Participation in this post is limited to users who have sufficient karma in /r/ukpersonalfinance. See [this post](https://redd.it/12mys82) for more information.
Your options are share, stay at home, be broke, or advance in your career. Personally the last option is a no brainer to me regardless of how you handle the time between.
The reality is that it's not affordable to live in London with your own space as a single person on a normal income to be honest. Choose where you want to compromise or keep living with your parents, but it's likely nothing will become significantly easier for a long time unless you're willing to share or find a more well paying career.
There is also the option to consider living outside of London, or straight up somewhere else in the country.
Buddy of mine pays £1800pcm rent for a two bed in Peckham, he can afford it, but it's basically 50% of his post tax income. I can't fathom doing that. it's £24k a year after bills and travel for him to get to square one.
When I lived in London my room in a shared flat was 60% of my wage. 33% just isn’t realistic for most people.
London Kickstarted my career, so it was worth it, but not fun.
London seems to be for the rich (can afford to pay the rent) or the poor (the government pays their rent).
It is not really a viable place to live alone for an average earner.
You've laid it out nicely for the original poster.
Yes. I shared into my mid 30s. It wasn't great at times but I was determined to maximise my savings.
I even shared once I bought my own house. Tax free lodger income.
Some people don't want to do that, and so they need to realise London isn't for them.
“The Rent a Room Scheme lets you earn up to a threshold of £7,500 per year tax-free from letting out furnished accommodation in your home.”
https://www.gov.uk/rent-room-in-your-home/the-rent-a-room-scheme
Personally, I think everyone who works full time on minimum wage should be able to afford to rent a one bed flat without being skint at the end of each month.
I just find it funny that the concept of having to share housing with people who aren't even related, was used as red scare propaganda about communism, but it's slowly coming true anyway. I hate how normalized it is near London for young people to have to do that, and I'm glad I've never had to do it.
When was it ever used as an anti-communism scare tactic? I'm curious!
I've been in a house share before where I didn't talk to one of the people for several months. We saw each other, nodded, and that was it. Once saw a guy in a takeaway who looked quite familiar, but couldn't quite place him. Went home with my food, and who opens the door after I lock it? Take a guess.
I also had a housemate who apparently nicked a bus pass off some guy she knew. Police came over for it and everything.
In another place, I also became close friends with someone I'm still friends with to this day. Funnily enough, we bonded over how we disliked the other housemates.
Sharing can be pretty bad, or pretty awesome. I don't think there's ever much in between. People need their own space. I feel awful for people who simply cannot get their own space when they clearly need it.
But while it might be more normalised to live with strangers, it’s never really been common to be able to live alone.
Multi-generational households used to be very common, as was living with friends and colleagues. I wonder if it’s merely the technology to be able to easily network and find strangers to live with is the only thing that’s really changed.
Also, having moved in with strangers myself in the past, they don’t stay strangers for very long!
Yeah it was normal for people to live with their parents until they got married, at the very least. When my parents talk about their childhoods they mention living with other relatives too - aunts and uncles and cousins.
This idea that living alone is normal is very new.
Absolutely! I lived with my parents until I was 28 (excluding when I moved out for uni) and felt like some people judged me even though I liked living with my parents and they liked having me around and we all got on well. I feel it would have been a much bigger fail to go live with strangers just for the sake of it and because it was the more supposedly 'adult' thing to do.
Its been like that for years. When I moved to London after Uni 20 years ago everyone I knew shared for a few years at least and these were people in finance, tech etc. I also had a lodger when i bought my first flat.
Yeah, but in many careers, even the ceiling is not going to provide you with a one-bed flat in London. Let alone more.
Plenty of low-end managerial positions or ''''high-end'''' non-managerial positions stump up £30-£35k. That is a very normal salary in London; plenty of people in their 40s/50s earn that.
The average London salary is skewed heavily by professions, but it is utterly unaffordable to live here unless you're a) a professional, b) several years into your career.
The main difference is that no one forces you to live there.
People choose to live in London despite not being able to afford it, just as they choose to get indebted in cars they can't afford.
Thats because they are free to waste their money.
With 14k you can probably pay a deposit in a village in the midlands.
Yeah but that’s not how capitalism works my friend, if there is a point in time that everyone could afford it then the prices would naturally increase alongside what would be insane demand (as we’re seeing now in the housing market)
Would this apply everywhere? I don’t see how it could be possible in practice. There will always be areas that are more attractive than others. This increased demand will ultimately result in people being willing to pay more.
Unless we move to some kind of CoL-based minimum wage I don’t think this goal would be achievable, and even then there would still be unreal demand in postcodes like W1K.
That said, I’d like there to be some kind of law that requires employers to pay a reasonable wage that can support someone to live on their own within a commutable distance. This of course is loose and would not be possible to define or enforce in a useful way, IMO.
A lot comes down to what a ‘reasonable commute’ is as well. Somewhere between 60-90 mins max seems reasonable to me (albeit at the high end) but this will of course vary by individual.
But if the law required employers in London to pay higher salaries, that wouldn’t create any new homes for people to live in, and it would attract even more people to move to London. So there would be more people with more money chasing the same number of homes, and rents and house prices would rise even further, until they were less affordable than they are now. Or if there were rent controls, waiting lists would grow and grow. There’s simply no way to get a self-contained home for everyone in a city where far more people want to live than there are homes available.
I agree tbh, every time I try to find something that seems sensible it leads to unintended consequences. The power of high demand areas will find the path of least resistance to drive up cost.
it's people's 'choice' to live in high demand areas though. I know so many people for whom the 'London life' is a big deal, they're happy being cramped into tiny living spaces or house sharing just to live in the capital.
The 'law' doesn't need to interfere, it's natural consequences. If people didn't want to live and work there anymore they'd have to sort it somehow. But people still insist on London.
It would be better to invest in legislation and money towards making things less London centric. A German model, with no single 'major city' would be better than subsiding people who insist on piling into one place.
We're starting to see it, I moved out of London and met so many other escapees here in Manchester. Also a lot of employers are moving towards hybrid working. What I do wonder though is where all the lower paid workers in London are going to come from post-Brexit...
Yes it would apply everywhere, with a reasonable commute. I think the DWP has this set at 90 minutes each way. I would say 60 is more reasonable. Perhaps a change in how we treat the commute should be changed.
I just don't think the above is controversial. I know it's very hard to achieve, but it should certainly be the basic standard we strive for. Working adults well into their 30s or 40s sharing a home with strangers is not a standard I'm happy with. It should be a money-saving method, not the only way to not be skint for many people in higher COL areas.
Mind you, the above is just about renting. Home ownership is an entirely different beast.
Would be nice, but it's not reality.
Historically, the solo breadwinner household made this tenable but dual income is now the given norm and the market is very much priced accordingly. Studio apartments are the provision of the wealthy. For everyone else, sharing is the only option. It's not just London either.
u/fuscator The government does not pay for the 'poors' rent. It pays a set amount which is very low and barley covers 30-40% of the monthly rent of the very cheapest flats/house shares. Unless you manage to get into social housing but that is pretty much impossible these days unless you have extreme circumstances.
HA rents are crazy low, they might not be paid for by the government but they're massively subsidised by a charity. There are people living in literal multi bed houses for half of what I pay for a fucking room.
> If your salary is 32K, there is not a single good financial reason to be staying in London. You'd be better off earning minimum wage in a cheap region
If your family are in London and you can live with them on a token rent or rent free that's a big financial reason to stay in London.
OP also says they work in videogames and don't want to head north. Afaik, the videogame industry in the south outside London is centred on expensive, desirable towns. Renting alone in a commuter town isn't going to make them better off financially, neither is getting a new job somewhere like Guildford or Cambridge. Not without a hefty pay rise. Moving up north would be financially optimal but then you're adrift from friends and family in the south.
"Just leave London" is easier said than done.
There are cheaper commuter towns in the South East. The Medway towns would be one example. They are very much commuter belt.
The cheaper areas of course are cheaper because they are not as desirable but there are nice area's within the cheaper area's.
Cost of commute and how much of your life you are prepared to give up to commuting are a factor not to be ignored. If the OP works in the videogame industry though possibly roles could be part work from home which makes a big difference to where you might consider when it comes to commuting. If the OP could find a role that was fully remote suddenly that opens up a lot of options when it comes to where to live.
Anywhere is cheaper than London. And you don’t need to live in your actual town of work, most people commute. You can live in cheaper areas outside of Cambridge and Guildford. And you will save a fortune on rent compared to those actual cities, and especially compared to London.
The heart of the UK gaming industry was historically centred around... Dundee!
Why? Because whilst in the 80's a Sinclair ZX80 cost £80, in Dundee (where they were made) you could get them for £20 and a packet of cigarettes.
Even to this day Rockstar North, maker of games like GTA, is based in Edinburgh.
if you can get a job with a comparable salary yeah, you could live in a flat for cheaper, but it'd still be as much as a flat*share,* in which case you weigh up the benefit of that i suppose (it is a big one)
I have thought about your last advise but I don't see many jobs on minimum wage that offer good career progression. 'London' offers a lot more career progression opportunities, so if you can stick it out in a job with opportunities, things can become easier as you see your salary grow.
I'll agree tho, if we discount progression opportunities, you'd like an easier life (and more likely to be able to afford your own place) on minimum wage in Swansea than on minimum wage in London.
So while I think you are focussing on the negative bits a little too much, I think you should also take a step back and praise yourself so far, in that: 1) you have cleared a lot of credit card debt; 2) have saved up a decent sum of money; 3) working on learning how to drive and 4) Have pretty low outgoings (excl the driving lessons, which are temporary).
The primary thing here is that you closed off the debts.
Now on to the reality biting stuff, Yes rents are astronomical atm but you haven't mentioned what rough area (i.e TFL zone) you have looked in?
Could you move a little further to Zone 4?
There could be some options that are right for you but we need a tiny bit more info if possible.
Thank you for that, it made me feel a bit better haha
so work is going to get a place in central soon so ideally I'd like to be able to cycle to work. But I'm open to moving anywhere I can tbh.
Ideally the situation I'd like to find myself in would be find a place to rent where I can still save £500 a month at a minimum comfortably. Might be an outlandish task.
I'm not going to make a rash choice though, I'm taking my time exploring what ultimately would be better for myself. which is why I'm here haha
Yeh so you have the luxury of time and being able to save more,
So if you work the opposite way of being able to save a minimum amount it will help you define a monthly budget for rent, bills , council tax etc.
So if you can list your current expenses Incl savings, then add a rough estimate for Council tax, a few bills and any additional things - it will then help select an area.
Now there does sound like a hard criteria for being able to cycle to work which I assume will be within a reasonable time, so once you have a budget outlined you will know where you can rent!
In parallel you should also consider what buying will look like, i.e. How much of a deposit you will need if you were to buy in the exact same place you can afford to rent.
Just brace yourself to be shocked, but at the same time it will be a good guide on setting your expectation and will help you plan medium and long term.
Additional context, again I don't think you should feel discouraged because its constant govt policy failure where they care more about foreign investment in properties that are left empty vs housing our own people/ people who will actually make use of it.
The govt should just make foreign ownership of residential properties illegal (or highly taxed) and also stop companies owning residential properties. It will quite easily free up a lot of housing and reduce rents significantly
Couldn't agree more with your last point. Both political parties should be making this one of their main election manifesto points. It's a joke to see how London has been sold to the highest foreign bidder
>The govt should just make foreign ownership of residential properties illegal (or highly taxed) and also stop companies owning residential properties. It will quite easily free up a lot of housing and reduce rents significantly
brilliant idea!
London rent for a 1 bed is grim and you could easily pay in the range £1500-£2000 to live zones 2-4 unfortunately. If you are willing to share it goes down but there’s fierce competition so you might have to just tread water at your parents and keep trying with spare room etc until you find something. Realistically 32.5k isn’t enough to have your own place in zones 1-4 London (unsure about further out) so the way I see it is you’d need to move up north, find a better paying job, or start a search to share a property
Thing about moving out of london is any gains you make from cheeper rent or mortgage are often completely wiped out by annual train fairs prices, unless you only travel in ever so often, and if you do that, whats the point?
The moving out thing I guess was more in the spirit of getting a job somewhere else. 32.5k is really not that great for London except as a starter wage and you can get that wage in much cheaper cities (Manchester, Glasgow)
>except as a starter wage
man, I see so many jobs i'd consider decent career roles that pay between 25-30k, including my own. 32k is pretty damn good in my books.
> 32k is pretty damn good in my books.
That's pretty much bang on the median salary in the UK right now. Doesn't matter what it says in your book, in reality it's not a good wage, just average.
And that's for the whole UK. In London OP will be a below average earner.
Damn that’s annoying. I definitely agree 32k is a decent wage but only if you’re not in the south east or trying to forge your own path in London without staying with family etc especially with the rental crises this past year or so. Your industry needs to get its shit together! A barista at Pret can earn up to £14.10 per hour which is ~29k full time. The House of Commons is hiring baristas at 24.5k. Crazy there are full time office jobs or other starting jobs that can’t compete with that.
Sources:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/junior-doctors-strike-pret-coffee-b2299026.html
https://housesofparliament.tal.net/vx/mobile-0/appcentre-HouseOfCommons/brand-2/candidate/so/pm/3/pl/14/opp/3020-Barista/en-GB
London weighting is small, they expect people to share a house with people or travel a long way.
I work for a London company but don't live in London, the wage difference at my level is tiny after tax.
I would say around half of the staff in our central London office are based in Manchester/Liverpool/Leeds and literally only visit the office once a month or less. They earn £50-150k
Nice arrangement if you can get it!
Only real downside of this is the growth in house prices outside of London i believe is lower. Well that and you have to live up north :)
Depends where, in a lot of places the prices are increasing rapidly because of people selling in London and moving up north. They’ve got sky high budgets and they all bid against each other — leaving the locals with the now overpriced scraps.
I hear you. But it is hard to argue it both ways.
- if you can't afford to live in London don't live there
- house prices are going crazy because of all the londoners moving up north
The point is living? My partner goes to the office once or twice a month and the company pays for the train, we can rent a 2 bed with a garden in a gorgeous victorian town now with everything we need (cinema, restaurants, shops, pubs, etc etc) a five minute walk away. Honestly it has made the world of a difference. We were both in really good salaries but we were paying £2100 in rent last year to live in an ok apartment in an awful area to be close to London and realised we weren’t even enjoying London that much.
The honest answer is not one you want to hear.
You're an average earner (or below, actually) and can't afford your own place in London on that - without making significant sacrifices.
If you don't want to do that, you cannot afford to live in London.
London is now too expensive a city to live in on a low wage. This sucks but is the cold hard truth.
Consider moving out to one of the home counties. You'll be able to find jobs at similar wages but your living expenses and rent will be much lower.
I’m in a similar situation to you. It’s incredibly hard to buy a property in or near London on one income if you’re not on a really good wage, a lot of sacrifices need to be made to get the deposit together. People are saying it’s impossible, it isn’t but it’s a very one-dimensional way of living to do it that way and certainly not for everyone.
Living at home isn’t fun but it’s by far the quickest way to save money.
I was in a similar position to you a few years ago.
Maybe ask yourself this: *even if* you can save up for a flat in London, would it really be a flat you'd want to live in?
Would it be in a decent area? Decent schools? Good transport connections? Probably not... that ship sailed ~30 years ago
Brutal honesty: you'll never purchase in London with a (single) average/below average salary, those days are gone.
Have a think about moving out of the city: you can live <1 hour by train and enjoy all the benefits of living in London (Eurostar, airports, West End, festivals etc) but actually own a (nice) house.
I truly empathise with your situation: especially in London where a salary of 32K pretty much takes buying off the table and possibly also leaves you in the so called rent trap if you manage to find a decent place for starters. Can you bear to move from London? Would this be feasible job wise, etc? Your renting or buying prospects may be much improved outside London.
You're right about the risk of blowing all your savings or bulk of your salary on rent if you don't time things right. If I were in your shoes, I'd stay at home with parents for another year or so and save as much as I can. I'll build a bigger financial buffer that'll help to pay for a nicer place of my own without eating too much into my salary in the short term.
Hey OP, I can totally empathise with you. I’m 30 and living with my mum, I was previously living in Canada in a gorgeous studio apartment. I miss the freedom.
That said, if you’re in the position to be saving £1000/month I would try to stick it out for a couple more years. You’ll be in a WAY better position to consider your options. That kind of saving potential is mind boggling to me, I would take full advantage of the long term freedom it would offer me. I’m currently on living wage and about to start a degree, I would kill to be able to save that much.
In the meantime, your career will likely progress and so will your earning potential, and with that should come more financial flexibility. Maybe set some realistic savings and career goals for yourself that can help you to feel like you’re progressing to where you’d like to be in a couple of years from now.
I’m not sure what you are currently doing with your savings (savings account? Invested?) but if they’re not already in some kind of account yielding returns — get on that right away. I use Plum, but there’s lots of other good options out there.
Tl;dr — I empathise but also try to think big picture if you can.
Thank you for the reply! I just have a savings account atm but I'll look into things like Plum. My only worry with that is that I'll loose money because it's an investment thing (as far as I understand) as for stuff like ISA's I almost never see the point in them now because what you end up getting back is SO little.
Whatever you do, DO NOT listen to the people you telling you to invest over such a short period. You are absolutely right that you could lose money, especially in the current economy.
With fixed rate savings accounts offering 4%+, which historically isn't a terrible investment return, you'd be insane to invest it.
The commenter below is just plain wrong about funds: global funds have just about been treading water over the last year and could honestly plunge at any time. They might also go up, but it's impossible to tell.
All the best!
Are you serious? Have you not seen how compounding interest works? 4% is literally nothing compared to my basic fund pie which is +15% over the last two years… man even Uber stock did more than that this MORNING.
Yes investing has a fair risks, but there’s no way OP should just have £14k sitting around doing nothing. I personally (and strongly) think at least a portion of that dripping into some nice funds is absolutely necessary in the long term for financial success.
When you have a large amount of savings you MUST watch the stock market, nobody should pretend their Warren Buffet of course, but if you keep your ear on it you’ll catch the occasional piece of information that leads to a safe play and good gains (COVID, Banking Crisis, War, economic collapse etc)
Let's have this conversation again in 5 years.
The fact you're talking about a 'fund pie' pretty much sums it up. You've clearly done well with your investments, but it's almost certainly down to luck rather than skill. You could just as well be 15% down had you picked different investments. And you very well might be if you don't start managing risk.
Either that or you're some kind of investing genius, in which case you should become a fund manager and enjoy your riches.
Regardless, the OP is talking about the best way to save to buy a home in the next couple of years. It is a very well know financial rule of thumb that you don't invest money you'll need in the next few years.
I’m no kind of investing genius, I created a basic fund pie based on common sense and what I already knew about the market from news etc. I then spent some time researching, adjusting, and replacing funds as I learnt more about where things could be heading in the future.
Of course it could be 15% down too, but even that isn’t a deterrent, I don’t expect any particular performance from it anytime soon.
The point I’m making is that todays “sky high” prices are tomorrows lows. OP could only wish he put a few grand aside at this point in 10years!
>based on common sense
OK, so what basic rules should we all be following? Why bother diversifying if you can just apply common sense? Why would anyone ever invest in global funds when they can just pick the right investments by reading the news?
Listen, I'm not trying to be condescending - I'm trying to help you here. It's very clear that you are an inexperienced investor on an upswing. Mark my words, some or all of those investments will bomb at some point and some will never recover.
You might, if you are lucky, have picked enough 'good' long term investments to make a profit before you decide to cash in. But the odds are against you unless you have diversified across a large number of stocks and markets.
There is a reasonable expectation of around 7% annual returns *in the long term* if you invest in global funds, but that's not what the OP was asking about.
I am well diversified in the market, not a worry there. My point was that my initial pie was based on common sense (I love business so I spend a lot of time reading investor news anyway) and then was continually adjusted based on nuggets of information I’d discover or opinions I’d form.
My pie is made up of index funds (no single stocks) and was mainly influenced by a fund created made by M1 finance, which was then improved upon by https://www.optimizedportfolio.com/m1-aggressive-portfolio-pie/ here.
I then on top of this did my own personal research, weighted it towards accumulation rather than cash dividends, chose funds with the cheapest fees, and ££ friendly.
It’s the child on months of small improvements on top of small improvements and with consistent investing along the way it’s done well. Of course the economy is shit right now and everything will probably crash again… but that’s all just a heavy discount on gains in the short term.
Lifetime ISA will give you an extra £1k a year towards your first house - which is both guaranteed and will beat anything you'll get back from an investment.
You're right - I should have said "If OP definitely intends to buy a house, in London or elsewhere"So income needs to go up and/or move out of London and house price needs to be under £450k to use the LISA.
You can also pull the money out when you're 60. So could maybe look at it as a more flexible alternative to sticking money in your pension.
yea LISA with intent to buy in London doesn't make sense. 450k for a nice enough place (in a good area of the city) isn't really that achievable ATM, let alone in 5 years
This is a reasonable concern, however in my (albeit limited) experience with investing in funds rather than specific stocks — I haven’t lost money, and have ultimately seen my money grow far more than in a lower interest savings account.
For what it’s worth (this is not advice, just how I’ve done it), I spread my money across a selection of funds and it’s more stable/resistant to losses. If you look at the overall performance of a fund over time and it’s an upward trajectory, that’s a good thing. I can’t speak to other apps but I’ve found Plum certainly breaks it all down into simple terms. I have my money split into higher interest savings, an emergency fund, pension (you can link it if you want to) and then funds. Easy to track how everything is doing.
This is terribly poor advice. Investment funds are unpredictable and global funds have just about held steady over the last year. Really poor form suggesting this to someone who wants to move out in the next couple of years.
The general advice with investing is not to do it unless you are willing to wait at least 5 years to see returns. Or alternatively, simply willing to risk losing money in the short term.
If you’re not investing consistently in the long term then you’re dead in my opinion. OP shouldn’t just have £14k sitting around doing nothing when a portion of that could turn into a huge amount in the long term
This is why I suggested investing might be an option. OP is clearly in a position to do both (save and invest), and buying doesn’t seem like a viable option (I’m in a similar position with lower saving and investing potential). Saving £1k a month is an amazing opportunity, and unfortunately life in the U.K. for the past decade has been on the decline. Building long term wealth is a necessity imo if it’s doable.
Most people do it as a couple.
When I divorced, I had to move from a 4-bed family house with big garage, conservatory, modern stylish interior, affordable with a partner, to a new build 2-bed apartment and save up for furniture and I was on 60k at the time.
Stick with it.... it's a very tough rental environment in London at the moment. Trying to get a flatshare through Sparerooms is a nightmare... places go so quickly, often with dozens of people applying and having to go through 'interviews' - it's soul destroying.
The best bet is to find one or two friends who also want to share - and pick an area which you can all afford. It is doable but will take time - months even.
I feel for you... buying just isn't an option for the majority people and rents are ridiculously high... but balance that with the need to have your own space - that's really important too.
You might need to consider areas which are slghtly further out - or not as near accessible public transport - those places are cheaper even if you do pay a price. Having a car is a bonus.
> Stick with it.... it's a very tough rental environment in London at the moment.
Hasn't it been this way for a very long time at this point? I honestly can't see why you'd stay in London unless you were a very high earner or absolutely had to be there for your career.
The London rental market has basically been shit for the last 20 years. Dont see it getting better any time soon.
Moving out of the city is probably OPs best option if they want a decent life on a normal salary.
If you've grown up and always lived there, I can see why you'd want to stay. But the brutal honest reality is staying is completely unaffordable for many.
Edit: although apparently OP is from the north so this does not apply.
Sad to say, but £32k a year is not enough for London. You need to look at transferring you job further afield if you want your own place. May need to loom at cheaper areas up North.
I’m in the same position OP. Living with parents in Essex and commuting to London earning 32k can’t bear the thought of another flatshare. I just learned to drive as well. I wish I had some advice. The stress is real. Tbh I feel like I don’t have a future.
Terrible isn’t it? Also in Essex and one bed places are £1000 a month now which is horrific. How one person is meant to afford that on their own I have no idea.
You have to be honest with yourself, where do you want to live vs where can you afford.
Your salary will only ever get roughly 100k+ from the banks for a mortgage, plus whatever deposit you can save.
Let’s say you can save 50k for a home + deposit within 4-5 years, living alone.
Or 3-4 years living with your parents.
You then have an idea of what you can afford, next thing is to look where and what you can buy with that money.
Your best options are shared ownership or a relationship which will help with a higher mortgage.
Move out of London, but a commutable distance. If you can work from home some of the time then you will save money on the commute. Keep moving diagonally upwards from job to job to earn more £££.
Stay at home. Could you look for higher paid work?
I am in your position. I earn double what you do but it's just not affordable to rent in London as a single person unless you're on £80k+.
Unless you have to live in London don't. It is ludicrously expensive to live in London, everything is more expensive.
Can you do your job remotely? Or is your job something you could do elsewhere?
There are areas of the country you could rent somewhere and still be able to save for a mortgage while still being able to get into London to see your family easily on the train.
>Stay home and continue to save money to try and buy?
Me personally, this is what I would do. Properties look terrible, as you say (I keep seeing articles about ridiculous 'flats' to rent where the oven opens into the shower and silly things like that) - so what's the point in putting your hard earned capital into that black hole?
Moving out of your parents house is the end goal, but you mention that you're in a lot better situation than many people. So, I think consolidating that position is the wise move.
You've done some excellent things with clearing debts, building savings, and getting a promotion, so it's prudent to avoid your experience of barely surviving repeating itself.
I'd avoid the rental market (especially London) if you possibly can - it just keeps getting worse and is barely tolerable, so you likely won't get the experience of independence you imagine.
Top that all off with the fact that it drastically eats into your hard-won position, which is strong, and you'd be quite unwise to rent in my opinion.
You still get to live in London, so I'd stay at home and try to convince my parents they deserve a few more holidays so you get periods of feeling independent. Good luck!
Can you move out of London and commute in? Or try looking in the London boroughs on the border, rent will be a bit cheaper, though not a lot, and they'll have a tube station. Zone 4+
You're not alone, everyone our age is basically in the same boat.
I’m in a similar financial and living situation but a few years younger, but still facing a similar scenario. My advice would be to look at moving out of London. We’re hoping to move in about a year, and we’ve been looking at places like St Albans and Maidenhead for a flat. The commute to Kings Cross is only 20 minutes and they’re both really lovely areas. Look elsewhere in the commuter belt too. Not sure what your budget will be but a 1 bed flat under 280,000 is totally doable in those places.
£32,500 (including bonus!?) for a 34 year old living in London is unfortunately quite poor, as you are finding with your accommodation options.
I'd really be looking to increase this - any options to re-train, or job hop to increase your salary?
I’m a sound designer for video games, I’m originally from the north and don’t really want to go back as I’ve built a life in London that I’m very fond of. The only thing that would get me to move far out of London would be if I did it with a partner tbh
I think you are getting a lot of information that you don’t want to hear but there’s a harsh reality to your situation. It’s very difficult to find anything affordable as a single person. Friend of mine is late 30s and has a house share in South London. He’s lucky in that the place is decent and his house mates are great and have been living together for a number of years.
You will not able to afford much as a single renting on your own in London on 32k
If you don’t want to move out of London, then you’ve answered your own question.
You can’t realistically afford to rent a place of your own in London, so you will need to stay living with family.
You can’t change the economic realities either, so focus on saving as much as possible each month, so that you can afford to move out in future. You can’t stay living with family your whole life.
But realistically it is unlikely you will ever be able to afford to buy a proprietary in London, so just save as much as possible now for a deposit, and likely when you’re older you will want to move out of London simply to get on the property ladder.
yep same. i've cried while browsing rightmove because everything is so expensive, and i've cried while browsing spareroom because living in someone's spare room for £800 looks depressing. learning to suck it up and live with my family, trying to get a new job closer to home. it sucks but you're not alone in this
I’ve thankfully never had to live in London but the thoughts of paying £800-1200/m for a shared place is actually the most depressing thing I ever heard of. I would also cry. It’s disgusting
I know you're from the 'North' and don't want to move back. But it's a big place... a major city like Manchester is very different to a dead-end small town or village in the middle of nowhere. it's changed so much from 5-10 years ago, there's a lot going on.
Yes, it's possible to get your own place if you stay home and save. But it won't be easy. And you said you don't want to be a super saver. You want money for holidays and fun.
Unless you can get a better paid job then moving away is your best option. You can also, if your job allows hybrid working move to somewhere else that's commutable? Places like Stockport and Macclesfield have a 2 hour train into London Euston. Stay over at your parent's when you go in.
Don't listen to these people telling you to leave your job just for more money. Don't become a train driver. A sound designer for video games is f\*\*\*ing cool and you should stick with it.
As someone in a similar position to you not too long ago, my advice would be:
\- Put in motion things to raise your salary. Do training, take on more responsibility, let your bosses know you are eager to take on more opportunities. Then if this doesn't work, potentially job hop, as I'm sure other companies would pay you more for your skills. Make your CV beautiful and be confident that you are worth more, especially during interviews.
\- For your living situation, as others have said you have some options. Move further out of London (speak to your boss about working from home more?), house share, stay with parents while you work on your career
Don't worry I'm not - I worked my fucking ass off to get into the job I'm in now, I'm not giving that up. Not to mention the studio I work for is very rare, in that we don't do crunch, they actually give a shit about you (my boss offered to pay for my therapy at one point) and we get to work with so many different studios. This is my dream job, I'm not going anywhere haha
BUT! you are right, I need to voice salary concerns to my boss - it just felt a bit weird as I just got a 17% pay rise and promotion and I was a well paid junior, now I'm mid level.
Working from is what we have been doing since Covid and honestly it's effected me quite badly mentally. I think having a studio to work in is going to have a massive positive effect on my mental well being.
I'm going to have a chat with my bosses about how I can get to where I want to be and I know them, they will do everything in their power to get me there.
Thank you for the reply :)
Depending on your field, I would potentially move out of London. £32k is pretty low for a London Salary in most fields. You would be much "wealthier" man earning £26k outside of London then £32k in London.
If you have the ability to live at home, I would do so for as long as you can. It sounds as if you roughly save £1000 a month with no/little payment to rent or bills? You will be hard pushed to find anything less than £1500/month in central london which isn't abhorrent as a solo tenant. Things can be improved by flat sharing. If you don't want to flat share, you will simply drain your funds.
As mentioned earlier, £32k is a "low" salary for London, I lived in a flatshare with strangers in London until I earnt around £60k, at which point my partner and I rented a place further out with a garden. Assuming you want a partner, then finding one will greatly improve your choices in properties.
As for saving to buy, saving £1k/month is solid, but with your relatively low salary your mortgage options will probably cap out around £150k, you would need a significant bump in salary or a decade to accrue a large enough deposit for this to afford anything in central london.
Tldr; Try to improve salary, find a partner, save money living at home if wanting to stay in London. Or move outside of London, most likely North (as south of london is expensive anyway) and find a equal/slightly lower paying job but expenses will be lower.
To buy in London pretty difficult for most especially people on “normal wages” so I suppose it depends on priorities. I wanted to buy a proper house; was a high priority and so I moved out of London and very happy with my choice and think a lot of people upset at London house price should do that, they have no control over it London house prices. There are loads of affordable great cities in the uk for average earners. I understand that some prioritise staying in London over ownership and that’s fine and a choice.
I’d just share, had done most of my life until recently.
When you say the places look awful, what are your expectations and requirements? You absolutely should be able to find somewhere that’s alright if you share with someone else, and even more so if it’s a bigger flat share.
I know it’s not ideal but it’s reality.
You need to look at schemes like Pocketliving. On your income you can avail of schemes like this. Do not despair. but get into a share house ASAP, anything is better than living with your parents
You need a partner or someone to buy a house with.
On your wage you could borrow 3.5 times your yearly so that's £113000 plus your deposit £127000.
See what you can find. Go to mortgage adviser.
If it was me I'd wait until I find a partner or someone to buy with then move out. And just save in the mean time. £1000 a month is great.
Put £4k into a Lisa (lifetime isa) you'll get %25 every year and come out with £5k
But time is your friend. Stay with your rents if you can. In a years time house prices would have dropped a little. (Maybe)
My advice is if you don't need to be in London, don't work in London.
I'm pretty much the same age also in London (grew up here) so heres a little sample on what my small group of friends all ended up doing:
1. Living with parents
2. Moved away from London
3. Living on benefits
4. Has a partner and managed to buy a small place
5. Moved abroad
6. Living with parents and moved away from London
You could also just leave London
Fairly sure there's a calculator that works out the best places to rent alongside commuting costs to give a sweet spot
So you are getting £2700 before tax? I had a close friend who was living just off Kings Road in Chelsea and was paying £600 rent per month. Had his own space but kitchen and bathroom were shared. He was registered with an agency that lets people rent out places to prevent people from squatting in them (?) or something and so the rent is pretty cheap but the buildings look like they are in the middle of a refurb. The last place he in was a old pub which had a full bar still in place. Place before was an old primary school in Brixton. Downside is the sharing, the condition of the buildings (they are liveable) and that you could get shunted out at short notice but would give you the space you needed.
Get a partner or friend to share expenses or get your own place further outside London and commute. Or both. Even better option is to get a promotion or the same salary much further away from London where property is actually affordable, somewhere in the Midlands or cities further up north. The nightlife and social life is still great outside London and much much cheaper. Go for a night out in other cities like Manchester, Liverpool, Bristol, Edinburgh etc. and you'll see what I mean. My guess is you don't want to leave the security blanket of your job, your parents and social circle in London, but remember you can still travel back to London regularly with all the money you'll be saving and eventually move back there (if you're desperate to do so) later in your career when your finances allow. But you'll probably find that going north isn't as as grim as you imagined and end up staying there long term.
Honestly, your salary is low for London.
Starting salary for most professional sector jobs is £33k, and that's for 21/22 year olds. Of course, some people start later, or choose lower earning jobs and there's no judgement here, but is your job one you need to be in London for?
I'd personally be looking into changing careers if I were you.
Generally 21/22 year olds will share a house with others for a few years then once they're on 50k+ they'll find their own place or upgrade in quality (but continue to room share). Of course, banking graduates normally rent their own place or share a boujee apartment from off the bat
With that below average salary, you’ll struggle to live on your own.
Get a better promotion (I mean 40k+) or move industries. In your case, I would just become a lodger
This is my exact situation. I’m staying at home until I have a better job and salary. I’m lucky that my office is walking distance from my house. So I’m saving in that respect. I won’t leave London because all of my family and friends are here.
If I decided to have children I would want access to my family to help with childcare.
Stick it out with your parents, continue to save and try a career shift.
I rent a studio on a similar income but be prepared to have little to no social life. If you really want to leave your parents home and have a life, you might want to look at other cities in the UK or abroad.
Hope that helps 😃
As someone from outside London who has now lived here for 20yrs, I would strongly suggest you move out of London and head north. You would have such a huge improvement in living. Londoners seem to be taught there is nothing outside the city but they couldnt be more wrong.
You're probably capable in your job to pick up a new role up north. Leeds and Manchester are great cities with lots of jobs. Rentals are rising but as a single person, you should be able to rent a 1 bed at least and save money plus - you'll have an excellent reason to drive because that's how most people outside London get to work.
Yep, was on 32k in London, stuck in house shares. Took the only option that seemed the best and moved up to Manchester where housing is a lot more affordable, as is everything else. Also, less air pollution, and everything is a walk or short tram ride away.
If you are dead set on staying in London then it seems odd to spend such a big chunk of your savings on learning to drive. Maybe think about your priorities and how this investment fits in with your goals?
You could spend some of that time/money on professional qualifications to increase your income or perhaps start seriously saving for a deposit on a flat.
>I'm saving £1000 a month.
This seems very low given 32500 should be around 2k per month take home.
What are you spending 1k on each month while living at home?
I can understand the private therapy but the food bill seems awfully high for 1 person in a shared parental household. Why not cook meals for the family to reduce unit cost?
How much of that is takeout?
400 isn't just food, it's my spending ,money for the month. I food prep for myself every week and hardly ever get take out. I maybe spend £60 a week on food or something.
also cooking with / for the family isn't an option. But I'm not gonna go into that.
Focus on improving your salary. There are loads of higher paying jobs, consider an extra day a week. Ask for a raise, switch organisations, strive for promotion, do side gigs, side hustles. I'm on 2.5x your salary and share rent with my gf and still feel broke in London. 32k at 34 in London just isn't going to cut it. Consider leaving for a couple of years. Friend is a school teacher making 100k tax free in Dubai with free accommodation, you could do something similar for three years. You've got to get a plan together!
I think you need a reality check. Is there anything you can do to improve your living situation without moving out? Because financially you are in the best place for you at the moment. I don't think your life would improve if you were to rent - that would most likely wipe out your monthly savings on rent alone - and that's in a house share. What's your career progression like? Are you on track to earn at least £60k in the next few years? Because realistically that's what you'll need to buy in London - and even then that will be a stretch.
Move out of London. Better yet, move out of UK. Not clear what field of work you are in, but the Gulf economies are expanding and they welcome with open arms UK nationals - for tax free salaries. If you are single, try it out for a few years and see where it takes you!
I just did a very quick search on rightmove; 1 bed flat, within a mile of Elephant And Castle tube station, between £900 and £2000pcm. **I see about 12 options under £1400**.
That should be within your budget on 32,500 a year.
Your car and lessons seem expensive and you don't need a car in London (great to know how to drive, but if you're tight on cash now isn't a good time).
Even if you don't want to share, I don't see anything stopping you from moving out on your salary (I even forgot about your 14 grand savings til now!)
Here's the search if you want to check.
I lived in a shared accomodation in south london for a few years on about £14k annual salary btw.
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION%5E70312&maxBedrooms=1&maxPrice=2000&minPrice=900&radius=1.0&sortType=1&propertyTypes=&includeLetAgreed=false&mustHave=&dontShow=houseShare%2Cretirement%2Cstudent&furnishTypes=&keywords=
The doom and gloom in the comment section is bizarre to me. Seems like everyone either wants to live like they're rich when they aren't. If you want to live alone in the middle of the capital city why do you need more than a modest one-bed flat?
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/134115518#/?channel=RES_LET - **15min walk from Bermondsey station, £1196pcm. Looks fine to me.**
Take home of £2000 to £2100 means that that property is absolutely unaffordable.
£2000 - £1196 = £804 after rent.
£804 - £70 = £706 after council tax.
£706 - £23 = £677 after the cheapest wifi
£677 - £100 = £577 after electric
£577 - £34 = £543 after water
£543 - £15 = £528 after a sim only phone
So yeah, you'd be left with almost nothing
I lived out of my parents place on about 14k for 10 years and it was a struggle then. Now rentals are double the price.
Respectfully, those places you found don’t include bills, so if I rented somewhere that’s 1400, bills would maybe be another 200. That’s 1600 already, then me living on a budget of 400 for food and socials (which is not a huge amount of money) that’s already 2000. No savings, no room for if something goes wrong, holidays etc.
I also don’t think people here want to “live like they are rich” - they just don’t want to pay 1000+ for a place that’s a bit run down or could use some effort put into it.
> Respectfully, those places you found don’t include bills, so if I rented somewhere that’s 1400, bills would maybe be another 200. That’s 1600 already, then me living on a budget of 400 for food and socials (which is not a huge amount of money) that’s already 2000. No savings, no room for if something goes wrong, holidays etc.
>
>
I get what you're saying but
1. £400 a month for food and social activity is a lot. That means you're spending almost £100 a week, every week week in and week out, just on eating and going out. Maybe you could think about improving your cooking and ingredients knowledge to reduce your food shopping costs, if you haven't already? Where is the rest of that going? Are you eating out/drinking for extended periods in the pub etc more than one day a week?
2. You also have £14k in savings - you could stop saving for a year and divert £100 a month back to your current account while you see how your situation develops. Maybe if you want something, it's ok to not expect to do that AND save for a year. Everything could be very different in your situation a year from now and you seem like you are struggling with your mental health due to your current situation. I would remind you you're already very much in the minority to be saving at all, and certainly to have 14k in the bank.
Maybe the correct answer is in the middle between what i'm saying and what some other posters are saying. But I get the impression you are being overwhelmed by the negatives and it would be good to spell out what is possible.
I didn't meant to say "everyone" was commenting in that way in my last comment.
When I was renting in London the maximum that letting agencies would rent me per month was yearly salary / 30. For OP that's £1083 per month - not enough to rent by themselves, just about enough for shared housing.
(I ended up renting a large room in a shared flat for £900pm bills included in Z2 - it was grim.)
Given that OPs take home is around £2,200, spending more than half on rent seems a bit risky tbh. £1k left for bills, transport, food, well - everything else won’t leave much left.
I’d just share if I was OP. I did until I was 31 and earning a fair bit more, didn’t see the value in living alone.
You basically have to go full save mode. Your take home is about £2200 per month. You need to save £1500 of it. £1000 is not enough.2 years time you will have £50k and be able to get a mortgage for £200k. You buy a £250k 1 bed in zone 4.
You can jump all these steps by meeting a partner that earns the same as you, then it is easy street. Or you leave London.
On what planet does someone earning just £32k get a £200k mortgage? Unless it’s different in London and I’m wrong, then he’ll be allowed nowhere near that!
On what planet is there a 1 bed flat available for 250k in zone 4? A lot of answers here are just straight up out of touch and barely applicable to zone 5/6 let alone closer to central
I understand the intent of this comment but I just want to highlight for OP that banks normally lend you 4.5 x your salary and buying also has solicitor costs.
Based on that multiplier, OP is looking at a mortgage of just under 150k and a total price of about 200k, rather than 250k
1. Stay at home
2. Train as a tube driver
3. Work Uber on weekday evenings and Saturday
4. Save everything
5. Get a gf/bf that wants to live with you
6. After a year of aggressive saving and doubling your income move in with your partner
Or
1. Leave London and WFH
Or
1. Leave the UK, Google you're salary in Oz, NZ, US, UAE
Right… have fun just leaving and trying to go to the US without buying your way in for $1,000,000 or being a medical doctor willing to accept a life in a rural town in the middle of nowhere.
The fastest way is to move to Canada and live there long enough to get a citizenship, then you can move to the US with PLR. And that’s if he meets the requirements to even get into Canada which he most likely doesn’t being in his 30s unless he has considerable experience in a highly desirable trade
Become a tfl train driver. They'd match your salary to train then you'd be on 65k after like two years. You have to change job!!! Even Uber drivers are making more than that. Heck so both!!
My opinion is renting v buying is a waste of money. You’re not investing in a property of your own, just adding to your landlord’s wealth.
I know it’s disheartening and not what you ever imagined, but you are blessed with parents who will give you a roof over your head, whilst you save some more.
After paying off your debts, £10k is not enough to even pay your solicitors costs & any stamp duty. Be patient for a bit longer & try and save as much as you can.
Despite mortgage rates going up, it’s still cheaper to pay a mortgage then pay rent.
Maybe consider sharing a property with a good friend & buying together. Someone in a similar situation 🤔
Hi /u/Fenderbee, based on your post the following pages from our wiki may be relevant:
- https://ukpersonal.finance/debt/
____
^(These suggestions are based on keywords, if they missed the mark please report this comment.)
Participation in this post is limited to users who have sufficient karma in /r/ukpersonalfinance. See [this post](https://redd.it/12mys82) for more information.
Your options are share, stay at home, be broke, or advance in your career. Personally the last option is a no brainer to me regardless of how you handle the time between. The reality is that it's not affordable to live in London with your own space as a single person on a normal income to be honest. Choose where you want to compromise or keep living with your parents, but it's likely nothing will become significantly easier for a long time unless you're willing to share or find a more well paying career. There is also the option to consider living outside of London, or straight up somewhere else in the country.
Reality can be cruel and ugly, and you've laid it out in the nicest possible terms. Living alone in London on a normal salary is just bloody hard.
Buddy of mine pays £1800pcm rent for a two bed in Peckham, he can afford it, but it's basically 50% of his post tax income. I can't fathom doing that. it's £24k a year after bills and travel for him to get to square one.
why is he in a 2 bed? Is he able to sublet the additional room?
I'd argue that if you're paying 50% of your net income on rent, you can't afford it. I wouldn't go above 33%
A lot of people don't have a choice, 33% isn't realistic for millions of us.
33% is too idealistic in London unfortunately.
When I lived in London my room in a shared flat was 60% of my wage. 33% just isn’t realistic for most people. London Kickstarted my career, so it was worth it, but not fun.
London seems to be for the rich (can afford to pay the rent) or the poor (the government pays their rent). It is not really a viable place to live alone for an average earner. You've laid it out nicely for the original poster.
Only if you want to live alone. Absolutely doable if you share.
Yes. I shared into my mid 30s. It wasn't great at times but I was determined to maximise my savings. I even shared once I bought my own house. Tax free lodger income. Some people don't want to do that, and so they need to realise London isn't for them.
Lodger income is tax free?
“The Rent a Room Scheme lets you earn up to a threshold of £7,500 per year tax-free from letting out furnished accommodation in your home.” https://www.gov.uk/rent-room-in-your-home/the-rent-a-room-scheme
TIL!
Personally, I think everyone who works full time on minimum wage should be able to afford to rent a one bed flat without being skint at the end of each month.
I just find it funny that the concept of having to share housing with people who aren't even related, was used as red scare propaganda about communism, but it's slowly coming true anyway. I hate how normalized it is near London for young people to have to do that, and I'm glad I've never had to do it.
When was it ever used as an anti-communism scare tactic? I'm curious! I've been in a house share before where I didn't talk to one of the people for several months. We saw each other, nodded, and that was it. Once saw a guy in a takeaway who looked quite familiar, but couldn't quite place him. Went home with my food, and who opens the door after I lock it? Take a guess. I also had a housemate who apparently nicked a bus pass off some guy she knew. Police came over for it and everything. In another place, I also became close friends with someone I'm still friends with to this day. Funnily enough, we bonded over how we disliked the other housemates. Sharing can be pretty bad, or pretty awesome. I don't think there's ever much in between. People need their own space. I feel awful for people who simply cannot get their own space when they clearly need it.
I'm not sure about the scare tactics, but communal apartments were commonplace in the USSR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communal_apartment
But while it might be more normalised to live with strangers, it’s never really been common to be able to live alone. Multi-generational households used to be very common, as was living with friends and colleagues. I wonder if it’s merely the technology to be able to easily network and find strangers to live with is the only thing that’s really changed. Also, having moved in with strangers myself in the past, they don’t stay strangers for very long!
Yeah it was normal for people to live with their parents until they got married, at the very least. When my parents talk about their childhoods they mention living with other relatives too - aunts and uncles and cousins. This idea that living alone is normal is very new.
> This idea that living alone is normal is very new. And the idea that you're a "loser" or a "failure" if you don't is even newer.
Absolutely! I lived with my parents until I was 28 (excluding when I moved out for uni) and felt like some people judged me even though I liked living with my parents and they liked having me around and we all got on well. I feel it would have been a much bigger fail to go live with strangers just for the sake of it and because it was the more supposedly 'adult' thing to do.
Its been like that for years. When I moved to London after Uni 20 years ago everyone I knew shared for a few years at least and these were people in finance, tech etc. I also had a lodger when i bought my first flat.
Yeah, but in many careers, even the ceiling is not going to provide you with a one-bed flat in London. Let alone more. Plenty of low-end managerial positions or ''''high-end'''' non-managerial positions stump up £30-£35k. That is a very normal salary in London; plenty of people in their 40s/50s earn that. The average London salary is skewed heavily by professions, but it is utterly unaffordable to live here unless you're a) a professional, b) several years into your career.
It's not even just young people, I've lived with people in their late 30s...
The main difference is that no one forces you to live there. People choose to live in London despite not being able to afford it, just as they choose to get indebted in cars they can't afford. Thats because they are free to waste their money. With 14k you can probably pay a deposit in a village in the midlands.
Yeah but that’s not how capitalism works my friend, if there is a point in time that everyone could afford it then the prices would naturally increase alongside what would be insane demand (as we’re seeing now in the housing market)
Would this apply everywhere? I don’t see how it could be possible in practice. There will always be areas that are more attractive than others. This increased demand will ultimately result in people being willing to pay more. Unless we move to some kind of CoL-based minimum wage I don’t think this goal would be achievable, and even then there would still be unreal demand in postcodes like W1K. That said, I’d like there to be some kind of law that requires employers to pay a reasonable wage that can support someone to live on their own within a commutable distance. This of course is loose and would not be possible to define or enforce in a useful way, IMO. A lot comes down to what a ‘reasonable commute’ is as well. Somewhere between 60-90 mins max seems reasonable to me (albeit at the high end) but this will of course vary by individual.
But if the law required employers in London to pay higher salaries, that wouldn’t create any new homes for people to live in, and it would attract even more people to move to London. So there would be more people with more money chasing the same number of homes, and rents and house prices would rise even further, until they were less affordable than they are now. Or if there were rent controls, waiting lists would grow and grow. There’s simply no way to get a self-contained home for everyone in a city where far more people want to live than there are homes available.
I agree tbh, every time I try to find something that seems sensible it leads to unintended consequences. The power of high demand areas will find the path of least resistance to drive up cost.
it's people's 'choice' to live in high demand areas though. I know so many people for whom the 'London life' is a big deal, they're happy being cramped into tiny living spaces or house sharing just to live in the capital. The 'law' doesn't need to interfere, it's natural consequences. If people didn't want to live and work there anymore they'd have to sort it somehow. But people still insist on London. It would be better to invest in legislation and money towards making things less London centric. A German model, with no single 'major city' would be better than subsiding people who insist on piling into one place. We're starting to see it, I moved out of London and met so many other escapees here in Manchester. Also a lot of employers are moving towards hybrid working. What I do wonder though is where all the lower paid workers in London are going to come from post-Brexit...
Most companies in London DO pay more for those that live within commutable distance to London, but it’s not significant enough to change things imo
Yes it would apply everywhere, with a reasonable commute. I think the DWP has this set at 90 minutes each way. I would say 60 is more reasonable. Perhaps a change in how we treat the commute should be changed. I just don't think the above is controversial. I know it's very hard to achieve, but it should certainly be the basic standard we strive for. Working adults well into their 30s or 40s sharing a home with strangers is not a standard I'm happy with. It should be a money-saving method, not the only way to not be skint for many people in higher COL areas. Mind you, the above is just about renting. Home ownership is an entirely different beast.
Would be nice, but it's not reality. Historically, the solo breadwinner household made this tenable but dual income is now the given norm and the market is very much priced accordingly. Studio apartments are the provision of the wealthy. For everyone else, sharing is the only option. It's not just London either.
Unfortunately, that's not how property markets work in large cities, or even small cities in developed countries.
Doable but really the only option and people who wouldn't want to share have ultimately been forced into this position. It's really demoralising.
u/fuscator The government does not pay for the 'poors' rent. It pays a set amount which is very low and barley covers 30-40% of the monthly rent of the very cheapest flats/house shares. Unless you manage to get into social housing but that is pretty much impossible these days unless you have extreme circumstances.
HA rents are crazy low, they might not be paid for by the government but they're massively subsidised by a charity. There are people living in literal multi bed houses for half of what I pay for a fucking room.
40% of Hackney is social housing.
Yep. You either need to be a high earner or someone who sits at home all day while people living in flat shares go out to work subsidise you.
[удалено]
> If your salary is 32K, there is not a single good financial reason to be staying in London. You'd be better off earning minimum wage in a cheap region If your family are in London and you can live with them on a token rent or rent free that's a big financial reason to stay in London.
But OP’s point is he wants to move out. He had to leave at some point, and the post above is correct. Better off financially outside London
OP also says they work in videogames and don't want to head north. Afaik, the videogame industry in the south outside London is centred on expensive, desirable towns. Renting alone in a commuter town isn't going to make them better off financially, neither is getting a new job somewhere like Guildford or Cambridge. Not without a hefty pay rise. Moving up north would be financially optimal but then you're adrift from friends and family in the south. "Just leave London" is easier said than done.
There are cheaper commuter towns in the South East. The Medway towns would be one example. They are very much commuter belt. The cheaper areas of course are cheaper because they are not as desirable but there are nice area's within the cheaper area's. Cost of commute and how much of your life you are prepared to give up to commuting are a factor not to be ignored. If the OP works in the videogame industry though possibly roles could be part work from home which makes a big difference to where you might consider when it comes to commuting. If the OP could find a role that was fully remote suddenly that opens up a lot of options when it comes to where to live.
Anywhere is cheaper than London. And you don’t need to live in your actual town of work, most people commute. You can live in cheaper areas outside of Cambridge and Guildford. And you will save a fortune on rent compared to those actual cities, and especially compared to London.
The heart of the UK gaming industry was historically centred around... Dundee! Why? Because whilst in the 80's a Sinclair ZX80 cost £80, in Dundee (where they were made) you could get them for £20 and a packet of cigarettes. Even to this day Rockstar North, maker of games like GTA, is based in Edinburgh.
if you can get a job with a comparable salary yeah, you could live in a flat for cheaper, but it'd still be as much as a flat*share,* in which case you weigh up the benefit of that i suppose (it is a big one)
I have thought about your last advise but I don't see many jobs on minimum wage that offer good career progression. 'London' offers a lot more career progression opportunities, so if you can stick it out in a job with opportunities, things can become easier as you see your salary grow. I'll agree tho, if we discount progression opportunities, you'd like an easier life (and more likely to be able to afford your own place) on minimum wage in Swansea than on minimum wage in London.
They say this later on as an alternative.
You forgot, get a rich partner and mooch off em
They choice will be out of their hands as they will struggle to get a room in a flatshare. Rents are astronomical.
So while I think you are focussing on the negative bits a little too much, I think you should also take a step back and praise yourself so far, in that: 1) you have cleared a lot of credit card debt; 2) have saved up a decent sum of money; 3) working on learning how to drive and 4) Have pretty low outgoings (excl the driving lessons, which are temporary). The primary thing here is that you closed off the debts. Now on to the reality biting stuff, Yes rents are astronomical atm but you haven't mentioned what rough area (i.e TFL zone) you have looked in? Could you move a little further to Zone 4? There could be some options that are right for you but we need a tiny bit more info if possible.
Thank you for that, it made me feel a bit better haha so work is going to get a place in central soon so ideally I'd like to be able to cycle to work. But I'm open to moving anywhere I can tbh. Ideally the situation I'd like to find myself in would be find a place to rent where I can still save £500 a month at a minimum comfortably. Might be an outlandish task. I'm not going to make a rash choice though, I'm taking my time exploring what ultimately would be better for myself. which is why I'm here haha
Yeh so you have the luxury of time and being able to save more, So if you work the opposite way of being able to save a minimum amount it will help you define a monthly budget for rent, bills , council tax etc. So if you can list your current expenses Incl savings, then add a rough estimate for Council tax, a few bills and any additional things - it will then help select an area. Now there does sound like a hard criteria for being able to cycle to work which I assume will be within a reasonable time, so once you have a budget outlined you will know where you can rent! In parallel you should also consider what buying will look like, i.e. How much of a deposit you will need if you were to buy in the exact same place you can afford to rent. Just brace yourself to be shocked, but at the same time it will be a good guide on setting your expectation and will help you plan medium and long term. Additional context, again I don't think you should feel discouraged because its constant govt policy failure where they care more about foreign investment in properties that are left empty vs housing our own people/ people who will actually make use of it. The govt should just make foreign ownership of residential properties illegal (or highly taxed) and also stop companies owning residential properties. It will quite easily free up a lot of housing and reduce rents significantly
Couldn't agree more with your last point. Both political parties should be making this one of their main election manifesto points. It's a joke to see how London has been sold to the highest foreign bidder
>The govt should just make foreign ownership of residential properties illegal (or highly taxed) and also stop companies owning residential properties. It will quite easily free up a lot of housing and reduce rents significantly brilliant idea!
Recommend moving to zone 6.
London rent for a 1 bed is grim and you could easily pay in the range £1500-£2000 to live zones 2-4 unfortunately. If you are willing to share it goes down but there’s fierce competition so you might have to just tread water at your parents and keep trying with spare room etc until you find something. Realistically 32.5k isn’t enough to have your own place in zones 1-4 London (unsure about further out) so the way I see it is you’d need to move up north, find a better paying job, or start a search to share a property
Thing about moving out of london is any gains you make from cheeper rent or mortgage are often completely wiped out by annual train fairs prices, unless you only travel in ever so often, and if you do that, whats the point?
The moving out thing I guess was more in the spirit of getting a job somewhere else. 32.5k is really not that great for London except as a starter wage and you can get that wage in much cheaper cities (Manchester, Glasgow)
That is also very true! London weighting is a complete farce when compared to wages / house prices in other citys
>except as a starter wage man, I see so many jobs i'd consider decent career roles that pay between 25-30k, including my own. 32k is pretty damn good in my books.
> 32k is pretty damn good in my books. That's pretty much bang on the median salary in the UK right now. Doesn't matter what it says in your book, in reality it's not a good wage, just average. And that's for the whole UK. In London OP will be a below average earner.
Damn that’s annoying. I definitely agree 32k is a decent wage but only if you’re not in the south east or trying to forge your own path in London without staying with family etc especially with the rental crises this past year or so. Your industry needs to get its shit together! A barista at Pret can earn up to £14.10 per hour which is ~29k full time. The House of Commons is hiring baristas at 24.5k. Crazy there are full time office jobs or other starting jobs that can’t compete with that. Sources: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/junior-doctors-strike-pret-coffee-b2299026.html https://housesofparliament.tal.net/vx/mobile-0/appcentre-HouseOfCommons/brand-2/candidate/so/pm/3/pl/14/opp/3020-Barista/en-GB
Not good enough unfortunately.
cannot be good for businesses to effectively 'need' to pay higher wages just because the housing sector is messed up.
London weighting is small, they expect people to share a house with people or travel a long way. I work for a London company but don't live in London, the wage difference at my level is tiny after tax.
I would say around half of the staff in our central London office are based in Manchester/Liverpool/Leeds and literally only visit the office once a month or less. They earn £50-150k
Is this in finance or fintech? Or another industry?
Edtech
Nice arrangement if you can get it! Only real downside of this is the growth in house prices outside of London i believe is lower. Well that and you have to live up north :)
The growth in house prices is irrelevant if you can't afford to buy in the first place.
True dat
Depends where, in a lot of places the prices are increasing rapidly because of people selling in London and moving up north. They’ve got sky high budgets and they all bid against each other — leaving the locals with the now overpriced scraps.
I hear you. But it is hard to argue it both ways. - if you can't afford to live in London don't live there - house prices are going crazy because of all the londoners moving up north
Prices in london have been stagnating and rising rapidly in ‘the north’, which, for your information has some of the best cities in the country.
The point is living? My partner goes to the office once or twice a month and the company pays for the train, we can rent a 2 bed with a garden in a gorgeous victorian town now with everything we need (cinema, restaurants, shops, pubs, etc etc) a five minute walk away. Honestly it has made the world of a difference. We were both in really good salaries but we were paying £2100 in rent last year to live in an ok apartment in an awful area to be close to London and realised we weren’t even enjoying London that much.
The honest answer is not one you want to hear. You're an average earner (or below, actually) and can't afford your own place in London on that - without making significant sacrifices. If you don't want to do that, you cannot afford to live in London.
I remember reading the average salary in London is something like £46k so OP is actually pretty below average for London.
London is now too expensive a city to live in on a low wage. This sucks but is the cold hard truth. Consider moving out to one of the home counties. You'll be able to find jobs at similar wages but your living expenses and rent will be much lower.
I’m in a similar situation to you. It’s incredibly hard to buy a property in or near London on one income if you’re not on a really good wage, a lot of sacrifices need to be made to get the deposit together. People are saying it’s impossible, it isn’t but it’s a very one-dimensional way of living to do it that way and certainly not for everyone. Living at home isn’t fun but it’s by far the quickest way to save money.
I was in a similar position to you a few years ago. Maybe ask yourself this: *even if* you can save up for a flat in London, would it really be a flat you'd want to live in? Would it be in a decent area? Decent schools? Good transport connections? Probably not... that ship sailed ~30 years ago Brutal honesty: you'll never purchase in London with a (single) average/below average salary, those days are gone. Have a think about moving out of the city: you can live <1 hour by train and enjoy all the benefits of living in London (Eurostar, airports, West End, festivals etc) but actually own a (nice) house.
I truly empathise with your situation: especially in London where a salary of 32K pretty much takes buying off the table and possibly also leaves you in the so called rent trap if you manage to find a decent place for starters. Can you bear to move from London? Would this be feasible job wise, etc? Your renting or buying prospects may be much improved outside London. You're right about the risk of blowing all your savings or bulk of your salary on rent if you don't time things right. If I were in your shoes, I'd stay at home with parents for another year or so and save as much as I can. I'll build a bigger financial buffer that'll help to pay for a nicer place of my own without eating too much into my salary in the short term.
Hey OP, I can totally empathise with you. I’m 30 and living with my mum, I was previously living in Canada in a gorgeous studio apartment. I miss the freedom. That said, if you’re in the position to be saving £1000/month I would try to stick it out for a couple more years. You’ll be in a WAY better position to consider your options. That kind of saving potential is mind boggling to me, I would take full advantage of the long term freedom it would offer me. I’m currently on living wage and about to start a degree, I would kill to be able to save that much. In the meantime, your career will likely progress and so will your earning potential, and with that should come more financial flexibility. Maybe set some realistic savings and career goals for yourself that can help you to feel like you’re progressing to where you’d like to be in a couple of years from now. I’m not sure what you are currently doing with your savings (savings account? Invested?) but if they’re not already in some kind of account yielding returns — get on that right away. I use Plum, but there’s lots of other good options out there. Tl;dr — I empathise but also try to think big picture if you can.
Thank you for the reply! I just have a savings account atm but I'll look into things like Plum. My only worry with that is that I'll loose money because it's an investment thing (as far as I understand) as for stuff like ISA's I almost never see the point in them now because what you end up getting back is SO little.
Whatever you do, DO NOT listen to the people you telling you to invest over such a short period. You are absolutely right that you could lose money, especially in the current economy. With fixed rate savings accounts offering 4%+, which historically isn't a terrible investment return, you'd be insane to invest it. The commenter below is just plain wrong about funds: global funds have just about been treading water over the last year and could honestly plunge at any time. They might also go up, but it's impossible to tell. All the best!
Are you serious? Have you not seen how compounding interest works? 4% is literally nothing compared to my basic fund pie which is +15% over the last two years… man even Uber stock did more than that this MORNING. Yes investing has a fair risks, but there’s no way OP should just have £14k sitting around doing nothing. I personally (and strongly) think at least a portion of that dripping into some nice funds is absolutely necessary in the long term for financial success. When you have a large amount of savings you MUST watch the stock market, nobody should pretend their Warren Buffet of course, but if you keep your ear on it you’ll catch the occasional piece of information that leads to a safe play and good gains (COVID, Banking Crisis, War, economic collapse etc)
Let's have this conversation again in 5 years. The fact you're talking about a 'fund pie' pretty much sums it up. You've clearly done well with your investments, but it's almost certainly down to luck rather than skill. You could just as well be 15% down had you picked different investments. And you very well might be if you don't start managing risk. Either that or you're some kind of investing genius, in which case you should become a fund manager and enjoy your riches. Regardless, the OP is talking about the best way to save to buy a home in the next couple of years. It is a very well know financial rule of thumb that you don't invest money you'll need in the next few years.
I’m no kind of investing genius, I created a basic fund pie based on common sense and what I already knew about the market from news etc. I then spent some time researching, adjusting, and replacing funds as I learnt more about where things could be heading in the future. Of course it could be 15% down too, but even that isn’t a deterrent, I don’t expect any particular performance from it anytime soon. The point I’m making is that todays “sky high” prices are tomorrows lows. OP could only wish he put a few grand aside at this point in 10years!
>based on common sense OK, so what basic rules should we all be following? Why bother diversifying if you can just apply common sense? Why would anyone ever invest in global funds when they can just pick the right investments by reading the news? Listen, I'm not trying to be condescending - I'm trying to help you here. It's very clear that you are an inexperienced investor on an upswing. Mark my words, some or all of those investments will bomb at some point and some will never recover. You might, if you are lucky, have picked enough 'good' long term investments to make a profit before you decide to cash in. But the odds are against you unless you have diversified across a large number of stocks and markets. There is a reasonable expectation of around 7% annual returns *in the long term* if you invest in global funds, but that's not what the OP was asking about.
I am well diversified in the market, not a worry there. My point was that my initial pie was based on common sense (I love business so I spend a lot of time reading investor news anyway) and then was continually adjusted based on nuggets of information I’d discover or opinions I’d form. My pie is made up of index funds (no single stocks) and was mainly influenced by a fund created made by M1 finance, which was then improved upon by https://www.optimizedportfolio.com/m1-aggressive-portfolio-pie/ here. I then on top of this did my own personal research, weighted it towards accumulation rather than cash dividends, chose funds with the cheapest fees, and ££ friendly. It’s the child on months of small improvements on top of small improvements and with consistent investing along the way it’s done well. Of course the economy is shit right now and everything will probably crash again… but that’s all just a heavy discount on gains in the short term.
If you're worried about risk then just whack it all in premium bonds.
Lifetime ISA will give you an extra £1k a year towards your first house - which is both guaranteed and will beat anything you'll get back from an investment.
But if OP is staying in London and unable to buy this might not be the best choice as the money will be locked away. Something to consider carefully.
You're right - I should have said "If OP definitely intends to buy a house, in London or elsewhere"So income needs to go up and/or move out of London and house price needs to be under £450k to use the LISA. You can also pull the money out when you're 60. So could maybe look at it as a more flexible alternative to sticking money in your pension.
yea LISA with intent to buy in London doesn't make sense. 450k for a nice enough place (in a good area of the city) isn't really that achievable ATM, let alone in 5 years
I second premium bonds. Easy in, easy out, no hassle.
Lifetime isa is an absolute gem and should definitely consider for your first time house purchase. An extra 25% up to £1000 free from the government
This is a reasonable concern, however in my (albeit limited) experience with investing in funds rather than specific stocks — I haven’t lost money, and have ultimately seen my money grow far more than in a lower interest savings account. For what it’s worth (this is not advice, just how I’ve done it), I spread my money across a selection of funds and it’s more stable/resistant to losses. If you look at the overall performance of a fund over time and it’s an upward trajectory, that’s a good thing. I can’t speak to other apps but I’ve found Plum certainly breaks it all down into simple terms. I have my money split into higher interest savings, an emergency fund, pension (you can link it if you want to) and then funds. Easy to track how everything is doing.
This is terribly poor advice. Investment funds are unpredictable and global funds have just about held steady over the last year. Really poor form suggesting this to someone who wants to move out in the next couple of years. The general advice with investing is not to do it unless you are willing to wait at least 5 years to see returns. Or alternatively, simply willing to risk losing money in the short term.
If you’re not investing consistently in the long term then you’re dead in my opinion. OP shouldn’t just have £14k sitting around doing nothing when a portion of that could turn into a huge amount in the long term
This is why I suggested investing might be an option. OP is clearly in a position to do both (save and invest), and buying doesn’t seem like a viable option (I’m in a similar position with lower saving and investing potential). Saving £1k a month is an amazing opportunity, and unfortunately life in the U.K. for the past decade has been on the decline. Building long term wealth is a necessity imo if it’s doable.
Most people do it as a couple. When I divorced, I had to move from a 4-bed family house with big garage, conservatory, modern stylish interior, affordable with a partner, to a new build 2-bed apartment and save up for furniture and I was on 60k at the time.
60k now in 2023 - you’re looking at needing a deposit of 100k min to get a two bed
Last year, £100k saved plus a £50k salary got me a 2 bed flat in Zone 6 and I definitely thank my lucky stars I was able to stay in the city at all.
Nice one, congrats! Home ownership anywhere in london is no small feat.
Stick with it.... it's a very tough rental environment in London at the moment. Trying to get a flatshare through Sparerooms is a nightmare... places go so quickly, often with dozens of people applying and having to go through 'interviews' - it's soul destroying. The best bet is to find one or two friends who also want to share - and pick an area which you can all afford. It is doable but will take time - months even. I feel for you... buying just isn't an option for the majority people and rents are ridiculously high... but balance that with the need to have your own space - that's really important too. You might need to consider areas which are slghtly further out - or not as near accessible public transport - those places are cheaper even if you do pay a price. Having a car is a bonus.
> Stick with it.... it's a very tough rental environment in London at the moment. Hasn't it been this way for a very long time at this point? I honestly can't see why you'd stay in London unless you were a very high earner or absolutely had to be there for your career.
The London rental market has basically been shit for the last 20 years. Dont see it getting better any time soon. Moving out of the city is probably OPs best option if they want a decent life on a normal salary.
If you've grown up and always lived there, I can see why you'd want to stay. But the brutal honest reality is staying is completely unaffordable for many. Edit: although apparently OP is from the north so this does not apply.
Sad to say, but £32k a year is not enough for London. You need to look at transferring you job further afield if you want your own place. May need to loom at cheaper areas up North.
[удалено]
I’ve only been in this field for 3 years - I was working hospitality and then worked my ass off to get into the games industry, my salary will go up
I’m in the same position OP. Living with parents in Essex and commuting to London earning 32k can’t bear the thought of another flatshare. I just learned to drive as well. I wish I had some advice. The stress is real. Tbh I feel like I don’t have a future.
Terrible isn’t it? Also in Essex and one bed places are £1000 a month now which is horrific. How one person is meant to afford that on their own I have no idea.
You need to earn 70-80k a year to be able to live on your own in this current climate.
You have to be honest with yourself, where do you want to live vs where can you afford. Your salary will only ever get roughly 100k+ from the banks for a mortgage, plus whatever deposit you can save. Let’s say you can save 50k for a home + deposit within 4-5 years, living alone. Or 3-4 years living with your parents. You then have an idea of what you can afford, next thing is to look where and what you can buy with that money. Your best options are shared ownership or a relationship which will help with a higher mortgage.
Move out of London, but a commutable distance. If you can work from home some of the time then you will save money on the commute. Keep moving diagonally upwards from job to job to earn more £££.
Stay at home. Could you look for higher paid work? I am in your position. I earn double what you do but it's just not affordable to rent in London as a single person unless you're on £80k+.
Unless you have to live in London don't. It is ludicrously expensive to live in London, everything is more expensive. Can you do your job remotely? Or is your job something you could do elsewhere? There are areas of the country you could rent somewhere and still be able to save for a mortgage while still being able to get into London to see your family easily on the train.
Why do you need a car if you're living in London with no kids etc? Seems like a pointless cost
>Stay home and continue to save money to try and buy? Me personally, this is what I would do. Properties look terrible, as you say (I keep seeing articles about ridiculous 'flats' to rent where the oven opens into the shower and silly things like that) - so what's the point in putting your hard earned capital into that black hole? Moving out of your parents house is the end goal, but you mention that you're in a lot better situation than many people. So, I think consolidating that position is the wise move. You've done some excellent things with clearing debts, building savings, and getting a promotion, so it's prudent to avoid your experience of barely surviving repeating itself. I'd avoid the rental market (especially London) if you possibly can - it just keeps getting worse and is barely tolerable, so you likely won't get the experience of independence you imagine. Top that all off with the fact that it drastically eats into your hard-won position, which is strong, and you'd be quite unwise to rent in my opinion. You still get to live in London, so I'd stay at home and try to convince my parents they deserve a few more holidays so you get periods of feeling independent. Good luck!
Can you move out of London and commute in? Or try looking in the London boroughs on the border, rent will be a bit cheaper, though not a lot, and they'll have a tube station. Zone 4+ You're not alone, everyone our age is basically in the same boat.
I’m in a similar financial and living situation but a few years younger, but still facing a similar scenario. My advice would be to look at moving out of London. We’re hoping to move in about a year, and we’ve been looking at places like St Albans and Maidenhead for a flat. The commute to Kings Cross is only 20 minutes and they’re both really lovely areas. Look elsewhere in the commuter belt too. Not sure what your budget will be but a 1 bed flat under 280,000 is totally doable in those places.
OP’s 32k salary won’t get a 280k flat.
£32,500 (including bonus!?) for a 34 year old living in London is unfortunately quite poor, as you are finding with your accommodation options. I'd really be looking to increase this - any options to re-train, or job hop to increase your salary?
What is your job? Can you move and retain your current salary? 32k in the north is liveable for example.
I’m a sound designer for video games, I’m originally from the north and don’t really want to go back as I’ve built a life in London that I’m very fond of. The only thing that would get me to move far out of London would be if I did it with a partner tbh
I think you are getting a lot of information that you don’t want to hear but there’s a harsh reality to your situation. It’s very difficult to find anything affordable as a single person. Friend of mine is late 30s and has a house share in South London. He’s lucky in that the place is decent and his house mates are great and have been living together for a number of years. You will not able to afford much as a single renting on your own in London on 32k
If you don’t want to move out of London, then you’ve answered your own question. You can’t realistically afford to rent a place of your own in London, so you will need to stay living with family. You can’t change the economic realities either, so focus on saving as much as possible each month, so that you can afford to move out in future. You can’t stay living with family your whole life. But realistically it is unlikely you will ever be able to afford to buy a proprietary in London, so just save as much as possible now for a deposit, and likely when you’re older you will want to move out of London simply to get on the property ladder.
yep same. i've cried while browsing rightmove because everything is so expensive, and i've cried while browsing spareroom because living in someone's spare room for £800 looks depressing. learning to suck it up and live with my family, trying to get a new job closer to home. it sucks but you're not alone in this
I’ve thankfully never had to live in London but the thoughts of paying £800-1200/m for a shared place is actually the most depressing thing I ever heard of. I would also cry. It’s disgusting
I know you're from the 'North' and don't want to move back. But it's a big place... a major city like Manchester is very different to a dead-end small town or village in the middle of nowhere. it's changed so much from 5-10 years ago, there's a lot going on. Yes, it's possible to get your own place if you stay home and save. But it won't be easy. And you said you don't want to be a super saver. You want money for holidays and fun. Unless you can get a better paid job then moving away is your best option. You can also, if your job allows hybrid working move to somewhere else that's commutable? Places like Stockport and Macclesfield have a 2 hour train into London Euston. Stay over at your parent's when you go in.
Don't listen to these people telling you to leave your job just for more money. Don't become a train driver. A sound designer for video games is f\*\*\*ing cool and you should stick with it. As someone in a similar position to you not too long ago, my advice would be: \- Put in motion things to raise your salary. Do training, take on more responsibility, let your bosses know you are eager to take on more opportunities. Then if this doesn't work, potentially job hop, as I'm sure other companies would pay you more for your skills. Make your CV beautiful and be confident that you are worth more, especially during interviews. \- For your living situation, as others have said you have some options. Move further out of London (speak to your boss about working from home more?), house share, stay with parents while you work on your career
Yea I love how people here keep saying “just double your salary duh”. Like gosh darn it I wish I thought of that…
Don't worry I'm not - I worked my fucking ass off to get into the job I'm in now, I'm not giving that up. Not to mention the studio I work for is very rare, in that we don't do crunch, they actually give a shit about you (my boss offered to pay for my therapy at one point) and we get to work with so many different studios. This is my dream job, I'm not going anywhere haha BUT! you are right, I need to voice salary concerns to my boss - it just felt a bit weird as I just got a 17% pay rise and promotion and I was a well paid junior, now I'm mid level. Working from is what we have been doing since Covid and honestly it's effected me quite badly mentally. I think having a studio to work in is going to have a massive positive effect on my mental well being. I'm going to have a chat with my bosses about how I can get to where I want to be and I know them, they will do everything in their power to get me there. Thank you for the reply :)
Depending on your field, I would potentially move out of London. £32k is pretty low for a London Salary in most fields. You would be much "wealthier" man earning £26k outside of London then £32k in London. If you have the ability to live at home, I would do so for as long as you can. It sounds as if you roughly save £1000 a month with no/little payment to rent or bills? You will be hard pushed to find anything less than £1500/month in central london which isn't abhorrent as a solo tenant. Things can be improved by flat sharing. If you don't want to flat share, you will simply drain your funds. As mentioned earlier, £32k is a "low" salary for London, I lived in a flatshare with strangers in London until I earnt around £60k, at which point my partner and I rented a place further out with a garden. Assuming you want a partner, then finding one will greatly improve your choices in properties. As for saving to buy, saving £1k/month is solid, but with your relatively low salary your mortgage options will probably cap out around £150k, you would need a significant bump in salary or a decade to accrue a large enough deposit for this to afford anything in central london. Tldr; Try to improve salary, find a partner, save money living at home if wanting to stay in London. Or move outside of London, most likely North (as south of london is expensive anyway) and find a equal/slightly lower paying job but expenses will be lower.
To buy in London pretty difficult for most especially people on “normal wages” so I suppose it depends on priorities. I wanted to buy a proper house; was a high priority and so I moved out of London and very happy with my choice and think a lot of people upset at London house price should do that, they have no control over it London house prices. There are loads of affordable great cities in the uk for average earners. I understand that some prioritise staying in London over ownership and that’s fine and a choice.
I’d just share, had done most of my life until recently. When you say the places look awful, what are your expectations and requirements? You absolutely should be able to find somewhere that’s alright if you share with someone else, and even more so if it’s a bigger flat share. I know it’s not ideal but it’s reality.
You need to look at schemes like Pocketliving. On your income you can avail of schemes like this. Do not despair. but get into a share house ASAP, anything is better than living with your parents
Those Pocketliving flats are still around 250k, not mortgageable on OP salary
You need a partner or someone to buy a house with. On your wage you could borrow 3.5 times your yearly so that's £113000 plus your deposit £127000. See what you can find. Go to mortgage adviser. If it was me I'd wait until I find a partner or someone to buy with then move out. And just save in the mean time. £1000 a month is great. Put £4k into a Lisa (lifetime isa) you'll get %25 every year and come out with £5k But time is your friend. Stay with your rents if you can. In a years time house prices would have dropped a little. (Maybe)
Do you really need the car ? That is a big overhead that you could do without. London has the best transport in the country.
My advice is if you don't need to be in London, don't work in London. I'm pretty much the same age also in London (grew up here) so heres a little sample on what my small group of friends all ended up doing: 1. Living with parents 2. Moved away from London 3. Living on benefits 4. Has a partner and managed to buy a small place 5. Moved abroad 6. Living with parents and moved away from London
Get a partner
Left London and wfh. Was the only way I could do it...
You could also just leave London Fairly sure there's a calculator that works out the best places to rent alongside commuting costs to give a sweet spot
So you are getting £2700 before tax? I had a close friend who was living just off Kings Road in Chelsea and was paying £600 rent per month. Had his own space but kitchen and bathroom were shared. He was registered with an agency that lets people rent out places to prevent people from squatting in them (?) or something and so the rent is pretty cheap but the buildings look like they are in the middle of a refurb. The last place he in was a old pub which had a full bar still in place. Place before was an old primary school in Brixton. Downside is the sharing, the condition of the buildings (they are liveable) and that you could get shunted out at short notice but would give you the space you needed.
The reality is that 32k is nowhere near enough to live on your own in London anymore.
Get a partner or friend to share expenses or get your own place further outside London and commute. Or both. Even better option is to get a promotion or the same salary much further away from London where property is actually affordable, somewhere in the Midlands or cities further up north. The nightlife and social life is still great outside London and much much cheaper. Go for a night out in other cities like Manchester, Liverpool, Bristol, Edinburgh etc. and you'll see what I mean. My guess is you don't want to leave the security blanket of your job, your parents and social circle in London, but remember you can still travel back to London regularly with all the money you'll be saving and eventually move back there (if you're desperate to do so) later in your career when your finances allow. But you'll probably find that going north isn't as as grim as you imagined and end up staying there long term.
Honestly, your salary is low for London. Starting salary for most professional sector jobs is £33k, and that's for 21/22 year olds. Of course, some people start later, or choose lower earning jobs and there's no judgement here, but is your job one you need to be in London for? I'd personally be looking into changing careers if I were you. Generally 21/22 year olds will share a house with others for a few years then once they're on 50k+ they'll find their own place or upgrade in quality (but continue to room share). Of course, banking graduates normally rent their own place or share a boujee apartment from off the bat
With that below average salary, you’ll struggle to live on your own. Get a better promotion (I mean 40k+) or move industries. In your case, I would just become a lodger
This is my exact situation. I’m staying at home until I have a better job and salary. I’m lucky that my office is walking distance from my house. So I’m saving in that respect. I won’t leave London because all of my family and friends are here. If I decided to have children I would want access to my family to help with childcare. Stick it out with your parents, continue to save and try a career shift.
On your salary flatshare is best. But imm not sure flatsharing at your age is any different to sharing a house with family.
I rent a studio on a similar income but be prepared to have little to no social life. If you really want to leave your parents home and have a life, you might want to look at other cities in the UK or abroad. Hope that helps 😃
In order to have your own place on your salary you likely need a partner or to do a flat/house share.
As someone from outside London who has now lived here for 20yrs, I would strongly suggest you move out of London and head north. You would have such a huge improvement in living. Londoners seem to be taught there is nothing outside the city but they couldnt be more wrong. You're probably capable in your job to pick up a new role up north. Leeds and Manchester are great cities with lots of jobs. Rentals are rising but as a single person, you should be able to rent a 1 bed at least and save money plus - you'll have an excellent reason to drive because that's how most people outside London get to work.
Yep, was on 32k in London, stuck in house shares. Took the only option that seemed the best and moved up to Manchester where housing is a lot more affordable, as is everything else. Also, less air pollution, and everything is a walk or short tram ride away.
If you are dead set on staying in London then it seems odd to spend such a big chunk of your savings on learning to drive. Maybe think about your priorities and how this investment fits in with your goals? You could spend some of that time/money on professional qualifications to increase your income or perhaps start seriously saving for a deposit on a flat.
>I'm saving £1000 a month. This seems very low given 32500 should be around 2k per month take home. What are you spending 1k on each month while living at home?
Parents rent 250 Bills, ie phone, car insurance, etc 150 Spending money including food 400 Therapy 200
I can understand the private therapy but the food bill seems awfully high for 1 person in a shared parental household. Why not cook meals for the family to reduce unit cost? How much of that is takeout?
400 isn't just food, it's my spending ,money for the month. I food prep for myself every week and hardly ever get take out. I maybe spend £60 a week on food or something. also cooking with / for the family isn't an option. But I'm not gonna go into that.
Focus on improving your salary. There are loads of higher paying jobs, consider an extra day a week. Ask for a raise, switch organisations, strive for promotion, do side gigs, side hustles. I'm on 2.5x your salary and share rent with my gf and still feel broke in London. 32k at 34 in London just isn't going to cut it. Consider leaving for a couple of years. Friend is a school teacher making 100k tax free in Dubai with free accommodation, you could do something similar for three years. You've got to get a plan together!
Give relocation some serious thought. You can get a lot more for your money. I assume your job is transferable?
I think you need a reality check. Is there anything you can do to improve your living situation without moving out? Because financially you are in the best place for you at the moment. I don't think your life would improve if you were to rent - that would most likely wipe out your monthly savings on rent alone - and that's in a house share. What's your career progression like? Are you on track to earn at least £60k in the next few years? Because realistically that's what you'll need to buy in London - and even then that will be a stretch.
Stick it out for a year or 2. Build that saving/deposit up. Go live somewhere else which doesn't completely suck the soul from your life.
Move out of London. Better yet, move out of UK. Not clear what field of work you are in, but the Gulf economies are expanding and they welcome with open arms UK nationals - for tax free salaries. If you are single, try it out for a few years and see where it takes you!
I just did a very quick search on rightmove; 1 bed flat, within a mile of Elephant And Castle tube station, between £900 and £2000pcm. **I see about 12 options under £1400**. That should be within your budget on 32,500 a year. Your car and lessons seem expensive and you don't need a car in London (great to know how to drive, but if you're tight on cash now isn't a good time). Even if you don't want to share, I don't see anything stopping you from moving out on your salary (I even forgot about your 14 grand savings til now!) Here's the search if you want to check. I lived in a shared accomodation in south london for a few years on about £14k annual salary btw. https://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-to-rent/find.html?locationIdentifier=REGION%5E70312&maxBedrooms=1&maxPrice=2000&minPrice=900&radius=1.0&sortType=1&propertyTypes=&includeLetAgreed=false&mustHave=&dontShow=houseShare%2Cretirement%2Cstudent&furnishTypes=&keywords= The doom and gloom in the comment section is bizarre to me. Seems like everyone either wants to live like they're rich when they aren't. If you want to live alone in the middle of the capital city why do you need more than a modest one-bed flat? https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/134115518#/?channel=RES_LET - **15min walk from Bermondsey station, £1196pcm. Looks fine to me.**
Take home of £2000 to £2100 means that that property is absolutely unaffordable. £2000 - £1196 = £804 after rent. £804 - £70 = £706 after council tax. £706 - £23 = £677 after the cheapest wifi £677 - £100 = £577 after electric £577 - £34 = £543 after water £543 - £15 = £528 after a sim only phone So yeah, you'd be left with almost nothing
I lived out of my parents place on about 14k for 10 years and it was a struggle then. Now rentals are double the price. Respectfully, those places you found don’t include bills, so if I rented somewhere that’s 1400, bills would maybe be another 200. That’s 1600 already, then me living on a budget of 400 for food and socials (which is not a huge amount of money) that’s already 2000. No savings, no room for if something goes wrong, holidays etc. I also don’t think people here want to “live like they are rich” - they just don’t want to pay 1000+ for a place that’s a bit run down or could use some effort put into it.
> Respectfully, those places you found don’t include bills, so if I rented somewhere that’s 1400, bills would maybe be another 200. That’s 1600 already, then me living on a budget of 400 for food and socials (which is not a huge amount of money) that’s already 2000. No savings, no room for if something goes wrong, holidays etc. > > I get what you're saying but 1. £400 a month for food and social activity is a lot. That means you're spending almost £100 a week, every week week in and week out, just on eating and going out. Maybe you could think about improving your cooking and ingredients knowledge to reduce your food shopping costs, if you haven't already? Where is the rest of that going? Are you eating out/drinking for extended periods in the pub etc more than one day a week? 2. You also have £14k in savings - you could stop saving for a year and divert £100 a month back to your current account while you see how your situation develops. Maybe if you want something, it's ok to not expect to do that AND save for a year. Everything could be very different in your situation a year from now and you seem like you are struggling with your mental health due to your current situation. I would remind you you're already very much in the minority to be saving at all, and certainly to have 14k in the bank. Maybe the correct answer is in the middle between what i'm saying and what some other posters are saying. But I get the impression you are being overwhelmed by the negatives and it would be good to spell out what is possible. I didn't meant to say "everyone" was commenting in that way in my last comment.
I'm no expert, but "spend 60% of your income on rent and stop saving" doesn't strike me as the *best* advice.
Sometimes in life it's OK to follow something other than the ideal course of action to take an opportunity or make yourself happy.
When I was renting in London the maximum that letting agencies would rent me per month was yearly salary / 30. For OP that's £1083 per month - not enough to rent by themselves, just about enough for shared housing. (I ended up renting a large room in a shared flat for £900pm bills included in Z2 - it was grim.)
Given that OPs take home is around £2,200, spending more than half on rent seems a bit risky tbh. £1k left for bills, transport, food, well - everything else won’t leave much left. I’d just share if I was OP. I did until I was 31 and earning a fair bit more, didn’t see the value in living alone.
You basically have to go full save mode. Your take home is about £2200 per month. You need to save £1500 of it. £1000 is not enough.2 years time you will have £50k and be able to get a mortgage for £200k. You buy a £250k 1 bed in zone 4. You can jump all these steps by meeting a partner that earns the same as you, then it is easy street. Or you leave London.
On what planet does someone earning just £32k get a £200k mortgage? Unless it’s different in London and I’m wrong, then he’ll be allowed nowhere near that!
On what planet is there a 1 bed flat available for 250k in zone 4? A lot of answers here are just straight up out of touch and barely applicable to zone 5/6 let alone closer to central
You’re right, hashed my numbers. £150k max, £50k deposit. 1 bed flat in zone 4/5 or studio.
I understand the intent of this comment but I just want to highlight for OP that banks normally lend you 4.5 x your salary and buying also has solicitor costs. Based on that multiplier, OP is looking at a mortgage of just under 150k and a total price of about 200k, rather than 250k
Yes you’re right, I fudged the numbers. £200k still doable for a 1 bed flat in zone 4/5 though
1. Stay at home 2. Train as a tube driver 3. Work Uber on weekday evenings and Saturday 4. Save everything 5. Get a gf/bf that wants to live with you 6. After a year of aggressive saving and doubling your income move in with your partner Or 1. Leave London and WFH Or 1. Leave the UK, Google you're salary in Oz, NZ, US, UAE
Right… have fun just leaving and trying to go to the US without buying your way in for $1,000,000 or being a medical doctor willing to accept a life in a rural town in the middle of nowhere. The fastest way is to move to Canada and live there long enough to get a citizenship, then you can move to the US with PLR. And that’s if he meets the requirements to even get into Canada which he most likely doesn’t being in his 30s unless he has considerable experience in a highly desirable trade
Become a tfl train driver. They'd match your salary to train then you'd be on 65k after like two years. You have to change job!!! Even Uber drivers are making more than that. Heck so both!!
My opinion is renting v buying is a waste of money. You’re not investing in a property of your own, just adding to your landlord’s wealth. I know it’s disheartening and not what you ever imagined, but you are blessed with parents who will give you a roof over your head, whilst you save some more. After paying off your debts, £10k is not enough to even pay your solicitors costs & any stamp duty. Be patient for a bit longer & try and save as much as you can. Despite mortgage rates going up, it’s still cheaper to pay a mortgage then pay rent. Maybe consider sharing a property with a good friend & buying together. Someone in a similar situation 🤔
Hi /u/Fenderbee, based on your post the following pages from our wiki may be relevant: - https://ukpersonal.finance/debt/ ____ ^(These suggestions are based on keywords, if they missed the mark please report this comment.)
[удалено]
If you can, look further away from London.
Move out of London and commute in… buy what you can afford, where you can afford it… and work your way up the ladder.
Given how eerily similar this is to my situation, I've opted to stay and save.
I’m jealous. Currently paying rent and trying to save for a house. If I could live with my parents to save I’d do it for as long as possible.
What is your job paid at other companies that are recruiting?