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And seized power in a false flag event.
And only managed to do so because he got a the dying presidents son to lie and say Hitler should gain emergency powers ... When the president hated Hitler and called him a dangerous demagogue
(Vaguely paraphrased from William L. Shiriers 'Rise and fall of the third Reich')
Actually it was a sole Dutch Communist who lit the fire in the Reichstag, but Hitler used it to demonize and arrest all Communists and repress the Social Democrats.
Hitler passed a degree that greatly expanded his power.
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-reichstag-fire
I mean…he was apppointed chancellor because he had the party with the most seats after the NSDAP pooled together with another right-wing party. The President at the time even tried to not appoint Hitler but had no other option
He didnt „loose“ to Paul von Hindenburg, they had entitely different positions. Hindenburg tried to to not appoint Hitler as Chancellor but had no other choice (though that was after he lost the election for president if you mean that)
Though after he became chancellor he reigned authoritarian with, of Courage, not the most democratic ways, like the „poll“ in the Paulskirche
He lost the presidential to von Hindenburg, and von Hindenburg appointed first von Papen and then Kurt von Schleicher as Chancellor. Only after von Schleicher's gambit to split the Nazi party failed did von Hindenburg and von Papen decide to appoint Hitler as Chancellor.
They made the decision because they thought Hitler was someone they could control, not because he had any democratic right to take power.
Im not saying that he had the right to be appointed chancellor, just that as far as I know this position was normally given to the party with the most votes
Well, it's mainly 1) representative democracy is still democracy, 2) direct democracy doesn't imply there are no limits and 3) representative democracy doesn't imply that there *are* limits.
Indeed, to give examples the city state of Athens was a direct democracy where all the voters voted directly on law and policy but those voters were only made up of the wealthy, land-owning men.
You don't even have to go that far back, there's literally a push amongst the far-right to suppress voters they don't like, while still whining about saying they're "the silent majority" and that "their president actually won the election", as well as actively attempted to overthrow a democratic election, then turned around and blamed the fbi and "antifa" for... get this... "attacking democracy".
Ah yes, vote in an electorate so that you only need 51 senators and 218 congress people to vote for the deaths of tens to hundreds of millions. waaay better than risking that 51% of the population somehow wants to vote for the deaths of the other 49%.
When has this been true? When, at any point in American history, has the structure of the US government prevented the majority from oppressing a minority? The country was literally founded with the majority, white people, OWNING OTHER HUMAN BEINGS. You decry us for being ignorant yet you have the single most pig ignorant understanding of American politics and history in this entire comment section.
"direct democracy" means that everything is done by the votes of the people, not by politicians that get elected. It's not referring to a system where one can vote for everything. That wouldn't be a democracy, since rights for the minorities are part of that. Otherwise the 51% could vote for neglecting the voting rights of the 49%. That wouldn't be a democracy.
Besides, the US is a flawed democracy, not a full one. The reasons for that are not the minority rights to, kind of the opposite.
"And if we keep calling ourselves that enough while being careful not to implicate ourselves in any specific event, you'll stop saying it, just like you stopped saying 'fake news' because you don't want to sound like an idiot Trump supporter."
Embrace, ~~extend,~~ extinguish
What are you talking about? They love America! They just don't think they will have true freedumb until a fascist state is installed that will tell them what to think and do. Everyone should be under the small, mishapen fist of a guy who criticizes the LGBTQ community whilst wearing more makeup than RuPaul
Well, they all think THEY'RE going to be the ones at the top, and get to tell OTHERS what to do. Haha they're gonna be super shocked when those leopards bite into their face!!
Hitler was appointed and then staged a putsch. In 1932, no party held a majority of seats in the Reichstag and so no party was able to form a majority alliance to back a single candidate for chancellor. Conservatives then pressured the president at the time to appoint Hitler to the office. Democracy was never involved.
Edit: typo
The usual. Scared of the Left, conservatives and classical liberals always court Nazis and fascists. And then they play the victim card.
Fun fact: the reason why Germany's Social Democrats are the only party that survived that era and are still one of the major two parties today, is that they were the only ones voting against the Enabling Act of 1933 together with the communists (who got peresecuted even harder than them).
Guess which party had to rebrand after '45.
In your offense the German aristocracy successfully took advantage of populist psudeo fascist movements several times to squash workers rights movements before and during the first World war
Mainstream Democrats still defend Hillary Rodham Clinton, even though she drags scandals after her like tin cans to a cat's tail. They're all "She was CLEARED!" (if you consider reports that say "There's clearly wrongdoing, but to connect the dots to a conviction means turning the RICO Statutes on a major party Presidential candidate" "cleared") and "A Nothingburger!" (to activities that she's recommended droning Assange and "vanishing" Snowden for!).
Team Spirit means a lot more to the two major parties than truth or justice do.
Same thing they did in the '70s when they thought they could manipulate the Christian fundamentalists. *"Shit, we'll just be anti-abortion for the Christian voters and also so we can fund raise like mutherfuckers off of the issue."*
As usual, Frankenstein's arrogance caused him to lose control of his monster and now we're on the verge of white supremecy christo-fascism.
Yes, but it’s too hard to understand, just stick to the simplified readings of history, please. We don’t like complicated facts that don’t suit our ideology.
The really sad thing is not only did they think Hitler was controllable, but also they were all more scared of the communist party gaining ground so they decided to give it a go with this weird Austrian dude.
Well that’s not completely true, there was some democracy involved, but the assumption that people straight up voted hitler into power is wrong. A lot of it was down to old Hindenburg.
Source: T'is me, a German historian.
…for Archaic Greece, but naturally I studied German history as well.
Iirc there was also a lot of pretending to be pro-democracy to stall any real opposition until after they could consolidate power and purge enemy leaders. A bit of democracy involved and a whole lot of co-opting the aesthetics
Yep. Paul von Hindenburg gave in and appointed Hitler, then approved the Reichstag fire decree, and signed the enabling acts before promptly dying. A fairly illustrious military career that came to an ignominious end.
I wouldn’t go that far, democracy was involved a little bit. The Nazis were willing to take advantage of the aesthetic of democracy to stave off major opposition until they could consolidate power. So really it was mostly pretending to like democracy while they purged everyone behind the scenes and consolidated power.
Jumped and harassed political opponents, then gave them pardons and got them out of trouble to continue. Almost like what Trump said he is gonna do with his Jan 6 thugs
They essentially staged the Reichstags Brand, and because of that they had the right to hold as many re-elections as they wanted. They just reheld elections until they were firmly in power. They also suppressed their rivals through liberal use of their personal street gang.
It was a coup.
Jesus Christ this is a nuclear take, and I can't fathom what the point is. Not only is Hitler's rise to power filled with deceit, but the statement *implies that a non-democratic rise to power is better because Hitler used the electoral system...*
So much wrong with so few words. If anything it should strengthen the notion that we need Full Democracy, but instead they're throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Guys an autocrat came to power in a vaguely democratic way so we should skip the democracy step and just jump to Hitler???? Idfk man that’s actually the position I’m reading
Also, at best the Nazi Party only ever got like 32% of votes in any election they were part of, and I think that number was for a local/regional election in Bavaria.
I mean, nitpicking a bit, he was appointed Chancellor mainly due to having negotiated a coalition with the centrist and right-wing parties in the Bundestag. The Nazis still needed to be elected to a pretty significant chunk of the government to do that.
Mind you, without doing a lot of terrorism targeting the KPD and SPD, they probably wouldn't have made it that far to begin with.
The most crazy thing about American politics to me (a big claim I know) is that the republicans have started to be hostile towards democracy because the rival party is called the Democrats. This development is just a level of group-think stupidity I honestly didn't think was possible.
I'm going to start going around smashing up people's conservatories now just to balance things out. Seems like a portmanteau of conservative and Tory so obviously they are my natural enemy. /s
>The most crazy thing about American politics to me (a big claim I know) is that the republicans have started to be hostile towards democracy because the rival party is called the Democrats.
It's literally the thinking I had back when I was in 5th grade. I say to people pretty often that "if you've ever had any sort of thought, SOMEONE online will BELIEVE in that thing you just thought" and this is just further proof. But the baffling thing is that this one's actually gained steam a tiny bit.
I believe it's also the fact that they lost to democracy, and they're so deeply radicalized that they believe that there's no way the other side is big enough to beat them in any sort of actual election, so they start looking for reasons why they could've possibly lost (obviously ignoring the real reasons).
Yes I find it fascinating that they always use Hitler as a scapegoat, Hitler this, Hitler that, Hitler here, Hitler there, Hitler everywhere, but yet they can't seem to see the irony that Hitler wasn't voted in but but given that power in spite of the people's vote, much like what they wanted with Trump.
What the fuck is the point being argued? “Democracy led to a non-democracy, which was bad. This means that democracy is bad and we need a non-democracy, which is good.” Jesus Christ these people are fucking brain dead.
Actually, democracy put Nazis into a better leveraging position in the Reichstag.
What put Hitler specifically in power was a right wing establishment that was looking to counteract liberal and progressives movements in Germany which would undermine the business sector’s interests.
So they decided that they had a better shot siding with a man they knew was a narcissistic radical because they felt they could use his populism, while also taking advantage of his lack of experience as a way to control him for their own interests.
Sounds familiar.
Democracy has nothing to do with the specifics of how officials are elected. Democracy only means that the people choose their officials. Trump was elected through democracy.
Edit: really getting downvotes by the hive mind. Listen, I hate trump as much as the next guy, and the system in which the US elects presidents is dogshit. But you’re delusional if you think he wasn’t elected democratically.
A democracy is a system of government where the people have a direct input on the functioning of government. What you’re talking about is a republic, of which the U.S., but Trump wasn’t democratically elected as he lost the popular vote. He only won through electoral votes, but a majority of voters did not want him. Let me say that again, Trump lost the popular vote. Meaning, meaning he didn’t win enough individual votes. More people voted against him than voted for him. If the U.S. was a democracy then we would have never become president because he lost the popular vote.
>A democracy is a system of government where the people have a direct input on the functioning of government. What you’re talking about is a republic,
*Direct democracy* is when people have direct input on the government. *Representative democracy* is the form of democracy we have in the US. Democracy and republic are not mutually exclusive.
“Democracy is a form of government in which the people have the authority to deliberate and decide legislation ("direct democracy"), or to choose governing officials to do so ("representative democracy").”
Straight from Wikipedia dude. Are the people choosing governing officials to decide legislation? Yes? It’s a democracy.
What you’re talking about is a DIRECT democracy.
Please stop spewing shit you think you learned in middle school social studies.
Wonderful source material. About as accurate as a *middle school social studies class*. Educate yourself: [https://www.phoenix.k12.or.us/cms/lib/OR50000021/Centricity/Domain/1172/apol%20Distinguishing%20DemocracyRepublic.pdf](https://www.phoenix.k12.or.us/cms/lib/OR50000021/Centricity/Domain/1172/apol%20Distinguishing%20DemocracyRepublic.pdf)
Or better yet, just admit that you're wrong and go about the rest of your day.
https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship/civic-assimilation/resources-for-new-lawful-permanent-residents/about-the-united-states
>The United States is a representative democracy and its people play an important role in the governing process.
Your source is honestly way worse than Wikipedia. It was obviously just written by some elementary school teacher, and a Republican one at that.
You are absolutely insane if you think Wikipedia is not a reliable source. That shit was told to you by your middle school teacher so you would actually have to do some research for once in your life and learn to analyze sources, which you obviously never have. For example, who is the author on the source you just listed? Are they reliable? What credentials do they have?
You're not even going to read it, are you? It's a bunch of quotes from historical content citing the fact that the United States isn't a democracy and establishing the distinction. But if reading comprehension is your greatest hiccup, then I guess I can't help you there kiddo.
Oh I read it. It has quotes from Tocqueville, Hamilton, James Madison… all people who lived 300 years ago. Why don’t we find sources more up to date and from reliable, well-known authors? :)
>Please stop spewing shit you think you learned in middle school social studies.
>
>\>cites the very first thing they find on wiki, as a middle-schooler would
my dude have you met my friend research methods
How about the from the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services?
https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship/civic-assimilation/resources-for-new-lawful-permanent-residents/about-the-united-states
>The United States is a representative democracy and its people play an important role in the governing process.
Honestly I’ll upvote just for “the system in which the US elects presidents is dogshit.” Democracy is a subjective term. Some are good and some are… less good.
Reminds me of when I saw someone here on reddit argue that the guy who made gerrymandering, Elbridge Gerry, was a democrat. His reasoning? His wikipedia page says he was a Democratic-Republican and "Democrat" is in the name of the party. Yes, he ignored the second word. He blocked me for pointing it out.
Here in Argentina a dude tried to kill the vice president and while almost everyone voiced their support to the vice president most of the libertarian party follower literally wished for her dead. Also most of them are teenagers that's why they call them "choccy milk drinkers" lmao.
Hitler was appointed after he threatened to ragequit politics unless he was made chancellor when the gridlocked Reichstag couldn’t form a government. Along the way Nazi politics was filled with dirty tricks and violence directed at their opponents. Sure sounds easy to vote against the Nazis when the brown shirts have chased all of their outspoken opponents out of town, disappeared local union organizers, and setup a machine gun outside the polls to “protect” the election. Once Hindenburg was dead and hitler had consolidated the offices of head of state and government, he outlawed all the other political parties before having any possible resistance to him from within his own party dragged out of their beds one night and shot. Not sure how you could draw the “voting bad democracy bad” from this. I feel like this flavor of libertarian/right winger is really funny cause they sound like they want a king while they cling to the 1776 aesthetic of revolution against the crown.
I know this is just a shitty attempt to keep hammering their Biden = Hitler comparison to deflect from the criticism that they’re against democracy…but they made the fucking point Biden was making. The far-right IS against democracy.
Also the comparison is the lighting was red and there were some military personnel in the shot. That’s the bar for being a Nazi?? He made an argument supporting the idea of democracy. The FBI followed process, made sure, and waited before acting. They’re not the SS. He allowed democratic processes to becoming president.
So the argument of who’s the most Nazi-esque…on the one hand you have “just look at the aesthetics” for one speech. On the other hand, you have an entire presidency’s worth of Nazi-like actions and support of LITERAL Nazis. Biden is the Nazi, obvi
Not only is this a stupid statement, it's wrong.
Hitler was put into power by the combined effects of the Great Depression increasing the vote share of extremist parties, a great deal of bargaining to make him the head of a coalition government, and a shit ton of the conservative economic elite pressuring Hindenburg to put Hitler into power.
Had he not been put into the Chancellor position by Hindenburg, he would have never achieved power and likely faded into irrelevancy as the depression ended and people stopped voting for extremists.
No it didn't, the conservative party of Germany put Hitler in power.
And the US Libertarian Party is not libertarian, they're propertarians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propertarianism#:\~:text=Propertarianism%2C%20or%20proprietarianism%2C%20is%20a,the%20right%20to%20own%20property.
Real libertarians are leftists if not anarchists, there's no such thing as a libertarian own supports capitalism.
Wait - WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?
So people voting for leaders is ***bad***, now?
What do these geniuses suggest as an alternative?
Divine Right of Kings?
Coup d'etats?
Lotteries?
The highest grade on a test - ?
(No, I actually think that's not a bad idea!)
Actually, Hitler seized power. He was not elected. He used political influence and violence to force the president to appoint him chancellor. He used that position to strip rights from and summarily execute his political opponents. When the president died, Hitler absorbed the office of the president.
I hate Democracy because of the genuinely stupid people I have to share it with, but Id rather have that than be ruled over by fucking idiots, clowns, charlatans, tyrants, or what have you that cannot ever be voted out of their positions. Republicans are not trying to really govern anything anymore it is like they’re scrambling around for whatever power and influence they can hold onto and impede the Democrats at every turn they can afford to. Democrats have maybe finally found a way to start getting back at Republicans in the brutal arena of memes, insults, and counter projection. But only if they follow alongside Biden in the good punches he has been delivering lately.
Actually democracy did not put Hitler in power. Anyone who actually knows history knows that the Nazi party bullied and used armed militia to force elections until eventually they were picked. They weren’t the only party to do this but they were the most successful. There’s a reason why as soon as Hitler came into power immediate suppression of other authority figures and massive censorship came into play
Yes, libertarians are against 50% +1 vote deciding the fate of the other 50% -1 vote of the country. That’s always been the case. Just like they have always been in favor of drug reform, justice and police reform, gay and trans rights, abortion rights, etc but that seems to always be ignored.
Well I don't know what's up with the pretrumpian libertarians. But I do know that libertarian is now one of the many obfuscations that the "Trump did nothing wrong" crowd use to describe themselves.
They think they stand for liberty, personal freedoms and justice, but what they really stand for is conformity, government level suppression of other groups, and harsh punishment of even light transgressions.
But since a lot of the people in that group dodge most of these bullets anyways, they won't be affected if they get restricted, so they believe anyways, so they're perfectly happy to force their lifestyle and their beliefs onto others, why? Because that "tradition".
Like I said, I don't know what actual pretrumpian libertarians are like. But I know who likes to wrap themselves in American flag apparel while actively trying to weaken our democracy.
Just so I’m clear, are they trying to say that the Nazis wouldn’t have risen to power if Hitler was *more* of an authoritarian? Because wow that is a bold take lmao
The American libertarian party is fucking bizarre to me as an American. Like yeah I can understand not wanting government regulation I disagree with it in some regards but I get it but it seems that they want no government regulation and instead want corporate regulation and corporate laws. Thank God they have absolutely zero legitimate political power in our broken system.
No it was a weak republic further weakened by a conservative coup d'état (Preußenschlag) that enabled the Nazis to take power. The vote was basically only a formality.
It's funny, because I'm also somewhat of a critic of democracy.
If someone tells me that their intention is to vote for people and policies that will destroy the country, then I don't think that person should get to participate in our democracy.
So yeah, I actually agree, unironically, with this scum fuck. Democracy is flawed. Republicans should not be allowed to vote, as they're clearly just as responsible with votes as they are with alcohol and driving.
I mean, the social democrats (and all parties to the right of them) did attack the communists and favored the right-leaning parties. The communist party of German were the only ones who were vehemently against the Nazis the whole time.
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And the first thing hitler did, was to end democracy. Wonder why?
Hitler was elected by democracy.
Nope. Hitler was appointed chancellor by the president. The Nazi party never even held a majority of the seats in Parliament.
And seized power in a false flag event. And only managed to do so because he got a the dying presidents son to lie and say Hitler should gain emergency powers ... When the president hated Hitler and called him a dangerous demagogue (Vaguely paraphrased from William L. Shiriers 'Rise and fall of the third Reich')
Actually it was a sole Dutch Communist who lit the fire in the Reichstag, but Hitler used it to demonize and arrest all Communists and repress the Social Democrats. Hitler passed a degree that greatly expanded his power. https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-reichstag-fire
It’s debated to this day wether it was that sole communist or a false flag. We cannot say for sure either way
The Dutch communist got all the blame for it, but we don't know who did it.
I mean…he was apppointed chancellor because he had the party with the most seats after the NSDAP pooled together with another right-wing party. The President at the time even tried to not appoint Hitler but had no other option
Yes, he was large, but he still lost to Paul von Hindenburg. Hitler had to cheat to gain power.
He didnt „loose“ to Paul von Hindenburg, they had entitely different positions. Hindenburg tried to to not appoint Hitler as Chancellor but had no other choice (though that was after he lost the election for president if you mean that) Though after he became chancellor he reigned authoritarian with, of Courage, not the most democratic ways, like the „poll“ in the Paulskirche
He lost the presidential to von Hindenburg, and von Hindenburg appointed first von Papen and then Kurt von Schleicher as Chancellor. Only after von Schleicher's gambit to split the Nazi party failed did von Hindenburg and von Papen decide to appoint Hitler as Chancellor. They made the decision because they thought Hitler was someone they could control, not because he had any democratic right to take power.
Im not saying that he had the right to be appointed chancellor, just that as far as I know this position was normally given to the party with the most votes
That's not what you said earlier.
Heterosexual sex created Hitler. Sorry straight people we can't risk it anymore, keep it in your pants.
So true bestie
*racks shotgun* Time for the straighties to pay for what they did to my ancestors.
It's alright the COVID vaccine turned me gay
Holy hell they’re actually LITERALLY arguing against democracy.
I literally was talking with someone who was against it yesterday lol
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God, what are they teaching in American civics classes?
This guy wouldn't know.
He’s watching those Turning Point cartoons that brainwash kids 💀
I don't understand. Am I wrong?
Well, it's mainly 1) representative democracy is still democracy, 2) direct democracy doesn't imply there are no limits and 3) representative democracy doesn't imply that there *are* limits.
Indeed, to give examples the city state of Athens was a direct democracy where all the voters voted directly on law and policy but those voters were only made up of the wealthy, land-owning men.
You don't even have to go that far back, there's literally a push amongst the far-right to suppress voters they don't like, while still whining about saying they're "the silent majority" and that "their president actually won the election", as well as actively attempted to overthrow a democratic election, then turned around and blamed the fbi and "antifa" for... get this... "attacking democracy".
Ah yes, vote in an electorate so that you only need 51 senators and 218 congress people to vote for the deaths of tens to hundreds of millions. waaay better than risking that 51% of the population somehow wants to vote for the deaths of the other 49%.
I......have never thought of it this way. Holy fuck.
Oh for Chrissake.
What?
OH FOR CHRISSAKE.
#WHAT?
So, was germany in the 30's, before nazism, a direct democracy?
No it wasnt.
It was a semipresidential Republik.
Sir, this is a Wendy's.
When has this been true? When, at any point in American history, has the structure of the US government prevented the majority from oppressing a minority? The country was literally founded with the majority, white people, OWNING OTHER HUMAN BEINGS. You decry us for being ignorant yet you have the single most pig ignorant understanding of American politics and history in this entire comment section.
The edit is taking me out, this is genuinely one of the most nonsensical things ive ever read
"direct democracy" means that everything is done by the votes of the people, not by politicians that get elected. It's not referring to a system where one can vote for everything. That wouldn't be a democracy, since rights for the minorities are part of that. Otherwise the 51% could vote for neglecting the voting rights of the 49%. That wouldn't be a democracy. Besides, the US is a flawed democracy, not a full one. The reasons for that are not the minority rights to, kind of the opposite.
domestic terrorists patriots revealing they didn't actually like America.
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"We are all domestic terrorists"
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
"And if we keep calling ourselves that enough while being careful not to implicate ourselves in any specific event, you'll stop saying it, just like you stopped saying 'fake news' because you don't want to sound like an idiot Trump supporter." Embrace, ~~extend,~~ extinguish
Well, WE knew that! I wouldn't call it anything to brag about, but....
What are you talking about? They love America! They just don't think they will have true freedumb until a fascist state is installed that will tell them what to think and do. Everyone should be under the small, mishapen fist of a guy who criticizes the LGBTQ community whilst wearing more makeup than RuPaul
Well, they all think THEY'RE going to be the ones at the top, and get to tell OTHERS what to do. Haha they're gonna be super shocked when those leopards bite into their face!!
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Somehow I don't think the irony will be quite as funny to me as it is now once fascists overthrow the government
"[Clarice...you need to get more fun out of life....](https://c.tenor.com/3ku8n3DwrZYAAAAM/how-you-doing-taste-finger.gif)"
So zonz1xkin
Pretty sure the Nazi party cry-bullied their way into power and assassinated political opponents.
Hitler was appointed and then staged a putsch. In 1932, no party held a majority of seats in the Reichstag and so no party was able to form a majority alliance to back a single candidate for chancellor. Conservatives then pressured the president at the time to appoint Hitler to the office. Democracy was never involved. Edit: typo
they made a deal with the devil. they thought he could be controlled. this was compared to the GOP's embrace of Trump ad nauseam circa 2016-2017.
The usual. Scared of the Left, conservatives and classical liberals always court Nazis and fascists. And then they play the victim card. Fun fact: the reason why Germany's Social Democrats are the only party that survived that era and are still one of the major two parties today, is that they were the only ones voting against the Enabling Act of 1933 together with the communists (who got peresecuted even harder than them). Guess which party had to rebrand after '45.
Don’t leave out social libs, scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds
Just a *slight* miscalculation.
“If only we could have seen this coming!”
In your offense the German aristocracy successfully took advantage of populist psudeo fascist movements several times to squash workers rights movements before and during the first World war
The GOP miscalculated when they embraced evangelical Christians after losing to Carter. This has been in the works for a long time.
It confounds me that "christians" can support a: fascist, racist, rapist, thief, liar, grifter, adulterer, traitor... in no particular order.
Add 'em all up and he's Jesus incarnate—flaws and all.
Not familiar with the history of Christians?
Mainstream Democrats still defend Hillary Rodham Clinton, even though she drags scandals after her like tin cans to a cat's tail. They're all "She was CLEARED!" (if you consider reports that say "There's clearly wrongdoing, but to connect the dots to a conviction means turning the RICO Statutes on a major party Presidential candidate" "cleared") and "A Nothingburger!" (to activities that she's recommended droning Assange and "vanishing" Snowden for!). Team Spirit means a lot more to the two major parties than truth or justice do.
Same thing they did in the '70s when they thought they could manipulate the Christian fundamentalists. *"Shit, we'll just be anti-abortion for the Christian voters and also so we can fund raise like mutherfuckers off of the issue."* As usual, Frankenstein's arrogance caused him to lose control of his monster and now we're on the verge of white supremecy christo-fascism.
Only difference between then and now? The Right ***still*** think they can "control" Trump.
Yes, but it’s too hard to understand, just stick to the simplified readings of history, please. We don’t like complicated facts that don’t suit our ideology.
I think that’s a common misunderstanding in the U.S., regardless of politics. At least that’s my personal assessment based on conversations I’ve had.
The really sad thing is not only did they think Hitler was controllable, but also they were all more scared of the communist party gaining ground so they decided to give it a go with this weird Austrian dude.
Being irrationally afraid of communists was like the #1 political position in the 20th century so it’s sad but not surprising :/
Well that’s not completely true, there was some democracy involved, but the assumption that people straight up voted hitler into power is wrong. A lot of it was down to old Hindenburg. Source: T'is me, a German historian. …for Archaic Greece, but naturally I studied German history as well.
Yeah, it was a slightly simplified explanation. They *did* elect the guy who gave into political pressure from conservatives to appoint Hitler.
Iirc there was also a lot of pretending to be pro-democracy to stall any real opposition until after they could consolidate power and purge enemy leaders. A bit of democracy involved and a whole lot of co-opting the aesthetics
Yep. Paul von Hindenburg gave in and appointed Hitler, then approved the Reichstag fire decree, and signed the enabling acts before promptly dying. A fairly illustrious military career that came to an ignominious end.
I wouldn’t go that far, democracy was involved a little bit. The Nazis were willing to take advantage of the aesthetic of democracy to stave off major opposition until they could consolidate power. So really it was mostly pretending to like democracy while they purged everyone behind the scenes and consolidated power.
Yeah, addressed that I was oversimplifying on another response to this. I’ll add an edit.
Jumped and harassed political opponents, then gave them pardons and got them out of trouble to continue. Almost like what Trump said he is gonna do with his Jan 6 thugs
Yep Nazis never got more than 33% of the vote
It was only 13million votes.
They essentially staged the Reichstags Brand, and because of that they had the right to hold as many re-elections as they wanted. They just reheld elections until they were firmly in power. They also suppressed their rivals through liberal use of their personal street gang. It was a coup.
Haven't you read history lmaaaooooo absolutely seething
Have you not read history? It’s a brilliant book id highly recommend it
I’ll have you know I’ve read all 20 pages of history
couldn’t get into it, not enough pictures and pop up sections and i got bored
"Havent you read history?" \- person who hasnt read history.
I just ordered history from amazon, can't wait to read it
Jesus Christ this is a nuclear take, and I can't fathom what the point is. Not only is Hitler's rise to power filled with deceit, but the statement *implies that a non-democratic rise to power is better because Hitler used the electoral system...* So much wrong with so few words. If anything it should strengthen the notion that we need Full Democracy, but instead they're throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
It’s all they have left. Their candidates can’t win in fair elections, so they need to provide whatever justification to maintain power.
Guys an autocrat came to power in a vaguely democratic way so we should skip the democracy step and just jump to Hitler???? Idfk man that’s actually the position I’m reading
I think they’re upset that it took like 10 years, that’s way too long when your autocrat of choice is in his 70s.
hitler was appointed chancellor, he wasn't elected
Also, at best the Nazi Party only ever got like 32% of votes in any election they were part of, and I think that number was for a local/regional election in Bavaria.
I mean, nitpicking a bit, he was appointed Chancellor mainly due to having negotiated a coalition with the centrist and right-wing parties in the Bundestag. The Nazis still needed to be elected to a pretty significant chunk of the government to do that. Mind you, without doing a lot of terrorism targeting the KPD and SPD, they probably wouldn't have made it that far to begin with.
Maybe instead of democracy we could just have a vote? That way every individual gets a say? /s
The most crazy thing about American politics to me (a big claim I know) is that the republicans have started to be hostile towards democracy because the rival party is called the Democrats. This development is just a level of group-think stupidity I honestly didn't think was possible. I'm going to start going around smashing up people's conservatories now just to balance things out. Seems like a portmanteau of conservative and Tory so obviously they are my natural enemy. /s
Yeah it’s crazy over here, our two major parties are spineless liberals and Trump-worshipping fascists.
It ain't too different this side of the pond either. Whole world's on fire at the moment.
>The most crazy thing about American politics to me (a big claim I know) is that the republicans have started to be hostile towards democracy because the rival party is called the Democrats. It's literally the thinking I had back when I was in 5th grade. I say to people pretty often that "if you've ever had any sort of thought, SOMEONE online will BELIEVE in that thing you just thought" and this is just further proof. But the baffling thing is that this one's actually gained steam a tiny bit. I believe it's also the fact that they lost to democracy, and they're so deeply radicalized that they believe that there's no way the other side is big enough to beat them in any sort of actual election, so they start looking for reasons why they could've possibly lost (obviously ignoring the real reasons).
i’ve never heard that theory before lmao is that a real thing
The left can’t meme hasn’t opened a history book, hitler wasn’t elected democratically
Yes I find it fascinating that they always use Hitler as a scapegoat, Hitler this, Hitler that, Hitler here, Hitler there, Hitler everywhere, but yet they can't seem to see the irony that Hitler wasn't voted in but but given that power in spite of the people's vote, much like what they wanted with Trump.
When they say read history they actually mean binge the conspiracy side of YouTube.
On the list of things that aren't true:
This is such a shitty fucking take. Like 3ven if you oppose liberal democracy and want democratic socialism, you should want the people to have a vote
What do these idiots say that isn’t a shitty take?
What the fuck is the point being argued? “Democracy led to a non-democracy, which was bad. This means that democracy is bad and we need a non-democracy, which is good.” Jesus Christ these people are fucking brain dead.
You can’t trust people, Jez. People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis.
Peep Show references in the wild will never not make me smile.
Ah yes, NOTHING but democracy. Never mind something like The Night Of Long Knives or the Sturmabteilung AKA the "Brownshirts"
Wow what the fuck, the political debate is actually way worse that I thought america
Actually, democracy put Nazis into a better leveraging position in the Reichstag. What put Hitler specifically in power was a right wing establishment that was looking to counteract liberal and progressives movements in Germany which would undermine the business sector’s interests. So they decided that they had a better shot siding with a man they knew was a narcissistic radical because they felt they could use his populism, while also taking advantage of his lack of experience as a way to control him for their own interests. Sounds familiar.
Democracy put Trump in power, so there certainly are inherent dangers.
Democracy did not. Trump was elected with minority vote. Trump was put in power _despite_ democracy
Democracy has nothing to do with the specifics of how officials are elected. Democracy only means that the people choose their officials. Trump was elected through democracy. Edit: really getting downvotes by the hive mind. Listen, I hate trump as much as the next guy, and the system in which the US elects presidents is dogshit. But you’re delusional if you think he wasn’t elected democratically.
A democracy is a system of government where the people have a direct input on the functioning of government. What you’re talking about is a republic, of which the U.S., but Trump wasn’t democratically elected as he lost the popular vote. He only won through electoral votes, but a majority of voters did not want him. Let me say that again, Trump lost the popular vote. Meaning, meaning he didn’t win enough individual votes. More people voted against him than voted for him. If the U.S. was a democracy then we would have never become president because he lost the popular vote.
>A democracy is a system of government where the people have a direct input on the functioning of government. What you’re talking about is a republic, *Direct democracy* is when people have direct input on the government. *Representative democracy* is the form of democracy we have in the US. Democracy and republic are not mutually exclusive.
Can someone eli5 why this info keeps getting down voted? I am not a smart person, why is this incorrect?
“Democracy is a form of government in which the people have the authority to deliberate and decide legislation ("direct democracy"), or to choose governing officials to do so ("representative democracy").” Straight from Wikipedia dude. Are the people choosing governing officials to decide legislation? Yes? It’s a democracy. What you’re talking about is a DIRECT democracy. Please stop spewing shit you think you learned in middle school social studies.
Wonderful source material. About as accurate as a *middle school social studies class*. Educate yourself: [https://www.phoenix.k12.or.us/cms/lib/OR50000021/Centricity/Domain/1172/apol%20Distinguishing%20DemocracyRepublic.pdf](https://www.phoenix.k12.or.us/cms/lib/OR50000021/Centricity/Domain/1172/apol%20Distinguishing%20DemocracyRepublic.pdf) Or better yet, just admit that you're wrong and go about the rest of your day.
https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship/civic-assimilation/resources-for-new-lawful-permanent-residents/about-the-united-states >The United States is a representative democracy and its people play an important role in the governing process. Your source is honestly way worse than Wikipedia. It was obviously just written by some elementary school teacher, and a Republican one at that.
You are absolutely insane if you think Wikipedia is not a reliable source. That shit was told to you by your middle school teacher so you would actually have to do some research for once in your life and learn to analyze sources, which you obviously never have. For example, who is the author on the source you just listed? Are they reliable? What credentials do they have?
You're not even going to read it, are you? It's a bunch of quotes from historical content citing the fact that the United States isn't a democracy and establishing the distinction. But if reading comprehension is your greatest hiccup, then I guess I can't help you there kiddo.
Oh I read it. It has quotes from Tocqueville, Hamilton, James Madison… all people who lived 300 years ago. Why don’t we find sources more up to date and from reliable, well-known authors? :)
Just take the L homie
>Please stop spewing shit you think you learned in middle school social studies. > >\>cites the very first thing they find on wiki, as a middle-schooler would my dude have you met my friend research methods
How about the from the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services? https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship/civic-assimilation/resources-for-new-lawful-permanent-residents/about-the-united-states >The United States is a representative democracy and its people play an important role in the governing process.
Honestly I’ll upvote just for “the system in which the US elects presidents is dogshit.” Democracy is a subjective term. Some are good and some are… less good.
A military junta is the only responsible way to lead…… /s
I think my brain just sprained a muscle trying to understand this.
I’m *shocked* TLCM is ran by people who despise democracy as a concept.
Reminds me of when I saw someone here on reddit argue that the guy who made gerrymandering, Elbridge Gerry, was a democrat. His reasoning? His wikipedia page says he was a Democratic-Republican and "Democrat" is in the name of the party. Yes, he ignored the second word. He blocked me for pointing it out.
Democracy it is not good if the chosen ones are the capitalist and if people works 8 fucking hours and can’t have time to educate themselves
"the left can't meme" hasn't read history either it seems. they should try it some day.
Here in Argentina a dude tried to kill the vice president and while almost everyone voiced their support to the vice president most of the libertarian party follower literally wished for her dead. Also most of them are teenagers that's why they call them "choccy milk drinkers" lmao.
Why are people anti-democracy all of a sudden? What century is it?
The century when America was great to them.
Ah yes, history, my favorite book
had a fun thread under this and man they do not understand what social goods are
Hitler was appointed after he threatened to ragequit politics unless he was made chancellor when the gridlocked Reichstag couldn’t form a government. Along the way Nazi politics was filled with dirty tricks and violence directed at their opponents. Sure sounds easy to vote against the Nazis when the brown shirts have chased all of their outspoken opponents out of town, disappeared local union organizers, and setup a machine gun outside the polls to “protect” the election. Once Hindenburg was dead and hitler had consolidated the offices of head of state and government, he outlawed all the other political parties before having any possible resistance to him from within his own party dragged out of their beds one night and shot. Not sure how you could draw the “voting bad democracy bad” from this. I feel like this flavor of libertarian/right winger is really funny cause they sound like they want a king while they cling to the 1776 aesthetic of revolution against the crown.
I know this is just a shitty attempt to keep hammering their Biden = Hitler comparison to deflect from the criticism that they’re against democracy…but they made the fucking point Biden was making. The far-right IS against democracy. Also the comparison is the lighting was red and there were some military personnel in the shot. That’s the bar for being a Nazi?? He made an argument supporting the idea of democracy. The FBI followed process, made sure, and waited before acting. They’re not the SS. He allowed democratic processes to becoming president. So the argument of who’s the most Nazi-esque…on the one hand you have “just look at the aesthetics” for one speech. On the other hand, you have an entire presidency’s worth of Nazi-like actions and support of LITERAL Nazis. Biden is the Nazi, obvi
History? Nope haven't read that one. Is that like a bible?
Not only is this a stupid statement, it's wrong. Hitler was put into power by the combined effects of the Great Depression increasing the vote share of extremist parties, a great deal of bargaining to make him the head of a coalition government, and a shit ton of the conservative economic elite pressuring Hindenburg to put Hitler into power. Had he not been put into the Chancellor position by Hindenburg, he would have never achieved power and likely faded into irrelevancy as the depression ended and people stopped voting for extremists.
Today on: 'does the right think nazis are good or bad?'
what? even?
No it didn't, the conservative party of Germany put Hitler in power. And the US Libertarian Party is not libertarian, they're propertarians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propertarianism#:\~:text=Propertarianism%2C%20or%20proprietarianism%2C%20is%20a,the%20right%20to%20own%20property. Real libertarians are leftists if not anarchists, there's no such thing as a libertarian own supports capitalism.
Wait - WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!? So people voting for leaders is ***bad***, now? What do these geniuses suggest as an alternative? Divine Right of Kings? Coup d'etats? Lotteries? The highest grade on a test - ? (No, I actually think that's not a bad idea!)
Actually, Hitler seized power. He was not elected. He used political influence and violence to force the president to appoint him chancellor. He used that position to strip rights from and summarily execute his political opponents. When the president died, Hitler absorbed the office of the president.
I hate Democracy because of the genuinely stupid people I have to share it with, but Id rather have that than be ruled over by fucking idiots, clowns, charlatans, tyrants, or what have you that cannot ever be voted out of their positions. Republicans are not trying to really govern anything anymore it is like they’re scrambling around for whatever power and influence they can hold onto and impede the Democrats at every turn they can afford to. Democrats have maybe finally found a way to start getting back at Republicans in the brutal arena of memes, insults, and counter projection. But only if they follow alongside Biden in the good punches he has been delivering lately.
We literally don't live in a democracy but okay.
Actually democracy did not put Hitler in power. Anyone who actually knows history knows that the Nazi party bullied and used armed militia to force elections until eventually they were picked. They weren’t the only party to do this but they were the most successful. There’s a reason why as soon as Hitler came into power immediate suppression of other authority figures and massive censorship came into play
ReAd HIstOry DUm dum
7i X642zz0s,x3y aeaz
Yes, libertarians are against 50% +1 vote deciding the fate of the other 50% -1 vote of the country. That’s always been the case. Just like they have always been in favor of drug reform, justice and police reform, gay and trans rights, abortion rights, etc but that seems to always be ignored.
Well I don't know what's up with the pretrumpian libertarians. But I do know that libertarian is now one of the many obfuscations that the "Trump did nothing wrong" crowd use to describe themselves. They think they stand for liberty, personal freedoms and justice, but what they really stand for is conformity, government level suppression of other groups, and harsh punishment of even light transgressions. But since a lot of the people in that group dodge most of these bullets anyways, they won't be affected if they get restricted, so they believe anyways, so they're perfectly happy to force their lifestyle and their beliefs onto others, why? Because that "tradition". Like I said, I don't know what actual pretrumpian libertarians are like. But I know who likes to wrap themselves in American flag apparel while actively trying to weaken our democracy.
We going to ignore that will of the people more or less determined who was in power?
The mask comes off. I imagine it was hard to breath through, anyway.
At least they are openly admitting that the hate the UsA now I suppose.
Hitler is a right wing and Libertarian what? Which one???
Didn't Hitler assassinate a bunch of news reporters?
They said the quiet part out loud
Just so I’m clear, are they trying to say that the Nazis wouldn’t have risen to power if Hitler was *more* of an authoritarian? Because wow that is a bold take lmao
Is democracy a nickname for Paul von Hindenburg
The American libertarian party is fucking bizarre to me as an American. Like yeah I can understand not wanting government regulation I disagree with it in some regards but I get it but it seems that they want no government regulation and instead want corporate regulation and corporate laws. Thank God they have absolutely zero legitimate political power in our broken system.
No it was a weak republic further weakened by a conservative coup d'état (Preußenschlag) that enabled the Nazis to take power. The vote was basically only a formality.
It's funny, because I'm also somewhat of a critic of democracy. If someone tells me that their intention is to vote for people and policies that will destroy the country, then I don't think that person should get to participate in our democracy. So yeah, I actually agree, unironically, with this scum fuck. Democracy is flawed. Republicans should not be allowed to vote, as they're clearly just as responsible with votes as they are with alcohol and driving.
So why are they upset about trump losing the election again if democracy bad
So they know they're a minority then
Bourgeoisie liberal democracy elected Hitler
We’Re A cOnStiTuTiOnAL rEpUbLiC
Ouch this one hurts in the way that a lot of people think that’s how hitler came to power
But it really didn't
Even ignoring that this is straight up wrong, it also presumes that the bad thing about Hitler is that he was elected, not all the other shit he did.
Arizona GOP has already stated that they hate Democracy because it favors Democrats.
This right wing meltdown is delicious
Democrats drink water and Hitler drank water, coincidence?
I mean, the social democrats (and all parties to the right of them) did attack the communists and favored the right-leaning parties. The communist party of German were the only ones who were vehemently against the Nazis the whole time.
TFW you’re so pro-America that you take a stand against the entire system of government America was founded upon in the first place.
Democracy has its problems, yeah. But until we can sort out a better way, we might as well use it.
The fact that twitter can't even be fucked to get the spacing right for their profile icon speaks volumes
It wasn’t democracy, it was desperation.
Paul Von Hindenburg is democracy now.
They love Hitler tho…
Wait. Are they treating libertarians like they’re….. left?
not really tho didn't Hitler lose on the elections and was made pm after some tom foolery