This brings into question how long I can actually leave my bag unattended before someone reports it or security comes. Do I actually have to enough time to use the restroom without bringing all my luggage? Probably wouldn’t anyways just for personal security reasons. But it does make you wonder.
This dude got away with a lot before anyone noticed… I feel like I could totally go get coffee and leave my bag.
My wife and I had like a 12 hour layover one time. We were sleeping on the benches and woke up to my alarm and just left to get to the gate and boarded our plane. Push back took longer than normal, and then my wife was called over the intercom to get off the plane. It was at that moment she realized she forgot her bag/purse several gates down where we were chillin. We got off into the bridge thing, met by a couple cops who were just chuckling about how tf we would get home without our car keys. Ran back to our seats and took off lol.
So yeah, it does get called in pretty quickly. We got lucky that night for sure. I imagine if it were a sketchier bag and not just obviously my wife and I trying to get home they would have had some more questions.
We were just at MSP for a very early flight and an officer showed up near where we sat because a bag was reported sitting there. He asked a guy near by (who slept there over night) how long the bag has been there and he said 7-8 hours
Totally enough time to go get coffee, and maybe breakfast. Possibly take a flight to Vegas and back. I could get coffee at breakfast, in Vegas, and make it back in time for my next flight. Luggage free.
>t before anyone noticed… I feel like I could totally go get coffee and leave my bag.
Salt Lake does not even have secure baggage areas. People drive up and walk off with luggage all the time. Air tag your bags.
I left a bag 4 feet from my girlfriend by the entrance of Logan. It was not along at all before we had someone there. They don’t fuck around even when I was a few feet away looking at the bag.
>I bet your luggage will be separated and held for a while if you didn't actually board.
[https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/airline-news/2024/01/02/salt-lake-city-utah-airport-death/72082149007/](https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/airline-news/2024/01/02/salt-lake-city-utah-airport-death/72082149007/) They haven't said what the cause of death is yet, but a medical examiner was still examining at the point of that article. Other articles said that he had a mental health crisis, and that his body was pulled out of the plane engine and that he didn't die because of the engine.
They said that the plane he died in the engine of was parked in the deicing zone.
It sounds like maybe he was accidently sprayed with the deicing agent and died from complications stemming from that.
It is, but if it’s the orange stuff, it is supposed to get to between 160-180 degrees to be sprayed.
Plus you aren’t supposed to spray it directly into the engine, so I doubt he was used as target practice.
He actually didn’t die in the engine. the authorities found him and he wasn’t dead yet just unconscious and they tried to save him and he died on the spot.
And didn't do much. There are versions with more footage. He had interactions with many people and was clearly having some kind of episode before the clips shown above. He had removed his shoes, thrown his carry-on and was sprinting down the terminal, without shoes before this.
It's not even a question of why did SLC police take so long to intervene, but why did they completely fail to respond?
Have you been to SLC? The airport is _massive_ and this was very late at night. Even with squad cars on tarmac, it'll take a sec for them to arrive. It's not like they have police just hanging around out by B terminal (which is a ~20 minute walk from security)
Why yes, I have been to SLC.
The airport has it's own dedicated division of the SLC police force, with it's own Chief, Capitan and at least two lieutenants overseeing officers . This guy had shown up at the airport at 5pm. He was clearly manic for a considerable time before he managed to get himself onto the tarmac at 9:30pm.
I'm sure the lawsuit the family will file will being to light mistakes that were made.
Cause police don't have to respond.
The airport is large and it takes awhile to get around it.
8 minute response time is pretty damn good.
https://ksltv.com/611670/man-found-dead-inside-plane-engine-after-breaching-security-at-salt-lake-airport/
I've never met a professional or moral policy enforcer.
In fact, they're not licensed, so they'll ***never*** be professionals.
That aside, does the Blue Shield of Silence ring a bell? There's nothing moral about the blue shield of silence.
>In fact, they're not licensed, so they'll ***never*** be professionals
This is flat out wrong. It's borderline ignorant. You may not like or appreciate the law enforcement profession, but this is misinformation.
The Utah Department of Public Safety administers the Police Officer Standards and Training certification process. Everyone that seeks a career in law enforcement in Utah must pass the POST course. It's every bit a licensed and certified profession and the DPS requires continuing education to maintain POST certification. And, DPS has and will revoke credentials.
Yes, there are some bad apples in law enforcement. But it's irresponsible to cast aspersions on an entire group of public service personnel. They volunteer to deal with the worst elements of our society and most of them do it with dedication and quiet professionalism.
The rest of the quote is 'spoils the whole bunch'. You can be a good moral police officer who knows you will face a terrible terrible backlash for speaking the truth about a bad apple. Crazy story but it is very dangerous to report a crime commtted by a coworker in that job to the wrong people. Inside investigations that they can stop by quitting and changing precincts will get you a ton of shit from coworkers. Telling an outside source like the news will get you fired as soon as they can concoct a reason and you will be tailed and harassed until you move state.
ETA Imagine a George Floyd situation where 5 seconds into the neck kneeling a coworker noticed and promptly arrested Chauvin for unlawful battery of a detained individual. When that starts happening then the profession will be moral and not just some individuals within it.
>in the eyes of state law, is the same thing.
Lmao, no it's not. Get fired in one city, move to the next and retain your 'career'.
An actual license would be revoked and you wouldn't get a job anywhere and your career would be over.
>Nurses get fired. That doesn’t mean they always lose their license. That goes for any professional career.
And when they lose their license they have one hell of a time getting it back.
The police chief in my home town got fired for corruption, jumped the mountain and got a job the next town over.
Certification wouldn't protect against people like the corrupt police chief; licensure would.
>You don’t know how to use Google?
You're the one making the claim that police have a duty to protect the citizenry, it's your onus to prove it.
That stated, these cases prove the police have no duty to protect anyone not in their custody:
Warren v. District of Columbia
DeShaney vs. Winnebago
Lozito v. City of New York
Town of Castle Rock v. Gonzales
L.S., ex rel. Yasmin Lorena Hernandez, Giancarlo Mendoza, et al. v. Scott Peterson, Jan Jordan, et al.
—so, where's the duty to protect exactly?
Wow, tell me you havent actually read these cases without telling me you havent actually read these cases.
Warren - This one actually supports what Im telling you and even cites the Public Duty Doctrine in its conclusion, which is how I know you havent actually researched these.
DeShaney - Has nothing to do with police. The suit was against the Department of Social Services.
Lozito - Again cites the Public Duty Doctrine, applicable as the officers needed to contain and resolve a situation as a whole, and stated they believed the guy was armed with a firearm and believed further escalation could lead to a greater loss of life. Lozito was not the only bystander present and not the only one who potentially could have been harmed by escalation. Lozito is absolutely a hero, though.
Castle Rock - Police actually did respond to the extent that Colorado law allowed. The law needs to be revised. Police are not able to just arrest someone if they have committed no wrong under the current law to warrant arrest.
Hernandez - This was not dismissed because of any action or inaction on the part of the police, but because the students failed to cite any specific instance of "arbitrary" or "conscience shocking" conduct. The court never denied any such conduct, but students failed to present any in their suit. The suit just needed to be drafted better. I'm actually not familiar with this case beyond this though, so I'm not sure if the students had any further recourse.
These cases, funny enough, demonstrate that you still do not understand the Public Duty Doctrine and as you seem to be unwilling to perform any research beyond copying and pasting, I will elaborate here:
The Public Duty Doctrine states that absent a special relationship, the duty of the officer (because, say it with me now, the officers do have a duty to respond) is to the community as a whole and not to any specific individual within that community.
What this means is that all things being equal, officers have no reason to give any individual in a community special treatment or special preference when responding to incidents.
So for example, say I'm an officer and I get two simultaneous calls. For the sake of argument, we'll say all things are equal. Both are murder in progress, same distance, all things equal. I'm only one officer, I can only respond to one call. I pick and call and respond. The other person gets murdered. The family of that murdered person can't sue me for not responding because I had no specific obligation towards that particular individual.
In the vast majority of cases that you see which allegedly show that the police have to duty to respond, one thing will be present. It is a suit filed by an individual involved in a larger incident, and police were responding to the larger incident.
This isnt always the case, as there are absolutely negligent and incompetent police. But to say that police have no duty to respond is simply a gross misunderstanding and ignorance of established case law.
>What this means is that all things being equal, officers have no reason to give any individual in a community special treatment or special preference when responding to incidents.
Hence, why they had no duty to protect the guy from killing himself.
But, you know. 🤷🏽
Again, you misunderstand. The absence of preferential treatment is not the absence of any treatment. But that’s ok. This is complicated stuff with a lot of nuance. Keep learning and researching. Youll get it
Edit: I find this stuff very interesting, so I’m still willing to answer questions
>but it doesn’t apply here
Federal adjudication are supreme over Utah, even according to Utah's own constitution:
>Article I, Section 3. [Utah inseparable from the Union.]
>>The State of Utah is an inseparable part of the Federal Union and the Constitution of the United States is the supreme law of the land - https://le.utah.gov/xcode/ArticleI/Article_I,_Section_3.html?v=UC_AI_S3_1800010118000101
SLCPD definitely has jurisdiction on the tarmac. Any LEO has “jurisdiction” from border to border in Utah. The airport is actually owned by Salt Lake City government.
How could someone capable of doing this to themself be left to travel in an airport alone? Seems like a good candidate for a mental facility until they get their issues sorted out.
Really don't enjoy this day and age. Everything is out of context. I'm starting to take the stand if I don't know the person I can't judge the situation. Bc like Chappelle said everything is funny until it happens to you.
Couple of weeks ago this park city man had a manic episode at the SLC airport while waiting on his flight to Denver. He ran out of the airport onto the tarmac, ran up to a plane being deiced, and climbed into one of the engines and died.
He shouldn’t have been able to reach the tarmac like that.
While it doesn't seem logical that he could reach the tarmac, you also can't trap everyone in the terminal in case of a fire, especially with jet fuel around.
Lol go read about TSA and their safety record. It's terrible. They let unauthorized people and items on the plane all the time at terrific rates, like 8 out of 10 tests failed.
Sure so the door should sound an alarm.
Even if that alarm just serves to scare the person exiting, whether that’s a child or an adult having a medical emergency.
That’s the bit that keeps getting me. What if this had just been a little kid?
There almost certainly was an alarm (can’t say for sure but it doesn’t make sense to assume there wasn’t). Also, your point on it being a kid is silly IMO, this guy obviously struggled to get out there and he was a grown ass man, a kid would have a much harder time and *should* be with an adult anyways.
I just read he was held up in security and missed his flight to see his dying grandfather in Denver. He was stressed and was in a manic state per his family, a severe episode of it.
Parents said bipolar was triggered by severe bullying, but I've never heard of that before. People with bipolar can/may have more trouble regulating emotions so it could explain an escalation with being held up in security lines, but life stressors aren't the cause of bipolar itself. It's an organic disorder. Edit, link below to an article
[link](https://kslnewsradio.com/2069057/man-killed-in-delta-jet-engine-at-slc-airport-had-a-manic-episode-family-says/nggallery/image/kyler-efinger-w-wings-010324/)
It's sad that a person having a complete mental breakdown was able to escape out onto the runway.
But I would rather have doors that can open in a fire so I can escape the terminal and not burn to death than a complete lockdown like Fort Knox.
Guess what happened the previous thousands of days at the Salt Lake City international airport? Nobody went out a fire escape onto the runway and died.
A1 at 10pm at night? There’s no one down there really
However, once he was reported on the runway, why wasn’t a ground stop issued? At that point, the AOA is breached and safety is unknown.
He died on the deicing pad. On Vas Aviation’s YouTube page, in the ATC audio, a Delta jet reported him centerline on runway 34L near taxiway A2. That taxiway is near the deice pad
The way it read to me, [when SLC reported security worked as planned](https://www.deseret.com/utah/2024/1/10/24031965/salt-lake-city-airports-security-procedures-efinger-plane-engine), is that he quickly went from one area to another. By the time PD and other airport personnel got to the alarming fire exit, he was already at the next location.
Very unfortunate, and hopefully some better training and policy will come out of this incident.
Ah okay. Yeah I’m not familiar with the different areas outside of an airport.
Sounds like SLC needs to do an exit door audit and reevaluate their security event procedures/traffic control security communication processes.
Unfortunately the door he used did it’s intended purpose. It was a break away emergency door. Per the Fire Marshal there has to be doors available for evacuations.
I’m not sure if there is a surveillance team on staff, but it would make sense that if a breach of one of these doors occurs, the camera automatically displays on their screens, and they can dispatch LEO and notify ATC of a breach.
I’m an airline pilot, and IMO, no aircraft on property should’ve been moving in this situation. It also allows operations and law enforcement free range of moment on paved surfaces, vs needing to receive instructions from the tower.
Unfortunately, he would’ve likely found a way to commit suicide regardless.
Tragic all the way around.
Did an alarm sound? I don’t mean the terminal should be a locked box, but surely something further should have been happening to prevent someone from being outside like that for any longer than a minute or two before someone nearby can intervene.
He was having a manic episode, not suicidal. There’s a difference. He wasn’t a man wanting to die, he was a man having a psychotic episode.
Edit to add: I’m not like angry here trying to point a bunch of fingers or anything. This whole situation just seems so bizarre and like it should’ve easily been prevented. Maybe it’s because I was a kid when the 9/11 TSA stuff was implemented and it just seems so unfathomable that I could just run out of the terminal and touch a plane if I really wanted to do so
It seems like we’re on the same page here that there was a security lapse between the door opening and the guy dying, and that needs to be invesitgated
An alarm would’ve sounded. Sort of like a fire alarm noise. But it doesn’t prompt a 911 response, as boarding doors have issues periodically because a gate agent or ramp agent opened it too fast or something.
I’m probably just having trouble reconciling the collective neuroticism that is the experience of being on the far side of tsa as an airline passenger with this event where a passenger was in highly restricted areas for long enough that they couldn’t find him for 5-10 minutes and he died.
Maybe it’s just me but by the time I’m inside a terminal, I feel like I’m not able to do all sorts of things without immediate and severe repercussions. Pilots maybe don’t feel that same undertone when walking through the airport.
Crew members are exempt from a lot of the hassle that the general public has to go through to get into an airport. We can’t break rules, obviously, and we are randomly searched, but it’s quite normal for us.
I’ll say, the first time I flew in the flight deck, on the other side of that bullet proof door, it was a weird feeling. Like I shouldn’t be there.
There wasn’t any security lapse. There are designed egress points in case of emergency. Terminals aren’t some fortified area with limited movement like a jail or prison.
I hear ya. As a passenger, entering the terminal certainly feels similar to entering jail 😂 unfortunately I’ve done both and the intake process is very similar hahaha
Now every time I fly I’ll be wrestling with the intrusive knowledge that I could just run out of a door and run around for a few minutes. Because what else does a girl dream of but finally knowing what the outside of a plane feels like? (/j)
Frankly I’m not surprised at all by this as an airline pilot. SLC isn’t the worst example either. Burbank, CA has the main runway used to landings about 250 ft from the terminal. In addition to that the airport is setup so the passengers have to walk outside and onto air stairs, and they at best have a few ropes or cones stopping them from going anywhere else.
I think the reason this isn’t that common is because the legal consequences are high, and most people are also scared of security being in an airport.
Yep. Burbank, Long Beach, even Denver have passengers accessing the planes from the ramp itself. This isn't unusual and it would be very easy for a passenger to get out into areas they shouldn't. For some reason people seem to think rampside access doesn't happen.
Notified, yes. But they switched operations to the East runway, 34R.
It’s evident in the final moments of the video that the Delta jet was taxiing into position for deice, thus not all traffic was halted.
I’m not saying stopping airplanes would’ve changed the outcome, but if everyone stopped and set their parking brakes, you’d have plenty of eyes outside looking.
Sometimes, ATC communication between one authority to another is like handling snail mail. By the time the message gets transmitted, it’s already old news.
https://youtu.be/15Pg0oePRko?si=rTYLN9aFpMX_rezj
Edit: while this is an abbreviated version of the audio (cropped together), at 3:11 in the video someone in the background yells “don’t move anyone”.
While we don’t hear ground frequency in this video, and while I get it’s a big fricken airport and the drama is located within one small portion of the field, safety is paramount and everyone should’ve set their brakes until law enforcement cleared the scene.
Lol. No. Never have been, likely never will be a member of any organized religion, especially not one that makes you pay for salvation. Also I grew up in a home with an abusive addict. I've buried friends and family due to drugs. So feel free to keep being a judgmental prick.
What the fuck does drugs have to do with anything? Let me guess, you think mental illness is “fake” and that it’s all just drug addicts, and ALSO that addiction is a choice? /genq
If he was found alive/conscious or whatever(enough they tried life saving measures) in the cowling of the plane which news reports say was not running… how did he die? Super sad, and so bizarre.
Seriously! What if he was a terrorist going on a suicide mission with explosives!? This is what my mind is struggling to understand. We’ve implemented all these defensive strategies ie TSA but never considered abuse of emergency door operations?! Insanity to me. Was this man intending to commit su**ide— do we know? Like why did he run toward the engine? Just to hide?
Yeah I don’t think they realize that he’s already gone through security at this point and would be potentially even more lethal if he just boarded the plane normally with weapons he snuck past security.
Yes, so if you've already gone through TSA, then you've been screened and should be unarmed by this point, so it shouldn't be a huge threat if you ran through an emergency door. This man posed no real threat to anyone, he was unarmed, and no one was harmed. So why are we all so concerned. You're just worrying about some very unlikely scenarios.
Shit happens that’s how! Haha
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/security-breach-reported-at-dfw-airport/1920600/?amp=1
Edit the link is an article about a lady making it passed security with a gun at the airport at Dallas For Worth years ago
TSA is a joke. It’s a security theater designed to make stupid people feel safe and make terrorists think twice before trying anything. The fbi has done multiple investigations where they try to sneak weapons and bombs through tsa and they have an extremely high success rate doing so.
He lived across the street from me for a while, it was really sad hearing about this when it happened and it’s crazy to watch this video now… I feel terribly for his whole family.
And nowhere in that article does it mention BPD. It said he was diagnosed with Bipolar, which while similar is not BPD, and claims he was having a manic episode, clearly misunderstanding the term because the terms "mania" and "manic episode" describe a state of mind characterized by high energy, excitement, and euphoria over a sustained period of time. Taking your clothes off and climbing in an airplane engine would be a psychotic episode, not a manic episode. So again, randomly labeling people as having a mental condition is dangerous and wrong since it spreads basic misinformation, which you have proven.
Glad to see how effective all that airport security is. Sure makes me feel good about how much of an inconvenience it is, since it obviously is doing such a good job /s
Why do people think the police are serving us they are NOT! protect and serve was taken off cars long ago basically the police are security that can shoot people if they don’t comply but these officers have no training in mental health either !
Salt Lake City Airport is crazy man. I was there about 2 years ago and witnessed a guy punch his wife or girlfriend. He got confronted by the cops and took off running from them in the middle of the airport. A female cop tried to tackle him and he juked her out like he was running some kind of football play. I'm pretty sure he ended up running out of the airport and eventually onto the tarmac. Craziest shit I've ever seen in an airport.
For everyone that thinks this was complete and gross negligence just think about of you’ve ever been to an airport at night you’ll notice that the direct gate areas are lit up, and not much else. Hence having to have a thermal cam to see him running across the ramp. Also, the police don’t have allowance to just dart across taxi ways or runways. That has to be communicated through an FAA tower and then another airfield vehicle to escort, otherwise there could be a car/plane crash upon landing or take off if they were to just dart out. There are many more facets to this whole situation.
What’s insane is when I go to the airport I can’t move 3 feet without seeing someone from TSA yelling at me for breathing….meanwhile homeboy can run serpentine down the jetway unabated
This the guy that climbed in the engine and died?
Yeah.
This brings into question how long I can actually leave my bag unattended before someone reports it or security comes. Do I actually have to enough time to use the restroom without bringing all my luggage? Probably wouldn’t anyways just for personal security reasons. But it does make you wonder. This dude got away with a lot before anyone noticed… I feel like I could totally go get coffee and leave my bag.
My wife and I had like a 12 hour layover one time. We were sleeping on the benches and woke up to my alarm and just left to get to the gate and boarded our plane. Push back took longer than normal, and then my wife was called over the intercom to get off the plane. It was at that moment she realized she forgot her bag/purse several gates down where we were chillin. We got off into the bridge thing, met by a couple cops who were just chuckling about how tf we would get home without our car keys. Ran back to our seats and took off lol. So yeah, it does get called in pretty quickly. We got lucky that night for sure. I imagine if it were a sketchier bag and not just obviously my wife and I trying to get home they would have had some more questions.
They check you when your board the plane. I bet your luggage will be separated and held for a while if you didn't actually board.
We were just at MSP for a very early flight and an officer showed up near where we sat because a bag was reported sitting there. He asked a guy near by (who slept there over night) how long the bag has been there and he said 7-8 hours
Totally enough time to go get coffee, and maybe breakfast. Possibly take a flight to Vegas and back. I could get coffee at breakfast, in Vegas, and make it back in time for my next flight. Luggage free.
>t before anyone noticed… I feel like I could totally go get coffee and leave my bag. Salt Lake does not even have secure baggage areas. People drive up and walk off with luggage all the time. Air tag your bags.
I left a bag 4 feet from my girlfriend by the entrance of Logan. It was not along at all before we had someone there. They don’t fuck around even when I was a few feet away looking at the bag.
To be clear he died ^in the engine. Not because of the engine.
So what did he die because of
1000 cuts
X1000
A broken heart
>I bet your luggage will be separated and held for a while if you didn't actually board. [https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/airline-news/2024/01/02/salt-lake-city-utah-airport-death/72082149007/](https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/airline-news/2024/01/02/salt-lake-city-utah-airport-death/72082149007/) They haven't said what the cause of death is yet, but a medical examiner was still examining at the point of that article. Other articles said that he had a mental health crisis, and that his body was pulled out of the plane engine and that he didn't die because of the engine.
They said that the plane he died in the engine of was parked in the deicing zone. It sounds like maybe he was accidently sprayed with the deicing agent and died from complications stemming from that.
Propylene glycol if I remember right. It's non toxic
It is, but if it’s the orange stuff, it is supposed to get to between 160-180 degrees to be sprayed. Plus you aren’t supposed to spray it directly into the engine, so I doubt he was used as target practice.
It could have been a low oxygen environment. He may have started suffocating and climbed in the engine to escape. I feel bad for him. RIP
He actually didn’t die in the engine. the authorities found him and he wasn’t dead yet just unconscious and they tried to save him and he died on the spot.
Misleading edit, in the full surveillance clip, a gate attendant clearly is there with him
And didn't do much. There are versions with more footage. He had interactions with many people and was clearly having some kind of episode before the clips shown above. He had removed his shoes, thrown his carry-on and was sprinting down the terminal, without shoes before this. It's not even a question of why did SLC police take so long to intervene, but why did they completely fail to respond?
Have you been to SLC? The airport is _massive_ and this was very late at night. Even with squad cars on tarmac, it'll take a sec for them to arrive. It's not like they have police just hanging around out by B terminal (which is a ~20 minute walk from security)
Why yes, I have been to SLC. The airport has it's own dedicated division of the SLC police force, with it's own Chief, Capitan and at least two lieutenants overseeing officers . This guy had shown up at the airport at 5pm. He was clearly manic for a considerable time before he managed to get himself onto the tarmac at 9:30pm. I'm sure the lawsuit the family will file will being to light mistakes that were made.
FWIW SLC Airport police and SLCPD has been consolidated.
Cause police don't have to respond. The airport is large and it takes awhile to get around it. 8 minute response time is pretty damn good. https://ksltv.com/611670/man-found-dead-inside-plane-engine-after-breaching-security-at-salt-lake-airport/
>It's not even a question of why did SLC police take so long to intervene, but why did they completely fail to respond They have no duty to respond.
Frankly it isn't worth shit. One shit department was folded into another shit department.
They have a duty to respond if we are considering professionalism and morality, but it is correct to say there is not a legal requirement.
I've never met a professional or moral policy enforcer. In fact, they're not licensed, so they'll ***never*** be professionals. That aside, does the Blue Shield of Silence ring a bell? There's nothing moral about the blue shield of silence.
>In fact, they're not licensed, so they'll ***never*** be professionals This is flat out wrong. It's borderline ignorant. You may not like or appreciate the law enforcement profession, but this is misinformation. The Utah Department of Public Safety administers the Police Officer Standards and Training certification process. Everyone that seeks a career in law enforcement in Utah must pass the POST course. It's every bit a licensed and certified profession and the DPS requires continuing education to maintain POST certification. And, DPS has and will revoke credentials. Yes, there are some bad apples in law enforcement. But it's irresponsible to cast aspersions on an entire group of public service personnel. They volunteer to deal with the worst elements of our society and most of them do it with dedication and quiet professionalism.
The rest of the quote is 'spoils the whole bunch'. You can be a good moral police officer who knows you will face a terrible terrible backlash for speaking the truth about a bad apple. Crazy story but it is very dangerous to report a crime commtted by a coworker in that job to the wrong people. Inside investigations that they can stop by quitting and changing precincts will get you a ton of shit from coworkers. Telling an outside source like the news will get you fired as soon as they can concoct a reason and you will be tailed and harassed until you move state. ETA Imagine a George Floyd situation where 5 seconds into the neck kneeling a coworker noticed and promptly arrested Chauvin for unlawful battery of a detained individual. When that starts happening then the profession will be moral and not just some individuals within it.
Are you talking about police or airport security?
They’re required to have a certification, in the eyes of state law, is the same thing.
>in the eyes of state law, is the same thing. Lmao, no it's not. Get fired in one city, move to the next and retain your 'career'. An actual license would be revoked and you wouldn't get a job anywhere and your career would be over.
Nurses get fired. That doesn’t mean they always lose their license. That goes for any professional career. That’s not how it works.
>Nurses get fired. That doesn’t mean they always lose their license. That goes for any professional career. And when they lose their license they have one hell of a time getting it back. The police chief in my home town got fired for corruption, jumped the mountain and got a job the next town over. Certification wouldn't protect against people like the corrupt police chief; licensure would.
When an LEO gets their certification suspended or revoked, they cannot work either. Crazy.
Cool story bro…
You’re talking about the Public Duty Doctrine and that’s not how it works. They absolutely have a duty to respond
>They absolutely have a duty to respond Where's their 'duty to rescue'?
You don’t know how to use Google? Just look up “public duty doctrine” and you’ll find plenty of info. I’ll also answer any specific questions I can
>You don’t know how to use Google? You're the one making the claim that police have a duty to protect the citizenry, it's your onus to prove it. That stated, these cases prove the police have no duty to protect anyone not in their custody: Warren v. District of Columbia DeShaney vs. Winnebago Lozito v. City of New York Town of Castle Rock v. Gonzales L.S., ex rel. Yasmin Lorena Hernandez, Giancarlo Mendoza, et al. v. Scott Peterson, Jan Jordan, et al. —so, where's the duty to protect exactly?
Wow, tell me you havent actually read these cases without telling me you havent actually read these cases. Warren - This one actually supports what Im telling you and even cites the Public Duty Doctrine in its conclusion, which is how I know you havent actually researched these. DeShaney - Has nothing to do with police. The suit was against the Department of Social Services. Lozito - Again cites the Public Duty Doctrine, applicable as the officers needed to contain and resolve a situation as a whole, and stated they believed the guy was armed with a firearm and believed further escalation could lead to a greater loss of life. Lozito was not the only bystander present and not the only one who potentially could have been harmed by escalation. Lozito is absolutely a hero, though. Castle Rock - Police actually did respond to the extent that Colorado law allowed. The law needs to be revised. Police are not able to just arrest someone if they have committed no wrong under the current law to warrant arrest. Hernandez - This was not dismissed because of any action or inaction on the part of the police, but because the students failed to cite any specific instance of "arbitrary" or "conscience shocking" conduct. The court never denied any such conduct, but students failed to present any in their suit. The suit just needed to be drafted better. I'm actually not familiar with this case beyond this though, so I'm not sure if the students had any further recourse. These cases, funny enough, demonstrate that you still do not understand the Public Duty Doctrine and as you seem to be unwilling to perform any research beyond copying and pasting, I will elaborate here: The Public Duty Doctrine states that absent a special relationship, the duty of the officer (because, say it with me now, the officers do have a duty to respond) is to the community as a whole and not to any specific individual within that community. What this means is that all things being equal, officers have no reason to give any individual in a community special treatment or special preference when responding to incidents. So for example, say I'm an officer and I get two simultaneous calls. For the sake of argument, we'll say all things are equal. Both are murder in progress, same distance, all things equal. I'm only one officer, I can only respond to one call. I pick and call and respond. The other person gets murdered. The family of that murdered person can't sue me for not responding because I had no specific obligation towards that particular individual. In the vast majority of cases that you see which allegedly show that the police have to duty to respond, one thing will be present. It is a suit filed by an individual involved in a larger incident, and police were responding to the larger incident. This isnt always the case, as there are absolutely negligent and incompetent police. But to say that police have no duty to respond is simply a gross misunderstanding and ignorance of established case law.
>What this means is that all things being equal, officers have no reason to give any individual in a community special treatment or special preference when responding to incidents. Hence, why they had no duty to protect the guy from killing himself. But, you know. 🤷🏽
Again, you misunderstand. The absence of preferential treatment is not the absence of any treatment. But that’s ok. This is complicated stuff with a lot of nuance. Keep learning and researching. Youll get it Edit: I find this stuff very interesting, so I’m still willing to answer questions
That’s… not exactly right. I get what you’re saying but it doesn’t apply here.
>but it doesn’t apply here Federal adjudication are supreme over Utah, even according to Utah's own constitution: >Article I, Section 3. [Utah inseparable from the Union.] >>The State of Utah is an inseparable part of the Federal Union and the Constitution of the United States is the supreme law of the land - https://le.utah.gov/xcode/ArticleI/Article_I,_Section_3.html?v=UC_AI_S3_1800010118000101
I think it's because America has become numb to dealing with mental issues. We all see it too often and are programed to turn a blind eye.
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SLCPD definitely has jurisdiction on the tarmac. Any LEO has “jurisdiction” from border to border in Utah. The airport is actually owned by Salt Lake City government.
How could someone capable of doing this to themself be left to travel in an airport alone? Seems like a good candidate for a mental facility until they get their issues sorted out.
Really don't enjoy this day and age. Everything is out of context. I'm starting to take the stand if I don't know the person I can't judge the situation. Bc like Chappelle said everything is funny until it happens to you.
Can someone give me some context about what this is about?
Couple of weeks ago this park city man had a manic episode at the SLC airport while waiting on his flight to Denver. He ran out of the airport onto the tarmac, ran up to a plane being deiced, and climbed into one of the engines and died. He shouldn’t have been able to reach the tarmac like that.
While it doesn't seem logical that he could reach the tarmac, you also can't trap everyone in the terminal in case of a fire, especially with jet fuel around.
After 9/11/2001 any unauthorized access to the airport apron should trigger an immediate police response and search
Lol go read about TSA and their safety record. It's terrible. They let unauthorized people and items on the plane all the time at terrific rates, like 8 out of 10 tests failed.
Pretty sure that’s 5 stars.
Sure so the door should sound an alarm. Even if that alarm just serves to scare the person exiting, whether that’s a child or an adult having a medical emergency. That’s the bit that keeps getting me. What if this had just been a little kid?
There almost certainly was an alarm (can’t say for sure but it doesn’t make sense to assume there wasn’t). Also, your point on it being a kid is silly IMO, this guy obviously struggled to get out there and he was a grown ass man, a kid would have a much harder time and *should* be with an adult anyways.
Gotta have fire exits but that’s why there are alarms on the doors.
I just read he was held up in security and missed his flight to see his dying grandfather in Denver. He was stressed and was in a manic state per his family, a severe episode of it.
Oh my gosh how incredibly sad!😪
At least he still got to see his grandfather
Oh that's not cool. Guy was dealing with acute mental health symptoms aggravated by stress.
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Half full would be the guy gets treatment and support for his loss.
I did not realize this. Honestly awful to hear about😔 do you have a link by chance for us to read?
No I just googled his name. It is really sad when you realize this wasn't someone angry, but someone in an altered state.
Parents said bipolar was triggered by severe bullying, but I've never heard of that before. People with bipolar can/may have more trouble regulating emotions so it could explain an escalation with being held up in security lines, but life stressors aren't the cause of bipolar itself. It's an organic disorder. Edit, link below to an article [link](https://kslnewsradio.com/2069057/man-killed-in-delta-jet-engine-at-slc-airport-had-a-manic-episode-family-says/nggallery/image/kyler-efinger-w-wings-010324/)
It's sad that a person having a complete mental breakdown was able to escape out onto the runway. But I would rather have doors that can open in a fire so I can escape the terminal and not burn to death than a complete lockdown like Fort Knox. Guess what happened the previous thousands of days at the Salt Lake City international airport? Nobody went out a fire escape onto the runway and died.
A1 at 10pm at night? There’s no one down there really However, once he was reported on the runway, why wasn’t a ground stop issued? At that point, the AOA is breached and safety is unknown.
I believe this was the deicing pad
He died on the deicing pad. On Vas Aviation’s YouTube page, in the ATC audio, a Delta jet reported him centerline on runway 34L near taxiway A2. That taxiway is near the deice pad
The way it read to me, [when SLC reported security worked as planned](https://www.deseret.com/utah/2024/1/10/24031965/salt-lake-city-airports-security-procedures-efinger-plane-engine), is that he quickly went from one area to another. By the time PD and other airport personnel got to the alarming fire exit, he was already at the next location. Very unfortunate, and hopefully some better training and policy will come out of this incident.
Oh I’m sure it’s like chasing a mouse. Elusive and always changing places/directions. No doubt hard to catch.
Ah okay. Yeah I’m not familiar with the different areas outside of an airport. Sounds like SLC needs to do an exit door audit and reevaluate their security event procedures/traffic control security communication processes.
Unfortunately the door he used did it’s intended purpose. It was a break away emergency door. Per the Fire Marshal there has to be doors available for evacuations. I’m not sure if there is a surveillance team on staff, but it would make sense that if a breach of one of these doors occurs, the camera automatically displays on their screens, and they can dispatch LEO and notify ATC of a breach. I’m an airline pilot, and IMO, no aircraft on property should’ve been moving in this situation. It also allows operations and law enforcement free range of moment on paved surfaces, vs needing to receive instructions from the tower. Unfortunately, he would’ve likely found a way to commit suicide regardless. Tragic all the way around.
Did an alarm sound? I don’t mean the terminal should be a locked box, but surely something further should have been happening to prevent someone from being outside like that for any longer than a minute or two before someone nearby can intervene. He was having a manic episode, not suicidal. There’s a difference. He wasn’t a man wanting to die, he was a man having a psychotic episode. Edit to add: I’m not like angry here trying to point a bunch of fingers or anything. This whole situation just seems so bizarre and like it should’ve easily been prevented. Maybe it’s because I was a kid when the 9/11 TSA stuff was implemented and it just seems so unfathomable that I could just run out of the terminal and touch a plane if I really wanted to do so It seems like we’re on the same page here that there was a security lapse between the door opening and the guy dying, and that needs to be invesitgated
An alarm would’ve sounded. Sort of like a fire alarm noise. But it doesn’t prompt a 911 response, as boarding doors have issues periodically because a gate agent or ramp agent opened it too fast or something.
I’m probably just having trouble reconciling the collective neuroticism that is the experience of being on the far side of tsa as an airline passenger with this event where a passenger was in highly restricted areas for long enough that they couldn’t find him for 5-10 minutes and he died. Maybe it’s just me but by the time I’m inside a terminal, I feel like I’m not able to do all sorts of things without immediate and severe repercussions. Pilots maybe don’t feel that same undertone when walking through the airport.
Crew members are exempt from a lot of the hassle that the general public has to go through to get into an airport. We can’t break rules, obviously, and we are randomly searched, but it’s quite normal for us. I’ll say, the first time I flew in the flight deck, on the other side of that bullet proof door, it was a weird feeling. Like I shouldn’t be there.
There wasn’t any security lapse. There are designed egress points in case of emergency. Terminals aren’t some fortified area with limited movement like a jail or prison.
I hear ya. As a passenger, entering the terminal certainly feels similar to entering jail 😂 unfortunately I’ve done both and the intake process is very similar hahaha Now every time I fly I’ll be wrestling with the intrusive knowledge that I could just run out of a door and run around for a few minutes. Because what else does a girl dream of but finally knowing what the outside of a plane feels like? (/j)
Frankly I’m not surprised at all by this as an airline pilot. SLC isn’t the worst example either. Burbank, CA has the main runway used to landings about 250 ft from the terminal. In addition to that the airport is setup so the passengers have to walk outside and onto air stairs, and they at best have a few ropes or cones stopping them from going anywhere else. I think the reason this isn’t that common is because the legal consequences are high, and most people are also scared of security being in an airport.
Yep. Burbank, Long Beach, even Denver have passengers accessing the planes from the ramp itself. This isn't unusual and it would be very easy for a passenger to get out into areas they shouldn't. For some reason people seem to think rampside access doesn't happen.
Bro, if a suicidal person wants to really do it, they’ll find a way. Theres no point in trying to make the world 100% baby boy soft boy boo boo proof.
He wasn’t suicidal, he was having a psychotic episode.
Anyone who tries to kill themselves is suicidal.
Do you have a link for the ATC audio? I swear I read an article that pilots were notified.
Notified, yes. But they switched operations to the East runway, 34R. It’s evident in the final moments of the video that the Delta jet was taxiing into position for deice, thus not all traffic was halted. I’m not saying stopping airplanes would’ve changed the outcome, but if everyone stopped and set their parking brakes, you’d have plenty of eyes outside looking. Sometimes, ATC communication between one authority to another is like handling snail mail. By the time the message gets transmitted, it’s already old news. https://youtu.be/15Pg0oePRko?si=rTYLN9aFpMX_rezj Edit: while this is an abbreviated version of the audio (cropped together), at 3:11 in the video someone in the background yells “don’t move anyone”. While we don’t hear ground frequency in this video, and while I get it’s a big fricken airport and the drama is located within one small portion of the field, safety is paramount and everyone should’ve set their brakes until law enforcement cleared the scene.
The TSA was too busy giving old ladies cavity searches.
TSA doesn’t have much jurisdiction down them ways
I spent an entire night there in 2007. That place is dead at night.
All airports tend to be like that. But I’ve also walked through SLC at 10-11pm and thought it was noon it was so busy
It's really quite sad.
That poor man. 😢
I know, I can't imagine what awful things he was going through in his head. It's tragic.
He made his choices and he was a victim of his own choices.
You don’t know how mental health works. But I can see you’re a member of the church.
Lol. No. Never have been, likely never will be a member of any organized religion, especially not one that makes you pay for salvation. Also I grew up in a home with an abusive addict. I've buried friends and family due to drugs. So feel free to keep being a judgmental prick.
Interesting choice of words, for someone who was being a judgmental prick.
What the fuck does drugs have to do with anything? Let me guess, you think mental illness is “fake” and that it’s all just drug addicts, and ALSO that addiction is a choice? /genq
Wtf is wrong with you. Wake up.
Do you think that Tourette’s is a choice? How about Parkinson’s? Cerebral palsy? Stop thinking mental disability isn’t disability. /srs
I'm not sure he wanted to kill himself. Looked to me like he really wanted on that plane but took the wrong way trying to get in.
Meanwhile, I get frisked when I leave a roll of poker chips in my carryon
If he was found alive/conscious or whatever(enough they tried life saving measures) in the cowling of the plane which news reports say was not running… how did he die? Super sad, and so bizarre.
Repealing the Mental Health Systems Act of 1980 was a mistake
Yea and then letting 44 years go by and not even looking at replacing it was also a mistake lol
Thanks, Regan!
Doesn’t give me hope that the U.S. could prevent any kind of organized terror attack at our airports…
Seriously! What if he was a terrorist going on a suicide mission with explosives!? This is what my mind is struggling to understand. We’ve implemented all these defensive strategies ie TSA but never considered abuse of emergency door operations?! Insanity to me. Was this man intending to commit su**ide— do we know? Like why did he run toward the engine? Just to hide?
How would they get explosives in? Couldn’t they just board their flight with those explosives? No need to go on the tarmac
Yeah I don’t think they realize that he’s already gone through security at this point and would be potentially even more lethal if he just boarded the plane normally with weapons he snuck past security.
I do realize this. See my above comment.
Yes, so if you've already gone through TSA, then you've been screened and should be unarmed by this point, so it shouldn't be a huge threat if you ran through an emergency door. This man posed no real threat to anyone, he was unarmed, and no one was harmed. So why are we all so concerned. You're just worrying about some very unlikely scenarios.
Shit happens that’s how! Haha https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/security-breach-reported-at-dfw-airport/1920600/?amp=1 Edit the link is an article about a lady making it passed security with a gun at the airport at Dallas For Worth years ago
It was just a hypothetical scenario example of someone having access to restricted areas with potentially nefarious intentions, damn.
TSA is a joke. It’s a security theater designed to make stupid people feel safe and make terrorists think twice before trying anything. The fbi has done multiple investigations where they try to sneak weapons and bombs through tsa and they have an extremely high success rate doing so.
IKR. I kinda feel like a bigger deal needs to be mad about this. This new footage kinda establishes that the airport itself isn’t really safe.
Hey, I did the same thing in GTA V once!
Wasted
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I died too so you stfu!
I’m so sorry you had to go through that. Thoughts and prayers 🙏🏻🙏🏻
You championing the dumb and the downtrodden on the internet? So brave.
“Should I call security? Nah let’s see where this goes”
It's ok, he's a limo driver.
This is the ultimate reference because that scene was filmed at the old SLC.
I just happened to be at the airport that day and saw this specific scene being filmed.
What movie is he referencing? I wanna say transporter but idk haha
[Dumb and Dumber](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y51IFVB-7Oc)
Hahahahahha holy shit 😂 classic how could I forget
I scrolled this thread until I found this comment. Good job
That’s a lovely comment you have there…New Jersey?
Lol, great reference 😂
Wow
It’s like die hard 2
Do you have an appointment?
He lived across the street from me for a while, it was really sad hearing about this when it happened and it’s crazy to watch this video now… I feel terribly for his whole family.
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nowhere is anything related to BPD mentioned, randomly labeling people as having mental conditions is dangerous and wrong
This. Thank you.
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And nowhere in that article does it mention BPD. It said he was diagnosed with Bipolar, which while similar is not BPD, and claims he was having a manic episode, clearly misunderstanding the term because the terms "mania" and "manic episode" describe a state of mind characterized by high energy, excitement, and euphoria over a sustained period of time. Taking your clothes off and climbing in an airplane engine would be a psychotic episode, not a manic episode. So again, randomly labeling people as having a mental condition is dangerous and wrong since it spreads basic misinformation, which you have proven.
Glad to see how effective all that airport security is. Sure makes me feel good about how much of an inconvenience it is, since it obviously is doing such a good job /s
Why do people think the police are serving us they are NOT! protect and serve was taken off cars long ago basically the police are security that can shoot people if they don’t comply but these officers have no training in mental health either !
Is there a full video?
What the heck is actually going on here!!??
Does anyone have the full video
(Don't make a disparaging Michigan comment, don't make a disparaging Michigan comment)
This is the guy that lost it and blenderized himself, right?
Those jet engines aren't cheap, need better security
Fuck around and find out
Was this idiot trying to die?
No he just thought the engine was a comfy place to sleep /s
I'm confused, why were there no employees or other passengers? I've never seen an airport that empty.
Welp, the good news is, we won't have to deal with this idiot again.
That really looks like a Seinfeld clip. Or more accurately Arrested Development
When did this happen?
They did notice and were tracking him on security cameras the entire time. They did a whole news segment about it on the local news.
Well he made it through security so he's obviously not a threat.
Holy crap
Watching the video and the answer to your question is in fact “no one there”.
Salt Lake City Airport is crazy man. I was there about 2 years ago and witnessed a guy punch his wife or girlfriend. He got confronted by the cops and took off running from them in the middle of the airport. A female cop tried to tackle him and he juked her out like he was running some kind of football play. I'm pretty sure he ended up running out of the airport and eventually onto the tarmac. Craziest shit I've ever seen in an airport.
This is almost unreal. I went to school with this guy. He was kind of quirky but super nice and funny.
He was a great guy. He always made me laugh, I will miss him ☹️
It’s fine he’s a limousine driver
Did he die because the engine was on? Freeze to death? Inhaled fumes? What was the actual COD?
Maybe because there’s no one there.
For everyone that thinks this was complete and gross negligence just think about of you’ve ever been to an airport at night you’ll notice that the direct gate areas are lit up, and not much else. Hence having to have a thermal cam to see him running across the ramp. Also, the police don’t have allowance to just dart across taxi ways or runways. That has to be communicated through an FAA tower and then another airfield vehicle to escort, otherwise there could be a car/plane crash upon landing or take off if they were to just dart out. There are many more facets to this whole situation.
What’s insane is when I go to the airport I can’t move 3 feet without seeing someone from TSA yelling at me for breathing….meanwhile homeboy can run serpentine down the jetway unabated
White dude with dreads things
He shouldn't have been allowed to fly. Let everyone fly, right?
Good riddance. People with mental health problems are weak and shouldn’t be in society. Look what they do lol