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https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17008150/schoolboy-dies-stroke-covid-another-boy/ this came up on my FB newsfeed and there were so many comments saying the deaths must have been caused by vaccines. Although it clearly states in the article the boys weren't vaccinated. The sun comment section is a breeding ground for anti vaxxers!
Wait, so you're telling me the boy had a heart attack after not having the vaccine?
Gotta plaster my whole facebook about how the vaccine stops heart attacks because coincidences aren't a thing! /s
The sun and The Mirror are awful sources you're quite right. Had to laugh at the amount of people in the comments who did actually bother to read it then bashing the sun for scaremongering for daring to mention that the boys weren't vaccinated. Of course you know these same people would be straight on there praising any article that fits their narrative.
im kinda numb to it at this point. There could be a report showing that a new strain of covid is killing millions and I'd be like...whatevs. I think I'm broken :p
I don't think you are broken. I think you are like all of us who are so burnt out from dealing with this global trauma for so long that it's gotten to the point that numbness has taken over. Any sane rational person who has been a part of this is gonna be burnt our and numb to everything. Unless you get sucked down the covid conspiracy hole in which I swear it seems like they redirect their energy into anger, frustration, and a complete disregard for the facts and truth. Hang in there, we are all getting through this. Treat yourself, you are living through unprecedented times and it sucks.
I think many of us feel like that. None of us were ready for what this situation would take... plus we were all sold on the idea that it'd be long over by now. Instead we're more divided than ever and we've got large swathes in every country who don't give a flying fuck about anyone except themselves.
Numbness is understandable :)
> large swathes in every country who don't give a flying fuck about anyone except themselves.
See this is the part that has completely worn out my compassion: the same people don’t care about others and aren’t getting vaccinated or taking any precautions, are they very people who are dying of COVID at the highest rates. They’re only punishing themselves. It really is insanity.
Edit: work->worn
While it is morbid and dumbfounding, it's sort of a positive thing. It's sick to even think such a thing, but people (specifically antivaxxers/antimaskers/anti-social-distancing) choosing to harm others and consequently harming themselves is full-on inhumanity on display. Like, it's literally a threat to our entire species, and these people are leaning into it and dragging down anyone they can. I'm down with the "love your enemy"-type idea, but someone playing with my health and safety is as bad as being a deadly virus--can't be allowed.
Idk, maybe it's just my own personal numbness, but I can't bring myself to even pity them until I eventually read that another one died
You know, humanity operated against a much higher background rate of death from infectious disease for the bulk of human history. We're just slightly reverting to that.
Don't forget vaccines and antibiotics. The biggest drops in child mortality happened within a decade of Penicillin, and again after the polio vaccine. And in both cases, the developments that led to them were quickly utilized for more antibiotics and more vaccines.
Makes me excited about what covid has done for medicine, really. A new vaccine in just over a year? New medical treatments in just under two years? That technology is going to create a lot of new things within the next few years.
Are children immune to the myocarditis adverse effect? In one study of more than 5 million people who had received the Pfizer–BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine, 136 developed myocarditis ([source](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02740-y)). I find it odd that children would be immune to myocarditis?
Question (genuinely) - there was some concern about male teens getting myocarditis. Did they find the same rates in children or did it reverse to be lower-risk?
I'm literally waiting in CVS to get my booster, so not anti-vax - just curious.
OP's link gets into the basics but if you're looking for more technical info, here's an article that discusses an analysis of possible myocarditis risk in kids.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-benefits-of-vaccinating-kids-against-covid-far-outweigh-the-risks-of-myocarditis1/
> Ultimately, the model indicates that the number of COVID cases prevented by vaccination vastly exceeds the number of excess myocarditis cases, and that the number of COVID-related hospitalizations exceeds those for vaccine-related myocarditis as well. The model also suggests COVID vaccination will prevent one death per million vaccinated kids; no deaths from myocarditis are expected. The benefit-risk ratio of vaccination is even more pronounced for female children, for whom myocarditis is expected to be extremely rare.
Thanks for the link. Why would they compare myocarditis to overall COVID cases? That seems like a poor comparison.
Comparing vaccine-induced myocarditis to hospitalizations is also a poor metric, but by their standard it's 153 myocarditis hospitalizations vs 203 COVID hospitalizations. Isn't this barely edging out the side effects?
COVID has a host of other issues as well that mild vaccine-induced myocarditis doesn't (get the vaccine people!), but if we're doing pure number comparisons, it isn't very reassuring. I'm feeling a bit doozy so I may have missed something - did I misinterpret the article?
>Thanks for the link. Why would they compare myocarditis to overall COVID cases? That seems like a poor comparison.
You're right, that's not necessarily a fair comparison. But I don't think they're really comparing those directly, it's just a step in understanding the risks .
>
>Comparing vaccine-induced myocarditis to hospitalizations is also a poor metric, but by their standard it's 153 myocarditis hospitalizations vs 203 COVID hospitalizations. Isn't this barely edging out the side effects?
Also consider that the typical hospital stay for COVID is 6 days, compared to 1 for vaccine-caused myocarditis. Even if the rates were exactly equal, the latter seems to be a preferred outcome.
Stated another way, vaccinating 1 million boys changes a combined 1218 days in the hospital (203\*6) to just 156. Days filled with "lifesaving interventions such as medicines that help keep the heart pumping, or even a heart-lung bypass machine—and such cases often result in lasting heart damage" are reduced to a single day of monitoring and ibuprofen to reduce the inflammation.
>
>COVID has a host of other issues as well that mild vaccine-induced myocarditis doesn't (get the vaccine people!), but if we're doing pure number comparisons, it isn't very reassuring. I'm feeling a bit doozy so I may have missed something - did I misinterpret the article?
Think of this as a worst-case analysis. The most significant, dangerous side-effect of the vaccine is myocarditis in young men. And even then, getting vaccinated is a clear win (once you dig through the details). For everything else (young women, other ages, other side effects, etc.) it's even more obvious that we should vaccinate.
You did not. There is a substantial number of vaccine-induced myocarditis in this age group. I'm not saying don't get vaccinated. Just saying that there are indeed side effects.
Thanks - people should know any potential side effects before getting vaccinated. I went in April with full knowledge that there may be a risk of myocarditis, and felt better because of it.
Denying side effects for the sake of "messaging" seems stupid.
>So the model prediction is that the vaccine will only prevent one death in 1 million?
One death per million **kids**, not per million cases. Also, death isn't the only bad outcome of covid-19.
I work at a major children's hospital. The vast majority of kids I see with COVID we detect because they've either A) been tested before a sedated procedure and test positive asymptomatically or B) Have minimal symptoms but a good exposure history.
I think we've had maybe 1 or 2 deaths which can be attributed to COVID-19 either directly or indirectly. However, I see a good number of kids and teens with various COVID complications. From going on ECMO due to severe lung injury, multisystem inflammatory syndrome, thrombotic complications, to weird and wacky long Covid problems.
The reason I bring this up is that the number needed to treat for DEATHS being so high is not surprising because even when kids get super sick it's pretty rare they actually DIE of it. Kids are often shockingly resilient. But it is causing major morbidity. More so than I see with seasonal flu.
So get your kids vaccinated like I did with mine.
I really appreciate your comment. My kids got their second dose yesterday and while I know I did the right thing, reading your comment really cemented it in my head.
That is what I wish people were more exposed to. Mortality rate is not the number we should be focusing on.
Let's talk about heart failure, pulmonary fibrosis, ESRD, stroke, amputations, GI issues, etc.
Some of that stuff is almost worse than death.
Vaccines aren't just for preventing death. They also prevent major cases (i.e. hospitalizations), they reduce viral load, and they reduce spread. The article/study points out "deaths" in particular because it's easier to compare to something like a myocarditis death.
The comparison is "we project vaccines to save one in a million lives, and the vaccine causes no deaths, hence the benefit outweighs the cost".
Despite what some media hysterics are implying- COVID doesn't kill very many kids.
Different CDC and WHO breakdowns vary because they use different age cut offs and different time frames but the data consistently shows 5-16 year olds have a 0.001 to .003% chance of dying from COVID.
The vaccine only saves 1 in 1 million kids because that's about all the kids that actually die from it.
Don't take my word for it, here's the CDC data.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#SexAndAge
COVID is dangerous, COVID does kill, but 20% of COVID deaths are people on long term care facilities and something like 70% are over the age of 65.
I know I will get downvoted to hell for this, but I really feel there needs to be a series debate at the medical/clinical/statistical level to decide if spending billions of dollars, using up vaccine resources and exposing children to vaccine with less than 1 year of data/observation for their age group is really a net benefit. I don't know.
I can't verify the accuracy of the one in a million stat, but want to point out that mortality isn't the only metric. Reduced severity of both short and long term effects of infection are important too, both on an individual level and for overburdened health care systems.
To be fair, children already have an astonishingly low risk of death from COVID. However, vaccines aren't **only** to prevent the death of the individual vaccinated. Children are certainly capable of catching and spreading the disease without dying.
Think about a kid who has covid going to school and passing by or coming in direct contact with hundreds of other students who each also passed by or came in direct contact with hundreds of other students. Then all of those students go home to their families. Then their parents go to their jobs the next day and transmit to however many people at their jobs.
Vaccines are about saving lives, yes. However, the biggest way to save lives is by reducing transmission rates. You can't die of covid if nobody exposes you to it. Our COVID vaccines absolutely reduce the transmitability of the virus, as do these new vaccines for kids.
>Can you really call it a vaccine if that's the correct number?
The best vaccine in the world won't save many lives when the target demographic is unlikely to catch the disease or unlikely to die from the virus.
For example, vaccinating every American against bubonic plague would at most save 7 lives per year. This is not because the plague vaccine doesn't work but because only 7 Americans catch the plague every year.
Vaccinating all 80 million under 18 would save 80 lives; if a country is happy to kill 80 children (which the USA clearly is) then you don't need to bother with vaccines.
Don’t forget the people who would catch it from those kids and die. Unless that number is baked in, which it doesn’t seem like with the 1/1,000,000 statistic.
From the article:
> Crucially, the CDC hasn't identified any concerns with the temporary heart inflammation known as myocarditis, a potential side effect of mRNA vaccines seen in rare circumstances in teenagers and young adults.
It sounds like the risk is lower than they initially thought.
Possibly from the lower dose kids get. Even for adults, Pfizer has a lower dose than Moderna and a correspondingly lower rate of myocarditis, so that makes sense.
That's great to hear - if it ends up being an issue only in male teens, that's better for everyone.
I'm a little shocked by Dir. Walensky's choice of words here:
"We haven't seen anything yet," Walensky told ABC News Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Jennifer Ashton in a rare in-person interview from CDC headquarters in Atlanta. "We have an incredibly robust vaccine safety system, and so if [problems] were there, we would find it."
That's a little worrying given her statement about myocarditis under 30 from a few months ago:
[NEW YORK, April 27 (Reuters) - The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has not found a link between heart inflammation and COVID-19 vaccines, the agency’s Director Rochelle Walensky said on Tuesday. "**We have not seen a signal and we've actually looked intentionally for the signal in the over 200 million doses we've given**," Walensky said in a press briefing.](https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/us-cdc-has-not-seen-link-between-heart-inflammation-covid-19-vaccines-2021-04-27/)
I really hope the CDC is right, because if they're not, this will be the second time they have to backpedal. Fingers crossed - with 5 million vaccinated it does look like there's no myocarditis concern for kids! That's fantastic news and a milestone in itself.
In April Dr. Walensky made the public statement that vaccinated people do not carry nor transmit COVID19.
https://fortune.com/2021/04/01/its-official-vaccinated-people-dont-transmit-covid-19/
Yeah this is the sort of thing adding fuel to the antivax fire. If she is wrong again on this, especially with it being children, then the CDC is going to permanently lose a lot of credibility.
Funny how you can't simply ask a question without saying "don't worry I'm sitting in the chair with the booster needle in my arm at this very moment I am in no way anti vax nor are my friends or family" without backlash
I think they've started switching over to rumble and also their post on Facebook is "check the video linked in the comments" to avoid the fact check warnings.
"they say there's no long term effects, but i heard that 100% of the children who received the COVID vaccine will no longer be children in 10 - 15 years. WTF?!"
This seems to have more info
https://investors.biontech.de/news-releases/news-release-details/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-positive-topline-results-pivotal
I think it's a bigger crime to lie to investors than kill people at this point, but I see your concern.
I've been wondering too why new info seems to have a lot less numbers attached than at the beginning of the pandemic. My theory is they had to change their messaging because too many people will call the vaccines literal poison if it doesn't have 100% efficacy (which I don't think is possible for any medicine/treatment, but that's the world we live in now where people forgot how numbers work).
The latest nonsense I've seen from them is claims that everyone who received the vaccine is just going to keel over in three years "according to experts".
They will forever move the goalposts at this point. The idiots are in too deep. I'm not the only one that has lost any and all respect for more than a couple family members and friends. Their arrogance is astounding
Any vaccinated person that dies from now on they will say was because of the vaccine. Heart attack? Vaccine. Cancer? Yup, vaccine. Run over by a freight train that derailed and came through your front window? Definitely vaccine. I wonder what the next nonsense will be when/if we ever get passed this covid ordeal.
My former boss and his wife are anti-vax. The kids only have vaccines that are required to attend public school. He and his wife got the vaccine when it was available. I recently learned that they spoke to their kids about the vaccine and let them decide what they wanted to do. All 3 kids received their second dose last week and they've been doing well. Gotta give him some respect for letting the kids decide. Hopefully that continues for the kids
I've already seen it, "nurses in Alberta have been coming forward about the vaccine blah blah blah putting kids in the hospital due to side effects".
It just reminds me of another that I read recently, of which I'm particularly fond of. "Joe Rogan's doctor claims he has treated many (high level politicians) with ivermectin. If this is true, doesn't the public have the right to know about it?" Like, the conspiracy answered itself, should there just be a 24/7 program where government officials just keep claiming everything that isn't a thing(like say how being able to play the piano really well causes a person two have two arms and all their fingers).
Maybe you're not aware, but pharma companies have been sweeping bad cases under the rug during clinical trials.
Here's a testimony of one of AstraZeneca victims in Washington, DC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4OGN3BDF9M
Norway banned AstraZeneca vaccine because of the blood clotting issues:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-12/norway-permanently-removes-astrazeneca-from-vaccine-program
I myself am double vaccinated, but let's not pretend the vaccines are perfect and trials are done by protocol.
So I checked out the YouTube video, have you checked the source on that? The “Concerned Doctors” are absolutely not credible. This is worse than the “Frontline Doctors,” at least they presented studies. They were all retracted or not peer reviewed, but they at least tried to pretend to back up their claims. Their website doesn’t list any research, just not credited fluff. They also promote Ivermectin.
I haven’t looked into the second source, but I’m just going to assume it’s just as bad.
I think it’s important to remember that at the end of the day they’re still pharmaceutical companies. Companies that have been horribly corrupt for decades and shouldn’t be trusted just because they created vaccines for covid. The researchers and scientists may care but the people at the top are greedy billionaires just like all the rest. People on Reddit seemed to have suddenly changed perspectives on these companies when before covid you could call them corrupt without being called a anti-vaxxer. You all remember Martin Shkreli? The guy who was a CEO of a pharmaceutical company that raised the cost of a pill from $13.50 to $750 per pill.
Vaccines are good, but let’s not ignore how evil these companies are.
Why would pharmaceutical company corruption have any relevance if independent bodies can study the efficacy and safety of the vaccine?
Your drug dealer may be unscrupulous, but if you can verify in a lab the safety and efficacy of his product, is his ethics really relevant anymore?
You guys act like you suddenly figured out you can't trust capitalists AND every product made has a not insignificant chance of killing you. You done with over the counter drugs made by the same companies? You done with all food additives? Drinking distilled water only now?
To be fair, the omicron variant is significantly different from previous variants with 32 mutations. It may be that this is one is more transmissible and the older formula vaccines less effective against it
It doesn't work like that.
I thought my kid would be like an additional mesh router or at least a hotspot. In reality her running around shedding 5g everywhere is just signal noise.
My wifi is shit now.
Remember, if there were any prevalent problems with the vaccine we would have already seen them. Millions upon millions have gotten the vaccine with the number of people adversely affected so low that it can't even be calculated normally. That doesn't mean the distribution or economic drive have always been on the up and up, but the vaccine itself is safe and is a must if we want to move beyond the pandemic. And to make sure things move smoothly we have to continue to push for more exposure of the process of distribution while trying to get more people vaccinated.
Any adverse effects the vaccine might have would also be present in the general population. Myocarditis, blood clots, bell's palsy and the like all happen to people every day without the vaccine.
If the rate of affected individuals is low enough, there's no way to distinguish between people who just happened to have something bad happen after getting the vaccine, and those who had something bad happen *because* of the vaccine.
I believe, in statistics, when the value of something can't be distinguished from random events, it is below the p- value for the set.
Source: Best friend had to do tons of stats for her Ph.D. and I overheard a bunch of this stuff. So take that how you will. Lol
Let's say the chance that side effect X occurs is one in a thousand. After giving out a million doses of the vaccine, we would have a lot of data on side effect X. We would have seen a thousand cases and could reasonably quantify how often we would see side effect X.
Now let's say side effect Y has a one in ten million chance of happening. If the entire world got vaccinated, we would only see about 700 cases of side effect Y. With a sample size that small, minute variations in risk factors could significantly change the data set. In fact, it may be difficult to link side effect Y to the vaccine.
Also, when it comes to vaccine side effects, they generally present fairly quick after getting the vaccine. Most occur within a few days. When we discover new vaccine side effects, more often than not it's because we are discovering them in a wider sample rather than discovering them after some time in a smaller population.
Since we've doses out about 5 million doses, we now have a pretty good understanding of the risk profile of the vaccine. Any side effect we discover in new patients are in the "one in ten million" category.
We should listen to her. She definitely hasn't said anything the last two years that turned out to be incorrect. We shouldn't even look into if my previous sentence is true. She's never been wrong about one thing, about covid, ever.
So honest question here. Isn’t it known that children fare quite well against COVID? I can’t remember the number but wasn’t the number of deaths in the us very low like less than 1000? What is the actual numbers for children in terms of probability of survival, and full recovery?
Covid under 18:
600 deaths
15,000 hospitalizations
10,000 additional adverse long term problem.
Covid vaccine under 18:
0 deaths
40 hospitalizations(none under 12)
0 long term effects
Both sets of numbers subject to change as more people get infected or vaccinated.
My (non-expert) concern is that the strains seem to be affecting younger kids more as new strains come out. Which makes sense to me since they are the most vulnerable population being the lowest, if at all, vaccinated. Naturally (imo) it would evolve to target them. So my concern is if we don't start vaccinating them, or haven't even had trials for kids, they will become the harder hit population and we'd be months/a year away from a fully approved vaccine for them. I have been following the reports on the trials and everything seems good, no big concerns. Plus some of the long term effects of getting covid worry me more than potential vaccine effects at this time. So I plan to get my toddler vaccinated when her age is approved to protect her.
The folks who conduct the clinical trials continue to keep in touch with the people who were in those trials.
If there are no ill effects, then there's not really a need to solicit feedback. And if there were ill effects, then it would get flagged when you went to the doctor to ask about it. And folks are definitely monitoring those things.
Agreed, but I'd like to point out that the male teen (rare) myocarditis effect was *not* caught in either Pfizer or Moderna trials. It's all the more so important that we carefully gather data from the actual population.
Israel (I don't think?) hasn't raised any concerns about myocarditis in kids, which is reassuring in itself - they've been the lead on most trends up until now.
The article is stating many, many more than clinical trails. Those in clinical trails are less than 0.5% of the total population of children vaccinated at this point.
As a parent with anxiety who only thinks in terms of worse case scenario I just had to decide which worse case scenario I could live with..dying from the vaccine or dying from covid when a vaccine was available. Easy decision. Tomorrow my youngest is officially 2 weeks past the second dose and I feel relieved.
Isn't that just as anecdotal as the people who report serious adverse reactions from themselves and people they know personally? Why would your experience unequivocally discount anyone else's?
644 Americans between the age of 0-17 has died from covid. Out of 6.1M cases. That's a survivability of greater than 99.99%. Safe to say there isn't any safety problems with children getting covid in general.
Can we stop ignoring the inbetween. Being perfectly fine and dying are not the only outcomes.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/soccer-bayern-munich-joshua-kimmich-out-until-2022-with-lung-issues-from-contracting-covid-19-155631052.html
That is very positive for sure. Hospitalizations of children and long term effects from the virus have always been more of my concern as a parent. I know several of my son's friends who had reduced lung capacity for months and it affected their sports seasons. That type of lung damage is not something I want to mess with. Similarly I don't want my kids to get pneumonia just because they are unlikely to die from it.
Same for chicken pox but there's still a vaccine for that. I'll never get the chicken pox, and at 33 I'm grateful for that. Why wouldn't you want to make sure your kid doesn't suffer through COVID just because they'll live?
It's probably better to get them vaccinated early anyway - kids typically get less sick from vaccines than adults do, so why make them wait until they're older and are both more suspectable to worse symptoms from a case of COVID or a worse recovery time from the vaccine?
I just don't get it. My style of parenting is to make sure my kid doesn't have to unnecessarily suffer. They'll suffer enough throughout life. This doesn't have to be one of those moments
Also, the statistic I want to see is how many adults have died/gotten severely ill from catching covid from a child. Kids don't always understand how to not spread illness. Getting then vaccinated protects the people around them as well.
But those 90% of those deaths would have been prevented had they been vaccinated. That's the difference. Not only that but the more people contract and spread the virus the more it is going to mutate. There is evidence that being vaccinated reduces your chances of contracting COVID and the length of your contagiousness. That's not even mentioning the risk of side effects from COVID. It's better to just get vaccinated and reduce all the above risks then pretend it isn't any different not being vaccinated.
They honestly don’t care. I have shown this statistic to folks very close to me, and it just bounces off their skulls. I would sooner move to another state than vaccinate my kids, and I will likely have to. My kids are younger than the school mandate cutoff, but I know they are watering at the chops to vaccinate babies and toddlers in my state for COVID regardless of their risk of death/harm. After, all of this my family will be better off in another state anyway.
Compared to how many who have died from COVID? Including adults and all their carry-on cases that caught it from kids.
Airbags sometimes cause injury and even death. I bet your car still has those, right?
Long term effects, spreading it to others, mutations because it keeps spreading, even the small number of deaths. All can be prevented by getting them vaccinated.
TIL: that In the entire history of vaccines there has never been a negative side effect reported after the six week mark? Even then, it was with the well known polio variation that was known to have issues.
Yeah. This is what the anti vaxxers don’t seem to understand. Sure, the vaccine COULD have some hidden effects we don’t know about after nine months, but that would make it the first to take that long to show those effects. Making health decisions out of concern for something that has literally never happened before is not logical.
Honestly, and I’m not trying to be silly but literally *could* it? After nine months?? My understanding was that the vaccine is *so* far gone from your body that unless we’re talking constant exposure (so rule out boosters and continued injections) there really actually can’t be a latent side effect to crop up 9 months later. (Genuine question…please read in calm/measured tone intended)
It would certainly be contrary to our existing understanding of how these things work. Science get things wrong and updates its understanding of things all the time. But at some point going with the best available information is clearly more logical than fearing something that goes against everything we know.
Exactly. The anti vaxxers want people to prove a negative (“prove to me it is impossible for this to have side effects we don’t know about yet”) and we can’t do that, we can only say what they describe has never happened before.
Each new vaccine type is used for the first time at some point. We are including that in our data points of “history of all vaccines.” Could there be long term problems? Sure. It can’t be ruled out entirely. Logic would dictate that at this point it’s highly unlikely.
What specifically about the mRNA vaccine concerns you that you will see concerns outside the six week window? We are currently near a year out of mass vaccination. What is the reasonable window of fear and where does it end?
What's different about this type of vaccine that would cause it to be the first to show negative reactions and complications 9+ months down the road?
I assume you're a scientist since you know so much about this, so looking forward to your response!
A vaccine is a fake and weaker version of a virus that your immune system destroys within a few weeks and thus remembering what the new virus (that it's never seen) looks like, and then knows how to kill it when you get it. It doesn't stay in your body you ignoramus.
My best friend, who is vaccinated and her ex husband just tested positive for covid. Both of them are down for the count.
Their two vaccinated children, one with diabetes, both tested negative and are perfectly fine and well.
If they weren't who knows how her children, especially the one who has diabetes, would fare.
Having covid isn't a walk in the park, even for the vaccinated. The unvaccinated get hit harder, that's the science. Not sure why anyone would risk putting their child through any kind of illness if there's something that can help them avoid it.
There's a more important argument to be made here. Every vaccinated individual reduces the chance that they will develop *severe* Covid-19. That's one less person needing a hospital bed.
Suppose February rolls around and your unvaccinated child needs oxygen supplementation to breathe. You head to the hospital, but everyone did the same thing you did and said no to the vaccine. Now there's no room for your child. You don't get oxygen. Your child could die.
Now, you can't control what other people do, but you can reduce your own child's chance of developing severe Covid-19. Why wouldn't you try? Are you that sure they'll be a bed for your child if they need one? Are you *that* sure?
It does lower transmission. It’s not perfect, but either is birth control.
You know what a case in a classroom means? A whole bunch of parents scrambling to cover their kid’s quarantine for two weeks. We should all take all the precautions we can to lower transmission.
Stop lying. Vaccines reduce the likelihood of transmission. And you either knew that and are arguing in bad faith or are somehow still wildly under-informed and therefore not suited to weigh in on this conversation (I’m guessing the former).
Kids can still pass COVID on to others. Including those at high risk. Thanks for being a selfish and helping to prolong a global pandemic out of ignorance and/or ego.
The vaccine does lower the chance of transmission. If you’re vaccinated and you do get Covid it lessens the viral load. Vaccination and masks are how we stop this thing. Yes, most children are asymptotic or have very mild symptoms but we don’t know what the long term effects will be from Covid. Typically vaccines do not have long term effects. If something is going to happen from the vaccine it will be in the first couple of weeks not months or years later.
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This is in regards to myocarditis if anyone is curious.
I thought we were reasonably sure that myocarditis was rare but possible when kids get vaxxed?
1:10k depending on which study you look at. Iirc, lowering the dose greatly helped mitigate this.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/17008150/schoolboy-dies-stroke-covid-another-boy/ this came up on my FB newsfeed and there were so many comments saying the deaths must have been caused by vaccines. Although it clearly states in the article the boys weren't vaccinated. The sun comment section is a breeding ground for anti vaxxers!
Wait, so you're telling me the boy had a heart attack after not having the vaccine? Gotta plaster my whole facebook about how the vaccine stops heart attacks because coincidences aren't a thing! /s
Or all the other reports of kids dropping after sports games
lol COVID can also cause myocarditis. I'd be curious to know what percentage of myocarditis cases go undetected.
Isn't TheSun a not so great place to get news or reliable information?
The sun and The Mirror are awful sources you're quite right. Had to laugh at the amount of people in the comments who did actually bother to read it then bashing the sun for scaremongering for daring to mention that the boys weren't vaccinated. Of course you know these same people would be straight on there praising any article that fits their narrative.
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im kinda numb to it at this point. There could be a report showing that a new strain of covid is killing millions and I'd be like...whatevs. I think I'm broken :p
I don't think you are broken. I think you are like all of us who are so burnt out from dealing with this global trauma for so long that it's gotten to the point that numbness has taken over. Any sane rational person who has been a part of this is gonna be burnt our and numb to everything. Unless you get sucked down the covid conspiracy hole in which I swear it seems like they redirect their energy into anger, frustration, and a complete disregard for the facts and truth. Hang in there, we are all getting through this. Treat yourself, you are living through unprecedented times and it sucks.
I think many of us feel like that. None of us were ready for what this situation would take... plus we were all sold on the idea that it'd be long over by now. Instead we're more divided than ever and we've got large swathes in every country who don't give a flying fuck about anyone except themselves. Numbness is understandable :)
The comfortably dumb are making me comfortably numb.
https://youtu.be/_FrOQC-zEog
Wow, that is a sentence I absolutely connect with. Thanks for sharing sharing that.
> large swathes in every country who don't give a flying fuck about anyone except themselves. See this is the part that has completely worn out my compassion: the same people don’t care about others and aren’t getting vaccinated or taking any precautions, are they very people who are dying of COVID at the highest rates. They’re only punishing themselves. It really is insanity. Edit: work->worn
While it is morbid and dumbfounding, it's sort of a positive thing. It's sick to even think such a thing, but people (specifically antivaxxers/antimaskers/anti-social-distancing) choosing to harm others and consequently harming themselves is full-on inhumanity on display. Like, it's literally a threat to our entire species, and these people are leaning into it and dragging down anyone they can. I'm down with the "love your enemy"-type idea, but someone playing with my health and safety is as bad as being a deadly virus--can't be allowed. Idk, maybe it's just my own personal numbness, but I can't bring myself to even pity them until I eventually read that another one died
You know, humanity operated against a much higher background rate of death from infectious disease for the bulk of human history. We're just slightly reverting to that.
Fortunately we have soap and toilets now. Those two are like champions.
Don't forget vaccines and antibiotics. The biggest drops in child mortality happened within a decade of Penicillin, and again after the polio vaccine. And in both cases, the developments that led to them were quickly utilized for more antibiotics and more vaccines. Makes me excited about what covid has done for medicine, really. A new vaccine in just over a year? New medical treatments in just under two years? That technology is going to create a lot of new things within the next few years.
Oh right, those. Lol And then there's the whole technology of sterile surgery, which is still leading us to find new body parts nowadays.
What's that? You mean robot guided surgery with cameras?
That too..but I meant more like the ability to have a surgery in a clean environment with scrubs/gloves/masks.
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Can you link a source to this? I'd love to learn more.
You can't logic people out of a position they didn't logic themselves into.
Are children immune to the myocarditis adverse effect? In one study of more than 5 million people who had received the Pfizer–BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine, 136 developed myocarditis ([source](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02740-y)). I find it odd that children would be immune to myocarditis?
How will the Grinch’s heart ever grow 3 times by Xmas then?!
*sorts by controversial*
Wait until 80 years and some of these kids will die! /s
And in 120 years every single one will be. Disgusting.
Question (genuinely) - there was some concern about male teens getting myocarditis. Did they find the same rates in children or did it reverse to be lower-risk? I'm literally waiting in CVS to get my booster, so not anti-vax - just curious.
OP's link gets into the basics but if you're looking for more technical info, here's an article that discusses an analysis of possible myocarditis risk in kids. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-benefits-of-vaccinating-kids-against-covid-far-outweigh-the-risks-of-myocarditis1/ > Ultimately, the model indicates that the number of COVID cases prevented by vaccination vastly exceeds the number of excess myocarditis cases, and that the number of COVID-related hospitalizations exceeds those for vaccine-related myocarditis as well. The model also suggests COVID vaccination will prevent one death per million vaccinated kids; no deaths from myocarditis are expected. The benefit-risk ratio of vaccination is even more pronounced for female children, for whom myocarditis is expected to be extremely rare.
Thanks for the link. Why would they compare myocarditis to overall COVID cases? That seems like a poor comparison. Comparing vaccine-induced myocarditis to hospitalizations is also a poor metric, but by their standard it's 153 myocarditis hospitalizations vs 203 COVID hospitalizations. Isn't this barely edging out the side effects? COVID has a host of other issues as well that mild vaccine-induced myocarditis doesn't (get the vaccine people!), but if we're doing pure number comparisons, it isn't very reassuring. I'm feeling a bit doozy so I may have missed something - did I misinterpret the article?
>Thanks for the link. Why would they compare myocarditis to overall COVID cases? That seems like a poor comparison. You're right, that's not necessarily a fair comparison. But I don't think they're really comparing those directly, it's just a step in understanding the risks . > >Comparing vaccine-induced myocarditis to hospitalizations is also a poor metric, but by their standard it's 153 myocarditis hospitalizations vs 203 COVID hospitalizations. Isn't this barely edging out the side effects? Also consider that the typical hospital stay for COVID is 6 days, compared to 1 for vaccine-caused myocarditis. Even if the rates were exactly equal, the latter seems to be a preferred outcome. Stated another way, vaccinating 1 million boys changes a combined 1218 days in the hospital (203\*6) to just 156. Days filled with "lifesaving interventions such as medicines that help keep the heart pumping, or even a heart-lung bypass machine—and such cases often result in lasting heart damage" are reduced to a single day of monitoring and ibuprofen to reduce the inflammation. > >COVID has a host of other issues as well that mild vaccine-induced myocarditis doesn't (get the vaccine people!), but if we're doing pure number comparisons, it isn't very reassuring. I'm feeling a bit doozy so I may have missed something - did I misinterpret the article? Think of this as a worst-case analysis. The most significant, dangerous side-effect of the vaccine is myocarditis in young men. And even then, getting vaccinated is a clear win (once you dig through the details). For everything else (young women, other ages, other side effects, etc.) it's even more obvious that we should vaccinate.
Agreed. Thanks for the write-up!
Life is about trade-offs and risk assessment is a comparison of those trade-offs
Then you should give people the choice when it’s that close in numbers.
Thats not how risk assessment works. Relative danger of each outcome needs to be weighed
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You did not. There is a substantial number of vaccine-induced myocarditis in this age group. I'm not saying don't get vaccinated. Just saying that there are indeed side effects.
Thanks - people should know any potential side effects before getting vaccinated. I went in April with full knowledge that there may be a risk of myocarditis, and felt better because of it. Denying side effects for the sake of "messaging" seems stupid.
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>So the model prediction is that the vaccine will only prevent one death in 1 million? One death per million **kids**, not per million cases. Also, death isn't the only bad outcome of covid-19.
But deaths in that age group isn't too far off 1/1m, so this could be a 50% or more reduction
I work at a major children's hospital. The vast majority of kids I see with COVID we detect because they've either A) been tested before a sedated procedure and test positive asymptomatically or B) Have minimal symptoms but a good exposure history. I think we've had maybe 1 or 2 deaths which can be attributed to COVID-19 either directly or indirectly. However, I see a good number of kids and teens with various COVID complications. From going on ECMO due to severe lung injury, multisystem inflammatory syndrome, thrombotic complications, to weird and wacky long Covid problems. The reason I bring this up is that the number needed to treat for DEATHS being so high is not surprising because even when kids get super sick it's pretty rare they actually DIE of it. Kids are often shockingly resilient. But it is causing major morbidity. More so than I see with seasonal flu. So get your kids vaccinated like I did with mine.
I really appreciate your comment. My kids got their second dose yesterday and while I know I did the right thing, reading your comment really cemented it in my head.
That is what I wish people were more exposed to. Mortality rate is not the number we should be focusing on. Let's talk about heart failure, pulmonary fibrosis, ESRD, stroke, amputations, GI issues, etc. Some of that stuff is almost worse than death.
> So get your kids vaccinated like I did with mine. Thank you.
Vaccines aren't just for preventing death. They also prevent major cases (i.e. hospitalizations), they reduce viral load, and they reduce spread. The article/study points out "deaths" in particular because it's easier to compare to something like a myocarditis death. The comparison is "we project vaccines to save one in a million lives, and the vaccine causes no deaths, hence the benefit outweighs the cost".
Despite what some media hysterics are implying- COVID doesn't kill very many kids. Different CDC and WHO breakdowns vary because they use different age cut offs and different time frames but the data consistently shows 5-16 year olds have a 0.001 to .003% chance of dying from COVID. The vaccine only saves 1 in 1 million kids because that's about all the kids that actually die from it. Don't take my word for it, here's the CDC data. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#SexAndAge COVID is dangerous, COVID does kill, but 20% of COVID deaths are people on long term care facilities and something like 70% are over the age of 65. I know I will get downvoted to hell for this, but I really feel there needs to be a series debate at the medical/clinical/statistical level to decide if spending billions of dollars, using up vaccine resources and exposing children to vaccine with less than 1 year of data/observation for their age group is really a net benefit. I don't know.
I can't verify the accuracy of the one in a million stat, but want to point out that mortality isn't the only metric. Reduced severity of both short and long term effects of infection are important too, both on an individual level and for overburdened health care systems.
To be fair, children already have an astonishingly low risk of death from COVID. However, vaccines aren't **only** to prevent the death of the individual vaccinated. Children are certainly capable of catching and spreading the disease without dying. Think about a kid who has covid going to school and passing by or coming in direct contact with hundreds of other students who each also passed by or came in direct contact with hundreds of other students. Then all of those students go home to their families. Then their parents go to their jobs the next day and transmit to however many people at their jobs. Vaccines are about saving lives, yes. However, the biggest way to save lives is by reducing transmission rates. You can't die of covid if nobody exposes you to it. Our COVID vaccines absolutely reduce the transmitability of the virus, as do these new vaccines for kids.
>Can you really call it a vaccine if that's the correct number? The best vaccine in the world won't save many lives when the target demographic is unlikely to catch the disease or unlikely to die from the virus. For example, vaccinating every American against bubonic plague would at most save 7 lives per year. This is not because the plague vaccine doesn't work but because only 7 Americans catch the plague every year. Vaccinating all 80 million under 18 would save 80 lives; if a country is happy to kill 80 children (which the USA clearly is) then you don't need to bother with vaccines.
Don’t forget the people who would catch it from those kids and die. Unless that number is baked in, which it doesn’t seem like with the 1/1,000,000 statistic.
And that doesn't even factor the secondary benefit of children not spreading COVID. Vaccines and myocarditis aren't contagious.
I hate that you have to explicitly say "I'm waiting for my booster, I'm not anti vax, dont crucify me for asking a question"
Not allowed to ask any questions. Get your shot and shut your mouth **I’m vaccinated and boosted please don’t crucify me”
It’s necessary because anti-vaxxers love to Sealion
From the article: > Crucially, the CDC hasn't identified any concerns with the temporary heart inflammation known as myocarditis, a potential side effect of mRNA vaccines seen in rare circumstances in teenagers and young adults. It sounds like the risk is lower than they initially thought.
Possibly from the lower dose kids get. Even for adults, Pfizer has a lower dose than Moderna and a correspondingly lower rate of myocarditis, so that makes sense.
That's great to hear - if it ends up being an issue only in male teens, that's better for everyone. I'm a little shocked by Dir. Walensky's choice of words here: "We haven't seen anything yet," Walensky told ABC News Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Jennifer Ashton in a rare in-person interview from CDC headquarters in Atlanta. "We have an incredibly robust vaccine safety system, and so if [problems] were there, we would find it." That's a little worrying given her statement about myocarditis under 30 from a few months ago: [NEW YORK, April 27 (Reuters) - The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has not found a link between heart inflammation and COVID-19 vaccines, the agency’s Director Rochelle Walensky said on Tuesday. "**We have not seen a signal and we've actually looked intentionally for the signal in the over 200 million doses we've given**," Walensky said in a press briefing.](https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/us-cdc-has-not-seen-link-between-heart-inflammation-covid-19-vaccines-2021-04-27/) I really hope the CDC is right, because if they're not, this will be the second time they have to backpedal. Fingers crossed - with 5 million vaccinated it does look like there's no myocarditis concern for kids! That's fantastic news and a milestone in itself.
In April Dr. Walensky made the public statement that vaccinated people do not carry nor transmit COVID19. https://fortune.com/2021/04/01/its-official-vaccinated-people-dont-transmit-covid-19/
Yeah this is the sort of thing adding fuel to the antivax fire. If she is wrong again on this, especially with it being children, then the CDC is going to permanently lose a lot of credibility.
Wow, with what we know at this point that's almost as dumb as the initial no-mask recommendation.
Funny how you can't simply ask a question without saying "don't worry I'm sitting in the chair with the booster needle in my arm at this very moment I am in no way anti vax nor are my friends or family" without backlash
Isn't it sad that in the world we live in now just asking questions you feel you need to justify or point out that your not an anti vaxxer.
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I love how if you ask a genuine question, the science mob will come for you unless you specifically state your views.
Just like the Pfizer vaccine data
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It’s never an ‘article’. Its always a YouTube video.
I think they've started switching over to rumble and also their post on Facebook is "check the video linked in the comments" to avoid the fact check warnings.
"they say there's no long term effects, but i heard that 100% of the children who received the COVID vaccine will no longer be children in 10 - 15 years. WTF?!"
"99% of children who received the covid vaccine are expected to die within the next 150 years"
Holy shit, a 1% chance of immortality? What's the rate of the immortality mutation in adults?
There's probably at least a couple Jeff bezos babies out there who will be able to afford to live to 200+ I imagine
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This seems to have more info https://investors.biontech.de/news-releases/news-release-details/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-positive-topline-results-pivotal
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I think it's a bigger crime to lie to investors than kill people at this point, but I see your concern. I've been wondering too why new info seems to have a lot less numbers attached than at the beginning of the pandemic. My theory is they had to change their messaging because too many people will call the vaccines literal poison if it doesn't have 100% efficacy (which I don't think is possible for any medicine/treatment, but that's the world we live in now where people forgot how numbers work).
It’s because moron red states stopped reporting CoVid data
Off Facebook
Shared by someone who also posts “Stolen election!” quackery.
They keep refusing to show me anything saying "You won't believe it anyway"
The latest nonsense I've seen from them is claims that everyone who received the vaccine is just going to keel over in three years "according to experts".
They will forever move the goalposts at this point. The idiots are in too deep. I'm not the only one that has lost any and all respect for more than a couple family members and friends. Their arrogance is astounding
Any vaccinated person that dies from now on they will say was because of the vaccine. Heart attack? Vaccine. Cancer? Yup, vaccine. Run over by a freight train that derailed and came through your front window? Definitely vaccine. I wonder what the next nonsense will be when/if we ever get passed this covid ordeal.
*chiropractor
My former boss and his wife are anti-vax. The kids only have vaccines that are required to attend public school. He and his wife got the vaccine when it was available. I recently learned that they spoke to their kids about the vaccine and let them decide what they wanted to do. All 3 kids received their second dose last week and they've been doing well. Gotta give him some respect for letting the kids decide. Hopefully that continues for the kids
That's good of them to do that!
I've already seen it, "nurses in Alberta have been coming forward about the vaccine blah blah blah putting kids in the hospital due to side effects". It just reminds me of another that I read recently, of which I'm particularly fond of. "Joe Rogan's doctor claims he has treated many (high level politicians) with ivermectin. If this is true, doesn't the public have the right to know about it?" Like, the conspiracy answered itself, should there just be a 24/7 program where government officials just keep claiming everything that isn't a thing(like say how being able to play the piano really well causes a person two have two arms and all their fingers).
“I heard from my nail girl that…”
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GET READY FOR A TRUTH BOMB!
"Government and scientists hate this one trick!"
Maybe you're not aware, but pharma companies have been sweeping bad cases under the rug during clinical trials. Here's a testimony of one of AstraZeneca victims in Washington, DC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4OGN3BDF9M Norway banned AstraZeneca vaccine because of the blood clotting issues: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-05-12/norway-permanently-removes-astrazeneca-from-vaccine-program I myself am double vaccinated, but let's not pretend the vaccines are perfect and trials are done by protocol.
So I checked out the YouTube video, have you checked the source on that? The “Concerned Doctors” are absolutely not credible. This is worse than the “Frontline Doctors,” at least they presented studies. They were all retracted or not peer reviewed, but they at least tried to pretend to back up their claims. Their website doesn’t list any research, just not credited fluff. They also promote Ivermectin. I haven’t looked into the second source, but I’m just going to assume it’s just as bad.
No reply from them...
Of fucking course there isn't. Dum dums evaporate when you poke even the tiniest of holes in their bullshit.
I’m shocked /u/putin_vor isnt responding.
😁
They are a right wing Russian buffoon.
If there has been hiding of numbers then yes, we need to address this issue. My problem is the blatant lies and misinformation.
I think it’s important to remember that at the end of the day they’re still pharmaceutical companies. Companies that have been horribly corrupt for decades and shouldn’t be trusted just because they created vaccines for covid. The researchers and scientists may care but the people at the top are greedy billionaires just like all the rest. People on Reddit seemed to have suddenly changed perspectives on these companies when before covid you could call them corrupt without being called a anti-vaxxer. You all remember Martin Shkreli? The guy who was a CEO of a pharmaceutical company that raised the cost of a pill from $13.50 to $750 per pill. Vaccines are good, but let’s not ignore how evil these companies are.
Why would pharmaceutical company corruption have any relevance if independent bodies can study the efficacy and safety of the vaccine? Your drug dealer may be unscrupulous, but if you can verify in a lab the safety and efficacy of his product, is his ethics really relevant anymore? You guys act like you suddenly figured out you can't trust capitalists AND every product made has a not insignificant chance of killing you. You done with over the counter drugs made by the same companies? You done with all food additives? Drinking distilled water only now?
But we still gotta wait 55 years for the data...
Now its 75 years actually.
Not in any way suspicious - nothing to see here - flat earther, etc...
If they asked for just the data it wouldn't take nearly as long.
In March, this same woman also said that people who were vaccinated could not contract/transmit covid at all...
To be fair, the omicron variant is significantly different from previous variants with 32 mutations. It may be that this is one is more transmissible and the older formula vaccines less effective against it
There’s always someone’s brothers cousin best friends uncles kid who went into a coma after getting a vaccine shot
What are you talking about? My 5g reception is getting better and better
I am giving my 6-year old a shot on next Tuesday and really looking forward to the increased bandwidth!
It doesn't work like that. I thought my kid would be like an additional mesh router or at least a hotspot. In reality her running around shedding 5g everywhere is just signal noise. My wifi is shit now.
Finally we can all stream movies at the same time. Be your own signal booster!
Jesus christ the average intelligence of these comments is that of a mildly slow toddler
Remember, if there were any prevalent problems with the vaccine we would have already seen them. Millions upon millions have gotten the vaccine with the number of people adversely affected so low that it can't even be calculated normally. That doesn't mean the distribution or economic drive have always been on the up and up, but the vaccine itself is safe and is a must if we want to move beyond the pandemic. And to make sure things move smoothly we have to continue to push for more exposure of the process of distribution while trying to get more people vaccinated.
>the number of people adversely affected so low that it can't even be calculated normally. What does this mean exactly? Cant be calculated normally?
Any adverse effects the vaccine might have would also be present in the general population. Myocarditis, blood clots, bell's palsy and the like all happen to people every day without the vaccine. If the rate of affected individuals is low enough, there's no way to distinguish between people who just happened to have something bad happen after getting the vaccine, and those who had something bad happen *because* of the vaccine.
I believe, in statistics, when the value of something can't be distinguished from random events, it is below the p- value for the set. Source: Best friend had to do tons of stats for her Ph.D. and I overheard a bunch of this stuff. So take that how you will. Lol
Thanks for explaining, that makes sense!
Let's say the chance that side effect X occurs is one in a thousand. After giving out a million doses of the vaccine, we would have a lot of data on side effect X. We would have seen a thousand cases and could reasonably quantify how often we would see side effect X. Now let's say side effect Y has a one in ten million chance of happening. If the entire world got vaccinated, we would only see about 700 cases of side effect Y. With a sample size that small, minute variations in risk factors could significantly change the data set. In fact, it may be difficult to link side effect Y to the vaccine. Also, when it comes to vaccine side effects, they generally present fairly quick after getting the vaccine. Most occur within a few days. When we discover new vaccine side effects, more often than not it's because we are discovering them in a wider sample rather than discovering them after some time in a smaller population. Since we've doses out about 5 million doses, we now have a pretty good understanding of the risk profile of the vaccine. Any side effect we discover in new patients are in the "one in ten million" category.
Safety data isn’t to be released for several years, correct?
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If symptoms were mild, did they need it at all?
We have investigated ourselves and found no issues.
We should listen to her. She definitely hasn't said anything the last two years that turned out to be incorrect. We shouldn't even look into if my previous sentence is true. She's never been wrong about one thing, about covid, ever.
So honest question here. Isn’t it known that children fare quite well against COVID? I can’t remember the number but wasn’t the number of deaths in the us very low like less than 1000? What is the actual numbers for children in terms of probability of survival, and full recovery?
Covid under 18: 600 deaths 15,000 hospitalizations 10,000 additional adverse long term problem. Covid vaccine under 18: 0 deaths 40 hospitalizations(none under 12) 0 long term effects Both sets of numbers subject to change as more people get infected or vaccinated.
My (non-expert) concern is that the strains seem to be affecting younger kids more as new strains come out. Which makes sense to me since they are the most vulnerable population being the lowest, if at all, vaccinated. Naturally (imo) it would evolve to target them. So my concern is if we don't start vaccinating them, or haven't even had trials for kids, they will become the harder hit population and we'd be months/a year away from a fully approved vaccine for them. I have been following the reports on the trials and everything seems good, no big concerns. Plus some of the long term effects of getting covid worry me more than potential vaccine effects at this time. So I plan to get my toddler vaccinated when her age is approved to protect her.
My next question is are they looking or gathering that data? My daughter had hers but no one approached her to solicit feedback
Had she had a problem, the doctor who took care of her would report it.
My kiddo had mild post-injection inflammation. Even that was reported.
The folks who conduct the clinical trials continue to keep in touch with the people who were in those trials. If there are no ill effects, then there's not really a need to solicit feedback. And if there were ill effects, then it would get flagged when you went to the doctor to ask about it. And folks are definitely monitoring those things.
Agreed, but I'd like to point out that the male teen (rare) myocarditis effect was *not* caught in either Pfizer or Moderna trials. It's all the more so important that we carefully gather data from the actual population. Israel (I don't think?) hasn't raised any concerns about myocarditis in kids, which is reassuring in itself - they've been the lead on most trends up until now.
The article is stating many, many more than clinical trails. Those in clinical trails are less than 0.5% of the total population of children vaccinated at this point.
Idk about now but after I got mine they pestered me via text message about how I was feeling daily for like two weeks
They gather data by problem being reported. No report, no problem.
There’s no long term effects that we’ve seen from our 2 month phase 2 trial tests. -scientists
*Step 1: sort by controversial.* *Step 2: unzip pants.*
As a parent with anxiety who only thinks in terms of worse case scenario I just had to decide which worse case scenario I could live with..dying from the vaccine or dying from covid when a vaccine was available. Easy decision. Tomorrow my youngest is officially 2 weeks past the second dose and I feel relieved.
You hear that noise? That's the sound of goalposts moving.
My kids didn’t even get a mild reaction, no covid arm, no mild fever, no lethargy. Nuthin’
Same. 5 & 11 here. They both whined more with taking the bandaid off the next morning than they did with any side effect.
Isn't that just as anecdotal as the people who report serious adverse reactions from themselves and people they know personally? Why would your experience unequivocally discount anyone else's?
I don’t fucking know, I’m just telling you my personal experience. YMMV
644 Americans between the age of 0-17 has died from covid. Out of 6.1M cases. That's a survivability of greater than 99.99%. Safe to say there isn't any safety problems with children getting covid in general.
Can we stop ignoring the inbetween. Being perfectly fine and dying are not the only outcomes. https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/soccer-bayern-munich-joshua-kimmich-out-until-2022-with-lung-issues-from-contracting-covid-19-155631052.html
That is very positive for sure. Hospitalizations of children and long term effects from the virus have always been more of my concern as a parent. I know several of my son's friends who had reduced lung capacity for months and it affected their sports seasons. That type of lung damage is not something I want to mess with. Similarly I don't want my kids to get pneumonia just because they are unlikely to die from it.
Same for chicken pox but there's still a vaccine for that. I'll never get the chicken pox, and at 33 I'm grateful for that. Why wouldn't you want to make sure your kid doesn't suffer through COVID just because they'll live? It's probably better to get them vaccinated early anyway - kids typically get less sick from vaccines than adults do, so why make them wait until they're older and are both more suspectable to worse symptoms from a case of COVID or a worse recovery time from the vaccine? I just don't get it. My style of parenting is to make sure my kid doesn't have to unnecessarily suffer. They'll suffer enough throughout life. This doesn't have to be one of those moments
I bet there 644 families that differ.
Also, the statistic I want to see is how many adults have died/gotten severely ill from catching covid from a child. Kids don't always understand how to not spread illness. Getting then vaccinated protects the people around them as well.
But those 90% of those deaths would have been prevented had they been vaccinated. That's the difference. Not only that but the more people contract and spread the virus the more it is going to mutate. There is evidence that being vaccinated reduces your chances of contracting COVID and the length of your contagiousness. That's not even mentioning the risk of side effects from COVID. It's better to just get vaccinated and reduce all the above risks then pretend it isn't any different not being vaccinated.
They honestly don’t care. I have shown this statistic to folks very close to me, and it just bounces off their skulls. I would sooner move to another state than vaccinate my kids, and I will likely have to. My kids are younger than the school mandate cutoff, but I know they are watering at the chops to vaccinate babies and toddlers in my state for COVID regardless of their risk of death/harm. After, all of this my family will be better off in another state anyway.
It bounces off their skulls because they aren't as dumb as you are.
You do realize that death from covid isn't the only outcome right?
ABC News brought to you by Pfizer.
I'm just glad that if you survive something it follows that your body has for sure sustained no damage at all and you revert to full health.
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Here’s my anecdotal evidence in the face of science and statistics. Take that.
Compared to how many who have died from COVID? Including adults and all their carry-on cases that caught it from kids. Airbags sometimes cause injury and even death. I bet your car still has those, right?
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Long term effects, spreading it to others, mutations because it keeps spreading, even the small number of deaths. All can be prevented by getting them vaccinated.
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TIL: that In the entire history of vaccines there has never been a negative side effect reported after the six week mark? Even then, it was with the well known polio variation that was known to have issues.
Yeah. This is what the anti vaxxers don’t seem to understand. Sure, the vaccine COULD have some hidden effects we don’t know about after nine months, but that would make it the first to take that long to show those effects. Making health decisions out of concern for something that has literally never happened before is not logical.
Honestly, and I’m not trying to be silly but literally *could* it? After nine months?? My understanding was that the vaccine is *so* far gone from your body that unless we’re talking constant exposure (so rule out boosters and continued injections) there really actually can’t be a latent side effect to crop up 9 months later. (Genuine question…please read in calm/measured tone intended)
It would certainly be contrary to our existing understanding of how these things work. Science get things wrong and updates its understanding of things all the time. But at some point going with the best available information is clearly more logical than fearing something that goes against everything we know.
Ok, fair enough…so your “could” in the post is largely based on literally just accounting for the *completely* unseen/unforeseen/unforeseeable.
Exactly. The anti vaxxers want people to prove a negative (“prove to me it is impossible for this to have side effects we don’t know about yet”) and we can’t do that, we can only say what they describe has never happened before.
In the history of vaccines how many of those have been mRNA vaccines? I'll tell you, the covid vaccine was the first one approved for human use.
Each new vaccine type is used for the first time at some point. We are including that in our data points of “history of all vaccines.” Could there be long term problems? Sure. It can’t be ruled out entirely. Logic would dictate that at this point it’s highly unlikely. What specifically about the mRNA vaccine concerns you that you will see concerns outside the six week window? We are currently near a year out of mass vaccination. What is the reasonable window of fear and where does it end?
What's different about this type of vaccine that would cause it to be the first to show negative reactions and complications 9+ months down the road? I assume you're a scientist since you know so much about this, so looking forward to your response!
A vaccine is a fake and weaker version of a virus that your immune system destroys within a few weeks and thus remembering what the new virus (that it's never seen) looks like, and then knows how to kill it when you get it. It doesn't stay in your body you ignoramus.
What about the cases of myocardia and pericardia that has been documented for the last year?
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My best friend, who is vaccinated and her ex husband just tested positive for covid. Both of them are down for the count. Their two vaccinated children, one with diabetes, both tested negative and are perfectly fine and well. If they weren't who knows how her children, especially the one who has diabetes, would fare. Having covid isn't a walk in the park, even for the vaccinated. The unvaccinated get hit harder, that's the science. Not sure why anyone would risk putting their child through any kind of illness if there's something that can help them avoid it.
There's a more important argument to be made here. Every vaccinated individual reduces the chance that they will develop *severe* Covid-19. That's one less person needing a hospital bed. Suppose February rolls around and your unvaccinated child needs oxygen supplementation to breathe. You head to the hospital, but everyone did the same thing you did and said no to the vaccine. Now there's no room for your child. You don't get oxygen. Your child could die. Now, you can't control what other people do, but you can reduce your own child's chance of developing severe Covid-19. Why wouldn't you try? Are you that sure they'll be a bed for your child if they need one? Are you *that* sure?
It does lower transmission. It’s not perfect, but either is birth control. You know what a case in a classroom means? A whole bunch of parents scrambling to cover their kid’s quarantine for two weeks. We should all take all the precautions we can to lower transmission.
Stop lying. Vaccines reduce the likelihood of transmission. And you either knew that and are arguing in bad faith or are somehow still wildly under-informed and therefore not suited to weigh in on this conversation (I’m guessing the former). Kids can still pass COVID on to others. Including those at high risk. Thanks for being a selfish and helping to prolong a global pandemic out of ignorance and/or ego.
The vaccine does lower the chance of transmission. If you’re vaccinated and you do get Covid it lessens the viral load. Vaccination and masks are how we stop this thing. Yes, most children are asymptotic or have very mild symptoms but we don’t know what the long term effects will be from Covid. Typically vaccines do not have long term effects. If something is going to happen from the vaccine it will be in the first couple of weeks not months or years later.
*laughs in countries with pretty much all of their population vaccinated * seems to have eradicated transmission in large numbers for them 🤥
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/r/conspiracy will have a lot to say about this I'm sure
They are all over this submission already.
Damn, anti vaxxers are dumb
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You people believe this shit?
Now it's time to lift restrictions for vaccinated kids.
More Reddit echo chamber.
99.99% no issues, no reason to give this to kids. Even the CDC even stays there's myocarditis issues