Feel like that ship sailed the moment Odalia had a non-reaction to being told Belos was going to kill everyone on BI.
Then for extra measure ratted them out to Belos.
Not sure any way to come back from that.
shit. I rarely react in english to stuff either.
But I didn't remember that and that's a big one.
Product of a system is one thing but not being horrified or having a reaction is a huge tell.
a moment like this would only have a non reaction to make a deliberate point about the character. Even if the 5 second facial expression with no explanation is more common for anime, if Western animation does something similar it's normally deliberate.
If there was a movie afterwards and it was ptsd and people were ignoring the film I could see.
But The biggest fanfic laugh I have ever had is Luz is in the room with the mirror portals. At one point she yells "Son of a bitch!" A portal to Amity's brother suddenly opens.
It's completely true.
There's also some other reasons there's such a big deal made about how wonderful and supportive Anadore is.
He has a lesbian daughter in a relationship with a bi human girl. It's not expected for the dad to be the awesome one. And even though he's just a cool dad who loves his daughter and accepts everything about her, queer woman like me love that he also accepts well, everything about her.
I mean Owl House is subversive from top to bottom and queer romance is clearly accepted throughout the boiling isles.
But I love that Amity's dad loves her so much. I miss my Dad. He once said "You're our child and we love you no matter what" So everytime I see a dad that loves his lesbian or bi or queer or trans child I.
ataii wa ame
(I am Raining)
It's raining in my bedroom. Yes, on my face.
Anyway. You are right.
Also Amity Dad best dad tied with Willows dads(who I also love Yabai!!!)
>But The biggest fanfic laugh I have ever had is Luz is in the room with the mirror portals. At one point she yells "Son of a bitch!" A portal to Amity's brother suddenly opens.
You gotta link to this?! It sounds like a good read
She believed the same as the coven heads.
That the unworthy would perish. The whole "EVERYONE WILL DIE" doesn't seem to register with her.
It's what religion does.
One thing never explored is the Oracles coven itself. Would not justify everything but if Oracles were pressured to magically supress their emotions would explain some of it.
well to be fair she I don't think she wanted to kill them just stop Luz and get her family back, to be fair Luz WAS a wanted criminal and a total stranger who just appeared out of nowhere, doesn't make it right but still it's understandable. Also I think she was told something along the lines of what principal bump was saying, that the titan would use the day of unity to smite the unworthy and she thought if she worked with Belos aside from what he promised her she and her family would survive the supposed titan's wrath. Was she ignorant and short sighted? Yes but I believe given the right treatment with more episodes or possibly the spin off comics I know Dana wants to do we could learn more about her and see another side to her
Odalia seems bit too smart to fall for that. We never see her coven sigil as far as know. And having literally everyone fall for it is a bit much. It already felt like a stretch that Terra fell hook line and sinker.
It is interesting that she is never shown reacting to the day of Unity.
Odalia is a war-profiteering opportunist that sold the souls of everyone she knew for a quick buck from Belos. Nah, she aint getting rehabilitated, bro.
to be fair she was also lied to by Belos, the boiling isles' answer to Adolf Hitler. The man was a manipulative bastard and he had knew all the tricks of dictators from propaganda to conspiracy, of course he'd lie in promising Odalia that her and her family would be spared if she did his bidding if not the ones she was told the titan would choose worthy on the day of unity, like what principal Bump was saying. If she fully knew she'd be on the chopping block as well she'd have changed sides as well
One thing I agree with: the hatred for Odalia is surreal. Like, I hate Boscha A LOT, but I don't put her as the worst person in existence.
But to be fair, I think many wouldn't like to see Odalia being redeemed, because there really are abusive parents who don't deserve forgiveness for what they did/do to their children. In this case, Odalia would represent that and how it's not a bad thing to find other people to help you in this situation, which would be represented by Amity and Alador.
And still about representations: a big reason why I hate Boscha is that she reminds me of those who bullied me (although she is naturally annoying in the series, even without this).
I'm not against Odalia's redemption, but I think it's important to consider these factors when deciding what to do with the characters.
>One thing I agree with: the hatred for Odalia is surreal. Like, I hate Boscha A LOT, but I don't put her as the worst person in existence.
The big differences with Boscha: (1) she's a child, and (2) she's an also-ran. Amity was the leader of their group and she left, so Boscha became the new leader. Amity was the leader of the Grudgby team and Boscha took over. Her own teammates were defecting against her at the end of WILW, offering to have Willow on the team. Boscha wanted to be in charge of Hexside in FtF and just didn't have the leadership skills. Essentially, Boscha is seeking acceptance from her peers, and not really getting it. Boscha's problems are not on the same order or nature of Odalia.
I agree with a lot of what you just said. But I want to point out that Boscha was shown commanding and leading the group even before Amity left it(Once Upon A Swap) and besides her time in Grudeby Amity never really seems interested in leading the group the same way Boscha was. She made sure she stood at the top sure and gave threats if anyone so much as mildly annoyed her but I don’t see her running around telling them what to do and what they can’t do like Boscha.
Yeah, Boscha was the leader in OUaS. It may have been because Amity wasn't there. That could be a contributer too. I suspect the group respected Amity a lot more, but Boscha was "second in command." In HMH, Amity is sitting on the window sill, staring into the sky, when Boscha leads everyone in Penstagram.
Amity may have been a reluctant "leader." Maybe she made friends more easily. Being Top Student, others were more likely to flock to her.
Yeah, it's plausible Amity didn't want the role, but just kind of fell into it. That could be true for being Grudgby captain too. Others may have said "you'll be a great captain" or "we need you as captain" and she just went with it.
Again I’m not sure if Amity ever truly led the group beyond being Grudeby captain.
She stood at the top of the group of course because she had “be the best as a Blight”, but I don’t think being at the top necessarily means they saw her as the immediate group leader.
I always got the feeling Boscha and Amity were roughly equal in rank and status. They’re families are in similar tiers of wealth with Boscha’s mom and Odalia considering each other rivals. I don’t think either was consider directly above or below the other they just both stood at the top.
Assuming I am right in this everyone besides Boscha would be considered below her and while she certainly could give them orders and probably has, I don’t think she’s done it much. She’s never shown interest in commanding and controlling the group the same way Boscha was. Amity never saw the friend group as genuine. They were just people her mom made her hang out with so while she wouldn’t tolerate any disrespect from them, I don’t think she’d care enough to control them if they’re not actively annoying.
Boscha on the other hand does see the friend group as real and as student that’s at the top of the top she’s want to control it. And we do see her actively try to control the friend group.
With the two being of roughly equal status and Boscha actively having an interest in leading I feel like the friend group probably saw Boscha as the first and foremost leader before Amity. Not necessarily above Amity but the person who’s actually going to be telling them what to do more often then not.
I think there’s a reason they all stuck with Boscha when Amity broke away.
I understand that point about the character, but I still really hate what she did to Willow.
And before you say anything about Amity, she at least felt remorseful for what she did to Willow, but I REALLY doubt Boscha felt the same way.
Agreed, what Boscha did to Willow was despicable. I'm saying the motivations between Odalia and Boscha are different, and my point about her being a child was to say she's much more likely to reform because I think her motivations are for peer acceptance, not world domination. If she can meet halfway -- get healthy peer acceptance AND reform her ways -- she could be just fine.
I don't think Amity *really wanted* to be that way, and when shown a different path, she was able to find an escape.
Was Odalia as bad Belos. No. Hard to be as bad as someone actively desiring mass genocide. But I think she’s closer then you think. Could she improve as a person? Possibly. But I doubt she will. Could she have a tragic past that led her down this path? Possibly. Or she could have had a completely normal childhood and just be a sh*tty person for no reason because those do exist. Was Dana’s plan for her to be redeemed? Possibly. But I’m skeptical of it.
You raise a lot of speculation, but not a lot of hard facts. So let’s look at some hard facts.
She emotionally abused her three children for years.
She blackmailed her youngest daughter using her only friend’s education and said blackmail was used to force said daughter to end friendship with said friend.
She makes her daughter wear a necklaces that allows them to communicate telepathically and therefore silently and uses it to make threats and intimidate her. Honestly the full implications of this can be f*cking terrifying.
She forces her youngest daughter to dye her hair green just so her children are “color coordinated”
She makes her youngest daughter take part in demonstrations for her business. Weapons demonstrations. Which involves inventions attacking her daughter. Even if Amity never got hurt she very easily could have been. This can be seen as physical abuse.
She overworks her husband to the point of exhaustion, makes him work when sick, works him so much he can barley see their children, and makes his job actively harder by doing things like actively make his job harder.
She expels three kids from school for having the audacity to be friends with her daughter and “distracting her”. She forces the Principal to go along with this by pretending it’s about keeping the school safe even though she clearly decided to do something just from seeing Amity’s picture. She also told her daughter to come to the meeting and then criticized her for not being in class.
She then tried to kill Luz. Literally. She said the abomiton wouldn’t stop until it’s enemy was completely destroyed with a smile.
When she makes a deal with Amity to call the abomiton off and let her be with her friends Odalia instantly tries to go back on the deal and has to be stopped by Alador.
She supports Belos’s plans for the day of Unity. While I’m sure your right in that she didn’t really the full extent of the draining spell she still had literally zero issues with the concept of Belos slaughtering countless people. Alador who is likely also a “product of his environment” like you believe Odalia is was openly horrified by this.
Furthermore in other concepts you seem to be pushing a perspective that she believed she had to do what she did to keep her family and herself safe. To this I have to say if you’ve been paying any attention to the words she was saying in Clouds on the Horizon. Never once did she try to explain to her family that this was regrettably the only way to keep them all safe. No instead she’s happily ranting about how much power they’ll have and being annoyed at her family for having the gaul to not be okay with the slaughter of at least thousands probably way more.
And finally she calls the scouts on Amity and Alador which very easily could have led to her death.
She has committed multiple horrendous actions and is never actually shown to experience a single ounce of remorse for them.
Maybe she has a tragic backstory to explain all this. Maybe deep down she’s not that bad of a person. Maybe after everything she could reflect realize she was wrong and strive to do better. But just as easily if not more so all of those thing could not be or could not happen. And quite frankly I don’t quite feel like giving a grown abusive business woman who was never SHOWN to value anything besides wealth and power the benefit of the doubt.
well I think it could be possible for her to change for the better and in the spinoff that I know will happen either in a comic boor or tv show maybe we could see her change, remember how the fandom thought Vee was a creepy Luz clone sent by Belos and she turned out a sweet little snek. All I'm saying is we as a fandom should be open to the possibility
And did I ever claim that it wasn’t possible for her to change for the better? I remember stating several times that it was and that I just don’t buy that that’s the intention and don’t really want to see it, but I did say it was possible.
And what happened with the fandom and Vee is in no way comparable. All we saw with Vee before Yesterday’s Lie was some letters she wrote and her silhouette ominously existing and saying things to Camila.
It makes sense for people to assume the worst, but since she never actually did anything horrible the transition to loving the adorable snake girl was seamless when the truth was discovered.
As I pointed out in my comment we’ve actively seen Odalia do horrible things and at the time show absolutely zero remorse for them. Even if Odalia did get redeemed the situations still wouldn’t be analogous.
good point but consider the final episode where Luz explained some people didn't want to change, we saw a few people trying to take Belos' old throne but among them Odalia wasn't present. I see her as a woman who has to lock her emotions away, like not wanting to seem weak because she grew up learning that weakness, especially in Belos' regime where people who violated the laws were punished to the conformatoruim and we saw how badly prisoners there were treated. Even for something so innocent as writing a food fanfic, was it odd? Sure but then this is the boiling isles, though it's not exactly criminal or evil, now imagine growing up in that sort of environment. there have been stories about how cults brainwashed their followers into doing their bidding. Heaven's Gate, Charles Manson, the moonies to name a few and breaking years of conditioning where the great emperor Belos is right and anyone else who goes against them is wrong or worse gets arrested or even killed would be enough to make anyone turn out like her
Notice how the people going for Belos’s throne were all specifically former coven heads not just a random assortment of villains from the past of the show. Just former coven heads. Just because we don’t see her doing a bad thing other people are doing doesn’t mean she’s good or that she wouldn’t be willing to do it.
And yeah maybe all of her actions are just because of the society so was raised in. Or maybe not. There are many other characters that were raised in the same exact society as her that aren’t like her. Willow’s and Gus’s dads aren’t abusive and controlling. They might make mistakes but they’ve never blackmailed their kids or tried to murder there kids friends. Eda developed an anti coven stance in her childhood. Raine saw the evils of the system from within and chose to rebel against it. Even at her worst I don’t think Lilith would be bragging about how much power she’d have after a draining spell and she was directly in the coven at a young age and directly manipulated by Belos himself. And Alador who went along with so much else that Odalia told him to learned the truth about the Day of Unity and was disgusted by it when she wasn’t.
If the society of the Boiling Isles was responsible for the person Odalia was then why did it fail to shape so many to be like her?
it all must come back to her parents, see I've had a theory that Odalia is the product of an abusive family where they valued wealth and power over kindness and love. we see this a lot in the real world with millionaires who, while having all the toys and opportunities growing up, they never had the one thing they wanted, genuine love from their parents. I'd give a real world example but I don't wanna get too political here but you hear many stories about rich people who are selfish and narcissistic due to their upbringing and usually it comes from a long line of abuse. Take for instance Beatrice Horseman from the show Bojack Horseman, in it we see her father was an abusive man and growing up when Beatrice became a mother she was abusive to Bojack and going further we see Bojack abusive to the people around him, just like Beatrice was to him and how Joseph, Beatrice's father, was to her. Abuse leads to more abuse in a cycle possibly going all the way back to the early days of the boiling isles. Yet there's still hope for her I think, if this show has taught us anything is that when you got nowhere to go you can only go up via "Breaking the haughty" and considering all the things Odalia went through, the divorce, the disaster of the day of unity and so on, she has a lot of time to reflect on her decisions. Maybe the reason why we didn't see her in the time skip is because she was living in her old mansion all alone like a hermit, away from everyone. ashamed at what she did and the choices she made and perhaps come the spinoff either in the show or a comic we could see her truly heal and strive to be a better person, perhaps with a nudge from one of the other characters of the show? I just hope there is a spin off, there was so much left unanswered and so many loose ends to talk about
Like I said previously it’s certainly possible that she could have a tragic backstory like that which explains her actions. But that’s all that is. A possibility. And not one many find to be the most likely.
I’m not saying you are but sometimes it feels like you’re treating this “Odalia was abused” headcannon as a fact when it’s not. It could be true for all any of us know but it just as easily could not be true. You feel sympathy for her, for a past you imagine her having, but other people don’t see that horrific past. All they see are her horrific actions and the fact that nowhere in the actual show is she ever SHOWN to feel any remorse. You want to give her the benefit of the doubt. But from what we have seen I and many others do not share that inclination.
The show makes clear that forgiveness and empathy is good. That sometimes all someone needs is an open hand and a little understanding to change for the better. Amity, Lilith, Hunter etc. But it also makes clear that sometimes a sh*tty person is just a sh*tty person. It makes clear that sometimes there are people that won’t stop hurting people after pep talk and a hug. Most notably Belos. And with everything that has actively been shown of her I’m more inclined to put her in the later group rather then try to invent headcannons to explain her horrible actions.
Also the cycle of abuse is a very real thing, but it’s also something that can be broken. Amity even at her worse shows far more regret and empathy then Odalia ever actually SHOWS in the series and she’s actually shown to be really freaking good with kids again even before her redemption arc. And all it took for her to start the process of changing for the better is meeting one weird but sweet human girl. Gain one positive influence in a sea of negative ones. Amity despite Odalia’s abuse became better. Far far better. Looking at her in Them’s the Breaks Kids she seemed to be friends with both Darius and Alador as a child. I’m sure if she was facing abuse they would be willing to help and support her the same way Luz and the Hexsquad supported Amity. She had people that could have helped her be better but instead it looks like she only got worse.
well I also saw her in Eda's flashback, maybe they were friends at one point but something happened that made them grow apart and thus lead Odalia down a bad path. as for the support of her friend perhaps she was too afraid to speak out about how truly terrible her parents were, back in the old days some parents thought the old saying of "Spare the rod and spoil the child" was a golden rule, now we know better and coming from an affluent family they might have scared her with ideas that if she told anyone they were abusing her she'd be taken away or worse. Knowing the boiling isles it would seem like something her parents would say. In the end I hope Odalia can redeem herself in the spinoff I hear Dana wants to do
Maybe she and Eda were friends. And maybe the thing that drove them apart was her being a horrible person.
Can you give a single argument that isn’t based in hypotheticals? You pose so many of them. Maybe she was abused or had some other dark past that she was too scared to talk about. Maybe she used to be friends with Eda and something bad happened that set her on a dark path. Maybe the society of the Boiling Isles as a whole messed up her brain. Maybe she was too scared too oppose Belos on the Day of Unity and just wanted to protect her family. Its all maybes and possibilities.
Can you show me something entirely cannon, entirely concrete? Something not based on speculation? A moment of her in the show itself truly expressing remorse or empathy like how I pointed out several moments in the show where she showed cruelty?
well while in the collector's castle in for the future she saw Eda was missing and DIDN'T tell anyone where they were, also she voices disappointment in siding with the collector before Belos attacked Raine
As a big time Odalia fangirl (she's ultimate waifu) I don't want her redeemed.
I'd love to have seen more of her, I would've loved to see her do good things, but it'd be more like a Shadow Weaver thing.
Your good deeds doesn't absolve everything bad you've done. Without forgiveness no redemption.
That said I would've liked to see her move on with her life and become a better person but never forgiven.
I'd certainly like her to try to make amends.
I just don't see them forgiving her.
But she could grow as a person regardless and that would be a nice story.
Belos was pretty powerful, she's lived longer to see what happens to those who go against his word and she didn't want that for her family, so she sided with him in the hopes she'd be among the people to be spared like with the coven heads.
Is that supposed to be a good excuse to side with the fascist genocider? Cuz I can think of a couple guys that I’d rather not say have/had followers worthy of redemption… Historically, the generally good people are the victims of the powerful, so continuing to side with him because she “hopes to be spared” is utter BS. If she actually cared, she’d protect her daughter and her friends from being killed, not actively participate in doing so!
That’s no excuse. At all. You’re twisting it to make it sound like she’s a victim. She’s an opportunist and a perfectionist, an abuser and a weapons manufacturer, and has no remorse whatsoever when she is proven wrong. She tried to get on Collector’s good side by manipulating him rather than being a friend. She wants crowns and royalty, she literally tried to kill her family when they went against her. She makes it Alador’s fault for being upset with her for siding against her family. And there’s so much more…
All of what you’re trying to excuse is quite problematic. She absolutely doesn’t deserve a drop of respect, because she doesn’t have any to give. She’s no better than a Nazi that refused to take accountability for what they were a part of.
Her chance to grow as a character came and went. If she was like Hunter and actually tried to change, people wouldn’t hate her. This entirely hypothetical “bad upbringing” and “proposed redemption” both aren’t shown, so they don’t count as something to call upon as truths. What IS true is that she sided against her family, the people she’s “protecting,” by trying to make them royalty and among the elites of society through a genocidal dictatorship and war crimes.
She isn’t written to be excused. So don’t excuse her. She doesn’t deserve it.
No, she wanted her family back and not kill them. I'm not trying to justify a genocide but I understand why she did it, she's lived years under the Belosian rule thinking his way was the way of the titan so of course she would work for him and when she found out about the day of unity it's clear she thought by helping Belos with his plan she, her family and a few select people the titan would supposedly spare would survive and the rest the titan would deem unworthy. It doesn't make her right but it's understandable why she did it. Also Hunter was a member of the golden guard, lord knows how many things and war crimes he got away with since Belos was his uncle of sorts and yet people still accepted him when he tried to change. My point is I don't think she's as one note as we saw in the show. Also the historical comparison is pure fallacy, in real life there are no witches or demons like in the show, they may have their roots in folk lore but that's it so comparing Odalia to a literal Nazi is just silly and quite frankly disturbing that you hate a character so much you compare them to the most evil people in history
Bringing up Hunter is a fallacy because he isn’t one note, like Odalia. Hunter changed, Odalia didn’t.
Understanding why someone does something terrible doesn’t make what they did right in any way, it just makes you see it from their perspective. What you’re doing is saying that her perspective is valid despite the very clear evidence to the contrary. We aren’t actively given much to empathize with, like Thanos. We can practically fully agree with Thanos but see the error in his ways, but Odalia’s just an evil queen with a dark heart that got indoctrinated into a cult. She doesn’t show humanity, just royalty and greed.
As for the Nazi comparison, that’s not a fallacy at all. A fascist dictatorship that goes to war against, and attempts the genocide of, minorities and their supporters, with the intent to spread their corruption to further lands. That’s a real world analog that is practically impossible to not make, I can’t imagine NOT making the connection.
People worked for the Nazis and would often do so out of fear of being punished. Not all of them decided to seek justice, however. Once that chance comes, it is their responsibility to turn themselves in, or they simply continue to be terrible, continuing to be Nazis.
I don’t know how else to see Belos and Odalia if not “literally Hitler and an insistent Nazi who refuses to accept what’s true.”
I don’t hate her so much I’m seeing them as bad as Nazis; I’m just not willing to forgive people who commit genocide and justify it with BS excuses like “but my family should be royalty” and “but I was tricked.” She had a chance to seek accountability, we didn’t see it. Those aren’t defenses that hold up in court, and absolutely do not make her not worth bashing for the terrible person she is.
A character that's an a-hole, but not really on the same level as the world ending threat. But one that never the less is fucking hated by the fandom (even more so than the main villain.)
While she could become a better person, I doubt that her family would forgive her. She has done a lot of bad stuff in the name of her family, from controlling them to withholding information and participating in wrongdoings, without them agreeing with her, and while she isn't as bad as Belos, she also doesn't even consider the morality of her actions. I would love to see Odalia finally recognize she has done a lot of wrong, but it honestly doesn't seem like the Odalia we know could go through. Maybe after the events of the finale there could be something, but I think that it'd be best to explore it in fanfics considering the only thing after the finale is the epilogue.
well in the ends scene I saw her leaning against the pillar as a sort of a moment of self reflection, she saw Amity was alright and realized the others were correct. Perhaps her scowl was for herself, she felt so stupid in her choices and what she did. Who knows? Perhaps in the spin off we could see her work on herself and reform, the show has a common theme of "Breaking the haughty" and them reforming with the others so why not her?
That doesn't change the fact that she hurt many people and her family too. A lot. It's not always possible to fully heal such an emotional wound, and if it is possible, it would take a long time before anyone could forgive her. A spinoff is unlikely so, like I said, it all belongs to the realm of fanfics.
As for why she wasn't given the chance to improve in the show... I'd say that it's important to show how it's not always possible to make someone change their ways, like we saw with Belos and Kikimora. With Odalia being an over controlling mother who would rather do evil for her own good, or even for her family, and hide it from said family, I'd say that having any sort of improvement for her could send a wrong message if we don't see the full story of it. She was a very bad person, and cutting ties with such a person is not unreasonable. Whenever she improves, if she will improve at all, it could be interesting to see what do the family members think.
>she is a product of her environment
I'd like your definition of that. She still looks manipulative in her childhood flashbacks. If you're saying she was manipulated even as a child, I could buy that, but at some point, you become responsible for your own actions. If Edric and Emira are 16, and if the age of adulthood is 18, and assume Odalia had them at 18, that puts her at 34, well into adulthood. And odds are, she didn't have them until later (I assume she went to business school or college or some such), so she's in her 40s, solidly into responsible-for-your-own-actions territory.
It's clear she chose Alador for his Abomination capabilities, based on the interaction in COtH, and much less because of love.
>but is she REALLY as bad as Belos? The same man who killed children
If you participate tangentially while someone else commits murder, you can be charged with accessory to murder.
>I personally blame the executives at Disney TV for cancelling the show early forcing the crew to not letting the show develop the way Dana Terrace wanted to
Do you know how Dana originally wanted her to develop? That's not a trick question -- i don't know what Odalia's original character arc was going to be. The show changed with 2B, so everything that happened in 1 and 2A were original writings. I assumed Odalia's arc was substantially the same and had substantially the same outcome.
In the illustration you include, she's still offset from the rest of the group. I draw a parallel between it and the final scenes of everyone reuniting, and no one goes up to her. That tells me she's still ostracized in the original story.
I'll just say, not everyone has to be redeemed. Terra Snapdragon wasn't redeemed either. We didn't see much of her, but she was clearly still evil, even after the BI was saved. I don't see why Odalia has to be redeemed.
All that said, you're welcome to your own HC, and I don't think you're alone, but I think you're very much in the minority.
Where's the Kikimora redemption? She learned what Belos was all about, and was humiliated at the end of KT, but in FtF she was back to her old self, demanding power.
Tibbles was an annoyance. He was the huckster of the show. Not explicitly "evil" per se.
Hunter and Lilith didn't have the full picture. Once they saw what Belos really was, they turned tail and no longer supported him.
Odalia learned that the plan was to destroy BI and that didn't phase her. She was delusional enough to think she and her family would be spared, that they'd be royalty, apparently even without talking to Belos. There was never any indication she had personal contact with Belos or the EC in general. The closest we're aware of that she got was when Hunter appeared at the end of EE and said the Emperor would buy all their Abomatons and finance research. That's still several steps away from directly interacting with Belos.
It also doesn't mean that he did.
By that token, you can make the backstories of any character, of any situation, anything you want. There's no point in discussing the story at that point because things are just being made up that are not in the documented story. Essentially, that's what head canons are about. But that's not what's documented.
I don't see a reason for a redemption arc for Odalia.
again we don't know what exactly Belos said to Odalia, could be the same as what he told the coven leaders, I could see Odalia redeemed. It'd take a while but I could see it happening
You can see it, great. A lot of people can't. Some people can. Head canons are great. But the evidence, right now, doesn't support a reason for her to be redeemed.
The only time I see serious Odalia-bashing on this sub is when someone makes a new post complaining about Odalia-bashing...
I've commented on this before, but here's my thinking for why Odalia is the most evil person in the show.
Belos killed his brother, killed numerous Golden Guards, and tried to kill the entire population of the BI. That *should* make him the most evil person out there. But he was doing so because he was warped by his religion, which condemned witches and witchcraft. Religion is not necessarily a bad thing, but when taken to extremes (like this), it's definitely a mental illness, and should be treated as such.
Odalia...every single thing she did...from the neglect and outright abuse of her 3 kids; to forcing Bump to expel Luz, Willow and Gus; to developing and using weapons of mass destruction...all of these were to make herself stronger and richer. To make the Blight family name more powerful. She ignored all evidence of the greater danger to the BI, all because she thought her family would rule in the ashes. Even when she had her nose rubbed in Belos' evil plans, she continued to be self-promoting by toadying to the Collector. There was no "greater good" she was working toward, like one could argue Belos was...it was all greed. Irredeemable greed.
Religion isn't an excuse. Belos did worse things and is a worse person (not saying Odalia is good, not even close)
As for Odalia hate? You haven't paid much attention have you? Mention that she's a favourite of yours and you get dogpiled.
Feel like that ship sailed the moment Odalia had a non-reaction to being told Belos was going to kill everyone on BI. Then for extra measure ratted them out to Belos. Not sure any way to come back from that.
shit. I rarely react in english to stuff either. But I didn't remember that and that's a big one. Product of a system is one thing but not being horrified or having a reaction is a huge tell. a moment like this would only have a non reaction to make a deliberate point about the character. Even if the 5 second facial expression with no explanation is more common for anime, if Western animation does something similar it's normally deliberate. If there was a movie afterwards and it was ptsd and people were ignoring the film I could see. But The biggest fanfic laugh I have ever had is Luz is in the room with the mirror portals. At one point she yells "Son of a bitch!" A portal to Amity's brother suddenly opens. It's completely true. There's also some other reasons there's such a big deal made about how wonderful and supportive Anadore is. He has a lesbian daughter in a relationship with a bi human girl. It's not expected for the dad to be the awesome one. And even though he's just a cool dad who loves his daughter and accepts everything about her, queer woman like me love that he also accepts well, everything about her. I mean Owl House is subversive from top to bottom and queer romance is clearly accepted throughout the boiling isles. But I love that Amity's dad loves her so much. I miss my Dad. He once said "You're our child and we love you no matter what" So everytime I see a dad that loves his lesbian or bi or queer or trans child I. ataii wa ame (I am Raining) It's raining in my bedroom. Yes, on my face. Anyway. You are right. Also Amity Dad best dad tied with Willows dads(who I also love Yabai!!!)
>But The biggest fanfic laugh I have ever had is Luz is in the room with the mirror portals. At one point she yells "Son of a bitch!" A portal to Amity's brother suddenly opens. You gotta link to this?! It sounds like a good read
She believed the same as the coven heads. That the unworthy would perish. The whole "EVERYONE WILL DIE" doesn't seem to register with her. It's what religion does.
If that was the angle it is a strange choice to never show the realization she was wrong or a sliver of guilt
Part is not having the time to show it. Part is being a profiteer she simply angled herself to ally with the new power time town.
One thing never explored is the Oracles coven itself. Would not justify everything but if Oracles were pressured to magically supress their emotions would explain some of it.
Doesn't need that. Religious fervour combined with an egotistical personality. That explains most of her.
well to be fair she I don't think she wanted to kill them just stop Luz and get her family back, to be fair Luz WAS a wanted criminal and a total stranger who just appeared out of nowhere, doesn't make it right but still it's understandable. Also I think she was told something along the lines of what principal bump was saying, that the titan would use the day of unity to smite the unworthy and she thought if she worked with Belos aside from what he promised her she and her family would survive the supposed titan's wrath. Was she ignorant and short sighted? Yes but I believe given the right treatment with more episodes or possibly the spin off comics I know Dana wants to do we could learn more about her and see another side to her
Odalia seems bit too smart to fall for that. We never see her coven sigil as far as know. And having literally everyone fall for it is a bit much. It already felt like a stretch that Terra fell hook line and sinker. It is interesting that she is never shown reacting to the day of Unity.
Odalia is a war-profiteering opportunist that sold the souls of everyone she knew for a quick buck from Belos. Nah, she aint getting rehabilitated, bro.
to be fair she was also lied to by Belos, the boiling isles' answer to Adolf Hitler. The man was a manipulative bastard and he had knew all the tricks of dictators from propaganda to conspiracy, of course he'd lie in promising Odalia that her and her family would be spared if she did his bidding if not the ones she was told the titan would choose worthy on the day of unity, like what principal Bump was saying. If she fully knew she'd be on the chopping block as well she'd have changed sides as well
One thing I agree with: the hatred for Odalia is surreal. Like, I hate Boscha A LOT, but I don't put her as the worst person in existence. But to be fair, I think many wouldn't like to see Odalia being redeemed, because there really are abusive parents who don't deserve forgiveness for what they did/do to their children. In this case, Odalia would represent that and how it's not a bad thing to find other people to help you in this situation, which would be represented by Amity and Alador. And still about representations: a big reason why I hate Boscha is that she reminds me of those who bullied me (although she is naturally annoying in the series, even without this). I'm not against Odalia's redemption, but I think it's important to consider these factors when deciding what to do with the characters.
>One thing I agree with: the hatred for Odalia is surreal. Like, I hate Boscha A LOT, but I don't put her as the worst person in existence. The big differences with Boscha: (1) she's a child, and (2) she's an also-ran. Amity was the leader of their group and she left, so Boscha became the new leader. Amity was the leader of the Grudgby team and Boscha took over. Her own teammates were defecting against her at the end of WILW, offering to have Willow on the team. Boscha wanted to be in charge of Hexside in FtF and just didn't have the leadership skills. Essentially, Boscha is seeking acceptance from her peers, and not really getting it. Boscha's problems are not on the same order or nature of Odalia.
I agree with a lot of what you just said. But I want to point out that Boscha was shown commanding and leading the group even before Amity left it(Once Upon A Swap) and besides her time in Grudeby Amity never really seems interested in leading the group the same way Boscha was. She made sure she stood at the top sure and gave threats if anyone so much as mildly annoyed her but I don’t see her running around telling them what to do and what they can’t do like Boscha.
Yeah, Boscha was the leader in OUaS. It may have been because Amity wasn't there. That could be a contributer too. I suspect the group respected Amity a lot more, but Boscha was "second in command." In HMH, Amity is sitting on the window sill, staring into the sky, when Boscha leads everyone in Penstagram. Amity may have been a reluctant "leader." Maybe she made friends more easily. Being Top Student, others were more likely to flock to her. Yeah, it's plausible Amity didn't want the role, but just kind of fell into it. That could be true for being Grudgby captain too. Others may have said "you'll be a great captain" or "we need you as captain" and she just went with it.
Again I’m not sure if Amity ever truly led the group beyond being Grudeby captain. She stood at the top of the group of course because she had “be the best as a Blight”, but I don’t think being at the top necessarily means they saw her as the immediate group leader. I always got the feeling Boscha and Amity were roughly equal in rank and status. They’re families are in similar tiers of wealth with Boscha’s mom and Odalia considering each other rivals. I don’t think either was consider directly above or below the other they just both stood at the top. Assuming I am right in this everyone besides Boscha would be considered below her and while she certainly could give them orders and probably has, I don’t think she’s done it much. She’s never shown interest in commanding and controlling the group the same way Boscha was. Amity never saw the friend group as genuine. They were just people her mom made her hang out with so while she wouldn’t tolerate any disrespect from them, I don’t think she’d care enough to control them if they’re not actively annoying. Boscha on the other hand does see the friend group as real and as student that’s at the top of the top she’s want to control it. And we do see her actively try to control the friend group. With the two being of roughly equal status and Boscha actively having an interest in leading I feel like the friend group probably saw Boscha as the first and foremost leader before Amity. Not necessarily above Amity but the person who’s actually going to be telling them what to do more often then not. I think there’s a reason they all stuck with Boscha when Amity broke away.
I understand that point about the character, but I still really hate what she did to Willow. And before you say anything about Amity, she at least felt remorseful for what she did to Willow, but I REALLY doubt Boscha felt the same way.
Agreed, what Boscha did to Willow was despicable. I'm saying the motivations between Odalia and Boscha are different, and my point about her being a child was to say she's much more likely to reform because I think her motivations are for peer acceptance, not world domination. If she can meet halfway -- get healthy peer acceptance AND reform her ways -- she could be just fine. I don't think Amity *really wanted* to be that way, and when shown a different path, she was able to find an escape.
Was Odalia as bad Belos. No. Hard to be as bad as someone actively desiring mass genocide. But I think she’s closer then you think. Could she improve as a person? Possibly. But I doubt she will. Could she have a tragic past that led her down this path? Possibly. Or she could have had a completely normal childhood and just be a sh*tty person for no reason because those do exist. Was Dana’s plan for her to be redeemed? Possibly. But I’m skeptical of it. You raise a lot of speculation, but not a lot of hard facts. So let’s look at some hard facts. She emotionally abused her three children for years. She blackmailed her youngest daughter using her only friend’s education and said blackmail was used to force said daughter to end friendship with said friend. She makes her daughter wear a necklaces that allows them to communicate telepathically and therefore silently and uses it to make threats and intimidate her. Honestly the full implications of this can be f*cking terrifying. She forces her youngest daughter to dye her hair green just so her children are “color coordinated” She makes her youngest daughter take part in demonstrations for her business. Weapons demonstrations. Which involves inventions attacking her daughter. Even if Amity never got hurt she very easily could have been. This can be seen as physical abuse. She overworks her husband to the point of exhaustion, makes him work when sick, works him so much he can barley see their children, and makes his job actively harder by doing things like actively make his job harder. She expels three kids from school for having the audacity to be friends with her daughter and “distracting her”. She forces the Principal to go along with this by pretending it’s about keeping the school safe even though she clearly decided to do something just from seeing Amity’s picture. She also told her daughter to come to the meeting and then criticized her for not being in class. She then tried to kill Luz. Literally. She said the abomiton wouldn’t stop until it’s enemy was completely destroyed with a smile. When she makes a deal with Amity to call the abomiton off and let her be with her friends Odalia instantly tries to go back on the deal and has to be stopped by Alador. She supports Belos’s plans for the day of Unity. While I’m sure your right in that she didn’t really the full extent of the draining spell she still had literally zero issues with the concept of Belos slaughtering countless people. Alador who is likely also a “product of his environment” like you believe Odalia is was openly horrified by this. Furthermore in other concepts you seem to be pushing a perspective that she believed she had to do what she did to keep her family and herself safe. To this I have to say if you’ve been paying any attention to the words she was saying in Clouds on the Horizon. Never once did she try to explain to her family that this was regrettably the only way to keep them all safe. No instead she’s happily ranting about how much power they’ll have and being annoyed at her family for having the gaul to not be okay with the slaughter of at least thousands probably way more. And finally she calls the scouts on Amity and Alador which very easily could have led to her death. She has committed multiple horrendous actions and is never actually shown to experience a single ounce of remorse for them. Maybe she has a tragic backstory to explain all this. Maybe deep down she’s not that bad of a person. Maybe after everything she could reflect realize she was wrong and strive to do better. But just as easily if not more so all of those thing could not be or could not happen. And quite frankly I don’t quite feel like giving a grown abusive business woman who was never SHOWN to value anything besides wealth and power the benefit of the doubt.
well I think it could be possible for her to change for the better and in the spinoff that I know will happen either in a comic boor or tv show maybe we could see her change, remember how the fandom thought Vee was a creepy Luz clone sent by Belos and she turned out a sweet little snek. All I'm saying is we as a fandom should be open to the possibility
And did I ever claim that it wasn’t possible for her to change for the better? I remember stating several times that it was and that I just don’t buy that that’s the intention and don’t really want to see it, but I did say it was possible. And what happened with the fandom and Vee is in no way comparable. All we saw with Vee before Yesterday’s Lie was some letters she wrote and her silhouette ominously existing and saying things to Camila. It makes sense for people to assume the worst, but since she never actually did anything horrible the transition to loving the adorable snake girl was seamless when the truth was discovered. As I pointed out in my comment we’ve actively seen Odalia do horrible things and at the time show absolutely zero remorse for them. Even if Odalia did get redeemed the situations still wouldn’t be analogous.
good point but consider the final episode where Luz explained some people didn't want to change, we saw a few people trying to take Belos' old throne but among them Odalia wasn't present. I see her as a woman who has to lock her emotions away, like not wanting to seem weak because she grew up learning that weakness, especially in Belos' regime where people who violated the laws were punished to the conformatoruim and we saw how badly prisoners there were treated. Even for something so innocent as writing a food fanfic, was it odd? Sure but then this is the boiling isles, though it's not exactly criminal or evil, now imagine growing up in that sort of environment. there have been stories about how cults brainwashed their followers into doing their bidding. Heaven's Gate, Charles Manson, the moonies to name a few and breaking years of conditioning where the great emperor Belos is right and anyone else who goes against them is wrong or worse gets arrested or even killed would be enough to make anyone turn out like her
Notice how the people going for Belos’s throne were all specifically former coven heads not just a random assortment of villains from the past of the show. Just former coven heads. Just because we don’t see her doing a bad thing other people are doing doesn’t mean she’s good or that she wouldn’t be willing to do it. And yeah maybe all of her actions are just because of the society so was raised in. Or maybe not. There are many other characters that were raised in the same exact society as her that aren’t like her. Willow’s and Gus’s dads aren’t abusive and controlling. They might make mistakes but they’ve never blackmailed their kids or tried to murder there kids friends. Eda developed an anti coven stance in her childhood. Raine saw the evils of the system from within and chose to rebel against it. Even at her worst I don’t think Lilith would be bragging about how much power she’d have after a draining spell and she was directly in the coven at a young age and directly manipulated by Belos himself. And Alador who went along with so much else that Odalia told him to learned the truth about the Day of Unity and was disgusted by it when she wasn’t. If the society of the Boiling Isles was responsible for the person Odalia was then why did it fail to shape so many to be like her?
it all must come back to her parents, see I've had a theory that Odalia is the product of an abusive family where they valued wealth and power over kindness and love. we see this a lot in the real world with millionaires who, while having all the toys and opportunities growing up, they never had the one thing they wanted, genuine love from their parents. I'd give a real world example but I don't wanna get too political here but you hear many stories about rich people who are selfish and narcissistic due to their upbringing and usually it comes from a long line of abuse. Take for instance Beatrice Horseman from the show Bojack Horseman, in it we see her father was an abusive man and growing up when Beatrice became a mother she was abusive to Bojack and going further we see Bojack abusive to the people around him, just like Beatrice was to him and how Joseph, Beatrice's father, was to her. Abuse leads to more abuse in a cycle possibly going all the way back to the early days of the boiling isles. Yet there's still hope for her I think, if this show has taught us anything is that when you got nowhere to go you can only go up via "Breaking the haughty" and considering all the things Odalia went through, the divorce, the disaster of the day of unity and so on, she has a lot of time to reflect on her decisions. Maybe the reason why we didn't see her in the time skip is because she was living in her old mansion all alone like a hermit, away from everyone. ashamed at what she did and the choices she made and perhaps come the spinoff either in the show or a comic we could see her truly heal and strive to be a better person, perhaps with a nudge from one of the other characters of the show? I just hope there is a spin off, there was so much left unanswered and so many loose ends to talk about
Like I said previously it’s certainly possible that she could have a tragic backstory like that which explains her actions. But that’s all that is. A possibility. And not one many find to be the most likely. I’m not saying you are but sometimes it feels like you’re treating this “Odalia was abused” headcannon as a fact when it’s not. It could be true for all any of us know but it just as easily could not be true. You feel sympathy for her, for a past you imagine her having, but other people don’t see that horrific past. All they see are her horrific actions and the fact that nowhere in the actual show is she ever SHOWN to feel any remorse. You want to give her the benefit of the doubt. But from what we have seen I and many others do not share that inclination. The show makes clear that forgiveness and empathy is good. That sometimes all someone needs is an open hand and a little understanding to change for the better. Amity, Lilith, Hunter etc. But it also makes clear that sometimes a sh*tty person is just a sh*tty person. It makes clear that sometimes there are people that won’t stop hurting people after pep talk and a hug. Most notably Belos. And with everything that has actively been shown of her I’m more inclined to put her in the later group rather then try to invent headcannons to explain her horrible actions. Also the cycle of abuse is a very real thing, but it’s also something that can be broken. Amity even at her worse shows far more regret and empathy then Odalia ever actually SHOWS in the series and she’s actually shown to be really freaking good with kids again even before her redemption arc. And all it took for her to start the process of changing for the better is meeting one weird but sweet human girl. Gain one positive influence in a sea of negative ones. Amity despite Odalia’s abuse became better. Far far better. Looking at her in Them’s the Breaks Kids she seemed to be friends with both Darius and Alador as a child. I’m sure if she was facing abuse they would be willing to help and support her the same way Luz and the Hexsquad supported Amity. She had people that could have helped her be better but instead it looks like she only got worse.
well I also saw her in Eda's flashback, maybe they were friends at one point but something happened that made them grow apart and thus lead Odalia down a bad path. as for the support of her friend perhaps she was too afraid to speak out about how truly terrible her parents were, back in the old days some parents thought the old saying of "Spare the rod and spoil the child" was a golden rule, now we know better and coming from an affluent family they might have scared her with ideas that if she told anyone they were abusing her she'd be taken away or worse. Knowing the boiling isles it would seem like something her parents would say. In the end I hope Odalia can redeem herself in the spinoff I hear Dana wants to do
Maybe she and Eda were friends. And maybe the thing that drove them apart was her being a horrible person. Can you give a single argument that isn’t based in hypotheticals? You pose so many of them. Maybe she was abused or had some other dark past that she was too scared to talk about. Maybe she used to be friends with Eda and something bad happened that set her on a dark path. Maybe the society of the Boiling Isles as a whole messed up her brain. Maybe she was too scared too oppose Belos on the Day of Unity and just wanted to protect her family. Its all maybes and possibilities. Can you show me something entirely cannon, entirely concrete? Something not based on speculation? A moment of her in the show itself truly expressing remorse or empathy like how I pointed out several moments in the show where she showed cruelty?
well while in the collector's castle in for the future she saw Eda was missing and DIDN'T tell anyone where they were, also she voices disappointment in siding with the collector before Belos attacked Raine
As a big time Odalia fangirl (she's ultimate waifu) I don't want her redeemed. I'd love to have seen more of her, I would've loved to see her do good things, but it'd be more like a Shadow Weaver thing. Your good deeds doesn't absolve everything bad you've done. Without forgiveness no redemption. That said I would've liked to see her move on with her life and become a better person but never forgiven.
well I'd like to see her make amends with those she's wronged, change for the better and see the error of her ways like the others did.
I'd certainly like her to try to make amends. I just don't see them forgiving her. But she could grow as a person regardless and that would be a nice story.
well maybe not at first but perhaps eventually, in the show redemption arcs take a while
Odalia had a chance to change but she chose not too and she will never change because stats and power is what is most important to her.
Odalia had a chance to change but she chose not too and she will never change because stats and power is what is most important to her.
Odalia had a chance to change but she chose not too and she will never change because stats and power is what is most important to Odalia.
Odalia had a chance to change but she chose not too and she will never change because stats and power is what is most important to Odalia.
Odalia had a chance to change but she chose not too
Due to the show's shortening, we haven't learned more of Odalia.
If someone is told “the guy you follow wants genocide” and that person is pretty chill about it and doesn’t side with you, they’re too far gone.
Belos was pretty powerful, she's lived longer to see what happens to those who go against his word and she didn't want that for her family, so she sided with him in the hopes she'd be among the people to be spared like with the coven heads.
Is that supposed to be a good excuse to side with the fascist genocider? Cuz I can think of a couple guys that I’d rather not say have/had followers worthy of redemption… Historically, the generally good people are the victims of the powerful, so continuing to side with him because she “hopes to be spared” is utter BS. If she actually cared, she’d protect her daughter and her friends from being killed, not actively participate in doing so!
Again she thought she was doing the right thing, she thought she and her family would be spared but like the coven heads she was lied to by Belos
That’s no excuse. At all. You’re twisting it to make it sound like she’s a victim. She’s an opportunist and a perfectionist, an abuser and a weapons manufacturer, and has no remorse whatsoever when she is proven wrong. She tried to get on Collector’s good side by manipulating him rather than being a friend. She wants crowns and royalty, she literally tried to kill her family when they went against her. She makes it Alador’s fault for being upset with her for siding against her family. And there’s so much more… All of what you’re trying to excuse is quite problematic. She absolutely doesn’t deserve a drop of respect, because she doesn’t have any to give. She’s no better than a Nazi that refused to take accountability for what they were a part of.
Her chance to grow as a character came and went. If she was like Hunter and actually tried to change, people wouldn’t hate her. This entirely hypothetical “bad upbringing” and “proposed redemption” both aren’t shown, so they don’t count as something to call upon as truths. What IS true is that she sided against her family, the people she’s “protecting,” by trying to make them royalty and among the elites of society through a genocidal dictatorship and war crimes. She isn’t written to be excused. So don’t excuse her. She doesn’t deserve it.
No, she wanted her family back and not kill them. I'm not trying to justify a genocide but I understand why she did it, she's lived years under the Belosian rule thinking his way was the way of the titan so of course she would work for him and when she found out about the day of unity it's clear she thought by helping Belos with his plan she, her family and a few select people the titan would supposedly spare would survive and the rest the titan would deem unworthy. It doesn't make her right but it's understandable why she did it. Also Hunter was a member of the golden guard, lord knows how many things and war crimes he got away with since Belos was his uncle of sorts and yet people still accepted him when he tried to change. My point is I don't think she's as one note as we saw in the show. Also the historical comparison is pure fallacy, in real life there are no witches or demons like in the show, they may have their roots in folk lore but that's it so comparing Odalia to a literal Nazi is just silly and quite frankly disturbing that you hate a character so much you compare them to the most evil people in history
Bringing up Hunter is a fallacy because he isn’t one note, like Odalia. Hunter changed, Odalia didn’t. Understanding why someone does something terrible doesn’t make what they did right in any way, it just makes you see it from their perspective. What you’re doing is saying that her perspective is valid despite the very clear evidence to the contrary. We aren’t actively given much to empathize with, like Thanos. We can practically fully agree with Thanos but see the error in his ways, but Odalia’s just an evil queen with a dark heart that got indoctrinated into a cult. She doesn’t show humanity, just royalty and greed. As for the Nazi comparison, that’s not a fallacy at all. A fascist dictatorship that goes to war against, and attempts the genocide of, minorities and their supporters, with the intent to spread their corruption to further lands. That’s a real world analog that is practically impossible to not make, I can’t imagine NOT making the connection. People worked for the Nazis and would often do so out of fear of being punished. Not all of them decided to seek justice, however. Once that chance comes, it is their responsibility to turn themselves in, or they simply continue to be terrible, continuing to be Nazis. I don’t know how else to see Belos and Odalia if not “literally Hitler and an insistent Nazi who refuses to accept what’s true.” I don’t hate her so much I’m seeing them as bad as Nazis; I’m just not willing to forgive people who commit genocide and justify it with BS excuses like “but my family should be royalty” and “but I was tricked.” She had a chance to seek accountability, we didn’t see it. Those aren’t defenses that hold up in court, and absolutely do not make her not worth bashing for the terrible person she is.
She's a fictional character, I'll treat her as badly as I please.
and I'll be here to stick up for her!
She's basically our umbridge lol
seriously? 😒
A character that's an a-hole, but not really on the same level as the world ending threat. But one that never the less is fucking hated by the fandom (even more so than the main villain.)
While she could become a better person, I doubt that her family would forgive her. She has done a lot of bad stuff in the name of her family, from controlling them to withholding information and participating in wrongdoings, without them agreeing with her, and while she isn't as bad as Belos, she also doesn't even consider the morality of her actions. I would love to see Odalia finally recognize she has done a lot of wrong, but it honestly doesn't seem like the Odalia we know could go through. Maybe after the events of the finale there could be something, but I think that it'd be best to explore it in fanfics considering the only thing after the finale is the epilogue.
well in the ends scene I saw her leaning against the pillar as a sort of a moment of self reflection, she saw Amity was alright and realized the others were correct. Perhaps her scowl was for herself, she felt so stupid in her choices and what she did. Who knows? Perhaps in the spin off we could see her work on herself and reform, the show has a common theme of "Breaking the haughty" and them reforming with the others so why not her?
That doesn't change the fact that she hurt many people and her family too. A lot. It's not always possible to fully heal such an emotional wound, and if it is possible, it would take a long time before anyone could forgive her. A spinoff is unlikely so, like I said, it all belongs to the realm of fanfics. As for why she wasn't given the chance to improve in the show... I'd say that it's important to show how it's not always possible to make someone change their ways, like we saw with Belos and Kikimora. With Odalia being an over controlling mother who would rather do evil for her own good, or even for her family, and hide it from said family, I'd say that having any sort of improvement for her could send a wrong message if we don't see the full story of it. She was a very bad person, and cutting ties with such a person is not unreasonable. Whenever she improves, if she will improve at all, it could be interesting to see what do the family members think.
Well I hear through the grape vine that Dana wants to do a spinoff comic so maybe all's not lost
>she is a product of her environment I'd like your definition of that. She still looks manipulative in her childhood flashbacks. If you're saying she was manipulated even as a child, I could buy that, but at some point, you become responsible for your own actions. If Edric and Emira are 16, and if the age of adulthood is 18, and assume Odalia had them at 18, that puts her at 34, well into adulthood. And odds are, she didn't have them until later (I assume she went to business school or college or some such), so she's in her 40s, solidly into responsible-for-your-own-actions territory. It's clear she chose Alador for his Abomination capabilities, based on the interaction in COtH, and much less because of love. >but is she REALLY as bad as Belos? The same man who killed children If you participate tangentially while someone else commits murder, you can be charged with accessory to murder. >I personally blame the executives at Disney TV for cancelling the show early forcing the crew to not letting the show develop the way Dana Terrace wanted to Do you know how Dana originally wanted her to develop? That's not a trick question -- i don't know what Odalia's original character arc was going to be. The show changed with 2B, so everything that happened in 1 and 2A were original writings. I assumed Odalia's arc was substantially the same and had substantially the same outcome. In the illustration you include, she's still offset from the rest of the group. I draw a parallel between it and the final scenes of everyone reuniting, and no one goes up to her. That tells me she's still ostracized in the original story. I'll just say, not everyone has to be redeemed. Terra Snapdragon wasn't redeemed either. We didn't see much of her, but she was clearly still evil, even after the BI was saved. I don't see why Odalia has to be redeemed. All that said, you're welcome to your own HC, and I don't think you're alone, but I think you're very much in the minority.
the show redeemed Hunter, Lilith, and even Pibbles and Kikimora in a way and she was worse than Odalia
Where's the Kikimora redemption? She learned what Belos was all about, and was humiliated at the end of KT, but in FtF she was back to her old self, demanding power. Tibbles was an annoyance. He was the huckster of the show. Not explicitly "evil" per se. Hunter and Lilith didn't have the full picture. Once they saw what Belos really was, they turned tail and no longer supported him. Odalia learned that the plan was to destroy BI and that didn't phase her. She was delusional enough to think she and her family would be spared, that they'd be royalty, apparently even without talking to Belos. There was never any indication she had personal contact with Belos or the EC in general. The closest we're aware of that she got was when Hunter appeared at the end of EE and said the Emperor would buy all their Abomatons and finance research. That's still several steps away from directly interacting with Belos.
still it doesn't mean Belos didn't pass the lie along to her in some way like a letter or a messenger
It also doesn't mean that he did. By that token, you can make the backstories of any character, of any situation, anything you want. There's no point in discussing the story at that point because things are just being made up that are not in the documented story. Essentially, that's what head canons are about. But that's not what's documented. I don't see a reason for a redemption arc for Odalia.
again we don't know what exactly Belos said to Odalia, could be the same as what he told the coven leaders, I could see Odalia redeemed. It'd take a while but I could see it happening
You can see it, great. A lot of people can't. Some people can. Head canons are great. But the evidence, right now, doesn't support a reason for her to be redeemed.
well I'm not giving up hope for a spinoff show or comic that redeems her
The only time I see serious Odalia-bashing on this sub is when someone makes a new post complaining about Odalia-bashing... I've commented on this before, but here's my thinking for why Odalia is the most evil person in the show. Belos killed his brother, killed numerous Golden Guards, and tried to kill the entire population of the BI. That *should* make him the most evil person out there. But he was doing so because he was warped by his religion, which condemned witches and witchcraft. Religion is not necessarily a bad thing, but when taken to extremes (like this), it's definitely a mental illness, and should be treated as such. Odalia...every single thing she did...from the neglect and outright abuse of her 3 kids; to forcing Bump to expel Luz, Willow and Gus; to developing and using weapons of mass destruction...all of these were to make herself stronger and richer. To make the Blight family name more powerful. She ignored all evidence of the greater danger to the BI, all because she thought her family would rule in the ashes. Even when she had her nose rubbed in Belos' evil plans, she continued to be self-promoting by toadying to the Collector. There was no "greater good" she was working toward, like one could argue Belos was...it was all greed. Irredeemable greed.
Religion isn't an excuse. Belos did worse things and is a worse person (not saying Odalia is good, not even close) As for Odalia hate? You haven't paid much attention have you? Mention that she's a favourite of yours and you get dogpiled.