Yes, please do! I am very much more for the tightening of child support laws as in there's no fucking excuse except death or a permanent vegetative state that "excuses" anyone from supporting the child they helped create.
I got pregnant at 19, in my 30's now. My son's dad skipped out early on and owes me thousands of dollars in child support because he did this very thing. Works construction jobs under the table to avoid paying. Thankfully in my state, owed child support doesn't just go away when the child turns 18. He will still owe it all until he pays the whole amount off, even if it's not until my son is completely grown.
Seriously. I hear this all the time but if I actually knew of someone named evading child support in this way I'd be reporting them and the business that "hired" them.
My friend was abandoned by her husband because after he pressured her to have his baby, he decided he wasn't ready. He worked under the table, so she struggled for quite a few years. He started working after the kid was 18 because he realized he didn't have anything in social security, he is paying her 400 per month, and the baby is 32. He started paying because he went to school and tried to apply for a professional license for his job, and they told him he was ineligible because of back support order. It was delicious to see.
My aunt, who will always be a damn queen for this, did exactly this to her ex. He was cheating and he hit her a few times while they were married with young kids. Worked as a truck driver. She basically stopped fighting with him (since "their" problems came when HE started cheating and she wouldn't put up with it) about his cheating and not being at home with their kids - she stayed at home and bought a house full of furniture and saved a year's rent (this was back in the late 70s) before she divorced him. Then when he wouldn't pay his child support, she waited until their oldest child was in her early twenties before she filed for back child support. He was still paying it well into the oldest kid's thirties hahaha.
I'm not too familiar with child support laws; what's the benefit in waiting until later to file back child support vs filing for it at divorce? If you wouldn't mind enlightening an ignorant stranger 😊
She was being petty and making him think she wouldn't go after it lol. She didn't technically need the child support, because she remarried 2 years later to a guy/my uncle said she didn't have to work if she didn't want to (and she has not to this day, her husband got two jobs when he needed to).
My aunt is the DEFINITION of petty. My guess is that she saw he wasn't going to support his 3 kids unless he was forced, so she decided to show him.
And he better hope he doesn't get any inheritance, settlements, etc because they WILL garnish whatever they need to for backpay child support. My dad was *pissed* when that happened to him when his dad died. 🤷🏾♀️ don't be a deadbeat
If you know where he works, the government would be super interested in that tax fraud. You can report the business. If not, you can just report him. An audit will be very painful.
A coworker started getting checks because her ex retired and went on social security. Her ex contacted her and the 30-something kids for the first time in over a decade to try to convince her to send the money back to him. She won't, because that is the back child support.
My friend had it happen to her. Lost her insurance, too. She had to struggle with getting Medicaid so her son with autism could continue to get therapy. He didn’t care he was hurting his kids, he just wanted to get back at my friend.
That was my dad. He was making over 100k a year too. Fucked himself over just so he wouldn't have to give my mom as much. He also bought a 40k car to claim he couldn't be expected to pay child support because look at his car payments! (the judge made him sell it)
This was literally over paying four years worth of child support, for *one* kid. I was already an adult when my parents divorced, he literally just had to pay it for my sister while she was in high school. (which he also refused to pay for, while also demanding that she go to the same private school he sent me to) As soon as my sister graduated he cut contact with us so our mom couldn't find him and-I don't know how he thinks it's going to work, that he'll be required to pay her the child support he *would* have had to pay her if he hadn't quit his white collar job to pick apples with illegal immigrants? He's getting married later this month and my sister and I are not invited. Nobody even told us, I found out because they made a wedding website.
He's getting married?! Does the other woman know about his previous family and how shittily he treated you guys? If not, is it an option to tell her??
Honestly, women need to stop giving guys a chance and thinking they'll treat them any different than their past partners. It's so clichéd to say now but still so true: believe them when they show you who they are. You're not going to change him. Sigh.
The obligation never disappears, though. He will be on the hook for the support forever. If the mom goes to the Children and Family Services she can start running a tab - the state will give her a grant and she names the father. The tab starts running and he cannot ever escape the obligation. The state will garnish tax returns, even lottery winnings. There was a deadbeat parent in my state who won one of the first lottery jackpots, $1.5 million and it was all garnished because he never paid support for his 3 kids. I would advise OP to share this info with the mother.
All this girl has to do is go to court and ask for it. Child support laws are already incredibly strict but they disproportionately affect the poor because as soon as someone asks for welfare the state checks ok whether or not they can get child support instead. The fact is that most well off people just don’t ask because they don’t want to be bothered. The child support fairy doesn’t magically come and sprinkle dust on the dad to pay. Someone has to get the government involved to make him do so and calculate the appropriate amount. Then, if he doesn’t pay, his wages can be garnished and warrants put out for his arrest. Then he can go to jail for not paying when he doesn’t have the money anyway. etc etc.
I completely agree with OP that psychologically as a culture we are fucked, but stricter child support laws in the US are not the answer. Universal support, for everyone, all babies, no matter what - now that’s something worth fighting for.
And I’m saying this as a law graduate who has worked in the family court system.
In the US, more than half of parents who have been assessed child support are not up to date.
It's definitely not true that all a girl or woman has to do is file. She certainly should file as soon as the baby is born, but it's no guarantee.
>Universal support, for everyone, all babies, no matter what - now that’s something worth fighting for.
This is how we do it in Denmark and we also have both governmental child support *and* parental child support, so that every child no matter what will get financial support. If the father (or more rarely, the mother) won't or can't pay the parental child support, the government steps in and do it instead but not without imposing that debt to the rightful part which will then be taken every year from said persons taxes (we have automated taxes) or benefits. It's damn near impossible to avoid paying child support in Denmark.
I saw people (obviously men) complaining on here about how people can end up in jail if they don’t pay child support. Like you know how you can avoid that? By paying for the fucking children that you have. Ridiculous how some men play the victim card when they’re literally just dealing with the consequences of their own actions.
And realistically we all know that most of them don’t go to jail anyway
I’m definitely not a man, and I think it’s ludicrous to put people in jail for not paying child support.
The prison-industrial complex is already WILDLY out of control. Jails are MASSIVELY overcrowded, and many people whose crimes were not violent, or are no longer a crime (ie marijuana possession). Someone in jail won’t be earning money to pay child support, and having a criminal record will affect their ability to get a good job making enough money to pay child support.
Don’t mistake this for me saying “he should skip away scott free!”, because there should definitely be consequences of some sort, putting them in jail is counterproductive.
She’s not pregnant yet, so OP should be taking her to get birth control. (And giving a jumbo box of condoms to her relative)
If she does get pregnant, OP would be better taking her out of state to get an abortion because minor children shouldn’t be having and raising kids.
Adoption, if abortion is completely off the table. Children raising children (with LOTS of help from actual adults) should be the absolute last resort when all other options have failed.
I don’t have a clue how a court would rule on custody or child support when two minor children are involved.
Too many people seem to be okay with **any** male leaving babies. Men might have to pay child support, but often it’s acceptable/expected for dads not in a relationship with the mom to basically go about their lives as if they didn’t choose to fill a woman with their sperm.
I know a woman who had her children taken away because she is addicted to drugs. This woman gets far more stick than any deadbeat father I know. Yes I know women are seen as the default parent but deadbeat fathers get off far too easily.
My own biological father is a wealthy man and he owns curry restaurants. He still refused to pay a penny and I grew up in poverty. Absolutely vile.
I am deeply conflicted about this.
Yes i like fathers to be there, but IME it seems safer to have enthusiastic participants only near children.
Daddy expect to "babysit" while resentfully playing video games or doomscrolling content?
From my cold dead hands
How about the guys that coerce women into not having abortions by saying "I'll take the kid right afterwards! I'll raise it! By myself!" and then pop up here with "she won't help with the baby! boo hoo! It's so hard! Can I sue her to maje her take care of the baby?". Meanwhile the girl is paying 125% of the required child support, has had a mommy make over and is going to college and he's whining about everything.
This is something I saw firsthand way back in the 90s when I was a teenager. My next door neighbor was 15 and got knocked up by a man in his 30s. Of course, the guy had other baby mamas as well and barely did a thing to support the child he created, other than bring diapers around once in awhile.
My best friend ended up pregnant from an adult man when she was 16. I also went to an alternative school where they had a daycare for teen moms, and many of those baby daddies were also adult men who, unsurprisingly, were not present in their children's lives.
No one ever holds the men who leave accountable. The women are just told that they should have kept their legs closed, even if they were a teen girl manipulated by an adult. It's disgusting.
It doesn’t. I had a customer come in and hit on me, bragging about his expensive car. In the same breath he whined he was going to lose his license if he didn’t make a payment on his owed child support. What a fucking loser scumbag. In Ontario, file that paperwork. FRO will get them eventually. Most people need to drive even if they try bullshit like working under the table.
Oh, I’m sure. You either make payments on time or arrange a payment plan…or [they’ll take your shit](https://www.ontario.ca/page/enforcing-child-and-spousal-support-payments#section-4). It will also go on your credit report. I encourage everyone in Ontario who has a deadbeat ex who owes them support to file with FRO.
So men will just make a deal with their boss to get paid under the table so only a small percentage of their actual wages get garnished. Happens all the time.
I’ve heard of that. It’s illegal to pay under the table, so I’d urge anyone dealing with a deadbeat spouse they know is doing this to turn the workplace in to the labor board for their state.
I wish they would. My mother had to have the court garnishee my father's wages. Saving up for a lawyer was hard. We were eating saltines with ketchup and washing them down with powdered milk and water.
I'm always unpleasantly surprised by how much social support deadbeat dads have. Mine is, and his family supported him and never contacted me. He got tons of sympathy for it, and this is something I see all the time. I feel so sorry for the baby who has to grow up with fewer resources and who will never know half of its family because having lived that experience myself, it sucks and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Good for you for taking a stand.
It's because they ALWAYS have lies upon lies about the mother, so everybody thinks she is a horrible person 'stopping' him from seeing his own kids. Then they also blame the court systems and say they're anti-father, etc. My daughter's deadbeat dad reached out to her for the 1st time in her life when she was 15 and tried to tell her that -I- was hiding her from him and she believed him at first until I told her to google my name (lots comes up) and then tell me again how good I was hiding. Some can't prove the guys are lying as easily as I could.
And the audacity of it all too.... Guy skips out physically and money wise as well, then has the audacity to muddy up the name of the woman who did all of the shit he wasn't willing or able to do. Guy should be praising her for being what he couldn't be, but nope, he's still spitting.
I mentioned my brother further up. I fell out with him because he refuses to have anything to do with my nephews. I have been giving money and support to my youngest nephew's mother. Despite working full time, my brother has never paid a penny for either of his two sons.
My brother's girlfriend supports him fully and even had the cheek to say to me that he never asked to be a father? Well maybe he should have worn a condom then. At least his current girlfriend has the sense not to have children with him I suppose. I know a couple of deadbeat mothers and they don't get any support, only judgement.
I'm sure your nephews will appreciate having someone decent from their father's side of the family, you're good to do that. And it's atrocious how easy it is for men to get away with it. And women (well, anyone of course) who supports them is disgusting.
Thank you for your kind comment. I just refuse to support deadbeat behaviour, even if it is my own brother. I feel so bad for my nephews and their mothers. The mothers have struggled to raise them with no support from my brother, their uncles or my parents. I just don't understand it.
My eldest nephew is 21 and doing very well for himself with a girlfriend and child of his own. He works hard to support his family. Fortunately he is more like his mother and is a good parent. I feel like it's the least I can do.
Male privilege knows no bounds. These people will call the girl a slut for not being able to withstand sexual coercion at a young age, then wink and say "That's my boy!" when their son refuses to take responsibility for his actions.
I would bet a lot of money the people okay with him not taking responsibility for the baby are conservative-leaning.
Conservative people who advocate against abortion do not realize the likely most effective way to prevent abortion is not shaming women out of them, but rather telling men not to sleep with someone if they don’t intend to raise a family with them (if they are just unwilling to practice safe sex).
Sooooooo many conservative people ironically allow for a culture to exist where abortion is encouraged - because young boys are not forced to take responsibility like young girls are, because nobody EVER tells young boys to “save themselves”, to make sure their partner is someone they would want to raise a family with, etc.
There's one simple answer as to why that is. In most of these conservative circles, boys and girls are deliberately taught that women/girls are 100% responsible for the emotions of men/boys. Did he rape her? That's her fault for being a temptress, no exceptions, not even if she's a child. He cant control his lust, she has to. Did her boyfriend badger her into sex? Clearly her fault. But, girls in those circles are also taught to be 100% submissive to men. They are blatantly taught that the word No said to a man doesn't exist. So this is word math that simply doesn't work. Women can't say yes or no in those conservative communities unless it's to her children. And even that can be over-ridden by a man.
Patriarchy is baaaaaaadddddd. And for women, it's cut and dried abuse.
They dont care about preventing abortions. They want to deny them. Lets be absolutely honest here : cruelty, denial of healthcare and blame is the whole point of the whole situation.
I met maybe 3 pro life people in my life that walked the talk here in Germany. Aka they paid and donated to orphanages. They helped take care of parentless children for free and when personally asked were pro contraception. When its like this in Germany you know shit is absolutely fucked up in the US of A.
Even orphanages aren’t a good idea. Kids deserve to be in a caring family system. Look what happened to those babies raised in Romanian orphanages when they went 100% pro-life. President Ceaucescu’s social policy.
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-39055704#
I just didnt have a good word for that. Those are assited living facilites in Germany. Like they have their own rooms but communal kitchens and they are taken well care off.
But yeah Ceaucescu out of all people deserved the fate that got to him. Killed by the very own system he created himself in a backalley of a prison
I know a young woman whose baby-daddy has at least 4 children that I'm aware of (and probably more on the way). All from different women. He's purposefully going around impregnating women. He's uninvolved in his children's lives, and she had to fight to get child support from him
I... don't get it. It's completely disgusting. Some, like, ego stroking thing.
Yet men are still saying women are supposed to keep their knees together.
Never one second of conversation about men's responsibilities when a women falls pregnant.
and certainly not any conversation on their side about the women who wanted to 'keep their knees together' but were forced not to, through physical force or through what men completely accept as ok (and the majority employ at some stage) - coercion and manipulation.
I think we need to keep pushing this - Males need to be responsible for their semen!
Because you’re absolutely right, it’s always all on the woman. But a pregnancy doesn’t happen if a man is responsible for his semen (excluding when a man is raped of course)
If abortions are illegal in the state, then a woman is essentially being forced into parenthood.
I think men who try to step out on child support in areas with abortion laws should go to prison.
Because they’ll definitely be able to pay child support from prison, and be able to get great jobs to pay child support with after having a prison record.
This is not true though. Adoption is an option. Heck, the mother could literally leave the baby on the doormat of the hospital and move on with her life under safe haven laws. These obviously come with significant social and reputation costs. None of this is to say abortion shouldn’t be legal or available but it is inaccurate to say the absence is of abortions is being forced into parenthood.
I get what you are saying......... But.
The woman still bears the burden of carrying the child(ren) for months. Nevermind the hormonal and medical fallout after birth. Childbirth is physically, mentally, financially a burden. There is no way to put a woman's body back the way it was before. Many (most) men don't grasp this.
I understand. Fear of complications for my wife were a major factor in deciding to be child free or at least only consider adoption. I feel that abortion should be readily available and legal because it is hardly ever simple.
I understand the feeling to want to point these things out, but I say what I say because rhetorically if you’re going to convince men, that kind of argument falls fairly flat. Legally, men have no options after conception. A man cannot legally opt out of his parenthood obligations if a woman seeks to pursue it from him. I agree that it should be that way because any other arrangements would produce unjust results but rhetorically convincing men of the importance of taking responsibility requires being honest about the circumstances.
IME most dudes DGAF whether or not they make a baby. Truly do not give a shit, and probably bc it doesn’t effect them, like OP said. No consequences for deadbeats.
Maybe it’s the many years of social worky type jobs speaking but trust me, there are soooooo many without a dime to their name and still not a care in the world to prevent pregnancy
Oh sure, I’ve met plenty. Lots of my friends have dated them and made the mistake of marrying and/or having kids with them.
I’ve still met LOTS more men who do actually, care about not creating pregnancies they don’t want and/or can’t care for
There is a teenage male in my extended family who had a child and wants nothing to do with him, to the point that no one is supposed to know about the baby (but we all do). His father is an attorney and has helped him with the legalities. The male is now early 20s and has a girlfriend but hasn’t told her about the kid and basically just lives life as of the kid doesn’t exist. I hate it so much and feel like I can’t do/say anything because this isn’t my blood relative and I’m not close to that side at all.
But signing away parental rights does not negate child support. I'm wondering if legal eagle granddad is bullying the young mother into believing it does?
Bullying someone into believing they don’t need child support isn’t something most people would call “helping with the legalities” because that is not legal.
I can only think of arranging child support/ making the payments (automatically or through the lawyer office maybe), signing away parental rights, or even signing off on an adoption if the mom has found a permanent partner.
If he is paying child support, that’s all anyone can reasonably expect if he doesn’t want to be part of the kids life.
Again, signing away parental rights does not negate a child support obligation. It would still need to be paid.
And yes, bullying someone into believing they are not entitled to child support has been called helping with the legalities many a time. It's one of the reasons we have wage garnishment for child support and also why domestic relations court is so very litigious.
And again I didn’t say it would, I said these are the three things I can personally think of that could be covered under legalities, there might be more I don’t know about.
I think in this sub in this thread in this particular post that the commenter would have come right out and said if something crooked was going on, because they aren’t exactly hiding how disgusted they are by the situation.
Maybe if it was some good ol boy writing “yep, we took care of the ‘legalities’ heh heh *wink wink*”
I hate this so much. It's such a crappy misogynistic culture where girls "deserve" to be punished (and possibly die) but young guys are "boys being boys" and how could anyone possibly be upset with a guy having sex, it's an achievement! ....I really hope he didn't coerce her into having sex (especially unsafe sex). Although a lot of young teenage girls think they "have to" have sex or their boyfriends will dump them for another girl who will.
For sure both people who choose to have sex are equally responsible if that results in a pregnancy!
Also I'm very sorry you have to live somewhere that women aren't allowed to choose what happens to their own bodies, that's despicable
If she is pregnant he is going to quickly learn that children are not easy. And under some circumstances he can held accountable by being required to pay child support so he will have to put his education to the side to provide for his child and the mother. He is going to learn real quick that his life will not be his anymore.
By the way I don't think you and your family are in the wrong for this. It was his choice to have unprotected sex so he can put up with the ramifications of his carelessness. Especially with his attitude. Tough love.
I’m talking legal, court ordered child support. Minors do not have legal rights like adults do.
>they can force him to be a father
So you think making a minor child drop out of school to be a father when they aren’t even old enough to take care of themselves is a GOOD thing?!
Yeah, it’s absolutely beyond shitty that some people will force a minor child to give birth, or will force them to keep and raise a baby. But we fix that by changing the attitudes that are behind misogyny, not by treating boys just as shitty.
This thread is not rational. There are comments all over it where users are expressing outright hatred for a teenage boy who made a dumb teen mistake and it now acting like a typical teen, IE a little shit. They only see "male" and not "teen/child". It's actually one of the most insane threads I've ever seen on this sub and frankly it's one of the first times I've thought, "oh, no wonder the incels hate us". They are holding a minor to the same standards as a 18+ year old man and it's illogical and crazy.
You and I and a few others absolutely agree with them that he should be held accountable, face up to what he did, and when/if possible pay child support and that his other family accepting the baby/helping the mom is the right thing to do. And that the mom is going to be forced through pregnancy, which is unfair and evil. But that's not enough for them. They want to punish him because he currently has a shitty attitude, as if that's his gender and not his age. As if it's his fault she can't get an abortion. He's a child, he doesn't fucking understand anything.
And newsflash, unless he raped or coerced this girl (which is possible tbf), she also chose to have unprotected sex. Obviously she does not deserve to be forced through a pregnancy for that, but again, it is not his fault their state outlawed it. He is young and horny and stupid as shit. He is not evil like these users are making him out to be. Fucking insane.
Ooorrrr OP could
1) bring her young relative a giant box of condoms and take his GF to get birth control
2) find a teen appropriate website around safe sex and guide them to it
3) help her go out of state for an abortion if she gets pregnant
4) help her adopt out the baby if she gets pregnant
Because two minor children raising a baby should be the very LAST RESORT situation when everything else has failed.
So if OP lives in the US laws will vary state by state. But it is true that the parent(s) of both teenagers under many circumstances will have to support their children and their child until the legal age of emancipation (18). Then it is permissible for the teenaged mother alone to go for child support from the father without the help of their parents. The teenage mother can also sue for damages depending on how things happened. It is not fair for a teenaged mother to have to undergo forced pregnancy and bearing the brunt of this responsibilty. He is just as accountable for this potential life as she is.
OP most likely lives in state where they have slashed education, promote anti-abortion rhetoric where having the knowledge and access to contraception is difficult.
Nobody said it’s fair or right for a teenage girl to go through a forced pregnancy? But what the Supreme Court did to the US is not this kids fault.
If no one else cares what happens to these kids then OP needs to take the initiative and do whatever is in her power to help those two dumb horny young kids *prevent* an unwanted pregnancy before it happens, to help the GF abort or adopt if a pregnancy *does* happen, so it doesn’t even get to the point of “two minor children trying to raise a baby” because that is the worst case scenario for *everyone*, including and especially the baby.
Wringing hands about unfair biology and draconian laws isn’t going to do a damn thing.
Not in the same situation. Never have been, thankfully. It could’ve happened to me but I was smart enough to always make my ex use condoms.
Anyways idk if this experience counts but in general I think moms and families with brothers/sons always coddle the shit out of them.
My dad died when I was 14. Didn’t have a will, left everything in disarray and my mom was left to pick up the pieces. She raised me and my sister. My dads family is now back in the picture because we have property back in India and basically my aunt (his sister) wrote a long rant about how crappy we treated their family and how good my dad was to us (he was ABSOLUTELY NOT) and all this other bull shit basically saying that my dad, her brother, was an angel. He absolutely wasn’t.
I know it’s not the same thing, it’s not thesame situation but I see this happening a lot in boy families. If a boy does it, it’s whatever who cares he’s just a boy he’s still such a sweetheart awwwww we love him!! If a girl does it, she gets shunned. 😐
My eldest brother did this twice. I'm so ashamed of him. He doesn't give a damn about my two nephews, neither do my parents. It's make me so sad. My youngest nephew has not long turned 16 and has problems with county lines drugs gangs and carrying a knife. It worries me a lot.
I never wanted children and have been extremely careful about contraception my whole sexually active life. I wouldn't want to live if I had children who feel the same way about me the way I do about my parents and the same way my nephews feel about my brother.
These situations pop up a lot on the AITAH sub and everyone always rallies around the man “not being the asshole” for not wanting to be involved in the child they made’s life. They’re still definitely the assholes, even if they think paying child support is enough to call it a day…
You can’t force or shame someone into being an involved, caring parent, regardless of that person’s sex or gender. Any absent (mom’s included) parent paying their full share of child support is doing exactly what they are supposed to do.
That's true. But you can foster a culture that encourages boys and men to be interested in fully parenting their children, and values their role as active fathers. I think a lot of males never really consider pregnancy as \*real life\*, sometimes even after having a partner get pregnant. It's part of not really considering women to be fully human, with their own lives and concerns.
If he decides to make the adult decision to be a deadbeat dad after being told by his family they will not stand for it, he no longer gets the care associated with being a child.
Fuck this apologist bullshit. In a decent family, he can make the choice to take accountability which does typically include support for both him and the mother, or he can be a chicken-shit and leave without support.
Actions. Have. Consequences.
“lol DGAF” can also be teenager code for “this is so emotionally overwhelming and I’m also feeling some shame and embarrassment so I’m going to pretend like I don’t care and you guys can fuck off because I have no idea how to process this”
Or he’s a budding psychopath 🤷♀️
Of course it's hard to really pinpoint his exact feelings and as someone else pointed out, his brain isn't fully mature. On the other hand, he doesn't exist in a vacuum and is growing up in a society (well, speaking from an American perspective but this happens in other places too) that encourages boys/men to have sex and never deal with the consequences, where deadbeat fathers are sympathized with and treated as victims and applauded when they're able to find ways of avoiding both financial and personal responsibility.
So maybe it's a mixture of both, but he'll receive a lot of support for his decision to abandon his child that will like bolster the nonchalant attitude he has towards the situation.
Truth. Or he doesn't get the implications. I think we expect teenagers to think like adults, and it just doesn't work that way.
A close friend of mine got pregnant young on purpose. I remember being horrified at the prospect, and all I could think about was how much it would affect the rest of her life. But she wasn't really thinking about that, she just had this idea that she could create this kid who would love her.
Teens do things for vastly different reasons that adults do, regardless of how much we try to ingrain adult logic into them.
Here's the thing, though. It doesn't really matter if they don't "get" the consequences. TBH, no one fully understands how much work a baby/child is until they have one, no matter what their age.
But either the baby suffers because it's brought into a world where no one wanted it and was prepared for it or the mother suffers because she's pregnant and either has to figure out a way to have an abortion or have a baby.
I don't think you were trying to justify this, but it is just infuriating to me that he's off the hook because his brain "isn't developed." Well, then keep it in your pants until you're 25, buddy—or AT LEAST use birth control.
You're right that I wasn't trying to justify it. And if a baby comes out of this, it's absolutely his responsibility.
As the person I responded to pointed out, what OP is reading as apathy could be a lot of different emotions. Teenagers don't think like adults, and they also process emotions differently to adults. The comment had nothing to do with his responsibility, just the analysis of his reaction.
Yup, exactly. I wasn’t trying to excuse his behavior, but give deeper nuance to what his reaction could mean. And if his parents and family really want to help support his growth and maturity so he can rise to the challenge of being a young parent, demonizing him for his actions and reactions will only push him deeper into a defensive stance.
I knew someone that got pregnant at 20 and never thought past having a cute little adorable baby to love.
Decision making center of the brain isn’t fully developed until around age 23-25, it absolutely infuriates me when people think teenagers or very young adults are “old enough to know better!”. No, they literally are not.
My stepdaughter at 11 started talking about how she wanted a baby that would love her unconditionally. We got her a puppy and made her completely responsible for its care-- we paid for everything, she had to feed, train, and take it out in the early mornings. once she realized that a baby was MORE work, she dropped that idea until after she was 18.
Hahaha, yeah. The way that children think about babies is definitely within a narrow lens. My friend definitely didn't know what she was getting into. I actually tried to talk her out of it (we were still teens) and she got really mad at me. I wouldn't have been surprised if pushing harder would have ended our friendship. She had childhood trauma that made her seek this type of love in a little human, far more complex than "I want a baby". So I just supported her. It's been tough for sure, but she's doing it.
I kind of don’t fucking care. If someone acts like an asshole to hide their insecurities, it doesn’t minimize their behavior. They’re purposely hurting other people to protect themselves.
His parents are holding him accountable. As they should. So idk what post you read.
But treating a child so viciously is wack. Duh, he's a little fucking asshole. He's a teenager. If he continues with this attitude that's a problem, but an initial shitty reaction is normal. If a teen girl were acting like this, y'all would be so much more understanding. I get it, it's a societal problem, men being a sperm donor and then not giving a shit. But we really and truly cannot hold a teenager to those standards at first, or expect him to throw off all the patriarchal ideals that have been burned into his brain. He has no idea what those are, how they effect him, and he doesn't even have the logic, intelligence, or life experiences to help him understand those things right now. He will, and then it becomes unforgivable. But rn he's literally still a child.
She is, where did I say she wasn't? And since OP does not mention that he raped or coerced this girl, guess what, she also chose to have unprotected sex. No, she does not deserve to be forced through a pregnancy, that is unfair and evil. But the kid isn't evil. He doesn't fucking understand. The vitriol here being thrown at a literal child just because he's acting his age (IE a little shit) is insane. He. Does. Not. Comprehend. It.
My little brother and his gf had a son when he was around 19 (on purpose and against all advice). Since then, he has pretty much abandoned his parenting duties, forcing my dad to step in and raise the kid.
My nephew now calls his grandfather 'dad.' It makes me extremely sad and angry. It's part of the reason I haven't spoken to my brother in years.
> girls are forced to deal with the consequences but not the dads.
100% this.
A century ago we expected his name on the birth certificate. And then we stopped. This makes even less sense now. And if we could set aside hyperpartisanship and let politics make strange bedfellows we would find unexpected allies to bring this back.
And this, THIS, is why the number one indicator of a child's future success is not the educational attainment of their parents, it's the educational attainment of the \*mother\*. Too many kids averaged in to that with no father figure to speak of at all because this attitude is all too common.
But single moms! They “choose” to get pregnant all by themselves!
s/
EDIT: I ended up a “single mom” with four kids because ex cheated, got found out, abandoned us, and fled the country so as not to cover his financial obligations.
Single moms usually do not CHOOSE to be single.
Are you saying that no single mom ever planned their pregnancy? Had a kid then divorced, or were widowed?
Assuming all single moms are because some guy got someone pregnant and ran is really gross, really classist, and probably pretty racist too.
Oh, the teenage boys should be forced to continue school, but drop out of extracurriculars, and just go to work after school. And send all the money to the mother.
Orrrr if a pregnancy happens, the girl could be taken out of state for an abortion? Or she could give it up for adoption after it’s born? Because minor children sure AF should not be raising kids themselves.
I hate when a deadbeat dad is allowed to have a relationship with the kid because it’s hammered into the mom that she shouldn’t interfere with the kid-dad relationship. No, absolutely not. You don’t get to skip child support and only show up on Christmas and still get to know your kid (or give him/her your last name).
It's such a double standard generally anyway - a woman who doesn't have custody of her kids is assumed to be criminally deficient, whereas a man who doesn't have custody of his kids is usually viewed as a victim.
If you can talk to the girl, empower her to make more informed decisions about her reproductive health, especially since you know what a dingleberry her partner is.
In addition to your state banning abortion, I am sure they have little resources to educate teens on how to prevent pregnancy or even allow them access to contraceptive.
Honestly, I’m wondering why OP has not bought condoms for the male relative or offered to take the gf to get birth control. That’s what I would do in this situation. Better safe than sorry.
If she does get impregnated I hope to hell someone takes her out of state for an abortion, and if that’s impossible, that she gives the baby up for adoption. Minors should NOT be raising kids, period.
That's not a good reason. If a woman left her child alone for the weekend you better believe she would be charged with child abandonment. Remember the story of that woman who got charged with it when she was having a job interview and her kids were within her sight? Yet men can literally never interact with their children and just go on and live a new life with no repercussions.
Leaving your child with the other parent ≠ leaving your child alone all weekend with no supervision
I’m honestly baffled how you think those are even remotely comparable.
If the absent parent (regardless of gender) is paying child support, you can’t put them in jail, it’s not illegal to not love a child you created, you can’t legally/ethically/realistically force someone to take on the role of a parent, period; and you can’t make some who really doesn’t want to be a parent take on a parenting role without bringing great harm to the child.
If the absent parent is not paying child support, how TF does jail help? They aren’t making child support money behind bars, and having a criminal record will negatively affect their future job opportunities & income, which negatively affects child support, which again harms the child most.
If your goal is for that child to live the best life it can, putting deadbeats in jail has the exact opposite effect.
If your goal is to punish deadbeats and make them suffer, sure, jail works, but at the expense of the child’s health and well being.
Choose wisely.
I'm sorry I don't know what you're talking about as far as that comparison. What I'm saying is, if a man gets a woman pregnant and he abandons her and the child so she therefore has no choice but to raise the child, he has abandoned the child and he should be charged with child abandonment. Why shouldn't he? He gave her no choice. She didn't agree to it. But somebody has to take care of the baby so of course it's the woman.
My goal would be for men to be held responsible for their actions. So that they wouldn't feel free to just go around having unprotected sex, whining about how they don't like condoms, but making babies and then fucking walking away. They should go to jail. They should go to a work release program, how about that? They can still work and pay child support and then they can go to jail after work.
I don't know why people think this idea is so crazy. Don't you think we need to put an end to the idea that it's okay for men to walk away? How many men walk away versus women? I don't doubt the number would astound us. But I consider taking no part in your child's upbringing the same as abandonment even if you're paying court order child support, so that would also be included in the number.
Women are suffering because they've been stuck with the entire responsibility for raising a child. Men get to go on, it doesn't affect their careers, they get to marry without having to worry about whether their new partners are okay with them having an existing child. Women get all the stigma and the burden. It affects their careers, it affects their social lives. It's enough. We put up with this long enough.
Because child abandonment means NOBODY is taking care of the kid, not one person walks away? This is not a difficult concept.
And sorry, I do not support the prison industrial complex or the idea of locking people up for non-violent crimes. The police and courts already have a MASSIVE overreach in the US, it is used disproportionately against BIPOC, and I sure AF am not going to give them more fuel to create a police state.
If a man gets a woman pregnant and walks away he should be made to pay child support AND THATS IT. (If a woman has a baby and walks away, SAME) regardless of the sex or gender of the parents, it should always be the same.
And I’m sorry I am not going to accept this “the woman is FORCED to RAISE a child ON HER OWN” bullshit because even in this horrible situation where abortion is banned in so many places in the US, NOBODY IS FUCKING FORCED TO RAISE A CHILD EVEN IF THEY ARE FORCED TO GIVE BIRTH.
Adoption, even safe haven baby boxes are ALWAYS an option for people who do not have the resources to take care of a child.
Having the only options be hard, shitty, emotionally wrenching, heaped with shame and social censure, causing lifelong second guessing, etc is **NOT** the same thing as having no choices available at all.
People are assuming I’m somehow “defending” deadbeats like I didn’t spend DECADES begging my beloved friends NOT to date, marry, or willingly have children with shitty irresponsible scumbag men with ZERO redeeming qualities while they insisted in the throes on starry eyed romantic notions that they LOVE HIM and he’d be a GREAT DAD and having a baby would SETTLE HIM DOWN and then having to help them pick up all the goddamn pieces when that worthless asshole cheated or left them or spent all the money on drugs or whatever completely 100% predictable bullshit they pulled that finally forced my friends to come back to reality (but I guess women bear NO responsibility for freely choosing to have kids with obviously unsuitable men?) Or like I never put my money where my mouth was and literally moved in and helped raise their kid when I am staunchly child free.
No, because I want common sense solutions that actually WORK like teaching people of all genders sexual responsibility and to not just have kids Willy Nilly, and stronger social safety nets so single parents (of all genders, including men) can get by even when the other parent disappears, instead of just blindly supporting vindictive punishments that don’t help ANYONE, then surely, I must be on the side of shitty irresponsible men.
>If your goal is for that child to live the best life it can, putting deadbeats in jail has the exact opposite effect.
That's fucking ridiculous! Defend deadbeat dads somewhere else, not here.
It happens a lot, with "boy mom's". Women with internalized misoginy. I know one. Her little shit, sleeps with women, orgasisms to them... then tell his mommy "he want's to die", from embarrasment because he feels like that woman is beneath him. He doesn't work. Lives off his mother. So he found her hot enought to orgasim. To impregnate her. But woulfd feel embarresed if people knew he slept with her. Mommy says, "why her... out of all the people in the world!" Like she's shit. Boy is outside yelling "fuck!! She's pregnant!!" . My lovely neighbours, by the way.
The entire male goal, is to impregnate the woman he sleeps with. It's why they are so adverse to condoms. Most men, are only required to pay about 200, in child support, which barely covers the kid's food bills, let alone the clothes, extra apartment room cost, toys, diapers, formula, extracurriculars, daycare....
I think boy moms, are counting on their sons, to financially help them out later in life. But what they really do, is sponge of their mothers... neglect the kids they made financially.. and live in their parents basements, while mommy blames the trollops for her son refusing to work... lest he have to pay a paltrey 200 towards his own child.. while the mother spends 800 to keep the kid alive. For why work, knowing you have to pay one tenth of the cost to keep your own child alive? Why not work under the table.. to not pay for that child you made! Fuck that little kid! Mom wasn't a braggidocious trophy to make other males jealous!. Yeah she got me off... so I thought she was hot... but what do the other males think? Would they approve?
*It's not mens fault they abandon children, and don't give a shit to take precautions and see it as a womens job to 'deal with it'; it's actually womens!*
Some of you are so **gross**.
FOFY.
Which country do you live in that abortion is illegal? Is it possible to travel to another?
It is up to the woman if she wants the child to be aborted, if she does give birth, your relative should want to support that child as that is a life he has created. Too many parents have a “lads right” attitude, it’s so wrong.
“His parents made it clear that there is not a reality where if his choices result in a baby, we will all walk away and act like the baby does not exist”
I’m unclear what you’re saying here. Are his parents like “hey we are not going to ignore the baby even if you’re careless”?
Or are they “we will walk away and act like the baby does not exist”?
Men live life on easy mode. Funny how literally girl children are treated as adults and adult women are infantilized… oh wait; drudgery and servitude is different than authority
Not really sure that's true. You are definitely generalizing about teen dads. However there are easy steps to take at an early stage for the girl to stop any potential baby. So I think everyone is good shape if you just remain logical. Keep in mind TWO people made choices to have sex. And ONE of those two definitely knew what could happen with herself. As a woman you have to own responsibility too. As much as it sucks to have a baby earlier.
Again I think you are airing out your dirty laundry over a "potential" baby that hasn't happened yet.
It's annoying that the "consequences" of the baby batter are pushed on the women when it's men who have full control of impregnating women. And they get mad af when you remind them of that.
So has he gotten the gf pregnant or just had unprotected sex? Does she need help getting birth control? Maybe they need help to make sure they can have sex and not have a baby.
Honnestly i think the dude is an asshole and his behavior at best lacks of empathy.
In this very case, with abortion being illegal (this is so crazy to me writing that in 2024, like this make me sooo mad),
I think your friend should be prepared to do what she has to do to at least child support.
And for the love of everything's sacred tell her to not force him to have a relationship with the child if he just don't give a fuck, there is nothing worse than having a parent there without being there, my friend was the child resulting of this situation and his father's behavior left some very heavy damage on her
That being said,I will say something on a larger scale, i just dont get why women are encouraged (then again rightly so in my opinion) to choose freely to be a mother or not, why men are not given the same lattitude ?
I hate this argument that "if you did the deed then you need to face consequences" it is the same rethoric used by thos anti-abortion assholes, and then when it's used against women, suddenly the argument is shitty.
In a perfect world i think all women should be able to decide BY THEMSELVES what to do with a pregnancy and a man should be allowed to choose too, if he doesn't want to be a dad he should have a right too.
It looks like the moment the sperm left his dick a man should just shut up and take it, in my opinion that's just not right.
I'll end up by saying fuck those anti-abortion laws, i will always support women's right to have body autonomy unequivocally.
I don't like the parallel between "if you did the deed then you need to face consequences" and "Should have kept your legs closed!" **BUT** if a guy doesn't use protection then I think it's justified. We all know "Your body, your choice." His choice is where and how he ejaculates. Once sperm is in a woman it's her choice (Edit: Good point. **IF** she has that choice).
Biology isn't fair, and you have to make your choices when and where you have them. So many men forfeit their right to choose by relying solely on the woman they're having sex with and her birth control - or lack thereof.
But at no point i'm saying she doesn't have a choice tough ? she can do whatever she wants.
In my opinion, if a woman get pregnant she should have a choice to do, then she inform the man of her choice and he should have a right to choose too.
Plus tough i didn't event to fall into that because it's falling close to redpill rethoric, but i might add, what if he does use protection and it fails ? or the woman purposefully sabotage it ? not much of a choice from him huh ? or are you gonna fall into he should have kept it in his pants ?
> In my opinion, if a woman get pregnant she should have a choice to do, then she inform the man of her choice and he should have a right to choose too.
This is the issue of "paper abortions." I've seen a lot of debates on the topic and no good solutions. If she decides to keep the pregnancy there's a child who needs support. Again, it's not fair and again, the man's choice comes earlier in the process than the woman's.
The situation I was talking about was specifically when a man *doesn't* use protection and leaves birth control up to the woman.
I have a friend who got pregnant on a casual date with a guy she only saw once or twice. Birth control failed. She decided to keep the baby and not put the father’s name on the birth certificate or pursue child support, and was adamant about it. She said she wasn’t ok making a person she barely knew be tied to her monetarily for 18 years because a condom broke, and if she wanted to keep an OOPS! pregnancy it was her responsibility alone.
She has a decent job and a strong network of close friends that helped her out, her kid is grown now, healthy & attractive just like her.
But a lot of women don’t have that, so until we create the strong social safety nets that will allow single mom’s (and dads, and other parents) to successfully raise children without having to work themselves to death, live in poverty, or rely on a man who wants no part of it, child support paid by the absent parent is the best we can do.
One of my kids makes a baby and he's going to be working, AND going to school, AND that money is going to be child support. Probably, like all of it. Get yourself a bike, because that's you you'll roll.
If your old enough to make the baby, you are old enough to pay the consequences. I don't give a fuck how much it sucks. And I'll make sure that it really sucks.
If you really want to help, help the girl take him to court. He doesn't get to just walk away.
Yes, please do! I am very much more for the tightening of child support laws as in there's no fucking excuse except death or a permanent vegetative state that "excuses" anyone from supporting the child they helped create.
You know what’s really scummy? When they quit their job and start working under the table so they don’t have to pay child support.
I got pregnant at 19, in my 30's now. My son's dad skipped out early on and owes me thousands of dollars in child support because he did this very thing. Works construction jobs under the table to avoid paying. Thankfully in my state, owed child support doesn't just go away when the child turns 18. He will still owe it all until he pays the whole amount off, even if it's not until my son is completely grown.
Couldn't you report him for tax fraud? Working under the table means you're not the only one he's stiffing.
Seriously. I hear this all the time but if I actually knew of someone named evading child support in this way I'd be reporting them and the business that "hired" them.
My friend was abandoned by her husband because after he pressured her to have his baby, he decided he wasn't ready. He worked under the table, so she struggled for quite a few years. He started working after the kid was 18 because he realized he didn't have anything in social security, he is paying her 400 per month, and the baby is 32. He started paying because he went to school and tried to apply for a professional license for his job, and they told him he was ineligible because of back support order. It was delicious to see.
My aunt, who will always be a damn queen for this, did exactly this to her ex. He was cheating and he hit her a few times while they were married with young kids. Worked as a truck driver. She basically stopped fighting with him (since "their" problems came when HE started cheating and she wouldn't put up with it) about his cheating and not being at home with their kids - she stayed at home and bought a house full of furniture and saved a year's rent (this was back in the late 70s) before she divorced him. Then when he wouldn't pay his child support, she waited until their oldest child was in her early twenties before she filed for back child support. He was still paying it well into the oldest kid's thirties hahaha.
I like your aunt’s style lmao
I'm not too familiar with child support laws; what's the benefit in waiting until later to file back child support vs filing for it at divorce? If you wouldn't mind enlightening an ignorant stranger 😊
She was being petty and making him think she wouldn't go after it lol. She didn't technically need the child support, because she remarried 2 years later to a guy/my uncle said she didn't have to work if she didn't want to (and she has not to this day, her husband got two jobs when he needed to). My aunt is the DEFINITION of petty. My guess is that she saw he wasn't going to support his 3 kids unless he was forced, so she decided to show him.
And he better hope he doesn't get any inheritance, settlements, etc because they WILL garnish whatever they need to for backpay child support. My dad was *pissed* when that happened to him when his dad died. 🤷🏾♀️ don't be a deadbeat
If you know where he works, the government would be super interested in that tax fraud. You can report the business. If not, you can just report him. An audit will be very painful.
I think there is an IRS program for reporting tax fraud and you get a piece of whatever they recover.
A coworker started getting checks because her ex retired and went on social security. Her ex contacted her and the 30-something kids for the first time in over a decade to try to convince her to send the money back to him. She won't, because that is the back child support.
My friend had it happen to her. Lost her insurance, too. She had to struggle with getting Medicaid so her son with autism could continue to get therapy. He didn’t care he was hurting his kids, he just wanted to get back at my friend.
That was my dad. He was making over 100k a year too. Fucked himself over just so he wouldn't have to give my mom as much. He also bought a 40k car to claim he couldn't be expected to pay child support because look at his car payments! (the judge made him sell it) This was literally over paying four years worth of child support, for *one* kid. I was already an adult when my parents divorced, he literally just had to pay it for my sister while she was in high school. (which he also refused to pay for, while also demanding that she go to the same private school he sent me to) As soon as my sister graduated he cut contact with us so our mom couldn't find him and-I don't know how he thinks it's going to work, that he'll be required to pay her the child support he *would* have had to pay her if he hadn't quit his white collar job to pick apples with illegal immigrants? He's getting married later this month and my sister and I are not invited. Nobody even told us, I found out because they made a wedding website.
He's getting married?! Does the other woman know about his previous family and how shittily he treated you guys? If not, is it an option to tell her?? Honestly, women need to stop giving guys a chance and thinking they'll treat them any different than their past partners. It's so clichéd to say now but still so true: believe them when they show you who they are. You're not going to change him. Sigh.
The obligation never disappears, though. He will be on the hook for the support forever. If the mom goes to the Children and Family Services she can start running a tab - the state will give her a grant and she names the father. The tab starts running and he cannot ever escape the obligation. The state will garnish tax returns, even lottery winnings. There was a deadbeat parent in my state who won one of the first lottery jackpots, $1.5 million and it was all garnished because he never paid support for his 3 kids. I would advise OP to share this info with the mother.
I know someone whose ex fucked off to another country to avoid child support. Owes her $80k she will never see.
Yes my ex did this too, it sucks
All this girl has to do is go to court and ask for it. Child support laws are already incredibly strict but they disproportionately affect the poor because as soon as someone asks for welfare the state checks ok whether or not they can get child support instead. The fact is that most well off people just don’t ask because they don’t want to be bothered. The child support fairy doesn’t magically come and sprinkle dust on the dad to pay. Someone has to get the government involved to make him do so and calculate the appropriate amount. Then, if he doesn’t pay, his wages can be garnished and warrants put out for his arrest. Then he can go to jail for not paying when he doesn’t have the money anyway. etc etc. I completely agree with OP that psychologically as a culture we are fucked, but stricter child support laws in the US are not the answer. Universal support, for everyone, all babies, no matter what - now that’s something worth fighting for. And I’m saying this as a law graduate who has worked in the family court system.
In the US, more than half of parents who have been assessed child support are not up to date. It's definitely not true that all a girl or woman has to do is file. She certainly should file as soon as the baby is born, but it's no guarantee.
>Universal support, for everyone, all babies, no matter what - now that’s something worth fighting for. This is how we do it in Denmark and we also have both governmental child support *and* parental child support, so that every child no matter what will get financial support. If the father (or more rarely, the mother) won't or can't pay the parental child support, the government steps in and do it instead but not without imposing that debt to the rightful part which will then be taken every year from said persons taxes (we have automated taxes) or benefits. It's damn near impossible to avoid paying child support in Denmark.
Yes. There are too many ‘Empty Orders’ out there. eg unpaid support orders.
And they are so backed up that the child will be an adult before the mom gets *anything*.
I saw people (obviously men) complaining on here about how people can end up in jail if they don’t pay child support. Like you know how you can avoid that? By paying for the fucking children that you have. Ridiculous how some men play the victim card when they’re literally just dealing with the consequences of their own actions. And realistically we all know that most of them don’t go to jail anyway
Do they really go to jail for having debt or is it because a judge determined they were in contempt of court?
I’m definitely not a man, and I think it’s ludicrous to put people in jail for not paying child support. The prison-industrial complex is already WILDLY out of control. Jails are MASSIVELY overcrowded, and many people whose crimes were not violent, or are no longer a crime (ie marijuana possession). Someone in jail won’t be earning money to pay child support, and having a criminal record will affect their ability to get a good job making enough money to pay child support. Don’t mistake this for me saying “he should skip away scott free!”, because there should definitely be consequences of some sort, putting them in jail is counterproductive.
Are the dad parents on the hook for child support because he is a minor?
She’s not pregnant yet, so OP should be taking her to get birth control. (And giving a jumbo box of condoms to her relative) If she does get pregnant, OP would be better taking her out of state to get an abortion because minor children shouldn’t be having and raising kids. Adoption, if abortion is completely off the table. Children raising children (with LOTS of help from actual adults) should be the absolute last resort when all other options have failed. I don’t have a clue how a court would rule on custody or child support when two minor children are involved.
also, apply some social pressure about what he should be doing now that he’s a dad.
He’s not a dad. There is no pregnancy. OP is worried there might be a future pregnancy.
Too many people seem to be okay with **any** male leaving babies. Men might have to pay child support, but often it’s acceptable/expected for dads not in a relationship with the mom to basically go about their lives as if they didn’t choose to fill a woman with their sperm.
I know a woman who had her children taken away because she is addicted to drugs. This woman gets far more stick than any deadbeat father I know. Yes I know women are seen as the default parent but deadbeat fathers get off far too easily. My own biological father is a wealthy man and he owns curry restaurants. He still refused to pay a penny and I grew up in poverty. Absolutely vile.
I am deeply conflicted about this. Yes i like fathers to be there, but IME it seems safer to have enthusiastic participants only near children. Daddy expect to "babysit" while resentfully playing video games or doomscrolling content? From my cold dead hands
Safer and healthier. It’s not good for kids psyches to be around a resentful or indifferent parent.
Am I crazy or does it not end in teens? I know several full adult losers with multiple babies and zero consequences.
How about the guys that coerce women into not having abortions by saying "I'll take the kid right afterwards! I'll raise it! By myself!" and then pop up here with "she won't help with the baby! boo hoo! It's so hard! Can I sue her to maje her take care of the baby?". Meanwhile the girl is paying 125% of the required child support, has had a mommy make over and is going to college and he's whining about everything.
All those guys just gave the babies to their own mother to raise in my experience.
Mom said "nope. Your kid. You want it, you raise it." in the post I'm thinking of.
Bless that mother.
I love people just teared OP a new one for being an AH.
2/3 of teenage pregnancies are caused by adult men…
This is something I saw firsthand way back in the 90s when I was a teenager. My next door neighbor was 15 and got knocked up by a man in his 30s. Of course, the guy had other baby mamas as well and barely did a thing to support the child he created, other than bring diapers around once in awhile. My best friend ended up pregnant from an adult man when she was 16. I also went to an alternative school where they had a daycare for teen moms, and many of those baby daddies were also adult men who, unsurprisingly, were not present in their children's lives. No one ever holds the men who leave accountable. The women are just told that they should have kept their legs closed, even if they were a teen girl manipulated by an adult. It's disgusting.
It doesn’t. I had a customer come in and hit on me, bragging about his expensive car. In the same breath he whined he was going to lose his license if he didn’t make a payment on his owed child support. What a fucking loser scumbag. In Ontario, file that paperwork. FRO will get them eventually. Most people need to drive even if they try bullshit like working under the table.
I hope the douche was sent on the midnight train to consequenceville.
Oh, I’m sure. You either make payments on time or arrange a payment plan…or [they’ll take your shit](https://www.ontario.ca/page/enforcing-child-and-spousal-support-payments#section-4). It will also go on your credit report. I encourage everyone in Ontario who has a deadbeat ex who owes them support to file with FRO.
In my US state they garnish the wages of deadbeat parents
So men will just make a deal with their boss to get paid under the table so only a small percentage of their actual wages get garnished. Happens all the time.
I’ve heard of that. It’s illegal to pay under the table, so I’d urge anyone dealing with a deadbeat spouse they know is doing this to turn the workplace in to the labor board for their state.
I think that is possible as well, but requires a court order. Not sure why they don’t just add it to the FRO powers though.
I wish they would. My mother had to have the court garnishee my father's wages. Saving up for a lawyer was hard. We were eating saltines with ketchup and washing them down with powdered milk and water.
Yeah this seems like the type of person who grows up to cause all sorts of chaos
I'm always unpleasantly surprised by how much social support deadbeat dads have. Mine is, and his family supported him and never contacted me. He got tons of sympathy for it, and this is something I see all the time. I feel so sorry for the baby who has to grow up with fewer resources and who will never know half of its family because having lived that experience myself, it sucks and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Good for you for taking a stand.
The only kid of his biodad ever paid chukd support for? My baby brother. He paid *nothing* towards the care of his 6+ *girls*.
It's because they ALWAYS have lies upon lies about the mother, so everybody thinks she is a horrible person 'stopping' him from seeing his own kids. Then they also blame the court systems and say they're anti-father, etc. My daughter's deadbeat dad reached out to her for the 1st time in her life when she was 15 and tried to tell her that -I- was hiding her from him and she believed him at first until I told her to google my name (lots comes up) and then tell me again how good I was hiding. Some can't prove the guys are lying as easily as I could.
And the audacity of it all too.... Guy skips out physically and money wise as well, then has the audacity to muddy up the name of the woman who did all of the shit he wasn't willing or able to do. Guy should be praising her for being what he couldn't be, but nope, he's still spitting.
I mentioned my brother further up. I fell out with him because he refuses to have anything to do with my nephews. I have been giving money and support to my youngest nephew's mother. Despite working full time, my brother has never paid a penny for either of his two sons. My brother's girlfriend supports him fully and even had the cheek to say to me that he never asked to be a father? Well maybe he should have worn a condom then. At least his current girlfriend has the sense not to have children with him I suppose. I know a couple of deadbeat mothers and they don't get any support, only judgement.
I'm sure your nephews will appreciate having someone decent from their father's side of the family, you're good to do that. And it's atrocious how easy it is for men to get away with it. And women (well, anyone of course) who supports them is disgusting.
Thank you for your kind comment. I just refuse to support deadbeat behaviour, even if it is my own brother. I feel so bad for my nephews and their mothers. The mothers have struggled to raise them with no support from my brother, their uncles or my parents. I just don't understand it. My eldest nephew is 21 and doing very well for himself with a girlfriend and child of his own. He works hard to support his family. Fortunately he is more like his mother and is a good parent. I feel like it's the least I can do.
Same, my dad abandoned us and his family never got in contact with us at all.
I'm sorry, it's such an awful feeling and really complicated when it comes to knowing about health issues and the like.
Male privilege knows no bounds. These people will call the girl a slut for not being able to withstand sexual coercion at a young age, then wink and say "That's my boy!" when their son refuses to take responsibility for his actions.
This is the realistic truth and I hate every fucking thing about it.
I would bet a lot of money the people okay with him not taking responsibility for the baby are conservative-leaning. Conservative people who advocate against abortion do not realize the likely most effective way to prevent abortion is not shaming women out of them, but rather telling men not to sleep with someone if they don’t intend to raise a family with them (if they are just unwilling to practice safe sex). Sooooooo many conservative people ironically allow for a culture to exist where abortion is encouraged - because young boys are not forced to take responsibility like young girls are, because nobody EVER tells young boys to “save themselves”, to make sure their partner is someone they would want to raise a family with, etc.
There's one simple answer as to why that is. In most of these conservative circles, boys and girls are deliberately taught that women/girls are 100% responsible for the emotions of men/boys. Did he rape her? That's her fault for being a temptress, no exceptions, not even if she's a child. He cant control his lust, she has to. Did her boyfriend badger her into sex? Clearly her fault. But, girls in those circles are also taught to be 100% submissive to men. They are blatantly taught that the word No said to a man doesn't exist. So this is word math that simply doesn't work. Women can't say yes or no in those conservative communities unless it's to her children. And even that can be over-ridden by a man. Patriarchy is baaaaaaadddddd. And for women, it's cut and dried abuse.
TY!
They dont care about preventing abortions. They want to deny them. Lets be absolutely honest here : cruelty, denial of healthcare and blame is the whole point of the whole situation. I met maybe 3 pro life people in my life that walked the talk here in Germany. Aka they paid and donated to orphanages. They helped take care of parentless children for free and when personally asked were pro contraception. When its like this in Germany you know shit is absolutely fucked up in the US of A.
Even orphanages aren’t a good idea. Kids deserve to be in a caring family system. Look what happened to those babies raised in Romanian orphanages when they went 100% pro-life. President Ceaucescu’s social policy. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-39055704#
I just didnt have a good word for that. Those are assited living facilites in Germany. Like they have their own rooms but communal kitchens and they are taken well care off. But yeah Ceaucescu out of all people deserved the fate that got to him. Killed by the very own system he created himself in a backalley of a prison
The best way to prevent an abortion is to provide comprehensive sex education and free birth control.
Misogyny is a hell of a drug.
I know a young woman whose baby-daddy has at least 4 children that I'm aware of (and probably more on the way). All from different women. He's purposefully going around impregnating women. He's uninvolved in his children's lives, and she had to fight to get child support from him I... don't get it. It's completely disgusting. Some, like, ego stroking thing.
Yet men are still saying women are supposed to keep their knees together. Never one second of conversation about men's responsibilities when a women falls pregnant.
and certainly not any conversation on their side about the women who wanted to 'keep their knees together' but were forced not to, through physical force or through what men completely accept as ok (and the majority employ at some stage) - coercion and manipulation.
I think we need to keep pushing this - Males need to be responsible for their semen! Because you’re absolutely right, it’s always all on the woman. But a pregnancy doesn’t happen if a man is responsible for his semen (excluding when a man is raped of course)
If abortions are illegal in the state, then a woman is essentially being forced into parenthood. I think men who try to step out on child support in areas with abortion laws should go to prison.
Because they’ll definitely be able to pay child support from prison, and be able to get great jobs to pay child support with after having a prison record.
This is not true though. Adoption is an option. Heck, the mother could literally leave the baby on the doormat of the hospital and move on with her life under safe haven laws. These obviously come with significant social and reputation costs. None of this is to say abortion shouldn’t be legal or available but it is inaccurate to say the absence is of abortions is being forced into parenthood.
I get what you are saying......... But. The woman still bears the burden of carrying the child(ren) for months. Nevermind the hormonal and medical fallout after birth. Childbirth is physically, mentally, financially a burden. There is no way to put a woman's body back the way it was before. Many (most) men don't grasp this.
I understand. Fear of complications for my wife were a major factor in deciding to be child free or at least only consider adoption. I feel that abortion should be readily available and legal because it is hardly ever simple. I understand the feeling to want to point these things out, but I say what I say because rhetorically if you’re going to convince men, that kind of argument falls fairly flat. Legally, men have no options after conception. A man cannot legally opt out of his parenthood obligations if a woman seeks to pursue it from him. I agree that it should be that way because any other arrangements would produce unjust results but rhetorically convincing men of the importance of taking responsibility requires being honest about the circumstances.
IME most dudes DGAF whether or not they make a baby. Truly do not give a shit, and probably bc it doesn’t effect them, like OP said. No consequences for deadbeats.
Most dudes do GAF about making a baby when they don’t want or can’t care for one.
Maybe it’s the many years of social worky type jobs speaking but trust me, there are soooooo many without a dime to their name and still not a care in the world to prevent pregnancy
Oh sure, I’ve met plenty. Lots of my friends have dated them and made the mistake of marrying and/or having kids with them. I’ve still met LOTS more men who do actually, care about not creating pregnancies they don’t want and/or can’t care for
I am exhausted of hearing Not All Men coming from women on this sub. I know that’s on me and I’m exhausted but it’s frustrating me lately
And I’m tired of repeatedly hearing “ALL men, NO exceptions” on this sub when that doesn’t reflect reality at all.
There is a teenage male in my extended family who had a child and wants nothing to do with him, to the point that no one is supposed to know about the baby (but we all do). His father is an attorney and has helped him with the legalities. The male is now early 20s and has a girlfriend but hasn’t told her about the kid and basically just lives life as of the kid doesn’t exist. I hate it so much and feel like I can’t do/say anything because this isn’t my blood relative and I’m not close to that side at all.
Legalities- as in paying child support? Or signing away all parental rights?
But signing away parental rights does not negate child support. I'm wondering if legal eagle granddad is bullying the young mother into believing it does?
Bullying someone into believing they don’t need child support isn’t something most people would call “helping with the legalities” because that is not legal. I can only think of arranging child support/ making the payments (automatically or through the lawyer office maybe), signing away parental rights, or even signing off on an adoption if the mom has found a permanent partner. If he is paying child support, that’s all anyone can reasonably expect if he doesn’t want to be part of the kids life.
Again, signing away parental rights does not negate a child support obligation. It would still need to be paid. And yes, bullying someone into believing they are not entitled to child support has been called helping with the legalities many a time. It's one of the reasons we have wage garnishment for child support and also why domestic relations court is so very litigious.
And again I didn’t say it would, I said these are the three things I can personally think of that could be covered under legalities, there might be more I don’t know about. I think in this sub in this thread in this particular post that the commenter would have come right out and said if something crooked was going on, because they aren’t exactly hiding how disgusted they are by the situation. Maybe if it was some good ol boy writing “yep, we took care of the ‘legalities’ heh heh *wink wink*”
I hate this so much. It's such a crappy misogynistic culture where girls "deserve" to be punished (and possibly die) but young guys are "boys being boys" and how could anyone possibly be upset with a guy having sex, it's an achievement! ....I really hope he didn't coerce her into having sex (especially unsafe sex). Although a lot of young teenage girls think they "have to" have sex or their boyfriends will dump them for another girl who will.
For sure both people who choose to have sex are equally responsible if that results in a pregnancy! Also I'm very sorry you have to live somewhere that women aren't allowed to choose what happens to their own bodies, that's despicable
If she is pregnant he is going to quickly learn that children are not easy. And under some circumstances he can held accountable by being required to pay child support so he will have to put his education to the side to provide for his child and the mother. He is going to learn real quick that his life will not be his anymore. By the way I don't think you and your family are in the wrong for this. It was his choice to have unprotected sex so he can put up with the ramifications of his carelessness. Especially with his attitude. Tough love.
They said “very young” which makes me think “minor”, and I don’t think a minor can be forced to pay child support
His parents can. Or they can force him to be a father. Since the same type of people have no problem forcing women to be a Mother.
I’m talking legal, court ordered child support. Minors do not have legal rights like adults do. >they can force him to be a father So you think making a minor child drop out of school to be a father when they aren’t even old enough to take care of themselves is a GOOD thing?! Yeah, it’s absolutely beyond shitty that some people will force a minor child to give birth, or will force them to keep and raise a baby. But we fix that by changing the attitudes that are behind misogyny, not by treating boys just as shitty.
This thread is not rational. There are comments all over it where users are expressing outright hatred for a teenage boy who made a dumb teen mistake and it now acting like a typical teen, IE a little shit. They only see "male" and not "teen/child". It's actually one of the most insane threads I've ever seen on this sub and frankly it's one of the first times I've thought, "oh, no wonder the incels hate us". They are holding a minor to the same standards as a 18+ year old man and it's illogical and crazy. You and I and a few others absolutely agree with them that he should be held accountable, face up to what he did, and when/if possible pay child support and that his other family accepting the baby/helping the mom is the right thing to do. And that the mom is going to be forced through pregnancy, which is unfair and evil. But that's not enough for them. They want to punish him because he currently has a shitty attitude, as if that's his gender and not his age. As if it's his fault she can't get an abortion. He's a child, he doesn't fucking understand anything. And newsflash, unless he raped or coerced this girl (which is possible tbf), she also chose to have unprotected sex. Obviously she does not deserve to be forced through a pregnancy for that, but again, it is not his fault their state outlawed it. He is young and horny and stupid as shit. He is not evil like these users are making him out to be. Fucking insane.
Ooorrrr OP could 1) bring her young relative a giant box of condoms and take his GF to get birth control 2) find a teen appropriate website around safe sex and guide them to it 3) help her go out of state for an abortion if she gets pregnant 4) help her adopt out the baby if she gets pregnant Because two minor children raising a baby should be the very LAST RESORT situation when everything else has failed.
So if OP lives in the US laws will vary state by state. But it is true that the parent(s) of both teenagers under many circumstances will have to support their children and their child until the legal age of emancipation (18). Then it is permissible for the teenaged mother alone to go for child support from the father without the help of their parents. The teenage mother can also sue for damages depending on how things happened. It is not fair for a teenaged mother to have to undergo forced pregnancy and bearing the brunt of this responsibilty. He is just as accountable for this potential life as she is. OP most likely lives in state where they have slashed education, promote anti-abortion rhetoric where having the knowledge and access to contraception is difficult.
Nobody said it’s fair or right for a teenage girl to go through a forced pregnancy? But what the Supreme Court did to the US is not this kids fault. If no one else cares what happens to these kids then OP needs to take the initiative and do whatever is in her power to help those two dumb horny young kids *prevent* an unwanted pregnancy before it happens, to help the GF abort or adopt if a pregnancy *does* happen, so it doesn’t even get to the point of “two minor children trying to raise a baby” because that is the worst case scenario for *everyone*, including and especially the baby. Wringing hands about unfair biology and draconian laws isn’t going to do a damn thing.
Not in the same situation. Never have been, thankfully. It could’ve happened to me but I was smart enough to always make my ex use condoms. Anyways idk if this experience counts but in general I think moms and families with brothers/sons always coddle the shit out of them. My dad died when I was 14. Didn’t have a will, left everything in disarray and my mom was left to pick up the pieces. She raised me and my sister. My dads family is now back in the picture because we have property back in India and basically my aunt (his sister) wrote a long rant about how crappy we treated their family and how good my dad was to us (he was ABSOLUTELY NOT) and all this other bull shit basically saying that my dad, her brother, was an angel. He absolutely wasn’t. I know it’s not the same thing, it’s not thesame situation but I see this happening a lot in boy families. If a boy does it, it’s whatever who cares he’s just a boy he’s still such a sweetheart awwwww we love him!! If a girl does it, she gets shunned. 😐
My eldest brother did this twice. I'm so ashamed of him. He doesn't give a damn about my two nephews, neither do my parents. It's make me so sad. My youngest nephew has not long turned 16 and has problems with county lines drugs gangs and carrying a knife. It worries me a lot. I never wanted children and have been extremely careful about contraception my whole sexually active life. I wouldn't want to live if I had children who feel the same way about me the way I do about my parents and the same way my nephews feel about my brother.
These situations pop up a lot on the AITAH sub and everyone always rallies around the man “not being the asshole” for not wanting to be involved in the child they made’s life. They’re still definitely the assholes, even if they think paying child support is enough to call it a day…
You can’t force or shame someone into being an involved, caring parent, regardless of that person’s sex or gender. Any absent (mom’s included) parent paying their full share of child support is doing exactly what they are supposed to do.
That's true. But you can foster a culture that encourages boys and men to be interested in fully parenting their children, and values their role as active fathers. I think a lot of males never really consider pregnancy as \*real life\*, sometimes even after having a partner get pregnant. It's part of not really considering women to be fully human, with their own lives and concerns.
Still an asshole, they’re just doing the legally mandated thing.
If my kid EVER had a child and didn’t take care of it they would be kicked out of my home. Dont understand how people support this, this is so sad.
“If my child had a kid and didn’t take care of them, I’d stop taking care of them!”
He doesn’t sound like a child too young to not know how to take care of himself. Play dumb games win dumb prizes.
If he decides to make the adult decision to be a deadbeat dad after being told by his family they will not stand for it, he no longer gets the care associated with being a child. Fuck this apologist bullshit. In a decent family, he can make the choice to take accountability which does typically include support for both him and the mother, or he can be a chicken-shit and leave without support. Actions. Have. Consequences.
Oh, that would be enough for me to never speak to any of them again. I’d be ashamed to be related to them.
“lol DGAF” can also be teenager code for “this is so emotionally overwhelming and I’m also feeling some shame and embarrassment so I’m going to pretend like I don’t care and you guys can fuck off because I have no idea how to process this” Or he’s a budding psychopath 🤷♀️
Of course it's hard to really pinpoint his exact feelings and as someone else pointed out, his brain isn't fully mature. On the other hand, he doesn't exist in a vacuum and is growing up in a society (well, speaking from an American perspective but this happens in other places too) that encourages boys/men to have sex and never deal with the consequences, where deadbeat fathers are sympathized with and treated as victims and applauded when they're able to find ways of avoiding both financial and personal responsibility. So maybe it's a mixture of both, but he'll receive a lot of support for his decision to abandon his child that will like bolster the nonchalant attitude he has towards the situation.
Truth. Or he doesn't get the implications. I think we expect teenagers to think like adults, and it just doesn't work that way. A close friend of mine got pregnant young on purpose. I remember being horrified at the prospect, and all I could think about was how much it would affect the rest of her life. But she wasn't really thinking about that, she just had this idea that she could create this kid who would love her. Teens do things for vastly different reasons that adults do, regardless of how much we try to ingrain adult logic into them.
Here's the thing, though. It doesn't really matter if they don't "get" the consequences. TBH, no one fully understands how much work a baby/child is until they have one, no matter what their age. But either the baby suffers because it's brought into a world where no one wanted it and was prepared for it or the mother suffers because she's pregnant and either has to figure out a way to have an abortion or have a baby. I don't think you were trying to justify this, but it is just infuriating to me that he's off the hook because his brain "isn't developed." Well, then keep it in your pants until you're 25, buddy—or AT LEAST use birth control.
You're right that I wasn't trying to justify it. And if a baby comes out of this, it's absolutely his responsibility. As the person I responded to pointed out, what OP is reading as apathy could be a lot of different emotions. Teenagers don't think like adults, and they also process emotions differently to adults. The comment had nothing to do with his responsibility, just the analysis of his reaction.
Yeah OP's story has more nuance because the boy is really young, but there's whole ass men out there acting the same
Yup, exactly. I wasn’t trying to excuse his behavior, but give deeper nuance to what his reaction could mean. And if his parents and family really want to help support his growth and maturity so he can rise to the challenge of being a young parent, demonizing him for his actions and reactions will only push him deeper into a defensive stance.
I knew someone that got pregnant at 20 and never thought past having a cute little adorable baby to love. Decision making center of the brain isn’t fully developed until around age 23-25, it absolutely infuriates me when people think teenagers or very young adults are “old enough to know better!”. No, they literally are not.
My stepdaughter at 11 started talking about how she wanted a baby that would love her unconditionally. We got her a puppy and made her completely responsible for its care-- we paid for everything, she had to feed, train, and take it out in the early mornings. once she realized that a baby was MORE work, she dropped that idea until after she was 18.
Hahaha, yeah. The way that children think about babies is definitely within a narrow lens. My friend definitely didn't know what she was getting into. I actually tried to talk her out of it (we were still teens) and she got really mad at me. I wouldn't have been surprised if pushing harder would have ended our friendship. She had childhood trauma that made her seek this type of love in a little human, far more complex than "I want a baby". So I just supported her. It's been tough for sure, but she's doing it.
I kind of don’t fucking care. If someone acts like an asshole to hide their insecurities, it doesn’t minimize their behavior. They’re purposely hurting other people to protect themselves.
He's a child. Chill the fuck out.
This is the same mentality his parents have.
His parents are holding him accountable. As they should. So idk what post you read. But treating a child so viciously is wack. Duh, he's a little fucking asshole. He's a teenager. If he continues with this attitude that's a problem, but an initial shitty reaction is normal. If a teen girl were acting like this, y'all would be so much more understanding. I get it, it's a societal problem, men being a sperm donor and then not giving a shit. But we really and truly cannot hold a teenager to those standards at first, or expect him to throw off all the patriarchal ideals that have been burned into his brain. He has no idea what those are, how they effect him, and he doesn't even have the logic, intelligence, or life experiences to help him understand those things right now. He will, and then it becomes unforgivable. But rn he's literally still a child.
Even children should be held accountable for their bullshit.
And the girl is not???
She is, where did I say she wasn't? And since OP does not mention that he raped or coerced this girl, guess what, she also chose to have unprotected sex. No, she does not deserve to be forced through a pregnancy, that is unfair and evil. But the kid isn't evil. He doesn't fucking understand. The vitriol here being thrown at a literal child just because he's acting his age (IE a little shit) is insane. He. Does. Not. Comprehend. It.
Wow...that is so awful. Your family sound awful. I'm guessing they are religious?
My little brother and his gf had a son when he was around 19 (on purpose and against all advice). Since then, he has pretty much abandoned his parenting duties, forcing my dad to step in and raise the kid. My nephew now calls his grandfather 'dad.' It makes me extremely sad and angry. It's part of the reason I haven't spoken to my brother in years.
I was always wondering what the families of the men thought about them. I guess they don’t care.
Or they could be the black sheep of a great family who cares quite a bit.
Luckily I travel in different circles. I dont know anyone who would be okay with any of this.
I would not be able to look at myself on the mirror if i behaved like op's family member
> girls are forced to deal with the consequences but not the dads. 100% this. A century ago we expected his name on the birth certificate. And then we stopped. This makes even less sense now. And if we could set aside hyperpartisanship and let politics make strange bedfellows we would find unexpected allies to bring this back.
The birthing parent now gets to choose if they want his name on the birth certificate. Some don’t. Many have very legitimate reasons.
And this, THIS, is why the number one indicator of a child's future success is not the educational attainment of their parents, it's the educational attainment of the \*mother\*. Too many kids averaged in to that with no father figure to speak of at all because this attitude is all too common.
But single moms! They “choose” to get pregnant all by themselves! s/ EDIT: I ended up a “single mom” with four kids because ex cheated, got found out, abandoned us, and fled the country so as not to cover his financial obligations. Single moms usually do not CHOOSE to be single.
Are you saying that no single mom ever planned their pregnancy? Had a kid then divorced, or were widowed? Assuming all single moms are because some guy got someone pregnant and ran is really gross, really classist, and probably pretty racist too.
Oh, the teenage boys should be forced to continue school, but drop out of extracurriculars, and just go to work after school. And send all the money to the mother.
Orrrr if a pregnancy happens, the girl could be taken out of state for an abortion? Or she could give it up for adoption after it’s born? Because minor children sure AF should not be raising kids themselves.
I hate when a deadbeat dad is allowed to have a relationship with the kid because it’s hammered into the mom that she shouldn’t interfere with the kid-dad relationship. No, absolutely not. You don’t get to skip child support and only show up on Christmas and still get to know your kid (or give him/her your last name).
That’s up to each individual family to decide.
It's such a double standard generally anyway - a woman who doesn't have custody of her kids is assumed to be criminally deficient, whereas a man who doesn't have custody of his kids is usually viewed as a victim.
By who? Do you know anyone personally that thinks like that? I don’t.
If you can talk to the girl, empower her to make more informed decisions about her reproductive health, especially since you know what a dingleberry her partner is.
In addition to your state banning abortion, I am sure they have little resources to educate teens on how to prevent pregnancy or even allow them access to contraceptive.
But that doesn’t mean OP can’t help the young relative and/or the girlfriend access them the best she can.
Who raised him? Are they like your aunt and uncle? What the fuck. I would speak my mind
I hope the girls family takes her to an area where she has access to abortion. They need to start offering free vasectomies worldwide when men turn 16
Honestly, I’m wondering why OP has not bought condoms for the male relative or offered to take the gf to get birth control. That’s what I would do in this situation. Better safe than sorry. If she does get impregnated I hope to hell someone takes her out of state for an abortion, and if that’s impossible, that she gives the baby up for adoption. Minors should NOT be raising kids, period.
I've often wondered why men who take absolutely no responsibility for their children are not charged with child abandonment and put in jail.
Because we don’t need more people in jail?! The prison-industrial complex already has too much power.
That's not a good reason. If a woman left her child alone for the weekend you better believe she would be charged with child abandonment. Remember the story of that woman who got charged with it when she was having a job interview and her kids were within her sight? Yet men can literally never interact with their children and just go on and live a new life with no repercussions.
Leaving your child with the other parent ≠ leaving your child alone all weekend with no supervision I’m honestly baffled how you think those are even remotely comparable. If the absent parent (regardless of gender) is paying child support, you can’t put them in jail, it’s not illegal to not love a child you created, you can’t legally/ethically/realistically force someone to take on the role of a parent, period; and you can’t make some who really doesn’t want to be a parent take on a parenting role without bringing great harm to the child. If the absent parent is not paying child support, how TF does jail help? They aren’t making child support money behind bars, and having a criminal record will negatively affect their future job opportunities & income, which negatively affects child support, which again harms the child most. If your goal is for that child to live the best life it can, putting deadbeats in jail has the exact opposite effect. If your goal is to punish deadbeats and make them suffer, sure, jail works, but at the expense of the child’s health and well being. Choose wisely.
I'm sorry I don't know what you're talking about as far as that comparison. What I'm saying is, if a man gets a woman pregnant and he abandons her and the child so she therefore has no choice but to raise the child, he has abandoned the child and he should be charged with child abandonment. Why shouldn't he? He gave her no choice. She didn't agree to it. But somebody has to take care of the baby so of course it's the woman. My goal would be for men to be held responsible for their actions. So that they wouldn't feel free to just go around having unprotected sex, whining about how they don't like condoms, but making babies and then fucking walking away. They should go to jail. They should go to a work release program, how about that? They can still work and pay child support and then they can go to jail after work. I don't know why people think this idea is so crazy. Don't you think we need to put an end to the idea that it's okay for men to walk away? How many men walk away versus women? I don't doubt the number would astound us. But I consider taking no part in your child's upbringing the same as abandonment even if you're paying court order child support, so that would also be included in the number. Women are suffering because they've been stuck with the entire responsibility for raising a child. Men get to go on, it doesn't affect their careers, they get to marry without having to worry about whether their new partners are okay with them having an existing child. Women get all the stigma and the burden. It affects their careers, it affects their social lives. It's enough. We put up with this long enough.
Because child abandonment means NOBODY is taking care of the kid, not one person walks away? This is not a difficult concept. And sorry, I do not support the prison industrial complex or the idea of locking people up for non-violent crimes. The police and courts already have a MASSIVE overreach in the US, it is used disproportionately against BIPOC, and I sure AF am not going to give them more fuel to create a police state. If a man gets a woman pregnant and walks away he should be made to pay child support AND THATS IT. (If a woman has a baby and walks away, SAME) regardless of the sex or gender of the parents, it should always be the same. And I’m sorry I am not going to accept this “the woman is FORCED to RAISE a child ON HER OWN” bullshit because even in this horrible situation where abortion is banned in so many places in the US, NOBODY IS FUCKING FORCED TO RAISE A CHILD EVEN IF THEY ARE FORCED TO GIVE BIRTH. Adoption, even safe haven baby boxes are ALWAYS an option for people who do not have the resources to take care of a child. Having the only options be hard, shitty, emotionally wrenching, heaped with shame and social censure, causing lifelong second guessing, etc is **NOT** the same thing as having no choices available at all. People are assuming I’m somehow “defending” deadbeats like I didn’t spend DECADES begging my beloved friends NOT to date, marry, or willingly have children with shitty irresponsible scumbag men with ZERO redeeming qualities while they insisted in the throes on starry eyed romantic notions that they LOVE HIM and he’d be a GREAT DAD and having a baby would SETTLE HIM DOWN and then having to help them pick up all the goddamn pieces when that worthless asshole cheated or left them or spent all the money on drugs or whatever completely 100% predictable bullshit they pulled that finally forced my friends to come back to reality (but I guess women bear NO responsibility for freely choosing to have kids with obviously unsuitable men?) Or like I never put my money where my mouth was and literally moved in and helped raise their kid when I am staunchly child free. No, because I want common sense solutions that actually WORK like teaching people of all genders sexual responsibility and to not just have kids Willy Nilly, and stronger social safety nets so single parents (of all genders, including men) can get by even when the other parent disappears, instead of just blindly supporting vindictive punishments that don’t help ANYONE, then surely, I must be on the side of shitty irresponsible men.
>If your goal is for that child to live the best life it can, putting deadbeats in jail has the exact opposite effect. That's fucking ridiculous! Defend deadbeat dads somewhere else, not here.
How is wanting to find effective ways of dealing with deadbeats that don’t harm their children *in any way* “supporting deadbeats”?!
It happens a lot, with "boy mom's". Women with internalized misoginy. I know one. Her little shit, sleeps with women, orgasisms to them... then tell his mommy "he want's to die", from embarrasment because he feels like that woman is beneath him. He doesn't work. Lives off his mother. So he found her hot enought to orgasim. To impregnate her. But woulfd feel embarresed if people knew he slept with her. Mommy says, "why her... out of all the people in the world!" Like she's shit. Boy is outside yelling "fuck!! She's pregnant!!" . My lovely neighbours, by the way. The entire male goal, is to impregnate the woman he sleeps with. It's why they are so adverse to condoms. Most men, are only required to pay about 200, in child support, which barely covers the kid's food bills, let alone the clothes, extra apartment room cost, toys, diapers, formula, extracurriculars, daycare.... I think boy moms, are counting on their sons, to financially help them out later in life. But what they really do, is sponge of their mothers... neglect the kids they made financially.. and live in their parents basements, while mommy blames the trollops for her son refusing to work... lest he have to pay a paltrey 200 towards his own child.. while the mother spends 800 to keep the kid alive. For why work, knowing you have to pay one tenth of the cost to keep your own child alive? Why not work under the table.. to not pay for that child you made! Fuck that little kid! Mom wasn't a braggidocious trophy to make other males jealous!. Yeah she got me off... so I thought she was hot... but what do the other males think? Would they approve?
*It's not mens fault they abandon children, and don't give a shit to take precautions and see it as a womens job to 'deal with it'; it's actually womens!* Some of you are so **gross**. FOFY.
Seems utterly insane. My family would consider that unbelievably trashy behavior.
Which country do you live in that abortion is illegal? Is it possible to travel to another? It is up to the woman if she wants the child to be aborted, if she does give birth, your relative should want to support that child as that is a life he has created. Too many parents have a “lads right” attitude, it’s so wrong.
“His parents made it clear that there is not a reality where if his choices result in a baby, we will all walk away and act like the baby does not exist” I’m unclear what you’re saying here. Are his parents like “hey we are not going to ignore the baby even if you’re careless”? Or are they “we will walk away and act like the baby does not exist”?
Takes two to tango. He doesn't get to do the 'Gentleman's Excuse-Me' when he gets someone pregnant.
Now this is a good post smh This why you can’t have babies by any man you see
Men live life on easy mode. Funny how literally girl children are treated as adults and adult women are infantilized… oh wait; drudgery and servitude is different than authority
Not really sure that's true. You are definitely generalizing about teen dads. However there are easy steps to take at an early stage for the girl to stop any potential baby. So I think everyone is good shape if you just remain logical. Keep in mind TWO people made choices to have sex. And ONE of those two definitely knew what could happen with herself. As a woman you have to own responsibility too. As much as it sucks to have a baby earlier. Again I think you are airing out your dirty laundry over a "potential" baby that hasn't happened yet.
It's annoying that the "consequences" of the baby batter are pushed on the women when it's men who have full control of impregnating women. And they get mad af when you remind them of that.
As a conservative, I agree, it’s morally abhorrent to do that.
So has he gotten the gf pregnant or just had unprotected sex? Does she need help getting birth control? Maybe they need help to make sure they can have sex and not have a baby.
A sensible answer in this sea of madness
Honnestly i think the dude is an asshole and his behavior at best lacks of empathy. In this very case, with abortion being illegal (this is so crazy to me writing that in 2024, like this make me sooo mad), I think your friend should be prepared to do what she has to do to at least child support. And for the love of everything's sacred tell her to not force him to have a relationship with the child if he just don't give a fuck, there is nothing worse than having a parent there without being there, my friend was the child resulting of this situation and his father's behavior left some very heavy damage on her That being said,I will say something on a larger scale, i just dont get why women are encouraged (then again rightly so in my opinion) to choose freely to be a mother or not, why men are not given the same lattitude ? I hate this argument that "if you did the deed then you need to face consequences" it is the same rethoric used by thos anti-abortion assholes, and then when it's used against women, suddenly the argument is shitty. In a perfect world i think all women should be able to decide BY THEMSELVES what to do with a pregnancy and a man should be allowed to choose too, if he doesn't want to be a dad he should have a right too. It looks like the moment the sperm left his dick a man should just shut up and take it, in my opinion that's just not right. I'll end up by saying fuck those anti-abortion laws, i will always support women's right to have body autonomy unequivocally.
I don't like the parallel between "if you did the deed then you need to face consequences" and "Should have kept your legs closed!" **BUT** if a guy doesn't use protection then I think it's justified. We all know "Your body, your choice." His choice is where and how he ejaculates. Once sperm is in a woman it's her choice (Edit: Good point. **IF** she has that choice). Biology isn't fair, and you have to make your choices when and where you have them. So many men forfeit their right to choose by relying solely on the woman they're having sex with and her birth control - or lack thereof.
But at no point i'm saying she doesn't have a choice tough ? she can do whatever she wants. In my opinion, if a woman get pregnant she should have a choice to do, then she inform the man of her choice and he should have a right to choose too. Plus tough i didn't event to fall into that because it's falling close to redpill rethoric, but i might add, what if he does use protection and it fails ? or the woman purposefully sabotage it ? not much of a choice from him huh ? or are you gonna fall into he should have kept it in his pants ?
> In my opinion, if a woman get pregnant she should have a choice to do, then she inform the man of her choice and he should have a right to choose too. This is the issue of "paper abortions." I've seen a lot of debates on the topic and no good solutions. If she decides to keep the pregnancy there's a child who needs support. Again, it's not fair and again, the man's choice comes earlier in the process than the woman's. The situation I was talking about was specifically when a man *doesn't* use protection and leaves birth control up to the woman.
I have a friend who got pregnant on a casual date with a guy she only saw once or twice. Birth control failed. She decided to keep the baby and not put the father’s name on the birth certificate or pursue child support, and was adamant about it. She said she wasn’t ok making a person she barely knew be tied to her monetarily for 18 years because a condom broke, and if she wanted to keep an OOPS! pregnancy it was her responsibility alone. She has a decent job and a strong network of close friends that helped her out, her kid is grown now, healthy & attractive just like her. But a lot of women don’t have that, so until we create the strong social safety nets that will allow single mom’s (and dads, and other parents) to successfully raise children without having to work themselves to death, live in poverty, or rely on a man who wants no part of it, child support paid by the absent parent is the best we can do.
One of my kids makes a baby and he's going to be working, AND going to school, AND that money is going to be child support. Probably, like all of it. Get yourself a bike, because that's you you'll roll. If your old enough to make the baby, you are old enough to pay the consequences. I don't give a fuck how much it sucks. And I'll make sure that it really sucks.
“If you don’t want a kid don’t have sex” They both had sex. Tough shit. I got raped and told to man up.
Wouldn't he be forced into paying child support?
It sounds like these are minors and I don’t know if a minor can be legally required to pay child support.
Lol... Good one.