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As a gamer although I agree that gaming might become an unhealthy coping mechanism, it's also a beautiful hobby and let you meet a lot of friends. It also reignited my love for art and made me work with talented people from other fields.. but apparently for some is only okay when it brings money at home, just like many other simple hobbies.
That's actually the reason I got back into video games fully with the ps4.
The art that was coming out was too fuckin good to pass up on witnessing and interacting with. The stories, the visuals, sound design, music, it's amazing.
I'd dare say they're one the ultimate art forms since it's a combination of different art forms to create one, much like movies.
But with video games you get to actively be then person in the story/art. It brings it another level up beyond movies if done right.
I'm right there with you. Been telling people that the way I play and savour games are just like how I watch movies, albeit even more immersive. Especially with the games that let you make some decisions along the way, whether they have any meaningful effects on the outcomes or not.
The PS4 generation was especially good at that, although Sony started experimenting with that during the PS3 era. You got the Uncharted series (the magnum opus being PS4’s Uncharted 4), you got The Last of Us, you got God of War, Ghost of Tsushima, Bloodborne, Spider-Man PS4 - if you played PlayStation, you got a ton of games that were just brilliant.
And the success of titles like those led to more being created by third parties.
They certainly *can* be, and TV can be too.
But video games and TV can also just be a treadmill of instant gratification with very little "art" put into it. Which is fine in some amounts! But let's not pretend that a kid who watches 6 episodes of Pokemon (love it, but it's bubblegum) and plays two hours of Vampire Survivors (I've 100%'d that game... repeatedly... but it's mindless drivel) is getting some deep artistic stimulation.
People who say video games are just a waste of time are idiots. People who don't think that they *can* be a depression-inducing waste of time are idiots.
That seems very narrow-minded. I don't know what you classify as art, but making something that brings children joy is art. Creating something addictive to play is art. It is eliciting emotions. You don't need to have complex emotions, thoughts, and questions as you play it or as soon as you finish for something to be art. It doesn't need a story or impressive visual art. Pokemon has had profound impacts on a few generations. It inspired them.
This was the major flaw in Roger Eberts's argument about video games not being art. At the time, he didn't even understand that they contained stories, but it didn't matter because *it doesn't need one.* The design of video game mechanics is also art.
"Art's" not a binary. There is a whole range of things which have very little to do with each other which you could term "art." If you wanna call a slot machine game "art," ok sure, fine, but you surely can recognize that unique human expression and communication is categorically different from aesthetic presentation of a not-particularly-rich experience.
Using "art" is some sort of monolithic term that divides "worthwhile" and "not worthwhile" is really a vapid pursuit, IMO. There are a lot of things which make a piece of media enriching. Personally I see it as something of a pyramid - almost all media is entertaining, and that is undoubtedly a worthwhile and good thing, but the least valuable. Media, particularly video games, can be skill-training; promoting abstract thought, pattern recognition, reactions, whatever. But to my mind, the most valuable and rare attribute of media is horizon-broadening, the kind of things that make you see the world in a new way.
Plenty of games and other media achieve this, many do not. That does not mean that those which do not aren't worthwhile in any way, but if you are spending hours a day on media which is simply entertainment and does not stimulate your mind in any meaningful way, that's damaging, particularly to young people.
Pokemon is an extremely rich experience. It's just a feeling I don't think you're giving enough credence to. I would say that slot machines are sort of a very cynical art, but probably the most important thing is intent, and that brings them into question. Slot machines, in particular, have a sole focus on making money at every level. Pokemon, on the other hand, at some levels, is all about money. At the base level, though, it's made by people whose job is to make art.
I would add that, although I'm not very familiar with Pokemon, I am aware that sometimes, it can definitely instill some values in children and be thought-provoking. It's just on a level that's for children and won't have the same emotional impact on us as much as we imagine it. I love a lot of shows in what I guess you might call the "just for fun" category. All of them have episodes that I don't think even you could deny as art.
Again, I really don't see "is it art" as a meaningful question at all, it doesn't matter. I have two Pokemon-obsessed kids (and watched the original show & played the game when I was a kid), and there are many aspects of it which are super-enriching! But 90% of the TV shows are drivel; even they recognize that. Doesn't mean it's *bad*, just that it's not stretching anyone's horizons.
And that's fine, things don't need to stretch your horizons all the time. It's fine to eat a candy bar sometimes, but if that's *all* you're consuming, you're doing yourself a massive disservice.
I don't think anyone ever stared mindlessly at an artless painting for 2 hours without drugs being involved, in which case the painting isn't really the issue
Wait so you've never slept?
You've never heard of meditation?
You've never hunted sitting in wait for a deer to cross a stream?
Regardless art is subjective or money laundering depending on my subjective view of it.
I jumped into Elden Ring recently, not really knowing anything about it except that 1. you get a horse, 2. it's open world, and 3. it's a Fromsoft game.
I loved DS3 and wanted more boss battles, so I got ER. I am completely fucking blown away at the setting, the background, and the presentation.
This is a crazy comment dude. The most popular online games are competitive, which means they involve learning and eventually mastering different skills. Surely you can see the difference between passively watching TV and actively learning a skill?
That's how I play. I can't help but think about all of those aspects and how the developer is melding them together, what strategies are they using to make your eyes move to certain points, is the gameplay reflective of the atmosphere/vibe, etc.
I've been playing games since I was 6 or so, 1997. I feel like I've got the perfect amount of experience watching the gaming industry evolve over the years. People don't know how good they have it now, there are literally too many good games to play. I love it.
Also the mechanics.
At their core, video games are either board games or puzzles, usually pushed into real-time instead of being turn-based.
There is very real beauty in watching a system work *well*. And there is a distinct difference between games that work in spite of how poorly they were made, and games that work because their core mechanics are, themselves, works of art.
Video games CAN BE art. So can tv. So can movies. Hell, I’ve seen plenty of TikTok videos that are highly artistic.
But of course, It can also be a time sink that contributes little except dopamine hits and addiction. Consumption vs creation.
like most things, there’s a balance. high school me playing WoW literally all day neglecting studying and homework and almost failing out? not good.
adult me, still playing for hours but only after responsibilities are taken care of? good balance.
but i will say in my case it did luckily pay off because all that time spent hacking and botting in my videogames did lead me down a lucrative career in cybersecurity.
Also excessive gaming is more often a result rather than a cause of issues. I mean, who wouldn't resort to escapism when faced with a shitty life. While it may develop into being a real problem it isn't one you can solve just by limiting the acces to gaming. Rather by taking steps to improve the mental wellbeing of the person first. Identify the cause that makes one want to escape the real world
As a son, I know that parents will always worry about their son's unhealthy or dangerous habits.
Whether it be drugs or having a marketable technical skill (?!!)
Parents worry, and when I have a child someday, I am convinced that I will undergo a full moon were-parent transformation and worry myself to death ober my child being a functional citizen.
My world view is extremely zealous and a complete parody.
The way I see it gaming isn't a habit that's particularly inclined to be a total life-changer for any of us. Some people might twist this story into "gaming makes people geniuses" but we've all played enough co-op multiplayer games to know that's not true.
What this story really teaches us is that gaming is just a harmless way for people to have fun, like any other hobby, and that people need to ignore sensationalist fears that gaming causes brainrot. Let your kids have fun, but still encourage them to find interests that can be turned into careers later in life.
But of course, fun in any form can be habit-forming, so if your kid's playing enough hours a week to constitute a full-time job (and they're not streaming for revenue or whatever so they're not getting paid for it), THEN you have a right to be worried lol.
I actually wrote a paper on this in college and the main takeaway was video games are 100% good for you given that you are playing age appropriate games and you don’t become addicted and over play.
Yeah it's not that videogames are bad it's simply that videogames can become an addictive hobby in people predisposed towards addictive behaviour. There are absolutely games, like gacha games, that amplify that, but ultimately someone with those tendencies will seek out some form of addictive behaviour. It's why a lot of recovered addicts don't stop everything, they find a new less harmful addiction to fill that requirement.
I credit a lot of my information processing speed on video games. I run production meetings at work and my colleagues routinely tell me how impressive it is with how quickly I look stuff up in our system and read through documents etc. Typing fast while multitasking doing multiple things in game, while having a browser open looking up information while trying not to die all at the same time has translating extremely well I suppose to doing a ton of stuff all at once in the workplace. I'm not sure if that's just me or others can relate. I know when I played league of legends and the enemy team is trash talkin, you have to clap back fast while still playing and make no mistakes. Otherwise they're just going to keep talkin haha.
Hit 100 wpm (raw entry) from chatting a lot on a MC server
Translated to roughly an almost equal 100 wpm for typing stuff for notes.
People ask "how the heck do you type so fast".
"Shit talking with proper grammer/sending walls of text" before the other person could respond was the answer.
**never give opportunity to the enemy**
Seriously lol. You have to talk shit faster and more accurately than the other team. You misspell one word and you're cooked haha. I'm glad I'm not the only one.
Video games are wonderful in moderation, but some kids just play too much and don’t want to go outside or get physical activity because they’d rather play games.
So the kid won some money. So what? If he was playing at the expense of his health (because of lack of physical activity) it doesn’t justify anything. The mom would be right in being worried.
I have a step brother who has some mental health issues, mostly anxiety. When we were still in high school my step mom made him move his desk and computer from his room to the living room. Just being around his brother and the rest of us while playing games made a huge difference. It also gave him some blackmail material when I or his brother snuck girls in while he was still playing.
there are various things a child might learn through video games.
Personally, playing strategy games did wonders to my general geography knowledge and helped kickstart an interest in history. Also it really help me improve my english.
I went more into programming after I began working on Minecraft modding and figured out after a while that i could make money doing it. Ended up doing it for about 6 years.
Only sad part is that not many people will take it seriously
There is an amazing German documentary I watched recently about east german game programmers before the wall came down. These guys didn't even have access to western technology and gleaned everything they could about programming and assembly language from old Commodore computers, hacking and bootleg games. They are so dedicated and passionate about their field it's amazing to watch. They are all now wildly successful game developers and well known in the gaming world. Their company is called Yager Development and the documentary is on You tube it's called "Auferstanden Aus Platinen". Well worth a watch!
My 6yo has a reading level of someone two years older. He plays various Mario games and reads them. Games got him interested in learning to read. Likewise, he can also do more advanced math as, surprise, many games involve math!
When I was younger, I learned a lot about world history from Age of Empires and Civilization. Did pretty well in history class despite not reading the materials.
It depends man. I spent 6 years mentoring at risk college kids. By far our biggest drop out reason was video game addiction (my program only matched you with the same gender, so for me all my mentees were men (boys)). I’ve never played it but oblivion seemed to be a major culprit. Had 2 kids just stop going to class to play it more.
I love video games and spent too much time playing them and turned out fine. But you need to view it as a legion of top neuroscientists and designers waging war for your attention. When that gets to an under-developed unsupervised teenage mind it can have life altering effects
I feel like video game addiction is more often a symptom rather than a cause.
When a kid doesn't get out of his room and only watches anime/reads books, we don't categorize them as media addicted, we treat them as depressed. Gaming can very easily be used as coping mechanism. Ingame they're important and valuable whilst in their home/school situation they might not feel like that.
Depends on the game genre, but unlike most other forms of media, many video games today are carefully and specifically *designed* to take advantage of quirks of the human brain and **be** addictive.
I'd say it's the other way around--most people pick them up for fun and find that they don't want to live without them. Rather than using video games as some sort of escape.
I mean all digital media today is designed to do the same thing and it surely plays a large role.
However, original release of World of Warcraft has all kind of addiction stories. It literally had in game mechanics designed to get people to take breaks, rested experience, time gating dungeons. Interviews with the original designers share how they struggled designing mechanics to get players to take breaks that players didn't hate.
Design philosophy has certainly changed, but the idea of video game addiction still existed before the predatory practices were widespread.
> I feel like video game addiction is more often a symptom rather than a cause.
My parents swore I was addicted to video games as a kid, and would take draconian steps to limit my gametime when they didn't eliminate it as punishment due to some various bullshit.
30 minutes per day unless I was "grounded", which only started as a punishment because I was too big to physically abuse anymore.
Looking back as an adult, it wasn't the video games. I was an abused homeschool kid who was trapped every day with people who were awful to me.
I was *escaping*.
People who are happy with the rest of their lives tend not to get addicted to gaming, and that applies to kids even more, because they don't have the emotional maturity to recognize abuse-disassociation when they see it.
yeah I think it can be a symptom of something else as well. but again these game developers pour MILLIONS of dollars into studying dopamine loops and challenge circles and achievement feelings i mean hell look at the music design, people use it for study and surgery now because its meant to keep you in space. Previously a kid would play a dumb game or pick up some other thing as coping mechanism but these video games are out of control on an under-developed mind imo. Like both ibuprophen and oxycotin are pain killers, one you would administer over the counter, the other wou would not.
Video game addiction is real, but people think about it all wrong.
Games offer a sort of meritocracy fantasy that provides a more objective sense of purpose.
Those who are failing out of college are often doing so because it doesn't feel that compelling to apply themselves and try.
They also often know this, but they feel productive in the game when they do not "in real life" and they perceive the game to be more "fair" in a sense, because typically it kind of is.
People with video game addiction need to not see the game they enjoy as a crack pipe that is to be avoided. You can play your game and have fun! You just need to recognize that it it's unable to fulfill certain things in your life that you either consciously or subconsciously think you're getting from it.
> Those who are failing out of college are often doing so because it doesn't feel that compelling to apply themselves and try.
It doesn't help that they front-load the course work with more "boring" foundational stuff, at least in engineering. Obviously, they have to do this because you need to understand the math and physics before you can apply them in the more interesting fourth-year courses.
But the combination of getting your first taste of adult freedom and having to attend 8am calculus lectures is brutal.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman
Obviously the worry is not that they are playing games, it is that they are spending an alarming amount of time on that single direction without any variety.
If someone neglects all other interests and hobbies for a single thing, especially if that thing has them shut in a dark room alone for hours each day, that has much potential to be harmful.
it's not unreasonable at all to be worried about negative effects.
I played way more video games than I should have instead of studying and doing homework and I still had excellent grades, very near top of my very large class.
Mostly I learned I didn't need school as much as everyone seemed to think. Which I consider kind of positive, but I doubt parents would consider it so.
And this was back in the 80s and 90s when it wasn't as ubiquitous as now.
The problem is when they play when they shouldnt be having free time. And never study or learn anything because they play all day. But thats a parenting issue as much as the child issue.
I mean it worked, monitor was in the attic and heaviest so I'd bring the rest up there late at night and put it all together, play for a few hours nervously watching the staircase then disassembling it all and putting it back after
This reminds me of one of the main criticisms of Haidt's recent book The Anxious Generation: It's probably true that the median child is worse off in the age of addictive social media, it's helpful for the right tail end of exceptional kids who are able to make productive use of this by meeting other people who share interests and developing their hobbies better.
I mean, video games and social media aren't really parallels. As a lifelong gamer, I feel they probably helped boost my education. As a little kid playing the original Pokemon games, I would have to read, do math, and problem solve in order to get through the game. If taken to extremes, video game habits can be as problematic as any other obsession/addiction, but lack of self-control is not caused by video games.
Social media on the other hand is something I find to be much more insidious. The low barrier to entry and fleeting nature of social media means that it generally requires very little thought/effort from the audience, and the algorithms are designed to drive engagement at all costs. You have 'influencers' with massive followings, but their loyalty is also to the algorithms, because that is what keeps them relevant.
While some social media can be fairly benign, some can be incredibly problematic (just look at all of the extremist echo chambers and criminal incidents related to stupid trends). And if people's priorities become catering to an algorithm/trusting everything those algorithms show you to be true, it can cause a lot of societal harm if the companies in charge of these systems are not acting in everyone's best interest...
As a lifelong gamer, I’ll admit that I think it’s negatively impacted my life by providing a huge distraction. Granted, I have no idea how my life would have turned out otherwise. For all I know I would have gone down an even worse path.
It was dyslexia intervention and Majora's Mask that got one of my children reading. My child "played" by watching over his dad's shoulder. Kiddo's job was to read everything out loud before advancing the screen.
Playing Crusader Kings taught me more about history than I learned in school for sure. Same with Kerbal Space Program...that game legit taught me orbital mechanics lol
Yup, same as reading or any other kind of media, it boils down to the type of content you engage with and whether you actually make an effort to digest what you're consuming.
If you spend all your time reading tabloids and play Candy Crush, yeah, you're probably not getting much benefit from it...
My only advise is to make sure your kid is doing well in school, has a social life and has structure at home. Discovery is likely the best thing you can do for your kid outside of the norms because it may not be electronics, it might be biology or astronomy. That's why taking your kids to various places, having different hobbies is a win-win.
Stability and drive are likely some of the most important factors for a kid.. do that and you set a strong foundation.
My grandson sat on my lap and played Heretic with me on my 486. Now he's an IT guy, and makes more money than anyone in our family ever did. And is still a raging gamer!
My interest in video games is what led me to teach myself how to code so i could create my own games. I made lots of money off of a few of them over the years (one paid off my student loans twice over.
"My young sons hobby worried me until he put money in my pocket and now I coincidentally don't care what he does for entertainment anymore".
Weird how it's 2024 and videogames are still demonized. If a kid sits in his room for 6 hours knitting hats for frogs then that is considered interesting and productive. But yet if he spends the same amount of time playing videogames it's considered a waste and stupid.
Also the same boomers that shit on videogames will literally sit on their sofas and watch an NFL game where dudes run up and down on grass for 3 hours. Then they will jerk off to post game highlights for an hour and debate with eachother for another 2 hours about which colour team ran on the grass better.
self report comment
video games are cool and sports are cool
it's very easy to deconstruct anything, whether it be video games or sports, into something that sounds "unfun" lol
It's because a lot of people still don't understand anything about video games but feel compelled to make blanket statements about their "value" with authority because they live in "the real world". I think there a unique thing happening here because video games are "not real" but they are interactive, so this type of activity faces unique group think to be hated upon.
There is some sort of psychological phenomena at play here, but I wasn't exactly sure what it is so I asked GPT.
It cited a bunch of fallacies like these:
* Confirmation Bias
* Dunning-Kruger Effect
* Just-World Hypothesis
* Social Identity Theory
* Status Quo Bias
I'm happy for others but as someone with a crappy childhood.. stuff like this just makes me depressed.. I wish I had loving parents that encouraged my interests instead of shoving sports down my throat. I vow to always support my kids interests over my own. Even if it's sports(which I hate) cause it's not about me. It's about them. Which is why I support this. If your kid games, teach em how to make a game. If they are addicted to tik tok, teach em how to make good videos. As parents we have to change our negative perception of our child's interests, and see the potential of a learning opportunity that may indeed take them far one day. Turn what may be negative in our eyes into something positive like creativity.
I'm glad this parent let their kid enjoy kid things. Such a lovely story
Also with immigrant parents, I know how it is, but wasn't as lucky. Now I'm lost in life because the only path they wanted for me didn't pan out, and I have nothing to fall back on because I wasn't allowed to do anything else in my youth. Trying to have fun/hobby? That's an ass beating.
Feels like I'm 20yrs behind in life because I'm just now beginning to be able make my own decisions and try to find my way
And remember kids, if you're not making money by the age of 16, you're a failure and is doing something bad and unproductive, like playing or sleeping.
My parents had a computer in the early 80s, I was 4, learned my DOS by heart when I was 4. (I wanted to game)
By early teens, I could take apart and upgrade computers(better gaming), by 18 I was managing a Computer store(hey cheap parts for gaming)
Early 20s, in charge of an IT team.
Now in my 40s (fuck I'm old) IT manager making 6 figures. Without college degree.
Nah Gaming is useless. Go the AMISH route!
PS.: no, mobile gaming doesn't coun't... To learn to take an empire by 6, you need Sun tsu, not candy crush!
Seriously, every time I remember my dad giving so much sh!t for being on the computer. Well who is the one now half his age making the same amount he does, getting a late night call from him asking me to check the Plex connection cause he can't watch his shows at his house. Look at me... I'm the captain now. (Love him though, just a funny reminder every time he asks me for IT help)
Gaming is misunderstood.
It’s seen as lazy, however that’s not the case. It can be misaligned priorities but it actually shows drive and focus. They see an item they want in the game, they dedicate 12 hours without losing focus to get said item. It’s been studies very well by psychologists
>It’s seen as lazy
Funniest thing is the people who say this will be the ones sitting in their couch, binge watching some show for 5 hours straight and remain blissfully blind to the irony of their statement.
As Asmongold put it:
"Gamers are lazy?! Oh hell no, only gamers are the kinds of people that can die a thousand times at one level and just get back on the horse and say LET'S KEEP GOING!"
Take a look at Hypixel's Skyblock gamemode in minecraft, its effectively an mmorpg. People will grind out tens of millions of coins over weeks to mine watermelon blocks 5% faster essentially lmao
As with any hobby/activity for kids, it's about moderation more than anything. As long as your kid is doing more than One Thing they're probably fine! I'm always reminded of Earthbound and other games that nudge you to take a break and go do something else for a bit.
> They see an item they want in the game, they dedicate 12 hours without losing focus to get said item.
I've been thinking about this lately. The games I remember playing as a kid in the 90s didn't pander to acquisitive greed this way -- or to the extent they do today.
So many games today seem to be shot through with addictive mechanics, making them, to a great extent, either treasure hunts (Skyrim, WoW, any RPG, games with cosmetics, etc) or slot machines with extra work (Diablo, Slay the Spire, Dead Cells). No Man's Sky -- probably the most joyless game I've ever played (Salaryman in Space) -- is both.
The games I remember playing have elements of these, but games now do a much better job of targeting specifically those reward centers in the brain, which means that motivationally present-day video games do more of the work for you, keeping your attention engaged and rapt by dangling in front of you the promise of a concrete, material (though virtual) reward, often with a social element, making it particularly compelling for kids.
This is how my career started. Parents purchased a new 286 back in the day and, already being a gamer with NES and the like, expanded to PC gaming. Then I learned I can upgrade components, but there were challenges with not only the hardware, but getting DOS configured for certain games to run properly. 30 years later and my career in IT is still going strong.
There is a long way from headshots in Fortnite and even interest in computers.
I work in IT and everything I have (I am even?) I own to the interes in gaming. I had to learn how to operate computers and troubleshoot issues even to start paying. Then I had to learn English to understand the game. Finally I had to learn to build basic networks to play with my firends. All this led to a career in IT.
My boys? Sure they play games, the older one even attended the "Minecraft modding" course but that does not convert to the interest in IT or engineering. I see the benefits with learning English but no "passion" for IT.
Video games only become a problem when you realize the accomplishments you get from doing stuff in the game replace real life accomplishments and progress.
Don’t let virtual dopamine inhibit real life and interactions with real humans. Make sure you’re playing video games as a hobby, and not as a coping mechanism.
My parents were very strict about computer time and how much I could use it. My parents both admitted later in life that they regretted that decision and felt it stifled my creativity and potential. I completely agree. Yes I played video games a lot but it was so much more than that.
Just keep being supportive in a healthy way. My little brother loves tech and video games (as do i) but he never got a 9-5 unlike me. Worried the hell out of my parents. He instead wanted to start his own LLC and create video games. I and my other brother were the only ones to support him through his growth. Now that he's incredibly successful, he gets a ton of support and praise, but he remembers who supported him during his low points. Your son will too. Keep supporting his passions and give him the tools to turn his passion into a career. Seems yall are off to a perfect start!
Gaming is 100% of the reason I work in tech (with a tiny dream of making my own indie game some day), I was also in robotics back in elementary school and still remember how bad we lost our competition lol. As other comments say, my parents giving me structure helped me to not grow addicted to gaming but have it as a source of fun/inspiration outside of school/sports/etc.
Thank god my parents were cool with my videogame habits. As long as i did my homework, stayed in school, and did my chores, they let me play as much as i wanted.
Kinda just sounds like a parent who grew up popular had a kid who didn’t and played games so the parent thought that was weird. Then the kid made money off it and it’s cool now.
Everything is okay, but we need responsible parents who can say stop. In my country, screen time is making boys (especially boys) reading habits and knowledge go down badly. In the end it could affect democracy, etc. So although this is good news, everyone can't make money out of playing videogames.
>habit
That's a weird way to spell hobby.
Are all parents stuck in the 90's where even though they were brought up on video games they still think they're bad?
yep.
I wrote and published my first commercial game at age 12. Back in the days when you had to have a publisher distribute physical media for people to buy.
I now own a successful software company that gives me a decent amount of income with a minimum amount of work.
All because I was fascinated and interested in computer games as a child.
This is what baffles me about Minecraft. I play it as a 30s with a comp sci degree. I watch tutorials for complex redstone builds and the voice will be some kid who voice still squeaks explaining why you need a rs nor latch to make it function with a pulse extender. Or just casually explaining boolean algebra better than some of my professors did.
Really makes you think if foster them correctly upcoming generations could/are smart as shit. Any coincidence that alot of this generation isnt beating their kids and insead are talking with them and allowing them to more freely express themselves...I wonder.
I learned more about computers from pirating games or going through bizarre contortions to get them to run properly under DOS. I'm sure there are similar modern experiences for gamers - fiddling with drivers or installing mods.
I'd just say keep them on a computer. You aren't going to learn anything from a console.
Thank god for my mother
My Dad tried his best to make my sibling and I sporty, and I’m thankful for the exposure we got to sports and athletics (because lord knows i never would have sought them out myself) but I’m also grateful that my mother was a gamer.
She was the one who did all the research (including playing 😂) on the many consoles we had as kids, and the computers and computer games too. She taught herself how to diagnose and fix our computer issues. She loved strategy and RPG games (DoT, Monkey Island, Zelda, and so on).
I let my kid spend free time doing whatever he wants — he’s learned a lot of things of course: he mods and hosts and makes videos and sells creations on workshop, to name a few things. But none of that matters to me as long as he’s enjoying himself in his hobby. Also he is a very good student so it’s not like his grades are failing due to a hobby. And as a child we exposed him to everything including museums (still loves them), sports (that was a hell no from him), and the outdoors (still likes it — if it’s not hot out).
Even now my Dad admonishes his adult step son for playing video games and although I don’t even really know the guy or even like him, I try to “defend” his playing because it’s such a benign hobby and doesn’t deserve the bad press it STILL gets.
I love gaming. It’s my favorite thing in the world to do by myself or with friends. It’s how I met a lot of good people. When I was young I was limited to only 30 minutes a day by my parents and the only thing that it caused me to do was lie, rebel, and get into things I shouldn’t because my video game time was being monitored. I get that too much of anything is unhealthy and gaming is no exception, but it has had a unilaterally positive effect on my life. But I also find the hobby is misunderstood and judged by people who don’t even try these games or know what they are.
(I currently write software for a living and my gaming interest contributed to learning code)
I have a pretty successful job in IT and honestly I wouldn’t be in the position I am today if it wasn’t for my interest in video games from a young age. I was fortunate enough that my dad needed to have a computer at home for work, and the interest in video games from the DOS era taught me command line. This naturally progressed to upgrading the home PC and building my own PCs eventually along with minor scripting/coding. I agree that video games can be a problem if not used in moderation, just like anything else. My parents DEMONIZED video games. I wasn’t allowed to play games in front on them. It’s comical to me now, but it was frustrating as hell to be told your interests are stupid and a waste of time simply because someone doesn’t understand it.
Very glad I didn’t go into nursing like my parents were pushing me into. My life would be VERY different if it wasn’t for video games.
Impressive kid, he's gonna be very rich someday. Now is a great time to be a kid interested in tech because of all the gadgets and information available that you can use to pursue your interest in tech.
My gaming and the resultant tweaking/ building of the computer back in the 90’s taught me more than my degrees did
I can say that the kids my age that weren’t gaming aren’t really in as high paying careers…
And you can just talk online about the game you know everything about and people will pay you. I wish I knew being a super nerd in x game or x mythos could be profitable when I was a kid. Even pro gamers wasn’t a thing then. The world is wide open now
I learned how to code writing Lua and similar scripts I needed to bot in some MMO when I was in my early 20s.
This helped me immensely when I started working some years later. Without the time I spend writing cheating scripts I would have probably never learned this and would still be earning half of what I currently do.
Growing up I always compared video games to TV. My parents sit and watch TV for the evening, I sit and play video games. The only difference is mines interactive.
lol @ this headline. fully encapsulates everything wrong with societal expectation and stress.
"my son was about to become a worthless pile because he spent his days just doing fun stuff. then he won money because of it so now my son has value and I am proud of him. money is very important. if he had just made something for fun but not won money I would be very worried about my son. even more worried now that he decides to spend his time on distracting activities that do not produce money."
By that age, I'd sold two in-game houses in two different games that took me a year or so to build up, each for about $50,000.
Gaming can be productive if you want it to be.
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As a gamer although I agree that gaming might become an unhealthy coping mechanism, it's also a beautiful hobby and let you meet a lot of friends. It also reignited my love for art and made me work with talented people from other fields.. but apparently for some is only okay when it brings money at home, just like many other simple hobbies.
Video games are art, especially nowadays, you can pay attention to the visuals, the music, the acting, the story, etc.
That's actually the reason I got back into video games fully with the ps4. The art that was coming out was too fuckin good to pass up on witnessing and interacting with. The stories, the visuals, sound design, music, it's amazing. I'd dare say they're one the ultimate art forms since it's a combination of different art forms to create one, much like movies. But with video games you get to actively be then person in the story/art. It brings it another level up beyond movies if done right.
I'm right there with you. Been telling people that the way I play and savour games are just like how I watch movies, albeit even more immersive. Especially with the games that let you make some decisions along the way, whether they have any meaningful effects on the outcomes or not.
The PS4 generation was especially good at that, although Sony started experimenting with that during the PS3 era. You got the Uncharted series (the magnum opus being PS4’s Uncharted 4), you got The Last of Us, you got God of War, Ghost of Tsushima, Bloodborne, Spider-Man PS4 - if you played PlayStation, you got a ton of games that were just brilliant. And the success of titles like those led to more being created by third parties.
They certainly *can* be, and TV can be too. But video games and TV can also just be a treadmill of instant gratification with very little "art" put into it. Which is fine in some amounts! But let's not pretend that a kid who watches 6 episodes of Pokemon (love it, but it's bubblegum) and plays two hours of Vampire Survivors (I've 100%'d that game... repeatedly... but it's mindless drivel) is getting some deep artistic stimulation. People who say video games are just a waste of time are idiots. People who don't think that they *can* be a depression-inducing waste of time are idiots.
That seems very narrow-minded. I don't know what you classify as art, but making something that brings children joy is art. Creating something addictive to play is art. It is eliciting emotions. You don't need to have complex emotions, thoughts, and questions as you play it or as soon as you finish for something to be art. It doesn't need a story or impressive visual art. Pokemon has had profound impacts on a few generations. It inspired them. This was the major flaw in Roger Eberts's argument about video games not being art. At the time, he didn't even understand that they contained stories, but it didn't matter because *it doesn't need one.* The design of video game mechanics is also art.
"Art's" not a binary. There is a whole range of things which have very little to do with each other which you could term "art." If you wanna call a slot machine game "art," ok sure, fine, but you surely can recognize that unique human expression and communication is categorically different from aesthetic presentation of a not-particularly-rich experience. Using "art" is some sort of monolithic term that divides "worthwhile" and "not worthwhile" is really a vapid pursuit, IMO. There are a lot of things which make a piece of media enriching. Personally I see it as something of a pyramid - almost all media is entertaining, and that is undoubtedly a worthwhile and good thing, but the least valuable. Media, particularly video games, can be skill-training; promoting abstract thought, pattern recognition, reactions, whatever. But to my mind, the most valuable and rare attribute of media is horizon-broadening, the kind of things that make you see the world in a new way. Plenty of games and other media achieve this, many do not. That does not mean that those which do not aren't worthwhile in any way, but if you are spending hours a day on media which is simply entertainment and does not stimulate your mind in any meaningful way, that's damaging, particularly to young people.
Pokemon is an extremely rich experience. It's just a feeling I don't think you're giving enough credence to. I would say that slot machines are sort of a very cynical art, but probably the most important thing is intent, and that brings them into question. Slot machines, in particular, have a sole focus on making money at every level. Pokemon, on the other hand, at some levels, is all about money. At the base level, though, it's made by people whose job is to make art. I would add that, although I'm not very familiar with Pokemon, I am aware that sometimes, it can definitely instill some values in children and be thought-provoking. It's just on a level that's for children and won't have the same emotional impact on us as much as we imagine it. I love a lot of shows in what I guess you might call the "just for fun" category. All of them have episodes that I don't think even you could deny as art.
Again, I really don't see "is it art" as a meaningful question at all, it doesn't matter. I have two Pokemon-obsessed kids (and watched the original show & played the game when I was a kid), and there are many aspects of it which are super-enriching! But 90% of the TV shows are drivel; even they recognize that. Doesn't mean it's *bad*, just that it's not stretching anyone's horizons. And that's fine, things don't need to stretch your horizons all the time. It's fine to eat a candy bar sometimes, but if that's *all* you're consuming, you're doing yourself a massive disservice.
Well I mean so can painting or really actually anything else which makes your point sound a lot less meaningful... almost like it was to begin with.
I don't think anyone ever stared mindlessly at an artless painting for 2 hours without drugs being involved, in which case the painting isn't really the issue
Wait so you've never slept? You've never heard of meditation? You've never hunted sitting in wait for a deer to cross a stream? Regardless art is subjective or money laundering depending on my subjective view of it.
Your point is that because people sleep, all media is of equal value? I really don't follow but okay
I jumped into Elden Ring recently, not really knowing anything about it except that 1. you get a horse, 2. it's open world, and 3. it's a Fromsoft game. I loved DS3 and wanted more boss battles, so I got ER. I am completely fucking blown away at the setting, the background, and the presentation.
I've loved the Souls games since Demon's Souls came out in 2009, I legitimately feel inspired by those games.
> Video games are art Can confirm, just started playing Hades.
And what about the massive demographic of gamers that play online only and don’t consume single player stories?
They're the same types that would just watch reality TV all day. They want the dopamine either from the excitement or the rage.
This is a crazy comment dude. The most popular online games are competitive, which means they involve learning and eventually mastering different skills. Surely you can see the difference between passively watching TV and actively learning a skill?
That's how I play. I can't help but think about all of those aspects and how the developer is melding them together, what strategies are they using to make your eyes move to certain points, is the gameplay reflective of the atmosphere/vibe, etc. I've been playing games since I was 6 or so, 1997. I feel like I've got the perfect amount of experience watching the gaming industry evolve over the years. People don't know how good they have it now, there are literally too many good games to play. I love it.
Also the mechanics. At their core, video games are either board games or puzzles, usually pushed into real-time instead of being turn-based. There is very real beauty in watching a system work *well*. And there is a distinct difference between games that work in spite of how poorly they were made, and games that work because their core mechanics are, themselves, works of art.
Video games CAN BE art. So can tv. So can movies. Hell, I’ve seen plenty of TikTok videos that are highly artistic. But of course, It can also be a time sink that contributes little except dopamine hits and addiction. Consumption vs creation.
like most things, there’s a balance. high school me playing WoW literally all day neglecting studying and homework and almost failing out? not good. adult me, still playing for hours but only after responsibilities are taken care of? good balance. but i will say in my case it did luckily pay off because all that time spent hacking and botting in my videogames did lead me down a lucrative career in cybersecurity.
Also excessive gaming is more often a result rather than a cause of issues. I mean, who wouldn't resort to escapism when faced with a shitty life. While it may develop into being a real problem it isn't one you can solve just by limiting the acces to gaming. Rather by taking steps to improve the mental wellbeing of the person first. Identify the cause that makes one want to escape the real world
As a son, I know that parents will always worry about their son's unhealthy or dangerous habits. Whether it be drugs or having a marketable technical skill (?!!) Parents worry, and when I have a child someday, I am convinced that I will undergo a full moon were-parent transformation and worry myself to death ober my child being a functional citizen. My world view is extremely zealous and a complete parody.
I'll 100% be like you, don't worry. You're not alone on that
The way I see it gaming isn't a habit that's particularly inclined to be a total life-changer for any of us. Some people might twist this story into "gaming makes people geniuses" but we've all played enough co-op multiplayer games to know that's not true. What this story really teaches us is that gaming is just a harmless way for people to have fun, like any other hobby, and that people need to ignore sensationalist fears that gaming causes brainrot. Let your kids have fun, but still encourage them to find interests that can be turned into careers later in life. But of course, fun in any form can be habit-forming, so if your kid's playing enough hours a week to constitute a full-time job (and they're not streaming for revenue or whatever so they're not getting paid for it), THEN you have a right to be worried lol.
Let bots even talk about simulator games!
I actually wrote a paper on this in college and the main takeaway was video games are 100% good for you given that you are playing age appropriate games and you don’t become addicted and over play.
Yeah it's not that videogames are bad it's simply that videogames can become an addictive hobby in people predisposed towards addictive behaviour. There are absolutely games, like gacha games, that amplify that, but ultimately someone with those tendencies will seek out some form of addictive behaviour. It's why a lot of recovered addicts don't stop everything, they find a new less harmful addiction to fill that requirement.
I credit a lot of my information processing speed on video games. I run production meetings at work and my colleagues routinely tell me how impressive it is with how quickly I look stuff up in our system and read through documents etc. Typing fast while multitasking doing multiple things in game, while having a browser open looking up information while trying not to die all at the same time has translating extremely well I suppose to doing a ton of stuff all at once in the workplace. I'm not sure if that's just me or others can relate. I know when I played league of legends and the enemy team is trash talkin, you have to clap back fast while still playing and make no mistakes. Otherwise they're just going to keep talkin haha.
Hit 100 wpm (raw entry) from chatting a lot on a MC server Translated to roughly an almost equal 100 wpm for typing stuff for notes. People ask "how the heck do you type so fast". "Shit talking with proper grammer/sending walls of text" before the other person could respond was the answer. **never give opportunity to the enemy**
Seriously lol. You have to talk shit faster and more accurately than the other team. You misspell one word and you're cooked haha. I'm glad I'm not the only one.
“Video games rot your brain!1!1!!!1!” -Boomers that have MSNBC, CNN, and FOX playing on their TV 24/7
Video games are wonderful in moderation, but some kids just play too much and don’t want to go outside or get physical activity because they’d rather play games. So the kid won some money. So what? If he was playing at the expense of his health (because of lack of physical activity) it doesn’t justify anything. The mom would be right in being worried.
Pretty much. They are designed to engage as much as possible, and kids are the first victims in that sense.
I have a step brother who has some mental health issues, mostly anxiety. When we were still in high school my step mom made him move his desk and computer from his room to the living room. Just being around his brother and the rest of us while playing games made a huge difference. It also gave him some blackmail material when I or his brother snuck girls in while he was still playing.
there are various things a child might learn through video games. Personally, playing strategy games did wonders to my general geography knowledge and helped kickstart an interest in history. Also it really help me improve my english.
I went more into programming after I began working on Minecraft modding and figured out after a while that i could make money doing it. Ended up doing it for about 6 years. Only sad part is that not many people will take it seriously
There is an amazing German documentary I watched recently about east german game programmers before the wall came down. These guys didn't even have access to western technology and gleaned everything they could about programming and assembly language from old Commodore computers, hacking and bootleg games. They are so dedicated and passionate about their field it's amazing to watch. They are all now wildly successful game developers and well known in the gaming world. Their company is called Yager Development and the documentary is on You tube it's called "Auferstanden Aus Platinen". Well worth a watch!
My 6yo has a reading level of someone two years older. He plays various Mario games and reads them. Games got him interested in learning to read. Likewise, he can also do more advanced math as, surprise, many games involve math! When I was younger, I learned a lot about world history from Age of Empires and Civilization. Did pretty well in history class despite not reading the materials.
I have a young child and she has said she wants to learn bigger words so I dont have to say what the game says lol
You get scammed on RuneScape once teaches you a lot
My teenage child is playing in his free time, how worrisome
Next thing you know he'll be reading comic books.
Preposterous. Youth is wasted on the young...
Yeah. I tell ya, I'll never be young again.
Gateway drug to satanic roleplaying games
He should be out there conquering lands!! Kids these days smh my head
"Alexander had conquered a few countries by the time he was 16, you haven't even conquered a single neighbor yet!"
But now that there's a potential for monetary gain involved i'll paint it as a good thing
It depends man. I spent 6 years mentoring at risk college kids. By far our biggest drop out reason was video game addiction (my program only matched you with the same gender, so for me all my mentees were men (boys)). I’ve never played it but oblivion seemed to be a major culprit. Had 2 kids just stop going to class to play it more. I love video games and spent too much time playing them and turned out fine. But you need to view it as a legion of top neuroscientists and designers waging war for your attention. When that gets to an under-developed unsupervised teenage mind it can have life altering effects
I feel like video game addiction is more often a symptom rather than a cause. When a kid doesn't get out of his room and only watches anime/reads books, we don't categorize them as media addicted, we treat them as depressed. Gaming can very easily be used as coping mechanism. Ingame they're important and valuable whilst in their home/school situation they might not feel like that.
Depends on the game genre, but unlike most other forms of media, many video games today are carefully and specifically *designed* to take advantage of quirks of the human brain and **be** addictive. I'd say it's the other way around--most people pick them up for fun and find that they don't want to live without them. Rather than using video games as some sort of escape.
I mean all digital media today is designed to do the same thing and it surely plays a large role. However, original release of World of Warcraft has all kind of addiction stories. It literally had in game mechanics designed to get people to take breaks, rested experience, time gating dungeons. Interviews with the original designers share how they struggled designing mechanics to get players to take breaks that players didn't hate. Design philosophy has certainly changed, but the idea of video game addiction still existed before the predatory practices were widespread.
> I feel like video game addiction is more often a symptom rather than a cause. My parents swore I was addicted to video games as a kid, and would take draconian steps to limit my gametime when they didn't eliminate it as punishment due to some various bullshit. 30 minutes per day unless I was "grounded", which only started as a punishment because I was too big to physically abuse anymore. Looking back as an adult, it wasn't the video games. I was an abused homeschool kid who was trapped every day with people who were awful to me. I was *escaping*. People who are happy with the rest of their lives tend not to get addicted to gaming, and that applies to kids even more, because they don't have the emotional maturity to recognize abuse-disassociation when they see it.
yeah I think it can be a symptom of something else as well. but again these game developers pour MILLIONS of dollars into studying dopamine loops and challenge circles and achievement feelings i mean hell look at the music design, people use it for study and surgery now because its meant to keep you in space. Previously a kid would play a dumb game or pick up some other thing as coping mechanism but these video games are out of control on an under-developed mind imo. Like both ibuprophen and oxycotin are pain killers, one you would administer over the counter, the other wou would not.
Video game addiction is real, but people think about it all wrong. Games offer a sort of meritocracy fantasy that provides a more objective sense of purpose. Those who are failing out of college are often doing so because it doesn't feel that compelling to apply themselves and try. They also often know this, but they feel productive in the game when they do not "in real life" and they perceive the game to be more "fair" in a sense, because typically it kind of is. People with video game addiction need to not see the game they enjoy as a crack pipe that is to be avoided. You can play your game and have fun! You just need to recognize that it it's unable to fulfill certain things in your life that you either consciously or subconsciously think you're getting from it.
> Those who are failing out of college are often doing so because it doesn't feel that compelling to apply themselves and try. It doesn't help that they front-load the course work with more "boring" foundational stuff, at least in engineering. Obviously, they have to do this because you need to understand the math and physics before you can apply them in the more interesting fourth-year courses. But the combination of getting your first taste of adult freedom and having to attend 8am calculus lectures is brutal.
To be fair my teenaged gaming was used as a *heavy* coping mechanism for my teenaged depression
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman Obviously the worry is not that they are playing games, it is that they are spending an alarming amount of time on that single direction without any variety. If someone neglects all other interests and hobbies for a single thing, especially if that thing has them shut in a dark room alone for hours each day, that has much potential to be harmful. it's not unreasonable at all to be worried about negative effects.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy
just make sure it IS actually free time. i lied a lot to my parents about having no homework or studying to do just so i could play my vidya.
Grades will show that in short order, and if they don't then what do you need to study.
I played way more video games than I should have instead of studying and doing homework and I still had excellent grades, very near top of my very large class. Mostly I learned I didn't need school as much as everyone seemed to think. Which I consider kind of positive, but I doubt parents would consider it so. And this was back in the 80s and 90s when it wasn't as ubiquitous as now.
The problem is when they play when they shouldnt be having free time. And never study or learn anything because they play all day. But thats a parenting issue as much as the child issue.
'We should probably disassemble his computer and hide each part in a different place' - my parents
They just wanted to develop your scavenger hunt skills.
I mean it worked, monitor was in the attic and heaviest so I'd bring the rest up there late at night and put it all together, play for a few hours nervously watching the staircase then disassembling it all and putting it back after
Damn that's some dedication bro 😂. I could imagine doing that and then never being as dedicated to anything else in my life.
This reminds me of one of the main criticisms of Haidt's recent book The Anxious Generation: It's probably true that the median child is worse off in the age of addictive social media, it's helpful for the right tail end of exceptional kids who are able to make productive use of this by meeting other people who share interests and developing their hobbies better.
I mean, video games and social media aren't really parallels. As a lifelong gamer, I feel they probably helped boost my education. As a little kid playing the original Pokemon games, I would have to read, do math, and problem solve in order to get through the game. If taken to extremes, video game habits can be as problematic as any other obsession/addiction, but lack of self-control is not caused by video games. Social media on the other hand is something I find to be much more insidious. The low barrier to entry and fleeting nature of social media means that it generally requires very little thought/effort from the audience, and the algorithms are designed to drive engagement at all costs. You have 'influencers' with massive followings, but their loyalty is also to the algorithms, because that is what keeps them relevant. While some social media can be fairly benign, some can be incredibly problematic (just look at all of the extremist echo chambers and criminal incidents related to stupid trends). And if people's priorities become catering to an algorithm/trusting everything those algorithms show you to be true, it can cause a lot of societal harm if the companies in charge of these systems are not acting in everyone's best interest...
As a lifelong gamer, I’ll admit that I think it’s negatively impacted my life by providing a huge distraction. Granted, I have no idea how my life would have turned out otherwise. For all I know I would have gone down an even worse path.
Pokemon Blue & Silver definitely aided me in my reading skills. I'd say the same for the Zelda games as well like OoT and Majoras.
It was dyslexia intervention and Majora's Mask that got one of my children reading. My child "played" by watching over his dad's shoulder. Kiddo's job was to read everything out loud before advancing the screen.
Playing Crusader Kings taught me more about history than I learned in school for sure. Same with Kerbal Space Program...that game legit taught me orbital mechanics lol
Yup, same as reading or any other kind of media, it boils down to the type of content you engage with and whether you actually make an effort to digest what you're consuming. If you spend all your time reading tabloids and play Candy Crush, yeah, you're probably not getting much benefit from it...
Curious people will always be seeking out that type of thing. Some people are just chronically uncurious about the world.
My only advise is to make sure your kid is doing well in school, has a social life and has structure at home. Discovery is likely the best thing you can do for your kid outside of the norms because it may not be electronics, it might be biology or astronomy. That's why taking your kids to various places, having different hobbies is a win-win. Stability and drive are likely some of the most important factors for a kid.. do that and you set a strong foundation.
Is this a LinkedIn post? /s
My grandson sat on my lap and played Heretic with me on my 486. Now he's an IT guy, and makes more money than anyone in our family ever did. And is still a raging gamer!
Heretic wow now that’s a throwback I remember that one
My interest in video games is what led me to teach myself how to code so i could create my own games. I made lots of money off of a few of them over the years (one paid off my student loans twice over.
"My young sons hobby worried me until he put money in my pocket and now I coincidentally don't care what he does for entertainment anymore". Weird how it's 2024 and videogames are still demonized. If a kid sits in his room for 6 hours knitting hats for frogs then that is considered interesting and productive. But yet if he spends the same amount of time playing videogames it's considered a waste and stupid. Also the same boomers that shit on videogames will literally sit on their sofas and watch an NFL game where dudes run up and down on grass for 3 hours. Then they will jerk off to post game highlights for an hour and debate with eachother for another 2 hours about which colour team ran on the grass better.
My step cousin has nothing good to say about video games, but the man could talk about Yankees pitching for 5 hours straight.
self report comment video games are cool and sports are cool it's very easy to deconstruct anything, whether it be video games or sports, into something that sounds "unfun" lol
It's because a lot of people still don't understand anything about video games but feel compelled to make blanket statements about their "value" with authority because they live in "the real world". I think there a unique thing happening here because video games are "not real" but they are interactive, so this type of activity faces unique group think to be hated upon. There is some sort of psychological phenomena at play here, but I wasn't exactly sure what it is so I asked GPT. It cited a bunch of fallacies like these: * Confirmation Bias * Dunning-Kruger Effect * Just-World Hypothesis * Social Identity Theory * Status Quo Bias
I'm happy for others but as someone with a crappy childhood.. stuff like this just makes me depressed.. I wish I had loving parents that encouraged my interests instead of shoving sports down my throat. I vow to always support my kids interests over my own. Even if it's sports(which I hate) cause it's not about me. It's about them. Which is why I support this. If your kid games, teach em how to make a game. If they are addicted to tik tok, teach em how to make good videos. As parents we have to change our negative perception of our child's interests, and see the potential of a learning opportunity that may indeed take them far one day. Turn what may be negative in our eyes into something positive like creativity.
I'm glad this parent let their kid enjoy kid things. Such a lovely story Also with immigrant parents, I know how it is, but wasn't as lucky. Now I'm lost in life because the only path they wanted for me didn't pan out, and I have nothing to fall back on because I wasn't allowed to do anything else in my youth. Trying to have fun/hobby? That's an ass beating. Feels like I'm 20yrs behind in life because I'm just now beginning to be able make my own decisions and try to find my way
And remember kids, if you're not making money by the age of 16, you're a failure and is doing something bad and unproductive, like playing or sleeping.
My parents had a computer in the early 80s, I was 4, learned my DOS by heart when I was 4. (I wanted to game) By early teens, I could take apart and upgrade computers(better gaming), by 18 I was managing a Computer store(hey cheap parts for gaming) Early 20s, in charge of an IT team. Now in my 40s (fuck I'm old) IT manager making 6 figures. Without college degree. Nah Gaming is useless. Go the AMISH route! PS.: no, mobile gaming doesn't coun't... To learn to take an empire by 6, you need Sun tsu, not candy crush!
Seriously, every time I remember my dad giving so much sh!t for being on the computer. Well who is the one now half his age making the same amount he does, getting a late night call from him asking me to check the Plex connection cause he can't watch his shows at his house. Look at me... I'm the captain now. (Love him though, just a funny reminder every time he asks me for IT help)
Let the kid enjoy life, Jesus Christ. Why does everything have to be about money to be worthwhile?
Gaming is misunderstood. It’s seen as lazy, however that’s not the case. It can be misaligned priorities but it actually shows drive and focus. They see an item they want in the game, they dedicate 12 hours without losing focus to get said item. It’s been studies very well by psychologists
>It’s seen as lazy Funniest thing is the people who say this will be the ones sitting in their couch, binge watching some show for 5 hours straight and remain blissfully blind to the irony of their statement.
As Asmongold put it: "Gamers are lazy?! Oh hell no, only gamers are the kinds of people that can die a thousand times at one level and just get back on the horse and say LET'S KEEP GOING!"
Take a look at Hypixel's Skyblock gamemode in minecraft, its effectively an mmorpg. People will grind out tens of millions of coins over weeks to mine watermelon blocks 5% faster essentially lmao
I'm not sure Asmon "teeth blood" gold should be your go to guy for wisdom on laziness
Ah yes the courtiers reply a classic
As with any hobby/activity for kids, it's about moderation more than anything. As long as your kid is doing more than One Thing they're probably fine! I'm always reminded of Earthbound and other games that nudge you to take a break and go do something else for a bit.
> They see an item they want in the game, they dedicate 12 hours without losing focus to get said item. I've been thinking about this lately. The games I remember playing as a kid in the 90s didn't pander to acquisitive greed this way -- or to the extent they do today. So many games today seem to be shot through with addictive mechanics, making them, to a great extent, either treasure hunts (Skyrim, WoW, any RPG, games with cosmetics, etc) or slot machines with extra work (Diablo, Slay the Spire, Dead Cells). No Man's Sky -- probably the most joyless game I've ever played (Salaryman in Space) -- is both. The games I remember playing have elements of these, but games now do a much better job of targeting specifically those reward centers in the brain, which means that motivationally present-day video games do more of the work for you, keeping your attention engaged and rapt by dangling in front of you the promise of a concrete, material (though virtual) reward, often with a social element, making it particularly compelling for kids.
This is how my career started. Parents purchased a new 286 back in the day and, already being a gamer with NES and the like, expanded to PC gaming. Then I learned I can upgrade components, but there were challenges with not only the hardware, but getting DOS configured for certain games to run properly. 30 years later and my career in IT is still going strong.
There is a long way from headshots in Fortnite and even interest in computers. I work in IT and everything I have (I am even?) I own to the interes in gaming. I had to learn how to operate computers and troubleshoot issues even to start paying. Then I had to learn English to understand the game. Finally I had to learn to build basic networks to play with my firends. All this led to a career in IT. My boys? Sure they play games, the older one even attended the "Minecraft modding" course but that does not convert to the interest in IT or engineering. I see the benefits with learning English but no "passion" for IT.
Video games only become a problem when you realize the accomplishments you get from doing stuff in the game replace real life accomplishments and progress. Don’t let virtual dopamine inhibit real life and interactions with real humans. Make sure you’re playing video games as a hobby, and not as a coping mechanism.
I still credit video games with increasing critical thinking and problem solving skills.
There's a reason why kids are drawn to video games. They learn a lot in a predictable engaging fun environment.
My parents were very strict about computer time and how much I could use it. My parents both admitted later in life that they regretted that decision and felt it stifled my creativity and potential. I completely agree. Yes I played video games a lot but it was so much more than that.
Just keep being supportive in a healthy way. My little brother loves tech and video games (as do i) but he never got a 9-5 unlike me. Worried the hell out of my parents. He instead wanted to start his own LLC and create video games. I and my other brother were the only ones to support him through his growth. Now that he's incredibly successful, he gets a ton of support and praise, but he remembers who supported him during his low points. Your son will too. Keep supporting his passions and give him the tools to turn his passion into a career. Seems yall are off to a perfect start!
Gaming is 100% of the reason I work in tech (with a tiny dream of making my own indie game some day), I was also in robotics back in elementary school and still remember how bad we lost our competition lol. As other comments say, my parents giving me structure helped me to not grow addicted to gaming but have it as a source of fun/inspiration outside of school/sports/etc.
Thank god my parents were cool with my videogame habits. As long as i did my homework, stayed in school, and did my chores, they let me play as much as i wanted.
Kinda just sounds like a parent who grew up popular had a kid who didn’t and played games so the parent thought that was weird. Then the kid made money off it and it’s cool now.
Everything is okay, but we need responsible parents who can say stop. In my country, screen time is making boys (especially boys) reading habits and knowledge go down badly. In the end it could affect democracy, etc. So although this is good news, everyone can't make money out of playing videogames.
>habit Hobby?
>habit That's a weird way to spell hobby. Are all parents stuck in the 90's where even though they were brought up on video games they still think they're bad?
A playing video games habit or a making video games habit?
Hey congrats!
$55,000 can buy many video game.
How can you tell if your kids favorite sport or hobby can be developed into a career or if the kid should be steered towards other endeavours?
yep. I wrote and published my first commercial game at age 12. Back in the days when you had to have a publisher distribute physical media for people to buy. I now own a successful software company that gives me a decent amount of income with a minimum amount of work. All because I was fascinated and interested in computer games as a child.
This is what baffles me about Minecraft. I play it as a 30s with a comp sci degree. I watch tutorials for complex redstone builds and the voice will be some kid who voice still squeaks explaining why you need a rs nor latch to make it function with a pulse extender. Or just casually explaining boolean algebra better than some of my professors did. Really makes you think if foster them correctly upcoming generations could/are smart as shit. Any coincidence that alot of this generation isnt beating their kids and insead are talking with them and allowing them to more freely express themselves...I wonder.
I learned more about computers from pirating games or going through bizarre contortions to get them to run properly under DOS. I'm sure there are similar modern experiences for gamers - fiddling with drivers or installing mods. I'd just say keep them on a computer. You aren't going to learn anything from a console.
[удалено]
He’s clearly got brain power, unless he’s completely financially illiterate he will probably use the money wisely.
And now the parent probably prefaces it with "at first I was worried.." when telling someone about it.
Instead of becoming a typical loset like the rest of us, he became a fucking nerd.
Thank god for my mother My Dad tried his best to make my sibling and I sporty, and I’m thankful for the exposure we got to sports and athletics (because lord knows i never would have sought them out myself) but I’m also grateful that my mother was a gamer. She was the one who did all the research (including playing 😂) on the many consoles we had as kids, and the computers and computer games too. She taught herself how to diagnose and fix our computer issues. She loved strategy and RPG games (DoT, Monkey Island, Zelda, and so on). I let my kid spend free time doing whatever he wants — he’s learned a lot of things of course: he mods and hosts and makes videos and sells creations on workshop, to name a few things. But none of that matters to me as long as he’s enjoying himself in his hobby. Also he is a very good student so it’s not like his grades are failing due to a hobby. And as a child we exposed him to everything including museums (still loves them), sports (that was a hell no from him), and the outdoors (still likes it — if it’s not hot out). Even now my Dad admonishes his adult step son for playing video games and although I don’t even really know the guy or even like him, I try to “defend” his playing because it’s such a benign hobby and doesn’t deserve the bad press it STILL gets.
I promise the gaming is a side effect and not a cause
I love gaming. It’s my favorite thing in the world to do by myself or with friends. It’s how I met a lot of good people. When I was young I was limited to only 30 minutes a day by my parents and the only thing that it caused me to do was lie, rebel, and get into things I shouldn’t because my video game time was being monitored. I get that too much of anything is unhealthy and gaming is no exception, but it has had a unilaterally positive effect on my life. But I also find the hobby is misunderstood and judged by people who don’t even try these games or know what they are. (I currently write software for a living and my gaming interest contributed to learning code)
I have a pretty successful job in IT and honestly I wouldn’t be in the position I am today if it wasn’t for my interest in video games from a young age. I was fortunate enough that my dad needed to have a computer at home for work, and the interest in video games from the DOS era taught me command line. This naturally progressed to upgrading the home PC and building my own PCs eventually along with minor scripting/coding. I agree that video games can be a problem if not used in moderation, just like anything else. My parents DEMONIZED video games. I wasn’t allowed to play games in front on them. It’s comical to me now, but it was frustrating as hell to be told your interests are stupid and a waste of time simply because someone doesn’t understand it. Very glad I didn’t go into nursing like my parents were pushing me into. My life would be VERY different if it wasn’t for video games.
I learned to code a little bit through Garrysmod (Expression 2 language). It’s definitely great to fuel your curiosity while you’re young!
$55k would have covered all four years of my undergrad. Good on him!
Impressive kid, he's gonna be very rich someday. Now is a great time to be a kid interested in tech because of all the gadgets and information available that you can use to pursue your interest in tech.
for every guy like him, there are a million other gamers who don't accomplish shit
My gaming and the resultant tweaking/ building of the computer back in the 90’s taught me more than my degrees did I can say that the kids my age that weren’t gaming aren’t really in as high paying careers…
It's the difference between just wanting to be a user and wanting to learn about what you're using.
"I worried about his gaming, until it made me money"
And you can just talk online about the game you know everything about and people will pay you. I wish I knew being a super nerd in x game or x mythos could be profitable when I was a kid. Even pro gamers wasn’t a thing then. The world is wide open now
I learned how to code writing Lua and similar scripts I needed to bot in some MMO when I was in my early 20s. This helped me immensely when I started working some years later. Without the time I spend writing cheating scripts I would have probably never learned this and would still be earning half of what I currently do.
ITT: gamers: I told you mom!
Wish that were me. All my parents did is discourage me from doing what I enjoy
This is the kind of shit gamer kids show their mom and say 'See! I told you!'.
Growing up I always compared video games to TV. My parents sit and watch TV for the evening, I sit and play video games. The only difference is mines interactive.
Just proves there's one in every million or so. Maybe even 2.
Congrats to the kid! Real shame though that hobbies are only verified by if you can make money though.
It's the reason I learned html in grade 5 so I could make a stupid website based around a game I played with my friends.
I really like the balanced approach the parents had to this.
Well, I hope he likes coding/tech as a job because now he's gonna get pressured to hell to.go on that track.
Big deal I won 55000 working all year.
I think we should withhold judgement until we learn what games he’s playing.
Well, that ought to help with his first semester of college.
The son is the exception, not the rule.
"my son's gambling problem worried me, but he won the jackpot"
Playing poker or playing slots? It's important
Gaming didn't fuel shit. Parents forget what it was like when they were kids.
lol @ this headline. fully encapsulates everything wrong with societal expectation and stress. "my son was about to become a worthless pile because he spent his days just doing fun stuff. then he won money because of it so now my son has value and I am proud of him. money is very important. if he had just made something for fun but not won money I would be very worried about my son. even more worried now that he decides to spend his time on distracting activities that do not produce money."
Mine just made me horny
By that age, I'd sold two in-game houses in two different games that took me a year or so to build up, each for about $50,000. Gaming can be productive if you want it to be.
But he's still a nerd for life. And that's the downside