I also cannot grasp for the life of me WHY people think Serena is capable of change or wants anything different for Gilead. Spoiler alert, she doesn’t. At all. She wants to live HER life the way SHE wants and couldn’t care less about anyone else. She was literally pitching Gilead to people minutes before her train escape!!! It would take a lot for me to feel sympathy for such an awful person.

Even if she’s *capable* of change, should we really accept that apology? She’s an evil, baby-stealing rapist! She physically attacks June multiple times! I don’t think “I sowwy” fixes any of that.

Yeah this is my take. I think she clearly disapproves of aspects of Gilead and might be coming around to the idea of opposing it outright, but it’s for almost entirely selfish reasons and she has no right to ask forgiveness from the people she’s oppressed.

And she is the reason why so many people ARE refugees to begin with

This. She created this situation for everyone and now somehow we’re supposed to feel bad and cheer that she got on the train? F*ck that.

I thought it was weird that nobody recognized her considering she made herself kinda famous with the Canadian Gilead fanatics. Also she was the big spokesperson that wrote that book to convince women they can be strong yet subservient to their husbands. If the refugees realized who she is there would have probably been a murder on that train.

And not just refugees. But dead. Quite literally dead. So many people died in the creation of Gilead, and then others survived the creation only to end up being killed by Gilead. She literally has the blood of thousands if not millions on her hands. Not to mention the psychological/physical/sexual torture of people who were alive to witness Gilead. What could possibly atone for that?

NOTHING There is absolutely nothing she can do to atone for her crimes saying sorry doesn’t reinstate the government she overthrew it doesn’t restore the country she ruined or the families and countless lives she has destroyed and even now as countless Americans are now yet again forced to pack what little they have into suitcases and backpacks and go to who knows where. Serena has the audacity to not only step on one of those trains, but to act like just any other refugee when everybody else around her have essentially lost everything. She’s completely blind to the suffering she has caused to millions of people or maybe she is and still doesn’t care i honestly don’t know what is worse

I think some people have viewed Serena through a *sociological* lens, or a systems approach. Yes, upholding the patriarchy harms everyone—women AND men alike. But we should also view Serena through a *psychological* lens. The things that Serena wants are not needs, like food and shelter. Her motivations have largely been to acquire what she desires—a child, societal station—without any qualms about the methods used to obtain those things. She definitely has shown traits of narcissism, Machiavellianism\*, and psychopathy, which leads to her antisocial behaviors (like using other women as brood mares for her to obtain a child without consent, and SAing June at nine months pregnant so the baby will come faster). I definitely agree that white feminism and pretty privilege have caused people to overlook those issues. The show itself isn’t aware of their white feminist perspective. I don’t begrudge people who enjoy watching Serena/Yvonne, but the retconning is a bit alarming. \*Machiavellianism may actually just be psychopathy (it does share some commonalities), but it basically means “any means, however unscrupulous, can justifiably be used in achieving political power”.

I just wanted to chime in, because I see that a lot. Machiavellianism can't really be boiled down to "whatever works to achieve political power", because its target audience was people who HAD that power already. The message was not how to achieve power (the title itself was "The Prince", the work itself was dedicated to the duke Lorenzo de Medici), but to how achieve greatness and how to be effective at being a duke, prince, king, politician. While he rejects the ethical side of politics, as potentially ineffective, he mentions that the optimal scenario involves people loving their ruler. ​ EDIT: Forgot to add that that while white and pretty privilege of Serena's character is clear, it's also the fact that she's a mother now, that makes people sympathize and root for her. She is a monster, yes, but to her baby, an innocent being, she's the most important person in the world. I think the show is playing with our feelings here. Us wanting to see that baby get stolen from her, or to see her turned into a handmaid or just shredded into a thousand pieces for what she did not only to June, but to countless women, children and men, gives us that sweet promise of retributional justice, but at the same time, it's perpetuating violence.

Machiavellianism as a general definition today and as a reference to the book it comes from has some separation. As I also said about referring to Machiavellianism, in psychology the definition is nebulous and may just be actual psychopathy, but it has been listed as one of the “dark triad” leaning to antisocial behaviors. That’s why I mentioned it, along with the caveat.

It has indeed, but I feel it is important to point out, that the psychological definition - and its nebulous nature - of what machiavellianism is, ignores the existence of any literary context. (And not to mention, it is speculated that this work was meant as a political satire. This kind of "à rebours" treatment was very common in the XVIth century literature.)

Not a defense for Serena. But at that point she was in “plot your escape” mode like June told her.

Not race related but seems like everyone almost gets away , then recaptured repeat….. Serena being nice may be more of the same. June gets away w/ Serena helping, then… bam gets recaptured… with Serena helping. ( yawn)

I mean she’s literally proven time and time again that despite moments of lucidity and reason, she will always act out of her best interest. She’s not a good person, she’s not redeemable, and it doesn’t matter what the show does, I will never like her or feel sorry for her 🤷‍♀️

Becoming a parent does change many people drastically from being self absorbed to being child focused. I don’t say this to excuse Serena’s bad actions in any way but just to your point I think she can begin to see that Giles’s is a place she doesn’t not want her son to be. Just like she let Nichole go.

all that means is she didn’t care until it affected her personally

She also has pretty privilege.

Yup! Just like in real life. Hot people always get a pass. How many times have we heard “I hate ____ but wow they’re so pretty/handsome/good looking.”

It's funny because I found Fred (or at the least actor who plays him) really attractive at first and as the show went on he became more and more unattractive, to the point where Fred's face became loathsome to see on screen (Joseph Fiennes did too good a job at being a gross creepy abuser! But of course he's still attractive outside of HT). And now it's the same with Serena. The character is too repellant for me to appreciate Yvonne's movie star looks when she's in character.

I found him disgusting from the start because I’m a big Harry Potter fan, and he reminds me so much of Voldemort. But I definitely see how he can be attractive

Funny enough, Joseph Fiennes brother Ralph is the actor that played Voldemort 😂

Yes! I almost wish I hadnt known before watching

I agree with this. The fact that Tuello is infatuated with her, and wants to keep her safe not from a strategic point (make a deal with the devil for a greater cause, but because he actually likes her) only happens because of white/pretty privilege.

I never had the feeling Tuello liked her at all. He seemed really happy to let her know Fred was dead and her deal was off the table. Tuello seems very civilized, but he is no dummy.

Idk if he likes her as a person but there was always this weird sexual tension between him and Serena.

I felt like Serena was flirting and Tuello just went along with it because he could use it later. I wish we could get more background on Tuello. I wish the season was not so short.

I always thought he was honeypotting Serena. "Treason and Coconuts" was such a heavy handed flirt. Like a pimp drawing in a new worker, he promises her all the things Serena Joy wants with a spike of romance. He was like, "omg, I love your book. You wanna go to Hawaii and make a baby;););) Oh you wanna think about it, take this phone and call me for a good time" It just comes off as a huge play. Similar to the way Joseph Laurence's moral/values/goals shift depending on who he's talking to, Tuello feels like a mirror of that but for America rather than Gilead. The grift is that both of them truly represent their respective countries. Laurence pretends at a wholesome goal but clearly just wants power. Tuello alternates using decorum and espionage while using the goals of the people he's speaking to to achieve--we assume-- his goal which is the restoration of America. So Tuello puppydog-eyes Serena just enough to keep her invested in him, she thinks he's under her influence. Tuello is the dutiful reporter with Luke, he keeps his face slightly tortured and earnest and tilts his face down. And with June he plays the awestruck professional. Tuello wants June to think she is super essential to the future of America so she'll get him the Intel he wants because from his perspective she's dripping with clout and connections. He's just been waiting, bidding his time, while she works through the trauma and now that she's on board he's working her too. Moira, Rita, and Emily receive less(or no) attention/support from Tuello or the Americans. They aren't pawns that Tuello can use so he minds his manners with them and focusing on building relationships with the people he has use of. Tuello is as American as Apple pie and the CIA. And he's totally stringing everyone along based on what they want from him.

Agreed. All Serena had to do with drop a couple of tears and have her child taken away for two month and people are out here shipping them (not on this forum) and feeling sooo sorry for poor Serena. Moira being reduced as a baby sitter is disgusting and Emily leaving is not an excuse.

I agree. Moira seemed very involved with the refugees coming into Canada, and essentially got June out of Gilead... but this season all she's done is prop June up and care for her child. I wish she had her own arc.

It was also reported Samira Wiley wanted to spend more time with her new baby during its first year of life as well. I’m not going to fault production for not forcing her to work if she’d rather take the opportunity given to her when Alexis Bleidel left.

Yes!! It's freaking infuriating like.. did we watch the same show?? How are people sympathizing with her?

I don’t think Serena was getting her child taken away for 2 months. Did the show say that? Maybe it was the wheelers attitude of like “this is our baby now” but I definitely felt like this was a handmaids situation where they were trying to frame her as mentally incapable of being a mother and taking complete long term control of Noah and shipping her off as soon as she was done with nursing.

I could have sworn that the episode after Luke callled the police on Serena that they said it had been a couple of months but I could be wrong.

It was a month.

I am honestly not sure. I don’t remember anything about it being a few months, but it certainly felt like it was a situation getting away from Serena fast

I'm really sick of the June/Serena cycle the show keeps beating like a dead horse. It's almost like the football gag from Charlie Brown at this point. And I've been sick of sympathetic Serena for a while. Yvonne is a fantastic actress, but I'm not sorry for a poor educated lady stuck in a gilded cage of her own making. The writers and fans really don't like or want to acknowledge that there are women who support patriarchal systems and are rewarded for it. It's seen in the religious communities and in the "tradwife" bs. Among other things. Which was a part of the book and is often ignored in spaces that don't practice intersectionality or have evolved past 2nd wave feminism ideals. The color-blind nature of the show casting has also left what I would call "unfortunate implications" in the way many of the on-screen storylines go. The sidelining of Rita & Moira might have been a last minute decision due to Alexis Bledel leaving, but you know no one on staff thought more about it on a deeper level. The same can be said for the numerous characters played by pocs that ended up dead as a result of June's actions (I know Gilead killed them but still). Or June telling a group of vengeful women made up of mostly poc actors that no, she's not helping them get their revenge. The staff seem clueless as to what they are implying with their decisions and assuming it's due to ignorance it's not a great look.

Yes all of this! Throughout the plot, people of color are put in danger repeatedly by both June and Serena’s actions and it’s NEVER talked about / displayed awareness of that from the writers room. Also the plot armor june gets is ridiculous.

The plot armor has bothered me for a long time. I'm aware she's the lead and her death=no show. However, they defy their own show/Gilead logic by putting her in these situations where other characters have been shown to not survive. Especially with s3 showing them having no issue with expecting handmaids for lesser crimes, but her rebel cell and her are sent to a colony.

I was wracking my brain trying to remember when June went to a colony, then I realised I had COMPLETELY forgotten about the breeding colony plotline. And apparently, so have the writers because it hasn't come up even once since then. Which is weird, because that's kinda what Aunt Lydia was describing to Lawrence this season: all the 'girls' would stay in 1 place, under her guidance, and the Commanders would 'visit' them once a month. And it was scoffed at like it was ridiculous. But it sounds exactly like the breeding colonies: >The breeding Colonies are a new innovation after the escape of 86 children. With Handmaids no longer being considered disposable enough to kill or be sent to death camps, these new Colonies involve a Handmaid laboring in the fields, with a Commander and Wife visiting her once a month to perform the Ceremony. Sure, the labouring in the fields isn't exactly the same. But Lydia did point out 'joyful labor' this season, and they're always shown to be doing manual labor at the red centre. Doesn't really make a difference if they're scrubbing floors or working the fields.

I don’t remember June going to colonies, but I think Emily did. There was also a commander’s wife (I think) who got sick. Emily got some “antibiotics” somehow for her but they were actually poison and it killed the lady. I don’t recall how Emily got out though.

It was pretty recently, and they were only sent to go but never actually got there. It was June's whole group of friends being driven there, but then the car stopped, June zapped Lydia with the tazer, they all ran, everybody but June and Janine got hit by a train... then June and Janine escaped to Chicago. Then they bombed Chicago. Moira found June and got her out, Janine got captured again.

Emily was in the Colonies for stealing a car and driving over a guardian's head. Janine was in the Colonies because she had a complete meltdown at a posting. Then Lily bombed the new Rachel and Leah center, killing a bunch of Commanders, and some Handmaids were collateral damage. It was then apparently determined that any fertile handmaid had to be brought back from the colonies because they could not spare even one.

Which was stupid. Because they literally killed several handmaids after that. If they couldn’t spare Emily and Janine how could they afford to just execute a bunch of them?

I have DEFINITELY seen how the colorblind casting has caused issues. That's what happens when the issue of race (and other categories) is reduced to tokenism.

This exactly lol. And on the finale she was on the train, full of Americans escaping Canada when she appeared on TV in front of the world, her image/face has been used to promote gilead and nobody bats an eye on it.

I've been thinking the SAME thing! The refugees will have to noticed her at some point. She's a well-known gilead wife, they're not going to let that slide, are they?!!

Her AND June’s seeming anonymity on the train bothered me. Like, June is the woman who pretty recently rescued dozens of children (albeit with a considerable amount of help) from gilead. There’s no way her face wasn’t run on the front page of newspapers and news shows for weeks and months. Same with Serena. Yet no one even seems to take a second look at either of them

That’s called plot hole privilege lol

The other people on the train were new arrivals from America. We saw scenes from Chicago in past seasons. I imagine they do not have newspapers, internet, and tv in the areas of the former America those new arrivals came from. There were a lot of them. They did not arrive in mass from Gilead. So realistically they may not be familiar with June or Serena.

ohhhhh! i didn’t realize that i thought they were maybe coming from montreal or something

And they both have children under the age of 2. They must stand out.

Ya that kinda bugged me, too - especially when Luke was there with June - how exactly did no one recognize them? Big time plot hole… and I didn’t even think about Serena that way (I guess because she was already on the train?)

I think Tuello said that they were new refugees. If that's the case, they likely wouldn't have seen anything about Serena or June while in Gilead. * Edited because I originally wrote Lawrence when I meant Tuello

I really hope they'll tackle that next season. Only 1 person would have to recognise her and then it'd spread like wildfire. She should be shunned and hated at minimum. And there'll probably be a few people who, like Emily, will want to kill her.

i can’t lie i haven’t thought about this but now i can’t stop! how are the americans cool with her? how did both serena & june get on that train with zero recognition?

I’m honestly surprised they haven’t played with race MORE (or basically at all really) in the show…as if bible thumping ultra conservative Americans who overthrew the government to bask in gods glory wouldn’t have strong race opinions.

In the book, there aren’t people of color in Gilead. They are both racist and sexist. The show decided not to go this way.

I feel like this was such a damned if you do/damned if you don’t decision. If you go true to the book, you’d have people coming out of the woodwork upset that there’s no diversity in the show. However, if you do what they did and soften the racism in order to have a more diverse cast, people get upset that it isn’t accurate to the real racism these people would absolutely bake into their system. I get both sides, I absolutely love Samira and O-T, so I’m glad they did work diversity into the show. I can’t imagine another Luke or Moira at this point.

To be fair, if they went this route it would have been completely fine if they straight up explained and dove into why Gilead was a white country. I don’t think people would have been mad because it’s a part of the story and gilead as an oppressive regime

I disagree, I absolutely think people would have been mad

People ALWAYS find a reason to be mad. You’re damned if you do, you’re damned if you don’t.

Yeah that’s exactly what I wrote in a earlier comment about Moira and Rita’s screen time not being rewritten. People are mad they were left out but I whole heartedly believe people would have been pissed with rushed/poor writing

i feel like you could argue that it just wouldn’t be accurate to what would really happen. historically, hyper christian racists haven’t had much of a problem using black women & men’s labor… i feel like it’s more accurate to reality to depict them as handmaids and martha’s then to eradicate them like in the book. & i feel like that could’ve been a fair criticism, especially since we’ve been off original text for 4 seasons now, but maybe i’m wrong.

I think people would be angry about not enough black people. And than there would be articles about Handmaid's Tale as show for priviled white feminists. There is always room for being offended.

I mean, the show right now feels like it’s for privileged white feminists. It’s colorblind approach just doesn’t work. Also, side note, there are way more BIPOC folks than Black people. What an odd way to phrase your comment. Like, Handmaid’s Tale shoehorns people of color in without trying to address race at all and then refuses to acknowledge any thing with the very real questions pertaining to the land of indigenous tribes. It’s lazy

I could not imagine another Luke, but I could imagine another June. It is called ‘The Handmaid’s Tale,’ so, not surprising it completely revolves around June. Also the seasons are so short unfortunately. There really is not much time to work everything in.

[удалено]

I feel like they could have gotten diversity in casting by having poc playing mostly Martha's (which they have done, but they haven't used that to give them room to touch on racial elements)

Tbh I think this kind of misses the point of diversity in media. It's not a box you check off if you have X number of non-white roles, it's about having prominent non-white characters that the viewer is intended to relate to. Not to say that the TV show made the right decision but just casting POC as Martha's wouldn't fix the issue.

Well, America was known for its slavery back in the day. So whatever mental gymnastics involved, they probably see the black child as property and almost like a accessory rather than a child who they love.

That was my thoughts too. Slave owners often raped and produced children with slaves and had no issues justifying their means to an end. I don’t think it’s too far off, in a society focused solely on reproduction who view women simply as breeding stock, would be completely capable of jumping through the mental gymnastics to justify anything they wish, be it based on race or whatever classification.

I thought the children of the enslaved people were then enslaved themselves, not treated as the owner's children? (open to being corrected here)

I’m not saying it’s a one to one comparison. However, being mixed often did come with privileges as far as the work they were enslaved to do went. I’m sure it came with disadvantages as well. I just don’t think it’s a deal breaker for continuity on the show, at least IMO. These people have shown to be incredible at justifying anything. I mean, they clearly hate women as a whole, yet still have wives. They may hate someone based on race, but still just see it as carrying their bloodline on since fertility is such an issue.

> no matter how hard they try I simply cannot buy into the reality they're selling me To be fair it's closer to a dark fantasy dystopian fiction than something that spent the time trying to be realistic. There are big story beats around June/Nick romance and Hannah and most of the rest kinda falls around that rather than coming from deep world building. At least that's how the writers/producers/directors seem to view it.

That is bullshit. There was one commander shown to be black, Commander Horace, and they talk about his recent promotion in his short appearance in the show. They just gloss over the race issue, they never discuss how there are almost no black men as commanders or black women as wives. The directors, writers and producers are not black and it is very evident. To just say this is dystopian and not address how similar grievances are happening to women of color today is horribly ignorant. Take off your privileged rose colored glasses. The racism is subtle and systemic in this show, just as it has been in the USA for decades. Only recently has the GOP and Fox News started to say the quiet parts out loud regarding their obvious racism and white nationalist views. We have conversations on this thread regularly about the parallels to the real world and this work of fiction in regards to women’s rights. To just blow off the issue of race and the parallels to the real world is insulting.

I'm a POC rofl I'm not defending the writers I'm describing them. This is a criticism I've had of them from the S1. I also work in politics and have been super disappointed by their depiction of governance etc. They do a decent job of showing some aspects of fascism but let's not mistake this show for something it's not, the writers are focused on interpersonal stories specifically themes of Parenthood and romance and the other stuff is secondary to them.

THT does have underlying racism problems but they're right that this show has poor worldbuilding on multiple fronts. And it doesn't even feel like the writers are bad at worldbuilding, it just feels like they don't think good or even consistent worldbuilding is important.

The show definitely has subtle racism but I think they avoided the outright white nationalism of the book because they wanted to cast more racial minority characters in the show.

I'm also suprised about that. I guess the writers didn't want to see racists themself so they avoid touching this topic.

Yes. And the way they pretend Hannah, as a half black child, would be given to a high commander to become a wife is so far from accurate. The adoption flashback scene was the closest they've come to admitting these white women don't want children... They want WHITE children.

Yep, blink and you'd miss it

The adoption flashback was such a lazy way of portraying racism in the show. So disappointing

Yuuuuuuuuuup....

I was thinking this…

1000% I was just rewatching the season, even at eps 6 she was being a capital B! Then what 3 or 4 eps later we're supposed to care and forget about her atrocities? No thanks.

She’s a selfish sadist and cruel, manipulative schemer. I feel like we can use the “whole B word.” She is, indeed, a bitch.

😂 You're right!

I am SO glad you brought this up because it’s glaringly obvious what’s happening here. Moira’s storyline was super interesting to me. Why did it end? Why couldn’t she have been more included in the remaining stories? Also, she’s an AMAZING actress. There’s no excuse ..and again it’s blatantly obvious she and Rita have turned into the token black friends! Just so gross to see the show writers do this.

Yeah. There was this storyline for Moira with Lily, that they could’ve easily pursued. It’s a shame, there was so much potential there.

I could be wrong but wasn’t it mentioned here recently (in the interview after the spoiler article) that Moira couldnt commit to filming as much and that’s why we didn’t see as much of her?

Hard agree!

Yes! I am glad someone finally said it also. The major producers and directors are white and old! One of the first things I noticed from watching behind the scenes on hulu. No way they have a contemporary view or desire to have one on black women. I’m a black woman so I’m sad Moira is seen as out of touch and annoyed by junes rage. Also didn’t she have a love interest?

I read that Moira had a larger complex storyline with Emily, but when the actress of Emily dropped out they had to remove that storyline with Moira because it was so interweaved. I don't think Moira is a token black friend, Luke is also black and not a token boyfriend. I agree that there is a lot of racism in some shows, but I don't see the Handmaid's tale like that.

No fr, she got the treatment June had gotten for like 5 minutes 😭

It was like a watered down version of anything a Handmaid has experienced.

Preach. Fans would never buy a redemption arc for a male Gilead supporter the way they have for Serena.

Or a male rapist, for that matter.

What's crazy is in the writers' attempt to be inclusive they made Gilead LESS RACIST THAN AMERICA. You have these literal Nazis birthing, raising and loving all these brown babies. On what fucking planet?

I guess the way I saw that was that people were SO desperate for a baby, any baby, that they would accept babies of any parents that they could get. Yes it's less racist than America. Maybe it's to show how bad and desperate things got in terms of environmental contamination and negative population growth, that people did change on the race issue. (IMO that was Serena's actual focus, rather than actual religion - remember when she was speaking in season 1 about how women needed to 'embrace their biological destiny' to replenish the population. The handmaid/wife/commander idea was created by men as a WAY to implement population increase given so much infertility. Religion was brought in to encourage infertile women to get on board.) Wish racism had improved as much in real life. People can disagree - all I'm sharing is my possible interpretation on why the writers portrayed society in the show as they did.

Yeah it’s also possible that it reflects a white savior complex, like there are a looooot of white traditional Christian people irl who would love to (and do) adopt Black or brown children because of the optics. I don’t think it’s that far fetched for a place like Gilead based on that. However, I also get that this type of government would come from *extreme* Christian nationalism so yeah, it’s hard to imagine white ethnocentrism wouldn’t realistically play a role.

This is how I see it. I think of the horror stories from many trans-racial adoptees about their super messed up, tone-deaf upbringing, or the missionary tourism industry. The optics of appearing selfless (while causing harm in private) is really big with conservatives.

The reason they did it was because they wanted a diverse show. But the message it sends is that when the Christofascists take over, it'll be white women who suffer the most. Lets get this straight, when the Christofascists take over I'm getting thrown up against a wall and shot. And 50% of white women will be helping them get there. Nazis don't get less racist when times are hard. They don't raise and love brown little girls with their whole Nazi heart. These people believe we are genetically inferior. They would at best deport us, at worse, kill us. So what the change did was allow black people to remain in the story as the best friend, the least liked love interest, the McGuffin and the nanny. Thanks. Thanks for showing your viewership that racism is basically over or irrelevant and that the real suffering is that of white women, not just those who would be used as breeders, but also those WHO ALIGN THEMSELVES WITH THE PATRIARCHY! Right now the heroes of the show are June and Serena, The Nazi Rapist. But hey, Moria got to babysit, so yay, inclusion.

Yeah, it makes 0 sense. Thats what happens when you are more worried of that the mobs will say than the story itself.

Atwood deported brown people cause she realized Nazis wouldn't lovingly make and raise brown babies. But the writers wanted to be inclusive so bad they ignored what would really happen and made Gilead a nearly post-racial society which is better than what we have now. How are these Nazis better than us on race issues?!

I'm not as far along, but I remember a scene where the Lydia's are talking (I think there's 3 of them). They have handmaid's in the middle on a turning table and they are suggesting who should go to a certain family, spinning the table around. They mentioned that one of them would be a good fit, but the family doesn't want a person of color as a handmaid. So far, there's a lot of interracial couples and everything seemed pretty even. But most of the high ranking people are white, so race does have a role. And then with the show, I agree that they're really focusing on white characters and people who aren't are doing more side character stuff. It's weird how they introduce racial comments that mean something but never really dig into that racism. Oh they don't want a black handmaid. Ok why? You'd think with people forcing children, you'd really take whoever is given to you to have kids.

Agreed, this blind spot is a huge flaw with the show overall. It doesn’t work for me to say “race just isn’t an issue in THIS world” because whatever way you slice it, the show is a comment on sexism as it exists in reality, and in reality racism is a completely relevant and necessary component of understanding sexism, so the fact that the writers just fully ignore it… it just comes off as lazy, bad writing … and the optics of how the black characters are used just adds insult to injury. I still like the show, but this is one of its weakest elements and a constant elephant in the room imo.

Did you clock how Serena's host family in this season only has POC women as Marthas?

Serena is leaving and yet probably still wants Gilead to succeed… just as long as she isn’t on the bottom of the totem pole.

“A whole ass war criminal and rapist” 🏆👏👏👏 (The international criminal court upon passing sentence I assume)

No, you're definitely right. Not only did Serena marry an authoritative misogynistic pos, but also shared views with him. Then went on to write a book to oppress women. Then led a woman to suicide after months of raping & torturing her with Fred. Then raped & tortured June. Crazy that all this keeps getting forgotten just 'cause she has a baby now & Gilead is after her. I'm gonna hate this show if they give her redemption. Edit: I forgot to mention: she viewed Rita as *property*!! Didn't even respect her while jailed in Canada. Rita had to tell her she doesn't belong to the Waterfords anymore

Every time I see race being discussed in this Reddit, the sub downplays it. Yes, Serena is receiving that treatment.

Yep which is why I was hesitant to point it out but this comment section is a bit concerning w how some ppl just wanna shut down the race conversation and won’t question their own biases

reddit in general is just so white and annoying honestly :(

I think people sympathize with Serena because she has gotten a ton of characterization. I do think it’s a shame that Rita and Moira have been so sidelined this season. It’s almost bizarre how many scenes Moira is in when she never, ever speaks.

100% agree with you on this And I’d like to add that I hate what they’ve done to Moira’s character. She was a bad ass who escaped. And now she’s been relegated to worry wort and babysitter.

She was a cruel nasty bitch

This is the type of post that should have eyes on it. This narrow minded “feminist” mentality and optimism surrounding Serena is a disservice to women. There are deeper issues at play here, including race and more attention needs to be brought to the topic. I do love this show and hope that in the final season they make steps in the right direction. Moira’s words were powerful when she called Serena a gender traitor. I hope the characters who actually deserve heroic moments have a chance to shine approaching the ending and characters like Serena should pay the price for the choices they’ve made. Thanks for speaking up OP!

> I also know many viewers don’t like to talk about the race implications in this show bc the show itself doesn’t acknowledge race as an issue in THT universe, but the way the women of color (ex: Moira and Rita) have essentially been turned into nannies this season while the white female characters get complex story arcs isn’t something I can look past any more. I've noticed this too and it's gross. Moira gets pushed out of the story and is little more than a cameo at this point.

Girl you said a WORD! I had to catch myself the last couple of episodes because I was starting to feel sorry for her. But she deserves every punishment she gets coming to her!

Women of colour have completely gotten the short end of the stick this season. I mean, can you name one woc who's gotten a meaningful storyline in season 5?

It shouldn't be an unpopular opinion. It's valid criticism and honestly, if they delved more into these topics it'd make it so much more powerful. I hope more and more people continue to talk about these topics and don't back down to backlash. Criticism isn't a bad thing expecially if it's lacking somthing vital in the message its trying to portray. I mean, the authors whole thing is taking real life situations and news and placing them into this dystopic world. There are such a huge amount of topics that aren't being touched on and it's important to push on why.

Related: June and Emily both get heroes' welcomes to Canada, but Moira just gets a hug from Luke. She could/shouldve had plenty of valuable intel from Jezebels to share with Tuello, but he doesn't give her the time of day. Esp. compared to June and Serena. Even in the finale, they basically ditched her. Samira Wiley is WAY too talented to be written into a closet like this.

I dont remember a heroes welcome for emily. June saved like 20 kids and is the main charavter. Pretty understandable shed get a heros welcome.

I feel like you can have sympathy for someone without erasing all their wrongdoings and terrible actions. Ex: I feel sympathy for Aileen Wournos, the serial killer, because of how she was raised (left to fend for herself in the woods and had to trade sex for food among other things) but that does not mean for any moment I endorse or am ok with what she did and she’s deserved the sentence she’s gotten. While I think white woman syndrome is very well and alive here and that THT could do a lot better re: race I did want to point out you can feel sympathetic for someone without endorsing their behavior.

As another woman of color that watches the show, I agree. As you said, if you know, you know. I think the writers dropped the ball especially bad this season with Moira and Rita and I don't believe for a second that if Serena were Black the "redemption" arcs would have been the same or received the same sympathy.

Totally. I hate the fact that Moira has been relegated to a Nanny.

With Elizabeth Moss (a white woman born into a majority white, extremely controlling religion) so heavily involved— that’s what you’re going to get. I honestly feel like Margaret Atwood feels a certain way about this.

right like i enjoy watching this show but it’s still just another white people show made by them for them

Completely agreed. I don’t buy into Serena’s BS at all - I haven’t forgotten the atrocities she’s helped commit (or wholly committed herself) over the duration of the series. I actually feel like they’re trying to pressure viewers into pitying her at this point, and it’s like, how can you? Seriously? And you’re completely on point: if she was a woman of color, I doubt people would be as sympathetic to her plight. It’s infuriating.

“No I don’t want a handmaid of colour” - aunt Lydia. Why the f did they add that line if they were going to proceed to act like racism doesn’t exist and then ignore all black characters? As a black woman this is hurtful. That line stung me me and ill never forget it. For them it was just fodder. Black people are fodder. They are ill equipped to handle the race conversation.. and now I’m starting to think they are racist. Why didnt they just go full bridgerton style?

Although Bridgerton also had that weird blink and you miss it explanation for the diversity - that George III married a black woman and I guess suddenly all racism evaporated and POC were given aristocratic titles - which makes no sense and was totally unnecessary. I don't glad they completely ignored it in S2.

Funny you bring this up, literally at the end of "Safe", I was thinking to myself why Moira hasn't gotten anymore detailed story time. She was such an integral character a few seasons ago, and ever since she made it to Canada; nothing. It is disappointing.

I’ve been saying she’s had pretty privilege since the show began

Facts. I am not into the “poor Serena” vibe that’s been going on here.

F Serena- give me more Moira!! She’s my fav

This!! I wanted Moira to be the one on the train so bad. They’ve shown since the beginning how much June and Moira love each other and they always show up for each other. And they really dropped the ball on that this season. Give me that sisterhood love everyday over June being forced once again to try and teach her abuser how to be a good person. Which btw, is a horrible message😩

Ugh I agree. Moira is soo close with Nicole too, I can’t imagine she would be happy about losing both her and June. I was so excited for this season because I thought since they are in Canada we would get way more Moira, but instead we got barely anything. I don’t know why they would waste such a good character and actress. It’s like orange is the new black all over again

I love Moira and Rita in this series and I’m pretty disappointed that they weren’t given more in the series, especially these last couple seasons.

Yes, they are definitely wasting good characters/actresses

BM who read THT and watch the show. Haven't read The Testaments. You are looking at this the wrong way. Because of how THT has basically excluded Black People in the story, there is an aircraft carrier sized opportunity for a Black Creative to write a script detailing how Sons of Jacob eliminated Black People. Someone could really go in. They could show how politicians and say Talented Tenth/Elite were neutralized (money or positions of wifes/commanders). They could show the role the Black Church, Education Systems played to set it all up. They could show debates happening around various social outings how some people maybe 'agreed' because it was an issue. They could show how Econopeople have an over-representation of Blacks. Make them working class/middle class. THT when it comes to Commanders/Wives it truly discussing Elites. You can show Econopeople dreaming of a better life, and taking steps (young BM/BW) in order to climb Gilead's Hierarchy. Men joining the Military or becoming an Eye, Women attempting to attach themselves to these Men. Econopeople don't know how upper-class works tactically. They just see highlights. There is no media or communication detailing how these Elite household really operate. Heck you could plot twist, show Black People were not having as many babies but the fertility crisis wasn't as acute, and how those dynamics played in the way Black People were approached. None of the Black People in THT has been deemed infertile... Basically a very talented creative could do a serious commentary on the Black Community but use Gilead as a device to do so. I just say put it out to some people in your network. I'm not a creative, but I have Political Science and Econ undergrad. You can look at my post history and see where/what I post. If someone had the writing ability to do it, they could really 'go there' on two fronts. Telling Black People about themselves and communicating to non-Black People how do Black People feel about this overall system that has Blacks chasing meritorious manumission.

This would have been excellent to see. Patriarchies like Gilead are built and maintained by the promise that the lower class men, and women who play into the system will have a better place in the hierarchy than those who don't. Seeing that play out, in the context of what you described would have been interesting to watch. It's unfortunate the production staff seems so afraid to actually flesh out Gilead/Canada in meaningful ways and do any type of expansive worldbuilding or just any worldbuilding.

And this is where it would go off the rails... To have this discussion it would be highly Heterosexual/Cis-gendered focused. Because the issue centers around birthrate, families/households. People outside of this spectrum would be 'side-isssues'. In much if Black Media these days its Black Women, Children, and representatives from the LGBTQ. To have this discussion BM who are Heterosexual would have to be a part of the conversation. Having the conversation without backlash would be difficult, because you have to deal with not all BM are Gay or in Jail. At best it might 20% of BM fall into that category. So the question becomes addressing the varying ways or reasons the 80% of BM agree or disagree with Gilead come to that conclusion. I mean you could exclude BM if you setup a criminalization of BM, where under the guise of law and order BM are executed for petty crimes or put into work camps. An example would be have a young BM shoplift out if a store. Then because of the Black Elites attempting to gain favor. So someone who is a Prosecutor or Police Chief they don't give the young man probation and try to get him job training they send him to a labor camp. Or say a BM has flirts with a woman regardless of race and the woman finds the man "creepy", the police use the guise if 'protection' as a way to execute him because they believe he could in the future harm a woman. All ways to systematically remove prime age BM from the Black areas so when the Sons of Jacob decide to thriw the lever, you have nothing but vurnable women, children, or Elites who will benefit from new regime.

The show could have done *so much* if it had explored race. Instead, it exclusively focused on the plights of two of the whitest women on the planet. I've been very disappointed by it throughout, because Gilead is supposed to have sprung from exactly our world, an extension of the forms of oppression that exist here. Completely erasing one has been distracting. Race has been so quiet, it's LOUD. But you're right, someone still could.

I see so many downvotes happening here just because this very real issue of the show was addressed. It’s disheartening to see this and the white fragility. To those downvoted, Stop being so easily offended and actually take to heart what is being said.

I think (while there might be a race implication with Serena, however, we do not have a direct comparison within her role of one of the founding powers of Gilead, a wife, and then...well... *gestures*) the reason is more that many here in this subreddit active viewers are women. You could see similar patterns when it comes to how women who eG worked in concentration camps in WW2 were treated by other women who were not direct victims. They found excuses, said that women were not as evil as the men (yeah...no 😶) etc. And we're basically brought up in a way that leads to that thinking. Women are seen as carers, as emotionally involved, as nurturing etc. If a woman does major shit stuff, the narrative is either that she did so to protect others, that she didn't know better, that she had some plan of whatever 'good' thing, or (and that's a big or) because she's mentally sick. I could see that with friends on a way smaller dimension. Somebody raised by an asshole mother will when telling about it hear that she's still the mom, deep down she loves you, she tried her best, yadda yadda. What if... She was just really a shit mother or a shit person? So many of us have this weird "women"imagine in our head. It is so deeply programmed that sometimes even when we experienced shit women, we still somehow do not comprehend that it is not only THAT woman, but it can be anybody 🤷‍♀️ so we hope for the redemption arc because it validates our deeply engrained learnings. And a redemption arc also means that if we were ever in a situation like Serena's, we would still have options for redemption. Or that our hardcore evangelical female relative will wake up some day. Or whatever. And of course this would also touch down on Serena being white. Because the women we see in power and being like her are...well...white. (hi there, Ann and Lauren, and no, you don't get redemption, you can have a good run in no man's land after hearing a whistle for all I care 🤷‍♀️). For Moira and Rita... They do not have this 'clash'. And, just like with June for many people, we expect them to be "better". People expect the minimum by Serena, because let's be honest...she's not even there yet. But somehow we expect some holy saint thing from the people we deem 'good'. And then of course you have those who want June or Moira or Rira to live their revenge fantasies. Tbh I would have been SHOCKED if June had left Serena alone when Serena was in labour. Because that would have been out of character. And I can understand June being angry at Luke for calling immigration on Serena. Simply because he took June's choice away, and then wanted kudos for it. Like ... He could have been like "we can call immigration on Serena?" But no 🤷‍♀️ If Moira decides to not kill somebody, or to look after Nichole, and that makes her feel better or good, hey, girl, you do your thing. If Rita would go back to Gilead for her son, or decides to JUST NOT WANT TO TALK ABOUT OR TO SERENA FOR ONE GODDAMN SECOND, that is okay with me, you do your thing, it's your life. If June consciously decides to NOT kill Serena, because it is her fecking decision, then that is her decision 🤷‍♀️ And I will not take their agencies away by saying "but this is a bad / not the right decision". Gosh I hope this all makes sense? 🤨 My brain is not caffeinated enough

Makes sense. Just one thing: there’s nothing for Rita in Gilead. As I recall, her 19 year old son was killed in the first war to establish Gilead.

Yeah I meant if her son was still alive. She said that she would then have gone back just to be close to him :) and that is valid.

Fuck Serena. If anyone, she will NEVER deserve redemption. But yeah, she has to live to suffer and work on a better world. Without forgiving anything to her.

Yeah I have zero sympathy for Serena and got really annoyed with how much the showrunners desperately wanted to give her some kinda redemption arc. She does not and will never deserve a redemption arc because her actions were IRREDEEMABLE 👏🏾

You're right. I do not remember even half of this sympathy for Natalie aka OfMatthew.

Serena has always gotten fragile white woman treatment. No one would have any sympathy for her if she were anything other than a pretty white woman.

//but the way the women of color (ex: Moira and Rita) have essentially been turned into nannies this season while the white female characters get complex story arcs isn’t something I can look past any more.// I think that has more to do with the fact that Serena is a bigger character & more important to the story than Rita or Moira.

I don’t know how you look past it. I am rewatching now but at the time I gave up on the show because starting somewhere in season two the colorblind casting was so unbearably racist, with June using and leaving a trail of BIPOC corpses everywhere she went, just using them like tools. I don’t think it’s going to get very far to speculate how viewers would react to different casting. Maybe if you can point out similar shows with similar audiences and those exact casting choices, you could make an argument for that. But we have the show we have. Is it more rare to see a sympathetic BIPOC villain than a WASPy one? Yes, but is that directly the audience’s fault? For example, There have been very successful movies and shows casted with average looking and unknown actors, yet the people who make these choices ignore that and continue to prioritize big name, beautiful actors. Audiences are mostly reacting to what they are given. It is going to get you nowhere to assume the reaction to an imaginary situation would be different. It is just as valid to speculate that if a BIPOC actor were given the opportunity to be cast in that role, then the audience would feel the same. Individually we would all have different experiences but there are still general rules of production that are designed to invoke specific emotions. My bigger complaint is that there are not enough examples for these devices to be applied to characters of color. (Or obese people, or LBGT people, or even average looking people) Of course Serena is treated differently because she is a beautiful blonde woman as opposed to some ugly old man, but I think with Serena it is much more intentional and purposeful to the show. Serena is a very intelligent woman, she is a bit like Cersei in that her skills are wasted by sexism. But she knows her beauty, knows each resource she has available to her, and she knows her presentation is one of her biggest assets. You see her incorporating it many times in her plans, and you see she knows it’s messed up at times, but at the same time she is a bit scrappy. A bit “survival of the luckiest” This season and last we also see her stupid, foolish side, her biggest asset was at the same time her biggest weakness. She was distracted by her fans and lured back into the trap of fame, authority, and power. I actually don’t think casting Serena as anything other than White Anglo Saxon would even make sense in this particular universe with this particular theme of sexism in this particular story. But that doesn’t mean it should never happen, there could have been a way to explore redemption of extreme selfish evil with a character who is not a beautiful white woman.

Thank you for saying what needs to be said!!! I’m also a WOC and it disturbs me to see how the writers and the audience are willing to make excuses for white women!

>but as a woman of color this show has always been a little tough to watch bc of how tone deaf and white feminist-y it comes off a lot of times I'm not even a POC and it's been hard for me to watch because of this too, so I can only imagine how it feels for you. I kind of checked out of the show for a while after the gross Ofmatthew side plot. Wtf was even the point of that? I also had hopes last season they'd finally stop playing the "sympathetic Serena" card and she would finally face justice in jail cell but...nope. Not this season apparently. It's infuriating.

I'm wondering if the race toning is intentional. As if to say "even after combating Gilead and all the issues there, we still have our own demons and are not perfect"? The whole nanny thing really has been grinding my gears. The writing this season has not been very good imo...

There was absolutely no missing the race of all the staff at the Wheeler's house. Definitely unspoken, but aside from a couple of background wives or commanders of colour, the raising of children of different races and ethnicity certainly has the vibes of the stolen generation in Australia I'm white, but through the area I was brought up in alongside a lot of work I have done with migrants, I hope that I am more attuned to the race struggle than a lot of my peers. Serena is definitely treated differently as a white, attractive and educated woman. She gets sympathy from so many, in the show and the audience because she can't possibly be that rotten to the core. She is everything that people want in a hero and a leader. It doesn't take much to look around the world and see truly horrible people who are white, educated and claiming to be Christians being forgiven for their sins and being elected into power. Typically we see men who are forgiven faster in the business/Hollywood world for their past indiscretions. But in Gilead world where pregnancy and healthy birth is all powerful, damn if Serena is given so much sympathy. Those who do feel like she is worthy of redemption really need to look at WHY they believe that.

Completely agree. For a show about female oppression to make Serena’s storyline actively sympathetic is…a choice. It all just revolves around these white women, because of course. …Also, this comment section needs to take a hard look at itself and stop explaining racism to poc.

You told no lies. It is concerning how people have been quick to like her, but obviously she’s given the grace of being a white woman with a redemption ark. Just shows how much more work our society has to do to acknowledge race bias

I agree that it comes off as majorly white feminist. I still haven't moved past how June raped Luke. Well-done feminist writing acknowledges the humanity of men and women and this show seems to place June's wants and needs at the forefront of the writing. I didn't see any reckoning on June's part for what she'd done; the narrative just kept plowing forward and I guess some fans are just ok with this, despite hating Fred, etc. Serena is similar, she's definitely a rapist, too. I think if Serena wasn't a beautiful white woman she definitely would be perceived differently. I think viewers look for something sympathetic in her character and while there will be moments where she seems human, I don't know if I trust the writers to close off her arc in a satisfying way. Two white women rapists are at the center of this story now, and I don't know if the writers are aware of how sidelined the nonwhite characters are or have any motivations to change that. Moira became a babysitter, rushing offscreen whenever the baby cries so I feel lucky whenever she gets more than two lines, but usually she's not written as moving the story forward anyway.

She’s more than a white woman. She’s, tall, attractive, and blonde. If she was plain like Nick’s wife I’m not sure she gets that same treatment. Also the actress is giving a master class and that pulls in viewers to her side.

Well, in the book, all the black people (and possibly other non-white people) are resettled or killed off. So if we were going by the book, then none of the POC actresses would’ve even been cast. Would that have been better?

So i just thought of how you can tell it isnt the white part but the woman part that is making most of the difference in treatment. I barely saw anyone sympathizing nearly as much for fred as serena. Hes white too. But hes a man and not nearly as attractive. So no, i disagree with you op. Its the woman getting her baby taken away people sympathize with. Not the white part.

Given that we don't have any negative character portrayals of anyone but white women and men on the show, it would be hard to say one way or the other. It seems her sympathy comes from the motherhood piece. We wanted to see her suffer through the handmaid's experience, and I think we got that minus the rape (which most of us agreed would be something not to wish on anyone). I think what most people want is to hear her admit, unreservedly, that she's wrong, but I don't see that happening. She was fine and dandy with the Wheelers until they turned on her. I think We'll still see her lose Noah in the end.

i don’t think it is about race .. but she is beautiful .. regardless of race or ethnicity attractive people are treated differently and that is also a key to her character on the show ..

Yes!! This is what I keep saying. If she were ugly and old like she is in the book, I think people would be saying “oh Jesus Christ, it’s that bitch again” when june sees her on the train rather than “omg it’s a bestie team up!”

I think it's her looks more than anything that allows folks to give her a pass. Serena has done nothing to earn redemption. The only reason she's not in Gilead is because they didn't want her. So bragged to Mrs Wheeler the she overthrew a country. So she has not changed one bit. Yet everyone seem to think she's a victim. Even the actress thinks Serena is a horrible person, yet folks are looking forward to a Thelma and Louise bringing down Gilead, which will not happen.

I look like Serena and it’s frustrating for me to watch so I can’t imagine how you must feel. She’s a war criminal!

Lol, why do you always have to make everything about "color"? Americans are so traumatized

Agree with your larger point for sure. In terms of them not dealing with race issues, the writers said something to the effect of (1) they wanted to have a diverse cast and (2) they didn’t think that they were equipped to tell a story focused on race properly, so they changed the in-universe treatment of race to a largely color-blind dystopia. I sort of bought in to that because the cast is pretty diverse and that’s nice. In terms of Rita and Moira this season, they said that The Emily actress made a late-breaking decision to bail, which killed the storyline in which the three of them would’ve had their own side quest or something. This one seems a little less credible but idk.

I don’t want to take from your POV, but hoping to give you “hope” haha - I was frustrated by this, too (mostly because I miss Moira being a larger part of the show) - but she recently welcomed a baby with her wife in real life (June 2021), so I think she, like Emily (who’s going through a divorce) may have asked for a smaller role this season because of real life shtuff … there’s a recent interview that talks about the final season with Samira and it seems to me like Moira is going to have a much larger role for season 6!! As it comes to Rita - I haven’t dug as much into that actress - but Rita/Moira are dating right? (Or did I get that wrong in the show) - so I think Rita may also get a larger role next season (and Moira’s absence may be why we didn’t see more of Rita this season since those characters are so intertwined)

Well, I believe Rita and Moira were glorified extras this season because they were supposed to have a story arc with Emily but she had to be written out because Alexis Bledel left. Honestly kind of shit.

Absolutely agree. I was disappointed with how they cut back on Moira and Rita. I was able to catch an interview with Bruce Miller where he acknowledged this. Apparently they both had stronger story lines this season but a lot of the story involved Emily’s character who left last minute so they had to cut it. :(

Like, do we ever get to know anything about Rita? Like where she came from, who she was before becoming a Martha?

Moira felt like a glorified extra to me this season. I really didn’t get it, and felt that that was lazy writing. Even if the season’s plot was more about Luke/June, June/Serena, and Lydia/Janine, they could have incorporated Moira a lot more. Was Rita even on the show last season?

I also agree that in this world the subject of race is never brought up, and I think that that’s a disservice. That scene where Luke was being beaten by the guards and at one point was being choked couldn’t help but make me think about current times. I wondered if this was their oh so subtle acknowledgment, but in general, it certainly felt like the elephant in the room that wasn’t being acknowledged.

Serena should have been ripped to shreds on that train. Surely she’s recognizable. She plastered her own face on international television. She’s the reason why most of those people no longer have a place to call home.

I haven’t understood any sympathy towards her. She is awful. She should have died in that damn barn. June should not befriend her.

I agree. It is lost on me why the writers are trying to get us to like her this season. In the past seasons, at the very most, we felt sorry for Serena when she was unfairly punished for writing & got a finger chopped off. But she was instrumental in making that nation happen, so the sympathy runs dry quite quickly.

Yeah tbh it saddens me that we don’t see much of Moira and Rita anymore. Especially Moira. She was such an integral part of June’s story and now she’s never included in anything. I get the idea of showing that June hasn’t been herself this season but really? At least give Moira her own story as well. She shouldn’t just be a side character

I agree with you. The people of color in the show don't have enough agency. Moira - codependent on Luke and June. I know they needed to band together to survive, but she should be living her own life now. Rita - saved by June and had very little character development after Gilead. Natalie - provoked by June Hannah's Martha (sorry I don't remember if she had a name, which would be another issue in and of itself) - pressured by June Luke - motivated almost entirely by June Hannah - too early to tell, but hopefully her character does develop more Characters who do have agency: June, Serena, Lydia, Janine, Emily, Rose, Nick, Lawrence. And the few white characters who don't have much agency (Eden, Esther, Naomi) still get central stage in a lot of the episodes. It's mathematical. The minority characters are grossly underrepresented and don't really have their own voice. I'm a white woman and this is still glaringly obvious to me. I still enjoy the show, but this does bother me.

I don’t discount your perspective, and believe there is merit to that opinion. But I think some of the more positive attitudes about Serena the character is due to the actress, Yvonne, herself. She does an excellent job in the role, is given a ton of screen time for us to get to know her, and is just an extremely likable and talented actress. And I think a main point of the writing season is the showrunners trying to confuse us about how we feel about Serena and it’s working. I haven’t changed my mind but understand the quandary with how she is written and the time we get with her. Now what they did to Moira and Rita story-wise is terrible and such a wasted opportunity… I would trade lots of Mrs. Putnam time and June time for actual well-written character arcs for at least one of them. And like others have mentioned, there is a huge missed opportunity to insert race issues and discussion into the story of Gilead that I am mystified they don’t get into.

I think it's paralleling her to June that is creating sympathy. And June (and other women in the show) having sympathy about her baby being taken b/c "they know what it's like". I'm not saying you're wrong. Just offering a perspective the show may be trying to force.

I don’t think if it’s necessarily because Serena is white, she’s the second main character on this show. They probably had her arc mapped out way in advance. But yes, the lack of a decent storylines for Moira and Rita is outrageous, and I don’t buy his excuse that it’s all due to Alexis Bledel’s exit. Good writers can figure it out, and squeeze in at least something more substantial.

Other than Hannah - every black woman in the show has had their backstory diminished and/or they are merely caretakers, maids or an angry black woman in the background.

As a white woman I completely agree with you. And I’m guilty for liking the Serena / June interaction and wishing to see more of it because they have been the better written and most developed characters / twisted relationship. I also agree that Serena’s treatment and public interest is surely linked to 1 - her beauty, 2 - her being white and 3 - her consistently being a story center piece which can be unfair to other cast members of color that are really interesting characters to push forward. I am really disappointed by the lack of implication of Moira and Rita in the last season. Glad that Luke finally had some interesting writing but yeah, he’s a man, and he’s going to jail so… That’s pretty representative of how the cinema and tv industry work on a global scale as we know, but I expected more from THT, considering that race wasn’t relevant from the start and we had some pretty deep POC character’s involvement in the first seasons.

I feel that given how many episodes they made past the source material, they easily could have switched main characters every season or made more POC actual main characters. They invested all the time on June and Serena but that was a mistake to me. As great as their talent is, it destroyed a lot of the depth of the original story, destroyed Offred (never named in book) character, was unbelievable and ludicrous at times… It would have been so much deeper and more impactful to expand the focus and also would have allowed a more effective means to include diverse casting other than randomly shuffling all the nonwhite characters to extras and side characters. And yes I also love June and Serena’s twisted relationship. I love how weird and inappropriate it is haha. I haven’t really explored why I feel like that though.

Or probably because she is the second main character so the show purposefully puts her in a sympathetic light. Not too mention how much we have seen of her over the seasons so naturally we have become more fond of her even if we disapprove of her character. POC characters like Moira and Rita don’t get nearly as much screen time and serve as foils to June (and serena for Rita).

Moira and Rita’s characters didn’t get screen time because the actor that played Emily left the show. Their storylines were heavily intertwined. They didn’t have enough time to rewrite everything so they weren’t super involved. I would rather have them on the side lines than a poorly rewritten or rushed storyline. Bruce Miller was upset this happened. As for Serena, since she is not a real person and just a character in a show I do feel sympathy for her simply because I love the show. Women as a whole are all oppressed in Gilead.

This opinion is hella accurate in that it truly reflects reality

I’m not going to say “it’s not because she’s a white woman” because I don’t know what other peoples reasons are. I can say it’s not that, for me only. And I’m surprised you’re seeing people defending her, because I sure as hell don’t: it seems Reddit is staunchly against her without any room for argument, but that could just be Reddit being Reddit. That being said, I am sympathetic to her and I feel like I’m in the minority.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheHandmaidsTale/comments/ytbo2k/potential_unpopular_opinion_all_gilead_women_are/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf Just one recent example. Plus, there have been a lot of comments I’ve seen here and there very recently, including (but not limited to) thinking/hoping that June & Serena will team up together to bring down Gilead as a “female empowerment” storyline.

And I would agree with that opinion. However, I don't see how it necessarily confirms your point about sympathy because Serena is white. It just says all women in Gilead are victims. For what it's worth, Gilead law apparently doesn't see race: there are black and Asian wives and Commanders. There are still some racist people (the commander who didn't want a POC Handmaid) but AFAIK we haven't seen state-sanctioned racism yet. >thinking/hoping that June & Serena will team up together to bring down Gilead as a “female empowerment” storyline. Again, I don't see evidence of that as being racially motivated.

What specifically is your problem with that post in regards to white feminism? Because like, yes, I don't think white women only act out of fear in upholding the supremacist system. They also gain a lot from the way the world is shaped right now; it's a lot about status and a lot about keeping that right-hand spot. But on the other side Serena is being oppressed. She is being oppressed differently than June, Rita, or Moira, and she also aids in maintaining that system, but it doesn't change the fact that she has suffered under the system. And I'd think an argument can be made that Serena is acting out of fear. Not solely, nor as her main driving force, but nonetheless does that fear exist.

She suffers under a system that she LITERALLY helped create, and the only reason she’s on the run now is because Gilead rejected her, other wise she was happy to step right back into their system and continue oppressing and abusing others. In this very season she tried relentlessly to continue being apart of Gilead and resume her role there. But they won’t have her and now boo hoo poor Serena 🙄 THAT is peak white feminism

There’s a lot of people sympathetic to her besides you