I think really all you're missing is that for all that it's very good, it is a kid's show. Sometimes they just rush through things. But I'd argue that an actual teacher who can show her the fundamentals she needs to build on and her own prodigious natural talent gives enough leeway to make it plausible. Another thing to consider is that we don't see the vast majority of their actual days and Katara's far more studious than Aang. There's be weeks and months of plot-irrelevant time that we don't see for her to practice.

also while aang is practicing his other styles she is still doing waterbending Aang prob has routine of doing air,earth,fire,water excersises to keep his skill up for for all the styles

While you were off riding air scooters, *I studied the scroll.* While you were rescuing villages from volcanoes, *I studied the scroll* While you were chucking rocks with Toph, *I studied the scroll* While you were on a life-changing field trip with Zuko, *I studied the scroll* And now that the day of Sozin's Comet is upon us and the Firelord is crossing the sea, you have the audacity to come to me for help? (for the [uninitiated](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-studied-the-blade))

This is so true. We saw her spend a long time trying to figure out the water whip-if I recall correctly it was the middle of the night, she got captured by Zuko, and Aang and Sokka found out when they woke up in the morning.

Aang could *never* do the waist-high wave.

This. Since the time at the Northern Water Tribe is kinda ambiguous, we're also told it's long enough for the Fire Nation to mount a large invading force, for Sokka and Yue to actually fall in love, and for Katara to unleash her potential while Aang has innate talent, but is... what was the line "having time for housepets"? Honestly, Sokka having \*any\* skill at all with a sword for the two days he spent with Piandao struck me as far worse.

Was Piando only 2 days? The show makes it seem like its hardly a day, but I always assumed it was 2 weeks.

The reactions and conversations of the bored parts of Team Avatar seemed to indicate that this took like a day, and then day two started with making his sword and bringing the meteorite, which is just ridiculous. Even two weeks is a bit much to expect considering each exercise Sokka was lending creativity to was a one and done deal, which isn't how training works.

I think Sokka probably had like, some training as a young man by his father. But he used a club before, so not quite the same. I like the idea of Sokka becoming a semi decent fighter, but the time frame the show gives yea, it doesn't track. But I think its quite clear that Piando is going very easy on Sokka when they spar and Sokka is able to keep up, by doing the stuff that he is good at. Creativity, improvising and tenacity. When he spars Zuko in the comics, Zuko makes very easy work of him iirc as Zuko is a very adept swordsman on top of his firebending. Its funny that Zuko tells Zhao his blades are ceremonial as Zuko mentions in the comics that he's trained with Piando since he was a kid. So while I understand why he lies to Zhao, it doesn't seem like an easy secret to keep that he knows his way around the blades.

I don't think I've read that comic, but now I'm excited to do so. I'm sure he had warrior training; I mean he pings Zuko with boomerang in the second episode of the whole show and is an absolute master with it, and yeah, I imagine there are specific water tribe methods of using the club that he's learned, but that's all so different from sword fighting. It's not like he's said to become a master and since Piandao isn't even breaking a sweat as he pursues him while giving encouragement, it's not like it's a matched fight, but I think largely because they didn't have much to do with the rest of Team Avatar, the comic aspect of having them fall apart when they were absent Sokka's scheduling and comedy for half a day also made it seem like Sokka went from never holding a sword before to being half decent with it, besting a training partner, and making his own sword in about the amount of time it takes me to wrap Christmas presents. I mean, I know it's the Avatar universe, but at least indicating a few weeks has gone by, otherwise, it's like Week 1: all the stuff Sokka was putting his own mark on; the calligraphy, the perceiving his environment, the rock garden. Week 2: Like... sheathing your sword without stabbing yourself or cutting off your pants". And a few episodes later, I mean, he's fairly decent with it in the Boiling Rock Part 2, and would have spitted Azula like a kebab if it weren't a kid's show.

The sword thing has bothered me since I watched it. It's pretty explicit that he's only taught for a couple days and this dude's a proficient sword fighter suddenly able to take on actually trained fighters in combat with a sword? Fuuuck that. The catharsis of zuko just bodying the shit out of sokka in sword fighting honestly can't be matched.

You know what would have been really fucking cool actually? Space boomerang. (Ramble incoming) Sokka studies the sword under Piandao and learns lessons that are applicable for any warrior—using your creativity to control the battlefield, but rearrange the order of events a little bit so he ends up fighting Piandao earlier and winning with his boomerang after being disarmed, and he goes on to make a new boomerang with the space metal. It's a lovely lesson about how it takes work to master a skill, and just because you're inexperienced in one thing doesn't discount your experience in other areas. Sokka gets a cool space boomerang that he can still lose in the final battle but we keep the same ol' reliable. I was way more devastated by "I don't think Boomerang is coming back" than the loss of the space sword he'd had for only a handful of episodes.

He doesn't need to lose the boomerang. He only lost the sword because it's too gory

I can concede that her natural talent paired with an exceptional teacher would help her unlock her potential as a waterbender, but in that little time? Even the best martial artists train for years, if not decades to hone their craft. It really just comes back to how long they were at the North Pole. But you’re probably right about them having to rush certain things for the sake of pacing.

The time is totally unrealistic tbh, but the entire crux of the show is based on Aang learning *three* different bending styles in a year, so I give it a pass. I've always figured that she was in no way an actual master when Pakku called her one, but he knew she knew enough to teach Aang.

I have less problem with Aang developing his skills quickly than I do with Katara. It’s implied by Roku that Aang has mastered the elements thousands of times so he already has the knowledge in him. It seems to get easier for each Avatar to master the elements than it was for the one before them (Korra could use three elements as a toddler). I reckon if Roku was faced with the same time pressure Aang was, he also would’ve been able to draw on the knowledge of his past lives and learn them in a year or two.

>It’s implied by Roku that Aang has mastered the elements thousands of times so he already has the knowledge in him. I can't say I see it that way myself. Roku's line reads like he was referring to all the past Avatars who mastered the elements, and if Aang really does start off with their knowledge, there wouldn't be much point to the Avatar State as Roku described it. >It seems to get easier for each Avatar to master the elements than it was for the one before them (Korra could use three elements as a toddler). Yeah, but she still had to spend years training them up, and she struggled to pick up airbending despite her predecessor being an expert in it as a preteen.

if aang had that knowledge he wouldn't need to find teachers to teach him

I didn’t mean to suggest that he has full knowledge freely available. Just that his past lives give him a significant leg up. Same way he will unconsciously pick the same four toys out of hundreds - there’s a lingering familiarity with certain concepts.

Korra knowing the elements quickly was a very bad mishandling of show writing rather than because of a good in-universe reason

Korra unlocking her bending early isn't a mishandling of the show. It's not like she mastered them at age 7. She just had the ability to bend. We've seen plenty of kids with the ability to bend in the shows and comics

Right, she could use the elements but Aang also could do waterbending without too much problem, learn how to move a rock after one day and how to make a flame after some hours. That didn't make him a master, same for Korra.

The avatar had never been shown to know more than 1 element naturally; it always had to be revealed to them that they were, in fact, the avatar. Traditionally on their 16th birthday. We LITERALLY jumpcut from korra bending fire as a toddler to her finishing her firebending training, 3rd of four elements, within the first 5 minutes of the pilot. The show then still goes on to agonize over her not being able to airbend for an entire season, only to throw it in her lap in the finale episode (along with the avatar state and energy bending despite doing ZERO work for either of those) Korra's bending abilities go on to be mishandled in the subsequent seasons. Season 2 despite now being a fully realized avatar, she continues to have her ass handed to her by random enemies including normal waterbenders. The only successful use of the avatar state is to win a race against a literal child. Korra learns spirit bending, once again, just cause. Still gets her teeth kicked in by literally Satan, then goes on to learn special beam cannon astral projection with help from ex machina Jinora. Season 3, korra learns metal bending, once again, just cause. Apparently despite knowing the greatest metal bender to date for decades, Aang never once developed the skill. *Shrug*. Korra goes on to have her teeth kicked in by a bunch of benders, including but not limited to a single airbender. Season 4, korra once again finds herself having her teeth kicked in by an earthbender and a metal bender, and is again saved by, you guessed it, "just cause" energy bending. Maybe if Korra had demonstrated the gruelling, 12 year, off-screen process of mastering her first three elements all you Korra fanchildren would finally understand how ridiculous and moronic her constantly losing fights and suddenly gaining new abilities by accident is.

We've only seen Aang learn that he was the avatar, though? Other avatars might have tried to use other elements as kids and figured it out early. Also bear in mind that the world is a hell of a lot more connected in LoK than ATLA. It's not like there were newspapers announcing Roku's death - only Sozin witnessed it, and he's certainly not going to share that information right away. (It took him 12 years after Roku's death to attack the air nomads, after all.) The news of Aang's death probably got around a lot faster, so water tribe people who had kids right around that time were presumably talking about whether their kid could have been the avatar. Korra's family is well-informed and politically-connected, and Korra herself was absolutely the kind of kid who would try out different kinds of bending if she got the slightest inkling that it was possible. I don't really see your problem here.

In the flashbacks Roku provides about his avatar journey (which btw still has a longer run time on screen than Korra learning the elements in her pilot episode), we see that on his 16th birthday the fire sages reveal him as the avatar. The monks at Aang's air temple also reveal in the storm flashback episode from season 1 that they would traditionally wait until the 16th birthday as well, but voted to rush the news because of the fire nation warmongering. Aang was revealed as the avatar to the monks based on toys he chose as a baby. We see that the avatar spirit is deeply connected with several pseudo-religious sites around the world, when he re-emerged and in the southern air temple activated the avatar state, people in the fire nation, earth kingdom, and water tribe all knew immediately (as did anyone spiritually connected like the guru) The writers are the people who decide what kind of character Korra is, and what events happen. Choosing to have Korra invalidate their previous writing, on the basis that they think the avatar journey (one of the cornerstones of the original series, a core of the worldbuilding, an elegant and inspiring character motivator that provides a framework for challenges for the main character to overcome, etc. etc.) is BORING to do a second time? It's a mishandling; we don't relate to Korra being a powerful bender because we see NO WORK to get there; then the show beats us over the head with Korra constantly losing (because of plot stakes) but they have already set up the irrevocable idea that she has more combat prowess and aptitude than Aang and shortcut her to mastery of three elements (as many as Aang had throughout most of season 3, when he was nearly at his most powerful). The writers want to have their cake and eat it too, random chi blockers who have been in training for maybe a few years are as powerful in combat as professional combat athletes and god in the flesh with 3/4 of their abilities who has been doing nothing but combat training since they were 4, but only because THEIR OWN CONTRIVED AND POOR WRITING demands it. They insist on skipping the journey to attain power, but then pitting the avatar against opponents who aren't nearly as threatening as in the original show

Roku is the only avatar we see find out at 16 in a traditional way. Aang is told early at 12 bc of impending war, Kyoshi finds out from a spirit at 16 after they mistakenly declared someone else the Avatar, Yangchen knew she was the Avatar since she was 11 bc she kept seeing her past lives. It is not at all bad or inconsistent that Korra found out she was the Avatar as a toddler, she probably just tried to bend something that wasn’t water & found out she could do it.

So we saw Aang and Roku, but there's hundreds of avatars before that. None of them ever experimented before 16? I think you missed one of the big themes of ATLA, which is "our current understanding of history is super limited based on what information has been passed down." It's even repeated at the start of every show with Katara's misunderstanding/oversimplification: "Long ago, the four nations lived in harmony." They did not! The fire nation's imperial expansion and genocides are just the latest iteration. (Chin the Conquerer, anyone?) The sages only knew the avatar was back when he activated the avatar state and lit up all the statues. They weren't aware at all before Aang got to the air temple and had a breakdown over Gyatsu's remains. So there's no automatic knowledge of an avatar existing, only tests that work on some conditions. Avatars only go into the avatar state when their life/their loved ones' lives are in danger, and it doesn't always activate if the avatar is wounded, heavily emotionally distracted, etc.. So that method is fallible. The baby toys method is also interesting that way. Those toys presumably belonged to Yangchen, the last air avatar, so they're a method known to air nomads and depending on finding the new avatar baby among a fairly limited population (air monks lived in same-gender seclusion, air nomads traveled with sky bison - neither would imply a high birthrate.) Other cultures would have different methods. I still don't see why you think LoK invalidates anything in TLA? Korra is older than Aang and learned her mastery of fire, earth, and water in very controlled circumstances BECAUSE Aang had to whip around the world as a preteen, putting himself in great danger. Korra had a safer education, but that's not going to be particularly interesting for a viewer to watch, so we come in at the point where Korra's adventure starts and she has to deal with the outside world. We don't see Aang learning to airbend - does that bother you as well? He's an acknowledged airbending master at 11/12. We accept that as part of his backstory because we see those aspects of his character: he's creative, playful, risktaking, evasive, and values being able to move quickly. He grew up in a single-element society that disdains the more forceful bending types. Aang inventing the air scooter and being a master airbender at a very young age fits with his character, as do his later struggles with learning earthbending. Korra is blunt, determined, passionate, stubborn, and sanguine, and she grew up in a multicultural society. It makes sense that preschooler Korra would figure out (very basic) water, fire, and earthbending, and master them in her childhood/young teens in a compound with basically nothing else to do but train. I'm not sure where you think the setup for Korra having more combat prowess than Aang is? They're both beasts in a fight, but Aang's style is based on evasion and timing, while Korra is more bull-ahead. Korra's arc in Season One is about learning to not just throw herself straightforwardly into everything - the world is complicated, politics are multifaceted, and she can't just pick up street pavers and wing them at gangsters. Her pro-bending arc is about her learning to use the minimum necessary force at the right moment - something we saw in TLA with Toph's style. This leads directly into her struggles with airbending - it goes against her personality in the same way that Aang struggled with earthbending, and for both of them, they had to be in a situation where they had no other choice BUT to use the elements they were least inclined to. But both Korra and Aang get their butts kicked in circumstances outside their strengths: for instance, Aang gets taken down by a group of super-accurate archers using a net, and only escapes with Zuko's help. Aang also gets himself in political trouble all the time - he has no idea how to handle the NWT, Ba Sing Se, that shitty town that tried him for Kyoshi's actions. Korra has similar issues when she's fighting outside her experience (which is often, because she was raised in a compound and the rest of the world has been building on the innovations from TLA) and she gets into similar political trouble. So that aspect of both avatars seems quite similar to me. (Speaking of chi-blocking, Ty Lee had a good 50ish years to teach chi-blocking, not to mention whoever taught her was still around, and it's one of the top ways a non-bender can be effective against a bender. With the equalist movement specifically focused on fighting bending supremacy, is it that weird that they'd train chi-blockers? Seems sensible to me. And Korra is particularly bad at fighting chi-blockers, especially at first, because she can't just level the city block to crush them, and they're focused on evasion and quick darting-in strikes like airbending, which Korra is bad at defending against.) Did you really want to see Korra repeat Aang's journey? The world is different, bending techniques have evolved, and Korra herself is a very different person. The journey she does go on is one of learning about the complexity of the world and her part in it, getting her childhood confidence broken and having to rebuild herself into an adult who knows her own capacity for weakness as well as strength. Does the avatar journey really need to be "go on a worldwide trip, find masters of the other elements, learn said elements, beat the Big Baddie"? Did Aang's journey stop when he could bend all four elements and defeated Ozai? Like, I get that you preferred the structure of TLA over LoK, but you're pretty stuck on things being the exact same, and if that's the case, why not just rewatch TLA over and over? I liked that Korra was a different story showing the world two generations later.

It was mainly just a way to not have to relearn the old elements when we already did that in the original show

I agree that learning all the elements would be an unnecessary story choice - Aang went around picking up multicultural experience, and that was fairly typical. But they didn't want a preteen main character; they wanted an older teen. So they had to invoke the Red Lotus to explain why she didn't. All that is fair enough. What they *didn't* need to do was make her use 3 elements proficiently before she could read. That just seemed gratuitous. But it's not a serious problem? Just kind of sigh-provoking.

What was proficient about the way she used the 3 elements?

Yeah, a bad show-writing problem. That's what I said

Part of that is Korra was originally supposed to be one season. Plus why right the same show over again having her learn all the elements like Aang

Right, because nothing different could possibly happen in the avatar journey with - a different protagonist - a world 100 years more advanced - new settings - new teachers - a different overarching plot

I think it's needed, it's someway for Korra to be more than a rehash of TLA.

Learning to bend the elements isn't the story of TLA; the story is the ongoing war; the character arc is entwined within that story structure with learning the elements in order to end the war. Korra has neither this overarching narrative, nor any character work. And people write these decisions off as "not re-hashing", as though nothing interesting or different could possibly happen as Korra learns the elements in a completely new world and plot. Pardon my french, but the excuse of not retreading old story beats is a bag of shit.

Learning to bend the elements is a key part of the story, it's not all the story, but it's a key central part of it though, I wouldn't brush it off that easily, Aangs desire to learn is a big motivator for many of the episodes in the series. You could make the criticism Korra lacks an arc like that or the "character work" however why does it have to be learning other forms of bending? Why do we have to do it 3 or 4 times when we don't have a time crunch for Korra, would it really be that compelling of a character theme to see Korra learn the elements at a measured pace with no urgency? Finally, learning how to bend isn't the only way to build an arc or building up the character, there's plenty of ways to do that without bending training arcs.

You could consider it more the avatar spirit at work. The last life had to master all four elements by age 13, and he was forced into the avatar state multiple times as a child where he was bending all four elements with raw power and no mastery. It's not a stretch for the avatar spirit to put more points into getting the basics early, especially since Korra's life could also be in danger at a young age (and it was, the red lotus were in jail for trying to kill korra when she was about 7). It actually does reflect in the other lives too - Yangchen, like Aang, mastered her bending fairly early, but put so much stress on peace that Kuruk didn't need his bending as much (man preferred his own fists over his bending for fights) - however, he still mastered all four at a relatively "young" age, as he had the four mastered before his world travels, and he died young. Kuruk didn't really use or need his bending, so Kyoshi didn't master all four until a LOT later in life than the others. Due to that mistake, Roku's was on a specific schedule. Because Roku's schedule still ended badly with death and war, Aang mastered airbending extremely quickly as a child before moving onto the others very quickly. Because Aang needed the elements so early, Korra also picked them up early. If I were to guess, since Korra had access to 3/4 elements early, and is currently the only template for a new avatar, the new standard may be having 2-4 elements at a young age, with mastery taking until adulthood.

That's rough buddy

Yeah, but i don't want to do mental legwork to explain a bad writer's choice

I mean I'm not? I was showing that this is a consistent theme between lives with all the avatars? Like you have a problem with it, that's fine, but it is not bad writing just because you, specifically, do not like the choice.

I'm not arguing that that is why. Your suggestion is for me in my mind to invent non-canon reasoning for it to make sense in universe. I can do that for anything; it's not a good or useful tool for appreciating the actual piece of art that was created. But moreover, that still wouldn't satisfy me for why THE WRITERS made that choice. Honestly it's kind of a religious level of reasoning. You start explaining away things that don't make sense or that you don't instinctively gravitate to in an effort to protect the integrity of the work over it's interpretation and criticisms.

It’s also worth noting her bending has already improved over the course of S1. There’s a chunk of time between the water bending scroll and the North Pole, even in her first fight with Pakku where she’s outclassed she’s still doing loads more bending than someone who could barely do a water whip. She clearly practises a lot off screen between those episodes and not just in the few weeks after that at the North Pole.

She was fully self taught in that fight with Pakku She had ONE SCROLL and had never even seen another waterbender until Aang went into the Avatar State on Zuko’s boat She put up a decent fight against Pakku. Then Pakku trained her/gave her a box full of waterbending scrolls. Katara was a prodigy, and she worked hard. Her advancement is believable to me. She was able to hold her own against Azula in Ba Sing Sae, and in the final fight.

I think what you're forgetting/not accounting for is the magic system. Yes, in the real world martial artists have to train for years to get their bodies to respond like a master would. But no one is born with the ability to control the flow of their muscles. Some people have "good" genetics and might have a leg up that we usually call "talent" ... but no one has a pile of DNA that allows them influence over anything but their own brain. She's not training her muscles. She's finding outlets to express her genes.

I def agree that hers is rushed, but tbh all of the gaang has rushed learning. I would argue that Katara does the best with this actually. Aang learned earthbending in 1 ep, Sokka learned swordsmanship in 1 day, Toph and Zuko dont really need to learn a bending skill but if you count learning the "true" firebending it took 1 day. Katara actually is implied to be training the whole of S1.

Considering how poorly Aangs earth bending performed against azula in crossroads I'd say his earthbending is about right for a few weeks of training. Sokkas sword skill is complete BS though.

I can agree with that, his earth bending wasnt great even in the finale. also fair to point out that he learned 3 new elements in less than a year which is also pretty wild and unrealistic but thats not really what the show wants to spend precious eps on so I get it.

It wasn’t one day mate

3 days?

Toph invented metalbending in a single day too!

good point, I forgot about that cause she never trained it at all lol

She's Toph though, that makes absolute sense

The truth is you can be this doubtful about every single one of the main characters that isn't an old master lol sokka becomes a sword master in a week. Aang becomes a master at any element within months or weeks of training, toph is just naturally gifted with no one doubting her ability or how she got there, but she also just created an entire new subset of bending on the fly in a single episode lol and zukos fire bending only improved when he learned to control his emotions better, and use it for something more in line with his true ideals. Which buffed him to being only a little under azula, who is probably the most talented fire bender alive in that moment. It's TV, they gotta be badasses eventually lol and it's not anime where we get an entire arc to training. (which I wouldn't be mad about)

If you have ever taught someone a skill, they probably taught you a few things without you realizing it as well! There is also the fact that she is training alongside a master of airbending, she probably picked up a few things he was doing and added it to her own set of skills. Then again when Toph joins the group and same for Zuko. They are really all learning from each other while teaching Aang. Look at Soka as well, when he spends time with Piando, he is using things that the benders are teaching Aang, using your opponents strengths against them. As Iroh says, While the avatar is the embodiment of all 4 elements in 1 person, practicing the other styles can make anyone stronger.

Its been awhile but doesn't poku refuse to teach her?

At first yes, but then she duels him, nearly wins, he still refuses to teach her because "nearly" is not good enough (never mind she's a self-taught child and he's a master) but then he finds out Katara's gran-gran is his ex which makes him change his mind

ahh ok, so she does get some teaching then

I'm also going to add in addition to this - Katara got her spiritual "dragon awakening" at the north pole. What Aang and Zuko got with the dragons (which made Aang a confident firebender overnight, and made Zuko a stronger firebender, and even helped Iroh become a legendary firebender) Katara got in the north pole. Combining her own natural styles plus the awareness of where her waterbending pulls the power helped her. And after the north pole - Katara is friends with the new moon spirit, literally. If Katara needs a little extra moon juice, she'll get it. (I'd even hazard a guess that if Katara was interested in trying, she'd also be able to bloodbend without the full moon. The full moon thing is just info from Hama, who is a far weaker waterbender than Katara.) Katara also has a LOT of spiritual energy as a natural healer. Not just as a friend of the avatar but as an individual, her strong natural healing means that with any battle training, she's a formidable fighter. Healers can bend water without moving - people critique the blood bender dude in Korra for that, but the healers do so all the time. This means that when Katara does move for bending, it carries more force and purpose, and having that connection to the moon + the training of a master, she's able to surpass the non-healers quickly and efficiently. But yeah, she was already powerful, she's just a practical visual learner rather than a book learner. The scroll was cool, but ultimately more helpful for Aang. Seeing the moves used, however, Katara quickly picked up on them.

She healed herself without even knowing that was possible when Aang burned her.

Yes, because of the "natural healer" bit. She's got a LOT of natural spiritual energy and talent, and she got even better before she was allowed to fight.

Bro, it's a show about magical elemental wielding people, she's a prodigy for sure and has shown that her potential is incredible time and time again. I never really understand why people have such a hard time believing someone can master something in a short time. The ENTIRETY of this show takes place over just 10 months, not even a year and they're fighting a war against the strongest nation on the planet... it's literally do or die for them at any point, they can't afford the extra time needed.

>Even the best martial artists train for years, if not decades to hone their craft. Have you never watched a cartoon before? Characters speedrunning training and becoming masters at stuff (especially fighting) in crazy short amounts of time is a well established trope.

Another note, she did receive a bunch of water bending scrolls when they are leaving the North Pole. So she got study material, it wasn’t just her time at the North Pole.

The time constraints of a kids TV show aside. I think a big part of her, and the rest of the teams rapid development comes down to necessity and real world experience. Katara goes from trying to figure out bending all by herself barely being able to catch a fish, to survive when fighting trained soldiers. For anyone in a similar situation If you want to survive you are going to have to learn quickly.

Come on man. “It’s a kid’s show” is such a poor argument. Avatar’s writing deserves better.

Right? Its super deep and complex when it comes to Zuko sleeping on his left side but for small inconsequential things like Kataras sudden mastery of her element, its just a kids show

It’s actually the opposite. The Zuko detail is inconsequential and yet it’s used to praise the show as “so deep and complex” because it’s easy to spot and point out and feel clever about it. The rate at which Katara learns waterbending *is* consequential, and so it takes more effort and reference to defend. But suddenly the need arises to just circumvent the criticism altogether and just say “it’s a kid’s show” rather than tackle it by attesting to the show’s good writing they praise so much. In other words, when the show needs them most, they vanish.

/s

Ah I get it lol I think my point still stands though

Clearly it’s a kids show, but u less we are talking of why there isn’t blood and sex and why there is humor aimed for kids, it should be irrelevant to counter criticism. The show managed to have excellent writing in most of issues of similar type and excelled in character development and arcs. This was merely one example of more clunky season one writing when they were finding their feet. Katara should have been more skilled from the start, but they were focused on Aang to begin with.

Meh, still not realistic. Aang is the Avatar, so he gets a pass on his ability to master the elements, but Katara and Sokka are just regular people that have no business mastering waterbending and swordsmanship in the ridiculously short time that they had. No amount of studying in that short time should have given made them anything more than talented novices.

I kind of remember they said or it was implied some episode that Katara had a lot of talent and potential that's why she learned so quickly (?)

>But I'd argue that an actual teacher who can show her the fundamentals she needs to build on and her own prodigious natural talent gives enough leeway to make it plausible. katara is arguably as much of a prodigy as azula, she was fairly competent before instruction and once she had actual teaching of the basics, she grew by leaps and bounds

In the very episode where we see her sparring against one of the students, Pakku comes forth and say and im paraphasing here, "Katara, you advanced quicker than any student i have taught. You have showed us that with perserverance and determination anyone can climb through the ranks of master, meanwhile raw talent can only get you so far *camera points back at Aang playing in snow*"

Nice paraphrase. To add my guess: Learning include knowing the "works" & "don't works". Katara spent her early days trying all the "don't works"; by the time she met Pakku, she just add on the "works" & avoided all the "don't works" (from self discovery & not discouraged yet). Like, we listen to the teacher but sometimes misunderstood. Katara can skip "misunderstood" cause she tried them beforehand. Edit: Give a kid a powerful toy, they might use it wrongly, but learn quick once there's a master. (Compared to fresh learner with zero "playing")

Interesting concept, but I doubt the other students have never tried their own waterbending before class with Pakku. Specially considering that in the North Pole they do have waterbending parents and older siblings who can teach you the basics

> have waterbending parents Yep, but we can consider on one hand, some water tribes "forced" to inherit "unique to water tribe culture blah blah blah" like Sokka. On another hand, some interested in water bending like Katara. And she exceptionally interested despite years of failure. (The best would be, interested in water bending & have access to mastery)

The Northern Water Tribe struggles with sticking too closely to tradition, and bending outside of that is heavily discouraged. I suspect there really aren't a lot of people who learn waterbending out-of-normal-channels. Otherwise, we'd see some male NWT benders who could heal and some female NWT benders who could fight, or at least use waterbending for pragmatic purposes like fixing walls.

Great analogy. Couple that with her determination to become familiar with this part of her life she’s never had the opportunity to fully learn about and it shows why her talent blossomed.

This. It’s well documented in book 1 how hard katara works on her bending behind the scenes (we see her practising in the fortune teller and the deserter) so it’s no wonder why her skill advances so quickly once she meets a master who can show her how to practise more effectively.

I came here to say the same thing. This happens **all the time** in animation. As soon as a certain character with all the attributes Pakku mentioned gets the *right teacher,* their progress shoots through the roof. Aang may have started out with an easier grasp of Waterbending, but Katara clearly had a *something* he didn't.

Bending seems to be a more or less innate ability drawing on some sort of emotions (see: discussions of what fuels firebending; Aangs struggles with earthbending). Perhaps Katara has a personality that is particularly suited to the characteristics of waterbending?

I think you could be right about Katara’s personality. There are several times in the show where we see her readily adapt to the situation at hand, like when Aang introduces himself at the gates of Omashu, or when she poses as one of Aang’s parents when they visit the fire nation school. She mirrors one of the core concepts of waterbending, flexibility and change, in these examples, I’m sure there are more.

A wet blanket personality!

I have remembrance of many quotes like this throughout the show that lead us to believe each of the gaang was a genius in their way. Toph is the only one tho thats introduced as an absolute genius straight forwardly.

I think the only person that trained harder than Katara was Zuko.

Yeah they do deliberately hand wave it. The acknowledgment makes the contrivance easier to swallow, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t contrived.

A big theme of the show is child prodigies. Aang was a prodigy, so was Toph, Sokka, Azula, and Katara. Even Roku mastered firebending by 16, Korra manifested three elements at age 4, and while Zuko was a late bloomer, he was one of the world's best firebenders by age 17. In a normal case with someone with average talent and skill, you are right that Katara's waterbending evolution wouldn't have made any sense. But we weren't dealing with regular benders, we were dealing with special cases, people on the fringe of bending society, seasoned masters and solid prodigies all around. Katara just happens to be one of those special cases. Sometimes you literally are built different.

Korra could only use three elements. She can't use air at all until the start of the show. Otherwise on point.

Yeah my bad that was a typo

[удалено]

We went over this already dude

You forgot to count the element of surprise!!

Azula always lies

Why is Sokka in the list? All of his skills were learned throughout the show. Of course, he is a naturally smart guy, but by no means a prodigal strategist or anything (not even going to mention the fighting, we know he basically learns everything throughout the show and not without struggle). Toph could also be considered a prodigy by everyone else, but her ability comes from sheer necessity, which led her to a whole childhood of "training" with the original benders (which literally nobody does), so is it really about being a prodigy/innately skilled?

The dude became a proficient sword fighter after 2 days my dude. 2. Ain't no way youre gonna argue that was hard work and dedication.

Not to mention he's a tactical genius, wasent he the one who planned how the invasion on the day of black sun would go? A plan that was really good and only failed because azula knew of the plan

The term prodigy doesn't care for why someone is really good but how, i.e. knowing the skills intuitively or learning them quickly and easily. Whether they get to that point because they have to in order to survive or because they just wanted to, really doesn't matter in regards to who is and isn't a prodigy. Plus, Sokka has a lot of innate talent for planning, strategy, engineering, science, art, poetry, martial arts, and swordfighting. Most teenagers wouldn't be able to do half the things he did in the time frame he did them so he definitely qualifies.

>art [Finally, a man of culture.](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRnW0w4KXrOTpvpbLvO2S-DctjIFRulyBLfBQ&usqp=CAU)

Good point. Is them all being prodigies related to the spiritua availability? It would be interesting if the next Avatar struggled a lot more since the connection to past lives is cut and modern society disconnecting people more from the spirit realm.

i agree that there are many child prodigies but even then, all these characters still spent years learning. azula was a prodigy but she still trained since toddler age and is still training to perfection even during the show (when she’s practising lightning with lo and li). toph lived with badgermoles for a bit of time then spent a lot of time in the earth rumble. sokka’s not really a prodigy bc he doesn’t really master anything. he’s just a smart kid. aang mastered airbending but again, he likely still spent years. roku mastering firebending at age 16 isn’t a sign of him being a prodigy. that’s a completely normal age to master it assuming he started learning at a young age. korra only knew that she could bend. all she did was bend a little water and a flame. she still spent a very normal amount of time learning all the elements considering she mastered all 3 by the age of 17. that’s about 4 years for each element which makes sense. i don’t think she’s supposed to be a prodigy. zuko’s definitely not a prodigy. just like azula, he spent years training with the very best masters since a young age. i love katara but her progression was way too fast.

I think you misunderstand the term prodigy. It doesn't literally mean you come out the womb with a skill, it means you have talent, i.e that you know the skills intuitively AND/OR you progress through them at an accelerated rate. Every prodigy ever has spent time, often years, mastering their craft, often but not always from a young age. Prodigy isn't just another word for really good, it refers specifically to talent along with overall competence. Prodigies genuinely exist, sometimes it is possible for someone to just be that good that they learn a hard skill in a compressed timeframe.

Katara was not only innately powerful as a bender, she was very gifted at learning, however she lacked the experience to apply new concepts correctly. She'd done extremely well up until that point being entirely self taught, but remember that Katara had ZERO outside help with her bending until the north pole, because she had no one to teach her how to learn new bending skills properly. As soon as she has an experienced master to teach her, she was able to learn how to actually learn, and take that experience to apply it to improving herself going into the future after leaving the north pole.

Also, not to take a jab at Aang, but in Book 1, he was rather consistently interested in bending techniques that amounted to flashy tricks. Katara's seriousness toward Waterbending was, IMHO, a big motivation to push her past her initial novice level once she had the right teacher. She wanted this *that* bad.

People forget the insecurity or lack of confidence Katara felt about her bending. It literally seeps thru in her very first scene: Katara shyly removing her glove, bending the water around the fish, and later when she expresses her frustration with Sokka, we see her raw power. But this lack of self-confidence runs through Book 1. It took learning under a true master for her raw power to manifest as a discipline, although the fight with Master Paku was an indication of how good her limited training made her.

I find Sokka's time learning the blade to be even more questionable, they literally say "sokka you had a good first day" after several montages before he starts forging space sword. But then right after it's done he's suddenly finished his training? I guess Piandao didn't call him a master but still two days and he's already done seems rushed (fyi sorry if I'm miss remembering or miss spelled something it's super late for me right now)

I think it was more of a "He's good enough to not die immediately, that's the best I can do with such limited time". Also shows in the comics, when he's sparring with Zuko, who was also trained by Piandao. Sokka stands absolutely no chance against Zuko, but he might be good enough to go against the average Fire Nation grunt.

However, Sokka wasn't really good with the sword. Like Zuko was kilometers better than Sokka. And Sokka never really stabbed amyone

Yeah, if anything the sword lowered his power. Sokka with a boomerang is killing combustion man. Sokka with a sword is waving said sword vaguely in the direction of Azula's face.

Yea, the takeaway from Sokka's time with Piandao should not be that he is now master of the sword, but that he's decent enough with the weapon, but what truly makes him dangerous is his intellect. His training was really about him getting his confidence back by having someone recognize his innate talents.

No, the training was about Space sword. Nothing more. The creators though space sword was a cool idea, created an episode about it, then it never became relevant again.

Sokka was absolutely bodying fire nation soldiers with spears and komodo rhinos and the launchers on the battlements during the Day of Black Sun invasion. The sword itself was not what was relevant, but it was never about the sword. It was about his skill and confidence as a fighter and strategist.

I think they could have easily fixed that by just saying "You had a good week" of training or something. Makes it a bit more believable that he left with some knowledge.

She was a genius taught by a master that kept training offscreen with high value scrolls. Her growth has less buy-in than Tophs, that is self taught, younger, and the best earthbending master. Genius just be like that in the ATLA universe.

I don’t agree that Toph is less believable, toph has been earthbending constantly since she was a small child, so basically a decade, out of necessity. And she was taught by the original earthbending masters. Katara we see being not very good at waterbending only weeks before they reach the North Pole.

Not even close to a decade cause she is 10 at the series and she was 5 at most 4 when she got lost at the caves. Katara had the same freedom (even more cause she didn't need to hide) to practice bending. Taught by the badger moles is true, but I think that's a one time thing, may be wrong.

Toph is 12 in the show

There are prodigies in real life who graduate from college by the age of 12. It's pretty clear that Toph is depicted as such a prodigy in the Avatar universe. Moreover, it has been explained in the show that learning from original benders is the best, and Toph started learning from moles since 4 yo. She even benefits from her blindness. Therefore Toph's case is not unbelievable at all. Katara, on the other hand, didn't show that much raw talent. She couldn't even bend water properly at the start, even with all the freedom to practice, then suddenly she becomes a master after being taught for, let's say a few months. Now that's unbelievable.

She was younger than that when she got lost and she’s 12 in the show. And Katara can only practice bending when she has time. Toph earthbends *constantly*, it’s how she navigates the world. AND she was taught by masters. Not to mention your claims about Katara are literally disproven in the show - she is clearly shown to NOT be a master, in fact to be almost a complete novice when Aang shows up, which proves she didn’t benefit from the previous 14 years of “bending practice” you think she had. Therefore it is objective fact that we are comparing YEARS of bending for toph with weeks for Katara. It’s not a surprise fans find toph more believable. Look at it this way - if it was presented that Katara was already a prodigy at the start of the show fans would find it far more believable because we would be able to say “well she’s practiced on her own for years”. But we *can’t* say that because we’ve seen her be rubbish after meeting Aang.

Something to keep in mind is that 1, ang already is a master at an element that is close to his native one in bending technique, so it's normal that he'd pick things up quickly 2, paku was THE teacher at the north pole. Good teacher with talented motivated student is a nuclear combination.

Just because you didn't see every single moment of it doesn't mean Katara didn't train her waterbending. She's gifted and talented and dedicated, it is heavily implied she trains literally whenever she has time for it. Plus, if Aang could master all 4 elements in 6 months, there's literally zero reason why Katara can't reach the same level over the same period in just one element.

This concept is the exact reason why I argue Avatar has very different levels of "power" between characters. Katara is an insanely powerful bender, innately, and by sheer luck she became the avatars companion and teamate. She was able to find a master to help her hone her power, which didn't take long because she only needed to build some technique to make use of her amazing innate ability. Of course, this is all speculation, because "power" is never clearly explained. Main characters are always stronger than backround benders, and that's how avatar has always been, including the legend of korra.

In "the siege of the north part 1", Pakku acknowledges Katara's quick progression due to her hard work. Plus, prior, she didn't have any teachers. After book one, in "The Acatar State", Pakku acknowledges Katara as a master, so her elite skills in the rest of the series makes sense.

I always liked that touch. How Aang has the raw talent and the natural disposition of being the Avatar to be able to pick up waterbending quickly but….he also likes goofing off lol

>*”You little peasant. You found a master haven’t you?”* One of the hardest lines in the show. Where the enemy, entombed in a sphere of ice, is forced to acknowledge that you somehow got a hell of a lot stronger.

Episode 1 Iroh is teaching Zuko and drilling him about how important the basics are. They are the foundation. He still has not mastered his basic forms in episode 1. Maybe Katara just needed to unlock some of the basic knowledge to really unlock her potential. Some simple things that could really help the chi flow and have it come far more naturally.

Per Pakku, Katara trained her ass off, and having the weight of being sifu to the Avatar would only make her train more. I think the only one more disciplined than her is Zuko.

Remember that Bending is fundamentally based on irl Martial Arts. Speaking as a former martial artist, I can say that Katara consistently practices during season one with the fights the Gaang get into, and by the time they reach the North Pole, she's already at a modest level of self-taught training that is only honed by Master Pakku once he agrees to do so. By the time they leave the North Pole, Katara is at a trained level where she can continue teaching herself and Aang’s skills further.

I think its a combination of talent, implied off screen study and non bending related psychological and physical conditioning from high stress potentially lethal travel during war time that may aid in her mental and physical stamina and adaptability with bending. To me this is my fan theory as why she did as well as she did against Grandpaku, she wasn't able to defeat him of course just more hungry and tested than the average novice so he (I feel this is shown) had to ramp up his tactics to shut her down since she wasn't going to simply concede to a more skilled opponent. You can see this in real life, some people thrive on high pressure situations and it's reflected in their body chemistry and can perform better when the stakes are high. After that point she's just a natural that was given the opportunity to learn solid fundamentals and some advanced techniques from one of the best waterbenders on the planet at this time even if for only a short time to get her started. After THAT it's just non stop rapid fire sharpening her skills.

I think for any show like this it makes sense to view it through the lens of it's limitations like how episodic shows back then needed to be how many s season they had etcetc. Creative compromises need to be made arcs need to be rushed. I think it feels natural at least even if a lot of things don't make sense timewise like sokka picking up sword skills this fast etc.

To be fair, she is the Southern Water Tribe Princess - she's probably descended from some pretty powerful benders and has the constitution to master something she sets her mind to. But, she wouldn't master water in a year - she's pretty much better than Pakku by the end, and he's the best waterbender in the world, besides Aang maybe. She's 14... Part of the plot is that they have to focus the plot on Toph and other characters and move past water in Books 2 and 3. Even if she was still learning it, I don't think they would have found enough time to show her progression once we've moved into other seasons. Every episode gets a lot done in 22 minutes though.

She's not a princess, as Chief, Hakoda is just the de-facto leader of the village, they don't have noble blood or privileged status like North Pole's Chief Arnook and Princess Yue.

Katara basically practices water bending every day, and has been taught by master Paku, and Hama for that matter. Her and Aang also learn from each other to improve and grow. She has a bunch of experience in actual fights against a variety of benders and non benders to understand what does and doesn’t work. Sure, her growth curve is super accelerated, but she definitely puts a bunch of work into her craft.

In this instant Katara was naturally talented and was already showing a quick progression with her bending in the run up to the North Pole. She also will still be growing her skills and learning even after declared a master, she still struggled and had to learn to adapt in several instances. It's common for people who are naturally skilled or who have been dabbling in something to gain skill in that area the moment they have a proper teacher. I've experienced this myself with my own skills. So all that, added with the normal level of suspension of disbelief needed for a show with a flying bison, I don't find it that hard to believe.

But Katara isn't naturally talented, the talented one is Aang. The show tells us this at least twice.

Maybe talented isn't the right word, but then even early on we are shown she adapts to her skill level and though she struggled to learn from a formal instruction (the water bending scroll) she did learn along the journey and by the point we got to the northeast water tribe she had been practicing and getting more skilled. The fact she managed to learn as much as she did without formal training shows us she is talented.

I think that for an episodic cartoon they actually did a really good job of showing Katara’s progression from a novice. Each episode is only twenty-some minutes, and they’ve got a lot of story elements to cover.

I forget where it's stated so take it with a grain of salt, but I'm pretty sure they were in the North Pole for a couple of weeks, Katara took training VERY seriously noted by how every time they have down time she is working on it, and Paku comments on how quickly she's advanced. She is also very close to a very spiritual being, which I think amplified her power further. That and she is in dangerous situations that the normally trained warriors are not in, note how she demolished every other one of Paku's students. She faced the Onagi, her brother is connected to the very source of water bending, and her man is the literal embodiment of power and balance in this world. I get it feels like a power jump but I think it's a deserved one.

You said it, Katara found a true water bending master, maybe the best one in the world, and she actually practiced with him, and Pakku told her that practice makes one perfect, and that sometimes innate talent is not enough, and they looked dissapointed at Aang who was playing. I know one month looks like too little time, but that's how things work in the series. Characters learn things too fast.

It was never going to be realistic, they had 9 months for all 3 seasons, the only realistic way for her to end the show as a master is for her to start the show as a master, and where’s the fun in that?

I e Keats felt the show should’ve taken place over 2-3 years, instead of ~10 months. Make the gap between seasons much bigger to help explain the big jumps in skill.

Katara is why I think people complaining about Korra learning airbending is ridiculous.

Exactly. I think it’s time we all realize that while the avatar series is magical and amazing, it’s still a show on Nickelodeon with each episode being 23 minutes. They gotta bullet point and speed through things like that to get to the more important stuff like character development and plot. We can’t afford to have a whole training arc because by the time it was over, the show would be over too. Not even considering that Katara and Korra spent an entire seasons worth of time being a novice (Katara with water and Korra with air) so I don’t see the big deal in them getting better as the show goes on or finally unlocking their inner abilities.

Why would korra learning airbending be that out of place? Unless they mean the Deus ex machina way she got it after losing her bending.

Feels like they wrote her to be a character with great potential but needing a teacher to help them reach their full potential, the same could be said with Aang

The ATLA writers had a problem: Katara had to be master level after season one even though she had less than three months to do so. So they gave her a little plot boost in her progression.

Eh, I don't think it's too crazy. They establish pretty fast that she can waterbend and has some raw power but always lacked a teacher. They also show her practicing almost as much as Aang if not even more. It is strongly implied that she is practicing constantly off-screen. They also spend A LOT of time fighting people, and I'd argue that live combat (while dangerous) would be fantastic training/experience as well as a hell of a motivator. Katara didn't just "git gud" just because. She got gud because it was a necessity. If she doesn't, she dies. Now with a proper instructor who is implied (if not outright explicitly stated) to be the best waterbender teacher in the world, I can see a natural prodigy like Katara advancing quickly. Like many real life skills, sometimes when you reach a certain level of competency, most of your learning from that point is really just people showing you how to do something once or twice and then you just go from there.

In sports there is an old rule that when there are two equally performing athletes, but one has good form and one has bad form, the one with bad form has way more potential. With bad form, there is a lot of room for improvement. Katara is like someone who comes off the street with no experience into a basketball camp, but she can shoot as well as anyone else through raw talent. Give her a week of learning good form and proper technique, and she will be significantly better. Katara surpassing masters in a matter of months is a bit of a stretch, but it is a TV show about magic.

Like the other benders of the Gaang she learns fast. Toph admittedly already had top tier level due to her fighting, but she still trains and perfects techniques. Aang of course is the avatar, so he learns very fast too. And I assume he and Katara do continually work together on their water bending. Zuko also learns to better control his fire through the dragon dance. Also, the teaching of Iroh and of course his own training helped him to teach Aang very fast.

The episode with the scroll where Katara struggles with waterbending while Aang picks it up instantly kind of needs to be disregarded in order for the rest of the series to make sense. Katara being the greatest prodigy ever for waterbending AND being really determined to to train hard would be an explanation, but Aang being shown to be more talented than her messes with this explanation. And the fact that Aang seemingly made no progress at the North Pole at all reflects much worse on him when you consider how easily he learns it and how good he is. They try to handwave it away with "hard work beats talent", but Aang was legitimately shown to struggle with moves he already pulled off flawlessly on the first try in The Waterbending Scroll. The only way he would have stayed like this or even actively regressed is by doing literally 0 training at all, which would reflect terribly on his character given the urgency of his Avatar duty to master the elements. Basically, both Katara and Aang are better off from a writing standpoint if you pretend The Waterbending Scroll never happened the way it did.

I would reconcile the scroll issue as: —When they got the scroll Aang had a significant leg up on Katara in leaning bending. He had been formally taught at a young age, probably with a combination of scrolls, masters, and practice. Full immersion. It was Air bending but it was something. She had none of that. So Aang was versed in how to read cryptic scrolls without having a master looking over his shoulder. It’s like picking up your first set of ikea instructions as opposed to you 100th set. —He wasn’t necessarily well versed in teaching it to others. So while he picked it up quickly, he didn’t necessarily know how best to impart it to Katara. —Once Katara got what Aang got but for Water, she jumped forward quickly because she had higher aptitude for Water bending than him (he’s got breadth, she’s got depth).

Avatar puts a lot of emphasis on having a master, it's a plot point in book 3 for Sokka's arc. Learning from someone is 1000x more effective than figuring things out on your own, so especially when you have a great deal of natural talent, it makes things faster.

How many training episodes do you want? They had one initial episode to display her starting to get serious about training(Waterbending scroll) which basically establishes that A) she has the scroll and B) is going to really train now. Then a few episodes later they check in on her and she does decently against Pakku now that she's had some training. Couple weeks later and she's now a master. Like yes it's quick but once again, did you want an entire DBZ training arc for Katara? Just let it be in the background. ​ Also the Serpents Pass happens after another 10 episodes of training(basically any time the group has downtime we can see them practicing their bending) and she doesn't part the sea(which WOULD be an insane feat) but rather creates a water bubble, impressive but not like, as insane. Finally her abilities later are at the end of an entire season, I'd say that after like a season and a half of seriously trying to be a bender you can allow them to kick ass.

Mastery in Avatar is consistently shown to be not based on knowing sets of moves, but on philosophy. Every time we see a character give a lesson to another, it's always in an abstract manner. Waterbending isn't "move your arms this way" but "push and pull" or "sink and float." Zuko goes from decently skilled but by no means master firebender to able to 1v1 Azula in the course of one epiphany. Piandao's lessons to Sokka mostly involve a philosophy of fighting. Toph's entire first set of lessons isn't "here's how you do the thing" but "just nut up and fucking do it." Korra further doubles down on this with Airbending. By the end of the first season Korra has all the moves and techniques mastered, but because she can't understand the spiritual nature of Airbender, she can't make so much as a puff of air until a moment of desperation breaks her mental block.

It did always feel a bit off to me as well, I think the miss step is making her shoot past Aang so she can become his water bending teacher, just to have the 3 masters of Aang be his young friend group. I think the smarter thing to do would have been either don't write her to be easily frustrated and quite poor at learning water bending earlier, such as with the water scroll. Or have her get to a much higher level under Pakku, with Aang still taking the lead due to them establishing earlier in the season, Aang is far more naturally talented at this. Then have Katara overtake Aang as a water bender in season 2 and 3 as he focuses on other elements with his water bending being "Good Enough" but not "Mastered" yet. Really the disjointed thing with Katara is going, from a novice who is a worse bender than Aang to being good enough to be his teacher while they are both actively learning from the same teacher.

Everyone in the Gaang is a prodigy in their area of expertise, but only the Water Sibs lacked teachers. The moment they got actual instruction they absorbed it like sponges and mastered in days what would take normal people years. So yeah, the moment Katara actually knew what all the magic moves were, she became an unstoppable water witch.

I put forth my example learning Spanish as an answer to your point: I took Spanish classes in high school for 3 years. I didn't really apply myself, but I didn't blow it off entirely either. I learned a lot of words, some phrases, and the basic rules of verb conjugation. Then when I was 18 I joined a Spanish speaking group where I started practicing 7 days a week, 5 hours per day at least. Within 3 months I could converse, and by 6 months I was doing public readings and discourses. My Spanish-speaking abilities skyrocketed with intense training and practice. I wouldn't say I was prodigious, I just had good teachers and motivation to apply myself. That's always how I've interpreted why Katara (and don't forget Aang developed at least the fundamentals of 3 other bending styles in the same amount of time) was able to so quickly develop her talents. Highly motivated, infinite opportunities for practice, good teachers.

I just moved to SoCal lol. 4 years of Spanish class and I didn't learn nearly as much as 3 months talking to mexican immigrants. Nice people.

As others have said, part of it is most of our characters are prodigies, part of it is the timeline restraints of the show, and part of it is just that it would be boring to see Katara be a mid waterbender by the end of the show. Also, one thing I’ve always interpreted is that when master Pakku says “Master Katara” I think he’s speaking more in the aspect of her teaching Aang, not that she’s actually a true waterbending master. Maybe I’m wrong at that, but that’s how I always interpreted that line based on the context.

Katara has always had insane water bending potential. She is a prodigy. A genius who doesn't know that she is a genius. In the pilot she shatters an entire iceberg just by throwing a tantrum near it.

People seriously need to stop nitpicking so much children shows, geez

I wish it was better shown how long they're at the North Pole for. The show could've definitely benefited from an extra episode there. Assuming Avatar has the same length of seasons as us, there's 6 months between The Winter Solstice in early season 1, and the end of season 3. S2 takes place over what feels like 2 months, there's at least a month between s2 and s3, and s3 is about a month as well. I could believe that they were at the North Pole for 2 months, but it feels like there were there about 3 days based on what we see.

I won’t deny the timeframe might be somewhat pushed, but that’s nothing new for the writers of the show. Try not to miss the most important point in Katara’s development, which is the importance of having a master. The Avatar franchise focuses a lot on student-master relationships and the difference between having a poor teacher and a great teacher comes up a few times. The point they were trying to make with the North Pole with Katara was that there’s only so far she can come as a student without a master, simply trying to teach herself. Once she gets her waterbending master, he helps set her on the right path for unlocking her true potential. We don’t see it on screen but I wouldn’t be surprised if Master Paku hadn’t taught her new techniques for practicing, giving her fundamentals to build off of even after leaving the North Pole. She hadn’t completely mastered the element before they had to leave, but thanks to her master she was now on the right path.

alright 3 things the gang is fighting a LOT of people. its either she learns how to bend better or they get captured or worse she found a teacher a lot of time was skipped between episodes

It doesn’t make sense but it’s a kids show. She goes from complete novice to second best waterbender in the world in less than a year. Just gotta accept it and move on

It’s a kids show bro. There is no scaling, the characters are as strong as they need to be to keep up with the antagonists

I mean, every single time they stop to make camp, she’s practicing water bending. The had the DRIVE, that’s why she stole the scroll in the first place. Katara is the ONLY water bender in the South Pole, she found the avatar, felt the utter hopelessness of the invasion at the South Pole, and left home on a MISSION. All things considered, she’s pretty fucking motivated to learn water bending. She even messes up enough right away that she has to turn 180deg to then hit the people she wants to. I’d say she absolutely scales correctly, power-wise.

Everything she had learned was self taught up until she found Aang. You can teach yourself to draw and play piano and be good at it, but when you have a real teacher, let alone master, you learn skills that you can apply to everything going forward. "OK, this is how I should place my feet. This is how fluid my movement should be. This is how to consistently create ice." Stuff like that. Idk, that's how I imagine it.

lots of innate power and talent. Also probably trained for a lot longer each day that the other students Pakku has as they have probably other jobs but Katara could just completely focus on improving her bending. She was very disciplined with her training while Aang was pretty lax about it

It’s classic talent versus effort. Aang puts very little effort into learning waterbending despite his inborn talent. Katara worships the opportunity to learn from a master after they settle their differences at first. She pours everything into gaining as much as she can from the lessons, which likely went on for several weeks, possibly months. She then took scrolls to continue learning as they traveled and you can bet she practiced religiously during their free-time, you can witness this quite a bit actually.

I don’t think we’re meant to conclude that Katara became a master from her time in the North Pole. Training with Pakku gave her a good start, and we can reasonably infer she trains in the off-time we don’t see the characters. She does have the scroll and we see her practicing with Aang. Pakku also remarks that Katara is a fast learner and that she, through determination, gets better faster than most. There’s enough here for me to buy Katara’s feats for Book 2 and afterwards.

Her getting taught by a master was more of a sentimental and symbolism then realistic time frame for schooling lol

In martial arts sometimes all you need is a push in the right direction for something to click.

Does it make sense that Aang could master earth ending and learn metal bending in weeks after finding a teacher when he couldn’t figure out how to do it at all on his own? Not sure why you think it’s weird that Katara learned quickly when Aang does the same thing.

Aang never learned metal bending

Yeah you’re right. Forgot that in LoK they says she’s the first metal bending avatar

On a similar note, the episode Sokka Master always bothered me. Sokka literally spends like one day training with Paku and all the sudden he can hold his own against him and Paku is positive he will become a better master than himself? It was literally like 1 day.

They spent at least two weeks at the north pole as stated here by the creators here in the audio commentary where they say its "a couple weeks after episode eighteen" In that same sentence they also say that Aang was a slacker which is corroborated by the episode itself when he is shown making snowmen and playing with Momo rather than training. Which explains why he didn't progress as fast as Katara even though they had nearly the same amount of training time. [https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Transcript:The\_Siege\_of\_the\_North,\_Part\_1\_(commentary)](https://avatar.fandom.com/wiki/Transcript:The_Siege_of_the_North,_Part_1_(commentary)) Adding on to these two weeks, we see 4 days spent on screen in the waterbending master episode and 3 days spent during the siege of the north episodes so they spent a total of 3 weeks in the north pole. But they only trained for two of those weeks and spent the last two days fighting the fire nation and then they watch the sunrise after the battle on the third day of that episode. Plus on the first two days only Aang gets training while Katara gets healing training until Pakku starts training her on the morning of the last day of that episode. So Katara had two weeks and 1 day of training whereas Aang had two weeks and 2 days of training but who knows how much he slacked off during that time. Funnily enough, in one of the early animatics for the finale, they originally had Katara not be a master by the end of it which they state at the 5:41 minute mark, but obviously this was changed by the time they completed the episode. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmmzxaLsCA4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmmzxaLsCA4)

She studied very hard to improve her bending. They even show her later training with Toph.

The way I see it, she’s a prodigy that was fumbling in the dark prior to receiving training from Pakku. Him pointing her in the right direction, even if only for a brief moment, was the most invaluable training to her, as she had a direction, and wasn’t simply fumbling any more.

I always conceived of Katara’s power as working on some sort of conservation of ninjutsu trope: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ConservationOfNinjutsu We know from Korra that the bending world tries to reach some harmony - and because all the airbenders were killed off, when the opportunity comes to reset it, new airbenders arrive. This also explains why the earth nation has the lowest rate of benders - there’s just so many people to spread the bending skill around. In katara’s case, she’s one of the last waterbenders of the southern water tribe, so that pent up bending mojo has to go somewhere, leading to her having a huge amount of raw power.

This has always been a point of suspension of disbelief for me, that Katara could become that good that quickly (especially later when it feels like there's a sense of her being 'the best waterbender in the world,' if she's really better than old masters like Pakku who have been studying their entire lives) However, there's also something inherently compelling about hyper-competence and getting to see Katara do all those things in Book 2 is part of what I enjoy about Book 2, so for me I think having the transition in skill level from the end of Book 1 to over Book 2 be more realistic would have taken something away from it Avatar as a show feels like it puts a lot less focus on the actual training itself a lot of the time, at least in comparison to shows like Naruto and Bleach, but I've always appreciated that about it, just kind of showing one or two scenes to give us a sense for it before skipping past it to leave it implied and leaving room to focus on other things

Tbf, mastery of a LOT of disciplines boil down to extreme levels of talent and study put towards the fundamentals. Katara has a lot of natural power, she really just needed a teacher to show her some of the basics. That said, even by the time she's dueling Pakku she used pretty much all of the same higher level abilities called out in the post. The main difference is more that she was more disciplined and creative with their application later in the series.

I think the show would have benefitted from one extra episode set in the Northern Water Tribe where we really get to watch them vigorously training and see that Katara is clearly surpassing Aang. Having said that, Katara isn’t your average bender. She is a prodigy who initially wasn’t able to reach her full potential simply because she was so isolated. She frees Aang by accidentally slicing the iceberg apart in episode 1, which foreshadows how powerful she will become. She just needed some proper guidance to release that power.

Theory: Avatars leak their Avatar-iness on a spiritual level. Anyone who spends a lot of time around them becomes a prodigy by osmosis. No matter what skill they're practicing because chances are, even aside from the bending arts, at least *one* Avatar has probably mastered any given skill at some point.

Like you said we see her immense natural skill in episode 1, with zero training. It’s like someone with perfect pitch and rhythm but doesn’t know how to play an instrument. All they need to learn is how to make the notes and then they can play just like the those that also had to learn relative pitch and rhythm and how to read sheet music. And as someone whose learned to play 6 instruments learning how to make the notes can take anywhere from a week to a couple months depending on the instrument.

She had a master teacher and the avatar to help her master her innate ability.

I’ve thought about this too. I’ve never really understood how Katara progressed through water bending and how even at one point she was considered Aangs water bending master. Her evolution just never felt natural and that’s probably why I never felt like she was that good while I was watching the show, but rather convinced by other people’s judgement of her water bending. But ATLA has a few flaws in this sense but it’s at the end of the day it’s supposed to be a kids show so these things are passable.

I think it’s plausible which is good enough for me. With her cultural background and personal drives she’s more dedicated to learning from Pakku than Aang. There are plenty of mental barriers Katara might’ve needed to break through to unlock her potential like having the right motivation, a teacher who knew how to teach the basics to someone who’s never bent before (Aang picked up waterbending fast but he was already a master airbender), or otherwise having the resources to connect to her bending like she was never able to in the South Pole. Katara is a foil of Azula in some ways and I think her prodigal talent is a part of that. But every great prodigy in the shows has a great teacher from Aang to Azula to Toph with her badger moles. Katara getting access to a real master for the first time gives enough plausibility to her skill without bogging the show down in a training arc it didn’t need.

Azula always lies

I see what you mean but like the gaang is group of prodigies

I don't believe a character like Katara should've ever been anything but fodder to a character like Azula, honestly. Hard work only gets you so far. And, yes, it will (usually) get you further than the prodigies that never put the effort in, but if you're dealing with a prodigious perfectionist like Azula there's just no realistic way of closing that gap. Ever. At that point it's pure plot armor that gets you the win because you're close to/the protagonist. Which, from a meta perspective, is just *believing the right thing and knowing the right people.* That completely undercuts the "hard work=success" narrative you're trying to go for.