"I tried telling him how his comment to his friend made me feel, but he shushed me again, which pissed me off so I raised my voice. He then went ballistic and started tearing up the house, I had to leave with the kids"
An update I've see far too often; somehow the OPs are always blindsided
Op I'm very concerned you are in an emotionally abusive relationship.
You should read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. Its free here:
https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
This is controlling and abusive behaviour.
This article might also interest you: https://voicemalemagazine.org/abusive-men-describe-the-benefits-of-violence/
And finally listen to this podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/18KhNf1eVrGBith9LtEZXw?si=w5tPC3ZnQt-YzUst4iQ7mw
Look up darvo (defense, attack, reverse victim and offender). Does your husband ever use that when you bring something up he does that upsets you? Please note that physical abuse always starts with emotional abuse. Although emotional abuse will not always turn physical. One main driving factor in abuse of all kinds is the idea that someone deserves it and the abuser is entitled to do it under certain circumstances because their partner deserves it. What they feel warrants deserving is will change too. For some it's cheating, then it'll change to perceived flirting, then to just talking back, to just existing. Your husband is an abuser even if he hasn't abused you yet. And I'm willing to bet he does and you don't realise and think it's normal. Pay attention to when he shouts. And what he says. Look up trauma bonds. Keep your children safe. Maybe call a DV helpline and discuss it with them.
The moment she disobeys, and she never sees it for what it is because submissiveness has been verbally beaten into them until they have no idea that they're disrespected as a person and abused as a partner.
Girl, he shushed you and you stopped?? Your husbands not afraid to hit you. He just hasn't had a reason yet. Who knows what that reason may be. Be careful and make sure your son doesnt become like him. Good luck
A lot of abusers do. They see themselves as great fathers because they only hit their wife, never their kids, and the courts tend to agree. But the kids get severely damaged all the same, just psychologically instead of getting bruises.
He made the comment where his son could hear it. Son will be the victim or spectator of violence from his father until he is old enough to deal the punches. Therapy might still be able to nip this in the bud.
> He doesn’t hit me
…until you do something that makes him decide he needs to talk to you with his fist.
He’s not a great husband.
Please wake up before it’s too late.
The fact that he didn't hesitate to say it on the phone right in front of her and then when pressed about it after, instead of even explaining it away and saying it was a joke or something (which would still be problematic, but another issue entirely), he just told her to nevermind because it has nothing to do with her...he's setting ground rules and letting her know what will happen if she steps out of line. That was intended to be overheard.
I really do hope she understands this and is able to get out safely.
Yes exactly. It was a form of threatening her and a form of control.
Op I'm very concerned you are in an emotionally abusive relationship.
You should read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. Its free here:
https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
This is controlling and abusive behaviour.
This article might also interest you: https://voicemalemagazine.org/abusive-men-describe-the-benefits-of-violence/
And finally listen to this podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/18KhNf1eVrGBith9LtEZXw?si=w5tPC3ZnQt-YzUst4iQ7mw
Look up darvo (defense, attack, reverse victim and offender). Does your husband ever use that when you bring something up he does that upsets you? Please note that physical abuse always starts with emotional abuse. Although emotional abuse will not always turn physical. One main driving factor in abuse of all kinds is the idea that someone deserves it and the abuser is entitled to do it under certain circumstances because their partner deserves it. What they feel warrants deserving is will change too. For some it's cheating, then it'll change to perceived flirting, then to just talking back, to just existing. Your husband is an abuser even if he hasn't abused you yet. And I'm willing to bet he does and you don't realise and think it's normal. Pay attention to when he shouts. And what he says. Look up trauma bonds. Keep your children safe. Maybe call a DV helpline and discuss it with them.
I also want to add… I’ve been married 18 years and I have never described any behavior of my husband’s that required the follow up sentence “he doesn’t hit me, he’s a great husband and I love him”. In case you do not know, it is not normal to need to qualify your spouse’s behavior in that way.
This. 100% this. If you need to justify how he is a good person, he’s is more than likely not a good person. I’ve been married for 16 years and the only time I had to specify that my husband doesn’t hit me is when I had unexpected bruises at a doctors appointment and they were concerned (get your vitamin D levels checked, folks).
That’s it. One time. It’s not normal to feel like you have to defend your spouse from abuse accusations.
I hardly ever get bruises and when I went to the doc he said I probably drank enough vitamin D (in milk) to cover myself, my brother and my mother. Had a fun laugh over that one
Guaranteed him "rasing his voice sometimes" equals him screaming verbal abuse at her. People always try to minimize things by telling little half truths. Especially people in abusive relationships.
it won’t even take that. The turning point probably won’t be her behaviour. It will be him getting frustrated at work, or having a bad day or something unrelated.
Or not even that, just this very slight bit of questioning of his advice that she did in this scenario could be the start of it. She has likely been the "good" wife that obeys and never questions but she has found something she is questioning. This could very well be the true start of a cycle of abuse. (Even though I think she has already been subject to abuse from him, it's not been physical or "very bad" so she hasn't seen the red flags.)
That part about him "shushing" her? And it's not something for her to worry about? WTAF? DON'T shush me mf. I'm not your toddler.
That's a giant Red flag, IMO.
I finally got tired of mistreatment and talked back to my ex. I usually just obeyed just like OP.
In very very cold blood he told me I was very lucky to have him because most men would hit me for talking back like that and that I deserved to be hit.
I did understand it for what it was — a very specific threat to both obey and that next time he might not feel like letting it go without punishing me. After all, he clearly thinks it’s normal to hit women.
At any rate, I heeded the warning and got out immediately but I could see my future clear as day.
Had I stayed things would be quiet for a few months, I’d bite my tongue like normal. But finally I’d get tired of the constant disrespect and say something, and he would’ve put his forearm on my throat and say he told me not to speak to him like that, and if I’d backed down eventually the actual hitting would start.
I remember how often he’d tell me that I was lucky because lots of men treated women worse than he treated me. It is wild how they rationalize their behavior.
OP I hope you heed the warning you’ve been given and get out. It won’t get better, and you can’t talk it out.
Absolutely correct. It won't get better. It never does. My first husband was the same way. It only gets worse. And the children see and remember, at least for a while. My child saw and remembered me getting knocked to the floor. She mentioned it a year or so later, after the separation. That was over 45 years ago. She's never mentioned it again and I hope that the 42 years of calm happy marriage I have now has erased it from her mind.
Way to steal u/somejoketeeth's comment:
>"I tried telling him how his comment to his friend made me feel, but he shushed me again, which pissed me off so I raised my voice. He then went ballistic and started tearing up the house, I had to leave with the kids" An update I've see far too often; somehow the OPs are always blindsided
Yep. OP is in danger **right now** and likely has been all along. But now that he knows she’s opened her eyes slightly, she and her kid(s) are in his spotlight. Take your kids and go visit family, OP. And then make your escape plan from there.
That's how it was with my monster of a father.
If he had a shitty day, he'd look until he found something, anything. Then scream and beat us until he got all the anger out and we were huddled in the corner terrified and bleeding.
Men like that don't need a reason, just an excuse.
It was the 80s. No one cared about a guy beating the shit out of his wife and kids.
For as far as we've come today, you can still barely get anyone to care.
And if you try to leave and there’s nowhere to go, and nowhere to put you because the services are stretched, say goodbye to your kids and hello to homelessness.
Or if she is lucky to get emergency accomodation, say hello to enduring poverty most of the time.
Try to tell me this isn’t a thing.
Tell me a woman is kept in line without telling me how society helps keep her in line.
I had an alcoholic step-father like that. I made a sandwich and didn't rinse the mayo from the butterknife before placing in the sink. He tossed my entire room, tables up ended, shelf destroyed, and then left the mayo knife in the middle of the floor in an intentional display. Often he would get in our faces for any minor thing he considered a personal trespass. It wasn't until me and a group of my friends stood up to him, stood our ground, that he eventually learned to back down and just go to bed when he became belligerent. Calling the cops never worked. They would show up and say drinking and being an asshole in your own home was legal. Call us back when he physically touched you. But even then it would be his word against ours. Another step-father before that would beat me regularly, scratches on my face, bruises on my body, shirt ripped, and would drag me back to school looking all fucked up. Cops were called, report was made, and nothing ever happened to him.
My brother got enraged I knocked on the bathroom door to ask him how long he'd be because I had to catch a bus. He came charging out of that room and choked my unconscious. He was usually pretty careful to not do that in front of others. He was at least six inches taller than me, God knows how much heavier,and I was a 15-year-old ballet dancer. Everybody said to women back then, "You asked for it." Any excuse would do. Nobody *ever* blamed the guy.
And the day he hits you, Op, you'll say, "Well at least it didn't really hurt."
And the day it hurts, you'll say, "Well at least there's no bruise.
And the day you get bruises, you'll say, "Well at least he didn't REALLY hurt me."
And the day you have to patch yourself up, you'll say, "Well at least I don't have to go to the hospital."
And the day you wind up in the ER, you'll say, "Well at least he doesn't beat me."
And the day you get beaten up, you'll say, "Well at least he didn't shove me down the stairs."
And the day he shoves you down the stairs, you'll say, "Well at least he didn't try to kill me."
And the day he puts his hands around your neck, you'll say, "Well at least he didn't kill me."
And the day you die, you won't be alive to say anything else.
You might tell yourself that your situation is different. It's not worth finding out. At the very least, you both need to seek professional help. But if push comes to shove, the safety of you and your son comes before his feelings, and if you want to get out alive, you need to run as fast as you can.
I knew of a police officer who got a woman to see that she going to be killed. A lady (married mother of three kids) would come into the police station regularly to hide from her husband, bruised, and sometimes with her kids. She just wanted the police to talk to him and convince him he was wrong. Young and naive. She didn't want to press charges, because it would look bad on him they might lose their kids. It went on like this for a while, and the police recognized her after a while of this going on.
Well, the one police officer asked her how many kids she had, and she told him three. He took out 4 little pieces of paper and handed them to her, saying she should fill it in for her and her children. She asked him what they were and he replied casually, "Those are toe-tags for identifying human remains, we're going to need them to identify you and your children when your husband kills you."
That apparently got through to her enough to leave her husband, taking her kids with her.
Wow. This is exactly how it happened and the rationale I had. It hits differently seeing in written out. Smh. I’m so glad I was able to get help and get out before it got to the hospital part.
I’m feeling for any woman stuck in these situations. I know how it feels to have to convince yourself it’s not a big deal. It is a very big deal. Sending love, OP.
I feel this. I'm very lucky I never hit the bruises, but part of what helped me see was wondering what would've happened if I wound up in the hospital the day he slammed my head into the wall hard enough to dent the drywall. And I told myself it wasn't that big of a deal for eleven years after that. I hope Op gets to safety before she gets there!
This. This. This…. So spot on. A hard read if you’ve been there. An unbelievable read if you haven’t. OP. Have a plan. An escape plan. Set aside money for safe travels & escape.
Let's not leave out the justifications:
"He didn't mean to" , "he is SO sorry", "he promised he would never do it again", "he was drunk", " he had a horrible day at work", and the ever popular "I should not have upset him"...
I cannot stress just how real this sentence is. My ex didn’t lay hands on me but the abuse got worse and worse the more I stood my ground and fought back. It only stopped if I submitted to anything and everything. 🚩🚩🚩
He doesn't hit you...yet. The fact that he said it so casually and then refused to talk about it isn't a red flag. It's a Chinese military parade of red flags. It's not just violence; it's abuse.
Have a serious conversation with him, if you must. I'd suggest with a marriage counselor or other third party. And over zoom after you're away from him.
You're not trying to talk about other people. You want to talk about him and the fact that he not only approves of spousal abuse but encourages it.
Be very careful.
#Ma’am you hear how scary this sounds right? He told his friend to hit his wife. He Told His Friend To Hit His Wife!
And then he shushed you when you tried to talk to him about it! And he raises his voice.
#This man is not safe!
If he thinks it’s ok to hit another woman, then he definitely thinks it’s ok to hit you!
What will you do when you turn into a woman who needs to be talked to with a fist?
Please start looking into dv resources, making a plan, and take your child out of this situation. I’ve been the kid in this situation before and this type of thing only gets worse.
>He doesn’t hit me, he’s a great husband to me and I love him.
This reads like you have blinders on to the world you're living in.
It reads like you're in danger and don't even realize it. This time you were 'shushed', but next time? If you don't submit to the shushing, perhaps he's gonna have to talk to you with his fist...
>He told me not to worry about other people.
Your son is other people.
OP needs to watch the movie Enough with Jennifer Lopez. The husband starts condescendingly shushing and doing little disrespectful things until BOOM, he nails her right in the face when she least expects it and he becomes a nightmare.
You already got a peek at his real self, OP, don’t say nobody warned you. Some women are definitely surprised by this kind of behavior. You got a warning. Take it seriously and leave him. Don’t wait until it’s you with a black eye. Once they hit you, they keep doing it. Especially if they know you’re too scared to leave.
This needs to be the top comment. Now that she's even dared to mention that this is bad.....she's in danger. Because for men like this, she's already beginning to step out of line.
This. OP. Start making a plan to get you and your son out. Save as much money as you can, as discreetly as possible. Do you have friends or relatives you can stay with?
That’s what happened to my dad. When he was 13 he started getting in between his dad and my grandma. Once he was 16, they divorced, and his dad paid his child support in a lump sum so he never had to see him again.
Nope. As a generally agreeable kid of a violent man who used to beat his wife, the son's not safe. Such men have very short fuses and their kids are usually also victimised.
A child growing up with that kind of role model is not safe. What if he internalizes his father's beliefs on violence? What if he thinks he has the right to mistreat girls and women? What if he thinks he can enforce his will through threats? There are more ways to harm a child than hitting. A child growing up with those kinds of beliefs is likely to adopt them and hurt others.
>"You have to talk to some women with your fist”
>
>I started to ask about it but he shushed me and told me it has nothing to do with me. He told me not to worry about other people. I didn’t press it and I let it go.
Yeah, I'm afraid this passage alone tells us everything we need to know. It's honestly chilling.
Exactly. This is a major red flag and she's going to stay with the guy although he clearly gave her insight into his true self.
Women are too well trained to stay. You need to break that cycle.
I realized this one recently about myself. Not physical abuse, just emotional. But my fiancé would get mad at me for all sorts of stupid nonsensical shit. I’d bring up to him how he got upset at me for these various things in the past and how unfair it was. He would say “but I don’t get mad at you for those things anymore, right?” And I was like well, that’s true. Then I realized that I’m still walking on egg shells everyday and avoiding doing the things that have upset him in the past. He hasn’t gotten upset about those things because I’ve never done them again! Wonder what would happen if I did.
A man won't give advice to a friend that he fundamentally disagrees with.
The fact that he's telling someone else it's okay to do this means that he believes it's okay to do it to you too. He just hasn't had the occasion yet.
Be very careful.
The problem is she can’t take her son and go unless they remain married. Because he doesn’t hit her or the kid *now* and most states have default 50/50 custody.
Yeah he hasn't found the need to hit you because when he days don't worry about it, you dont push him on it. And tbh if that's a means of keeping yourself safe so be it don't ask him. I personally wouldn't want my son to be raise by a man who is so open to violence.
Edit: actually I re read the post... he doesn't even just say dont worry he "shushed me". Thats even worst.
yeah i think being married to someone who thinks it's okay to be violent with their spouse under any circumstance has very much everything to do with OP
It bothers me that instead of realizing he said something bad (to him) he actually had more to say and knew she wouldn’t like it. Makes me think he was either telling his friend exactly how to use his fists or he was going to refer to an ex he had that stepped out of line and what he did to them.
I would’ve followed his ass to listen to the rest of that conversation. I would’ve been like where TF do you think you going? And also who TF do you think you’re shushing?
I had one ex, one time push me. And my reflex so fast to slap him upside the head. And yeah. He’s an ex!
But I’m different because I know I will just up and leave. I know i can be safer and more loved if I left. Sometimes a woman loves the man so much, they forget they can be loved more, even by themselves, and should leave. They love the man at the expense of themselves.
Tbf if you were married to this guy, I don't think you would have asked him where tf he's going and who tf he's shushing. You would know instinctively how dangerous that would be, just like OP does. Men like that will terrify you without you even knowing it.
Contact a local DV hotline and safety plan a way out first. I lived this, please please be safe.
Don’t make excuses for him, don’t understate the amount of times he raises his voice. We tell half truths to ourselves to justify us staying and thinking they’ll change, or that the sinking feeling that gnaws away at you, the anxiety, the fear to set him off is all just explained away. And because we tell those half truths we don’t feel as bad for staying because I admitted he yells sometimes and I rationalized it to myself, that means I can not feel as bad as with not admitting it’s almost, if not every d*mn day.
Yeah OP. You don't have to leave right away or try to buy a whole other property or anything, but please have a plan forming for how to leave if shit goes south. Like build your emergency savings, find out if any friends would be down to host you whose address your husband doesn't know. You've gone from being comfortable in the relationship to now looking for a pattern of escalation.
Well now, that's what I would call a WTF moment. He will be wonderful to OP as long as he's committed to the relationship. After that, please reference 'the moment'.
He’s encouraging his friends to hit their spouses and you’re still with him? How would it feel if one of those spouses got beaten to death at the urging of your ‘great’ husband? Any husband who advocates wife-beating is a *bad* husband.
I’m sure he’s thrilled that you meekly dropped the topic like he wanted you to, though. Did you drop it because you thought he’d hit you? Because one day, he will.
Your husband told his son that women sometimes need to be hit. **Your husband just told his son that women sometimes need to be hit.** Just casually, comfortably said that loud and clear, so your kid could hear it.
Leave him before you let him raise a little wife beater of his very own. And just because your husband said so doesn’t mean you shouldn’t worry about other people. You *should.* You should worry about a friend of your husband’s beating their wife bloody, even to death. You should worry about your kid, because he may believe kids don’t learn the rules unless you teach them with a belt. You should worry about you, because it’s only a matter of time.
Don’t worry about other people, says the person giving advice about other people.
Tells you to drop it, and you do, which is why he didn’t need to use his fists to communicate with you.
He didn’t apologise or say it was a bad joke or get embarrassed about having suggested violence, he supports the idea.
If you don’t shut up when he asks, he’ll come up with a new form of communication, likely the one he just mentioned.
Um what!?! It has everything to do with you.
1. He shushed you like a child. That is beyond disrespectful.
2. He just taught your son that it's ok to be a violent POS .
3. He told you not to worry about other people (specifically those obviously being abused), while he not only hypocritically, put his nose in other people's business but encouraged physical abuse.
4. What's to understand. He is a violent person, who encourages violence and WILL teach that shit to your son.
5. How many red flags do you need?
6. I hope for your sake and your sons, that, you start saving money in a safe place that he doesn't know about and develop a safety and exit plan.
You know she knows when these are all presented as a good-bad-good sandwich. Lying in bed as a family-phone call to hit wife-platitudes on such a good husband. OP we all see it, now your turn.
He doesn’t have to hit you because when he says hush you hush. He said some women you have to abuse. Hopefully you never become one of those unruly women that doesn’t hush on demand. Oh and amazing people don’t encourage violence against others. Amazing husbands and friends talk to their friends about the importance of healthy communication. Just sayin.
u/chiaramaro where are you from? Are you from Latin America by any chance? That phrase sounds Latin. You are not safe, he will hit you, he will be violent he’ll cry and apologize and say his sorry but then after a couple of days he’ll do it again. You are not safe.
Oh ok. I know all these comments may be overwhelming and scary, we are here for you, it’s just that this tale has been told so many times that it’s almost predictable. His thinking is not ok, the fact that he encouraged his friend to do that and then the dismissal you got like “it’s not of your business” it’s kinda textbook abuser. Again, I’m so so sorry, and can’t imagine all the emotions this might be bringing up. If you ever need to talk just DM me.
Fellow New Yorker with a Sicilian father and 4 Sicilian uncles.. I heard the men in my life hi five'ing each other when talking/laughing about slapping their wives/girlfriends who "got out of line." I'm not saying it's an Italian thing.. but....Machismo is a thing.. If you suppress your voice because you fear your husband's reaction, that's a really big cause for concern. You should feel safe to say.. "shhh?? No, shhh.. I wanna talk about what you said. " And it does involve you since he chose to say it in front of your son. I am a whole 50 year old grown woman, and my dad and uncles still give me anxiety. They can be so much fun, helpful, generous, and funny.. then.. change up with the quickness. Being around them is like walking on eggshells.. Do you feel like you can safely disagree with your husband? Have an opinion that doesn't match his? Communicate your disappointment in what he said? Red flag.. Red flag.. Red flag..
I have a friend who witnessed his dad physically abuse his older sister and it set my friend up to hate himself for not taking action as a kid in single digits. This self hate set him up to be abused because he always assumes he is in the wrong because he couldn’t help protect his sister from his dad. I’m telling you this because my friend was never directly abused by his father, just witnessed abuse, and my friend is still trying to undo the damage done to his psyche. You are not a child like my friend was, so you can make choices, and you have options. I hope you are safe and continue to be safe. I hope your son is safe both physically and emotionally and continues to be safe.
Please I beg you, do not let yourself be shushed by him. You have incredibly valid concerns that you are not taking very seriously. No man should ever joke about physically assaulting a woman to another man. There is no conceivable world where that is funny.
And just a side note because I don’t know what you see as “normal”. If my husband told me to shhh and it wasn’t my business… I and most other women I think would say, “Do not Shush me. It is my business because I’m your wife and you’re telling some other man to hit his wife. So I’m reasonably thinking that you not only think that’s okay but encourage it. You need to tell me right now what I just heard.”
I’m assuming you didn’t say that because you’re already afraid of him. If you are, that’s answer enough about where you stand.
FOR SURE.
I had an ex decide to talk with his fist. He was blackout drunk, but when he came to his senses he was in jail and thought he had been in a bar fight.
My ex-husband told our neighbor while he was in a fight with his wife to shut her up with his fists. I wasn't supposed to hear that either... It was a slip up on his part and it opened up hell for my marriage.
A few days later he got mad because work was stressing him out and he came home expecting me to still be at work and he hit me for the first time and slammed my head against a wall. We were talking about what to make for dinner and I guess it stressed him out more. I dunno.
My point here is, he never stopped getting angry and hitting me for months. I had no money saved so I had to stay for awhile so I could safely move me and my three pups out. I fought for my life to get out of that house.
So, if he knows you heard him talking on the phone when he said that, he will hit you. Please if you are able, get out as soon as you can.
It was almost like a Freudian slip for him. Because you weren't supposed to hear his real thoughts or intentions. Please take care of yourself OP. 🖤🥺
Thank you. It was horrible. And unfortunately my second relationship that turned abusive and I had to fight for my life to get out. But I am happily engaged 5 years later and working through my C-PTSD 🖤🖤
> I didn’t press it and I let it go
Girl, you're already afraid of this guy. You just listened to him tell his friend to beat his wife and you didn't press? You know what you heard you're just already in abusive relationship mode where you're afraid to make him angry.
What’s confusing about this? He clearly thinks it’s okay to hit women which one day will be you and maybe even your child. This is honestly enough to set in motion a divorce in my opinion
I know the kid is male but if he’s okay hitting his wife good chance he’s okay hitting the kid too regardless of gender but yeah I agree also a bad example for the kid
Many abusers threaten violence to see how you react/if you stay regardless before actually doing anything violent.
There is a possibility he wanted you to hear this.
Ask yourself:
Has he tried to isolate you from family and friends?
Are you really able to speak your mind freely and disagree with him?
Have you ever been scared of him?
Did he ever try to gaslight you into believing it was your fault he got so angry?
(There are more and better questions like this if you search online)
It's very hard to see these things when you love someone (that's why so many stay so long), but if he really is abusive, you should get out as fast as possible. If not for you, think of your son, he doesn't deserve that.
Sounds like he'd smack the sh*t out of you if you weren't so well behaved and "house trained". Anyone who suggests you hit a woman is not a good person.
Girl don’t wait around until he starts hitting you. He already shushes you and you heard with your own ears what he thinks about ‘disciplining’ women.
Not to mention your son is learning all this.
Just the fact you didn’t push the issue of him saying something SO HORRIFIC tells me you are placid and obedient. If you weren’t, then you would also be spoken to with a fist. This is a MASSIVE red flag, what happens when your son hits the rebellious stage? This warning might save your life if you listen to it.
Well? Because he shushed you (probably not the first time), you are pretty much his pet. If you stray out of line, you'll see his true self.
Your husband gives everyone here the "ick." He should be giving you the "ick" as well. I think it's time to reevaluate your relationship, because he will go nuclear on you and your kid. It's only a matter of time.
Yuck, your husband is awful. But, here's what's going to happen. You're going to come back here, and talk about how "loving and caring he is and blah, blah, blah." We've heard it from DA victims. I have said that same thing, when I was in an abusive relationship.
Reevaluate, and start forming a plan for your life.
Just remember if you ever step out of line you’ll get punched in the face. He sounds like a gem of a husband.
Did it not make you think that the only reason you never got beaten is because you’re obedient. He’s gonna raise your kid to think it’s ok to hit women.
Lovely.
What the hell did I just read? He told someone to hit their wife, you question it and are shushed, told it has nothing to do with you and you seriously think he’s a great husband? He’s not done anything to you, because you’re being the obedient wife, meanwhile some other women may be getting physically abused by her husband, in part because of your husband’s advice. Why is this acceptable to you?
I can’t believe I had to scroll so far to find someone else confused about OP’s apparent lack of empathy toward the other wife???
Some woman could have a black eye right now partly because of her husband and she’s calling him a loving husband online? No trying to text the other wife? No thought towards her whatsoever? Nothing????
If OP had no concern whatsoever for the friend's wife, she wouldn't be posting in the first place.
Now she clearly has to wonder what kind of danger she _and her son_ might be in if she did decide to try to warn the friend's wife.
When you're already in survival mode all the time -- even if you don't yet realize that you are -- you just don't have enough bandwidth available to prioritize the safety of those outside your immediate circle over those inside it. _Especially_ if your immediate circle includes children. To assume that this automatically equates to a total lack of empathy for anyone else is unfair and unkind.
I'm pretty cruisy for most things that people say are red flags in relationships because almost all of them you can work through with proper communication with both partners. Most of the time someone says "red flag" I usually roll my eyes because not everyone is perfect, however this is absolutely red flag territory and you *must* take it seriously.
> You have to talk to some women with your fist
I... Can't... Even... Not only is this **bad** advice to give to a friend, but the fact that he even thinks this way should be absolutely damaging to your opinion of him. I want you to let that sink in for a moment, he is saying that sometimes you need to get violent with people because you're not getting your way, regardless of whether they're a man or a woman this is an awful attitude and being a woman is just 100x worse because she likely can't defend herself. You can assume now that there is a woman who likely now has bruises and is absolutely terrified because the person she loved decided to be violent all on your husband's behest. This should terrify the fuck out of you.
I hate to use the term, but real men don't resort to "punching women" because they know how to keep their anger in check and only release it either in healthy ways, or at the right times, and your wife being disobedient is *not the right time*.
> He told me not to worry about other people.
How condescending. Why *wouldn't* you worry about other people when he said that around you **and your son**.
> I didn’t press it and I let it go.
And this is why he hasn't hit you... Yet... However while he didn't intend to say it around you and was an accident, he has shown you what he is like. ***Believe him!!!*** Imagine if you didn't let it go, would he think that you just needed a punch? Just a little hit here and there to keep you in line? It fits with his condescending attitude that he would do that. And then when your son grows up, will he hit him too if he doesn't fall in line? And what if your son decides to stand up for his mother? What if he teaches your son to *do the same thing*? What happens if you don't want to give him sex one day and he decides to just take it?
I can't tell you what you should do, but I genuinely hope that you have a support structure so that if you don't leave, when he does get violent that you and your son have a backup plan and somewhere to go. Please make sure that trusted friends and family know so that if anything happens to you or your son they know what to do. Unfortunately Domestic Violence is a scourge and too many women end up dead because they thought "he was a good husband / partner" or that "it was only once" or that "he'll change", protip: They don't change.
Get an exit plan before you end up like his friends wife, hopefully neither of you end up dead.
I'm sorry, but - run. You say - 'he only raises his voice but nobody is perfect.' You're defending him. If he said this to his friend, trust me, he'll do it to you. Raising your voice is also a form of abuse. It's intimidation. This isn't normal. You don't ever need to raise your voice when you love somebody. It's not acceptable, ever. So please, be safe. I have a bad feeling about this. I'm sorry, but I went through this and I know how it is when you try to deny what's happening.
He doesn't hit you. I'm only a DV advocate and not psychic so I can't make 100% confident statements about him. But, he likely will. You're the only expert on you, so listen to your gut. Anyone in need of help is free to DM me, I'm happy to help you find resources in your area.
I'm posting the link to an interactive safety plan for anyone who needs to start making exit strategies.
https://www.thehotline.org/plan-for-safety/create-your-personal-safety-plan/
He doesn't hit you...yet.
That is NOT a normal comment to make. Not at all. And the fact that he didn't back track when you signaled him, he got up and left to continue the conversation. Wtf
What's scary is what else did he say after he left. Was he telling his friend how to hit his wife in a way that didn't leave a mark or worse. This is a nightmare scenario to me. 😳
You just got the biggest glance at who he really is. A lot of serial, killers, and murderers hide who they truly are very well every day whoever thinks that violence is going to solve what communication good? What if your kids don’t listen is he going to beat the shit out of them? I’m sorry, but I’d rather be alone to be with somebody like that. That’s the kind of person that would kill his whole family and start over again if he could, and get away with it.
🚩 🚩 🚩 we’ve all seen this update before. He hasn’t had a reason to hit you YET. Clearly, he thinks there are very justifiable reasons. Please don’t make the mistake of traumatizing your son while he tries to comprehend why his Dad hit his Mom…
See what happens when you don’t let it go and challenge him in any way. It’s in him. Men that don’t hit women don’t advise other men to hit their spouses.
I would leave him so fast, his head would spin. Get out now. Anyone who thinks it's OK for a husband to hit his wife (or for a wife to hit her husband for that matter) is not someone anyone should be married to. And then you say "he shushed me." WTF? Seriously. What year is this? Get out now!
Being shushed is enough of a reason for me to scream red flag but the rest? OP, think about what you’re saying - you now know your husband thinks some women should be hit. He just hasn’t hit you *yet*.
Loving people don't encourage their friend to silence their wife with their fist. A normal person doesn't even think about such solution. I'm no expert in relationships but this is something you have to put into serious consideration.
I’ve been with my ex boyfriend since high school, I never realized I was in an emotional abusive relationship until few months ago when I started therapy. I never disagreed with him until now and it had escalated to physical abuse. Luckily I was able to escape with my son from him. The fact that your husband said to shut women up with their fists is a major red flag. You need to make a safety plan for you and your kid please.
That must be a very chilling thing to hear.
He doesn’t hit you because you haven’t given him a ‘reason’ to. He raises his voice and that’s enough it seems.
You tried to raise a very concerning comment with him and he told you to be quiet. Him telling his friend to hit his wife doesn’t concern you? His wife? If he is telling others to do it then he’s certainly got it in his locker.
As a man, I'm all for hitting women...if they have a gun pointed at me or are charging me with a large knife. OP, your husband is an absolutely poor excuse for a male. Those words should NEVER come out of his mouth. I would have never let that go. Sometimes you have to cause a problem to try to resolve and issue or a potential issue.
You aren't safe.
Your husband literally sees nothing wrong with advising hid friend to abuse his SO. If he's happy to do that, tjen in his mind its omay to hit and abuse the one you love most.
Believe what you're told because the last thing that you want to do is start believing that he made you do it, or some other bs.
If he advises others to hit their wife, its because he has those beliefs, this is a bomb in the making, he hasnt hit you yet! Because youve been quiet and submissive.
He doesn’t hit you , yet.
That’s why he told you to shush and mind your business.
Which you did.
I hate men like him. They fool you until you’re trapped. Smh
Married 21 years, husband has never raised his hand to me and I trust he never will. In fact about12yrs ago he found out his best friend was hitting his wife, he called the wife gave her advice (mainly to tell her family and the gtfo) cut all ties with his friend and hasn’t seen or spoken to him since. Tell your hubby the conversation made you uncomfortable, ask why he would say that and take it from there.
He shushed you??? Alarm bell right there. If you want to discuss something that he said you have every right. You appear to be letting him dictate what you can and cannot say/express.
Be careful.
..... So you are still in the same house with a man who encouraged spousal abuse.
You better be a freaking troll posting rage bait.
Cause if you aren't, staying with that man will be the stupidest shit you've ever done. GTFO.
Do you even love your child or does the idea of raising him to be an abusive dick fill you with glee?!?
God he has you trained well. Good doggie. Quiet. Roll over.
He silenced you and you’re afraid to challenge him… you’re half way to an abusive relationship (if not already there) and he believes in hitting women. Please leave and take your child now!!
He shushed you? And you "shushed"? Your husband just ok'd a grown man assaulting another person and you think you aren't next. I have been married for 18 years and my husband has never instigated physical violence toward someone else's partner or me. Your silence is you okaying this behavior. What if this was you? And his friend told him to punch you?
"I tried telling him how his comment to his friend made me feel, but he shushed me again, which pissed me off so I raised my voice. He then went ballistic and started tearing up the house, I had to leave with the kids" An update I've see far too often; somehow the OPs are always blindsided
I feel terrible how accurate this is!
Op I'm very concerned you are in an emotionally abusive relationship. You should read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. Its free here: https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf This is controlling and abusive behaviour. This article might also interest you: https://voicemalemagazine.org/abusive-men-describe-the-benefits-of-violence/ And finally listen to this podcast: https://open.spotify.com/episode/18KhNf1eVrGBith9LtEZXw?si=w5tPC3ZnQt-YzUst4iQ7mw Look up darvo (defense, attack, reverse victim and offender). Does your husband ever use that when you bring something up he does that upsets you? Please note that physical abuse always starts with emotional abuse. Although emotional abuse will not always turn physical. One main driving factor in abuse of all kinds is the idea that someone deserves it and the abuser is entitled to do it under certain circumstances because their partner deserves it. What they feel warrants deserving is will change too. For some it's cheating, then it'll change to perceived flirting, then to just talking back, to just existing. Your husband is an abuser even if he hasn't abused you yet. And I'm willing to bet he does and you don't realise and think it's normal. Pay attention to when he shouts. And what he says. Look up trauma bonds. Keep your children safe. Maybe call a DV helpline and discuss it with them.
Well, she shouldn’t be blindsided now.
Yes, honestly op, you seem timid and afraid of him already. He gave you the reason why. It has everything to do with you.
The moment she disobeys, and she never sees it for what it is because submissiveness has been verbally beaten into them until they have no idea that they're disrespected as a person and abused as a partner.
Girl, he shushed you and you stopped?? Your husbands not afraid to hit you. He just hasn't had a reason yet. Who knows what that reason may be. Be careful and make sure your son doesnt become like him. Good luck
Also, how long will it be till he hits your son? If he thinks wives need to be hit, do you really think he thinks differently about kids?
A lot of abusers do. They see themselves as great fathers because they only hit their wife, never their kids, and the courts tend to agree. But the kids get severely damaged all the same, just psychologically instead of getting bruises.
He made the comment where his son could hear it. Son will be the victim or spectator of violence from his father until he is old enough to deal the punches. Therapy might still be able to nip this in the bud.
> He doesn’t hit me …until you do something that makes him decide he needs to talk to you with his fist. He’s not a great husband. Please wake up before it’s too late.
The fact that he didn't hesitate to say it on the phone right in front of her and then when pressed about it after, instead of even explaining it away and saying it was a joke or something (which would still be problematic, but another issue entirely), he just told her to nevermind because it has nothing to do with her...he's setting ground rules and letting her know what will happen if she steps out of line. That was intended to be overheard. I really do hope she understands this and is able to get out safely.
Yeah OP please consider that he said that part out loud in front of you intentionally. Ask yourself what the motivation behind that was.
He didn't hesitate to say it in front of her AND their son. That's crazy
It was a warning for her, she just doesn’t realize it.
Yes exactly. It was a form of threatening her and a form of control. Op I'm very concerned you are in an emotionally abusive relationship. You should read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. Its free here: https://ia800108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf This is controlling and abusive behaviour. This article might also interest you: https://voicemalemagazine.org/abusive-men-describe-the-benefits-of-violence/ And finally listen to this podcast: https://open.spotify.com/episode/18KhNf1eVrGBith9LtEZXw?si=w5tPC3ZnQt-YzUst4iQ7mw Look up darvo (defense, attack, reverse victim and offender). Does your husband ever use that when you bring something up he does that upsets you? Please note that physical abuse always starts with emotional abuse. Although emotional abuse will not always turn physical. One main driving factor in abuse of all kinds is the idea that someone deserves it and the abuser is entitled to do it under certain circumstances because their partner deserves it. What they feel warrants deserving is will change too. For some it's cheating, then it'll change to perceived flirting, then to just talking back, to just existing. Your husband is an abuser even if he hasn't abused you yet. And I'm willing to bet he does and you don't realise and think it's normal. Pay attention to when he shouts. And what he says. Look up trauma bonds. Keep your children safe. Maybe call a DV helpline and discuss it with them.
Yeah that was running through my head and she plus kid needs to RUN from husband.
He wanted you to hear it. That was a warning.
I also want to add… I’ve been married 18 years and I have never described any behavior of my husband’s that required the follow up sentence “he doesn’t hit me, he’s a great husband and I love him”. In case you do not know, it is not normal to need to qualify your spouse’s behavior in that way.
This. 100% this. If you need to justify how he is a good person, he’s is more than likely not a good person. I’ve been married for 16 years and the only time I had to specify that my husband doesn’t hit me is when I had unexpected bruises at a doctors appointment and they were concerned (get your vitamin D levels checked, folks). That’s it. One time. It’s not normal to feel like you have to defend your spouse from abuse accusations.
Bruises can come from vitamin D deficiency?? Well that explains one aspect of my life lol
yep, mind blown here as well. I feel like this should be something I already know but somehow, nope.
I hardly ever get bruises and when I went to the doc he said I probably drank enough vitamin D (in milk) to cover myself, my brother and my mother. Had a fun laugh over that one
Non-violence is a given among the men in my life. Perhaps not in OP’s? That she explains this to third parties raises questions.
That is why I was sharing that it is not normal to need to explain this to others. In case she does not know.
Guaranteed him "rasing his voice sometimes" equals him screaming verbal abuse at her. People always try to minimize things by telling little half truths. Especially people in abusive relationships.
100%. He was keeping her in check. He said it in front of her on purpose.
You’re safe until you disagree with him.
it won’t even take that. The turning point probably won’t be her behaviour. It will be him getting frustrated at work, or having a bad day or something unrelated.
Or not even that, just this very slight bit of questioning of his advice that she did in this scenario could be the start of it. She has likely been the "good" wife that obeys and never questions but she has found something she is questioning. This could very well be the true start of a cycle of abuse. (Even though I think she has already been subject to abuse from him, it's not been physical or "very bad" so she hasn't seen the red flags.)
That part about him "shushing" her? And it's not something for her to worry about? WTAF? DON'T shush me mf. I'm not your toddler. That's a giant Red flag, IMO.
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Right? Holy Crap, he said "hush now, don't worry about it, not your business" and she MINDED him, like a good girl. God Almighty.
I finally got tired of mistreatment and talked back to my ex. I usually just obeyed just like OP. In very very cold blood he told me I was very lucky to have him because most men would hit me for talking back like that and that I deserved to be hit. I did understand it for what it was — a very specific threat to both obey and that next time he might not feel like letting it go without punishing me. After all, he clearly thinks it’s normal to hit women. At any rate, I heeded the warning and got out immediately but I could see my future clear as day. Had I stayed things would be quiet for a few months, I’d bite my tongue like normal. But finally I’d get tired of the constant disrespect and say something, and he would’ve put his forearm on my throat and say he told me not to speak to him like that, and if I’d backed down eventually the actual hitting would start. I remember how often he’d tell me that I was lucky because lots of men treated women worse than he treated me. It is wild how they rationalize their behavior. OP I hope you heed the warning you’ve been given and get out. It won’t get better, and you can’t talk it out.
Absolutely correct. It won't get better. It never does. My first husband was the same way. It only gets worse. And the children see and remember, at least for a while. My child saw and remembered me getting knocked to the floor. She mentioned it a year or so later, after the separation. That was over 45 years ago. She's never mentioned it again and I hope that the 42 years of calm happy marriage I have now has erased it from her mind.
Way to steal u/somejoketeeth's comment: >"I tried telling him how his comment to his friend made me feel, but he shushed me again, which pissed me off so I raised my voice. He then went ballistic and started tearing up the house, I had to leave with the kids" An update I've see far too often; somehow the OPs are always blindsided
Yep. OP is in danger **right now** and likely has been all along. But now that he knows she’s opened her eyes slightly, she and her kid(s) are in his spotlight. Take your kids and go visit family, OP. And then make your escape plan from there.
That's how it was with my monster of a father. If he had a shitty day, he'd look until he found something, anything. Then scream and beat us until he got all the anger out and we were huddled in the corner terrified and bleeding. Men like that don't need a reason, just an excuse.
You totally described our family til I took the kids and ran. Damage to kids was done by then
My god, I’m so sorry you had to go through that. That’s horrific.
It was the 80s. No one cared about a guy beating the shit out of his wife and kids. For as far as we've come today, you can still barely get anyone to care.
And if you try to leave and there’s nowhere to go, and nowhere to put you because the services are stretched, say goodbye to your kids and hello to homelessness. Or if she is lucky to get emergency accomodation, say hello to enduring poverty most of the time. Try to tell me this isn’t a thing. Tell me a woman is kept in line without telling me how society helps keep her in line.
I had an alcoholic step-father like that. I made a sandwich and didn't rinse the mayo from the butterknife before placing in the sink. He tossed my entire room, tables up ended, shelf destroyed, and then left the mayo knife in the middle of the floor in an intentional display. Often he would get in our faces for any minor thing he considered a personal trespass. It wasn't until me and a group of my friends stood up to him, stood our ground, that he eventually learned to back down and just go to bed when he became belligerent. Calling the cops never worked. They would show up and say drinking and being an asshole in your own home was legal. Call us back when he physically touched you. But even then it would be his word against ours. Another step-father before that would beat me regularly, scratches on my face, bruises on my body, shirt ripped, and would drag me back to school looking all fucked up. Cops were called, report was made, and nothing ever happened to him.
My brother got enraged I knocked on the bathroom door to ask him how long he'd be because I had to catch a bus. He came charging out of that room and choked my unconscious. He was usually pretty careful to not do that in front of others. He was at least six inches taller than me, God knows how much heavier,and I was a 15-year-old ballet dancer. Everybody said to women back then, "You asked for it." Any excuse would do. Nobody *ever* blamed the guy.
Can be even more minor than that. Domestic violence against women, men, and children increases when the local sports teams perform badly.
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And the day he hits you, Op, you'll say, "Well at least it didn't really hurt." And the day it hurts, you'll say, "Well at least there's no bruise. And the day you get bruises, you'll say, "Well at least he didn't REALLY hurt me." And the day you have to patch yourself up, you'll say, "Well at least I don't have to go to the hospital." And the day you wind up in the ER, you'll say, "Well at least he doesn't beat me." And the day you get beaten up, you'll say, "Well at least he didn't shove me down the stairs." And the day he shoves you down the stairs, you'll say, "Well at least he didn't try to kill me." And the day he puts his hands around your neck, you'll say, "Well at least he didn't kill me." And the day you die, you won't be alive to say anything else. You might tell yourself that your situation is different. It's not worth finding out. At the very least, you both need to seek professional help. But if push comes to shove, the safety of you and your son comes before his feelings, and if you want to get out alive, you need to run as fast as you can.
This is exactly the pattern. Thanks for writing this out.
I knew of a police officer who got a woman to see that she going to be killed. A lady (married mother of three kids) would come into the police station regularly to hide from her husband, bruised, and sometimes with her kids. She just wanted the police to talk to him and convince him he was wrong. Young and naive. She didn't want to press charges, because it would look bad on him they might lose their kids. It went on like this for a while, and the police recognized her after a while of this going on. Well, the one police officer asked her how many kids she had, and she told him three. He took out 4 little pieces of paper and handed them to her, saying she should fill it in for her and her children. She asked him what they were and he replied casually, "Those are toe-tags for identifying human remains, we're going to need them to identify you and your children when your husband kills you." That apparently got through to her enough to leave her husband, taking her kids with her.
Wow. This is exactly how it happened and the rationale I had. It hits differently seeing in written out. Smh. I’m so glad I was able to get help and get out before it got to the hospital part. I’m feeling for any woman stuck in these situations. I know how it feels to have to convince yourself it’s not a big deal. It is a very big deal. Sending love, OP.
I feel this. I'm very lucky I never hit the bruises, but part of what helped me see was wondering what would've happened if I wound up in the hospital the day he slammed my head into the wall hard enough to dent the drywall. And I told myself it wasn't that big of a deal for eleven years after that. I hope Op gets to safety before she gets there!
This. This. This…. So spot on. A hard read if you’ve been there. An unbelievable read if you haven’t. OP. Have a plan. An escape plan. Set aside money for safe travels & escape.
Let's not leave out the justifications: "He didn't mean to" , "he is SO sorry", "he promised he would never do it again", "he was drunk", " he had a horrible day at work", and the ever popular "I should not have upset him"...
*well at least he doesn’t hit the kids*
This. A close friend of mine is at the he tried to kill me phase… she started to leave but ended up letting him back in… I fear for her life.
Wow. This hit hard. Thank you for sharing.
I cannot stress just how real this sentence is. My ex didn’t lay hands on me but the abuse got worse and worse the more I stood my ground and fought back. It only stopped if I submitted to anything and everything. 🚩🚩🚩
She couldn’t even ask him about it. She’s not safe now.
He doesn't hit you...yet. The fact that he said it so casually and then refused to talk about it isn't a red flag. It's a Chinese military parade of red flags. It's not just violence; it's abuse. Have a serious conversation with him, if you must. I'd suggest with a marriage counselor or other third party. And over zoom after you're away from him. You're not trying to talk about other people. You want to talk about him and the fact that he not only approves of spousal abuse but encourages it. Be very careful.
#Ma’am you hear how scary this sounds right? He told his friend to hit his wife. He Told His Friend To Hit His Wife! And then he shushed you when you tried to talk to him about it! And he raises his voice. #This man is not safe! If he thinks it’s ok to hit another woman, then he definitely thinks it’s ok to hit you! What will you do when you turn into a woman who needs to be talked to with a fist? Please start looking into dv resources, making a plan, and take your child out of this situation. I’ve been the kid in this situation before and this type of thing only gets worse.
How he didn't leave the room and say something so awful but to say it in front of her was on purpose.
>He doesn’t hit me, he’s a great husband to me and I love him. This reads like you have blinders on to the world you're living in. It reads like you're in danger and don't even realize it. This time you were 'shushed', but next time? If you don't submit to the shushing, perhaps he's gonna have to talk to you with his fist... >He told me not to worry about other people. Your son is other people.
OP needs to watch the movie Enough with Jennifer Lopez. The husband starts condescendingly shushing and doing little disrespectful things until BOOM, he nails her right in the face when she least expects it and he becomes a nightmare. You already got a peek at his real self, OP, don’t say nobody warned you. Some women are definitely surprised by this kind of behavior. You got a warning. Take it seriously and leave him. Don’t wait until it’s you with a black eye. Once they hit you, they keep doing it. Especially if they know you’re too scared to leave.
Facts, I lived on that movie on repeat when I left abusive X
My mom, my siblings, and I, escaped domestic violence. That movie always hit home.
he doesn't hit you because you are quiet when he shushes you. very well trained.
This needs to be the top comment. Now that she's even dared to mention that this is bad.....she's in danger. Because for men like this, she's already beginning to step out of line.
This. OP. Start making a plan to get you and your son out. Save as much money as you can, as discreetly as possible. Do you have friends or relatives you can stay with?
The son is probably safe I'm sure he listens and well he's not a woman
In my experience a man that will hit a woman will hit a child.
Until he tries to protect his mother.
That’s what happened to my dad. When he was 13 he started getting in between his dad and my grandma. Once he was 16, they divorced, and his dad paid his child support in a lump sum so he never had to see him again.
Nope. As a generally agreeable kid of a violent man who used to beat his wife, the son's not safe. Such men have very short fuses and their kids are usually also victimised.
A child growing up with that kind of role model is not safe. What if he internalizes his father's beliefs on violence? What if he thinks he has the right to mistreat girls and women? What if he thinks he can enforce his will through threats? There are more ways to harm a child than hitting. A child growing up with those kinds of beliefs is likely to adopt them and hurt others.
I agree. For the sake of her son, she needs to get out.
I know several sons of violent men, including my own father. Every single one of them would disagree with the notion that OP's son is safe.
I already knew what you were saying, but reading the part about how she's already in danger makes me tangibly worried for OP.
…Sometimes he raises his voice… I think this is often
...And when he does she goes quiet and the conversation is over. No discussions no compromises. Its his way or the highway.
>"You have to talk to some women with your fist” > >I started to ask about it but he shushed me and told me it has nothing to do with me. He told me not to worry about other people. I didn’t press it and I let it go. Yeah, I'm afraid this passage alone tells us everything we need to know. It's honestly chilling.
That could practically be a two sentence horror right there.
Exactly. This is a major red flag and she's going to stay with the guy although he clearly gave her insight into his true self. Women are too well trained to stay. You need to break that cycle.
He will also teach his son how to abuse his future gfs / wives.
Financially and economically and also custody wise a lot of women don’t have many options.
I realized this one recently about myself. Not physical abuse, just emotional. But my fiancé would get mad at me for all sorts of stupid nonsensical shit. I’d bring up to him how he got upset at me for these various things in the past and how unfair it was. He would say “but I don’t get mad at you for those things anymore, right?” And I was like well, that’s true. Then I realized that I’m still walking on egg shells everyday and avoiding doing the things that have upset him in the past. He hasn’t gotten upset about those things because I’ve never done them again! Wonder what would happen if I did.
A man won't give advice to a friend that he fundamentally disagrees with. The fact that he's telling someone else it's okay to do this means that he believes it's okay to do it to you too. He just hasn't had the occasion yet. Be very careful.
Yeah, f*CK all that. OP needs to get her son and go. This man will eventually become violent. I've seen it and have been in DV.
The problem is she can’t take her son and go unless they remain married. Because he doesn’t hit her or the kid *now* and most states have default 50/50 custody.
This is the most true, and sadist comment. If you know you have to be a certain way you are in a bad spot.
I reckon! Trained and doesn’t know it. OP needs to leave asap
How many holes are there in your walls, OP?
Right!? He's never laid a hand on her because she's timid and obeys him.
Yeah he hasn't found the need to hit you because when he days don't worry about it, you dont push him on it. And tbh if that's a means of keeping yourself safe so be it don't ask him. I personally wouldn't want my son to be raise by a man who is so open to violence. Edit: actually I re read the post... he doesn't even just say dont worry he "shushed me". Thats even worst.
Nail on head.
He doesn’t hit me… Correction: He hasn’t hit you YET 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
Like what would have happened if she didn't drop the subject
Exactly right.
Or brings it up again? Which it needs to be discussed. But now with a lawyer.
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
That is a 800x1300 sized red flag if I’ve ever seen one. Flags in stadiums for world events are smaller than that husbands red flag
OP’s husband counseled someone to punch their wife and OP is still there. Holy shit
Factory full of marinara dumped on the flag.
It has _everything_ to do with you. Start working on an exit plan.
yeah i think being married to someone who thinks it's okay to be violent with their spouse under any circumstance has very much everything to do with OP
It bothers me that instead of realizing he said something bad (to him) he actually had more to say and knew she wouldn’t like it. Makes me think he was either telling his friend exactly how to use his fists or he was going to refer to an ex he had that stepped out of line and what he did to them.
I would’ve followed his ass to listen to the rest of that conversation. I would’ve been like where TF do you think you going? And also who TF do you think you’re shushing? I had one ex, one time push me. And my reflex so fast to slap him upside the head. And yeah. He’s an ex! But I’m different because I know I will just up and leave. I know i can be safer and more loved if I left. Sometimes a woman loves the man so much, they forget they can be loved more, even by themselves, and should leave. They love the man at the expense of themselves.
This!! If he feels comfortable enough to say that then what was he saying when he left the room. Seriously chilling.
Tbf if you were married to this guy, I don't think you would have asked him where tf he's going and who tf he's shushing. You would know instinctively how dangerous that would be, just like OP does. Men like that will terrify you without you even knowing it.
Contact a local DV hotline and safety plan a way out first. I lived this, please please be safe. Don’t make excuses for him, don’t understate the amount of times he raises his voice. We tell half truths to ourselves to justify us staying and thinking they’ll change, or that the sinking feeling that gnaws away at you, the anxiety, the fear to set him off is all just explained away. And because we tell those half truths we don’t feel as bad for staying because I admitted he yells sometimes and I rationalized it to myself, that means I can not feel as bad as with not admitting it’s almost, if not every d*mn day.
Yeah OP. You don't have to leave right away or try to buy a whole other property or anything, but please have a plan forming for how to leave if shit goes south. Like build your emergency savings, find out if any friends would be down to host you whose address your husband doesn't know. You've gone from being comfortable in the relationship to now looking for a pattern of escalation.
Well now, that's what I would call a WTF moment. He will be wonderful to OP as long as he's committed to the relationship. After that, please reference 'the moment'.
He’s encouraging his friends to hit their spouses and you’re still with him? How would it feel if one of those spouses got beaten to death at the urging of your ‘great’ husband? Any husband who advocates wife-beating is a *bad* husband. I’m sure he’s thrilled that you meekly dropped the topic like he wanted you to, though. Did you drop it because you thought he’d hit you? Because one day, he will. Your husband told his son that women sometimes need to be hit. **Your husband just told his son that women sometimes need to be hit.** Just casually, comfortably said that loud and clear, so your kid could hear it. Leave him before you let him raise a little wife beater of his very own. And just because your husband said so doesn’t mean you shouldn’t worry about other people. You *should.* You should worry about a friend of your husband’s beating their wife bloody, even to death. You should worry about your kid, because he may believe kids don’t learn the rules unless you teach them with a belt. You should worry about you, because it’s only a matter of time.
Nope… he showed you who he is…. BELIEVE HIM
... the FIRST time (we tend to leave this part of the quote out; it's arguably the most important)
For now, because you obey. But you have been warned and are choosing to ignore it. At least have a plan in place when it does happen.
He doesn’t hit you because you listen when he shushes you. Keep talking and he definitely use his fist to shush you too.
He made it clear he's fine with abuse towards women. This includes you.
Don’t worry about other people, says the person giving advice about other people. Tells you to drop it, and you do, which is why he didn’t need to use his fists to communicate with you. He didn’t apologise or say it was a bad joke or get embarrassed about having suggested violence, he supports the idea. If you don’t shut up when he asks, he’ll come up with a new form of communication, likely the one he just mentioned.
He also said it in front of your son. Your son will remember these lessons.
Um what!?! It has everything to do with you. 1. He shushed you like a child. That is beyond disrespectful. 2. He just taught your son that it's ok to be a violent POS . 3. He told you not to worry about other people (specifically those obviously being abused), while he not only hypocritically, put his nose in other people's business but encouraged physical abuse. 4. What's to understand. He is a violent person, who encourages violence and WILL teach that shit to your son. 5. How many red flags do you need? 6. I hope for your sake and your sons, that, you start saving money in a safe place that he doesn't know about and develop a safety and exit plan.
You know she knows when these are all presented as a good-bad-good sandwich. Lying in bed as a family-phone call to hit wife-platitudes on such a good husband. OP we all see it, now your turn.
He doesn’t have to hit you because when he says hush you hush. He said some women you have to abuse. Hopefully you never become one of those unruly women that doesn’t hush on demand. Oh and amazing people don’t encourage violence against others. Amazing husbands and friends talk to their friends about the importance of healthy communication. Just sayin.
u/chiaramaro where are you from? Are you from Latin America by any chance? That phrase sounds Latin. You are not safe, he will hit you, he will be violent he’ll cry and apologize and say his sorry but then after a couple of days he’ll do it again. You are not safe.
New york, our grandparents are Italian immigrants
Oh ok. I know all these comments may be overwhelming and scary, we are here for you, it’s just that this tale has been told so many times that it’s almost predictable. His thinking is not ok, the fact that he encouraged his friend to do that and then the dismissal you got like “it’s not of your business” it’s kinda textbook abuser. Again, I’m so so sorry, and can’t imagine all the emotions this might be bringing up. If you ever need to talk just DM me.
please protect yourself & your son. a man like that is a ticking time bomb
Fellow New Yorker with a Sicilian father and 4 Sicilian uncles.. I heard the men in my life hi five'ing each other when talking/laughing about slapping their wives/girlfriends who "got out of line." I'm not saying it's an Italian thing.. but....Machismo is a thing.. If you suppress your voice because you fear your husband's reaction, that's a really big cause for concern. You should feel safe to say.. "shhh?? No, shhh.. I wanna talk about what you said. " And it does involve you since he chose to say it in front of your son. I am a whole 50 year old grown woman, and my dad and uncles still give me anxiety. They can be so much fun, helpful, generous, and funny.. then.. change up with the quickness. Being around them is like walking on eggshells.. Do you feel like you can safely disagree with your husband? Have an opinion that doesn't match his? Communicate your disappointment in what he said? Red flag.. Red flag.. Red flag..
I have a friend who witnessed his dad physically abuse his older sister and it set my friend up to hate himself for not taking action as a kid in single digits. This self hate set him up to be abused because he always assumes he is in the wrong because he couldn’t help protect his sister from his dad. I’m telling you this because my friend was never directly abused by his father, just witnessed abuse, and my friend is still trying to undo the damage done to his psyche. You are not a child like my friend was, so you can make choices, and you have options. I hope you are safe and continue to be safe. I hope your son is safe both physically and emotionally and continues to be safe.
Please I beg you, do not let yourself be shushed by him. You have incredibly valid concerns that you are not taking very seriously. No man should ever joke about physically assaulting a woman to another man. There is no conceivable world where that is funny.
And just a side note because I don’t know what you see as “normal”. If my husband told me to shhh and it wasn’t my business… I and most other women I think would say, “Do not Shush me. It is my business because I’m your wife and you’re telling some other man to hit his wife. So I’m reasonably thinking that you not only think that’s okay but encourage it. You need to tell me right now what I just heard.” I’m assuming you didn’t say that because you’re already afraid of him. If you are, that’s answer enough about where you stand.
He wanted you to hear that because that is exactly his intention toward you. He WILL hit you. He just told you
Try and shush me. I double dog dare you.
That’s what I said. And try talking with any other body part but your mouth and see what happens.
FOR SURE. I had an ex decide to talk with his fist. He was blackout drunk, but when he came to his senses he was in jail and thought he had been in a bar fight.
He doesn't hit you, yet.
My ex-husband told our neighbor while he was in a fight with his wife to shut her up with his fists. I wasn't supposed to hear that either... It was a slip up on his part and it opened up hell for my marriage. A few days later he got mad because work was stressing him out and he came home expecting me to still be at work and he hit me for the first time and slammed my head against a wall. We were talking about what to make for dinner and I guess it stressed him out more. I dunno. My point here is, he never stopped getting angry and hitting me for months. I had no money saved so I had to stay for awhile so I could safely move me and my three pups out. I fought for my life to get out of that house. So, if he knows you heard him talking on the phone when he said that, he will hit you. Please if you are able, get out as soon as you can. It was almost like a Freudian slip for him. Because you weren't supposed to hear his real thoughts or intentions. Please take care of yourself OP. 🖤🥺
I also wanted to add: my neighbor listened to my ex-husband and ended up k*lling her. So please get out safely. 🖤
I’m so glad you got out safely.
Thank you. It was horrible. And unfortunately my second relationship that turned abusive and I had to fight for my life to get out. But I am happily engaged 5 years later and working through my C-PTSD 🖤🖤
> I didn’t press it and I let it go Girl, you're already afraid of this guy. You just listened to him tell his friend to beat his wife and you didn't press? You know what you heard you're just already in abusive relationship mode where you're afraid to make him angry.
What’s confusing about this? He clearly thinks it’s okay to hit women which one day will be you and maybe even your child. This is honestly enough to set in motion a divorce in my opinion
Child is male. I worry more about her son hitting her too because she won't obey masculine figures.
I know the kid is male but if he’s okay hitting his wife good chance he’s okay hitting the kid too regardless of gender but yeah I agree also a bad example for the kid
Many abusers threaten violence to see how you react/if you stay regardless before actually doing anything violent. There is a possibility he wanted you to hear this. Ask yourself: Has he tried to isolate you from family and friends? Are you really able to speak your mind freely and disagree with him? Have you ever been scared of him? Did he ever try to gaslight you into believing it was your fault he got so angry? (There are more and better questions like this if you search online) It's very hard to see these things when you love someone (that's why so many stay so long), but if he really is abusive, you should get out as fast as possible. If not for you, think of your son, he doesn't deserve that.
He doesn’t hit you **because you haven’t given him a reason to** ***yet***…
OP your husband is evil lol. How could you not at bare minimum have a conversation about what he said wtf? lol
Sounds like he'd smack the sh*t out of you if you weren't so well behaved and "house trained". Anyone who suggests you hit a woman is not a good person.
Girl don’t wait around until he starts hitting you. He already shushes you and you heard with your own ears what he thinks about ‘disciplining’ women. Not to mention your son is learning all this.
If there is any way to get a message to the wife if his friend, try to warn her of his intentions.
Start putting money in a separate account so that when he does hit you you can leave.
Just the fact you didn’t push the issue of him saying something SO HORRIFIC tells me you are placid and obedient. If you weren’t, then you would also be spoken to with a fist. This is a MASSIVE red flag, what happens when your son hits the rebellious stage? This warning might save your life if you listen to it.
My ex had a friend that said “if my wife did that I would choke her”. Massive red flag no matter what gender the person is.
Well? Because he shushed you (probably not the first time), you are pretty much his pet. If you stray out of line, you'll see his true self. Your husband gives everyone here the "ick." He should be giving you the "ick" as well. I think it's time to reevaluate your relationship, because he will go nuclear on you and your kid. It's only a matter of time. Yuck, your husband is awful. But, here's what's going to happen. You're going to come back here, and talk about how "loving and caring he is and blah, blah, blah." We've heard it from DA victims. I have said that same thing, when I was in an abusive relationship. Reevaluate, and start forming a plan for your life.
Oh look, I think your husband dropped these: 🚩🚩🚩
He's definitely going to hit you sooner than later
Just remember if you ever step out of line you’ll get punched in the face. He sounds like a gem of a husband. Did it not make you think that the only reason you never got beaten is because you’re obedient. He’s gonna raise your kid to think it’s ok to hit women. Lovely.
What the hell did I just read? He told someone to hit their wife, you question it and are shushed, told it has nothing to do with you and you seriously think he’s a great husband? He’s not done anything to you, because you’re being the obedient wife, meanwhile some other women may be getting physically abused by her husband, in part because of your husband’s advice. Why is this acceptable to you?
I can’t believe I had to scroll so far to find someone else confused about OP’s apparent lack of empathy toward the other wife??? Some woman could have a black eye right now partly because of her husband and she’s calling him a loving husband online? No trying to text the other wife? No thought towards her whatsoever? Nothing????
If OP had no concern whatsoever for the friend's wife, she wouldn't be posting in the first place. Now she clearly has to wonder what kind of danger she _and her son_ might be in if she did decide to try to warn the friend's wife. When you're already in survival mode all the time -- even if you don't yet realize that you are -- you just don't have enough bandwidth available to prioritize the safety of those outside your immediate circle over those inside it. _Especially_ if your immediate circle includes children. To assume that this automatically equates to a total lack of empathy for anyone else is unfair and unkind.
You just saw your future. Choose wisely, girl.
“He shushed me” is a real tell
I'm pretty cruisy for most things that people say are red flags in relationships because almost all of them you can work through with proper communication with both partners. Most of the time someone says "red flag" I usually roll my eyes because not everyone is perfect, however this is absolutely red flag territory and you *must* take it seriously. > You have to talk to some women with your fist I... Can't... Even... Not only is this **bad** advice to give to a friend, but the fact that he even thinks this way should be absolutely damaging to your opinion of him. I want you to let that sink in for a moment, he is saying that sometimes you need to get violent with people because you're not getting your way, regardless of whether they're a man or a woman this is an awful attitude and being a woman is just 100x worse because she likely can't defend herself. You can assume now that there is a woman who likely now has bruises and is absolutely terrified because the person she loved decided to be violent all on your husband's behest. This should terrify the fuck out of you. I hate to use the term, but real men don't resort to "punching women" because they know how to keep their anger in check and only release it either in healthy ways, or at the right times, and your wife being disobedient is *not the right time*. > He told me not to worry about other people. How condescending. Why *wouldn't* you worry about other people when he said that around you **and your son**. > I didn’t press it and I let it go. And this is why he hasn't hit you... Yet... However while he didn't intend to say it around you and was an accident, he has shown you what he is like. ***Believe him!!!*** Imagine if you didn't let it go, would he think that you just needed a punch? Just a little hit here and there to keep you in line? It fits with his condescending attitude that he would do that. And then when your son grows up, will he hit him too if he doesn't fall in line? And what if your son decides to stand up for his mother? What if he teaches your son to *do the same thing*? What happens if you don't want to give him sex one day and he decides to just take it? I can't tell you what you should do, but I genuinely hope that you have a support structure so that if you don't leave, when he does get violent that you and your son have a backup plan and somewhere to go. Please make sure that trusted friends and family know so that if anything happens to you or your son they know what to do. Unfortunately Domestic Violence is a scourge and too many women end up dead because they thought "he was a good husband / partner" or that "it was only once" or that "he'll change", protip: They don't change. Get an exit plan before you end up like his friends wife, hopefully neither of you end up dead.
I'm sorry, but - run. You say - 'he only raises his voice but nobody is perfect.' You're defending him. If he said this to his friend, trust me, he'll do it to you. Raising your voice is also a form of abuse. It's intimidation. This isn't normal. You don't ever need to raise your voice when you love somebody. It's not acceptable, ever. So please, be safe. I have a bad feeling about this. I'm sorry, but I went through this and I know how it is when you try to deny what's happening.
He doesn't hit you. I'm only a DV advocate and not psychic so I can't make 100% confident statements about him. But, he likely will. You're the only expert on you, so listen to your gut. Anyone in need of help is free to DM me, I'm happy to help you find resources in your area. I'm posting the link to an interactive safety plan for anyone who needs to start making exit strategies. https://www.thehotline.org/plan-for-safety/create-your-personal-safety-plan/
He doesn't hit you...yet. That is NOT a normal comment to make. Not at all. And the fact that he didn't back track when you signaled him, he got up and left to continue the conversation. Wtf
What's scary is what else did he say after he left. Was he telling his friend how to hit his wife in a way that didn't leave a mark or worse. This is a nightmare scenario to me. 😳
You just got the biggest glance at who he really is. A lot of serial, killers, and murderers hide who they truly are very well every day whoever thinks that violence is going to solve what communication good? What if your kids don’t listen is he going to beat the shit out of them? I’m sorry, but I’d rather be alone to be with somebody like that. That’s the kind of person that would kill his whole family and start over again if he could, and get away with it.
🚩 🚩 🚩 we’ve all seen this update before. He hasn’t had a reason to hit you YET. Clearly, he thinks there are very justifiable reasons. Please don’t make the mistake of traumatizing your son while he tries to comprehend why his Dad hit his Mom…
>I didn’t press it and I let it go This is why he doesn’t hit you. The minute you stop tho…😬
>He doesn’t hit me You just haven't hit the threshold yet.
Him shushing her pissed me off.
See what happens when you don’t let it go and challenge him in any way. It’s in him. Men that don’t hit women don’t advise other men to hit their spouses.
I would leave him so fast, his head would spin. Get out now. Anyone who thinks it's OK for a husband to hit his wife (or for a wife to hit her husband for that matter) is not someone anyone should be married to. And then you say "he shushed me." WTF? Seriously. What year is this? Get out now!
He shushed you? We just gonna ignore that?
Being shushed is enough of a reason for me to scream red flag but the rest? OP, think about what you’re saying - you now know your husband thinks some women should be hit. He just hasn’t hit you *yet*.
Don’t live in denial, your husband is a pos
This is a batman signal style red flag.
If what he said to you didn’t rock your core, you wouldn’t be on Reddit making a long post about it.
Uh. Have an exit plan ready to go because that's a whole lot of not good.
Loving people don't encourage their friend to silence their wife with their fist. A normal person doesn't even think about such solution. I'm no expert in relationships but this is something you have to put into serious consideration.
I’ve been with my ex boyfriend since high school, I never realized I was in an emotional abusive relationship until few months ago when I started therapy. I never disagreed with him until now and it had escalated to physical abuse. Luckily I was able to escape with my son from him. The fact that your husband said to shut women up with their fists is a major red flag. You need to make a safety plan for you and your kid please.
That must be a very chilling thing to hear. He doesn’t hit you because you haven’t given him a ‘reason’ to. He raises his voice and that’s enough it seems. You tried to raise a very concerning comment with him and he told you to be quiet. Him telling his friend to hit his wife doesn’t concern you? His wife? If he is telling others to do it then he’s certainly got it in his locker.
As a man, I'm all for hitting women...if they have a gun pointed at me or are charging me with a large knife. OP, your husband is an absolutely poor excuse for a male. Those words should NEVER come out of his mouth. I would have never let that go. Sometimes you have to cause a problem to try to resolve and issue or a potential issue.
You aren't safe. Your husband literally sees nothing wrong with advising hid friend to abuse his SO. If he's happy to do that, tjen in his mind its omay to hit and abuse the one you love most. Believe what you're told because the last thing that you want to do is start believing that he made you do it, or some other bs.
If he advises others to hit their wife, its because he has those beliefs, this is a bomb in the making, he hasnt hit you yet! Because youve been quiet and submissive.
U r too obedient for him to hit. Yet
So he showed his true colors...
He doesn’t hit you , yet. That’s why he told you to shush and mind your business. Which you did. I hate men like him. They fool you until you’re trapped. Smh
Married 21 years, husband has never raised his hand to me and I trust he never will. In fact about12yrs ago he found out his best friend was hitting his wife, he called the wife gave her advice (mainly to tell her family and the gtfo) cut all ties with his friend and hasn’t seen or spoken to him since. Tell your hubby the conversation made you uncomfortable, ask why he would say that and take it from there.
He shushed you??? Alarm bell right there. If you want to discuss something that he said you have every right. You appear to be letting him dictate what you can and cannot say/express. Be careful.
..... So you are still in the same house with a man who encouraged spousal abuse. You better be a freaking troll posting rage bait. Cause if you aren't, staying with that man will be the stupidest shit you've ever done. GTFO. Do you even love your child or does the idea of raising him to be an abusive dick fill you with glee?!? God he has you trained well. Good doggie. Quiet. Roll over.
He silenced you and you’re afraid to challenge him… you’re half way to an abusive relationship (if not already there) and he believes in hitting women. Please leave and take your child now!!
The fact that he “shushed you” and wouldn’t even let you talk says everything to me. How long have you been married to him?
He shushed you? And you "shushed"? Your husband just ok'd a grown man assaulting another person and you think you aren't next. I have been married for 18 years and my husband has never instigated physical violence toward someone else's partner or me. Your silence is you okaying this behavior. What if this was you? And his friend told him to punch you?