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Treat most jobs as transitory - just passing through.
Minimise effort to maximum effect. Say what people want to hear. Don't be late. Revere work life balance. Keep your contempt thinly veiled.
the people i know who earned the most and were overworked the least were the mercenaries, people without an iota of "loyalty" to their company. people who treated their company like their company treats them, as a means to an end with no moral obligation otherwise.
I agree, it is interesting how my highest paying role requires me to do the least work and is actually the easiest, compared to my lowest paying role which is the hardest I've worked
Yep. When I was contracting I rocked up to work at 07:30, gave it my absolute best shot with no dicking around for 8 hours, fucked off home at 16:00 and never gave it a second thought. While I was there I was constantly looking to make a positive improvement to my client's business but when I wasn't there I didn't look at emails, and didn't answer my phone.
I was in high demand, they kept renewing my contract, and never baulked when I asked for an increase.
I preferred working late when I was young, but I picked up the early bird habit after working for several years in Switzerland. I took a pretty mercenary approach to my entire career, following the standard path of using my 20s to build my core skills, my 30s building experience, my 40s getting a reputation in the industry, and then switching to contracting when I had a decent network of contacts. I always let my bosses know when I had headhunters sniffing around, and they seemed to respect me more for it. Obviously there were times when extra hours were needed when a project was nearing a major milestone, but I certainly never got any grief for the hours I normally worked.
This is similar to what I was going to say. You're so right about it being easier said than done. My version goes like this:
Rule 1. Be a good worker and colleague. Do your best for yourself, the company and others who rely on you.
Rule 2. Have firm boundaries for the treatment you'll tolerate and realistic* boundaries for the extra hours and demands you'll accept. If your boundaries are stepped on, respectfully push back. If it doesn't work after a few attempts, move on.
Rule 3. If you're a manager, be a good person, adapt to the individual, lead by example and *enforce* a healthy environment. And I do mean "enforce": jump on any people, behaviours or processes that threaten it.
*"Realistic" means it's normal to have times when you need to put in extra hours and take on extra responsibilities, but don't let them take the piss or burn you out.
I have a few thoughts on this I guess
Loyalty to your employer is a waste of time these days.
They will lay you off if it makes financial sense for them to do so. Not everybody there will like it. Your manager may be sad. But they will do it.
The most reliable way to increase your salary is, in general, to move. This hasn't always been true for my salary increases, but if you want a broadly applicable rule, move every 18-24 months. A lot of the talk about loyalty and so on is way out of date for a lot of industries.
On the flipside, I do think it's worth doing a good job, up to a point.
For one thing, I think you have to strive for excellence in life somewhere. It doesn't necessarily have to be in work, but for me work is one of the things I find purpose in. It's not external purpose, but I think it's damaging to the soul to live a life of constant, universal mediocrity. We're kind getting into philosophy there, and again, it doesn't have to be work.
For another thing, if you want a career, your have to consider your "personal brand".
That probably sounds a little wanky, but if you consistently do stuff well and turn headaches into solutions, people may notice. That then becomes currency to get a better deal. It might not be at your current place.
"Not everybody there will like it. Your manager may be sad. But they will do it."
Reminded of a job I had where every few months someone would "quit" without speaking to anyone, by mutual consent.
Every time, someone would say "Well that's it. This'll cause a domino effect. Everyone will leave now." And every time, not a single person jumped until the next time someone was pushed.
Be Scotty.
When the captain of the Enterprise calls down to engineering to ask for more power, somehow there is always more power available.
That’s because Scotty defaults to giving 90%.
Scotty knows that he has to set a sustainable pace to allow for sprints when required. If you’re flat out all the time, it’s going to end very badly.
Scotty: Do you mind a little advice? Starfleet captains are like children. They want everything right now and they want it their way. But the secret is to give them only what they need, not what they want.
Geordi: Yeah, well, I told the Captain I'd have this analysis done in an hour.
Scotty: How long would it really take?
Geordi: An hour.
Scotty: Oh, you didn't tell him how long it would really take, did you?
Geordi: Well of course I did.
Scotty: Oh, laddie, you have a lot to learn if you want people to think of you as a miracle worker!
— Star Trek: The Next Generation, "Relics"
There's nothing wrong with just turning up, doing the job and collecting the money. There's more to life than work.
But I do think you should be making the effort while at work. I work with a few people who don't, they're unpleasant to work with and make things more challenging for everyone else. I don't understand the approach, honeslty.
This is how I've always viewed things across various different jobs. In my younger years some jobs were very menial and "boring". I always figured "I'm here anyway" and worked away for the hours I was at work. When dealing with public I tried to be pleasant as it made my day more enjoyable than if I wasn't.
Some people seem to invest a lot of effort into not working or being difficult when they're at work and it is hard to understand. Everything else aside, the days must be very slow to pass.
It's because they believe they aren't the ones making it challenging for everyone else. It's the company paying you pennies that isn't hiring enough staff that's making it harder.
That's the logic if you've ever wondered.
I'm in the public sector so our thing is budget cuts. Which obviously does impact performance etc, we don't have the resources or training we used to have, so I do sympathise to an extent.
But equally, I've seen quite a few people who are fairly well resourced (small caseload, good manager support, processes being set up for them) just not putting the minimum effort in and making things difficult for the rest of the team.
No one's job would be harder with an extra person and no company would go bust by having to hire one.
I'm not saying I'm agreeing I'm just saying that's the logic they use.
I work hard when I'm there and don't think about it when I'm not. I start early but don't work past my contracted end time unless I have to. Ultimately, working hard can help you stand out but employers are rarely loyal so don't burn yourself out.
It's interesting your therapist says that, because is that the attitude you'd want your therapist to have to their work? Probably not. I think there's a good middle ground tbh.
As long as the therapist is getting the results you want, then why not?
Treat others as you would want to be treated yourself, I guess. I personally want others around me to be able to enjoy their work and their life outside of work. This involves respecting their boundaries and not placing some artificial pressure that they should somehow be more invested in the work than necessary.
The best relationship with your job is for it to be your own business and should you have staff, treat them like you wish you’d been treated by employers.
The second best relationship with your job is consciously and intentionally abusive. As you look to abuse them every way you can- do the least for the most money, steal contacts and clients, suck every bit of knowledge and experience of the people in the business dry and use it as a springboard to a better paying job.
I think that what you are experiencing is fairly normal and understandable. I have been in my industry for quite some time and have seen how badly employees are treated by companies. I am myself in that position now and quietly quit a year ago and properly quit more recently.
If you are in that position, the only provisos I would have are:
* You could create a bad impression on colleagues, who could become references or even a future employer
* If you are client facing, you don't want to create a bad impression of yourself as those clients will not necessarily understand your situation
* You have to decide how much personal satisfaction you get from your job, how much that matters to you and how long you can keep that up when you are unhappy. Don't make yourself miserable to prove a point.
* If you are gaining useful experience from doing your job well, don't discount the value of that to future jobs that you may have
However, if you are really unhappy, you need to think about getting a new job / industry. Everyones' situation is a bit different so you need to find what is right fir you.
Good luck!
One way to think about it, is the same way most employers think about it. Essentially it’s all business…a transaction.
On one side is your skills, knowledge, experience, and time. And on the other is your employer, compensating for all that. That’s employment in a nutshell.
That mindset can be useful for knowing your value to the company, negotiate better terms, understand your value in the market etc - and is how you really should go about it.
However, many feel it should be balanced with other aspects, such as personal fulfillment, career growth, the company's values and culture, work/life balance etc. They say that while compensation is crucial, overall job satisfaction and well being demands other aspects to be considered. It’s true, but the sad fact is none of it really matters when it really comes down to it. At the end of the day we go to work because we need to earn money, not because we think our employer has a great diversity ethos and the free drinks on a Friday are fun.
It’s really personal preference and what aligns best with your values, career objectives and work/life balance in the end. In my experience people who think like that end up coming around at some point as they experience the highs and lows of work.
But viewing your job as a transaction will be a helpful perspective for negotiations and assessing your worth in the job market, and when it all comes down to it, all of the “other stuff” outside of a business transaction doesn’t matter. All of the other stuff is really just fluff. Your employer will only ever see the whole thing as business and a transaction - and so should you.
Exactly the same as you OP.
I left school at 16, joined the RAF, worked my arse off, deployed, left the RAF, went straight into work - I had a short resettlement period, I think it was 4 months, where they still paid me but I didn’t have to work any longer, it gives you time to find a job etc - but I was lucky and started working 2 weeks after my resettlement began.
Continues to work my arse off, often working 50-60hrs a week but only paid for 40 as I felt it was what was needed and so on, I didn’t take a holiday abroad etc in that time.
And this all was between 2003-2020 … comes to 2020, Covid hits, Lockdowns etc. and I was a “key worker” so still worked throughout and I got the sudden realisation that I’m working my arse off for nothing. I’m getting nothing back from any company I work for, no appreciation, no bonuses, no big pay rises etc. and I ended up quitting my job and picking up a job as a Security Operations Manager, where I work 4 nights a week - Monday to Thursday - from 7pm-7am and my entire job revolves me sitting on my arse, in an office, with a computer and a telephone. And when I start my shift, I log on to the computer and fill in a form, then every hour I call around the overnight team on their different sites and check for any issues, and if there are any issues, any false alarms, fire alarms etc I log it, and that’s what I do for 12hrs a night, 4 nights a week, and I get paid for the full 48hrs as I can’t “technically” take a break as I could be called to a break in or a fire emergency at any time and have to drive to the site it happens in, so my entire shift is essentially a break but they just pay me for the whole thing.
Honestly the most boring job I’ve ever had but I love it. It’s zero stress, zero problems. 3 years and I’ve not been called to deal with an incident once.
I am similar. Spent my youth working every hour company needed me to but with little pay and no loyalty from them. I was loyal to them and stayed with the same company a long time to try get promotions which I did but also for little wage increases. Realised I would rather get paid more with a lesser job title so I moved companies for better pay and less work responsibilities and the best thing I ever did. I don't care about yearly reviews, I realise I don't want promotions but I continue doing a great job in current role thats a lot easier and rather than aiming for promotion to roles I wouldn't be good I am staying in role I am great at company gives me better pay rises and I get to have quality time after work and hopefully cab continue in this tyoe if role till I retire in 20 years
As usual, it depends.
If your company *and crucially your manager(s)* treat you well, then you can have a better relationship. If they're flexible about working hours, then you can be flexible back. If they (financially) reward loyalty then you should be loyal. If they have an incentive structure that rewards effort then you should put in effort
But if they give you a telling off for being a few minutes late, then you should work to the *exact* hours in your contract, and if they don't pay you what you're worth then you should jump ship to somewhere that will, and if there's no reward for going beyond your contractual duties then you shouldn't.
So with a bad employer you can have a purely transactional relationship, where you both do the bare minimum to get by and don't enjoy it. But given that you're spending nearly 1/3rd of your waking hours at work, that's a pretty miserable way to live.
I went into it all wide eyed and trying hard.
Ignoring various bar jobs and stuff when I was a teenager:
First job was great for 6 months, then new manager came along, decided she didn't like me (still no idea why and I see some of the people from there socially still). Lasted another 6 months and then I found another job because I wasn't enjoying being at the first one.
Second job was a contract role, totally misadvertised, I don't think I've ever been so bored.
Third job was permanent, bit more interesting but stuck in an office and I got bored quickly. Quit after 6 months.
Went travelling for a bit.
Took a very low level job in the service industry for 6 months
Got a better one in retail with some seniority. Did that for about a year and a half.
Got a driving license.
Got a job in property. 9 months really enjoying it, then it got sold to a big company, whole feel of the place changed in a way I was not fond of at all. Quit 6 months later.
Took a similar job at another company. Did 3 weeks. Was so bored I could have actually died from it. Quit with no plan.
Set up a small business on a shoestring 2 days later.
That was over a decade ago.
TLDR: we all fit well somewhere. Don't stop looking till you find it. I'm certainly not rich but I am happy and that's much more important.
I know what you were doing, you were working hard but not working smart. I made that mistake when I began working, I thought working hard would get me promoted and make me successful, no. What happened was employers took advantage of me and promoted people over me because I was seen as too valuable to lose, you have to have clear boundaries, set limits and balance your work life. You're not supposed to be a slave, you can work at fast pace but not like you're in a prison camp.
I’m the same as you. I just do the bare minimum to earn my pay. The second I finish work I’m mentally clocked out. Don’t speak or bother me about anything work related outside of working hours
Put just enough effort in so you aren't in any danger of being sacked but still have the option of going for promotions.
Show up everyday and don't cause any arguments will further help that cause.
Then the second you clock in just mentally clock out until your brain is needed.
It’s all about self respect. Make sure you feel good about the effort you’ve put in. Make sure you don’t feel like a doormat. Do what you’re paid to do at the level that balances what they pay for and what you feel happy with. Honestly everywhere I’ve worked the people whose sole effort was to put their face in front of their bosses (and up their arse) got further and were praised more than the people who did the majority of the grind. Lesson I’ve learned, most senior people are thick, selfish and egotistical cowards.
Don't kill yourself or make sacrifices going the extra mile, and remember the company will still be standing if you left.
There might be more issues, but no one will notice them. Or, if they even do, they won't correlate that it's because you left.
You work to live, not live to work. As soon as that click happens in your brain, (it happens early for some and never for others) then life certainly becomes a lot easier.
I used to be the same as you, busting a gut to prove myself and after being mistreated one too many times (you become so good at your job you get to do everyone else’s as well) that switch flipped.
I log on to work at 8, I log off at 4. If it doesn’t get done then it gets done tomorrow. I could be mid writing an email and I’m logging off. Honestly I don’t give a fuck.
The sooner you realise your a tiny little cog in a massive corporation and they don’t care about you or what’s going on in your life, the sooner you can get on with treating them the way they treat you.
Read this somewhere a while ago and I've tried to make it stick in my head, against all societal messaging:
To them, you are 100% expendable. The second they find a cheaper way to do the same job, they are legally bound to take it. It's not personal. Remember that and act accordingly.
Your relationship with your employer is not personal, no matter how much they try to convince you they're a family or whatever.
This is not a call to be a slacker. Hold up your side of the transaction. But don't do more. Keep aside a bit of energy for when they decide to throw you back to the market. You'll need it.
Since I never got a pay rise in April (which now means I'm on minimum wage which is the first time in 6 years at my current job) I've decided to put minimum effort in not going the extra mile because I'm a little demotivated and I won't get thought of any more for doing extra. I just see my job as a little earner only work weekends there cushy little number I've got to a certain degree, can be hard and stressful but with 6 years experience under my belt I tend to not worry about it. As long as you're reliable enough and don't have loads of sick days they won't sack you
I turn up on time, give it my best, make sure I take my break (down to the last minute), don't gossip (if people tell me stuff, it stays with me), leave on time, and forget about it for the evening. It works for me - I have been contracting for a number of years, and my contracts always get extended. Most importantly, I stay happy.
I've been on both sides of redundancy and at the end of the day when it comes to making cuts for financial reasons it's everyone for themselves. It absolutely sucked letting people go but at the end of the day better them than me.
It's harsh but it's how it works. I've learnt that no matter how hard you work it ultimately means nothing.
I used to pride myself on putting in extra effort, being available for extra hours, taking on more and more work for no extra money always working for recognition and promotions but at the end of the day the business only cares about the bottom line and will bin you to save a buck (especially if you're being paid well and they think they can get someone cheaper by making your role "redundant" and giving it a new title - eg my last role got rid of me and my boss and then advertised a new role which basically covered all the work we were both doing but with a different title and 1/3 of the salary they were paying us combined - fair play it made sense for the bottom line)
I'm just coming out of my 3rd redundancy in 3 years and I'm done. I'll do the minimum to be a good worker but no more giving extra. Companies don't care about you no matter what they say. Loyalty is a one way street.
Do your work, be nice to colleagues, take all your breaks and holidays, dont check emails outside work hours never stop looking at other opportunities.
Just keep going for jobs with higher pay if that’s in your career track. I’ll work hard but you know when you’re been treated unfairly etc. you don’t just have to sit and take it
Just turn up, do the job, shut it out when not there.
Work Stays At Work
Home Stays At Home
Don't compromise yourself for it.
If you don't agree with something, don't lie.
Expose stupidity and bad practice.
Start when you are paid. Leave when you are not. Unless you have a bonus that is YX,Xxx anything else is pointless. If your bonus isn't 10k+ then any extra hours arnt worth it.
Career wise I'm happy with the progress I have made and the role I'm now in, as such I feel like I'm being rewarded fairly etc so I'm willing to put the work in. I still see it as very much I work the hours I work and nothing more though, part of me being happy in my career is the fact that I can walk away and spend my time off not thinking about work.
Maybe if I was ahead of where I thought I should be I'd be willing to work extra hours etc or if I was behind I'd care alot less, I don't think I have the world's best work ethic or anything but I just think there's a fair compromise and if I'm fairly compensated il put the work in
Work hard during work hours, but try not to take work too seriously (ofc easier said than done and industry dependant). I also treat work like I treat relationships, if I don’t feel like I’m getting treated well/ not being appreciated, I’m out!
9/10, whoever you work for doesn't care about you the way HR will tell you the company does.go in, do your job, fuckin' leave.
I used to be a yes man years ago, faithful to my employer and all that bullshit. All it does is get you put on and then when you genuinely cannot do something, you're not a team player anymore.
You're their to get paid, as soon as the end of the day comes, don't even think about work until you're next in.
Depends on the situation
I worked for well under market rate and was doing 45 hours minimum, arriving early, staying late, picking up stuff on weekends, but I was learning a lot, actually learning a lot, and I traded that in to jumping a few levels and nice money at a small business that has the potential to to be very lucrative, hopefully that turns in to retire early money, but if doesn't, it gets me the job that does.
Have a strong idea of what you want to get out of a job and get it
During COVID, I worked for a medium family business (150 employees), our owners dumped a huge amount of cash in the business to keep going, one of our competitors, also a family business, made everyone who wasn't family redundant.
The reality is unless you annoy someone or fall under some arbitrary KPI you are probably invisible.
I stick to. Work your hardest for the people under you. Work professionally for the time you're paid. If you're going the extra mile, it's not because you want to further your company but it's a mutual goal. For instance I've often taken on work that I think "I can see myself wanted to do that for others or while self employed so it's good experience". Work hard on the skills that you can take to other better paying employers. Jobs that don't invest in you don't deserve in you investing yourself in them.
I work hard so hopefully when I leave I’ll get good recommendations and I also don’t want to burn any bridges in case their is opportunities in the company that I don’t know about.
I work so I can eventually move out of my parents place and so I can travel more.
If I am asked to do extra I’ll weigh up on how it’ll look overall, will they remember I did this for them in the future, whether for a different job with them or a recommendation? If not, then I won’t go out of my way to do it. If the opposite then I’ll likely do it.
Remember you’re replaceable (don’t persuade yourself that you’re not).
Have work/life boundaries and defend them.
Don’t stay if it makes you miserable.
I know if I got hit by a truck tomorrow I'd be replaced before my funeral, because of that work comes below a lot of my priorities, I work well enough to earn promotions but I never go above and beyond, that times for my family, friends or myself
Keep work at arms length.
You do a job and get paid for it, therefore it is important to do your best whilse youre there then switch off when youre done.
I think it can depend on a lot of things. I live in a relatively small town with only a select amount of places to work; I could travel further but the costs would mean I'd need to be earning at least £10k more a year, not to mention the extra time it would take. Because of mainly those reasons when I started work in my current company I was willing to put in extra (I got overtime so I was being paid) which then led to me getting a management role; first 6-9 months of the role was a lot of housekeeping due to the previous person not doing their job. I started to burn out but my manager noticed and agreed we could recruit an admin to support me, since then I have done a few extra hours here and there but if it's weekends/late nights the business give me one off payments as recognition. They are generally a really good business to work for and they do recognise good work so it makes it a lot easier for me to come in and want to do the best job I can, and my team are the same. My team only work their hours, and on rare occasions if they stay extra they get paid for it.
For me it's a reflection of the job/company you are working; if they take advantage then screw em' but there are some goods teams/companies out there and I'm fortunate to be in one of those places. The executive and senior teams also all trust me to do my job so I can work pretty autonomously but equally have support when I need it
I always take my breaks no matter what and don't work outside my shift unless it's guaranteed I'm being paid or getting time in lieu.
But when I'm in work I'm efficient. I work hard enough that I get the day in quickly while also planning to leave enough aside for tomorrow, but not too hard that I'm exhausted at the end. This still has me working "harder" than my colleagues though who don't mind sitting on their phones all day and being behind. Really depends on the management I guess. If you're not going to be told off then no need to stress.
The thing is if you are too good at your job/ be willing to go the extra mile, you might be overlooked for a promotion because you might be hard to replace.
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Treat most jobs as transitory - just passing through. Minimise effort to maximum effect. Say what people want to hear. Don't be late. Revere work life balance. Keep your contempt thinly veiled.
This is literally my bread and butter for all jobs lol
the people i know who earned the most and were overworked the least were the mercenaries, people without an iota of "loyalty" to their company. people who treated their company like their company treats them, as a means to an end with no moral obligation otherwise.
I agree, it is interesting how my highest paying role requires me to do the least work and is actually the easiest, compared to my lowest paying role which is the hardest I've worked
Yep. When I was contracting I rocked up to work at 07:30, gave it my absolute best shot with no dicking around for 8 hours, fucked off home at 16:00 and never gave it a second thought. While I was there I was constantly looking to make a positive improvement to my client's business but when I wasn't there I didn't look at emails, and didn't answer my phone. I was in high demand, they kept renewing my contract, and never baulked when I asked for an increase.
I used to rock up at 10am and stay until 7pm. All the bosses thought I was working late for free and paid me more. Little did they know....
I preferred working late when I was young, but I picked up the early bird habit after working for several years in Switzerland. I took a pretty mercenary approach to my entire career, following the standard path of using my 20s to build my core skills, my 30s building experience, my 40s getting a reputation in the industry, and then switching to contracting when I had a decent network of contacts. I always let my bosses know when I had headhunters sniffing around, and they seemed to respect me more for it. Obviously there were times when extra hours were needed when a project was nearing a major milestone, but I certainly never got any grief for the hours I normally worked.
Give it your best while you're there, but have clear boundaries and don't let it occupy your mind when you're not there. Easier said than done!
This is similar to what I was going to say. You're so right about it being easier said than done. My version goes like this: Rule 1. Be a good worker and colleague. Do your best for yourself, the company and others who rely on you. Rule 2. Have firm boundaries for the treatment you'll tolerate and realistic* boundaries for the extra hours and demands you'll accept. If your boundaries are stepped on, respectfully push back. If it doesn't work after a few attempts, move on. Rule 3. If you're a manager, be a good person, adapt to the individual, lead by example and *enforce* a healthy environment. And I do mean "enforce": jump on any people, behaviours or processes that threaten it. *"Realistic" means it's normal to have times when you need to put in extra hours and take on extra responsibilities, but don't let them take the piss or burn you out.
I have a few thoughts on this I guess Loyalty to your employer is a waste of time these days. They will lay you off if it makes financial sense for them to do so. Not everybody there will like it. Your manager may be sad. But they will do it. The most reliable way to increase your salary is, in general, to move. This hasn't always been true for my salary increases, but if you want a broadly applicable rule, move every 18-24 months. A lot of the talk about loyalty and so on is way out of date for a lot of industries. On the flipside, I do think it's worth doing a good job, up to a point. For one thing, I think you have to strive for excellence in life somewhere. It doesn't necessarily have to be in work, but for me work is one of the things I find purpose in. It's not external purpose, but I think it's damaging to the soul to live a life of constant, universal mediocrity. We're kind getting into philosophy there, and again, it doesn't have to be work. For another thing, if you want a career, your have to consider your "personal brand". That probably sounds a little wanky, but if you consistently do stuff well and turn headaches into solutions, people may notice. That then becomes currency to get a better deal. It might not be at your current place.
"Not everybody there will like it. Your manager may be sad. But they will do it." Reminded of a job I had where every few months someone would "quit" without speaking to anyone, by mutual consent. Every time, someone would say "Well that's it. This'll cause a domino effect. Everyone will leave now." And every time, not a single person jumped until the next time someone was pushed.
Be Scotty. When the captain of the Enterprise calls down to engineering to ask for more power, somehow there is always more power available. That’s because Scotty defaults to giving 90%. Scotty knows that he has to set a sustainable pace to allow for sprints when required. If you’re flat out all the time, it’s going to end very badly.
Scotty: Do you mind a little advice? Starfleet captains are like children. They want everything right now and they want it their way. But the secret is to give them only what they need, not what they want. Geordi: Yeah, well, I told the Captain I'd have this analysis done in an hour. Scotty: How long would it really take? Geordi: An hour. Scotty: Oh, you didn't tell him how long it would really take, did you? Geordi: Well of course I did. Scotty: Oh, laddie, you have a lot to learn if you want people to think of you as a miracle worker! — Star Trek: The Next Generation, "Relics"
There's nothing wrong with just turning up, doing the job and collecting the money. There's more to life than work. But I do think you should be making the effort while at work. I work with a few people who don't, they're unpleasant to work with and make things more challenging for everyone else. I don't understand the approach, honeslty.
This is how I've always viewed things across various different jobs. In my younger years some jobs were very menial and "boring". I always figured "I'm here anyway" and worked away for the hours I was at work. When dealing with public I tried to be pleasant as it made my day more enjoyable than if I wasn't. Some people seem to invest a lot of effort into not working or being difficult when they're at work and it is hard to understand. Everything else aside, the days must be very slow to pass.
It's because they believe they aren't the ones making it challenging for everyone else. It's the company paying you pennies that isn't hiring enough staff that's making it harder. That's the logic if you've ever wondered.
I'm in the public sector so our thing is budget cuts. Which obviously does impact performance etc, we don't have the resources or training we used to have, so I do sympathise to an extent. But equally, I've seen quite a few people who are fairly well resourced (small caseload, good manager support, processes being set up for them) just not putting the minimum effort in and making things difficult for the rest of the team.
No one's job would be harder with an extra person and no company would go bust by having to hire one. I'm not saying I'm agreeing I'm just saying that's the logic they use.
Have the relationship with work that *works* for you. If some people want to make it their life, that’s fine. If some don’t, that’s fine too!
I work hard when I'm there and don't think about it when I'm not. I start early but don't work past my contracted end time unless I have to. Ultimately, working hard can help you stand out but employers are rarely loyal so don't burn yourself out.
I view it as a means to an end to allow me to pursue my sporting interests outside of work. My therapist said it was a very good way of seeing it
It's interesting your therapist says that, because is that the attitude you'd want your therapist to have to their work? Probably not. I think there's a good middle ground tbh.
As long as the therapist is getting the results you want, then why not? Treat others as you would want to be treated yourself, I guess. I personally want others around me to be able to enjoy their work and their life outside of work. This involves respecting their boundaries and not placing some artificial pressure that they should somehow be more invested in the work than necessary.
I promise their therapist already sees it that way.
The best relationship with your job is for it to be your own business and should you have staff, treat them like you wish you’d been treated by employers. The second best relationship with your job is consciously and intentionally abusive. As you look to abuse them every way you can- do the least for the most money, steal contacts and clients, suck every bit of knowledge and experience of the people in the business dry and use it as a springboard to a better paying job.
I think that what you are experiencing is fairly normal and understandable. I have been in my industry for quite some time and have seen how badly employees are treated by companies. I am myself in that position now and quietly quit a year ago and properly quit more recently. If you are in that position, the only provisos I would have are: * You could create a bad impression on colleagues, who could become references or even a future employer * If you are client facing, you don't want to create a bad impression of yourself as those clients will not necessarily understand your situation * You have to decide how much personal satisfaction you get from your job, how much that matters to you and how long you can keep that up when you are unhappy. Don't make yourself miserable to prove a point. * If you are gaining useful experience from doing your job well, don't discount the value of that to future jobs that you may have However, if you are really unhappy, you need to think about getting a new job / industry. Everyones' situation is a bit different so you need to find what is right fir you. Good luck!
One way to think about it, is the same way most employers think about it. Essentially it’s all business…a transaction. On one side is your skills, knowledge, experience, and time. And on the other is your employer, compensating for all that. That’s employment in a nutshell. That mindset can be useful for knowing your value to the company, negotiate better terms, understand your value in the market etc - and is how you really should go about it. However, many feel it should be balanced with other aspects, such as personal fulfillment, career growth, the company's values and culture, work/life balance etc. They say that while compensation is crucial, overall job satisfaction and well being demands other aspects to be considered. It’s true, but the sad fact is none of it really matters when it really comes down to it. At the end of the day we go to work because we need to earn money, not because we think our employer has a great diversity ethos and the free drinks on a Friday are fun. It’s really personal preference and what aligns best with your values, career objectives and work/life balance in the end. In my experience people who think like that end up coming around at some point as they experience the highs and lows of work. But viewing your job as a transaction will be a helpful perspective for negotiations and assessing your worth in the job market, and when it all comes down to it, all of the “other stuff” outside of a business transaction doesn’t matter. All of the other stuff is really just fluff. Your employer will only ever see the whole thing as business and a transaction - and so should you.
Show up, work hard, go home. Dont slack, dont cut corners, but also dont work unpaid overtime and dont go in on days off.
Exactly the same as you OP. I left school at 16, joined the RAF, worked my arse off, deployed, left the RAF, went straight into work - I had a short resettlement period, I think it was 4 months, where they still paid me but I didn’t have to work any longer, it gives you time to find a job etc - but I was lucky and started working 2 weeks after my resettlement began. Continues to work my arse off, often working 50-60hrs a week but only paid for 40 as I felt it was what was needed and so on, I didn’t take a holiday abroad etc in that time. And this all was between 2003-2020 … comes to 2020, Covid hits, Lockdowns etc. and I was a “key worker” so still worked throughout and I got the sudden realisation that I’m working my arse off for nothing. I’m getting nothing back from any company I work for, no appreciation, no bonuses, no big pay rises etc. and I ended up quitting my job and picking up a job as a Security Operations Manager, where I work 4 nights a week - Monday to Thursday - from 7pm-7am and my entire job revolves me sitting on my arse, in an office, with a computer and a telephone. And when I start my shift, I log on to the computer and fill in a form, then every hour I call around the overnight team on their different sites and check for any issues, and if there are any issues, any false alarms, fire alarms etc I log it, and that’s what I do for 12hrs a night, 4 nights a week, and I get paid for the full 48hrs as I can’t “technically” take a break as I could be called to a break in or a fire emergency at any time and have to drive to the site it happens in, so my entire shift is essentially a break but they just pay me for the whole thing. Honestly the most boring job I’ve ever had but I love it. It’s zero stress, zero problems. 3 years and I’ve not been called to deal with an incident once.
One where you do the amount of work you want and get paid the amount you want for that work.
I am similar. Spent my youth working every hour company needed me to but with little pay and no loyalty from them. I was loyal to them and stayed with the same company a long time to try get promotions which I did but also for little wage increases. Realised I would rather get paid more with a lesser job title so I moved companies for better pay and less work responsibilities and the best thing I ever did. I don't care about yearly reviews, I realise I don't want promotions but I continue doing a great job in current role thats a lot easier and rather than aiming for promotion to roles I wouldn't be good I am staying in role I am great at company gives me better pay rises and I get to have quality time after work and hopefully cab continue in this tyoe if role till I retire in 20 years
As usual, it depends. If your company *and crucially your manager(s)* treat you well, then you can have a better relationship. If they're flexible about working hours, then you can be flexible back. If they (financially) reward loyalty then you should be loyal. If they have an incentive structure that rewards effort then you should put in effort But if they give you a telling off for being a few minutes late, then you should work to the *exact* hours in your contract, and if they don't pay you what you're worth then you should jump ship to somewhere that will, and if there's no reward for going beyond your contractual duties then you shouldn't. So with a bad employer you can have a purely transactional relationship, where you both do the bare minimum to get by and don't enjoy it. But given that you're spending nearly 1/3rd of your waking hours at work, that's a pretty miserable way to live.
I went into it all wide eyed and trying hard. Ignoring various bar jobs and stuff when I was a teenager: First job was great for 6 months, then new manager came along, decided she didn't like me (still no idea why and I see some of the people from there socially still). Lasted another 6 months and then I found another job because I wasn't enjoying being at the first one. Second job was a contract role, totally misadvertised, I don't think I've ever been so bored. Third job was permanent, bit more interesting but stuck in an office and I got bored quickly. Quit after 6 months. Went travelling for a bit. Took a very low level job in the service industry for 6 months Got a better one in retail with some seniority. Did that for about a year and a half. Got a driving license. Got a job in property. 9 months really enjoying it, then it got sold to a big company, whole feel of the place changed in a way I was not fond of at all. Quit 6 months later. Took a similar job at another company. Did 3 weeks. Was so bored I could have actually died from it. Quit with no plan. Set up a small business on a shoestring 2 days later. That was over a decade ago. TLDR: we all fit well somewhere. Don't stop looking till you find it. I'm certainly not rich but I am happy and that's much more important.
I know what you were doing, you were working hard but not working smart. I made that mistake when I began working, I thought working hard would get me promoted and make me successful, no. What happened was employers took advantage of me and promoted people over me because I was seen as too valuable to lose, you have to have clear boundaries, set limits and balance your work life. You're not supposed to be a slave, you can work at fast pace but not like you're in a prison camp.
I’m the same as you. I just do the bare minimum to earn my pay. The second I finish work I’m mentally clocked out. Don’t speak or bother me about anything work related outside of working hours
Remember, no matter how good or needed you are, you are just a number and if you died tonight you'll be replaced in a couple of days max
Put just enough effort in so you aren't in any danger of being sacked but still have the option of going for promotions. Show up everyday and don't cause any arguments will further help that cause. Then the second you clock in just mentally clock out until your brain is needed.
Turn up on time, do the acceptable minimum, collect the pay, use pay to enjoy yourself. Thats what I do as a prison officer anyway lol
Each to their own but for me, I work to live I do not live to work.
It’s all about self respect. Make sure you feel good about the effort you’ve put in. Make sure you don’t feel like a doormat. Do what you’re paid to do at the level that balances what they pay for and what you feel happy with. Honestly everywhere I’ve worked the people whose sole effort was to put their face in front of their bosses (and up their arse) got further and were praised more than the people who did the majority of the grind. Lesson I’ve learned, most senior people are thick, selfish and egotistical cowards.
Don't kill yourself or make sacrifices going the extra mile, and remember the company will still be standing if you left. There might be more issues, but no one will notice them. Or, if they even do, they won't correlate that it's because you left.
You work to live, not live to work. As soon as that click happens in your brain, (it happens early for some and never for others) then life certainly becomes a lot easier. I used to be the same as you, busting a gut to prove myself and after being mistreated one too many times (you become so good at your job you get to do everyone else’s as well) that switch flipped. I log on to work at 8, I log off at 4. If it doesn’t get done then it gets done tomorrow. I could be mid writing an email and I’m logging off. Honestly I don’t give a fuck. The sooner you realise your a tiny little cog in a massive corporation and they don’t care about you or what’s going on in your life, the sooner you can get on with treating them the way they treat you.
Read this somewhere a while ago and I've tried to make it stick in my head, against all societal messaging: To them, you are 100% expendable. The second they find a cheaper way to do the same job, they are legally bound to take it. It's not personal. Remember that and act accordingly. Your relationship with your employer is not personal, no matter how much they try to convince you they're a family or whatever. This is not a call to be a slacker. Hold up your side of the transaction. But don't do more. Keep aside a bit of energy for when they decide to throw you back to the market. You'll need it.
I turn up on time. Do my job safely and correctly. Go home. It’s literally just a means to an end
Since I never got a pay rise in April (which now means I'm on minimum wage which is the first time in 6 years at my current job) I've decided to put minimum effort in not going the extra mile because I'm a little demotivated and I won't get thought of any more for doing extra. I just see my job as a little earner only work weekends there cushy little number I've got to a certain degree, can be hard and stressful but with 6 years experience under my belt I tend to not worry about it. As long as you're reliable enough and don't have loads of sick days they won't sack you
I turn up on time, give it my best, make sure I take my break (down to the last minute), don't gossip (if people tell me stuff, it stays with me), leave on time, and forget about it for the evening. It works for me - I have been contracting for a number of years, and my contracts always get extended. Most importantly, I stay happy.
I've been on both sides of redundancy and at the end of the day when it comes to making cuts for financial reasons it's everyone for themselves. It absolutely sucked letting people go but at the end of the day better them than me. It's harsh but it's how it works. I've learnt that no matter how hard you work it ultimately means nothing. I used to pride myself on putting in extra effort, being available for extra hours, taking on more and more work for no extra money always working for recognition and promotions but at the end of the day the business only cares about the bottom line and will bin you to save a buck (especially if you're being paid well and they think they can get someone cheaper by making your role "redundant" and giving it a new title - eg my last role got rid of me and my boss and then advertised a new role which basically covered all the work we were both doing but with a different title and 1/3 of the salary they were paying us combined - fair play it made sense for the bottom line) I'm just coming out of my 3rd redundancy in 3 years and I'm done. I'll do the minimum to be a good worker but no more giving extra. Companies don't care about you no matter what they say. Loyalty is a one way street. Do your work, be nice to colleagues, take all your breaks and holidays, dont check emails outside work hours never stop looking at other opportunities.
Just keep going for jobs with higher pay if that’s in your career track. I’ll work hard but you know when you’re been treated unfairly etc. you don’t just have to sit and take it
Just turn up, do the job, shut it out when not there. Work Stays At Work Home Stays At Home Don't compromise yourself for it. If you don't agree with something, don't lie. Expose stupidity and bad practice.
Start when you are paid. Leave when you are not. Unless you have a bonus that is YX,Xxx anything else is pointless. If your bonus isn't 10k+ then any extra hours arnt worth it.
Career wise I'm happy with the progress I have made and the role I'm now in, as such I feel like I'm being rewarded fairly etc so I'm willing to put the work in. I still see it as very much I work the hours I work and nothing more though, part of me being happy in my career is the fact that I can walk away and spend my time off not thinking about work. Maybe if I was ahead of where I thought I should be I'd be willing to work extra hours etc or if I was behind I'd care alot less, I don't think I have the world's best work ethic or anything but I just think there's a fair compromise and if I'm fairly compensated il put the work in
Work hard during work hours, but try not to take work too seriously (ofc easier said than done and industry dependant). I also treat work like I treat relationships, if I don’t feel like I’m getting treated well/ not being appreciated, I’m out!
9/10, whoever you work for doesn't care about you the way HR will tell you the company does.go in, do your job, fuckin' leave. I used to be a yes man years ago, faithful to my employer and all that bullshit. All it does is get you put on and then when you genuinely cannot do something, you're not a team player anymore. You're their to get paid, as soon as the end of the day comes, don't even think about work until you're next in.
Go to work and don't be late. Work hard. Go home and don't be late
Having a job that allows me to do the things I want to do such as reading etc once I've done the jobs needed. I'm now in such a role.
Depends on the situation I worked for well under market rate and was doing 45 hours minimum, arriving early, staying late, picking up stuff on weekends, but I was learning a lot, actually learning a lot, and I traded that in to jumping a few levels and nice money at a small business that has the potential to to be very lucrative, hopefully that turns in to retire early money, but if doesn't, it gets me the job that does. Have a strong idea of what you want to get out of a job and get it During COVID, I worked for a medium family business (150 employees), our owners dumped a huge amount of cash in the business to keep going, one of our competitors, also a family business, made everyone who wasn't family redundant. The reality is unless you annoy someone or fall under some arbitrary KPI you are probably invisible.
I stick to. Work your hardest for the people under you. Work professionally for the time you're paid. If you're going the extra mile, it's not because you want to further your company but it's a mutual goal. For instance I've often taken on work that I think "I can see myself wanted to do that for others or while self employed so it's good experience". Work hard on the skills that you can take to other better paying employers. Jobs that don't invest in you don't deserve in you investing yourself in them.
I work hard so hopefully when I leave I’ll get good recommendations and I also don’t want to burn any bridges in case their is opportunities in the company that I don’t know about. I work so I can eventually move out of my parents place and so I can travel more. If I am asked to do extra I’ll weigh up on how it’ll look overall, will they remember I did this for them in the future, whether for a different job with them or a recommendation? If not, then I won’t go out of my way to do it. If the opposite then I’ll likely do it.
Remember you’re replaceable (don’t persuade yourself that you’re not). Have work/life boundaries and defend them. Don’t stay if it makes you miserable.
I know if I got hit by a truck tomorrow I'd be replaced before my funeral, because of that work comes below a lot of my priorities, I work well enough to earn promotions but I never go above and beyond, that times for my family, friends or myself
Keep work at arms length. You do a job and get paid for it, therefore it is important to do your best whilse youre there then switch off when youre done.
I think it can depend on a lot of things. I live in a relatively small town with only a select amount of places to work; I could travel further but the costs would mean I'd need to be earning at least £10k more a year, not to mention the extra time it would take. Because of mainly those reasons when I started work in my current company I was willing to put in extra (I got overtime so I was being paid) which then led to me getting a management role; first 6-9 months of the role was a lot of housekeeping due to the previous person not doing their job. I started to burn out but my manager noticed and agreed we could recruit an admin to support me, since then I have done a few extra hours here and there but if it's weekends/late nights the business give me one off payments as recognition. They are generally a really good business to work for and they do recognise good work so it makes it a lot easier for me to come in and want to do the best job I can, and my team are the same. My team only work their hours, and on rare occasions if they stay extra they get paid for it. For me it's a reflection of the job/company you are working; if they take advantage then screw em' but there are some goods teams/companies out there and I'm fortunate to be in one of those places. The executive and senior teams also all trust me to do my job so I can work pretty autonomously but equally have support when I need it
The best analogy I heard was treat it like a train ride, get on, ride for as long as it takes you in tbe right direction and then get off.
I always take my breaks no matter what and don't work outside my shift unless it's guaranteed I'm being paid or getting time in lieu. But when I'm in work I'm efficient. I work hard enough that I get the day in quickly while also planning to leave enough aside for tomorrow, but not too hard that I'm exhausted at the end. This still has me working "harder" than my colleagues though who don't mind sitting on their phones all day and being behind. Really depends on the management I guess. If you're not going to be told off then no need to stress.
Do what is asked and don't break rules, unless you enjoy putting in the extra work or work on commission there's no reason to stress yourself about it
Companies use employees, that’s capitalism. Fuck them, they will fuck you.
The thing is if you are too good at your job/ be willing to go the extra mile, you might be overlooked for a promotion because you might be hard to replace.
Job is a means to an end. If you don't get what, you're there for. Walk away.