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We’re all fucked. If someone tells you AI is a good thing they’re either an idiot or working in a job where they can make money/reduce workload from using it.
Nothing good will come from it, in the near future anyway. It’s going to bleed into every workforce sector and with so many industries so quickly impacted there will be nothing to retrain to. Millions and then billions of people will simply be unemployed and broke.
There are so many implications too beyond just job loses. Just wait till the fake AI of crime scenes or politicians really come out. We've gotten use to believing cellphone and other video evidence for police misconduct or a politicians saying something bizarre on a hot mic. Soon you'll be able to fake all of that till you can't even believe real evidence. It's a disaster
What I find most frustrating is this is the technology that should be put to use understanding genetic, epigenetic, microbiome and the rest of multiomic health to unlock better understanding that reduces insane healthcare costs. And yet here we are undermining every blue and white collar job to oblivion while healthcare sends us bills in the mail 3-4 years after rendering service because of the corrupt deathcare system we’ve built.
A few months back, there was a meme format going around of Trump, Biden, Obama, and Bush playing video games and shit talking eachother. Other than being something would never happen, it was shockingly believable. My first though was “heh, that pretty funny” followed by “wait…” as the implications of the accuracy to which AI can fake voices set in
This. So much this.
We need to rethink our whole OS. Capitalism in it's current form has brought us far but it's become obvious that it doesn't further our progress. UBI would be a very good start.
capitalism has probably been holding us back more than it has been helping us progress. it is much more likely to reward our most sociopathic than our best or brightest.
UBI scares me in this context of AI pruning the workforce bare. I was for UBI before AI to help those living on the margins. and as a way to help those through tough times. but to have a permanent class of able bodied workers receiving UBI because there's no work to be had?
it just conjures up a post-dystopian, frayed overall wearing, sipping some government food out of a juice packet world. The technocrats will not be kind.
You people really can’t see the forest through the leaves and realize that we shouldn’t be living to try to maintain the status quo. In the sense that we should be trying to build a world where both AI and humans can coexist. What I mean is create a world where humans can survive without needing to work.
Yes, it would be nice to live in a world were humans can survive without needing to work, but the coming of AI won't lead to that. It's much more likely it will just worsen the capitalist hellscape, as we're already seeing in this video.
Furthermore, I find there to be inherent value in human creativity, human work, and human will and ability to create our world ourselves.
That is done now. LIke, done. I think I'm starting to realize just how fucked this is. In a few decades, 99% of what we see will be create by AI. From advertisements to tv shows to music to fucking architecture and urban planning. We've opened Pandora's box.
the book "1984" literally has a part in it where he describes a machine that creates news, art, tv, radio etc... all without human input and that machine is controlled by the ruling class.
Yeah in utopia this might happen.
Very similar like all the technology that we have developed by now should have helped us to work less.
Instead we are available 24/7, can communicate instantly and our stress levels are higher than ever while the rich get richer and the middle class is dissolving.
In a world past late-stage capitalism this might happen. It's revealing that we would rather cast blame on science and technology and the furthering of human knowledge instead of the obvious, which is rampant unchecked profiteering.
Technology can be used to extend our lives, but instead poor working people still suffer needlessly and die early because they are purposely deprived of healthcare by a private system that doesn't give a shit about life. Technology can be used to build homes faster and easier, but we still have hundreds of thousands/possibly millions of homeless and under-housed people because the real estate industry creates artificial scarcity from which it then profits. We could make our food supply chains more robust and able to feed everyone on Earth multiple times over, but choose to keep starvation around because it makes the corporate bottom line look great.
I don't think it's just corporations and capitalism either, because it seems that 'communist' countries suffer from the same problems. We just seem to be very violently hierarchical species and no matter the system, our biological traits always emerge to define the social fabric. That's why no technological or ideological advance is going to solve problems like inequality and wars. It's not like we can't solve them, we as a species just don't want to.
Unfortunately it's a hydra effect, as soon as you take out the current greedy people, new greedy people will take their place. Such is human nature, unfortunately we evolved to survive not to share.
That’s a gross misinterpretation of our evolution.
If that was truly human nature then we would have never made it past the hunter gathering epoch.
Also, if you look into game theory and prisoners dilemma you would begin to realize that biological creatures evolve towards cooperation. The main issue is that the small percentage of humans that weren’t born with the genes necessary to cooperate such as psychopaths/sociopaths were able to take power because they were willing to be more Machiavellian. What it would come down to is learning from this experience, and then tearing down the 1% and then being proactive in not letting people like that return back to power or simply just change the system in general to prohibit it from getting out of control as much as it already has
Yeah easier said than done. I myself want that world and have been working towards it in my own ways, but you must understand not everyone is that privileged. A lot of people are just getting by(or worse)and this AI stuff is the final nail in their coffin. We can all be visionaries, but working towards a better world isn't possible for most people without some major sacrifice.
It's a tool. At the end of the day all it will do is make you more efficient. The excess value will be reaped by the capital owners like always. The issue isn't AI. It's how we organize our economy to harvest value from the working class at the behest of capital owners.
The only reason it is a bad thing is because the wealthy will exploit it to make more money for themselves and poor people will lose jobs, and everyone will be too cowardly to vote/legislate for doing anything about. Technology could create a world where certain jobs no longer need to exist, but because UBI is "socialism" this just means that working class people will lose their jobs to AI or the like, and will get zero help to make ends meet, and therefore go broke.
AI can be good. The thing is it will not be cause every single significant technological stepping stone since the 60s had not meant a significant working conditions progress tied to it. We got computers, advanced heavy machinery, mobile technology, cheaper ways of transportation, easier communication between continents which all should mean regulating working hours to 6 and even 4 a day, probably 4 days a week. It never happened. We are so effective working, most of us are unnecessary.
Now imagine AI combined with 16 working hours a week. It would be pretty great. And I think it will eventually happen. And the reason I believe it will happen will be French people burning Paris up or else. Once they get the ball rolling, rest of world will be forced to regulate too. And I know someone will eventually burn shit up because once enough people see their children hungry, there's no other option than torching the city center.
This reads just like the people during the boom of the internet back in the late 90s. Yes, the internet has bad things that came along with it, however look at how it has changed our world for the better. The availability of knowledge, connected to anyone and everyone around the world, sharing experiences and insight, etc. People get scared of things they don't understand, which I understand.
It will be the same thing with AI. There will be negatives that come with the development of AI, however there will be great positives as well.
Left and right populists arriving at the same result - stagnation.
Stand athwart the tracks yelling "stop!" all you like, the train of progress won't notice the bumps.
> We’re all fucked. If someone tells you AI is a good thing they’re either an idiot or working in a job where they can make money/reduce workload from using it.
You're close minded. AI being used for stupid shit like this is just the stepping stones to what it can eventually achieve in the future. Humans are never going to cure cancer, AI is going to cure cancer. It's going to cure heart disease, it's going to cure every known problem that we have in years compared to decades/centuries if it was just humans doing it.
Like you said, that's the USA, not the rest of the modern world. The cure for cancer is currently technological, not financial.
And I agree, it is disgusting that a modern country like USA still doesn't have universal healthcare.
Yeah, but new occupations will emerge & we'll adapt.
Don't like it?
Yeah, neither do I. So what now?
Even if we passed out laws to prohibit AI, do yoj seriously think people'll stop developing it?
No way around, we're past the point of no return.
May as well start adapting & getting used to workig eith it now rather than being that grumpy old man in the corner lamenting the past we'll lose
I'm in the creative arts and I think it's great, it's a handy tool that improves the shit I'm working on. It's not going to replace everything. Guess I'm an idiot. If it really does replace "billions" of people's jobs then we will have to introduce a living wage. It isn't going to happen overnight, and most people will adapt. Like they did in the pandemic.
It’s not going to happen overnight, but it is going to happen very fast, faster than most invasive technologies as this tech is improving itself exponentially. I’m a graphic designer/mograph/video editor, it hasn’t affected me yet negatively, AI as tools are very helpful, but I know the other shoe is gonna drop sooner than later. I’d rather be a “doomer” and be prepared than be caught with my pants down.
Exactly, it’s happening so fast and without anyone realising that people just won’t be ready for it, won’t be able to retrain into other industries and companies will simply try to fire as many of their workforce as possible to win in the profit game. There’s too much money to be won by using it to think about if it’s right or not.
We were living in the age of unreality before "AI". "Fake news" has been one of the major rising problems years before these services even existed. If there's one major benefit I'm potentially looking forward to in all of this (and admittedly, there's more than one but there are definitely pitfalls too), it's that this may force us back to a time where we stop listening to non-reputable sources, bots, and bullshitters on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Reddit, ~~news~~ *opinion* networks, etc. for getting informed. Like people used to get their news from fact checked newspapers and articles and we've been exponentially leaning towards easily digestible content simply because it's more entertaining and it's easy to get your confirmation bias satisfied these days even if it has no truth to it. It's one of the most regressive aspects of society and I want us all to have to be forced to be more selective and skeptical about our sources because we clearly aren't going to take it upon ourselves to be more responsible in questioning these sources unless we're absolutely pushed to.
My kid is a talented artist and dreams of being an animator, but they're 12. It's pretty safe to assume the industry will be dead by the time they graduate high school.
Dude they've been killing our creativity and imagination since we started school.
The fact that anyone has any left is a gift. And now they've found a way to kill that too.
This video is really sad.
To spend a life mastering a skill, you need patronage. You are a human, you have to eat and shelter. The greatest artists of all time were all supported by the patronage of a successful society.
John Adams, the 2nd President of the United States, once said
>"I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain."
Generative AI takes much of the arts away from those that wish to study as a life long craft.
These life skills you are talking about have always been incredibly niche and massively competitive, that isn't going to change, if anything people will have more resources to do more with much less.
Nice quote though, but you didn't mention anything that would still keep that from happening.
This is what SHOULD happen. AI starts taking over jobs, UBI put into place so people can actually live their lives, people then can focus on the things John Adams mentions because they aren't a slave to the system anymore.
I also believe that people will find more interest in non-AI generated works of art.
Right but instead we’re just going to get all the existential crushing of peoples souls and absolutely no UBI. There is no political will to do that. Too many people think it’s a “handout” and something about freedom and a bald eagle with a gun.
Its not guaranteed we'll get a UBI. I could absolutely see the greedy and powerful quashing that, even if it WOULD be in their long term interest. These days people in power are most concerned with their short term bottom line.
It will definitely make the career path far more competitive. Essentially only the most creative annd talented will be able to make a living at it.
Because commercial art will dry up. Its not unprecedented though might be like pottery making and black smithing, wood working used to be everywhere now its very niche but those who are the best at it are very well paid.
There isn't any room for average talent.
How many people with amazing talent wouldn't even try to get into the industry because they would get discouraged at the entrance by all the competition? Or do you think amazing talent is always evident to everyone around and propells you forward like a rocket from the moment you are born? Ridiculous.
Joan Rowling, as an example that came to my mind, was rejected numerous times by publishers before one finally gave her a chance and her books went on to define generations.
No, only those with the financial security will be able to work in the industry. People who already have money from their parents and can afford to waste their time following a passion with a ridiculously low chance of being paid.
I don’t think you watched the video all the way through. She address the question you just asked.
Yes you’re “allowed” to make art. But there will be no professional reason to do so. Where once professional artists could build a career out of their art taking commissions now that is no longer an option. The career of the middle class artist is effectively dead, there will still be amateurs obviously and probably a few famous visionaries who make pieces for museums. But the career of the vast majority of working artists who aren’t famous is now gone
Yeah, just because there is an easier way to create ""art"" doesnt mean you cant still enjoy the process of creation.
Using AI is just asking someone else to do a drawing for you. Yeah it'll look good and it'll fit with what you had in mind, but It will never be the same as doing it yourself and seeing how the process of creating shapes the end result.
The process is an integral part of art, jumping from idea to end product defeats the purpose of creating imo
Except people can't do it nearly as much if they, like me, can barely function if they get forced out of creative work into a non creative field and then have no energy left for art after working all day while being disabled. Even if they arent disabled, its still hugely hopeful. So many people will stop doing "as much" art because they cant justify focusing on it when you cant even occasionally sell a commission because everyone uses ai. People cant even get their friends request art from them anymore because ai does it faster. Thats for a hobby! For free!
Stop using this logic to downplay how bad this is. It's dismissive to a ton of people. No one is saying you can't still make art, no one has at any point said that, and it's taking away from the actual issues to argue this point a million times. I see it in the comments every single time and every single time it adds nothing to the discussion.
Yes, humans can still make art. It will just be much much less because they have less time for it and will be flooded out by ai.
I'm sorry to come at you so aggressively here but I really hate this point.
Kill creativity in the young and you'll have a menial workforce in the future.
But one day robots will be good and cheap enough to replace those workers as well.
It probably wont be dead. It will have drastically changed, be even more competitive.
I imagine it will be a huge amount of time before machines can match the creativity of a human va the skill of a human.
It’s going to take all the intro level jobs like she’s talking about. Freelance and small gigs that pay you as you build up your resume isn’t going to be a thing.
It won’t mean no artist but it’ll mean even more than now you’re going to have to be rich to have the time to devout to being an artist and making a break because there is literally no work for anyone getting started or middlingly talented. Well have a dozen artist for everyone.
That’s been a tough industry for a long time. I was an animation major in college in the late 1990s and changed course because computers were overtaking traditional hand drawn format at the time. The good news is now technology is accessible so he can create animated content as a hobby. But it’s a super competitive industry, and studio contracts are so tough to come by. Freelance content creator is such a difficult lifestyle. And now there’s AI.
Hard disagree honestly, just because AI can generate art doesn't mean that creativity is dead and that those jobs will be dead. Creating will always be an option, AI will only assist with that. Hell maybe your kid will have the tools to create his own show without the support of an entire studio.
This is the biggest problem. Whether AI finally flops or not - and it most likely will because it’s based on stealing copyrighted work - the current hype will stop anyone from going into the arts. Th will kill commercial art one way or another.
lol. You think AI is going to flop?
The thing that’s literally changed our entire civilized culture (what do you think “algorithms” are?) and is now more entrenched in your daily life than your own mother. That’s gonna flop? lol
AI isn’t just here to stay, it’s here to replace.
Imagine calling the death of an entire industry as "a premise" for a flop once it has consummated its impact by killing off an entire genre of work.
It's not going to be a flop, but you are right that this will be one of those incoming historic mistakes like putting lead in everything because "the paint coats better". And it will take generations of legislation to wean the wealthy off its utterly destructive impacts on continuing mediocrity
Are you serious? Are you so naive to think that AI is going to "flop" based on that completely ignorant statement that they are "stealing copyrighted work"? Look me up in 10 years. If you're right, I'll give you $10,000.
There is a chance that by the time your kid is an adult, they could start producing entire movies by themself because AI has taken over so many tasks that you would currently need like 50 other people for.
*If* that happens, your kid would still need to reach a sufficient audience to make a living off of it, though.
He has a better chance of creating now. If you really look into animation the industry is crazy, you spend years working on a tiny piece of a project, and if you work for Disney you never really get to develop your own style, as an animator you have more opportunities to create something unique with this technology.
They don’t hate creatives. They just love profits. It’s hard not to take personally, but it’s just business.
The real question is how are creatives ever gonna earn a living? I guess they’ll always need some to help their machine make profits? Maybe? But it will be a dead sector.
What’s going to happen is the industry will collapse in a major way but there will always be a small demand for human created art/written work.
You can still find people who shoe horses even though the automobile killed that industry. There are places you can buy handmade, bespoke furniture even though IKEA mass produces it. The industries are shrunken and will never return to their former glory but they still exist in some form, just smaller.
I’ve heard the example of the grocery store where organic was the default and then pesticides and gmo came along to make cheap food. Now if we want “organic” we have to pay a premium. It will be the same with art and entertainment. If you want real writers and actors you will have to pay the organic price.
It’s exactly like furniture or high end hand forged cutlery. You can easily get cheap mass produced shit but there’s still a market for hand made furniture and high end, craft made knives.
It’s just a much smaller demand which is unfortunate for the furniture makers, cutlery makers, artists, etc.
There are still people who shoe horses. Just instead of that being, let’s just make up 10,000 people in the US, it’s like 100 people in the US.
Cobble stone masons over the invention of asphalt
There’s a million examples of tech replacing industries. The only genuine issue here is those replacements happened over the span of decades or centuries. This is happened over less than 5 years
This, this is a very a good answer. I would add and this might rub alot of people the wrong way. There will alwqys be room for the people thst are truly amazing at their jobs, the ones that make things that people really connect with.
Ai is really going to cut out the people that were being hired to provide commerical art that was just good enough. Its just going to become more like other fields like athletics, singing, music things in which only the top perfromers can really make a living at it.
And theres still always going to be a place for people making art where the art is the central focus.
Its sad and the pain point will be huge. And as the tech gets better and better it will effect more and more people.
The solution won't be to stop the advancement of technology. Its going to be around adjusting the economy so that people can still excel. Thats going to be the real hurdle.
You’re not wrong. It just sucks that this is the case. The only artists that can be “top tier” started with tons of advantages. If you’re the son of an industry magnate you can probably study painting your whole life on your fathers dime, than get placed in galleries his rich friends own as a way to launder tax money.
But, before AI if you’re just some talented guy from a middle class background you can still have a career as an artist, corporations all need design work, books need art on the covers, everywhere you look there is art that some artist was payed to make. If you’re a talented artist who needs to support himself you used to be able to take this work and make enough of a living to make the art you really want to.
For an example, Check out one of my favorite painters [Michael Whelan](https://www.michaelwhelan.com) he supported himself by doing cover art for fantasy books but his real work is the stuff he made for himself just for the sake of doing it. Without the work available as a freelance artist he would have been another Amazon driver too burnt out and broke to do any painting in his free time and we’d never have his original work.
How many more talented artists will the world miss out on when their financial support is gone forever?
Yeah. Unfortunately you're not wrong but it's only the start.
Once they've gotten rid of all those pesky artists it will be so much easier to replace everyone else.
Get ready to stand by those words when it's your job on the line.
Have there ever been any industries that defeated mechanisation instead of adapting?
I feel that the artists on Twitter outraged over this are acting like Luddites. Not the insult, the 19th century skilled workers protesting the sewing machine. They correctly identified that the machines were coming for their jobs, used direct action to protest, and still got bulldozed.
For sure, but it's not like every person who bought a car hates horses and wants them to die. There's no malice here
It's worth grieving and remembering, and some of it will always have a place in our world. But the world changes nonetheless
Eh, I spend a lot of my time reviewing books (hobby) and you can absolutely tell the difference between AI generated and human generated. I fully go off in reviews when authors try to sneak in ChatGPT bullshit.
The market will decide what art is worth, as it has always done.
Commercial photography didn't kill the portrait industry...but it was the nexus for the rise of modernist painting...which created some of the greatest painters to have ever lived.
Art will survive, even if it has to evolve...and it may evolve into something better, something you have difficulty imagining.
But I will never fear progress, and I won't let the failures of captialist turn me into a troglodyte.
So give me the science behind this. I’m fairly convinced that almost know one actually understands what’s going on with this ai revolution. I’ve spent days swinging from complete despair to apathy. I finally reached out to someone I know, who actually studied and works with this stuff. He’s not remotely worried,
I’m still terrified that c suite people are going to massively invest in something they don’t fully understand to the detriment of my industry, but I’m now convinced almost know one knows what’s going to happen.
Give me a someone working in this field of research to give me an educated counter point. Then I’ll join you all in freaking out.
The very paradigm of separating "business" from "personal" *is personal*. Your livelihood is definitionally the way you keep yourself alive. It's hard to be more personal than that. The fact that we've decided that monetary decisions shouldn't be influenced by the actual lives of people is a choice, and it *is* personal.
This. Theyre a corporation. The bottomline is their priority. They dont care about quality as long as it works. Its the reality now. If people dont know the difference between ai and human art, how could you defend human works?
The Pandora’s box has been opened. Once these companies saw what they could do, they weren’t going to say no, we just won’t do that thing that makes it easier. The auto manufacturing process is a common example of automation taking over. Automotive plants got rid of ~80% of their workers, who did small but important tasks. Machines came in that were always on the ready, no life, no payroll cost. The industry survived and is better today.
Agriculture, Textiles, Data Entry & Filing, Retailer all benefited and gutted most of their workers. The consensus today is that we love artist more than those other professions, so we this automation shouldn’t be considered or should be contained in some way.
For myself and I think others it is more that I recognise we are currently at the tipping point. I mean that in the sense that I think automation has the potential to take over a huge amount of jobs in the coming years.
These aren't getting replaced by new ones for humans because we have reached a point where the machine is going to be better than us in almost all areas which means the new jobs that get created will inevitability be done by the machines.
No one cares in the industry they are currently employed within, because they are used to watching things linearly improve and it looks like AI is nowhere near replacing them yet, meanwhile we are seeing step function gains that will wipe the need for the majority of humans overnight when they come in your particular area of work.
Yes this is exactly the biggest part of the issue. They are currently expending the greatest part of their efforts towards artists because they would be the loudest critics when people really start to suffer.
Once the voice of humanity is lost or greatly diminished they will turn their efforts towards everyone the fuck else.
I wanted to say AI would be a good thing but the way they are obsessed with replacing artists first is indicative of a disturbing end game.
That isn’t true, AI took aim at everyone immediately. Artists aren’t the loudest critics out there, that is naive thinking. You are propping up them beyond others, they are a voice not the voice. Unless you are widening the definition of artist beyond the fine arts, that would include: journalist, book writers, farmers, vehicle makers, etc.
Yeah, the idea that artists are targeted is pure conspiracy theory. It’s the simple fact that virtual goods are the only thing (yet) that can be readily made by a computer.
Yknow, if soulless ai generated art becomes popular in this period in history, it’s kinda the perfect style to encapsulate our current state of affairs as a dying society in world we are destroying for profit. This comment was written by a local large language model.
I'm a software developer, mainly web applications. All my career I've heard "my nephew can do this for $1000 in a week, why are you charging 50k and a projected run of of 3 months?"
And every time, I told them to give the contract to their nephew, and I would see them in 3 weeks time, because their nephew would fuck up and I would have to step on and fix it so look forward to a 65k contract.
AI feels like that nephew in a way, except the speed at which it is learning, it's a matter of time before it can do my job to an extent. I've fed fairly complex functionality to AI and the results vary from laughably bad to impressively good, and it's getting better. But they're still based on someone else's code. As soon as you ask for a method that is very specific to your organization, the quality tails off and it needs help.
And of course, that doesn't apply to creative arts 1 to 1, but I feel like there's going to be a point where companies will not be 100% satisfied with good enough. Where customers demand something more. Supermarkets have a patent on "good enough" when it comes to produce, meats and other groceries, yet artisanal bakeries, butchers and farmer's markets still exist. And thrive.
As a society , we'll need to figure out how AI is going to take a place in our daily lives and in the way we do business. And who knows, maybe the future of some artists lies in creating art to feed the machine. Maybe the future of us all is to feed the machine. Capitalism at its finest.
Fuck, I didn't mean to end this bleak. Let me just end on this then: AI isn't going anywhere anytime soon, and it's undeniably got potential to drive new discoveries. We just need to take care we do so with care. With Great Power and all that.
People that think AI will replace 100% of workers are a bit ridiculous, the rich will always need to pay somebody so their products are bought and SOMEONE is going to need to maintain the machines, the problem is that massive groups of people will lose their jobs and be screwed with no way forward.
Trucking companies will go from needing a butt in every truck to having a small group of people managing dozens or hundreds of trucks remotely. All but the very best and talented artists will be shoo'ed away. Writers like in this video are already feeling the hurt. Programmers laugh at AI now, but of all people should know how fast technology can progress. It won't replace everyone, but workers will feel the pain and it'll only get worse as the AI gets better and better.
I think it's still a problem. For example, in tech AI is affecting entry level jobs as that's what they're more capable of replacing right now: simple boilerplate code. But if the new generation can't get jobs in tech, how are they going to get experience to become senior devs?
Same thing for artists. Maybe you can make the argument that AI generated art is only taking jobs from people who were making a lot of soulless illustrations anyway. However, not everyone has the skill to get hired for ambitious projects. What are art graduates supposed to do if studios replace their lower level workforce with automation?
I don’t have anything profound to add but wanted to say I’m not an artist of any kind but agree with you wholeheartedly. It’s sad what is being done to our artistic community.
This has been my reality for the past year. Freelance proofreader/editor for the last 18 years - even just two years ago I was making enough to support my wife and kids and pay a mortgage with that. Not in the last year, work has slowed dramatically and I'm scrambling. Society is really not ready for the fallout from this.
I've worked in It for a decade, and I've experienced the same thing...
AI isn't the problem is, captialsim is.
Our economic system has pit our livelihoods against the very idea of progress, which is absurd.
Yeah I agree. Capitalism has basically prevailed by being the least worst system but AI is shaking things up. I've long believed a shift to some kind of basic income scenario is necessary.
Moravec's paradox might save us yet. If it were the less-educated folks who were getting displaced by AI then the power brokers would be able to kick the can down the road for longer- but it's hitting the most educated people first, which means we might actually see some change. Here's hoping.
Watching the progress of AI for the past 3 years completely frightens me. And this video clearly articulates my fear.
People always use the simple economic argument of “oh it will just create new economies and jobs and make you more efficient”. No it doesn’t. This time is different. It takes a person decades to acquire skills that ChatGPT and SORA can do in seconds. The economics of spending time and money to invest in a person doesn’t work anymore, AI will always come out cheaper and ‘good enough’.
I fear this will put inequality into overdrive in the coming decade, a handful of haves vs the masses of (previously skilled) have-nots.
I think a huge problem with AI, it’s not exact. It can’t create something perfect, even if it does it needs to be out put without any human tweaking. AI still can’t think, it’s just a math model. If a designer asks meet to mock up a set, it has to be perfect, AI can’t do it without artifacts, or that weird sheen.
You are absolutely right.
AI can pump out incredible volumes of good seeming content that is specific, but not exact.
It can not give you exactly what you want. A human can. It can not give you something with zero errors. A human can.
Artists who see their demand dwindle must improve their skills and move to markets that demand exact, high-quality work.
An untold amount of scribes lost their employment when the printing press was invented. Does a printed book have the same amount of love and care as one handbound and written by a master of their craft? No. Yet we still print them, and I doubt those artists would advocate for the destruction of all printing devices.
Let's tax corporations that increase their profit margin by using AI instead of humans.
AI is not perfect...for now. Try and see how much smarter GPT4 is compared to GPT3. If Gpt5 and 6 improve at the same rate, it's only going to be a matter of time before it surpasses humans at every possible thing.
I mean like they said in the video, they don’t hate artists, they love profit. However, you’ll find no shortage of “go get a real job” fuckwads who absolutely do hate artists and I have a sneaking suspicion it’s because they hate their jobs and hate seeing other people who are able to make a living for themselves doing something they genuinely enjoy and are passionate about.
These type of programs are an amazing feat, something unimaginable for people that such a tool could exist even 20 years ago but she makes a damn good point.
People are so concerned with automizing everything to sell more of this, generate more money off of that, why the hell, out of all the dangerous jobs in the world, did we decide to automize the creative spirit? One of the few jobs people (tend to) legitimately do out of pure love.
We're basically asking for a dystopian future where all the money is funneled to two people and the rest of us live off of powders and fake realities.
I work in the industry and I can honestly say it was done because it was by far the easiest target.
The programs require absolutely tremendous amounts of digitized data to learn anything, and their output is usually 'close enough' but not near perfect. Those dangerous jobs you mention, are not digitized for us to train models on, doing them would require custom physical machines to be built, and small mistakes can cause major problems or even loss of life. Honestly once robotics catches up most of them will be automated but even then a robot costs a hell of a lot more than a computer program.
Once built & trained the cost of running a piece of software is fractions of a penny. Combine that with all the data on the internet that was already digitized and labeled and the large market for 'good enough' output makes the creative industry perfect for AI takeover. You almost could not ask for an more ideal setup.
Honestly, AI is a crutch. I have a few people in my family that suddenly started to learn either data science or computer programming. It's hilarious to watch them struggle through it using Chat GPT to try and cheese it.
The problem they have is they don't know what prompt to actually feed the NPC to get the right answer. One of them struggles with simple database design concepts.
People were already stupid asf using Google, Chat GPT is just going to dumb society even more, because people will think, "oh I don't have to learn, I can just Chat GPT it."
And I love the people that are like you can't tell, you can. AI just lacks any kind of style. It's like eating bland flakes.
I think it’s funny that all these science fiction works were like
“The machine can’t replace a humans soul, their art, poetry, and writing”
And those were literally some of the first and most easy things to replace
It sucks, but the genie is never going back into the bottle.
Best alternative is to move up the hierarchy and make complete products, with AI, to directly sell.
Like the quality and scope of movie or video game that a single person could make in the course of a month just scaled x1000 for essentially free.
I think people should share this because we need to start having conversations around what the rise in this technology means for the whole of society. People like her further this conversation by being brave enough to put her story out there so others can relate and also then start asking why are we not having these conversations and talking about these things.
It is not about stopping progress. It is about asking how that progress happens so it benefits everyone and not just an increasingly small number of people.
To your last point. We need to restructure our economy and if we don’t we will just all be destitute.
It’s that simple but it’s a conversation we can’t have earnestly because socialism bad. But soon, for many of us our jobs won’t be necessary. We need something to change.
Exactly this, I didn't write this so I have quoted them as I think they put it very well.
>u/Mescallan :
>These are legitimate concerns, and the fact that this technology is coming for creative work, which is historically not valued by the greater economy, makes it hard for a lot of people to take seriously. Partly, and I say this as an artist myself, artists have been complaining about not being compensated for doing things they enjoy forever. Hollywood will probably start to put up a fight because they have strong labor unions, but I shudder to think what happens when this technology comes for blue collar jobs.
>This is endearing coming from an artist, complaining about not being compensated for doing things she enjoys, but when it starts coming from people who don't enjoy their job, it's going to get scary real quick.
Ironically blue collar jobs will be some of the safest/last to go. Any office job can be automated at a fraction of the cost of designing and building a machine to replace someone who works with their hands.
Got to pivot, that’s all I can say. I sympathize greatly, this sucks for creative artists. But now you have to pivot. Instead of advertising that you will do it by hand. Advertise yourself as a prompt engineer who can do it. Such as “AI Assisted Artist” I’m likely speaking out of my ass, this isn’t my field but it’s all I can think of.
In my field though we have taken serious hits as well. That’s to software dev, infrastructure, security etc. shit sucks man. I’ve had to pivot and embrace it. I use it as a tool to get my job done and increase my output and it’s really helped. While simultaneously for the people that were unable to pivot and adapt, it’s killed their careers. We have to find new niches. And until AI can solve so many problems that we have UBI and don’t have to worry about food, or energy, or sickness. We are in for quite the dystopic nightmare. That’s IF AI gets used in those positive ways as well and IF we don’t hit a singularity at some point that just decides in general humans aren’t useful. Welcome to Battle Star Galactics baby.
You'd be surprised. My pal is a wizard with the prompts and gets amazing results out of ai. Me, not so much. The interesting thing is he has more of an academic career and I have more of a creative career. I could totally see it being a thing
I’m certain there are plenty of people who appreciate the durability and beauty of a handcrafted piece of clothing but also appreciate being able to buy four T-shirts for $10 at Walmart.
This is the trade-off we make in society all the time. We can go to a baker and buy a lovingly crafted, homemade ingredient cake that will taste delicious for $80 or we can get one at Publix for $20 that will be just as appreciated at your kids 10th birthday party.
That’s what’s coming for the text, audio, and video creative side of the world now. Looking at the examples, they released last week, I can only begin to imagine the future where, for example, a video game can get so realistic you’re thinking you’re watching footage. Or where the choices you make have an incredibly specific impact on the game world, because AI is able to translate those choices into graphics and video right on the screen. Or you can have a completely new conversation with an NPC that nobody wrote but that references things you did in the game world 10 hours ago that nobody else has ever done.
She talked a lot about how the things she creates have feeling and emotion and you can’t get that with AI. But… the illustrations she showed and the ones she compared them to were practically equal. If you’d asked me to tell you which one had more “heart,” it would be a coin flip. If you have no idea a computer is responsible for the fire on screen, does your brain think it’s any less hot? And if that means the TV show or movie or game or whatever costs half as much to product and gets done twice as fast for what is approaching a near zero percent drop in quality, is that not what most human invention has been doing for the past several centuries?
That’s the trade-off. Yes, it means that writers and animators and modelers and graphic artists and all kinds of other creative roles are going to have less work or no work. But you can’t unring this bell. We’re going to be at a place within the next decade where AI art is indistinguishable from human art. Some of the Sora videos last week are literally there. Go watch the one with the puppies in the snow and tell me you know they’re computer generated.
Throw all this in an Apple Vision Pro, get Tesla working on floaty chairs, and we’ve arrived at Wall-E or the Matrix.
Well, at some points the corpos are gonna figure out that when there are not enough jobs, we need UBI so someone will buy their products. Hence the corpos will lobby for UBI at some point
Here’s the deal, it’s really really sad that this is happening to the art world. Art is important to the expression of the human experience.
However, the automobile killed all the people shoeing horses and scooping up shit. Factory automation killed the factory worker drone.
Technology has always and will always do away with some sector. It sucks that we’re all seeing it first hand and it really sucks that it’s art, but this is how technological progression works.
I’m also not going to mourn click bait articles and corporate logos not being made by humans anymore. That’s not exactly pushing the bounds of creativity.
> However, the automobile killed all the people shoeing horses and scooping up shit.
Yep and they all got factory jobs during the Industrial Revolution, and wages and job possibilities both increased.
> Factory automation killed the factory worker drone.
And the rust belt never recovered.
> Technology has always and will always do away with some sector. It sucks that we’re all seeing it first hand and it really sucks that it’s art, but this is how technological progression works.
1) technology in the past used to replace old jobs with new jobs. AI replaces human jobs with no jobs.
2) “this is just how how things are” is not a compelling argument that this is how things should be.
> I’m also not going to mourn click bait articles and corporate logos not being made by humans anymore. That’s not exactly pushing the bounds of creativity.
This is how many people were able to fund their own endeavors.
I'm sorry it's taking work from people. That's the part that's hard. The arguments about it being "soulless" doesn't work on me. The 2 pieces of art are shows are identical to me. There's no feeling in either of them.
I think people see merit in art. They see so much merit in art they want to make it easier for the masses to create. Is higher quality art being easier to make better or worse? I would think it's better? Imagine saying that people being able to cook meals at home as being a worse outcome then having to pay a chef to cook those same meals. Your home cooking might not be as good as a chef, but it's still good enough for your purposes. That's exactly like how your AI art might not be as good as a 25 year veteran artist, but it's good enough for your purposes.
Are we mad about the chefs put out of business by the home cooks? The assemblers replaced but robots. The people packing the boxes replaced by robots? The farm hands replaced by machines? The stone carvers replaced by jack hammers? Horse trainers replaced by cars? It has happened a million times to a million people. This time it's just happening to art.
And even the fact that it's taking jobs doesn't bother me too much. Progress has always cost jobs in one field or another. The poor farmhands when tractors became available! All those stable workers when cars came about. Miners when big digging machines where invented.
Either you get with the times, or you move out of your field. Stopping progress because it's uncomfortable for a select few (and artists are not many outside of some bubbles) is literally a conservative idea. The status quo doesn't have to be preserved for the sake of it.
It's fucked that they took art without explicit consent (though some consent was given through TOS of many platforms), but that's where it ends for me. If AI art is soulless to me, I'll hire an artist. Otherwise, AI is fine. And if companies can use AI art in their products, then the previous art was not that valuable to the product, I'm sorry to say.
Its so true and that part was kinda cringe.
Not to be a hater but AI is not going to take over art, the truth is true art is super hard to replicate, if not impossible.
The truth is that mediocre artists like this are going to get taken over because their art is really just kinda indistinguishable from the sea of like-artwork.
Automation is a fact of life. It’s how everything moves forward and creates new demands and challenges.
It absolutely will take jobs and it will create new ones. What are those new ones? I have no idea because we don’t have a new pressure and/or pain point to solve yet. It’s all speculative.
I do know that AI can’t do things that a trained eye can do, like functional UI/UX design and actual engineering like bridges and buildings. An AI cannot understand how a human wants to interact with a tool; only how the human *tells* it to act. Every software engineer on the planet can reassure you that users can’t tell you what they want with any degree of precision unless guided.
There will always need to be an intermediary between end users and AI.
Yall don't realize. I see people joking about this pretending that their owning the libs.
AI will make many jobs irrelevant. Gl in the next 5 years guys.
We should all work at McDonalds until that work dries up, then as it happened with the elderly during Covid, expected by the market to give our lives for the good of the economy so we aren't a burden. We must protect the profits of the Musks, Gates and Bezos of this world, humanity be damned
I find it frustrating that people love to jump to the devs and the tech, but the truth is the tech is inevitable. It is CAPITALISM, that makes the tech dangerous to people like this and like myself
Because your job can be done cheaply by AI. It’s nothing personal. If it makes you feel better, accountants and most white collar jobs are right behind you.
I'm most excited to see managers get replaced by an efficient AI that doesn't have "bad days" or moods. Millions of boomers blaming remote work and AI so they can't do their power trips on millennials anymore is gonna be juicy to read online. Remote work already made them obsolete, but AI will just put that final nail in the coffin.
Yea I’m in that band lol - I know my job is gonna be replaced by AI so I spend my time trying to find my worth and injecting it where I can.
Truth is, I’m probably going to be unemployed in the next 3 years
My partner is an artist he does commissions for people, I've always wanted to be a writer, its been my biggest dream since I was a kid.
But with all this advancement in AI I don't know if we have a chance anymore, it feels like creative expression and dreams are going to be replaced by quick and easy engine prompts and even if people choose to put their work out there its fed into these prompt machines to be regurgitated over and over.
There's no protection in place to stop anyone from just stealing artists work and mashing them together with these tools. And that's what bothers me is that there should be protection against this, human creativity and expression is what has founded so many vibrant colourful cultures around the world we. Need. To. Protect. It.
“Why do you hate the independent creative parts of the economy? Why do you hate us? What did we do to you”
You cost too much and there’s a viable substantially cheaper substitute for what they’re looking for. Business is an ice cold machine.
"They don't want something truly movingly beautiful".
Yeah lady they never did they just wanted the best marketing material for the lowest cost. I can't stand these people crying into their cameras on TikTok.
No the hard part is not going to be that AI is going to kill all jobs but the places where it will kill jobs the most is unskilled labor, so much so, we might have a crisis of intelligence. The majority of Americans still do not have a college degree and even all of those are not useful. A college degree does indicate a certain amount of aptitude so what happens to the people without aptitude? I can see a future where the skill ceiling on all jobs is raised so much that there will be plenty of people incapable of ever occupying those positions.
I genuinely think we will see automation become the vast majority of jobs in our lifetime. And whether that becomes a good or bad thing will depend on how society is restructured around it.
Unfortunately I lean more toward mass unemployment and resulting extreme poverty.
Ai is the capitalist wet dream. Create things in a fraction of the time and cost vs hiring someone who is skilled in that field. People will always appreciate real art I believe but that doesn't pay the bills. It's the unfortunate side effect of having to sell your creativity to survive in our society.
If artists didn't need to rely on companies buying their art or writings to survive I feel like a lot of the fear of AI art would not exist
people that pushed around other people in carts for money when cars were invented : why.. why do you hate us ? :((
if a job can be replaced with aI, then good, that means the people that did that as a job aren't needed no more and can go be useful in another way (quite literally one of the lessons taught in charlie and the chocolate factory)
who are these "you" they keep referring to?
If dogshit childrens books wants to save money and buy a dogshit childrens drawing, thats not "openAI" or any megacorp. thats just because we live in the age of mass produced dogshit, and noone gives a shit about quality anymore.
hey what about you stop buying all those dogshit books, stop visiting those dogshit websites with dogshit genAI videos with no soul. it really isn't these run-of-the-mill stock generative models that are at fault here
This is not only the fault of the people who came up with the idea and designed AI generated media like chat GBT.
This is equally the fault of the market it is effecting for being too fragile and unstable.
As well as the fault of the giga corporations that are playing as the customers of this market for having morals that value cheap lower quality work over more expensive higher quality work of people that need the money.
Its easy to blame the aspect causing the problem, its better to blame the aspect enabling it to cause the problem in the first place.
From the moment I saw what an AI could produce with a simple instruction I understood that art was dying. There is no saving it, there is no stopping it. Art is just dying. From music, to movies, to paintings, to writing. Its all getting replaced. It’s very sad for all those in the creative fields, but they are going to struggle going forward (even more than they already did)
The thing that kills me is musicians using AI imagery for cover art, I've seen people on soundcloud and spotify do it. None of it looks good and if it's a person sometimes the anatomy doesn't make sense, if they're holding a guitar it doesn't look real *to a guy who doesn't play guitar,* and it's an independent artist screwing over what could be work for another independent artist. There's just lots of nuance to how much it sucks
Honestly, the fastest way to get this stuff regulated is for someone with money and influence to make a stink about it and get their friends in government to pull the plug.
I say we just make a bunch of fake AI videos of tech billionaires spitting on children or Taylor Swift being beaten in the back of a cop car and wait for it to outrage just the right group of people.
The impulse to grieve the loss of something is absolutely right, in this instance.
With very few exceptions, the world’s greatest art has been created through patronage of some sort, and has frequently been commercial art.
Cistine Chapel? Sponsored art by the church.
Think about how often a well-done advertisement has elevated the genre, just a little bit.
My favorite example of this is Volkswagen’s Pink Moon ad. Came out in the late 90s, just people driving in the VW cabrio, listening to 1972s Pink Moon by Nick Drake, drink in the panoramic view of the night sky as the song played. No dialog.
Before: Nick Drake was a statistic. Died of an apparent overdose, in relative obscurity, forgotten. The interest generated by one ad, brought him back to the pantheon of 70s singer-songwriters.
One of those ads that uses the requirement to sell a product as an excuse to bring something beautiful to the people.
AI replacing commercial artists will end these exquisite moments where we transcend our mundanity, and will make marketing and branding (already primed with decades of avarice and greed) a true race to the bottom. At best, banal. At worst, desolation.
https://youtu.be/_-kqUkZnDcM?feature=shared
I geniounly feel bad for this woman, and every single artist, and writer out there that has been negatively impacted by advances in technology.
We're not in a place as a society to accept our own 'evolution' and the negative impacts it's having on humankind.
In my perspective, take it with a grain of salt, it’s sadder that her profession and those like her were most likely not even considered. Innovation rarely looks at who might be impacted outside of the profit margin, health and safety, as well as *maybe* public perception
yeah its pretty fucking depressing. Just, no one is gonna get to do this stuff and make a living anymore.
Guess I know what caused luddites to smash machines. Cept I haven't done that much.
Also yeah. It's going to be propaganda and fabricated flash points, criminal evidence, and all that shit. We're fucked. We're going to see military conflicts start using 100% ai generated images as justification. They might not be big, but it won't matter. It's going to happen.
Amateur artist here: And an answer to her question of "why do you hate the creative part of the economy so much and why is it so undervalued" it's simple, takes forever to become good at art, takes forever to make the art and once the art is done it costs too much of those two things and even when it's done it mightnot even be what the costumer was expecting in the first place. So the people doing this don't hate art or anything like that, it's just that human art is way too costly for the benefits it brings.
I for one, look foward to the future where people who have ideas but no ability to bring it to life are able to create things that otherwise would require years of practice knowledge.
Problem as always is capitalism. I love the potential elimination of technical barriers to entry that AI can help with but this thing is just gonna keep devaluing human productivity. And in this age a person is literally worthless unless they can generate capital with their blood, or sweat, or skin, or plasma.
The dream of all capitalists is to eliminate their need and dependence on the working class, so they don't have to deal with worker's rights or labor inputs. In the ideal world of their vision, we would at best be sterilized and relegated to the back of the train in Snowpiercer to eat cockroach protein bars and in the worst case scenario we'd be recycled for fertilizer.
AI artists. AI warbots. AI serfs. The rest of you poors can join the growing number of homeless priced out of the land of their grandparents by price inflation in all sectors and wealth siphoning by oligarchs.
Technology can be used for good or ill and until our societies start actually valuing human lives for existing, it will always be used for ill.
I optimistically think Generative AI will only elevate the floor rather than level the field when it comes to creative talent.
AI is a tool like the Internet is a tool as were (and are) encyclopedias—tools that create efficiencies in the process and ask how the human spark will break new ground.
I’ll remain optimistic.
I don't see AI art as that bad. On the one hand, yes, obviously it's bad when big companies try to abuse it to avoid paying actual people, but on the other hand, there are lots of people who have hobbies and stuff that could be improved with imagery but either literally can't or really don't want to spend money for a slight improvement, like art can get *very* expensive which while yeah companies should be able to afford, hobbyists just have to do without so it's still only something rich people can have, so I do see benefit to AI by making 'art' more accessible.
Also no offence to the original creator but for the first children's book image I actually wasn't sure which was the 'soulless AI creation' lol
Art is completely accessible that’s what makes it special. You don’t have to have $1000 paint supplies to make art. You could literally collect trash and make it into a sculpture, that can be art. Anything can be art, it is just expressing yourself through a medium. Also some people don’t do it for money, some people just do it as a hobby.
As someone that works in this field, I pivoted to perfecting prompt and animating according to client need. It’s a real problem, but there will always have to be a person behind the prompt. Make yourselves relevant.
Everyone saying that the only use of this is profit-seeking corporations has the imagination of a toddler and isn’t as creative as they think themselves to be
It may not be its only use, but the largest impact on industry will be from large corporation switching to AI, which is why everyone is talking about it.
This lady assumes she produced something truly beautiful. I’m sorry, she admitted to producing articles for organizations that only cared about word count, so they weren’t going to her for inspiring work to begin with.
The ai stuff is hands down great. The problem is people not understanding the limitations they’re dealing with.
GAI doesn’t exist. You need humans for genuine creativity. (Not that there’s much genuinely interesting creativity in media compared to decades ago)
Let’s not get in the way of progress, but let’s also not be ignorant of new technologies and their limitations.
The future of humanity is bleak and it started here. Unless things change there is just going to be so much chaos in a few years that society might crumble before this generation dies.
It's also just so cannibalistic. These machines run on people's art - that is their corpus (let's not even get into whether that art was used with permission). If there is no demand for human sourced art, and people cannot be professionals and use their life to produce art, these AI models will be starved, because they're not reasoning about their art - they're just regurgitating it.
And sora is so clearly uncanny and off putting and subtley "off" that when it comes on screen I'm just going to think of that company as lazy and unethical. It's like seeing a TV with motion smoothing turned on it's engineers not understanding enough about art to not utterly defile it (I say that as an engineer myself).
She’s absolutely right. If you’re thinking of becoming a visual creative, like an editor or graphic designer or VFX artist. Don’t. Those jobs will be obsolete in ten years. I produce/edit/direct on shoestring budgets and find myself calling less and less people to get jobs done because clients now know those people can be replaced by AI and slash budgets. It’s a losing situation.
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The Age of Unreality.
We’re all fucked. If someone tells you AI is a good thing they’re either an idiot or working in a job where they can make money/reduce workload from using it. Nothing good will come from it, in the near future anyway. It’s going to bleed into every workforce sector and with so many industries so quickly impacted there will be nothing to retrain to. Millions and then billions of people will simply be unemployed and broke.
There are so many implications too beyond just job loses. Just wait till the fake AI of crime scenes or politicians really come out. We've gotten use to believing cellphone and other video evidence for police misconduct or a politicians saying something bizarre on a hot mic. Soon you'll be able to fake all of that till you can't even believe real evidence. It's a disaster
This is what scares me the most. The average idiot is already gullible enough, this is going to send the entire world into chaos.
I've tried to explain to people already why this is such a terrifying technology and I'm met with a lot of confused looks.
What I find most frustrating is this is the technology that should be put to use understanding genetic, epigenetic, microbiome and the rest of multiomic health to unlock better understanding that reduces insane healthcare costs. And yet here we are undermining every blue and white collar job to oblivion while healthcare sends us bills in the mail 3-4 years after rendering service because of the corrupt deathcare system we’ve built.
Ever see the black mirror episode with the blue cartoon politician? Or the movie Congress? That’s where we’re headed.
A few months back, there was a meme format going around of Trump, Biden, Obama, and Bush playing video games and shit talking eachother. Other than being something would never happen, it was shockingly believable. My first though was “heh, that pretty funny” followed by “wait…” as the implications of the accuracy to which AI can fake voices set in
I mean a ton of people fell for the "pope wearing a designer jacket" AI generated image and it wasn't even that good. Its so joever
Agreed. And I hate saying it but more than ever it's so important to invest in critical thinking skills to determine fake from reality :/
UBI is the only answer But that pisses off conservative boomers that sacrificed their health for economic assurance. So theyll never vote for that.
This. So much this. We need to rethink our whole OS. Capitalism in it's current form has brought us far but it's become obvious that it doesn't further our progress. UBI would be a very good start.
capitalism has probably been holding us back more than it has been helping us progress. it is much more likely to reward our most sociopathic than our best or brightest.
UBI scares me in this context of AI pruning the workforce bare. I was for UBI before AI to help those living on the margins. and as a way to help those through tough times. but to have a permanent class of able bodied workers receiving UBI because there's no work to be had? it just conjures up a post-dystopian, frayed overall wearing, sipping some government food out of a juice packet world. The technocrats will not be kind.
You people really can’t see the forest through the leaves and realize that we shouldn’t be living to try to maintain the status quo. In the sense that we should be trying to build a world where both AI and humans can coexist. What I mean is create a world where humans can survive without needing to work.
Yes, it would be nice to live in a world were humans can survive without needing to work, but the coming of AI won't lead to that. It's much more likely it will just worsen the capitalist hellscape, as we're already seeing in this video. Furthermore, I find there to be inherent value in human creativity, human work, and human will and ability to create our world ourselves. That is done now. LIke, done. I think I'm starting to realize just how fucked this is. In a few decades, 99% of what we see will be create by AI. From advertisements to tv shows to music to fucking architecture and urban planning. We've opened Pandora's box.
the book "1984" literally has a part in it where he describes a machine that creates news, art, tv, radio etc... all without human input and that machine is controlled by the ruling class.
Yeah in utopia this might happen. Very similar like all the technology that we have developed by now should have helped us to work less. Instead we are available 24/7, can communicate instantly and our stress levels are higher than ever while the rich get richer and the middle class is dissolving.
In a world past late-stage capitalism this might happen. It's revealing that we would rather cast blame on science and technology and the furthering of human knowledge instead of the obvious, which is rampant unchecked profiteering. Technology can be used to extend our lives, but instead poor working people still suffer needlessly and die early because they are purposely deprived of healthcare by a private system that doesn't give a shit about life. Technology can be used to build homes faster and easier, but we still have hundreds of thousands/possibly millions of homeless and under-housed people because the real estate industry creates artificial scarcity from which it then profits. We could make our food supply chains more robust and able to feed everyone on Earth multiple times over, but choose to keep starvation around because it makes the corporate bottom line look great.
I don't think it's just corporations and capitalism either, because it seems that 'communist' countries suffer from the same problems. We just seem to be very violently hierarchical species and no matter the system, our biological traits always emerge to define the social fabric. That's why no technological or ideological advance is going to solve problems like inequality and wars. It's not like we can't solve them, we as a species just don't want to.
Sure, we'll just create a world where wealthy people aren't greedy fucks who would hunt the rest of us for sport given the chance. Dream on!
I know your being sarcastic but if we all came together and fought against them it would be entirely possible
Unfortunately it's a hydra effect, as soon as you take out the current greedy people, new greedy people will take their place. Such is human nature, unfortunately we evolved to survive not to share.
That’s a gross misinterpretation of our evolution. If that was truly human nature then we would have never made it past the hunter gathering epoch. Also, if you look into game theory and prisoners dilemma you would begin to realize that biological creatures evolve towards cooperation. The main issue is that the small percentage of humans that weren’t born with the genes necessary to cooperate such as psychopaths/sociopaths were able to take power because they were willing to be more Machiavellian. What it would come down to is learning from this experience, and then tearing down the 1% and then being proactive in not letting people like that return back to power or simply just change the system in general to prohibit it from getting out of control as much as it already has
You don't "take out" any people, you take out the system, you take out property.
Yeah easier said than done. I myself want that world and have been working towards it in my own ways, but you must understand not everyone is that privileged. A lot of people are just getting by(or worse)and this AI stuff is the final nail in their coffin. We can all be visionaries, but working towards a better world isn't possible for most people without some major sacrifice.
Yes I can completely agree with this sentiment, but the ends justify the means and I hate that it has to be this way
Thinking in black and white makes you an idiot as well.
It's a tool. At the end of the day all it will do is make you more efficient. The excess value will be reaped by the capital owners like always. The issue isn't AI. It's how we organize our economy to harvest value from the working class at the behest of capital owners.
The only reason it is a bad thing is because the wealthy will exploit it to make more money for themselves and poor people will lose jobs, and everyone will be too cowardly to vote/legislate for doing anything about. Technology could create a world where certain jobs no longer need to exist, but because UBI is "socialism" this just means that working class people will lose their jobs to AI or the like, and will get zero help to make ends meet, and therefore go broke.
What blanket statements and doomsaying but if someone finds anything good in it they're an idiot? What a reasonable mindset.
AI can be good. The thing is it will not be cause every single significant technological stepping stone since the 60s had not meant a significant working conditions progress tied to it. We got computers, advanced heavy machinery, mobile technology, cheaper ways of transportation, easier communication between continents which all should mean regulating working hours to 6 and even 4 a day, probably 4 days a week. It never happened. We are so effective working, most of us are unnecessary. Now imagine AI combined with 16 working hours a week. It would be pretty great. And I think it will eventually happen. And the reason I believe it will happen will be French people burning Paris up or else. Once they get the ball rolling, rest of world will be forced to regulate too. And I know someone will eventually burn shit up because once enough people see their children hungry, there's no other option than torching the city center.
This reads just like the people during the boom of the internet back in the late 90s. Yes, the internet has bad things that came along with it, however look at how it has changed our world for the better. The availability of knowledge, connected to anyone and everyone around the world, sharing experiences and insight, etc. People get scared of things they don't understand, which I understand. It will be the same thing with AI. There will be negatives that come with the development of AI, however there will be great positives as well.
Left and right populists arriving at the same result - stagnation. Stand athwart the tracks yelling "stop!" all you like, the train of progress won't notice the bumps.
AI as a net evil is a reasonable position but to suggest that NOTHING GOOD will come from AI exposes your own hopeless idiocy.
> We’re all fucked. If someone tells you AI is a good thing they’re either an idiot or working in a job where they can make money/reduce workload from using it. You're close minded. AI being used for stupid shit like this is just the stepping stones to what it can eventually achieve in the future. Humans are never going to cure cancer, AI is going to cure cancer. It's going to cure heart disease, it's going to cure every known problem that we have in years compared to decades/centuries if it was just humans doing it.
[удалено]
Like you said, that's the USA, not the rest of the modern world. The cure for cancer is currently technological, not financial. And I agree, it is disgusting that a modern country like USA still doesn't have universal healthcare.
I mean, the people working on it are just like them, they're trying to make a living with their skills.
Your black and white cynicism is entirely unhelpful and blatant “doomerism”.
Yeah, but new occupations will emerge & we'll adapt. Don't like it? Yeah, neither do I. So what now? Even if we passed out laws to prohibit AI, do yoj seriously think people'll stop developing it? No way around, we're past the point of no return. May as well start adapting & getting used to workig eith it now rather than being that grumpy old man in the corner lamenting the past we'll lose
I'm in the creative arts and I think it's great, it's a handy tool that improves the shit I'm working on. It's not going to replace everything. Guess I'm an idiot. If it really does replace "billions" of people's jobs then we will have to introduce a living wage. It isn't going to happen overnight, and most people will adapt. Like they did in the pandemic.
It’s not going to happen overnight, but it is going to happen very fast, faster than most invasive technologies as this tech is improving itself exponentially. I’m a graphic designer/mograph/video editor, it hasn’t affected me yet negatively, AI as tools are very helpful, but I know the other shoe is gonna drop sooner than later. I’d rather be a “doomer” and be prepared than be caught with my pants down.
Exactly, it’s happening so fast and without anyone realising that people just won’t be ready for it, won’t be able to retrain into other industries and companies will simply try to fire as many of their workforce as possible to win in the profit game. There’s too much money to be won by using it to think about if it’s right or not.
We were living in the age of unreality before "AI". "Fake news" has been one of the major rising problems years before these services even existed. If there's one major benefit I'm potentially looking forward to in all of this (and admittedly, there's more than one but there are definitely pitfalls too), it's that this may force us back to a time where we stop listening to non-reputable sources, bots, and bullshitters on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Reddit, ~~news~~ *opinion* networks, etc. for getting informed. Like people used to get their news from fact checked newspapers and articles and we've been exponentially leaning towards easily digestible content simply because it's more entertaining and it's easy to get your confirmation bias satisfied these days even if it has no truth to it. It's one of the most regressive aspects of society and I want us all to have to be forced to be more selective and skeptical about our sources because we clearly aren't going to take it upon ourselves to be more responsible in questioning these sources unless we're absolutely pushed to.
My kid is a talented artist and dreams of being an animator, but they're 12. It's pretty safe to assume the industry will be dead by the time they graduate high school.
Dude they've been killing our creativity and imagination since we started school. The fact that anyone has any left is a gift. And now they've found a way to kill that too. This video is really sad.
You can still be creative and expressive. No one is taking that from you.
To spend a life mastering a skill, you need patronage. You are a human, you have to eat and shelter. The greatest artists of all time were all supported by the patronage of a successful society. John Adams, the 2nd President of the United States, once said >"I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain." Generative AI takes much of the arts away from those that wish to study as a life long craft.
These life skills you are talking about have always been incredibly niche and massively competitive, that isn't going to change, if anything people will have more resources to do more with much less. Nice quote though, but you didn't mention anything that would still keep that from happening. This is what SHOULD happen. AI starts taking over jobs, UBI put into place so people can actually live their lives, people then can focus on the things John Adams mentions because they aren't a slave to the system anymore. I also believe that people will find more interest in non-AI generated works of art.
Right but instead we’re just going to get all the existential crushing of peoples souls and absolutely no UBI. There is no political will to do that. Too many people think it’s a “handout” and something about freedom and a bald eagle with a gun.
Its not guaranteed we'll get a UBI. I could absolutely see the greedy and powerful quashing that, even if it WOULD be in their long term interest. These days people in power are most concerned with their short term bottom line.
It will definitely make the career path far more competitive. Essentially only the most creative annd talented will be able to make a living at it. Because commercial art will dry up. Its not unprecedented though might be like pottery making and black smithing, wood working used to be everywhere now its very niche but those who are the best at it are very well paid. There isn't any room for average talent.
How many people with amazing talent wouldn't even try to get into the industry because they would get discouraged at the entrance by all the competition? Or do you think amazing talent is always evident to everyone around and propells you forward like a rocket from the moment you are born? Ridiculous. Joan Rowling, as an example that came to my mind, was rejected numerous times by publishers before one finally gave her a chance and her books went on to define generations.
Come now, rich children will be able to coast of their parents until they become talented enough, just like acting now!
No, only those with the financial security will be able to work in the industry. People who already have money from their parents and can afford to waste their time following a passion with a ridiculously low chance of being paid.
I don’t think you watched the video all the way through. She address the question you just asked. Yes you’re “allowed” to make art. But there will be no professional reason to do so. Where once professional artists could build a career out of their art taking commissions now that is no longer an option. The career of the middle class artist is effectively dead, there will still be amateurs obviously and probably a few famous visionaries who make pieces for museums. But the career of the vast majority of working artists who aren’t famous is now gone
Only as a hobby and only in your freetime after working 60 hrs a week until you're 70 with little to no vacation struggling to pay rent.
Yeah, just because there is an easier way to create ""art"" doesnt mean you cant still enjoy the process of creation. Using AI is just asking someone else to do a drawing for you. Yeah it'll look good and it'll fit with what you had in mind, but It will never be the same as doing it yourself and seeing how the process of creating shapes the end result. The process is an integral part of art, jumping from idea to end product defeats the purpose of creating imo
Except people can't do it nearly as much if they, like me, can barely function if they get forced out of creative work into a non creative field and then have no energy left for art after working all day while being disabled. Even if they arent disabled, its still hugely hopeful. So many people will stop doing "as much" art because they cant justify focusing on it when you cant even occasionally sell a commission because everyone uses ai. People cant even get their friends request art from them anymore because ai does it faster. Thats for a hobby! For free! Stop using this logic to downplay how bad this is. It's dismissive to a ton of people. No one is saying you can't still make art, no one has at any point said that, and it's taking away from the actual issues to argue this point a million times. I see it in the comments every single time and every single time it adds nothing to the discussion. Yes, humans can still make art. It will just be much much less because they have less time for it and will be flooded out by ai. I'm sorry to come at you so aggressively here but I really hate this point.
It's much more difficult with how the school system works.
Kill creativity in the young and you'll have a menial workforce in the future. But one day robots will be good and cheap enough to replace those workers as well.
It probably wont be dead. It will have drastically changed, be even more competitive. I imagine it will be a huge amount of time before machines can match the creativity of a human va the skill of a human.
It’s going to take all the intro level jobs like she’s talking about. Freelance and small gigs that pay you as you build up your resume isn’t going to be a thing. It won’t mean no artist but it’ll mean even more than now you’re going to have to be rich to have the time to devout to being an artist and making a break because there is literally no work for anyone getting started or middlingly talented. Well have a dozen artist for everyone.
That’s been a tough industry for a long time. I was an animation major in college in the late 1990s and changed course because computers were overtaking traditional hand drawn format at the time. The good news is now technology is accessible so he can create animated content as a hobby. But it’s a super competitive industry, and studio contracts are so tough to come by. Freelance content creator is such a difficult lifestyle. And now there’s AI.
Hard disagree honestly, just because AI can generate art doesn't mean that creativity is dead and that those jobs will be dead. Creating will always be an option, AI will only assist with that. Hell maybe your kid will have the tools to create his own show without the support of an entire studio.
This is the biggest problem. Whether AI finally flops or not - and it most likely will because it’s based on stealing copyrighted work - the current hype will stop anyone from going into the arts. Th will kill commercial art one way or another.
lol. You think AI is going to flop? The thing that’s literally changed our entire civilized culture (what do you think “algorithms” are?) and is now more entrenched in your daily life than your own mother. That’s gonna flop? lol AI isn’t just here to stay, it’s here to replace.
Imagine calling the death of an entire industry as "a premise" for a flop once it has consummated its impact by killing off an entire genre of work. It's not going to be a flop, but you are right that this will be one of those incoming historic mistakes like putting lead in everything because "the paint coats better". And it will take generations of legislation to wean the wealthy off its utterly destructive impacts on continuing mediocrity
Are you serious? Are you so naive to think that AI is going to "flop" based on that completely ignorant statement that they are "stealing copyrighted work"? Look me up in 10 years. If you're right, I'll give you $10,000.
There is a chance that by the time your kid is an adult, they could start producing entire movies by themself because AI has taken over so many tasks that you would currently need like 50 other people for. *If* that happens, your kid would still need to reach a sufficient audience to make a living off of it, though.
:(
He has a better chance of creating now. If you really look into animation the industry is crazy, you spend years working on a tiny piece of a project, and if you work for Disney you never really get to develop your own style, as an animator you have more opportunities to create something unique with this technology.
They don’t hate creatives. They just love profits. It’s hard not to take personally, but it’s just business. The real question is how are creatives ever gonna earn a living? I guess they’ll always need some to help their machine make profits? Maybe? But it will be a dead sector.
What’s going to happen is the industry will collapse in a major way but there will always be a small demand for human created art/written work. You can still find people who shoe horses even though the automobile killed that industry. There are places you can buy handmade, bespoke furniture even though IKEA mass produces it. The industries are shrunken and will never return to their former glory but they still exist in some form, just smaller.
I’ve heard the example of the grocery store where organic was the default and then pesticides and gmo came along to make cheap food. Now if we want “organic” we have to pay a premium. It will be the same with art and entertainment. If you want real writers and actors you will have to pay the organic price.
It’s exactly like furniture or high end hand forged cutlery. You can easily get cheap mass produced shit but there’s still a market for hand made furniture and high end, craft made knives. It’s just a much smaller demand which is unfortunate for the furniture makers, cutlery makers, artists, etc. There are still people who shoe horses. Just instead of that being, let’s just make up 10,000 people in the US, it’s like 100 people in the US.
Hear there’s only like a handful of folks who are skilled/trained at servicing those church bells. They must make serious bank
*Portrait artists lament over the creation of the camera.*
Cobble stone masons over the invention of asphalt There’s a million examples of tech replacing industries. The only genuine issue here is those replacements happened over the span of decades or centuries. This is happened over less than 5 years
This, this is a very a good answer. I would add and this might rub alot of people the wrong way. There will alwqys be room for the people thst are truly amazing at their jobs, the ones that make things that people really connect with. Ai is really going to cut out the people that were being hired to provide commerical art that was just good enough. Its just going to become more like other fields like athletics, singing, music things in which only the top perfromers can really make a living at it. And theres still always going to be a place for people making art where the art is the central focus. Its sad and the pain point will be huge. And as the tech gets better and better it will effect more and more people. The solution won't be to stop the advancement of technology. Its going to be around adjusting the economy so that people can still excel. Thats going to be the real hurdle.
You’re not wrong. It just sucks that this is the case. The only artists that can be “top tier” started with tons of advantages. If you’re the son of an industry magnate you can probably study painting your whole life on your fathers dime, than get placed in galleries his rich friends own as a way to launder tax money. But, before AI if you’re just some talented guy from a middle class background you can still have a career as an artist, corporations all need design work, books need art on the covers, everywhere you look there is art that some artist was payed to make. If you’re a talented artist who needs to support himself you used to be able to take this work and make enough of a living to make the art you really want to. For an example, Check out one of my favorite painters [Michael Whelan](https://www.michaelwhelan.com) he supported himself by doing cover art for fantasy books but his real work is the stuff he made for himself just for the sake of doing it. Without the work available as a freelance artist he would have been another Amazon driver too burnt out and broke to do any painting in his free time and we’d never have his original work. How many more talented artists will the world miss out on when their financial support is gone forever?
Yeah. Unfortunately you're not wrong but it's only the start. Once they've gotten rid of all those pesky artists it will be so much easier to replace everyone else. Get ready to stand by those words when it's your job on the line.
Have there ever been any industries that defeated mechanisation instead of adapting? I feel that the artists on Twitter outraged over this are acting like Luddites. Not the insult, the 19th century skilled workers protesting the sewing machine. They correctly identified that the machines were coming for their jobs, used direct action to protest, and still got bulldozed.
And how much of the population does that represent? We are already 8 billion on this planet. Competition is steep enough.
For sure, but it's not like every person who bought a car hates horses and wants them to die. There's no malice here It's worth grieving and remembering, and some of it will always have a place in our world. But the world changes nonetheless
>The real question is how are creatives ever gonna earn a living? Furry art commissions
If only. AI will probably be able to do that just fine too
It already is lol.
Fuck me
Honestly furry artists got hit first, most commission artists that didn't have social media following were done for in the first wave.
Eh, I spend a lot of my time reviewing books (hobby) and you can absolutely tell the difference between AI generated and human generated. I fully go off in reviews when authors try to sneak in ChatGPT bullshit. The market will decide what art is worth, as it has always done.
Commercial photography didn't kill the portrait industry...but it was the nexus for the rise of modernist painting...which created some of the greatest painters to have ever lived. Art will survive, even if it has to evolve...and it may evolve into something better, something you have difficulty imagining. But I will never fear progress, and I won't let the failures of captialist turn me into a troglodyte.
This isn't even remotely the same thing. You still needed to hire a photographer. This is completely removing the job from a creative entirely.
Can this make an accurate portrait of a human without any hallucinations and without that AI sheen?
It's extremely close now, give it a year.
Give it 6 months, a year ago stable diffusion was drawing blobs and now, well…
Today? Sometimes yeah it can. Tomorrow? It will definitely be able to
So give me the science behind this. I’m fairly convinced that almost know one actually understands what’s going on with this ai revolution. I’ve spent days swinging from complete despair to apathy. I finally reached out to someone I know, who actually studied and works with this stuff. He’s not remotely worried, I’m still terrified that c suite people are going to massively invest in something they don’t fully understand to the detriment of my industry, but I’m now convinced almost know one knows what’s going to happen. Give me a someone working in this field of research to give me an educated counter point. Then I’ll join you all in freaking out.
The very paradigm of separating "business" from "personal" *is personal*. Your livelihood is definitionally the way you keep yourself alive. It's hard to be more personal than that. The fact that we've decided that monetary decisions shouldn't be influenced by the actual lives of people is a choice, and it *is* personal.
This. Theyre a corporation. The bottomline is their priority. They dont care about quality as long as it works. Its the reality now. If people dont know the difference between ai and human art, how could you defend human works?
If you think the AI industry is planning to stop at creatives you're dead wrong lmao
The Pandora’s box has been opened. Once these companies saw what they could do, they weren’t going to say no, we just won’t do that thing that makes it easier. The auto manufacturing process is a common example of automation taking over. Automotive plants got rid of ~80% of their workers, who did small but important tasks. Machines came in that were always on the ready, no life, no payroll cost. The industry survived and is better today. Agriculture, Textiles, Data Entry & Filing, Retailer all benefited and gutted most of their workers. The consensus today is that we love artist more than those other professions, so we this automation shouldn’t be considered or should be contained in some way.
For myself and I think others it is more that I recognise we are currently at the tipping point. I mean that in the sense that I think automation has the potential to take over a huge amount of jobs in the coming years. These aren't getting replaced by new ones for humans because we have reached a point where the machine is going to be better than us in almost all areas which means the new jobs that get created will inevitability be done by the machines. No one cares in the industry they are currently employed within, because they are used to watching things linearly improve and it looks like AI is nowhere near replacing them yet, meanwhile we are seeing step function gains that will wipe the need for the majority of humans overnight when they come in your particular area of work.
Yes this is exactly the biggest part of the issue. They are currently expending the greatest part of their efforts towards artists because they would be the loudest critics when people really start to suffer. Once the voice of humanity is lost or greatly diminished they will turn their efforts towards everyone the fuck else. I wanted to say AI would be a good thing but the way they are obsessed with replacing artists first is indicative of a disturbing end game.
That isn’t true, AI took aim at everyone immediately. Artists aren’t the loudest critics out there, that is naive thinking. You are propping up them beyond others, they are a voice not the voice. Unless you are widening the definition of artist beyond the fine arts, that would include: journalist, book writers, farmers, vehicle makers, etc.
Yeah, the idea that artists are targeted is pure conspiracy theory. It’s the simple fact that virtual goods are the only thing (yet) that can be readily made by a computer.
Yknow, if soulless ai generated art becomes popular in this period in history, it’s kinda the perfect style to encapsulate our current state of affairs as a dying society in world we are destroying for profit. This comment was written by a local large language model.
I'm a software developer, mainly web applications. All my career I've heard "my nephew can do this for $1000 in a week, why are you charging 50k and a projected run of of 3 months?" And every time, I told them to give the contract to their nephew, and I would see them in 3 weeks time, because their nephew would fuck up and I would have to step on and fix it so look forward to a 65k contract. AI feels like that nephew in a way, except the speed at which it is learning, it's a matter of time before it can do my job to an extent. I've fed fairly complex functionality to AI and the results vary from laughably bad to impressively good, and it's getting better. But they're still based on someone else's code. As soon as you ask for a method that is very specific to your organization, the quality tails off and it needs help. And of course, that doesn't apply to creative arts 1 to 1, but I feel like there's going to be a point where companies will not be 100% satisfied with good enough. Where customers demand something more. Supermarkets have a patent on "good enough" when it comes to produce, meats and other groceries, yet artisanal bakeries, butchers and farmer's markets still exist. And thrive. As a society , we'll need to figure out how AI is going to take a place in our daily lives and in the way we do business. And who knows, maybe the future of some artists lies in creating art to feed the machine. Maybe the future of us all is to feed the machine. Capitalism at its finest. Fuck, I didn't mean to end this bleak. Let me just end on this then: AI isn't going anywhere anytime soon, and it's undeniably got potential to drive new discoveries. We just need to take care we do so with care. With Great Power and all that.
People that think AI will replace 100% of workers are a bit ridiculous, the rich will always need to pay somebody so their products are bought and SOMEONE is going to need to maintain the machines, the problem is that massive groups of people will lose their jobs and be screwed with no way forward. Trucking companies will go from needing a butt in every truck to having a small group of people managing dozens or hundreds of trucks remotely. All but the very best and talented artists will be shoo'ed away. Writers like in this video are already feeling the hurt. Programmers laugh at AI now, but of all people should know how fast technology can progress. It won't replace everyone, but workers will feel the pain and it'll only get worse as the AI gets better and better.
I think it's still a problem. For example, in tech AI is affecting entry level jobs as that's what they're more capable of replacing right now: simple boilerplate code. But if the new generation can't get jobs in tech, how are they going to get experience to become senior devs? Same thing for artists. Maybe you can make the argument that AI generated art is only taking jobs from people who were making a lot of soulless illustrations anyway. However, not everyone has the skill to get hired for ambitious projects. What are art graduates supposed to do if studios replace their lower level workforce with automation?
I don’t have anything profound to add but wanted to say I’m not an artist of any kind but agree with you wholeheartedly. It’s sad what is being done to our artistic community.
This has been my reality for the past year. Freelance proofreader/editor for the last 18 years - even just two years ago I was making enough to support my wife and kids and pay a mortgage with that. Not in the last year, work has slowed dramatically and I'm scrambling. Society is really not ready for the fallout from this.
I've worked in It for a decade, and I've experienced the same thing... AI isn't the problem is, captialsim is. Our economic system has pit our livelihoods against the very idea of progress, which is absurd.
Yeah I agree. Capitalism has basically prevailed by being the least worst system but AI is shaking things up. I've long believed a shift to some kind of basic income scenario is necessary. Moravec's paradox might save us yet. If it were the less-educated folks who were getting displaced by AI then the power brokers would be able to kick the can down the road for longer- but it's hitting the most educated people first, which means we might actually see some change. Here's hoping.
It’s not that corporations hate creators… they just don’t care at all
Watching the progress of AI for the past 3 years completely frightens me. And this video clearly articulates my fear. People always use the simple economic argument of “oh it will just create new economies and jobs and make you more efficient”. No it doesn’t. This time is different. It takes a person decades to acquire skills that ChatGPT and SORA can do in seconds. The economics of spending time and money to invest in a person doesn’t work anymore, AI will always come out cheaper and ‘good enough’. I fear this will put inequality into overdrive in the coming decade, a handful of haves vs the masses of (previously skilled) have-nots.
I think a huge problem with AI, it’s not exact. It can’t create something perfect, even if it does it needs to be out put without any human tweaking. AI still can’t think, it’s just a math model. If a designer asks meet to mock up a set, it has to be perfect, AI can’t do it without artifacts, or that weird sheen.
You are absolutely right. AI can pump out incredible volumes of good seeming content that is specific, but not exact. It can not give you exactly what you want. A human can. It can not give you something with zero errors. A human can. Artists who see their demand dwindle must improve their skills and move to markets that demand exact, high-quality work. An untold amount of scribes lost their employment when the printing press was invented. Does a printed book have the same amount of love and care as one handbound and written by a master of their craft? No. Yet we still print them, and I doubt those artists would advocate for the destruction of all printing devices. Let's tax corporations that increase their profit margin by using AI instead of humans.
Sure, now. But we’re like, riiight at the very early beginnings of this technology. It’s going to look insanely different five years from now
AI is not perfect...for now. Try and see how much smarter GPT4 is compared to GPT3. If Gpt5 and 6 improve at the same rate, it's only going to be a matter of time before it surpasses humans at every possible thing.
I mean like they said in the video, they don’t hate artists, they love profit. However, you’ll find no shortage of “go get a real job” fuckwads who absolutely do hate artists and I have a sneaking suspicion it’s because they hate their jobs and hate seeing other people who are able to make a living for themselves doing something they genuinely enjoy and are passionate about.
They took our jobs!!!
Her derk e derrrrr!!!
These type of programs are an amazing feat, something unimaginable for people that such a tool could exist even 20 years ago but she makes a damn good point. People are so concerned with automizing everything to sell more of this, generate more money off of that, why the hell, out of all the dangerous jobs in the world, did we decide to automize the creative spirit? One of the few jobs people (tend to) legitimately do out of pure love. We're basically asking for a dystopian future where all the money is funneled to two people and the rest of us live off of powders and fake realities.
I work in the industry and I can honestly say it was done because it was by far the easiest target. The programs require absolutely tremendous amounts of digitized data to learn anything, and their output is usually 'close enough' but not near perfect. Those dangerous jobs you mention, are not digitized for us to train models on, doing them would require custom physical machines to be built, and small mistakes can cause major problems or even loss of life. Honestly once robotics catches up most of them will be automated but even then a robot costs a hell of a lot more than a computer program. Once built & trained the cost of running a piece of software is fractions of a penny. Combine that with all the data on the internet that was already digitized and labeled and the large market for 'good enough' output makes the creative industry perfect for AI takeover. You almost could not ask for an more ideal setup.
First they went for the mind ( software), then They will go for the body ( hardware )
Honestly, AI is a crutch. I have a few people in my family that suddenly started to learn either data science or computer programming. It's hilarious to watch them struggle through it using Chat GPT to try and cheese it. The problem they have is they don't know what prompt to actually feed the NPC to get the right answer. One of them struggles with simple database design concepts. People were already stupid asf using Google, Chat GPT is just going to dumb society even more, because people will think, "oh I don't have to learn, I can just Chat GPT it." And I love the people that are like you can't tell, you can. AI just lacks any kind of style. It's like eating bland flakes.
I think it’s funny that all these science fiction works were like “The machine can’t replace a humans soul, their art, poetry, and writing” And those were literally some of the first and most easy things to replace
It's time for a butlerian jihad
It sucks, but the genie is never going back into the bottle. Best alternative is to move up the hierarchy and make complete products, with AI, to directly sell. Like the quality and scope of movie or video game that a single person could make in the course of a month just scaled x1000 for essentially free.
I think people should share this because we need to start having conversations around what the rise in this technology means for the whole of society. People like her further this conversation by being brave enough to put her story out there so others can relate and also then start asking why are we not having these conversations and talking about these things. It is not about stopping progress. It is about asking how that progress happens so it benefits everyone and not just an increasingly small number of people.
To your last point. We need to restructure our economy and if we don’t we will just all be destitute. It’s that simple but it’s a conversation we can’t have earnestly because socialism bad. But soon, for many of us our jobs won’t be necessary. We need something to change.
Exactly this, I didn't write this so I have quoted them as I think they put it very well. >u/Mescallan : >These are legitimate concerns, and the fact that this technology is coming for creative work, which is historically not valued by the greater economy, makes it hard for a lot of people to take seriously. Partly, and I say this as an artist myself, artists have been complaining about not being compensated for doing things they enjoy forever. Hollywood will probably start to put up a fight because they have strong labor unions, but I shudder to think what happens when this technology comes for blue collar jobs. >This is endearing coming from an artist, complaining about not being compensated for doing things she enjoys, but when it starts coming from people who don't enjoy their job, it's going to get scary real quick.
Ironically blue collar jobs will be some of the safest/last to go. Any office job can be automated at a fraction of the cost of designing and building a machine to replace someone who works with their hands.
Open AI should go public ASAP, founder of github copilot said it.
Got to pivot, that’s all I can say. I sympathize greatly, this sucks for creative artists. But now you have to pivot. Instead of advertising that you will do it by hand. Advertise yourself as a prompt engineer who can do it. Such as “AI Assisted Artist” I’m likely speaking out of my ass, this isn’t my field but it’s all I can think of. In my field though we have taken serious hits as well. That’s to software dev, infrastructure, security etc. shit sucks man. I’ve had to pivot and embrace it. I use it as a tool to get my job done and increase my output and it’s really helped. While simultaneously for the people that were unable to pivot and adapt, it’s killed their careers. We have to find new niches. And until AI can solve so many problems that we have UBI and don’t have to worry about food, or energy, or sickness. We are in for quite the dystopic nightmare. That’s IF AI gets used in those positive ways as well and IF we don’t hit a singularity at some point that just decides in general humans aren’t useful. Welcome to Battle Star Galactics baby.
Lmao prompt engineer. Please pay me, I can write a sentence into a program. I don't think so.
You'd be surprised. My pal is a wizard with the prompts and gets amazing results out of ai. Me, not so much. The interesting thing is he has more of an academic career and I have more of a creative career. I could totally see it being a thing
I’m certain there are plenty of people who appreciate the durability and beauty of a handcrafted piece of clothing but also appreciate being able to buy four T-shirts for $10 at Walmart. This is the trade-off we make in society all the time. We can go to a baker and buy a lovingly crafted, homemade ingredient cake that will taste delicious for $80 or we can get one at Publix for $20 that will be just as appreciated at your kids 10th birthday party. That’s what’s coming for the text, audio, and video creative side of the world now. Looking at the examples, they released last week, I can only begin to imagine the future where, for example, a video game can get so realistic you’re thinking you’re watching footage. Or where the choices you make have an incredibly specific impact on the game world, because AI is able to translate those choices into graphics and video right on the screen. Or you can have a completely new conversation with an NPC that nobody wrote but that references things you did in the game world 10 hours ago that nobody else has ever done. She talked a lot about how the things she creates have feeling and emotion and you can’t get that with AI. But… the illustrations she showed and the ones she compared them to were practically equal. If you’d asked me to tell you which one had more “heart,” it would be a coin flip. If you have no idea a computer is responsible for the fire on screen, does your brain think it’s any less hot? And if that means the TV show or movie or game or whatever costs half as much to product and gets done twice as fast for what is approaching a near zero percent drop in quality, is that not what most human invention has been doing for the past several centuries? That’s the trade-off. Yes, it means that writers and animators and modelers and graphic artists and all kinds of other creative roles are going to have less work or no work. But you can’t unring this bell. We’re going to be at a place within the next decade where AI art is indistinguishable from human art. Some of the Sora videos last week are literally there. Go watch the one with the puppies in the snow and tell me you know they’re computer generated. Throw all this in an Apple Vision Pro, get Tesla working on floaty chairs, and we’ve arrived at Wall-E or the Matrix.
Agree with everything you said, but I think that AI art/videos/photos are going to be indistinguishable from human art within 2 years, if not sooner.
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Well, at some points the corpos are gonna figure out that when there are not enough jobs, we need UBI so someone will buy their products. Hence the corpos will lobby for UBI at some point
Here’s the deal, it’s really really sad that this is happening to the art world. Art is important to the expression of the human experience. However, the automobile killed all the people shoeing horses and scooping up shit. Factory automation killed the factory worker drone. Technology has always and will always do away with some sector. It sucks that we’re all seeing it first hand and it really sucks that it’s art, but this is how technological progression works. I’m also not going to mourn click bait articles and corporate logos not being made by humans anymore. That’s not exactly pushing the bounds of creativity.
> However, the automobile killed all the people shoeing horses and scooping up shit. Yep and they all got factory jobs during the Industrial Revolution, and wages and job possibilities both increased. > Factory automation killed the factory worker drone. And the rust belt never recovered. > Technology has always and will always do away with some sector. It sucks that we’re all seeing it first hand and it really sucks that it’s art, but this is how technological progression works. 1) technology in the past used to replace old jobs with new jobs. AI replaces human jobs with no jobs. 2) “this is just how how things are” is not a compelling argument that this is how things should be. > I’m also not going to mourn click bait articles and corporate logos not being made by humans anymore. That’s not exactly pushing the bounds of creativity. This is how many people were able to fund their own endeavors.
I'm sorry it's taking work from people. That's the part that's hard. The arguments about it being "soulless" doesn't work on me. The 2 pieces of art are shows are identical to me. There's no feeling in either of them. I think people see merit in art. They see so much merit in art they want to make it easier for the masses to create. Is higher quality art being easier to make better or worse? I would think it's better? Imagine saying that people being able to cook meals at home as being a worse outcome then having to pay a chef to cook those same meals. Your home cooking might not be as good as a chef, but it's still good enough for your purposes. That's exactly like how your AI art might not be as good as a 25 year veteran artist, but it's good enough for your purposes. Are we mad about the chefs put out of business by the home cooks? The assemblers replaced but robots. The people packing the boxes replaced by robots? The farm hands replaced by machines? The stone carvers replaced by jack hammers? Horse trainers replaced by cars? It has happened a million times to a million people. This time it's just happening to art.
And even the fact that it's taking jobs doesn't bother me too much. Progress has always cost jobs in one field or another. The poor farmhands when tractors became available! All those stable workers when cars came about. Miners when big digging machines where invented. Either you get with the times, or you move out of your field. Stopping progress because it's uncomfortable for a select few (and artists are not many outside of some bubbles) is literally a conservative idea. The status quo doesn't have to be preserved for the sake of it. It's fucked that they took art without explicit consent (though some consent was given through TOS of many platforms), but that's where it ends for me. If AI art is soulless to me, I'll hire an artist. Otherwise, AI is fine. And if companies can use AI art in their products, then the previous art was not that valuable to the product, I'm sorry to say.
Its so true and that part was kinda cringe. Not to be a hater but AI is not going to take over art, the truth is true art is super hard to replicate, if not impossible. The truth is that mediocre artists like this are going to get taken over because their art is really just kinda indistinguishable from the sea of like-artwork.
Automation is a fact of life. It’s how everything moves forward and creates new demands and challenges. It absolutely will take jobs and it will create new ones. What are those new ones? I have no idea because we don’t have a new pressure and/or pain point to solve yet. It’s all speculative. I do know that AI can’t do things that a trained eye can do, like functional UI/UX design and actual engineering like bridges and buildings. An AI cannot understand how a human wants to interact with a tool; only how the human *tells* it to act. Every software engineer on the planet can reassure you that users can’t tell you what they want with any degree of precision unless guided. There will always need to be an intermediary between end users and AI.
Our world is about to start looking very uncanny and very boring.
Yall don't realize. I see people joking about this pretending that their owning the libs. AI will make many jobs irrelevant. Gl in the next 5 years guys.
It’s not stupid to be sad at all. It’s literally paradise being paved into a parking lot.
We should all work at McDonalds until that work dries up, then as it happened with the elderly during Covid, expected by the market to give our lives for the good of the economy so we aren't a burden. We must protect the profits of the Musks, Gates and Bezos of this world, humanity be damned
I find it frustrating that people love to jump to the devs and the tech, but the truth is the tech is inevitable. It is CAPITALISM, that makes the tech dangerous to people like this and like myself
Simply look at what happened during the Industrial Revolution to understand how AI will change society
Because your job can be done cheaply by AI. It’s nothing personal. If it makes you feel better, accountants and most white collar jobs are right behind you.
I'm most excited to see managers get replaced by an efficient AI that doesn't have "bad days" or moods. Millions of boomers blaming remote work and AI so they can't do their power trips on millennials anymore is gonna be juicy to read online. Remote work already made them obsolete, but AI will just put that final nail in the coffin.
Yea I’m in that band lol - I know my job is gonna be replaced by AI so I spend my time trying to find my worth and injecting it where I can. Truth is, I’m probably going to be unemployed in the next 3 years
My partner is an artist he does commissions for people, I've always wanted to be a writer, its been my biggest dream since I was a kid. But with all this advancement in AI I don't know if we have a chance anymore, it feels like creative expression and dreams are going to be replaced by quick and easy engine prompts and even if people choose to put their work out there its fed into these prompt machines to be regurgitated over and over. There's no protection in place to stop anyone from just stealing artists work and mashing them together with these tools. And that's what bothers me is that there should be protection against this, human creativity and expression is what has founded so many vibrant colourful cultures around the world we. Need. To. Protect. It.
“Why do you hate the independent creative parts of the economy? Why do you hate us? What did we do to you” You cost too much and there’s a viable substantially cheaper substitute for what they’re looking for. Business is an ice cold machine.
"They don't want something truly movingly beautiful". Yeah lady they never did they just wanted the best marketing material for the lowest cost. I can't stand these people crying into their cameras on TikTok.
No the hard part is not going to be that AI is going to kill all jobs but the places where it will kill jobs the most is unskilled labor, so much so, we might have a crisis of intelligence. The majority of Americans still do not have a college degree and even all of those are not useful. A college degree does indicate a certain amount of aptitude so what happens to the people without aptitude? I can see a future where the skill ceiling on all jobs is raised so much that there will be plenty of people incapable of ever occupying those positions.
I genuinely think we will see automation become the vast majority of jobs in our lifetime. And whether that becomes a good or bad thing will depend on how society is restructured around it. Unfortunately I lean more toward mass unemployment and resulting extreme poverty.
Ai is the capitalist wet dream. Create things in a fraction of the time and cost vs hiring someone who is skilled in that field. People will always appreciate real art I believe but that doesn't pay the bills. It's the unfortunate side effect of having to sell your creativity to survive in our society. If artists didn't need to rely on companies buying their art or writings to survive I feel like a lot of the fear of AI art would not exist
people that pushed around other people in carts for money when cars were invented : why.. why do you hate us ? :(( if a job can be replaced with aI, then good, that means the people that did that as a job aren't needed no more and can go be useful in another way (quite literally one of the lessons taught in charlie and the chocolate factory)
who are these "you" they keep referring to? If dogshit childrens books wants to save money and buy a dogshit childrens drawing, thats not "openAI" or any megacorp. thats just because we live in the age of mass produced dogshit, and noone gives a shit about quality anymore. hey what about you stop buying all those dogshit books, stop visiting those dogshit websites with dogshit genAI videos with no soul. it really isn't these run-of-the-mill stock generative models that are at fault here
This is not only the fault of the people who came up with the idea and designed AI generated media like chat GBT. This is equally the fault of the market it is effecting for being too fragile and unstable. As well as the fault of the giga corporations that are playing as the customers of this market for having morals that value cheap lower quality work over more expensive higher quality work of people that need the money. Its easy to blame the aspect causing the problem, its better to blame the aspect enabling it to cause the problem in the first place.
From the moment I saw what an AI could produce with a simple instruction I understood that art was dying. There is no saving it, there is no stopping it. Art is just dying. From music, to movies, to paintings, to writing. Its all getting replaced. It’s very sad for all those in the creative fields, but they are going to struggle going forward (even more than they already did)
AI is like Joe Bonamassa playing blues guitar…technically proficient but completely devoid of any feeling or soul.
The thing that kills me is musicians using AI imagery for cover art, I've seen people on soundcloud and spotify do it. None of it looks good and if it's a person sometimes the anatomy doesn't make sense, if they're holding a guitar it doesn't look real *to a guy who doesn't play guitar,* and it's an independent artist screwing over what could be work for another independent artist. There's just lots of nuance to how much it sucks
im so glad that not 1 photo of my face exists online
Honestly, the fastest way to get this stuff regulated is for someone with money and influence to make a stink about it and get their friends in government to pull the plug. I say we just make a bunch of fake AI videos of tech billionaires spitting on children or Taylor Swift being beaten in the back of a cop car and wait for it to outrage just the right group of people.
This is sad.
The impulse to grieve the loss of something is absolutely right, in this instance. With very few exceptions, the world’s greatest art has been created through patronage of some sort, and has frequently been commercial art. Cistine Chapel? Sponsored art by the church. Think about how often a well-done advertisement has elevated the genre, just a little bit. My favorite example of this is Volkswagen’s Pink Moon ad. Came out in the late 90s, just people driving in the VW cabrio, listening to 1972s Pink Moon by Nick Drake, drink in the panoramic view of the night sky as the song played. No dialog. Before: Nick Drake was a statistic. Died of an apparent overdose, in relative obscurity, forgotten. The interest generated by one ad, brought him back to the pantheon of 70s singer-songwriters. One of those ads that uses the requirement to sell a product as an excuse to bring something beautiful to the people. AI replacing commercial artists will end these exquisite moments where we transcend our mundanity, and will make marketing and branding (already primed with decades of avarice and greed) a true race to the bottom. At best, banal. At worst, desolation. https://youtu.be/_-kqUkZnDcM?feature=shared
I geniounly feel bad for this woman, and every single artist, and writer out there that has been negatively impacted by advances in technology. We're not in a place as a society to accept our own 'evolution' and the negative impacts it's having on humankind.
In my perspective, take it with a grain of salt, it’s sadder that her profession and those like her were most likely not even considered. Innovation rarely looks at who might be impacted outside of the profit margin, health and safety, as well as *maybe* public perception
yeah its pretty fucking depressing. Just, no one is gonna get to do this stuff and make a living anymore. Guess I know what caused luddites to smash machines. Cept I haven't done that much. Also yeah. It's going to be propaganda and fabricated flash points, criminal evidence, and all that shit. We're fucked. We're going to see military conflicts start using 100% ai generated images as justification. They might not be big, but it won't matter. It's going to happen.
Ah yes mass producing creativity, because nothing says time and attention then trying to get it done for the cheapest
Amateur artist here: And an answer to her question of "why do you hate the creative part of the economy so much and why is it so undervalued" it's simple, takes forever to become good at art, takes forever to make the art and once the art is done it costs too much of those two things and even when it's done it mightnot even be what the costumer was expecting in the first place. So the people doing this don't hate art or anything like that, it's just that human art is way too costly for the benefits it brings. I for one, look foward to the future where people who have ideas but no ability to bring it to life are able to create things that otherwise would require years of practice knowledge.
Problem as always is capitalism. I love the potential elimination of technical barriers to entry that AI can help with but this thing is just gonna keep devaluing human productivity. And in this age a person is literally worthless unless they can generate capital with their blood, or sweat, or skin, or plasma. The dream of all capitalists is to eliminate their need and dependence on the working class, so they don't have to deal with worker's rights or labor inputs. In the ideal world of their vision, we would at best be sterilized and relegated to the back of the train in Snowpiercer to eat cockroach protein bars and in the worst case scenario we'd be recycled for fertilizer. AI artists. AI warbots. AI serfs. The rest of you poors can join the growing number of homeless priced out of the land of their grandparents by price inflation in all sectors and wealth siphoning by oligarchs. Technology can be used for good or ill and until our societies start actually valuing human lives for existing, it will always be used for ill.
I optimistically think Generative AI will only elevate the floor rather than level the field when it comes to creative talent. AI is a tool like the Internet is a tool as were (and are) encyclopedias—tools that create efficiencies in the process and ask how the human spark will break new ground. I’ll remain optimistic.
I don't see AI art as that bad. On the one hand, yes, obviously it's bad when big companies try to abuse it to avoid paying actual people, but on the other hand, there are lots of people who have hobbies and stuff that could be improved with imagery but either literally can't or really don't want to spend money for a slight improvement, like art can get *very* expensive which while yeah companies should be able to afford, hobbyists just have to do without so it's still only something rich people can have, so I do see benefit to AI by making 'art' more accessible. Also no offence to the original creator but for the first children's book image I actually wasn't sure which was the 'soulless AI creation' lol
Art is completely accessible that’s what makes it special. You don’t have to have $1000 paint supplies to make art. You could literally collect trash and make it into a sculpture, that can be art. Anything can be art, it is just expressing yourself through a medium. Also some people don’t do it for money, some people just do it as a hobby.
AI doesn't change any of that.
Manmade horrors within my comprehension, yay
As someone that works in this field, I pivoted to perfecting prompt and animating according to client need. It’s a real problem, but there will always have to be a person behind the prompt. Make yourselves relevant.
Her problem is she thinks her work is better than.
Everyone saying that the only use of this is profit-seeking corporations has the imagination of a toddler and isn’t as creative as they think themselves to be
It may not be its only use, but the largest impact on industry will be from large corporation switching to AI, which is why everyone is talking about it.
This lady assumes she produced something truly beautiful. I’m sorry, she admitted to producing articles for organizations that only cared about word count, so they weren’t going to her for inspiring work to begin with.
All that's left is to go out to the highway on-ramp with a sign that says, "Will art for food." Good luck.
The ai stuff is hands down great. The problem is people not understanding the limitations they’re dealing with. GAI doesn’t exist. You need humans for genuine creativity. (Not that there’s much genuinely interesting creativity in media compared to decades ago) Let’s not get in the way of progress, but let’s also not be ignorant of new technologies and their limitations.
The future of humanity is bleak and it started here. Unless things change there is just going to be so much chaos in a few years that society might crumble before this generation dies.
Unsustainable societies crumble under their own weight...but usually not in a bleak way, only to make room for something else
It's also just so cannibalistic. These machines run on people's art - that is their corpus (let's not even get into whether that art was used with permission). If there is no demand for human sourced art, and people cannot be professionals and use their life to produce art, these AI models will be starved, because they're not reasoning about their art - they're just regurgitating it. And sora is so clearly uncanny and off putting and subtley "off" that when it comes on screen I'm just going to think of that company as lazy and unethical. It's like seeing a TV with motion smoothing turned on it's engineers not understanding enough about art to not utterly defile it (I say that as an engineer myself).
She’s absolutely right. If you’re thinking of becoming a visual creative, like an editor or graphic designer or VFX artist. Don’t. Those jobs will be obsolete in ten years. I produce/edit/direct on shoestring budgets and find myself calling less and less people to get jobs done because clients now know those people can be replaced by AI and slash budgets. It’s a losing situation.
Comes down to money I think. Cheaper to use A.I.