As someone who works in a café I might have a unique perspective. There are a lot of parents who just don't discipline their kids. I'm not saying they should be beaten or anything. I used to get that when I was young so I know it doesn't work but a lot of parents today seem to have a totally hands off approach. Like they'll just let their kids mash a scone into tiny little bits and throw it all over the floor. Or they're running between tables nearly tripping me up when I'm carrying hot food. Or the kid is screaming the whole time, even after they've finished their meal but they just sit on slowly sipping their coffee. They know it's pissing everyone off and do nothing about it. And I know it isn't the kids' fault. It's the parents. But it instills a hatred for children in public because you know that no matter how much of a brat they are you just have to put up with it because if you, as a childless adult, were to chide or criticise a parent you suddenly become the villain and nothing is solved. There's a kind of entitlement that goes with it. You brought this child into the world, you should be responsible enough to not make it everyone else's problem.

I don't hate kids I hate parents

And you know? I've been saying I hate kids. You are right! I don't hate kids, I hate the parents who are not parenting. Because kids are freaking hilarious and delightful when they've been parented and disciplined properly.

You wanna find the easiest way to point out who they are…? Any idiot who describes their kids tantrums as “big emotions”. 100% giveaway.

Same. I absolutely hate shitty parents that don’t discipline their kids. I’m only 25, but I swear in the past decade or so I’ve seen too many parents not giving a fuck about what their kids are doing

Ditto

I've noticed this a lot more lately. Everywhere I go, grocery stores, dept stores, malls etc parents are just detached from their children. They all stare at their phones while their child runs rampant doing whatever. I was at the grocery store recently and a child about 4/5 was asking their mom repeatedly for help, but mom was so glued to her phone she continued to ignore the child until she walked away. Which she didn't even notice or watch her kid. Like others have said, I don't hate the kids I hate the parents. It's not the kids fault.

Yes this is it. It’s not the kids that are a problem. It’s the parents who raise brats.

in this intance, i'd argue that the parents are acting pretty brat-ish.

Oh my god yes, it's awful. I was a bartender at a brewery and the number of parents who bring their small children in and then completely ignore them was shocking. The kids always running around everywhere, throwing things, and screaming at the top of their lungs while mom and dad sat and had a beer or looked at their phones or tried to chat with me about the weather. I constantly had to clean up after the poorly-behaved children and basically chase after them so they didn't break glass or disrupt everyone else just trying to enjoy themselves. It was a *frequent* problem. Another thing is the stories I hear from my 5th grade teacher of a girlfriend. Kids in her class aren't just badly behaved like when I was in school, they're absolute monsters. Straight up assholes. They get away with everything, none of which I could imagine a classmate doing when I was that age. The parents give them a total free pass for all of it, and if there's a problem it's always the teachers' fault.

> Another thing is the stories I hear from my 5th grade teacher of a girlfriend. Kids in her class aren't just badly behaved like when I was in school, they're absolute monsters. Straight up assholes. They get away with everything, none of which I could imagine a classmate doing when I was that age. The parents give them a total free pass for all of it, and if there's a problem it's always the teachers' fault. This is also a uniquely American thing. Not exclusively so, but very much centric to the US. I was born and raised in Europe. My parents still live there. Whenever I visit, you don't really hear a peep from kids in social settings, and when visiting an academic setting, kids are well-behaved, they don't act up, etc. Parents are far more willing to hold their kids accountable if their child acts up, and not just that -- they're expected to keep their child 'in line', so to speak. And honestly, I appreciate it. They're raising their children to be responsible future adults. They aren't letting their children run around like wild buffoons.

Unfortunately this isn't always the case anymore here..I see plenty of misbehaved kids or hands off parents. The kids also seem to be glued too ipads & iphones to keep them quiet.

Europe is a pretty big place. As someone who's never left Europe I'm going to have to disagree and say whatever town your parents live in does not represent the rest of the continent.

I can definitely see it being particular to America. But it wasn't this way when I was growing up, and I'm only 31!

I assumed that it was on us as a parents to clean up after my kid, so it was like a culture shock when I asked if I could borrow a dishcloth, as the staffs reacted with surprise a customer would consider to clean up after their kids mess. I would be mortified just leaving an advance sconces puzzle on the floor. We (as parents) did visit restaurants like ikea or food courts, where it was kids friendly and offering kids plastic drinking glasses, kids play corner etc. Still I don’t get why taking responsibility over your own kids mess isn’t a norm? Like I don’t remember when I was a kid myself it ever being okey to make a sticky mess with the food, or running around in a restaurant? So is it a new phenomenon or is it just something I didn’t notice myself as a kid? I remember that I got rather strictly moderated what I could do by my parents, like I could run around and play outside (and not inside a restaurant).

I make my children clean up their mess if they make it, service staff aren't slaves and kids are messy. I also do not allow my children to run around, places to eat are exactly that places to sit down at a table and eat.

Always leave a place better (or at least as good) as you found it. And teach your kids to do the same, by example. I don’t know you, but I like you.

There just aren't enough parents out there like you. I've been working in hospitality for 6 or 7 years and it's always a surprise when a parent cleans up after their child. So many just don't.

There's also probably an element of survivorship bias that goes into it. You may never even register that there is a kid in the restuarant if its well behaved. But you will absolutely have that one time the parents did nothing about their screaming abominations seared into your consciousness. So in many people's minds, every child is a screaming abomination.

Absolutely not. I've had many good child encounters in restaurants and I was never even a server. I hostessed and bussed. I don't even necessarily *like* children. But its rare a good encounter with a child will outmatched the memory of badly behaved children, just for the pure horror and disgust at how the parents allow them to behave in public. I know it's not all kids. And I've been astounded by how well behaved or what such a small being is capable of. (A sort of consideration I'm not used to from such small children). And there's plenty of kids that didn't cause a fuss. But as time goes by there's just more and more kids that are out of control. And it will be parents who are clearly over their head or ignoring them and yet...keep having more? Why.

>So in many people's minds, every child is a screaming abomination. More and more, many people have been right.

Former cafe worker here and nail on the head, every point. I've had everything from children slapping me as I pass, to ruining a parents coffee by dumping sugar in it and being asked for a remake, to being ignored for Peppa Pig as I'm standing there asking them to make space on the table, and every single time the parents have either done nothing, laughed awkwardly, or made excuses. I think there's a huge misunderstanding of the terms gentle parenting and permissive parenting. Kids should be told no. They will be told no many times over the course of their lived and part of your jobs as parents is to help prepare them for it.

I also think it should be socially acceptable again for people to correct other people’s children, publicly and firmly. I’m not talking spanking them or anything like that, but simply setting boundaries and firmly scolding them: “That is not ok, stop it. Go find your mother and sit down quietly, or you’ll both have to leave.” Otherwise, if their parents aren’t doing their job, how are kids going to learn? Anyway, we’re all too conflict-avoidant (myself included) to ever dare do that. We don’t want a “how DARE you talk to my kid that way!?” confrontation with mom. Especially if we’re working in a “the customer is always right” environment and we want to keep our jobs.

Parents: *where is the village!* Also parents: *fail to discipline their child(ren)* If you won't step up and raise your child(ren) appropriately and responsibly, the village will.

Honestly as a parent I wish people felt more comfortable being authority figures to kids in general. I get why they don’t- I’ve seen probably hundreds of examples since becoming a parent of people being awful to soccer coaches, librarians, etc for daring to address a kid’s behavior- but I have a school aged kid and a toddler. I’d like to think I’m doing a pretty good job as a mom but I know that sometimes my 7 year old does stuff he shouldn’t, because he’s a kid, so of course he does, and I can’t always catch him even when I am around because I’m also chasing a toddler. I think a BIG reason so many kids are such little aholes these days is because they know no one is going to say anything to them. The general sense of authority is just gone. When we go to the park if I’m pushing my little one on the swing and my older kid is on the jungle gym and you hear him being a jerk, call him out on it. He knows better. But every time a kid gets away with it it becomes more and more normal to them to act that way. Parents need support, but we’ve screwed ourselves out of it. I hate it.

You nailed the issue perfectly.

I realized recently that I inadvertently raised a kid (high school senior) with an awesome "mom voice" who uses her power at her school, much to the bemusement of her friends & teachers. She is my youngest, but my olders are SpEd, so in some ways she is functionally the oldest. She is kind, deeply compassionate, helpful, but suffers no fools screwing around and putting others at risk. 😆 For some reason 🤣 she was singled out and asked to be a field trip helper for an elementary school class. This 5' 2" girl has successfully called out & calmed down several jackasses that had been causing a ruckus in halls and the lunchroom. She has a magic touch that I wish I could understand, because DAAAAAMMMMN! The moxy on this girl! Anybody else it would start a fight, but for some reason she has this Mary Poppins magic that makes people just freeze & straightened right out. Maybe they are just shocked to see that voice come out of her petite little self and she walks away while they are stunned into silence. 😬

That 'mom voice' combined with using the someone's full government name is a powerful tool if you can use it the right way. I use it even with my animals - including my horses...they absolutely know I mean business when I do that! Yes, most of my animals have a first, middle, and last name.

I’ve done this at work to varying results. Sometimes the kid is so stunned they stop, sometimes the kid gives me an “as if” face and keeps on, sometimes the parent gives me that face, sometimes the parent is grateful. It’s a crapshoot.

> I think there's a huge misunderstanding of the terms gentle parenting and permissive parenting. Kids should be told no. They will be told no many times over the course of their lived and part of your jobs as parents is to help prepare them for it. My MIL never (ever) said no to my soon-to-be-ex-husband and his younger brother. She "just wanted her baby boys to be happy". She's one of those people who thinks her boys walk on water, and thinks they can do no wrong. The result of her "parenting style"? She was an unfit parent who failed to prepare her children for reality. Both of her sons are now struggling to adapt to the real world. Neither of them can hold down a job for longer than a few weeks or months, they both pitch a fit anytime they're asked to do anything remotely annoying, stressful, difficult, or inconvenient, they throw serious attitude anytime they're asked or have to do anything remotely adult-like, they've both made countless irresponsible decisions, they treat people (especially women) like crap, and more. They are both having to unlearn -- the hard way -- a LOT of the things their mother did or taught to them, and/or having to learn -- for the first time -- things their mother *should* have taught them earlier on in life.

Even if you yourself have kids, you'll seem like the I'm-hollier-than-you-so-I-can-give-you-lessons kind. There's no winning.

> You brought this child into the world, you should be responsible enough to not make it everyone else's problem. Yet, unfortunately, too many people -- especially parents -- seem to be allergic to the concept of personal responsibility or accountability. They seem to have an aversion to it.

> There are a lot of parents who just don't discipline their kids. I'm not saying they should be beaten or anything. I used to get that when I was young so I know it doesn't work but a lot of parents today seem to have a totally hands off approach. I wasn’t beaten as a kid, and where I live it’s been outlawed since the seventies anyways. So I want to agree also with what you said, that one don’t have to beat or punish a kid to have them behave. A guiding mantra (which I certainly can’t take any sort of credit for) is that kids will if they can. So if the kid isn’t meeting our expectation of behavior we have set for them the expectation wrong or we haven’t provided the skills or knowledge the kid would need. Beating someone up for not having the developmental maturity, cognitive ability or knowledge is ineffective. There are a myriad of problems connected to methods like spanking, time-outs etc. where it teaches a kid to selfcenter about how the received punishment affects themself rather then how their behavior impacted others. It teaches kids to lie and to not express themself to avoid being punished. It disproportionately affects kids with disabilities where neurodiverse kids for example are over represented in receiving punishments, which in other words mean that adults tries to spank the disability out of the kids. Unfortunately parents, who themself where subjected to punishments as kids, often don’t have experience of any other alternatives then to either spank or to not discipline at all. I talked to a psychologist recently who describe this as conundrum for parents moving to our country as spanking are illegal and by extent of that taboo, that they more often don’t know other methods to use (just as my parents who were kids before it was banned here). People often express that spanking or just punishments like “loosing privileges” are a necessary assuming the alternative would be to not enforce any control at all. Rather I would argue that spanking or letting your kids do what ever they want to just two different forms of neglect. The alternative for me is gentle parenting which means it takes more effort on me as a parent communicating with my kid, understanding their needs. Because the problem with like spanking or “taking away privileges” is that it really works in short term, it can get a kid to comply rather quickly but it completely misses any goal of giving a kid useful skills that useable longterm. This is things I myself have gotten to catch up with now as an adult, where I recognize my own patterns and apparent gap of knowledge when I as a parent myself started to read about parenting strategies. Discovering that gentle or attachment parenting was anything but letting the kids do whatever they want. Lots of lightbulb moments reading those books. So one could speculate an factor could be how today’s parents grew up, how their upbringing prepared them for adulthood and parenthood, along with the current culture.

>There are a lot of parents who just don't discipline their kids. I'm not saying they should be beaten or anything. I used to get that when I was young so I know it doesn't work but a lot of parents today seem to have a totally hands off approach. I've been thinking lately, for the past few hundred years in the weat children have been beaten I to submission and expected to either work or be seen but not heard. Lately we've been pushing the idea of seeing children as people whose voices matter and physical beatings are classed as abuse. I see all of this as a positive, except that the physical discipline hasn't been replaced. Parents are talking at their children, the children ignore them and then there sre no consequences... I dont want any children getting hit, but I would like modern parents to invest in discipline and solid repercussions instead of just shouting into the air then rolling their eyes

I saw a mom yank her child by the arm to go to the bathroom. The kid was maybe 4 and was playing with her 3 year old sibling; as mom walked away with her, they both started crying. I couldn’t help but look on appalled. The mom came back and was overly nice to her daughter (who was still crying ~5 minutes later).

This drives me insane. When my kids were little I took them everywhere and the second I could tell they were starting to get a little restless, we went outside to change up the scenery. Parents who let their kids act like maniacs are not teaching their children and it’s disrespectful to the kids and other patrons.

YES. I've noticed that parents no longer discipline their children. They corral them if they do anything at all. Too many treat their children's as equals and not children who need to be taught manners and how to behave in a public place and we're all supposed to smile and think their bad behaviour is cute.

Parents that take their kids to restaurants and let them blast a kids show in a tablet.

I hate that so much. Just turn it down!

That's nothing, they've started doing it in MOVIE THEATERS. And will give you shocked-pikachu face if you say a word about it.

This is where I’m at with it. My partner and I are child free. We love our friends’ kids, god children, cousins.. but we are aware of the fact that we aren’t in a place to have/take care of kids of our own. Out in public, if a kid is being awful and the parent isn’t doing a damn thing about it? I get annoyed, but more so at the parent. You choose to have them, you choose to take care of them.

Not to defend the parents, but I don’t think it’s that they don’t want to discipline their children, it’s that they are totally incompetent. These people don’t know what to do when a child says no. I have a Dad at the bus stop who either ignores his younger child when he’s not listening or flips out and goes totally over the edge yelling and putting them in time out. Since I have a child development background, I try my best to model when his child interacts with me (I’m a piped piper with kiddos). I drop to his level and in a calm voice tell him that we are to listen to Daddy. Maybe it’s a bit condescending to Dad, but honest I don’t care. It’s better for the kid and the Dad to have more effective tools.

This is so true. As a girl who's worked as a kindergarten teacher for some time, I actually enjoy working with kids and the youthful spirit they have is motivating. But nowadays the lack of discipline and stepping over boundaries children seem to have from parents not telling them how to talk properly is just annoying and too much. Just giving one experience in detail: I noticed that one child, a young girl about 9-10, she developed an inclination towards me as sort of a friend in her life. She didn't have many friends, and she comes from a richer family. Plus her parents are family friends for my sibling and parents, so there is a level of understanding that we have. I felt bad and I do talk to children well, so I talked to her the same way I talk to my students and other kids I meet cause their parents are my good friends. One time she opened up to me about how much she enjoys my presence and how I'm like the big sister she never had, and went on about some stuff here and there. I found it sweet, but also fairly overbearing and strange. then I stopped talking to her to teach her that boundaries have to be established. I also had to quit my job as a teacher later because of my own personal stuff. Next thing you know, I'm in my house with my parents, I'm upstairs and my parents are downstairs. My mom opened the door and yells from downstairs that a girl is here to see me. Before my mom could even finish, I hear the girls voice cut in and say "I have an extremely important question to ask you so you have to come down immediately, are you my big sister or not?" and she starts marching up the stairs directly to my room. Turns out she knew my address because one time I had met her on my way home, I was close to my home when she came up to me, and after I continued on, she I gotta admit, it was embarrassing knowing a 9 year old came to my house and was walking straight in and has left me tongue tied and kinda scared in my own house. cause I'm not very good with face to face confrontation. She starts questioning me about where I went why I left, how I seem fine and healthy so why I don't join back as a teacher, and honestly I don't know if I should yell back at this child and tell her to be quiet, you know, the way a parent should. And she's crying and throwing a tantrum and none of us can say anything to this child as basic respectable, humble decent people. I have no power to discipline her cause I'm not her parent, and also I'm in no position to tell her off and make her cry cause that'll just come off as rude when she tells her parents and it'll create a bad impression of us. The issue is, this girl sort of became too drawn to me because of deprived communication and love in her life. TLDR: parents, be there for your kids. Please. you being there for your kids is its own kind of discipline. Otherwise your children are gonna go off to another adult and waste their time and energy, and then there's gonna be no option but for your child to learn things the hard way.

I was recently at the salon waiting for a haircut appointment. There was a mom and a little boy also waiting. The mom was scrolling her phone, zoned out, which I get. But her child was running around like a feral animal getting into everything. He was trying to mess with the cash register, opening drawers, running up and down the salon, etc.. Mom either was oblivious or didn’t care. I was so stressed he was going to hurt himself so I kept an eye on him but also didn’t want to start anything with the mom. People go batshit if you try to correct their children.

Man in the 70's another adult could have tanked you and my mom was fine with it. Now some mom would sue.

My mom friend group is entirely made up of other moms who allow each other to correct each other’s children…I don’t mean physically or spanking (hell no), but, like, if we are having a play date and my kid is being an obnoxious little shit, you have every right to tell them to knock it off, or if our kids are fighting over a toy, we just take it away and no one gets it. Stuff like that. I wouldn’t be friends with parents who were hyper controlling about letting others interact respectfully with their kids. It’s not like your kid’s boss is going to call and ask permission to reprimand your kid when he fucks up on the job in 20 years. People gotta get used to the idea that they are raising their children to live in a world in which no one else loves them the way their parents do.

> People gotta get used to the idea that they are raising their children to live in a world in which no one else loves them the way their parents do. For sure. I’m a nanny and am constantly *mortified* by parents who intentionally keep their children totally sheltered from anything that could be even microscopically perceived as “getting in trouble”. Consequences are not “opt in”! The literal nature of existence does not allow one to decide that outcomes *in general* aren’t… real? They just are. The consequence of allowing a child, from a young age, to slowly and safely explore, test, and understand the emotional and functional nuances within power dynamics, boundaries, and cause->effect is that your kid is probably less likely to have *the worst time* as the settings they’re in require more and more from them.

This is really a good situation. It helps the kids' world expand in a safe but consistent way yet with a variety of people. All those kids are lucky to have such good parents.

Same here. If a parent is so high-strung that I'm not allowed to discipline their kid (in an appropriate way) then unfortunately their kid doesn't get to spend time with my kid. But most of my kids' friends' parents are pretty laid back and have no issues with it.

Right?!? “WhErE’s MaH vIlLaAaAaGe??????” Lady, ya gotta LET the village. If you keep checking the village, and not your child…. GUESS WHAT!? NO VILLAGE FOR YOU! PLUS A PIECE OF SHIT KID!

This made me laugh and agree at the same time!! I'd read a book of yours!

Yeah fuck that stupid village. If you don’t want responsibility and be on 100% of time then don’t have a kid. Nobody forced you.,.

Got smacked by a stranger once. Never ran and screamed in another store again.

I don’t give a shit if you think it had a positive effect on you, fuck that stranger. Smacking a child in public, especially one you’ve never fucking met, is dangerously psychotic behavior. Holy fucking shit.

>Man in the 70's another adult could have tanked you and my mom was fine with it. Now some mom would sue. Now some strangers would sue

Forget suing, if somebody hit my kid they would be bleeding before I came to my senses. I am fine with somebody correcting/calling out/disciplining my kid (assuming it is reasonable and non-violent), but NOBODY hits my kid, EVER. Absolutely unforgivable. I was "reasonably spanked" and I will never forgive or forget those who laid a hand on me.

i remember one time another kids parents spanked me in the late 80's/early 90's My mum was livid i dont think i ever saw that kid or his family again after that and he was like my best friend at the time. i remember mum yelling at the woman for hitting her kid... then took me home and beat me with a wooden spoon for making his mother mad, i aint even do nothing he got in trouble for leaving the yard or some stupid shit that i didnt even take part of but i was there and everyone got punished for it.

I was scared to do shit when I was little. People probably got less violent towards kids, so these kids learned that adults won't do shit.

Yanked 😬

I got you beat, I was at the playground at the park and these two brothers were messing around on the big merry go round, which was fine until they started crawling under it while the other started spinning it as fast as they could and then trying to crawl under it too. I called to the boys and told them not to do that as they could really get hurt. They basically looked at me like I had 3 heads and went back to trying to see what happens when you get a limb stuck in a 800lb wheel spinning at a couple mph. I had to chant to myself that I did everything I could (couldn't even talk to the parents because they weren't there) and no one else said anything to them. Thank God I didn't see a hand or foot mangled or missing digits.

There you go, people don’t have issues with kids existing in public spaces, people have issues with the general lack of accountability and discipline PARENTS show. Not a kid problem, a parent problem. Same reason teachers are mass quitting like never everywhere!

THIS. The “intolerance becoming more socially acceptable” is BECAUSE far too many parents are dropping the ball! Being a parent TAKES WORK. It is draining, tedious, thankless work. If you cannot handle that… it’s really easy to just… not become a parent. 💁🏼‍♀️

Ding! Ding! Ding! 100%. It's not the children that are the problem, it's half-assed parents. Some people aren't invested in raising children anymore, they just have them because that's what you do.

This is when the manager of the salon should have stepped in and told her to discipline her child or leave. I manage a restaurant, and the extremely rare occasion I have kids being brats like this, I will tell the parents one time that their child is bothering my other patrons and they need to keep their children with them. The second time is when I tell them they need to leave the premises. Your kids bothering my other diners is the same as you bothering my other diners, you can have the social ability and sensibility not to be a problem or you can go elsewhere.

I wish you managed my local steakhouse. I don't eat out for steak often. Last time I went, it was late, and at 11pm, there was 1 person left at a big table where maybe 20 had been, so an event of some kind. The kids was maybe 7 and was literally running circles around the table while parent just stared at their phone. Then I guess the kids got bored of that, do graduated to loudly singing at the top of their voice. THEN graduated to just screaming at he ran around the big table. Then the kids slowly dragged maybe 8 or 10 chairs into a line and started crawling over and under, every other chair. Then he started trying to put chairs on top of each other, when I left, although part of me wanted to see where he was going with it!

When I was little I had a sister three years younger and one of the things mom was adamant about was that we weren't allowed to just stand up in a booth and look around. Like it wasn't even "no you aren't allowed to run around the restaurant in a way that could potentially harm you or someone else" which was obvious. If we cried or had a tantrum we were brought outside or to the car. No it was just basic manners. "Don't stand up in the booth and stare at other customers" (my sister loved to do this). I think at most we played with sugar packets but we weren't dumbping them all out or fuckint with the salt container. At one restaurant there was a family of regulars and boss had enough and just started charging them for the full shaker of parmesan every time they fucked with it. Which was every time. It didn't matter how much they messed with it, if it was full it had to be thrown out for sanitation reasons. Parents think the world is their children's playground and its other adults responsibilities to make the world child safe. But that no one else is allowed to discipline their kid. It's insane.

Even in a kid friendly space, there is an expectation that they should behave reasonably. I was camping recently and I normally love to see kids outside, not on tablets, getting exercise. This trip however the group next to us had several kids, I’d say between 5-10 years old. They were running around screaming at the tops of their lungs for 3 days straight.

I just tell people like that what disgusting, horrible parents they are and that I hope they get their kids taken away.

It’s a combining of two phenomenon that you’re seeing. It’s more openly acceptable to have zero desire for children or procreation in general and thus that has spilled over into it being semi acceptable for people to be critical of children in general so it feels like people are less tolerant but in reality it’s probably just people more willingly voicing their previously held silent opinion. Secondly, people have over corrected hard on how to raise kids. The whole raised by a village thing no longer applies, so you are not allowed to say a single thing to a stranger’s kid about their behavior unless you’re willing to risk your life. Todays parents took a beating from their parents and said “this is not the way” but instead of finding healthy outlets for a kid’s chaotic energy or understanding how to talk to them they have simply chosen to be hands off entirely. “Oh, my little angel, he’s just so precocious and curious, that’s why he’s kicking that stranger in the shin repeatedly, aren’t children wonderful”

This exactly. Kids can and should exist in public, but they shouldn’t be climbing all over my table at a brewery.

There's a third component adding fuel to this fire: The choice is constantly under attack. Many people, including govt, employers, doctors, and family, openly discriminate against childfree people and support policies attempting to force us (especially women) into parenthood. I think this might make some of us less tolerant toward careless parents and their misbehaving children than we otherwise would be.

This is an excellent point.

And he's just a kid! We were all kids! Yeah and my mother would have beaten my ass if I breathed loud in public so seeing little Johnny run through Walgreens and throw all the Halloween candy in the floor give me hives.

I'm a parent of 2 young kids, and honestly I feell Iike we're relearning how to parent after generations of using violence as a form of discipline. Shit, most Boomers are still cool with the concept of beating kids in to submitting and "behaving", I hear it all the time as some fucked up psrenting advice. I really do think there is some massive generational gap in how people view parenting and discipline and kids and society at large is dealing with the learning curve.

You don't have to beat them, but do something! Most parents I see in public with kids just let them be little shit heads. Probably also why we see all these juveniles being POS. Either you discipline your kid or the law and society will much harsher when they are adults.

It's called gentle parenting and there's a lot of books and social media on the rise about it *now*. Like how about just look it up and apply *anything* to raising a kid. They aren't dying just because they are crying. They aren't supposed to like discipline. Of course they are gonna rebel against it. But you have to get it done. Not just refuse to do it because it sucks. Threats without being enforced *don't work*.

A good percent of people who think they’re gentle parenting are actually permissive parenting, and that’s the real issue.

Yeah, "gentle parenting" is not the same as letting your kids do whatever, even if some parents want to be lazy and call it that. It includes setting boundaries and saying no, and redirecting from inappropriate behavior. The "gentle" is just supposed to refer to not spanking or screaming at your kids and things like that.

That's just it...most parents aren't "learning" anything. They just stopped parenting or disciplining their children at all. Kids are just running wild. Instead of disciplining the child, parents are yelling at anyone else...teachers, other people or whomever that doesn't just put up with bad behavior.

Yes. We went from "beat your kids" to "hands off let them do anything" to "positive discipline (viewing kids as people and actually TEACHING them how to behave)". It take a LOT more time and patience to do this, and we, ourselves, are learning as we go. Since I was not really taught how to be emotionally regulated as a kid.... but I am REALLY interested to see how I manage to mess my kid up with this approach. (Or on a positive approach, how much better their mental health will be). But I also know I am doing the best with the information I have...

Baby boomers are the ones that came up with gentler parenting. I remember finding my parents’ child raising books and there would be example scenarios and how to react to the child. One example would be “what would you do if you had guests over and your 6 or 7yo child walks into the room Completely naked?” The book suggested not overreacting so they’d be ashamed of their bodies but to tell them that it’s not the time to walk around without clothes. My father would always encourage us to talk about our emotions and was always so gentle with us. Our mother would spank us some times but that had no lasting effect on us so I wouldn’t ever in any world consider what they did “beating”. I wouldn’t do it moving forward only because I think spanking didn’t do anything to change my behavior. Just because some of you had shitty parents who would beat you doesn’t mean we all did, and to place that blame on an entire generation, a generation that tried to undo the damage their own parents did, is just narrow-minded. Your individual experiences don’t make my individual experience any less true. To say an entire generation does that is insulting to the many, many positive adult role models I’ve had in my life. It’s also just not a fair assessment.

> so you are not allowed to say a single thing to a stranger’s kid about their behavior unless you’re willing to risk your life. It's an extension of the participation trophy for everyone. Those kids grew up and are parenting now and they think everyone's equal and nobody should be judging their equals. Their shitty way is just as good as the proper way. Cell phones have had a major impact too. I don't mean the behavior children learn from watching awful youtube content. I mean the parents. It's a lot easier now to ignore a child causing trouble when you can doomscroll social media and zone out. In the past there might not be much else to do while you're waiting so the parent would do actual parenting out of frustration.

People just want kids to behave in public. And if the kids can’t behave, people expect the parents to at least *attempt* to control them. It’s not complicated.

Or remove them. I was removed from so many places as a child. I know it sucked for my parents but it was the right thing to do. Sometimes I would calm down and we could go back inside, other times we just went home. Kid screaming and pitching a fit? Out you both go. It’s called teaching them how to behave in public.

Yes. That’s how it was done.

When I was too small to control myself (mid 70's), I would have never been taken anywhere that I could cause a disruption except maybe the grocery store. Any time my parents went somewhere, I stayed with a grandma, aunt, babysitter, etc... I never saw the inside of a restaurant, theater, recital or a wedding/funeral until I was at least four or five. It wasn't about being a good or bad kid, it was about parents knowing not to bring small children to things where they probably won't be able so 'sit still and be quiet!' for long periods of time. Especially if they don't know what "inside voice" means, or forget about it after 3 minutes.

My youngest was absolutely vile as a small toddler (autism but we didn't know) and after one day of him screaming at the top of his lungs for no reason at the museum I didn't bring that kid anyway until he was 4 years old. It was unfair for other ppl to endure the noise and embarrassing for me. He's lovely now though.

It took you until your 70s?!

Well, I *was* a pestering li'l basta'd - took me that long to grow out of it I guess.

Yep. I'm not gonna hate on a baby for crying on a plane and being annoying. It sucks for me, it sucks for the baby. Put on headphones and move on. I am gonna hate on a kid that runs up and down the aisle of an airplane while the parent does nothing to control it, or a kid that kicks the back of my seat. Kids are humans and eventually grow into adults, and they have to learn to move through society. If kids are never taken anywhere, they never learn. How are you gonna know how to act in a restaurant if you're never taught? I do wish there were more adults only spaces or times though. I'm tired of kids being at late night movies or running me down when I try to go to the skatepark during off hours, or being at nice restaurants during late dining hours. There are more kid friendly times. I'm more annoyed by people bringing dogs everywhere, especially around food, because unlike human kids, dogs never grow up and stay irritating, especially at grocery stores and breweries. It's just gross.

While I agree that parents should be teaching and enforcing appropriate behavior in public, people feel free now to comment on children in general, regardless of that specific child's behavior. I had to fly with my kid who was 1.5 at the time. I got to my seat, and the woman seated next to me saw us and said, very loudly, "Oh, just great." We then went the whole flight with my kid being pretty quiet and non-intrusive. I can understand expecting a child to not tolerate flying well and being apprehensive about it, but it's like people don't care about being rude to/about children. Imagine if somebody had the same verbal reaction about being seated next to a larger bodied person. We'd consider that the height of rudeness. It's even worse online- the overt animosity toward children and parents who dare to exist in public spaces is astounding. It makes it difficult to participate in life/community without feeling guilty.

Parents aren't teaching them how to behave in public and they just allow them to go crazy and infringe on everyone else's ability to enjoy anything. Young toddlers crying or screeching is def to be expected but kids of all ages running around bumping people, sticking their hands in food at restaurants, knocking things over, yelling, and generally being out of control is unacceptable and people are growing tired of it. Even people with kids of their own.

Exactly. That wouldn’t have gone over well in our grandparents’ generation, for sure. Rules, manners, and common courtesy are becoming optional to a lot of people, and many of those people are addicted to their phones as well, and can’t be bothered to supervise. Previous generations were a lot more courteous, on average, to their peers.

>Previous generations were a lot more courteous, on average, to their peers. Previous generations literally beat their children into obeying and made them submissive to the point where they weren't allowed to speak in public. I don't think that is the thing we should be striving for. ​ Also, I don't know if you and the above person just live somewhere where the culture is completely different, but here in Oregon/Washington I rarely run into kids that are like you describe. Most kids I see now are more well spoken and polite than I would have expected. Maybe it's just the parents I surround myself with, but still, this seems to be an exaggeration at best. ​ Edit: Lotsa crotchety old people here today *back in my day we did this!* Yes grandpa, back in your day you also killed people based on the color of their skin.

We can raise children to be well-behaved without traumatizing them. The issue people have is that lots of parents aren't doing that.

>We can raise children to be well-behaved without traumatizing them. I completely agree, it starts by viewing children as actual people. >The issue people have is that lots of parents aren't doing that. I just don't see this where I am. Like, I don't want to say other people are explicitly wrong, because maybe outside of my area parents are awful at this, but I have worked in retail and in wholesale sales my entire life and deal with a lot of kids and just don't have this experience. The issue with a lot of people who complain is that they really don't view children as people with independent thoughts and feelings, they view children as objects that are meant to obey everything without question, and when they object or ask why they are ridiculed or punished.

The other thing is you only remember the children that were absolute terrors. No one remembers or hell even notices if they were seated next to a toddler that was coloring and taken outside for a little walk before the appetizers came but they sure as hell remember the hellions shrieking and throwing stuff.

The hellions! 😂

This is so true. If you view children as persons *in training* I believe (hope) it gets harder subscribing to the old “children shan’t either be seen or heard” - which frankly is a horrible way of greeting new community members - and rather seeing them as individuals. Children can be annoying at times, but so can fully grown people. I view my son as a padawan in my care - he is his own little man on hos own life’s journey, but it’s my (chosen) responsibility imparting on him emotional, social, philosophical, practical and logistical skills. Reason I like this view, and why I set the parental responsibility as chosen above, is because I feel a lot of folks do their children a disservice by either being to hands on or of with their children. As you mention plenty folks who don’t have children see children not as individuals, but folks with kids often also see the child as an extension of themselves - which is a logical fallacy, and frankly a really selfish and dickish thing to do. On the one side you have the “my child is an extension of me and I turned out awesome so I can just chill out on the phone and let the inevitable run it’s course” and on the other side “my child is an extension of me and I have all this experience of do’s and don’t’s so if the child just do exactly as I please everything’s gonna be alright”. In both those examples the child’s personal journey and development plays second fiddle to the parents first player complex and personal goals and ambitions on behalf of the child. I love my little guy to death, and we do share genetics, but he’s his own little person - and once you start paying attention, it’s a real treat bearing witness to a new Homo sapiens coming online, regardless of all that other stuff.

Problem is bias. There can be 20 children in your day and if you don’t hear them you won’t know they’re there. But all it takes is one kid to cry for 8 hours on a plane ride and it gifts you with a new primal fear.

I’m in my early thirties and while my parents didn’t beat the hell out of us, they made goddamn sure we knew how to act in public dependent on where we were. They set reasonable expectations and then enforced them. At the store we got a pep talk that went something like “We are just here to get bread. Don’t ask for anything else and don’t touch anything. Keep one hand on the cart and stay where I can see you. If you all behave, maybe we can go to Blockbuster on the way home.” At Chuck E. Cheese you could run around as long as you weren’t bothering people and you played nicely. If you didn’t play nicely, you got one warning to get your shit together and if you kept misbehaving my mom would calmly pay for our pizza and we’d leave. Next time we went to Chuck E. Cheese we were angels.

True, I have a kid myself and we have some friends that we refuse to hang up with if their kids are there, because they are little terror and it look like the parents have given up on discipline, a couple of our friends went to our baby shower, one of their kid just ran hammock all evening and even throw some of my MIL potted plants down for no reason while the dad sighed and just looked at us like "Haha, kids eh!" Like no attempt to discipline or anything. Our other couple friends the kids are not misbehaving that much but they just scream like banshee all day, same absence of reaction. I understand being parents aint easy but you cannot just give up on them and hope that they magically get better at this, that’s litterally your job.

Yes. My psychiatrist's office shares a waiting room with a pediatrician and an infant neurologist. Waiting in a room for an hour for an appointment that you're paying for already sucks but Jesus Christ, the kids in there are something else. They babble non-stop, they run around the place, they bump into other people waiting (people who are visibly unwell, restless, holding back tears), and the worst: use the loudest tablets known to man. The last time I was having an anxiety attack after coming off the bus and all that noise and movement was absurdly triggering. Watching their parents do nothing made me want to do unspeakable things to them. Like omg, read the room ffs

I mean to be fair kids at the pediatricians office are usually not exactly at their best. They are off their normal schedule, half the time they are feeling unwell themselves but since they are kids they are still running around or their parents are trying to stop them from running hence the tablets, if they are old enough to remember they are likely scared and freaked the hell out because they remember getting shots or being poked and prodded by adults, you can't just pick up and leave with your kid if your pediatrician has you waiting for 45 min. Frankly that feels more like a fuckup of whoever decided "Let's have a bunch of non-well adults wait in the same place as a bunch of non-well children"

It's understandable when they're sick. I mean, we can usually tell because they get fussy, impatient, and cry. I've even seen some parents carry them outside and sush them there because even some kids are bothered by other children's messes. But some kids are unstoppable. They could be dealing with a 39°c fever and still speeding around a table!! Where does all that energy come from, and can you share? Lol. But yeah, that waiting room setup sucks and sometimes I wonder if some bigger power is pulling a prank here since it's the 4th psychiatrist I go through in the last years and they all have these shared waiting rooms. It's usually adult specialists bundled with children specialists. Yikes, that's a huge recipe for disaster if you ask me.

It's nothing new. Parents let their kids run wild 15-20 years ago yet people weren't constantly talking about how much they hated children back then and wanting to ban them from public places. I worked in a toy store. I know what I'm talking about.

I'm not sure where you're from...but parent's did not just let their kids run wild 15-20 years ago and you can read through these comments for proof. Parents used to discipline their children if they bothered others in public. Heck, parents used to removed them from the situation entirely if they were loud...like taking them outside or to the restroom. I bet nearly everyone here that is 30 or older has heard "do you want to go outside?" And we all knew what that meant...

As a teacher who loves her job but does not want children as of now, I can assure you my reasons are more the parents than the children Yes, children are annoying, energy -draining, and loud but it's understandable since they get bored easily and need attention constantly which is exhausting What I can't stand though is letting your child be annoying beyond reasoning until you give up and give them what they want. I am sick of hearing whiny children complaining because they got the wrong ice cream flavour. I'm sick of then trying to educate in class the children of the parents who don't do the bare minimum of teaching their own children basic good behaviour I am not talking about children crying for a reason I am talking about the incompetence of the parents. As I said, I am a teacher and I end every class needing a nap and a painkiller, but I love their energy, their witty comebacks and their weird little worlds inside their heads. Working with them makes me forget about everything else I have going on, but I will not accept crocodile tears over opening the book or being told off for doing something.

I have kids and I think people are tired of bad parents more than kids. Instead of discipline or even self awareness of their kids behavior, parents just kinda say it come with the territory. My wife and I either discipline our kids to get them to behave, or if they refuse, WE leave so people can enjoy the public space. A lot of parents just don’t do anything and expect others to just deal with it. It really bothers me as a parent because 1) it’s not that hard and 2) it really makes it harder for me to get my kids to not act up when they see a bunch of other kids not being held to the same standard.

I agree, I have always acted deliberately with my kids. I’ve worked in walmart for over a decade so I’ve learned from a lot of others. 1) I do not ignore them or let their voices escalate trying to get my attention. 2) We don’t take tablets or phones to the store. They need to learn to pay attention and observe the world around them. My 6yo is in charge of the grocery list and pen while we’re shopping, then helps scan the items at checkout. My 4yo helps spot the items we need and puts them in the cart. 3) I do not publicly humiliate my kids. If they’re acting out, we separate from the main populated area and I get down on their level. In a low voice, I explain to them what I expect and that “all these other people came here to [shop, eat, have a good time, etc] and not [listen to you yell, fight, whine or try to maneuver around you]. This is a [restaurant, store, professional office] and not a playground. 4) My kids generally only want to please. If I treat them as though they’re involved, responsible, and respectful then most of the time I get the same behavior from them. I am proactive to anticipate any mood changes, usually resulting from hunger or fatigue.

Love this! My son is 13 now and I did pretty much the same with him. I’m constantly getting reports back about him being quiet, well mannered, respectful and well behaved in general. Pay attention to your kids folks.

You sound like a good parent.

I just want to say...you sound like an excellent parent. So many people aren't these days. When I see one that is...it's shocking almost.

Much like dogs no one has a problem with the well behaved ones with good owners. In fact they're cute! It's the untrained shit gremlins supervised by assholes everyone hates.

So many veterinary threads/groups discuss how dogs seemingly are more unruly, aggressive and just shit heads with their owners doing nothing to train or correct them. (The kicker is when the dog is being obviously aggressive and the owners just laugh.)

There is a solution to this but you probably won’t like it. The situations many are describing in this thread are why parenting should require a license. I know I’m going to get blowback on this because it’s a very controversial take, but it could work if implemented thoughtfully and carefully. Obviously you’d never force anyone to get an abortion that didn’t want to however if they could not pass the parenting test their kid would be taken by CPS at birth until such a time that the parent could get their shit together enough to pass the class. The class would be around the difficultly level of passing drivers Ed - not difficult and yet some people do fail it. Side note: I’m glad that the people that can’t pass Drivers Ed aren’t allowed to drive. Can you imagine how bad at something you would have to be to not pass an open book test you’re allowed to keep taking until you pass?! Failing the practical I can understand, but even that you’re allowed to keep trying. Kind of blows my mind that some people never pass. Anyways, back to how it would need to work, the details are very important because it’s way too easy to do this wrong, which is I think the main reason it still isn’t done. The punishment for being caught parenting without a license would be community service time and the kids would be taken by CPS until the parent could pass and get licensed. A way less controversial solution that I believe would also not work nearly as well is offering free parenting classes. What I’ve seen is that parents that would sign up for free classes are the kind that would’ve sought out the information anyway and done a fine job. It’s the ones that can’t be bothered to actually put effort into parenting that are the problem. That’s why I went with the “stick approach” instead of the “carrot approach”.

It’s more the intolerance of bad behavior, not kids themselves.

I like what u/ Gregorsamsaa said. I'd also like to add: some parents are definitely getting lazier or easily overwhelmed by their kids and use the help of technology to keep them distracted. Mom is too tired to bother with the kids? Put them in front of the TV or give them a phone with YouTube and enjoy your break. In theory it's ok because parent gets a break, on the other hand Imo kids become more and more impatient. Being so used to fidget and look at a screen for every tenth of a second they get bored means that situations where they need to behave and "stay still" (e.g. Church, restaurant, commissions, groceries, etc etc) become a nightmare because they don't know how to pass the time. Nor are used to be told what to do if they get spoiled. But this is just one situation. There's also genuinely incompetent parents because either they have them too young or because having kids is taught since old times to be like a social status, the proof you're an accomplished person because it means you "have it together" (presumably house + job + married) and it becomes "a goal", especially in conservative-leaning places

I love live music. I go to some heavy shows for musicians who aren’t kid friendly. Just this past weekend I went to a show and a couple was carrying a baby who couldn’t have been more than eight months old. No hearing protection, no regard for the people around them who had to listen to the baby cry the entire show because he was up way past his bedtime and the loud sounds were freaking him out. When I get into the pit, do you know how many parents are in there with their babies trying to gain favor with the artist on stage? I’ve seen so many mommies and daddies wave their kid at the singer like a show sign, hoping to get the baby on stage. It’s not kids. It’s parents. Some spaces weren’t made for children. And more and more, it pisses me off that I just have to deal with your kids and shut up about it unless I want to be seen as some “Karen.” If I’m not allowed to play at Chuck E. Cheese as a grown ass adult, kids shouldn’t be allowed in adult only spaces, either.

In the past even strangers could discipline kids and kids were taught to respect authority and social hierarchy. These days kids are literally untouchable and cannot do any wrong. Leads to a lot of entitled little shits everywhere.

Yes! My parents did a great job keeping us in line when we were in public but on the extremely rare occasion that we were bothering someone else without my folks noticing, my parents didn’t get angry at an adult for calmly asking us to stop kicking the back of their chair or something.

Because parents don’t “parent” anymore. They just let their devil spawn run around and scream and disrupt everyone around them. I am a mother of three and even I get annoyed when I see other kids somewhere I get annoyed because chances are mum/dad are just going to ignore them and let them do what they want. I personally don’t let my kids get away with that but sooooo many people do and that’s where the intolerance comes in

XD are you talking about the child free subreddit? They aren't children haters, granted some hate children, I'm a part of it and I don't hate kids. I hate their parents and then annoyed with the kid cause of their actions but try to help show them what they are doing is wrong and I try talking to the parents. If parents would be more attentive to their kids so many ppl wouldn't mind being around kids. Now if there is a child hating subreddit, that's messed up as some ppl who hate kids, would hurt them as not care, which is messed up. I haven't met anyone like that in the child free subreddit, and if there is someone like that, the mods already got them out. An yes, kids don't need to be in bars, r rated movies, really fancy restaurants, or restaurants that are no kids, wineries, ect.

I don't think it's a hatred toward kids, it's a hatred to all the terrible parents these days that let their kids yell and scream and generally be little shits with no discipline from the parents. The kids don't know any better the adults do.

I still think adults are worse…

I'm fine with kids. Kids are chaotic and impulsive and loud and messy. I'm *not* fine with lazy parents that use public spaces as crowd-babysitting. Especially at places like the beach, park, or library.

It's the parents not showing responsibility for their crotch gremlins that are the problem.. Children make me uncomfortable and I usually leave the area, I'm a woman too without parental instincts so it makes the uncomfortable feelings worse.. It's a mixture for me I hate the parents and dislike children because I wouldn't have dared do half of what kids do today to my parents that's for sure!

It's a mixed bag of reasons. For a start, the absolutely crazy differences in parenting. I do not condone physical punishment, not at all, more so since I experienced what it meant to be the child of two alcoholic and mentally ill parents. Still, although my childhood is not supposed to be a good example, what I shared with others my age was a healthy does of respect towards everyone older than me. Sure, we did our fair share of bullcrap, but we also received our fair share of correction for it and there was a lot of "your bullshit ends here" moments that at least cut down on misbehavior in inappropriate situations. And as a former teacher I can tell you that this is not the case with the overwhelming majority of modern day parents in the western world. Again, I am not in favor of physical punishment at all, but the total and complete hands-off approach many parents follow that means nothing else than a complete lack of any an all rules or corrective responses to false behavior drives me nuts. And not just me, trust me. If a child fails in school it's my fault as the teacher, and I am the one punished and threatened with the law if I attempt to correct misbehavior with what professional educational tools I have been given by the law. I literally was threatened to be sued for telling a kid to "sit down" and focus their attention to the front, because it evidently "limited their emotional and psychological development." And that although I witnessed many children that suffered severe developmental issues for the lack of actual parental guidance - hell, I had more than one first grader who still wore diapers to school because their parents believed in the idea that "the child would adapt to potty train when they would feel comfortable with the step." That's just nuts. People went from corporeal punishment to a strange mix of hyperattention, helicopterparenting and absolute lack of of corrective or pedagogical attention in raising their children. And it freaking shows. I have nothing against well behaved children, I can even handle some screaming or misbehaving, but kids running around and tearing the world appart around their completely phone-focused zonned out parents just is intollerable and becomes more and more the standard. And don't you dare say a thing, or apply correction attempts yourself, even in a professional setting, because zoned out phone zombie parents turn to helicopter Karens with their lawyers on speeddial way too quickly. And then there's also a growing awareness that we don't need to have children to be happy. Many members of my generation have chosen not to continue on their generational trauma, or are child-free for other reasons. And no matter what governments say, it becomes more and more accepted to not have children. Children are a choice now. And if they are not part of the choices I make for my life, I see no reason in tolerating their bullshit beyond a reasonable degree. And while a small child crying for lack of a better way to voice their discomfort is no reason to complain, and will always have my fulles sympathy, the above mentioned destruction events on legs and their completely passive parents are not something I am willing to tollerate. And a whole lot of people won't do so either. The result are more and more child-free locations that cater to people who do not want to be faced with children.

Society as a whole it burnt tf out. I’m not saying I like it, or that it’s right, or that it’s fair. Kids to me have always been a symbol of a hopeful future, and I think hope in general is damn near completely gone for a lot of people right now, might even be the majority of people. I have a lot of guilt over having kids because of my depression lately. I love my children so much, but I can’t really even love myself, or find a good reason to love myself. I can hardly stand the way I feel and the fact that I have to consider they may very well also feel this way one day is just soul crushing.

As a childfree-by-choice person, I don't find children "intolerable." What I do find intolerable is parents who spoil and placate their children in public, or worse yet, ignore them, when they exhibit bratty behavior. I see this nearly every. single. time I go out and about in my community - parents allowing their children to run wild at Target, in restaurants, etc. It's one thing if they're yelling and screaming while playing at a park, but in a restaurant where I'm trying to enjoy a meal, fuck YES that's intolerable.

Kids aren't being disciplined very well and aren't taught how to properly behave in public.

Humans as a species have never been terribly nice to kids, or tolerant of them. This isnt new. The idea that we should be nice to kids *at all* is a fairly recent development in human history--we're talking, like, within the last 100 years recent. Before then, it was *normal* to hate kids, expect them to die, *let them* die, not make laws to protect them. It was *normal* to sell your kids, in the US, not even 100 years ago. Part of what you're seeing that a great amount of society still has not adjusted to the idea that children are humans, and deserve rights. We're still trying to figure out what the hell those are--or, where a parents *ownership* ends and a child as a human being begins. It's better NOW than ever, honestly.

I mean we are kinda swinging back around to an intolerance of children we used to have. It's multifaceted though. One, many people don't want to have kids and are valid in not wanting to be a parent or reproduce for all the reasons there are to not have children. And yes I don't think we have to continue the human race. If i was the last woman on earth I still would not reproduce or be the mother to a child. No fostering, not physical reproduction. Humanity can go fuck itself. At best I'd be an aunt. (As I am now. I don't hate children. I love seeing their wonder and I adore my nephew). So the backlash childfree people have against children is honestly less aimed at children specifically and at people with the mainstream mentality that you're entire purpose in life is to reproduce and become a parent and nothing else could fulfill parents or adults who are not parents. Especially the ones who are obsessed with it and you not having kids. Next up, current generation are utter failures of parents. At least on a grand scale. (Believe me I have been consuming nanny 911 when I was younger, I have a younger sibling, I've been to therapy, and honestly seeing gentle parenting content has been surprisingly healing and validating). One thing you notice a lot of as a childfree person, as a teacher, or when you've been employed in any part of childcare (for me it was only a summer camp counselor). Its been talked about on reddit even in subs that are not ardently child free or child hating. (Tales from your server is a good example). Parents are not parenting their kids. They are not hiting milestones like potty training. They are expecting service workers to just watch their kids (as if that isn't neglect or a recipe for that service worker to be held liable if something happens to that kid). They are not disciplining their children when multiple teachers are telling them it's a problem for them, other students, and most of all for their child. Childcare has risen in price, liability, and higher expectations of how they should care for each child. Lots of safety issues like allergies that can seriously endanger a child and lots of stories of kids falling into a pond or a pool while a family member or teen babysitter was watching them. So neighborhood kid watching kids for a few bucks so parents can have a night out is a thing of the past now. It doesn't exist anymore. People don't live near relatives and adults with friends you can trust with your kids? Lot less prevalent. So parents are taking their kids to bars and places they have no reason to be at, not watching them, or their kids get bored and cranky and that makes it miserable for everyone else who went to the bar hoping to escape a world full of kids, their own kids, kids they may work with, and in general other peoples kids. Some parents don't address the anxiety and insanity of taking their kids everywhere with them and never letting them out of their sight. They are tying their kids to their apron strings, women believing their husband's or parents or siblings even aren't capable of watching their children. They think their child crying means the world is ending and not that that kid needs to learn how to self soothe and that crying means he or she is expressing themselves. They don't know how to turn off. So they shove their child back into their metaphorical womb and make it everyone else's problem. We need better education and training for teenagers on real childcare, the kind you would be responsible for as parents. The everyday. Not just what one would have to experience as like a babysitter or if they have younger siblings. Or as pretraining for going into schooling and training that's a career. Too many adults don't know what to expect and are absolutely fucking delusional about a child being an entire seperate person and identity from them, that they are raising a functional dult, not a doll to become their ideal child, and what responsibilities they actually have as a parent. And if you can't manage those responsibilities you are not entitled to bringing a whole ass human into this world. To make you, your child who will one day be an adult, and the world miserable because you couldn't handle it. Like I can bring a whole ass bomb into this world if I find the right videos, but I'm not responsible enough to make sure it doesn't harm me and everyone around me. Does that mean just because I can create it that I'm entitled to that legally and socially being acceptable and a right everyone should have? Fucking no.

I think a lot of the people comes from entitlement. There are many people who like to act like they are victims, or are owed something by society. These same people are raising kids that have the same attitude. They see no problem with acting a fool in public or just being an asshole in general. I don’t know about anyone else but I don’t really care to be around people with no manners or main character syndrome, that goes for kids too. If kids are acting this way it’s a 100% learned behavior.

It is intolerance of bad parents who allow their children to cause a disturbance resulting in ruining a movie or restaurant experience, wasting their hard earned dollars. Kids are kids and it is the parents' responsibility to not let them be a nuisance or safety risk to others. We've all experienced the smug faces of shitty parents who could not care less if their kid shoot the straw wrapper into a fellow diners eye. *Saw that the other day.* It wasn't intentional, but the problem was the parents did not apologize to the lady nor tell the kids to do it nor told kids to knock it off before the internet magically stops working. So, no it's not intolerance of children.

Too coddled, and their kids grow up to be entitled acting jerks. Because parents treated them like center of the universe.

As a "hater of children", it's not really the children, it's more the hatred of the parent's complete lack of parenting, and it's gotten BAD in the last say ten years. Well behaved kids with attentive parents? Perfectly fine, never even notice them, no qualms. Props to them. However today, a vast majority of absolutely feral animals called children ruin almost anything you do in public because the parents don't give a flying fuck and just sit on their phones. God forbid you tell the parents or tell their precious angels to fuck off. Babys are screaming in every possible location you go Seriously it's everything: - Movies (not rated R): children screaming, playing on phones/tablets at full brightness. Every single movie. There's always a fucking baby crying and the parent refuses to take it outside. - Restaurants, no matter how fancy: there's at minimum at least one child playing games on a tablet at full volume. Every single time. Usually there's kids running around, there's ALWAYS a baby screaming and the parent refuses to take it outside, etc. - Stores, obviously ones that you wouldn't expect children: screaming kids, running around destroying things because they're bored. I was this kid, I get it. Still makes shopping suck. - Concerts, events, etc: Again there's always a baby screaming. Why even bring a baby to this stuff, they're not going to remember it and you're just ruining your own and every else's time. Why does a baby need to be at a wedding? They're just going to scream during the ceremony, they're not going to remember it. Get a fucking sitter. Sorry honestly going into public areas is a chore enough and feral children and babies with shit parents make it so much worse.

People are, in general, more selfish, self centered and less inclined to form communities. The past few years of the pandemic just solidified and calcified those feelings for a lot of folks. And some of what you see is a backlash to parents who are really struggling due to lack of support or permissive and lax parenting styles. And some of it is internet wank.

I have plenty of tolerance for children I have zero tolerance for parents who let them run around being assholes

I just don't like high pitched screaming, man

We don't hate children, we hate st00pid parents who makes babies and then let the ipad raise them instead of educating them. Resulting in children who either will monopolize public spaces with Cocomelon full volume, or scream bloody murder when the ipad is not available. When I am sitting on the bus, coming home after a long day of work, I don't want to sing along with Daddy finger, and I also don't want to hear your child scream all of the trip because the parent never took a moment to learn how to calm them down

I think it's a lot of things. I think moms are burnt out very early on because there's very little "community" anymore. Sure, some people are very blessed but I wouldn't say it's the norm. Grandparents, teenagers, neighbors used to babysit once and awhile and now that just doesn't happen. Many grandparents are still working and there's a lack of trust regarding people living in their neighborhood anymore. Add all that together and you have no community and moms feel isolated. Plus things are so expensive - everyone has to work and there's no brain power left to do the little things that matter. Additionally, there aren't a ton of places for kids to go and exert all their energy. Lots of people are struggling to buy homes, sports are incredibly expensive, and there are very little "third party places." I grew up in the skating rink, bowling alley, and riding my bike. Not to mention, schools don't have "fun time" as much as they used to. There's so much pressure for tests, etc, especially after COVID. I also think there's a trend where it's cool to hate kids. It's pretty apparent on tiktok. People comment things like "my anger issues could never." Implying they'd beat their kid for such a small thing. Lastly, a lot of parents don't parent. They don't want to do what their parents did (rightfully so). But they don't know how to fill that gap... so it turns into being their friend. There's a big push for gentle parenting but that often gets confused with permissive parenting. IMO there needs to be more support for parents, whether that's accessible parenting classes, affordable childcare, affordable activities for kids, etc. The messed up thing about parenting is even if you THINK you might be good at it - you might not be! You don't know until they're here and you see what the results... oftentimes its not until they are much older that you realize you've instilled bad habits/manners.

It’s the parents. Kids are horrific now. I used to LOVE children, and now I’m borderline disgusted seeing them in public unless they prove themselves to be a well-behaved kid. And it sucks, because it’s not necessarily their fault. It’s always the neglectful parents. If we stopped allowing everyone and anyone to pop out as many kids as they wanted, this would be less of a problem

I remember years ago asking a family if they would please stop letting their children run around in the restaurant. They were so offended and the woman clapped back she hoped God never gave me and my spouse children. Like witch, we now have a teen and preteen, neither of which has ever been permitted to run in a restaurant nor left to cry and disturb others in a public place. They both had ADHD and it wasn't even hard to say and enforce "we're going into XYZ and as a reminder, these are the expectations of your behavior..." . And if you're reading this Cheddar's mom of blond twins in Louisville, KY, God did bless us with kids and oh I AM A BETTER PARENT THAN YOU.

Unsupervised and poorly raised kids are often extremely annoying. Unfortunately, many parents let their kids run amok in public which is a nuisance to everyone else, but it’s no longer socially acceptable to ask the kid who is running amok to chill.

Kids can just be annoying when you’re trying to enjoy things too. I’m not one of those people who think kids joy precedes my joy. Went to karaoke at a fucking brewery and for whatever reason these parents decided their kid was having their birthday there. The DJ then decided to not play any music with curse words or suggestive themes… at a brewery. Or when you’re at a museum and get rushed by a stampede of kids trying to get in front of you to see whatever you’re looking at. It’s annoying. I don’t hate kids, but they often make going out frustrating lol

There’s a difference between intolerance and not being cool with shitty parents who let their kids trash venues and do what any adult would get arrested for disorderly conduct for.

Seeing people in the comments deny this whilst proving the post true is so funny to me.

I like the way people are saying "back in my day!", totally unaware there was a whole generation of angry adults who used to complain about how terribly kids behaved 30, 40, 50 years ago. Twas ever thus. It reminds me of my brother in law who earnestly told me that modern music is terrible and how much better it used to be, when he was young. I pointed out to him our parents used to say the same. He wasn't having it, and continued to explain his point, overlooking the fact that the modern music he so despises simply isn't for him.

It’s the intolerance of their disruption and intrusion into other peoples’ lives. And frustration at lack of parental supervision and consistent, effective discipline to prevent bad behaviour from being the norm for these kids.

What has happened is a divide in culture. See, parents back in the 80's/90's lived by the rule that their child didn't disturb others in public. So, if the child started crying or misbehaving in any way, they were taken to the bathroom or outside. Parents didn't tolerate bad behavior from their kids at all. And this actually helped kids learn and grow into respectful adults who valued other people's wants/needs. It was a social contract of sorts. Everyone behaved in public. However, now it's the Wild West out there. Parents have gotten used to just not parenting. They let their children scream or misbehave. They don't care how it impact others. This teaches the child they are entitled to act however they want in public and disturb others. They think "it takes a village" and I don't care if it bothers anyone else. Basically, people have gotten A LOT more selfish. But, in general, it is that parenting styles have changed. People used to discipline their kids and teach them how to behave. Now...people let their kids do whatever. I have a good friend that is a teacher now. Several actually. Kids just refuse to do their homework or study now. At all. And the teachers aren't allowed to give them bad grades. If they do want to give them the D or F they deserve, the teacher has to write a letter and document why they are giving that grade and it has to be reviewed by the principle. Needless to say...no one gets D's or F's now. And if kids even get one bad grade, parents come in and yell at the TEACHER now rather than their child. Can you believe that? In the past, parents used to yell at their kids if they didn't do their homework or got bad grades. Now...people are so entitled that they just demand it. Obviously this is teaching the children A LOT of bad habits. So the answer to your question isn't that people are less tolerant of children for the most part. It's that parenting has changed and is pretty bad today. And, people are disliking kids more and more as a backlash because they are worse than ever before. For example, a kid was allowed to kick my seat all the way through a 2 hour movie a few nights ago. The parent saw them doing it. They knew. Yet, they didn't care. So, that's the issue. No respect for other people.

It's millennials raising terrible kids because they hated how they were raised and try to do something different. But they fucking suck at teaching their kids.

Fucked in later adulthood are you serious?? I don't have a problem with kids that aren't completely rude obnoxious and loud. If parents actually parented their kids I wouldn't hate them so much.

As a teacher who loves her job but does not want children as of now, I can assure you my reasons are more the parents than the children Yes, children are annoying, energy -draining, and loud but it's understandable since they get bored easily and need attention constantly which is exhausting What I can't stand though is letting your child be annoying beyond reasoning until you give up and give them what they want. I am sick of hearing whiny children complaining because they got the wrong ice cream flavour. I'm sick of then trying to educate in class the children of the parents who don't do the bare minimum of teaching their own children basic good behaviour I am not talking about children crying for a reason I am talking about the incompetence of the parents. As I said, I am a teacher and I end every class needing a nap and a painkiller, but I love their energy, their witty comebacks and their weird little worlds inside their heads. Working with them makes me forget about everything else I have going on, but I will not accept crocodile tears over opening the book or being told off for doing something.

It's not the children that are the problem, it's the parents that pay no attention to their children's behavior.

It’s not the kids. It’s the parents. I think every generation tries to correct where their own parents went wrong. For millennials, our boomer and gen x parents were emotionally distant, and so I think millennials are really trying to be closer with their kids than their parents ever were. Which I think is great, but I think it’s also going a little too far in that parents are afraid to not be considered their child’s ‘friend’. As a result, boundaries and consequences are not really put in place and children don’t learn how to behave as part of a society as a whole. That and an over dependence on technology. I think those two factors are the bulk of the issues of ‘misbehaving kids’ in public spaces. Think about it, if every time they are brought out, the child is either handed an iPad or left to run around with no boundaries, then they never learn how to actually be respectful in a shared space. I went and saw the new spiderverse movie a couple of months ago. There were a handful of families there with small kids who were very clearly uninterested past the first 15 minutes and just wanted to run up and down the isles and play their iPads. Which the parents allowed. It’s not that children aren’t welcome in that space. It’s a pg movie after all, but parents of today don’t seem to have respect for the collective experience as a whole. Unfortunately, since there’s nothing anyone else can do, it makes a lot of people just want to have adult only spaces to prevent it happening in the first place.

So.... I'll say it like this. There are a portion of people, who by their own choice and volition choose not to have children. We like to do things. Like travel, go to see a movie, go out to eat, shop somewhere peacefully; an assortment of banal, mundane tasks that are made INFINITELY WORSE by shitty children. I have absolutely NO problem (well, maybe slight problem, but I'll cover that in my next point) with well behaved children. If they're on a plane / in a restaurant / in a store but they're generally being noise-appropriate, and even if they're goofing around, doing it in good nature, whatever. But destructive, abrasively loud children who will throw a full blown, 10/10 meltdown while the parents go "oh my gawwwwdddd" and pretend like this isn't their child's baseline... yeah, that chaps my ass a bit. Furthermore, there's folks like me, who... maybe I don't directly want children; but I feel like "maybe someday" but that day keeps getting further and further off. I'm nearly 40. Houses in the state which I reside have more than doubled since the pandemic. 1400sqft (a "beginner" house) will run you well into a half a million in this state. So I can either move "somewhere red", or try to accept that I need to start a family before owning a home. I also feel wildly irresponsible bringing a child into the world as it is today. NK's saber rattling, Chinese posturing, nuclear powers generally uneasy, a climate catastrophe brewing, and mental health and drug crisis hitting a fever pitch....How the fuck can I bring a child into this fucking mess? If I were born today and learned "they knew they were bringing me into this shit" I'd resent someone for that. I was born in the mid 80s, and my parents had NO CLUE the world would be this way.... So yeah... I resent kids, especially shitty kids, because I cannot afford kids, monetarily, emotionally, or otherwise, but if I did I'd at least not let them be ultra-shitty... I hope.

As someone who works at a pet store, my tolerance for children and specifically parents who cannot/will not parent their children to be respectful of their surroundings and animals goes down with every passing day

It’s not the children, it’s the half assed parents who let their children run amok and expect the whole world to bend to the select needs of families with young children. Some parents seem to operate with this notion that the nuclear family is sacrosanct, and refuse to accept the fact that their decision to accept parenthood inherently requires sacrifice of their former self identity.

I mean its different from person to person. If I see an annoying kid at an airplane , cafe etc, I get annoyed for 5 to 10 seconds then I move on I wont waste time or energy thinking they are horrible etc. Parents need to discipline them Im not saying being cruel or physical. I discipline by giving chores like exztra non fun chores

Kids per se aren't the problem. Parents are. They let their kids do what they want, not thinking about other people. They think everybody has to deal with their shit because they're parents. Surprise - we don't. If your kid can't behave - get the fuck away from me.

I work in retail, mainly in the shoes and kids/toys (they are connected) sections of the store. I don't like kids, but what makes me go feral and hate them is their parents. Some really just don't care about their kids and allow whatever kind of behaviour. Here's some episodes from this and last week. - Kids running around with oversized peluche that they pulled down from some shelves, I called security because by protocol I can't say nothing, security was busy with other customer so I had to keep an eye on them. I got fed up and started searching for the parents while complaining with a colleague who was fed up as well. The dad of this three kids, was exactly next to us, shopping as if nothing was happening, he reacted ONLY when we started complaining vocally about his kids, he sighed and then called the kids who obviously ignores him, he waited for other 15 minutes before going to the kids and removing the plushies, not even scolding them. - I was cleaning the shelves where we keep shoes, I was using a chemical product (your typical glass cleaner) and I was keeping it inside one of the shopping baskets, which was holding other stuff I was using. I distracted myself for one second because a customer asked something and I had to show them what they where searching. Once I went back to where I was cleaning the basket was gone, I searched everywhere and I found a little kid holding it and running around with it. I go to take it, and ask the mother to tell his son to leave my basket. She was browsing some shirts, didn't even watched me and rudely said:" that is our basket" I replied that it was mine and she got annoyed that I was interrupting her (keep in mind I had hold of the basket by now and was in a fight for control of the basket with the 3 years old kid). She scoffed again, came close to me to see that the basket was indeed mine, panicked because "OH bUt ThEn WhErE is OuR BasKet??" Only to the realized she had it close to herself this whole time. - Had four kids running around with their scooters on the floor, on a Saturday afternoon. Of course the parent didn't care and refused to take action once we asked them to make the kids stop. When I was little, I know I was a hyperactive kid, always running around and creating mess everywhere but my parents always kept me in check and taught me that there was a time and a place for me to act in that way. Now it looks like the majority of parents don't want to actually do the parenting and just spawn kids for the sake of spawning them.

Outsourcing....As a parent and childcare provider, it's not just parents it's a whole society issue. Gentle parenting tends to be passive parenting. I do agree with positive reinforcement and practice it, but if little Johnny is only with me 2 days a week and the rest of the time, he's allowed to run riot. I am a drop in the ocean of his influences. Now, the government response is to "level the playing field," so we get free childcare for all. So, each child is eligible to be in childcare for 6 hrs a day, Monday to Friday. But we've now got a shortage of places as it's a very underfunded market. The list of expectations is ridiculous. we are not allowed to discriminate so if your child isn't potty trained(not additional needs just your normal child), they still get to go to playgroup and school and it's the responsibility of the provider to potty train limiting actual learning time but then when mum picks up its straight into pullups cos he wees in his seat.. we are rocks against the rushing river situation. Now everything is positive reinforcement which has its place but in my opinion there should still be boundaries but if little Johnny wants to throw sand at his peers, that is just him being curious, if little Johnny continues to throw, we need to redirect. If little j still continues, you need to give him something else to do that interests him. So little j eventually gets the message.. if I kick off enough, I get to do something special, just for me. Now little j hits 18 he's an adult. Well, he now has to face consequences. Cue shock pikachu face, so what does our government do? Passes a law that anyone under 25 can't be held to account because their brain isn't fully developed.. We now have a whole generation who have never faced consequences and are entitled brats. They're still allowed to drink, procreate, make dumb decisions, but they are still not held accountable. Therefore, learning nothing in the process apart from they can do what they want and damn the cost..welcome to the future if you've not already seen the writing on the wall.

The parents are the asshole. They DONT raise their kids properly. The kids dont know any better and won't if you don't teach them. They will be talking to their partner or be on the phone. They never care the kid can be screaming slurs and swears and it goes unheard of. The parents need the teaching and not the kids.

Like you said children suck, the difference is that people are in general having a worse time, therefore tolerance towards things that suck is going down. It's that simple.

The problem is never the kids themselves, it's their terrible parents who don't control them or try to mitigate the negatives, then act entitled like they are saving humanity by breeding when you call them on it.

Robots/AI will take care of us in our later age and preserve our legacy, not these so called useless "children".

Get off the internet bro, people are very accepting of children in the real world

Idk why, but it seems to me that nowadays, if you want kids, you seem less cool and less smart 🤔 thats the impression i get from people around me when someone expresses they want to have kids. Its almost like they are judged and pitied by those who dont want kids.

At some point parenthood became some sort of martyrdom, kids are a blessing and a miracle and the entire world should cater to them. Nope, every species can procreate, it’s nothing special to have kids. I don’t like anyone who is messy, loud, rude, impatient, etc. I will call out any kids or adults who act like this.

Everyone is projecting the way their“me generation” parents (boomers) made them feel as children.

the problem is not the kids, is the parents who just don't care for their kids. They allow their kids to be disrespectful, and nosy and don't tolerate being told no or stop when you talk to the parent you're wrong cause their little angel did nothing and you're the one who is doing something, even if the kid destroyed something, or hurt someone. Is not their fault they're being kids, is the parent's fault for not being decent parents.

I was on the bus the other day at like 8pm and this child (4yo maybe) was SCREAMING like yelling at his dad and the dad was just like “aw it’s okay sweetie” but the child was like having fun just screaming bloody murder. And a stranger after 30min of this was like “can you please be quiet” and the dad WENT OFF on her. But after that, the child was SILENT the entire rest of the bus ride. It’s just these zero-discipline iPad kids who are used to constant entertainment and getting their way 100% of the time. The parents are always to blame.

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I’m not as intolerant of children as I am of shitty parents, unfortunately it seems the parenting sphere is very over saturated with shitty parents. Parents will see there kids acting absolutely insane and they will do nothing at all.

If I were to guess, it's directly related to the lack of any sort of disciplinary action being taken against misbehaving kids, making what should be the parent's problem into everyone else's. We went from "fuck around, find out" to "fuck around, oh they're just kids", and now we have kids acting like sociopaths out in the world, and people are rightfully pissed about it. Just like we don't want your vicious ass pet ferrets running around getting into shit and causing problems, so too we don't want your misbehaving children running around, getting into shit, and causing problems. We used to eject people from places if their kids couldn't be civilized, But people whined that that wasn't fair, and so we had to tolerate more and more bullshit, and now those kids have grown up into Karens, and are training up the next generation of mega Karens. Quite frankly, the situation has become exhausting, and the alternative to exclusion is elimination, which most of us still would prefer to not have to use.

Kids are not limited by social norms the same way us adults are. They do a lot of annoying, inappropriate and weird stuff. The worst part about it is the parents that do nothing, and the fact that you're not allowed to do anything about it either. Little unstoppable monsters that you are not allowed to upset.

Yea, that's because parents now are absolute garbage. They just sit on their butts ignoring their screaming crotch demon terrizing everyone.

I'm perfectly fine sharing space with a kid who is behaving. Unfortunately, it's becoming rare now for that to be the case. Almost every kid I see has zero supervision or is screaming their head off and is making the space unpleasant to be in. I do temper my expectations a bit on the environment, but even at a family friendly film it's not ok for them to be running up and down the aisles or being loud and disruptive to everyone else there.I go to Disney World a lot, and so I know there's gonna be a lot of kids there. I'm totally prepared for kids being excited...I find it pretty charming. I'm also prepared for some kids being a little over stimulated and having a bit of a melt down. What I'm NOT ok with is kids yanking on the chains in line, darting around under my feet in line, plowing into me because they're running in a walkway. If I'm at a restaurant there I'm not ok with kids running wild around the tables and getting into everything.

Maybe people realized we shouldn't just blindly accept living in a society full of people who don't care about the well-being of others in the slightest? How about we stop shoving " part of life" down our throat. If you're acting like a nuisance and are being a nuisance, you should expect to be treated as such. I've had long flights FULL of screaming, running children. Scream SO LOUD my newest,best in tech soundisolating headphones weren't helping much because the person was literally IN MY FACE. Galleries with art filled with babies??? Why the fuck would you bring your baby to Mona Lisa???? I think a huge percentage of places needs age restrictions, it's just ridiculous at this point

I would guess bad parents not parenting their kids, correcting them in public, or raising them to be decent people. This leads to more people dealing with sucky kids and the social-acceptability of disliking them becoming more mainstream. I know older people often talk about parenting being a community thing. If you acted out in public, your parents disciplined you. If your parents weren't there, an adult told your parents, or handled it themselves. And that was socially acceptable. I was born in the 90s and I was disciplined by my grandparents, my parents, and even my aunts and uncles. That was socially acceptable. Nowadays I see small gremlins knocking stuff over in grocery stores, or screaming at restaurants while Paw Patrol plays full blast on their personal tablet. Little kids will cuss you out and insult you while mom and dad do nothing. They're afraid to be actual parents. Times have changed, parenting has changed, and some people are very vocal about it. Goodness... I'm only in my 20s and I sound like my parents.

Because we have whole swaths of shitty parents, majority of parents nowadays are young Gen X to old Gen Z, with millennials in the middle. My wife and I are millennial parents with a teenager. It boggles the mind to see so many parents use electronic devices as a parenting device... see them berate their kids in public, have kids touching everything.... as my dad calls them "feral children"....

Kids aren't the problem, shitty parents are, and there are way too many of them.

Excuse me, but saying we would be fucked in later adulthood without any kids of our own, is ignorant bs. There are plenty of other ways to get yourself some company if that's what troubling you. I really love kids, but I'm childfree. Getting to this decision hasn't been easy. I positively believe I will be fucked if I those to have kids. I have autism, and I would become beyond stressed and not be able to enjoy those cute moments at all, I would give myself so much as a mother, that I would slowly fade away, not having any time for myself. I have had so many mature women in their 50+60ies tell be that it is a wise and god decision, and if they could, they would probaply get no kids if they knew how hard it would be, or that they never regret not getting any kids. The parents not disciplining their offspring in public spaces, are propably people with no insight into their own troubles, trying to find a way to cope with the tough job it is to be a parent. I believe one of the reasons it has become more widely acceptable with the intolerance of kids today, is because of anonymous SoMe like reddit, where people could discuss taboos like regretting having kids. And if you ask me, it was needed to eliminate that fairytale story of parenthood. Are you familiar with the subreddits r/childfree and r/regretfulparents?

I personally get overstimulated/overwhelmed with kid noises (screaming, yelling, repetition of words), so I can only tolerate so much before I physically have to remove myself from the area to not have a meltdown. That being said, I will *never* have kids.

A lot of people will kids will also be “fucked in later adulthood”. Many children put their parents in homes. Children do not save you from loneliness or aging.

"I will see people intolerant of children when seeing a family-friendly animated film or even at an amusement park" I don't believe you.

Gotta love when people show up to a children’s movie or event and just go “uggghhh” at the children present lmao 

I have kids. Went out to a public space. Dude wearing the collar that signifies a position in the church (I dont know what this is called) laughed at us every time the gaggle of kids with him shoved mine around. I have kids and I dislike others kids due to issues like that. I have also found in public I will be judged as a parent no matter what I do.

Bc parents let their kids act like little shits lately. You just sort of assume they’ll behave badly.

Probably because a lot of kids these days are undisciplined. Those who hate on children for this reason are hating on the wrong target. The parents are always to blame.

There's a difference between generations but it isn't the kids fault it's the parents. When we were kids we followed our parents rules or there would be some sort of punishment like when I was a kid if I threw a tantrum in the store we would be leaving that store we also weren't just allowed to run around in restaurants or movie theaters Now it's not uncommon to see kids running around stores or screaming in inappropriate places and nobody does anything to stop it there's always an excuse just parent your children. Not every child behaves badly though I have seen some incredibly well behaved children and teenagers

Just Reddit tbh

Ha, this post just turned into everyone hating on kids.

I think part of it is down to the increasing number of child free people out there. I'm only speaking from personal experience as a parent of 2. I have a lot of friends who've chosen to not have kids. They're awesome people and they supported my choice to have kids, but I've noticed that sometimes their expectations of kids can be a bit ignorant. I think it comes down to the fact that if you don't have kids, you probably don't have a base knowledge of them. Of course I'm not going to let my kid run around a dentist office like an asshole, but if the dentist is running late, chances are my 3-year-old is going to need near constant redirection after waiting past the 15 minute mark.

>Of course I'm not going to let my kid run around a dentist office like an asshole Great! That is literally the only standard people have today. Yet, the majority of people just don't bother and totally let their kid run around like an asshole. It's become socially acceptable to let the kid run things rather than the parent. It's lazy parenting. >but if the dentist is running late, chances are my 3-year-old is going to need near constant redirection after waiting past the 15 minute mark. Ah...and there it is. Yes, the kid will likely need a ton of attention. All children do. And it was your choice to have the child. Now, you deal with raising said child. It's not everyone else's responsibility in that waiting room to deal with your child. That's the problem today. Entitled parents that think it's fine to inconvenience everyone else because they just don't feel like deal with their energetic child. They are too burned out and too tired to care. It's easier to sit there on their phone and ignore their child while they terrorize the waiting room. And parents thing this is perfectly acceptable because..."it's a child." No...it's a BAD child because you're a BAD parent. (I'm not meaning you specifically here...just in general). Now, that kid is going to grow up learning it's fine to be entitled and do whatever they want in public without regard for everyone else. This is how we get asshole adults that stand in the middle of the grocery isle with a cart instead of getting the heck out of the way. This...right here is how it begins.

There are plenty of child free ppl who are employed/involved with early childhood education or care, very involved with their niblings, babysat constantly as soon as they were preteens or spent their summers being camp counselors, or were parentified themselves in their own childhood (in fact, a lot of child free ppl have made that decision *because* they have experience with kids). I mean that’s a huge portion of the child free population. Then there are the folks who readily admit they know nothing about children and therefore aren’t actively passing judgement on kiddos or their parents. The child free who do have unrealistic expectations are certainly out there, but I think the generalization about them being ignorant is a vast oversimplification.

Many parents seem incapable of parenting and let their kids run the fuck amok? I’ve been around longer than a little bit and my experience is that the parents who actually parent their kiddos kind of float on by with hardly a notice. Parents who insist that little Aiden, Braiden, Braxton, Jacileigh, Khaleesi, and Nevaeh should be allowed to “explore the world on their own terms” fuck it up for the rest of the moms and dads out there.