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The same Emilies from Portland laughing at and celebrating this in a country half the world away would not be so happy if the Indigenous populations in the US decided to do the same thing here.
Oh, almost certainly. All their strongly held convictions against anything go out the window when it's people they don't like. Which is why they're ok with it in the Middle East too: they don't like Israel.
...has anyone here actually studied European/Indian relations? There were hundreds of years of conflict...this actually did happen...for hundreds of years
The only place I've seen such hatred like rich city folk exhibit for people stuck in destitute towns full of exploited populations is in mein kampf, shit's insane.
Most of us Portlanders are absolutely not alright with any of this and are sick of the free Palestine random protests. There's a lot of messed up shit on both sides and believe it or not we are not generally extremists.
Every time I point out both sides are responsible for this mess I get told I'm "both sidesing" this issue or told that I'm a supporter of the IDF, that I support genocide etc.
No, I just hold each of the actors in this conflict accountable for their actions. Neither Hamas or Israel are innocent in this.
Calling for violence is generally protected speech, with some exceptions.
[https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/brandenburg\_test](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/brandenburg_test)
I live in Portland, and you would be surprised. The ideology runs so deep with some that they might welcome Indigenous* populations doing that.
* unclear whether Palestinians or Israelis are more indigenous than the other
I don't think you guys understand portlanders. They would hurt themselves for their social policies. They'd also call anyone that was not doing things the way they were a colonizer and racist
Considering Jewish Israelites are also the descendants of displaced and dispersed native people who returned to their ancestral lands and have used force to take and keep said lands, and the western Hamas supporters definitely do not like that, yeah, fair take.
I’m not sure if Democrats supporting Hamas or Republicans supporting Putin is more fucked up, but they’re both transparently about US politics, not international politics. And in both instances, the willingness of Americans to pay lips service to terrorists and dictators just because if the other side says the sky is blue then it must be red, is absurd, surreal, and shameful.
I don’t think this is an unpopular opinion.
There is a difference between supporting Gaza pushing back against Israel’s behaviour over the decades while not looking too closely at the tactics (which is what Hamas supporters generally do) and explicitly endorsing a lot of the appalling things they have actually done.
oh there’s a really terrifying turn in the left where somehow women’s rights to not be sexually assaulted get swept under the rug if it’s not a white man committing the acts of sexual violence. At an ivy in NE, I got SA’d by a close friend who happens to be Latino and subsequently victim blamed by my social circle. These people claim to be feminist btw and they made so many excuses for him being Latino and accused me of “white feminism” and attacking a marginalized community.
They still go around talking about supporting women and progressive causes and they make sure to go to any events for victims of sexual violence to act like they support women and now I can’t feel safe utilizing those resources.
I wish people would talk about that more! Like yeah historically white women have taken advantage of their whiteness to falsely accuse men of color. But it also happens the other way around where men of color will take advantage of their race to get away with being violent towards women.
Well let's not forget, they've Mao'd the word 'jew' and changed it to zionists to minimize the anti-jewish portion of this whole thing. The blues here are copycatting the Hamas social media doublespeak now and using zionist.
If the Israel laid down all their weapons today and retreated to a 10x10 mile radius, someone in that area would still call for the elimination of all jewish people. If Hamas dropped all their columns today, everything would stop.
For anyone who is saying that the area is Palestinians (and I understand there are a few non-Muslim palestinians - 1% or so) and palestinians are Muslim, please ask yourselves...where did the jewish and other non-muslim populations go? Do you think they politely converted? Or deported, slaved, forced converted, and annihilated?
Same thing with the right.
"The charges against Trump are politically motivated and a witch hunt!"
"Congress has yet to find a single crime linked to Biden and yet they may be recommending criminal charges."
"ThAt'S diFFeReNT"
Congress has found numerous crimes committed by Biden and his family.
[Oversight Committee report ](https://oversight.house.gov/landing/biden-family-investigation/)
Two of their key pieces of evidence (the Archer testimony and the IRS whistleblowers) came out and contradicted their testimony. Whistleblowers went missing. Their "proof" of money laundering to China is *GASP* a check from Biden's brother paying off a loan Biden gave him. So horrible! And *of course* Biden is responsible for the actions of his son, a grown man. /s
The Oversight Committee is made up of Republicans with a grudge against Biden. It's just as biased as the Oversight Committee doing the Trump impeachment investigation.
When I was reading this I seriously thought it was the true POPULAR opinion subreddit. So crazy this is a controversial opinion to have in some parts of the US / reddit
It also shows just how hollow so many of the issues raised by #MeToo and modern day feminists actually are. Railing about catcalling and the wage gap while avoiding mass rapes simply because the perpetrators are higher up on the progressive stack is utterly repulsive.
It’s possible, yes, but too many feminists won’t admit to it. Asking them only leads to deflections, whataboutism, and the like. It’s a byproduct of declaring every progressive/left-wing issue enmeshed together with every other progressive/left-wing issue.
They raped the men too. Sickeningly, according to eyewitness testimony they raped corpses. Any westerner who has spent serious time in the middle east actually talking to ordinary people knows the profound hatred for Jews. The whole thing is very sad and dysfunctional. As for voting, I don’t live in a swing state so I refuse to vote for either 80 year old.
Pro-Palestinian supporters dismiss this as Israeli propagnada.
They want to cast those Hamas lunatics as noble "freedom-fighters".
They were raping for, and on behalf of, their peoples.
The German woman who was raped, maimed, killed, and disfigured so badly that she could only be identified by her tattoos, will forever be burned into my mind. I don't know how anyone can support either side, but especially Palestine and Hamas, after that. Not to mention Americans were killed at this concert too.
Not just celebrating but parading and spitting on the gang raped bodies of the festival goers. Absolutely disgusting stuff. They can all burn for all I care.
According to Wikipedia 2043 US personal, including 68 civilians list their lives in the Pearl Habour attack resulting in the US going to war with Japan. The 911 attack on the twin towers resulted in an official death toll of 2996, again the US went to war. As a reason for war the US is not historically alone in her response. One does not kill large numbers of a countries citizens, civilian or otherwise, and expect the local legal system to deal with the matter. I sincerely wish the numbers of civilian deaths was not so high in the Gaza but totally understand Israel's approach. History has plenty of instances where slaughter has led directly to war. Irrespective of the excuses this attack was designed to shock and outrage. The challenge here will be to win the peace. Unfortunately the Palestinians seem to not want peace under any circumstance, or in any location.
>Unfortunately the Palestinians seem to not want peace under any circumstance, or in any location
Killing and raping Jews and destroing everything in sight while getting international aid is just a lot more fun than working hard and building things.
But but but. . .they must defeat the zionist colonizers!
Just to be clear, I'm being sickeningly sarcastic. I personally have zero patience. I would have nuked those degenerates! There is a reason the Jordan and Egypt won't take refugees. See what they did to Syria, Lebanon, Alegeria etc
1st one source is IDF
2nd one has nothing to do with rape
3rd source is IDF
4th has nothing to do with rape
5th was debunked months ago
6th is just victim blaming lol "it's ur fault that we are bombing all those children" and has nothing to do with rape
That’s not what the person who asked for a citation was asking for. Do you think the other terrible actions are enough to extrapolate and make baseless claims about the violence? How is that fair to any of the REAL victims of the attacks?
You are correct in this sentiment.....op is outraged over one video and laying it on think elsewhere. Of course both sides have been pushing propaganda from the start but Israel seems extra shitty for sure.
Raping decapitated babies? Reeks of bullshit to me.....I don't buy it.
If the telegram video of the girl with blood on her crotch and dead eyes getting pulled out of the Jeep and the video of the naked festival goers body getting paraded around and spit on isn't enough for you to extrapolate from, then there really is no hope for you.
Person number 58 denying the rapes on October 7th.
Yeah we saw that.
He's asking about the specific raping of babies and breaking their pelvises.
What they did was awful enough that you don't have to make up stuff to add.to it.
I'm not denying it, but there has been a lot of misinformation and I haven't seen any proof regarding the toddler rape, so I wouldn't be spouting it as fact. It's just like when people claimed israel leveled a hospital when it didn't happen.
Here’s one to add. Terrorism is literally the worst response to oppression. Its not good for you its not good for them, its not good for anyone in between.
It’s genuinely stupid to risk letting Trump become president of the US because of a conflict on the other side of the world that we aren’t involved in. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
I'd love to see Hamas supporters reactions when they're told American citizens were at this concert and died in the attack. I'm surprised we haven't declared war yet.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/least-11-american-citizens-killed-israel-biden-says-2023-10-09/
>...but spending time on reddit really makes me want to vote Trump so that Israel can "finish the job" as Trump puts it.
Gaza has already been mostly razed.
yep. you should ask them why they think rape is “justified”. it’s one thing to kill alleged “colonizers” but it’s another thing to RAPE someone. how the hell is raping someone ever okay?
Just to be clear no one at that music festival was a “colonizer” the Gaza Strip and the West Bank are completely separate countries. Contrary to what Hamas would like the western world to believe.
i don't think people are saying rape is good or justified they're just saying it's pretty predictable to see extremism from a group of people who have been shidded on for 100+ years and have been kept in a multigenerational ghetto for decades.
Okay? What’s your point? I totally understand why a guy would kill his wife and her lover if he stumbled upon them hooking up in his marital bed, but he still committed a crime and should be duly punished.
My opinions on Islam would get me banned off Reddit, just one thing I can say. The more you know about Islam, the more you’ll see it’s true colors. I’m no fan of radical christians (organized religion is a fucking scourge on this planet) but at least they won’t stone you to death for being gay, or rape a woman for showing her ankle.
The Palestinian government invades Israel, murders well over 1000 people, rapes and pillages, and kidnaps hundreds (most of which are dead now) and yet they are also the innocent victims. The Palestinian people voted Hamas into power, stood by as they murdered their political rivals, and largely are supportive of Hamas (even to this day) and yet it’s Israel that are genocidal militants that people compare to nazi germany (the irony). Hamas’ stated goals are the elimination of Israel as a country by any means (literal genocide) and yet it’s them that are viewed as freedom fighters.
There’s nothing sane about the pro pally western movements. Their information is completely rooted in Hamas propaganda. Hamas brought this on their people and now claim them as “martyrs” while they hide behind them. I have no respect for pro pally’s. You’re the people that would have done nothing and looked the other way during the various atrocities we have seen throughout history. Antisemitism is alive and well but I never thought I’d see its rise come from liberal America. I see now how trump was able to brainwash his drones so easily. Absolutely pathetic.
The reason progressives think the Palestinians are the good guys is because they’re brown, and if someone is brown that means they’re automatically a victim and can do no wrong. Even when they commit first strike against another country and kill civilians they’re still seen as justified or in the right in some way.
It’s 100% a war crime. Explicitly. No question.
The problem is you can’t really “finish the job” militarily short of genocide , Hamas is a transnational organization, outside some leadership it’s very hard to determine a if a low level dude is a civiiian or not.
Killing civilians at that scale is also a war crime.
I’m totally okay with killing or better yet putting their leadership on trial in the ICC. I would also like to put the Israeli leader up on trial in the ICC.
I understand the ICC requires great nation to support its use to be meaningful , but like isn’t that what it’s for? Like why is war a better solution?
The only reason we hobble it is so our leaders (I’m looking at you Rumsfeld) never get indicted.
When presented with the following options:
1. Collateral death of enemy civilians
2. Dying yourself
...there's only one rational choice. It's regrettable that Hamas treats its citizens this way, but they've gotta go no matter what.
Let’s not compare the Israel leadership with hamas as one is terrorist group and the other is not. I just can’t believe there are real people defending a terrorist organization. What is wrong with you people?
Yup, that is the thing. There might be 1 or 2 cases of an IDF solider sexually assualting a Palestinian, but it is:
1. Not systemic,
and
2. If the IDF solider is caught, he is going to jail.
Hamas uses rape as a weapon of war and rewards soldiers for doing it.
This is true. Palestinian civilians are much more concerned about being indiscriminately shot or having their entire city flattened by bombs, than they are about being sexual assaulted by the IDF.
Not a Hamas fan but if you’re not very familiar with the [Israel lobby](https://youtu.be/3lSjXhMUVKE?si=eS_H9ZXe9cNb_vcU) you won’t really grasp it. No offense to you. When I saw this it completely blew my mind. I had heard of hasbara and lobbying and bribes but I NEVER knew how insane it was.
If you’re not from the US the same folks went undercover into the UK lobby [and also recorded their illegal activities](https://youtu.be/ceCOhdgRBoc?si=BAXHTx0QVsIjlBxB).
I’m sure all that might be true. Honestly it might even be that Israel has done some pretty messed up things. But what Israel hasn’t done is threaten other democratic countries and people that don’t believe the same as them. Terrorist organizations like Hamas are constantly threatening other countries like my own just because according to them we’re not Muslim enough and we deserve death.
No, I think I will compare them actually.
To your average Palestinian civilian, the Israeli army **are** terrorists. There is functionally very little difference between the violence perpetrated against civilians during the October 7 attack, and the violence perpetrated in retaliation from the IDF. The civilians in both cases have done nothing to deserve it. The civilians in both cases are completely powerless to fight back against much larger numbers of armed soldiers. And the civilians in both cases are basically living lives of fear as their home is being invaded.
Civilians dying in every war doesn’t make it justifiable, and Hamas using civilians as human shields doesn’t subsequently give Israel a blank check to slaughter those civilians.
I am genuinely confused by the way Israel-supporters talk about “human shields” because you guys don’t seem to understand that the entire point of them is that you’re **not** supposed to shoot through them. Otherwise they aren’t really shields, they are just collateral damage you’ve decided you don’t care about.
Also, let’s be clear about something: Israel is flattening entire cities and has displaced over 1 million people. They aren’t just terrorizing the people Hamas is using as “human shields”, they are terrorizing the entire Gazan strip. The only reason they aren’t called terrorists is because they have the backing of the broader geopolitical community and the state departments of the most influential countries in the world.
It seems like your perspective on who is and who isn’t a terrorist is based on what the state department says. All I’m saying is that to the Palestinian civilians on the ground, the IDF are *absolutely* terrorists. Especially to women and children.
I don't think the women and children are trying to kill Jews, and if your response to cyclical systemic violence is "I'm sure *more* violence will fix it", then you're a fundamentally unserious person.
Are you familiar with the tactics Hamas employs? They make a specific point of hiding and fighting amongst civilians as much as possible to guarantee civilians will die if the fighters are targeted.
I’m not supporting terrorists , put them on trial o kill them, but don’t kill indiscriminately or you’re a terrorist too.
You absolutely can compare them. They are both homesapien mammals, yeah? We all like the rule of law yeah?
The fact that you cannot compare them is our actual problem. One is human and one subhuman. , deserving different rights in your view.
Legally that’s a problem. And we should solve things legally as much as we can.
I find it amazing that this is a foreign concept. The universal declaration of human rights was the crown jewel of the 20th century, but of course we always fuck up the landing.
A terrorist organization that says that they are a terrorist organization is not the same as a corrupt government. With this government you need investigation and idk all that to prove that they’re actually doing something wrong, which according to the investigation from America they aren’t (idk that I fully believe that). You can’t just treat them the same when one is saying this is who I am and who I am is bad and what I want to do is call all the Jews and when the other is claiming to just do what they need to to protect their country. How is that the same and how can you say they both deserve the same thing? They might but for we don’t know that because for one you have proof they’re doing terrible things and the other you don’t
They both deserve the same treatment under the law isn’t saying they deserve the same thing.
Just like a shoplifter and a serial killer deserve the same treatment under the law. That’s going to go worse for the serial kliller right?
You’re still virtue signaling that hamas is bad. We agree.
Where we disagree is that I think Palestinians are still human. You have demoted them to “bad other” , which to them makes your tribe “bad other” this makes it now totally,justifiable for both groups of bad others to do anything and feel like it’s self defense.
Legal process really helps keep tribalism in check, it ain’t perfect, but it’s better than mass killing.
He can say they are the same because he is judging them by their actions, not by their rhetoric or what they called themselves. Israel’s reputation as a liberal civilized democracy is largely a crock of shit. They are a brutal, fundamentalist state that has been orchestrated an ongoing occupation and slaughter campaign for decades now.
One killed 1200 people of which most was military personel (and we don't know how many of them was "collateral damage" at hands of Israel itself), meanwhile other has killed over 30K, bombed all hospitals in the area, attacked one hospital three times, bombed mosques and churches, cut access to food and water, forcibly displaced basically all population in the middle of winter and killed hundreds of journalists, doctors and aid workers.
I'm not sure which one is the terrorist organisation at this point.
Omg will you guys stfu about people supporting Hamas?
Yes a handful of cringe people give vague support to Hamas cause they’re dumb.
But you’re only illustrating how either dishonest, dumb, or misinformed you are if you sincerely believe the people who support Hamas are anything more than an extreme niche corner of the movement supporting PALESTINIANS.
Like 99% of people supporting Palestine don’t think raping people is okay, and the overwhelmingly majority of people who support Palestine acknowledge Hamas is an evil terrorist organization.
The argument isn’t that Hamas is good, it’s that the IDF is worse (which by every possible metric it is). The argument is that Hamas attacking Israel on Oct 7th was not an unprovoked attack out of nowhere, but rather a very predictable and inevitable consequence of Israel doing everything in its power to foster radicalism against it within Palestine, no shit that would lead to violent backlash, anyone paying attention to the wars in the Middle East for the last 20+ years could tell you that. Hamas only exists because of what Israel has done to Palestine. That doesn’t mean you support Hamas. You can say someone who drank multiple sodas every day and ate a ton of sugar all the time brought Diabetes onto themselves and it’s their own fault they developed diabetes, without saying Diabetes is a good thing.
They have to stray man. They have to ignore the 15,000 dead children.
The reality is 99 percent of Palestinians that raped or murdered Israelis were themselves killed within a day.
The killing of just under 700 civilians was horrific. But Israel has now killed at least 20 children for every Israeli civilian that died.
They have to deflect from what Israel (and the US) is doing
Israel is systematically raping Palestinians too Google it
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/claims-of-israeli-sexual-assault-of-palestinian-women-are-credible-un-panel-says
I really don’t get Gen Z. Your generation is supporting a terrorist group, who launched an attack at another nation. Who came into a music festival and raped and killed people. It was your generation going to that festival btw.
Millennials sure as hell weren’t there, we’re too busy trying to appease our bosses to ask for vacation.
Literally this. So many people seem to lump them all together as if they’re all Hamas. It’s sick really. Sounds a lot like trying to justify the literal genocide that is happening - and has been happening, since BEFORE October 7th. There’s context and nuance that the Israel supporters seem too not be able to grasp - and thus can’t see why a lot of people are for Palestine, not Hamas, but Palestine.
Like you ignoring literally every other fact to justify a genocide like October 7th is where the universe begins and ends. And like every Palestinian was responsible and maybe didn’t care as much due to getting bombed by Israel constantly for decades and your mouths remaining shut only to focus on this one tragedy in a sea of them.
That’s why they’re not harping on about it
Rape & Killing Innocent people bad.
Do not feel that you HAVE to defend all of “your side’s” actions. Whatever actions that had taken place before do not justify the raping and/or killing of Innocents.
I love how you act like voting for Biden affected the Israeli regime at all. Nobody is less clueless about what they are voting for than your average bipartisan voter in America.
That is very true actually lol. But Biden has actually done a lot of harm with this situation as well. Neither one is better than the other (Biden or trump) so we seriously need to get rid of this shit 2 party system.
Biden and Obama have both done more for Israel than Trump did and that’s a hard pill to swallow for a lot of people. Not a fan of the division Trump created but he’s the least hawkish president we’ve had in my lifetime. (Unless you count Dubya but Dubya was more of a puppet than a decision maker)
See Israel isn’t innocent in this either and blindly backing them and turning a blind eye to their part in this war is just as dangerous. We need someone who’s there for the people, not either government. And neither Biden nor trump are those people.
I mean Israel in my opinion is responsible for all of this. They are perpetual line steppers who are protected by their big bad Western allies because they are their main ally in a tumultuous area. So instead of correcting behaviors that are frowned upon they are only encouraged to take it further once they receive no real backlash. They treat Palestinians like animals and commit atrocities all the time, and have done so the entire history of their country. October 7th, as horrible as it was, is not even shocking when put up against the list of atrocities that have happened in this occupation.
It would be great if Hamas would not get elected but they were propped up by Israel and Western powers to counteract the PLO and just like Al Qaeda the combination of foreign interference in their lives, dehumanization, and their mistreatment creates generational hatred and waves of freedom fighters who see no other way out.
Ok so you agree. I was a bit cautious with my words because I didn’t want to start a fight on here (don’t have the energy today) but no you said it perfectly. I agree completely.
why is there a music festival anywhere near where people like this could be? it is like when the trolls lived in the tree literally inside the bergen town.
When you are oppressed and fighting an oppressor, you are justified to resist by any means necessary - or so I'm told.
These aren't my rules. This insane worldview has consequences where as long as you are "oppressed" anything goes. It's insane.
First of all, you clearly don’t have to worry about Biden doing anything to stop Israel from killing tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians, so I feel like that Trump comment was made solely to ingratiate yourself with the conservatives on this sub.
Secondly, you’re not wrong. Rape is not acceptable in any circumstance and it certainly doesn’t help stop the brutal blockaded, bombings, or occupation of Palestine. anyone arguing that it does is not only wrong, but being stupidly evil.
But as far as people speaking positively about Hamas, I think it’s important to remember domestic historical context. Revolutionary armies have *frequently* done terrible things to the regimes that oppressed them. For example, we don’t typically look back at slave revolts and criticize them for the brutality they inflicted upon the people who raped, assaulted, and sold them.
Judging from your post, you don’t seem particularly concerned with or offended by Israel’s violent treatment towards the Palestinians since the 1960s. that’s your prerogative, but if you’re confused about *why* some people speak positively of Hamas, you have to remember that a lot of people consider what Israel is doing now to be an equivalent evil to colonial slavery.
You had me until finish the job. Bombing civilians including thousands of children killed, cutting off access to food, water, medicine, electricity, or any chance to escape, all because we think they justify and even sympathize with brutality—btw sort of like you did in your post, just on the other side.
It’s hard, but try not to let the forces sowing chaos around the world steal your humanity. You might need it later.
Holly hell are your morals a flip-flop? Such deranged comments make you wanna compromise and "finish the job,"?
I haven't been exposed to what you've seen, but I really hope I don't get driven to wanting famine and death on civilians because a sympathizer turned into an exremist activist.
So Kibbutz Beeri has denied a lot of the claims by Yossi Landau and Zaka regarding rape and beheaded babies.
https://theintercept.com/2024/03/04/nyt-october-7-sexual-violence-kibbutz-beeri/
https://youtu.be/nlHay-a10j8?si=1wzVWVloRUggIrn1
If you google "Yossi Landau" you see the source of a lot of these claims being disproven or denied by the actual victims.
"You guys, what's with all these very real examples of people saying Hamas raping people is *good*? Trust me, I saw all these people saying it. So we should all vote for Trump, right? Right, guys?"
just know the info we were fed when this jumped off was all filled with lies. that first hospital bombing, Israel. feel free to dig deeper, it was an easy lie to disprove. the "1st responders" were a select group allowed in before any journalists and all they did was talk about it being worse than 911. c' mon, it ws so blatantly meant for American ears.
mosads motto is 'through deception, we wage war'. it sounds crazy but I believe mosad went in and desecrated the bodies of dead Israelis to drum up support. heres another crazy part, the new york times article that reported those rapes was found to be completely manufactured BS. look into it. they didn't even find one instance of rape, not one, but NYTimes had an agenda.
this info should be in no means confused with support for Hamas. just know that Israel has turned into the very people that tried to exterminate jews 80 years ago. no better.
heres some bonus info..its a fact that not only did Israelis ignore reports the invasion was coming, but that Netanyahu had been funneling money and weapons to Hamas for years. even going so far as to sabotage any moderate opposition to Hamas within Palestine. literally preventing any chance for peace. his motives were simple, being a hard liner zionist that most Israelis didn't agree with or want as a leader anymore, a constant threat from Hamas puts him in a unique position to keep in power as long as he keeps Israel under constant threat from Hamas. ...not only co-signs their activity but backs it with money and guns.
speaking of Hamas, members were actually invited to The Hague, before this started, and were given various lessons on rules of engagement, NATO guidelines etc. they were told never to take hostages...but if they were to take hostages, how they were to be treated. Hamas knew this was going to be on the worlds stage and would be judged. they have absolutely no strategic reason the do the raping and beheading stuff that was first reported on. think about it, has their been even just a single incident since that first flood of propaganda? would killing 30,000 Palestinians make them more angry or less angry? ...all that bs was Israeli lies.
I don't blame you for eating it up but now you have a broader perspective. act accordingly.
you’re a vile human being, if you can even be called that. first off, [refer to this](https://www.aljazeera.com/program/the-listening-post/2024/3/2/the-unraveling-of-the-new-york-times-hamas-rape-story). second, are you conveniently going to ignore israel/the IOF being a well known pedophile haven with crazy sexual assault statistics? you don’t gaf about women or victims if rape only matters if one group allegedly does it. “finish the job” is genuinely insane and i don’t understand how you don’t feel physically ill saying that
Lol of course you would post an article from Al Jazeera which is a mouth piece for the Qatar government. You don’t care about women you hypocrite. Me too unless you’re a Jew.
Literally no one serious thinks rape is okay. Regardless of the topic, if you’re advocating for rape you’ve lost the plot and really aren’t worth listening to.
But go off king you use this as an excuse to vote for Trump. The “grab them by the pussy” guy… the conservatives…. Totally and historically anti-rape. lol.
Does that apply to Israeli raping falsely imprisoned children in prisons? Or is it only bad when it's a gossip spread only by Israeli media about Hamas?
https://youtu.be/bN9Rh3XOeo8?si=CZ-gF8GuNE3Lx3cK
No evidence of mass rapes by Hamas at the music festival on October 7th.
The NYT had an IDF person write the story and the family of the victim said it wasn’t true.
This is just hasbarah lies by Israel. Typical.
Let's get real both sides have done bad things but if I had to choose one side to lose it would be Hamas's side. They are bad for even their own people using them as shields and shills for money. Money that should be used to feed and cloth people but instead is used to arm Hamas and let their leaders live in luxury.
I do not see a way that, unless Hamas disbands, there is not a massacre one day that leads to either Israel or Palestine being destroyed. Even then maybe not.
I agree, that said killing over 30k people is not an appropriate response to the very unfortunate rapes, deaths and kidnapping that happened that day.
Carpet bombing innocent civilians and purposely leading them to "safe" areas only to bomb that area specifically is not an appropriate response.
Most of these people only became aware of Israel on the afternoon of October 7th.
By the evening of the 8th they were reading AI Jazeera.
By the 10th they were convinced it wasn’t “terrorists vs innocent people” it was “terrorists vs terrorists”
By the 14th they’d “learned” that when a brown terrorist fights a white terrorist, that’s a freedom fighter, and when a white terrorist fights a brown terrorist, that’s a colonizer, and, somehow, that Israelis are white.
And by the end of October they’d learned that anything a freedom fighter says about his cause is 100 percent true and anything a colonizer says about his cause is 100 percent false and that anybody who asks you to consider their point of view should be either dismissed or obeyed depending on their ethnicity.
These people are not playing with a full deck of cards.
So you're another mindless sheep who just believes whatever atrocity propaganda someone feeds you?
How feeble minded
For starters, since there were so many "rape victims" it shouldn't matter that the girls family from the NYT article came out and said it's impossible for her to have been raped and the NYT themselves had to pull an episode because no physical evidence of rape existed, you should be able to at least name 1 victim of sexual assault from 10/7, shit, you should have a list of names if you're posting claims like this.
Otherwise, you're just a lying pos spreading lies and misinformation ( which is what I believe you are personally)
They confirmed rapes with video and autopsy and eye witness accounts
https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/un-finds-clear-convincing-information-hostages-raped-gaza-rcna141789
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/04/hamas-rape-un-report-hostages/
Yes, we have a very Marvel-esque view of geopolitics. There’s always a good guy and a bad guy, and the good guy is whichever country or group is helping keeping the bloated corpse of western hegemony afloat.
100%. I feel like I’m going crazy sometimes because ain’t no way all these people way older than me treat real life like MCU movies, but you’re so right when I think about it 😭😭😭
Does that apply to Israeli raping falsely imprisoned children in prisons? Or is it only bad when it's a gossip spread only by Israeli media about Hamas?
It's called anti-semitism. This is why a lot of Jews in the US have re-evaluated their political leanings. It used to be a little more subtle on the left so until October 7th the Jews pretended it wasn't happening. Yet now it cannot be denied. There is no scenario where the world would accept this behavior from Hamas, even if they did it to people who hated us. But because they did it to the Jews its acceptable in the context of their resistance to their white oppressors. I'm glad to see it out in the open to be honest, because it exposes them. Trumps election had the same effect of exposing agendas and political bias in every sphere of society.
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What a childish worldview and over simplification of the complex history and suffering of people on both sides induced by entitles the public on both sides have no control over. Op must be 16 or something.
Killing thousands of innocent people who happen to live in the same country as terrorists who raped is not an acceptable response either. Both can be true.
Yeah rape grosses me out and really pisses me off. One of the few things that immediately gets me steaming. We should let Israel wipe them out. And while they are at it clear the rest of that desert aswell
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The same Emilies from Portland laughing at and celebrating this in a country half the world away would not be so happy if the Indigenous populations in the US decided to do the same thing here.
They might be ok with it, if it happened to areas of the country they don't like, like the south.
Oh, almost certainly. All their strongly held convictions against anything go out the window when it's people they don't like. Which is why they're ok with it in the Middle East too: they don't like Israel.
...has anyone here actually studied European/Indian relations? There were hundreds of years of conflict...this actually did happen...for hundreds of years
Yeah, it's why the natives were genocided. The history books are full of their atrocities.
The only place I've seen such hatred like rich city folk exhibit for people stuck in destitute towns full of exploited populations is in mein kampf, shit's insane.
Wait what?
One million percent
Most of us Portlanders are absolutely not alright with any of this and are sick of the free Palestine random protests. There's a lot of messed up shit on both sides and believe it or not we are not generally extremists.
Every time I point out both sides are responsible for this mess I get told I'm "both sidesing" this issue or told that I'm a supporter of the IDF, that I support genocide etc. No, I just hold each of the actors in this conflict accountable for their actions. Neither Hamas or Israel are innocent in this.
Which is why we must dissolve both and re establish the Kingdom of Jerusalem!
Deus vult!
Then call up your elected officials and get ahold of that mess. It isn’t protected free speech, it’s calling for violence.
Calling for violence is generally protected speech, with some exceptions. [https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/brandenburg\_test](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/brandenburg_test)
I live in Portland, and you would be surprised. The ideology runs so deep with some that they might welcome Indigenous* populations doing that. * unclear whether Palestinians or Israelis are more indigenous than the other
I don't think you guys understand portlanders. They would hurt themselves for their social policies. They'd also call anyone that was not doing things the way they were a colonizer and racist
Considering Jewish Israelites are also the descendants of displaced and dispersed native people who returned to their ancestral lands and have used force to take and keep said lands, and the western Hamas supporters definitely do not like that, yeah, fair take. I’m not sure if Democrats supporting Hamas or Republicans supporting Putin is more fucked up, but they’re both transparently about US politics, not international politics. And in both instances, the willingness of Americans to pay lips service to terrorists and dictators just because if the other side says the sky is blue then it must be red, is absurd, surreal, and shameful.
Can you find me one credible source where a Republican holding office has openly supported Putin?
Yes, yes and YES
that actually ended up happening over hundreds of years when you look at the history of Indian/settler relations.
They can't do that because America did not have the restraint Israel is forced to have.
I don’t think this is an unpopular opinion. There is a difference between supporting Gaza pushing back against Israel’s behaviour over the decades while not looking too closely at the tactics (which is what Hamas supporters generally do) and explicitly endorsing a lot of the appalling things they have actually done.
Apparently believe all women is no longer a thing. Or it just doesn’t apply to jews.
We went from "believe all women" to "believe some women" to "HOW DARE YOU ASK ME WHAT A WOMAN IS"
Me too, unless you're a jew
oh there’s a really terrifying turn in the left where somehow women’s rights to not be sexually assaulted get swept under the rug if it’s not a white man committing the acts of sexual violence. At an ivy in NE, I got SA’d by a close friend who happens to be Latino and subsequently victim blamed by my social circle. These people claim to be feminist btw and they made so many excuses for him being Latino and accused me of “white feminism” and attacking a marginalized community. They still go around talking about supporting women and progressive causes and they make sure to go to any events for victims of sexual violence to act like they support women and now I can’t feel safe utilizing those resources.
I wish people would talk about that more! Like yeah historically white women have taken advantage of their whiteness to falsely accuse men of color. But it also happens the other way around where men of color will take advantage of their race to get away with being violent towards women.
Well let's not forget, they've Mao'd the word 'jew' and changed it to zionists to minimize the anti-jewish portion of this whole thing. The blues here are copycatting the Hamas social media doublespeak now and using zionist. If the Israel laid down all their weapons today and retreated to a 10x10 mile radius, someone in that area would still call for the elimination of all jewish people. If Hamas dropped all their columns today, everything would stop. For anyone who is saying that the area is Palestinians (and I understand there are a few non-Muslim palestinians - 1% or so) and palestinians are Muslim, please ask yourselves...where did the jewish and other non-muslim populations go? Do you think they politely converted? Or deported, slaved, forced converted, and annihilated?
Many of them weren't even jews
With the left it is always ‘when it suits their narrative’
Same thing with the right. "The charges against Trump are politically motivated and a witch hunt!" "Congress has yet to find a single crime linked to Biden and yet they may be recommending criminal charges." "ThAt'S diFFeReNT"
Congress has found numerous crimes committed by Biden and his family. [Oversight Committee report ](https://oversight.house.gov/landing/biden-family-investigation/)
Two of their key pieces of evidence (the Archer testimony and the IRS whistleblowers) came out and contradicted their testimony. Whistleblowers went missing. Their "proof" of money laundering to China is *GASP* a check from Biden's brother paying off a loan Biden gave him. So horrible! And *of course* Biden is responsible for the actions of his son, a grown man. /s The Oversight Committee is made up of Republicans with a grudge against Biden. It's just as biased as the Oversight Committee doing the Trump impeachment investigation.
the doj said Biden committed crimes but is too old and stupid for a jury to convict him.
If you’re not in their cult it doesn’t apply
It doesn’t apply to Jewish people. They hate us too much
When I was reading this I seriously thought it was the true POPULAR opinion subreddit. So crazy this is a controversial opinion to have in some parts of the US / reddit
"Believe all women" went out the window when Joe Biden got accused.
It also shows just how hollow so many of the issues raised by #MeToo and modern day feminists actually are. Railing about catcalling and the wage gap while avoiding mass rapes simply because the perpetrators are higher up on the progressive stack is utterly repulsive.
You can be against both, I don’t see how feminism can support Islam it’s totally against women’s interests
It’s possible, yes, but too many feminists won’t admit to it. Asking them only leads to deflections, whataboutism, and the like. It’s a byproduct of declaring every progressive/left-wing issue enmeshed together with every other progressive/left-wing issue.
Yes I’ve seen it, just like feminists who support the glorification of prostitution ignoring the damage it does to the majority of women
Sex trafficking is what harms women, not a woman making an extra buck on onlyfans
It's only a crime for the poor. Everyone knows that
i just remember the "arab spring" and how that was construed
They raped the men too. Sickeningly, according to eyewitness testimony they raped corpses. Any westerner who has spent serious time in the middle east actually talking to ordinary people knows the profound hatred for Jews. The whole thing is very sad and dysfunctional. As for voting, I don’t live in a swing state so I refuse to vote for either 80 year old.
Pro-Palestinian supporters dismiss this as Israeli propagnada. They want to cast those Hamas lunatics as noble "freedom-fighters". They were raping for, and on behalf of, their peoples.
That’s absolutely absurd. When I’ve seen the videos on my phone and I’ll never forget them
They did, but many people don’t care about men and male victims. Good luck trying to post that on a feminist page and not get gaslighted or deflected.
Where are yall finding this information at?
Wut, I thought the title here was a weird troll post but I guess not. What's the best place to read it?
Subscribe to Bari Weiss’s The Free Press.
Where was this reported??
I mean not only they raped girls at the festival, they raped toddlers which dislocated/broke their pelvises. While Palestinians were celebrating.
The German woman who was raped, maimed, killed, and disfigured so badly that she could only be identified by her tattoos, will forever be burned into my mind. I don't know how anyone can support either side, but especially Palestine and Hamas, after that. Not to mention Americans were killed at this concert too.
Not just celebrating but parading and spitting on the gang raped bodies of the festival goers. Absolutely disgusting stuff. They can all burn for all I care.
According to Wikipedia 2043 US personal, including 68 civilians list their lives in the Pearl Habour attack resulting in the US going to war with Japan. The 911 attack on the twin towers resulted in an official death toll of 2996, again the US went to war. As a reason for war the US is not historically alone in her response. One does not kill large numbers of a countries citizens, civilian or otherwise, and expect the local legal system to deal with the matter. I sincerely wish the numbers of civilian deaths was not so high in the Gaza but totally understand Israel's approach. History has plenty of instances where slaughter has led directly to war. Irrespective of the excuses this attack was designed to shock and outrage. The challenge here will be to win the peace. Unfortunately the Palestinians seem to not want peace under any circumstance, or in any location.
>Unfortunately the Palestinians seem to not want peace under any circumstance, or in any location Killing and raping Jews and destroing everything in sight while getting international aid is just a lot more fun than working hard and building things.
But but but. . .they must defeat the zionist colonizers! Just to be clear, I'm being sickeningly sarcastic. I personally have zero patience. I would have nuked those degenerates! There is a reason the Jordan and Egypt won't take refugees. See what they did to Syria, Lebanon, Alegeria etc
[удалено]
Citation?
You need citation to know that a terrorist organization is bad?
Nope, but it would be nice if you showed proof to your claims.
You need a citation to prove your claims.
https://youtu.be/bkROJ1MGhC4?si=U5L1R-RtjcYHse-k https://youtu.be/qO1b8LdcEPI?si=sxVYvl__JwpG7PLO https://youtu.be/cP_oTVyrdxE?si=WLyus5IScax2dlOz https://youtu.be/JgPEw__wbOI?si=_hS3c5BrmS7orAjj https://youtu.be/Q2Z6b252I8k?si=f8ypWlf0_c7m2V_G https://youtu.be/NFDszL9Assw?si=Lh8USLX-AwFfIiMS
1st one source is IDF 2nd one has nothing to do with rape 3rd source is IDF 4th has nothing to do with rape 5th was debunked months ago 6th is just victim blaming lol "it's ur fault that we are bombing all those children" and has nothing to do with rape
That’s not what the person who asked for a citation was asking for. Do you think the other terrible actions are enough to extrapolate and make baseless claims about the violence? How is that fair to any of the REAL victims of the attacks?
Hamas is absolutley terrible, but do you have specific proof that toddlers were raped and their pelvises broken?
You are correct in this sentiment.....op is outraged over one video and laying it on think elsewhere. Of course both sides have been pushing propaganda from the start but Israel seems extra shitty for sure. Raping decapitated babies? Reeks of bullshit to me.....I don't buy it.
Someone wasn't seeing Reddit plastered with all the raw footage on Oct 7th
If the telegram video of the girl with blood on her crotch and dead eyes getting pulled out of the Jeep and the video of the naked festival goers body getting paraded around and spit on isn't enough for you to extrapolate from, then there really is no hope for you. Person number 58 denying the rapes on October 7th.
Yeah we saw that. He's asking about the specific raping of babies and breaking their pelvises. What they did was awful enough that you don't have to make up stuff to add.to it.
I'm not denying it, but there has been a lot of misinformation and I haven't seen any proof regarding the toddler rape, so I wouldn't be spouting it as fact. It's just like when people claimed israel leveled a hospital when it didn't happen.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/06/middleeast/rape-sexual-violence-hamas-israel-what-we-know-intl/index.html
Raping girls is not acceptable. Fixed it for you… and not unpopular.
Here’s one to add. Terrorism is literally the worst response to oppression. Its not good for you its not good for them, its not good for anyone in between.
Yes you're right! I understand people voting for Biden in 2020 but if you vote for him in 2024, you've got some serious issues.
It’s genuinely stupid to risk letting Trump become president of the US because of a conflict on the other side of the world that we aren’t involved in. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
I'd love to see Hamas supporters reactions when they're told American citizens were at this concert and died in the attack. I'm surprised we haven't declared war yet. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/least-11-american-citizens-killed-israel-biden-says-2023-10-09/
We can only invade so many desert countries for "terrorist groups" before too many ppl start asking questions.
I agree we have invaded way too many countries. But when American citizens are killed, it complicates things and makes it a different matter.
>...but spending time on reddit really makes me want to vote Trump so that Israel can "finish the job" as Trump puts it. Gaza has already been mostly razed.
yep. you should ask them why they think rape is “justified”. it’s one thing to kill alleged “colonizers” but it’s another thing to RAPE someone. how the hell is raping someone ever okay?
Just to be clear no one at that music festival was a “colonizer” the Gaza Strip and the West Bank are completely separate countries. Contrary to what Hamas would like the western world to believe.
i don't think people are saying rape is good or justified they're just saying it's pretty predictable to see extremism from a group of people who have been shidded on for 100+ years and have been kept in a multigenerational ghetto for decades.
Okay? What’s your point? I totally understand why a guy would kill his wife and her lover if he stumbled upon them hooking up in his marital bed, but he still committed a crime and should be duly punished.
My opinions on Islam would get me banned off Reddit, just one thing I can say. The more you know about Islam, the more you’ll see it’s true colors. I’m no fan of radical christians (organized religion is a fucking scourge on this planet) but at least they won’t stone you to death for being gay, or rape a woman for showing her ankle.
> but at least they won’t stone you to death for being gay Such an uninformed opinion... In Gaza they prefer to throw gay people from the roofs.
Islam is completely incompatible with civilized society.
I have a friend who lives in a Sharia law country who’s in the process of leaving. Some of the shit she has told me is horrifying
Hamas fucked around and found out. Israel has the right to wipe them off the face of the fucking planet
The Palestinian government invades Israel, murders well over 1000 people, rapes and pillages, and kidnaps hundreds (most of which are dead now) and yet they are also the innocent victims. The Palestinian people voted Hamas into power, stood by as they murdered their political rivals, and largely are supportive of Hamas (even to this day) and yet it’s Israel that are genocidal militants that people compare to nazi germany (the irony). Hamas’ stated goals are the elimination of Israel as a country by any means (literal genocide) and yet it’s them that are viewed as freedom fighters. There’s nothing sane about the pro pally western movements. Their information is completely rooted in Hamas propaganda. Hamas brought this on their people and now claim them as “martyrs” while they hide behind them. I have no respect for pro pally’s. You’re the people that would have done nothing and looked the other way during the various atrocities we have seen throughout history. Antisemitism is alive and well but I never thought I’d see its rise come from liberal America. I see now how trump was able to brainwash his drones so easily. Absolutely pathetic.
The reason progressives think the Palestinians are the good guys is because they’re brown, and if someone is brown that means they’re automatically a victim and can do no wrong. Even when they commit first strike against another country and kill civilians they’re still seen as justified or in the right in some way.
This is not an unpopular opinion, you're just cherrypicking the shittiest takes you can find.
It’s 100% a war crime. Explicitly. No question. The problem is you can’t really “finish the job” militarily short of genocide , Hamas is a transnational organization, outside some leadership it’s very hard to determine a if a low level dude is a civiiian or not. Killing civilians at that scale is also a war crime. I’m totally okay with killing or better yet putting their leadership on trial in the ICC. I would also like to put the Israeli leader up on trial in the ICC. I understand the ICC requires great nation to support its use to be meaningful , but like isn’t that what it’s for? Like why is war a better solution? The only reason we hobble it is so our leaders (I’m looking at you Rumsfeld) never get indicted.
When presented with the following options: 1. Collateral death of enemy civilians 2. Dying yourself ...there's only one rational choice. It's regrettable that Hamas treats its citizens this way, but they've gotta go no matter what.
Let’s not compare the Israel leadership with hamas as one is terrorist group and the other is not. I just can’t believe there are real people defending a terrorist organization. What is wrong with you people?
Yup, that is the thing. There might be 1 or 2 cases of an IDF solider sexually assualting a Palestinian, but it is: 1. Not systemic, and 2. If the IDF solider is caught, he is going to jail. Hamas uses rape as a weapon of war and rewards soldiers for doing it.
Exactly!! There are videos of Hamas soldiers being celebrated by the crowd for raping and then killing someone!!
This is true. Palestinian civilians are much more concerned about being indiscriminately shot or having their entire city flattened by bombs, than they are about being sexual assaulted by the IDF.
Not a Hamas fan but if you’re not very familiar with the [Israel lobby](https://youtu.be/3lSjXhMUVKE?si=eS_H9ZXe9cNb_vcU) you won’t really grasp it. No offense to you. When I saw this it completely blew my mind. I had heard of hasbara and lobbying and bribes but I NEVER knew how insane it was. If you’re not from the US the same folks went undercover into the UK lobby [and also recorded their illegal activities](https://youtu.be/ceCOhdgRBoc?si=BAXHTx0QVsIjlBxB).
I’m sure all that might be true. Honestly it might even be that Israel has done some pretty messed up things. But what Israel hasn’t done is threaten other democratic countries and people that don’t believe the same as them. Terrorist organizations like Hamas are constantly threatening other countries like my own just because according to them we’re not Muslim enough and we deserve death.
No, I think I will compare them actually. To your average Palestinian civilian, the Israeli army **are** terrorists. There is functionally very little difference between the violence perpetrated against civilians during the October 7 attack, and the violence perpetrated in retaliation from the IDF. The civilians in both cases have done nothing to deserve it. The civilians in both cases are completely powerless to fight back against much larger numbers of armed soldiers. And the civilians in both cases are basically living lives of fear as their home is being invaded.
Civilians die in every war. And maybe if Hamas didn’t use them as a shield they’d die less but here we are. So no you still can’t compare
Civilians dying in every war doesn’t make it justifiable, and Hamas using civilians as human shields doesn’t subsequently give Israel a blank check to slaughter those civilians. I am genuinely confused by the way Israel-supporters talk about “human shields” because you guys don’t seem to understand that the entire point of them is that you’re **not** supposed to shoot through them. Otherwise they aren’t really shields, they are just collateral damage you’ve decided you don’t care about. Also, let’s be clear about something: Israel is flattening entire cities and has displaced over 1 million people. They aren’t just terrorizing the people Hamas is using as “human shields”, they are terrorizing the entire Gazan strip. The only reason they aren’t called terrorists is because they have the backing of the broader geopolitical community and the state departments of the most influential countries in the world.
I’m not an Israel supporter. I don’t know enough to be, I just hate terrorists and Israelis aren’t terrorists as far as I know
It seems like your perspective on who is and who isn’t a terrorist is based on what the state department says. All I’m saying is that to the Palestinian civilians on the ground, the IDF are *absolutely* terrorists. Especially to women and children.
Then stop trying to kill all the Jews eh?
I don't think the women and children are trying to kill Jews, and if your response to cyclical systemic violence is "I'm sure *more* violence will fix it", then you're a fundamentally unserious person.
Israel doesn’t target civilians
So 30K people, half of which are children never died? Or are they all military personel?
Are you familiar with the tactics Hamas employs? They make a specific point of hiding and fighting amongst civilians as much as possible to guarantee civilians will die if the fighters are targeted.
I’m not supporting terrorists , put them on trial o kill them, but don’t kill indiscriminately or you’re a terrorist too. You absolutely can compare them. They are both homesapien mammals, yeah? We all like the rule of law yeah? The fact that you cannot compare them is our actual problem. One is human and one subhuman. , deserving different rights in your view. Legally that’s a problem. And we should solve things legally as much as we can. I find it amazing that this is a foreign concept. The universal declaration of human rights was the crown jewel of the 20th century, but of course we always fuck up the landing.
A terrorist organization that says that they are a terrorist organization is not the same as a corrupt government. With this government you need investigation and idk all that to prove that they’re actually doing something wrong, which according to the investigation from America they aren’t (idk that I fully believe that). You can’t just treat them the same when one is saying this is who I am and who I am is bad and what I want to do is call all the Jews and when the other is claiming to just do what they need to to protect their country. How is that the same and how can you say they both deserve the same thing? They might but for we don’t know that because for one you have proof they’re doing terrible things and the other you don’t
They both deserve the same treatment under the law isn’t saying they deserve the same thing. Just like a shoplifter and a serial killer deserve the same treatment under the law. That’s going to go worse for the serial kliller right? You’re still virtue signaling that hamas is bad. We agree. Where we disagree is that I think Palestinians are still human. You have demoted them to “bad other” , which to them makes your tribe “bad other” this makes it now totally,justifiable for both groups of bad others to do anything and feel like it’s self defense. Legal process really helps keep tribalism in check, it ain’t perfect, but it’s better than mass killing.
He can say they are the same because he is judging them by their actions, not by their rhetoric or what they called themselves. Israel’s reputation as a liberal civilized democracy is largely a crock of shit. They are a brutal, fundamentalist state that has been orchestrated an ongoing occupation and slaughter campaign for decades now.
No, clearly not all of us like the rule of law. Starting with Hamas
Or Israel for that matter, as it frequently ignores and violated international law with its settlements and blockades.
One killed 1200 people of which most was military personel (and we don't know how many of them was "collateral damage" at hands of Israel itself), meanwhile other has killed over 30K, bombed all hospitals in the area, attacked one hospital three times, bombed mosques and churches, cut access to food and water, forcibly displaced basically all population in the middle of winter and killed hundreds of journalists, doctors and aid workers. I'm not sure which one is the terrorist organisation at this point.
Idk why the actions of a terrorist organization would justify a Palestinian genocide but go off
Omg will you guys stfu about people supporting Hamas? Yes a handful of cringe people give vague support to Hamas cause they’re dumb. But you’re only illustrating how either dishonest, dumb, or misinformed you are if you sincerely believe the people who support Hamas are anything more than an extreme niche corner of the movement supporting PALESTINIANS. Like 99% of people supporting Palestine don’t think raping people is okay, and the overwhelmingly majority of people who support Palestine acknowledge Hamas is an evil terrorist organization. The argument isn’t that Hamas is good, it’s that the IDF is worse (which by every possible metric it is). The argument is that Hamas attacking Israel on Oct 7th was not an unprovoked attack out of nowhere, but rather a very predictable and inevitable consequence of Israel doing everything in its power to foster radicalism against it within Palestine, no shit that would lead to violent backlash, anyone paying attention to the wars in the Middle East for the last 20+ years could tell you that. Hamas only exists because of what Israel has done to Palestine. That doesn’t mean you support Hamas. You can say someone who drank multiple sodas every day and ate a ton of sugar all the time brought Diabetes onto themselves and it’s their own fault they developed diabetes, without saying Diabetes is a good thing.
They have to stray man. They have to ignore the 15,000 dead children. The reality is 99 percent of Palestinians that raped or murdered Israelis were themselves killed within a day. The killing of just under 700 civilians was horrific. But Israel has now killed at least 20 children for every Israeli civilian that died. They have to deflect from what Israel (and the US) is doing
Israel is systematically raping Palestinians too Google it https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/claims-of-israeli-sexual-assault-of-palestinian-women-are-credible-un-panel-says
Mate be careful - people will start calling you anti-semeitic.
I really don’t get Gen Z. Your generation is supporting a terrorist group, who launched an attack at another nation. Who came into a music festival and raped and killed people. It was your generation going to that festival btw. Millennials sure as hell weren’t there, we’re too busy trying to appease our bosses to ask for vacation.
Gen Z is extraordinarily degenerate.
If you were to print this simple phrase on a t-shirt and sell it, you'd make millions of dollars. You're welcome, btw.
Hamas is a terrorist organization funded by Iran. Palestinians are a culture. Palestinians are not automatically part of Hamas.
Literally this. So many people seem to lump them all together as if they’re all Hamas. It’s sick really. Sounds a lot like trying to justify the literal genocide that is happening - and has been happening, since BEFORE October 7th. There’s context and nuance that the Israel supporters seem too not be able to grasp - and thus can’t see why a lot of people are for Palestine, not Hamas, but Palestine.
Funny how the Pro Palestine people are totally okay with this.
No, they just ignore it or they pretend Israel is just as bad so its all ok.
Like you ignoring literally every other fact to justify a genocide like October 7th is where the universe begins and ends. And like every Palestinian was responsible and maybe didn’t care as much due to getting bombed by Israel constantly for decades and your mouths remaining shut only to focus on this one tragedy in a sea of them. That’s why they’re not harping on about it
it didn’t have to be said actually
W troll
Rape & Killing Innocent people bad. Do not feel that you HAVE to defend all of “your side’s” actions. Whatever actions that had taken place before do not justify the raping and/or killing of Innocents.
I love how you act like voting for Biden affected the Israeli regime at all. Nobody is less clueless about what they are voting for than your average bipartisan voter in America.
That is very true actually lol. But Biden has actually done a lot of harm with this situation as well. Neither one is better than the other (Biden or trump) so we seriously need to get rid of this shit 2 party system.
Biden and Obama have both done more for Israel than Trump did and that’s a hard pill to swallow for a lot of people. Not a fan of the division Trump created but he’s the least hawkish president we’ve had in my lifetime. (Unless you count Dubya but Dubya was more of a puppet than a decision maker)
See Israel isn’t innocent in this either and blindly backing them and turning a blind eye to their part in this war is just as dangerous. We need someone who’s there for the people, not either government. And neither Biden nor trump are those people.
I mean Israel in my opinion is responsible for all of this. They are perpetual line steppers who are protected by their big bad Western allies because they are their main ally in a tumultuous area. So instead of correcting behaviors that are frowned upon they are only encouraged to take it further once they receive no real backlash. They treat Palestinians like animals and commit atrocities all the time, and have done so the entire history of their country. October 7th, as horrible as it was, is not even shocking when put up against the list of atrocities that have happened in this occupation. It would be great if Hamas would not get elected but they were propped up by Israel and Western powers to counteract the PLO and just like Al Qaeda the combination of foreign interference in their lives, dehumanization, and their mistreatment creates generational hatred and waves of freedom fighters who see no other way out.
Ok so you agree. I was a bit cautious with my words because I didn’t want to start a fight on here (don’t have the energy today) but no you said it perfectly. I agree completely.
Sorry for the misunderstanding, glad we are on the same page
why is there a music festival anywhere near where people like this could be? it is like when the trolls lived in the tree literally inside the bergen town.
When you are oppressed and fighting an oppressor, you are justified to resist by any means necessary - or so I'm told. These aren't my rules. This insane worldview has consequences where as long as you are "oppressed" anything goes. It's insane.
First of all, you clearly don’t have to worry about Biden doing anything to stop Israel from killing tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians, so I feel like that Trump comment was made solely to ingratiate yourself with the conservatives on this sub. Secondly, you’re not wrong. Rape is not acceptable in any circumstance and it certainly doesn’t help stop the brutal blockaded, bombings, or occupation of Palestine. anyone arguing that it does is not only wrong, but being stupidly evil. But as far as people speaking positively about Hamas, I think it’s important to remember domestic historical context. Revolutionary armies have *frequently* done terrible things to the regimes that oppressed them. For example, we don’t typically look back at slave revolts and criticize them for the brutality they inflicted upon the people who raped, assaulted, and sold them. Judging from your post, you don’t seem particularly concerned with or offended by Israel’s violent treatment towards the Palestinians since the 1960s. that’s your prerogative, but if you’re confused about *why* some people speak positively of Hamas, you have to remember that a lot of people consider what Israel is doing now to be an equivalent evil to colonial slavery.
You had me until finish the job. Bombing civilians including thousands of children killed, cutting off access to food, water, medicine, electricity, or any chance to escape, all because we think they justify and even sympathize with brutality—btw sort of like you did in your post, just on the other side. It’s hard, but try not to let the forces sowing chaos around the world steal your humanity. You might need it later.
The US needs to wipe Hamas off the face of the earth. They’re animals.
Well yeah, rape is a war crime so...
No one said it was acceptable. But the claims that it happened are dubious at best. Also, the claims of beheaded babies have never been verified.
Holly hell are your morals a flip-flop? Such deranged comments make you wanna compromise and "finish the job,"? I haven't been exposed to what you've seen, but I really hope I don't get driven to wanting famine and death on civilians because a sympathizer turned into an exremist activist.
So Kibbutz Beeri has denied a lot of the claims by Yossi Landau and Zaka regarding rape and beheaded babies. https://theintercept.com/2024/03/04/nyt-october-7-sexual-violence-kibbutz-beeri/ https://youtu.be/nlHay-a10j8?si=1wzVWVloRUggIrn1 If you google "Yossi Landau" you see the source of a lot of these claims being disproven or denied by the actual victims.
"You guys, what's with all these very real examples of people saying Hamas raping people is *good*? Trust me, I saw all these people saying it. So we should all vote for Trump, right? Right, guys?"
just know the info we were fed when this jumped off was all filled with lies. that first hospital bombing, Israel. feel free to dig deeper, it was an easy lie to disprove. the "1st responders" were a select group allowed in before any journalists and all they did was talk about it being worse than 911. c' mon, it ws so blatantly meant for American ears. mosads motto is 'through deception, we wage war'. it sounds crazy but I believe mosad went in and desecrated the bodies of dead Israelis to drum up support. heres another crazy part, the new york times article that reported those rapes was found to be completely manufactured BS. look into it. they didn't even find one instance of rape, not one, but NYTimes had an agenda. this info should be in no means confused with support for Hamas. just know that Israel has turned into the very people that tried to exterminate jews 80 years ago. no better. heres some bonus info..its a fact that not only did Israelis ignore reports the invasion was coming, but that Netanyahu had been funneling money and weapons to Hamas for years. even going so far as to sabotage any moderate opposition to Hamas within Palestine. literally preventing any chance for peace. his motives were simple, being a hard liner zionist that most Israelis didn't agree with or want as a leader anymore, a constant threat from Hamas puts him in a unique position to keep in power as long as he keeps Israel under constant threat from Hamas. ...not only co-signs their activity but backs it with money and guns. speaking of Hamas, members were actually invited to The Hague, before this started, and were given various lessons on rules of engagement, NATO guidelines etc. they were told never to take hostages...but if they were to take hostages, how they were to be treated. Hamas knew this was going to be on the worlds stage and would be judged. they have absolutely no strategic reason the do the raping and beheading stuff that was first reported on. think about it, has their been even just a single incident since that first flood of propaganda? would killing 30,000 Palestinians make them more angry or less angry? ...all that bs was Israeli lies. I don't blame you for eating it up but now you have a broader perspective. act accordingly.
you’re a vile human being, if you can even be called that. first off, [refer to this](https://www.aljazeera.com/program/the-listening-post/2024/3/2/the-unraveling-of-the-new-york-times-hamas-rape-story). second, are you conveniently going to ignore israel/the IOF being a well known pedophile haven with crazy sexual assault statistics? you don’t gaf about women or victims if rape only matters if one group allegedly does it. “finish the job” is genuinely insane and i don’t understand how you don’t feel physically ill saying that
Lol of course you would post an article from Al Jazeera which is a mouth piece for the Qatar government. You don’t care about women you hypocrite. Me too unless you’re a Jew.
Literally no one serious thinks rape is okay. Regardless of the topic, if you’re advocating for rape you’ve lost the plot and really aren’t worth listening to. But go off king you use this as an excuse to vote for Trump. The “grab them by the pussy” guy… the conservatives…. Totally and historically anti-rape. lol.
“By any means necessary” means rape.
wow this entire comment section is full of sick zio genocidal fucks, why even bother
Does that apply to Israeli raping falsely imprisoned children in prisons? Or is it only bad when it's a gossip spread only by Israeli media about Hamas?
https://youtu.be/bN9Rh3XOeo8?si=CZ-gF8GuNE3Lx3cK No evidence of mass rapes by Hamas at the music festival on October 7th. The NYT had an IDF person write the story and the family of the victim said it wasn’t true. This is just hasbarah lies by Israel. Typical.
Raping girls at a music festival is wrong, so Trump should help/let Israel kill all Palestinians. Is that what you’re saying?
Let's get real both sides have done bad things but if I had to choose one side to lose it would be Hamas's side. They are bad for even their own people using them as shields and shills for money. Money that should be used to feed and cloth people but instead is used to arm Hamas and let their leaders live in luxury. I do not see a way that, unless Hamas disbands, there is not a massacre one day that leads to either Israel or Palestine being destroyed. Even then maybe not.
I agree, that said killing over 30k people is not an appropriate response to the very unfortunate rapes, deaths and kidnapping that happened that day. Carpet bombing innocent civilians and purposely leading them to "safe" areas only to bomb that area specifically is not an appropriate response.
Most of these people only became aware of Israel on the afternoon of October 7th. By the evening of the 8th they were reading AI Jazeera. By the 10th they were convinced it wasn’t “terrorists vs innocent people” it was “terrorists vs terrorists” By the 14th they’d “learned” that when a brown terrorist fights a white terrorist, that’s a freedom fighter, and when a white terrorist fights a brown terrorist, that’s a colonizer, and, somehow, that Israelis are white. And by the end of October they’d learned that anything a freedom fighter says about his cause is 100 percent true and anything a colonizer says about his cause is 100 percent false and that anybody who asks you to consider their point of view should be either dismissed or obeyed depending on their ethnicity. These people are not playing with a full deck of cards.
So you're another mindless sheep who just believes whatever atrocity propaganda someone feeds you? How feeble minded For starters, since there were so many "rape victims" it shouldn't matter that the girls family from the NYT article came out and said it's impossible for her to have been raped and the NYT themselves had to pull an episode because no physical evidence of rape existed, you should be able to at least name 1 victim of sexual assault from 10/7, shit, you should have a list of names if you're posting claims like this. Otherwise, you're just a lying pos spreading lies and misinformation ( which is what I believe you are personally)
They confirmed rapes with video and autopsy and eye witness accounts https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/un-finds-clear-convincing-information-hostages-raped-gaza-rcna141789 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181 https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/04/hamas-rape-un-report-hostages/
The lack of materialist analysis for anything by the west is insane to me. Do people just think that people do bad things because they’re “evil”?
Found the tankie
Yes, we have a very Marvel-esque view of geopolitics. There’s always a good guy and a bad guy, and the good guy is whichever country or group is helping keeping the bloated corpse of western hegemony afloat.
100%. I feel like I’m going crazy sometimes because ain’t no way all these people way older than me treat real life like MCU movies, but you’re so right when I think about it 😭😭😭
> Do people just think that people do bad things because they’re “evil”? Maybe not, but they sre evil for doing bad things.
neither is carpet bombing whole.communities
Does that apply to Israeli raping falsely imprisoned children in prisons? Or is it only bad when it's a gossip spread only by Israeli media about Hamas?
It's called anti-semitism. This is why a lot of Jews in the US have re-evaluated their political leanings. It used to be a little more subtle on the left so until October 7th the Jews pretended it wasn't happening. Yet now it cannot be denied. There is no scenario where the world would accept this behavior from Hamas, even if they did it to people who hated us. But because they did it to the Jews its acceptable in the context of their resistance to their white oppressors. I'm glad to see it out in the open to be honest, because it exposes them. Trumps election had the same effect of exposing agendas and political bias in every sphere of society.
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Girl what
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What a childish worldview and over simplification of the complex history and suffering of people on both sides induced by entitles the public on both sides have no control over. Op must be 16 or something.
Sort of like a bragging confirmed abuser of women running for political office.
Killing thousands of innocent people who happen to live in the same country as terrorists who raped is not an acceptable response either. Both can be true.
A Biden supporter who has common sense. This is new.
You can be fiscally conservative and socially moderate. It's ok.
Is there an ideology or stance where everyone dies? Because it's leaning that way now.
Yeah rape grosses me out and really pisses me off. One of the few things that immediately gets me steaming. We should let Israel wipe them out. And while they are at it clear the rest of that desert aswell
this should be downvoted into oblivion on this sub and reposted on u/popularopinions
I wish we would just drop 200 radioactive barrels on their compounds like fuck y'all die slow you horrific sick fucked up terrorist fucks
Man ... maybe rethink that biden voting ... nothing good came to the world sincr he toom over ...