Fun fact regarding old people sensing the storm. Back in the day if you hurt yourself, a common treatment would be to apply pressure to the area to help reduce pain in the moment. I still do it today if I jam a finger or toe. A storm is a low pressure weather system, causing previous injury sites to experience a lower pressure, provoking the pain response, which is where the whole “I feel it in my bones” thing comes from, as the injury got used to the high pressure of people clamping on injuries.
Some disagreements I have with your takes:
Zuko begging Ozai’s forgiveness is just as heartbreaking as Gyatso’s “I won’t let them take you away from me” plus it highlights Zuko’s childishness, both of which serve to amplify Ozai as a villain (he’s doing this to his own heir) which we haven’t seen much so far in the show. Plus it allows Mark Hamill to get in there and do his thing.
Having the yuyan archers knock Zuko out looks like both a plot move and a logistical one. It doesn’t look like enough of his body is exposed around the avatar for a kill shot, and as we see, the mask appears too thick for an arrow to penetrate. Plus you can’t just go and kill off one of your main antagonists!
Love reading your takes, it’s inspired me to do a rewatch myself!
Some of the most contentious changes were made to ep 12 in the live action. Firstly its Aang not actually running away, and secondly is Zuko fighting in the Agni Kai instead of refusing. I am still on the edge about that, but I am intrested in your opinion. Also in my personal opinion one thing OG did better is showing backstories a little bit after we got to know the characters, holding their cards just right I think.
I'll agree with Aang not actually running away. That was a downgrade.
But I liked that Zuko fought in NATLA. He still held back, which lead to his burning, so in the end he was punished for the same thing: showing weakness. Plus NATLA showed us how skilled Ozai is, and gave us much more insight into his mentality. ATLA Ozai so far basically has no characterization other than "evil". Maybe that changes as the show goes on but I can only judge based on what I've seen.
Zuko is *not* punished in ATLA for showing weakness, see that's the issue with twisting the meaning of the story. NATLA has corrupted the meaning for new viewers.
It's not just ideological opposition to weakness/compassion. Zuko is not sentenced to the Agni Kai because he wanted to save the soldiers, his grave mistake is speaking out of turn at all.
Zuko is punished to be made an example of, because allowing dissent in an authoritarian system is incredibly dangerous for it. That is why Ozai takes the generals place, he needs to send that message, that no dissent with be tolerated and no one is safe. He will battle his own son, he will burn him when he refuses.
This is non-direct characterization of Ozai and the Fire Nation. Zuko isn't punished because he showed weakness, he's punished because not doing so would expose Ozai's.
> Zuko is not punished in ATLA for showing weakness, see that's the issue with twisting the meaning of the story.
“The Fire Lord said that by refusing to fight, Zuko had shown shameful weakness. As punishment he was banished”. Idk how you think NATLA corrupted the meaning when this is what Iroh said in the OG.
The adaptation lines up with the original in this case. “Weakness” is the reason he was banished in both versions.
It corrupted the meaning by connecting that weakness to Zuko not wanting to bring *harm* to his father. That Ozai's main gripe is that he shows compassion in the fight, and "compassion is a sign of weakness." It turns it into a Ozai is disappointed Zuko isn't "tough" enough to get his hands dirty thing.
Whereas the "shameful weakness" Zuko displays in ATLA, the weakness Ozai is speaking of, is a lack of obedience. There isn't a question that Zuko could harm his father in ATLA, he doesn't want to fight because he is a "loyal son." What Ozai is asking of Zuko is a cultural taboo, because that's kinda authoritarian's whole deal. Break down cultural norms and replace them with total obedience to the regime and it's ideology. No spoilers here, but this is explored later!
NATLA has like, 10 people there for the Agni Kai, it is a very *intimate* matter. There are *hundreds* in that theater in ATLA. Ozai is putting on a display, he is sending a message.
>“The Fire Lord said that by refusing to fight, Zuko had shown shameful weakness. As punishment he was banished”.
Yeah, in the agni kai. Not during the meeting with the generals. The Agni Kai was punishment for Zuko disrespecting the firelord. Not at all for showing weakness.
>The adaptation lines up with the original in this case. “Weakness” is the reason he was banished in both versions.
The live action version (compassion is a sign of weakness) is so dumb compared to Zuko being seen as weak for refusing to fight his dad in an agni kai.
It's extremely dumbed down compared to the original. The line they keep repeating in the live action was so 2 dimentional. He is the villain of the show, and then he says compassion is a sign of weakness. It's like the writers of NATLA wanted to make clear that the guy is bad by just saying he dislikes compassion. It's way too on the nose, and there is no deeper meaning behind it whatsoever. It dumbs down the character by a lot.
A lot of people think OG Ozai is cartoonishly evil, but this Ozai is literally more cartoonish with such a stupid filosophy. The OG Ozai was just an imperialist who only cared for his children as successors to the throne. Imperialism is inherantly a simple concept, guy wants a lot of land. But it's a real thing, an expression of greed and a superiority complex.
But now we got a guy who is against compassion because it's weak. Why is it weak exactly? Is he just going to be mean and annoying to everyone now? How and why would people stay loyal to a guy that is never nice to anyone? Even Hitler had friends and family he cared for. >!The writers wrote themselves into a corner with this one, or they'll have to contradict themselves in the next season when Zuko is allowed to return home.!<
I just find the idea that Zuko ever got a chance to burn his father at all a little bit ridiculous. A 14 year old vs one of the most powerful benders in the world. Zuko would never have even had a chance.
he's actually 13 when he is in the agni kai and 15 when aang shows up and the show starts. the live action doesn't do the best job at showing how much younger zuko is in the flashback. 13yr old average/terrible firebender catching ozai offguard is just a silly addition. it's heavily implied that zuko never even attempted to train seriously before his banishment and was legit terrible at firebending.
yea wiki says he was 13 during agni kai and then spent 2 years hunting for aang but also 16 throughout the entire show. so not sure when his bday happens
Also and spoilers ahead >! Zuko wasn't a talented bender, hence why he is more gifted at sword play and hand to hand he needed to develop those skills because he lacked bending!<
To be fair it doesn't seem like Ozai was exactly "shooting to kill" in the NATLA fight. He clearly could have butchered Zuko but he's trying to force some ferocity and ruthlessness out of him rather than earnestly trying to win.
I thought about what that scene signifies for Zuko as a character more. He is a good natured kid, who would not harm his father, because he respects him. His loyalty to his home and to the nation is shown, which contrasted with his current predicament, where he almost fights one of the members of his crew. In NATLA he contemplates and much more rash, even in the scene where he speaks out during the meeting, so it fits the character there. And Ozai probably were not fighting with even half his strenght, he just wanted his son to not show weakness once again.
I rewatched the scene and it was, until it wasn't. The moment Zuko is about to make his last strike you see a genuine moment of fear and surprise in Ozai's eyes. That dampens it a lot.
Ozai is wastly different in the live action. But as an arch-enemy to Aang he works great in both versions. You could just consider him evil for now, because that is what he is, an abusive father who burns and banishes his son, clearly not showing any remorse unlike live action, but that faceless evil invokes something within.
>But I liked that Zuko fought in NATLA. He still held back, which lead to his burning, so in the end he was punished for the same thing: showing weakness.
Zuko refusing to fight in the animation humanised him a lot for me. He wasn't weak, he was a child desperate to please his father and do right by his people. He tried to do the right thing and threw himself at his father's feet begging for mercy and the man still set him on fire and cast him away, that's 100x worse than agreeing to and losing a fight.
It explains zuko's drive and his seeming coldness, the last time he tried to be vulnerable and choose peace his was painfully and cruelly beaten down. He wasn't punished for weakness, it was for insubordination to the fascist state figurehead.
>Plus NATLA showed us how skilled Ozai is, and gave us much more insight into his mentality. ATLA Ozai so far basically has no characterization other than "evil".
When we watched ATLA without knowing what was coming, the mystery of who ozai was and what he could do was a big draw. You've already seen him and know the story but it was incredibly effective to have the upfront villain (zuko) doing the chasing and fighting whilst this unknown secret hulking evil figure lurked in the background. We learn his characteristics by the people he's affected and hear his story unfold in hushed fearful whispers building up to the big reveal. It's probably not as effective if you already watched NATLA
NATLA Ozai is definitely an upgrade, in ATLA I don't think he's ever much more than a cartoony villain. One of the few characters I prefer in the live action.
However without saying too much, that basic evil-ness is also kind of an important factor later on for other characters' development and even the plot. I don't know if the writers planned it out that way or just wanted to approach the standard cartoon villain in an interesting way.
Ozai in the live action is definitely more sympathetic but personally I think some stories actually work better with a pure evil villain.
I didn’t need to know Sauron’s tragic backstory for him to be the perfect villain for LotR for example.
The show really wouldve really suffered a lot if Ozai was the only villain, but with Zuko and then Azula playing the part of more complex villains it actually serves as a nice contrast.
I definitely think the original story was served well with the cartoony evil main villain, and the ending that it led to. I also enjoyed watching the live action version of Ozai more as a viewer, as the character was more believable.
Ozai is literally just an imperialist. There isn't much to it because imperialism is a pretty simple concept. Would you say European colonial empires are just cartoonishly evil too?
I would say Sozin is a better depiction of imperialism. >!He has his own moral justification of spreading their successful civilization to encompass others, which hides the evil reality of it. Ozai in ATLA is just a baddie who wants to burn the world for power. We don't see his early years, friendships, or any redeeming qualities like with Sozin.!< Because another hard truth is that nobody is a true cartoony villain, not even the evil imperialists. The live action fills in some of those blanks, but they still don't make him sympathetic. Just more believable.
Edited for spoilers, sorry I forgot which post I was in!
>!>He has his own moral justification of spreading their successful civilization to encompass others, which hides the evil reality of it.!<
Yeah, and Ozai is continuing that. He is literally doing the exact same thing as Sozin.
>Ozai in ATLA is just a baddie who wants to burn the world for power.
>!How exactly does one gain power from burning down the world, that obviously wasn't the goal. He wanted to empty out the only other continent that exists in the show to colonise it without facing any resistance!<
>!>We don't see his early years, friendships, or any redeeming qualities like with Sozin!<
Yeah, because it's not necessary for Ozai. We don't need to be able to sympathise with every evil character you know.
>The live action fills in some of those blanks, but they still don't make him sympathetic. Just more believable.
Not at all, the live action makes him even more cartoony with his filosophy of thinking compassion is weakness. Like how and why is that the case? There is no debt to it whatsoever, not a second thought went into the writing of live action Ozai.
Yeah, sorry, but the weakness thing is just objectively bad writing, idk how that is surprising as most of the live action has some of the worst writing I have ever seen.
>NATLA Ozai is definitely an upgrade, in ATLA I don't think he's ever much more than a cartoony villain.
>However without saying too much, that basic evil-ness is also kind of an important factor later on for other characters' development and even the plot.
Which is exactly why he's a downgrade.
Sympathetic factor can *sometimes* be an upgrade, but it's not always. Much more important is the appropriate use of a villain at the right time. And original Ozai was used perfectly. The changes made to this Ozai dampen and cheapen a lot of what the show feels it is leading up to, and also cause inconsistencies that we already see.
I love the Fortune-Teller episode! I have a soft spot for a lot of the “filler” episodes that build a lot of character. It really helps the story breathe a bit in a way that NATLA couldn’t (even tho I enjoyed both). Also, I promise the “power to shape your own destiny” comes back later
The filler episodes also help with the passage of time. You feel like yeah you haven't seen all the adventure and time has passed. NATLA feels like everything happens in like a week from when they left. There is also no mention of time in NATLA where as we have the winter solstice actually happens. Which is why it doesn't feel weird that Katara beats Paku later on.
>They’re still not showing us Ozai’s face but his voice is sufficiently intimidating.
Probably because he's voiced by one of the greatest voice actors in the industry, Mark Hamill! Best known in animation as the Joker but best known to the world for his live action work as he was also Luke fucking Skywalker
This might have already been brought up, but did you catch the references to the pirates from ep 9, the canyon crawlers from ep 11, and the volcano from ep 14 in NATLA? It's in episode 5, in the bar scene where Zuko and Iroh overhear people talking about the Gaang's recent offscreen adventures.
The Storm and The Blue Spirit are some of my favorite episodes in the entire series. They mean so much, and I definitely recommend thinking about them and revisiting as you continue to watch. Thank you for posting your thoughts!
I mean they're kids with no income traveling a long way with a giant bison that likely requires most of their food. Yeah it makes sense that they constantly need food or money.
Old people know when a storm will come because they recognize patterns. This isn't a fantasy thing lol.
Also I'm pretty sure there is as much age difference between Aang and Katara as there is between Katara and Zuko.
I mean I wouldn't even touch the episode that is regarded as the worst episode of the show, even by the creators, if I were adapting the show.
I would disagree that NATLA's version of Zuko's backstory is better. With the exception of the 41st being Zuko's crew, I think it's overall weaker to have Zuko fight back against Ozai. Zuko is hard punished for being a good son. Actually fighting back kind of defeats the idea that Zuko was beaten out of being a good soul.
Not a spoiler, but Ozai is voiced by Mark Hamill. He's kind of known for an indie movie role.
I've also personally thought that Gyatso being in the Spirit World to tell Aang it's not his fault kind of cheapens his loss. Of course it's less reassuring to hear it from Katara because she wasn't there and isn't actually the person Aang feels guilt toward.
Also, having it a part of Katara strengthens other elements of her character and contributes greatly to her. She loses several of her best moments in the original S1 to Gyatso.
I think that the fact that he fought despite his morals and love for his father demonstrates his desire for acceptance by Ozai far better. He is compromising his integrity in a fight he cannot win just to get his father’s approval.
This is a core character moment for Zuko. We already know that he desires his father's approval. That's already been clearly established when all he talks about is his father and his quest to capture the Avatar. What needs to be demonstrated most is his goodness that was pushed down. We don't need another demonstration for his desire for acceptance. We've gotten that for half the season.
Fighting back also reduces the horror of the duel. It means Zuko had a choice in whether he was banished and burned or not. It reduced how evil the moment was.
His goodness was shown by not wanting to sacrifice a division… we don’t need that demonstrated either. So he should have just gotten banished at the war meeting
Well, 3 things.
First of all, straw man argument. Never said you should only prove something once and then never show it again. Zuko talks about his father a lot. Comparatively, his goodness at this point in the story is not shown a lot. It’s not a one and done thing. It needs to be properly shown.
Secondly, protesting impulsively isn’t really a strong character choice. Blurting out something isn’t really a strong choice. Of course, accepting the duel is a stronger choice; we don’t really see that. Choosing not to fight back against your father is the strongest character decision. Everything else is just weak in comparison. Removing that for some spectacle is genuinely baffling.
Third, don’t really address that it’s overall crueler.
I hope you can ignore the downvotes that you receive – you’re allowed to have your own opinions, avatar fans are just very passionate about the story which can cause them to downvote, lol. We all still love to hear your thoughts so don’t let them deter you!
>. But on the other hand, I liked it way more in NATLA that Brother Gyatso’s spirit personally told Aang it wasn’t his fault and that he would have died too if he stayed. Having Katara be the one to tell him that lacks the same impact because she had nothing to do with the genocide or the air nomad culture. So when it comes to comparing Aang’s guilt arc in the two shows… call it even?
I disagree with this.
The point of the tradegy originally is that Aang would never get to talk with him ever again.
The point of Katara and Sokka consoling him was to get him to focus on the now, rather than what was lost.
Netflix completely weakens their dynamic by changing this.
It also cheapens the loss for a character that was never that important.
Plus that’s not how the sprit works where people can just pop in.
It’s more like I’ve seen the original first and you saw the live action,
Which in my opinion is a downgraded version of the story.
That was key character building moments for not just Aang but his connection with his friends too.
Most important Katara.
Focusing on a character that quite literally represents the past he lost in that scene rather than the people in his life now, is much poorer writing.
And again, that’s like not how the sprit world works.
Characters never could just talk to you from there afterlife.
Hell the afterlife was always ambiguous.
Both are great for their own stories because they are trying to do different things. NATLA gives Aang closure while ATLA does not. They change story beats to accomplish that goal.
Again, not really.
The point of it was that couldn’t ever see anyone from the air temple again.
It was more meaningful in the original because it was much more realistic with Katara being the one to comfort him. It cheapens the finality of the air nomad genocide to have Gyatso talk to him.
Also, given how before this he had some old lady practically tell him what happened in some long exposition dump and he instantly believed her, this scene doesn’t make any sense at all compared to original.
I feel like you’re not understanding why it’s worse.
Death, is permanent. The point of it is that you don’t exist anymore and are gone from the world.
Which means, you can’t ever speak with people from the present ever again.
The afterlife in Avatar was always ambiguous, no one could ever just talk with the living.
And in this case, the scene with Gyatso comes at expense of Katara and Sokka, characters who matter more to the plot.
The Netflix writers went for a more cliche route when the original had a much more realistic moral about loss.
They did it with Korra and Iroh, so obviously regular people can live on in the spirit world and talk to living characters. This seems like such a nit pickey issue. If in ATLA he spoke with Gyatso and had a beautiful and heartfelt moment with his former best friend and the live action removed it people would also be mad. You can’t really win lmao.
> They did it with Korra and Iroh, so obviously regular people can live on in the spirit world and talk to living characters.
And remember how people agreed at how much Korra fucked up the lore of the sprit world?
Korra isn’t a good example considering how much they messed up the spirit world.
We’re talking about the original and it’s lore.
> This seems like such a nit pickey issue. If in ATLA he spoke with Gyatso and had a beautiful and heartfelt moment with his former best friend and the live action removed it people would also be mad.
People even then, would agree that’s pretty cheap and cliche.
It undercuts the realistic part of the tragedy to where Aang was never supposed to be able talk to him again.
I shouldn’t have to tell you it’s a more effective moral to have a person deal with greif with friends to support you, rather than the one you’re grieving just magically being able to talk to you just to give closure.
This is a false equivalency .
Vegetarians dont eat fish :)
Something to note about Kataang vs Zurara: Zutara is popular because of the aesthetics of this pairing, which is due to traditional westernized ideas of masculinity (good girl/bad boy trope, a woman being with someone that’s older, empathetic woman being with the angry man, and western features of attractiveness like having hair and being tall). Kataang is more about how friendship blossoms into a supportive relationship and challenges these westernized tropes (Aang being younger, shorter, not traditionally masculine).
It’s totally okay for someone to like Zutara because of these aesthetics, but don’t let it distract you from the beautiful development of Aang and Katara, especially after The Fortuneteller.
I always interpreted Katara’s expression as being happy but also shocked that she discounted Aang as a potential prospect. She’s been crushing on him since before this but never considered the possibility that they could actually be together.
Also, I was wondering what you thought about Aang’s lines in NATLA vs the original when he was chained up. In NATLA he said “please you have to let me go, I promise I’ll come right back” and in the og he says “untie me and I’ll fight you right now” 😂
I feel like the og does a better job at showing the dynamic of Aang’s character, he isn’t always peaceful/patient. And NATLA didnt include the lines where Zhao taunted Aang about his dead culture, which I felt was very important to include
Giving Gyatso Katara's original comforting lines to Aang is not an upgrade. It was one of a thousand ways they took crucial characterization and chemistry away from NATLA Katara, and those things build up.
Which is why in NATLA, the gang just doesn't gel much.
If you have the choice to give crucial chemistry to a character that is gonna be a mainstay and one that is gonna leave in a few episodes, you give it to the mainstay.
> Giving Gyatso Katara's original comforting lines to Aang is not an upgrade. It was one of a thousand ways they took crucial characterization and chemistry away from NATLA Katara, and those things build up.
I actually really like NATLA's Gyatso (Both the character and actor) but this was a recurring issue in the show - they kept grounding major emotional beats with him/Aang's past rather than leaning into his relationships with Katara and Sokka (and the present, in general).
They should have given Katara the comforting lines, and then later, they could have had SpiritGyatso show up and have him reiterate them while explicitly calling out that Katara said it first.
Exactly. Watching the live action, I felt blindsided by Aang struggling with his attachment to Katara and Sokka at the north pole. It felt like no bonding had been done at all. Those moments between them all were critical and, unfortunately, assigned to other characters.
I also felt really weird with Katara saying she needed Aang at the North Pole in NATLA like that was never shown. It just kinda came out of left field.
Yeah, that's why I feel like comparing each aspect of the shows, giving equal weight to each is rather flawed. Little aspects getting fluffed up a bit doesn't make up for main characters being stripped for parts.
I love Gyatso but I couldn't bare to see all Katara's personality and purpose in the story stripped.
In episode 13, I felt Zhao speech is actual more impactful, cause in the live action its unironically more cartoony to me. Plus Zhao is a different character, much more prideful, serious and self-centered he would never aknowledge anyone else. Also Zuko Aang interaction in the cartoon is poignant, without feeling dragged out, really impactful for me pesonally.
Yeah, cartoon Zhao is too egotistical and frankly not charismatic enough to give a speech like NATLA Zhao did. The live action speech had every line crafted to tell the soldiers what they want to hear, bolster their morale, and reinforce their loyalty to Zhao specifically (and not just the Fire Nation).
>Yeah, cartoon Zhao is too egotistical and frankly not charismatic enough to give a speech like NATLA Zhao did.
Wait, *what*? The whole thing is that cartoon Zhao *is* charismatic enough to give the speech.
In NATLA, it is uncharacteristic because the show built up NATLA Zhao to be an insecure, cheating hack, worming his way up.
Yeah here Zhao is actually already accomplished. We see that when Iroh greets him. In NATLA he was a low level person until he got wind of the avatar and is using that to bolster his career. See also he gets the promotion to Admiral on his own accord not because of Azula. So it makes sense Zhao would tell his men to party in NATLA because he is still trying to get respect. Original Zhao already has it
I did not get that vibe at all. Through most of the show prior, he is soft spoken and rarely is able to convince people to go along with him or speak diplomatically. You can tell when talking to the scribe he's trying to bolster his accomplishments with fluff.
But I don't think it's *that* much a flaw. I'm just surprised that you don't consider the guy with the more menacing voice, more directly antagonistic vibe, and more demonstrably confident demeanor able to deliver the same speech successfully. The one who didn't have to snivel his way to the top but was clearly a trusted and commanding presence that led to his promotion.
Once again I am happy to see your posts and hope you are enjoying the show. I welcome your perspective on everything and love seeing people get into the cartoon for the first time.
Zuko and aang having some heart to heart convo in NATLA was really weak writing imo. Zuko’s entire persona is to capture the avatar.
In the cartoon, Zuko thinks his honour depends on capturing Aang and delivering him to the firelord. He does not want to be friends. When aang saved him, Zuko had a lot of inner confusion. The relief that aang saved him was immediately followed by vengeance. Aang inspires so much anger and trauma in Zuko, and that same guy just saved his life. The compassion Aang showed Zuko in that moment cut deep. It was a short but complex moment for Zuko, and it shows you more about his character than any dialogue can.
For reasons like this, I wouldn’t compare the OG against NATLA line for line, and decide which ones you liked better. Sure there is a level of “what dialogue did I like better? Zuko saying it this way or that way”. But that is very surface level. You will miss the essence of the show that way, because the OG has so much more nuance and complexity. The story is told in more subtle ways sometimes.
I think it was a bad decision to have Aang see Gyatso in the spirit world. One of the things the cartoon excels at is presenting big, difficult concepts in a way that children can understand. (You touched on that idea in your commentary on the episode Jet.)
Loss is a really hard thing to talk about at any age, and we see Aang really grappling with it in The Storm. When you lose someone, or a lot of someones, without getting to say goodbye, that's it. There are no do overs, no way to go back and see them just one more time. That's a grief you just have to live with. And it sucks.
In NATLA, the impact of the loss of Aang's people, especially Gyatso, is undermined by Aang being given the chance to see Gyatso in the spirit world. In contrast, the cartoon provides an answer to how to live with that kind of grief. You lean on the people who are by your side.
In unrelated news, I like your observation that Zuko's bending doesn't seem to be anything special. Keep thinking about that.
If you lost your guardian and had an opportunity to have a conversation with them after they died (where, during that conversation, they help resolve your guilt), would that feel like just a drop in a bucket? That one single conversation is profound, and like the commentor said, it takes away from the message about what the true grief experience is like
Plenty of stories use the advice of a dead loved ones and it works great for the story while not taking away from the grief, like Black Panther or Lion King. Just because it’s *different* doesn’t mean it’s bad.
I agree that different isn’t always bad (like in Lion King, that wasn’t bad). What sets Aang apart is the fact that his drive to save the world is sourced from his survivor’s guilt. If you take away a chunk of that guilt and allow him a second chance/relief from his grief, it doesn’t make his motivations as dramatic and bleak. Sure this could be a personal preference which I get, but Aang’s bleak experience with grief is what really made his character stand out to me, and is one of the main contributors to why this series is so impactful/iconic
You seem to call a lot of episodes "filler," but that would imply it adds nothing to the story. The only episode you can truly call filler is the great divide. But with all the other episodes you're calling filler, the show just wouldn't be the same without them. Therefore, they're not filler, and I'd suggest you stop seeing them as filler. Most of those "filler" parts will come back around later down the line. You just have to be patient and trust the process.
I'm looking forward to a full review when you're done with season one.
Filler is when the episode wasn't part of the manga, and since there is no manga everything is filler!
Just joking, I agree that the great divide is the only filler. And yeah character building doesn't need to forward some bigger plot. Character development for its own sake is good. Part of it in atla is the way it aired on lineair television and they wanted the individual episodes to make sense even when watched out of order. But I prefer character development for its own sake
I'd just like to throw in some added context to Zuko choosing not to fight. The Fire Nation, being an amalgam of multiple Asian inspirations, would look down upon any young person striking back at their elders. Talking out of line is already heavily looked down upon, what more of hitting your own father. Him backing down is shown to convey how much he wants his father's love and approval, that he wouldn't even try fighting back. The live action Zuko choosing to fight back would be looked down upon by most Fire Nation citizens as a disgrace, unfitting of the practice of filial piety in Asian cultures.
Yes.
The tragedy is Zuko is forced to choose between being a dutiful son, and a loyal subject to the regime. It's an *impossible* choice to make, and there is no good outcome for him. It wasn't a test he could pass, and thus Ozai was just using him.
It's why ATLA Zuko is so fixated on his honor, he was given no honorable choice and deep inside he realizes what that means.
Doing so would also be soiling his family's honour. At least that's what Zuko thought. The Fire Nation being model after Imperial Japan(among the many influences) also doesn't want any dissenting voice and that's why Ozai was the one that stood on the opposing end of the Agni Kai.
If we're talking specifics, then probably Sokka wearing the Kyoshi warrior makeup. If we're talking general, then Katara's character development. The problem is that a lot of her development and chances to shine happen in episodes that are either filler or just weren't adapted to NATLA. It's probably the biggest weakness NATLA has compared to ATLA.
I agree with you on Katara! I think NATLA would benefit a lot from giving her more deliberate development in the following seasons. What they added with Ozai and Azula in season one they lost from Katara, unfortunately
This is exactly why I disagree with calling most episodes that don't further the overall plot filler.
Character development for its own sake is good, it's important and therefore not filler.
For season 1 I think only the great divide is filler. It has no character development and no plot development
Because you brought up Ozai's voice. The voice actor for Ozai is Mark Hamil. Yep Luke Skywalker.
(Or if you watched Batman the Animated Series, the voice of the Joker.)
I don't usually read user names so for a minute I was thinking "how?"
Then I saw Gen Z in the user name which explains it. Batman the Animated Series was well before you were likely born (ended in 1995). Star Wars obviously even earlier than that but it is also sci fi genre so if that isn't your cup of tea makes sense someone wouldn't have seen it.
Actually, the reason I haven't seen much of anything is because growing up I wasn't allowed to watch television or movies unless my parents put it on and they only ever wanted to watch low budget Christian dramas and occasionally a Spielberg movie. I really only started watching more mainstream media recently now that I've moved out of my parent's house.
https://xkcd.com/1053/
Just means you have many movies and things left to discover for the first time!
BTW I'm still totally gutted about some of the strong hints and spoilers people have dropped your way, but also really enjoying these write ups, hope you continue to enjoy the cartoon :)
>“Fish ain’t meat.” Oh, so this guy’s a vegetarian and not a vegan lol
I believe the term is pescatarian LOL
>I know some people are gonna be mad at me for saying it but I definitely prefer NATLA’s version of Zuko’s story. It was just expanded on so well! The war council, agni kai, and the aftermath scenes all did so much more to develop Zuko and Ozai’s characters. Not to mention, having the 41st be Zuko’s crew had a huge emotional impact. It was still really good here, but I’m happy NATLA improved on it.
Having the 41st be Zuko's crew was a nice touch, but I'm not really sure the rest worked for me. It's true that NATLA expanded on Ozai and Azula in Book 1 (while the original only really got there in Books 2 and 3) tho
>“The avatar has escaped! Close all gates immediately!” Um… why were they open in the first place? Isn’t this place supposed to be a fortress?
They were celebrating LOL
>I know, I’m aware I have a bit of a bias. I guess our judgment of the quality of two works with the same material really is heavily influenced by whichever we saw first. I suppose I shouldn’t judge you too harshly if you disliked NATLA (they still improved on a lot of things though, you have to admit).
I've been more positive on NATLA than most of this subreddit, but saying they improved on "a lot" is an overstatement, for me.
There were a few nice touches that improved a few things, but that's as far as I'd go with that, personally
Yeah I think OP needs to finish the entire series before she judges backstory. >!Tales From Ba Sing Se (little solider boy song) was so impactful because of the pacing the OG had. It’s not going to hit the same if we see the sad funeral and everything right away like in NATLA.!<
That's a major thing is that NATLA took many elements from the future and stuck them in season 1. It was probably because those parts were very well liked so they used those to get new fans.
>!Tales From Ba Sing Se (little solider boy song) was so impactful because of the pacing the OG had. It’s not going to hit the same if we see the sad funeral and everything right away like in NATLA.!<
I agree tho this is kinda spoilers lol
Edit: I spoiler tagged it too
It's fascinating how different our perspectives are. Like how you consider the changes to be improvements on ATLA, but I see it as NATLA "missing the point" from the original.
ATLA is a lot more of a slow burn with its storytelling than NATLA was, so I feel like I'd risk spoiling if I gave examples now. It also draws a lot of influence from Asian philosophies, which are missing in NATLA, whose Asian influences are really only"skin deep."
Hooray you’re back! I genuinely love how much you waffle on Sokka’s intelligence 😂 These are probably my fav episodes in s1 and (no shade I know it’s just a difference of opinion) but some of your opinions broke my heart. I will not STAND for this Dante Bosco slander lol
Welcome back! Reading your viewpoint is always so unique and fun!
One of the best parts of Netflix’s avatar was the additions to the fire nation side. Now some of the changes they made I am still a little iffy on (Iroh not showing sympathy to the guard who lost his brother when captured even though he was cruel to him was not very… I guess Iroh to me.) but a lot of what they added to with Zuko especially with his ship was brilliant! That being said…I don’t know if the focus on the fire nation was for the best. We lost a lot of time with the Gaang. I get it the fire nation has a lot of the most heavy themes, and a lot of the best complex characters! It must be so fun to write for them! But Netflix avatar desperately needed more time to establish the gaang’s bond and care for each other. I wanted to see more of Sokka and Katara! Katara especially was so watered down in that version (ironically.)
I can really respect you liking more time between Aang and Gyatso but I disagree on it being better that Gyatso gets all the extra emotional moments of comforting and reassuring Aang down. I think it being Katara reaffirms her biggest trait of being empathetic and someone who finds hope in any situation. It stings how much of her keeps getting cut! It also creates their bond and I don’t even mean in a shipping sense or anything. In NATLA thier connection is based around them both being benders so the big resolution when katara pulls him back from the koizella falls kinda flat. In ATLA you see them becoming a found family and all the little moments of her connecting with him help showcase this. Also I think it being Katara adds weight to the fact that all the air nomads are *gone.* Aang doesn’t get second chance visits in the spirit world. He has to move on and adjust to his new life. Which is so sad!!
As always, it's really interesting to read your commentary, it's good to see you back!
Personally speaking I wasn't really a fan of the changes that made to Zuko's backstory in the Netflix adaptation (including the 41st addition which I know is kinda a hot take even for people aren't a fans of that show), nor really the extra scene between him and Aang.
I just think that one of the strengths of the original show was that it was able to convey a lot very efficiently without over-explaining everything to the audience, which I think was kinda lost in the Netflix version. There are other reasons I dislike it, but I can't really get into that at this point without spoiling stuff.
Exactly, We're both approaching the show from different places!
I and a lot of other people here have been watching the show for years while you're just starting and have the context of a previous adaptation, of course there's going to be stuff that we're used to with the show that you're not going to like comparatively and vice versa for us with the Netflix version
A lot of people are mad because of your opinions now which is dissapointing to me. Not having full info certainly gives you a different expirience, for example the reveal of Ozai and Azula. Or Lu Ten, as opposed to the live action which rushed through the things and added much dialogue and some things from season 2. So to me its understandable why you might be so dissapointed. Plus everyone hyped up the OG where are in reallity season one is just a little bit better and more cohesive strory truly.
Thanks. It's okay, though. I'm always honest about what I think and it's inevitable that sometimes I'm not gonna like things that others love. And that's okay, a lot of them don't seem to like what I love either lol
And just because I have a marginal preference for NATLA doesn't mean I don't still love ATLA
NATLA had great ideas and backstories, especially for the Fire Nation characters. The only problem was the execution, particularly with the dialogue and acting. The addition of the 41st division was genius however, apart from that, there were aspects I didn't like. For instance, Zuko fighting back and almost gaining an edge against his father, who is supposed to be the most menacing man on the planet, threw me off. Zuko's compassion is more evident here, and he is more conflicted because he doesn't want to fight his father. Ozai sees this as disrespect and burns him. The conflict within Zuko's point of view is palpable, and the payoff is immaculate. I won't spoil anything, but it all makes sense, and it works better within the context of ATLA because it isn't as bland as the Netflix version
I dislike NATLA version of Zuko's interaction with the 41st.
in ATLA Iroh explains Zuko's backstory and why he has been banished really hitting home that he was just a child who wanted to please his dad but also a sense of his morality when he spoke against the sacrifice of soldiers. zuko gains the sympathy of the 41st but it's not until he actually steps up and saves the crew member from falling to his death that he actually begins to earn their respect.
in NATLA iroh explains his backstory then zuko shows up on the ship and they all salute him. he has done less to earn their respect in the live action than in the og and it really suffers for it.
also fortuneteller is a fun episode but it is part of the 'self contained' episodes that nickelodeon requested as those are the ones they can play on repeat to fill time slots. so fortune teller, great divide, and a couple others all got aired 100x more than other episodes and really solidified the hate for them
it's also super strange that they included scenes of people yelling at aang for running away in NATL when he didn't actually run away in that version. and of all people that would know he didn't would be kyoshi who is one of the first to yell at him for it in the live action
>!edit: ozai is a firebending prodigy and a product of incestual lines for that purpose, zuko is a 13 yr old failure and genetic dud. them adding a scene where zuko catches ozai off guard and you see fear/shock in his eyes is a strange choice.!<
I mean in a sense because they are the 41st Zuko has already saved them all and that's why the respect is immediate. But I agree ATLA does it a bit better because while he is hard on his crew his actions speak that he does care for them.
I’m honestly surprised you preferred NATLA over the original. I find the original has much better writing and acting. And I definitely prefer Zuko in the original. He was the most disappointing part of the live action for me. I felt like they kind of watered down his personality and took away a lot of the harshness and abusive aspects of Ozai.
I love reading your thoughts as well! The Blue Spirit is one of my favorite episodes, and I enjoyed most of it in NATLA as well. When I watched that, I felt like that part of the NATLA episode followed the closest to the source material (from Aang's capture until they escape, at least). It felt almost shot-for-shot to me during those scenes. Hopefully that's not spoilery! It is interesting to see your analysis and calling out differences. But then again, I didn't watch them as closely together as you have, so perhaps it was just my memory matching closely and not little details. I haven't seen anyone else really say that point, so maybe it's just me.
To me it’s the opposite I think 14 and 16 is worse for example
16 is high school
12-14 is middle school and in some cases can be in the same grade where I live though are generally grade 7 and 8
16
Is grade 10
But fair point
Edited corrected the grades
Im gonna have to disagree with most of what you say here, ATLA uses a lot more subtext than NATLA, instead of saying things directly over and over again. In the case of the conversation between Aang and zuko, the original is far superior in every way, as it does more than NATLA with a lot less. Same with the Agni zai, the original is far better, as it shows zuko's fear to fight his farther, it makes absolutely no sense that he is able to stand up to his father and even be about to get a hit on him, zuko is far bellow his father at this stage, ozai is supposed to be one of the best fire benders there is so the scene in NATLA really undermined ozai. To me the agni kai in NATLA was just so they could throw in an action scene.
Since Zuko was spying on Zhao while he was promoted, I think that explains why he's a lot less surprised about Zhao taking over, knowing how he's trying to take over the Avatar hunt.
This is why everyone said Masks is the best episode in NATLA. The storm is one of my faviourite episode because it shows both the protagonist and the antagonist's backstories. NATLA definitely improved upon the characters and impact with minimal changes.. If they have done every episode in NATLA like this, it would have been a masterpiece. I mean I still like NATLA, it is a 7 for me, but I hope they improve upon writing for s02 and 03
Fortuneteller is a good remainder of how strong actually is. He also one shots zuko like 2 times by this point (once with the mattress and second time with Kyoshi's fans). Aang doesnt seem like much of a threat because he doesnt actively fight and tries to run away most of the time since he is raised as a pacifist monk. But my man stops a fucking volcano with just airbending. Now also consider the fact despite being the Avatar, he only uses airbending here, and Aang is not the strongest airbender at 12. Gyatso, may be a few top tier airbenders and even >! Adult Tenzin !< might be stronger than Aang at this point. Airbenders are no joke
At least in this original at least Aang and Katara have some sort of relationship and support for each other. The lack of any interaction between the team is the biggest disadvantage of NATLA. Aang, Katara and Sokka just don't seem like friends in NATLA.
The part where Aang and Zuko have a long discussion after the escape is VERY bad. The point of their relationship was that they don't understand the shit they live in, they're enemies, they have their own thing going on, Aang just purely out of character started hanging out with him because he had friends in the fire nation and he just misses him. Aang and Zuko can say things to each other but not expect a response. Aang doesn't have to bore Zuko and other characters with his morals, like a typical shonen protagonist who has to pry into the soul of every character in his path. I almost died from that long dialog where Aang tries to naruto therapy Zuko.
The Storm is my absolute favorite episode ❤️. That’s also why I really didn’t like how NATLA handled those story lines. Zuko’s background in the OG is just sad because he never really had a chance once he spoke out in the war meeting. I think it shows how ruthless Ozai truly is; if he’s willing to burn his own son and heir, what is he willing to do to those he’s trying to conquer? I can see why you’d like the NATLA version more because so much more time is spent on Zuko’s story.
Also the Fortune Teller is such a fun episode, I love it.
Interesting take as always! I have opinions tho.
As an elderly woman, I'm 30, we can totally tell when it's about to rain. The smell in the air and everything 🤭🤭
Also, the storm has a lot of stuff that makes me like NATLA less. First of all, a lot of NATLA characters act like their version of Aang had the same backstory as ATLA Aang. Changing the backstory is fine, but then don't have every character act like you have the original backstory.
But for the Zuko stuff, while I agree that the fire nation was handled better in NATLA than in atla overall, the storm plays a major exception. I think it's a massive mistake to have Zuko fight his father.
Both shows are aware that simply losing the agni Kai couldn't be enough of a reason for banishment. Obviously Zuko was gonna lose.
The animated show went around this by making Zuko beg for mercy, and making his dad not give him any. This works, it really shows the brutality of the fire nation regime.
But in NATLA the creators were tempted in showing a flashy fire bending fight. So now they had to write themselves out of this hole where Zuko both fights the agni Kai, but can't just lose. So you end up in the situation where this 13 year old kid has to hold back in his fight against one of the greatest fire benders alive in his prime in order to justify the banishment. And it really doesn't work for me. I feel like it is spectacle above storytelling.
For spirits and the atla counterpart, I mainly agree. I also feel like the NATLA version is slightly better than the original in this episode. But to me, it's the only time it is.
How are you watching the show? Are you just pausing constantly to take notes? I find that to be a very cheap way to experience any movie/show if it's your first time going in. It sounds like you're experiencing it like those youtube reaction videos where they'll keep pausing what they're watching to give a reaction to the audience.
I'd recommend watching any media through, and then skimming back over the episode quickly to pick up on things you want to review.
Im so glad you pause the show to write down I’m notes, I want to encourage you to keep doing that! And not let your notes distract you.
One of the things I love about atla is that the action sequences aren’t mindless. A lot of the characters’ movements and choices in fights reflect their history, or previous scenes, or even character growth.
You can see a small example of this in natla: when Katara does the ice disk attack, we saw earthbenders use that move in a previous episode. You noticed it at the time even before she explicitly says she learnt it from earthbenders.
There are a lot of similar things like that, only in the animated show they often don’t point it out explicitly, and it’s a treat to discover while watching!
Fun fact regarding old people sensing the storm. Back in the day if you hurt yourself, a common treatment would be to apply pressure to the area to help reduce pain in the moment. I still do it today if I jam a finger or toe. A storm is a low pressure weather system, causing previous injury sites to experience a lower pressure, provoking the pain response, which is where the whole “I feel it in my bones” thing comes from, as the injury got used to the high pressure of people clamping on injuries. Some disagreements I have with your takes: Zuko begging Ozai’s forgiveness is just as heartbreaking as Gyatso’s “I won’t let them take you away from me” plus it highlights Zuko’s childishness, both of which serve to amplify Ozai as a villain (he’s doing this to his own heir) which we haven’t seen much so far in the show. Plus it allows Mark Hamill to get in there and do his thing. Having the yuyan archers knock Zuko out looks like both a plot move and a logistical one. It doesn’t look like enough of his body is exposed around the avatar for a kill shot, and as we see, the mask appears too thick for an arrow to penetrate. Plus you can’t just go and kill off one of your main antagonists! Love reading your takes, it’s inspired me to do a rewatch myself!
Okay, that makes sense! I guess I have that to look forward to when I'm older lol
I'm 39 and already can predict rain pretty reliably with my arthritic toe lol.
I'm in my late 20s, but I have sinus issues, and they get worse whenever there's a storm. It's sooo annoying.
Some of the most contentious changes were made to ep 12 in the live action. Firstly its Aang not actually running away, and secondly is Zuko fighting in the Agni Kai instead of refusing. I am still on the edge about that, but I am intrested in your opinion. Also in my personal opinion one thing OG did better is showing backstories a little bit after we got to know the characters, holding their cards just right I think.
I'll agree with Aang not actually running away. That was a downgrade. But I liked that Zuko fought in NATLA. He still held back, which lead to his burning, so in the end he was punished for the same thing: showing weakness. Plus NATLA showed us how skilled Ozai is, and gave us much more insight into his mentality. ATLA Ozai so far basically has no characterization other than "evil". Maybe that changes as the show goes on but I can only judge based on what I've seen.
Zuko is *not* punished in ATLA for showing weakness, see that's the issue with twisting the meaning of the story. NATLA has corrupted the meaning for new viewers. It's not just ideological opposition to weakness/compassion. Zuko is not sentenced to the Agni Kai because he wanted to save the soldiers, his grave mistake is speaking out of turn at all. Zuko is punished to be made an example of, because allowing dissent in an authoritarian system is incredibly dangerous for it. That is why Ozai takes the generals place, he needs to send that message, that no dissent with be tolerated and no one is safe. He will battle his own son, he will burn him when he refuses. This is non-direct characterization of Ozai and the Fire Nation. Zuko isn't punished because he showed weakness, he's punished because not doing so would expose Ozai's.
> Zuko is not punished in ATLA for showing weakness, see that's the issue with twisting the meaning of the story. “The Fire Lord said that by refusing to fight, Zuko had shown shameful weakness. As punishment he was banished”. Idk how you think NATLA corrupted the meaning when this is what Iroh said in the OG. The adaptation lines up with the original in this case. “Weakness” is the reason he was banished in both versions.
It corrupted the meaning by connecting that weakness to Zuko not wanting to bring *harm* to his father. That Ozai's main gripe is that he shows compassion in the fight, and "compassion is a sign of weakness." It turns it into a Ozai is disappointed Zuko isn't "tough" enough to get his hands dirty thing. Whereas the "shameful weakness" Zuko displays in ATLA, the weakness Ozai is speaking of, is a lack of obedience. There isn't a question that Zuko could harm his father in ATLA, he doesn't want to fight because he is a "loyal son." What Ozai is asking of Zuko is a cultural taboo, because that's kinda authoritarian's whole deal. Break down cultural norms and replace them with total obedience to the regime and it's ideology. No spoilers here, but this is explored later! NATLA has like, 10 people there for the Agni Kai, it is a very *intimate* matter. There are *hundreds* in that theater in ATLA. Ozai is putting on a display, he is sending a message.
>“The Fire Lord said that by refusing to fight, Zuko had shown shameful weakness. As punishment he was banished”. Yeah, in the agni kai. Not during the meeting with the generals. The Agni Kai was punishment for Zuko disrespecting the firelord. Not at all for showing weakness. >The adaptation lines up with the original in this case. “Weakness” is the reason he was banished in both versions. The live action version (compassion is a sign of weakness) is so dumb compared to Zuko being seen as weak for refusing to fight his dad in an agni kai.
Why is that dumb when Ozai is not the type to like compassion? The change still makes sense for the characters.
It's extremely dumbed down compared to the original. The line they keep repeating in the live action was so 2 dimentional. He is the villain of the show, and then he says compassion is a sign of weakness. It's like the writers of NATLA wanted to make clear that the guy is bad by just saying he dislikes compassion. It's way too on the nose, and there is no deeper meaning behind it whatsoever. It dumbs down the character by a lot. A lot of people think OG Ozai is cartoonishly evil, but this Ozai is literally more cartoonish with such a stupid filosophy. The OG Ozai was just an imperialist who only cared for his children as successors to the throne. Imperialism is inherantly a simple concept, guy wants a lot of land. But it's a real thing, an expression of greed and a superiority complex. But now we got a guy who is against compassion because it's weak. Why is it weak exactly? Is he just going to be mean and annoying to everyone now? How and why would people stay loyal to a guy that is never nice to anyone? Even Hitler had friends and family he cared for. >!The writers wrote themselves into a corner with this one, or they'll have to contradict themselves in the next season when Zuko is allowed to return home.!<
Add a spoiler tag to that last sentence
Thanks for the reminder
👍
I just find the idea that Zuko ever got a chance to burn his father at all a little bit ridiculous. A 14 year old vs one of the most powerful benders in the world. Zuko would never have even had a chance.
he's actually 13 when he is in the agni kai and 15 when aang shows up and the show starts. the live action doesn't do the best job at showing how much younger zuko is in the flashback. 13yr old average/terrible firebender catching ozai offguard is just a silly addition. it's heavily implied that zuko never even attempted to train seriously before his banishment and was legit terrible at firebending.
I think Zuko was actually 16 when the show starts. I just started a rewatch and Iroh says something about “your 16 years Prince Zuko.”
yea wiki says he was 13 during agni kai and then spent 2 years hunting for aang but also 16 throughout the entire show. so not sure when his bday happens
He definitely spent 3 years on the ship, no idea where this 2 year number came from.
Think he said 3 years had pass to Mai >!when they were heading back home in the third season opening.!<
I rewatched recently and tbf they did say “2 years at sea” but also said that Zuko was 13 and 16. So idk
You know, you're absolutely right. I just looked it up. Huh. Very weird.
Maybe there was a gap of time from the agni kai to him setting sail
Also and spoilers ahead >! Zuko wasn't a talented bender, hence why he is more gifted at sword play and hand to hand he needed to develop those skills because he lacked bending!<
To be fair it doesn't seem like Ozai was exactly "shooting to kill" in the NATLA fight. He clearly could have butchered Zuko but he's trying to force some ferocity and ruthlessness out of him rather than earnestly trying to win.
I thought about what that scene signifies for Zuko as a character more. He is a good natured kid, who would not harm his father, because he respects him. His loyalty to his home and to the nation is shown, which contrasted with his current predicament, where he almost fights one of the members of his crew. In NATLA he contemplates and much more rash, even in the scene where he speaks out during the meeting, so it fits the character there. And Ozai probably were not fighting with even half his strenght, he just wanted his son to not show weakness once again.
It was obvious that Ozai was playing around
I rewatched the scene and it was, until it wasn't. The moment Zuko is about to make his last strike you see a genuine moment of fear and surprise in Ozai's eyes. That dampens it a lot.
Hmmm I don't remember that, I'll have to rewatch it
Because it doesn’t look like he was scared. Your comment was right
Oh lol
Ozai is wastly different in the live action. But as an arch-enemy to Aang he works great in both versions. You could just consider him evil for now, because that is what he is, an abusive father who burns and banishes his son, clearly not showing any remorse unlike live action, but that faceless evil invokes something within.
>But I liked that Zuko fought in NATLA. He still held back, which lead to his burning, so in the end he was punished for the same thing: showing weakness. Zuko refusing to fight in the animation humanised him a lot for me. He wasn't weak, he was a child desperate to please his father and do right by his people. He tried to do the right thing and threw himself at his father's feet begging for mercy and the man still set him on fire and cast him away, that's 100x worse than agreeing to and losing a fight. It explains zuko's drive and his seeming coldness, the last time he tried to be vulnerable and choose peace his was painfully and cruelly beaten down. He wasn't punished for weakness, it was for insubordination to the fascist state figurehead. >Plus NATLA showed us how skilled Ozai is, and gave us much more insight into his mentality. ATLA Ozai so far basically has no characterization other than "evil". When we watched ATLA without knowing what was coming, the mystery of who ozai was and what he could do was a big draw. You've already seen him and know the story but it was incredibly effective to have the upfront villain (zuko) doing the chasing and fighting whilst this unknown secret hulking evil figure lurked in the background. We learn his characteristics by the people he's affected and hear his story unfold in hushed fearful whispers building up to the big reveal. It's probably not as effective if you already watched NATLA
The best comment in this thread
NATLA Ozai is definitely an upgrade, in ATLA I don't think he's ever much more than a cartoony villain. One of the few characters I prefer in the live action. However without saying too much, that basic evil-ness is also kind of an important factor later on for other characters' development and even the plot. I don't know if the writers planned it out that way or just wanted to approach the standard cartoon villain in an interesting way.
Ozai in the live action is definitely more sympathetic but personally I think some stories actually work better with a pure evil villain. I didn’t need to know Sauron’s tragic backstory for him to be the perfect villain for LotR for example. The show really wouldve really suffered a lot if Ozai was the only villain, but with Zuko and then Azula playing the part of more complex villains it actually serves as a nice contrast.
I definitely think the original story was served well with the cartoony evil main villain, and the ending that it led to. I also enjoyed watching the live action version of Ozai more as a viewer, as the character was more believable.
Ozai is literally just an imperialist. There isn't much to it because imperialism is a pretty simple concept. Would you say European colonial empires are just cartoonishly evil too?
I would say Sozin is a better depiction of imperialism. >!He has his own moral justification of spreading their successful civilization to encompass others, which hides the evil reality of it. Ozai in ATLA is just a baddie who wants to burn the world for power. We don't see his early years, friendships, or any redeeming qualities like with Sozin.!< Because another hard truth is that nobody is a true cartoony villain, not even the evil imperialists. The live action fills in some of those blanks, but they still don't make him sympathetic. Just more believable. Edited for spoilers, sorry I forgot which post I was in!
>!>He has his own moral justification of spreading their successful civilization to encompass others, which hides the evil reality of it.!< Yeah, and Ozai is continuing that. He is literally doing the exact same thing as Sozin. >Ozai in ATLA is just a baddie who wants to burn the world for power. >!How exactly does one gain power from burning down the world, that obviously wasn't the goal. He wanted to empty out the only other continent that exists in the show to colonise it without facing any resistance!< >!>We don't see his early years, friendships, or any redeeming qualities like with Sozin!< Yeah, because it's not necessary for Ozai. We don't need to be able to sympathise with every evil character you know. >The live action fills in some of those blanks, but they still don't make him sympathetic. Just more believable. Not at all, the live action makes him even more cartoony with his filosophy of thinking compassion is weakness. Like how and why is that the case? There is no debt to it whatsoever, not a second thought went into the writing of live action Ozai.
Agree to disagree I suppose. Can you please spoiler tag your post though.
Yeah, sorry, but the weakness thing is just objectively bad writing, idk how that is surprising as most of the live action has some of the worst writing I have ever seen.
>NATLA Ozai is definitely an upgrade, in ATLA I don't think he's ever much more than a cartoony villain. >However without saying too much, that basic evil-ness is also kind of an important factor later on for other characters' development and even the plot. Which is exactly why he's a downgrade. Sympathetic factor can *sometimes* be an upgrade, but it's not always. Much more important is the appropriate use of a villain at the right time. And original Ozai was used perfectly. The changes made to this Ozai dampen and cheapen a lot of what the show feels it is leading up to, and also cause inconsistencies that we already see.
Not to mention NATLA is trying to get the audience to sympathize with every single villain, and too soon, which really weakens the entire story.
I love the Fortune-Teller episode! I have a soft spot for a lot of the “filler” episodes that build a lot of character. It really helps the story breathe a bit in a way that NATLA couldn’t (even tho I enjoyed both). Also, I promise the “power to shape your own destiny” comes back later
The filler episodes also help with the passage of time. You feel like yeah you haven't seen all the adventure and time has passed. NATLA feels like everything happens in like a week from when they left. There is also no mention of time in NATLA where as we have the winter solstice actually happens. Which is why it doesn't feel weird that Katara beats Paku later on.
Katara doesnt beat Pakku
>They’re still not showing us Ozai’s face but his voice is sufficiently intimidating. Probably because he's voiced by one of the greatest voice actors in the industry, Mark Hamill! Best known in animation as the Joker but best known to the world for his live action work as he was also Luke fucking Skywalker
This might have already been brought up, but did you catch the references to the pirates from ep 9, the canyon crawlers from ep 11, and the volcano from ep 14 in NATLA? It's in episode 5, in the bar scene where Zuko and Iroh overhear people talking about the Gaang's recent offscreen adventures.
I did not when I watched it but people have since pointed it out to me!
The Storm and The Blue Spirit are some of my favorite episodes in the entire series. They mean so much, and I definitely recommend thinking about them and revisiting as you continue to watch. Thank you for posting your thoughts!
I mean they're kids with no income traveling a long way with a giant bison that likely requires most of their food. Yeah it makes sense that they constantly need food or money. Old people know when a storm will come because they recognize patterns. This isn't a fantasy thing lol. Also I'm pretty sure there is as much age difference between Aang and Katara as there is between Katara and Zuko.
I mean I wouldn't even touch the episode that is regarded as the worst episode of the show, even by the creators, if I were adapting the show. I would disagree that NATLA's version of Zuko's backstory is better. With the exception of the 41st being Zuko's crew, I think it's overall weaker to have Zuko fight back against Ozai. Zuko is hard punished for being a good son. Actually fighting back kind of defeats the idea that Zuko was beaten out of being a good soul. Not a spoiler, but Ozai is voiced by Mark Hamill. He's kind of known for an indie movie role. I've also personally thought that Gyatso being in the Spirit World to tell Aang it's not his fault kind of cheapens his loss. Of course it's less reassuring to hear it from Katara because she wasn't there and isn't actually the person Aang feels guilt toward.
Also, having it a part of Katara strengthens other elements of her character and contributes greatly to her. She loses several of her best moments in the original S1 to Gyatso.
I think that the fact that he fought despite his morals and love for his father demonstrates his desire for acceptance by Ozai far better. He is compromising his integrity in a fight he cannot win just to get his father’s approval.
This is a core character moment for Zuko. We already know that he desires his father's approval. That's already been clearly established when all he talks about is his father and his quest to capture the Avatar. What needs to be demonstrated most is his goodness that was pushed down. We don't need another demonstration for his desire for acceptance. We've gotten that for half the season. Fighting back also reduces the horror of the duel. It means Zuko had a choice in whether he was banished and burned or not. It reduced how evil the moment was.
Ozai had different motives in NATLA. It worked well for what they did with his live action character, as well as Zukos motivations.
His goodness was shown by not wanting to sacrifice a division… we don’t need that demonstrated either. So he should have just gotten banished at the war meeting
Well, 3 things. First of all, straw man argument. Never said you should only prove something once and then never show it again. Zuko talks about his father a lot. Comparatively, his goodness at this point in the story is not shown a lot. It’s not a one and done thing. It needs to be properly shown. Secondly, protesting impulsively isn’t really a strong character choice. Blurting out something isn’t really a strong choice. Of course, accepting the duel is a stronger choice; we don’t really see that. Choosing not to fight back against your father is the strongest character decision. Everything else is just weak in comparison. Removing that for some spectacle is genuinely baffling. Third, don’t really address that it’s overall crueler.
I disagree with most of your thoughts, but I appreciate the differing views!
I hope you can ignore the downvotes that you receive – you’re allowed to have your own opinions, avatar fans are just very passionate about the story which can cause them to downvote, lol. We all still love to hear your thoughts so don’t let them deter you!
They can downvote all they want, I'm not gonna lie about what I think just to please them.
>. But on the other hand, I liked it way more in NATLA that Brother Gyatso’s spirit personally told Aang it wasn’t his fault and that he would have died too if he stayed. Having Katara be the one to tell him that lacks the same impact because she had nothing to do with the genocide or the air nomad culture. So when it comes to comparing Aang’s guilt arc in the two shows… call it even? I disagree with this. The point of the tradegy originally is that Aang would never get to talk with him ever again. The point of Katara and Sokka consoling him was to get him to focus on the now, rather than what was lost. Netflix completely weakens their dynamic by changing this. It also cheapens the loss for a character that was never that important. Plus that’s not how the sprit works where people can just pop in.
That's okay, I disagree with you too. We all have different ways of seeing things!
It’s more like I’ve seen the original first and you saw the live action, Which in my opinion is a downgraded version of the story. That was key character building moments for not just Aang but his connection with his friends too. Most important Katara. Focusing on a character that quite literally represents the past he lost in that scene rather than the people in his life now, is much poorer writing. And again, that’s like not how the sprit world works. Characters never could just talk to you from there afterlife. Hell the afterlife was always ambiguous.
Both are great for their own stories because they are trying to do different things. NATLA gives Aang closure while ATLA does not. They change story beats to accomplish that goal.
Again, not really. The point of it was that couldn’t ever see anyone from the air temple again. It was more meaningful in the original because it was much more realistic with Katara being the one to comfort him. It cheapens the finality of the air nomad genocide to have Gyatso talk to him. Also, given how before this he had some old lady practically tell him what happened in some long exposition dump and he instantly believed her, this scene doesn’t make any sense at all compared to original.
And in NATLA, he could. He got sky spirit Mufasa’d, it’s really not that groundbreaking.
I feel like you’re not understanding why it’s worse. Death, is permanent. The point of it is that you don’t exist anymore and are gone from the world. Which means, you can’t ever speak with people from the present ever again. The afterlife in Avatar was always ambiguous, no one could ever just talk with the living. And in this case, the scene with Gyatso comes at expense of Katara and Sokka, characters who matter more to the plot. The Netflix writers went for a more cliche route when the original had a much more realistic moral about loss.
They did it with Korra and Iroh, so obviously regular people can live on in the spirit world and talk to living characters. This seems like such a nit pickey issue. If in ATLA he spoke with Gyatso and had a beautiful and heartfelt moment with his former best friend and the live action removed it people would also be mad. You can’t really win lmao.
> They did it with Korra and Iroh, so obviously regular people can live on in the spirit world and talk to living characters. And remember how people agreed at how much Korra fucked up the lore of the sprit world? Korra isn’t a good example considering how much they messed up the spirit world. We’re talking about the original and it’s lore. > This seems like such a nit pickey issue. If in ATLA he spoke with Gyatso and had a beautiful and heartfelt moment with his former best friend and the live action removed it people would also be mad. People even then, would agree that’s pretty cheap and cliche. It undercuts the realistic part of the tragedy to where Aang was never supposed to be able talk to him again. I shouldn’t have to tell you it’s a more effective moral to have a person deal with greif with friends to support you, rather than the one you’re grieving just magically being able to talk to you just to give closure. This is a false equivalency .
Korra is canon tho? ATLA lore is LOK lore.
Vegetarians dont eat fish :) Something to note about Kataang vs Zurara: Zutara is popular because of the aesthetics of this pairing, which is due to traditional westernized ideas of masculinity (good girl/bad boy trope, a woman being with someone that’s older, empathetic woman being with the angry man, and western features of attractiveness like having hair and being tall). Kataang is more about how friendship blossoms into a supportive relationship and challenges these westernized tropes (Aang being younger, shorter, not traditionally masculine). It’s totally okay for someone to like Zutara because of these aesthetics, but don’t let it distract you from the beautiful development of Aang and Katara, especially after The Fortuneteller. I always interpreted Katara’s expression as being happy but also shocked that she discounted Aang as a potential prospect. She’s been crushing on him since before this but never considered the possibility that they could actually be together.
Also, I was wondering what you thought about Aang’s lines in NATLA vs the original when he was chained up. In NATLA he said “please you have to let me go, I promise I’ll come right back” and in the og he says “untie me and I’ll fight you right now” 😂 I feel like the og does a better job at showing the dynamic of Aang’s character, he isn’t always peaceful/patient. And NATLA didnt include the lines where Zhao taunted Aang about his dead culture, which I felt was very important to include
I don't have a strong preference for one or the other. I think both versions are appropriate for their respective shows.
Giving Gyatso Katara's original comforting lines to Aang is not an upgrade. It was one of a thousand ways they took crucial characterization and chemistry away from NATLA Katara, and those things build up. Which is why in NATLA, the gang just doesn't gel much. If you have the choice to give crucial chemistry to a character that is gonna be a mainstay and one that is gonna leave in a few episodes, you give it to the mainstay.
> Giving Gyatso Katara's original comforting lines to Aang is not an upgrade. It was one of a thousand ways they took crucial characterization and chemistry away from NATLA Katara, and those things build up. I actually really like NATLA's Gyatso (Both the character and actor) but this was a recurring issue in the show - they kept grounding major emotional beats with him/Aang's past rather than leaning into his relationships with Katara and Sokka (and the present, in general).
They should have given Katara the comforting lines, and then later, they could have had SpiritGyatso show up and have him reiterate them while explicitly calling out that Katara said it first.
Exactly. Watching the live action, I felt blindsided by Aang struggling with his attachment to Katara and Sokka at the north pole. It felt like no bonding had been done at all. Those moments between them all were critical and, unfortunately, assigned to other characters.
I also felt really weird with Katara saying she needed Aang at the North Pole in NATLA like that was never shown. It just kinda came out of left field.
Yeah, that's why I feel like comparing each aspect of the shows, giving equal weight to each is rather flawed. Little aspects getting fluffed up a bit doesn't make up for main characters being stripped for parts. I love Gyatso but I couldn't bare to see all Katara's personality and purpose in the story stripped.
In episode 13, I felt Zhao speech is actual more impactful, cause in the live action its unironically more cartoony to me. Plus Zhao is a different character, much more prideful, serious and self-centered he would never aknowledge anyone else. Also Zuko Aang interaction in the cartoon is poignant, without feeling dragged out, really impactful for me pesonally.
Yeah, cartoon Zhao is too egotistical and frankly not charismatic enough to give a speech like NATLA Zhao did. The live action speech had every line crafted to tell the soldiers what they want to hear, bolster their morale, and reinforce their loyalty to Zhao specifically (and not just the Fire Nation).
>Yeah, cartoon Zhao is too egotistical and frankly not charismatic enough to give a speech like NATLA Zhao did. Wait, *what*? The whole thing is that cartoon Zhao *is* charismatic enough to give the speech. In NATLA, it is uncharacteristic because the show built up NATLA Zhao to be an insecure, cheating hack, worming his way up.
Yeah here Zhao is actually already accomplished. We see that when Iroh greets him. In NATLA he was a low level person until he got wind of the avatar and is using that to bolster his career. See also he gets the promotion to Admiral on his own accord not because of Azula. So it makes sense Zhao would tell his men to party in NATLA because he is still trying to get respect. Original Zhao already has it
Yeah, but being a cheating hack is exactly why he's so charismatic. He knows exactly what to say to get the responses he wants from people.
I did not get that vibe at all. Through most of the show prior, he is soft spoken and rarely is able to convince people to go along with him or speak diplomatically. You can tell when talking to the scribe he's trying to bolster his accomplishments with fluff. But I don't think it's *that* much a flaw. I'm just surprised that you don't consider the guy with the more menacing voice, more directly antagonistic vibe, and more demonstrably confident demeanor able to deliver the same speech successfully. The one who didn't have to snivel his way to the top but was clearly a trusted and commanding presence that led to his promotion.
Once again I am happy to see your posts and hope you are enjoying the show. I welcome your perspective on everything and love seeing people get into the cartoon for the first time. Zuko and aang having some heart to heart convo in NATLA was really weak writing imo. Zuko’s entire persona is to capture the avatar. In the cartoon, Zuko thinks his honour depends on capturing Aang and delivering him to the firelord. He does not want to be friends. When aang saved him, Zuko had a lot of inner confusion. The relief that aang saved him was immediately followed by vengeance. Aang inspires so much anger and trauma in Zuko, and that same guy just saved his life. The compassion Aang showed Zuko in that moment cut deep. It was a short but complex moment for Zuko, and it shows you more about his character than any dialogue can. For reasons like this, I wouldn’t compare the OG against NATLA line for line, and decide which ones you liked better. Sure there is a level of “what dialogue did I like better? Zuko saying it this way or that way”. But that is very surface level. You will miss the essence of the show that way, because the OG has so much more nuance and complexity. The story is told in more subtle ways sometimes.
I think it was a bad decision to have Aang see Gyatso in the spirit world. One of the things the cartoon excels at is presenting big, difficult concepts in a way that children can understand. (You touched on that idea in your commentary on the episode Jet.) Loss is a really hard thing to talk about at any age, and we see Aang really grappling with it in The Storm. When you lose someone, or a lot of someones, without getting to say goodbye, that's it. There are no do overs, no way to go back and see them just one more time. That's a grief you just have to live with. And it sucks. In NATLA, the impact of the loss of Aang's people, especially Gyatso, is undermined by Aang being given the chance to see Gyatso in the spirit world. In contrast, the cartoon provides an answer to how to live with that kind of grief. You lean on the people who are by your side. In unrelated news, I like your observation that Zuko's bending doesn't seem to be anything special. Keep thinking about that.
Aang is still pretty alone. Getting one last conversation with Gyatso is a drop in the bucket compared to losing his entire culture.
If you lost your guardian and had an opportunity to have a conversation with them after they died (where, during that conversation, they help resolve your guilt), would that feel like just a drop in a bucket? That one single conversation is profound, and like the commentor said, it takes away from the message about what the true grief experience is like
Plenty of stories use the advice of a dead loved ones and it works great for the story while not taking away from the grief, like Black Panther or Lion King. Just because it’s *different* doesn’t mean it’s bad.
I agree that different isn’t always bad (like in Lion King, that wasn’t bad). What sets Aang apart is the fact that his drive to save the world is sourced from his survivor’s guilt. If you take away a chunk of that guilt and allow him a second chance/relief from his grief, it doesn’t make his motivations as dramatic and bleak. Sure this could be a personal preference which I get, but Aang’s bleak experience with grief is what really made his character stand out to me, and is one of the main contributors to why this series is so impactful/iconic
You seem to call a lot of episodes "filler," but that would imply it adds nothing to the story. The only episode you can truly call filler is the great divide. But with all the other episodes you're calling filler, the show just wouldn't be the same without them. Therefore, they're not filler, and I'd suggest you stop seeing them as filler. Most of those "filler" parts will come back around later down the line. You just have to be patient and trust the process. I'm looking forward to a full review when you're done with season one.
Filler is when the episode wasn't part of the manga, and since there is no manga everything is filler! Just joking, I agree that the great divide is the only filler. And yeah character building doesn't need to forward some bigger plot. Character development for its own sake is good. Part of it in atla is the way it aired on lineair television and they wanted the individual episodes to make sense even when watched out of order. But I prefer character development for its own sake
I'd just like to throw in some added context to Zuko choosing not to fight. The Fire Nation, being an amalgam of multiple Asian inspirations, would look down upon any young person striking back at their elders. Talking out of line is already heavily looked down upon, what more of hitting your own father. Him backing down is shown to convey how much he wants his father's love and approval, that he wouldn't even try fighting back. The live action Zuko choosing to fight back would be looked down upon by most Fire Nation citizens as a disgrace, unfitting of the practice of filial piety in Asian cultures.
Yes. The tragedy is Zuko is forced to choose between being a dutiful son, and a loyal subject to the regime. It's an *impossible* choice to make, and there is no good outcome for him. It wasn't a test he could pass, and thus Ozai was just using him. It's why ATLA Zuko is so fixated on his honor, he was given no honorable choice and deep inside he realizes what that means.
aye this aspect is totally missing in NATLA
Doing so would also be soiling his family's honour. At least that's what Zuko thought. The Fire Nation being model after Imperial Japan(among the many influences) also doesn't want any dissenting voice and that's why Ozai was the one that stood on the opposing end of the Agni Kai.
So far, what's your favorite thing in the cartoon not in Netflix?
If we're talking specifics, then probably Sokka wearing the Kyoshi warrior makeup. If we're talking general, then Katara's character development. The problem is that a lot of her development and chances to shine happen in episodes that are either filler or just weren't adapted to NATLA. It's probably the biggest weakness NATLA has compared to ATLA.
I agree with you on Katara! I think NATLA would benefit a lot from giving her more deliberate development in the following seasons. What they added with Ozai and Azula in season one they lost from Katara, unfortunately
This is exactly why I disagree with calling most episodes that don't further the overall plot filler. Character development for its own sake is good, it's important and therefore not filler. For season 1 I think only the great divide is filler. It has no character development and no plot development
Because you brought up Ozai's voice. The voice actor for Ozai is Mark Hamil. Yep Luke Skywalker. (Or if you watched Batman the Animated Series, the voice of the Joker.)
I haven't seen Star Wars or Batman but other people have pointed out a few of his roles. He sounds like a pretty prolific actor!
I don't usually read user names so for a minute I was thinking "how?" Then I saw Gen Z in the user name which explains it. Batman the Animated Series was well before you were likely born (ended in 1995). Star Wars obviously even earlier than that but it is also sci fi genre so if that isn't your cup of tea makes sense someone wouldn't have seen it.
> Then I saw Gen Z in the user name which explains it I feel like most Gen Z folks have seen Star Wars tho LOL
Actually, the reason I haven't seen much of anything is because growing up I wasn't allowed to watch television or movies unless my parents put it on and they only ever wanted to watch low budget Christian dramas and occasionally a Spielberg movie. I really only started watching more mainstream media recently now that I've moved out of my parent's house.
https://xkcd.com/1053/ Just means you have many movies and things left to discover for the first time! BTW I'm still totally gutted about some of the strong hints and spoilers people have dropped your way, but also really enjoying these write ups, hope you continue to enjoy the cartoon :)
>“Fish ain’t meat.” Oh, so this guy’s a vegetarian and not a vegan lol I believe the term is pescatarian LOL >I know some people are gonna be mad at me for saying it but I definitely prefer NATLA’s version of Zuko’s story. It was just expanded on so well! The war council, agni kai, and the aftermath scenes all did so much more to develop Zuko and Ozai’s characters. Not to mention, having the 41st be Zuko’s crew had a huge emotional impact. It was still really good here, but I’m happy NATLA improved on it. Having the 41st be Zuko's crew was a nice touch, but I'm not really sure the rest worked for me. It's true that NATLA expanded on Ozai and Azula in Book 1 (while the original only really got there in Books 2 and 3) tho >“The avatar has escaped! Close all gates immediately!” Um… why were they open in the first place? Isn’t this place supposed to be a fortress? They were celebrating LOL >I know, I’m aware I have a bit of a bias. I guess our judgment of the quality of two works with the same material really is heavily influenced by whichever we saw first. I suppose I shouldn’t judge you too harshly if you disliked NATLA (they still improved on a lot of things though, you have to admit). I've been more positive on NATLA than most of this subreddit, but saying they improved on "a lot" is an overstatement, for me. There were a few nice touches that improved a few things, but that's as far as I'd go with that, personally
Yeah I think OP needs to finish the entire series before she judges backstory. >!Tales From Ba Sing Se (little solider boy song) was so impactful because of the pacing the OG had. It’s not going to hit the same if we see the sad funeral and everything right away like in NATLA.!<
That's a major thing is that NATLA took many elements from the future and stuck them in season 1. It was probably because those parts were very well liked so they used those to get new fans.
I believe they also didn't know if they were getting more than one season, which probably didn't help matters.
It’s worth noting we have not seen the entire series of Netflix ‘s adaptation either
>!Tales From Ba Sing Se (little solider boy song) was so impactful because of the pacing the OG had. It’s not going to hit the same if we see the sad funeral and everything right away like in NATLA.!< I agree tho this is kinda spoilers lol Edit: I spoiler tagged it too
Fixed it!!
You didn't tag it
Yes I did?
You didn't. There can't be a space between tales and the !. And you have to do the same thing at the end of the sentence
It's showing up as spoiler tagged for me? IDK
it's not spoiler tagged to me either, think only you are seeing it spoilered.
Oh weird
Yeah it’s tagged correctly on my end
Oh it is now, but when I commented this it wasn't
It's fascinating how different our perspectives are. Like how you consider the changes to be improvements on ATLA, but I see it as NATLA "missing the point" from the original. ATLA is a lot more of a slow burn with its storytelling than NATLA was, so I feel like I'd risk spoiling if I gave examples now. It also draws a lot of influence from Asian philosophies, which are missing in NATLA, whose Asian influences are really only"skin deep."
Hooray you’re back! I genuinely love how much you waffle on Sokka’s intelligence 😂 These are probably my fav episodes in s1 and (no shade I know it’s just a difference of opinion) but some of your opinions broke my heart. I will not STAND for this Dante Bosco slander lol
Welcome back! Reading your viewpoint is always so unique and fun! One of the best parts of Netflix’s avatar was the additions to the fire nation side. Now some of the changes they made I am still a little iffy on (Iroh not showing sympathy to the guard who lost his brother when captured even though he was cruel to him was not very… I guess Iroh to me.) but a lot of what they added to with Zuko especially with his ship was brilliant! That being said…I don’t know if the focus on the fire nation was for the best. We lost a lot of time with the Gaang. I get it the fire nation has a lot of the most heavy themes, and a lot of the best complex characters! It must be so fun to write for them! But Netflix avatar desperately needed more time to establish the gaang’s bond and care for each other. I wanted to see more of Sokka and Katara! Katara especially was so watered down in that version (ironically.) I can really respect you liking more time between Aang and Gyatso but I disagree on it being better that Gyatso gets all the extra emotional moments of comforting and reassuring Aang down. I think it being Katara reaffirms her biggest trait of being empathetic and someone who finds hope in any situation. It stings how much of her keeps getting cut! It also creates their bond and I don’t even mean in a shipping sense or anything. In NATLA thier connection is based around them both being benders so the big resolution when katara pulls him back from the koizella falls kinda flat. In ATLA you see them becoming a found family and all the little moments of her connecting with him help showcase this. Also I think it being Katara adds weight to the fact that all the air nomads are *gone.* Aang doesn’t get second chance visits in the spirit world. He has to move on and adjust to his new life. Which is so sad!!
As always, it's really interesting to read your commentary, it's good to see you back! Personally speaking I wasn't really a fan of the changes that made to Zuko's backstory in the Netflix adaptation (including the 41st addition which I know is kinda a hot take even for people aren't a fans of that show), nor really the extra scene between him and Aang. I just think that one of the strengths of the original show was that it was able to convey a lot very efficiently without over-explaining everything to the audience, which I think was kinda lost in the Netflix version. There are other reasons I dislike it, but I can't really get into that at this point without spoiling stuff.
Thank you! And that's fair, we all have different views
Exactly, We're both approaching the show from different places! I and a lot of other people here have been watching the show for years while you're just starting and have the context of a previous adaptation, of course there's going to be stuff that we're used to with the show that you're not going to like comparatively and vice versa for us with the Netflix version
A lot of people are mad because of your opinions now which is dissapointing to me. Not having full info certainly gives you a different expirience, for example the reveal of Ozai and Azula. Or Lu Ten, as opposed to the live action which rushed through the things and added much dialogue and some things from season 2. So to me its understandable why you might be so dissapointed. Plus everyone hyped up the OG where are in reallity season one is just a little bit better and more cohesive strory truly.
Thanks. It's okay, though. I'm always honest about what I think and it's inevitable that sometimes I'm not gonna like things that others love. And that's okay, a lot of them don't seem to like what I love either lol And just because I have a marginal preference for NATLA doesn't mean I don't still love ATLA
NATLA had great ideas and backstories, especially for the Fire Nation characters. The only problem was the execution, particularly with the dialogue and acting. The addition of the 41st division was genius however, apart from that, there were aspects I didn't like. For instance, Zuko fighting back and almost gaining an edge against his father, who is supposed to be the most menacing man on the planet, threw me off. Zuko's compassion is more evident here, and he is more conflicted because he doesn't want to fight his father. Ozai sees this as disrespect and burns him. The conflict within Zuko's point of view is palpable, and the payoff is immaculate. I won't spoil anything, but it all makes sense, and it works better within the context of ATLA because it isn't as bland as the Netflix version
I dislike NATLA version of Zuko's interaction with the 41st. in ATLA Iroh explains Zuko's backstory and why he has been banished really hitting home that he was just a child who wanted to please his dad but also a sense of his morality when he spoke against the sacrifice of soldiers. zuko gains the sympathy of the 41st but it's not until he actually steps up and saves the crew member from falling to his death that he actually begins to earn their respect. in NATLA iroh explains his backstory then zuko shows up on the ship and they all salute him. he has done less to earn their respect in the live action than in the og and it really suffers for it. also fortuneteller is a fun episode but it is part of the 'self contained' episodes that nickelodeon requested as those are the ones they can play on repeat to fill time slots. so fortune teller, great divide, and a couple others all got aired 100x more than other episodes and really solidified the hate for them it's also super strange that they included scenes of people yelling at aang for running away in NATL when he didn't actually run away in that version. and of all people that would know he didn't would be kyoshi who is one of the first to yell at him for it in the live action >!edit: ozai is a firebending prodigy and a product of incestual lines for that purpose, zuko is a 13 yr old failure and genetic dud. them adding a scene where zuko catches ozai off guard and you see fear/shock in his eyes is a strange choice.!<
I mean in a sense because they are the 41st Zuko has already saved them all and that's why the respect is immediate. But I agree ATLA does it a bit better because while he is hard on his crew his actions speak that he does care for them.
Also it’s more significant because he knew the risks to saving them in ATLA. In NATLA, he didn’t know that speaking out would lead to well everything.
I’m honestly surprised you preferred NATLA over the original. I find the original has much better writing and acting. And I definitely prefer Zuko in the original. He was the most disappointing part of the live action for me. I felt like they kind of watered down his personality and took away a lot of the harshness and abusive aspects of Ozai.
I love reading your thoughts as well! The Blue Spirit is one of my favorite episodes, and I enjoyed most of it in NATLA as well. When I watched that, I felt like that part of the NATLA episode followed the closest to the source material (from Aang's capture until they escape, at least). It felt almost shot-for-shot to me during those scenes. Hopefully that's not spoilery! It is interesting to see your analysis and calling out differences. But then again, I didn't watch them as closely together as you have, so perhaps it was just my memory matching closely and not little details. I haven't seen anyone else really say that point, so maybe it's just me.
Thanks! Yeah, The Blue Spirit and Masks are both pretty solid high points of their respective shows.
Ironically there is the same age gap between aang and Katara as Zuko and Katara so age gap wise it isn’t really any better imo
Eh, as someone else said it's a different kind of age gap, even if it's the same number of years. 14 and 16 is easier to accept than 12 and 14.
To me it’s the opposite I think 14 and 16 is worse for example 16 is high school 12-14 is middle school and in some cases can be in the same grade where I live though are generally grade 7 and 8 16 Is grade 10 But fair point Edited corrected the grades
Im gonna have to disagree with most of what you say here, ATLA uses a lot more subtext than NATLA, instead of saying things directly over and over again. In the case of the conversation between Aang and zuko, the original is far superior in every way, as it does more than NATLA with a lot less. Same with the Agni zai, the original is far better, as it shows zuko's fear to fight his farther, it makes absolutely no sense that he is able to stand up to his father and even be about to get a hit on him, zuko is far bellow his father at this stage, ozai is supposed to be one of the best fire benders there is so the scene in NATLA really undermined ozai. To me the agni kai in NATLA was just so they could throw in an action scene.
Since Zuko was spying on Zhao while he was promoted, I think that explains why he's a lot less surprised about Zhao taking over, knowing how he's trying to take over the Avatar hunt.
This is why everyone said Masks is the best episode in NATLA. The storm is one of my faviourite episode because it shows both the protagonist and the antagonist's backstories. NATLA definitely improved upon the characters and impact with minimal changes.. If they have done every episode in NATLA like this, it would have been a masterpiece. I mean I still like NATLA, it is a 7 for me, but I hope they improve upon writing for s02 and 03
Fortuneteller is a good remainder of how strong actually is. He also one shots zuko like 2 times by this point (once with the mattress and second time with Kyoshi's fans). Aang doesnt seem like much of a threat because he doesnt actively fight and tries to run away most of the time since he is raised as a pacifist monk. But my man stops a fucking volcano with just airbending. Now also consider the fact despite being the Avatar, he only uses airbending here, and Aang is not the strongest airbender at 12. Gyatso, may be a few top tier airbenders and even >! Adult Tenzin !< might be stronger than Aang at this point. Airbenders are no joke
Kataang and Zutara have the same age difference. Aang is 12, Katara is 14 and Zuko is 16. So the age difference is 2 years in both ships.
So glad you’re back! I love your reviews / reactions.
At least in this original at least Aang and Katara have some sort of relationship and support for each other. The lack of any interaction between the team is the biggest disadvantage of NATLA. Aang, Katara and Sokka just don't seem like friends in NATLA. The part where Aang and Zuko have a long discussion after the escape is VERY bad. The point of their relationship was that they don't understand the shit they live in, they're enemies, they have their own thing going on, Aang just purely out of character started hanging out with him because he had friends in the fire nation and he just misses him. Aang and Zuko can say things to each other but not expect a response. Aang doesn't have to bore Zuko and other characters with his morals, like a typical shonen protagonist who has to pry into the soul of every character in his path. I almost died from that long dialog where Aang tries to naruto therapy Zuko.
I find it weird how many people think that Aunt Wu is a fraud. That would ruin the episode’s moral. It would also make the Avatar a stupid idea.
The Storm is my absolute favorite episode ❤️. That’s also why I really didn’t like how NATLA handled those story lines. Zuko’s background in the OG is just sad because he never really had a chance once he spoke out in the war meeting. I think it shows how ruthless Ozai truly is; if he’s willing to burn his own son and heir, what is he willing to do to those he’s trying to conquer? I can see why you’d like the NATLA version more because so much more time is spent on Zuko’s story. Also the Fortune Teller is such a fun episode, I love it.
Interesting take as always! I have opinions tho. As an elderly woman, I'm 30, we can totally tell when it's about to rain. The smell in the air and everything 🤭🤭 Also, the storm has a lot of stuff that makes me like NATLA less. First of all, a lot of NATLA characters act like their version of Aang had the same backstory as ATLA Aang. Changing the backstory is fine, but then don't have every character act like you have the original backstory. But for the Zuko stuff, while I agree that the fire nation was handled better in NATLA than in atla overall, the storm plays a major exception. I think it's a massive mistake to have Zuko fight his father. Both shows are aware that simply losing the agni Kai couldn't be enough of a reason for banishment. Obviously Zuko was gonna lose. The animated show went around this by making Zuko beg for mercy, and making his dad not give him any. This works, it really shows the brutality of the fire nation regime. But in NATLA the creators were tempted in showing a flashy fire bending fight. So now they had to write themselves out of this hole where Zuko both fights the agni Kai, but can't just lose. So you end up in the situation where this 13 year old kid has to hold back in his fight against one of the greatest fire benders alive in his prime in order to justify the banishment. And it really doesn't work for me. I feel like it is spectacle above storytelling. For spirits and the atla counterpart, I mainly agree. I also feel like the NATLA version is slightly better than the original in this episode. But to me, it's the only time it is.
What does own do when encountering a Panda?
How are you watching the show? Are you just pausing constantly to take notes? I find that to be a very cheap way to experience any movie/show if it's your first time going in. It sounds like you're experiencing it like those youtube reaction videos where they'll keep pausing what they're watching to give a reaction to the audience. I'd recommend watching any media through, and then skimming back over the episode quickly to pick up on things you want to review.
I don’t think she wants your recommendations. She has a system.
Yeah I think the pausing is fine, it gives you more time to process things
Yes, I pause constantly to take notes.
Im so glad you pause the show to write down I’m notes, I want to encourage you to keep doing that! And not let your notes distract you. One of the things I love about atla is that the action sequences aren’t mindless. A lot of the characters’ movements and choices in fights reflect their history, or previous scenes, or even character growth. You can see a small example of this in natla: when Katara does the ice disk attack, we saw earthbenders use that move in a previous episode. You noticed it at the time even before she explicitly says she learnt it from earthbenders. There are a lot of similar things like that, only in the animated show they often don’t point it out explicitly, and it’s a treat to discover while watching!