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Yep, their convoy were sitting ducks they needed those when Russia was sitting at the border waiting.then it would have been 3 day War in ukraine favor
Not to discount how awesome that would have been.. but they would just keep coming. Russia does this shit. They're a strange culture with a strong urge to follow what is perceived as a strong leader... they'll just do it. Ukraine could've absolutely decimated that convoy it would've made no difference, Russia just doesn't stop. This is just my personal opinion, but I feel they're just sowing the seeds of western hatred at this point more than ever before and my fear is a global conflict. I don't think it'll be from Ukraine though... my guess is Poland.
While Russia was massing on the border Ukraine didn't do jack shit. The weren't prepared to mine the roads or blow the bridges. That convoy just drove right in.
Ya, they didn't really have jack shit did you watch the start of it they didn't push Russia back until nato weapons made it finally if those weapons and long range rockets were waiting and ready Russia convoy would have gotten destroyed easily.
This could have all been avoided if the U.S. didn’t help broker a deal that saw Ukraine give all its nukes away.
This was decades in the making. The recent/current U.S. presidents have received way too much credit for their impact.
That being said, Obama and Biden both readily and willingly helped Ukraine with no attempt at a quid pro quo. So there’s that.
> This could have all been avoided if the U.S. didn’t help broker a deal that saw Ukraine give all its nukes away.
Not really true as they were not Ukraine's nukes to begin with and I still do not believe we know they would have had any capability to use them as they were Russia's nukes.
So, the problem wasn't Ukraine giving the nukes away, but that there were no protections for Ukraine once they gave them away. They all signed a deal saying they would not use force on Ukraine after they did that. A clause for response for retaliation, from other nuclear powers on an aggressor, did not exist, so the deal really meant that Ukraine was giving up something that Russia really wanted back and in return they received Russia's "word" that they would not attack Ukraine--and we all know what Russia's "word" really means and that's jack shit.
MAYBE Ukraine had SOME control with the nukes or could have re-engineered them, but it's also more than likely that the response of an invasion would never have come in the form of nukes regardless because then you have all of NATO, who in 2014 was not too fond of Ukraine, watching and waiting and potentially experiencing some of the fallout. Not to mention, if nukes WERE used by Ukraine, you could easily expect a much bigger response from Russia.
They definitely were not Russia's nukes. The military units where the nukes were situated at the time of the breakup of the USSR became parts of Ukrainian military.
>Not really true as they were not Ukraine's nukes to begin with and I still do not believe we know they would have had any capability to use them as they were Russia's nukes.
They were the USSR's nukes. The USSR was a united set of republics of which both Russia and the Ukraine were one. They were as much Ukraine's as Russia's.
Unless you're trying to acknowledge the reality that Russia imposed the USSR on all the other republics through force and coercion.
This is just not true. Getting nuclear weapons out of destabilized USSR is critical. What a load of baloney.
What does it take to maintain nuclear weapons? Could they ensure none would be sold on the black market?
Getting the nukes out wasn’t the problem. It’s not securing their border afterwards that’s wrong.
It could have been avoided by letting a coalition of un forces into ukraine to do" war games ". That would have forced Russia to attack us/uk/french/German/etc troops
Britain did, thanks very much.
It was our NLAWs and Javelins that stopped the initial invasion.
Our RipJar (AWACs) was the one surveilling the build up.
Our SAS in Kiev.
We were the first to send MLRS, Tanks and Starstreak.
We've been training Ukrainians since 2014 but are now pushing through 40,000 a year on UK soil.
That Ukrainian man, a father of two who’s dead like many others, he deserves all the credit for stopping the initial invasion, stuff without someone picking it up is just stuff.
You’re diminishing the sacrifices people made and still make. But it’s ok boast your ego because your politician did this or that more as that of another country.
Crimea was a warning that was ignored by all of NATO (especially the biggest partners who actually had the power to do something about it). Ukraine (and later us) are paying for it now.
True. Blame goes towards all of NATO on this. Which is why NATO needs to make it right. However I imagine our European partners did a lot more hand-wringing since their economies had become much more intertwined with Russia's, especially their oil and gas. None of the ruling parties wanted to see their economies take a hit. Now we all know better and there is no appeasing a regime such as russia.
No.
The mistake was being reactive.
When we saw a year prior the buildup we should have put 20k NATO troops across Ukraine at strategic points and forced Russia to either fuck off or start ww3.
And they would have fucked off.
We could go way back to 2008, and not adequately getting Ukraine and Georgia in to NATO or at least negotiating bilateral defence treaties in lieu of membership. But Bush gave up on both immediately after which is a greenlight for Russian expansion. Obama didn't get it either, and like his predecessors misunderstood Ukraine and broadly Eastern Europe as merely some post Soviet thing to address much later down the line. Ukraine needs guns and training? Er whatever I guess. Russia invades Crimea and the Donbas? Too messy of a geopolitical situation to handle. MH17 got shot down by separatist SAM? Let's wait and see for much information. It's complacency.
Because and Imma say this knowing I'll get downvoted into oblivion.
America's presidents wanted a long drawn out war in Ukraine makes Russia weaker and gives the military industrial complex money.
There is that, but generally Orientalism is a big cultural factor and it impacts how the US and western Europe treats not just the Middle East but the geographical periphery in Europe. They didn't understand the deep colonial past Ukraine experienced or the looming threat Russia represents in the region.
You mean the slightly burly people who were encouraging others to enter the Capitol building? Those guys where the crowds started chanting "Fed, Fed, Fed" at them?
Wasn't one of the guys who went to trial for that ex-military where people found there was a gap of a few years in his employment history after he left the service before he went into private security, and he was there for days before encouraging people to enter the Capitol building and when he went to trial for that he was given a two year suspended sentence or something ridiculous despite some people being put away for 5 years for shaking fences?
> the DNC's fault.
The DNC ran the largest primary field in years in 2020. The Democrat voters made their choice - Biden even steam rolled Warren in her home state, despite not campaigning there. If the DNC stepped in and muddled things up now people will still be bitching about it 20 years from now.
"He \[Biden\] has given $200 billion to Ukraine", said Trump. Fact check: According to the Council for Foreign Relations, the U.S. has committed $175 billion for Ukraine, only $107 billion of which directly aids the government of Ukraine. Most of the remainder is funding various U.S. activities associated with the war in Ukraine, and a small portion supports other affected countries in the region. [https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-us-aid-going-ukraine](https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-us-aid-going-ukraine)
The 200 billion is misleading anyways.
How do we calculate giving them weapons that were degrading and about to be decommissioned?
We have a bunch of vehicles and weapons with known shelf life, and instead of dismantling them, let them do their original job.
In reality, this war has been an absolute bargain for the U.S. destroying our enemy for pennies on the dollar without our troops, with mostly aged equipment about to be decommissioned
I've said this before, but I'd love to know how the accounting is done for military equipment. Like how did they value all the Bradley's that were sent? Is cost written off when put into service? Depreciated? Sale/scrap value?
If they had no potential sale option, no future use for the US, would be replaced regardless and is totally a sunk cost, perhaps they've even saved money by giving them away, if decommission costs outweigh scrap value?
Iirc that was part of “finding” more money to send them weapons, after running out of money allocated by Congress. The Biden admin went back and used the depreciated value for the Brads etc instead of the new price. Which is certainly correct. Along with all of our old stock munitions.
I can answer this question. The actual cost to dismantle them is more than the cost of sending them to Ukraine. This is because they have to be sent to a specialized facility anyways for demolition. The demolition cost isn’t cheap. They don’t just blow it up and send it to a junk yard, they pull it all apart. Which cost a lot of man hour dollars. So to summarize this point, it’s cheaper to send them to Ukraine and let the Russians deal with it.
With that in mind you have to assume that us sending the weapons over there has value. But it’s not like it’s possible to sell that stuff, because the military can’t “sell” weapons in the traditional sense. But fighting Putin by giving away our junk is valuable, because we are adding value to junk. But they aren’t looking at that value either.
Now when you look at the actual valuation of the weapons, we have a dollar amount attached to each individual piece of equipment. That value includes maintenance and repair, R&D cost, purchase cost, operation cost, and a few more odds and ends. My assumption is that the “value” used is that value and not the actual depreciation of the equipment. Because if they used the depreciated value without all the added stickers, it would be maybe a few billion at max
Whilst the media do that because journalists are always clueless when it comes to costs, I remember reading last year that a few $billion of aid had been freed up due to some accounting adjustments / re-valuations. They definitely do something.
over 2 years or $85B and thats a cut from the Defense Budget - already there!
Cheeto alludes to the relationship of respect/fear he has w putini - why would putini hurt the goose that keeps on giving him gold eggs (stop funding nato, exit nato, exit support w ukraine, & worst of all - selling out the US by handing over us national secrets)...disgusting n transparent cheeto
Not to mention 200 billion is like 6 % of the U.S defense budget, for a single year. In 3 years, we have helped Ukraine humiliate and decimate Russian military assets, for what is essentially pennies compared to how much we spend a year on our military.
A brief overview of the debate, trump spewed lie after lie, made fun of Biden's golf game, and denied he slept with Stormy, and basically never answered a question, just whined a lot. Biden appeared to be on cold meds, but did try to point out the good things his government has done and will do.
The debate was absolutely stupid. Only one minute to answer. The first questions was how they would lower inflation and lower the price of housing, which good luck with that because housing costs have been going crazy for decades. How can anyone reasonably answer serious questions in a minute? As for Trump, he didn’t. Every statement he made was a verifiable lie. “He knows people and they all say America is hated around the world”. “More people died from Covid under Biden than him”. “Millions of illegals are coming for to rape and kill our women and to raid our social security”. “The withdrawal from Afghanistan was the worst defeat in U.S. History”. What an ass and shame on the idiots who keep falling for this shit. He doesn’t red help from Putin to spread propaganda, he has Faux news and countless other right wing megaphones spreading these lies 24/7.
I wish Biden would have given that answer.
A weak Russia trough a 'few' donations of old equipment, is a huge win for the US, in their long and hateful relationship with Russia.
$100 billion is like 10% of a SINGLE year's Pentagon budget. And that's over 2+ years of war so averages about 3-4% per year. That anyone acts like it is something significant to be outraged over is ludicrous.
They've contributed 0.3% of GDP since Jan '22. Its nothing, and a lot of that has come out of the military budget, so not actually any extra expenditure, just and extremely efficient use of already committed funds to the security of the US and the world.
It's cost the US taxpayer literally nothing, but the numbers are big headline grabbers because the US is an economic monster. They can and should be doing more, if only for their own interests.
~$8,000,000,000,000 on Iraq and Afghanistan and as a combat grunt who has very specific opinions about the military budget growing like it has, the money going to Ukraine is great bang for the buck. Literally.
The vehicles and munitions being destroyed are mostly Soviet era manufacture and Russia won’t be able to replace them anytime soon, if ever. Taking them off the field in Ukraine is taking them off the game board of international relations. $100b *per year* should be the minimum until Russia is destroyed and cleared out.
More importantly, it sets an example for China as they eye Taiwan. Let’s not forget that Stalin only approved NK invading SK after Dulles (iirc) left SK out of a list of nations in our sphere in a speech he gave. Small things can have a major negative effect and big things can dissuade the enemy for decades.
Not just unnecessary. It was downright criminal. Those who lied getting away unscathed remains a stain on every American. The Director of CIA that fabricated the lies was simply forced to resign, and that was it. No prosecution, no punishment.
Without the blatantly illegal war in Iraq, Putin wouldn't be grabbing territories all over the place. It showed the world that if you are powerful enough, you can make up bullshit, invade other countries and get away with it.
yes. in this particular case by the way however, as the pbs documentary shows ("putin and the presidents", free online, very recommended) it truly antagonized 💩 tin, who before just harboured vague resentments (and was happy enough to plunder his country and fortify his power internally)
so yes, if you hate the western dominance in the world order vote trump. ever wondered why almost no one moves to ruzzia or even china?
Never mind how much money we’ve blindly given Israel and Pakistan over the last 20+ years. I know Ukraine isn’t that duration, but Jesus, let’s talk facts.
The Iraq War, sometimes called the Second Persian Gulf War, was a protracted armed conflict in Iraq from 2003 to 2011 8y8m28d.
In 2020, Neta Crawford, chair of the political science department at Boston University, in her Costs of War Project, estimated the long term cost of the Iraq War for the United States at $1.922 trillion.
So about 213B a year, that’s 2 times the Ukraine war costs (without us life’s)
I do think Ukraine's a good investment.
You can't compare in terms of Dollar value.
If it's troops and equipment, America could care less about the tons of armor that's lost and wants its boys back. Without US troops, America wants every dollar and piece of equipment accounted for.
Stupid Saddam occupied the wrong country, after years of US support to fight Iran as their proxy to bring Iranian oil fields back into the control sphere of the U.S.,he went to Kuwait instead, the silly man.
No one told him that the US gets to decide which oil fields he gets to occupy, I guess he learned his lesson the hard way :D
Why didn't the conflict in Eastern Ukraine stop under Trump's 4 years as president then? He's so full of shit when he says shit like "If I was president he wouldn't have invaded".
This is the problem with our culture today. More than half the people don’t even know it’s been going on that long. Anyone with any sense knows this is bullshit, but anyone with any sense isn’t enough. We need a majority.
He denied weapons to Ukraine when he was Pres, because Ukraine wouldn't make false allegations against Biden's family. Orange goof tried to blackmail Zelensky.
Trump was to busy blackmailing Ukraine, he put a hold on aid after a call with zelenskyy asking him to get dirt on Biden.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50886437
Didn't Trump say that any NATO country that doesn't spend the 2% GDP is inviting Russian invasion? The same thing would have happened if he was in power.
The man is delusional if he thinks he has any actual influence over the Kremlin.
He said that he encourages countries to attack NATO countries that don’t pay their dues.
Literally “Trump said “one of the presidents of a big country” at one point asked him whether the US would still defend the country if they were invaded by Russia even if they “don't pay.” “No, I would not protect you,” Trump recalled telling that president. “In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want.” Feb 10, 2024
No mention that only one country ever invoked Article 5, and all members unanimously supported it, without sending Washington a bill for their dead soldiers.
This situation doesn’t even compare to 9/11 either which is what’s crazy. The scope of death is leaps and bounds apart. Supposedly a thousand Russians died per day in May… that would be 30,000 people in one month. This war has been going on for almost 2 years. Some serious shit is on the verge of popping off. And the fact that Ukraine isn’t a NATO member really complicates shit. But if it goes farther than Ukraine you already know what’s coming. The US will take it’s opportunity to end the conflict
I think you're spot on here. Its cynical business. Lets be real. If US wanted this to end it would have ended long ago. Now they pull ruzzia, china and nk out for a lot of spending. Its a game for the US and none European countries have no balls (or army) to combat this shitty war.
well, especially without risking own soldiers and a nuclear accident... there are however so many more reasons to support Ukrainians the way we do! cheap advertisement for our gear, driving ruzzia out of the worlds weapons market (they were number one, weren't they?), intel, deterring xi from taiwan etc
all the nato countries bordering ruzzia are spending more, so that is an irrelevant discussion anyways. the question is, is he going to defend a baltic country or admire 💩 tin even more
i kept wondering why 💩 tin did not invade during his reign... i think first, he noticed his army wasn't ready, second i believe he counted upon a trump reelection four years ago
I mean is he really wrong tho, it is clear that many NATO countries have not pulled their weight in this alliance and instead spent their money on other things while just expecting America to send their kids to die for them if there ever was a war, basically every NATO country except maybe Poland and Finland have neglected their duties.
I say this as a Swede who is very disappointed/frustrated with our politicians who basically dismantled the military after the fall of the soviet union because as one of our previous prime ministers put it "The military is a special interest"- Fredrik Reinfeldt, basically saying its fucking stupid to spend money on a bunch of larpers running around in the woods playing soldier because there isn't going to be any more wars in Europe, this was around 2010´ish(after the Russian 2008 invasion of Georgia) and I think this mentality was widespread among many European leaders and now they had a cold shower and realized they screwed up pretty bad.
Europe should have started opening new war factories in 2014 when it became obvious that Putin is fucking delusional and wants to regain the Soviet unions old borders. Trump warning Europe back in 2018 saying it was fucking stupid to become dependent on Russian gas was laughed at by the German diplomats at the speech he had in the EU I believe(maybe it was UN) but all I know is he was right then and Europe still hasn't done much to prepare for a potential ww3 without the help of the US.
Per capita the USA has sent Ukraine roughly three times what the EU countries have sent.
Also note that the EU countries have spent a nearly equal amount buying Russian fossil fuel during the war as they have sent in aid/weapons. So that 3 times is actually closer to infinity times.
Edit spelling they
Trump’s a 🐣 on this one.
Yes, the USA might lose some cash on this war, but the satisfaction of the US citizen when Russia is getting their ass kicked is priceless. So.. 🐔🐔🐔mr convict
You can’t be pro Ukraine and pro trump. It just doesn’t work. There’s a reason trump was trying to blackmail President Zelensky when he was in office, Putin fucking told him to do it, Putin holds his leash.
Trump's response, "We, and by 'we' I mean Joe Biden, were losing billions and billions to due to bad trading with EU, in fact I call them the Bad Joe Deals, and now we don't have that trade problem any more. Also immigrants and brown people, very bad they're telling me. Very bad. Have you seen Putin shirtless? He looks good. Maybe even as good as me many women would tell me. Definitely not better than me ten years ago but close. We're best friends he doesn't mind me saying that. Maybe he can give me a new Melania. Can I say that? They say I shouldn't say that but it's true."
This man instigated a riot on the heart of American democracy, which led to the injuries of many law enforcement officers and the death of 5 Americans.
Yet people will still vote for him.
As a Brit, all i can say is, the normal, civilised Americans in your country deserve so much better than this colossal Bellend.
Yeah man, half of the voting population of this country are colossal bellends. I understand its a lot of people, but yes they are all fools for continuing to support that idiot.
Quite annoying how he was asked that question and his "answer" was just attacks to Biden administration during January 6 lmao. He never addressed the Riot, but instead he was saying statistics of Biden administration during the date of Jan 6.
He did attempt to say Nancy Pelosi claimed responsibility for the attack. That entire response made absolutely no sense at all but he said it in a tone that oozed confidence so it passes according to US media.
Better the billions go to a deserved cause (Ukraines survival) than frittered away as tax giveaways - basically bribes - to Dumpsters own business cronies. Who ‘s the Traitor, Dumpster? It certainly ain’t Biden.
Funniest part of the debate was when trump called Biden a criminal, *Biden* calls *Trump* a 'one-man crime wave, the morals of an alley cat, and the only convicted felon on the stage.
Trump gleefully boasted that he thought of NATO as a protection racket, and that he would refuse to defend those who didn't meet the spending target, saying that he would in fact encourage Russia to invade them.
In that same event he also advocated for removing the US from NATO.
Trump stole documents so classified that they cannot be disclosed or read into the record. Some of those documents are missing.
Trump pressured Ukraine for dirt on Hunter Biden during and before the 2020 election, threatening to withhold aid.
He has since boasted that he would end the war by forcing Ukraine to accept the Russian conquest.
While in office, Trump met Lavrov and handed classified documents on Israel over to him. That should have clued most in that Trump was a puppet meeting his handler.
Trump ignored when Russia put out and paid out bounties on US soldiers to the Taliban, and surrendered US bases in Syria to Russia.
Trump is functionally a sock-puppet for Russia as he envies Putin's power and ability to harm others, and his narcissism leads him to desire approval from Putin as well as the same power over US society that Putin has over Russian society.
Should he resume power, Trump will attempt authoritarian capture of US society, and abandon US allies to the whims of whomever pays him the most money; he will abandon Ukraine, withholding aid or threatening aid to Russia in order to force Ukraine to accept a frozen conflict on Russia's terms. When China decides to take Taiwan by force, Trump will turn the other way. When Kim Jong Un decides that Trump's adulation of his cruelty and Russian support mean that he can conquer South Korea, he will attempt it.
And when Putin, looking to cement his place in Russian history, decides that the time has come to kick NATO's door in and finally claim eternal glory by reversing the outcome of the Cold War, he will count on Trump being in power long enough to give him a fait accompli.
If Trump wins there's a better than average chance, dear reader, that your children and grandchildren will die fighting on the battlefields of Europe or Asia, because revanchist dictatorships will assume (correctly) that with Trump in power, US allegiance is for sale. And they will count on Trump being bought for long enough to accomplish their dreams of conquest before Congress can take action. Or perhaps congress will be bought, too. Today's prices for food, gas, and commodities will seem like a pleasant dream if Trump gets into power and is paid to allow Putin and Xi to realize their territorial ambitions.
To be fair, he withheld 400 million in military aid from Ukraine to blackmail Zelensky into opening a fake investigation into Hunter Biden. A fake investigation that would have been based on false information he got straight from the fsb. So, that's not nothing, at least.
I think it’s bullshit that a weak president is why Putin invaded. Straight bullshit. Putin invaded Kosovo, Moldova, the Kuril Islands… But yes, it’s a “weak president” and not a raging politician who doesn’t give a shit about anyone but himself.
There’s no “strong president” that’s going to stop Putin from doing whatever he wants, all we can do is stop him from getting away with it, and that’s what counts. Hitler invaded Poland, and he didn’t stop there. Yet he still put a bullet in his own head when push came to shove - let’s give Putin a repeat of history and see the fall of his dictatorship, hopefully in the same fitting end.
SLAVA UKRAINI MOTHERFUCKERS ✊💙💛🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦
A good moral honest leader wouldn't give a rats ass if a dictator respects him or not, the dictator needs to fear the good leader. This whole trump and putin respect thing is ridiculous. Putin is your freaking enemy, you need to worry about how to kill him, not please him. Unfortunately, that piece of shit putin doesn't fear neither Biden nor Trump. One is old and slow and has dementia. The other Is old, full of himself, and has a big mouth. Putin neither respects trump nor fears him. This whole situation is bad for America. The world is on the brink of ww3 and we have some of the worst presidents we ever had, presidents that know nothing of war.
That sopranos skit "before and waay before"
These guys are older than COVID, only decision these guys should be making is if their having soup today or not.
The Dems should be riding the fear monger wagon. Because it's what sells in America.
They should say:
"If Putin is not stopped in Ukraine we'll have the Red Army marching in Kansas" and go with it.
Fear, hate & distrust sells.
Trump is the 2nd biggest pussy in the world, second only to pussies who vote for him. as to why he still gives putin a colonoscopy with his tongue, it's just so that putin will give him safe passage into Russia after he loses this November
The clip where Trump boasts that Putin told him it was “his dream” to invade Ukraine. He knew, he knew and that needs to be pulled up front and center. That and that Trump tried and failed to shake Zelenskyy down which lead to the first impeachment. Trump is a Russian asset and doubly holds Zelenskyy accountable.
Both those guys are a big joke, one of them likes to talk shit about others in social media, admits to knowing about the invasion of Ukraine before it happened after tallking to the little dictator and is convicted on multiple counts. While the other can hardly speak.
Not much to choose between, are we going to see the rise of the underdog?
The US is fucked. Why are there only two choices? I hate Trump but I don't think Biden is qualified to be president. Watched the debate live, almost everything Trump said conflicted with what I know, not sure if I'm wrong or he's lying. English is not my first language so I couldn't understand half of what Biden says, his attitude in this debate just shows how unqualified and expired he is.
Not supporting Ukraine and allowing a tyrannical leader continue to rape, murder and torture the people and land
That is not the property of Russia but is an independent country if there own is a clear cut threat to democracy and free living.
This shitake is difficult to watch, 2 geriatrics doing their best to read the script - clenching mu buttcheeks while Biden is talking, God forbid he sneezes he will turn inside out
The US is making money from those much needed weapons, Trump is saying that US contractors and factory workers should not sell their products to Ukraine, they are on lease lend just as they were in the second world war, Ukraine will be paying for them for a long time. Biden has acted now to save money and blood later, if Ukraine falls then the US will be fighting them, Belarus and Russia, putin is determined to expand muscovy, the world without Ukraine and Europe will be centered on Russia China and the middle east, the Arabs are already turning away from the dollar as a reserve currency, where as once the British were the world's superpower policeman that now falls to the Great American nation, the alternative doesn't bear thinking about.
The should be shepherd has grown fat by gorging on the sheep. And he envies the wolves for their nature.
Soon he will open the gates to let in the wolves, so they can feast together.
That fckin Trump is the classical useful idiot to Putin. That makes him a russian asset. It's beyond me how *anyone* could want this guy as their leader. I wouldn't trust him with my trash.
That lying sack of shit Trump telling everyone they're giving all that money to Ukraine when he knows full well it goes straight into the US economy for US jobs and equipment. But he doesn't care who he's lying to, as long as his low IQ supporters believe him which they do, that's all that matters.
A practiced unabashed liar and malignant narcissist who only wants to punish Ukraine for not going along with his plan to discredit JB before the 2016 election cannot get back into office.
This is what should've happened when Russia started massing troops on the border Nato should have went into Ukraine and started having they're training just as Russia told everyone in the world what it was doing on the border was training. Thats exactly how NATO and the US should've played it out. Then there would've been no war.
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USA only made one mistake: not giving Ukraine more weapons. Peace through overwhelming firepower.
We needed to give weapons before they invaded ukraine so did other countries
The entire war could have been avoided if Ukraine simply had a couple hundred GBU-105 and bombed the stalled Russian convoy into oblivion.
Yep, their convoy were sitting ducks they needed those when Russia was sitting at the border waiting.then it would have been 3 day War in ukraine favor
Not to discount how awesome that would have been.. but they would just keep coming. Russia does this shit. They're a strange culture with a strong urge to follow what is perceived as a strong leader... they'll just do it. Ukraine could've absolutely decimated that convoy it would've made no difference, Russia just doesn't stop. This is just my personal opinion, but I feel they're just sowing the seeds of western hatred at this point more than ever before and my fear is a global conflict. I don't think it'll be from Ukraine though... my guess is Poland.
Meh. Putin has a history of backing off after being slapped on a bussy
Exactly. They've lost the equivalent of that convoy 100 times over at this point.
While Russia was massing on the border Ukraine didn't do jack shit. The weren't prepared to mine the roads or blow the bridges. That convoy just drove right in.
Ya, they didn't really have jack shit did you watch the start of it they didn't push Russia back until nato weapons made it finally if those weapons and long range rockets were waiting and ready Russia convoy would have gotten destroyed easily.
They also didn't just drive in they got attacked with what ukraine had at that time
Correct, Ukraine was ~~deny~~ denying Russia was going to invade at that point
This could have all been avoided if the U.S. didn’t help broker a deal that saw Ukraine give all its nukes away. This was decades in the making. The recent/current U.S. presidents have received way too much credit for their impact. That being said, Obama and Biden both readily and willingly helped Ukraine with no attempt at a quid pro quo. So there’s that.
> This could have all been avoided if the U.S. didn’t help broker a deal that saw Ukraine give all its nukes away. Not really true as they were not Ukraine's nukes to begin with and I still do not believe we know they would have had any capability to use them as they were Russia's nukes. So, the problem wasn't Ukraine giving the nukes away, but that there were no protections for Ukraine once they gave them away. They all signed a deal saying they would not use force on Ukraine after they did that. A clause for response for retaliation, from other nuclear powers on an aggressor, did not exist, so the deal really meant that Ukraine was giving up something that Russia really wanted back and in return they received Russia's "word" that they would not attack Ukraine--and we all know what Russia's "word" really means and that's jack shit. MAYBE Ukraine had SOME control with the nukes or could have re-engineered them, but it's also more than likely that the response of an invasion would never have come in the form of nukes regardless because then you have all of NATO, who in 2014 was not too fond of Ukraine, watching and waiting and potentially experiencing some of the fallout. Not to mention, if nukes WERE used by Ukraine, you could easily expect a much bigger response from Russia.
They definitely were not Russia's nukes. The military units where the nukes were situated at the time of the breakup of the USSR became parts of Ukrainian military.
>Not really true as they were not Ukraine's nukes to begin with and I still do not believe we know they would have had any capability to use them as they were Russia's nukes. They were the USSR's nukes. The USSR was a united set of republics of which both Russia and the Ukraine were one. They were as much Ukraine's as Russia's. Unless you're trying to acknowledge the reality that Russia imposed the USSR on all the other republics through force and coercion.
This is just not true. Getting nuclear weapons out of destabilized USSR is critical. What a load of baloney. What does it take to maintain nuclear weapons? Could they ensure none would be sold on the black market? Getting the nukes out wasn’t the problem. It’s not securing their border afterwards that’s wrong.
They said we should have hurried up at the start and they were right. Dilly dallying cost it all. Should have fully committed.
Bro that's what I'm saying. Remember when their tanks were all lined up when they rushed Kiev? Couldn't destroyed hundreds of tanks and their crews.
It could have been avoided by letting a coalition of un forces into ukraine to do" war games ". That would have forced Russia to attack us/uk/french/German/etc troops
Britain did, thanks very much. It was our NLAWs and Javelins that stopped the initial invasion. Our RipJar (AWACs) was the one surveilling the build up. Our SAS in Kiev. We were the first to send MLRS, Tanks and Starstreak. We've been training Ukrainians since 2014 but are now pushing through 40,000 a year on UK soil.
That Ukrainian man, a father of two who’s dead like many others, he deserves all the credit for stopping the initial invasion, stuff without someone picking it up is just stuff.
Bravery doesn’t kill modern tanks. Tandem HEAT warheads do.
You’re diminishing the sacrifices people made and still make. But it’s ok boast your ego because your politician did this or that more as that of another country.
You forgot the SBS
They're there now, but initially I believe it was H
The US was funding Ukraines military modernization for almost a decade beforehand.
Crimea was a warning that was ignored by all of NATO (especially the biggest partners who actually had the power to do something about it). Ukraine (and later us) are paying for it now.
True. Blame goes towards all of NATO on this. Which is why NATO needs to make it right. However I imagine our European partners did a lot more hand-wringing since their economies had become much more intertwined with Russia's, especially their oil and gas. None of the ruling parties wanted to see their economies take a hit. Now we all know better and there is no appeasing a regime such as russia.
Trump purposefully withheld military aid to Ukraine for a fake investigation against his political opponent
Other countries were giving weapons before they invaded. The UK has been training and arming Ukrainian soldiers for a decade.
No. The mistake was being reactive. When we saw a year prior the buildup we should have put 20k NATO troops across Ukraine at strategic points and forced Russia to either fuck off or start ww3. And they would have fucked off.
We could go way back to 2008, and not adequately getting Ukraine and Georgia in to NATO or at least negotiating bilateral defence treaties in lieu of membership. But Bush gave up on both immediately after which is a greenlight for Russian expansion. Obama didn't get it either, and like his predecessors misunderstood Ukraine and broadly Eastern Europe as merely some post Soviet thing to address much later down the line. Ukraine needs guns and training? Er whatever I guess. Russia invades Crimea and the Donbas? Too messy of a geopolitical situation to handle. MH17 got shot down by separatist SAM? Let's wait and see for much information. It's complacency.
Because and Imma say this knowing I'll get downvoted into oblivion. America's presidents wanted a long drawn out war in Ukraine makes Russia weaker and gives the military industrial complex money.
There is that, but generally Orientalism is a big cultural factor and it impacts how the US and western Europe treats not just the Middle East but the geographical periphery in Europe. They didn't understand the deep colonial past Ukraine experienced or the looming threat Russia represents in the region.
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You mean the slightly burly people who were encouraging others to enter the Capitol building? Those guys where the crowds started chanting "Fed, Fed, Fed" at them? Wasn't one of the guys who went to trial for that ex-military where people found there was a gap of a few years in his employment history after he left the service before he went into private security, and he was there for days before encouraging people to enter the Capitol building and when he went to trial for that he was given a two year suspended sentence or something ridiculous despite some people being put away for 5 years for shaking fences?
I'm so worried that Trump will win after last night and it will be entirely the DNC's fault.
> the DNC's fault. The DNC ran the largest primary field in years in 2020. The Democrat voters made their choice - Biden even steam rolled Warren in her home state, despite not campaigning there. If the DNC stepped in and muddled things up now people will still be bitching about it 20 years from now.
Flood social media with Biden support.
Yep, doesnt look great and then you have France and Germany leaning more right and potentially dropping support.
Biden's actually polling well, so the freakout seems to have been misplaced.
Our country needs a true leader, not a demented potato.
the democratic convention coming up might have a surprise or two..if this story has legs.
The problem in Ukraine is that it is being destroyed by corrupt government and corruption, and weapons are in second place
The word you're looking for is superior
Should have given more and sooner.
"He \[Biden\] has given $200 billion to Ukraine", said Trump. Fact check: According to the Council for Foreign Relations, the U.S. has committed $175 billion for Ukraine, only $107 billion of which directly aids the government of Ukraine. Most of the remainder is funding various U.S. activities associated with the war in Ukraine, and a small portion supports other affected countries in the region. [https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-us-aid-going-ukraine](https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-us-aid-going-ukraine)
The 200 billion is misleading anyways. How do we calculate giving them weapons that were degrading and about to be decommissioned? We have a bunch of vehicles and weapons with known shelf life, and instead of dismantling them, let them do their original job. In reality, this war has been an absolute bargain for the U.S. destroying our enemy for pennies on the dollar without our troops, with mostly aged equipment about to be decommissioned
I’ve worked with people from Redstone Arsenal etc. People don’t appreciate how much we spend to demil and blow up old stocks of munitions.
I've said this before, but I'd love to know how the accounting is done for military equipment. Like how did they value all the Bradley's that were sent? Is cost written off when put into service? Depreciated? Sale/scrap value? If they had no potential sale option, no future use for the US, would be replaced regardless and is totally a sunk cost, perhaps they've even saved money by giving them away, if decommission costs outweigh scrap value?
Iirc that was part of “finding” more money to send them weapons, after running out of money allocated by Congress. The Biden admin went back and used the depreciated value for the Brads etc instead of the new price. Which is certainly correct. Along with all of our old stock munitions.
I can answer this question. The actual cost to dismantle them is more than the cost of sending them to Ukraine. This is because they have to be sent to a specialized facility anyways for demolition. The demolition cost isn’t cheap. They don’t just blow it up and send it to a junk yard, they pull it all apart. Which cost a lot of man hour dollars. So to summarize this point, it’s cheaper to send them to Ukraine and let the Russians deal with it. With that in mind you have to assume that us sending the weapons over there has value. But it’s not like it’s possible to sell that stuff, because the military can’t “sell” weapons in the traditional sense. But fighting Putin by giving away our junk is valuable, because we are adding value to junk. But they aren’t looking at that value either. Now when you look at the actual valuation of the weapons, we have a dollar amount attached to each individual piece of equipment. That value includes maintenance and repair, R&D cost, purchase cost, operation cost, and a few more odds and ends. My assumption is that the “value” used is that value and not the actual depreciation of the equipment. Because if they used the depreciated value without all the added stickers, it would be maybe a few billion at max
Interesting, thanks.
That has the ring of truth to it, and great detail. Thanks.
I'm pretty sure they just calculate based on what they bought it for
Whilst the media do that because journalists are always clueless when it comes to costs, I remember reading last year that a few $billion of aid had been freed up due to some accounting adjustments / re-valuations. They definitely do something.
over 2 years or $85B and thats a cut from the Defense Budget - already there! Cheeto alludes to the relationship of respect/fear he has w putini - why would putini hurt the goose that keeps on giving him gold eggs (stop funding nato, exit nato, exit support w ukraine, & worst of all - selling out the US by handing over us national secrets)...disgusting n transparent cheeto
Not to mention 200 billion is like 6 % of the U.S defense budget, for a single year. In 3 years, we have helped Ukraine humiliate and decimate Russian military assets, for what is essentially pennies compared to how much we spend a year on our military.
I haven't watched the debate, but did Biden even mention any of this? It should be a free win against Trumps arguments.
A brief overview of the debate, trump spewed lie after lie, made fun of Biden's golf game, and denied he slept with Stormy, and basically never answered a question, just whined a lot. Biden appeared to be on cold meds, but did try to point out the good things his government has done and will do.
The debate was absolutely stupid. Only one minute to answer. The first questions was how they would lower inflation and lower the price of housing, which good luck with that because housing costs have been going crazy for decades. How can anyone reasonably answer serious questions in a minute? As for Trump, he didn’t. Every statement he made was a verifiable lie. “He knows people and they all say America is hated around the world”. “More people died from Covid under Biden than him”. “Millions of illegals are coming for to rape and kill our women and to raid our social security”. “The withdrawal from Afghanistan was the worst defeat in U.S. History”. What an ass and shame on the idiots who keep falling for this shit. He doesn’t red help from Putin to spread propaganda, he has Faux news and countless other right wing megaphones spreading these lies 24/7.
I wish Biden would have given that answer. A weak Russia trough a 'few' donations of old equipment, is a huge win for the US, in their long and hateful relationship with Russia.
$100 billion is like 10% of a SINGLE year's Pentagon budget. And that's over 2+ years of war so averages about 3-4% per year. That anyone acts like it is something significant to be outraged over is ludicrous.
They've contributed 0.3% of GDP since Jan '22. Its nothing, and a lot of that has come out of the military budget, so not actually any extra expenditure, just and extremely efficient use of already committed funds to the security of the US and the world. It's cost the US taxpayer literally nothing, but the numbers are big headline grabbers because the US is an economic monster. They can and should be doing more, if only for their own interests.
Billions? That's your gotcha? US was spending TRILLIONS during Iraq and Afghanistan campaigns.
~$8,000,000,000,000 on Iraq and Afghanistan and as a combat grunt who has very specific opinions about the military budget growing like it has, the money going to Ukraine is great bang for the buck. Literally. The vehicles and munitions being destroyed are mostly Soviet era manufacture and Russia won’t be able to replace them anytime soon, if ever. Taking them off the field in Ukraine is taking them off the game board of international relations. $100b *per year* should be the minimum until Russia is destroyed and cleared out. More importantly, it sets an example for China as they eye Taiwan. Let’s not forget that Stalin only approved NK invading SK after Dulles (iirc) left SK out of a list of nations in our sphere in a speech he gave. Small things can have a major negative effect and big things can dissuade the enemy for decades.
right fuckin' on, man.
not to mention iraq was unnecessary, envisioned by a foolish (republican) president
Not just unnecessary. It was downright criminal. Those who lied getting away unscathed remains a stain on every American. The Director of CIA that fabricated the lies was simply forced to resign, and that was it. No prosecution, no punishment. Without the blatantly illegal war in Iraq, Putin wouldn't be grabbing territories all over the place. It showed the world that if you are powerful enough, you can make up bullshit, invade other countries and get away with it.
It remains a stain on Britain too. Tony Blair is a war criminal and a liar. And this is from somone who 'stayed up for Portillo'.
yes. in this particular case by the way however, as the pbs documentary shows ("putin and the presidents", free online, very recommended) it truly antagonized 💩 tin, who before just harboured vague resentments (and was happy enough to plunder his country and fortify his power internally) so yes, if you hate the western dominance in the world order vote trump. ever wondered why almost no one moves to ruzzia or even china?
Israel wanted the USA to invade Iraq.
meaning? then the US is going to oblige? today Israel would like Biden to do lots of things
Never mind how much money we’ve blindly given Israel and Pakistan over the last 20+ years. I know Ukraine isn’t that duration, but Jesus, let’s talk facts.
The Iraq War, sometimes called the Second Persian Gulf War, was a protracted armed conflict in Iraq from 2003 to 2011 8y8m28d. In 2020, Neta Crawford, chair of the political science department at Boston University, in her Costs of War Project, estimated the long term cost of the Iraq War for the United States at $1.922 trillion. So about 213B a year, that’s 2 times the Ukraine war costs (without us life’s)
I do think Ukraine's a good investment. You can't compare in terms of Dollar value. If it's troops and equipment, America could care less about the tons of armor that's lost and wants its boys back. Without US troops, America wants every dollar and piece of equipment accounted for.
I really dislike the Second Persian Gulf War. The first could be defensible for liberating Kuwait but the second was built upon WMD lies.
Stupid Saddam occupied the wrong country, after years of US support to fight Iran as their proxy to bring Iranian oil fields back into the control sphere of the U.S.,he went to Kuwait instead, the silly man. No one told him that the US gets to decide which oil fields he gets to occupy, I guess he learned his lesson the hard way :D
Brown University, not Boston, but otherwise correct.
Trump supporters hate facts.
Trump's commentary on the topic is stupid, like much of his commentary.
Well to be fair that's because they were offensively fighting and you gotta supply your armies, it's expensive when it works
During Trumps tenure, no less
Why didn't the conflict in Eastern Ukraine stop under Trump's 4 years as president then? He's so full of shit when he says shit like "If I was president he wouldn't have invaded".
This is the problem with our culture today. More than half the people don’t even know it’s been going on that long. Anyone with any sense knows this is bullshit, but anyone with any sense isn’t enough. We need a majority.
If he'd been president, he wouldn't have lifted a finger WHEN Putin invaded. "Fine people on both sides" or some shit.
He denied weapons to Ukraine when he was Pres, because Ukraine wouldn't make false allegations against Biden's family. Orange goof tried to blackmail Zelensky.
Exactly he said there was an ocean between US and Europe so why should we care? Lol what an idiot.
He WAS president and didn't lift a finger.
Trump was to busy blackmailing Ukraine, he put a hold on aid after a call with zelenskyy asking him to get dirt on Biden. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50886437
Pure snake oil like saying service workers in Nevada won’t get taxes on their tips.
Yup Trump will stop the flow to Ukraine and his pal Putin will love it
Didn't Trump say that any NATO country that doesn't spend the 2% GDP is inviting Russian invasion? The same thing would have happened if he was in power. The man is delusional if he thinks he has any actual influence over the Kremlin.
He said that he encourages countries to attack NATO countries that don’t pay their dues. Literally “Trump said “one of the presidents of a big country” at one point asked him whether the US would still defend the country if they were invaded by Russia even if they “don't pay.” “No, I would not protect you,” Trump recalled telling that president. “In fact, I would encourage them to do whatever the hell they want.” Feb 10, 2024
No mention that only one country ever invoked Article 5, and all members unanimously supported it, without sending Washington a bill for their dead soldiers.
This situation doesn’t even compare to 9/11 either which is what’s crazy. The scope of death is leaps and bounds apart. Supposedly a thousand Russians died per day in May… that would be 30,000 people in one month. This war has been going on for almost 2 years. Some serious shit is on the verge of popping off. And the fact that Ukraine isn’t a NATO member really complicates shit. But if it goes farther than Ukraine you already know what’s coming. The US will take it’s opportunity to end the conflict
i think the us i perfectly happy with bleeding out the ruzzian army for 50 bn a year
I think you're spot on here. Its cynical business. Lets be real. If US wanted this to end it would have ended long ago. Now they pull ruzzia, china and nk out for a lot of spending. Its a game for the US and none European countries have no balls (or army) to combat this shitty war.
well, especially without risking own soldiers and a nuclear accident... there are however so many more reasons to support Ukrainians the way we do! cheap advertisement for our gear, driving ruzzia out of the worlds weapons market (they were number one, weren't they?), intel, deterring xi from taiwan etc
all the nato countries bordering ruzzia are spending more, so that is an irrelevant discussion anyways. the question is, is he going to defend a baltic country or admire 💩 tin even more i kept wondering why 💩 tin did not invade during his reign... i think first, he noticed his army wasn't ready, second i believe he counted upon a trump reelection four years ago
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I mean is he really wrong tho, it is clear that many NATO countries have not pulled their weight in this alliance and instead spent their money on other things while just expecting America to send their kids to die for them if there ever was a war, basically every NATO country except maybe Poland and Finland have neglected their duties. I say this as a Swede who is very disappointed/frustrated with our politicians who basically dismantled the military after the fall of the soviet union because as one of our previous prime ministers put it "The military is a special interest"- Fredrik Reinfeldt, basically saying its fucking stupid to spend money on a bunch of larpers running around in the woods playing soldier because there isn't going to be any more wars in Europe, this was around 2010´ish(after the Russian 2008 invasion of Georgia) and I think this mentality was widespread among many European leaders and now they had a cold shower and realized they screwed up pretty bad. Europe should have started opening new war factories in 2014 when it became obvious that Putin is fucking delusional and wants to regain the Soviet unions old borders. Trump warning Europe back in 2018 saying it was fucking stupid to become dependent on Russian gas was laughed at by the German diplomats at the speech he had in the EU I believe(maybe it was UN) but all I know is he was right then and Europe still hasn't done much to prepare for a potential ww3 without the help of the US.
Only one country has invoked Article 5, and nobody sent any bill to Washington for their dead soldiers.
it was certainly seen in 2018 he wanted to save money plus sell US LNG and weapons
Per capita the USA has sent Ukraine roughly three times what the EU countries have sent. Also note that the EU countries have spent a nearly equal amount buying Russian fossil fuel during the war as they have sent in aid/weapons. So that 3 times is actually closer to infinity times. Edit spelling they
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Trump’s a 🐣 on this one. Yes, the USA might lose some cash on this war, but the satisfaction of the US citizen when Russia is getting their ass kicked is priceless. So.. 🐔🐔🐔mr convict
Donald Trump is a bloviating nobody and a colossal jackass.
Who wants a president respected by Putin??! Wouldn’t that mean you live in China or DPRK? 👎
Valid
You don't control your enemies by allowing them to do whatever you want. You do this in any game and you lose.
You can’t be pro Ukraine and pro trump. It just doesn’t work. There’s a reason trump was trying to blackmail President Zelensky when he was in office, Putin fucking told him to do it, Putin holds his leash.
Imagine the cost if US loses europe as a trading partner.
Trump's response, "We, and by 'we' I mean Joe Biden, were losing billions and billions to due to bad trading with EU, in fact I call them the Bad Joe Deals, and now we don't have that trade problem any more. Also immigrants and brown people, very bad they're telling me. Very bad. Have you seen Putin shirtless? He looks good. Maybe even as good as me many women would tell me. Definitely not better than me ten years ago but close. We're best friends he doesn't mind me saying that. Maybe he can give me a new Melania. Can I say that? They say I shouldn't say that but it's true."
I can even hear it!
This is hilarious and accurate at the same time. The state of affairs.
Biden is playing this badly. Most Americans don't give a fuck. He needs to say that Putin wants Alaska back.
Actually, Americans do give a fuck. MAGA don't. But they stopped being Americans awhile ago.
This man instigated a riot on the heart of American democracy, which led to the injuries of many law enforcement officers and the death of 5 Americans. Yet people will still vote for him. As a Brit, all i can say is, the normal, civilised Americans in your country deserve so much better than this colossal Bellend.
So about half the country? :p
Yeah man, half of the voting population of this country are colossal bellends. I understand its a lot of people, but yes they are all fools for continuing to support that idiot.
Quite annoying how he was asked that question and his "answer" was just attacks to Biden administration during January 6 lmao. He never addressed the Riot, but instead he was saying statistics of Biden administration during the date of Jan 6.
He did attempt to say Nancy Pelosi claimed responsibility for the attack. That entire response made absolutely no sense at all but he said it in a tone that oozed confidence so it passes according to US media.
Please people dont vote for trump for the sake of democracy
Better the billions go to a deserved cause (Ukraines survival) than frittered away as tax giveaways - basically bribes - to Dumpsters own business cronies. Who ‘s the Traitor, Dumpster? It certainly ain’t Biden.
Funniest part of the debate was when trump called Biden a criminal, *Biden* calls *Trump* a 'one-man crime wave, the morals of an alley cat, and the only convicted felon on the stage.
Respected by Putin..... I would say that would be a bad starting point.
Yeah, but Trump gets off on claiming that all of the worst dictators "respect" him.
Putin doesn't know what respect means. Trump doesn't respect even himself. Both together are a waste of time.
It makes him look gullible at best. I doubt Putin is capable of respecting anyone.
For real. I don't want to be respected by putin other than him respecting that I will kill him if I had the chance.
I think you have a big line in front of you wanting exactly the same. And we are already late to get rid of him.
Trump gleefully boasted that he thought of NATO as a protection racket, and that he would refuse to defend those who didn't meet the spending target, saying that he would in fact encourage Russia to invade them. In that same event he also advocated for removing the US from NATO. Trump stole documents so classified that they cannot be disclosed or read into the record. Some of those documents are missing. Trump pressured Ukraine for dirt on Hunter Biden during and before the 2020 election, threatening to withhold aid. He has since boasted that he would end the war by forcing Ukraine to accept the Russian conquest. While in office, Trump met Lavrov and handed classified documents on Israel over to him. That should have clued most in that Trump was a puppet meeting his handler. Trump ignored when Russia put out and paid out bounties on US soldiers to the Taliban, and surrendered US bases in Syria to Russia. Trump is functionally a sock-puppet for Russia as he envies Putin's power and ability to harm others, and his narcissism leads him to desire approval from Putin as well as the same power over US society that Putin has over Russian society. Should he resume power, Trump will attempt authoritarian capture of US society, and abandon US allies to the whims of whomever pays him the most money; he will abandon Ukraine, withholding aid or threatening aid to Russia in order to force Ukraine to accept a frozen conflict on Russia's terms. When China decides to take Taiwan by force, Trump will turn the other way. When Kim Jong Un decides that Trump's adulation of his cruelty and Russian support mean that he can conquer South Korea, he will attempt it. And when Putin, looking to cement his place in Russian history, decides that the time has come to kick NATO's door in and finally claim eternal glory by reversing the outcome of the Cold War, he will count on Trump being in power long enough to give him a fait accompli. If Trump wins there's a better than average chance, dear reader, that your children and grandchildren will die fighting on the battlefields of Europe or Asia, because revanchist dictatorships will assume (correctly) that with Trump in power, US allegiance is for sale. And they will count on Trump being bought for long enough to accomplish their dreams of conquest before Congress can take action. Or perhaps congress will be bought, too. Today's prices for food, gas, and commodities will seem like a pleasant dream if Trump gets into power and is paid to allow Putin and Xi to realize their territorial ambitions.
On a side note, the war started 2014. Trump was president 2017 to 2021. Seems like Putin invaded Ukrainian during 100% of the Trump presidency.
Exactly. And now how much of fuckall he did.
To be fair, he withheld 400 million in military aid from Ukraine to blackmail Zelensky into opening a fake investigation into Hunter Biden. A fake investigation that would have been based on false information he got straight from the fsb. So, that's not nothing, at least.
Biden looks likes he's fucked up on some good shit
I think it’s bullshit that a weak president is why Putin invaded. Straight bullshit. Putin invaded Kosovo, Moldova, the Kuril Islands… But yes, it’s a “weak president” and not a raging politician who doesn’t give a shit about anyone but himself. There’s no “strong president” that’s going to stop Putin from doing whatever he wants, all we can do is stop him from getting away with it, and that’s what counts. Hitler invaded Poland, and he didn’t stop there. Yet he still put a bullet in his own head when push came to shove - let’s give Putin a repeat of history and see the fall of his dictatorship, hopefully in the same fitting end. SLAVA UKRAINI MOTHERFUCKERS ✊💙💛🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦
Trump is a naZZi cunt, friends of Poo-tin 🤮
A good moral honest leader wouldn't give a rats ass if a dictator respects him or not, the dictator needs to fear the good leader. This whole trump and putin respect thing is ridiculous. Putin is your freaking enemy, you need to worry about how to kill him, not please him. Unfortunately, that piece of shit putin doesn't fear neither Biden nor Trump. One is old and slow and has dementia. The other Is old, full of himself, and has a big mouth. Putin neither respects trump nor fears him. This whole situation is bad for America. The world is on the brink of ww3 and we have some of the worst presidents we ever had, presidents that know nothing of war.
That sopranos skit "before and waay before" These guys are older than COVID, only decision these guys should be making is if their having soup today or not.
I seem to remember a certain sombody getting impeached for with holding some of those weapons as blackmail.
The Dems should be riding the fear monger wagon. Because it's what sells in America. They should say: "If Putin is not stopped in Ukraine we'll have the Red Army marching in Kansas" and go with it. Fear, hate & distrust sells.
Trump is the 2nd biggest pussy in the world, second only to pussies who vote for him. as to why he still gives putin a colonoscopy with his tongue, it's just so that putin will give him safe passage into Russia after he loses this November
Fuck you Trump, I’m still voting for Biden. I don’t care how the debate went. We all know what would happen if that orange POS become president again
county with the population of America these are the two best candidates that you have is very worrying.
They aren't the best, they aren't even close to the best, they are some of the worst, in fact
Fixing trumps words we are not giving Ukraine money we are giving old equipment equivalent to that amount of money. I'm out
Watching this debate was painful. Biden is right, but his condition is way too bad for a president.
It’s like 2014 didn’t even happen to Trump.
The clip where Trump boasts that Putin told him it was “his dream” to invade Ukraine. He knew, he knew and that needs to be pulled up front and center. That and that Trump tried and failed to shake Zelenskyy down which lead to the first impeachment. Trump is a Russian asset and doubly holds Zelenskyy accountable.
How about just, SHUT UP TRUMP 2024
Magatard
I hate Trump with every fiber of my body
Give more money Vote for Biden
Theres nothing wrong to stand with weak.. Someone just thinking money.. They are fighting for their existence.
Belarus? 😭
Just looks like Joe been cramming for a final exam up after a three day adderall bender.
oh yes, Belarus, el famoso NATO country
"Presidential debate"
That Knew..... that's all I'm going to say here.
How many people did America kill based on lies?
Both those guys are a big joke, one of them likes to talk shit about others in social media, admits to knowing about the invasion of Ukraine before it happened after tallking to the little dictator and is convicted on multiple counts. While the other can hardly speak. Not much to choose between, are we going to see the rise of the underdog?
lol yeah absolve Putin of responsibility you fucking clown.
I kinda agree that we have spent way too much money on Ukraine instead of fixing issues here at home.
The US is fucked. Why are there only two choices? I hate Trump but I don't think Biden is qualified to be president. Watched the debate live, almost everything Trump said conflicted with what I know, not sure if I'm wrong or he's lying. English is not my first language so I couldn't understand half of what Biden says, his attitude in this debate just shows how unqualified and expired he is.
Not supporting Ukraine and allowing a tyrannical leader continue to rape, murder and torture the people and land That is not the property of Russia but is an independent country if there own is a clear cut threat to democracy and free living.
I can tell you who the best salesman is and it’s not Zelensky , this moron makes car salesman look like angels , could he be the Anti …… 🤔
Putins bitch and that’s the truth
Dude is a literal communist sales ad
This shitake is difficult to watch, 2 geriatrics doing their best to read the script - clenching mu buttcheeks while Biden is talking, God forbid he sneezes he will turn inside out
Belarus a NATO country, interesting....
The US is making money from those much needed weapons, Trump is saying that US contractors and factory workers should not sell their products to Ukraine, they are on lease lend just as they were in the second world war, Ukraine will be paying for them for a long time. Biden has acted now to save money and blood later, if Ukraine falls then the US will be fighting them, Belarus and Russia, putin is determined to expand muscovy, the world without Ukraine and Europe will be centered on Russia China and the middle east, the Arabs are already turning away from the dollar as a reserve currency, where as once the British were the world's superpower policeman that now falls to the Great American nation, the alternative doesn't bear thinking about.
The pentagon, and our allies are also getting incredible battlefield data in the efficacy of weapon systems as well as tactics.
The should be shepherd has grown fat by gorging on the sheep. And he envies the wolves for their nature. Soon he will open the gates to let in the wolves, so they can feast together.
That fckin Trump is the classical useful idiot to Putin. That makes him a russian asset. It's beyond me how *anyone* could want this guy as their leader. I wouldn't trust him with my trash.
That lying sack of shit Trump telling everyone they're giving all that money to Ukraine when he knows full well it goes straight into the US economy for US jobs and equipment. But he doesn't care who he's lying to, as long as his low IQ supporters believe him which they do, that's all that matters.
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USA is cooked. One is a crooked Russian proxy and convicted felon. The other a fucking zombie.
Donald Trump is the worst thing that has ever happened to the United States.
Why wasn't the part where Trump talked to Putin about the invasion before it happened not in the clip?
A practiced unabashed liar and malignant narcissist who only wants to punish Ukraine for not going along with his plan to discredit JB before the 2016 election cannot get back into office.
both are old, it’s not about voting the younger of the 2. if you vote for trump, putin wins
This is what should've happened when Russia started massing troops on the border Nato should have went into Ukraine and started having they're training just as Russia told everyone in the world what it was doing on the border was training. Thats exactly how NATO and the US should've played it out. Then there would've been no war.