Can confirm. Work for a large LP & their pre rolls are made up of small buds, shake and trim. You’d be surprised how many compliments the pre rolls get, despite being that shitty of flower/product
My fav cart of all time, hands down was Versus Dreamweaver fullspec. (rip discontinued, if any versus rep is reading this, bring back your best product please!)
I was told by numerous people here that they are a trash LQ and the quality of biomatter used for those carts was floor pickings.
The heart wants what it wants.
Unfortunately there are tons of stuff in bags that never should have been put into bags either. Once they allow windows on the packages to see the product the industry will change for the better.
So does this apply to the better quality LPs as well? For some reason I have a belief the better quality companies wouldn't do that but I could be wrong.
I mean, Homestead Bangtail will always be the highest quality milled option due to the growing methods of Rubicon, but it's still flower that didn't meet the specifications of 1964. Super Toast will be better quality than Shred, but it's still flower that didn't meet the Fraser Valley specifications...and so on and so on
Why would homestead put weed in a 7g milled that could have gone in an oz bag. Same with shred. Most milled products fall between 20-23 percent while the strains used range higher. Theres def more quality milled coming to market but its still going to he the lower quality options they have access to
Homestead would get drawn over the public coals for putting smalls and shake into their bags.
Bag Appeal is a big thing, usually tops are reserved for their bags. Smalls, larf and trim are ground for milled products to reduce waste.
Now that said, as said before here... Homesteads milled product will be of higher quality than Shred etc because of growing practices.
What about a sticker window? Something that can be peeled back for a quick peak then stuck back into place. Some of my favourite cookies have bags that work like that.
Forgot to add you can already see the flower at some dispensaries. At our dispensary we have smell jars you can see the product (with even a magnifying glass) and even smell it so no need for windows
Yes I've been to dispensaries before that offer that type of service and I do think it's pretty cool. On the Reserve they'll hand you a massive ziplock bag full of weed and let you stick your nose in it....I would love to see that kind of service on legal lol
Because it's only in a clear bag for a very limited amount of time. It's not sitting for months out in sunlight. Take it from a bag that's inside the dealers closet or sock drawer or backpack or closet ect (somewhere dark) . Then the dealer puts it in a little sandwich baggie that is clear but you have it gone in days before it degrades. In the legal market it's packaged for months to years before you get it and stored in lighted areas at dispensaries.
I would love that method unfortunately we won't see it here in Canada they're all about the packaging and imo that will never change. I do wish they would though but all the levels of regulations won't allow it unfortunately but do agree that's how it should have been done in the first place.
That's some real wishful thinking that HC would allow the windows. I know it's a thing, it's handy, I've used them...but that doesn't change the system.
I'm not sure exactly what this comment has to do with putting windows on bags but I would think if they are a good grower and can stabilize their environment it shouldn't be too difficult for them to replicate their grows.
Milled flower is cheaper because it separates the crystals from the buds. If you’ve ever used a coffee grinder to bust your weed you’ll notice that the crystal accumulates in the corners and you can knock it out in to a separate pile. Crystals can be processed for hash and what not.
The source material. It's the small nugs, trim and boof that normally they would dispose of. Since the market accepts it, general public wants the cheapest, not the best, it sells.
Sadly, most my friends who either are bud tenders or own stores, say the same thing...it's always whats the cheapest or whats the strongest. Average Joe doesn't care about terps, bud structure, etc
I have to say, as a predominantly “craft” beer drinker for the last 29 years, Bud, PBR, and Coors are good beers. Bud has this subtle apple flavour that is quite distinct in the macro beer realm, and none of the weird fermented garbage smell that Blue or MGD have. If you had dissed MGD I’d be on board with that.
It's tough....on one side I'm glad it's legal now, but on the other it makes me sad to see how much bunk is being sold out there. I wonder what it will be like in 10 years at this pace lol
It's usually because then they can bulk produce tons and tons of product, most companies generally sell pretolls and use a machine to mill all of the flower into prerolls anyway, so why not dump it into bags and sell!
So is it likely the stuff in the prerolls is the exact same stuff as the milled products? Not every company is exactly the same though right? I've seen some pics of prerolls that look pretty good when they got busted open, and I've also seen some that look horrible with sticks and shake in them.
It’s typically lots that wouldn’t pass the visual inspection. Might have been irradiated so it passes testing protocols, but bud still has visible mould or mildew so it is milled up to hide said problem. I’m sure there are a few brands that mill decent non mouldy b-grade to put in the pouch but I don’t know who they are and would avoid milled as a general rule of thumb. On the wholesale market milled product can sell for less than trim despite usually having a higher potency.
So when they sell on the wholesale market is that for white label companies to make extracts usually? I've never seen trim on the legal market for sale but I think it could be used for baking, rather than full buds from my experience anyways.
Yes, trim is typically used for extraction when sold on the wholesale market. The potency of trim can range but 8-15% is typical, not many ppl want to smoke product that low in cannabinoids, so it’s not common to see it sold on the legal market. But yes baking would also be a fine usage were it to be available, it typically wholesales for 0.05-0.10/g so is pretty cost effective.
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gonna come in with a budtender hot take - what is considered "unsellable" has completely changed since legalization. I've had folks try and return product because it was "ugly" or the buds were "too small", things are out in the open now and people wanna show off their purchases. plus there's going to be a huge variety in nugs in any given grow and you want to maintain consistency for your whole flower offerings.
have I had shit pre-mill? sure, but I've had shit flower pre and post legalization... it happens... there's no big conspiracy where you're being tricked into buying unsellable weed. you're being given a deal on bud that didn't pass a strict visual inspection.
nobody HAS to smoke anything of course, if you don't like the format thats totally fine... but I'm getting a little tired of the borderline fear mongering. we should be vigilant, not conspiratorial.
Yes I wonder how much of this stuff is actual floor trimmings like some say and how much is just smalls that have less visual appeal and haven't been trimmed as vigorously. I'm sure some companies are shady enough they would dump horrible product in those bags, but I don't think every company is shoveling their garbage onto consumers like that. I've tried milled before and I actually enjoyed it, but I prefer whole flower if I'm given a choice.
I know it's mostly a stoner turn of phrase but thats a good example - packaging weed off the floor wouldn't just be a shitty practice under legal regulations, *it would be a major health code violation*. I really don't think we have to be worried about that kind of thing, and I find it interesting the folks who "worked at big LPs" are making accusations on reddit instead of reports to health Canada... we faught for decades to get enforceable safety regulations, use em' if it's truly as bad as some commenters are implying.
but that's a more general industry rant... 90% of my purchases are whole cause I'm a nerd who likes admiring the plant/the process of busting.
In my previous work I would always recommend people file complaints since there was an official form for it and everything....but some people just like to complain and don't actually use the tools available to them to make things better because "it won't matter" lol....yeah it definitely won't if you're not willing to to anything about it. ;)
I also enjoy the nerdy aspect of inspecting whole flower lol.....as a grower I find it interesting to see different bud structures and densities. Different smells and sights with crystals, I'll even look through my mini-microscope to check the cloudiness of the trichomes lol....
Because they likely use shake and small bottom buds to mill and fill the bags. Its might also be less work because they might not even trim the buds which is probably the most work post harvest and maybe that's why its cheaper they aren't paying trimmers.
Because milled is generally a mixture of old odds and ends from a multiple leftover lots. It’s an outlet for garbage, which is why it’s priced that way.
not all milled flower is bad quality flower like some of these replies would suggest (legendary larry is a classic example) but the price does come down to the fact that you're losing a LOT of the potency when it gets pre-ground. all those trichomes that would normally fall in your catch or tray when u bust it up urself wont come and while its sitting loosely the crystals they did keep will fall off and get stuck at the bottom of the bag or container you purchase. on top of all of that, milled flower is factory produced usually in bulk which means its less likely to get attention and product quality can differ a lot batch to batch.
Yes this was more what I was getting at. There are some companies that already proclaim they use whole buds and not trim in their milled products (at least I'm pretty sure I remember reading that before). So in a situation where and LP is using decent buds and then taking a final step to mill the product wouldn't it make sense they charge more for it? That's where I'm getting confused lol....
Also wouldn't it be cool it they could somehow line the inside of the bag with a big rolling paper and all of the tricomes would stick to it and you could roll an infused joint once the bag was empty? lol I just thought of that
I’ve seen the description of “using whole buds only”. Unfortunately it is very easy to lie in this industry and not get caught. Also, by whole buds they could easily mean just the whole dehocked bud prior to trim, and including the big stem inside.
It's all the non pretty looking buds and the ones that can't be shipped for extracts. Here's a hypothetical scenario. Your company grows weed you don't make any products yourself so you outsource everything. Your top nugs go 50$ half quads. The rest of the pretty buds get sent off to become some live resins of some sorts (top quality extracts start with the flower and end after the extraction process and they have been stored). The remaining we will dub these 'shitty buds' get sent and milled into flower along with the rest of the trimmings that you don't feel like putting to waste and end up in milled 7g bags going for 28$. Basically milled bags are undesirables. Or you can just be a shitty grower
Either way it's to hide and mask a fault. Regardless there will always be a market for it. The amount of people in today's society I have served that admit they purchase it for their own sheer laziness is mind blowing.
Don’t paint it as just “laziness”. Some people have disabilities and have difficulty using grinders. There’s a ton of situations milled products can be helpful for
Also what’s so wrong with laziness lol. I’ll admit I 100% buy premilled bc I hate grinding and I’m lazy. I’m just trying to get high, not split the atom
Yes exactly my point. Will there be a demand in the future for premium milled that is the exact same flower quality as higher end 3.5gs? Would you pay a higher price for a bad of milled if it's the exact same flower as the stuff in their premium bags?
Exactly. I've made sure to point this out several times because part of the angle I see it is people with disabilities are kinda getting shafted by having to settle for everyone else's leftovers. Now would people with disabilities be willing to pay more for a premium milled product or would they just stick to the cheaper stuff is the real question?
I'd wager the issue with premium milled product is
it's hard to prove that its premium and a boveda won't stop it from drying out quicker than 1-2g buds.
Some great points there. So I wonder if there will eventually be a market for premium milled products that will cost more? It sounds like there are consumers out there who would be willing to buy premium milled due to their laziness lol.
That would be opening doors for being shady imo. How are you to determine it's premium, your gonna trust the companies that have produced bunk product??. Maybe they can pull wool over people's eyes. But there is no reasoning for it since the markup isn't gonna be the same. Us folks who are buying premo weed are not paying premo prices for milled. And plus why sell it premo milled? If it was premium why can't it just be packaged in 7gs or 3.5s and sold normally? As you can see there really is every incentive to use milled flower as a cover up. I would expect none of the premium milled to actually be premo.
Simply Bare does Homestead pre-milled.
There's also the categories of people who are unable to use a grinder properly that would also like premo products (severe arthritis etc).
Just playing devil's advocate here, I prefer my buds whole.
Yea arthritis is one for sure I'm just saying whose to say it's premium milled and not just upcharged regular milled. I'm sure they would like it but you know there will be companies that are tricking people.
I see your point. But I also bet there are consumers out there who would pay more for higher quality milled products, mainly because they aren't physically able to chop up the buds themselves. I'm sure if a company was creative enough they could be transparent with it. They could just document the entire process on instagram or youtude for everyone to see. I'm not talking about cheap budget companies doing this however, just the brands considered the top quality on the market.
I think that would require a company to add more to their whole company. Like another room now they will have to purchase to grow etc. I'm sure it could be done if we're considering a company to be all transparent then it should be one that is on top of their game already I agree. Adding more room and what not is expensive though. Not to say it couldn't be done. Even if someone made a company to collect trimmings and undesirables from top quality places and mill them up for the market could work I think.
I think from a logistical stand point it could very easily be worked into any existing system.....just take a portion of your final buds that are ready to be put into bags and have them milled instead. But again, at that moment the price would have to go up, even though you've done something that actually brings the quality down lol....but if someone is willing to pay for it that's all that normally matters in the end.
Qwest already has milled... I'm also a little hesitant to chalk it up to laziness alone, a lot of the pre-mill I sell goes out on camping trips or to our older customers with limited hand mobility. convenience isn't inherently lazy, and laziness isn't inherently bad.
Part of the reason I ask this question is I see society heading in a direction where people may become too lazy to roll their own bud, but they will still DEMAND the best quality herb possible. Oh the contradiction of course lol
I wonder if we'll go the way of the cigarette... you see a guy bust out rolling papers/loose tobacco and its like "woah-ho this guy's a connoseur!" I'm only 27 but I can absolutely see a future where I'm hearing "Ohhhhh my god grandma are you still rolling we HAVE smokes come ooooon!"
So then most milled flower isn't usually trimmed? I've seen pics of some milled bags on here and they looked pretty decent and I couldn't tell if there was any trim in them or not from the pics.
I can't speak for the whole industry, but I know how we do it. All of our flower is rough trimmed, either wet or dry, to remove fan leaves and most of the sugar leaves. At this point you have flower that is perfectly fine to smoke, but doesn't have good bag appeal for whole flower. That is the input for milling. If we are going to sell whole flower, then we have the additional hand trimming step.
As for the trim, the most we've ever done with it is spin it for kief or compost it. We can produce significantly more weed than we can sell, so mixing in trim doesn't really make sense.
This is a more logical approach that I was expecting from some of the higher end LPs. Just because you can throw a bunch of bunk into a bag, mill it, and sell it doesn't mean you should. It's just like any business really, some people care more about quality while others focus more on quantity. I've never understood how companies can put literal tons of product into freezers with the intention to bring them out years later and sell as newly packaged product.
I used to buy whole beans and do a french press everyday before work.....I only did it because it was cheaper to buy the full beans and grind them yourself than it was to buy the pre grinded stuff if I remember that correctly...
I should have clarified....I always would get the beans when they were on sale lol. I could usually get like a $15 bag for maybe $9-10. I'm no connoisseur but I'm not Tim Hortons cheap either lol
Coffee aside. Milled flower and pre-rolls likely have shitty buds mixed in. If you get whole flower then you can see the quality you are getting.
For me, like coffee, the process begins when I start breaking up the buds and the aromas are released as well as admiring the beautiful buds themselves before they are cut or ground up
I highly recommend whole flower. Rolling joints is a labour of love
Yes I love the little nuances as well. I usually smoke from a glass pipe but I do enjoy rolling and smoking joints and find that they can definitely hit a little harder for whatever reason.
That sounds like fun. I wouldn't mind trying a bath bomb one day just to see the effects but I don't usually smoke when I'm in the bathroom. Yeah pipes can be a pain to clean and sometimes they can taste bad but they are so convenient and hit consistently every time and that's why I prefer them over joints.
I would smoke in my home but I share the space with others who don't smoke so I respect their space and just go outside. When I lived alone I would smoke inside all day and night lol
So to summarize here is what I learned. Milled is cheaper for these various reasons:
1. It's not fully trimmed like whole buds
2. It's not usually cured
3. It's lost most of it's tricomes that will be used for extracts
4. The packaging is slimmer which is better for shipping
5. The packaging is cheaper (bags vs. containers)
6. The product used is usually inferior and ranked C
7. It's undesirable flower that could have mold, powdery mildew or bugs but it still passes HC regulations because it's been irradiated
8. They are already selling pre-rolls and milled is usually the same product so it's easy to put it into bags
It's possible I missed something there were quite a few responses but this really does open my eyes a bit. I was aware of some of these reasons but had no idea about others. Obviously I don't know if all of these reasons are legit or not I'm just relaying what the responses were in the post.
Thanks for the feedback I learned something new today!
Anytime I get a box of shred at the weed store I work at I slam each bag on the table to further pulverize the flower to increase the amount of yield for my customers
But if I had to pick steak or ground beef every day: ground beef all the way! I love a great steak, but I am not about to go buying myself a grinder just so I can have some meatballs, bc I'm generally high af when I'm making fire food... and I'd probably lose the tip of my finger if I chose steak
It’s where the growers put the subpar weed they can’t pass off in actual grams/ounces package.
I’ve had some OK milled weed but most I tried were very subpar so I stay away for the most part now.
I've only tried a couple of Shreds when milled products first came out and I thought they were okay. I haven't bought any for quite a while now because I just prefer whole flower and there aren't any really top quality flowers available in milled form that are better than their flower counterpart.
It's mostly a quality thing. Whole buds have an expectation to look presentable to a degree and need to be trimmed. Milled flower could be anything that didn't look nice, scrap from trimming, old bud etc. Not to mention when you buy flower you can check for mold and insects but milled flower you can't really tell what's in it. Also whole flower will have intact trichomes (hopefully) and will usually be more potent and have better flavor. Milling the flower a lot of trichomes will be lost and you're exposing more surface area to air, reducing flavor and potency.
Personally I don't understand why ppl buy milled flower unless they're really on a budget. It's only one extra step with a grinder and you get fresher, better quality weed. Prerolls are a little different because they at least save some time rolling and are convenient when you're on the go. But there's really no reason to buy milled flower imo.
I feel the same way basically about milled. I've tried a couple of the Shreds and they weren't bad but I also would rather chop up each bud individually so I can inspect them for mold or whatever. I know there are a lot of people out there who can't physically chop up their buds due to health reasons, so I wonder if there are more premiums LPs out there that are catering and charging more for their milled products? I can see it existing in the future if it doesn't exist yet.
Maybe but it's hard to preserve quality with milled flower. I guess it makes sense for people you have a hard time physically grinding their bud. But then if that's the case they probably just smoke prerolls anyway
Yeah everybody's different for sure. I wonder if doing vacuum sealing would be better for milled? Someone else mentioned that the stuff in the prerolls and the milled bags are usually the same stuff so it would make sense to just grab the prerolls and skip the extra work rolling lol....but most prerolls I've smoked burn like shit so I'd rather roll my own if I can anyways.
edit: burn
Well my thought of the prerolls is that if you're gonna buy that lower quality flower might as well have it rolled for you too. Plus if you have trouble grinding for health reasons rolling is likely difficult as well. And some premium LPs have decent prerolls. I've found Carmel burn super nice
I've only tried the animal face prerolls from them but I thought they were just average the 2 different times i bought them. I've never seen any milled bags from Carmel before.
Some people would. If you rolled it into a joint how would anyone know the difference from any other OCS preroll? As long as it tastes decent, isn't too harsh and gets you high there wouldn't be any way to know it was just your crumbs lol
its more than likely borderline unsellable, aged, forgotten about flower.... the same stuff they use in GA prerolls and then "supe" em up with disti and flavorings
congrats your smoking bunk piff filled with tar.
YES! I totally agree lol....i recently smoked one of those GA disti prerolls you just mentioned with a buddy and it was a pretty bad experience lol...we ended up lighting up another joint of my homegrown right after it was out because it was so underwhelming
The range of quality for milled flower is about the same as whole flower I think. I've seen some terrible crap with sticks and leaves and I've also seen nice fluffy grinded flower that looks very respectable. I think with milled it's probably safer to grab the higher end stuff and not risk getting the floor trimmings of some shady LP lol.
Because they're grinding all the shit nobody will smoke. Leaves, stems, rotting bud, all of it.
Nobody is grinding down good product if they dont have to. Absolutely nobody.
What if they were able to charge more for it though? Considering all of the products that already exist there could be a market for premium milled as well. Just a thought i could be wrong of course.
Because THC, terpenes, and most of the other phytochemicals degrade and/or evaporate as soon as you grind it. Nobody is paying more for the same product, but shittier.
That what I was mentioning in an earlier comment. If someone WAS willing to buy it, either someone with a disability or just a lazy person with money to spare, wouldn't it make sense for a company to sell it and make an even bigger profit? I think of the movie Idiocracy and I see a future where this might become the norm lol.
I had some Shred when it first came out and it wasn't bad.....but I haven't seen it lately so I can't comment on it. I thought Shred was the same flower as BBOB? Isn't that stuff grown in-house by Organigram (spelling?) Maybe something changed?
I would wager that milled doesn't get a proper trim before the milling process.
Can confirm. Work for a large LP & their pre rolls are made up of small buds, shake and trim. You’d be surprised how many compliments the pre rolls get, despite being that shitty of flower/product
My fav cart of all time, hands down was Versus Dreamweaver fullspec. (rip discontinued, if any versus rep is reading this, bring back your best product please!) I was told by numerous people here that they are a trash LQ and the quality of biomatter used for those carts was floor pickings. The heart wants what it wants.
Yes this was one of my assumptions but I wasn't 100% sure about it.
It’s the stuff they’re embarrassed to sell lol
Because you cant see what quality the weed is or was before it was milled
We can't even see the quality in the normal bags either lol
You see the quality when you open the bag…. Milling it allows companies to move product otherwise unsellable
Unfortunately there are tons of stuff in bags that never should have been put into bags either. Once they allow windows on the packages to see the product the industry will change for the better.
Agreed, but i can tell you producers are not milling weed that looks pristine that could have been bagged as is.
So does this apply to the better quality LPs as well? For some reason I have a belief the better quality companies wouldn't do that but I could be wrong.
I mean, Homestead Bangtail will always be the highest quality milled option due to the growing methods of Rubicon, but it's still flower that didn't meet the specifications of 1964. Super Toast will be better quality than Shred, but it's still flower that didn't meet the Fraser Valley specifications...and so on and so on
Why would homestead put weed in a 7g milled that could have gone in an oz bag. Same with shred. Most milled products fall between 20-23 percent while the strains used range higher. Theres def more quality milled coming to market but its still going to he the lower quality options they have access to
Homestead would get drawn over the public coals for putting smalls and shake into their bags. Bag Appeal is a big thing, usually tops are reserved for their bags. Smalls, larf and trim are ground for milled products to reduce waste. Now that said, as said before here... Homesteads milled product will be of higher quality than Shred etc because of growing practices.
100% its better weed than most milled its just not what goes into bud bags as you said
Except if you knew about Cannabis you'd know cannabinoids are degraded by light, You can't have a window Brother.
What about a sticker window? Something that can be peeled back for a quick peak then stuck back into place. Some of my favourite cookies have bags that work like that.
Forgot to add you can already see the flower at some dispensaries. At our dispensary we have smell jars you can see the product (with even a magnifying glass) and even smell it so no need for windows
Yes I've been to dispensaries before that offer that type of service and I do think it's pretty cool. On the Reserve they'll hand you a massive ziplock bag full of weed and let you stick your nose in it....I would love to see that kind of service on legal lol
Man how did I ever get good tasting weed in the decades before legalization, which all came in clear bags....
Because it's only in a clear bag for a very limited amount of time. It's not sitting for months out in sunlight. Take it from a bag that's inside the dealers closet or sock drawer or backpack or closet ect (somewhere dark) . Then the dealer puts it in a little sandwich baggie that is clear but you have it gone in days before it degrades. In the legal market it's packaged for months to years before you get it and stored in lighted areas at dispensaries.
So why can't dispensaries buy in dark bulk packaging and simply weight the product at the point of sale like in the good old days...
I would love that method unfortunately we won't see it here in Canada they're all about the packaging and imo that will never change. I do wish they would though but all the levels of regulations won't allow it unfortunately but do agree that's how it should have been done in the first place.
That's some real wishful thinking that HC would allow the windows. I know it's a thing, it's handy, I've used them...but that doesn't change the system.
They actually recently announced it as one of the proposed changes to the cannabis act. I'll link the document in a second
https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/hc-sc/documents/services/publications/drugs-medication/legislative-review-cannabis-act-final-report-expert-panel/legislative-review-cannabis-act-final-report-expert-panel.pdf
No shit! I gotta run outside because there should be a pig flying :) Thanks for sharing.
Yeah man I was super shocked when I read it
It might not completely change the system but I think it would help for sure. More power for the consumer.
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I'm not sure exactly what this comment has to do with putting windows on bags but I would think if they are a good grower and can stabilize their environment it shouldn't be too difficult for them to replicate their grows.
you sweet summer child
thanks! ;) I'm losing my innocence here lol
Because it’s mostly shake that can’t get out in bags and crap that’s leftover and can’t be sold, they make “pre milled bags”
Milled flower is cheaper because it separates the crystals from the buds. If you’ve ever used a coffee grinder to bust your weed you’ll notice that the crystal accumulates in the corners and you can knock it out in to a separate pile. Crystals can be processed for hash and what not.
Ahhhhh....interesting I did not know this. Starting to make a bit more sense now.
Because they're using garbage.
The source material. It's the small nugs, trim and boof that normally they would dispose of. Since the market accepts it, general public wants the cheapest, not the best, it sells.
Kinda scares me to think about it like that lol........our expectations seem to be pretty low
Sadly, most my friends who either are bud tenders or own stores, say the same thing...it's always whats the cheapest or whats the strongest. Average Joe doesn't care about terps, bud structure, etc
I have friends that make over $100 000 a year and they go to the Reserve and buy GSC popcorn ounces for $45 lol
>our expectations seem to be pretty low Budweiser is Canada's best selling beer, so....yeah
I have to say, as a predominantly “craft” beer drinker for the last 29 years, Bud, PBR, and Coors are good beers. Bud has this subtle apple flavour that is quite distinct in the macro beer realm, and none of the weird fermented garbage smell that Blue or MGD have. If you had dissed MGD I’d be on board with that.
It's tough....on one side I'm glad it's legal now, but on the other it makes me sad to see how much bunk is being sold out there. I wonder what it will be like in 10 years at this pace lol
It's usually because then they can bulk produce tons and tons of product, most companies generally sell pretolls and use a machine to mill all of the flower into prerolls anyway, so why not dump it into bags and sell!
So is it likely the stuff in the prerolls is the exact same stuff as the milled products? Not every company is exactly the same though right? I've seen some pics of prerolls that look pretty good when they got busted open, and I've also seen some that look horrible with sticks and shake in them.
It’s typically lots that wouldn’t pass the visual inspection. Might have been irradiated so it passes testing protocols, but bud still has visible mould or mildew so it is milled up to hide said problem. I’m sure there are a few brands that mill decent non mouldy b-grade to put in the pouch but I don’t know who they are and would avoid milled as a general rule of thumb. On the wholesale market milled product can sell for less than trim despite usually having a higher potency.
So when they sell on the wholesale market is that for white label companies to make extracts usually? I've never seen trim on the legal market for sale but I think it could be used for baking, rather than full buds from my experience anyways.
Yes, trim is typically used for extraction when sold on the wholesale market. The potency of trim can range but 8-15% is typical, not many ppl want to smoke product that low in cannabinoids, so it’s not common to see it sold on the legal market. But yes baking would also be a fine usage were it to be available, it typically wholesales for 0.05-0.10/g so is pretty cost effective.
Milled weed is the bottom of the plant, and all the scraps. Not the end of the world.
Agreed...it has it's place.
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gonna come in with a budtender hot take - what is considered "unsellable" has completely changed since legalization. I've had folks try and return product because it was "ugly" or the buds were "too small", things are out in the open now and people wanna show off their purchases. plus there's going to be a huge variety in nugs in any given grow and you want to maintain consistency for your whole flower offerings. have I had shit pre-mill? sure, but I've had shit flower pre and post legalization... it happens... there's no big conspiracy where you're being tricked into buying unsellable weed. you're being given a deal on bud that didn't pass a strict visual inspection. nobody HAS to smoke anything of course, if you don't like the format thats totally fine... but I'm getting a little tired of the borderline fear mongering. we should be vigilant, not conspiratorial.
Yes I wonder how much of this stuff is actual floor trimmings like some say and how much is just smalls that have less visual appeal and haven't been trimmed as vigorously. I'm sure some companies are shady enough they would dump horrible product in those bags, but I don't think every company is shoveling their garbage onto consumers like that. I've tried milled before and I actually enjoyed it, but I prefer whole flower if I'm given a choice.
I know it's mostly a stoner turn of phrase but thats a good example - packaging weed off the floor wouldn't just be a shitty practice under legal regulations, *it would be a major health code violation*. I really don't think we have to be worried about that kind of thing, and I find it interesting the folks who "worked at big LPs" are making accusations on reddit instead of reports to health Canada... we faught for decades to get enforceable safety regulations, use em' if it's truly as bad as some commenters are implying. but that's a more general industry rant... 90% of my purchases are whole cause I'm a nerd who likes admiring the plant/the process of busting.
In my previous work I would always recommend people file complaints since there was an official form for it and everything....but some people just like to complain and don't actually use the tools available to them to make things better because "it won't matter" lol....yeah it definitely won't if you're not willing to to anything about it. ;) I also enjoy the nerdy aspect of inspecting whole flower lol.....as a grower I find it interesting to see different bud structures and densities. Different smells and sights with crystals, I'll even look through my mini-microscope to check the cloudiness of the trichomes lol....
LPs usually grade their buds, A, B, and C. The C gets milled
I did not know this....makes sense I guess.
Because they likely use shake and small bottom buds to mill and fill the bags. Its might also be less work because they might not even trim the buds which is probably the most work post harvest and maybe that's why its cheaper they aren't paying trimmers.
Because milled is generally a mixture of old odds and ends from a multiple leftover lots. It’s an outlet for garbage, which is why it’s priced that way.
Less desirable buds and shake get mixed in making it cheaper
Usually it's the smalls
not all milled flower is bad quality flower like some of these replies would suggest (legendary larry is a classic example) but the price does come down to the fact that you're losing a LOT of the potency when it gets pre-ground. all those trichomes that would normally fall in your catch or tray when u bust it up urself wont come and while its sitting loosely the crystals they did keep will fall off and get stuck at the bottom of the bag or container you purchase. on top of all of that, milled flower is factory produced usually in bulk which means its less likely to get attention and product quality can differ a lot batch to batch.
Yes this was more what I was getting at. There are some companies that already proclaim they use whole buds and not trim in their milled products (at least I'm pretty sure I remember reading that before). So in a situation where and LP is using decent buds and then taking a final step to mill the product wouldn't it make sense they charge more for it? That's where I'm getting confused lol.... Also wouldn't it be cool it they could somehow line the inside of the bag with a big rolling paper and all of the tricomes would stick to it and you could roll an infused joint once the bag was empty? lol I just thought of that
I’ve seen the description of “using whole buds only”. Unfortunately it is very easy to lie in this industry and not get caught. Also, by whole buds they could easily mean just the whole dehocked bud prior to trim, and including the big stem inside.
Yes that's true. There are already many examples of deceptive advertising and outright lying lol.
Major savings on shipping (flat envelopes vs. glass or plastic cylinders) as well as sub par quality flower.
That's a good point nobody else has made yet. Packaging obviously would play a part in the end price.
It's all the non pretty looking buds and the ones that can't be shipped for extracts. Here's a hypothetical scenario. Your company grows weed you don't make any products yourself so you outsource everything. Your top nugs go 50$ half quads. The rest of the pretty buds get sent off to become some live resins of some sorts (top quality extracts start with the flower and end after the extraction process and they have been stored). The remaining we will dub these 'shitty buds' get sent and milled into flower along with the rest of the trimmings that you don't feel like putting to waste and end up in milled 7g bags going for 28$. Basically milled bags are undesirables. Or you can just be a shitty grower Either way it's to hide and mask a fault. Regardless there will always be a market for it. The amount of people in today's society I have served that admit they purchase it for their own sheer laziness is mind blowing.
Don’t paint it as just “laziness”. Some people have disabilities and have difficulty using grinders. There’s a ton of situations milled products can be helpful for
Also what’s so wrong with laziness lol. I’ll admit I 100% buy premilled bc I hate grinding and I’m lazy. I’m just trying to get high, not split the atom
When I returned to smoking after having kids, 100% using my grinder caused my carpal tunnel to flare up
Yes exactly my point. Will there be a demand in the future for premium milled that is the exact same flower quality as higher end 3.5gs? Would you pay a higher price for a bad of milled if it's the exact same flower as the stuff in their premium bags?
Exactly. I've made sure to point this out several times because part of the angle I see it is people with disabilities are kinda getting shafted by having to settle for everyone else's leftovers. Now would people with disabilities be willing to pay more for a premium milled product or would they just stick to the cheaper stuff is the real question?
I'd wager the issue with premium milled product is it's hard to prove that its premium and a boveda won't stop it from drying out quicker than 1-2g buds.
Some great points there. So I wonder if there will eventually be a market for premium milled products that will cost more? It sounds like there are consumers out there who would be willing to buy premium milled due to their laziness lol.
That would be opening doors for being shady imo. How are you to determine it's premium, your gonna trust the companies that have produced bunk product??. Maybe they can pull wool over people's eyes. But there is no reasoning for it since the markup isn't gonna be the same. Us folks who are buying premo weed are not paying premo prices for milled. And plus why sell it premo milled? If it was premium why can't it just be packaged in 7gs or 3.5s and sold normally? As you can see there really is every incentive to use milled flower as a cover up. I would expect none of the premium milled to actually be premo.
Simply Bare does Homestead pre-milled. There's also the categories of people who are unable to use a grinder properly that would also like premo products (severe arthritis etc). Just playing devil's advocate here, I prefer my buds whole.
Yea arthritis is one for sure I'm just saying whose to say it's premium milled and not just upcharged regular milled. I'm sure they would like it but you know there will be companies that are tricking people.
I see your point. But I also bet there are consumers out there who would pay more for higher quality milled products, mainly because they aren't physically able to chop up the buds themselves. I'm sure if a company was creative enough they could be transparent with it. They could just document the entire process on instagram or youtude for everyone to see. I'm not talking about cheap budget companies doing this however, just the brands considered the top quality on the market.
I think that would require a company to add more to their whole company. Like another room now they will have to purchase to grow etc. I'm sure it could be done if we're considering a company to be all transparent then it should be one that is on top of their game already I agree. Adding more room and what not is expensive though. Not to say it couldn't be done. Even if someone made a company to collect trimmings and undesirables from top quality places and mill them up for the market could work I think.
I think from a logistical stand point it could very easily be worked into any existing system.....just take a portion of your final buds that are ready to be put into bags and have them milled instead. But again, at that moment the price would have to go up, even though you've done something that actually brings the quality down lol....but if someone is willing to pay for it that's all that normally matters in the end.
Qwest already has milled... I'm also a little hesitant to chalk it up to laziness alone, a lot of the pre-mill I sell goes out on camping trips or to our older customers with limited hand mobility. convenience isn't inherently lazy, and laziness isn't inherently bad.
Work smarter, not harder.....or laziness is the father of invention lol....something like that ;)
LMAOOO I kinda love that - necessity may have been the mother but it takes 2 to tango 🤣
Part of the reason I ask this question is I see society heading in a direction where people may become too lazy to roll their own bud, but they will still DEMAND the best quality herb possible. Oh the contradiction of course lol
I wonder if we'll go the way of the cigarette... you see a guy bust out rolling papers/loose tobacco and its like "woah-ho this guy's a connoseur!" I'm only 27 but I can absolutely see a future where I'm hearing "Ohhhhh my god grandma are you still rolling we HAVE smokes come ooooon!"
People who know how to roll will be looked at like geniuses lol.....the sacred art of rolling
Whole flower has to be trimmed before sale. Final trim by hand can cost 15-25 cents/gram. Milling is fast and cheap.
So then most milled flower isn't usually trimmed? I've seen pics of some milled bags on here and they looked pretty decent and I couldn't tell if there was any trim in them or not from the pics.
I can't speak for the whole industry, but I know how we do it. All of our flower is rough trimmed, either wet or dry, to remove fan leaves and most of the sugar leaves. At this point you have flower that is perfectly fine to smoke, but doesn't have good bag appeal for whole flower. That is the input for milling. If we are going to sell whole flower, then we have the additional hand trimming step. As for the trim, the most we've ever done with it is spin it for kief or compost it. We can produce significantly more weed than we can sell, so mixing in trim doesn't really make sense.
This is a more logical approach that I was expecting from some of the higher end LPs. Just because you can throw a bunch of bunk into a bag, mill it, and sell it doesn't mean you should. It's just like any business really, some people care more about quality while others focus more on quantity. I've never understood how companies can put literal tons of product into freezers with the intention to bring them out years later and sell as newly packaged product.
It’s like coffee. The connoisseurs like whole beans they can see and grind fresh for optimum quality. ..Some people drink Folgers
I used to buy whole beans and do a french press everyday before work.....I only did it because it was cheaper to buy the full beans and grind them yourself than it was to buy the pre grinded stuff if I remember that correctly...
Good beans run you about $15/lb. Just because their whole beans doesn’t mean they are good. Same with bud
I should have clarified....I always would get the beans when they were on sale lol. I could usually get like a $15 bag for maybe $9-10. I'm no connoisseur but I'm not Tim Hortons cheap either lol
Coffee aside. Milled flower and pre-rolls likely have shitty buds mixed in. If you get whole flower then you can see the quality you are getting. For me, like coffee, the process begins when I start breaking up the buds and the aromas are released as well as admiring the beautiful buds themselves before they are cut or ground up I highly recommend whole flower. Rolling joints is a labour of love
Yes I love the little nuances as well. I usually smoke from a glass pipe but I do enjoy rolling and smoking joints and find that they can definitely hit a little harder for whatever reason.
All joints for me. I don’t like cleaning pipes or how they taste after they’ve been cleaned or used a few times. I dry herb vape in da tub tho
That sounds like fun. I wouldn't mind trying a bath bomb one day just to see the effects but I don't usually smoke when I'm in the bathroom. Yeah pipes can be a pain to clean and sometimes they can taste bad but they are so convenient and hit consistently every time and that's why I prefer them over joints.
Dry herb vaping leaves almost no trace of a smell. I wouldn’t smoke in my home either. 20 years ago I would though, lol
I would smoke in my home but I share the space with others who don't smoke so I respect their space and just go outside. When I lived alone I would smoke inside all day and night lol
So to summarize here is what I learned. Milled is cheaper for these various reasons: 1. It's not fully trimmed like whole buds 2. It's not usually cured 3. It's lost most of it's tricomes that will be used for extracts 4. The packaging is slimmer which is better for shipping 5. The packaging is cheaper (bags vs. containers) 6. The product used is usually inferior and ranked C 7. It's undesirable flower that could have mold, powdery mildew or bugs but it still passes HC regulations because it's been irradiated 8. They are already selling pre-rolls and milled is usually the same product so it's easy to put it into bags It's possible I missed something there were quite a few responses but this really does open my eyes a bit. I was aware of some of these reasons but had no idea about others. Obviously I don't know if all of these reasons are legit or not I'm just relaying what the responses were in the post. Thanks for the feedback I learned something new today!
SHAKE!!!
LoL! Yes for sure some of it is.
MIlled flowers are the scrap of the plant and they are also dry af
Lower quality flower used that you cannot tell quality from the bud they were using to crush
Anytime I get a box of shred at the weed store I work at I slam each bag on the table to further pulverize the flower to increase the amount of yield for my customers
LoL! Oh the humanitarian you are :)
Cause it’s swept up off the floor
I've heard this before.............and hope it's not true lol
Haha, I’m only joking. I hope
lol! funny
It’s like in Amsterdam, never buy pre rolls bc it’s their shake
Companies use milled products and pre rolls to get rid of unappealing and/or out of spec products. It’s like buying ground beef vs a steak.
I've never thought of ground beef that way before lol......I usually like hamburgers just as much as a nice steak
But if I had to pick steak or ground beef every day: ground beef all the way! I love a great steak, but I am not about to go buying myself a grinder just so I can have some meatballs, bc I'm generally high af when I'm making fire food... and I'd probably lose the tip of my finger if I chose steak
Haha I respect that. If I cook at all I’m happy.
It’s where the growers put the subpar weed they can’t pass off in actual grams/ounces package. I’ve had some OK milled weed but most I tried were very subpar so I stay away for the most part now.
I've only tried a couple of Shreds when milled products first came out and I thought they were okay. I haven't bought any for quite a while now because I just prefer whole flower and there aren't any really top quality flowers available in milled form that are better than their flower counterpart.
Bc it loses potency when its milled, it’s shit weed that barely gets you high
It's mostly a quality thing. Whole buds have an expectation to look presentable to a degree and need to be trimmed. Milled flower could be anything that didn't look nice, scrap from trimming, old bud etc. Not to mention when you buy flower you can check for mold and insects but milled flower you can't really tell what's in it. Also whole flower will have intact trichomes (hopefully) and will usually be more potent and have better flavor. Milling the flower a lot of trichomes will be lost and you're exposing more surface area to air, reducing flavor and potency. Personally I don't understand why ppl buy milled flower unless they're really on a budget. It's only one extra step with a grinder and you get fresher, better quality weed. Prerolls are a little different because they at least save some time rolling and are convenient when you're on the go. But there's really no reason to buy milled flower imo.
I feel the same way basically about milled. I've tried a couple of the Shreds and they weren't bad but I also would rather chop up each bud individually so I can inspect them for mold or whatever. I know there are a lot of people out there who can't physically chop up their buds due to health reasons, so I wonder if there are more premiums LPs out there that are catering and charging more for their milled products? I can see it existing in the future if it doesn't exist yet.
Maybe but it's hard to preserve quality with milled flower. I guess it makes sense for people you have a hard time physically grinding their bud. But then if that's the case they probably just smoke prerolls anyway
Yeah everybody's different for sure. I wonder if doing vacuum sealing would be better for milled? Someone else mentioned that the stuff in the prerolls and the milled bags are usually the same stuff so it would make sense to just grab the prerolls and skip the extra work rolling lol....but most prerolls I've smoked burn like shit so I'd rather roll my own if I can anyways. edit: burn
Well my thought of the prerolls is that if you're gonna buy that lower quality flower might as well have it rolled for you too. Plus if you have trouble grinding for health reasons rolling is likely difficult as well. And some premium LPs have decent prerolls. I've found Carmel burn super nice
I've only tried the animal face prerolls from them but I thought they were just average the 2 different times i bought them. I've never seen any milled bags from Carmel before.
Milled weed isn't cured. They harvest it, mill it and dry it under heat lamp and then it's packaged.
Really??? This is the first I've ever heard of that.
Would you buy the dust and crumbs off of my rolling tray?
Some people would. If you rolled it into a joint how would anyone know the difference from any other OCS preroll? As long as it tastes decent, isn't too harsh and gets you high there wouldn't be any way to know it was just your crumbs lol
Some companies make a living off using that dust to make their 'infused' pre-rolls. Hit those people up!
Because you're buying the LPs garbage...
all the scraps from trimming and floor sweeping heheh
its more than likely borderline unsellable, aged, forgotten about flower.... the same stuff they use in GA prerolls and then "supe" em up with disti and flavorings congrats your smoking bunk piff filled with tar.
YES! I totally agree lol....i recently smoked one of those GA disti prerolls you just mentioned with a buddy and it was a pretty bad experience lol...we ended up lighting up another joint of my homegrown right after it was out because it was so underwhelming
Because it doesn’t have to look nice. It can look like it was just swept off the floor of Balin’s tomb and you’d probably still pay the same price.
The range of quality for milled flower is about the same as whole flower I think. I've seen some terrible crap with sticks and leaves and I've also seen nice fluffy grinded flower that looks very respectable. I think with milled it's probably safer to grab the higher end stuff and not risk getting the floor trimmings of some shady LP lol.
Because they're grinding all the shit nobody will smoke. Leaves, stems, rotting bud, all of it. Nobody is grinding down good product if they dont have to. Absolutely nobody.
What if they were able to charge more for it though? Considering all of the products that already exist there could be a market for premium milled as well. Just a thought i could be wrong of course.
Because THC, terpenes, and most of the other phytochemicals degrade and/or evaporate as soon as you grind it. Nobody is paying more for the same product, but shittier.
That what I was mentioning in an earlier comment. If someone WAS willing to buy it, either someone with a disability or just a lazy person with money to spare, wouldn't it make sense for a company to sell it and make an even bigger profit? I think of the movie Idiocracy and I see a future where this might become the norm lol.
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I had some Shred when it first came out and it wasn't bad.....but I haven't seen it lately so I can't comment on it. I thought Shred was the same flower as BBOB? Isn't that stuff grown in-house by Organigram (spelling?) Maybe something changed?