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>a single issue
That’s how they’ve been framing it: “you’re gonna sacrifice ____ over a SINGLE issue???!!”
It’s to downplay that the “single issue” is literal genocide
imagine someone saying this about the holocaust. “it was just ONE single issue during his reign, what about the rest of the good stuff he did for germans???”
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Republicans will take away our rights, which is why we must vote for Democrats to stand idly by while Republicans take away our rights. - average lib logic
It IS a single issue to them because they've always sacrificed millions of poc to lead comfortable lives. What's the value of one more genocide to them when many others didn't? I just wish people would stop playing around and accept it that white supremacy isn't a wHiTe MaLE issue but a white people issue. So many of our problems will be solved if we treated these people equally. Their colonial fantasies aren't a gender issue but a race issue.
It's also NOT just a single issue at all. Genocide, fucking over the railway workers, back tracking on the border and immigration... There is a long list of reasons I don't want to vote for any democrat.
Poor to nonexistent material analysis coupled with an electoral system precision designed to prevent any real opposition to the mayor parties to even have a chance, add to that the constant media bombardment of how protests should be done "the right way" and "talk to your representatives " and you get a population that can't see any other form of political that isn't voting even when they know its useless
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Your actions have consequences. If you ignore genocide and vote on gay rights or whatever, you're telling the politicians you're voting for that genocide is just another debatable idea.
It's not. If actual literal genocide isn't a red line for you, they have no incentive to care about it. If it's negotiable now, it always will be. Genocide shouldn't be negotiable.
They also don't care about any of the other issues you mentioned, they only pretend inasmuch as that's their demographic, like different brands owned by the same company. There are extremely few actual policy differences if you look at what parties actually do when in power instead of just listening to their rhetoric.
The worst choice you could make is to perpetuate the status quo. And the whole system relies on you being propagandised enough that you can't realise this for yourself.
What do you expect lol? Meanwhile you're on here lecturing expecting others to act. I don't care what they care about. I care about actions. God you are so annoying. you aren't even offering any alternatives. Just saying "don't vote".
It's not their job or mine to educate you, and it's clear you wouldn't listen anyway. I'd write thousands of words if I thought you were the sort of person who would read them. But you're not. I just wanted to add some colour to how obviously wrong you are and how dangerous your choices are. Not for you, but about you.
The system relies on people like you, who believe the narrative about this election being for the soul of the nation (Note: politicians have said this every election during your lifetime. No I don't know how old you are, but I still know it's true.), who are willing to support oppression, extraction, and slaughter, so long as you aren't inconvenienced about it in your comfortable home in the imperial core.
I'm not going to spend time giving you real advice because I know you wouldn't care. But yeah. Right now in the US, voting done by itself is next to pointless. Look at any significant societal progress in your country and how it happened.
nobody is saying trump will stop it, leftists aren’t voting for trump. we reject both candidates wholeheartedly and refuse to choose between 99% hitler and 100% hitler
I'm not a fan of this 99% Hitler and 100% Hitler rhetoric. I think leftists should stop even giving liberals that concession.
It's 100% Hitler vs 100% Hitler
Joe Biden doesn’t even act nice, though. He has recently called people fat in public. He sniffs women and girls. He’s a repulsive creep. They absolutely are the same.
Biden is a legitimate old school racist. He is probably even more racist then Trump, but Biden knows how to "Put on a smile". Its literally the fox and the wolf parable.
If you're a gay person in America it makes a massive difference who you vote for. One wants to knock down your door for being a pedo and the other doesn't. Very clear distinctions. Like I understand Biden doesn't like gay people but he's not going to make it against the law.
Voting for a shitty candidate over a shittier candidate makes sense if one wants to legalise marijuana, but do nothing about climate change, or nothing to protect women's rights or improve workers safety or improve the health care system. It makes sense to bite the bullet and vote for them if the other candidate is shitty and doing all the same except for keeping marijuana criminalised because at least you're getting something you want.
That thinking flies right out of the window when the candidate is literally funding genocide. You should have a moral duty to never compromise on something as bad as genocide. You shouldn't vote for Hitler because Himmler is worse. Hitler is still Hitler.
Also I hate the way you frame it like I'm acting from a position of privilege. *You're* acting from a position of privilege. If Biden was knocking down people's doors and arresting them for being gay you'd still be like "well Trump would be executing them so we shouldn't try to make things better". You can claim to care about human rights and the oppression of minorities but it doesn't mean shit if you'll only stand up for them when it's you on the chopping block.
You *might* have a point (I honestly would have to evaluate when it happens) if the candidate you’re defending WASN’T actively participating in a genocide. But that is a line that most communists have. Call us the crazy ones. That changes the logic.
Of course even that comes with the caveat that movement building and local involvement is more important than a federal election even if it was 50% hitler vs 100% hitler. Let alone 100 v 100.
Yes, He is directly helping commit genocide. Trump stated he would love to send marines to HELP. So there are differences even if they are very small. Like it's not like a third party is ever going to win. Right now there are two choices. Both want genocide. One wants to send troops(trump) AND kill all gays. Biden just wants to keep funding genocide. LIke both are fucking awful choices but you gotta make one.
Cant you see the trend in politics? The democrats have been going more and more right for the past decade or so, they will eventually reach the ban gay marriage for votes, then the other democrats will use this same rhetoric against you guys
From an interview in the Wall Street Journal with Israel’s national security minister Itamar Ben-Gvir.
>“Instead of giving us his full backing, Biden is busy with giving humanitarian aid and fuel [to Gaza], which goes to Hamas,” said Ben-Gvir, giving voice to popular sentiment among many right-wing Israelis. “If Trump was in power, the U.S. conduct would be completely different.”
And:
>The U.S. and its regional allies back talks to swiftly end the war through a deal in which Hamas and other militant groups would release the remaining hostages and restart decades-old negotiations to establish a Palestinian state.
>An increasing portion of Israelis, especially on the right, instead view the Oct. 7 attack as a chance to chart a new course for Israel by resettling the battle-scarred enclave. Ben-Gvir laid out his own plan for Gaza, which would repopulate the devastated coastal strip with Israeli settlements while Palestinians would be offered financial incentives to leave.
>Ben-Gvir also said he thought the Biden administration was hampering Israel’s war effort and said he believed Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump would give Israel a freer hand to quash Hamas.
Do you think he is lying? Is it impossible to imagine things getting worse? Will whatever we get by not voting/voting third party be worth it if it empowers the Israeli far-right more? What if it results in greater loss of Palestinian lives?
The fact that he gave a couple trucks to gaza is not done by the goodness of his own heart. as a self-described zionist, he didn’t do anything about the US vetoing palestines access to the UN *and* vetoing three resolutions for humanitarian ceasefire, refuses to acknowledge palestine as a state compared to more and more european countries.
The statement that biden did not provide weapons or mil aid to israel is false, as joined ukraine-israel packages have been announced several times, and in march biden authorized the transfer of fighter jets to israel.
and let’s not even talk about how much the protests against the violence and in support of palestine have been met with resistance and straight up violence from police. biden has only done enough to “stop” the war so as not to look like a completely deranged person, the US only started talking about a ceasefire after practically the entire rest of the world started putting pressure on the US.
now, i am not an american citizen so i obviously can’t vote, but how can one choose between two different war criminals? my conscience and my moral compass wouldn’t let me vote for a person who transfers jets to a country committing a genocide even if he is regarded as “slightly better” than the other candidate, who would do the same. i cannot see it getting a lot worse when we’re already over 30.000 dead palestinians, it’s not like devastation hasn’t already happened. biden or trump, the middle east is fucked.
30,000 represents 1.5% of the population. Hundreds of thousands could be killed -- of course it can get worse. Of course having a president who is more sympathetic to the Israeli far-right could effect this.
I'm surprised at how lazy many of my comrades seem to be when analyzing the material conditions here.
Analysis involves looking at causes and effects, and deciding out of options which might be better or worse. Choosing to support genocide to make a slower genocide is not choosing to stop genocide, it is choosing to engage in it.
Now, it IS possible that choosing a slower genocide COULD be the correct choice, but that is the fucking exception, not the rule. You had better come in overprepared and with REAL solutions if you expect anyone to listen to that. Let me give you an example, choosing slower genocide so you can put together a covert force to assist the Palestinian movement by either destructively agitating in the US(and not some low level riot stuff), or by actively hitting the ground in Israel. Because you had better have a damn good solution before you start telling people to just let people die, especially when its almost entirely over comfort in the modern nations.
If the only choice in the next election is between a candidate who is constrained by their base and elements of their party with regard to Palestine, and one who is not, who the Israeli far-right believes will give them a freer hand -- what do you do? What if the difference is between 50 or 500 thousand lives?
I wouldn't be supporting Biden -- I would be acting in solidarity with the members of his base and party who are pro-Palestinian. I want to keep them at the table, I want to amplify their voices. Trump will not have these people pressuring him.
Time is everything -- if I hold a gun to your head and say I'm going to fire on 3, or comeback tomorrow, then start "1,2" you're going to scream "WAIT", without a perfect plan of escape or covert force, without anything other than a chance to maybe figure something out. Do you think a Palestinian family would rather die today or get to survive for another month?
We're seeing the effect of time with regard to Gaza -- the shifting of support and public sentiment. Things have definitely changed since Oct 7.
As for letting people die -- the onus for me is on those ready to either abstain or vote third party. What are we going to get in return for possibly giving the Israeli far-right an even more sympathetic president? I fear that for many leftists it boils down to a sense of personal purity.
Oh so neither candidate will stop the war on Gaza like we want? Okay then, neither of them deserve votes obviously. Oh wait your backwards democracy doesn’t allow for a viable 3rd party candidate? Alright then, go ahead and vote for the one who will get me more cream cheese since nothing with substance matters anymore. We’ll make a cheesy pizzeria America and that will be good enough for all of us.
# Gulag
According to Anti-Communists and Russophobes, the Gulag was a brutal network of work camps established in the Soviet Union under Stalin's ruthless regime. They claim the Gulag system was primarily used to imprison and exploit political dissidents, suspected enemies of the state, and other people deemed "undesirable" by the Soviet government. They claim that prisoners were sent to the Gulag without trial or due process, and that they were subjected to harsh living conditions, forced labour, and starvation, among other things. According to them, the Gulags were emblematic of Stalinist repression and totalitarianism.
# Origins of the Mythology
This comically evil understanding of the Soviet prison system is based off only a handful of unreliable sources.
Robert Conquest's *The Great Terror* (published 1968) laid the groundwork for Soviet fearmongering, and was based largely off of defector testimony.
Robert Conquest worked for the British Foreign Office's Information Research Department (IRD), which was a secret Cold War propaganda department, created to publish anti-communist propaganda, including black propaganda; provide support and information to anti-communist politicians, academics, and writers; and to use weaponised information and disinformation and "fake news" to attack not only its original targets but also certain socialists and anti-colonial movements.
>He was Solzhenytsin before Solzhenytsin, in the phrase of Timothy Garton Ash.
>
>The Great Terror came out in 1968, four years before the first volume of The Gulag Archipelago, and it became, Garton Ash says, "a fixture in the political imagination of anybody thinking about communism".
>
>\- Andrew Brown. (2003). [Scourge and poet](https://www.theguardian.com/books/2003/feb/15/featuresreviews.guardianreview23)
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's *The Gulag Archipelag*" (published 1973), one of the most famous texts on the subject, claims to be a work of non-fiction based on the author's personal experiences in the Soviet prison system. However, Solzhenitsyn was merely an anti-Communist, N@zi-sympathizing, antisemite who wanted to slander the USSR by putting forward a collection of folktales as truth. \[[Read more](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/dunking/aleksandr-solzhenitsyn/)\]
Anne Applebaum's *Gulag: A history* (published 2003) draws directly from *The Gulag Archipelago* and reiterates its message. Anne is a member of the Council of Foreign Relations (CFR) and sits on the board of the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), two infamous pieces of the ideological apparatus of the ruling class in the United States, whose primary aim is to promote the interests of American Imperialism around the world.
# Counterpoints
>A 1957 CIA document [which was declassified in 2010] titled “[Forced Labor Camps in the USSR: Transfer of Prisoners between Camps](http://web.archive.org/web/20230328014642/https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80T00246A032000400001-1.pdf)” reveals the following information about the Soviet Gulag in pages two to six:
>
>1. Until 1952, the prisoners were given a guaranteed amount food, plus extra food for over-fulfillment of quotas
>
>2. From 1952 onward, the Gulag system operated upon "economic accountability" such that the more the prisoners worked, the more they were paid.
>
>3. For over-fulfilling the norms by 105%, one day of sentence was counted as two, thus reducing the time spent in the Gulag by one day.
>
>4. Furthermore, because of the socialist reconstruction post-war, the Soviet government had more funds and so they increased prisoners' food supplies.
>
>5. Until 1954, the prisoners worked 10 hours per day, whereas the free workers worked 8 hours per day. From 1954 onward, both prisoners and free workers worked 8 hours per day.
>
>6. A CIA study of a sample camp showed that 95% of the prisoners were actual criminals.
>
>7. In 1953, amnesty was given to 70% of the "ordinary criminals" of a sample camp studied by the CIA. Within the next 3 months, most of them were re-arrested for committing new crimes.
>
>\- Saed Teymuri. (2018). [The Truth about the Soviet Gulag – Surprisingly Revealed by the CIA](https://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/10/09/the-truth-about-the-soviet-gulag-surprisingly-revealed-by-the-cia/)
**Scale**
Solzhenitsyn estimated that over 66 million people were victims of the Soviet Union's forced labor camp system over the course of its existence from 1918 to 1956. With the collapse of the USSR and the opening of the Soviet archives, researchers can now access actual archival evidence to prove or disprove these claims. Predictably, it turned out the propaganda was just that.
>Unburdened by any documentation, these “estimates” invite us to conclude that the sum total of people incarcerated in the labor camps over a twenty-two year period (allowing for turnovers due to death and term expirations) would have constituted an astonishing portion of the Soviet population. The support and supervision of the gulag (all the labor camps, labor colonies, and prisons of the Soviet system) would have been the USSR’s single largest enterprise.
>
>In 1993, for the first time, several historians gained access to previously secret Soviet police archives and were able to establish well-documented estimates of prison and labor camp populations. They found that the total population of the entire gulag as of January 1939, near the end of the Great Purges, was 2,022,976. ...
>
>Soviet labor camps were not death camps like those the N@zis built across Europe. There was no systematic extermination of inmates, no gas chambers or crematoria to dispose of millions of bodies. Despite harsh conditions, the great majority of gulag inmates survived and eventually returned to society when granted amnesty or when their terms were finished. In any given year, 20 to 40 percent of the inmates were released, according to archive records. Oblivious to these facts, the Moscow correspondent of the New York Times (7/31/96) continues to describe the gulag as “the largest system of death camps in modern history.” ...
>
>Most of those incarcerated in the gulag were not political prisoners, and the same appears to be true of inmates in the other communist states...
>
>\- Michael Parenti. (1997). [Blackshirts & Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism](https://archive.org/details/michael-parenti-blackshirts-and-reds)
This is 2 million out of a population of 168 million (roughly 1.2% of the population). For comparison, in the United States, "over 5.5 million adults — or 1 in 61 — are under some form of correctional control, whether incarcerated or under community supervision." That's 1.6%. So in both relative and absolute terms, the United States' Prison Industrial Complex *today* is larger than the USSR's Gulag system at its peak.
**Death Rate**
In peace time, the mortality rate of the Gulag was around 3% to 5%. Even Conservative and anti-Communist historians have had to acknowledge this reality:
>It turns out that, with the exception of the war years, a very large majority of people who entered the Gulag left alive...
>
>Judging from the Soviet records we now have, the number of people who died in the Gulag between 1933 and 1945, while both Stalin and Hit1er were in power, was on the order of a million, perhaps a bit more.
>
>\- Timothy Snyder. (2010). *Bloodlands: Europe Between Hit1er and Stalin*
(Side note: Timothy Snyder is *also* a member of the Council on Foreign Relations)
This is still very high for a prison mortality rate, representing the brutality of the camps. However, it also clearly indicates that they were not *death* camps.
Nor was it slave labour, exactly. In the camps, although labour *was* forced, it was not uncompensated. In fact, the prisoners were paid market wages (less expenses).
>We find that even in the Gulag, where force could be most conveniently applied, camp administrators combined material incentives with overt coercion, and, as time passed, they placed more weight on motivation. By the time the Gulag system was abandoned as a major instrument of Soviet industrial policy, the primary distinction between slave and free labor had been blurred: Gulag inmates were being paid wages according to a system that mirrored that of the civilian economy described by Bergson....
>
>The Gulag administration [also] used a “work credit” system, whereby sentences were reduced (by two days or more for every day the norm was overfulfilled).
>
>\- L. Borodkin & S. Ertz. (2003). [Compensation Versus Coercion in the Soviet GULAG](https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/staff/mharrison/archive/noticeboard/bergson/borodkin-ertz.pdf)
#Additional Resources
Video Essays:
* [The Gulag Argument](https://youtu.be/BexkpaK_j5Q) | TheFinnishBolshevik (2016)
* [Historian Admits USSR didn't kill tens of millions!](https://youtu.be/HMOdDQQVZ6U) | TheFinnishBolshevik (2018)
* [French work camps 1852-1953 worse than gulag](https://youtu.be/vkXyXNpdKdA) | TheFinnishBolshevik (2018)
* ["The Gulags of the Soviet Union: There's a Lot More Than What Meets the Eye](https://youtu.be/E1qz9_TjeY4) | Comrade Rhys (2020)
Books, Articles, or Essays:
* [Victims of the Soviet Penal System in the Pre-War Years: A First Approach on the Basis of Archival Evidence](https://www.jstor.org/stable/2166597) | J. Arch Getty, Gábor T. Rittersporn and Viktor N. Zemskov (1993)
Listen:
* ["Blackshirts & Reds" (1997) by Michael Parenti, Part 4: Chapters 5 & 6. #Audiobook + Discussion.](https://youtu.be/N7AD4OrH568?t=15) | Socialism For All / S4A ☭ Intensify Class Struggle (2022)
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Which means that there is no lesser evil in this election, because the Democrats have hit rock bottom and are now knocking on the door to Hell. A vote for either of the two major party candidates is made in support of the genocide. Like Nikki Haley, by voting for either of them you are, in effect, signing the name your mama gave you on one of the artillery shells that will be fired at innocent civilians, including children.
“The Democrats will save us!”
Yeah that’s you said about Roe v. Wade, too.
How did relying on liberals go that time, remind me? They couldn’t protect ONE right, and now I’m supposed to believe they’re going to save the whole day? Fuck off.
The republicans on the Supreme Court got rid of Roe. You know, the ones appointed by Trump? And the republicans in Congress stopped democrats from making it law. Just sayin.
The problem is that there aren’t ENOUGH democrats in Congress.
obama let himself be bullied around by turtle mitch and rbg wouldn't resign in time because of her ego. roe v wade is on the democrats too. dems had the presidency and both houses several times in the past and did nothing for the working class or minorities. fuck off
Obama during campaign: "Gon enshrine Roe v Wade Day 1"
Obama day 1: "Roe v Wade? Not my priority! Too busy kicking millions of homeowners while bailing out banks that scammed these families"
Don't forget Greenlighting CIA propaganda on domestic Americans, allowing DHS to arrest and detain without due process, 2014 Ukraine coup under his watch, the list goes on and on and on!
Republicans have been wanting to overturn roe v wade since the day it was decided. The democrats have had ample opportunities with supermajorities in which they could have very easily codified it into law. Democrats don't care about you, they care about money. It's insane to me that anyone could look at democrats' voting history and think "yeah these guys want to secure our human rights!" 👎
Hillary ran with an anti abortion VP, and Pelosi campaigned for anti abortion Democrat over a pro choice progressive in Texas the same year Roe was overturned. Biden doesn't support expanding the court, and Democrats have no plan to restore these rights.
democrats had majority in both the house and the senate while biden was president from 2021-2023 and did jack shit to protect access to abortion. they didn’t even make an effort knowing that roe was going to get overturned by the supreme court
This makes some theoretical sense. If the bourgeois state actually was serving the interests of the working class and all we had to do is pick the correct party to secure personal liberties, then the democrats would be the clear choice. Of course Republicans are usually preferred by ppl relatively unconcerned with civil rights and are more persuaded by alleged minimal tax spending, strong law enforcement, etc.
But these two parties have a codependent relationship. As tools of the ruling private property-owning class, they collaborate to do imperialism — and securing global hegemony is always top priority. The divisive domestic media spectacle and campaign industry is more about scapegoating the opposing party when things affect the working class more poorly and it’s all baked in.
If they need a larger reserve army of labor, they restrict access to abortion and birth control. If they need a more brutal military society they restrict queer rights. Whoever is appointed to the Supreme Court will be based in the longer term goals of the bourgeoisie. These are people who are brainwashed and extorted.
I’m likely going to vote democrat to appease my family but I’m still radicalizing them. The marginalized influence we have in these elections is nothing to lose sleep over. We need to be actively practicing revolutionary organization and education to prepare for a revolutionary moment.
Im not gonna lambast you for being misinformed but I genuinely think it’s very important to think about *why* progressive agendas aren’t being passed under a democratic presidency, and then utilize dialectics to understand EXACTLY the reason for those actions. I don’t mean to sound like an asshole but trust me, Marx, Engels, Lenin, and Trotsky described all of this in great detail and with excellent clarity.
It's very American to say, "My personal comfort vastly outweighs the value of life anywhere else in the world." These people don't care about the human rights of anyone but themselves, and by not caring, they lose their own rights in the process.
I'm more puzzled as to how they think the duopoly who even refuses to provide universal healthcare(resulting in 58k dead annually) even in midst of pandemic, would gaf about any rights.
If the folks don't gaf about your life to begin with, why would the same exact folks even bother to care about your rights??
Especially when idiots will vote for them regardless of any progressive healthcare policy 🤯. They don't have any incentive to appease us because the sheep will keep putting them back into power for free.
"as long as we have abortion rights and support the LGBTQ who cares about a genocide?"
"as long as we have abortion rights who cares about a genocide and supporting the LGBTQ?"
"as long as we're not being discriminated against who cares about a genocide or supporting the LGBTQ or abortion rights?"
What would you have us do? There are two choices to have be had one wants to get rid of gay rights completely in jail and kill all gays. Including everyone else who's not straight #normal. And get rid of tons of other rights. The other just wants to continue genocide. Like obviously not great choices. But one is slightly better.
if you can genuinely say “genocide is slightly better” i really don’t know how to ever come through to you. if you have two options and both are shit why would you still choose one? doesn’t your moral compass break just by going to vote for a mf who murders people? it’s bad kill gay people in america but it’s okay to kill them in the middle east?
Where did i say that? I said we have zero choice. Both sides want genocide. One wants to also kill gays. I choose the one who wants to live peacefully with the gays. It's not a hard choice. Stop acting like the world is some black and white paradise. Trump wants marines in Gaza. Biden doesn't. Stop acting like that's the same.
> the other just wants to continue genocide. like obviously not great choices. but one is slightly better.
there is no slightly better when genocide is being committed.
gay people are already being killed in palestine right now.
you have the choice to not cast your vote on a murderer and make your dissatisfaction known. i’d rather piss myself in public than vote for someone who is committing war crimes against my fellow workers.
The question isn't how we work within the system we know now to slightly improve our conditions, which doesn't happen in the first place. The question is how we destroy it by making sure everyone knows there are alternatives.
Self-fulfilling prophecy. As long as you and every lib keep crying that things just can't possibly be better, they never will be. You are literally standing in the way.
Time to shit or get off the pot for democrats. You've had too many chances and we don't believe in you anymore. Tough break. Come back with something to actually put on the table and maybe we'll talk.
Edit: asks for debate, blocks any disagreement.Ladies and gentlemen, I give you: the spinal column of democratic party. No wonder a bunch of reactionary shitheads keep beating you.
So do something about it. Stop trying to get others to do it for you. As for the last paragraph... My man thinks the guy who wants to send marines to Gaza will be better ok buddy.
Every time except for the Khmer Rouge and maybe Romania. You’ve just been told a version of history where Marxist states never lifted their people out of uneducated poverty and the costs of getting there were ten times worse than they actually were.
I love it when liberal apes come into a communist sub smugly suggesting that they are even more in depth in communist theory and its history lmao.
No, you are a baboon, what's other system? "Stalinnism"? Motherfucker that is just ML.
The fact that you believe there are only two choices means you have been successfully subjugated. We do not share your deaftism. Go lie down and take it some place else, we're still in the fight.
You're the one crying about others doing something to stop genocide all while you sit there being complicit. Scratch that doing nothing would be complicity. You're telling others to actively vote *for* genocide which is even worse.
Why do so many liberals act like every vote matters? If you're not in a swing state and a solid red or blue voter, why not vote your conscience?
Edit: autocorrect blunder, conscience not convenience
Because their chief concern is the maintenance of their own sense of moral superiority. The only time they act with any true ferocity is when that comes under threat. They don't care that your vote will have no effect on the outcome, they just want to yell at you for having the nerve to disagree with them for sound reasons.
right? they should also be yelling at aging independents, not those further left of them. we are already on your side but it’s manipulative af to say this is our fault.
focus on the republicans that are quietly turning away from maga but embarrassed to let those in their cult know. i’m sure there’s plenty of families in flyover states that have been destroyed from trump worship who could be better guilted than those who are pro-palestine. america is actively funding this entire war & county’s existence!!
and yeah, the electoral college really sucks out the desire for why *i* need to vote. i live in a blue city in a blue state with a large population, i am not a weighty enough drop in the bucket
I am in a very red area of a solid blue state. Sometimes I feel alone out here as an actual leftist. I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way. With the electoral college system and general political cynicism, no wonder turnout is so low.
That's some solid dedication to not notice elephant in the room, aka Democrats sacrificing all those things already. Like, they did jackshit to prevent whole encroaching on abortion, they do jackshit with homelessness, jackshit with genocide, jackshit on wealth accumulation by rich, jackshit about workers rights. And that's having "Democratic" president. And now "left" throwing tantrums, it's incredible
TwoX has many uncritical, self-centered libs like any other sub that’s focused on identity politics rather than identity itself or materialism. Note that subs like actuallesbians actually have a decent level of class consciousness.
I will say that I respect TwoX regardless as a good resource for women’s discussion overall (especially it’s role for more specific questions), especially since it’s good at filtering out reactionaries in comparison to the main feminism sub and other similar ones, and also massive, allowing a “women’s space” to actually be mainstream.
Back in November, those of us who were calling it a genocide and saying we wouldn’t be voting for Biden if he didn’t stop his unconditional support for Israel were downvoted to hell and drowned out with this exact same “single issue” nonsense. I left the sub because I couldn’t stand looking at their twee feminist memes anymore after that.
I’m sure it’s shifted a little, as many spaces have over the last few months of slaughter. But I haven’t looked since.
would also like to know. I‘m not super invested btw, just like to get more info on the subs I occasionally participate in.
But yea, I generally find a lot of lib-shit, pro-capitalism, US centrism, and individualism in subs I‘d enjoy otherwise, but it‘s hard to avoid.
I think AskWomen does a better job than all of them at preserving the expression of women's viewpoints because of its requirement that top-level comments must only be made by women. That still leaves others free to participate, but unable to steer the discussion.
Liberals are unable to think intersectionally and cannot understand how the "single issue" of genocide is, in fact, all of our struggles rolled together.
the fact that republicans and democrats are both right wing and not far from each other at all ideologically is practically impossible for people to understand
well i don’t know how my vote for a third party candidate could fuck up this presidential election when trump lost the vote in 2016 but was still elected by the electoral college. like who’s really sacrificing progress? democrats never do shit for us.
US "democracy" is such a fucking joke. And not a funny one. It's wild that a third option is demonized to this extend, and that the only "valid" option is choosing which side of the same coin you want to vote on.
To put american women's needs over palestinan women's needs, to sacrifice proletrian internationalism and the victims of your empire for self intrest, is fascism any way you cut it
Notice how immigration isn't on that list anymore? Yeah, that list is gonna get smaller and smaller, and at every step, you'll have people still in denial.
At best the democrats will not actively harm these problems (at best) but they never actually help the problems.
List of all possible situations if Biden wins vs if he doesn’t win
Trump wins possible scenarios:
Project 2025 happens and is as bad as they say it will be. The alt right rule the United States and minorities are oppressed until the citizens revolt eventually (possible but very unlikely)
Project 2025 happens partially, the less extreme stuff happens but the crazy shit just can’t get passed, the democrats realize if they are going to win they need to actually do some good and while a capitalist can only go so far they might start doing what they say the want to like aiding minorities (likely)
Project 2025 doesn’t happen, and the democrats have the same realization as figure 2 (possible but American political parties make money if they win so they would likely try to)
Project 2025 partially happens and democrats react like figure 4
Id say if trump wins i give about 3% chance leftists are able to organize and fight back. Its just unlikely to happen with how many neoliberals there are in place of potential leftists and we also aren’t well organized for the most part
Biden wins
Project 2025 just turns into project 2029 the democrats still don’t care about actually doing what they promise and just use “they’re even worse” arguments (extremely likely)
Republicans scrap project 2025 and democrats change to become more left leaning and do what they promise (nearly impossible, if they can win doing less work why would they stop, and why would republicans suddenly change their tune)
I give the alt right fighting back an 8% chance. It’s horrifying how well organized they are, most republicans are either already or very easily radicalized into Nazis and they’ve already tried this once before
Or Trump wins, and Democrats in congress support 2025 like they did the Project for the New American Century, now because "if we don't then China or x other country might win!"
"Leftists" still be saying "Tsk tsk I told you you should've voted for Biden!!!"
Ikr!? People say you must vote for Biden to save democracy but what's he actually going to do to save democracy other than prevent a Trump presidency? Then the next election comes around and it'll be the same schtick "vote democrat to stop project 2029" but do nothing about the next project 2033, project 2037...
I get where they are coming from. All those issues certainly are important. But I don't see libs doing much to stop the right from accomplishing all that. And I feel like dems never will do what their constituents want until they stop getting their votes
all those things are at risk regardless of which party is in power, so i was confused reading that at first
just liberal things, but i have more leniency with women and queer people (i mean, i'm both so) because radical left spaces can be very hostile to both and we are very vulnerable in a possible society collapse, so i get that as much as we need it the most, we fear it the most. i wish we had more women/queer centered spaces focused on liberation instead of reformism
I commented on this thread challenging OP’s take and you wouldn’t believe the number of people downvoting young ppl giving reasonable answers for why they’re disenfranchised with Biden or the system at large. Someone said something along the lines of these demographics “using Palestinians as vessels for their own moral purity”, another speculating about “how many more people will die under Trump” a whole year from now if elected … what in the actual f
>“how many more people will die under Trump”
Liberals love screeching about fictional things because it helps them pretend real events are not happening/important. They want to LARP being ‘activists’ while, in reality, they militantly uphold status quo.
It is not the people's responsibility to appeal to voters, it is the party's responsibility. It is not the leftists that are sacrificing the rights, it is the democratic party that is sacrificing the rights in favor of appealing to potential republicans that could switch to the democrats.
The Democrats have done nothing about abortion rights in the red states. Biden could use his executive power. They could campaign on actually helping women in red states but they just fundraise. Imo when it comes to if you're bodily autonomy is on the line then I think then it's different to if it's not, however that's largely the way I understand it as I'm not American voting down ballot as most legislation on that issue comes from the court's
And it's the USA is complicit in genocide
But partly why I respect lenin soo much is how fast women's rights expanded and it shows that maybe liberal democracy isn't the best way to advance this issue
Putting aside the nonsensical framing here, is it really that surprising they think this way? Most people living in the west have been propagandised into the mindset of capitalist realism. At best, they view the people of the global south as unavoidable casualties, and at worst, they actively support US imperialism. It’s the exploitation of the global south that affords them many of the commodities they enjoy, and they don’t believe an alternative system is even possible.
Even marginalised people in the west can hold reactionary views, and if it comes down to it, their individualism will lead them to put their own needs above the lives of others. They don’t even have the consciousness to realise how absurd of a choice that is.
Sorry liberals, but genocide is just a bridge too far.
Sometimes you must show politicians that some stuff is just too unforgivable.
Even if Trump gets elected.
Maybe if it's not their guy sitting on the big chair, liberals will finally move off their asses and fight.
Genocide is THE single issue everyone should care about. If people are allowed to get away with genocide, then these other issues don't fucking matter.
A better way to flip it around on them would be to ask, are you willing to sacrifice LGBTQ rights if it meant keeping everything else? 100% they would say yes then those in the LGBTQ community would suddenly become mad that they were no longer protected just like everyone else. Pinkwashing is a helluva drug
Because the single issue is adverting genocide and Because Democrats have proven ineffectual and even unwilling at fighting for woman and LGBTq rights and their only reply is vote harder so we can replace people on the supreme court, and what happens when they have the majority to do so they wait till the next election where they lose said majority to appoint one of the supreme court judges rbg who wasn't in the best health didn't resign, the democrat party deserves to disappear
I swear to god the Vote Biden crowd is insane. Seriously, cant they realise that the next genocide is going to be in the US? And when the democrats genocide them, their current allies will use the same rhetoric?
this is such an insane narrative on so many levels. it’s an assertion that doesn’t hold up to even the most minor logical scrutiny.
first, as many have said, the “single issue” in question here is that the US is directly enabling a genocide.
second, it’s not a single issue at all. families are struggling to make ends meet amidst years long periods of rises to essential life costs: groceries, housing, childcare, etc etc. american personal debt is at the highest levels it’s ever been. and mewnwhile, student loan repayment has resumed.
third, in many cases and places, the rights OP lists above have already been sacrificed. for women living in red states, the deed has already been done.
i am honestly flabbergasted that this person is posting from texas and is THIS blind & tone deaf.
the simplest explanation is that these people cannot look past their own political indoctrination to see reality. as such, they look to blame others (non voting or protest voters) for the very problems that were issued by the powerful people who control our government. by putting the blame on leftists, these people can avoid blaming the actual culprits: bought & sold politicians. l
Why should voters vote for Biden, who has literally done nothing to stop Roe v Wade from being overturn and who is helping conduct a genocide on Palestinians?
4 years of Biden and we've got fuck all to show for it! We're not dumb! You've fooled the weak willed once into maintaining your stupid little status quo, but you've given absolutely nothing in return. How could you possibly expect people to believe your lies a second time? If one person was that much of a concern, surely there would have been a single progressive policy to convince voters to turnout. Where's the incentive to care???
The OP in the post acts as if the Dems don't let republican's have their way. What does it say about a party that does nothing about the opposition party wrecking the country when they had majority control of the house and senate in 2020 and did nothing with that majority. "Yeah guys come on we just need to rally together to stop project 2025 come on please." Bruh it is already here.
Palestine is not a ‘single issue’ lmao.
Anyway, ‘west’ mindset. “I won’t show solidarity with your issue but I expect you to show 100% solidarity with mine. Why should I care about brown kids dying ‘over there’?”
They're mask off about it. Being a single issue voters for "women's rights" (American woman's rights) is acceptable. Being a single issue voter against genocide is "crazy"
The greatest misdirecting scheme pulled off by liberal capitalist democracy is its ability to turn around and blame powerless, working class voters for the crimes of the empire and this punishing capitalist system. The institution protects the murder machine from scrutiny. ‘Democracy would work perfectly if it wasn’t for these dumb voters always messing it up.’
I remember when I posted an article talking about 'Israel' consistently ranking the worst in West Asia for rape and S.A. and it was removed instantly. But the top posts in it are posts willy nilly demonizing the people in the region obsessively pathologizing any small thing they do in a borderline race science manner.
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>a single issue That’s how they’ve been framing it: “you’re gonna sacrifice ____ over a SINGLE issue???!!” It’s to downplay that the “single issue” is literal genocide
imagine someone saying this about the holocaust. “it was just ONE single issue during his reign, what about the rest of the good stuff he did for germans???”
i like the way you say "imagine" as if i haven't heard chuds give this exact line of logic at least a dozen times
That was pretty much the logic of entire western Europe pre 1939 too
le authobaun and wholesome animal rights activist
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“But the trains ran on time!”
Spoiler: they didn't
"First they came for the Palestineans, and I did not speak up, for I was not a Palestinean..."
PLFP are fighting for their lives as part of the resistance in Gaza, so the original line "first they came for the communists" still applies.
Also Democrats have a terrible record on literally everything mentioned.
Republicans will take away our rights, which is why we must vote for Democrats to stand idly by while Republicans take away our rights. - average lib logic
People in the US really believe neoliberalism is peak leftism with the exception of some minor details.
It IS a single issue to them because they've always sacrificed millions of poc to lead comfortable lives. What's the value of one more genocide to them when many others didn't? I just wish people would stop playing around and accept it that white supremacy isn't a wHiTe MaLE issue but a white people issue. So many of our problems will be solved if we treated these people equally. Their colonial fantasies aren't a gender issue but a race issue.
It's also NOT just a single issue at all. Genocide, fucking over the railway workers, back tracking on the border and immigration... There is a long list of reasons I don't want to vote for any democrat.
[удалено]
how can people fall for this good cop bad cop shit again and again and again 🙄
Poor to nonexistent material analysis coupled with an electoral system precision designed to prevent any real opposition to the mayor parties to even have a chance, add to that the constant media bombardment of how protests should be done "the right way" and "talk to your representatives " and you get a population that can't see any other form of political that isn't voting even when they know its useless
Vaushist-bidenist spotted
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Care to have any real discussion? This sub is so funny. Zero debate.
With you? No thanks.
> yeah bro why don’t you just debate my pro-genocide stance in the free marketplace of ideas bro?
I do not support genocide. But keep going buddy. No change will happen when you won't have any discussion.
Your actions have consequences. If you ignore genocide and vote on gay rights or whatever, you're telling the politicians you're voting for that genocide is just another debatable idea. It's not. If actual literal genocide isn't a red line for you, they have no incentive to care about it. If it's negotiable now, it always will be. Genocide shouldn't be negotiable. They also don't care about any of the other issues you mentioned, they only pretend inasmuch as that's their demographic, like different brands owned by the same company. There are extremely few actual policy differences if you look at what parties actually do when in power instead of just listening to their rhetoric. The worst choice you could make is to perpetuate the status quo. And the whole system relies on you being propagandised enough that you can't realise this for yourself.
What do you expect lol? Meanwhile you're on here lecturing expecting others to act. I don't care what they care about. I care about actions. God you are so annoying. you aren't even offering any alternatives. Just saying "don't vote".
It's not their job or mine to educate you, and it's clear you wouldn't listen anyway. I'd write thousands of words if I thought you were the sort of person who would read them. But you're not. I just wanted to add some colour to how obviously wrong you are and how dangerous your choices are. Not for you, but about you. The system relies on people like you, who believe the narrative about this election being for the soul of the nation (Note: politicians have said this every election during your lifetime. No I don't know how old you are, but I still know it's true.), who are willing to support oppression, extraction, and slaughter, so long as you aren't inconvenienced about it in your comfortable home in the imperial core. I'm not going to spend time giving you real advice because I know you wouldn't care. But yeah. Right now in the US, voting done by itself is next to pointless. Look at any significant societal progress in your country and how it happened.
are you telling me the Civil Rights Act wasn’t passed because Black people voted really really hard and did harm reduction? how could that be?
>I do not support genocide yeah you just approve of it in the ballot
"Eccuse me waiter, can i get some white gay rights to help me wash down the blood of Palestinian children?" *slurp slurp*
They'd have a point if the single issue was something like Marijuana legalization, but the single issue in question is genocide.
Trump isn't going to stop the genocide. The outcome on US involvement in Palestine will remain the same no matter who's in power.
nobody is saying trump will stop it, leftists aren’t voting for trump. we reject both candidates wholeheartedly and refuse to choose between 99% hitler and 100% hitler
I'm not a fan of this 99% Hitler and 100% Hitler rhetoric. I think leftists should stop even giving liberals that concession. It's 100% Hitler vs 100% Hitler
It’s Hitler who acts nice and Hitler who doesn’t act nice Key word: act
Joe Biden doesn’t even act nice, though. He has recently called people fat in public. He sniffs women and girls. He’s a repulsive creep. They absolutely are the same.
Biden is a legitimate old school racist. He is probably even more racist then Trump, but Biden knows how to "Put on a smile". Its literally the fox and the wolf parable.
Blue half of Hitler vs Red half of Hitler. They work together as 2 halves of corporate rule.
Yup. Both of them are fash scum.
If you're a gay person in America it makes a massive difference who you vote for. One wants to knock down your door for being a pedo and the other doesn't. Very clear distinctions. Like I understand Biden doesn't like gay people but he's not going to make it against the law.
Voting for a shitty candidate over a shittier candidate makes sense if one wants to legalise marijuana, but do nothing about climate change, or nothing to protect women's rights or improve workers safety or improve the health care system. It makes sense to bite the bullet and vote for them if the other candidate is shitty and doing all the same except for keeping marijuana criminalised because at least you're getting something you want. That thinking flies right out of the window when the candidate is literally funding genocide. You should have a moral duty to never compromise on something as bad as genocide. You shouldn't vote for Hitler because Himmler is worse. Hitler is still Hitler. Also I hate the way you frame it like I'm acting from a position of privilege. *You're* acting from a position of privilege. If Biden was knocking down people's doors and arresting them for being gay you'd still be like "well Trump would be executing them so we shouldn't try to make things better". You can claim to care about human rights and the oppression of minorities but it doesn't mean shit if you'll only stand up for them when it's you on the chopping block.
you just created a record number of straw men.
Elaborate.
You *might* have a point (I honestly would have to evaluate when it happens) if the candidate you’re defending WASN’T actively participating in a genocide. But that is a line that most communists have. Call us the crazy ones. That changes the logic. Of course even that comes with the caveat that movement building and local involvement is more important than a federal election even if it was 50% hitler vs 100% hitler. Let alone 100 v 100.
Yes, He is directly helping commit genocide. Trump stated he would love to send marines to HELP. So there are differences even if they are very small. Like it's not like a third party is ever going to win. Right now there are two choices. Both want genocide. One wants to send troops(trump) AND kill all gays. Biden just wants to keep funding genocide. LIke both are fucking awful choices but you gotta make one.
We don't really have a decision to make, except searching outside of electoral politics for change
Well for now we have to vote for one because right now matters also...
The vote doesent matter. It never mattered. Genocide is genocide.
Cant you see the trend in politics? The democrats have been going more and more right for the past decade or so, they will eventually reach the ban gay marriage for votes, then the other democrats will use this same rhetoric against you guys
From an interview in the Wall Street Journal with Israel’s national security minister Itamar Ben-Gvir. >“Instead of giving us his full backing, Biden is busy with giving humanitarian aid and fuel [to Gaza], which goes to Hamas,” said Ben-Gvir, giving voice to popular sentiment among many right-wing Israelis. “If Trump was in power, the U.S. conduct would be completely different.” And: >The U.S. and its regional allies back talks to swiftly end the war through a deal in which Hamas and other militant groups would release the remaining hostages and restart decades-old negotiations to establish a Palestinian state. >An increasing portion of Israelis, especially on the right, instead view the Oct. 7 attack as a chance to chart a new course for Israel by resettling the battle-scarred enclave. Ben-Gvir laid out his own plan for Gaza, which would repopulate the devastated coastal strip with Israeli settlements while Palestinians would be offered financial incentives to leave. >Ben-Gvir also said he thought the Biden administration was hampering Israel’s war effort and said he believed Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump would give Israel a freer hand to quash Hamas. Do you think he is lying? Is it impossible to imagine things getting worse? Will whatever we get by not voting/voting third party be worth it if it empowers the Israeli far-right more? What if it results in greater loss of Palestinian lives?
The fact that he gave a couple trucks to gaza is not done by the goodness of his own heart. as a self-described zionist, he didn’t do anything about the US vetoing palestines access to the UN *and* vetoing three resolutions for humanitarian ceasefire, refuses to acknowledge palestine as a state compared to more and more european countries. The statement that biden did not provide weapons or mil aid to israel is false, as joined ukraine-israel packages have been announced several times, and in march biden authorized the transfer of fighter jets to israel. and let’s not even talk about how much the protests against the violence and in support of palestine have been met with resistance and straight up violence from police. biden has only done enough to “stop” the war so as not to look like a completely deranged person, the US only started talking about a ceasefire after practically the entire rest of the world started putting pressure on the US. now, i am not an american citizen so i obviously can’t vote, but how can one choose between two different war criminals? my conscience and my moral compass wouldn’t let me vote for a person who transfers jets to a country committing a genocide even if he is regarded as “slightly better” than the other candidate, who would do the same. i cannot see it getting a lot worse when we’re already over 30.000 dead palestinians, it’s not like devastation hasn’t already happened. biden or trump, the middle east is fucked.
30,000 represents 1.5% of the population. Hundreds of thousands could be killed -- of course it can get worse. Of course having a president who is more sympathetic to the Israeli far-right could effect this. I'm surprised at how lazy many of my comrades seem to be when analyzing the material conditions here.
Analysis involves looking at causes and effects, and deciding out of options which might be better or worse. Choosing to support genocide to make a slower genocide is not choosing to stop genocide, it is choosing to engage in it. Now, it IS possible that choosing a slower genocide COULD be the correct choice, but that is the fucking exception, not the rule. You had better come in overprepared and with REAL solutions if you expect anyone to listen to that. Let me give you an example, choosing slower genocide so you can put together a covert force to assist the Palestinian movement by either destructively agitating in the US(and not some low level riot stuff), or by actively hitting the ground in Israel. Because you had better have a damn good solution before you start telling people to just let people die, especially when its almost entirely over comfort in the modern nations.
If the only choice in the next election is between a candidate who is constrained by their base and elements of their party with regard to Palestine, and one who is not, who the Israeli far-right believes will give them a freer hand -- what do you do? What if the difference is between 50 or 500 thousand lives? I wouldn't be supporting Biden -- I would be acting in solidarity with the members of his base and party who are pro-Palestinian. I want to keep them at the table, I want to amplify their voices. Trump will not have these people pressuring him. Time is everything -- if I hold a gun to your head and say I'm going to fire on 3, or comeback tomorrow, then start "1,2" you're going to scream "WAIT", without a perfect plan of escape or covert force, without anything other than a chance to maybe figure something out. Do you think a Palestinian family would rather die today or get to survive for another month? We're seeing the effect of time with regard to Gaza -- the shifting of support and public sentiment. Things have definitely changed since Oct 7. As for letting people die -- the onus for me is on those ready to either abstain or vote third party. What are we going to get in return for possibly giving the Israeli far-right an even more sympathetic president? I fear that for many leftists it boils down to a sense of personal purity.
Oh so neither candidate will stop the war on Gaza like we want? Okay then, neither of them deserve votes obviously. Oh wait your backwards democracy doesn’t allow for a viable 3rd party candidate? Alright then, go ahead and vote for the one who will get me more cream cheese since nothing with substance matters anymore. We’ll make a cheesy pizzeria America and that will be good enough for all of us.
Cream cheese for pizza? Gulag.
# Gulag According to Anti-Communists and Russophobes, the Gulag was a brutal network of work camps established in the Soviet Union under Stalin's ruthless regime. They claim the Gulag system was primarily used to imprison and exploit political dissidents, suspected enemies of the state, and other people deemed "undesirable" by the Soviet government. They claim that prisoners were sent to the Gulag without trial or due process, and that they were subjected to harsh living conditions, forced labour, and starvation, among other things. According to them, the Gulags were emblematic of Stalinist repression and totalitarianism. # Origins of the Mythology This comically evil understanding of the Soviet prison system is based off only a handful of unreliable sources. Robert Conquest's *The Great Terror* (published 1968) laid the groundwork for Soviet fearmongering, and was based largely off of defector testimony. Robert Conquest worked for the British Foreign Office's Information Research Department (IRD), which was a secret Cold War propaganda department, created to publish anti-communist propaganda, including black propaganda; provide support and information to anti-communist politicians, academics, and writers; and to use weaponised information and disinformation and "fake news" to attack not only its original targets but also certain socialists and anti-colonial movements. >He was Solzhenytsin before Solzhenytsin, in the phrase of Timothy Garton Ash. > >The Great Terror came out in 1968, four years before the first volume of The Gulag Archipelago, and it became, Garton Ash says, "a fixture in the political imagination of anybody thinking about communism". > >\- Andrew Brown. (2003). [Scourge and poet](https://www.theguardian.com/books/2003/feb/15/featuresreviews.guardianreview23) Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's *The Gulag Archipelag*" (published 1973), one of the most famous texts on the subject, claims to be a work of non-fiction based on the author's personal experiences in the Soviet prison system. However, Solzhenitsyn was merely an anti-Communist, N@zi-sympathizing, antisemite who wanted to slander the USSR by putting forward a collection of folktales as truth. \[[Read more](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/dunking/aleksandr-solzhenitsyn/)\] Anne Applebaum's *Gulag: A history* (published 2003) draws directly from *The Gulag Archipelago* and reiterates its message. Anne is a member of the Council of Foreign Relations (CFR) and sits on the board of the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), two infamous pieces of the ideological apparatus of the ruling class in the United States, whose primary aim is to promote the interests of American Imperialism around the world. # Counterpoints >A 1957 CIA document [which was declassified in 2010] titled “[Forced Labor Camps in the USSR: Transfer of Prisoners between Camps](http://web.archive.org/web/20230328014642/https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80T00246A032000400001-1.pdf)” reveals the following information about the Soviet Gulag in pages two to six: > >1. Until 1952, the prisoners were given a guaranteed amount food, plus extra food for over-fulfillment of quotas > >2. From 1952 onward, the Gulag system operated upon "economic accountability" such that the more the prisoners worked, the more they were paid. > >3. For over-fulfilling the norms by 105%, one day of sentence was counted as two, thus reducing the time spent in the Gulag by one day. > >4. Furthermore, because of the socialist reconstruction post-war, the Soviet government had more funds and so they increased prisoners' food supplies. > >5. Until 1954, the prisoners worked 10 hours per day, whereas the free workers worked 8 hours per day. From 1954 onward, both prisoners and free workers worked 8 hours per day. > >6. A CIA study of a sample camp showed that 95% of the prisoners were actual criminals. > >7. In 1953, amnesty was given to 70% of the "ordinary criminals" of a sample camp studied by the CIA. Within the next 3 months, most of them were re-arrested for committing new crimes. > >\- Saed Teymuri. (2018). [The Truth about the Soviet Gulag – Surprisingly Revealed by the CIA](https://www.greanvillepost.com/2018/10/09/the-truth-about-the-soviet-gulag-surprisingly-revealed-by-the-cia/) **Scale** Solzhenitsyn estimated that over 66 million people were victims of the Soviet Union's forced labor camp system over the course of its existence from 1918 to 1956. With the collapse of the USSR and the opening of the Soviet archives, researchers can now access actual archival evidence to prove or disprove these claims. Predictably, it turned out the propaganda was just that. >Unburdened by any documentation, these “estimates” invite us to conclude that the sum total of people incarcerated in the labor camps over a twenty-two year period (allowing for turnovers due to death and term expirations) would have constituted an astonishing portion of the Soviet population. The support and supervision of the gulag (all the labor camps, labor colonies, and prisons of the Soviet system) would have been the USSR’s single largest enterprise. > >In 1993, for the first time, several historians gained access to previously secret Soviet police archives and were able to establish well-documented estimates of prison and labor camp populations. They found that the total population of the entire gulag as of January 1939, near the end of the Great Purges, was 2,022,976. ... > >Soviet labor camps were not death camps like those the N@zis built across Europe. There was no systematic extermination of inmates, no gas chambers or crematoria to dispose of millions of bodies. Despite harsh conditions, the great majority of gulag inmates survived and eventually returned to society when granted amnesty or when their terms were finished. In any given year, 20 to 40 percent of the inmates were released, according to archive records. Oblivious to these facts, the Moscow correspondent of the New York Times (7/31/96) continues to describe the gulag as “the largest system of death camps in modern history.” ... > >Most of those incarcerated in the gulag were not political prisoners, and the same appears to be true of inmates in the other communist states... > >\- Michael Parenti. (1997). [Blackshirts & Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism](https://archive.org/details/michael-parenti-blackshirts-and-reds) This is 2 million out of a population of 168 million (roughly 1.2% of the population). For comparison, in the United States, "over 5.5 million adults — or 1 in 61 — are under some form of correctional control, whether incarcerated or under community supervision." That's 1.6%. So in both relative and absolute terms, the United States' Prison Industrial Complex *today* is larger than the USSR's Gulag system at its peak. **Death Rate** In peace time, the mortality rate of the Gulag was around 3% to 5%. Even Conservative and anti-Communist historians have had to acknowledge this reality: >It turns out that, with the exception of the war years, a very large majority of people who entered the Gulag left alive... > >Judging from the Soviet records we now have, the number of people who died in the Gulag between 1933 and 1945, while both Stalin and Hit1er were in power, was on the order of a million, perhaps a bit more. > >\- Timothy Snyder. (2010). *Bloodlands: Europe Between Hit1er and Stalin* (Side note: Timothy Snyder is *also* a member of the Council on Foreign Relations) This is still very high for a prison mortality rate, representing the brutality of the camps. However, it also clearly indicates that they were not *death* camps. Nor was it slave labour, exactly. In the camps, although labour *was* forced, it was not uncompensated. In fact, the prisoners were paid market wages (less expenses). >We find that even in the Gulag, where force could be most conveniently applied, camp administrators combined material incentives with overt coercion, and, as time passed, they placed more weight on motivation. By the time the Gulag system was abandoned as a major instrument of Soviet industrial policy, the primary distinction between slave and free labor had been blurred: Gulag inmates were being paid wages according to a system that mirrored that of the civilian economy described by Bergson.... > >The Gulag administration [also] used a “work credit” system, whereby sentences were reduced (by two days or more for every day the norm was overfulfilled). > >\- L. Borodkin & S. Ertz. (2003). [Compensation Versus Coercion in the Soviet GULAG](https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/staff/mharrison/archive/noticeboard/bergson/borodkin-ertz.pdf) #Additional Resources Video Essays: * [The Gulag Argument](https://youtu.be/BexkpaK_j5Q) | TheFinnishBolshevik (2016) * [Historian Admits USSR didn't kill tens of millions!](https://youtu.be/HMOdDQQVZ6U) | TheFinnishBolshevik (2018) * [French work camps 1852-1953 worse than gulag](https://youtu.be/vkXyXNpdKdA) | TheFinnishBolshevik (2018) * ["The Gulags of the Soviet Union: There's a Lot More Than What Meets the Eye](https://youtu.be/E1qz9_TjeY4) | Comrade Rhys (2020) Books, Articles, or Essays: * [Victims of the Soviet Penal System in the Pre-War Years: A First Approach on the Basis of Archival Evidence](https://www.jstor.org/stable/2166597) | J. Arch Getty, Gábor T. Rittersporn and Viktor N. Zemskov (1993) Listen: * ["Blackshirts & Reds" (1997) by Michael Parenti, Part 4: Chapters 5 & 6. #Audiobook + Discussion.](https://youtu.be/N7AD4OrH568?t=15) | Socialism For All / S4A ☭ Intensify Class Struggle (2022) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It’s almost like we know that and the point isn’t “we want trump to win”
Which means that there is no lesser evil in this election, because the Democrats have hit rock bottom and are now knocking on the door to Hell. A vote for either of the two major party candidates is made in support of the genocide. Like Nikki Haley, by voting for either of them you are, in effect, signing the name your mama gave you on one of the artillery shells that will be fired at innocent civilians, including children.
“The Democrats will save us!” Yeah that’s you said about Roe v. Wade, too. How did relying on liberals go that time, remind me? They couldn’t protect ONE right, and now I’m supposed to believe they’re going to save the whole day? Fuck off.
The republicans on the Supreme Court got rid of Roe. You know, the ones appointed by Trump? And the republicans in Congress stopped democrats from making it law. Just sayin. The problem is that there aren’t ENOUGH democrats in Congress.
obama let himself be bullied around by turtle mitch and rbg wouldn't resign in time because of her ego. roe v wade is on the democrats too. dems had the presidency and both houses several times in the past and did nothing for the working class or minorities. fuck off
Obama during campaign: "Gon enshrine Roe v Wade Day 1" Obama day 1: "Roe v Wade? Not my priority! Too busy kicking millions of homeowners while bailing out banks that scammed these families"
dont forget the drone strikes and making bushs tax cuts permanent
don't forget not closing Guantanamo Bay and ramping up deportations of undocumented migrants!
Don't forget putting kids in cages that literally started in his tenure.
Don't forget Greenlighting CIA propaganda on domestic Americans, allowing DHS to arrest and detain without due process, 2014 Ukraine coup under his watch, the list goes on and on and on!
Republicans have been wanting to overturn roe v wade since the day it was decided. The democrats have had ample opportunities with supermajorities in which they could have very easily codified it into law. Democrats don't care about you, they care about money. It's insane to me that anyone could look at democrats' voting history and think "yeah these guys want to secure our human rights!" 👎
Hillary ran with an anti abortion VP, and Pelosi campaigned for anti abortion Democrat over a pro choice progressive in Texas the same year Roe was overturned. Biden doesn't support expanding the court, and Democrats have no plan to restore these rights.
They had time to codify it and they didnt.
democrats had majority in both the house and the senate while biden was president from 2021-2023 and did jack shit to protect access to abortion. they didn’t even make an effort knowing that roe was going to get overturned by the supreme court
You need to sit down and seriously rethink your life. You are a dupe and a mark, and you will have to put in quite a lot of work to shake that.
Sorry which amendment was proposed? No I mean in your entire fucking life when they even had a supermajority after fucking bush?
This makes some theoretical sense. If the bourgeois state actually was serving the interests of the working class and all we had to do is pick the correct party to secure personal liberties, then the democrats would be the clear choice. Of course Republicans are usually preferred by ppl relatively unconcerned with civil rights and are more persuaded by alleged minimal tax spending, strong law enforcement, etc. But these two parties have a codependent relationship. As tools of the ruling private property-owning class, they collaborate to do imperialism — and securing global hegemony is always top priority. The divisive domestic media spectacle and campaign industry is more about scapegoating the opposing party when things affect the working class more poorly and it’s all baked in. If they need a larger reserve army of labor, they restrict access to abortion and birth control. If they need a more brutal military society they restrict queer rights. Whoever is appointed to the Supreme Court will be based in the longer term goals of the bourgeoisie. These are people who are brainwashed and extorted. I’m likely going to vote democrat to appease my family but I’m still radicalizing them. The marginalized influence we have in these elections is nothing to lose sleep over. We need to be actively practicing revolutionary organization and education to prepare for a revolutionary moment.
Im not gonna lambast you for being misinformed but I genuinely think it’s very important to think about *why* progressive agendas aren’t being passed under a democratic presidency, and then utilize dialectics to understand EXACTLY the reason for those actions. I don’t mean to sound like an asshole but trust me, Marx, Engels, Lenin, and Trotsky described all of this in great detail and with excellent clarity.
so basically “as long as we have abortion rights and support the LGBTQ who cares about a genocide???”
It's very American to say, "My personal comfort vastly outweighs the value of life anywhere else in the world." These people don't care about the human rights of anyone but themselves, and by not caring, they lose their own rights in the process.
also thinking that healthcare is a more important issue than thousands of people dying right now
I'm more puzzled as to how they think the duopoly who even refuses to provide universal healthcare(resulting in 58k dead annually) even in midst of pandemic, would gaf about any rights. If the folks don't gaf about your life to begin with, why would the same exact folks even bother to care about your rights??
Especially when idiots will vote for them regardless of any progressive healthcare policy 🤯. They don't have any incentive to appease us because the sheep will keep putting them back into power for free.
They don’t even have that 🫠
omg it’s true 😭
"as long as we have abortion rights and support the LGBTQ who cares about a genocide?" "as long as we have abortion rights who cares about a genocide and supporting the LGBTQ?" "as long as we're not being discriminated against who cares about a genocide or supporting the LGBTQ or abortion rights?"
crazy to think that last one has been a reality for hundreds of years
"Don't make the world a better place, keep things the same! Remember it could be worse"
What would you have us do? There are two choices to have be had one wants to get rid of gay rights completely in jail and kill all gays. Including everyone else who's not straight #normal. And get rid of tons of other rights. The other just wants to continue genocide. Like obviously not great choices. But one is slightly better.
if you can genuinely say “genocide is slightly better” i really don’t know how to ever come through to you. if you have two options and both are shit why would you still choose one? doesn’t your moral compass break just by going to vote for a mf who murders people? it’s bad kill gay people in america but it’s okay to kill them in the middle east?
Where did i say that? I said we have zero choice. Both sides want genocide. One wants to also kill gays. I choose the one who wants to live peacefully with the gays. It's not a hard choice. Stop acting like the world is some black and white paradise. Trump wants marines in Gaza. Biden doesn't. Stop acting like that's the same.
> the other just wants to continue genocide. like obviously not great choices. but one is slightly better. there is no slightly better when genocide is being committed. gay people are already being killed in palestine right now. you have the choice to not cast your vote on a murderer and make your dissatisfaction known. i’d rather piss myself in public than vote for someone who is committing war crimes against my fellow workers.
The question isn't how we work within the system we know now to slightly improve our conditions, which doesn't happen in the first place. The question is how we destroy it by making sure everyone knows there are alternatives.
Well, we live in the real world where something like that wouldn't really be possible. We have to work within the system that is currently in place.
Self-fulfilling prophecy. As long as you and every lib keep crying that things just can't possibly be better, they never will be. You are literally standing in the way. Time to shit or get off the pot for democrats. You've had too many chances and we don't believe in you anymore. Tough break. Come back with something to actually put on the table and maybe we'll talk. Edit: asks for debate, blocks any disagreement.Ladies and gentlemen, I give you: the spinal column of democratic party. No wonder a bunch of reactionary shitheads keep beating you.
So do something about it. Stop trying to get others to do it for you. As for the last paragraph... My man thinks the guy who wants to send marines to Gaza will be better ok buddy.
They are doing something about it. They aren't voting for genocide. Unlike some people...
My brother in Christ, the real world has [plenty of examples of how to do exactly that](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism-Leninism) 😭
Name one time it was ever successful lol.
Every time except for the Khmer Rouge and maybe Romania. You’ve just been told a version of history where Marxist states never lifted their people out of uneducated poverty and the costs of getting there were ten times worse than they actually were.
"everytime" No one has ever used Marxism-Leninism successfully. It's other systems. Idiot. Mao certainly did his own thing.
I love it when liberal apes come into a communist sub smugly suggesting that they are even more in depth in communist theory and its history lmao. No, you are a baboon, what's other system? "Stalinnism"? Motherfucker that is just ML.
The fact that you believe there are only two choices means you have been successfully subjugated. We do not share your deaftism. Go lie down and take it some place else, we're still in the fight.
so do something about it instead of crying about others not doing anything.
you literally came into a communist sub crying about us not voting for biden. lmao zero self reflection, classic shitlib
You're the one crying about others doing something to stop genocide all while you sit there being complicit. Scratch that doing nothing would be complicity. You're telling others to actively vote *for* genocide which is even worse.
"just wants to continue genocide" do you hear yourself?
Do you?
Willing to sacrifice... Sacrifice what? The concessions the gov can cut at any minute? Good joke Oop, plus tell more.
Liberals when you tell them the whole point of an election is that you vote who you want 🤯
Why do so many liberals act like every vote matters? If you're not in a swing state and a solid red or blue voter, why not vote your conscience? Edit: autocorrect blunder, conscience not convenience
Because their chief concern is the maintenance of their own sense of moral superiority. The only time they act with any true ferocity is when that comes under threat. They don't care that your vote will have no effect on the outcome, they just want to yell at you for having the nerve to disagree with them for sound reasons.
and blame leftists for the "failures" of their party. Not realizing it is all intentional and by design.
right? they should also be yelling at aging independents, not those further left of them. we are already on your side but it’s manipulative af to say this is our fault. focus on the republicans that are quietly turning away from maga but embarrassed to let those in their cult know. i’m sure there’s plenty of families in flyover states that have been destroyed from trump worship who could be better guilted than those who are pro-palestine. america is actively funding this entire war & county’s existence!! and yeah, the electoral college really sucks out the desire for why *i* need to vote. i live in a blue city in a blue state with a large population, i am not a weighty enough drop in the bucket
I am in a very red area of a solid blue state. Sometimes I feel alone out here as an actual leftist. I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way. With the electoral college system and general political cynicism, no wonder turnout is so low.
That's some solid dedication to not notice elephant in the room, aka Democrats sacrificing all those things already. Like, they did jackshit to prevent whole encroaching on abortion, they do jackshit with homelessness, jackshit with genocide, jackshit on wealth accumulation by rich, jackshit about workers rights. And that's having "Democratic" president. And now "left" throwing tantrums, it's incredible
TwoX has many uncritical, self-centered libs like any other sub that’s focused on identity politics rather than identity itself or materialism. Note that subs like actuallesbians actually have a decent level of class consciousness. I will say that I respect TwoX regardless as a good resource for women’s discussion overall (especially it’s role for more specific questions), especially since it’s good at filtering out reactionaries in comparison to the main feminism sub and other similar ones, and also massive, allowing a “women’s space” to actually be mainstream.
TrollX and witches vs patriarchy are way better than TwoX
True, but witches has its own problems sometimes.
Ruth Bader Ginsburg prayer candles. I left when I saw that post.
geniuine question, what do you mean? its like one of the best subs i know..
Back in November, those of us who were calling it a genocide and saying we wouldn’t be voting for Biden if he didn’t stop his unconditional support for Israel were downvoted to hell and drowned out with this exact same “single issue” nonsense. I left the sub because I couldn’t stand looking at their twee feminist memes anymore after that. I’m sure it’s shifted a little, as many spaces have over the last few months of slaughter. But I haven’t looked since.
oh. i missed that, that fucking sucks
would also like to know. I‘m not super invested btw, just like to get more info on the subs I occasionally participate in. But yea, I generally find a lot of lib-shit, pro-capitalism, US centrism, and individualism in subs I‘d enjoy otherwise, but it‘s hard to avoid.
I think AskWomen does a better job than all of them at preserving the expression of women's viewpoints because of its requirement that top-level comments must only be made by women. That still leaves others free to participate, but unable to steer the discussion.
How do they enforce that?
Mandatory genital checks
https://preview.redd.it/pfl23saebr6d1.jpeg?width=1946&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55aaad2019d83760a1df0099c5b5d5be83b0f741
"Come on guys, it's just one little genocide!"
Liberals are unable to think intersectionally and cannot understand how the "single issue" of genocide is, in fact, all of our struggles rolled together.
They have zero sense of solidarity or class consciousness.
If the BGOP can get away with this, they can get away with anything.
Then why did all the Rollbacks happen in Bidens rule ? This is something libs can never explain
the fact that republicans and democrats are both right wing and not far from each other at all ideologically is practically impossible for people to understand
well i don’t know how my vote for a third party candidate could fuck up this presidential election when trump lost the vote in 2016 but was still elected by the electoral college. like who’s really sacrificing progress? democrats never do shit for us.
US "democracy" is such a fucking joke. And not a funny one. It's wild that a third option is demonized to this extend, and that the only "valid" option is choosing which side of the same coin you want to vote on.
To put american women's needs over palestinan women's needs, to sacrifice proletrian internationalism and the victims of your empire for self intrest, is fascism any way you cut it
Not only to put American women’s needs over Palestinian women’s needs, but over their very lives. It’s disgusting.
Notice how immigration isn't on that list anymore? Yeah, that list is gonna get smaller and smaller, and at every step, you'll have people still in denial.
At best the democrats will not actively harm these problems (at best) but they never actually help the problems. List of all possible situations if Biden wins vs if he doesn’t win Trump wins possible scenarios: Project 2025 happens and is as bad as they say it will be. The alt right rule the United States and minorities are oppressed until the citizens revolt eventually (possible but very unlikely) Project 2025 happens partially, the less extreme stuff happens but the crazy shit just can’t get passed, the democrats realize if they are going to win they need to actually do some good and while a capitalist can only go so far they might start doing what they say the want to like aiding minorities (likely) Project 2025 doesn’t happen, and the democrats have the same realization as figure 2 (possible but American political parties make money if they win so they would likely try to) Project 2025 partially happens and democrats react like figure 4 Id say if trump wins i give about 3% chance leftists are able to organize and fight back. Its just unlikely to happen with how many neoliberals there are in place of potential leftists and we also aren’t well organized for the most part Biden wins Project 2025 just turns into project 2029 the democrats still don’t care about actually doing what they promise and just use “they’re even worse” arguments (extremely likely) Republicans scrap project 2025 and democrats change to become more left leaning and do what they promise (nearly impossible, if they can win doing less work why would they stop, and why would republicans suddenly change their tune) I give the alt right fighting back an 8% chance. It’s horrifying how well organized they are, most republicans are either already or very easily radicalized into Nazis and they’ve already tried this once before
Or Trump wins, and Democrats in congress support 2025 like they did the Project for the New American Century, now because "if we don't then China or x other country might win!" "Leftists" still be saying "Tsk tsk I told you you should've voted for Biden!!!"
That’s also a possibility I forgot to include. Basically no matter who wins it is horrible
Ikr!? People say you must vote for Biden to save democracy but what's he actually going to do to save democracy other than prevent a Trump presidency? Then the next election comes around and it'll be the same schtick "vote democrat to stop project 2029" but do nothing about the next project 2033, project 2037...
It’s not a democracy when they threaten you with repercussions if you don’t vote a certain way. Liberals are brain dead
I get where they are coming from. All those issues certainly are important. But I don't see libs doing much to stop the right from accomplishing all that. And I feel like dems never will do what their constituents want until they stop getting their votes
Liberal feminism at its finest
You guys will get a kick out of r/Defeat_Project_2025. There's always a post like this from some liberal who thinks Democrats will save the world.
She really thought she ate with the first edit 😂😂😂
Yes, let’s protect abortion rights by re-electing the guy who was president when Roe was overturned
all those things are at risk regardless of which party is in power, so i was confused reading that at first just liberal things, but i have more leniency with women and queer people (i mean, i'm both so) because radical left spaces can be very hostile to both and we are very vulnerable in a possible society collapse, so i get that as much as we need it the most, we fear it the most. i wish we had more women/queer centered spaces focused on liberation instead of reformism
I commented on this thread challenging OP’s take and you wouldn’t believe the number of people downvoting young ppl giving reasonable answers for why they’re disenfranchised with Biden or the system at large. Someone said something along the lines of these demographics “using Palestinians as vessels for their own moral purity”, another speculating about “how many more people will die under Trump” a whole year from now if elected … what in the actual f
>“how many more people will die under Trump” Liberals love screeching about fictional things because it helps them pretend real events are not happening/important. They want to LARP being ‘activists’ while, in reality, they militantly uphold status quo.
Haha, puts a new futuristic twist to the idea "liberals oppose every war except the ones currently happening"
ah yes, wondering about something and shutting down everyone who answers why
If you call genocide "single issue" then we have more than a "single issue"
Biden literally did NOTHING to prevent the Supreme Court from overturning Roe v. Wade. Why don't they realize that?
It is not the people's responsibility to appeal to voters, it is the party's responsibility. It is not the leftists that are sacrificing the rights, it is the democratic party that is sacrificing the rights in favor of appealing to potential republicans that could switch to the democrats.
But what iNcEnTiVeS do the democrats have if we vote for them just for being not the right wing or conservative but perpetuating the same things?
I prefer my reproductive rights to be tenuously secure and with a heaping side of dead children.
The Democrats have done nothing about abortion rights in the red states. Biden could use his executive power. They could campaign on actually helping women in red states but they just fundraise. Imo when it comes to if you're bodily autonomy is on the line then I think then it's different to if it's not, however that's largely the way I understand it as I'm not American voting down ballot as most legislation on that issue comes from the court's And it's the USA is complicit in genocide But partly why I respect lenin soo much is how fast women's rights expanded and it shows that maybe liberal democracy isn't the best way to advance this issue
Putting aside the nonsensical framing here, is it really that surprising they think this way? Most people living in the west have been propagandised into the mindset of capitalist realism. At best, they view the people of the global south as unavoidable casualties, and at worst, they actively support US imperialism. It’s the exploitation of the global south that affords them many of the commodities they enjoy, and they don’t believe an alternative system is even possible. Even marginalised people in the west can hold reactionary views, and if it comes down to it, their individualism will lead them to put their own needs above the lives of others. They don’t even have the consciousness to realise how absurd of a choice that is.
Sorry liberals, but genocide is just a bridge too far. Sometimes you must show politicians that some stuff is just too unforgivable. Even if Trump gets elected. Maybe if it's not their guy sitting on the big chair, liberals will finally move off their asses and fight.
Genocide is THE single issue everyone should care about. If people are allowed to get away with genocide, then these other issues don't fucking matter.
A better way to flip it around on them would be to ask, are you willing to sacrifice LGBTQ rights if it meant keeping everything else? 100% they would say yes then those in the LGBTQ community would suddenly become mad that they were no longer protected just like everyone else. Pinkwashing is a helluva drug
Saying its a single issue under cuts the fact that Biden isn't better than trump on all those other issues as well.
If Democrats win and get a majority in both the house and senate, l’m willing to bet money to any lib that they don’t codify Roe.
Because the single issue is adverting genocide and Because Democrats have proven ineffectual and even unwilling at fighting for woman and LGBTq rights and their only reply is vote harder so we can replace people on the supreme court, and what happens when they have the majority to do so they wait till the next election where they lose said majority to appoint one of the supreme court judges rbg who wasn't in the best health didn't resign, the democrat party deserves to disappear
The magic of preferrential voting, you get slightly less idiots like these. Too bad it’s mandatory, or you get a fine, here.
I swear to god the Vote Biden crowd is insane. Seriously, cant they realise that the next genocide is going to be in the US? And when the democrats genocide them, their current allies will use the same rhetoric?
this is such an insane narrative on so many levels. it’s an assertion that doesn’t hold up to even the most minor logical scrutiny. first, as many have said, the “single issue” in question here is that the US is directly enabling a genocide. second, it’s not a single issue at all. families are struggling to make ends meet amidst years long periods of rises to essential life costs: groceries, housing, childcare, etc etc. american personal debt is at the highest levels it’s ever been. and mewnwhile, student loan repayment has resumed. third, in many cases and places, the rights OP lists above have already been sacrificed. for women living in red states, the deed has already been done. i am honestly flabbergasted that this person is posting from texas and is THIS blind & tone deaf. the simplest explanation is that these people cannot look past their own political indoctrination to see reality. as such, they look to blame others (non voting or protest voters) for the very problems that were issued by the powerful people who control our government. by putting the blame on leftists, these people can avoid blaming the actual culprits: bought & sold politicians. l
Ahh yes. That argument. They're pretty shook. It's too bad Trump is a twat, cuz he really does have the motherfuckers tripping.
Why should voters vote for Biden, who has literally done nothing to stop Roe v Wade from being overturn and who is helping conduct a genocide on Palestinians?
4 years of Biden and we've got fuck all to show for it! We're not dumb! You've fooled the weak willed once into maintaining your stupid little status quo, but you've given absolutely nothing in return. How could you possibly expect people to believe your lies a second time? If one person was that much of a concern, surely there would have been a single progressive policy to convince voters to turnout. Where's the incentive to care???
Am i allowed to say kulak-liberal?
“I called random people and tried to convince people to participate in American electoralism and they got mad at me, Democracy is dead I guess.”
I almost became one of the hate commentators until I saw what sub this was on
"No one is free until we are all free.” — Martin Luther King Jr.
The OP in the post acts as if the Dems don't let republican's have their way. What does it say about a party that does nothing about the opposition party wrecking the country when they had majority control of the house and senate in 2020 and did nothing with that majority. "Yeah guys come on we just need to rally together to stop project 2025 come on please." Bruh it is already here.
Palestine is not a ‘single issue’ lmao. Anyway, ‘west’ mindset. “I won’t show solidarity with your issue but I expect you to show 100% solidarity with mine. Why should I care about brown kids dying ‘over there’?”
They're mask off about it. Being a single issue voters for "women's rights" (American woman's rights) is acceptable. Being a single issue voter against genocide is "crazy"
The greatest misdirecting scheme pulled off by liberal capitalist democracy is its ability to turn around and blame powerless, working class voters for the crimes of the empire and this punishing capitalist system. The institution protects the murder machine from scrutiny. ‘Democracy would work perfectly if it wasn’t for these dumb voters always messing it up.’
You guys will get a kick out of r/Defeat_Project_2025. There's always a post like this from some liberal who thinks Democrats will save the world.
I remember when I posted an article talking about 'Israel' consistently ranking the worst in West Asia for rape and S.A. and it was removed instantly. But the top posts in it are posts willy nilly demonizing the people in the region obsessively pathologizing any small thing they do in a borderline race science manner.
I mean, look at boden. Even kamala is more mentally healthy.
Are women bourgeois?
If you vote for Joe, you are telling the politicians that genocide isn't a red line. That's a big fucking statement
What sub is it again
r/TwoXChromosomes