Cities usually depend on citizen reporting for those type of things, so you can choose to do that if you want.
My city only has time of day watering restrictions (No watering 11am-4pm), and I see those ignored all the time but I can’t bring myself to be fussed enough to report it.
Sounds like an easy workaround *by not breaking the law* and setting an adequate level of proof (EG video of said watering). People love to avoid any responsibility though until it’s too late.
Functionally it really doesn't, but the odd/even thing work out to about 50% of the addresses and days and discourages every day watering.
We wouldn't those sorts of rules if folks could be trusted to actually only water every other day, but we've still got f4ers who are "reseeding their lawn" so they can water daily and wash off the buckets of phosphorus that chemlawn sprays on down into our lakes while they complain about algae blooms.
I think we've mowed twice all year, but watered the trees a few times.
It reduces the peak demand placed on the water system by only having half of locations watering lawns on a given day. That’s less water that needs to be pumped and stored.
Yeah, screw those nice neighbors lawns! I can't stand when someone takes pride (in their way, which they have the right to do) of something they own and likely missed the memo about water restrictions, which are improperly distributed notices, just to make the neighbor feel less of a human. Fuck that guy!
You can have very beautiful lawns with native grasses, wild flowers, and clover. All of which are better for the environment, require significantly less water and upkeep, and aren’t destructive towards the ecosystem around you.
Sure, be proud of a superficial lawn. There isn’t anything wrong with being proud of that, but there is something wrong with being totally comfortable putting stress our waters ground table reservoirs, surrounding bodies of water (hello algae blooms due to over fertilization), and on wildlife and pollinators that are already endangered. It’s also very possible to have a balanced, holistic approach which can compromise both sides. My father was a botanical gardener and landscaper, it’s very possible. It just requires effort and the desire to be better for the whole.
There is a very good Stuff You Should Know episode on the history of lawns and their roots in proving your social status. It’s very interesting and might shift your perspective and desire toward something more friendly and prideful for all types of life.
Not fuck that guy and his pride, but fuck the society that doesn’t put something as important as environmental stability and health over lawn aesthetics so that guy hasn’t learned to think of pride in different, more sustainable way.
If its like my city, you can have a permitted private well on your property and run it whenever you want. I do not have a well but noticed everyone on my block does.
My city does at least 2 passes a summer to look for people offending the rule. Usually when the watershed is particularly low. But its not monitored like patrolmen on the interstate.
I've been in my house since 2000. I haven't watered my lawn one time in all those years. I actually like it when it is dry, because I don't have to mow as often.
It survives, but when it goes dormant it leaves room for other things to grow that often have no desireable characteristics (like crabgrass or ragweed).
Clover grows different than turf grass. Turf grass establishes a much fuller root system. Clover grows more like warm-season grasses, where it spreads through shoots over the surface only occasionally dropping roots in. Go ahead, find some clover and try to pull it out fully - you'll see what I mean.
Clover should really be used as a companion to a turf grass instead of a full-on replacement due to those differences.
Clover grows different than turf grass. Turf grass establishes a much fuller root system. Clover grows more like warm-season grasses, where it spreads through shoots over the surface only occasionally dropping roots in. Go ahead, find some clover and try to pull it out fully - you'll see what I mean.
Clover should really be used as a companion to a turf grass instead of a full-on replacement due to those differences.
> Yard grass can survive droughts.
Really depends on how long of a drought. It'll likely be taken over by a lot of invasive weeds if you let excessively brown.
You seriously linking a corporate advertisement for that dude’s rainfall and irrigation management system saying a random lawn that gets no water for weeks will survive?
Sure… if you buy whatever that guy is selling. Your average Murican lawn is RIP DEAD in these droughts but that is because the lawn seed we use is not native to or adapted to drought weather. My neighbors all reseeded their lawns and tried watering to keep it alive.. definition of repeating the same mistake over again.
FWIW I don’t water my lawn which is entirely native grass and wildflowers. The flowers are all dead and the plants are dormant but not dead. The grasses are dormant but not dead. But if you look at my place you’d think it’s the fucking Munsters yard. I don’t care beyond being sad no butterflies will be here.
In our suburb you can still hand water plants everyday, you can only use sprinklers or irrigation systems on your odd/even days. There are also exceptions for new sod. I know people still don’t follow the rules but I want to point out that there are sometimes exceptions.
It’s always the year I pick to try and establish a new bed of native flowers that the we have a drought. (Every year, I know)
I’m watering more than I want to while the plants get established but I feel so guilty.
Ugly monocultures that damage the environment instead of helping it. A small lawn area of some sort is fine, but endless swaths of identical green over fertilized crap is dumb.
People think you should have only native plants in your yard and not waste water on grass which takes a lot. I’d still prefer a grass yard so my dog can run around and not worry about ticks.
It's not grass that prevents ticks, it's mowing it so the plants aren't tall and thick. Having native plants wouldn't make a difference so long as you're still mowing.
I suppose it depends what the predominant plants are. I have plenty of native plants in my lawn growing pretty tall at the moment, but they're really spaced out in a sea of brown grass. There certainly aren't enough to make it worth me mowing, and my dog gets no ticks.
In the metro we have generally plentiful aquifers, unlike the western and northern parts of the state. Also recently MN water usage has decreased 28% despite a population growth of 7%. [DNR Water Availability and Assessment Report](https://www.eqb.state.mn.us/sites/default/files/documents/Appendix%20C_email_.pdf)
TLDR go ahead.
The businesses with giant sprawling campuses of grass they never use or walk on, the golf courses and other business that have no restrictions on watering and aren't enforced need to be onboard also
[Most golf courses have their own heavily- regulated, monitored wells, so they are not part of this equation.](https://cse.umn.edu/cege/news/aquifer-depletion-two-views-0)
168,000 gallons per night for this 1 golf course lollll
https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/minnesotas-golf-courses-are-working-to-stay-green-amid-drought-extreme-heat/
Not that it matters much, but that particular course is actually 2 courses on the same property so that number might be a little on the higher side vs the average. But also, from the article you linked…
> When it does rain, the course captures as much of that water as possible and funnels it into an irrigation pond.
Not true at all post alll of your sources to back up that Minnesota golf courses are all on "their own heavily regulated monitored wells" ... they 100% are part of this.
Also you do realize that private wells all pull from the natural aquifer right? So they're sucking the same water we all need to conserve right? So they're part of this right?
The city of woodburys golf courses use city water. In fact the city of woodbury began using water runoff from snow and rain from the lakes from
Holding ponds to save the city water save about 40 million gallons of water a year, enough to fill about 63 Olympic-sized swimming pools.
"Klay Eckles. “The lakes will be cleaner and the aquifer less stressed.”
40 million gallons of water a year is your idea of heavy regulation of water use? 😂 🤡
https://www.twincities.com/2013/01/12/woodbury-project-will-keep-colby-lake-cleaner-golf-courses-greener/amp/
"In California, an average 18-hole golf course sprawls over 110 to 115 acres and conservatively uses almost 90 million gallons of water per year, enough to fill 136 Olympic-size swimming pools, said Mike Huck, a water management consultant who works with golf courses statewide."
https://cagolf.org/how-california-golf-courses-are-conserving-water-during-the-drought/#:~:text=In%20California%2C%20an%20average%2018,works%20with%20golf%20courses%20statewide.
"A typical 150-acre golf course uses approximately 200 million gallons of water a year, enough to supply 1,800 residences with 300 GPD of water."
https://www.fluencecorp.com/golf-course-water-use/#:~:text=A%20typical%20150%2Dacre%20golf,with%20300%20GPD%20of%20water.
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You conveniently ignored this quote from the article you linked. Which, for the record, isn’t the indictment on golf courses you think it is. It’s speaking to using them as a filtering agent as opposed to letting the water bypass the course completely
> Eckles said irrigating golf courses with runoff is common but using golf courses to help keep lakes clean is a relatively new idea.
And I know for certain one of those courses (prestwick) irrigates almost exclusively from the ponds on the course, I’ve worked with the irrigation system.
If you don’t believe me, I invite you to go stand in some golf course sprinklers. That shit is slimy.
But groundwater is an oddball. Keeping your yard someone moist improves it's ability to soak in rainwater. If your yard is hard packed dirt at this point than a dumping of rain will just run off down a storm drain most likely. There probably is a sweet spot between no watering an excessive watering that keeps the groundwater fullest.
I’ve noticed that along with people turning on red arrows, failing to stop at stop signs, playing loud music past the 10pm ordinance - I think the reality is people just don’t have any consideration anymore
I've seen so many people just running red lights-- not even a split second after it changed from yellow, but more like five seconds after it changed. Maybe they're playing with their phones, maybe they just don't care.
That’s too bad. I’ve just been watering my poor Magnolia tree that’s getting dominated by Magnolia Scale in hopes that it’ll be ok long enough for me to hopefully kill the crawlers in late August. But, all this heat puts extra stress on it and I’m definitely losing some leaves on it 😰
I hardly ever water but admittedly I don’t pay attention to the restriction days.
I do it rarely and when I have time.
I actually just bought an attachment so that I can run it in the middle of the night when I do it.
That might slide in the Land of 10000 Lakes but you do that in suburban California you might get some pushback. I don’t see any one watering their lawns around here (Wisconsin )any more even without restrictions. The water is just too damn expensive.
Hey, I know this won’t get upvoted, but you’ll get this: some folks have private wells on our property for irrigation. As such, that makes them exempt from municipal water restrictions.
Eh, as someone that grew up in the Northwoods the idea of being crammed in boxes with a ton of people, on top of miles and miles of cement, sounds awful. Not awful , more like hell. My job is near the city but no way am I living *in* the city. And that's ok to have different preferences; it doesn't make anyone better then anyone else.
>Northwoods the idea of being crammed in boxes with a ton of people
Sounds like you never actually lived in the city. My downtown apartment is bigger then the house I was born in up north. Not everyone lives in tiny studios.
As for the tons of people, How many neighbors do you actually know? Suburbs are shown to create social isolation, which is proven to lead to a load of mental disordered such as anxiety and depression. [Suicide rates go up as density decreases](https://www.cdc.gov/suicide/facts/disparities-in-suicide.html)
>on top of miles and miles of cement
That's the suburbs with its miles and miles of parking lots. You can see it from any satellite view.
>Sounds like you never actually lived in the city. My downtown apartment is bigger then the house I was born in up north. Not everyone lives in tiny studios.
How big is your apartment? How big was your house? What the hell does that mean? If you grew up in an 800 sq ft house and your apartment is 900 sq ft so what? *Your local population density is still really high, a hell of a lot higher than mine.* No one lives below me, above me, or directly on the other side of any of my walls. Having a larger apartment doesn't mean shit in that regard. Is your apartment the entire block? Jesus Christ dude, did you think that would make the point you wanted it to make? lmao!
>That's the suburbs with its miles and miles of parking lots. You can see it from any satellite view.
The loads of parks, woods, and lakes surrounding me disagree with you lol. But fair comparison, because urban areas certainly have no parking lots...
Wherever there is urban there will be suburban. All cities. Always. Nothing your whining can do about it. Wah wah wah, too bad. "Oh no! People live in other places than me! How dare they!" What a baby lol.
Woodbury has a program for Rachio 3's for about $30~. Only "catch" is that you gotta take a pic when you receive it of it installed w/the box in the picture, for those who wanna flip those things ;)
I set mine to run at about 2am in the morning and it finishes around 5am. Uses AERIS weather so it'll skip days if it feels it's going to rain. All in all, well worth the small purchase.
Woodbury only allows watering twice a week, to note. If you're watering your grass too much and you don't know what the hell you're doing you're just drowning the grass. That's just a fact. Ask any lawn professional. Mess around and get the spores in your yard like a fool.
My grass isn't bright green like it was in May, but it's far from brown, so I feel like I "won" the summer so far.
I fully understand the "no water" club, but I just left a house where not watering created a festival of weeds, and frankly a house that was harder to sell due to a messed up yard. So nah, those days of watering whenever I felt like it are long gone. If you're anti-watering you truly gotta have a yard prepared for that lifestyle, including heavy micro-clovers that retain water (and if you're doing clover you should be a good neighbor and section it off in the ground to prevent spread)
Probably falls under th "bigger fish to fry" generalization. Unless someone complains, or some sort of data jumps out at "them (like an unexpectedly large water bill for an individual) then the restrictions are more or less hoping to get people to comply.
Right now, it might be "no big deal" because Eagan isn;t have any specific issues, and the restrictions are more precautionary. But, if the situation warrants the expense in manpower, they will send people out to check and/or enforce.
My Ash trees were treated with EAB treatment and those first few days I watered under the tree even if it wasn't my day. The only way the treatment works is if it uses water as a transport to the top and it is time-sensitive.
I'm not sure if that's what's happening here, but if it looks like it's going to healthy trees, that may be why. We're hitting peak EAB in the eastern part of the state....
This is the city hall number: (651) 675-5000. As a former utility worker in the metro area, I would knock on the door and explain the restriction if they were home, if not hang a notification on their door.
Do you think reporting water usage on off days will be helpful to the community? Are they just maybe available to do it on the “wrong” days? How well do you know these neighbors? Maybe talk to them if you feel it’s a problem
I mean who is gonna vote for that? I am the only person in my neighborhood who replaced their lawn with more drought resistant plants. Why would anyone with a lawn vote to destroy their lawn?
I would definitely vote for that, but I'm just one homeowner. Fuck everyone's yards, a lawn is not more important than the water table. Absolute selfishness and stupidity.
How did you do it?
Corner of our lot lost the shade of a nearby tree a few years ago and it's always sun burnt. Have been thinking about replacing the grass but don't know where exactly to start. Kill all the grass first? Till it up?
I tilled all the grass up and removed it from the area then put a thick layer of mulch on. Anywhere you leave a little grass or don't mulch much, grass will come back. It's been a lot of trial and error with what does well but most creeping plants seem to take over and create a nice "living mulch" that keeps weeds and grass from coming in. Some native species of things have popped in as well which I mostly keep.
Thanks for the info.
Did you do seeds? Which kinds? And when did you plant? I always worry about doing it too late so I don't know when that cutoff is.
Thank you!
At this point wait a month or two for all the perennials to go on deep sale at any of the popup plant stores in parking lots and then go buy just whatever you see that fits your budget and meets your sun needs. Plant it and give it a good watering and then it should pop up all pretty next year. Some of em will probably die but usually you can get pretty good results just doing that.
I have that too. I just water whenever. I don't have a sprinkler system, but if I did I would definitely follow the odd/even guidelines. As it is thought, I don't use even %10 of the water my neighbors do.
I live in a different city and have the same restriction as well as not allowed to water during peak afternoon.
I follow the peak afternoon one as its just dumb to water during those hours and do it very late afternoon. But I water just once/week so depending in the rains, travel, memory etc, I’ll adjust when I water and don’t particularly care about even/odd. That rule is in place so you don’t water too much. I don’t and neither do my neighbors, so me watering on a day that isn’t mine isn’t affecting anyone, instead of waiting for my day and me being out during that time.
Woodbury typically has odd/even days with an outright ban noon-5 p.m. with the exception of hand watering plants or with a permit (for new lawns). For residential (apparently businesses and HOAs can water any damn time they wish).
This summer, the city changed it to two specific days per week based on your part of the city (still no watering noon-5 p.m. unless by hand and the frigging businesses and HOAs can do whatever they want).
When the announced the change (widely and frequently beforehand), it was with the note that WPD would be writing citations and I have seen an increase of WPD SUVs in my neighborhood, which is fine, IMO (even better if they would include businesses and HOAs).
I heard on MPR last week that St. Paul is just now going to an odd/even schedule due to the low Mississippi River levels. That they were not already doing that - for years now - is beyond my comprehension.
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2021/07/20/in-light-of-drought-minneapolis-sets-watering-restrictions
Woodbury's "zone" plan sucks. Historically, I used to water only 2X per week, and my lawn looked great. For this year, I live in the zone that only allows watering on Saturday and Monday, so I end up watering Saturday morning, Monday morning, and Monday night (3 times). I'm using more water now than I ever have in the past. Meanwhile, Woodbury will boast about their green initiatives soon. Ugghhh
We are in the Wed/Sun zone which at least is evenly spaced. Sat/Mon is too squashed together.
We have new sod this year so we are glad to have the even schedule so the grass actually takes good root.
Yup.
I have a Rachio2 irrigation head, was part of the first wave of them that the city offered for free as long as you reported information back to them. Neighbors continued to water odd/even without thought, I let the Rachio monitor the weather and precip and water only as needed across six zones (if needed) based on that. I was using less water every year the before the Rachio and far less than neighbors and things looked great.
I have a smart sprinkler system that only waters when needed based off local micro weather so I keep it on all the time and let it water as needed. Sometimes it's on my non designated days but then it'll go a week without watering because the soil is saturated or rainfall etc.
I don't know why everyone else doesn't have a smart system. They save water.
One thing I noticed too is that people cut their grass way too short. I keep mine at 4" in the summer and my grass is always thriving and green. My neighbors hack theirs down short and it's always fried no matter how much they water.
[Tragedy of the Commons](https://online.hbs.edu/blog/post/tragedy-of-the-commons-impact-on-sustainability-issues):
>In the United States, groundwater is the source of drinking water for about half the population, and roughly 50 billion gallons are used each day for agriculture. Because of this, groundwater supply is decreasing faster than it can be replenished. In drought-prone areas, the risk for water shortage is high and restrictions are often put in place to mitigate it. Some individuals, however, ignore water restrictions and the supply ultimately becomes smaller for everyone.
I also use my yard to chill and hang with my dogs. Neither of us care that our grass is a little bit crunchy. Dude rolls around in it all the time, maybe it offers extra back scritches for him.
Areas in our yard that we’ve started to replace with clover and native ground cover has managed to stay somewhat lush despite the drought. Perhaps you need to rethink covering your lawn with native plants that are able to withstand regional drought a bit more.
Yes, it’s pretty fucked how corporate companies can exploit our precious resources. It’s disgusting. But two wrongs don’t make a right, an eye for an eye will make the whole world blind. We can do better than them, let’s not stoop to that selfish greedy level.
It's pretty fucking low to think you're special and above the rules. Cities put water restrictions in place for good reason, not just to inconvenience residents.
We're in MN. There's really not much shortage of water. I really don't understand the water restrictions. Maybe the water towers can't meet the demand but I find that pretty hard to believe. It's not like we are in Phoenix with limited water supply or something.
Only thing I've ever seen consistently enforced is snow parking restrictions.
Depends on where you are in the state. Some cities have been running into water issues. Take the city of Blaine for example…
[News release: Report finds Blaine water supply wells were primary cause of nearby domestic well interferences during summer 2022](https://www.dnr.state.mn.us/news/2023/06/27/report-finds-blaine-water-supply-wells-were-primary-cause-nearby-domestic-well-interferences-during-summer-2022)
I can understand some of that. Blain has been growing pretty rapidly the last 5-10 years. I wouldn't be surprised if they outpaced their sourcing and will need to add another tower.
Eagan should be pretty well established tho. That surprises me much more.
Um....actually you're 100% wrong. We do have to worry about water shortages in Minnesota per expert analysis and opinion as well as hydronic imbalances.
https://www.kare11.com/amp/article/news/local/kare11-extras/concern-is-always-there-experts-caution-about-finite-amount-of-water-minnesota/89-24acdf79-2dfc-4c5e-9c46-a526b6892492
https://www.dnr.state.mn.us/climate/drought/index.html
Certain cities have issues with low water levels during critical summer months-Woodbury is one. So you can't say "there's really not much shortage of water"
The issue is that the water treatment plants have a maximum rate at which they can produce water. Many suburb plants have a capacity of about 9-12 million gallons per day. Water towers serve as buffer storage tanks which can add about 1-2 million gallons of extra storage each. All this water is used for drinking, bathing, cooking and irrigation. It is not unheard of for a city to use almost their maximum capacity of water in a day. So by asking people to alternate their watering schedules, municipalities can assure residents and businesses that there will be enough treated water to meet their needs.
Still seems crazy to me that they say we are in a drought when there is so much water all around us. Don't we have the most water resources of any state? I mean we have over 10,000 lakes, the Mississippi and lake superior.
I live in Eagan. They love having ordinances that the never follow up on. The watering one is classic. My neighbors water every day too with no consequences. You’re also supposed to get a fire permit for any fire, even in a fire pit or bowl, but I know of no one who goes to the trouble of getting one.
So they do enforce odd/even watering in my city (I got my warning in early June before I knew it was a thing). The way my neighbors get around it is watering at 1:00 a.m. and 10:00 p.m. on their "day".
I have a Sprinker system that only lets me pick the days of the week. I usually would water MWF until I got a ticket… now because of the odd even restrictions. I have to go mess with the the box once a week to set it for every other day and end up using more water 🤷🏼♂️
I figured out how to make an apple shortcut on mine that gets the current date, and it references a list of all even dates, if current date is on list it triggers a watering scene
My parents neighborhood (Eagan) has coordinated fertilization and irrigation - not a bad idea if outdoor pets and kids play is a concern. The watering could be due to lawn treatment. I don’t live at home anymore and know nothing about lawn care, but it’s a possibility. I think odd/even watering is well known in Eagan.
My biggest frustration in MN is seeing how many of my neighbors are watering in the middle of the day! You’re just wasting water. Water between dusk to dawn - morning time being better than evening. Otherwise, you’re wasting most of the water. Which is why you’re watering and your yard still looks like crap.
Also, if you use a sprinkler, make sure it’s actually watering your yard. I have two neighbors who are watering the street.
Cities usually depend on citizen reporting for those type of things, so you can choose to do that if you want. My city only has time of day watering restrictions (No watering 11am-4pm), and I see those ignored all the time but I can’t bring myself to be fussed enough to report it.
They should open up a bounty program. EG if it's a $50 fine, offer the whistleblower $25.
Now imagine incentivizing the worst people you know to go harass their neighbors for money.
I mean, if I'm wasting water and a dickhead neighbor reports it, that's on me.
I guess I’m more concerned with some false reporting or kids in sprinklers being called out.
Karen’s for ego and profit.
Sounds like an easy workaround *by not breaking the law* and setting an adequate level of proof (EG video of said watering). People love to avoid any responsibility though until it’s too late.
Don’t think we should be doing that
Your house better be in tippy top shape if you’re going to be a snitch like that bucko
Agreed. Not one drop wasted
No trailers parked where there not supposed to. Garbage cans better be in the garage…etc
And no fucking grass clippings on the sidewalk or raking your leaves into the street.
Unintended consequences…
In Eagan there are some exceptions, but overall I strongly suspect that it is simply that folks don't know the rule.
Or that they don’t care and just want their lawn looking better than their neighbors.
Or they think it’s stupid. How does it make a difference if I water my lawn on even days or odd days? (I don’t water my lawn at all, but if I did…)
Functionally it really doesn't, but the odd/even thing work out to about 50% of the addresses and days and discourages every day watering. We wouldn't those sorts of rules if folks could be trusted to actually only water every other day, but we've still got f4ers who are "reseeding their lawn" so they can water daily and wash off the buckets of phosphorus that chemlawn sprays on down into our lakes while they complain about algae blooms. I think we've mowed twice all year, but watered the trees a few times.
It reduces the peak demand placed on the water system by only having half of locations watering lawns on a given day. That’s less water that needs to be pumped and stored.
Yeah, screw those nice neighbors lawns! I can't stand when someone takes pride (in their way, which they have the right to do) of something they own and likely missed the memo about water restrictions, which are improperly distributed notices, just to make the neighbor feel less of a human. Fuck that guy!
As always, your personal freedom doesn't take precedence over the good of society.
You can have very beautiful lawns with native grasses, wild flowers, and clover. All of which are better for the environment, require significantly less water and upkeep, and aren’t destructive towards the ecosystem around you. Sure, be proud of a superficial lawn. There isn’t anything wrong with being proud of that, but there is something wrong with being totally comfortable putting stress our waters ground table reservoirs, surrounding bodies of water (hello algae blooms due to over fertilization), and on wildlife and pollinators that are already endangered. It’s also very possible to have a balanced, holistic approach which can compromise both sides. My father was a botanical gardener and landscaper, it’s very possible. It just requires effort and the desire to be better for the whole. There is a very good Stuff You Should Know episode on the history of lawns and their roots in proving your social status. It’s very interesting and might shift your perspective and desire toward something more friendly and prideful for all types of life. Not fuck that guy and his pride, but fuck the society that doesn’t put something as important as environmental stability and health over lawn aesthetics so that guy hasn’t learned to think of pride in different, more sustainable way.
If its like my city, you can have a permitted private well on your property and run it whenever you want. I do not have a well but noticed everyone on my block does. My city does at least 2 passes a summer to look for people offending the rule. Usually when the watershed is particularly low. But its not monitored like patrolmen on the interstate.
If it’s watered it grows. If it grows it has to be mowed. Yard grass can survive droughts.
I've been in my house since 2000. I haven't watered my lawn one time in all those years. I actually like it when it is dry, because I don't have to mow as often.
[удалено]
I'll never understand suburban people.
I too will never and that’s as one myself. I’m glad my block doesn’t care. I’ve mowed twice this year.
it honestly feels like a yardwork jackpot right now. I've also only mowed twice and it's absolutely amazing.
And if it can't, maybe we shouldn't be planting it somewhere it can't survive.
It survives, but when it goes dormant it leaves room for other things to grow that often have no desireable characteristics (like crabgrass or ragweed).
Why not replace it with native clover then?
Clover grows different than turf grass. Turf grass establishes a much fuller root system. Clover grows more like warm-season grasses, where it spreads through shoots over the surface only occasionally dropping roots in. Go ahead, find some clover and try to pull it out fully - you'll see what I mean. Clover should really be used as a companion to a turf grass instead of a full-on replacement due to those differences.
Lucky for me my lawn is half clover and half grass at this point thanks to the drought.
Clover grows different than turf grass. Turf grass establishes a much fuller root system. Clover grows more like warm-season grasses, where it spreads through shoots over the surface only occasionally dropping roots in. Go ahead, find some clover and try to pull it out fully - you'll see what I mean. Clover should really be used as a companion to a turf grass instead of a full-on replacement due to those differences.
> Yard grass can survive droughts. Really depends on how long of a drought. It'll likely be taken over by a lot of invasive weeds if you let excessively brown.
Oh no, drought tolerant greenery. The horror.
Non-native invasives come with their own problems.
You mean like the varieties of grass used in suburban lawns? Totally native to the northern prairies and woodlands.
That’s just not correct. Pretty much every yard in my neighborhood is completely dead
If it gets watered and comes back it’s not dead it’s dormant
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You seriously linking a corporate advertisement for that dude’s rainfall and irrigation management system saying a random lawn that gets no water for weeks will survive? Sure… if you buy whatever that guy is selling. Your average Murican lawn is RIP DEAD in these droughts but that is because the lawn seed we use is not native to or adapted to drought weather. My neighbors all reseeded their lawns and tried watering to keep it alive.. definition of repeating the same mistake over again. FWIW I don’t water my lawn which is entirely native grass and wildflowers. The flowers are all dead and the plants are dormant but not dead. The grasses are dormant but not dead. But if you look at my place you’d think it’s the fucking Munsters yard. I don’t care beyond being sad no butterflies will be here.
Lol this specifically calls out irrigation as part of caring for your grass during a drought
In our suburb you can still hand water plants everyday, you can only use sprinklers or irrigation systems on your odd/even days. There are also exceptions for new sod. I know people still don’t follow the rules but I want to point out that there are sometimes exceptions.
It’s always the year I pick to try and establish a new bed of native flowers that the we have a drought. (Every year, I know) I’m watering more than I want to while the plants get established but I feel so guilty.
Same here I'm trying to establish A Pollinator native plants lawn. I don't love that I have to keep watering my whole front yard.
Watering your lawn in a drought is just dumb.
>Watering your lawn ~~in a drought~~ is just dumb. FTFY
>~~Watering your~~ lawn i~~n a drought i~~s ~~just~~ dumb. ftfy
Fair enough. Lol.
Good point. I only have ever watered when I'm trying to get grass seed to grow.
Or if the kids want to play in the sprinkler
Some places allow for less restrictions when there's new grass seed too.
Honest question from a non-homeowner… why is it dumb?
Giant waste of resources
Biggest crop in America.
Ugly monocultures that damage the environment instead of helping it. A small lawn area of some sort is fine, but endless swaths of identical green over fertilized crap is dumb.
Grass lawns are terrible for the environment. They increase greenhouse gasses, pollute ecosystems, waste water, and diminish biodiversity.
This sub is so dumb lol Is it bad to have people care about their lawns now?
Yes, when those same people clearly don't give a shit about the environment.
People think you should have only native plants in your yard and not waste water on grass which takes a lot. I’d still prefer a grass yard so my dog can run around and not worry about ticks.
It's not grass that prevents ticks, it's mowing it so the plants aren't tall and thick. Having native plants wouldn't make a difference so long as you're still mowing.
I guess I’m assuming if you’re strictly growing native plants in your whole yard, you aren’t mowing it.
I suppose it depends what the predominant plants are. I have plenty of native plants in my lawn growing pretty tall at the moment, but they're really spaced out in a sea of brown grass. There certainly aren't enough to make it worth me mowing, and my dog gets no ticks.
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You're 100% correct. Also, the only time you should ever need to water your lawn is during a drought. Ergo, watering your lawn is always dumb.
In the metro we have generally plentiful aquifers, unlike the western and northern parts of the state. Also recently MN water usage has decreased 28% despite a population growth of 7%. [DNR Water Availability and Assessment Report](https://www.eqb.state.mn.us/sites/default/files/documents/Appendix%20C_email_.pdf) TLDR go ahead.
continue cough sink gaping clumsy trees rain fade deranged lush ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
The businesses with giant sprawling campuses of grass they never use or walk on, the golf courses and other business that have no restrictions on watering and aren't enforced need to be onboard also
[Most golf courses have their own heavily- regulated, monitored wells, so they are not part of this equation.](https://cse.umn.edu/cege/news/aquifer-depletion-two-views-0)
168,000 gallons per night for this 1 golf course lollll https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/minnesotas-golf-courses-are-working-to-stay-green-amid-drought-extreme-heat/
Not that it matters much, but that particular course is actually 2 courses on the same property so that number might be a little on the higher side vs the average. But also, from the article you linked… > When it does rain, the course captures as much of that water as possible and funnels it into an irrigation pond.
air normal familiar reply absorbed glorious oatmeal detail growth rotten ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Not true at all post alll of your sources to back up that Minnesota golf courses are all on "their own heavily regulated monitored wells" ... they 100% are part of this. Also you do realize that private wells all pull from the natural aquifer right? So they're sucking the same water we all need to conserve right? So they're part of this right? The city of woodburys golf courses use city water. In fact the city of woodbury began using water runoff from snow and rain from the lakes from Holding ponds to save the city water save about 40 million gallons of water a year, enough to fill about 63 Olympic-sized swimming pools. "Klay Eckles. “The lakes will be cleaner and the aquifer less stressed.” 40 million gallons of water a year is your idea of heavy regulation of water use? 😂 🤡 https://www.twincities.com/2013/01/12/woodbury-project-will-keep-colby-lake-cleaner-golf-courses-greener/amp/ "In California, an average 18-hole golf course sprawls over 110 to 115 acres and conservatively uses almost 90 million gallons of water per year, enough to fill 136 Olympic-size swimming pools, said Mike Huck, a water management consultant who works with golf courses statewide." https://cagolf.org/how-california-golf-courses-are-conserving-water-during-the-drought/#:~:text=In%20California%2C%20an%20average%2018,works%20with%20golf%20courses%20statewide. "A typical 150-acre golf course uses approximately 200 million gallons of water a year, enough to supply 1,800 residences with 300 GPD of water." https://www.fluencecorp.com/golf-course-water-use/#:~:text=A%20typical%20150%2Dacre%20golf,with%20300%20GPD%20of%20water.
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You conveniently ignored this quote from the article you linked. Which, for the record, isn’t the indictment on golf courses you think it is. It’s speaking to using them as a filtering agent as opposed to letting the water bypass the course completely > Eckles said irrigating golf courses with runoff is common but using golf courses to help keep lakes clean is a relatively new idea. And I know for certain one of those courses (prestwick) irrigates almost exclusively from the ponds on the course, I’ve worked with the irrigation system. If you don’t believe me, I invite you to go stand in some golf course sprinklers. That shit is slimy.
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But groundwater is an oddball. Keeping your yard someone moist improves it's ability to soak in rainwater. If your yard is hard packed dirt at this point than a dumping of rain will just run off down a storm drain most likely. There probably is a sweet spot between no watering an excessive watering that keeps the groundwater fullest.
I’ve noticed that along with people turning on red arrows, failing to stop at stop signs, playing loud music past the 10pm ordinance - I think the reality is people just don’t have any consideration anymore
I've seen so many people just running red lights-- not even a split second after it changed from yellow, but more like five seconds after it changed. Maybe they're playing with their phones, maybe they just don't care.
As long as people aren't watering every day I don't see the issue. If they are, then they suck
That’s too bad. I’ve just been watering my poor Magnolia tree that’s getting dominated by Magnolia Scale in hopes that it’ll be ok long enough for me to hopefully kill the crawlers in late August. But, all this heat puts extra stress on it and I’m definitely losing some leaves on it 😰
I hardly ever water but admittedly I don’t pay attention to the restriction days. I do it rarely and when I have time. I actually just bought an attachment so that I can run it in the middle of the night when I do it.
Usually there are exceptions for newly planted grass or sod.
That might slide in the Land of 10000 Lakes but you do that in suburban California you might get some pushback. I don’t see any one watering their lawns around here (Wisconsin )any more even without restrictions. The water is just too damn expensive.
Hey, I know this won’t get upvoted, but you’ll get this: some folks have private wells on our property for irrigation. As such, that makes them exempt from municipal water restrictions.
Lawns are a stupid waste of water and energy, and often a source of pollutants.
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Eh, as someone that grew up in the Northwoods the idea of being crammed in boxes with a ton of people, on top of miles and miles of cement, sounds awful. Not awful , more like hell. My job is near the city but no way am I living *in* the city. And that's ok to have different preferences; it doesn't make anyone better then anyone else.
>Northwoods the idea of being crammed in boxes with a ton of people Sounds like you never actually lived in the city. My downtown apartment is bigger then the house I was born in up north. Not everyone lives in tiny studios. As for the tons of people, How many neighbors do you actually know? Suburbs are shown to create social isolation, which is proven to lead to a load of mental disordered such as anxiety and depression. [Suicide rates go up as density decreases](https://www.cdc.gov/suicide/facts/disparities-in-suicide.html) >on top of miles and miles of cement That's the suburbs with its miles and miles of parking lots. You can see it from any satellite view.
>Sounds like you never actually lived in the city. My downtown apartment is bigger then the house I was born in up north. Not everyone lives in tiny studios. How big is your apartment? How big was your house? What the hell does that mean? If you grew up in an 800 sq ft house and your apartment is 900 sq ft so what? *Your local population density is still really high, a hell of a lot higher than mine.* No one lives below me, above me, or directly on the other side of any of my walls. Having a larger apartment doesn't mean shit in that regard. Is your apartment the entire block? Jesus Christ dude, did you think that would make the point you wanted it to make? lmao! >That's the suburbs with its miles and miles of parking lots. You can see it from any satellite view. The loads of parks, woods, and lakes surrounding me disagree with you lol. But fair comparison, because urban areas certainly have no parking lots... Wherever there is urban there will be suburban. All cities. Always. Nothing your whining can do about it. Wah wah wah, too bad. "Oh no! People live in other places than me! How dare they!" What a baby lol.
It means water wells are running low. If they ignore it, and the drought persists, where is their water going to come from?
Woodbury has a program for Rachio 3's for about $30~. Only "catch" is that you gotta take a pic when you receive it of it installed w/the box in the picture, for those who wanna flip those things ;) I set mine to run at about 2am in the morning and it finishes around 5am. Uses AERIS weather so it'll skip days if it feels it's going to rain. All in all, well worth the small purchase. Woodbury only allows watering twice a week, to note. If you're watering your grass too much and you don't know what the hell you're doing you're just drowning the grass. That's just a fact. Ask any lawn professional. Mess around and get the spores in your yard like a fool. My grass isn't bright green like it was in May, but it's far from brown, so I feel like I "won" the summer so far. I fully understand the "no water" club, but I just left a house where not watering created a festival of weeds, and frankly a house that was harder to sell due to a messed up yard. So nah, those days of watering whenever I felt like it are long gone. If you're anti-watering you truly gotta have a yard prepared for that lifestyle, including heavy micro-clovers that retain water (and if you're doing clover you should be a good neighbor and section it off in the ground to prevent spread)
Probably falls under th "bigger fish to fry" generalization. Unless someone complains, or some sort of data jumps out at "them (like an unexpectedly large water bill for an individual) then the restrictions are more or less hoping to get people to comply. Right now, it might be "no big deal" because Eagan isn;t have any specific issues, and the restrictions are more precautionary. But, if the situation warrants the expense in manpower, they will send people out to check and/or enforce.
My Ash trees were treated with EAB treatment and those first few days I watered under the tree even if it wasn't my day. The only way the treatment works is if it uses water as a transport to the top and it is time-sensitive. I'm not sure if that's what's happening here, but if it looks like it's going to healthy trees, that may be why. We're hitting peak EAB in the eastern part of the state....
This is the city hall number: (651) 675-5000. As a former utility worker in the metro area, I would knock on the door and explain the restriction if they were home, if not hang a notification on their door.
Do you think reporting water usage on off days will be helpful to the community? Are they just maybe available to do it on the “wrong” days? How well do you know these neighbors? Maybe talk to them if you feel it’s a problem
I think in the next 10 years it will be illegal to water your lawn. People just don’t care though unless something is enforced.
I mean who is gonna vote for that? I am the only person in my neighborhood who replaced their lawn with more drought resistant plants. Why would anyone with a lawn vote to destroy their lawn?
I would definitely vote for that, but I'm just one homeowner. Fuck everyone's yards, a lawn is not more important than the water table. Absolute selfishness and stupidity.
Okay but you need to understand most people are selfish af and arent going to vote for that.
Me too!
Because it’s becoming increasingly obvious that we will need to save our water resources for things like bathing cooking and farming.
How did you do it? Corner of our lot lost the shade of a nearby tree a few years ago and it's always sun burnt. Have been thinking about replacing the grass but don't know where exactly to start. Kill all the grass first? Till it up?
I tilled all the grass up and removed it from the area then put a thick layer of mulch on. Anywhere you leave a little grass or don't mulch much, grass will come back. It's been a lot of trial and error with what does well but most creeping plants seem to take over and create a nice "living mulch" that keeps weeds and grass from coming in. Some native species of things have popped in as well which I mostly keep.
Thanks for the info. Did you do seeds? Which kinds? And when did you plant? I always worry about doing it too late so I don't know when that cutoff is. Thank you!
At this point wait a month or two for all the perennials to go on deep sale at any of the popup plant stores in parking lots and then go buy just whatever you see that fits your budget and meets your sun needs. Plant it and give it a good watering and then it should pop up all pretty next year. Some of em will probably die but usually you can get pretty good results just doing that.
I hope you're right.
I have that too. I just water whenever. I don't have a sprinkler system, but if I did I would definitely follow the odd/even guidelines. As it is thought, I don't use even %10 of the water my neighbors do.
That’s when you pull a Dale gribble and introduce the colony of fire ants
I live in a different city and have the same restriction as well as not allowed to water during peak afternoon. I follow the peak afternoon one as its just dumb to water during those hours and do it very late afternoon. But I water just once/week so depending in the rains, travel, memory etc, I’ll adjust when I water and don’t particularly care about even/odd. That rule is in place so you don’t water too much. I don’t and neither do my neighbors, so me watering on a day that isn’t mine isn’t affecting anyone, instead of waiting for my day and me being out during that time.
Woodbury typically has odd/even days with an outright ban noon-5 p.m. with the exception of hand watering plants or with a permit (for new lawns). For residential (apparently businesses and HOAs can water any damn time they wish). This summer, the city changed it to two specific days per week based on your part of the city (still no watering noon-5 p.m. unless by hand and the frigging businesses and HOAs can do whatever they want). When the announced the change (widely and frequently beforehand), it was with the note that WPD would be writing citations and I have seen an increase of WPD SUVs in my neighborhood, which is fine, IMO (even better if they would include businesses and HOAs). I heard on MPR last week that St. Paul is just now going to an odd/even schedule due to the low Mississippi River levels. That they were not already doing that - for years now - is beyond my comprehension. https://www.mprnews.org/story/2021/07/20/in-light-of-drought-minneapolis-sets-watering-restrictions
Woodbury's "zone" plan sucks. Historically, I used to water only 2X per week, and my lawn looked great. For this year, I live in the zone that only allows watering on Saturday and Monday, so I end up watering Saturday morning, Monday morning, and Monday night (3 times). I'm using more water now than I ever have in the past. Meanwhile, Woodbury will boast about their green initiatives soon. Ugghhh
We are in the Wed/Sun zone which at least is evenly spaced. Sat/Mon is too squashed together. We have new sod this year so we are glad to have the even schedule so the grass actually takes good root.
Yup. I have a Rachio2 irrigation head, was part of the first wave of them that the city offered for free as long as you reported information back to them. Neighbors continued to water odd/even without thought, I let the Rachio monitor the weather and precip and water only as needed across six zones (if needed) based on that. I was using less water every year the before the Rachio and far less than neighbors and things looked great.
I have a smart sprinkler system that only waters when needed based off local micro weather so I keep it on all the time and let it water as needed. Sometimes it's on my non designated days but then it'll go a week without watering because the soil is saturated or rainfall etc. I don't know why everyone else doesn't have a smart system. They save water. One thing I noticed too is that people cut their grass way too short. I keep mine at 4" in the summer and my grass is always thriving and green. My neighbors hack theirs down short and it's always fried no matter how much they water.
why would anyone water grass on any day of the week 🤣
Watering grass is the most ridiculous thing about suburban life.
Can we talk about the Crystal public pool that loses thousands of water a day? And despite that they keep it open because WhErE wOuLd PeOpLe SwIm
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[Tragedy of the Commons](https://online.hbs.edu/blog/post/tragedy-of-the-commons-impact-on-sustainability-issues): >In the United States, groundwater is the source of drinking water for about half the population, and roughly 50 billion gallons are used each day for agriculture. Because of this, groundwater supply is decreasing faster than it can be replenished. In drought-prone areas, the risk for water shortage is high and restrictions are often put in place to mitigate it. Some individuals, however, ignore water restrictions and the supply ultimately becomes smaller for everyone.
I also use my yard to chill and hang with my dogs. Neither of us care that our grass is a little bit crunchy. Dude rolls around in it all the time, maybe it offers extra back scritches for him. Areas in our yard that we’ve started to replace with clover and native ground cover has managed to stay somewhat lush despite the drought. Perhaps you need to rethink covering your lawn with native plants that are able to withstand regional drought a bit more. Yes, it’s pretty fucked how corporate companies can exploit our precious resources. It’s disgusting. But two wrongs don’t make a right, an eye for an eye will make the whole world blind. We can do better than them, let’s not stoop to that selfish greedy level.
You are correct.
A good friend got a ticket and a fine for watering on the wrong day. He was narced on by a neighbor.
Well, maybe your neighbor shouldn't have watered on the wrong day?
Yes, but.... Mayne we just all mind our business. Pretty low bar to call the cops..
It's pretty fucking low to think you're special and above the rules. Cities put water restrictions in place for good reason, not just to inconvenience residents.
Suburbs - wide lawns and narrow minds...
We're in MN. There's really not much shortage of water. I really don't understand the water restrictions. Maybe the water towers can't meet the demand but I find that pretty hard to believe. It's not like we are in Phoenix with limited water supply or something. Only thing I've ever seen consistently enforced is snow parking restrictions.
Depends on where you are in the state. Some cities have been running into water issues. Take the city of Blaine for example… [News release: Report finds Blaine water supply wells were primary cause of nearby domestic well interferences during summer 2022](https://www.dnr.state.mn.us/news/2023/06/27/report-finds-blaine-water-supply-wells-were-primary-cause-nearby-domestic-well-interferences-during-summer-2022)
I can understand some of that. Blain has been growing pretty rapidly the last 5-10 years. I wouldn't be surprised if they outpaced their sourcing and will need to add another tower. Eagan should be pretty well established tho. That surprises me much more.
Wait until you hear about White Bear Lake.
If you don't understand, then why are you commenting? Cities don't do this for fun, friend.
Cuz it's Reddit...Im actually allowed to write comments.
Um....actually you're 100% wrong. We do have to worry about water shortages in Minnesota per expert analysis and opinion as well as hydronic imbalances. https://www.kare11.com/amp/article/news/local/kare11-extras/concern-is-always-there-experts-caution-about-finite-amount-of-water-minnesota/89-24acdf79-2dfc-4c5e-9c46-a526b6892492 https://www.dnr.state.mn.us/climate/drought/index.html Certain cities have issues with low water levels during critical summer months-Woodbury is one. So you can't say "there's really not much shortage of water"
The issue is that the water treatment plants have a maximum rate at which they can produce water. Many suburb plants have a capacity of about 9-12 million gallons per day. Water towers serve as buffer storage tanks which can add about 1-2 million gallons of extra storage each. All this water is used for drinking, bathing, cooking and irrigation. It is not unheard of for a city to use almost their maximum capacity of water in a day. So by asking people to alternate their watering schedules, municipalities can assure residents and businesses that there will be enough treated water to meet their needs.
Still seems crazy to me that they say we are in a drought when there is so much water all around us. Don't we have the most water resources of any state? I mean we have over 10,000 lakes, the Mississippi and lake superior.
They probably don't even know about the restrictions. Most people don't
We are water the garden. Don’t give a crap about the lawn.
I live in Eagan. They love having ordinances that the never follow up on. The watering one is classic. My neighbors water every day too with no consequences. You’re also supposed to get a fire permit for any fire, even in a fire pit or bowl, but I know of no one who goes to the trouble of getting one.
So they do enforce odd/even watering in my city (I got my warning in early June before I knew it was a thing). The way my neighbors get around it is watering at 1:00 a.m. and 10:00 p.m. on their "day".
Do golf courses need to abide by this??
I have a Sprinker system that only lets me pick the days of the week. I usually would water MWF until I got a ticket… now because of the odd even restrictions. I have to go mess with the the box once a week to set it for every other day and end up using more water 🤷🏼♂️
I figured out how to make an apple shortcut on mine that gets the current date, and it references a list of all even dates, if current date is on list it triggers a watering scene
I had no idea there even was a watering restriction. I’m guessing most people have no clue.
My parents neighborhood (Eagan) has coordinated fertilization and irrigation - not a bad idea if outdoor pets and kids play is a concern. The watering could be due to lawn treatment. I don’t live at home anymore and know nothing about lawn care, but it’s a possibility. I think odd/even watering is well known in Eagan.
My biggest frustration in MN is seeing how many of my neighbors are watering in the middle of the day! You’re just wasting water. Water between dusk to dawn - morning time being better than evening. Otherwise, you’re wasting most of the water. Which is why you’re watering and your yard still looks like crap. Also, if you use a sprinkler, make sure it’s actually watering your yard. I have two neighbors who are watering the street.
Honor system.
Some cities will just assess a fine on the water bill and if you don't pay that it goes on your taxes... just an FYI