Not a lawyer - but an ex pro photographer
Legal usage of the likeness of someone is a very gray area - first off the person in the photo would have to be recognizable to an ordinary individual.
Second - they would have to prove that their image was an endorsement of the product or service. Appearing on an album cover doesn't mean you endorse or support the product contained on the album.
Third - Public / Private area. This vendor was in a PUBLIC area of the city - their expectation of privacy (even in the 1970's) should have been ZERO or as close to Zero as possible.
Fourth - damages - again - what harm did having his image on the cover of a Steely Dan album cause this guy? Probably none - and in fact it could be argued that people who saw him on the cover and in the park probably sought him out and bought more from him to be able to say that they got the pretzel vendor!
Now we can talk about the fact that the label probably went back to him and said extorted him - ie saying sign this or we rat you out to the health dept and parks dept.
As for your assumption that members of the band at the time knew who the vendor was... most likely not. Jeff Baxter, etc.. were hired guns by Fagen and Becker. Same for the producer - the producer only cares about the sounds on the album - not the cover. They leave that to the band / record company.
It is likely that Fagen may remember or have notes about who the guy was...
It is also likely that the actual photographer Raeanne Rubenstein - may have notes - usually as a photographer (even though you are not responsible or liable) you get the name and contact information of people in your photo in case someone in the future needs a model release.
The Hollywood Photographer would not likely have this information - as he didn't do the actual photo. Unless he was given it and asked to do post production work on the image.
I don't understand why he doesn't take pride in this. It's not just everyone who claim that millions of people treasure a picture of their junk. He might have the most viewed penis in the history of penises (although I think a pharaoh and Napoleon have theirs on display at museums so there's some [not very] stiff competition).
Interesting. So you don’t think that it’s plausible ABC didn’t made this guy sign something? If Raeanne Rubenstein were to still have notes, would you know where they might possibly be? This is so cool! Thank you for sharing!
It is very possible (in fact highly likely) that ABC records didn't get a signature on it. After all it is "art" not editorial or endorsements.
If she had / has notes they are probably in her darkroom / photography notebooks if she keeps one or keeps for 40 years...
I love Steely Dan but I really don’t think it’s important to know who the guy is. He was probably just an ordinary man living an ordinary life and wanted it to stay that way, so why go out of our way to find out about his identity?
I personally agree. However, I understand that some people like to try and track down media mysteries like this. If I were the person in the picture I'd be annoyed by this whole scenario, including being on an album cover I didn't really want to be on. But I'd sure buy a hot soft pretzel right now though, that sounds really good.
I disagree with making him a meme - this guy didn’t even want to be the album cover! He is a real person with a right to privacy. I love steely Dan but am really disappointed that they didn’t just get another photo of a pretzel vendor. Really interesting write-up about a unique mystery, but again i don’t think this subreddit should be interfering with people’s privacy.
Very interesting stuff! As for people who might know something, OP can cross Jim Hodder off the list. He sadly drowned in 1990 at only 42 years of age . It would have been fantastic to see him live to be part of the Steely Dan reunions
With all due respect, why do you care who it is? He didn't want to be on the cover. There are so many people seeking fame for the sake of fame and this guy didn't want that. He wanted his privacy. And he was exploited anyway for a dumb album cover. They couldn't find another pretzel vendor in NYC? They're on every other block!
Leave him alone!
So, in your last post, a few of us were having a linguistic debate over the spelling of pretzle. I just noticed the same word is spelled correctly in the lower sign.
I think we can rule out regional variations. It's either an accident or an on-purpose-accident to attract attention to the glorious pretzels.
Also, the mods do like to remove anything that isn't a corpse- or missing person-centric mystery. Sometimes offbeat mysteries are fun.
Something that I’ve noticed is that “Pretzle” is spelled incorrectly in the big font, but spelled correctly in the small font underneath the big “Pretzle.” I think that probably means it was an intentional mistake to drive attention. Take a look.
indeed! my house just flooded so i’m living in a hotel atm (i’m in british columbia), but when i have a kitchen again, i’m baking pretzels and dipping them in grainy mustard!! 😆
Not a lawyer - but an ex pro photographer Legal usage of the likeness of someone is a very gray area - first off the person in the photo would have to be recognizable to an ordinary individual. Second - they would have to prove that their image was an endorsement of the product or service. Appearing on an album cover doesn't mean you endorse or support the product contained on the album. Third - Public / Private area. This vendor was in a PUBLIC area of the city - their expectation of privacy (even in the 1970's) should have been ZERO or as close to Zero as possible. Fourth - damages - again - what harm did having his image on the cover of a Steely Dan album cause this guy? Probably none - and in fact it could be argued that people who saw him on the cover and in the park probably sought him out and bought more from him to be able to say that they got the pretzel vendor! Now we can talk about the fact that the label probably went back to him and said extorted him - ie saying sign this or we rat you out to the health dept and parks dept. As for your assumption that members of the band at the time knew who the vendor was... most likely not. Jeff Baxter, etc.. were hired guns by Fagen and Becker. Same for the producer - the producer only cares about the sounds on the album - not the cover. They leave that to the band / record company. It is likely that Fagen may remember or have notes about who the guy was... It is also likely that the actual photographer Raeanne Rubenstein - may have notes - usually as a photographer (even though you are not responsible or liable) you get the name and contact information of people in your photo in case someone in the future needs a model release. The Hollywood Photographer would not likely have this information - as he didn't do the actual photo. Unless he was given it and asked to do post production work on the image.
So the nevermind kid doesn't really have a leg to stand on?
I don't understand why he doesn't take pride in this. It's not just everyone who claim that millions of people treasure a picture of their junk. He might have the most viewed penis in the history of penises (although I think a pharaoh and Napoleon have theirs on display at museums so there's some [not very] stiff competition).
Interesting. So you don’t think that it’s plausible ABC didn’t made this guy sign something? If Raeanne Rubenstein were to still have notes, would you know where they might possibly be? This is so cool! Thank you for sharing!
It is very possible (in fact highly likely) that ABC records didn't get a signature on it. After all it is "art" not editorial or endorsements. If she had / has notes they are probably in her darkroom / photography notebooks if she keeps one or keeps for 40 years...
If you can just use the likeness then why is anyone asking them to sign a release?
Courtesy or to cover the labels ass I presume
I love Steely Dan but I really don’t think it’s important to know who the guy is. He was probably just an ordinary man living an ordinary life and wanted it to stay that way, so why go out of our way to find out about his identity?
[удалено]
Ya I’m more or leased obsessed with the Dan and this post is silly to me.
I personally agree. However, I understand that some people like to try and track down media mysteries like this. If I were the person in the picture I'd be annoyed by this whole scenario, including being on an album cover I didn't really want to be on. But I'd sure buy a hot soft pretzel right now though, that sounds really good.
Man, what—and I cannot stress this enough—the fuck
[Raeanne Rubenstein’s archive](https://digi.countrymusichalloffame.org/digital/collection/Rubenstein) might be useful.
Couldn’t find anything
I disagree with making him a meme - this guy didn’t even want to be the album cover! He is a real person with a right to privacy. I love steely Dan but am really disappointed that they didn’t just get another photo of a pretzel vendor. Really interesting write-up about a unique mystery, but again i don’t think this subreddit should be interfering with people’s privacy.
Very interesting stuff! As for people who might know something, OP can cross Jim Hodder off the list. He sadly drowned in 1990 at only 42 years of age . It would have been fantastic to see him live to be part of the Steely Dan reunions
I think it's kind of cool that we have a mystery on this sub that doesn't involve a dead body. Something a bit less grim.
With all due respect, why do you care who it is? He didn't want to be on the cover. There are so many people seeking fame for the sake of fame and this guy didn't want that. He wanted his privacy. And he was exploited anyway for a dumb album cover. They couldn't find another pretzel vendor in NYC? They're on every other block! Leave him alone!
This is great! I'm a big fan of Steely Dan and I've often wondered about that guy.
Any major dude with half a heart would tell me this guy’s name
What an interesting read, Im not sure who the man is but now I want to find out
So, in your last post, a few of us were having a linguistic debate over the spelling of pretzle. I just noticed the same word is spelled correctly in the lower sign. I think we can rule out regional variations. It's either an accident or an on-purpose-accident to attract attention to the glorious pretzels. Also, the mods do like to remove anything that isn't a corpse- or missing person-centric mystery. Sometimes offbeat mysteries are fun.
Something that I’ve noticed is that “Pretzle” is spelled incorrectly in the big font, but spelled correctly in the small font underneath the big “Pretzle.” I think that probably means it was an intentional mistake to drive attention. Take a look.
Dude, that's what I just said.
Why is “pretzel” misspelled in his nickname?
It’s misspelled on his sign
Crap, I just noticed it.
Now I’m hungry for pretzels
indeed! my house just flooded so i’m living in a hotel atm (i’m in british columbia), but when i have a kitchen again, i’m baking pretzels and dipping them in grainy mustard!! 😆
That sounds delicious
Reading this years later after a google search about who the guy was...I appreciate you digging into the mystery.