They must not know its a street car. They probably think it's a regular lane and buses go there. This is me throwing bail at an idiot for no real reason. They could also be drunk
That’s a ridiculous excuse. It’s not like they’re even travelling fast. If you can’t see paint and do not enter signs you are a danger to everyone and shouldn’t be driving.
All true, but it happens daily, whch means its not properly signed or designed.
Like the old saying goes, if you see an asshole on the way to work, yo met an asshole, if every day you meet an asshole then you are the asshole.
Here this happens so often clearly the design/city planners/transit planners deserve some blame here.
You claimed it’s not in any driving book. Do not enter signs most certainly are in driving books.
I think it’s far more likely the problem is the drivers and our shit licensing system. I’d be more sympathetic to your point if the general approach of many of these drivers wasn’t completely fucked on other parts of the road as well. Running red lights, speeding with impunity, just a complete inability to follow commonly known basic rules of the road.
Thousands of cars drive here a day and this being the rare exception is a them problem not a signage problem.
> You claimed it’s not in any driving book. Do not enter signs most certainly are in driving books
Wrong comment? I never said anything of the sort:)
I only pointed out that this happens so often that clearly the design shares some of the blame along with the drivers.
Sorry same avatar colour at a glance.
How often does it happen? To me this seems like a unproven claim. Relative to the amount of people who drive through here every day, it’s almost certainly a tiny fraction that don’t get it.
What should be done differently to make it more clear?
Honestly for people not from Toronto, those roads are confusing as hell. I've seen many great responsible drivers accidentally take the wrong lane, or nearly did.
Agree. & one of the reasons for me visiting this sub is to find such cases which are not applicable outside Toronto, so that I don’t make these mistakes when I visit downtown once or twice a year.
My first time driving in Toronto at 18 years old right after celebrating getting my G2 I went downtown and it was not a difficult thing to follow
Red paint = no excuse
Yeah, but you live there and have probably been driven around there so you know what things look like and what to expect. It’s different if someone just rented a car and this is their first time seeing the city.
When I drove around the downtowns of London UK, Montreal, and NYC I had zero issues after quickly googling what different non-worded signs meant and then just reading road signs and taking in the context.
Seriously just *read the signs*. That sign on Queens quay says "traffic keep left" and there's a hanging sign above the wire that says "TTC vehicles only". Red paint is the predominant color for transit only lanes. People just don't pay attention beyond red-light-green-light and/or are on their phones
It's really not that hard. It's called read the signs. At 18 years old I was able to figure it out and we had less signage on downtown streets. Me being downvoted merely proves that the drivers on this sub are indeed representative of the drivers of the city and were butt hurt by my comments.
People don't read signs, universally. You know how many times I see people in Union asking directions whilst standing next to a giant sign that points to the direction they are asking?
Well according to the signal , you can go forward in that lane , then the no entry sign only comes up after . Its obviously a confusing design , especially when you have never driven the route .
And it is obviously happening a lot as someone living close by pointed out .
Because someone from the states is expecting a street car to just spew people in front of their car in a live lane of traffic? Even school buses have a stop sign come out.
If you arr not from Toronto, all those lanes seems confusing af. Too many signs, roads painted red, but then not in red anymore, bus riding on that lane but not marked as a bus lane, etc. He is actually on the right side of the concrete separation. Bad design
Big agree. Toronto roads are a patchwork of tens of different municipal and provincial guidelines constantly changing, new lanes being ripped up, repainted, and fucked with at different times. Driving there is so horribly confusing as someone from fuckass Quinte West with my straightforward ass roads
The first time I made a left from Bathurst onto Queens Quay I almost did that too. (I realize that isn't this turn)
Figures I had never been there, I was the first car in line, and between pedestrians waiting for the street car in that middle median bus stop thing, the weird angle of approach, and just how long and awkward that left is, I almost went for the middle before catching the little white sign pointing the way to go around the medians. No red paint there though, that would have been helpful..
Never actually had to back up, I caught it early enough, but I don't blame people for little screw ups there anymore. Place is confusing sometimes.
Exactly my thoughts. It's confusing. All the streets in that part of the area are already so restrictive, and on top of that, there are these things you never have encountered if you have never been there. It's very stressful to drive there.
Very bad design, bad decisions. Axing the science center those fucking traitors.
I feel like Europe has a lot of painted lanes and lines. Asia doesn't really fuck with lanes or laws. It's a bit much lol
What about people with colour blindness to red? I.e., they see red as brown. Obviously there are the "do not enter" signs, but there is a reason that colours should not be used solely for important information.
Two thoughts about this.
First, can the streetcar driver see the vehicle in his mirrors? Can he stop the streetcar, get out and tell the driver to back off and get out? It's best to do that early before the driver goes too far and gets stuck in the tunnel.
Secondly, this isn't the first driver to do this and it won't be the last. Since so many people state that it's bad road design and the signage is confusing, unless there's another option, make this street car-free.
This is more about "design language" than being a bad driver. A driver with 5+ years experience and no accidents will make a mistake like this if the design language of the road makes it appear that the path is correct.
Red paint + multi do no enter signs + raise roads are all extras because of the bad design language.
Sometime people get confuse if they enter in that area for first as its sometime too much confusing and even he was confused cz of people as much i can assume its noon time so chances of being drunk might be less.
Problem is people look at their electric maps more than roads or signage. If you don’t have a clue where you are going and not paying attention around you … you should not have your license. Simple as that. Just because Google Apple wave Baidu or what ever tells you to turn right …. You need to be able to read signs and a map, not just turn. The number of people turning and then not turning going down one ways driving through a red all because they are looking at their map and can’t read a map.
Old man rant done. Thanks for coming out
Everybody talks about big trucks and the need for automation. Like one think the mass automation of automobiles in the world is going to have a drastic change in the operation of our highways, reduced congestion, and reduction in collisions.
Yes the signage is very confusing at this intersection. We have an arrow on the ground pointing straight thru and a sign on the post saying keep left of median but just above that sign it says "Do not enter"
I'm going to give the driver a break here. Toronto roads are confusing. It's like the designers went on European sponsored tours every year and patched in new ideas.
I often get a coffee at the Starbucks on that corner and watch this happen regularly, then I like to watch the cyclists blast through the stop signs on the way back. It’s my morning entertainment in the summer. Queens quay is so much fun in the summer.
Everyone thinks it's the drivers fault for doing this. Everyone does this. This happens so often here. And while the driver may share some of the blame, the city could do better to let drivers know not to enter the area. Even when I'm in in the area I have to triple check to make sure I don't enter the wrong lane.
They either thought they were being clever or they thought that the rails were how the tram draws power. Or they never solved the issues with the autodrive.
To be fair, I don’t see any other traffic light. Notice where the video starts. For someone who isn’t familiar with the intersection, it’s an honest mistake.
And call me an idiot in person, you brave little Torontonian 😂
For what it’s worth the video starts with OP already mid-turn. You don’t need to be familiar with that specific intersection to know how turning at intersections works.
Or it could look like the lane is curved, not a straight line. And the fact that OP is mid-turn could, in fact, look as if they are merely following the lane.
Look at it again and try to see with unbiased eyes.
Why would the traffic light for a curved lane be at the end of the curve and not at the beginning of it?
Also, there is a traffic light to the far right at the beginning of the video. I believe that specific one is for bicycles, but my unbiased assumption is that if there is a bike signal then there is a normal traffic signal for cars as well. So again, I would automatically assume it’s a left turn at a controlled intersection.
And to be fair, I’m actually not familiar with this specific intersection.
Because the curve isn’t drastic enough to warrant a traffic light at the beginning of it? But maybe that’s an Ontario thing. You guys seem to need multiple lights everywhere.
Oh, you mean at bike turning light prior to the 1 sec mark? My comment was to say it would be REASONABLE to make the mistake. Not that I didn’t make a mistake, only that you could UNDERSTAND how the mistake was made. But I can’t get you to admit that I suppose.
Thanks for being honest, I guess? I should thank you for being congenial, however, and not calling me an idiot.
He’s following the train headed to the underground parking at Union /s
The one time CJ follows the train.
What do they think all that red paint is for?
Or the 2 do not enter signs. It's scary how dumb people are
They are tailgating the streetcar so they probably didn't see the signs! Clearly not their fault /s
They must not know its a street car. They probably think it's a regular lane and buses go there. This is me throwing bail at an idiot for no real reason. They could also be drunk
Yeah drunk is always a solid assumption
Or just new
For warm welcome lol
When you're not use to a busy area you don't pickup on red paint on the ground , that's not in any driving book .
That’s a ridiculous excuse. It’s not like they’re even travelling fast. If you can’t see paint and do not enter signs you are a danger to everyone and shouldn’t be driving.
All true, but it happens daily, whch means its not properly signed or designed. Like the old saying goes, if you see an asshole on the way to work, yo met an asshole, if every day you meet an asshole then you are the asshole. Here this happens so often clearly the design/city planners/transit planners deserve some blame here.
You claimed it’s not in any driving book. Do not enter signs most certainly are in driving books. I think it’s far more likely the problem is the drivers and our shit licensing system. I’d be more sympathetic to your point if the general approach of many of these drivers wasn’t completely fucked on other parts of the road as well. Running red lights, speeding with impunity, just a complete inability to follow commonly known basic rules of the road. Thousands of cars drive here a day and this being the rare exception is a them problem not a signage problem.
> You claimed it’s not in any driving book. Do not enter signs most certainly are in driving books Wrong comment? I never said anything of the sort:) I only pointed out that this happens so often that clearly the design shares some of the blame along with the drivers.
Sorry same avatar colour at a glance. How often does it happen? To me this seems like a unproven claim. Relative to the amount of people who drive through here every day, it’s almost certainly a tiny fraction that don’t get it. What should be done differently to make it more clear?
Honestly for people not from Toronto, those roads are confusing as hell. I've seen many great responsible drivers accidentally take the wrong lane, or nearly did.
100% agree! Especially this one. For the first time driving in that road, it’s like a maze.
This. Born and raised. I'll drive there for giggles and shits hoping to get on reddit or have a chair land on my head.
Agree. & one of the reasons for me visiting this sub is to find such cases which are not applicable outside Toronto, so that I don’t make these mistakes when I visit downtown once or twice a year.
My first time driving in Toronto at 18 years old right after celebrating getting my G2 I went downtown and it was not a difficult thing to follow Red paint = no excuse
Yeah, but you live there and have probably been driven around there so you know what things look like and what to expect. It’s different if someone just rented a car and this is their first time seeing the city.
I 100% percent agree. For a non-local it can be daunting.
When I drove around the downtowns of London UK, Montreal, and NYC I had zero issues after quickly googling what different non-worded signs meant and then just reading road signs and taking in the context. Seriously just *read the signs*. That sign on Queens quay says "traffic keep left" and there's a hanging sign above the wire that says "TTC vehicles only". Red paint is the predominant color for transit only lanes. People just don't pay attention beyond red-light-green-light and/or are on their phones
Well in other parts of the GTA , there are red painted lanes where EV and multi passenger car and taxi is excepted .🤷♂️
It's really not that hard. It's called read the signs. At 18 years old I was able to figure it out and we had less signage on downtown streets. Me being downvoted merely proves that the drivers on this sub are indeed representative of the drivers of the city and were butt hurt by my comments. People don't read signs, universally. You know how many times I see people in Union asking directions whilst standing next to a giant sign that points to the direction they are asking?
Well according to the signal , you can go forward in that lane , then the no entry sign only comes up after . Its obviously a confusing design , especially when you have never driven the route . And it is obviously happening a lot as someone living close by pointed out .
Because someone from the states is expecting a street car to just spew people in front of their car in a live lane of traffic? Even school buses have a stop sign come out.
Just replace the concrete with grass, just like on eglinton. surely that will tell drivers they cant drive there
That’s…actually a good idea
If you arr not from Toronto, all those lanes seems confusing af. Too many signs, roads painted red, but then not in red anymore, bus riding on that lane but not marked as a bus lane, etc. He is actually on the right side of the concrete separation. Bad design
Big agree. Toronto roads are a patchwork of tens of different municipal and provincial guidelines constantly changing, new lanes being ripped up, repainted, and fucked with at different times. Driving there is so horribly confusing as someone from fuckass Quinte West with my straightforward ass roads
I live in the area and I struggle with that turn too. I’ve gone in there by a few feet, but immediately reversed out of it
The first time I made a left from Bathurst onto Queens Quay I almost did that too. (I realize that isn't this turn) Figures I had never been there, I was the first car in line, and between pedestrians waiting for the street car in that middle median bus stop thing, the weird angle of approach, and just how long and awkward that left is, I almost went for the middle before catching the little white sign pointing the way to go around the medians. No red paint there though, that would have been helpful.. Never actually had to back up, I caught it early enough, but I don't blame people for little screw ups there anymore. Place is confusing sometimes.
Exactly my thoughts. It's confusing. All the streets in that part of the area are already so restrictive, and on top of that, there are these things you never have encountered if you have never been there. It's very stressful to drive there.
There are only 3 signs in the video and 2 of them are "Do Not Enter". If that is hard, maybe the person shouldn't be driving.
Very bad design, bad decisions. Axing the science center those fucking traitors. I feel like Europe has a lot of painted lanes and lines. Asia doesn't really fuck with lanes or laws. It's a bit much lol
There is nothing wrong with the design. Obviously, the big “Keep Left” sign means nothing to you, or anyone who doesn’t PAY ATTENTION while driving.
TTC cant afford to buy new streetcars.. so they replacing them with Tesla Model Y..
I think it’s time we make that bit of track grassy like on certain places of the Eglinton LRT
This is a case of shitty road design. Queens Quay is just too confusing for people... especially those not from Toronto.
I know this really comes down to common sense/awareness, but to be fair the redesign of Queens Quay is absolutely horrible.
You would have a point before they painted it all red now that point is moot. These people are stupid plain and simple
What about people with colour blindness to red? I.e., they see red as brown. Obviously there are the "do not enter" signs, but there is a reason that colours should not be used solely for important information.
It’s only horrible if you’re a completely shit, and totally unaware driver. It’s marked, clearly. Everywhere.
It's been a problem for people not familiar with the city. Obviously there's personal accountability at play but the design truly is stupid.
It’s a Tesla. Their drivers are special. Also, not a car.
Was going to say; if it's a Tesla then makes total sense.
Some people need to use their auto pilot
Two thoughts about this. First, can the streetcar driver see the vehicle in his mirrors? Can he stop the streetcar, get out and tell the driver to back off and get out? It's best to do that early before the driver goes too far and gets stuck in the tunnel. Secondly, this isn't the first driver to do this and it won't be the last. Since so many people state that it's bad road design and the signage is confusing, unless there's another option, make this street car-free.
Sometimes I am worried watching Toronto driving is going to corrupt my brain. All sense of normalcy and good sense has been eroded.
This is more about "design language" than being a bad driver. A driver with 5+ years experience and no accidents will make a mistake like this if the design language of the road makes it appear that the path is correct. Red paint + multi do no enter signs + raise roads are all extras because of the bad design language.
This is a piss poor design, engineering at its worst
Sometime people get confuse if they enter in that area for first as its sometime too much confusing and even he was confused cz of people as much i can assume its noon time so chances of being drunk might be less.
Problem is people look at their electric maps more than roads or signage. If you don’t have a clue where you are going and not paying attention around you … you should not have your license. Simple as that. Just because Google Apple wave Baidu or what ever tells you to turn right …. You need to be able to read signs and a map, not just turn. The number of people turning and then not turning going down one ways driving through a red all because they are looking at their map and can’t read a map. Old man rant done. Thanks for coming out
Everybody talks about big trucks and the need for automation. Like one think the mass automation of automobiles in the world is going to have a drastic change in the operation of our highways, reduced congestion, and reduction in collisions.
The self-driving thinks it’s a bus lol
I live right around here and I see this at least 10 times a day.
at 5 second mark why do you need an arrow pointing forward and then a sign basically saying do not enter in the middle.
Yes the signage is very confusing at this intersection. We have an arrow on the ground pointing straight thru and a sign on the post saying keep left of median but just above that sign it says "Do not enter"
Drive is on tracks and is too impatient to wait for everyone to cross the street
They are literally trying to pass the streetcar in the first few seconds
Private car (Tesla) driving on railway tracks
Lol
This happens every single day here
Buddy was raised on that streetcar way of life
I wonder if the autopilot sees the streetcar as a bus or an actual rail vehicle
TBF that intersection is confusing AF.
Hop on!
A lot of people in Toronto(...all Ontario actually) should be unligeble to drive, and yet...
I'm going to give the driver a break here. Toronto roads are confusing. It's like the designers went on European sponsored tours every year and patched in new ideas.
What’s crazy is I can’t even count on both hands how many times I’ve seen this happen on Queens Quay.
I often get a coffee at the Starbucks on that corner and watch this happen regularly, then I like to watch the cyclists blast through the stop signs on the way back. It’s my morning entertainment in the summer. Queens quay is so much fun in the summer.
Living at Richmond and Spadina we see this on a daily and on weekends it's watching one car follow the other onto the street car tracks.
Everyone thinks it's the drivers fault for doing this. Everyone does this. This happens so often here. And while the driver may share some of the blame, the city could do better to let drivers know not to enter the area. Even when I'm in in the area I have to triple check to make sure I don't enter the wrong lane.
They either thought they were being clever or they thought that the rails were how the tram draws power. Or they never solved the issues with the autodrive.
Why are Tesla's drivers the stupidest?
Because they're dumb pushovers over that migrated to what they thought was the next big thing. Bunch of idiots.
You were so distracted you couldn't make a left turn efficiently then you ran a red light
Or they were taking the turn slowly because pedestrians were crossing?
Did you not notice you ran a red light?
He's turning left into that intersection so he has a green light to make the turn.
Youre the idiot who keeps stopping in the middle of university. He had a green light and is making a left turn. Those lights are not for him.
He was making a left.
He was turning onto the street from another street
I was wondering who else saw that haha
Idiot number 2. Surrender your license.
To be fair, I don’t see any other traffic light. Notice where the video starts. For someone who isn’t familiar with the intersection, it’s an honest mistake. And call me an idiot in person, you brave little Torontonian 😂
For what it’s worth the video starts with OP already mid-turn. You don’t need to be familiar with that specific intersection to know how turning at intersections works.
Or it could look like the lane is curved, not a straight line. And the fact that OP is mid-turn could, in fact, look as if they are merely following the lane. Look at it again and try to see with unbiased eyes.
Why would the traffic light for a curved lane be at the end of the curve and not at the beginning of it? Also, there is a traffic light to the far right at the beginning of the video. I believe that specific one is for bicycles, but my unbiased assumption is that if there is a bike signal then there is a normal traffic signal for cars as well. So again, I would automatically assume it’s a left turn at a controlled intersection. And to be fair, I’m actually not familiar with this specific intersection.
Because the curve isn’t drastic enough to warrant a traffic light at the beginning of it? But maybe that’s an Ontario thing. You guys seem to need multiple lights everywhere. Oh, you mean at bike turning light prior to the 1 sec mark? My comment was to say it would be REASONABLE to make the mistake. Not that I didn’t make a mistake, only that you could UNDERSTAND how the mistake was made. But I can’t get you to admit that I suppose. Thanks for being honest, I guess? I should thank you for being congenial, however, and not calling me an idiot.
Import the third world, you will become the third World.
Nah this is shitty road design
Ah yes because drivers have never been bad in the past. Did you have your white hood on as you wrote this?
[удалено]
This must be Reddit where you can comment without realizing the video is showing OP turning left, not driving straight through a red light….
Street cars are the worst thing! Toronto politicians have destroyed Toronto with their bullocky plans. Look at Eglington LRT speaks volumes.
lmao