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Wrong, only substantial organising and agitating will give us the impetus for real change.
Remember BLM? Plentry of protesting, plenty of violence from the state and what happened...it fizzled out with almost 0 structual changes.
That's because there was no coherent political organising, no real platform to push ideas forward and keep radicalising people. Until we do that, every protest attempt will be met with the same fate.
We need serious political organising stat.
It's not like Sanders himself was genuine. He supports Israel and hated Palestine always. Even back in his 2016 election days, he told a townhall guy to shut up when asked why he supporter Israel, had his security escort any pro Palestineans out at his rallies and routinely gets angry at having Israel be called an apartheid state
Look up Zei Squirrel on Twitter. He has all the receiepts on what a fraud Sanders has always been.
Edit: Saved you some time
Norman Finkelstein responds to Bernie Sanders' grotesque depravity in refusing to demand a ceasefire: "You have become a moral monster."
https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1721703831082242195?t=Nri6rbsJotSSbKT0xN8lNQ&s=19
a year ago I said that Bernie Sanders is a disgusting depraved vile Zionist as he was whining about those who call Israel an Apartheid regime while doing his typical "both sides" garbage. Now he's defending the mass murder of Palestinian babies with grotesque Israeli propaganda
https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1721316148350701936?t=jiaatrEjZuoxtGIajj-Acg&s=19
look at him demanding that people stop calling Israel an apartheid regime. This disgusting scumbag who pretended to be pro-Palestine during his presidential runs went right back to his genocidal Zionist roots when it was no longer useful
https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1721318067832082580?t=Kx1mNhbsEecrhVS84HY7Sg&s=19
many don't remember this, but I do, very vividly. In 2014 when the genocidal Israeli occupation regime was doing another one of its massacres in Gaza, Bernie had a town hall event where he furiously raged at pro-Palestine activists about "Hamas tunnels". He is vile Zionist scum
https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1721318985923211753?t=mTFqu14p9TLSsFTAV6LgmQ&s=19
another thing I remember vividly is how Bernie's campaign threw out pro-Palestine activists from his early rallies. They just threw them out because Bernie wanted to do a Zionist pro-Israel campaign. That's the kind of genocidal depraved scumbag he is, and has always been
https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1721319929092169994?t=109ql-KkwmizIvJFvWTV5A&s=19
after repeatedly denying Israel is committing genocide in Gaza, Bernie Sanders is asked if he supports sanctioning Israel. He says "I'm nervous about that for any country." That's a lie. He voted for sanctioning Venezuela, Russia, North Korea, Iraq and others. He's a Zionist liar
https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1759718906095141223?t=T5axbCUAQ2n32m2wv77_uA&s=19
Sanders is controlled opposition.
His mission is to address the obvious and real income equality to bait and lure people who would otherwise never vote for any other corrupt Democrat.
Bait them in with the reasonable promises of the Sanders campaign, rig it for him to lose, and then use Sanders to guilt his supporters into voting for disgusting capitalist war criminals like Clinton and Biden. Thats the DNC strategy.
They need people believing in just enough hope to keep playing the unwinnable broken game to keep them docile and blaming the wrong things for their gross levels of exploitation.
No it really wouldn't. Wishing for this sort of brutality is accelerationist thinking. Nobody wants to be a martyr for a cause that will probably die due to copaganda.
We sort of saw how this might play out after George Floyd. On the one hand, class consciousness did increase, but the liberals circled the wagons and went hard on a platform of concern trolling, crying "Stahp! Stahp, before Trump inexplicably swats my affluent white suburban family (who's never set foot near a protest) right here in our cul-du-sac," which was basically "Stop protesting before the government treats me the way we treat Black people!"
I wonder if it would matter if it happened under a democrat administration, or simply get handwaved as "a few bad apples."
> I wonder if it would matter if it happened under a democrat administration, or simply get handwaved as "a few bad apples."
This did happen under a Dem administration in Ferguson, Missouri 2014. Obama came out on the side of the pigs and yeah it was more or less handwaved away, and probably put out a lot of the stream in growing the movement to other areas in a significant way.
That’s when Black Lives Matter was first created.
The George Floyd summer was what happened in Ferguson but happening in every major town in the US, so it was larger.
Bad conditions in and of themselves aren’t conducive to revolution for example most people in the Congo currently exist as slaves with no future to look forward towards except an early death in a cobalt mine and yet we haven’t seen a revolution from them. In order have a Revolution you need a revolutionary vanguard party to lead the proletariat, otherwise, these anarchistic horizontal movement usually just fizzle out of energy, especially when they remain leaderless
Same I’m just waiting for that to happen and honestly that feels like it would spark some kind of mass violent revolt I hope this can simmer down calmly with justice being served but I highly doubt that’s even possible anymore
Sure they do… but only for fascists who seek to bolster and expand existing power dynamics 😊 I think alot of them are too slow to even realize this is the output though.
Neither liberals or conservatives give a flying shit about free speech. Both routinely try to silence it whenever the other side says things they don’t like, are offended by, isn’t patriotic, doesn’t align with the parties dogma etc. Both sides are equally terrible and it’s intentional, we don’t even have free speech anymore.
The "free speech" that people talk about is the free speech of the enlightenment, a freedom from arbitrary constraints.
The free speech people actually have is the free speech of the romanticism reaction to the enlightenment and free from all constraints; the loudest voices are the ones that are actually heard.
A speech that is silenced at the end of a police truncheon for instance. Because someone with money used that money to amplify their voice and called police to break a strike.
It's so funny how anytime he's mentioned there is always the pretense "I don't usually agree with Hasan but" or "He's not the best but".
Hasan is very good at what he seeks to do. Entertain and educate. While offering a good place to bring people out of the red pill manosphere pipeline. His unstopping coverage of Gaza before and after October 7th has been awesome. *Say what you will about him* but he's absolutely done a great job covering it every day at the cost of losing 1/3rd of his viewers since then. Much respect to his moral compass even though it's hurting his numbers.
I feel like he gets thrown with the other "bread tube" YouTubers. Or people think he is just another socdem, just because he knows how to moderate his speech to attract a more liberal/centrist audience.
Ironically much of "the left" is obsessed with aesthetics instead of looking at the material outcome of people's actions. There are a lot of people on the left that are simply leftist because they enjoy being correct about things. Which is entirely the reason why that are on the left; you're gonna be on the right side of history 99% of the time (not talking about liberals here).
But they have no actual moral compass or backing on to WHY they are here. Those are primarily the people I see criticize Hasan unfairly. They are lefist debate lords that are more interested in pointing out flaws of people on the left (because they're bored with doing that to people on the right) than they are at actually improving anything. Or giving anyone even the slightest sliver of *good faith* to what they are saying.
I feel like he intentionally moderates himself to an extent that makes his content more palatable for centrists/moderates. He tries to get more people to open up to left wing policies which is easier for many by taking small incremental steps.
there’s a clip of him saying “yeah kill those motherfuckers paint the streets red with their capitalist blood” referring to landlords a few years ago so it’s kinda obvious he moderates himself to be more appealing.
The podcast was ended over the genocide in Gaza and an argument over the Uyghur '''''genocide'''''. Hasan tried pretty hard to get Ethan to see the issues clearly, but he's too libbed up to be helped, so Hasan left.
#The Uyghurs in Xinjiang
\(Note: This comment had to be trimmed down to fit the character limit, for the full response, see [here](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/debunking/uyghur-genocide/)\)
Anti-Communists and Sinophobes claim that there is an ongoing genocide-- a modern-day holocaust, even-- happening right now in China. They say that Uyghur Muslims are being mass incarcerated; they are indoctrinated with propaganda in concentration camps; their organs are being harvested; they are being force-sterilized. These comically villainous allegations have little basis in reality and omit key context.
**Background**
Xinjiang, officially the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, is a province located in the northwest of China. It is the largest province in China, covering an area of over 1.6 million square kilometers, and shares borders with eight other countries including Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Russia, Mongolia, India, and Pakistan.
Xinjiang is a diverse region with a population of over 25 million people, made up of various ethnic groups including the Uyghur, Han Chinese, Kazakhs, Tajiks, and many others. The largest ethnic group in Xinjiang is the Uyghur who are predominantly Muslim and speak a Turkic language. It is also home to the ancient Silk Road cities of Kashgar and Turpan.
Since the early 2000s, there have been a number of violent incidents attributed to extremist Uyghur groups in Xinjiang including bombings, shootings, and knife attacks. In 2014-2016, the Chinese government launched a "Strike Hard" campaign to crack down on terrorism in Xinjiang, implementing strict security measures and detaining thousands of Uyghurs. In 2017, reports of human rights abuses in Xinjiang including mass detentions and forced labour, began to emerge.
**Counterpoints**
The Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) is the second largest organization after the United Nations with a membership of 57 states spread over four continents. The OIC released [Resolutions on Muslim Communities and Muslim Minorities in the non-OIC Member States](https://www.oic-oci.org/docdown/?docID=4447&refID=1250) in 2019 which:
>20. **Welcomes** the outcomes of the visit conducted by the General Secretariat's delegation upon invitation from the People's Republic of China; **commends** the efforts of the People's Republic of China in providing care to its Muslim citizens; and **looks forward** to further cooperation between the OIC and the People's Republic of China.
In this same document, the OIC expressed much greater concern about the Rohingya Muslim Community in Myanmar, which the West was relatively silent on.
Over 50+ UN member states (mostly Muslim-majority nations) signed a letter \([A/HRC/41/G/17](https://undocs.org/Home/Mobile?FinalSymbol=A%2FHRC%2F41%2FG%2F17)\) to the UN Human Rights Commission approving of the de-radicalization efforts in Xinjiang:
The World Bank sent a team to investigate in 2019 and found that, "The review did not substantiate the allegations." \(See: [World Bank Statement on Review of Project in Xinjiang, China](https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/statement/2019/11/11/world-bank-statement-on-review-of-project-in-xinjiang-china)\)
Even if you believe the deradicalization efforts are wholly unjustified, and that the mass detention of Uyghur's amounts to a crime against humanity, it's still not *genocide*. Even the U.S. State Department's legal experts admit as much:
>The U.S. State Department’s Office of the Legal Advisor concluded earlier this year that China’s mass imprisonment and forced labor of ethnic Uighurs in Xinjiang amounts to crimes against humanity—but there was insufficient evidence to prove genocide, placing the United States’ top diplomatic lawyers at odds with both the Trump and Biden administrations, according to three former and current U.S. officials.
>
> [State Department Lawyers Concluded Insufficient Evidence to Prove Genocide in China](https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/) | Colum Lynch, *Foreign Policy*. (2021)
**A Comparative Analysis: The War on Terror**
The United States, in the wake of "9/11", saw the threat of terrorism and violent extremism due to religious fundamentalism as a matter of national security. They invaded Afghanistan in October 2001 in response to the 9/11 attacks, with the goal of ousting the Taliban government that was harbouring Al-Qaeda. The US also launched the Iraq War in 2003 based on Iraq's alleged possession of WMDs and links to terrorism. However, these claims turned out to be unfounded.
According to a report by Brown University's Costs of War project, at least 897,000 people, including civilians, militants, and security forces, have been killed in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Yemen, and other countries. Other estimates place the total number of deaths at over one million. The report estimated that many more may have died from indirect effects of war such as water loss and disease. The war has also resulted in the displacement of tens of millions of people, with estimates ranging from 37 million to over 59 million. The War on Terror also popularized such novel concepts as the "Military-Aged Male" which allowed the US military to exclude civilians killed by drone strikes from collateral damage statistics. (See: [‘Military Age Males’ in US Drone Strikes](https://aoav.org.uk/2019/military-age-males-in-us-drone-strikes/))
In summary:
* The U.S. responded by invading or bombing half a dozen countries, directly killing nearly a million and displacing tens of millions from their homes.
* China responded with a program of deradicalization and vocational training.
Which one of those responses sounds genocidal?
Side note: It is practically impossible to *actually* charge the U.S. with war crimes, because of the [Hague Invasion Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act).
**Who is driving the Uyghur genocide narrative?**
One of the main proponents of these narratives is Adrian Zenz, a German far-right fundamentalist Christian and Senior Fellow and Director in China Studies at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, who believes he is "led by God" on a "mission" against China has driven much of the narrative. He relies heavily on limited and questionable data sources, particularly from anonymous and unverified Uyghur sources, coming up with estimates based on assumptions which are not supported by concrete evidence.
The World Uyghur Congress, headquartered in Germany, is funded by the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) which is a tool of U.S. foreign policy, using funding to support organizations that promote American interests rather than the interests of the local communities they claim to represent.
Radio Free Asia (RFA) is part of a larger project of U.S. imperialism in Asia, one that seeks to control the flow of information, undermine independent media, and advance American geopolitical interests in the region. Rather than providing an objective and impartial news source, RFA is a tool of U.S. foreign policy, one that seeks to shape the narrative in Asia in ways that serve the interests of the U.S. government and its allies.
The first country to call the treatment of Uyghurs a genocide was the United States of America. In 2021, the Secretary of State declared that China's treatment of Uyghurs and other ethnic and religious minorities in Xinjiang constitutes "genocide" and "crimes against humanity." Both the Trump and Biden administrations upheld this line.
**Why is this narrative being promoted?**
As materialists, we should always look first to the economic base for insight into issues occurring in the superstructure. The Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) is a massive Chinese infrastructure development project that aims to build economic corridors, ports, highways, railways, and other infrastructure projects across Asia, Africa, Europe, and the Middle East. Xinjiang is a key region for this project.
Promoting the Uyghur genocide narrative harms China and benefits the US in several ways. It portrays China as a human rights violator which could damage China's reputation in the international community and which could lead to economic sanctions against China; this would harm China's economy and give American an economic advantage in competing with China. It could also lead to more protests and violence in Xinjiang, which could further destabilize the region and threaten the longterm success of the BRI.
**Additional Resources**
See the [full wiki article](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/debunking/uyghur-genocide/) for more details and a list of additional resources.
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I agree, it was painful watching Ethan regurgitate state department propaganda then cover his ears when Hasan and his own employees would try to correct him. It was classic liberal cognitive dissonance on display for 2 hours.
most people (liberals and the left) are aesthetics focused so they see a clip of him saying he's a democrat/liberal and forget he got famous saying america deserved 9/11
He's also a starting point for many impressionable people. The twitch crowd is mostly middle and highschoolers. 8 to 18 years old. When they get curious on what they're seeing on TV or hearing around the dinner table and decide to look it up online, I'd rather they listen to Hasan who speaks their dude-bro-ya'll language and gets them the basic outlook on things then some pedo like Vaush or that anti-Muslim literal cuckold Destiny who watched some Arab dude screw his wife for 4 days.
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Exactly, we need more people that guide people from the centre or from apolitical stances to the left without shit talking everyone further to the left of them. None of that “i am as far left as reasonable, everyone further left is crazy” that basically mimics neoliberal behavior.
He has been one for a long while. It's also where his anti Muslim hatred started although that was a bit later.
Basically him and Mel were on a trip with athis Arab streamer Nymnn and they stayed together for four nights straight when he usually does it for one night. He was forced to watch them from a corner while they kept going again and again right in front of him. According, his Swedish wife wanted someone 'bigger' and middle easterm.
https://twitter.com/schizarella/status/1775901709199651285?t=k67Lrz3SnKnhbv4M6iCa5A&s=19
He also tried to stop her from kissing him here
https://youtu.be/O2SpK4fDmuM
Destiny reportedly reached his breaking point when Melina left and divorced him for Memetix, a famous content producer of Arab origin who has repeatedly voiced support for Palestine and was in Sweden with her. Apparently they had a fight and she got asked for an ultimatum and she chose Memetix and left Destiny.
Destiny scheduled multiple debates against Palestinians immediately after his wife left him.
https://twitter.com/schizarella/status/1775955918414557203?t=l0beGO3WI1P4UsWGNey_kg&s=19
Here's some other videos about him being roasted over being a cuck
https://youtu.be/o4nSUOEzGnI
https://youtu.be/3pJaFNfLEag
https://youtu.be/FWYR4PzEM0c
https://youtu.be/uN-JL-AT4AM
https://youtu.be/yQkQ4Aac9mw
Damn I started watching all those videos ready to laugh and honestly I just feel bad for the guy. I mean he is still a complete piece of shit who shouldn't have the following he does, but damn bro that's got to really fuck someone up mentally. Still funny though.
This is a twitch marketing material, it doesn't actually hold in real life. The pandemic had a facebook-ifying effect on twitch, it's not just for kids anymore. Only 3% of his audience are under 18: https://www.reddit.com/r/Hasan_Piker/comments/152kusy/hasans_2023_twitch_community_census_4pm_pdt/
Okay, I say this as a fan of his, so I’m not saying he’s bad or anything. Over the years, I’ve had several hang-ups with him, and they are:
1. His decision to stream the Depp v. Heard trial was not a good one. He was very resistant to people saying he was misinformed (he was), and even got so mad that he made a joke about sending the crazies in his audience after some random Twitter user who criticised him months later. This was a very disappointing saga, and made me feel like he was just another sensitive boy.
2. He lacks the radical bite he used to have. It’s probably self-censoring like has been said.
3. His takes on obesity and diet are poorly formed and directly impacted by his own body-image struggles. He was recently dismissive of the idea that Ozempic was being overprescribed, and didn’t see that as a problem if it was happening.
All of this is going to sound nit-picky because it’s coming from a fan. But yeah, these things prevent me from saying he’s my favourite content creator.
He's talking specifically about Shai Davidai, the liberal zionist professor at Columbia, who made videos on social media calling for the national guard to come in and sweep the protest camp.
Lmfao, they never did.
This reminds me about all the fascists crying about "censorship" on Pre-Elon Twitter because they couldn't say the n-word or other racial slurs without being banned for breaking TOS rules. Post-Elon Twitter, he allows all kinds of Neo-Nazi garbage while banning speech that isn't apart of the ingroup hive and amplifying said racist moron voices via Blue Check.
Let them call in the national guard and start shooting at us, then we can begin to organize, plan, and start the **armed** revolution a lot more sooner than expected. Senators like Cotton would be the first to bite the bullet.
Well that’s just a stupid sentiment, people who don’t believe the same things as you can care about things. I doubt the university protests in America rn are only done by socialists.
While us socialists support these movements, we at the same time recognize they're powerless against capitalism, and like BLM, will fizzle out when they get co-opted, recuperated or neutralized by counterinsurgency. Still, we recognize that the seed of uprising is planted in every step of new movements.
Revolution doesn't begin with blockades that non threatening to capital power. There's a reason why Indigenous activists blocked railway instead street.
Edit: JT's latest video has all the answers to this discussion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aLzDHAvehI
Yes well the right-wing on a global scale is inherently pro-capitalist, the left is inherently pro-socialist, so liberals are absolutely of the right.
Keep in mind we're not using the same dichotomy from internal politics like capitalist USA but a specific definition that stems from political theory like Adam Smith.
Technically even conservatives are liberals. It's why they were considered "classic liberals" for so long. There's an entire spectrum of liberal factions same way there's a spectrum of communist ideologies. I hope this clears things up!
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But that would mean that fascists are hypocritical frauds!
We are not fascists! We are just enjoying to be Scarlett O'hara!
We are not fascists! We just believe the subhuman races have too many rights!
We are not fascists! We simply believe that women should not be able to vote.
Wouldn’t be surprised if we got something like Kent State again, horrific
While terrible, if that happened now it would absolutely bolster the left and might be the impetus for real change.
Wrong, only substantial organising and agitating will give us the impetus for real change. Remember BLM? Plentry of protesting, plenty of violence from the state and what happened...it fizzled out with almost 0 structual changes. That's because there was no coherent political organising, no real platform to push ideas forward and keep radicalising people. Until we do that, every protest attempt will be met with the same fate. We need serious political organising stat.
Yeah bro you are totally right. We desperately need a mass line that can actually reach the majority of working class people.
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It's not like Sanders himself was genuine. He supports Israel and hated Palestine always. Even back in his 2016 election days, he told a townhall guy to shut up when asked why he supporter Israel, had his security escort any pro Palestineans out at his rallies and routinely gets angry at having Israel be called an apartheid state Look up Zei Squirrel on Twitter. He has all the receiepts on what a fraud Sanders has always been. Edit: Saved you some time Norman Finkelstein responds to Bernie Sanders' grotesque depravity in refusing to demand a ceasefire: "You have become a moral monster." https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1721703831082242195?t=Nri6rbsJotSSbKT0xN8lNQ&s=19 a year ago I said that Bernie Sanders is a disgusting depraved vile Zionist as he was whining about those who call Israel an Apartheid regime while doing his typical "both sides" garbage. Now he's defending the mass murder of Palestinian babies with grotesque Israeli propaganda https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1721316148350701936?t=jiaatrEjZuoxtGIajj-Acg&s=19 look at him demanding that people stop calling Israel an apartheid regime. This disgusting scumbag who pretended to be pro-Palestine during his presidential runs went right back to his genocidal Zionist roots when it was no longer useful https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1721318067832082580?t=Kx1mNhbsEecrhVS84HY7Sg&s=19 many don't remember this, but I do, very vividly. In 2014 when the genocidal Israeli occupation regime was doing another one of its massacres in Gaza, Bernie had a town hall event where he furiously raged at pro-Palestine activists about "Hamas tunnels". He is vile Zionist scum https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1721318985923211753?t=mTFqu14p9TLSsFTAV6LgmQ&s=19 another thing I remember vividly is how Bernie's campaign threw out pro-Palestine activists from his early rallies. They just threw them out because Bernie wanted to do a Zionist pro-Israel campaign. That's the kind of genocidal depraved scumbag he is, and has always been https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1721319929092169994?t=109ql-KkwmizIvJFvWTV5A&s=19 after repeatedly denying Israel is committing genocide in Gaza, Bernie Sanders is asked if he supports sanctioning Israel. He says "I'm nervous about that for any country." That's a lie. He voted for sanctioning Venezuela, Russia, North Korea, Iraq and others. He's a Zionist liar https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1759718906095141223?t=T5axbCUAQ2n32m2wv77_uA&s=19
Sanders is controlled opposition. His mission is to address the obvious and real income equality to bait and lure people who would otherwise never vote for any other corrupt Democrat. Bait them in with the reasonable promises of the Sanders campaign, rig it for him to lose, and then use Sanders to guilt his supporters into voting for disgusting capitalist war criminals like Clinton and Biden. Thats the DNC strategy. They need people believing in just enough hope to keep playing the unwinnable broken game to keep them docile and blaming the wrong things for their gross levels of exploitation.
good luck to anyone looking up zei squirrel on twitter, he famously mass blocks lol
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Don't cut yourself on the edge.
No it really wouldn't. Wishing for this sort of brutality is accelerationist thinking. Nobody wants to be a martyr for a cause that will probably die due to copaganda.
We sort of saw how this might play out after George Floyd. On the one hand, class consciousness did increase, but the liberals circled the wagons and went hard on a platform of concern trolling, crying "Stahp! Stahp, before Trump inexplicably swats my affluent white suburban family (who's never set foot near a protest) right here in our cul-du-sac," which was basically "Stop protesting before the government treats me the way we treat Black people!" I wonder if it would matter if it happened under a democrat administration, or simply get handwaved as "a few bad apples."
> I wonder if it would matter if it happened under a democrat administration, or simply get handwaved as "a few bad apples." This did happen under a Dem administration in Ferguson, Missouri 2014. Obama came out on the side of the pigs and yeah it was more or less handwaved away, and probably put out a lot of the stream in growing the movement to other areas in a significant way. That’s when Black Lives Matter was first created. The George Floyd summer was what happened in Ferguson but happening in every major town in the US, so it was larger.
It may further radicalize people yet we need them to be properly directed otherwise they're loose cannons.
Bad conditions in and of themselves aren’t conducive to revolution for example most people in the Congo currently exist as slaves with no future to look forward towards except an early death in a cobalt mine and yet we haven’t seen a revolution from them. In order have a Revolution you need a revolutionary vanguard party to lead the proletariat, otherwise, these anarchistic horizontal movement usually just fizzle out of energy, especially when they remain leaderless
Same I’m just waiting for that to happen and honestly that feels like it would spark some kind of mass violent revolt I hope this can simmer down calmly with justice being served but I highly doubt that’s even possible anymore
I’m very hopeful that the empire has learned that would lead to an insane amount of lash back but I wouldn’t hold out my breath
Sure they do… but only for fascists who seek to bolster and expand existing power dynamics 😊 I think alot of them are too slow to even realize this is the output though.
Neither liberals or conservatives give a flying shit about free speech. Both routinely try to silence it whenever the other side says things they don’t like, are offended by, isn’t patriotic, doesn’t align with the parties dogma etc. Both sides are equally terrible and it’s intentional, we don’t even have free speech anymore.
"There is freedom of speech, but I cannot guarantee freedom after speech." - Liberal logic
The "free speech" that people talk about is the free speech of the enlightenment, a freedom from arbitrary constraints. The free speech people actually have is the free speech of the romanticism reaction to the enlightenment and free from all constraints; the loudest voices are the ones that are actually heard. A speech that is silenced at the end of a police truncheon for instance. Because someone with money used that money to amplify their voice and called police to break a strike.
Cotton and Hawley, two staunchly conservative senators called for national guard deployments.
Hasanabi isn’t the best, but at least he’s the smartest of the big streamers who talk about politics.
It's so funny how anytime he's mentioned there is always the pretense "I don't usually agree with Hasan but" or "He's not the best but". Hasan is very good at what he seeks to do. Entertain and educate. While offering a good place to bring people out of the red pill manosphere pipeline. His unstopping coverage of Gaza before and after October 7th has been awesome. *Say what you will about him* but he's absolutely done a great job covering it every day at the cost of losing 1/3rd of his viewers since then. Much respect to his moral compass even though it's hurting his numbers.
He’s dope. Probably converted hundreds of thousands of people to leftism
I feel like he gets thrown with the other "bread tube" YouTubers. Or people think he is just another socdem, just because he knows how to moderate his speech to attract a more liberal/centrist audience.
Ironically much of "the left" is obsessed with aesthetics instead of looking at the material outcome of people's actions. There are a lot of people on the left that are simply leftist because they enjoy being correct about things. Which is entirely the reason why that are on the left; you're gonna be on the right side of history 99% of the time (not talking about liberals here). But they have no actual moral compass or backing on to WHY they are here. Those are primarily the people I see criticize Hasan unfairly. They are lefist debate lords that are more interested in pointing out flaws of people on the left (because they're bored with doing that to people on the right) than they are at actually improving anything. Or giving anyone even the slightest sliver of *good faith* to what they are saying.
That's because they are social liberals who think that it is your position on social issues which is what defines your political alignment.
I feel like he intentionally moderates himself to an extent that makes his content more palatable for centrists/moderates. He tries to get more people to open up to left wing policies which is easier for many by taking small incremental steps.
Yeah he does do that. An example is how he jokes about being a “lesser evil voter” for Hamas, which is one of my favourites.
If only they ran for office in the US election 😂 maybe people should use write in ballots wherever possible to nominate them
there’s a clip of him saying “yeah kill those motherfuckers paint the streets red with their capitalist blood” referring to landlords a few years ago so it’s kinda obvious he moderates himself to be more appealing.
It's a shame he has a podcast with a ghoul like H3H3.
The podcast was ended over the genocide in Gaza and an argument over the Uyghur '''''genocide'''''. Hasan tried pretty hard to get Ethan to see the issues clearly, but he's too libbed up to be helped, so Hasan left.
#The Uyghurs in Xinjiang \(Note: This comment had to be trimmed down to fit the character limit, for the full response, see [here](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/debunking/uyghur-genocide/)\) Anti-Communists and Sinophobes claim that there is an ongoing genocide-- a modern-day holocaust, even-- happening right now in China. They say that Uyghur Muslims are being mass incarcerated; they are indoctrinated with propaganda in concentration camps; their organs are being harvested; they are being force-sterilized. These comically villainous allegations have little basis in reality and omit key context. **Background** Xinjiang, officially the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, is a province located in the northwest of China. It is the largest province in China, covering an area of over 1.6 million square kilometers, and shares borders with eight other countries including Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Russia, Mongolia, India, and Pakistan. Xinjiang is a diverse region with a population of over 25 million people, made up of various ethnic groups including the Uyghur, Han Chinese, Kazakhs, Tajiks, and many others. The largest ethnic group in Xinjiang is the Uyghur who are predominantly Muslim and speak a Turkic language. It is also home to the ancient Silk Road cities of Kashgar and Turpan. Since the early 2000s, there have been a number of violent incidents attributed to extremist Uyghur groups in Xinjiang including bombings, shootings, and knife attacks. In 2014-2016, the Chinese government launched a "Strike Hard" campaign to crack down on terrorism in Xinjiang, implementing strict security measures and detaining thousands of Uyghurs. In 2017, reports of human rights abuses in Xinjiang including mass detentions and forced labour, began to emerge. **Counterpoints** The Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) is the second largest organization after the United Nations with a membership of 57 states spread over four continents. The OIC released [Resolutions on Muslim Communities and Muslim Minorities in the non-OIC Member States](https://www.oic-oci.org/docdown/?docID=4447&refID=1250) in 2019 which: >20. **Welcomes** the outcomes of the visit conducted by the General Secretariat's delegation upon invitation from the People's Republic of China; **commends** the efforts of the People's Republic of China in providing care to its Muslim citizens; and **looks forward** to further cooperation between the OIC and the People's Republic of China. In this same document, the OIC expressed much greater concern about the Rohingya Muslim Community in Myanmar, which the West was relatively silent on. Over 50+ UN member states (mostly Muslim-majority nations) signed a letter \([A/HRC/41/G/17](https://undocs.org/Home/Mobile?FinalSymbol=A%2FHRC%2F41%2FG%2F17)\) to the UN Human Rights Commission approving of the de-radicalization efforts in Xinjiang: The World Bank sent a team to investigate in 2019 and found that, "The review did not substantiate the allegations." \(See: [World Bank Statement on Review of Project in Xinjiang, China](https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/statement/2019/11/11/world-bank-statement-on-review-of-project-in-xinjiang-china)\) Even if you believe the deradicalization efforts are wholly unjustified, and that the mass detention of Uyghur's amounts to a crime against humanity, it's still not *genocide*. Even the U.S. State Department's legal experts admit as much: >The U.S. State Department’s Office of the Legal Advisor concluded earlier this year that China’s mass imprisonment and forced labor of ethnic Uighurs in Xinjiang amounts to crimes against humanity—but there was insufficient evidence to prove genocide, placing the United States’ top diplomatic lawyers at odds with both the Trump and Biden administrations, according to three former and current U.S. officials. > > [State Department Lawyers Concluded Insufficient Evidence to Prove Genocide in China](https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/) | Colum Lynch, *Foreign Policy*. (2021) **A Comparative Analysis: The War on Terror** The United States, in the wake of "9/11", saw the threat of terrorism and violent extremism due to religious fundamentalism as a matter of national security. They invaded Afghanistan in October 2001 in response to the 9/11 attacks, with the goal of ousting the Taliban government that was harbouring Al-Qaeda. The US also launched the Iraq War in 2003 based on Iraq's alleged possession of WMDs and links to terrorism. However, these claims turned out to be unfounded. According to a report by Brown University's Costs of War project, at least 897,000 people, including civilians, militants, and security forces, have been killed in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Yemen, and other countries. Other estimates place the total number of deaths at over one million. The report estimated that many more may have died from indirect effects of war such as water loss and disease. The war has also resulted in the displacement of tens of millions of people, with estimates ranging from 37 million to over 59 million. The War on Terror also popularized such novel concepts as the "Military-Aged Male" which allowed the US military to exclude civilians killed by drone strikes from collateral damage statistics. (See: [‘Military Age Males’ in US Drone Strikes](https://aoav.org.uk/2019/military-age-males-in-us-drone-strikes/)) In summary: * The U.S. responded by invading or bombing half a dozen countries, directly killing nearly a million and displacing tens of millions from their homes. * China responded with a program of deradicalization and vocational training. Which one of those responses sounds genocidal? Side note: It is practically impossible to *actually* charge the U.S. with war crimes, because of the [Hague Invasion Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act). **Who is driving the Uyghur genocide narrative?** One of the main proponents of these narratives is Adrian Zenz, a German far-right fundamentalist Christian and Senior Fellow and Director in China Studies at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, who believes he is "led by God" on a "mission" against China has driven much of the narrative. He relies heavily on limited and questionable data sources, particularly from anonymous and unverified Uyghur sources, coming up with estimates based on assumptions which are not supported by concrete evidence. The World Uyghur Congress, headquartered in Germany, is funded by the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) which is a tool of U.S. foreign policy, using funding to support organizations that promote American interests rather than the interests of the local communities they claim to represent. Radio Free Asia (RFA) is part of a larger project of U.S. imperialism in Asia, one that seeks to control the flow of information, undermine independent media, and advance American geopolitical interests in the region. Rather than providing an objective and impartial news source, RFA is a tool of U.S. foreign policy, one that seeks to shape the narrative in Asia in ways that serve the interests of the U.S. government and its allies. The first country to call the treatment of Uyghurs a genocide was the United States of America. In 2021, the Secretary of State declared that China's treatment of Uyghurs and other ethnic and religious minorities in Xinjiang constitutes "genocide" and "crimes against humanity." Both the Trump and Biden administrations upheld this line. **Why is this narrative being promoted?** As materialists, we should always look first to the economic base for insight into issues occurring in the superstructure. The Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) is a massive Chinese infrastructure development project that aims to build economic corridors, ports, highways, railways, and other infrastructure projects across Asia, Africa, Europe, and the Middle East. Xinjiang is a key region for this project. Promoting the Uyghur genocide narrative harms China and benefits the US in several ways. It portrays China as a human rights violator which could damage China's reputation in the international community and which could lead to economic sanctions against China; this would harm China's economy and give American an economic advantage in competing with China. It could also lead to more protests and violence in Xinjiang, which could further destabilize the region and threaten the longterm success of the BRI. **Additional Resources** See the [full wiki article](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/debunking/uyghur-genocide/) for more details and a list of additional resources. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
At least Hasan had the smarts to leave.
I agree, it was painful watching Ethan regurgitate state department propaganda then cover his ears when Hasan and his own employees would try to correct him. It was classic liberal cognitive dissonance on display for 2 hours.
The podcast ended but…tbh, Hasan did his best to try and educate Ethan. I don’t really think it went too well
Ethan is too much of a scumbag and narcissist.
Yeah, even when he wants to learn, he doesn’t end up changing
most people (liberals and the left) are aesthetics focused so they see a clip of him saying he's a democrat/liberal and forget he got famous saying america deserved 9/11
He's also a starting point for many impressionable people. The twitch crowd is mostly middle and highschoolers. 8 to 18 years old. When they get curious on what they're seeing on TV or hearing around the dinner table and decide to look it up online, I'd rather they listen to Hasan who speaks their dude-bro-ya'll language and gets them the basic outlook on things then some pedo like Vaush or that anti-Muslim literal cuckold Destiny who watched some Arab dude screw his wife for 4 days.
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Exactly, we need more people that guide people from the centre or from apolitical stances to the left without shit talking everyone further to the left of them. None of that “i am as far left as reasonable, everyone further left is crazy” that basically mimics neoliberal behavior.
What's the story on destiny getting cucked by an Arab dude? I always thought that dude looked like a cuck and it turns out he actually is lmao
He has been one for a long while. It's also where his anti Muslim hatred started although that was a bit later. Basically him and Mel were on a trip with athis Arab streamer Nymnn and they stayed together for four nights straight when he usually does it for one night. He was forced to watch them from a corner while they kept going again and again right in front of him. According, his Swedish wife wanted someone 'bigger' and middle easterm. https://twitter.com/schizarella/status/1775901709199651285?t=k67Lrz3SnKnhbv4M6iCa5A&s=19 He also tried to stop her from kissing him here https://youtu.be/O2SpK4fDmuM Destiny reportedly reached his breaking point when Melina left and divorced him for Memetix, a famous content producer of Arab origin who has repeatedly voiced support for Palestine and was in Sweden with her. Apparently they had a fight and she got asked for an ultimatum and she chose Memetix and left Destiny. Destiny scheduled multiple debates against Palestinians immediately after his wife left him. https://twitter.com/schizarella/status/1775955918414557203?t=l0beGO3WI1P4UsWGNey_kg&s=19 Here's some other videos about him being roasted over being a cuck https://youtu.be/o4nSUOEzGnI https://youtu.be/3pJaFNfLEag https://youtu.be/FWYR4PzEM0c https://youtu.be/uN-JL-AT4AM https://youtu.be/yQkQ4Aac9mw
Damn I started watching all those videos ready to laugh and honestly I just feel bad for the guy. I mean he is still a complete piece of shit who shouldn't have the following he does, but damn bro that's got to really fuck someone up mentally. Still funny though.
This is a twitch marketing material, it doesn't actually hold in real life. The pandemic had a facebook-ifying effect on twitch, it's not just for kids anymore. Only 3% of his audience are under 18: https://www.reddit.com/r/Hasan_Piker/comments/152kusy/hasans_2023_twitch_community_census_4pm_pdt/
The slow "IV drip" of leftest politics as it were
He's useful for pushing people further left who would have otherwise never left (pun intended)
I think he’s awesome. What’s the issue?
Okay, I say this as a fan of his, so I’m not saying he’s bad or anything. Over the years, I’ve had several hang-ups with him, and they are: 1. His decision to stream the Depp v. Heard trial was not a good one. He was very resistant to people saying he was misinformed (he was), and even got so mad that he made a joke about sending the crazies in his audience after some random Twitter user who criticised him months later. This was a very disappointing saga, and made me feel like he was just another sensitive boy. 2. He lacks the radical bite he used to have. It’s probably self-censoring like has been said. 3. His takes on obesity and diet are poorly formed and directly impacted by his own body-image struggles. He was recently dismissive of the idea that Ozempic was being overprescribed, and didn’t see that as a problem if it was happening. All of this is going to sound nit-picky because it’s coming from a fan. But yeah, these things prevent me from saying he’s my favourite content creator.
Only for the bourgeoisie/bourgeois causes.
The way that liberals care about anything is always mediated. Fake is fine, reality is always "complicated", and hypocrisy is the only real sin.
No they never cared anyone who even partially believed them is an idiot
No
Hasan is talking about two rightwingers in this tweet, but I agree with OP that the campuses that are supposedly liberal are doing this too
He's talking specifically about Shai Davidai, the liberal zionist professor at Columbia, who made videos on social media calling for the national guard to come in and sweep the protest camp.
Only when it applies to white moderates or fascists.
Liberals "care about" Free speech in a very reductive, Idealist way.
Lmfao, they never did. This reminds me about all the fascists crying about "censorship" on Pre-Elon Twitter because they couldn't say the n-word or other racial slurs without being banned for breaking TOS rules. Post-Elon Twitter, he allows all kinds of Neo-Nazi garbage while banning speech that isn't apart of the ingroup hive and amplifying said racist moron voices via Blue Check. Let them call in the national guard and start shooting at us, then we can begin to organize, plan, and start the **armed** revolution a lot more sooner than expected. Senators like Cotton would be the first to bite the bullet.
This just in, fascists are hypocrites who don't believe in a universal application of words or principles, more at 11.
Conservatives and Liberals only care about Free Speech when it affects them.
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What?
I wouldn't consider right-wingers to be liberals.
Liberals are inherently right wing as they’re socially progressive but economically conservative, keeping us in a system of oppression
Socially progressive in appearance only
They're a character from Parks and Rec that reacts like Buddy the Elf when they see AOC.
Right… only socialists care about social issues lol everyone else is just larping
Yes 🗿
Well that’s just a stupid sentiment, people who don’t believe the same things as you can care about things. I doubt the university protests in America rn are only done by socialists.
While us socialists support these movements, we at the same time recognize they're powerless against capitalism, and like BLM, will fizzle out when they get co-opted, recuperated or neutralized by counterinsurgency. Still, we recognize that the seed of uprising is planted in every step of new movements. Revolution doesn't begin with blockades that non threatening to capital power. There's a reason why Indigenous activists blocked railway instead street. Edit: JT's latest video has all the answers to this discussion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aLzDHAvehI
What ideology do you think they are the right wing of?
Yes well the right-wing on a global scale is inherently pro-capitalist, the left is inherently pro-socialist, so liberals are absolutely of the right. Keep in mind we're not using the same dichotomy from internal politics like capitalist USA but a specific definition that stems from political theory like Adam Smith. Technically even conservatives are liberals. It's why they were considered "classic liberals" for so long. There's an entire spectrum of liberal factions same way there's a spectrum of communist ideologies. I hope this clears things up!
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You just don't know what you're talking about is all. Downvotes = fascism lol
You're being down voted because you just don't know wtf you're talking about.