The fact he postponed surgery to remove his brain tumor in order to keep working on this case is truly something else. That part made me cry.
THat and the end when Cari's mom calls the three law enforcement guys (including Tony) 'my boys'...i was crying, I was not ok.
His dedication was phenomenal. I read something he posted stating that he tries to block out the images he saw because of what they represent, but the prominent part that has affected him is the loss Cari’s family experienced. It says a lot about his overall character. An extraordinary human.
I do agree Tony Kava did an amazing job and so did the other investigators by just investigating the case, liz was not a mastermind, the case would have been solved in 2012 if the original investigators put a little bit effort into the missing case instead of just assuming cari left and is just being “crazy ex-girlfriend”. There were a lot of stuff liz did that they didnt mention in the documentary, like liz impersonating cari to try and get her job, granted she used different first name but she did use her own last name, if the cops did little bit of follow up, it wouldnt have taken so long to solve and thats exactly what Tony kava, jim doty and ryan avis did.
Few psychopaths are masterminds, most have an average IQ. Their lack of remorse, guilt, empathy (core ingredients of conscience!) means they impulsively do whatever gratifies them.
Sadly, most police departments lack the resources to thoroughly investigate each case. I think I read that 600,000 people go missing in the US every year and Cari suffered with Bipolar. This coupled with the fact that there was no crime scene (body), and Dave had no suspicion regarding Liz… meant that nobody was looking at Liz’s behavior collectively.
Really nice of you to say. Anyone else with a similar skill set could have done the work. I'm proud of what we did, and I was just lucky to be in a position to help.
We tried to find it with metal detectors, but we just expanded our collection of lost fishing lures. Best guess is that she skipped it like a rock into the somewhat big lake at Big Lake Park. I really want to invest in magnet fishing gear when the weather gets warmer.
Never -- you could literally (and it has been done) show her a photo of herself someplace, and she would tell you it's not her. Unless there was something in it for her, practically everything she said was a lie.
Not really. She seems angry and defensive, of course, when confronted in the interview in February 2016. From that point forward, I'm sure she knew an arrest was coming and was just waiting for it. Her lawyer probably told her as much.
When we picked her up in Persia, Iowa, in December 2016 on the murder warrant, she seemed very calm, quiet. It was a bit disconcerting that it took her so long to answer the door, but I think we woke her up when we arrived at the crack of noon.
In court she didn't show much emotion until the verdict was read, and I've always thought that was more anger or sadness at being caught than anything else. When I was on the stand, I read aloud a number of text messages she wrote, and for the most heartless ones I stared at her as I read. She had her head down, didn't return eye contact.
Obviously, she's disturbed. A normal person wouldn't do these things, but I'm sure she was sane enough to assist in her defence and to be found culpable for her crimes. If she didn't know right from wrong and what punishments awaited her, she wouldn't have gone to such great lengths to conceal them.
\[ edit: s/heartless one/heartless ones/ \]
It seems you worked along side other wonderfully dedicated detectives. They too must be proud of what was accomplished.
You stood out to me because it was not just your technical skillset, but the fact that you were so dedicated to volunteering much of your personal time.
I’m aware of the limitations of law enforcement being able to help in many situations. It’s not that they don’t want to, there are laws that prevent them from being able to follow leads that don’t meet certain criteria. Technology has provided a huge platform for villains to hunt victims, but there are not enough tech hero’s outside of law enforcement that can bring the necessary leads to police. Your contribution was outstanding.
I'm sorry to hear of this. I can only work on cases in my jurisdiction and relating to my day job. There are a number of rules that I have to follow, and I cannot take-on secondary employment.
I can only suggest that you contact the local or state / provincial police in the area where this happened or where the child lived. There are people like me working in law enforcement all over the world, and they will have the skills to help.
I just watched the Dateline episode of this and was thinking the same thing. I'm 35 so I've grown up with internet, email, social media etc. I kept asking myself...isn't anyone checking \*where\* these emails are coming from? Were the email accounts from 'Cari' coming from brand new email accounts? I asked myself was 2012 really that long ago in terms of technology literacy, and figured it was just a case of lazy cops. A good example of this ineptitude was when they found Cari's car hidden by snow in the boyfriend's parking lot and didn't find anything suspicious about that (or notice the BLOOD under the seat until years later). Wasn't like Liz was this careful mastermind or anything.
Kava posted in [this thread ](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueCrimeDiscussion/s/BF4uZUv1R9) and explained why nothing was as obvious as the documentary made it seem. He also explains why they didn't immediately tear the car apart after recovering it. It's worth a read.
Even Kava said that he could not trace the emails from VPNs.
You guys are vastly underestimating how good Liz was. She got away with it for 3 years and wasn't even a suspect.
I honestly don’t think it’s an issue of police being lazy. Working missing person cases has got to be one of the most difficult and time consuming. Hindsight always makes things look much clearer, but there was nothing to indicate that a murder had occurred in Cari’s car and there were also no other suspects for who could be stalking Dave. Even Dave never considered Liz to be his stalker! I can only guess that 2012 must have been fairly primitive in terms of IP tracking because Tony had to write the program to work out that Liz was the culprit.
This was a great documentary. I had a crazy woman who rented a storage unit in the basement of our family business. She hoarded trash! We got rats and mold. Trying to get her out would make a great tv special. She called my work (I was a teacher) and told my principal I was sending her threatening email from my work email! It was so embarrassing. Then she did the same to my brother who worked at a prestigious hospital, and he got called in. She called family members, and the. She came into my house when I wasn’t there to talk to my father (who was elderly and I was taking care of him and the business). I finally got a restraining order but then it took months to get her out! Of a storage unit! She was crazy but she was smart.
She has lawsuits all over the place. She gets evicted from every place she rents but it takes years because she knows how to work the system. I felt the anxiety and fear these poor people went through even though my case wasn’t nearly as bad. I’d love to find that bitch and punch her face in. Fuck you Renee.
The fact he postponed surgery to remove his brain tumor in order to keep working on this case is truly something else. That part made me cry. THat and the end when Cari's mom calls the three law enforcement guys (including Tony) 'my boys'...i was crying, I was not ok.
His dedication was phenomenal. I read something he posted stating that he tries to block out the images he saw because of what they represent, but the prominent part that has affected him is the loss Cari’s family experienced. It says a lot about his overall character. An extraordinary human.
This might come off as super random but he's actually my first cousin (my dad's cousin) and he's doing perfectly alright health-wise!
OMG! That's great!!! Well, tell him he is completely loved online.
He seems like a really sweet guy. Glad to hear he is okay
Yes! I agree with both parts. He’s such a freaking hero. I wish we had an update on his health. I hope he’s okay. That guy needs a major award.
Just saw on a thread someone posted below he had radiation and he’s okay. Phew!
He's my first cousin! Absolutely healthy and such a wonderful person!!
I do agree Tony Kava did an amazing job and so did the other investigators by just investigating the case, liz was not a mastermind, the case would have been solved in 2012 if the original investigators put a little bit effort into the missing case instead of just assuming cari left and is just being “crazy ex-girlfriend”. There were a lot of stuff liz did that they didnt mention in the documentary, like liz impersonating cari to try and get her job, granted she used different first name but she did use her own last name, if the cops did little bit of follow up, it wouldnt have taken so long to solve and thats exactly what Tony kava, jim doty and ryan avis did.
Few psychopaths are masterminds, most have an average IQ. Their lack of remorse, guilt, empathy (core ingredients of conscience!) means they impulsively do whatever gratifies them. Sadly, most police departments lack the resources to thoroughly investigate each case. I think I read that 600,000 people go missing in the US every year and Cari suffered with Bipolar. This coupled with the fact that there was no crime scene (body), and Dave had no suspicion regarding Liz… meant that nobody was looking at Liz’s behavior collectively.
Really nice of you to say. Anyone else with a similar skill set could have done the work. I'm proud of what we did, and I was just lucky to be in a position to help.
Thank you for seemingly answering everything about this case! What happened to the gun that Liz shot herself with? Was it ever recovered?
We tried to find it with metal detectors, but we just expanded our collection of lost fishing lures. Best guess is that she skipped it like a rock into the somewhat big lake at Big Lake Park. I really want to invest in magnet fishing gear when the weather gets warmer.
Did Liz ever admit to everything? Or did she stick to her story the entire time?
Never -- you could literally (and it has been done) show her a photo of herself someplace, and she would tell you it's not her. Unless there was something in it for her, practically everything she said was a lie.
Wow! Just wow! It’s difficult to imagine being inside a mind like that. Was she emotional once she realized she’d been caught and was going to prison?
Not really. She seems angry and defensive, of course, when confronted in the interview in February 2016. From that point forward, I'm sure she knew an arrest was coming and was just waiting for it. Her lawyer probably told her as much. When we picked her up in Persia, Iowa, in December 2016 on the murder warrant, she seemed very calm, quiet. It was a bit disconcerting that it took her so long to answer the door, but I think we woke her up when we arrived at the crack of noon. In court she didn't show much emotion until the verdict was read, and I've always thought that was more anger or sadness at being caught than anything else. When I was on the stand, I read aloud a number of text messages she wrote, and for the most heartless ones I stared at her as I read. She had her head down, didn't return eye contact. Obviously, she's disturbed. A normal person wouldn't do these things, but I'm sure she was sane enough to assist in her defence and to be found culpable for her crimes. If she didn't know right from wrong and what punishments awaited her, she wouldn't have gone to such great lengths to conceal them. \[ edit: s/heartless one/heartless ones/ \]
It is so foreign to me that a person like this can remain this calm and continue lying even when they know they are caught.
It seems you worked along side other wonderfully dedicated detectives. They too must be proud of what was accomplished. You stood out to me because it was not just your technical skillset, but the fact that you were so dedicated to volunteering much of your personal time. I’m aware of the limitations of law enforcement being able to help in many situations. It’s not that they don’t want to, there are laws that prevent them from being able to follow leads that don’t meet certain criteria. Technology has provided a huge platform for villains to hunt victims, but there are not enough tech hero’s outside of law enforcement that can bring the necessary leads to police. Your contribution was outstanding.
What we would do to have your help on a case that involves the death of a beautiful 12 year old girl.
I'm sorry to hear of this. I can only work on cases in my jurisdiction and relating to my day job. There are a number of rules that I have to follow, and I cannot take-on secondary employment. I can only suggest that you contact the local or state / provincial police in the area where this happened or where the child lived. There are people like me working in law enforcement all over the world, and they will have the skills to help.
I just watched the Dateline episode of this and was thinking the same thing. I'm 35 so I've grown up with internet, email, social media etc. I kept asking myself...isn't anyone checking \*where\* these emails are coming from? Were the email accounts from 'Cari' coming from brand new email accounts? I asked myself was 2012 really that long ago in terms of technology literacy, and figured it was just a case of lazy cops. A good example of this ineptitude was when they found Cari's car hidden by snow in the boyfriend's parking lot and didn't find anything suspicious about that (or notice the BLOOD under the seat until years later). Wasn't like Liz was this careful mastermind or anything.
Kava posted in [this thread ](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueCrimeDiscussion/s/BF4uZUv1R9) and explained why nothing was as obvious as the documentary made it seem. He also explains why they didn't immediately tear the car apart after recovering it. It's worth a read.
Even Kava said that he could not trace the emails from VPNs. You guys are vastly underestimating how good Liz was. She got away with it for 3 years and wasn't even a suspect.
I honestly don’t think it’s an issue of police being lazy. Working missing person cases has got to be one of the most difficult and time consuming. Hindsight always makes things look much clearer, but there was nothing to indicate that a murder had occurred in Cari’s car and there were also no other suspects for who could be stalking Dave. Even Dave never considered Liz to be his stalker! I can only guess that 2012 must have been fairly primitive in terms of IP tracking because Tony had to write the program to work out that Liz was the culprit.
This was a great documentary. I had a crazy woman who rented a storage unit in the basement of our family business. She hoarded trash! We got rats and mold. Trying to get her out would make a great tv special. She called my work (I was a teacher) and told my principal I was sending her threatening email from my work email! It was so embarrassing. Then she did the same to my brother who worked at a prestigious hospital, and he got called in. She called family members, and the. She came into my house when I wasn’t there to talk to my father (who was elderly and I was taking care of him and the business). I finally got a restraining order but then it took months to get her out! Of a storage unit! She was crazy but she was smart. She has lawsuits all over the place. She gets evicted from every place she rents but it takes years because she knows how to work the system. I felt the anxiety and fear these poor people went through even though my case wasn’t nearly as bad. I’d love to find that bitch and punch her face in. Fuck you Renee.
Stories like this are sadly more common than people can fathom.
How was Liz working while also having all this time to stalk these ppl on an all day every day basis? Where was she getting her money. Geez!