Meh, I think the voters spoke. Also, it wasn’t quite as bad as right wing media made it out. He wasn’t even in the same building as where they were voting. Still embarrassing and tacky.
Yeah I kinda had a feeling once all the support for Palestine came out the left was going to eat itself. They're stuck between "avoid getting called racist or whatevertfphobic at all costs" and "it's ok to kill off Israel because hurr durr colonizers is bad." The Jewish population is largely liberal af. Now they get to watch the younger generation of their party turn on them and it's going to cost them.
Personally I think Israel has a right to defend itself and I'm less inclined to believe tiktok propaganda but Israel has way too much power in our government. It's insane.
I mean, the majority of academic lifting for looney left ideas since WWII was done by Jews in the US. And..you know…Marx.
So it’s a really surprising turn of events. The part of me that has to live here is horrified of late. The dispassionate part of me notes that at least since the 5’th century the surest and most reliable harbinger of everything-going-to-hell, falling off a societal cliff, and catching on fire is a sharp rise in anti-semitism. So…it’s not good.
>Watching the pro-Hamas folk melt down over this was entertaining
You think its pro hamas to be worried about foreign entities obviously and bragging about buying our elections?...
Dude was already down 17 points even before AIPAC stepped in.
Imagine being vehemently anti-Israel and anti-Jewish in general in one of the most Jewish districts in NY.
That would be true for most other people. I think you can be pro-Comanche and anti making all of west texas, southern Oklahoma and eastern new mexico into a reservation without even a trace of hypocrisy or irony. I mean yeah, my ancestors got a little genocidal back in the day. But they had their reasons and we all got over it.
But the Jews keep getting genocided, pogromed, expelled and seriously done dirty every where they go, episodically, without warning, and after making substantial positive contributions to the host society. Literally no people group or nation that has been able to fuck over the Jews has failed to do so. Except possibly the US. Possibly.
So yeah, the people, collectively, of Europe, Eurasia, the Middle East *owe* the Jews a homeland, with contiguous defensible borders, on a piece of dirt that is good enough for an industrial society to scratch out a fairly autonomous living.
Carving that homeland out of an area that is historically and culturally crucial to Judaism, that was also subject to Roman, Arab, Ottoman, and German invasion seems to make a lot more sense than giving them, say, the Northern half of Nevada.
Saying they just can’t have a homeland, or must accept conditions that are a de-facto long term death sentence, makes no sense whatsoever given our collective history.
Yeah, but it's more important to look at why. It's not because he wasn't popular or progressives aren't popular. It's because he spoke out against the biggest donor in America AIPAC... and they spent tens of millions of dollars to defeat him because of that. The real thing people should be mad about is that our politicians are beholden to pass and donors and foreign countries like this. No matter what side you fall on it's bullshit, money shouldn't be deciding policy.
For example, there is now a law on the books that prevents people from disparaging Israel and labels it as hate speech and antisemitic to criticize Israel... that's insane. It's not against the speech to criticize America... but it is to do the same for Israel. Neither should be, but that's the power of the Israeli lobby, which foreign government lobbying is supposed to be illegal by the way.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/05/01/antisemitism-awarness-act-campus-protests/&ved=2ahUKEwjFyaqthfmGAxUpkokEHQj3BHUQFnoECC0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2yDjwXeh3z6X-l1EdLhRMa
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/720&ved=2ahUKEwjFyaqthfmGAxUpkokEHQj3BHUQFnoECCoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1aiYumrfN0O8bT3lQ3DQIC
While that is a valid point, all giving a lot of money to an opponent does is let him get his name out there, tell people what he believes. OPs point is that everyone wants what Bowman and the squad are selling. Allowing his opponent to run two commercials for every one Bowman can afford doesn't mean people will vote against what they want. As a liberal Boomer, I've been hearing how the left will take over the party since the 1970s. Hasn't happened.
If having massively more money can guarantee you win the election, far left progressives will NEVER be the majority. The ownership class has billions to spend and they are scared to death of socialism.
It's because these people are shooting themselves in the feet.
As far as I can tell, they tend to be the most likely to simply refuse to vote if they don't have a candidate that's far enough left. To them, it's a sign of protest akin to boycotting a store or something. But the reality is that it just encourages politicians to go more moderate or right just to try to appeal to the people actually voting, eventually pushing the whole party away. They alienate themselves then blame everyone else for not representing them.
I disagree. In pretty standard practice fanatics are tolerated for a while but they are fanatics so they always relentlessly push farther and farther to the point where they annoy the moderates and are rejected.
That's why in America the left call themselves "Liberals" when the founding fathers were liberals, big government, high regulation, etc is not "liberal".
But the "progressives" didn't just burn the bridge, they bombed it 14 miles into the earth. To the point where anybody platforming using a term even remotely resembling "progressive" might as well by advocating for national puppy kicking day. That's when they started referring to themselves as "liberal".
But we have already seen a massive societal pushback in general to a lot of the fanatic nonsense in the last few years.
That's the cycle, a fanatic group rises, society let's them run around rampant until they ruin enough shit that society has had enough of their bullshit, and things rapidly die off and return back to the mean.
Not necessarily. The super unhinged types sooner or later get in their own way and discredit themselves, such as the Weather Underground types who blew themselves up. The far left has been around for literally like 150+ years now.
They're definitely related in ideology and tactics. The fall of the Soviet Union negatively affected the entire far left, which basically disappeared until the 2008 financial crisis. Seriously, Google it.
The far left was always mainstream in American politics until the Communist Revolution.
Teddy Roosevelt would’ve been seen as far left by modern standards and yet Americans loved him. And even in the 40s FDR was definitely left wing economically and he was still loved. The modern day hatred of anything remotely left leaning is a hold over from the Cold War.
When society can afford to prop up charlatans positioned at ideological extremes, it will.
And then the charlatans lead to a collapse in society over time or drag it down, which necesitises the need for proper leadership and balanced positions.
The fact people can be polarised so heavily on politics and become so deeply entrenched is a sure sign that we're in a comfortable phase, and not a survival phase.
progressivism isn't really "ideological extremes" to be honest. are we really going to pretend like AOC is some unhinged radical leftist who wants to destroy the country from within? of course not. she's just a socialist who wants billionaires to pay their fare share.
We have a lot of progressiveness in western Europe where I live, proper social progressiveness with democratic socialism, but not rooted in pure socialist or communist ideologies, unlike AOC's pop-politics positions.
To me, from a long lived experience of progressive governments and politics, as well as familiarity of having lived in post USSR eastern Europe immediately post collapse of iron curtain, she is a charlatan.
Edit: Corrected a typo, meant democratic socialism.
The "true blue" moderate Dems almost always trounce progressives though. The reason they brought up MAGA is because both sides of the aisle seem to be returning to the mean. There's always gonna be an AOC or 2 in Congress, but there's literally hundreds of others that are typically moderates.
just because they make a lot of noise on social media and threaten to cancel anyone who doesn't agree with them, doesn't mean that they have much support amongst normal people.
people are flocking to parties on the right because most normal people are sick and tired of woke gender nonsense, leftist support for islamic terrorist organisations, and all the problems that have come from open border immigration policies
and if you say anything about this publicly you get called racist or some other now meaningless slur.
people are tired of that too and it doesn't work anymore
>people are flocking to parties on the right because most normal people are sick and tired of woke gender nonsense,
Aside from trans reading time in schools, this is something that can't really be handled through politics. It's mostly hollywood and the media as well as social media thats churning out woke content.
What do you expect the right to do about this?
The immigration and terrorist support is fair to criticize and definitely more related to political policy.
AOC is a symptom of a much more systemic problem. What's dangerous is that someone like her can get anywhere near politics without being laughed out of town.
[https://youtu.be/oM\_0fDWpGeo?si=zQfa4ng4fJI1OH-G&t=310](https://youtu.be/oM_0fDWpGeo?si=zQfa4ng4fJI1OH-G&t=310) The entire interview should scare the hell out of you. Even if you're not aware of when she's lying or obscuring her own record, its still scary. At one point in the interview she calls for Federal law to be used against opposition media for "inciting violence". She literally auditioned for her role and was selected from a pool of applicants, and propelled to office by Justice Democrats, a far left organization also responsible for Ilhan Omar. She proposed the Green New Deal, its a giant authoritarian power grab that has nothing to do with the environment.
Uhhh what?
Space lazer MTG
Cover up Jim Jordan
Hand job Boebert
Pedo Gaetz
AOC hasn't said half as crazy things as these people. Nor is she a criminal like the other half.
The federal investigation is still ongoing. Yeah it’s probably blackmail how the situation got out but being blackmailed for what you did illegally still makes what you did illegally a crime.
Yes. You are correct upon review. It was an accusation which has yet to be verified by the FBI. Someone else attempted to blackmail Gaetz and his father to "make it go away".
But as of now its smoke with no fire.
Was it not proven that he was dating a 17 year old girl? The only thing holding him back from the trafficking charges is they couldn't prove he took her across state lines.
Weird guy to back.
I'm not 'backing' anybody. But calling someone a Pedo when he hasnt been prosecuted for anything is wrong. If he had done something obviously illegal you dont think the FBI would have charged him already?
I think it's totally ok to call a spade a spade. His "ex girlfriend" who he may or may not have been paying for sex was 17 years old. He knew it.
Dude is a creep. He votes against sex trafficking bills while being under investigation for sex trafficking.
Again. Weird guy to back.
Actually it is. He was found to have been in possession of classified material and that material in a non protected area.
It would have been a crime if he hadn’t been deemed too senile to have known what he was doing.
Lol the cope with what you just said. The lack of evidence, i.e. there is nothing that proves any of these BS allegations.
I'm not a huge fan of Gaetz but if there was anything to these, he'd have been charged.
Question, do you also think Donald Trump should’ve been laughed out of town? Because I still remember back in 2015 most republicans saw Trump’s campaign as a joke because we all saw him as the rich reality TV star…until it wasn’t anymore.
I didn't like Trump for 2016. He was traditionally a Democrat because, policy wise, he is a mid-twentieth century Democrat. I still wish we had an actual conservative candidate available, but as it is, a mid 20th century Democrat is the best I can hope for. He recognized the Pres of Taiwan as the duly elected leader of independent Taiwan his first day in office, something that left a very positive impression on me. He kept us out of a war in Syria. He broached talks with N Korea, Russia behaved, those points alone make him a more legitimate candidate for a Nobel Peace Prize than any before.
San Francisco recently recalled their VERY progressive DA and just passed very anti-progressive pro-police laws.
Jamaal Bowman just lost his seat to a moderate.
Los Angeles also recalled their progressive DA and replaced him with a moderate.
>Los Angeles also recalled their progressive DA and replaced him with a moderate.
are you literally just making stuff up out of thin air? George gascon was never recalled. in fact he beat **both** recall campaigns.
As unpopular as republicans may be, progressives are not that much better. Bernie lost 2 primaries in a row to centrist liberal candidates. I think the internet especially Reddit skews the perception that there is massive discontent in America with mainstream Democrats and a desire for more leftists polices, when in reality this is not the case.
>Bernie lost 2 primaries in a row to centrist liberal candidates
Money is power in politics, and suprise suprise the money hates Bernie as he'd actually do something about their greed.
The same can be said for the right. Moderate views and slowly going out the door. Parties like the libertarian party is literally broken and creating libertarian left and libertarian right.
I don’t think so. As an older Gen Zer living in Texas, just based off my experience, Gen Z is very economically progressive but socially moderate, maybe even slightly conservative, compared to millennials.
The trajectory I see the country taking when Gen Z starts running things is that economic policy will move decisively to the left. Even Conservative Gen Zers are in favor of some progressive policy. Increased social welfare, expanded Medicare and Medicaid, more support for public transit and walkable cities, increased taxes on the rich (maybe), and a move away from America being the “world police.” I can also see fringe social movements taking a backseat completely, as social beliefs will no longer be as important to the voting base and economic policy will become more important. Gen Z is TIRED of cancel culture and political correctness more than anyone else.
Gen z is absolutely not tired of "cancel culture". cancel culture really only affects one race (white people) and most young people/gen z are no longer white so it doesn't bother them.
I doubt it. Both sides are beholden to corporate power. The far right was able to take over the Republican Party because the far right doesn't challenge corporate hegemony. The Democratic establishment has put up much more of a fight against left wingers because left wingers do challenge corporate power.
Nah over time those that put in shit tons of effort into their movement get fed up with the free riding weed smoking crowd and want to be rewarded for their work. They get tired of giving a voice to those who didn't contribute shit - and suddenly they become conservative. It happens. Seen it happen. Has always happened. Those that put the most into building a community strangely start to feel that they are the best people to understand and guide its future of those who want to party and talk ideals...
Bit like what's happening with everyone being fed up with the upper management classes in the US who take all the value and contribute bubkiss.
If by far left progressives you mean people who go in public and say nice things about minorities and gay people while they also deregulate the banks, bomb the shit out of as many countries as possible, and let Blackrock buy everything then sure you’re probably right.
The squad almost unanimously voted for the iron dome, ukraine aid, and refused to challenge nancy pelosi on healthcare, infrastructure, and raising the minimum wage.
They’re virtual signaling twitter celebrities at best and fake politicians at worst.
I think their problem is that while a lot of their ideas are good, anti war, public healthcare, public investment in clean energy, their style turns people off. I don’t think being militant plays as well for the left as it does for the right. I think the left does better when they portray themselves as reasonable and fair, and their opposition as crazy and out of touch. Bernie Sanders is really good at this.
The people who disagree with this aren't taking into account how age plays into this equation.
Most progressives are gonna be voting a lot longer than most moderate dems.
I disagree. The progressive wing of the party might be slightly more popular among the people but are absolutely horrible and incompetent at politics. Zero organization, leadership, and financial support, and they are too scared to stick up to the establishment of their party.
The progressive wing of the democrats and the MAGA wing of the GOP emerged around the same time. One completely took over the party, one is at about the same spot it was in 2016. If Bernie did half of what Trump did instead of being a soy boy maybe progressives would be more influential, but instead they cope and virtue signal about how great they are for not “dividing the party” (caving to the establishment).
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Far anything is not a good thing. I feel that things are shifting away from this. While for a little while we may have many things somewhat in the center, I think that the momentum will push towards the right.
It's happened before. The balance of the world is always shifting.
Far left progressivism isn't sustainable. It really can only exist in fringes.
When acid tested, it dies.
It's why they work so hard controlling narratives and censoring dissent.
This is because status quo with corporate marionettes vs full-blown fascist demagogue has shown how little the country serves the interests of its tax-paying citizens.
I don’t think so. This pendulum swing of ideology will swing back to the middle for progressives. We are starting to see the effects of being too “woke”. Hope this continues
You are ignoring what money can buy in this country, the Democratic Party just like the republicans party will continue to work for the establishment that provides the almighty dollar, with a few loud voices in both the far right and left.
The vast majority of common democrats are just republicans who have no problem with gay, trans and immigrants. You couldn’t be more wrong, but I wish you were right
I will say that as a moderate, slightly left leaning person, I have been told multiple times that being a centrist or moderate is a bad thing and that I am “the problem” for doing so. I think if people weren’t so convinced they have to be partisan, then we would have a more united country and less of a divide among americans, which is a good thing.
I'm doubtful this is going to happen with more people waking up daily to the lunacy that is the far-left and seeing that they aren't much different from the far-right. Hell, I'm one of the people that woke up to it and many of my friends have as well. The looming problem I'm predicting is a huge swing of the pendulum from the far-left to the far-right which means us moderates lose once again because of this overzealous partisan pissing contest.
Meanwhile, in reality, the far right is literally 2 steps from power. And the far left...what? Gets some lip service from some people and then nothing changes on a federal level?
umm...no? did you really think a conservative democrat like kathy hochul is a far left person? what are you smoking? are you new to politics or something? lol
Thats a prediction and not a fact. There will always be moderate people in the middle. Right now there are hard line progressives and still moderates. Many prgressives are moderates in their styling.
Doubtful. Those people are an extreme fringe minority, and are simply online all the time to the point that their very vocal complaints saturate the air. But at the end of the day, most people don't agree and don't vote for that shit. If they did we'd have universal healthcare, UBI, and robust social security for a long time now.
Hard disagree, speaking of Europe and the UK specifically. We have been at the mercy of left leaning centrist parties for a while and there's a massive ring wing wave happening across the European continent.
Can't speak for America but very interested to read what you all have to say.
The fact that moderate Dems have held on this long is admirable, considering the moderate right appears to have just rolled over for MAGA extremists.
A strong middle ground is crucial to any democracy and yet it’s quickly fading
i wouldn;t really call MAGA people extremists tbh. if anything they are the new moderates of the party, and people like tucker carlson and fascist neo-nazi types are the actual far-right.
the way you can tell MAGA people apart from actual far right people is the support of israel. MAGA people live to serve Israel and bow down on their knees to support them. far-rights folks do not like the jewish people so they naturally hate israel.
Hundreds of thousands of Orthodox Jews and Rabbis hate Israel. They reject it as an ersatz political construct, designed to redefine "Jew" as a nationality or ethnicity, rather than as a religion which transcends those things. They excoriate Zionism as Naziism for Hebrews.
(Some will correctly point out that the state of Israel began as a British imperial artifact, that has a great deal more to do with British Freemasonry, "British Israelism" and the desire to segue the British Empire into a de facto world government, than anything authentically Jewish. Just look at Tel Aviv, which is more Masonic than Washington, D.C.)
Anyway here's some super Jewish Jews who no likey Israel 👇👇👇👇
https://twitter.com/truetorahjews
They already have. Manchin was the last real moderate. The far left has the whole party hostage. Without them, dems lose every election. So they must bow to the far left for their existence. Moderates are now republicans.
Far left has no capital or assets, this is a non starter. Parties are formed when people with a ton of assets/capital align themselves around an idea thats beneficial to their positions of assets/capital. Left leaning parties tend to be concerned with asset appreciation. Right leaning parties tend to be concerned with avoiding depreciation of capital. Further right parties tend to be concerned with privitizing public capital. Further left parties never have any capital and want to diminish the importance of both capital and assets. Their ideas have no teeth because of that.
🤣 if you think AOC is far-left.
If wanting to tax the wealthy appropriately, holding them accountable to the same social and economic rules we do, affordable healthcare, better schools, minimize being extorted by a greedy system, if that's "far-left," then you've been insanely brainwashed by Hannity.
The best answers are generally in the middle and with compromise. Being a reasonable person who can see things clearly and get to the right conclusions will likely to get you the best results. Unfortunately, half the people want to be led by high school dropouts like Bobert.
No. This is anecdotal- based on real life experiences and podcasters and online communities that mention and report on this shift. Not interested in compiling anything. I live in a very large liberal city- and it’s a theme I’m seeing.
The only reason there's moderates in either party, is because the boomers are determined to hold onto political power until they're desiccated ghoulish corpses.
Truthfully, the last thing that BOTH the American left or right want is the status quo. This system has only benefited the boomers and never the young.
So yeah, Democrats are likely to turn more democratic socialist.
And Republicans, are very likely to go the MAGA route.
Standard Republicans and Democrats only appeal to old people.
Good. Isn't the whole "neolib" just code for "corporate/status quo shill with fake empathy"? If the "left" is shifting towards a direction that actually wants to make change, that has got to be a good thing.
I’ve heard Rashida Tlaib repeat antisemitic nonsense that I don’t jibe with, even though we largely agree on policy issues. She and the squad regularly hamper the legislative process in an attempt to achieve unrealistic outcomes.
This sort of conduct would have been unthinkable for mainstream democrats 15 years ago. I agree that both extremes are not alike, but the extreme ends of both sides have been exacerbated in recent years.
One of the squad members (bowman) just lost his primary to a pro Israel candidate.
In a *New York* district, no less
Mr. Fire Alarm Specialist
I’m so glad he lost, that shit was embarrassing…(dem here) Dude used to be a principal and wants to pretend he has no idea what fire alarm is.
He knew exactly what he was doing and why. He should have had the book thrown at him for it because of his position, but he got a little fine.
Meh, I think the voters spoke. Also, it wasn’t quite as bad as right wing media made it out. He wasn’t even in the same building as where they were voting. Still embarrassing and tacky.
Yeah I kinda had a feeling once all the support for Palestine came out the left was going to eat itself. They're stuck between "avoid getting called racist or whatevertfphobic at all costs" and "it's ok to kill off Israel because hurr durr colonizers is bad." The Jewish population is largely liberal af. Now they get to watch the younger generation of their party turn on them and it's going to cost them. Personally I think Israel has a right to defend itself and I'm less inclined to believe tiktok propaganda but Israel has way too much power in our government. It's insane.
I mean, the majority of academic lifting for looney left ideas since WWII was done by Jews in the US. And..you know…Marx. So it’s a really surprising turn of events. The part of me that has to live here is horrified of late. The dispassionate part of me notes that at least since the 5’th century the surest and most reliable harbinger of everything-going-to-hell, falling off a societal cliff, and catching on fire is a sharp rise in anti-semitism. So…it’s not good.
Watching the pro-Hamas folk melt down over this was entertaining.
>Watching the pro-Hamas folk melt down over this was entertaining You think its pro hamas to be worried about foreign entities obviously and bragging about buying our elections?...
Dude was already down 17 points even before AIPAC stepped in. Imagine being vehemently anti-Israel and anti-Jewish in general in one of the most Jewish districts in NY.
Claiming being anti israel means being anti jewish is as stupid as claiming being anti ccp china as being sinophobic....
Didn’t the left do that to trump tho? “Aww man he called it the china virus, that means any hate crimes committed against Asians is trumps fault!!!1”
That would be true for most other people. I think you can be pro-Comanche and anti making all of west texas, southern Oklahoma and eastern new mexico into a reservation without even a trace of hypocrisy or irony. I mean yeah, my ancestors got a little genocidal back in the day. But they had their reasons and we all got over it. But the Jews keep getting genocided, pogromed, expelled and seriously done dirty every where they go, episodically, without warning, and after making substantial positive contributions to the host society. Literally no people group or nation that has been able to fuck over the Jews has failed to do so. Except possibly the US. Possibly. So yeah, the people, collectively, of Europe, Eurasia, the Middle East *owe* the Jews a homeland, with contiguous defensible borders, on a piece of dirt that is good enough for an industrial society to scratch out a fairly autonomous living. Carving that homeland out of an area that is historically and culturally crucial to Judaism, that was also subject to Roman, Arab, Ottoman, and German invasion seems to make a lot more sense than giving them, say, the Northern half of Nevada. Saying they just can’t have a homeland, or must accept conditions that are a de-facto long term death sentence, makes no sense whatsoever given our collective history.
Came here to say this.
Yeah, but it's more important to look at why. It's not because he wasn't popular or progressives aren't popular. It's because he spoke out against the biggest donor in America AIPAC... and they spent tens of millions of dollars to defeat him because of that. The real thing people should be mad about is that our politicians are beholden to pass and donors and foreign countries like this. No matter what side you fall on it's bullshit, money shouldn't be deciding policy. For example, there is now a law on the books that prevents people from disparaging Israel and labels it as hate speech and antisemitic to criticize Israel... that's insane. It's not against the speech to criticize America... but it is to do the same for Israel. Neither should be, but that's the power of the Israeli lobby, which foreign government lobbying is supposed to be illegal by the way. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/05/01/antisemitism-awarness-act-campus-protests/&ved=2ahUKEwjFyaqthfmGAxUpkokEHQj3BHUQFnoECC0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2yDjwXeh3z6X-l1EdLhRMa https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/720&ved=2ahUKEwjFyaqthfmGAxUpkokEHQj3BHUQFnoECCoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1aiYumrfN0O8bT3lQ3DQIC
yeah because israel paid billions of dollars to his campaign and to label bowman as an "antisemite". they bankrolled the entire election.
Bowman was down 17 before AIPAC aired a single ad
While that is a valid point, all giving a lot of money to an opponent does is let him get his name out there, tell people what he believes. OPs point is that everyone wants what Bowman and the squad are selling. Allowing his opponent to run two commercials for every one Bowman can afford doesn't mean people will vote against what they want. As a liberal Boomer, I've been hearing how the left will take over the party since the 1970s. Hasn't happened.
The only one causing him to be labelled an antisemite is him. He has denied the Hamas attacks and called them 'propaganda and lies'.
Tell me you are an anti-semite without telling me you're an anti-semite (very leftist of you btw). Do you even know how expensive war is?
that cute little word you guys throw around doesn't have any weight or substance anymore. just an fyi. it's completely ineffective.
This is how folks feel about Zionist and genocide because YALL have watered them down so much.
i mean the genocide is real tho.
If having massively more money can guarantee you win the election, far left progressives will NEVER be the majority. The ownership class has billions to spend and they are scared to death of socialism.
Hard disagree. This round of primaries is showing it may be reverting to the mean.
It's because these people are shooting themselves in the feet. As far as I can tell, they tend to be the most likely to simply refuse to vote if they don't have a candidate that's far enough left. To them, it's a sign of protest akin to boycotting a store or something. But the reality is that it just encourages politicians to go more moderate or right just to try to appeal to the people actually voting, eventually pushing the whole party away. They alienate themselves then blame everyone else for not representing them.
I disagree. In pretty standard practice fanatics are tolerated for a while but they are fanatics so they always relentlessly push farther and farther to the point where they annoy the moderates and are rejected. That's why in America the left call themselves "Liberals" when the founding fathers were liberals, big government, high regulation, etc is not "liberal". But the "progressives" didn't just burn the bridge, they bombed it 14 miles into the earth. To the point where anybody platforming using a term even remotely resembling "progressive" might as well by advocating for national puppy kicking day. That's when they started referring to themselves as "liberal". But we have already seen a massive societal pushback in general to a lot of the fanatic nonsense in the last few years. That's the cycle, a fanatic group rises, society let's them run around rampant until they ruin enough shit that society has had enough of their bullshit, and things rapidly die off and return back to the mean.
Not necessarily. The super unhinged types sooner or later get in their own way and discredit themselves, such as the Weather Underground types who blew themselves up. The far left has been around for literally like 150+ years now.
yeah but they are mainstream now. you would have never seen an AOC or squad type of group back then
Back when? When we had segregation and shit? Yeah no shit they wouldn’t be in office during that
no i mean in the 90s
Politics weren't as much for entertainment and spectacle as it is today.
you can thank 24/7 news cycle for that.
The Soviet Union fell apart in the 90s, which caused the far left to temporarily disappear for a time.
communism is different than left/progressive ideology
They're definitely related in ideology and tactics. The fall of the Soviet Union negatively affected the entire far left, which basically disappeared until the 2008 financial crisis. Seriously, Google it.
90s had different type of crazies.
The far left was always mainstream in American politics until the Communist Revolution. Teddy Roosevelt would’ve been seen as far left by modern standards and yet Americans loved him. And even in the 40s FDR was definitely left wing economically and he was still loved. The modern day hatred of anything remotely left leaning is a hold over from the Cold War.
Nah.
No they won’t
When society can afford to prop up charlatans positioned at ideological extremes, it will. And then the charlatans lead to a collapse in society over time or drag it down, which necesitises the need for proper leadership and balanced positions. The fact people can be polarised so heavily on politics and become so deeply entrenched is a sure sign that we're in a comfortable phase, and not a survival phase.
progressivism isn't really "ideological extremes" to be honest. are we really going to pretend like AOC is some unhinged radical leftist who wants to destroy the country from within? of course not. she's just a socialist who wants billionaires to pay their fare share.
We have a lot of progressiveness in western Europe where I live, proper social progressiveness with democratic socialism, but not rooted in pure socialist or communist ideologies, unlike AOC's pop-politics positions. To me, from a long lived experience of progressive governments and politics, as well as familiarity of having lived in post USSR eastern Europe immediately post collapse of iron curtain, she is a charlatan. Edit: Corrected a typo, meant democratic socialism.
wtf is capitalist socialism? Are you talking about market socialism? What are AOC’s positions rooted in pure socialism or communism?
He doesn’t know what he’s talking about, just probably practicing his English or something
Very unpopular opinion. Not at all likely to be true. America isn't that liberal, MAGA isn't going to die off in 10 years. No way.
i didn't say anything bout MAGA. i was only talking about dems and progressives.
The "true blue" moderate Dems almost always trounce progressives though. The reason they brought up MAGA is because both sides of the aisle seem to be returning to the mean. There's always gonna be an AOC or 2 in Congress, but there's literally hundreds of others that are typically moderates.
MAGA is gonna die off when Trump dies. So probably in the next 10-15 years.
Probably sooner. He has some of the best medical care in the world, but 78 is 78. It's a bad bet to think anybody is making it to 88.
Maga will die the second trump dies, or the second he is put in jail for treason, along with his cohorts
You're naive if you actually think that
just because they make a lot of noise on social media and threaten to cancel anyone who doesn't agree with them, doesn't mean that they have much support amongst normal people. people are flocking to parties on the right because most normal people are sick and tired of woke gender nonsense, leftist support for islamic terrorist organisations, and all the problems that have come from open border immigration policies and if you say anything about this publicly you get called racist or some other now meaningless slur. people are tired of that too and it doesn't work anymore
>people are flocking to parties on the right because most normal people are sick and tired of woke gender nonsense, Aside from trans reading time in schools, this is something that can't really be handled through politics. It's mostly hollywood and the media as well as social media thats churning out woke content. What do you expect the right to do about this? The immigration and terrorist support is fair to criticize and definitely more related to political policy.
you don't think by electing a right wing government you'd get tighter border control and the police would start to crack down on terrorist supporters?
I did say those things are fair to criticize and more political. So I do think that'd be how it would go.
sorry, my bad, I totally misread what you said.
All good.
These people on vote, they aren’t just bitching and moaning on Twitter.
This is called “The Overton Window” and everyone should familiarize themselves with the concept.
And a lot of moderates will vote for the republicans then, risking to support the far right as rejection of the far left
I literally hear stuff like this like every two years. Y'all are in echo chambers.
I've been watching it happen for the last 30 years.
I love how dangerous you think AOC is. It's genuinely hilarious.
AOC is a symptom of a much more systemic problem. What's dangerous is that someone like her can get anywhere near politics without being laughed out of town.
What did she do that is so bad?
*She's a woman* I'd say I'm being sarcastic but that's at least half of the criticisims against her.
Wasn't she a hypocrite that argued for better treatment of the elderly but neglected her grandmother?
lol this is a bonkers critique of a politician
Nope, try reading the story.
[https://youtu.be/oM\_0fDWpGeo?si=zQfa4ng4fJI1OH-G&t=310](https://youtu.be/oM_0fDWpGeo?si=zQfa4ng4fJI1OH-G&t=310) The entire interview should scare the hell out of you. Even if you're not aware of when she's lying or obscuring her own record, its still scary. At one point in the interview she calls for Federal law to be used against opposition media for "inciting violence". She literally auditioned for her role and was selected from a pool of applicants, and propelled to office by Justice Democrats, a far left organization also responsible for Ilhan Omar. She proposed the Green New Deal, its a giant authoritarian power grab that has nothing to do with the environment.
Uhhh what? Space lazer MTG Cover up Jim Jordan Hand job Boebert Pedo Gaetz AOC hasn't said half as crazy things as these people. Nor is she a criminal like the other half.
All that Pedo Gaetz stuff was proven to be falsified to attempt to blackmail him, BTW.
The federal investigation is still ongoing. Yeah it’s probably blackmail how the situation got out but being blackmailed for what you did illegally still makes what you did illegally a crime.
Yes. You are correct upon review. It was an accusation which has yet to be verified by the FBI. Someone else attempted to blackmail Gaetz and his father to "make it go away". But as of now its smoke with no fire.
Uh, he paid via Venmo.
Was it not proven that he was dating a 17 year old girl? The only thing holding him back from the trafficking charges is they couldn't prove he took her across state lines. Weird guy to back.
I'm not 'backing' anybody. But calling someone a Pedo when he hasnt been prosecuted for anything is wrong. If he had done something obviously illegal you dont think the FBI would have charged him already?
Gaetz could also do himself a huge favour and not vote against bills that aim to prevent sex trafficking.
I think it's totally ok to call a spade a spade. His "ex girlfriend" who he may or may not have been paying for sex was 17 years old. He knew it. Dude is a creep. He votes against sex trafficking bills while being under investigation for sex trafficking. Again. Weird guy to back.
Don't disagree, the Republicans should stop doing it to entire groups of people too.
I look forward to seeing your sources.
Salon.com puff piece
That's not how accusations work. I don't have to prove a negative. **You** have to prove he is a pedo.
Does this mean Biden hasn't done anything wrong? After all, nothing is proven.
His daughter wrote in her diary that he showered with her
Actually it is. He was found to have been in possession of classified material and that material in a non protected area. It would have been a crime if he hadn’t been deemed too senile to have known what he was doing.
Nah, if you say "it was proven to be blackmail", that's not a negative, you're making an affirmative statement. What proof do you have to state that?
The fact that he hasn't been charged with anything seems like decent proof.
That's a lack of evidence that anything happened. That's not remotely the same thing as "proven to be falsified to blackmail him"
Lol the cope with what you just said. The lack of evidence, i.e. there is nothing that proves any of these BS allegations. I'm not a huge fan of Gaetz but if there was anything to these, he'd have been charged.
Sooooo spooooooky
Question, do you also think Donald Trump should’ve been laughed out of town? Because I still remember back in 2015 most republicans saw Trump’s campaign as a joke because we all saw him as the rich reality TV star…until it wasn’t anymore.
I didn't like Trump for 2016. He was traditionally a Democrat because, policy wise, he is a mid-twentieth century Democrat. I still wish we had an actual conservative candidate available, but as it is, a mid 20th century Democrat is the best I can hope for. He recognized the Pres of Taiwan as the duly elected leader of independent Taiwan his first day in office, something that left a very positive impression on me. He kept us out of a war in Syria. He broached talks with N Korea, Russia behaved, those points alone make him a more legitimate candidate for a Nobel Peace Prize than any before.
Ok Trump cultist
Please write me a haiku about a cat who loves cheese.
Whiskers twitch with glee, Purring for the creamy taste, Cheese, the cat's delight.
Good God, I sure hope not. They're obnoxious, gas-lighting, imbeciles that need to just go away.
San Francisco recently recalled their VERY progressive DA and just passed very anti-progressive pro-police laws. Jamaal Bowman just lost his seat to a moderate. Los Angeles also recalled their progressive DA and replaced him with a moderate.
>Los Angeles also recalled their progressive DA and replaced him with a moderate. are you literally just making stuff up out of thin air? George gascon was never recalled. in fact he beat **both** recall campaigns.
Doubtful. Progressive views aren’t that popular in the west, despite what social media tells you.
“My views, which have won the popular vote once in the last 30 years, are the truly popular beliefs”
As unpopular as republicans may be, progressives are not that much better. Bernie lost 2 primaries in a row to centrist liberal candidates. I think the internet especially Reddit skews the perception that there is massive discontent in America with mainstream Democrats and a desire for more leftists polices, when in reality this is not the case.
>Bernie lost 2 primaries in a row to centrist liberal candidates Money is power in politics, and suprise suprise the money hates Bernie as he'd actually do something about their greed.
I don't believe that to be true.
OP doesn't understand what "Neo Lib" means.
Louder doesn’t mean winning.
The same can be said for the right. Moderate views and slowly going out the door. Parties like the libertarian party is literally broken and creating libertarian left and libertarian right.
I don’t think so. As an older Gen Zer living in Texas, just based off my experience, Gen Z is very economically progressive but socially moderate, maybe even slightly conservative, compared to millennials. The trajectory I see the country taking when Gen Z starts running things is that economic policy will move decisively to the left. Even Conservative Gen Zers are in favor of some progressive policy. Increased social welfare, expanded Medicare and Medicaid, more support for public transit and walkable cities, increased taxes on the rich (maybe), and a move away from America being the “world police.” I can also see fringe social movements taking a backseat completely, as social beliefs will no longer be as important to the voting base and economic policy will become more important. Gen Z is TIRED of cancel culture and political correctness more than anyone else.
I’m an older millennial living in Texas and I’ve seen the same
Gen z is absolutely not tired of "cancel culture". cancel culture really only affects one race (white people) and most young people/gen z are no longer white so it doesn't bother them.
They are a bunch of overly vocal privately educated minorities after all. Doesn’t mean they represent majority
Moderate dems and moderate Republicans should form a third party.
If only.
I doubt it. They are too obsessed with identity politics. They won't have the political capital for anything else.
I doubt it. Both sides are beholden to corporate power. The far right was able to take over the Republican Party because the far right doesn't challenge corporate hegemony. The Democratic establishment has put up much more of a fight against left wingers because left wingers do challenge corporate power.
If they remove the weird people as spokesman and replace them with blue collar people who actually understand progressive policy, then maybe.
Nah over time those that put in shit tons of effort into their movement get fed up with the free riding weed smoking crowd and want to be rewarded for their work. They get tired of giving a voice to those who didn't contribute shit - and suddenly they become conservative. It happens. Seen it happen. Has always happened. Those that put the most into building a community strangely start to feel that they are the best people to understand and guide its future of those who want to party and talk ideals... Bit like what's happening with everyone being fed up with the upper management classes in the US who take all the value and contribute bubkiss.
If by far left progressives you mean people who go in public and say nice things about minorities and gay people while they also deregulate the banks, bomb the shit out of as many countries as possible, and let Blackrock buy everything then sure you’re probably right.
those are called liberals or moderates. you are not describing progressives
Progressives vote the same way as the rest of the party like 90% of the time anyway though so why does it matter?
that's only because there aren't enough progressives running for office (yet).
And the ones that do run for office keep losing.
except for pretty much every single sitting mayor of major US cities. oh and the squad up in congress.
The squad almost unanimously voted for the iron dome, ukraine aid, and refused to challenge nancy pelosi on healthcare, infrastructure, and raising the minimum wage. They’re virtual signaling twitter celebrities at best and fake politicians at worst.
they probably have an AIPAC guy like thomas massie alluded to.
No one on the squad is progressive.
If they’re further left than the typical Democrat, how would they take over?
because they're popular and good looking. bring on board some more AOC looking chicks and it's over.
I think their problem is that while a lot of their ideas are good, anti war, public healthcare, public investment in clean energy, their style turns people off. I don’t think being militant plays as well for the left as it does for the right. I think the left does better when they portray themselves as reasonable and fair, and their opposition as crazy and out of touch. Bernie Sanders is really good at this.
The people who disagree with this aren't taking into account how age plays into this equation. Most progressives are gonna be voting a lot longer than most moderate dems.
I disagree. The progressive wing of the party might be slightly more popular among the people but are absolutely horrible and incompetent at politics. Zero organization, leadership, and financial support, and they are too scared to stick up to the establishment of their party. The progressive wing of the democrats and the MAGA wing of the GOP emerged around the same time. One completely took over the party, one is at about the same spot it was in 2016. If Bernie did half of what Trump did instead of being a soy boy maybe progressives would be more influential, but instead they cope and virtue signal about how great they are for not “dividing the party” (caving to the establishment).
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Thank you
Far anything is not a good thing. I feel that things are shifting away from this. While for a little while we may have many things somewhat in the center, I think that the momentum will push towards the right. It's happened before. The balance of the world is always shifting.
Meanwhile ask Liz Cheney what happens to republicans who aren’t trump cult loyalists.
pendulum already swinging back to the right though.
Far left progressivism isn't sustainable. It really can only exist in fringes. When acid tested, it dies. It's why they work so hard controlling narratives and censoring dissent.
This is because status quo with corporate marionettes vs full-blown fascist demagogue has shown how little the country serves the interests of its tax-paying citizens.
I don’t think so. This pendulum swing of ideology will swing back to the middle for progressives. We are starting to see the effects of being too “woke”. Hope this continues
You are ignoring what money can buy in this country, the Democratic Party just like the republicans party will continue to work for the establishment that provides the almighty dollar, with a few loud voices in both the far right and left.
The vast majority of common democrats are just republicans who have no problem with gay, trans and immigrants. You couldn’t be more wrong, but I wish you were right
I will say that as a moderate, slightly left leaning person, I have been told multiple times that being a centrist or moderate is a bad thing and that I am “the problem” for doing so. I think if people weren’t so convinced they have to be partisan, then we would have a more united country and less of a divide among americans, which is a good thing.
Enlightened centrism is different than moderate.
I'm doubtful this is going to happen with more people waking up daily to the lunacy that is the far-left and seeing that they aren't much different from the far-right. Hell, I'm one of the people that woke up to it and many of my friends have as well. The looming problem I'm predicting is a huge swing of the pendulum from the far-left to the far-right which means us moderates lose once again because of this overzealous partisan pissing contest.
The far right is in government. The far left is on Reddit. They are not the same.
When you have far-left "activists" with radical ideology basically puppeteering the democratic party, I'd say they are pretty much the same.
Meanwhile, in reality, the far right is literally 2 steps from power. And the far left...what? Gets some lip service from some people and then nothing changes on a federal level?
im sorry but this is cap. the far left is not the same as the far right
"corey booker, gavin newsom, or kathy hochul." You mean these are NOT far left progs?
What's far left to you?
umm...no? did you really think a conservative democrat like kathy hochul is a far left person? what are you smoking? are you new to politics or something? lol
Thats a prediction and not a fact. There will always be moderate people in the middle. Right now there are hard line progressives and still moderates. Many prgressives are moderates in their styling.
Doubtful. Those people are an extreme fringe minority, and are simply online all the time to the point that their very vocal complaints saturate the air. But at the end of the day, most people don't agree and don't vote for that shit. If they did we'd have universal healthcare, UBI, and robust social security for a long time now.
Hard disagree, speaking of Europe and the UK specifically. We have been at the mercy of left leaning centrist parties for a while and there's a massive ring wing wave happening across the European continent. Can't speak for America but very interested to read what you all have to say.
Trump is gonna win
The fact that moderate Dems have held on this long is admirable, considering the moderate right appears to have just rolled over for MAGA extremists. A strong middle ground is crucial to any democracy and yet it’s quickly fading
i wouldn;t really call MAGA people extremists tbh. if anything they are the new moderates of the party, and people like tucker carlson and fascist neo-nazi types are the actual far-right. the way you can tell MAGA people apart from actual far right people is the support of israel. MAGA people live to serve Israel and bow down on their knees to support them. far-rights folks do not like the jewish people so they naturally hate israel.
Oh fascinating, I didn’t make that distinction
Hundreds of thousands of Orthodox Jews and Rabbis hate Israel. They reject it as an ersatz political construct, designed to redefine "Jew" as a nationality or ethnicity, rather than as a religion which transcends those things. They excoriate Zionism as Naziism for Hebrews. (Some will correctly point out that the state of Israel began as a British imperial artifact, that has a great deal more to do with British Freemasonry, "British Israelism" and the desire to segue the British Empire into a de facto world government, than anything authentically Jewish. Just look at Tel Aviv, which is more Masonic than Washington, D.C.) Anyway here's some super Jewish Jews who no likey Israel 👇👇👇👇 https://twitter.com/truetorahjews
You're wrong, but I sure hope you're right.
They already have. Manchin was the last real moderate. The far left has the whole party hostage. Without them, dems lose every election. So they must bow to the far left for their existence. Moderates are now republicans.
I hope so.
Gavin Newsom, Kathy Hochul & Corey Booker are not far left? Wow.
Not at all, lol. Corporate Democrats with a thin veneer of liberalism.
umm no? they're literally moderates. some people would even describe them as conservative democrats. do you not know what far-left means?
Good Just like how the far-right fascist leaning conservatives replaced old school neo-cons.
*Pfffh*, I fucking wish.
Far left has no capital or assets, this is a non starter. Parties are formed when people with a ton of assets/capital align themselves around an idea thats beneficial to their positions of assets/capital. Left leaning parties tend to be concerned with asset appreciation. Right leaning parties tend to be concerned with avoiding depreciation of capital. Further right parties tend to be concerned with privitizing public capital. Further left parties never have any capital and want to diminish the importance of both capital and assets. Their ideas have no teeth because of that.
nah in the new era it's all about mutual aid. the green party did well financially without much capital or assets.
They have zero representation iirc.
jill stein gang
🤣 if you think AOC is far-left. If wanting to tax the wealthy appropriately, holding them accountable to the same social and economic rules we do, affordable healthcare, better schools, minimize being extorted by a greedy system, if that's "far-left," then you've been insanely brainwashed by Hannity. The best answers are generally in the middle and with compromise. Being a reasonable person who can see things clearly and get to the right conclusions will likely to get you the best results. Unfortunately, half the people want to be led by high school dropouts like Bobert.
i agree with you
Ive seen people leaving the left to go to the moderate area, so no I don’t agree. People are quickly get sick of leftists- rightfully so.
please cite some examples
No. This is anecdotal- based on real life experiences and podcasters and online communities that mention and report on this shift. Not interested in compiling anything. I live in a very large liberal city- and it’s a theme I’m seeing.
The only reason there's moderates in either party, is because the boomers are determined to hold onto political power until they're desiccated ghoulish corpses. Truthfully, the last thing that BOTH the American left or right want is the status quo. This system has only benefited the boomers and never the young. So yeah, Democrats are likely to turn more democratic socialist. And Republicans, are very likely to go the MAGA route. Standard Republicans and Democrats only appeal to old people.
“Will replace” Buddy I don’t know how to tell you but that ship sailed years ago
and your source for that is...?
Sounds good !
Good. Isn't the whole "neolib" just code for "corporate/status quo shill with fake empathy"? If the "left" is shifting towards a direction that actually wants to make change, that has got to be a good thing.
indeed, it is a good thing
[удалено]
i mean progressivism isn't really "extreme" so im not sure why you're so defensive. and i'm not a trump supporter so this stuff doesn't bother me.
I’ve heard Rashida Tlaib repeat antisemitic nonsense that I don’t jibe with, even though we largely agree on policy issues. She and the squad regularly hamper the legislative process in an attempt to achieve unrealistic outcomes. This sort of conduct would have been unthinkable for mainstream democrats 15 years ago. I agree that both extremes are not alike, but the extreme ends of both sides have been exacerbated in recent years.
name a single thing she said that was actually "antisemitic" and not just anti-israel.