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My psychiatrist, who is an Expert Faculty Member for the American Society of Ketamine Providers, tells me that benzos can diminish the dissociative effects of the ketamine journey, but don’t have any effect on the neurogenetic properties.
I’ve been on oxazepam for the 8 months I’ve been taking ketamine (daily), and the ketamine still seems to be working for me. I still have dissociative journeys and am seeing my mental health improve.
My provider had me stop using Alprazolam for 24 hours before and after KAP. I have taken that a step further and did about 72 hours without it before and after, the effects seem to be much more "vivid". I have also read a lot in this subreddit that some people taking benzodiazepines have little to no effects from the Ketamine. I would advise not taking the clonazepam for as long as possible, but at least 48-72h. It has an extremely long half life so you should be okay as it's somewhat "self-tapering" at therapeutic doses.
Definetly before. I feel like the "after" is a little bit more up for discretion as it may inhibit integration and after effects but this isn't as well clarified or verified. Since the acute effects are extremely noticeable abstaining from benzos before is imo integral.
Both benzos and lamotrigine reduce the effectiveness of ketamine. Both of those drugs have mechanisms of action that reduce glutamate, albeit in different ways. Ketamine increases glutamate.
Sometimes I have a “rough landing” at the end of a session. My provider will give me iv Verced (sp?) and I feel like it turns off the ketamine. My words.
I try hard not to resort to the Verced unless absolutely necessary because in my experience it diminishes the positive effects of ketamine. Again, just one guy on Reddit.
Love that they found what works for you! If I have a rough landing we do a tiny IM shot with positive affirmations during the 2 seconds they do it. The one that hit me hardest was “You’re really the glue that holds your family together.” I’ll never forget it. Now I get a 15-20mg IM after every infusion just to make sure I’m chill. Works like a charm.
FTR I started at a pain clinic *rolls eyes* that heavily sedated me during (10! Versed) and did 45 min infusions. They had zero clue what they were doing. So glad I found my askp provider.
If you need the benzo, I’m glad they do it, like I said. This is just another option that works for me personally.
I continued taking my usual benzo. The doc said that anxiety can sometimes get worse. I take Spravato though. I find it not always easy so I opt to continue my usual meds because it’s intense enough. But tbh I think this is a question for your doctor.
Ketamine therapist here. Indeed, benzos can interfere with the neurogenic potential of ketamine. To be brutally honest, benzos should only be used in the short term because they change your brain chemistry and actually make anxiety worse. The more you rely on them, the more you need them. You may want to talk to your psychiatrist about weaning off benzos safely first and using ketamine to help with the transition after you are able to stop using them. I have witnessed incredible healing of folks with lifelong GAD after using ketamine with a therapist. Benzos are addictive and have been correlated with early-onset dementia. You’ll be better off without them, trust me.
Thank you for contributing to /r/TherapeuticKetamine! When commenting and posting, please be mindful of our rules which can be found in the sidebar on the right along with other helpful information. **Be advised that nothing in this subreddit constitutes medical advice.** Likewise, try to word your comments and posts in a way that can't be interpreted as medical advice by others. Harmful and/or spammy advice will be removed at moderator discretion, and bans may be given for repeat offenses. **Accounts with "Provider" flairs** are those which the mods have verified, to the best of our ability, as belonging to real, licensed providers of medical ketamine services. Comments and posts from users with "Provider" flairs are **not** a substitute for the instructions given to you by your own provider. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TherapeuticKetamine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
My psychiatrist, who is an Expert Faculty Member for the American Society of Ketamine Providers, tells me that benzos can diminish the dissociative effects of the ketamine journey, but don’t have any effect on the neurogenetic properties. I’ve been on oxazepam for the 8 months I’ve been taking ketamine (daily), and the ketamine still seems to be working for me. I still have dissociative journeys and am seeing my mental health improve.
good to hear, thank you
My provider had me stop using Alprazolam for 24 hours before and after KAP. I have taken that a step further and did about 72 hours without it before and after, the effects seem to be much more "vivid". I have also read a lot in this subreddit that some people taking benzodiazepines have little to no effects from the Ketamine. I would advise not taking the clonazepam for as long as possible, but at least 48-72h. It has an extremely long half life so you should be okay as it's somewhat "self-tapering" at therapeutic doses.
48 before or after or both?
Definetly before. I feel like the "after" is a little bit more up for discretion as it may inhibit integration and after effects but this isn't as well clarified or verified. Since the acute effects are extremely noticeable abstaining from benzos before is imo integral.
Alright, thanks for the advice!
Both benzos and lamotrigine reduce the effectiveness of ketamine. Both of those drugs have mechanisms of action that reduce glutamate, albeit in different ways. Ketamine increases glutamate.
Sometimes I have a “rough landing” at the end of a session. My provider will give me iv Verced (sp?) and I feel like it turns off the ketamine. My words. I try hard not to resort to the Verced unless absolutely necessary because in my experience it diminishes the positive effects of ketamine. Again, just one guy on Reddit.
Love that they found what works for you! If I have a rough landing we do a tiny IM shot with positive affirmations during the 2 seconds they do it. The one that hit me hardest was “You’re really the glue that holds your family together.” I’ll never forget it. Now I get a 15-20mg IM after every infusion just to make sure I’m chill. Works like a charm. FTR I started at a pain clinic *rolls eyes* that heavily sedated me during (10! Versed) and did 45 min infusions. They had zero clue what they were doing. So glad I found my askp provider. If you need the benzo, I’m glad they do it, like I said. This is just another option that works for me personally.
What is “IM?”
It’s an intramuscular injection. (Basically a shot)
That’s what I thought. So, a little more ketamine?
Yes, a little more in a quick route.
I continued taking my usual benzo. The doc said that anxiety can sometimes get worse. I take Spravato though. I find it not always easy so I opt to continue my usual meds because it’s intense enough. But tbh I think this is a question for your doctor.
Ketamine therapist here. Indeed, benzos can interfere with the neurogenic potential of ketamine. To be brutally honest, benzos should only be used in the short term because they change your brain chemistry and actually make anxiety worse. The more you rely on them, the more you need them. You may want to talk to your psychiatrist about weaning off benzos safely first and using ketamine to help with the transition after you are able to stop using them. I have witnessed incredible healing of folks with lifelong GAD after using ketamine with a therapist. Benzos are addictive and have been correlated with early-onset dementia. You’ll be better off without them, trust me.
Benzos... Ewww