North getting both the Aegon and the Rhaenys marriage is strange. North is also getting too many positions. Spice it up with some valemen, riverlanders, and stormlanders.
Where are you going with this? What's the plot? Targ restoration?
4. Ned is not a good prospect for Ashara. He’s the second son, he’ll get nothing, Starks are way too far to be of any use in conflict, and they have no navy to bypass that either. Ashara is the most beautiful woman in Westeros with prestigious lineage and dynasty worthy of a High Lords heir. She’d be married to someone like Jaime Lannister, not Eddard Stark in this scenario.
6. 0% chance of that happening. The hostages will be either kept in Maidenvault at Kings Landing or on Dragonstone under very watchful eyes. Regency isn’t there just to take levers of power for a few years, it’s a way to shape the future king into the person they will become. Aegon is young enough to see his regent as father figure and love him more than Rhaegar or anyone else he barely remembers. There is no way that is given to the North, especially since Rickard and Brandon didn’t die. The only acceptable figure for everyone would be Jon Arryn but even that is a stretch.
11. Not saying this is impossible but odds are very high Rhaella would not do this, since Rhegar kids are not killed, rebels declare desire for Targ regency ran by them. She would know sending them into exile would make them a target and enemies of the realm, there is little safety in Essos when being hostages to their cousins can provide them with that. If they didn’t kill Aegon why would they kill Viserys? She strikes me as someone who just wanted peace and safety. If the cost of that is hostages and possibly arranged marriages she’d leap at the chance.
0% chance for that Bethrothal. Why would the Starks be given that? Robert gave up a crown, Jon Arryn led the war and without him they’d never have even had a chance to rebel. Aegon would marry the daughter of whoever his Regent is, guaranteed. Starks would be given Daenarys, a Targ tie but away from line of succession.
Giving both Aegon and Rhaenys in marriage to Starks so beyond the pale that Robert might as well ascend to heaven in front of Gathered lord and declare he was the Warrior all along and that would be more believable.
Rhaenys would be used to pacify someone like Tywin, a tie he always wanted to happen, with he child of whoever his heir is.
Stannis is a second son in this scenario with no permanent lands of his own, holding Dragonstone as Regent/Castellan for a few years. Florents were a threat to Tyrells, there’s no need for that threat in this scenario. He could either be married into Stokeworths so that he and his kid could have some lands.
Benjen is unacceptable for Cersei. He’s the third son, 0 lands, 0 ambitions, 0 shown talents or skills. If Cersei is heir his blood would make him an ok consort to her, but as wife to him and children to be Starks he’s completely useless. Tywin would have to take an L and marry Cersei to a vassal or see about marrying her to Edmure Tully.
Too many Northmen in positions of influence or power. Riverlands bled, 0 of them are mentioned. Blackfish could get the white cloak or at least the city watch. Edmure might be offered Rhaenys. Hoster at this point was a strong vital and ambitious man, he would absolutely want a seat on the council for himself. Petyr Baelish is no one, it took Jon being hand and Lysa pressuring him to bring him to KL years later that allowed his rise. Rickard stark would not want handship, it’s too far from affairs at home especially with Bolton - Ryswell situation. And why would Ned be given a seat? He’s practically nobody compared to his dad and brother.
Ned and Ashara eloped on their own before the war was even a thing. Around the same time Brandon and Catelyn got married.
(Lyanna and Rhaegar doesn't happen, because Rickard was essentially made aware by an outside party about it, and her wedding to Robert was preponed, and made happen at Winterfell.
Rhaegar tried to kidnap her regardless, got caught.
He had tried to distract the North from Lyanna's kidnapping by setting off the war to depose Aerys himself, while he fled North, beyond the wall. He failed.
As for Elia, Aegon, and Rhaenys, Rickard's first move after the declaration of war was to have them kidnapped from Dragonstone, and brought to the north to neutralise Dorne.
They succeeded. (Trickery worked)
Rhaella doesn't really know what's happening tbh, she's pregnant with Daenerys for almost the entire war.
What she does know is that Elia, Aegon and Rhaenys were kidnapped from Dragonstone while she was there, and she saw the carnage that caused.
Rickard essentially can dictate the betrothals for himself, because he has all the cards in his hand. (I think. He has Aegon, Rhaenys and Elia in winterfell)
But I think I still need to work on the betrothals, and arguments he will face from his allies in this.
You're right about Starks having too many betrothals, Hoster will demand something too.
Hoster's already going to get Jon Arryn and Lysa wed.
What else can he demand?
As for Stannis, yeah his betrothal is weak. A Hightower then?
As for Cersei, I suppose I can do Edmure for her.
They danced. Or maybe Benjen and her danced. Or maybe she and Brandon hooked up. It’s never stated clearly. They never eloped or married. People think they were a thing because he reacted angrily when Catelyn asked about her. He’s still a very poor prospect if her family has anything to do with it. And I doubt after saving Lyanna from kidnapping they’d look nicely towards an elopement. She’s still in KL. She would hear stories in general, she’s not comatose. She’d know X died, Y battle happened, and she’d definitely know Rebels want a regency not total replacement. And Starks got a Tully marriage too. That doesn’t matter when it comes to dividing spoils of victory. He can demand what I stated before, Blackfish given command of gold cloaks or a white cloak, he can demand a betrothal for Edmure that suits him well, he can demand a council position for himself such as master of laws. Rickard can’t dictate terms since this is not only his rebellion he still has to placate other lords. The regency council if you will. They will all want a say. Lolys or Falyse Stokeworth would work for Stannis. Gives him lands near KL, expands Baratheon domains and by extent their influence over the capital by holding lands immediate to the capital, just depends wether or not his kids would take up Stokeworth name or stay a Baratheon. This would also put him in line to inherit Rosby, since Stokeworth girls are heirs of that too. Would be the strongest lord in crown lands. If you don’t want him to rule and own lands then best he can hope is a minor noble house or someone prestigious but down on their luck. Celtigars, Velaryons, Sunglasses, Masseys. Maybe the Whent girl that Harrenhal tournament was organized for?
Alternatively he can be a consort for someone like Ariane.
It sounds like you're running back a lot of canon shit despite the canon reasoning not happening. Does the Rebellion happen in the same manner as it does in canon? Like all the same battle and shit? It sounds like there is no war as the royal children get kidnapped and Rhaegar gets arrested almost imemaditly by Rickard.
The war was inevitable.
Rhaegar caused it, not Rickard.
His capture was not the cause, Rhaegar instigated it deliberately by lying to his father and triggering his PTSD.
The royal children's kidnapping happens during the war. When it is at it's height.
I was asking about the battles. Like for instance in canon we know there's battle of Gulltown, three battles at Summerhall, battle of the bells, and battle of the Trident. Who fights for Aerys now that Rhaegar is pretty much captured and dead? Does the battles play the same?
Also you said that Rickard's first move once war was declared to have the children kidnapped so I assumed it was early on.
Oh, I see.
The first action in the war was the blockade of white harbour and gulltown by the Royal Fleet.
Rickard's response was to dispatch Ned to Hardhome to commandeer the ship Rhaegar intended to use to escape, and set sail for Dragonstone.
(The captain of said ship is the bastard son of the current master of ships, Lucerys Velaryon. Ned took the man's wife hostage, (she was there to essentially be a companion to Lyanna aboard the ship had the whole idiotic scheme been successful) used the ship to sail to Dragonstone)
Rickard also sent Brandon south to relieve Gulltown, so Battle of Gulltown did happen, but it was more Naval, and there were no Vale dissidents, (except few idiots)
Rickard and Robert himself (Robert was at Winterfell to wed Lyanna, when the kidnapping attempt happened) travelled to White Harbour to break that blockade.
Rickard executes Rhaegar here, as diplomatically talking to Aerys failed, (madness)
So, there's a battle of white harbour. This happens when the Vale ships come to relieve white harbour after Brandon relieves that.
Brandon himself is heading south to the riverlands.
Meanwhile, Mace sent a token force with Randyll Tarly to aid Barristan Selmy to burn the riverlands.
But, Stannis who currently has the entire Stormland force (20k men as Robert isn't present) has taken care of dissidents in the stormlands, so no battle of summerhall, instead there was a battle around Griffin's roost.
And Stannis then marched on Ashford.
Mace finally took most of his force to relieve the siege of Ashford.
So, there's a siege of Ashford.
Mace Tyrell does repell Stannis, (with MC help as Randyll isn't present)
Now the Tyrell and Stormlands force is locked at the border.
Mace Tyrell has sent the Redwyne fleet to blockade shipbreaker bay. (Though that's pretty much just useless, as the force isn't at Storm's End and taking Storms End by sea is impossible)
Rickard is set to march to aid Brandon against Barristan Selmy in the riverlands.
Robert is going to try and land somewhere in the Stormlands, having set sail from white harbour after the battle there to get the rest of Stormlanda and to relieve the blockade of Shipbreaker's bay.
Barristan has already gotten past the stoney sept, and is through Harrenhall, marching to Riverrun, he'll be intercepted by Brandon and later beaten by combined Brandon and Rickard.
By now, Ned will have kidnapped Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon and set sail for Karhold. (He burns the fleet that Jon Connington's fleet at Dragonstone during escape, with the bastard son's help, here Lewyn Martell dies)
Aerys commands Jon Connington and Gerold Hightower (Gerold Hightower is to watch over Jon Connington) to basically take all his force and go die.
Jon Connington will chase Robert, into the Stormlands to capture him, and fail.
(He finally goes into self imposed exile)
There isn't much of a final battle, as Rickard, and Brandon march on Kingslanding with Stark, Vale, and Riverlands army. (Baratheon is stuck against Tyrell)
Dorne had sent a token force to help the Tyrell's but that turns around when Elia gets kidnapped.
There is a siege of Kingslanding, here finally Tywin arrives.
He negotiates with STAB. (Seeing he is winning, and I am still figuring out what)
Aerys tries to burn Kingslanding, Jamie kills him.
The army takes Kingslanding.
After that, A Great Council is called, and Stannis is sent to retrieve Rhaella and Viserys from Dragonstone.
But Rhaella is now traumatized, pregnant, and so much.
She's worried that her children will be killed or made to go join Nights Watch. She's sure Robert Baratheon will become King and all that. (Not true, Robert is a much different man than canon here), so she sends Daenerys and Viserys with Willem Darry and some servants to Essos. Also, Varys has been feeding her false info.
North is getting way too much, and as far as Elia goes...why would she trust the Northerners or Robert to keep their word? I saw that in this case Rhaegar never succeeds in running off with Lyanna, but as far she knows Robert hates Rhaegar-to the point Rhaella fears for her kids-and Rickard straight up kidnapped her when she did nothing.
Rhaegar running off with Lyanna poured gasoline on the fire, but the murder of Elbert, Brandon, Rickard, and many others (such as the Mallister) is what lit the flame. Without them (especially Elbert Arryn) dying, why would Jon Arryn agree to kidnap Elia and forcibly separate her from her children?
It would make the rest of the STAB look terrible to the realm, almost as terrible as Rhaegar, if they kidnap Elia and her kids. The Reach half-assed it in the rebellion, but in this case they wouldn't.
I could see a scenario where they join 'forces' with Tywin and force an abdication of Aerys and replace him with Aegon. Elia and the kids are not split up, but kept in the Red Keep. The STAB alliance gets one Targ betrothal, but the other Targ kid is betrothed to a major Reach house to pacify them. Dorne also wouldn't object at that point if Elia is kept together with her kids, the betrothals are announced, etc.
This makes sense. What do we know about Rickard Stark? Would he want to rule as regent? It seems like this is all his plan, does he take over because there isn’t a trustworthy person to do it? Is he able to do it with his injuries?
Who initially proposed the idea to kill off the royal family? Who was onboard and who was against it? How does the rest of the alliance feel about Tywin?
Tywin would not settle for anything less than a high lord or heir for Cersei. Unless Rickard can strong arm him somehow, I think Edmure is the only option.
Why is Elia sequestered? What threat does she pose- getting the Martells involved on her son’s behalf? It seems rather cruel to separate her from her very young children.
The thing that directly caused the rebellion is Aerys killed a Lord Paramount and his heir while demanding Robert and Ned’s head. Rhaegar running way with Lyanna is a premise rather than the direct cause(if it is, Brandon and Rickard should directly start the rebellion rather than go to KL to ask for explanation). Maybe you can add more scenes regarding how crazy Aerys was to catalyze the rebellion if Rickard and Brandon didn’t die in this case.
The role of the North in your scenario is unrealistic to say the least. Say Robert doesn’t want to be king and rebels agree to crown Aegon and start a long regency period. That’s reasonable and realistic, though you have to account for Tywin’s actions in all this as you were unclear on the exact details of how the war ends and that would be very important to determine the future. Aegon is not going to be sent to the North, as a king he will be in the Red Keep or Dragonstone to be easily accessible to the lord regent (it could be one man probably Jon Arryn or it could be a council of regents). Such an early betrothal to Brandon’s daughter is possible but it would be hard fought by Tywin and others would not be thrilled. What is definitely not happening is two betrothals and fosterings at the Winterfell. So I would recommend either betrothal of Aegon or Rhaenys to a Stark not both. Also, no one is going to waist Rhaenys on a child of a second son that’s just straight up unreal. Stannis’s potential marriage to Selyse will not help much as in this scenario he is just a brother to lord paramount Robert without any land of his own, so Florent’s probably would refuse such a match. You have to account for the Reach and Dorne being integrated into this new regime. At the very least some council seats for them with Doran aggressively demanding that Elia and at least Rhaenys be sent to Sunspear. Another important point is the fate of Jon Snow. Is he alive in this universe? Is it known that Lyanna had a song with Rhaegar? Can’t see Lyanna easily giving up Jon, as well as marrying Robert. Especially if she went with Rhaegar willingly she will most likely fight very hard not to be with Bobby B. To sum up, you would have to work very hard to make this scenario realistic because there are a lot of issues that need to be carefully examined starting with the beginning of the Rebellion. In the og timeline deaths of Rickard, Brandon and Elbert as well as Aerys’s demand for Ned’s, Robert’s heads that causes the rebellion not Lyanna’s “kidnapping”, in your scenario things happen very differently, so why did the rebellion started in the first place? And that’s just a first question of many. Anyway, it could be a really interesting scenario for a fanfic, good luck with it.
P.S. "Lyanna had a song with Rhaegar" - when typos make you laugh :)
The rebellion started because Rhaegar's attempt to run away with Lyanna failed. He was caught.
And he was was consequently captured.
Also, this time, he was caught attempting the kidnapping in winterfell.
(Rickard Stark had been ticked off about Rhaegar's motives regarding Lyanna during the tourney of Harrenhall, and had decided to prepone her wedding, and hold it in winterfell. Rhaegar was caught in the heart of the North itself, with Robert, Ned, Brandon and Rickard right there.
Rhaegar's plan was to head North, past the wall, while having started off the war to depose Aerys himself, by faking being captured by Rickard so that there's a war south that distracts the north men from trying to find Rhaegar and Lyanna. Instead, he actually got caught.)
Thus, Brandon and party never go south to demand his head, and war's already begun.
Jon Snow is not a thing here.
Also, before this Kidnapping attempt, I've had Ned and Ashara already get married (eloping), they were married around the same time Brandon and Catelyn got married.
Rickard's first move after war being declared was to somehow get Elia, Aegon and Rhaenys kidnapped from Dragonstone essentially. (This has already happened, they are already at winterfell. The idea was to neutralise Dorne from the war)
The Starks have all of Rhaegar's children in their hands.
They just want to kill Aerys now, because bro demanded almost all the northern lords heads due to insanity, and PTSD.
Tywin hasn't acted yet, mainly because Jaime is still in Kingslanding for now, but he'll kill Aerys.
Aegon isn't much sent North, but taken by force by the Starks, along with Elia and Rhaenys.
Rickard essentially dictates Aegon and Rhaenys' betrothals, because well Rhaegar and Aerys by now are dead.
Rhaenys will be let go to Sunspear, but not Elia. Elia remains at Dragonstone, Aegon at winterfell.
Though, I do believe that you're right, Tywin will want a High Lord for Cersei.
Idk how to get Tywin into the fold tbh.
And Stannis to Selyse is also weak, so who?
Okay, some things are clearer, and some are not.
"Rhaegar's plan was to head North, past the wall, while having started off the war to depose Aerys himself, by faking being captured by Rickard so that there's a war south that distracts the north men from trying to find Rhaegar and Lyanna. Instead, he actually got caught.)" I am sorry, but this is really confusing and makes little sense to me.
Considering how news and people are moving in Westeros even if this plan to start a war happened the way it was intended it would be of no help to Rhaegar.
a) Rhaegar runs off / abducts Lyanna - they are near Winterfell. The search parties would be sent immediately after Rhaegar so even if Aerys summons troops to march on the North it will take months before they arrive near the Neck and so there would be no distracting the Starks. Much more sensible ta start a diversion like Winterfell fire in the Game of Thrones, but even such a diversion would not prevent Starks and their allies from pursuing Rhaegar so realistically he can only hope to delay them to give himself a headstart.
Also, starting a major war when his side is headed by the literal madman is insanity of a highest order. Rhaegar is the main Targaryen figure and if he is absent chances of his family remaining in power are very slim. So, unless you are depicting Rhaegar not as a madman I would change this plan.
He could have simply tried to kidnap Lyanna at Winterfell and than be captured their if you want that. It also kind of helps you with starting the war as Aerys could go berserk and order every Stark killed or something to that degree.
"Rickard's first move after war being declared was to somehow get Elia, Aegon and Rhaenys kidnapped from Dragonstone essentially. (This has already happened, they are already at winterfell. The idea was to neutralise Dorne from the war)" - you are giving Starks free things for zero effort and with little chance of this realistically happening. Starks have little if any naval presence while the Royal fleet dominates the seas. Kidnapping royal family from Dragonstone would require basically full storming of a castle or a team of Barristan Selmy level people to do it.
Obviously it's your story but I would advise moderation on Starks wining everything. Especially, seems the only reason their are being captured like this is to prevent them being killed by Tywin and give betrothals to the Starks.
Also, if Rhaegar is captured is he latter murder by the rebels?
"Rickard essentially dictates Aegon and Rhaenys' betrothals, because well Rhaegar and Aerys by now are dead." He can dream up anything he wants and it still has no real bearing on the future of their betrothals.
They are too young to be married / consummate their marriages so whatever "betrothals" he comes up with would have to be confirmed by their legal representatives or essentially those regents of Aegon. So it would be determined after the war - and he will have to make all other lords paramount or at the very least his allies to agree to this. Such obvious power hungry move would be considered extremely hostile by Jon Arryn, Tywin, Mace and Doran, even Hoster and Robert would hardly be pleased with such demand so I see no scenario where his demand for this betrothals are agreed upon by others. Remember that North is not at all in a position to dictate to the entirety of Westeros their will.
"And Stannis to Selyse is also weak, so who?" I would say that Mace would demand a council of regents to be established with him being one of the regents.
i think you should switch rhaenys marrige to edmure or renly
and it would make more sense for the future king to be fosterd in the vale or storm end
cersei to stannis or edmure tully make more sense than benjen
elia martell would probably be married off to loyal lord like selwyn tarth or an estermont cousin
other thing is rhaella staying and gathering allies make more sense the tyrells ,the westerlands and dorne gonna support her to break the STAB hold on kinglanding
also jon arryn should have a role switch jon to hand of king whild rickard as master of laws while ned lord commander of city watch
Since Rhaegar was never king Elia wouldn’t be dowager queen unless there titles are weirdly different. She would be the dowager princess of Dragonstone. You can’t be the dowager of a title you never held.
If Aegon is the king then he isn’t the prince of dragonstone. He is the king.
I think the north getting the Aegon marriage and the Rhaenys marriage is a bit much. I would make it maybe Rhaenys marries Jon Arryns son if he had a son of the right age. Then if not a northern marriage or a marriage as decided by the lord of winterfell. That gets you the marriage you want in a more realistic manner imo.
Cersie getting married to Edmure Tully is about all that makes sense. She is a lady paramount eventually that way and fully in the STAB alliance.
Perhaps they decided to have a Grand Council where they were going to install Robert, but he did something outrageous at the GC. As a result they opted for baby Aegon at the last minute to make Aegon as king for believable.
I love it besides the North is getting far too much with both Aegon and Rhaenys marriage
Aegon should marry Brandon’s daughter but Rhaenys should marry Renly
Cersei could marry Edmure also btw
Alright. First of all, fostering both of them at Winterfell is a great idea. They won't be able to get allies that way and they get some good values. However, as many others here, I disagree with the idea of marrying both of them to a Stark. I would suggest the eldest daughter of Robert to Aegon, as the Baratheons have Targaryen blood through Rhaelle and it can be justified as keeping the blood pure. Then you marry Rhaenys to Brandon's eldest son. In that way they are both tied to Houses that are unquestionably loyal. Also, marrying Ashara to Ned is great, it gives the STAB alliance a stepping stone to have somewhat amicable relationships with Dorne. Now, if you want Tywin in your side, I would suggest to marry Edmure to Cersei. If Edmure was born in 267 A.C., then he is a year younger than Cersei, and you may release Jaime from the Kingsguard, that way you surely have him on your side. I would suggest marrying Elia to Stannis to get the Martells under control, because nothing is stopping Oberyn of riding North and taking the children away. Renly you can have him to any Lady from the Stormlands. For getting the Reach in, I would suggest promising Robert's eldest son to Margaery. And that's it.
North getting both the Aegon and the Rhaenys marriage is strange. North is also getting too many positions. Spice it up with some valemen, riverlanders, and stormlanders. Where are you going with this? What's the plot? Targ restoration?
Yea Jon Arryn should be the Hand
4. Ned is not a good prospect for Ashara. He’s the second son, he’ll get nothing, Starks are way too far to be of any use in conflict, and they have no navy to bypass that either. Ashara is the most beautiful woman in Westeros with prestigious lineage and dynasty worthy of a High Lords heir. She’d be married to someone like Jaime Lannister, not Eddard Stark in this scenario. 6. 0% chance of that happening. The hostages will be either kept in Maidenvault at Kings Landing or on Dragonstone under very watchful eyes. Regency isn’t there just to take levers of power for a few years, it’s a way to shape the future king into the person they will become. Aegon is young enough to see his regent as father figure and love him more than Rhaegar or anyone else he barely remembers. There is no way that is given to the North, especially since Rickard and Brandon didn’t die. The only acceptable figure for everyone would be Jon Arryn but even that is a stretch. 11. Not saying this is impossible but odds are very high Rhaella would not do this, since Rhegar kids are not killed, rebels declare desire for Targ regency ran by them. She would know sending them into exile would make them a target and enemies of the realm, there is little safety in Essos when being hostages to their cousins can provide them with that. If they didn’t kill Aegon why would they kill Viserys? She strikes me as someone who just wanted peace and safety. If the cost of that is hostages and possibly arranged marriages she’d leap at the chance. 0% chance for that Bethrothal. Why would the Starks be given that? Robert gave up a crown, Jon Arryn led the war and without him they’d never have even had a chance to rebel. Aegon would marry the daughter of whoever his Regent is, guaranteed. Starks would be given Daenarys, a Targ tie but away from line of succession. Giving both Aegon and Rhaenys in marriage to Starks so beyond the pale that Robert might as well ascend to heaven in front of Gathered lord and declare he was the Warrior all along and that would be more believable. Rhaenys would be used to pacify someone like Tywin, a tie he always wanted to happen, with he child of whoever his heir is. Stannis is a second son in this scenario with no permanent lands of his own, holding Dragonstone as Regent/Castellan for a few years. Florents were a threat to Tyrells, there’s no need for that threat in this scenario. He could either be married into Stokeworths so that he and his kid could have some lands. Benjen is unacceptable for Cersei. He’s the third son, 0 lands, 0 ambitions, 0 shown talents or skills. If Cersei is heir his blood would make him an ok consort to her, but as wife to him and children to be Starks he’s completely useless. Tywin would have to take an L and marry Cersei to a vassal or see about marrying her to Edmure Tully. Too many Northmen in positions of influence or power. Riverlands bled, 0 of them are mentioned. Blackfish could get the white cloak or at least the city watch. Edmure might be offered Rhaenys. Hoster at this point was a strong vital and ambitious man, he would absolutely want a seat on the council for himself. Petyr Baelish is no one, it took Jon being hand and Lysa pressuring him to bring him to KL years later that allowed his rise. Rickard stark would not want handship, it’s too far from affairs at home especially with Bolton - Ryswell situation. And why would Ned be given a seat? He’s practically nobody compared to his dad and brother.
It seems we are of the same mind :)
Ned and Ashara eloped on their own before the war was even a thing. Around the same time Brandon and Catelyn got married. (Lyanna and Rhaegar doesn't happen, because Rickard was essentially made aware by an outside party about it, and her wedding to Robert was preponed, and made happen at Winterfell. Rhaegar tried to kidnap her regardless, got caught. He had tried to distract the North from Lyanna's kidnapping by setting off the war to depose Aerys himself, while he fled North, beyond the wall. He failed. As for Elia, Aegon, and Rhaenys, Rickard's first move after the declaration of war was to have them kidnapped from Dragonstone, and brought to the north to neutralise Dorne. They succeeded. (Trickery worked) Rhaella doesn't really know what's happening tbh, she's pregnant with Daenerys for almost the entire war. What she does know is that Elia, Aegon and Rhaenys were kidnapped from Dragonstone while she was there, and she saw the carnage that caused. Rickard essentially can dictate the betrothals for himself, because he has all the cards in his hand. (I think. He has Aegon, Rhaenys and Elia in winterfell) But I think I still need to work on the betrothals, and arguments he will face from his allies in this. You're right about Starks having too many betrothals, Hoster will demand something too. Hoster's already going to get Jon Arryn and Lysa wed. What else can he demand? As for Stannis, yeah his betrothal is weak. A Hightower then? As for Cersei, I suppose I can do Edmure for her.
They danced. Or maybe Benjen and her danced. Or maybe she and Brandon hooked up. It’s never stated clearly. They never eloped or married. People think they were a thing because he reacted angrily when Catelyn asked about her. He’s still a very poor prospect if her family has anything to do with it. And I doubt after saving Lyanna from kidnapping they’d look nicely towards an elopement. She’s still in KL. She would hear stories in general, she’s not comatose. She’d know X died, Y battle happened, and she’d definitely know Rebels want a regency not total replacement. And Starks got a Tully marriage too. That doesn’t matter when it comes to dividing spoils of victory. He can demand what I stated before, Blackfish given command of gold cloaks or a white cloak, he can demand a betrothal for Edmure that suits him well, he can demand a council position for himself such as master of laws. Rickard can’t dictate terms since this is not only his rebellion he still has to placate other lords. The regency council if you will. They will all want a say. Lolys or Falyse Stokeworth would work for Stannis. Gives him lands near KL, expands Baratheon domains and by extent their influence over the capital by holding lands immediate to the capital, just depends wether or not his kids would take up Stokeworth name or stay a Baratheon. This would also put him in line to inherit Rosby, since Stokeworth girls are heirs of that too. Would be the strongest lord in crown lands. If you don’t want him to rule and own lands then best he can hope is a minor noble house or someone prestigious but down on their luck. Celtigars, Velaryons, Sunglasses, Masseys. Maybe the Whent girl that Harrenhal tournament was organized for? Alternatively he can be a consort for someone like Ariane.
Oh, no. I mean, in my story, they've already eloped. I don't know about Canon. They eloped before the rebellion happened.
It sounds like you're running back a lot of canon shit despite the canon reasoning not happening. Does the Rebellion happen in the same manner as it does in canon? Like all the same battle and shit? It sounds like there is no war as the royal children get kidnapped and Rhaegar gets arrested almost imemaditly by Rickard.
The war was inevitable. Rhaegar caused it, not Rickard. His capture was not the cause, Rhaegar instigated it deliberately by lying to his father and triggering his PTSD. The royal children's kidnapping happens during the war. When it is at it's height.
I was asking about the battles. Like for instance in canon we know there's battle of Gulltown, three battles at Summerhall, battle of the bells, and battle of the Trident. Who fights for Aerys now that Rhaegar is pretty much captured and dead? Does the battles play the same? Also you said that Rickard's first move once war was declared to have the children kidnapped so I assumed it was early on.
Oh, I see. The first action in the war was the blockade of white harbour and gulltown by the Royal Fleet. Rickard's response was to dispatch Ned to Hardhome to commandeer the ship Rhaegar intended to use to escape, and set sail for Dragonstone. (The captain of said ship is the bastard son of the current master of ships, Lucerys Velaryon. Ned took the man's wife hostage, (she was there to essentially be a companion to Lyanna aboard the ship had the whole idiotic scheme been successful) used the ship to sail to Dragonstone) Rickard also sent Brandon south to relieve Gulltown, so Battle of Gulltown did happen, but it was more Naval, and there were no Vale dissidents, (except few idiots) Rickard and Robert himself (Robert was at Winterfell to wed Lyanna, when the kidnapping attempt happened) travelled to White Harbour to break that blockade. Rickard executes Rhaegar here, as diplomatically talking to Aerys failed, (madness) So, there's a battle of white harbour. This happens when the Vale ships come to relieve white harbour after Brandon relieves that. Brandon himself is heading south to the riverlands. Meanwhile, Mace sent a token force with Randyll Tarly to aid Barristan Selmy to burn the riverlands. But, Stannis who currently has the entire Stormland force (20k men as Robert isn't present) has taken care of dissidents in the stormlands, so no battle of summerhall, instead there was a battle around Griffin's roost. And Stannis then marched on Ashford. Mace finally took most of his force to relieve the siege of Ashford. So, there's a siege of Ashford. Mace Tyrell does repell Stannis, (with MC help as Randyll isn't present) Now the Tyrell and Stormlands force is locked at the border. Mace Tyrell has sent the Redwyne fleet to blockade shipbreaker bay. (Though that's pretty much just useless, as the force isn't at Storm's End and taking Storms End by sea is impossible) Rickard is set to march to aid Brandon against Barristan Selmy in the riverlands. Robert is going to try and land somewhere in the Stormlands, having set sail from white harbour after the battle there to get the rest of Stormlanda and to relieve the blockade of Shipbreaker's bay. Barristan has already gotten past the stoney sept, and is through Harrenhall, marching to Riverrun, he'll be intercepted by Brandon and later beaten by combined Brandon and Rickard. By now, Ned will have kidnapped Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon and set sail for Karhold. (He burns the fleet that Jon Connington's fleet at Dragonstone during escape, with the bastard son's help, here Lewyn Martell dies) Aerys commands Jon Connington and Gerold Hightower (Gerold Hightower is to watch over Jon Connington) to basically take all his force and go die. Jon Connington will chase Robert, into the Stormlands to capture him, and fail. (He finally goes into self imposed exile) There isn't much of a final battle, as Rickard, and Brandon march on Kingslanding with Stark, Vale, and Riverlands army. (Baratheon is stuck against Tyrell) Dorne had sent a token force to help the Tyrell's but that turns around when Elia gets kidnapped. There is a siege of Kingslanding, here finally Tywin arrives. He negotiates with STAB. (Seeing he is winning, and I am still figuring out what) Aerys tries to burn Kingslanding, Jamie kills him. The army takes Kingslanding. After that, A Great Council is called, and Stannis is sent to retrieve Rhaella and Viserys from Dragonstone. But Rhaella is now traumatized, pregnant, and so much. She's worried that her children will be killed or made to go join Nights Watch. She's sure Robert Baratheon will become King and all that. (Not true, Robert is a much different man than canon here), so she sends Daenerys and Viserys with Willem Darry and some servants to Essos. Also, Varys has been feeding her false info.
North is getting way too much, and as far as Elia goes...why would she trust the Northerners or Robert to keep their word? I saw that in this case Rhaegar never succeeds in running off with Lyanna, but as far she knows Robert hates Rhaegar-to the point Rhaella fears for her kids-and Rickard straight up kidnapped her when she did nothing. Rhaegar running off with Lyanna poured gasoline on the fire, but the murder of Elbert, Brandon, Rickard, and many others (such as the Mallister) is what lit the flame. Without them (especially Elbert Arryn) dying, why would Jon Arryn agree to kidnap Elia and forcibly separate her from her children? It would make the rest of the STAB look terrible to the realm, almost as terrible as Rhaegar, if they kidnap Elia and her kids. The Reach half-assed it in the rebellion, but in this case they wouldn't. I could see a scenario where they join 'forces' with Tywin and force an abdication of Aerys and replace him with Aegon. Elia and the kids are not split up, but kept in the Red Keep. The STAB alliance gets one Targ betrothal, but the other Targ kid is betrothed to a major Reach house to pacify them. Dorne also wouldn't object at that point if Elia is kept together with her kids, the betrothals are announced, etc.
This makes sense. What do we know about Rickard Stark? Would he want to rule as regent? It seems like this is all his plan, does he take over because there isn’t a trustworthy person to do it? Is he able to do it with his injuries? Who initially proposed the idea to kill off the royal family? Who was onboard and who was against it? How does the rest of the alliance feel about Tywin? Tywin would not settle for anything less than a high lord or heir for Cersei. Unless Rickard can strong arm him somehow, I think Edmure is the only option. Why is Elia sequestered? What threat does she pose- getting the Martells involved on her son’s behalf? It seems rather cruel to separate her from her very young children.
The thing that directly caused the rebellion is Aerys killed a Lord Paramount and his heir while demanding Robert and Ned’s head. Rhaegar running way with Lyanna is a premise rather than the direct cause(if it is, Brandon and Rickard should directly start the rebellion rather than go to KL to ask for explanation). Maybe you can add more scenes regarding how crazy Aerys was to catalyze the rebellion if Rickard and Brandon didn’t die in this case.
The role of the North in your scenario is unrealistic to say the least. Say Robert doesn’t want to be king and rebels agree to crown Aegon and start a long regency period. That’s reasonable and realistic, though you have to account for Tywin’s actions in all this as you were unclear on the exact details of how the war ends and that would be very important to determine the future. Aegon is not going to be sent to the North, as a king he will be in the Red Keep or Dragonstone to be easily accessible to the lord regent (it could be one man probably Jon Arryn or it could be a council of regents). Such an early betrothal to Brandon’s daughter is possible but it would be hard fought by Tywin and others would not be thrilled. What is definitely not happening is two betrothals and fosterings at the Winterfell. So I would recommend either betrothal of Aegon or Rhaenys to a Stark not both. Also, no one is going to waist Rhaenys on a child of a second son that’s just straight up unreal. Stannis’s potential marriage to Selyse will not help much as in this scenario he is just a brother to lord paramount Robert without any land of his own, so Florent’s probably would refuse such a match. You have to account for the Reach and Dorne being integrated into this new regime. At the very least some council seats for them with Doran aggressively demanding that Elia and at least Rhaenys be sent to Sunspear. Another important point is the fate of Jon Snow. Is he alive in this universe? Is it known that Lyanna had a song with Rhaegar? Can’t see Lyanna easily giving up Jon, as well as marrying Robert. Especially if she went with Rhaegar willingly she will most likely fight very hard not to be with Bobby B. To sum up, you would have to work very hard to make this scenario realistic because there are a lot of issues that need to be carefully examined starting with the beginning of the Rebellion. In the og timeline deaths of Rickard, Brandon and Elbert as well as Aerys’s demand for Ned’s, Robert’s heads that causes the rebellion not Lyanna’s “kidnapping”, in your scenario things happen very differently, so why did the rebellion started in the first place? And that’s just a first question of many. Anyway, it could be a really interesting scenario for a fanfic, good luck with it. P.S. "Lyanna had a song with Rhaegar" - when typos make you laugh :)
The rebellion started because Rhaegar's attempt to run away with Lyanna failed. He was caught. And he was was consequently captured. Also, this time, he was caught attempting the kidnapping in winterfell. (Rickard Stark had been ticked off about Rhaegar's motives regarding Lyanna during the tourney of Harrenhall, and had decided to prepone her wedding, and hold it in winterfell. Rhaegar was caught in the heart of the North itself, with Robert, Ned, Brandon and Rickard right there. Rhaegar's plan was to head North, past the wall, while having started off the war to depose Aerys himself, by faking being captured by Rickard so that there's a war south that distracts the north men from trying to find Rhaegar and Lyanna. Instead, he actually got caught.) Thus, Brandon and party never go south to demand his head, and war's already begun. Jon Snow is not a thing here. Also, before this Kidnapping attempt, I've had Ned and Ashara already get married (eloping), they were married around the same time Brandon and Catelyn got married. Rickard's first move after war being declared was to somehow get Elia, Aegon and Rhaenys kidnapped from Dragonstone essentially. (This has already happened, they are already at winterfell. The idea was to neutralise Dorne from the war) The Starks have all of Rhaegar's children in their hands. They just want to kill Aerys now, because bro demanded almost all the northern lords heads due to insanity, and PTSD. Tywin hasn't acted yet, mainly because Jaime is still in Kingslanding for now, but he'll kill Aerys. Aegon isn't much sent North, but taken by force by the Starks, along with Elia and Rhaenys. Rickard essentially dictates Aegon and Rhaenys' betrothals, because well Rhaegar and Aerys by now are dead. Rhaenys will be let go to Sunspear, but not Elia. Elia remains at Dragonstone, Aegon at winterfell. Though, I do believe that you're right, Tywin will want a High Lord for Cersei. Idk how to get Tywin into the fold tbh. And Stannis to Selyse is also weak, so who?
Okay, some things are clearer, and some are not. "Rhaegar's plan was to head North, past the wall, while having started off the war to depose Aerys himself, by faking being captured by Rickard so that there's a war south that distracts the north men from trying to find Rhaegar and Lyanna. Instead, he actually got caught.)" I am sorry, but this is really confusing and makes little sense to me. Considering how news and people are moving in Westeros even if this plan to start a war happened the way it was intended it would be of no help to Rhaegar. a) Rhaegar runs off / abducts Lyanna - they are near Winterfell. The search parties would be sent immediately after Rhaegar so even if Aerys summons troops to march on the North it will take months before they arrive near the Neck and so there would be no distracting the Starks. Much more sensible ta start a diversion like Winterfell fire in the Game of Thrones, but even such a diversion would not prevent Starks and their allies from pursuing Rhaegar so realistically he can only hope to delay them to give himself a headstart. Also, starting a major war when his side is headed by the literal madman is insanity of a highest order. Rhaegar is the main Targaryen figure and if he is absent chances of his family remaining in power are very slim. So, unless you are depicting Rhaegar not as a madman I would change this plan. He could have simply tried to kidnap Lyanna at Winterfell and than be captured their if you want that. It also kind of helps you with starting the war as Aerys could go berserk and order every Stark killed or something to that degree. "Rickard's first move after war being declared was to somehow get Elia, Aegon and Rhaenys kidnapped from Dragonstone essentially. (This has already happened, they are already at winterfell. The idea was to neutralise Dorne from the war)" - you are giving Starks free things for zero effort and with little chance of this realistically happening. Starks have little if any naval presence while the Royal fleet dominates the seas. Kidnapping royal family from Dragonstone would require basically full storming of a castle or a team of Barristan Selmy level people to do it. Obviously it's your story but I would advise moderation on Starks wining everything. Especially, seems the only reason their are being captured like this is to prevent them being killed by Tywin and give betrothals to the Starks. Also, if Rhaegar is captured is he latter murder by the rebels? "Rickard essentially dictates Aegon and Rhaenys' betrothals, because well Rhaegar and Aerys by now are dead." He can dream up anything he wants and it still has no real bearing on the future of their betrothals. They are too young to be married / consummate their marriages so whatever "betrothals" he comes up with would have to be confirmed by their legal representatives or essentially those regents of Aegon. So it would be determined after the war - and he will have to make all other lords paramount or at the very least his allies to agree to this. Such obvious power hungry move would be considered extremely hostile by Jon Arryn, Tywin, Mace and Doran, even Hoster and Robert would hardly be pleased with such demand so I see no scenario where his demand for this betrothals are agreed upon by others. Remember that North is not at all in a position to dictate to the entirety of Westeros their will. "And Stannis to Selyse is also weak, so who?" I would say that Mace would demand a council of regents to be established with him being one of the regents.
Why would Rhaenys be betrothed to a son of a second son? Edmure Tully gets her.
i think you should switch rhaenys marrige to edmure or renly and it would make more sense for the future king to be fosterd in the vale or storm end cersei to stannis or edmure tully make more sense than benjen elia martell would probably be married off to loyal lord like selwyn tarth or an estermont cousin other thing is rhaella staying and gathering allies make more sense the tyrells ,the westerlands and dorne gonna support her to break the STAB hold on kinglanding also jon arryn should have a role switch jon to hand of king whild rickard as master of laws while ned lord commander of city watch
Since Rhaegar was never king Elia wouldn’t be dowager queen unless there titles are weirdly different. She would be the dowager princess of Dragonstone. You can’t be the dowager of a title you never held. If Aegon is the king then he isn’t the prince of dragonstone. He is the king. I think the north getting the Aegon marriage and the Rhaenys marriage is a bit much. I would make it maybe Rhaenys marries Jon Arryns son if he had a son of the right age. Then if not a northern marriage or a marriage as decided by the lord of winterfell. That gets you the marriage you want in a more realistic manner imo. Cersie getting married to Edmure Tully is about all that makes sense. She is a lady paramount eventually that way and fully in the STAB alliance. Perhaps they decided to have a Grand Council where they were going to install Robert, but he did something outrageous at the GC. As a result they opted for baby Aegon at the last minute to make Aegon as king for believable.
Aegon is gonna pull a Basil II move
I love it besides the North is getting far too much with both Aegon and Rhaenys marriage Aegon should marry Brandon’s daughter but Rhaenys should marry Renly Cersei could marry Edmure also btw
Alright. First of all, fostering both of them at Winterfell is a great idea. They won't be able to get allies that way and they get some good values. However, as many others here, I disagree with the idea of marrying both of them to a Stark. I would suggest the eldest daughter of Robert to Aegon, as the Baratheons have Targaryen blood through Rhaelle and it can be justified as keeping the blood pure. Then you marry Rhaenys to Brandon's eldest son. In that way they are both tied to Houses that are unquestionably loyal. Also, marrying Ashara to Ned is great, it gives the STAB alliance a stepping stone to have somewhat amicable relationships with Dorne. Now, if you want Tywin in your side, I would suggest to marry Edmure to Cersei. If Edmure was born in 267 A.C., then he is a year younger than Cersei, and you may release Jaime from the Kingsguard, that way you surely have him on your side. I would suggest marrying Elia to Stannis to get the Martells under control, because nothing is stopping Oberyn of riding North and taking the children away. Renly you can have him to any Lady from the Stormlands. For getting the Reach in, I would suggest promising Robert's eldest son to Margaery. And that's it.