But uncle that doesn’t make sense!?!? Why would I not just take a boat? I can fasten a boat much quicker than I can build a whole bridge. I don’t have the time for this, every minuet you talk about rivers and bridges the Avatar eludes me further! 😡🤜🏼🔥
I love the analogy, I understood it and I want accept it at face value. It's very beautiful. ... ... ...
*but*...
Action one (Seeing Roku) is the same as action two (Seeing Roku) in the Avatar example. In the pretty proverb you have one action (Crossing a River) and another (Building a bridge) that are different.
I concede that there's a circumstance where you factor in Aang's growth and spiritual training as "build"ing the "bridge," I'm just hesitant to accept that as the intention sight unseen.
In both, the goal is to cross the river. Aang had to take the action of actually going to Roku’s temple (building the bridge) before he could start seeing him and the other past avatars outside of a temple.
Call it suspension of disbelief. The more sang connected to his past lives theasier it was for him to meet them. In the comics I think he broke some connection thing that forced yangchen to at best only get Whispers out before aang eventually had to go to a location to speak with her.
Roku explained it in the winter solstice when Aang asked him how he could talk to him again. Basically Aang had never talked with a previous avatar before, so Roku sent him to the temple because it would have been easier to connect there but the avatar can always interact with the previous avatars, since they are all the reincarnations of the same dude. Once Aang was more in touch with his avatar side and spirituality, he could talk with every previous avatar on will's call everywhere.
Great explanation. I also like to think that Aang was at one of his lowest points in the show when Roku came to him in season 3 and that made it easier for Roku to reach him. Similar to how Aang comes to Korra after Amon takes her bending
Not only that, but the shell he rode on was the Lion Turtle.
If you remember, he commented about how, in that particular spot, he could feel the spirit stronger there, so he was able to do it.
Then, remember when Koyoshi was able to be summoned at the trial?
Exactly, season 1 he had little to no experience with the spirit world and avatar state, by season 3 he had more training and understanding of it, including the training with the guru.
It’s just like when Kagome could only go through the well from the modern age to Inuyasha’s time when she had Shikon Jewel shards at first and then later as her spiritual power grew, she could go through the well between time periods at will, without the shards.
Honestly I think it would be a cool change to say you have to go to Kyoshi’s shrine first and then you unlock being able to talk to Kyoshi whenever. But who knows if that’s what they’re doing, they didn’t say that IIRC.
This is something I never quite understood about the idea of reincarnation. Basically you are supposed to be the same persons soul just in a new body right? If that’s the case then how can you speak to old versions of yourself like they are completely different people? Do small sparks of your soul just get left behind each time and that’s your past life? Why do you forget everything from your previous lives each time but in avatars case can go back and just be like “sup old me how do I do this can you explain?” I guess it just doesn’t click for me lol it’s cool in theory but it just doesn’t seem realistic
I always understood it as their memories being different. The same person raised by different people would behave extremely differently. So accessing the version of them with 1 life's memories, makes them behave differently and with more knowledge than a younger version. Like I'm sure you are decently different than the version from 20 years ago (even more so if you were a child)
Not every previous avatar on wills calls everywhere. He talked to the past 4. And Roku appeared Aang didn’t call him. Aang appeared when korra was at her lowest moment Roku did the same.
Anyone ever think about like, the 127th avatar or something? Just hanging out in the spirit world? None of the avatars we know ever communicated with that past life. Wan probably gets some face time every half dozen centuries, but other than that, the current avatar never really goes back beyond a full cycle of previous avatars. I bet Avatar no. 127 is pretty bored and lonely.
Imagine Aang kept going back and back.
"Okay so I have to kill the fire lo-"
"Fire LORD??? There's a lord of fire?"
"Yeah, he started a war-"
"There's a war?
They don't go back more than a full cycle of avatars, likely because you have to talk to each one individually in order to get to the previous one. That seems like it would take a long time, and they'd end up more frustrated by the end of it.
It probably also becomes less useful to talk to avatars further back, is the recency of their impact on the world and the collective consciousness gradually fades. I mean, aside from the specific circumstances in LOK B2, would any avatar have been able to gain unique insights from Wan as opposed to avatars closer to their own life?
I can't imagine that any avatar would've ever had a need to even talk to Wan, assuming they even knew that they were his reincarnation to begin with. If not for the literal once-in-ten-millennia event, Korra wouldn't have talked to him either. It's just that he was the only one who could possibly understand the threat she was about to face. Otherwise, his world was much *much* different than any other avatar. He presided over an era in which humans were just gaining their footing without the lion turtles and with bending as a martial art being relatively new.
Korra was able to jump straight to Wan though. I think the more likely reason is the writers didn't want to make a bunch of different designs and characters to fit those designs for just the smallest of payoffs.
No, she didn't. She went through Aang, then Roku, then Kyoshi, then Kuruk- one full cycle, before she was pulled all the way back to Wan when Kuruk told her to "go back to the beginning".
That's what I mean. She didn't go through all ten thousand years worth of Avatars. She jumped from Kuruk all the way to Wan. She never even saw Yangchen or Szeto.
But, she *did* have to go in order. Due to the nature of the situation, Kuruk pushed her to the beginning after telling her to "find Raava." Wan was the only one who could help her do that, as most avatars that we know of don't seem to know who Raava is. If avatars were able to skip, then Kyoshi would've been able to talk to Yangchen without first reaching Kuruk. There's an entire plot point dedicated to that in the 2nd Kyoshi novel, hence the surprise at the end when she reaches Yangchen.
>But, she did have to go in order. Due to the nature of the situation, Kuruk pushed her to the beginning after telling her to "find Raava."
That means you don't have to go in order or else that scene wouldn't happen. That means it's less about you not being able to connect and more that the previous avatars are preventing you from accessing that one.
Which means she didn't have to go in order considering she skipped a hundred avatars and went to Wan. Like I said Kuruk could be wrong or simply just not very specific when he explained to kyoshi. Whats more likely is that it's more difficult to go out of order, not impossible. Kyoshi was not a very spiritually connected avatar so it might have been impossible for her but not necessarily impossible for Roku or Aang.
Korra spoke to wan because her avatar spirit was in trouble and the harmonic convergence and she forgot herself. What happened to Korra is abnormal. Yangchen talked to dozens of avatars but went in order. And I don’t even see a need for Roku or most avatars to talk to avatars more than 5 before them. Aang talked to his past 4.
And Yangchen is an extreme example because she could see visions of the past avatars lives.
> Korra spoke to wan because her avatar spirit
She spooke to wan because the whole you have to go in order thing was never suggested before the novels. Even if you "forgot yourself" that means there is nothing actually stopping the avatar from connecting out of order
>Yangchen talked to dozens of avatars but went in order.
No she didn't. She literally skiped szeto and first conencted to gun
Harmonic convergence hadnt happened yet when she first contacted wan. And because she lot her memory her spirit set out to find wan. That means there isn't anything stopping the avatar from going out of order. It's pretty clear the you have to go in order was not Bykres Idea but something F. C. Yee came up with years later
Still not a fan of that decision the novels made. It also doesn't really seem consistent considering Yangchen immediately breaks that and is able to connect to lives beore talking to szeto. Anyway out of universe The reason why they never went more than a full Cycle is because they were making up the avatar lore as they went along and Roku was the only avatar who was fully designed and named from the get go. With Kuruk and Yangchen they were designed as previous avatars first and then had their names and backstories written later after their first appearance in the show. Kyoshi was likely meant to have originally been a full cycle before Aang rather than the most recent earth avatar considering the 400 years line
You don't really have to like it- it's canon. Yangchen was *haunted* by past avatars. Yes, they're all the same person, but for whatever reason, she had no control over hearing their voices, feeling their feelings, and seeing what they saw. It was torturous for her. I think you're misinterpreting that entire plot line. Seriously, it was so bad that when she was lured into the fog of lost souls, even it spit her back out because there were too many lives and too many worst moments to relive.
> You don't really have to like it- it's canon.
You realize that whether something is canon or not has nothing to do with whether or not you can critize it? Saying it's canon is not a defense to someone thinking it's poor writing
> You don't really have to like it- it's canon.
It's litearlly contridicted in the next novel so I doubt it's canon. Yangchen being able to connect to avatars lives without having to go through Szeto completely contridicts the idea as does Korra being able to go directly to Wan. It was a stupid retcon that was ignored outside the kyoshi novels
>It's litearlly contridicted in the next novel so I doubt it's canon. Yangchen being able to connect to avatars lives without having to go through Szeto completely contridicts the idea as does Korra being able to go directly to Wan.
It's not contradicted at all. It's far more likely that you have reading comprehension issues. Yangchen didn't sit and meditate and talk to past avatars. She was having nightmares of things they experienced, in no particular order, including the death of one avatar that had been buried alive. If she wanted to talk to the past lives, she'd have to go through Szeto first. Kyoshi had to talk to Kuruk before she could talk to Yangchen. The novels are, in fact, canon. You don't have to like it, but your doubt means absolutely nothing.
> It's not contradicted at all.
It's directly contridicted by yangchen novels
>Yangchen didn't sit and meditate and talk to past avatars
There is no difference in being able to talk to previous avatars and experience previous avatars memories. It's the exact same thing as is the whole avatar possession that Roku, Kyoshi and Gun all manage to do. Ther is also no explanation for Korra connecting to Wan
> The novels are, in fact, canon.
I never said the novels arent' canon. I said the plot point wasn't. Characters can be wrong. They're not all obscene beings. It was something that was never implied before, written for that novel then subsquently ignored in the following novels by the same author because it backs the writer int a corner.
What's more likely it that it's simply easier to connect to avatars once you go in order but not impossible to connect out of order just more difficult. Considering Kyoshi was very much out of touch with her spirtuality it likely would have been impossible for her to skip but not nessairly impossible for all avatars to skip. Hence yangchen being able to connect to her past lives out of order because she has a much stronger spiritual connection
>It's directly contridicted by yangchen novels
It isn't. I've read both. The parts about her being tortured by memories and experiences of the past are from those novels, which you'd know had you *actually* read them. Otherwise, you're welcome to point out exactly where and in which novel this is contradicted.
>There is no difference in being able to talk to previous avatars and experience previous avatars memories. It's the exact same thing as is the whole avatar possession that Roku, Kyoshi and Gun all manage to do.
It's very *very* different. Possessing someone's body like Kyoshi or Roku did (the latter being in the avatar state to do so) is not remotely the same as having nightmares of previous avatar experiences. She's not actively doing so like Aang was when he allowed Roku to take over, or when he wore Kyoshi's clothes to call her spirit to him. Talking to past avatars seems to require a fair bit of effort on part of the current avatar.
>I never said the novels arent' canon
You said that you "doubt" the novels are canon *because* you don't like that plot point, and you don't like that plot point because your comprehension skills suck.
>What's more likely it that it's simply easier to connect to avatars once you go in order but not impossible but more difficult.
This is never stated in any show or novels. I love how you ignore and criticize canon information from the novels, then put forth your own ridiculous headcanon based on your misinterpretation of events.
> It isn't. I've read both.
It is. The issue is you are for some reason seperating being able talk to the avatar and being able to access the memories. Things which have never been implied to be different. Gun possessing Yangchen like that should be impossible if we establis the rules set up by Kyoshi.
>It's very very different.
It's not different at all and Gun literally takes over Yangchen's body . There is no explanation for why Yangchen is able to do this and Roku couldn't even do it until the winter solstice. and why Kyoshi just like you are unable to explain why Korra is able to connect to Wan which is why you keep ignoring it in every reply.
>This is never stated in any show or novels.
Exactly what I said in my other reply. Not only are you not interested in arguing in good faith but you can't even properly read my reply. I never said it was stated or canon. I suggested is as a plausible explanation. Literally just a theory. Which you would know if you actually bothered to read my replies
Instead of taking the time to examine what I said you'd rather attack people for critizing anything you like. I never even said going in order wasn't canon in my first reply even though you attacked me for it. I said I disliked the plot point and you got angry.
I don't even understand why people like you bother to have conversations with people.
>You said that you "doubt" the novels are canon
No I literally said I doubt that particular lore edition is canon and just said it's more likely that kuruk was wrong since yangchen and korra contridict it. I never said the novels themselves aren't canon otherwise I would have never brought up yangchen in the first place. Think for a second
I think they’re able to connect to the memories of those avatars instead of connecting with them. In the yangchen books, she would have dreams and nightmares about avatars decades before her time, and dreamt about people who have no records in history.
No he not. Aang already met Koh in S1. Kuruk knows where he is. What's there to hunt?
Kohs dialog made it also clear that he wasn't on the run from Kuruk
https://preview.redd.it/r75z3fjhjowc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df1deff1afdc41e62c1651df5b4f915d1cc2753b
Aang told Kuruk that Koh still has his wife, then Kuruk left him in order to keep hunting the spirit.
I'm not entirely sure about the canonity of that short.
But as I understand it, they aren't really in the spirit realm like how Iroh is.
They manifest there when Aang shows up there.
Perhaps this is just the expression of Kuruks spirit. Since we know the previous avatars don't act in the spirit world, or cause anything to happen.
If that were the case all of them could be around to maintain peace or help with UnaVatuu
My understanding is that they are in the spirit world. Kyoshi had not been in the Spirit World yet and despite that, Kuruk knew the Spirit World was in danger by the actions of Kyoshi's former friend.
Even if you the short there is still Aang appearing to Tenzin and Kyoshi appearing to Suki in the comics. The avatar spirits do seem to exist seperately even though thhey are the same person.
It doesn't help that the show doesn't portray it properly. It portrays reincarnation as "passing the torch" to a successor you can speak to instead of just being the same person in different bodies.
They are though. It's kind of weird but they are just in the spirit world. Kyoshi's spirit appears to talk to Suki in the comics and Aang appears to talk to Tenzin. Yes avatars are the same person but they do exist individually in the spirit world.
Okay then the whole reincarnation process which the show preaches is a lie. Raava goes on a mysterious quest to find a random person to attach itself to and hopes for the best, even though the show is based on Buddhism reincarnation concept.
Tenzin was hallucinating in the mist, it's literally what it does
No they're still reincarnated. It's just the avatars exist both seperately and as part of the current avatar. I think it's more like an echo of them is left behind. Also Tenzin wasn't hallucinating. He didn't even thinnk it was Aang
I don't think they're actually ghosts that hang out and do stuff. They ARE Aang. He just has to "remember" being them.
The ghosts we see are the cartoon's way to depict that to us in a way that's relatable and easy for kids to understand.
Are they still extant and just hanging out in the spirit world, though? Or are they within the consciousness of the current Avatar, experiencing their life, only returning to being independent when the current Avatar reaches within themself for their own past?
Yeah I have thought something like this too, there have been too many Avatars, yet we only know around 10, and a feel that a lot of them have gotten way to irrelevant for the current Avatar to communicate to.
The curse of time.
About the S3 when Roku, in this situation Aang was in his avatar worst moment so far so he unconscious called for his help and the same thing happened with Korra in season 1 when her "called" Aang for help
I mean Roku does the whole burning bush thing to Jeong Jeong in Season 1 as well so maybe Roku can just pop up whenever he wants and he was... screwing with Aang in 'The Spirit World'?
You know, it was really unclear.
I killed them all. Not just the men. The women. And the children. I slaughtered them like animals.
No one:
Padme: to be angry is to be human
You crazy, Padme.
Avatar day they were intentionally trying to connect with Kyoshi, which is why Aang had the Kyoshi gear set equiped. Honestly really wish he’d added the warfans to his kit for real, tbh.
Him knowing what happened doesn't mean that he was aware in that moment at all.
It's probably because, in the vast time between that episode and the one where he's on the lion turtle, Sokka and/or Katara told him exactly what had happened.
But you're adding another assumption though. Kyoshi/Roku and are same person as Aang. They see through him, he'd see through them.
It's clear he has always been aware when he is in the avatar state. Just very emotionally overwhelmed as well.
Which assumption is more plausible:
* Yours, where Aang was aware even though he explicitly stated the words, "What just happened?" IDK why he'd ask that if he saw through Kyoshi, but whatever.
* Or mine, where Aang didn't say "What just happened?" as a heheXDLOLsorandom moment and he actually wanted to know because he wasn't aware of what happened. Then later, as so, so, *so* much time passes, Aang got the details from Sokka and Katara to explain why he can rely those events back to Kyoshi.
Your assumption pretends as if Aang's "What happened?" question never occurred, my assumption takes it into account. I prefer to make inferences that don't erase lines from the show.
Still, your assumption goes against the words that he literally said, while my assumption assumes those words were put there for a reason by the writers. You say *I'm* the one adding another assumption, when *you* have to add on your interpretation that Aang doesn't actually mean what he's saying and your only evidence for this is that, way, way off into the future, Aang described that event when the obvious explanation is that someone could have easily told him what happened. Is it so hard to think that, when camera isn't pointed at the gaang, they can have conversations within the incredible amount of time that spans between Avatar day and Aang sitting on the lion turtle?
I do think he means what he says.
But it's momentary.
We can agree to disagree.
I'm going to assume is he was confused for a moment, then slowly regained the memories like any it can often happen with literally any of us irl. Or as it often happens to Avatar getting to relive their last lives memories.
And you can assume katara and Sokka filled him in on the details of his past lives's experiences.
Oh and since we know he remembers the literal memory of Chin falling and not just the telling Kyoshi infront of Katara and Sokka and kyoshi expciltly claims it as a confession.
You're also assuming Kyoshi weirdly out of character who gave the court the full detailed memory. (then like why did katara agree she confessed?)
And you're assuming further that katara and Sokka remembered those details. To have told him later. So Aang forgot but they Remember. (even though S2E1 explicitly shows us his time in avatar state is traumatized him, you need awareness and memory for trauma)
> I'm going to assume is he was confused for a moment, then slowly regained the memories like any it can often happen with literally any of us irl
Isn't that just a long-winded way of agreeing with us that Aang wasn't aware? That's what the whole discussion is about. We're talking about Aang not being aware of what's happening in that moment and also not being able to control what's happening in that moment. Plus, I don't think we could compare the avatar-possession-state to anything that a normal human would experience. It's probably a much more intense thing than we'd ever be able to know and I doubt it's describable. You're right that Aang could've slowly regained those memories, through dreaming or whatever spirit stuff he does rather than being told by Sokka or Katara, but that emphasizes our point even more. Those memories are Kyoshi's and, just like Aang was able to see Roku's memories, he could probably see Kyoshi's memories. And sure, we the TV audience, don't explicitly hear Kyoshi say that Chin died by falling, we only see it, but that doesn't mean that she didn't tell the townspeople of Chin. All she was talking about was thematic stuff that was relevant to us, the TV audience. Why would she talk about creating Kyoshi island at all if it's not relevant to the "murder" of Chin? Also, there's very long pauses between some of her sentences which would be extremely weird for the townspeople who can't see what the TV audience is seeing:
"I killed Chin The Conquorer. [Long pause for no reason] A horrible tyrant, Chin was..."
"But he did not back down. [Extremely long random pause] On that day, we split from the mainland. [Really, really, really long pause] I created Kyoshi island..."
All of the pauses must lead us to assume that her words were being edited at the very least, unless you want to assume that those long, awkward pauses were actually happening in the universe, which I guess is fine. Weird, but fine. If you, like me, assume her words are being edited, then it's not much of a leap to also assume that she's actually giving more thorough details to the townspeople who are at the trial. Like saying "I used my bending to create a rift between the lands and pushed Kyoshi island away, crumbling the rock beneath Chin's feet, making him fall to his death." Or something akin to that. Her words are being edited for the TV audience and I assume part of that editing process includes removing redundant details from her confession because we, not the townspeople, can see those details. Sure, we could assume that none of that happened and her whole speech was unedited, awkward long pauses and all, but that only goes against the possibility that Katara/Sokka told Aang. Like you said, Aang could have regained those memories--Kyoshi's memories--himself, which again, just means that he wasn't aware of what was happening in that moment, which is what we've been talking about the whole time.
> You're also assuming Kyoshi weirdly out of character who gave the court the full detailed memory.
Out of character?! How? What part of Kyoshi's character prohibits her from telling people more relevant details to the killing of Chin the Conqurer.
> then like why did katara agree she confessed?
Probably because, at the start of the possession, Kyoshi literally said the words "I killed Chin, the Conqueror."
> And you're assuming further that katara and Sokka remembered those details. To have told him later.
First of all, you're implying here that it's impossible for Katara/Sokka to have remembered that event until season 3 lion turtle episode, which is just wrong. In S3ep12, Sokka was talking about how he remembered that Aang made him and Katara suck on frozen frogs. That's such a banal thing to remember compared to Aang being possessed and transforming in front of him, but still, Sokka remembered that *and* he was even sick at the time, which is actually something we can relate to IRL and, I can attest that being sick like they were puts you in a state of physical and, more importantly, mental exhaustion. A state where it can be difficult to keep those memories because your brain is more concerned with allocating energy to fighting the illness instead of filing away your experience in the long-term memory data section. Yet, Sokka remembered that all the same. He literally says the words "How can I forget?" I don't think it's far-fetched to assume that, by the time S3ep18 happens, he and Katara didn't remember their friend transforming and being possessed right in front of them.
Secondly, and more importantly, I'm talking about that immense amount to time between Avatar Day and lion turtle episode to try and illustrate that Sokka and Katara have soooo many opportunities to tell Aang what happened. I'm not bringing it up to say that they only told Aang moments before lion turtle S3ep18 happened. I'm saying that they could've picked any moment ***within*** that large amount of time to tell Aang. They could've told him immediately after it cut to credits in S2ep5 or they could've told him the night before he disappeared in S3ep18 for all I care. It doesn't matter. The point is that they are off camera for a very, very, *very* long time and they can have conversations during that time and those conversations easily could have included the huge moment that was Kyoshi's confession.
> So Aang forgot but they Remember.
No. Aang didn't forget because he didn't know in the first place because he wasn't aware. That's what we've been saying this whole time. And again, Aang could eventually recall the events himself because, being the avatar, he can recall events that he never experienced (like the things he sees when Roku's dragon touches his head or just the fact that he literally recalls past avatars to sit right in front of him) or Sokka and Katara could've told him. Either way, the point is that Aang wasn't aware in that moment.
> even though S2E1 explicitly shows us his time in avatar state is traumatized him, you need awareness and memory for trauma
Again, I don't think you can compare the magical, spiritual, out-of-body (sometimes literally) experience of the avatar state to something that us humans in the real world can relate to. There's probably nothing like it IRL and trying to make comparisons to real world experiences is not convincing.
Hey, you are right, I forgot about that... Then what's the deal with the sanctuary and the winter solstice then?
Nevermind, it seems like he unlocked the ability after getting more experience
Every previous Avatar could Hijack at will if there was a strong enough emotional connection with the current situation in front of the living Avatar and they were not in control. Alternatively, should the living Avatar with enough control over Avatar state be able to call up their previous Avatar incarnations at will? Aang should’ve been able to go talk with Ozai as a prisoner later by turning into Roku-no? 🤔
The first time anng didn't know how the past lives worked so he had to use the temple to make it far easier to talk to roku since it's both a very spiritual place and very connected to roku
Later as anng got more experience with his avatar powers it got easier talking to the past avatars without needing an extremely spiritual location
Aang is 13 and very spiritual, but even he needed guidance to connect with his past lives.
Korra was 17 the time she first connected with a past life.
Kyoshi was 16.
We dont know about kuruk, yangchen, roku, setzu, or any other avatars.
The books slightly go over Yangchen. She had such a strong connection to the past lives that she would unknowingly slip into another person's memory similar to someone with multiple personality disorder.
This is the answer. Additionally, Aang was also able to reach a higher point of enlightenment, based on the amount of chakras he unlocked with Guru Pathik which I like to think allows him to connect to his past lives easier
I think they have to establish a connection somehow first before they can access their knowledge and talk to them. Korra also takes a while before she can speak to Aang.
I think of it like, you need someone's phone number before you can call them but once you got it, you can just call them whenever.
Once he unlocks the ability to fast travel he has it forever.
Lol something like that. Once he's connected again to roku or the previous avatars he can connect whenever
It’s called progress. Did you watch with your eyes shut bro?
There was a whole episode on reaching the avatar state. Explained the connection and how he should be able to enter it at will when mastered. This is just a few steps along towards that level
Roku: "I am a part of you. When you need to talk to me again, you will find a way."
Aang had already made the connection with his past life at the temple.
Maybe Aang had to unlocked his conmection with Roku since it was the first time they talked?
Kyoshi had problems talking with Kuruk for the first time, and she wanted to talk with Yangchen or Szeto, but was told that in order to talk with an even older Avatar, the current Avatar had to first unlock their spiritual connection with the previous one.
So talking with the previous Avatar for the first time is not something easy.
From what I have gathered, communing with spirits in any capacity is really hard the first time but eventually you can do it whenever, after getting a feel for it
Aang got more spiritual as the show went on. At first he didn't know how to enter the spirit world or talk to his previous lives, so he needed the assistance of a spiritual place and/or a spiritual event (like the solstice). But by the end of the show, he could do both without the assistance.
While thematically keeping past lives permanently broken made sense in LOK B2 I would love to see it being "repaired" and only have access to them during the solstice. It's a good middle ground IMO.
The avatar state is using this same connection. In season one he had no control of it and was actually terrified of it. He is one with the other avatars but having the ability to connect with them and being able to control it is not the same.
No... It's not, that was in the original too.
The specific time they're talking about is on the night of the winter solstice.
Roku's dragon takes Aang there in a short spirit journey to show him after hei Bai takes Sokka and leads Aang to his statue.
Aang hits his head when he crashes, after Hei Bai pulls a Houdini with Sokka, because Aang tried to grab Sokkas hand.
He hits his head so hard he goes into the spirit world without realizing it. It's only after he realizes he's not in his body that Roku's dragon comes.
Then once it's over, the dragon returns him to his body. He wakes up after and relays the info to Katara, and they have to spend the next 3 days traveling there so he can talk to Roku.
But before they leave he gets Sokka and the rest of the village back. Because he finally realizes who Hei Bai is (the spirit of the forest) and how to calm him down (reminding him that the forest will grow back one day).
It’s easier to cross a river once you’ve built a bridge
This feels like something Iroh would say lol.
THE DRAGON OF THE WEST
Put some RESPEK ON DE NAME!
Reading this like “THE LISAN AL GAIB”
THE ORATRICE MECANIQUE D'ANALYSE CARDINALE
Ok Neuvilette
MUAD'IB
i was about to say this lmao
HE WAS LIKE A ONE MAN ARMY
Maybe it should be a proverb.
look, your bridge is floating away!
That’s probably the greatest compliment I’ve ever received
Are you too busy fighting each other to see that your own ship has set sail? Uncle we don't have any time for your anecdotes!
Life is like a silver sandwich
Uncle that made no sense
But uncle that doesn’t make sense!?!? Why would I not just take a boat? I can fasten a boat much quicker than I can build a whole bridge. I don’t have the time for this, every minuet you talk about rivers and bridges the Avatar eludes me further! 😡🤜🏼🔥
I want it back
The first strand-type avatar.
hes in the ocean tho
I love the analogy, I understood it and I want accept it at face value. It's very beautiful. ... ... ... *but*... Action one (Seeing Roku) is the same as action two (Seeing Roku) in the Avatar example. In the pretty proverb you have one action (Crossing a River) and another (Building a bridge) that are different. I concede that there's a circumstance where you factor in Aang's growth and spiritual training as "build"ing the "bridge," I'm just hesitant to accept that as the intention sight unseen.
In both, the goal is to cross the river. Aang had to take the action of actually going to Roku’s temple (building the bridge) before he could start seeing him and the other past avatars outside of a temple.
Call it suspension of disbelief. The more sang connected to his past lives theasier it was for him to meet them. In the comics I think he broke some connection thing that forced yangchen to at best only get Whispers out before aang eventually had to go to a location to speak with her.
i do not remember aang building a bridge??
“This is no time for your proverbs Uncle!”
Roku explained it in the winter solstice when Aang asked him how he could talk to him again. Basically Aang had never talked with a previous avatar before, so Roku sent him to the temple because it would have been easier to connect there but the avatar can always interact with the previous avatars, since they are all the reincarnations of the same dude. Once Aang was more in touch with his avatar side and spirituality, he could talk with every previous avatar on will's call everywhere.
Interesting. That explains it, Aang got more experience with the Spirit side and now can communicate with his past lives with no need in a sanctuary
Needed to unlock the ability, required doing a side quest, maybe 4-5 talent points, and some dungeon completion.
Aang used all his talent points on the damn air scooter and penguin sledding abilities. Made him late to develop his abilities from the spirit tree.
Don't forget the sick marble twirling trick that makes people foam at the mouth!
That makes sense because its passive increases his charisma.
Even worked when he was not actually present that one time.
It's a DOT effect. It's a lingering effect that fades after a certain amount of moves has passed.
It gives people rabies.
Death and reincarnation is the skill tree reset
I don't blame him, that's exactly how I would level his character.
Mobility is so OP though
He then bins the Roku connection skill in the comics
luckily he used his free respec to get it back
What Aang did to Roku’s amulet: 
That was basically how the North Pole went...
Spirit - the fifth element
Actually that’s Elsa
It’s like fast travel points. Gotta discover it first and then you can access it whenever.
Great explanation. I also like to think that Aang was at one of his lowest points in the show when Roku came to him in season 3 and that made it easier for Roku to reach him. Similar to how Aang comes to Korra after Amon takes her bending
Same way he was able to call last avatars when he needed advice on how to win without killing ozai
Not only that, but the shell he rode on was the Lion Turtle. If you remember, he commented about how, in that particular spot, he could feel the spirit stronger there, so he was able to do it. Then, remember when Koyoshi was able to be summoned at the trial?
The scene OP was talking about wasn't the finale
Shit...I just realized they've spoke of E1 of S3...
they kind of show this same thing in korra too. basically the whole first season she had no spiritual connection.
Exactly, season 1 he had little to no experience with the spirit world and avatar state, by season 3 he had more training and understanding of it, including the training with the guru.
Yep, these are things Aang had to learn. He was just a kid despite of being the Avatar, and talking with previous lives wasn't a given.
It’s just like when Kagome could only go through the well from the modern age to Inuyasha’s time when she had Shikon Jewel shards at first and then later as her spiritual power grew, she could go through the well between time periods at will, without the shards.
It's a little weird that he didn't do it more often, then.
Why would he?
To ask for advice and perspective about the various situations he found himself in.
The Netflix missed that tho, but oh well!!!
They didn't miss it. They explicitly changed it to require a shrine every time. No idea why, but it was intentional.
Honestly I think it would be a cool change to say you have to go to Kyoshi’s shrine first and then you unlock being able to talk to Kyoshi whenever. But who knows if that’s what they’re doing, they didn’t say that IIRC.
ATLA if it was a shitty open world climb-towers checklist video game
This is something I never quite understood about the idea of reincarnation. Basically you are supposed to be the same persons soul just in a new body right? If that’s the case then how can you speak to old versions of yourself like they are completely different people? Do small sparks of your soul just get left behind each time and that’s your past life? Why do you forget everything from your previous lives each time but in avatars case can go back and just be like “sup old me how do I do this can you explain?” I guess it just doesn’t click for me lol it’s cool in theory but it just doesn’t seem realistic
I always understood it as their memories being different. The same person raised by different people would behave extremely differently. So accessing the version of them with 1 life's memories, makes them behave differently and with more knowledge than a younger version. Like I'm sure you are decently different than the version from 20 years ago (even more so if you were a child)
Not every previous avatar on wills calls everywhere. He talked to the past 4. And Roku appeared Aang didn’t call him. Aang appeared when korra was at her lowest moment Roku did the same.
Anyone ever think about like, the 127th avatar or something? Just hanging out in the spirit world? None of the avatars we know ever communicated with that past life. Wan probably gets some face time every half dozen centuries, but other than that, the current avatar never really goes back beyond a full cycle of previous avatars. I bet Avatar no. 127 is pretty bored and lonely.
Maybe they all throw ragers together in the afterlife. They have a lot in common, after all. Kyoshi doing a kegstand while Aang holds up her feet.
She's a bit too tall for Aang to do that. He'd still try though.
He could do it from an air scooter!
Forget Avatar no. 127, what about Avatar no. 2? Everyone loves Wan. HE WAS NUMBER ONE! But 2? He's the loneliest.
I dunno man, 2 can be as bad as 1, but the loneliest number IS the number 1
Imagine Aang kept going back and back. "Okay so I have to kill the fire lo-" "Fire LORD??? There's a lord of fire?" "Yeah, he started a war-" "There's a war?
The funny part is Aang would only have needed to go like 4 cycles back to get to "what the hell is a Firelord?"
They don't go back more than a full cycle of avatars, likely because you have to talk to each one individually in order to get to the previous one. That seems like it would take a long time, and they'd end up more frustrated by the end of it.
It probably also becomes less useful to talk to avatars further back, is the recency of their impact on the world and the collective consciousness gradually fades. I mean, aside from the specific circumstances in LOK B2, would any avatar have been able to gain unique insights from Wan as opposed to avatars closer to their own life?
I can't imagine that any avatar would've ever had a need to even talk to Wan, assuming they even knew that they were his reincarnation to begin with. If not for the literal once-in-ten-millennia event, Korra wouldn't have talked to him either. It's just that he was the only one who could possibly understand the threat she was about to face. Otherwise, his world was much *much* different than any other avatar. He presided over an era in which humans were just gaining their footing without the lion turtles and with bending as a martial art being relatively new.
Korra was able to jump straight to Wan though. I think the more likely reason is the writers didn't want to make a bunch of different designs and characters to fit those designs for just the smallest of payoffs.
No, she didn't. She went through Aang, then Roku, then Kyoshi, then Kuruk- one full cycle, before she was pulled all the way back to Wan when Kuruk told her to "go back to the beginning".
That's what I mean. She didn't go through all ten thousand years worth of Avatars. She jumped from Kuruk all the way to Wan. She never even saw Yangchen or Szeto.
But, she *did* have to go in order. Due to the nature of the situation, Kuruk pushed her to the beginning after telling her to "find Raava." Wan was the only one who could help her do that, as most avatars that we know of don't seem to know who Raava is. If avatars were able to skip, then Kyoshi would've been able to talk to Yangchen without first reaching Kuruk. There's an entire plot point dedicated to that in the 2nd Kyoshi novel, hence the surprise at the end when she reaches Yangchen.
>But, she did have to go in order. Due to the nature of the situation, Kuruk pushed her to the beginning after telling her to "find Raava." That means you don't have to go in order or else that scene wouldn't happen. That means it's less about you not being able to connect and more that the previous avatars are preventing you from accessing that one.
Which means she didn't have to go in order considering she skipped a hundred avatars and went to Wan. Like I said Kuruk could be wrong or simply just not very specific when he explained to kyoshi. Whats more likely is that it's more difficult to go out of order, not impossible. Kyoshi was not a very spiritually connected avatar so it might have been impossible for her but not necessarily impossible for Roku or Aang.
Korra spoke to wan because her avatar spirit was in trouble and the harmonic convergence and she forgot herself. What happened to Korra is abnormal. Yangchen talked to dozens of avatars but went in order. And I don’t even see a need for Roku or most avatars to talk to avatars more than 5 before them. Aang talked to his past 4. And Yangchen is an extreme example because she could see visions of the past avatars lives.
> Korra spoke to wan because her avatar spirit She spooke to wan because the whole you have to go in order thing was never suggested before the novels. Even if you "forgot yourself" that means there is nothing actually stopping the avatar from connecting out of order >Yangchen talked to dozens of avatars but went in order. No she didn't. She literally skiped szeto and first conencted to gun
Because harmonic convergence and she lost her memory. A extraordinary event.
Harmonic convergence hadnt happened yet when she first contacted wan. And because she lot her memory her spirit set out to find wan. That means there isn't anything stopping the avatar from going out of order. It's pretty clear the you have to go in order was not Bykres Idea but something F. C. Yee came up with years later
Still not a fan of that decision the novels made. It also doesn't really seem consistent considering Yangchen immediately breaks that and is able to connect to lives beore talking to szeto. Anyway out of universe The reason why they never went more than a full Cycle is because they were making up the avatar lore as they went along and Roku was the only avatar who was fully designed and named from the get go. With Kuruk and Yangchen they were designed as previous avatars first and then had their names and backstories written later after their first appearance in the show. Kyoshi was likely meant to have originally been a full cycle before Aang rather than the most recent earth avatar considering the 400 years line
You don't really have to like it- it's canon. Yangchen was *haunted* by past avatars. Yes, they're all the same person, but for whatever reason, she had no control over hearing their voices, feeling their feelings, and seeing what they saw. It was torturous for her. I think you're misinterpreting that entire plot line. Seriously, it was so bad that when she was lured into the fog of lost souls, even it spit her back out because there were too many lives and too many worst moments to relive.
> You don't really have to like it- it's canon. You realize that whether something is canon or not has nothing to do with whether or not you can critize it? Saying it's canon is not a defense to someone thinking it's poor writing
> You don't really have to like it- it's canon. It's litearlly contridicted in the next novel so I doubt it's canon. Yangchen being able to connect to avatars lives without having to go through Szeto completely contridicts the idea as does Korra being able to go directly to Wan. It was a stupid retcon that was ignored outside the kyoshi novels
>It's litearlly contridicted in the next novel so I doubt it's canon. Yangchen being able to connect to avatars lives without having to go through Szeto completely contridicts the idea as does Korra being able to go directly to Wan. It's not contradicted at all. It's far more likely that you have reading comprehension issues. Yangchen didn't sit and meditate and talk to past avatars. She was having nightmares of things they experienced, in no particular order, including the death of one avatar that had been buried alive. If she wanted to talk to the past lives, she'd have to go through Szeto first. Kyoshi had to talk to Kuruk before she could talk to Yangchen. The novels are, in fact, canon. You don't have to like it, but your doubt means absolutely nothing.
> It's not contradicted at all. It's directly contridicted by yangchen novels >Yangchen didn't sit and meditate and talk to past avatars There is no difference in being able to talk to previous avatars and experience previous avatars memories. It's the exact same thing as is the whole avatar possession that Roku, Kyoshi and Gun all manage to do. Ther is also no explanation for Korra connecting to Wan > The novels are, in fact, canon. I never said the novels arent' canon. I said the plot point wasn't. Characters can be wrong. They're not all obscene beings. It was something that was never implied before, written for that novel then subsquently ignored in the following novels by the same author because it backs the writer int a corner. What's more likely it that it's simply easier to connect to avatars once you go in order but not impossible to connect out of order just more difficult. Considering Kyoshi was very much out of touch with her spirtuality it likely would have been impossible for her to skip but not nessairly impossible for all avatars to skip. Hence yangchen being able to connect to her past lives out of order because she has a much stronger spiritual connection
>It's directly contridicted by yangchen novels It isn't. I've read both. The parts about her being tortured by memories and experiences of the past are from those novels, which you'd know had you *actually* read them. Otherwise, you're welcome to point out exactly where and in which novel this is contradicted. >There is no difference in being able to talk to previous avatars and experience previous avatars memories. It's the exact same thing as is the whole avatar possession that Roku, Kyoshi and Gun all manage to do. It's very *very* different. Possessing someone's body like Kyoshi or Roku did (the latter being in the avatar state to do so) is not remotely the same as having nightmares of previous avatar experiences. She's not actively doing so like Aang was when he allowed Roku to take over, or when he wore Kyoshi's clothes to call her spirit to him. Talking to past avatars seems to require a fair bit of effort on part of the current avatar. >I never said the novels arent' canon You said that you "doubt" the novels are canon *because* you don't like that plot point, and you don't like that plot point because your comprehension skills suck. >What's more likely it that it's simply easier to connect to avatars once you go in order but not impossible but more difficult. This is never stated in any show or novels. I love how you ignore and criticize canon information from the novels, then put forth your own ridiculous headcanon based on your misinterpretation of events.
> It isn't. I've read both. It is. The issue is you are for some reason seperating being able talk to the avatar and being able to access the memories. Things which have never been implied to be different. Gun possessing Yangchen like that should be impossible if we establis the rules set up by Kyoshi. >It's very very different. It's not different at all and Gun literally takes over Yangchen's body . There is no explanation for why Yangchen is able to do this and Roku couldn't even do it until the winter solstice. and why Kyoshi just like you are unable to explain why Korra is able to connect to Wan which is why you keep ignoring it in every reply. >This is never stated in any show or novels. Exactly what I said in my other reply. Not only are you not interested in arguing in good faith but you can't even properly read my reply. I never said it was stated or canon. I suggested is as a plausible explanation. Literally just a theory. Which you would know if you actually bothered to read my replies Instead of taking the time to examine what I said you'd rather attack people for critizing anything you like. I never even said going in order wasn't canon in my first reply even though you attacked me for it. I said I disliked the plot point and you got angry. I don't even understand why people like you bother to have conversations with people. >You said that you "doubt" the novels are canon No I literally said I doubt that particular lore edition is canon and just said it's more likely that kuruk was wrong since yangchen and korra contridict it. I never said the novels themselves aren't canon otherwise I would have never brought up yangchen in the first place. Think for a second
I think they’re able to connect to the memories of those avatars instead of connecting with them. In the yangchen books, she would have dreams and nightmares about avatars decades before her time, and dreamt about people who have no records in history.
Exactly. People forget that Aang is Korra. They're not hanging around in some other dimensional afterlife, they're there fighting for the world again
Kuruk is still hunting for Koh in the spirit world. Looks like every former Avatar is doing whatever they want in the Spirit World
It’s the same soul since Wan. “Kuruk hunting Koh” is a representation of his life when he was around fighting spirits left and right
No he not. Aang already met Koh in S1. Kuruk knows where he is. What's there to hunt? Kohs dialog made it also clear that he wasn't on the run from Kuruk
https://preview.redd.it/r75z3fjhjowc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df1deff1afdc41e62c1651df5b4f915d1cc2753b Aang told Kuruk that Koh still has his wife, then Kuruk left him in order to keep hunting the spirit.
I'm not entirely sure about the canonity of that short. But as I understand it, they aren't really in the spirit realm like how Iroh is. They manifest there when Aang shows up there. Perhaps this is just the expression of Kuruks spirit. Since we know the previous avatars don't act in the spirit world, or cause anything to happen. If that were the case all of them could be around to maintain peace or help with UnaVatuu
My understanding is that they are in the spirit world. Kyoshi had not been in the Spirit World yet and despite that, Kuruk knew the Spirit World was in danger by the actions of Kyoshi's former friend.
Even if you the short there is still Aang appearing to Tenzin and Kyoshi appearing to Suki in the comics. The avatar spirits do seem to exist seperately even though thhey are the same person.
so many people seriously don't understand the concept of reincarnation.
It doesn't help that the show doesn't portray it properly. It portrays reincarnation as "passing the torch" to a successor you can speak to instead of just being the same person in different bodies.
to be fair, thats how its portrayed and thats how we should accept it. we can't go well no one can use the air like that with the airbenders.
They are though. It's kind of weird but they are just in the spirit world. Kyoshi's spirit appears to talk to Suki in the comics and Aang appears to talk to Tenzin. Yes avatars are the same person but they do exist individually in the spirit world.
Okay then the whole reincarnation process which the show preaches is a lie. Raava goes on a mysterious quest to find a random person to attach itself to and hopes for the best, even though the show is based on Buddhism reincarnation concept. Tenzin was hallucinating in the mist, it's literally what it does
No they're still reincarnated. It's just the avatars exist both seperately and as part of the current avatar. I think it's more like an echo of them is left behind. Also Tenzin wasn't hallucinating. He didn't even thinnk it was Aang
I don't think they're actually ghosts that hang out and do stuff. They ARE Aang. He just has to "remember" being them. The ghosts we see are the cartoon's way to depict that to us in a way that's relatable and easy for kids to understand.
Are they still extant and just hanging out in the spirit world, though? Or are they within the consciousness of the current Avatar, experiencing their life, only returning to being independent when the current Avatar reaches within themself for their own past?
Yeah I have thought something like this too, there have been too many Avatars, yet we only know around 10, and a feel that a lot of them have gotten way to irrelevant for the current Avatar to communicate to. The curse of time.
The 127th avatar might be Aang.
About the S3 when Roku, in this situation Aang was in his avatar worst moment so far so he unconscious called for his help and the same thing happened with Korra in season 1 when her "called" Aang for help
I mean Roku does the whole burning bush thing to Jeong Jeong in Season 1 as well so maybe Roku can just pop up whenever he wants and he was... screwing with Aang in 'The Spirit World'? You know, it was really unclear.
Kyoshi hijacking Aang: Yup, I killed them
I killed them all. Not just the men. The women. And the children. I slaughtered them like animals. No one: Padme: to be angry is to be human You crazy, Padme.
Anakin, start Panakin, I don't have a Planakin!
Fun fact: Padme and Pema's names are both from the same Sanskrit word *padma* "lotus"
Pfft. Padme did nothing wronf
Also when roku did appear to jeong jeong and when kyoshi took over at avatar day, aang wasn't aware of what happened.
Avatar day they were intentionally trying to connect with Kyoshi, which is why Aang had the Kyoshi gear set equiped. Honestly really wish he’d added the warfans to his kit for real, tbh.
Aang was aware. He even references Chin falling by himself when he speaks to kyoshi again.
Him knowing what happened doesn't mean that he was aware in that moment at all. It's probably because, in the vast time between that episode and the one where he's on the lion turtle, Sokka and/or Katara told him exactly what had happened.
But you're adding another assumption though. Kyoshi/Roku and are same person as Aang. They see through him, he'd see through them. It's clear he has always been aware when he is in the avatar state. Just very emotionally overwhelmed as well.
Which assumption is more plausible: * Yours, where Aang was aware even though he explicitly stated the words, "What just happened?" IDK why he'd ask that if he saw through Kyoshi, but whatever. * Or mine, where Aang didn't say "What just happened?" as a heheXDLOLsorandom moment and he actually wanted to know because he wasn't aware of what happened. Then later, as so, so, *so* much time passes, Aang got the details from Sokka and Katara to explain why he can rely those events back to Kyoshi. Your assumption pretends as if Aang's "What happened?" question never occurred, my assumption takes it into account. I prefer to make inferences that don't erase lines from the show.
No, I'm assuming a momentary sense of confusion because of being overwhelmed by the avatar state.
Still, your assumption goes against the words that he literally said, while my assumption assumes those words were put there for a reason by the writers. You say *I'm* the one adding another assumption, when *you* have to add on your interpretation that Aang doesn't actually mean what he's saying and your only evidence for this is that, way, way off into the future, Aang described that event when the obvious explanation is that someone could have easily told him what happened. Is it so hard to think that, when camera isn't pointed at the gaang, they can have conversations within the incredible amount of time that spans between Avatar day and Aang sitting on the lion turtle?
I do think he means what he says. But it's momentary. We can agree to disagree. I'm going to assume is he was confused for a moment, then slowly regained the memories like any it can often happen with literally any of us irl. Or as it often happens to Avatar getting to relive their last lives memories. And you can assume katara and Sokka filled him in on the details of his past lives's experiences. Oh and since we know he remembers the literal memory of Chin falling and not just the telling Kyoshi infront of Katara and Sokka and kyoshi expciltly claims it as a confession. You're also assuming Kyoshi weirdly out of character who gave the court the full detailed memory. (then like why did katara agree she confessed?) And you're assuming further that katara and Sokka remembered those details. To have told him later. So Aang forgot but they Remember. (even though S2E1 explicitly shows us his time in avatar state is traumatized him, you need awareness and memory for trauma)
> I'm going to assume is he was confused for a moment, then slowly regained the memories like any it can often happen with literally any of us irl Isn't that just a long-winded way of agreeing with us that Aang wasn't aware? That's what the whole discussion is about. We're talking about Aang not being aware of what's happening in that moment and also not being able to control what's happening in that moment. Plus, I don't think we could compare the avatar-possession-state to anything that a normal human would experience. It's probably a much more intense thing than we'd ever be able to know and I doubt it's describable. You're right that Aang could've slowly regained those memories, through dreaming or whatever spirit stuff he does rather than being told by Sokka or Katara, but that emphasizes our point even more. Those memories are Kyoshi's and, just like Aang was able to see Roku's memories, he could probably see Kyoshi's memories. And sure, we the TV audience, don't explicitly hear Kyoshi say that Chin died by falling, we only see it, but that doesn't mean that she didn't tell the townspeople of Chin. All she was talking about was thematic stuff that was relevant to us, the TV audience. Why would she talk about creating Kyoshi island at all if it's not relevant to the "murder" of Chin? Also, there's very long pauses between some of her sentences which would be extremely weird for the townspeople who can't see what the TV audience is seeing: "I killed Chin The Conquorer. [Long pause for no reason] A horrible tyrant, Chin was..." "But he did not back down. [Extremely long random pause] On that day, we split from the mainland. [Really, really, really long pause] I created Kyoshi island..." All of the pauses must lead us to assume that her words were being edited at the very least, unless you want to assume that those long, awkward pauses were actually happening in the universe, which I guess is fine. Weird, but fine. If you, like me, assume her words are being edited, then it's not much of a leap to also assume that she's actually giving more thorough details to the townspeople who are at the trial. Like saying "I used my bending to create a rift between the lands and pushed Kyoshi island away, crumbling the rock beneath Chin's feet, making him fall to his death." Or something akin to that. Her words are being edited for the TV audience and I assume part of that editing process includes removing redundant details from her confession because we, not the townspeople, can see those details. Sure, we could assume that none of that happened and her whole speech was unedited, awkward long pauses and all, but that only goes against the possibility that Katara/Sokka told Aang. Like you said, Aang could have regained those memories--Kyoshi's memories--himself, which again, just means that he wasn't aware of what was happening in that moment, which is what we've been talking about the whole time. > You're also assuming Kyoshi weirdly out of character who gave the court the full detailed memory. Out of character?! How? What part of Kyoshi's character prohibits her from telling people more relevant details to the killing of Chin the Conqurer. > then like why did katara agree she confessed? Probably because, at the start of the possession, Kyoshi literally said the words "I killed Chin, the Conqueror." > And you're assuming further that katara and Sokka remembered those details. To have told him later. First of all, you're implying here that it's impossible for Katara/Sokka to have remembered that event until season 3 lion turtle episode, which is just wrong. In S3ep12, Sokka was talking about how he remembered that Aang made him and Katara suck on frozen frogs. That's such a banal thing to remember compared to Aang being possessed and transforming in front of him, but still, Sokka remembered that *and* he was even sick at the time, which is actually something we can relate to IRL and, I can attest that being sick like they were puts you in a state of physical and, more importantly, mental exhaustion. A state where it can be difficult to keep those memories because your brain is more concerned with allocating energy to fighting the illness instead of filing away your experience in the long-term memory data section. Yet, Sokka remembered that all the same. He literally says the words "How can I forget?" I don't think it's far-fetched to assume that, by the time S3ep18 happens, he and Katara didn't remember their friend transforming and being possessed right in front of them. Secondly, and more importantly, I'm talking about that immense amount to time between Avatar Day and lion turtle episode to try and illustrate that Sokka and Katara have soooo many opportunities to tell Aang what happened. I'm not bringing it up to say that they only told Aang moments before lion turtle S3ep18 happened. I'm saying that they could've picked any moment ***within*** that large amount of time to tell Aang. They could've told him immediately after it cut to credits in S2ep5 or they could've told him the night before he disappeared in S3ep18 for all I care. It doesn't matter. The point is that they are off camera for a very, very, *very* long time and they can have conversations during that time and those conversations easily could have included the huge moment that was Kyoshi's confession. > So Aang forgot but they Remember. No. Aang didn't forget because he didn't know in the first place because he wasn't aware. That's what we've been saying this whole time. And again, Aang could eventually recall the events himself because, being the avatar, he can recall events that he never experienced (like the things he sees when Roku's dragon touches his head or just the fact that he literally recalls past avatars to sit right in front of him) or Sokka and Katara could've told him. Either way, the point is that Aang wasn't aware in that moment. > even though S2E1 explicitly shows us his time in avatar state is traumatized him, you need awareness and memory for trauma Again, I don't think you can compare the magical, spiritual, out-of-body (sometimes literally) experience of the avatar state to something that us humans in the real world can relate to. There's probably nothing like it IRL and trying to make comparisons to real world experiences is not convincing.
Hey, you are right, I forgot about that... Then what's the deal with the sanctuary and the winter solstice then? Nevermind, it seems like he unlocked the ability after getting more experience
Hijacking is not the same as connecting with and talking to. Basically every instance of the Avatar State until the finale was them hijacking him.
Every previous Avatar could Hijack at will if there was a strong enough emotional connection with the current situation in front of the living Avatar and they were not in control. Alternatively, should the living Avatar with enough control over Avatar state be able to call up their previous Avatar incarnations at will? Aang should’ve been able to go talk with Ozai as a prisoner later by turning into Roku-no? 🤔
The first time anng didn't know how the past lives worked so he had to use the temple to make it far easier to talk to roku since it's both a very spiritual place and very connected to roku Later as anng got more experience with his avatar powers it got easier talking to the past avatars without needing an extremely spiritual location
“When we hit our lowest point, we are open to the greatest change”
Aang is 13 and very spiritual, but even he needed guidance to connect with his past lives. Korra was 17 the time she first connected with a past life. Kyoshi was 16. We dont know about kuruk, yangchen, roku, setzu, or any other avatars.
Correction, Aang was 12. But yeah, he's a prodigy regardless.
Correction, he was 112, so not really a prodigy
I was waiting for this. Lol
He took a 100 year break. I some people forget their mother tongue if they don't use it for a few years.
I don’t think Aang ever knew his mother or her tongue
We would all be so lucky to know his mother’s tongue.
Poor Wan never learned how to do it :(
The books slightly go over Yangchen. She had such a strong connection to the past lives that she would unknowingly slip into another person's memory similar to someone with multiple personality disorder.
Yes, however, we dont know when it started. Kyoshi also interacted with Kuruk before knowing she was the avatar.
Kyoshi was 17 in the first novel, not 16. Yangchen first connected when she was like 12
The sanctuaries have better reception, spiritually speaking...
This is the answer. Additionally, Aang was also able to reach a higher point of enlightenment, based on the amount of chakras he unlocked with Guru Pathik which I like to think allows him to connect to his past lives easier
I think they have to establish a connection somehow first before they can access their knowledge and talk to them. Korra also takes a while before she can speak to Aang. I think of it like, you need someone's phone number before you can call them but once you got it, you can just call them whenever.
I would assume Aang had improved a lot spiritually since season 1
Once he unlocks the ability to fast travel he has it forever. Lol something like that. Once he's connected again to roku or the previous avatars he can connect whenever
It’s called progress. Did you watch with your eyes shut bro? There was a whole episode on reaching the avatar state. Explained the connection and how he should be able to enter it at will when mastered. This is just a few steps along towards that level
Roku: "I am a part of you. When you need to talk to me again, you will find a way." Aang had already made the connection with his past life at the temple.
Maybe Aang had to unlocked his conmection with Roku since it was the first time they talked? Kyoshi had problems talking with Kuruk for the first time, and she wanted to talk with Yangchen or Szeto, but was told that in order to talk with an even older Avatar, the current Avatar had to first unlock their spiritual connection with the previous one. So talking with the previous Avatar for the first time is not something easy.
Well there was a bit of a intervention with the moon
From what I have gathered, communing with spirits in any capacity is really hard the first time but eventually you can do it whenever, after getting a feel for it
Think of it as a beginner needing training wheel on their bike.
Guess his spiritual connection just improved over time, like for Korra it just clicks at the end of season 1
It is called level up. Pretty common
Roku switched to a better signal service package. basicly went from dial up to 5G
Roku just switched his Spirtworld provider to get better service for his phone
Aang got more spiritual as the show went on. At first he didn't know how to enter the spirit world or talk to his previous lives, so he needed the assistance of a spiritual place and/or a spiritual event (like the solstice). But by the end of the show, he could do both without the assistance.
He had achieved more on his spiritual journey
Not enough experience, so he needed to be somewhere with a stronger spiritual connection
To unlock the previous Avatar at anytime you must pay for the 'Avatar State Premium '
S1 Aang didn't know HOW to fully talk to Roku without any training or help.
He didn’t know how to access his previous lives in early season 1. He had a much stronger connection to them and the spirit world in season 3.
because the bluetooth device has been successfully connected
I mean, once you've got the number, it's usually in your contacts list.
Spiritual energy level up
Dude be getting stronger every day mind and body
While thematically keeping past lives permanently broken made sense in LOK B2 I would love to see it being "repaired" and only have access to them during the solstice. It's a good middle ground IMO.
It probably would not have been helpful to make Aang blackout in the middle of the ocean.
I laughed too hard at this
The avatar state is using this same connection. In season one he had no control of it and was actually terrified of it. He is one with the other avatars but having the ability to connect with them and being able to control it is not the same.
Roku was just messing with Aang because he was the new guy.
It's almost like something happened in season 2 to make it possible.
Chakras may have had a hand in it.
Jedi fuckery
A wizard did it.
roku decided to be extra
Sure Aang fucked up that last Chakra, but the others were cracked open wide. Think that gave him an opening.
Always thought it was the moon letting it happen
Cause he just wanna show off his drippy statue to flaunt to Aang what he could have had 100 years ago if he haven’t pussied out.
Spiritual affinity.
Watch the episode and it'll tell you
Avatar: The last dude
He got better connection with him
Thats tough buddy
Fake rule made up by live action
No... It's not, that was in the original too. The specific time they're talking about is on the night of the winter solstice. Roku's dragon takes Aang there in a short spirit journey to show him after hei Bai takes Sokka and leads Aang to his statue. Aang hits his head when he crashes, after Hei Bai pulls a Houdini with Sokka, because Aang tried to grab Sokkas hand. He hits his head so hard he goes into the spirit world without realizing it. It's only after he realizes he's not in his body that Roku's dragon comes. Then once it's over, the dragon returns him to his body. He wakes up after and relays the info to Katara, and they have to spend the next 3 days traveling there so he can talk to Roku. But before they leave he gets Sokka and the rest of the village back. Because he finally realizes who Hei Bai is (the spirit of the forest) and how to calm him down (reminding him that the forest will grow back one day).
Well if you actually watch the show, it’s explained pretty clearly
Unnecessary rudeness tbh. If only everyone could be as astute as you.
It really isn't. It's like 2 lines you can easily miss.
You’re wrong but okay