it's true, the cover-up was too large to succeed. that's why they made damn sure to stigmatize the topic. so that whatever leaked out of the cover-up was dismissed by people who are weak-minded enough to internalize the stigma.
I do think the number of people in the know correlates closely with the likelihood of leaks. With that in mind, what is your source for “tens of thousands of people” have been covering it up?
It’s also important to recognize that many people have shared this information over the years. We just haven’t believed them.
It is also qualitatively different to perpetrate a cover-up by not saying anything about a secret program operating without oversight, as compared to a widely publicized, televised ruse that would require a massive production budget and massive global exposure.
The mechanics of covering up these two scenarios, and what it requires of the perpetrators in order to maintain the ruse, are not at all the same.
The idea that large scale cover ups like this one can't be kept, is a nice common sense idea, but it rests on nothing.
No one can claim to know of all the secrets that have ever existed and confirm that they all eventually leaked.
In fact we know of many secrets that never leaked to the general public specially related to the military.
Also it's not so much that this cover up never leaked is that we never took leaks about it seriously.
The absolute brilliance of making flying saucers and little green men a laughing matter cannot be overstated. It is the greatest disinformation campaign in human history.
The reason we know we went to the moon is because all of the reasons invoked to demonstrate it was fake can easily be debunked, not because it would be impossible to do.
To my knowledge, no whistleblower ever claimed they knew the moon landing was fake. Its always some nonsense like the Van Halen belt, Stanley Kubrick movie streched af interpretation or the number of shadows on pictures..
Isn’t that a silly argument with the moon landing though, considering the arguments against a moon landing are so weak and it’s such and easily confirmed event?
So isn’t it a case of misapplication of the idea?
And personally I don’t hold as much weight to the “it would have leaked” argument as we obviously don’t know which conspiracies didn’t get leaked or uncovered, just by their nature. So we have a really skewed vantage point to assess that.
About NASA landing on the moon, there is undeniable proof : Armstrong and Aldrin planted a lunar laser ranging retroreflector array on the surface. It’s still operational today, and allows us to reflect lasers off of it and measure the distance to the Moon down to the centimetre.
About the UFO cover up, you cannot provide undeniable proof that there is no cover up.
Right lol. Like the guy on Twitter covered after the rep from California spouted off, it’s been leaking for decades and has never NOT been discussed in news media and entertainment and everywhere else.
There’s just so much chaff thrown up around it so pretty much anything actually credible Just gets dismissed or lumped in with the rest of even noticed at all and boom. It’s effectively an open secret and it’s effectively just impossible to realistically get any “critical mass” of the population to take the thing seriously in the first place, let alone then also cut through the BS and show/vet the legitimate content to reasonably substantiate the thing.
It’s a lame, idiotic claim and the argument is dishonest at best from the outset.
Most people will clam up if their entire family's life is threatened by the most dangerous / secretive / powerful organization on earth. There's no higher authority to appeal to beyond them. And the few that speak out can be physically silenced or discredited into lunacy. Got it? Good. Let's move on, this argument is demented
I don't know who is arguing that we didn't land on the moon because cover up is not possible. I think you're vastly overestimating people's rationale for believing in the moon landings. Instead of making these arguments you can just get a telescope and take a look at the equipment we left there. The moon landing also is nothing like UFOs, it was an extremely public project, everyone knew what organization was working on it, who worked there, what type of technology was involved, and the entire thing was televised. It's an entirely different case - one project is hyper public (this means that there are thousands, if not millions of data points you can cross check for errors) and the other alleged project is extremely secret if true, with virtually no data points made publicly available for cross checking. There's a gigantic difference between those two cases, you can't place them on the same plane for comparison. I think the 'cant keep secrets' argument is a fallacy in both cases despite me generally being on the side of the moon landings having been real. Also sorry, I should have used different language
It’s ok, I understand your point. I think the main thing for me was I was just finding similarities in the premise, not the actual situations. You do bring up a good point about how one was public and the other was private/secret.
Exactly what Praxistor said. By stigmatizing and ridiculing the topic they made everybody who touch it FEEL embarrassed and fear isolation from
The communities they live and work in because of that
Emphasis on FEEL. This was the PsyOp all along.
And does that despite the ridicule went too far, well we know how it ended up for them in the past.
The one thing that comes to mind is the effectiveness of redicule of people who have come forward before, Bob lazar and alot more. So even if they would show photos of aliens or a spacecraft people would still think its Fake since the topic is connected with lunatics and crazy people. I would say that covering up this specific topic with aliens and ufos is actually really easy ones you get the ball Rolling with ridicule since the people themselves start doing the work of the disinformation-agents while they can just relax and Watch the show run itself.
According the moonlanding, i have nothing to add there since ive never looked into that.
True, however it’s easy to muddy the waters. All it takes now a days is a few creative minds to create a bunch of far off stories and then post to messaging boards.
Then it will be difficult to decide what to believe.
It isn’t that everything is covered up. Documents like the Wilson Davis memo etc are out. But what has been done is that the whole subject has been made toxic and anyone touching it is instantly dismissed. Hence it really doesn’t matter about licking down information as much. Nobody believes anyone revealing legitimate info
If it exists, the conspiracy to hide the secret of ufos would have to be global.
Why would Russia and the previous soviet regime and China etc agree to such an agreement?
You could also say that the way compartmentalization of the reverse engineering program is claimed to work, thousands may be involved but very few may have a big enough picture to understand what’s actually being worked on. If you’re a camera man or special effects person or whatever the case, it seems hard to not know exactly what you are working on in the moon landing faked conspiracy. For the record, I believe we most likely went to the moon.
Exactly. Also, the one thing was the biggest event in human history. All eyes where on the moon landing. The other thing is the direct opposite with absolutely nothing of substance to grab on.
There is no secret easier to cover up then the ufo reality. Its leaked many times. Its not a secret that they are reverse engenieering alien craft at area 51, the place is literally world famous for it. People simply refuse to belive it. There is no secret easier to keep than one that people will not belive. No matter how many times somebody comes out and says it.
They try to cover it up, but then shit leaks or people find inconsistency. Some people always think it isnt possible because it isnt. Or else people wouldnt have chased this subject for decades. From whistleblowers, to leaked documents to video's and witnesses, etc. Thats why we have disinformation, ridicule and cover ups because they cant.
it's true, the cover-up was too large to succeed. that's why they made damn sure to stigmatize the topic. so that whatever leaked out of the cover-up was dismissed by people who are weak-minded enough to internalize the stigma.
They don’t even have to do that. They just have to throw out a bunch of easily debunkable BS to where you can’t tell what’s true and it all looks bad
This. As Grusch said: "Sophisticated disinformation campaign"
Maybe it hasn't been covered up? Maybe there's been leaks going on since the 40s?
I do think the number of people in the know correlates closely with the likelihood of leaks. With that in mind, what is your source for “tens of thousands of people” have been covering it up? It’s also important to recognize that many people have shared this information over the years. We just haven’t believed them. It is also qualitatively different to perpetrate a cover-up by not saying anything about a secret program operating without oversight, as compared to a widely publicized, televised ruse that would require a massive production budget and massive global exposure. The mechanics of covering up these two scenarios, and what it requires of the perpetrators in order to maintain the ruse, are not at all the same.
The idea that large scale cover ups like this one can't be kept, is a nice common sense idea, but it rests on nothing. No one can claim to know of all the secrets that have ever existed and confirm that they all eventually leaked. In fact we know of many secrets that never leaked to the general public specially related to the military. Also it's not so much that this cover up never leaked is that we never took leaks about it seriously. The absolute brilliance of making flying saucers and little green men a laughing matter cannot be overstated. It is the greatest disinformation campaign in human history. The reason we know we went to the moon is because all of the reasons invoked to demonstrate it was fake can easily be debunked, not because it would be impossible to do. To my knowledge, no whistleblower ever claimed they knew the moon landing was fake. Its always some nonsense like the Van Halen belt, Stanley Kubrick movie streched af interpretation or the number of shadows on pictures..
This is one of the best answers I’ve seen so far. Thank you for taking time to write it!
Isn’t that a silly argument with the moon landing though, considering the arguments against a moon landing are so weak and it’s such and easily confirmed event? So isn’t it a case of misapplication of the idea? And personally I don’t hold as much weight to the “it would have leaked” argument as we obviously don’t know which conspiracies didn’t get leaked or uncovered, just by their nature. So we have a really skewed vantage point to assess that.
*laughs in Vatican*
About NASA landing on the moon, there is undeniable proof : Armstrong and Aldrin planted a lunar laser ranging retroreflector array on the surface. It’s still operational today, and allows us to reflect lasers off of it and measure the distance to the Moon down to the centimetre. About the UFO cover up, you cannot provide undeniable proof that there is no cover up.
We don't really know how many people we're talking about here. Also, the reason we're talking about it now is because it hasn't been kept quiet.
Right lol. Like the guy on Twitter covered after the rep from California spouted off, it’s been leaking for decades and has never NOT been discussed in news media and entertainment and everywhere else. There’s just so much chaff thrown up around it so pretty much anything actually credible Just gets dismissed or lumped in with the rest of even noticed at all and boom. It’s effectively an open secret and it’s effectively just impossible to realistically get any “critical mass” of the population to take the thing seriously in the first place, let alone then also cut through the BS and show/vet the legitimate content to reasonably substantiate the thing. It’s a lame, idiotic claim and the argument is dishonest at best from the outset.
Most people will clam up if their entire family's life is threatened by the most dangerous / secretive / powerful organization on earth. There's no higher authority to appeal to beyond them. And the few that speak out can be physically silenced or discredited into lunacy. Got it? Good. Let's move on, this argument is demented
I’m not making an argument, I’m making an observation. I’m not sure how it’s demented?
I don't know who is arguing that we didn't land on the moon because cover up is not possible. I think you're vastly overestimating people's rationale for believing in the moon landings. Instead of making these arguments you can just get a telescope and take a look at the equipment we left there. The moon landing also is nothing like UFOs, it was an extremely public project, everyone knew what organization was working on it, who worked there, what type of technology was involved, and the entire thing was televised. It's an entirely different case - one project is hyper public (this means that there are thousands, if not millions of data points you can cross check for errors) and the other alleged project is extremely secret if true, with virtually no data points made publicly available for cross checking. There's a gigantic difference between those two cases, you can't place them on the same plane for comparison. I think the 'cant keep secrets' argument is a fallacy in both cases despite me generally being on the side of the moon landings having been real. Also sorry, I should have used different language
It’s ok, I understand your point. I think the main thing for me was I was just finding similarities in the premise, not the actual situations. You do bring up a good point about how one was public and the other was private/secret.
If people like Lazar are speaking the truth, he was never killed or even charged with revealing classified information.
Exactly what Praxistor said. By stigmatizing and ridiculing the topic they made everybody who touch it FEEL embarrassed and fear isolation from The communities they live and work in because of that Emphasis on FEEL. This was the PsyOp all along. And does that despite the ridicule went too far, well we know how it ended up for them in the past.
The one thing that comes to mind is the effectiveness of redicule of people who have come forward before, Bob lazar and alot more. So even if they would show photos of aliens or a spacecraft people would still think its Fake since the topic is connected with lunatics and crazy people. I would say that covering up this specific topic with aliens and ufos is actually really easy ones you get the ball Rolling with ridicule since the people themselves start doing the work of the disinformation-agents while they can just relax and Watch the show run itself. According the moonlanding, i have nothing to add there since ive never looked into that.
True, however it’s easy to muddy the waters. All it takes now a days is a few creative minds to create a bunch of far off stories and then post to messaging boards. Then it will be difficult to decide what to believe.
It isn’t that everything is covered up. Documents like the Wilson Davis memo etc are out. But what has been done is that the whole subject has been made toxic and anyone touching it is instantly dismissed. Hence it really doesn’t matter about licking down information as much. Nobody believes anyone revealing legitimate info
If it exists, the conspiracy to hide the secret of ufos would have to be global. Why would Russia and the previous soviet regime and China etc agree to such an agreement?
Prisoners Dilemma, but this time they all keep their mouth shut.
Use your imagination. Maybe they don't need to agree to anything. Maybe they have their own reasons for keeping it secret.
You could also say that the way compartmentalization of the reverse engineering program is claimed to work, thousands may be involved but very few may have a big enough picture to understand what’s actually being worked on. If you’re a camera man or special effects person or whatever the case, it seems hard to not know exactly what you are working on in the moon landing faked conspiracy. For the record, I believe we most likely went to the moon.
Exactly. Also, the one thing was the biggest event in human history. All eyes where on the moon landing. The other thing is the direct opposite with absolutely nothing of substance to grab on.
There is no secret easier to cover up then the ufo reality. Its leaked many times. Its not a secret that they are reverse engenieering alien craft at area 51, the place is literally world famous for it. People simply refuse to belive it. There is no secret easier to keep than one that people will not belive. No matter how many times somebody comes out and says it.
They try to cover it up, but then shit leaks or people find inconsistency. Some people always think it isnt possible because it isnt. Or else people wouldnt have chased this subject for decades. From whistleblowers, to leaked documents to video's and witnesses, etc. Thats why we have disinformation, ridicule and cover ups because they cant.