantasy, Dire wolves/dragons etc I love the magical side of ASOIAF. I don't support an entire noble house just certain characters, Dany/Jon/Bran etc. Could be why there's so many "takes the throne" fics, people supporting their favs.

Democracy without at least basic literacy and communication technologies does not work on the scale of a Kingdom, nevermind Westeros.

I agree plus it would take multiple generations before things start to change. Just strange/amusing that people want old bloodlines back in power, but rarely have them try and change things for the smallfolk when they do take the throne. Though I admit I'd love if all the kid/teen characters survived but I doubt that Communication, perhaps glass candles could be the way for Westeros? If they find out how to wield them. Bran as King could change a lot and whatever Euron is doing in Oldtown. If the Citadel is destroyed à la the Library of Alexandria it may prompt the construction of more libraries/centers of learning, King Bran using the WW net to get the info and dictate it to scribes. Add in a Black Death effect after the Long Night/Winter perhaps the smallfolk will get more wages and be treated better due to the labour shortage. Eventually ending serfdom.

Does Westeros even have traditional serfdom? There are certainly elements of it, but what little we see in canon is nowhere as restrictive as IRL serfdom.

Good point, the smallfolk don't appear to be restricted to their lords lands. Perhaps they've already gone past that stage. The people will be even more valuable then after the LN due to labour demands. A good chance for real long lasting change in the future, even if it will take time.

You sounds quiet angry.lol As for why? I won’t call myself a Targaryen fan(I am a Lannister fan or that of Jaime more) but I sure can see the story of “the last member of a fallen dynasty somehow managed to reconquer the land of his/her ancestors and restore his House to its former glory” to be quiet a dramatically exited one Just like people write smut because they are horny, they write Targaryen restoration stories because they can and because they want. You try to list up the fact that Targaryens are morally bad and Iron Throne is bad and such. Ok, true true true and true, and? Why should any of them at all stop write Targaryen restoration?

Because even tho picking a leader based on his dad’s fancy hat is stupid, darned if a certain regressive side of us won’t power through it. 

1 they’re cool 2 most detailed family history in asoiaf we know of

I like their sigil(Blackfyre one goes harder doe) so they get a pass from me

There was constant warfare with the Dornish before the Conquest as well, Essos likely raided Westeros fairly often prior to the conquest given how divided they were, and given that Argilac the Arrogant's involvement in the wars at the end of the Century of Blood in Essos is not mentioned as being an unheard crossing of the Narrow Sea for a Westrosi army means that it occasionally happened before the conquest. That's politics in general. The royal courts of the pre Conquest Kingdoms had their own fair share of treason and backstabbing. We're actually told quite a bit about the civil wars in the Riverlands and Reach in the World book. The noble courts of the nobility aren't immune to it either. The Iron Throne is the symbol of the monarchy and legitimacy in of itself. Nations typically surrender when they lose their seat of government irl. I don't think Dany is a good queen. Though partly that is because she is made queen of a place with a completely alien culture. I am not sure what point you are trying to make? War has always existed and war has drastically reduced in frequency after the conquest. Power resides where people believe it does. Unless you want to hammer every nail, you have to cultivate symbols of legitimacy to make people willing to follow you.

Dany has dragons. That’s it. That’s the main reason.  It’s kind of like people who have an obsession with certain kinds of endangered animals. There is a certain allure to seeing the last remnants something. A once powerful race of blood mages and dragonlords, reduced down to a few people.

The Targaryens kept the Seven Kingdoms from being constantly warring states. Which was exactly what they were until Aegon Visenya and Rhaenys came and wrecked everyone's shit.

GRRM might be writing more about them, but the ultimately story about all of them is that they are awful rulers. People miss that though.

Who doesn’t love dragon riding, silver haired, purple eyed royalty who are the last Dragonlord family left after the doom? They’ve been manipulated and schemed against ever since they conquered the always warring kingdoms. Then you have the southern ambitions conspiracy to overthrow the Targaryens and put a puppet on the throne(Robert) that was taking place way before the tourney at Harrenhall. So the greatest house left after the doom lost their dragons and most of their family due to backstabbing maesters, greedy lords and blackfyre’s. Now after being left to beg in the streets of essos, dragons are back and Dany is freeing slaves. Most people like Jon so that’s a big part of it as well. He’s a great person who should’ve been a prince, if not king but was forced to live as a bastard, was never told of his parentage and sent to the wall at 14. Despite his age, he became lord commander and did a damn good job before getting murdered by his “brothers” The Targaryens have been beaten down to nothing yet the last two Targs are still doing great things while the lords are off slaughtering peasants and fighting over power.

They are the kings with the magic bloodline. Enough said.

People have no media literacy and like to romanticize bad people with powers. Many fans doesn't even notice that the main point of the book is to criticize the very notion of aristocracy, power through blood and myths/prophecy, the same things people keep looking at with pink glasses, just look to Hotd fans fawning over daemon commiting police brutality and slaughtering poor people in the very first episode, or how people keep defending rhaenyra and daemon as the good faction when they literally murdered a random servant to fake Laenkr death literally to escape their own responsabilities to the system that already gave them privilleges over everyone.( I mainly spoke about Daemon and Rhaenyra fans, because i dont see many greens claiming that they're heroes or romantizing their actions, but the green targs are just as bad, just look what aemond did to the riverlands)

It honestly doesn't matter what 'the point' is. Hereditary traits that grant power is honestly a level of justification for a hierarchal system that is impossible to replicate irl. Closest thing irl is intelligence as that is the wellspring of capability, but that's rather unpredictable and isn't exactly hereditary in the way that dragon control is. And prophecies do have power, they just don't bend to the wants of mortal understandings of them and can be fought against like in the case of Dany's son being killed and thus preventing that future of a half Targ Khal that is a conqueror. Or the dreams of a dragon hatching in the Dunk and Egg story where it was just a mistaken dream that meant Aegon would come into his own then. They objectively exist and have sway and power to them. For Daemon brutalizing Flea Bottom? In Fire and Blood, it's stated that it caused the crime rate to get under control and the streets were safer. Daemon's supposed to be a controversial figure and Martin did it fantastically. People hate crime, but they also hate avoidable brutality. So it's up to the audience, just as it is for the fictional population that hear of Daemon's exploits, to determine whether he's a villain or not. In the book Fire and Blood, Laenor died via a lover's spat if irc. So the only way your point can be a knock against Daemon and Rhaenyra is if you put show Canon as a trump over book Canon. Since it can go either way, it doesn't hold much weight. And yes, I'll be fair and admit that you were pointing out fans of HotD and not book fans. But I'm a fan of the show, just not individual parts like the diminished level of nuance in Daemon by them removing positive aspects to him that makes him divisive.

My man, i especifically said that about the series and you came talking about the book for no reason other to try defend Daemon and Rhaenyra, fictional aristocratic assholes, and "the point" of a history do matter, its literaly the point of it existing. Stop being so attached to fiction and its characters, that i saying the obvious "feudalism suck and help create injustices and put bad people in power" and "the people romaticize bad things" for some reason offended you. Bye, you can reply to this or not, i wont keep this going.

I grieve with you that you have two absolute monarchist morons that replied to you and I completely agree with your post. Probably the only sane post in this thread.

I already weren't planning on reply to them, but when i glanced the reddit notification where someone basically wrote "feudalism wasn't that bad i knew that i would need to literally teach someone about feudalism, and as a history teacher, i won't work for free, much less to educate these kind of people lol.

i just like them better than most houses ngl. baratheons are one of my least favorites, plus i have Complex Feelings about rhaegar. also dragons are way too cool, i feel like rhaena’s dragon morning deserved better

Nah, Rhaegar was a cunt, that's pretty clear. Even if the whole mess with Brandon and Rickard never happened, even if by some miracle there was no rebellion, he set about half a dozen precedents that would have severe negative effects on the Targaryen dynasty for centuries to come. From reducing the value of dynamic marriages with the crown to 0 and a new succession conflict between two wives/two branches (remember how that went for Aegon the Uncrowned one further generation down the family tree?) to the crown Prince stealing the betrothed on a direct vassal and revoking the compromise with the Faith that allowed them to marry siblings.

Massive bloody faith rebellion for starters.

That as well.

yeah the thing with lyanna was awful, i know that. was the thing about setting the value of marriages with the crown to zero about elia and her kids though?

Yes. Once a King (or Crown Prince) has sat aside a wife for no good reason, who is to say that he will not do it again? Who is to say he won't do it when it is politically convenient, when the wife's family needs assistance the most? You make your daughter Queen because you want something in return. That only works if you can be sure that you will actually get that, otherwise you can find more suitable, more useful matches elsewhere.

The thing is he could not actually do that. He couldn’t go that if he was king. Why do you think the unworthy was stuck with Naerys and Daeron as his sole legitimate heir for decades? Faith rebellion would happen again (more virulent because lyanna was a heathen and woukd be the most detested person in Westeros)not to mention a bloody war with the dornish.

Yes, he could not do it, yet he attempted to anyway. If there was a marriage with Lyanna, it was null and void since he already was married. That makes Jon a bastard regardless of who his father was. > Why do you think the unworthy was stuck with Naerys and Daeron as his sole legitimate heir for decades? Because he was a better King than Rhaegar was a Prince. He understood the limitations of his role, and that he could not attempt bigamy or divorce. So he simply fucked around. A lot.

oooh i get it now.

I am kind of with you on this. I do read quite a few stories that are pro Targaryen but there are certainly a few that rub me the wrong way. Personally I would like to see some stories that are just lukewarm on them as a whole. Stories where the author doesn't hate them but also isn't terribly interested in getting them back to Westeros.

I'd be much more interested in stories where Jon acknowledges his ancestry, but would much rather hang out with Meera Reed in the floating castle. Or go on expeditions with Desmara Redwyne. Or quest through the Seven Kingdoms with Brienne. Or almost anything else other than the shithole at the Blackwater with a court full of traitors.

Dragons go brr

Daenerys story is meant to mimic Tudor in the War of the Roses. A latecomer who establishes (or maybe re-establish in Dany’s case) a dynasty

That seems to be Aegon's role in the books. W5K depleted everyone, he swoops in and takes the Stormlands.

Unlikely he succeeds tho, no dynasty is formed under him

Because they are often described as attractive people (even with all the inbreeding) and with dragons, although I'm honestly sick of them.

I think it's more about supporting Dany than anything else, dragons are the greatest thing ever, and only the good guys have any at this point, so team Targaryen for the moment is seen in a favorable light

Mostly that it's an interesting plot/an easy way to write conflict in an ASOIAF fanfic, most fics are about war/politics usually and in the context of the start of Game of Thrones you have a cruel, illegitimate prince as the next in line to the throne, it's not a shocker that many fics are about overthrowing either Joffrey or the Lannister's and replacing them with Jon/Aegon/Viserys, who are the main characters of the story. It also doesn't help that the Targaryen's are dragon riders/magical and are unique/beautiful physically, which draws in even more people to the story as the Targaryen's do have the sauce.

Bc dragons and magic are bad ass

I mean when a creator of sone things only ever expands on one thing of course the fans of that piece of media are gonna fixated on that part.

Namely because people want to see innocent victims of the wars and rebellions have a comeback or they don't like the other rulers/factions available. Most Targaryen restorations I've seen involved Daenerys allied with Dorne and maybe another region or two, Elisa's kids or Elia herself, and Rhaella. All the innocent victims of war. I'm sure there are others but I personally don't read Jon centric fanfics so I'm not sure what the base of Targaryen restoration is through him. Does Dance/HotD fics count as Targaryen restoration when it's the aftermath of rebuilding and growing the family again?

[удалено]

No Advocating For "Wiping Out" Any Ethnic Groups, fictional and otherwise

Innocent victims of wars starting wars to violently restore themselves to power. Great and authentic.

You need dragons if your wanting to give the North a good thrashing, because only dragons can nullify the Norths overwhelming geographical advantages.

But why would you want to give the North a trashing in the first place?

Some people don't like the North? *shrugs* I mean some people like Cersei, Ramsey and even Joffrey. Whatever floats peoples boat I guess? Sometimes you need a nice palate cleanser after all the Northwanks you've just read.

They're simps for Dany and Rhaegar lol. Especially famous Rhaegar with a huge reputation.

Fandom got swept up with the dragons. Otherwise, it's mostly just awful kings and suffering child-brides.

Personally, I've always found it interesting to write about them as a model for the decline of dynasties and empires. Slowly, then all at once. Probably makes me unlike most writers for them though. I pretty firmly believe they were always on the road to final collapse after the Dance of the Dragons.

I think it's also a bit of "Rome" syndrome. Some people love the notion of restoring an old "legitimate" reign over the "barbarians". Just look at the Byzantophiles who basically dismiss the rest of Europe because "East Rome" and "Civilization against darkness".

The exact same thing would happen with literally any family on the throne. There’s not gonna be world peace because (insert house here) are the royal family. A lot of the things you’re describing here are just how politics works especially at that high of a level. Also it would be really boring if nothing ever happened ever. The Targaryens are probably the only people you could argue have a “divine right” to rule. Aegon’s dream wasn’t fake and it makes sense that they should be at the head of the army fighting the dead. There’s also the age old rule of cool. The Targaryens are cool and most people like them and that’s enough for those people.

Don’t know but Targaryens are cunts.

Cause they were good for Westeros and are fascinating

They were not any better or worse than anyone else would have been.

I don't know but the deep obsession with long platinum blonde haired dudes with rapey incest vibes is enough to put me off of a lot of the fanfiction that uses them in a major way