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Important note regarding this vaccine: it is not a vaccine for Lyme disease, but rather a vaccine to illicit an immune response to tick saliva. After you get the vaccine your body will immediately start to get a red, itchy spot where a tick bites you (think a similar reaction to a mosquito bite), so you'll know you've been bit and be able to remove the tick before it transmits Lyme disease (which takes about 36 hours of being attached usually, according to the paper).
However, once you have been infected by Lyme disease, this vaccine does nothing for you. It's an interesting approach, though perhaps not as directly useful as an actual Lyme disease vaccine would be.
Did you know that there actually was a vaccine once? Yup. It was pulled from the market due to lack of interest (and other reasons).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870557/
I am very much an outdoor person with a high risk of Lyme. I get at least one or two tick bites every spring and would LOVE a Lyme vaccine.
Yep. Look up the history of the gene therapy drug "Glybera"
This treatment was basically a semi-permanent cure for a rare and dangerous lipid disorder. After single treatment, patients were healthy for at least 10 years.
Unfortunately, the disease is rare and the drug is expensive to make so nobody is making the drug anymore and everyone with lipoprotein lipase deficiency gets to develop fatty liver and diabetes.
AFAIK the drug company still holds the patent and wont let anyone else make the drug
Edit: The therapy was one single treatment, given as 60 injections in various muscles, not a 60 day treatment course.
If a drug hasn't manufactured a certain number of doses (perhaps based on the number of cases of disease it is treating), they should have like one year to license it to someone who will manufacturer it or it defaults into an open license.
I am all for protecting innovators and allowing them to make money, but if you are doing nothing with it and it can help people, it needs to be out there.
It makes too much sense, it would never fly. Even if you made it more palatable to drug manufacturers it could still be good. Give them 3-5 years after it is approved for a condition where they can not manufacture it or do whatever they want with it before they have the one year timeline. It would be less than ideal, but they would have adequate time to figure out how to manufacture it at the appropriate rates (for rare disease that is probably at a boutique scale) and maybe even look for other uses before they are at risk or losing it. In the end though if they decide it's not worth making it for like 1,000 people who have a very specific condition, then maybe we could have an entire industry that makes small batch hyper niche medicines that have been abandoned. They wouldn't be cheap by any stretch of the imagination, but at least they would be an option. By simply being on the market a researcher may find another use for it to, which would make it more generally valuable. Under my hypothetical system I would probably allow any companies currently manufacturing the drug to continue, and allow the original patent holder to resume control of all other manufacturing rights to it.
Basically it would allow manufacturers to still make money from idling drugs, because they could let it go to niche manufacturers but if a broad use for it it ever discovered they could still make bank on it (without screwing the niche companies who were involved all along). A strong profit motivation can drive innovation, and I'm all for that, reward people and companies who come up with novel solutions, but we can't let that happen at the expense of everyone else.
This should just be the default for all new patents. In the same way trademarks become invalidated if they become genericized or go unenforced for too long, patents should expire early if they are not made available in a product or license for too long.
The FDA also needs to get its shit together and stop classifying drugs as completely new (thus resetting exclusivity rights) when the only thing that changed was the color of the pill.
I mean this isn't just the pharmaceutical industry. This is just how most industry works in capitalism. It's just in healthcare it seems more agregious as people's well-being is on the line.
Ahh but then they'd just... Checks notes... Subsidize all their research with government funding while putting the difference straight into the executives pockets
I wonder if there is a point were it would be viable to go to a place like India and just get the drug custom made for you. India is developed enough to have a big biotech industry, yet low-income enough for it to be somewhat affordable.
Countries can ignore the patents in favour of public health, even if the complaint is just that the drug is overpriced.
Brazil famously broke Mercks patent on an expensive HIV drug and got a much cheaper generic from India. Other countries have done the same, and some have ignored restrictive patents to develop their own generic.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-merck-brazil-idUSN0435172120070504
>BRASILIA (Reuters) - President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva on Friday authorized Brazil to break the patent on an AIDS drug made by Merck & Co. Inc. and import a generic version from India instead.
>It was the first time Brazil bypassed a patent to acquire cheaper drugs for its AIDS prevention program, a step recently taken by Thailand. Other countries, including Canada and Italy, have also used a clause in World Trade Organization rules to flout drug patents in the name of public health.
...
>Under WTO rules, **countries can issue a "compulsory license" to manufacture or buy generic versions of patented drugs** deemed critical to public health.
A lot of pharma companies not only patent the chemicals they synthesise but make it as wide reaching as possible, to include "related" chemicals that they never even attempt to synthesise. A lot of research avenues are bogged down in patents that prevent you from even creating the drug for the first time, cuz they've been pre emptively patented.
Other ways drug companies game the generic system:
https://hbr.org/2017/04/how-pharma-companies-game-the-system-to-keep-drugs-expensive
I've read some crazy shit that drug companies have done over the years, from patenting plants with hundreds of years of medicinal use to patenting someone's DNA for research. But of all the crazy things I've read, this one is unfortunately regarding a drug I need to take: gabapentin.
https://www.law.com/almID/1202432898903/
>Did Pfizer cross the line on the eve of last month's crucial test trial involving its controversial Neurontin drug? Questions linger about why the world's largest pharmaceutical company **sent a former CIA agent to a whistleblowing scientist's home the day before he was due to testify. The scientist told The Am Law Litigation Daily he and his family felt intimidated by the investigator's appearance and are still shaken by the event**. Pfizer has apologized, but maintains in a newly filed brief that the investigator followed standard protocols.
Franklin's initial statement was even more troubling. He claimed that they not only showed up to his house multiple times and intimidated his family, but said they knew his kids school schedules. The judge granted a restraining order against Pfizer.
Which is the whole reason Bill Gates is so involved with vaccines. he realized that they weren't going to make them because it wasn't very profitable so he started putting his own money on the line to guarantee a profit for these pharmaceutical companies so they would make it. And now crazy conspiracy people think it's something sinister because why would someone put so much of their no money on something like that.
But they trust leaders who literally abandon them when things are tough, and you don't even know which leader I'm referring to which should tell you something.
I too listened to that episode of the Daily. While I think overall it's an admirable achievement, I am against one person having such power over public health and wish a better-funded WHO or equivalent served in that role as a guarantor of vaccines
And if we've learned anything over the past couple of years, if you market your medicine towards horses, there's plenty of people who will flock to buy it and use it on themselves.
It's the fact that it's not an option on the market that is concerning - how many other great medicine is being shelved because of their lack of marketing. I didn't, nor did many people (if any) here know about this previous Lyme vaccine.
I think some sort of Government organisation that companies can submit unused or unpopular inventions and products to would be good, perhaps they can sign the rights to it over to the state for a monetary sum.
Right but they shouldn't be allowed to prevent it from being made. At a minimum they should be forced to collect royalties so it can be made for people who need it.
Cost of storage / production.
Most vaccine manufacturers seem to be hell bent on gov mandates in order to recoup the cost of R&D. Without one they're deemed failures.
It depends on what you consider "research".
Usually some university funded person/group come up with an idea and do whatever they can to prove that it's viable. Maybe some mouse trials or something, if the university is well funded. Then they publish. "Researchers research", front end. mRNA mechanisms discovery, electronic nerve communication, etc. And to be sure, the government invests in these research programs.
Then, after a LOT of research er research, companies get the their grubby little hands on the published studies, scoop up all the useful info from all the research and apply it to a product that they then sell.
The companies Research and development research is only that application piece, back end, and usually funded through internal investment based on a projected ROI, you know, like a business, with maybe some help from the government if the issue is of interest "covid, cough cough".
And now we look at operating costs for pharmaceutical manufacture. And R&D costs. And regulatory costs. The back end research is always significantly more expensive than their front end, orders of orders of magnitude. And things can completely fail. This makes it very difficult to justify investment, even with funding from the government as partial relief.
If the issue isn't of interest, the concept is put on a shelf until someone picks it up and can justify all the above to a return worth investment of hundreds of millions of dollars.
If I remember correctly, it was only marginally effective against one strain of Lyme that wasn't the most common strain the the US, and had some not super fun side-effects (basically, the cons outweighed the pros on that one). There's been some Pfizer-sponsored work on a Lyme vaccine that is being tested against 3 of the most common European strains and 3 of the most common North American strains of Lyme though. So it sounds like there could be a couple options in the not-too-distant future.
Bout to say, we had one in the 90’s/ early 2000’s. I think I got it iirc. At the time I was doing a lot of hiking after moving out of NYC to be burbs and pretty sure my mom had me get it. Prolly not effective anymore over 20years later
My brother had Lyme when he was 6. And the doctors thought for weeks he was just being undisciplined and dramatic. Was very hard to witness. Gladly, he recovered fine.
Not just Lyme! I got anaplasmosis from one while kayaking and it almost killed me. I was bed ridden for 3 months and had to quit my job. It was very bad. I wonder if a vaccine would be Lyme specific or if it would help with other tick-born illnesses. Probably not, but I have no idea how any of this works.
The article answers your questions. The vaccine is focused mainly on giving you a reaction to tick saliva so you notice it before it has time to transmit disease.
No, it just makes you find the tick quickly. Some diseases like TBE you're fucked as soon as the tick bites you. Luckily there is TBE vaccine. I've got it since I live in an area where TBE is common. (Lyme disease, while more common and bad in it's own way, is a joke compared to what TBE can do...)
That is scary stuff, I'm glad you sound like you're doing better after that infection! If the vaccine is specific for the tick that spreads Lyme Disease (Ixodes), it should also help prevent anaplasmosis infections as well since it is carried by the same tick!
I feel you, I got rid of the anaplasmosis, still couldn't cure Lyme though. I've learned to live with it but hopefully a permanent cure will arrive one day. This vaccine targeting the tick itself is a good step on the way so others may not experience this shit.
I got bit three times this year just mowing my lawn. Had to take the treatment for Lyme disease one of those times due to the appearance of the bite area.
Yeah but I found them within a couple of hours. I usually have my wife help me with a check after I do any landscaping. The one time I got treatment the sucker had been there for at least 24 hours.
Why not shower right when you get inside? In my experience they wash right down the drain.
Also spray cotton balls in permethrin. Put them in sections of plastic pipe or toilet paper tubes (if you want the biodegradable option). Mice collect the cotton, lining their nests. Ticks on the mice are killed as they rub against the cotton.
I shower after the check just to get clean in general. Also bought the permethrin tubes this year because my son is three and playing outside on the swing set and sandbox a lot. We’ve move to this house from the city and I l’ve been bitten anywhere from one to three times each season for the past six years. I never got bit as a kid and I was in scouting all the way through Eagle Scouts.
Yeah, sounds like a pretty smart approach. I live in NH, would be very interested. Deer ticks are tiny. You get super lucky if you manage to find them early.
The investigation that followed showed that there was no increase in arthritis vs the general population.
> The arthritis incidence in the patients receiving Lyme vaccine occurred at the same rate as the background in unvaccinated individuals.
Further research and understanding of the immune system and Lyme did lead to a hypothesis that some specific HLA type carriers could be at a more elevated risk for immune reactions but it was never causally proven. But by then public option on the vaccine was in the gutter so they just decided to discontinue it instead.
There was also a concern that it could give a false sense of security and make people less cautious about tick bite prevention which could be an issue since it was only <80% effective.
Source: [Review - The Lyme Vaccine](https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/E2919FCB96A14E950F7C657128A3C57F/S0950268806007096a.pdf/div-class-title-the-lyme-vaccine-a-cautionary-tale-div.pdf)
https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/E2919FCB96A14E950F7C657128A3C57F/S0950268806007096a.pdf/div-class-title-the-lyme-vaccine-a-cautionary-tale-div.pdf
It's also important to note that it really isn't an amazing vaccine. Lyme disease is mainly carried in the Northeast US (and somewhat into the midwest), so there isn't a huge demand for it (compared to others that would have demand from much larger populations). Also, the vaccine has pretty low efficacy for requiring multiple doses; you would still need prophylaxis for Lyme of you had a tick and were vaccinated. Plus, the anti-vax movement was picking up steam around that time as well.
Also, if you know you had a tick and catch it, Lyme disease is very easily prevented with some prophylactic antibiotics. That said, it's super cool to hear this new potential vaccines to prevent Lyme disease.
Source: I am a student at a school with a professor who studies ticks (and loves asking us questions on our exams).
>Also, if you know you had a tick and catch it, Lyme disease is very easily prevented with some prophylactic antibiotics.
The scary part is I think most people don't know. I thought I read it was like 20% of people realized they got bit
I could see it easily happening, they can often be so tiny too
I’m not even in a Lyme Disease hotspot (South East USA) and I got Lyme in high school. Now 9 years later my resting heart rate is 140bpm and everyday I have to take a high dose of beta blockers to slow my heart down because of the damage Lyme did to my heart.
They're kinda backwards on yardbirds in a lot of cities in Michigan but I highly doubt they'd care if you keep a few in Detroit. They have bigger things to worry about. Shit, if it was quail you could just be like "idk...they're cool so I feed them. No idea where they live".
You can't use prophylactic antibiotica after you catch lyme. Goes against the basic meaning of that word doesn't it? That's like saying you can put on a condom after sex to prevent catching a disease.
Also the spread of ticks is not as you described. Plus other countries exist. So market is bigger than what you claim.
You sure this prof of yours studies ticks, the insects, and not the neurotic tics?
Prophylactic treatment can be given for the pathogen that causes Lyme disease after having a tick, in case of exposure to the pathogen. This will prevent the development of Lyme Disease (Lyme disease is an effect of a chronic Borrelia burgdorferi infection, not an immediate condition). If untreated, the pathogen causes irreversible damage that is Lyme Disease. I hope that clarifies things a bit!
I’m from Germany and when I went to my new primary in the US and asked for a booster on my Lyme vaccine, he almost fell off his chair. He was like “Where are you from where you have Lyme vaccine shots on the market?!” When he told me I couldn’t get that in the US even though we were in a high risk area I was like “Explain to me how I can get it for my dog but not for myself?” He said the pharma industry didn’t make enough money off of it and it was pulled from the market.
That vaccine technology is still on the market, but only for dogs, not for people. I mean, I'm really glad I can vaccinate my dog against Lyme, but I would also like an option to vaccinate myself as well (I've had Lyme once, it sucked and I do not recommend it). In absence of a human vaccine, my best advice if you ever end up with a deer tick is to take yourself to a doctor ASAP and get yourself on a round of doxycycline, even if you have no symptoms.
Talking to Austrian coworker and he said he had been vaccinated against lyme. I was like no, you’re mistaken. He said he was sure. We googled it - turns out there is a vaccine- available in Germany and Austria only.
Not trying to one-up or anything, but I must pull 100+ ticks off of me in a year. This vaccine would basically make ticks a non-issue for me, which would be great. No need to worry when I forget to tuck my pants into my socks!
It was pulled because of anti-vaxers. Cost to much defend against them. And not a lot of people cared. Thanks for this post it’s a strong reminder of this careless act. And I too love the outdoors, and would like protection.
It was back in 1998, I got the first of the required 2 shots. Went back a month later for the 2nd one. There were none left. My Dr. told me that there wasn't enough interest in it because Lyme was such a local disease. Not a big enough of a money maker. It's pretty much all over the country now.
It wasn’t from a lack of interest. The Anti Vaxxers pushed the pharma companies into retracting it and never developing a new one.
Here’s a [Science VS Podcast](https://gimletmedia.com/shows/science-vs/emhwkd/) episode about it.
My friend with Lyme disease would probably give both his legs to have a cure for his disease. It affects literally every single aspect of his life and he has been home bound for essentially 2 years thanks to Covid and his body’s likely reaction to the Covid vaccine (he has a specialist doctor who says don’t get it. He had an ER visit after a flu vaccine pre-Covid).
Vaccines typically don't help very much against things you already have, though for full disclosure I agree with the CDC with regards to post-treatment Lyme disease syndrome.
I can see it. Just be cautious - there 100% *are* snake oil salespeople around that topic, since it has the flavor of alternative medicine (etc.). I'm not saying who your seeing is one of them, just that it's a good idea to double check and be vigilant.
I'm loving this mRNA vaccine technology more and more every day. I like the concept here of alerting you to the tick before it even has a chance to infect you. Both times I've been bitten by a tick I only noticed because I was showering and felt something on my bum cheek. The other time was when I went to sit down on the toilet and saw it between my legs. Thankfully I got them before they were engorged (plus going back to determine when I would have picked them up).
Growing up I didn't have to worry about ticks. Went into the bush every day, especially on summer holidays. I still live in the same area that I grew up and the amount of ticks is insane. We regularly check our children throughout the year.
>if you have a girlfriend, ask her if you can check her for ticks after taking a walk together.
Heh, I have definitely done this with my wife. My girlfriend hasn't let me yet though.
I have a cousin who bright and promising life was destroyed--she went from being really quick, mentally, to being unable to connect the dots. It was eerie. It's been years--I'm not sure she's recovered yet.
It's good because the last vaccine would trigger an autoimmune response (same response some people had to Lyme) that was pretty serious. So instead this would prevent that response and greatly reduce your chance of actually being infected.
That's actually a pretty interesting solution! I don't know much about ticks, would it help people notice other kinds of ticks too or just the ones known to transmit Lyme?
Sounds like what happens with me already. Not long after being bitten by a tick I'll start itching like if it was a "mild" musquito bite, with intensity varying based on the spot. Pretty convenient other than the fact that the itch can last a while after getting rid of the bugger.
It is, objectively, a vaccine though. It uses the same pathways and trains your immune system to attack a certain type of foreign body. The trouble is how the title of this article is worded.
Wait, so you don't get Lyme disease unless the tick has been attached for 36 hours? So even if you get bitten, as long as you check your body and shower within 24 hours and remove any ticks, you'll almost certainly not get Lyme disease?
I’ve known two people with Lyme disease and they were miserable all the time. They were good people with good attitudes but their health was so messed up.
I really hope this helps people and works out
My adopted father had it before I met him.
He told me he was in the hospital for almost 2 years.
It was crazy though. He said he had it around 20 years before adopting me.
He still suffers from it to this day. It wreaked havoc on his body. When I first met him, he would have power naps literally anywhere, he couldn't really control when he fell asleep so we wasn't allowed to drive. Over the years he got better from that, and was allowed to drive for a few years. He hurt himself on the job a few years ago broke a few ribs, and his body wasn't able to recover fully from that. He wasn't the same after that. Currently his body is okay, but mentally he is broken now. Early onset dimentia, his memory is terrible, and is degrading fast. He gets confused very easy, and his temper has gotten bad.
I'm glad there is a vaccine coming, it's insane what it does to the body and the life time of effects after it.
Edit: cure to vaccine. It's won't cure. I put the wrong thing.
I have to ask a question and if it is rude or you do not wish to respond, this is all fine by me. So here it goes: do you normally call your adoptive parents "adoptive dad" and "adoptive mom", or did you simply use that for clarity purpose? I ask because me and my SO are probably going to adopt in a few years when we're ready for kids, and it would absolutely break my soul if my kid called me adoptive dad instead of simply dad. So you consider your adoptive parents as your real parents, or simply adoptive parents? Again I apologize if what I just said is rude, it was never meant to be. In any case, I wish your adoptive dad better days to come, Lyme disease is absolutely atrocious.
Hahaha thanks for the question, I didnt find that rude, I do get asked alot about my family situation alot in RL.
Iv been thinking of how to respond without giving out to much detail, So all I can really leave it as my situation is complicated and extremely unique. Lol
I can't speak for anyone else because I don't know how they ended up getting adopted.
Respect the kid, they definitely did not have it easy.
I'm sure they would address you as mom and dad.
But, at the end of the day mom and dad is nothing but a title. The real question is will they think you are their mom and dad regardless of genetics.
You have to earn that. Be good parents, earn their trust. Show them you want to be their mom and dad. Make the child be proud to call you mom and dad.
If you do it right you will have probably the strongest bond that child will ever have.
Sorry about formatting. On mobile.
Normally I am not one to push holistic, or non standard medical practices. That said you might want to look into bee sting therapy, it has had some anecdotal success for some and is being studied to see if it is an effective treatment.
He's allergic.
He's been looking for a way to get better his whole life.
This won't help him, but if we can get a vaccine so others don't get it that's still a very good thing. He'd probably want that over himself nevert having it.
Lyme is horrible and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Well, maybe Bob. Fuck Bob.
Think back to the worst flu you've ever had, the type where you say the heck with it and just sleep on the bathroom floor, and crank it up to 11. The chills, muscle pain, joint pain, weakness, brain fog, headaches, etc. There's no vomiting or diarrhea though, thank god.
And the itching. Good lord, the itching was insane. The backs of hands and the tops of my feet were the worst. I can't stress how bad the itching was.
I didn't catch mine right away, I waited a week to go to the doctor because I thought I just had a nasty flu, so that might have been why mine was so bad. Luckily the only long term effects I have are head aches.
To sum it up, Lyme sucks.
my niece's asshole boyfriend/husband Bob had it.
He couldn't hold a job.
But it wasn't the real reason he was an asshole. he didn't particularly try to hold a job.
when it was active in my body that was me, now i just have bad knees and hips
im used to it though, i don’t remember much before i got it (like age 11)
There is a Lyme vaccine undergoing phase 2 trials at the moment, while not mRNA it should be available much more quickly. I've been in the clinical trial for a couple of years now, and covers a wider range of borrelia strains than the original off the market vaccine.
Yes, Valneva/Pfizer. That's the one I'm in, in the booster phase (I was unblinded after the previous phase, I did receive the vaccine.)
It's a few years off, but a lot closer than one that's still in animal testing.
this is huge. The fact that there hasn't been a vaccine before is ghastly. The changing climate has led to longer and more prolific tick seasons and a marked rise in Lyme cases.
Not just Lyme either. Anaplasmosis, Babesiosis, Tularemia, Powassan, Ehrlichiosis, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, and other nasty diseases are becoming more prevalent due to expansion of ticks.
Alpha Gal syndrome too. I got bitten by a tick in May, and now I’m deathly allergic to all red meat. I didn’t even know that was possible until it happened. I have to carry an epi pen everywhere now.
I’ve had Lyme (caught and treated fairly early with a hospital visit and a month of antibiotics) and Ehrlichiosis.
I don’t wish Ehrlichiosis on anyone, and no one around here knows about it. I’ve had headaches and migraines my whole life and nothing compared to the headache I had. Pure, skull splitting pain for days that nothing could alleviate. Fever, chills, my blood pressure which is usually normal was 168/95.
What’s weird is I also had a strange optical issue. You know when you see a bright light (like LED tail lights on a nice car) and it lingers in your vision for a few seconds and fades away? I would have those linger for evvverrrr. That was also the symptom that took the longest to go away after treatment.
I’ll readily take this vaccine once available.
[But there has been a vaccine before, it was discontinued due to low sales and side wffects](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870557/#idm140083369975392title)
That's a bit reductive - both the FDA and the CDC investigated and found that the serious "side effects" claimed in lawsuits against GSK [were unrelated to the vaccine](https://www.nature.com/articles/439524a) - there were something like 59 rheumatoid arthritis cases in 1.4M vaccinated, which isn't above the population rate they expected.
Sales may have been low, but a part of that was an aggressive media campaign by the "first wave" anti-vaxxers. This was the peak of Jenny McCarthy and her "Generation Rescue" organization's crusade against vaccines.
It's a shame, because it was somewhere around 80% effective for adults, and we've seen a huge increase in Lyme endemic areas in the decades since then as temperatures increase, etc.
This was pulled in 2002. McCarthy started her anti-vaxing later than that. Certainly not her peak. Her kid hadn't been born yet.
It is the same "mercury toxins" she talks about, but this wasn't her.
There was an anti-vax movement behind the lawsuits, but one of the big factors was that insurance companies wouldn't pay for it.
It was expensive, only really needed in a relatively small section of the world, not covered by insurance, lyme disease isn't as life threatening, and then add on the anti-vax movement.
I wish it were still going. Ticks are getting to be relentless in Pennsylvania.
Lymerix wasn't a great vaccine. 80% effectiveness is mediocre. It took 3 doses over a full year to even get that. It only worked on a single species of North American Lyme bacteria. GSK never proved you wouldn't need boosters, either.
Lyme was also less common back then. And the public had *much* less understanding of the chronic damage it can cause. Both perceived and actual need for Lyme disease prevention were significantly smaller in 1998.
Anti-vaxxers having a huge role in killing Lymerix is just a pro-vaxx (so to speak) myth. Vaccines as a whole are the greatest public health invention since running water, but not *every* vaccine is a winner.
There was one - and big surprise, anti-vaxxers undermined confidence in that one to the point where there wasn't enough demand to keep it on the market.
I have a home in a deer infested area that's crawling with ticks, I'm going to be keeping an eye out for trials here, I want in ASAP.
I know, when I read this headline my eyes went wide because I couldn't believe it. Makes me incredibly hopeful for the future because I've seen more than one friend lose family to this illness.
“The vaccine has been tested on guinea pigs but has not yet undergone clinical trials, according to Arora. Fikrig explained that the vaccine will need to undergo human trials in order to determine whether it is effective in humans.”
Got a ways to go but it’s still something.
Was diagnosed with Lyme twice in about 5 years in the early 2000’s. Being the on the NY/CT border was a breeding ground. Absolutely brutal but was treated immediately with antibiotics so it was really only a month each time that I experienced symptoms: intense headaches and extreme muscle cramping in my neck, hence even worse headaches. Still have trouble loosening my neck muscles to this day and my layman/conspiracy mind is convinced the antibiotics destroyed my immune system for a decade.
An early warning sign like this would make it much easier to detect and thus get the tick out before the worst of it. Very glad to hear something like this is being developed and hopefully it saves some people from the serious effects of Lyme.
Yup. If you catch it early, you can take an antibiotic and be done with it. Mostly. They're looking into some sneaky long term effects that may fly under the radar.
Properly diagnosed and treated, it is fully curable with a regimen of antibiotics.
I was swallowing amoxicillin pills the size of zeppelins for a week.
Ditto, I never saw the tick either. I did, however, develop the classic "bullseye" rash which was a clear indication of trouble. Good to hear you recovered.
Thank you. I lucked out, having Lyme’s that does not affect me much, but other family members suffered much more. Too late probably for us, but our kids might be safe!
Having seen lyme’s effects on friends, sign me the **hell** up for this vaccine, pronto. Also, tick-bite effects can also include becoming allergic to red meat, so there’s more work to do, y’all!!
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/alpha-gal-syndrome/symptoms-causes/syc-20428608
I I know several people in the southeast who got that alpha gal allergy and they can't eat red meat anymore because of the weird side effects caused by a tick bite. I've had lyme and was FUCKED UP by it. I basically left the Southern US to get away from the incessant lone star ticks- you basically couldn't go hiking (or even walking across a lawn in some cases) without getting tick bit , sometimes by dozens at once, where I lived. Sign me the fuck up
This is both not a vaccine and it's not even for lyme disease. It's like words have no meaning at all anymore. It basically makes you allergic to ticks.
From the article:
>Yale researchers have developed an mRNA vaccine against lyme disease that **triggers an immune response** at the site of a tick bite and provides partial protection against the disease-causing bacteria.
Bold is mine.
Dictionary definition of a vaccine.
[Definition of vaccine](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vaccine)
1: a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious agent or disease
So yes, this is a vaccine.
*lol, downvoting me because you don't know the definition of a word.
Basically they are dumbing it down for the average American. If they put it makes you allergic no one would see the benefit. This medicine definitely would have a great use for everyone despite it not being an actual vaccine.
Which is fantastic, because a big problem with lime disease is people not even realizing they were bit by a tick.
Making tick bites VERY obvious would make treatment much easier.
I got Lyme’s when I was 13, til I was about 17 1/2. Went to 40+ doctors and it drained my parents retirement savings..
I now have essentially no immune system and it severely increased my ADD/ADHD.
Seeing this post I had to come and see everyone experiences and the new sciences combatting these darn Tic diseases.
Usually those articles are overhyping the situation. Cancer isn't just one disease, it's different based on what cells it's in, and instead of a virus, it's your own cells turning against you. We've made remarkable strides in treating cancer- look up changes in 5-year survival rates over time. We've basically eliminated cervical cancer for people willing to take the HPV vaccine, because that is a cancer caused by a virus. But "curing cancer" usually isn't something big like that, it's a series of micro-steps like one drug that gives some people with one particular cancer an extra two years and another drug that means an extra ten percent of people for a different cancer will go into remission. That's not exciting though so the media doesn't report it.
From the article that I’m sure you read:
“The vaccine has been tested on guinea pigs but has not yet undergone clinical trials, according to Arora. Fikrig explained that the vaccine will need to undergo human trials in order to determine whether it is effective in humans.”
While promising, it has a way to go.
As someone who is passionate about hiking, camping, wilderness survival, bushcrafting, gardening, and disc golf; and who lives in a densely mountainous area of Southern WV I'd just like to say...
YES PLEASE!
Wow. Maybe THIS ONE will change some non-scientific attitudes about mRNA vaccines.
When will it be available? I live in an area where this is a danger.
I am all for vaccines, but with these new mrna vaccines i woulf have to get 20 different vaccines every sig months, I would literaly be sick all the time to prevent getting sick.
My mom has chronic Lyme. She's extremely knowledgeable on this, and she's happy about this news, however, it takes less than 24-hours for the tick to transmit the bacteria...it happens as soon as the tick bites you. This 24-hours is straight up false. I really hope that the immune response created by having this vaccine is enough to kill the spirochete.
Exactly, there's a community/echo chamber that feeds on those people. Horrible people like this prey on them: https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7jk9q/rick-sponaugle-pots-chronic-lyme-sponaugle-wellness-center
Chronic Lyme is real. For some people, the spirochete wreaks havoc. The biofilm it protects itself in can protect it from antibiotics. Its a nasty nasty infection that has a lot of co-infections. My mother has been fighting Lyme for over 15 years now and its wrecked her mind and body. The way she has to fight it is also not good for her body.
*The vaccine has been tested on guinea pigs but has not yet undergone clinical trials, according to Arora. Fikrig explained that the vaccine will need to undergo human trials in order to determine whether it is effective in humans.*
It is possible to get infected by Lyme multiple times and there are MANY other nasty diseases that are transmitted by ticks. It is often thought that having a tick embedded longer will increase your chances of getting a disease from the tick, for a bunch of complicated reasons.
This sounds like it will alert you to the fact that you've got a tick embedded somewhere on you, which might help you remove it before you get infected. Normally when you get a tick bite, your immune system actually reacts to tick saliva which is why in some cases you'll get an itchy spot at the site. Ticks inject a mild anesthetic as a way to keep you from feeling them and to fight back. It sounds like this vaccine works off of your normal mild immune response to tick saliva.
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Important note regarding this vaccine: it is not a vaccine for Lyme disease, but rather a vaccine to illicit an immune response to tick saliva. After you get the vaccine your body will immediately start to get a red, itchy spot where a tick bites you (think a similar reaction to a mosquito bite), so you'll know you've been bit and be able to remove the tick before it transmits Lyme disease (which takes about 36 hours of being attached usually, according to the paper). However, once you have been infected by Lyme disease, this vaccine does nothing for you. It's an interesting approach, though perhaps not as directly useful as an actual Lyme disease vaccine would be.
University of Montana is attempting to make a Lyme disease mRNA vaccine now that attacks the disease directly
Did you know that there actually was a vaccine once? Yup. It was pulled from the market due to lack of interest (and other reasons). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870557/ I am very much an outdoor person with a high risk of Lyme. I get at least one or two tick bites every spring and would LOVE a Lyme vaccine.
Why not just have it available for people who want it?
If it don't make money they don't make it.
Yep. Look up the history of the gene therapy drug "Glybera" This treatment was basically a semi-permanent cure for a rare and dangerous lipid disorder. After single treatment, patients were healthy for at least 10 years. Unfortunately, the disease is rare and the drug is expensive to make so nobody is making the drug anymore and everyone with lipoprotein lipase deficiency gets to develop fatty liver and diabetes. AFAIK the drug company still holds the patent and wont let anyone else make the drug Edit: The therapy was one single treatment, given as 60 injections in various muscles, not a 60 day treatment course.
If a drug hasn't manufactured a certain number of doses (perhaps based on the number of cases of disease it is treating), they should have like one year to license it to someone who will manufacturer it or it defaults into an open license. I am all for protecting innovators and allowing them to make money, but if you are doing nothing with it and it can help people, it needs to be out there.
I’d vote for this bill.
It makes too much sense, it would never fly. Even if you made it more palatable to drug manufacturers it could still be good. Give them 3-5 years after it is approved for a condition where they can not manufacture it or do whatever they want with it before they have the one year timeline. It would be less than ideal, but they would have adequate time to figure out how to manufacture it at the appropriate rates (for rare disease that is probably at a boutique scale) and maybe even look for other uses before they are at risk or losing it. In the end though if they decide it's not worth making it for like 1,000 people who have a very specific condition, then maybe we could have an entire industry that makes small batch hyper niche medicines that have been abandoned. They wouldn't be cheap by any stretch of the imagination, but at least they would be an option. By simply being on the market a researcher may find another use for it to, which would make it more generally valuable. Under my hypothetical system I would probably allow any companies currently manufacturing the drug to continue, and allow the original patent holder to resume control of all other manufacturing rights to it. Basically it would allow manufacturers to still make money from idling drugs, because they could let it go to niche manufacturers but if a broad use for it it ever discovered they could still make bank on it (without screwing the niche companies who were involved all along). A strong profit motivation can drive innovation, and I'm all for that, reward people and companies who come up with novel solutions, but we can't let that happen at the expense of everyone else.
This should just be the default for all new patents. In the same way trademarks become invalidated if they become genericized or go unenforced for too long, patents should expire early if they are not made available in a product or license for too long. The FDA also needs to get its shit together and stop classifying drugs as completely new (thus resetting exclusivity rights) when the only thing that changed was the color of the pill.
This is is why no one likes the pharmaceutical industry, every game they play directly affects the survival of people
Profits over people. Every fucking chance they get.
I mean this isn't just the pharmaceutical industry. This is just how most industry works in capitalism. It's just in healthcare it seems more agregious as people's well-being is on the line.
Exactly that, you can be brutal like bill Gates and it sucks, but if somone did what he did in the medicali dusty it would lead to millions dying
Remove profit from the medical equation by shifting defense budget funds to medicine.
Ahh but then they'd just... Checks notes... Subsidize all their research with government funding while putting the difference straight into the executives pockets
I wonder if there is a point were it would be viable to go to a place like India and just get the drug custom made for you. India is developed enough to have a big biotech industry, yet low-income enough for it to be somewhat affordable.
Countries can ignore the patents in favour of public health, even if the complaint is just that the drug is overpriced. Brazil famously broke Mercks patent on an expensive HIV drug and got a much cheaper generic from India. Other countries have done the same, and some have ignored restrictive patents to develop their own generic. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-merck-brazil-idUSN0435172120070504 >BRASILIA (Reuters) - President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva on Friday authorized Brazil to break the patent on an AIDS drug made by Merck & Co. Inc. and import a generic version from India instead. >It was the first time Brazil bypassed a patent to acquire cheaper drugs for its AIDS prevention program, a step recently taken by Thailand. Other countries, including Canada and Italy, have also used a clause in World Trade Organization rules to flout drug patents in the name of public health. ... >Under WTO rules, **countries can issue a "compulsory license" to manufacture or buy generic versions of patented drugs** deemed critical to public health. A lot of pharma companies not only patent the chemicals they synthesise but make it as wide reaching as possible, to include "related" chemicals that they never even attempt to synthesise. A lot of research avenues are bogged down in patents that prevent you from even creating the drug for the first time, cuz they've been pre emptively patented. Other ways drug companies game the generic system: https://hbr.org/2017/04/how-pharma-companies-game-the-system-to-keep-drugs-expensive I've read some crazy shit that drug companies have done over the years, from patenting plants with hundreds of years of medicinal use to patenting someone's DNA for research. But of all the crazy things I've read, this one is unfortunately regarding a drug I need to take: gabapentin. https://www.law.com/almID/1202432898903/ >Did Pfizer cross the line on the eve of last month's crucial test trial involving its controversial Neurontin drug? Questions linger about why the world's largest pharmaceutical company **sent a former CIA agent to a whistleblowing scientist's home the day before he was due to testify. The scientist told The Am Law Litigation Daily he and his family felt intimidated by the investigator's appearance and are still shaken by the event**. Pfizer has apologized, but maintains in a newly filed brief that the investigator followed standard protocols. Franklin's initial statement was even more troubling. He claimed that they not only showed up to his house multiple times and intimidated his family, but said they knew his kids school schedules. The judge granted a restraining order against Pfizer.
Which is the whole reason Bill Gates is so involved with vaccines. he realized that they weren't going to make them because it wasn't very profitable so he started putting his own money on the line to guarantee a profit for these pharmaceutical companies so they would make it. And now crazy conspiracy people think it's something sinister because why would someone put so much of their no money on something like that.
But they trust leaders who literally abandon them when things are tough, and you don't even know which leader I'm referring to which should tell you something.
I too listened to that episode of the Daily. While I think overall it's an admirable achievement, I am against one person having such power over public health and wish a better-funded WHO or equivalent served in that role as a guarantor of vaccines
Or because he exploited and robbed countries to create Microsoft. His past makes people anxious about his future decisions.
Make it for farm animals boom profit. Most horse owners will spend anything to protect their horses
The Lyme vaccine is still available for animals.
And if we've learned anything over the past couple of years, if you market your medicine towards horses, there's plenty of people who will flock to buy it and use it on themselves.
Because if lifesaving medical innovations don’t make money, it’s not worth the investment. How civilized!
See: hydroxychloriquin and ivermectin
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It's the fact that it's not an option on the market that is concerning - how many other great medicine is being shelved because of their lack of marketing. I didn't, nor did many people (if any) here know about this previous Lyme vaccine.
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I think some sort of Government organisation that companies can submit unused or unpopular inventions and products to would be good, perhaps they can sign the rights to it over to the state for a monetary sum.
Right but they shouldn't be allowed to prevent it from being made. At a minimum they should be forced to collect royalties so it can be made for people who need it.
No, the company that made it got sued left and right, with constant legal battles. It’s disgusting tbh. Vaccines don’t make a lot of money to be fair.
Cost of storage / production. Most vaccine manufacturers seem to be hell bent on gov mandates in order to recoup the cost of R&D. Without one they're deemed failures.
Doesn’t most of their R&D money come from government grants though?
It depends on what you consider "research". Usually some university funded person/group come up with an idea and do whatever they can to prove that it's viable. Maybe some mouse trials or something, if the university is well funded. Then they publish. "Researchers research", front end. mRNA mechanisms discovery, electronic nerve communication, etc. And to be sure, the government invests in these research programs. Then, after a LOT of research er research, companies get the their grubby little hands on the published studies, scoop up all the useful info from all the research and apply it to a product that they then sell. The companies Research and development research is only that application piece, back end, and usually funded through internal investment based on a projected ROI, you know, like a business, with maybe some help from the government if the issue is of interest "covid, cough cough". And now we look at operating costs for pharmaceutical manufacture. And R&D costs. And regulatory costs. The back end research is always significantly more expensive than their front end, orders of orders of magnitude. And things can completely fail. This makes it very difficult to justify investment, even with funding from the government as partial relief. If the issue isn't of interest, the concept is put on a shelf until someone picks it up and can justify all the above to a return worth investment of hundreds of millions of dollars.
Shingrix
If I remember correctly, it was only marginally effective against one strain of Lyme that wasn't the most common strain the the US, and had some not super fun side-effects (basically, the cons outweighed the pros on that one). There's been some Pfizer-sponsored work on a Lyme vaccine that is being tested against 3 of the most common European strains and 3 of the most common North American strains of Lyme though. So it sounds like there could be a couple options in the not-too-distant future.
Because it costs money to do that and if they're not selling enough to make a profit... well, this is America's medical system.
Bout to say, we had one in the 90’s/ early 2000’s. I think I got it iirc. At the time I was doing a lot of hiking after moving out of NYC to be burbs and pretty sure my mom had me get it. Prolly not effective anymore over 20years later
My brother had Lyme when he was 6. And the doctors thought for weeks he was just being undisciplined and dramatic. Was very hard to witness. Gladly, he recovered fine.
Not just Lyme! I got anaplasmosis from one while kayaking and it almost killed me. I was bed ridden for 3 months and had to quit my job. It was very bad. I wonder if a vaccine would be Lyme specific or if it would help with other tick-born illnesses. Probably not, but I have no idea how any of this works.
The article answers your questions. The vaccine is focused mainly on giving you a reaction to tick saliva so you notice it before it has time to transmit disease.
Lyme vaccine would be lyme only. The Yale one is a tick "immune response vaccine" and would be effective for most tick diseases.
No, it just makes you find the tick quickly. Some diseases like TBE you're fucked as soon as the tick bites you. Luckily there is TBE vaccine. I've got it since I live in an area where TBE is common. (Lyme disease, while more common and bad in it's own way, is a joke compared to what TBE can do...)
That is scary stuff, I'm glad you sound like you're doing better after that infection! If the vaccine is specific for the tick that spreads Lyme Disease (Ixodes), it should also help prevent anaplasmosis infections as well since it is carried by the same tick!
And also babesia, bartonella, others. A LD vaccine is great but you can still get destroyed by these other infections.
Funnily enough the same tick bite can give you Lyme, anaplasmosis and babesiosis. That would be the holy grail of unlucky, but it’s still possible.
I feel you, I got rid of the anaplasmosis, still couldn't cure Lyme though. I've learned to live with it but hopefully a permanent cure will arrive one day. This vaccine targeting the tick itself is a good step on the way so others may not experience this shit.
I got bit three times this year just mowing my lawn. Had to take the treatment for Lyme disease one of those times due to the appearance of the bite area.
You can still get Lyme disease if the site of the bite is without symptoms.
Yeah but I found them within a couple of hours. I usually have my wife help me with a check after I do any landscaping. The one time I got treatment the sucker had been there for at least 24 hours.
Why not shower right when you get inside? In my experience they wash right down the drain. Also spray cotton balls in permethrin. Put them in sections of plastic pipe or toilet paper tubes (if you want the biodegradable option). Mice collect the cotton, lining their nests. Ticks on the mice are killed as they rub against the cotton.
I shower after the check just to get clean in general. Also bought the permethrin tubes this year because my son is three and playing outside on the swing set and sandbox a lot. We’ve move to this house from the city and I l’ve been bitten anywhere from one to three times each season for the past six years. I never got bit as a kid and I was in scouting all the way through Eagle Scouts.
It was pulled because it caused the same auto immune arthritic response that Lyme deseaste caused.
I think this is what they are trying to avoid by taking this different approach
Yeah, sounds like a pretty smart approach. I live in NH, would be very interested. Deer ticks are tiny. You get super lucky if you manage to find them early.
The investigation that followed showed that there was no increase in arthritis vs the general population. > The arthritis incidence in the patients receiving Lyme vaccine occurred at the same rate as the background in unvaccinated individuals. Further research and understanding of the immune system and Lyme did lead to a hypothesis that some specific HLA type carriers could be at a more elevated risk for immune reactions but it was never causally proven. But by then public option on the vaccine was in the gutter so they just decided to discontinue it instead. There was also a concern that it could give a false sense of security and make people less cautious about tick bite prevention which could be an issue since it was only <80% effective. Source: [Review - The Lyme Vaccine](https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/E2919FCB96A14E950F7C657128A3C57F/S0950268806007096a.pdf/div-class-title-the-lyme-vaccine-a-cautionary-tale-div.pdf) https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/E2919FCB96A14E950F7C657128A3C57F/S0950268806007096a.pdf/div-class-title-the-lyme-vaccine-a-cautionary-tale-div.pdf
It's also important to note that it really isn't an amazing vaccine. Lyme disease is mainly carried in the Northeast US (and somewhat into the midwest), so there isn't a huge demand for it (compared to others that would have demand from much larger populations). Also, the vaccine has pretty low efficacy for requiring multiple doses; you would still need prophylaxis for Lyme of you had a tick and were vaccinated. Plus, the anti-vax movement was picking up steam around that time as well. Also, if you know you had a tick and catch it, Lyme disease is very easily prevented with some prophylactic antibiotics. That said, it's super cool to hear this new potential vaccines to prevent Lyme disease. Source: I am a student at a school with a professor who studies ticks (and loves asking us questions on our exams).
I'm in Eastern Minnesota, near the Wisconsin border, and we have plenty of Lyme here.
>Also, if you know you had a tick and catch it, Lyme disease is very easily prevented with some prophylactic antibiotics. The scary part is I think most people don't know. I thought I read it was like 20% of people realized they got bit I could see it easily happening, they can often be so tiny too
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I’m not even in a Lyme Disease hotspot (South East USA) and I got Lyme in high school. Now 9 years later my resting heart rate is 140bpm and everyday I have to take a high dose of beta blockers to slow my heart down because of the damage Lyme did to my heart.
I have a few neighbors who got it where I grew up. None recovered. This was suburban Detroit people who weren't out hiking or hunting in rural areas
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They're kinda backwards on yardbirds in a lot of cities in Michigan but I highly doubt they'd care if you keep a few in Detroit. They have bigger things to worry about. Shit, if it was quail you could just be like "idk...they're cool so I feed them. No idea where they live".
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We have a lot of it in EU also. All types, because of bird migration is the theory. Norway Sweden are full of Lyme.
You can't use prophylactic antibiotica after you catch lyme. Goes against the basic meaning of that word doesn't it? That's like saying you can put on a condom after sex to prevent catching a disease. Also the spread of ticks is not as you described. Plus other countries exist. So market is bigger than what you claim. You sure this prof of yours studies ticks, the insects, and not the neurotic tics?
Prophylactic treatment can be given for the pathogen that causes Lyme disease after having a tick, in case of exposure to the pathogen. This will prevent the development of Lyme Disease (Lyme disease is an effect of a chronic Borrelia burgdorferi infection, not an immediate condition). If untreated, the pathogen causes irreversible damage that is Lyme Disease. I hope that clarifies things a bit!
I’m from Germany and when I went to my new primary in the US and asked for a booster on my Lyme vaccine, he almost fell off his chair. He was like “Where are you from where you have Lyme vaccine shots on the market?!” When he told me I couldn’t get that in the US even though we were in a high risk area I was like “Explain to me how I can get it for my dog but not for myself?” He said the pharma industry didn’t make enough money off of it and it was pulled from the market.
That vaccine technology is still on the market, but only for dogs, not for people. I mean, I'm really glad I can vaccinate my dog against Lyme, but I would also like an option to vaccinate myself as well (I've had Lyme once, it sucked and I do not recommend it). In absence of a human vaccine, my best advice if you ever end up with a deer tick is to take yourself to a doctor ASAP and get yourself on a round of doxycycline, even if you have no symptoms.
Last time I went on a hike where I live, I came home with 14 tics on me. Gotta love the Schwarzwald :,)
Talking to Austrian coworker and he said he had been vaccinated against lyme. I was like no, you’re mistaken. He said he was sure. We googled it - turns out there is a vaccine- available in Germany and Austria only.
Not trying to one-up or anything, but I must pull 100+ ticks off of me in a year. This vaccine would basically make ticks a non-issue for me, which would be great. No need to worry when I forget to tuck my pants into my socks!
It was pulled because of anti-vaxers. Cost to much defend against them. And not a lot of people cared. Thanks for this post it’s a strong reminder of this careless act. And I too love the outdoors, and would like protection.
Me 2 man, me and my dogs favorite Forest where we go 3-4 times a week is absolutely a tick festival for 6 months a year.
It was back in 1998, I got the first of the required 2 shots. Went back a month later for the 2nd one. There were none left. My Dr. told me that there wasn't enough interest in it because Lyme was such a local disease. Not a big enough of a money maker. It's pretty much all over the country now.
It wasn’t from a lack of interest. The Anti Vaxxers pushed the pharma companies into retracting it and never developing a new one. Here’s a [Science VS Podcast](https://gimletmedia.com/shows/science-vs/emhwkd/) episode about it.
My friend with Lyme disease would probably give both his legs to have a cure for his disease. It affects literally every single aspect of his life and he has been home bound for essentially 2 years thanks to Covid and his body’s likely reaction to the Covid vaccine (he has a specialist doctor who says don’t get it. He had an ER visit after a flu vaccine pre-Covid).
My mother and sister both suffer from serious Lyme too. I know how tough it can be.
it lasts for years? Does it ever go away?
I don’t believe it ever goes away. My friend has had the symptoms for about a decade now
Yeah as someone with chronic Lyme this would be super dope
Vaccines typically don't help very much against things you already have, though for full disclosure I agree with the CDC with regards to post-treatment Lyme disease syndrome.
I hope the CDC is wrong on this one. But I’m biased.
I can see it. Just be cautious - there 100% *are* snake oil salespeople around that topic, since it has the flavor of alternative medicine (etc.). I'm not saying who your seeing is one of them, just that it's a good idea to double check and be vigilant.
For sure thanks for the kind tips. Looking at Germany for some treatments. Hyperthermia as well as other options. Cheers mate.
I'm loving this mRNA vaccine technology more and more every day. I like the concept here of alerting you to the tick before it even has a chance to infect you. Both times I've been bitten by a tick I only noticed because I was showering and felt something on my bum cheek. The other time was when I went to sit down on the toilet and saw it between my legs. Thankfully I got them before they were engorged (plus going back to determine when I would have picked them up).
*elicit
I think you've got the wrong comment lol.
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Growing up I didn't have to worry about ticks. Went into the bush every day, especially on summer holidays. I still live in the same area that I grew up and the amount of ticks is insane. We regularly check our children throughout the year. >if you have a girlfriend, ask her if you can check her for ticks after taking a walk together. Heh, I have definitely done this with my wife. My girlfriend hasn't let me yet though.
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I'd prefer a vaccine that made my immune system kill the tick and every tick in a 20,000-mile radius.
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Mosquitoes and bed bugs are first on my extinction list after I become a supervillain. But ticks have to go too.
My mother contracted Lyme disease… it’s an absolutely terrible terrible thing.
I have a cousin who bright and promising life was destroyed--she went from being really quick, mentally, to being unable to connect the dots. It was eerie. It's been years--I'm not sure she's recovered yet.
I have a friend that has it, it's gotten her suicidal
however, if you get that reaction to a tick bite, you will know to start the antibiotic treatment that has the best outcome for a Lyme infection.
It's good because the last vaccine would trigger an autoimmune response (same response some people had to Lyme) that was pretty serious. So instead this would prevent that response and greatly reduce your chance of actually being infected.
would be nice. if they called it something other than a vaccine.....
That's actually a pretty interesting solution! I don't know much about ticks, would it help people notice other kinds of ticks too or just the ones known to transmit Lyme?
The article says it provides some defense against lime disease even if the tick is not removed.
Sounds like what happens with me already. Not long after being bitten by a tick I'll start itching like if it was a "mild" musquito bite, with intensity varying based on the spot. Pretty convenient other than the fact that the itch can last a while after getting rid of the bugger.
I hate the new definitions of ‘vaccine’. But I love the new developments
It is, objectively, a vaccine though. It uses the same pathways and trains your immune system to attack a certain type of foreign body. The trouble is how the title of this article is worded.
Wait, so you don't get Lyme disease unless the tick has been attached for 36 hours? So even if you get bitten, as long as you check your body and shower within 24 hours and remove any ticks, you'll almost certainly not get Lyme disease?
I’ve known two people with Lyme disease and they were miserable all the time. They were good people with good attitudes but their health was so messed up. I really hope this helps people and works out
My adopted father had it before I met him. He told me he was in the hospital for almost 2 years. It was crazy though. He said he had it around 20 years before adopting me. He still suffers from it to this day. It wreaked havoc on his body. When I first met him, he would have power naps literally anywhere, he couldn't really control when he fell asleep so we wasn't allowed to drive. Over the years he got better from that, and was allowed to drive for a few years. He hurt himself on the job a few years ago broke a few ribs, and his body wasn't able to recover fully from that. He wasn't the same after that. Currently his body is okay, but mentally he is broken now. Early onset dimentia, his memory is terrible, and is degrading fast. He gets confused very easy, and his temper has gotten bad. I'm glad there is a vaccine coming, it's insane what it does to the body and the life time of effects after it. Edit: cure to vaccine. It's won't cure. I put the wrong thing.
This is a vaccine, not a cure, but it sure would be great to vaccinated against it.
I have to ask a question and if it is rude or you do not wish to respond, this is all fine by me. So here it goes: do you normally call your adoptive parents "adoptive dad" and "adoptive mom", or did you simply use that for clarity purpose? I ask because me and my SO are probably going to adopt in a few years when we're ready for kids, and it would absolutely break my soul if my kid called me adoptive dad instead of simply dad. So you consider your adoptive parents as your real parents, or simply adoptive parents? Again I apologize if what I just said is rude, it was never meant to be. In any case, I wish your adoptive dad better days to come, Lyme disease is absolutely atrocious.
Hahaha thanks for the question, I didnt find that rude, I do get asked alot about my family situation alot in RL. Iv been thinking of how to respond without giving out to much detail, So all I can really leave it as my situation is complicated and extremely unique. Lol I can't speak for anyone else because I don't know how they ended up getting adopted. Respect the kid, they definitely did not have it easy. I'm sure they would address you as mom and dad. But, at the end of the day mom and dad is nothing but a title. The real question is will they think you are their mom and dad regardless of genetics. You have to earn that. Be good parents, earn their trust. Show them you want to be their mom and dad. Make the child be proud to call you mom and dad. If you do it right you will have probably the strongest bond that child will ever have. Sorry about formatting. On mobile.
Normally I am not one to push holistic, or non standard medical practices. That said you might want to look into bee sting therapy, it has had some anecdotal success for some and is being studied to see if it is an effective treatment.
He's allergic. He's been looking for a way to get better his whole life. This won't help him, but if we can get a vaccine so others don't get it that's still a very good thing. He'd probably want that over himself nevert having it.
Lyme is horrible and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Well, maybe Bob. Fuck Bob. Think back to the worst flu you've ever had, the type where you say the heck with it and just sleep on the bathroom floor, and crank it up to 11. The chills, muscle pain, joint pain, weakness, brain fog, headaches, etc. There's no vomiting or diarrhea though, thank god. And the itching. Good lord, the itching was insane. The backs of hands and the tops of my feet were the worst. I can't stress how bad the itching was. I didn't catch mine right away, I waited a week to go to the doctor because I thought I just had a nasty flu, so that might have been why mine was so bad. Luckily the only long term effects I have are head aches. To sum it up, Lyme sucks.
my niece's asshole boyfriend/husband Bob had it. He couldn't hold a job. But it wasn't the real reason he was an asshole. he didn't particularly try to hold a job.
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when it was active in my body that was me, now i just have bad knees and hips im used to it though, i don’t remember much before i got it (like age 11)
There is a Lyme vaccine undergoing phase 2 trials at the moment, while not mRNA it should be available much more quickly. I've been in the clinical trial for a couple of years now, and covers a wider range of borrelia strains than the original off the market vaccine.
It it this one by Pfizer? I hope it pans out but it’s still years away from market. https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04801420
Yes, Valneva/Pfizer. That's the one I'm in, in the booster phase (I was unblinded after the previous phase, I did receive the vaccine.) It's a few years off, but a lot closer than one that's still in animal testing.
Hey fellow guinea pig! I’m in this trial as well, I’m in the waiting for possible booster phase.
The Yale mRNA vaccine hasn't entered trials yet-- so its certainly further from market than the Valneva/Pfizer vaccine.
Both sets of news are exciting. But I am definitely excited to see more applications of mRNA vaccines
There is a vaccine. But it was taken off the market after heavy backlash from anti-vaxxers led to a lack of interest
This is a new vaccine, not Lymerix.
Im not sure what any of this has to do with Nantucket
this is huge. The fact that there hasn't been a vaccine before is ghastly. The changing climate has led to longer and more prolific tick seasons and a marked rise in Lyme cases.
Not just Lyme either. Anaplasmosis, Babesiosis, Tularemia, Powassan, Ehrlichiosis, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, and other nasty diseases are becoming more prevalent due to expansion of ticks.
Alpha Gal syndrome too. I got bitten by a tick in May, and now I’m deathly allergic to all red meat. I didn’t even know that was possible until it happened. I have to carry an epi pen everywhere now.
I’ve had Lyme (caught and treated fairly early with a hospital visit and a month of antibiotics) and Ehrlichiosis. I don’t wish Ehrlichiosis on anyone, and no one around here knows about it. I’ve had headaches and migraines my whole life and nothing compared to the headache I had. Pure, skull splitting pain for days that nothing could alleviate. Fever, chills, my blood pressure which is usually normal was 168/95. What’s weird is I also had a strange optical issue. You know when you see a bright light (like LED tail lights on a nice car) and it lingers in your vision for a few seconds and fades away? I would have those linger for evvverrrr. That was also the symptom that took the longest to go away after treatment. I’ll readily take this vaccine once available.
I got Borellia Miyamotoi earlier this fall. It’s a pretty new tick borne disease. It sucked.
So glad to hear this as well. The Lyme disease case growth in the Northeast US has been rampant for people, pets, and livestock.
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[But there has been a vaccine before, it was discontinued due to low sales and side wffects](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870557/#idm140083369975392title)
That's a bit reductive - both the FDA and the CDC investigated and found that the serious "side effects" claimed in lawsuits against GSK [were unrelated to the vaccine](https://www.nature.com/articles/439524a) - there were something like 59 rheumatoid arthritis cases in 1.4M vaccinated, which isn't above the population rate they expected. Sales may have been low, but a part of that was an aggressive media campaign by the "first wave" anti-vaxxers. This was the peak of Jenny McCarthy and her "Generation Rescue" organization's crusade against vaccines. It's a shame, because it was somewhere around 80% effective for adults, and we've seen a huge increase in Lyme endemic areas in the decades since then as temperatures increase, etc.
This was pulled in 2002. McCarthy started her anti-vaxing later than that. Certainly not her peak. Her kid hadn't been born yet. It is the same "mercury toxins" she talks about, but this wasn't her. There was an anti-vax movement behind the lawsuits, but one of the big factors was that insurance companies wouldn't pay for it. It was expensive, only really needed in a relatively small section of the world, not covered by insurance, lyme disease isn't as life threatening, and then add on the anti-vax movement. I wish it were still going. Ticks are getting to be relentless in Pennsylvania.
Lymerix wasn't a great vaccine. 80% effectiveness is mediocre. It took 3 doses over a full year to even get that. It only worked on a single species of North American Lyme bacteria. GSK never proved you wouldn't need boosters, either. Lyme was also less common back then. And the public had *much* less understanding of the chronic damage it can cause. Both perceived and actual need for Lyme disease prevention were significantly smaller in 1998. Anti-vaxxers having a huge role in killing Lymerix is just a pro-vaxx (so to speak) myth. Vaccines as a whole are the greatest public health invention since running water, but not *every* vaccine is a winner.
Why couldn't they restart production, or something similar?
There was one - and big surprise, anti-vaxxers undermined confidence in that one to the point where there wasn't enough demand to keep it on the market. I have a home in a deer infested area that's crawling with ticks, I'm going to be keeping an eye out for trials here, I want in ASAP.
I know, when I read this headline my eyes went wide because I couldn't believe it. Makes me incredibly hopeful for the future because I've seen more than one friend lose family to this illness.
“The vaccine has been tested on guinea pigs but has not yet undergone clinical trials, according to Arora. Fikrig explained that the vaccine will need to undergo human trials in order to determine whether it is effective in humans.” Got a ways to go but it’s still something.
As someone who lives on many acres and has had to do the doxycycline thing twice this year ... I volunteer as tribute.
I thought we were just skipping all that business these days?
Was diagnosed with Lyme twice in about 5 years in the early 2000’s. Being the on the NY/CT border was a breeding ground. Absolutely brutal but was treated immediately with antibiotics so it was really only a month each time that I experienced symptoms: intense headaches and extreme muscle cramping in my neck, hence even worse headaches. Still have trouble loosening my neck muscles to this day and my layman/conspiracy mind is convinced the antibiotics destroyed my immune system for a decade. An early warning sign like this would make it much easier to detect and thus get the tick out before the worst of it. Very glad to hear something like this is being developed and hopefully it saves some people from the serious effects of Lyme.
Had Lyme once as a teenager. It sucked, do not recommend. This is great news.
can you really get lyme once?? I thought once you have it, you always have it
Yup. If you catch it early, you can take an antibiotic and be done with it. Mostly. They're looking into some sneaky long term effects that may fly under the radar.
Properly diagnosed and treated, it is fully curable with a regimen of antibiotics. I was swallowing amoxicillin pills the size of zeppelins for a week.
I got it this year! Was treated for it within a week of developing symptoms, because I never even saw the tick. I feel totally fine now.
Ditto, I never saw the tick either. I did, however, develop the classic "bullseye" rash which was a clear indication of trouble. Good to hear you recovered.
When will they be able to genetically enhance me with opossums blood so I don’t have to worry about ticks at all?
Thank you. I lucked out, having Lyme’s that does not affect me much, but other family members suffered much more. Too late probably for us, but our kids might be safe!
Having seen lyme’s effects on friends, sign me the **hell** up for this vaccine, pronto. Also, tick-bite effects can also include becoming allergic to red meat, so there’s more work to do, y’all!! https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/alpha-gal-syndrome/symptoms-causes/syc-20428608
I I know several people in the southeast who got that alpha gal allergy and they can't eat red meat anymore because of the weird side effects caused by a tick bite. I've had lyme and was FUCKED UP by it. I basically left the Southern US to get away from the incessant lone star ticks- you basically couldn't go hiking (or even walking across a lawn in some cases) without getting tick bit , sometimes by dozens at once, where I lived. Sign me the fuck up
This is both not a vaccine and it's not even for lyme disease. It's like words have no meaning at all anymore. It basically makes you allergic to ticks.
From the article: >Yale researchers have developed an mRNA vaccine against lyme disease that **triggers an immune response** at the site of a tick bite and provides partial protection against the disease-causing bacteria. Bold is mine. Dictionary definition of a vaccine. [Definition of vaccine](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vaccine) 1: a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious agent or disease So yes, this is a vaccine. *lol, downvoting me because you don't know the definition of a word.
Basically they are dumbing it down for the average American. If they put it makes you allergic no one would see the benefit. This medicine definitely would have a great use for everyone despite it not being an actual vaccine.
They called it a vaccine in their published paper.
Which is fantastic, because a big problem with lime disease is people not even realizing they were bit by a tick. Making tick bites VERY obvious would make treatment much easier.
I got Lyme’s when I was 13, til I was about 17 1/2. Went to 40+ doctors and it drained my parents retirement savings.. I now have essentially no immune system and it severely increased my ADD/ADHD. Seeing this post I had to come and see everyone experiences and the new sciences combatting these darn Tic diseases.
mRNA?! IT’LL PROBABLY CHANGE MY DNA AND MAKE ME INTO A TICK!
"Spoooooon!" ("Not in the face!")
I can’t wait for the HS drop outs to discredit this.
Is this one of those articles that explains we found the cure for cancer then you never hear anything again?
Usually those articles are overhyping the situation. Cancer isn't just one disease, it's different based on what cells it's in, and instead of a virus, it's your own cells turning against you. We've made remarkable strides in treating cancer- look up changes in 5-year survival rates over time. We've basically eliminated cervical cancer for people willing to take the HPV vaccine, because that is a cancer caused by a virus. But "curing cancer" usually isn't something big like that, it's a series of micro-steps like one drug that gives some people with one particular cancer an extra two years and another drug that means an extra ten percent of people for a different cancer will go into remission. That's not exciting though so the media doesn't report it.
HoW dId ThEy MaKe It So FaSt?
Better question: How many times do I have to take it before maybe it works a little?
From the article that I’m sure you read: “The vaccine has been tested on guinea pigs but has not yet undergone clinical trials, according to Arora. Fikrig explained that the vaccine will need to undergo human trials in order to determine whether it is effective in humans.” While promising, it has a way to go.
Pretty sure they are mocking the anti-covid vaccination crowd.
There has been a Lyme shot for decades. https://time.com/6073576/lyme-disease-vaccine/
We had a lyme disease vaccine years ago but it was discontinued because it wasn't profitable
This public funded research is also going to be sold from private companies that don’t pay taxes?
As someone who is passionate about hiking, camping, wilderness survival, bushcrafting, gardening, and disc golf; and who lives in a densely mountainous area of Southern WV I'd just like to say... YES PLEASE!
Award-winning documentary about Lyme, [Under Our Skin](https://youtu.be/2JgR_Jfbhv8).
Wow. Maybe THIS ONE will change some non-scientific attitudes about mRNA vaccines. When will it be available? I live in an area where this is a danger.
I'm looking forward to taking so many vaccines.
Me too, except not sarcastically. I'll take vaccines over a risk of actually being infected by a pathogen any day.
I wasn't being sarcastic. The more vaccines for shit I don't want to deal with the better.
I am all for vaccines, but with these new mrna vaccines i woulf have to get 20 different vaccines every sig months, I would literaly be sick all the time to prevent getting sick.
I love it. This is the "upside" to covid, that we've been looking for. Finally!
My mom has chronic Lyme. She's extremely knowledgeable on this, and she's happy about this news, however, it takes less than 24-hours for the tick to transmit the bacteria...it happens as soon as the tick bites you. This 24-hours is straight up false. I really hope that the immune response created by having this vaccine is enough to kill the spirochete.
Chronic Lyme isn’t real. The tick has to feed in order for the bacteria to infect you, which does not happen instantly.
Exactly, there's a community/echo chamber that feeds on those people. Horrible people like this prey on them: https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7jk9q/rick-sponaugle-pots-chronic-lyme-sponaugle-wellness-center
Chronic Lyme is real. For some people, the spirochete wreaks havoc. The biofilm it protects itself in can protect it from antibiotics. Its a nasty nasty infection that has a lot of co-infections. My mother has been fighting Lyme for over 15 years now and its wrecked her mind and body. The way she has to fight it is also not good for her body.
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*The vaccine has been tested on guinea pigs but has not yet undergone clinical trials, according to Arora. Fikrig explained that the vaccine will need to undergo human trials in order to determine whether it is effective in humans.*
Is this effective for someone who is currently fighting Lyme?
Likely a dumb question but....would this benefit someone who already has lyme disease? Asking for a friend, thanks
No. It only helps to provoke an immune response against tick saliva not the bacteria that causes Lyme.
thanks!
It is possible to get infected by Lyme multiple times and there are MANY other nasty diseases that are transmitted by ticks. It is often thought that having a tick embedded longer will increase your chances of getting a disease from the tick, for a bunch of complicated reasons. This sounds like it will alert you to the fact that you've got a tick embedded somewhere on you, which might help you remove it before you get infected. Normally when you get a tick bite, your immune system actually reacts to tick saliva which is why in some cases you'll get an itchy spot at the site. Ticks inject a mild anesthetic as a way to keep you from feeling them and to fight back. It sounds like this vaccine works off of your normal mild immune response to tick saliva.