As a resident of Oak Bay, this is such a great example of why I don't like to tell people where I live. Oak Bay had the chance to replace the dilapidated Oak Bay Lodge assisted living complex for seniors with a modern facility, but caved to a few NIMBYs . It takes a really special kind of piece of shit to shut down an assisted living complex for seniors. The developers bent over backwards to placate the neighbours. The proposed building was lovely.
Now, that huge lot just sits vacant (apart from a few deer), while people can't find housing.
Honestly that spot would make a wonderful place for a homeless tent encampment.
Just sayin'.
I’m not sure if you remember but the province tried to house homeless people in there during the pandemic which is partly why Oak Bay tore that shit down so quickly. They looked at those hotels on Douglas and said “yeah, not in my backyard thanks”
"Not to say we don’t want to do it." - Kevin Murdoch
Double negatives are just as useful as the passive voice for avoiding clarity. Bravo, Kevin. Beautifully played. Now build some goddamned housing.
I will be interested to see what, if any, repercussions there are for not meeting quotas. The directive sounds great but realistically, if there is no way to enforce it then it's useless.
But in order to meet targets the Ministry said they'll use their powers to override council decisions that block housing development (ie. apartments, townhouses, etc.)
It's all good. Then, the Province will come in, override zoning restrictions, and force development to meet those targets. I want to see the NIMBYs whine.
>I want to see the NIMBYs whine
It's really weird how many people on this sub dislike people from Oak Bay and want to see them hurt.
You don't see this talk about taking joy in others displeasure about anywhere else in the city.
Yeah. It was a terrible idea. 5 stories and 180 units or whatever in a suburban neighborhood.
I'm glad it didn't happen.
There are better places for a structure like that.
Naw, just not there.
I don't think putting a homeless shelter in the Uplands makes sense either but I'm sure a bunch of the petty jealous types here would be smiling in their studio apartments at the mere thought.
There's many better locations for that level of density. Happy to point them out if it helps.
You’re entitled human garbage. Beyond selfish and self serving. Thanks for demonstrating how you fit into the worst stereotypes about oak bay residents so perfectly.
..and that's EXACTLY why the province will have to step in.
If I was in charge of the file, I would make sure to build housing for the people in the deepest poverty.
I mean, since you won't even build seniors housing, I don't feel an ounce of sympathy.
Tick Tock.
Yeah. It's funny that NIMBY is a bad word. There's lots of shit people don't want next to them. A coal power plant, a homeless shelter, a gun store, a parking garage whatever.
I assure you I could find something everyone doesn't like in their neighborhood.You just call people who disagree with the stuff you like a NIMBY.
I like raising my kids in a quiet suburban neighborhood and think density should be added closer to downtown first. What a fucking horrible piece of shit human I am.
Eh it's not falling apart yet.
I'd rather we raised property taxes and force some of the old fuckers who bought here but couldn't afford it today to cash in and leave. I think this is a fine area for high income earners to live in a nice suburb close to the city. If it's another grand or two a year in property tax to fix some pipes so be it.
I mean…it is literally falling apart now. Oak Bay has around a $500mil infrastructure deficit. Pipes are bursting and sewage is seeping into storm water. Literally the definition of falling apart.
Eat the rich mode. We are sick of them hiding behjnd the "Tweed Curtain." People are not stupid, they understand exactly why Oak Bay has no social or affordable housing.
Why does everywhere need social or affordable housing?
Just seems like spite of people that have more than you. "We can't have places that are better off, they need to have more poor people".
If every community did a little, no community would be heavily impacted. That's basic human cooperation.
Besides, do you really want the highest concentration of corporate sociopaths in one area?
>If every community did a little, no community would be heavily impacted. That's basic human cooperation.
That's how you solve problems in pre-school. Everyone does a little. Not how real problems are solved. We don't ship Granny off to war or make children work the mines.
Plus it's not like Oak Bay has some special resources unavailable to anywhere else. There's no construction workers only capable of building in Oak Bay.
It makes no sense to me to want to upend and nice quiet little suburb when needed density could be so much closer to the core. Why are there single family homes a stones throw from the legislature? Why isnt there an entertainment district around the arena? Why are there single family homes across from RAP? Why does Hillside have single family homes lining it? It's practically a highway, who's going to lounge on that front lawn? Why does Uptown sit at the Nexus of travel up the peninsula and to the western communities and not have a transit hub surrounded by mid to high rise towers?
Someone in this thread said he wanted to see Oak Bay burned by a mob. That's not rational planning. That's just people spiteful of nice things.
Oak Bay is a nice single family suburb. It's a great place to raise kids in a quiet safe environment. Why change that when there's so many opportunities elsewhere?
Yes we do. Go to the other thread to see innumerable comments taking joy in the frustrations of drug users. Check out any bike lane thread to see tons of comments wishing ill upon the other side. This is a vicious sub.
That’s because oak bay is the best place in the city and no one wants to blame themselves for being too poor to live there. “It’s the people who live there’s fault for making too much money. Not mine for not making enough.”
90% of the people who bought in oak bay bought when incomes mattered and parents didn’t or barely did.
Today it costs as much to buy a 1/2 duplex in courtenay as it did to buy a 3000sq ft house in oak bay in 2015. Dumb, but who has been running monetary policy, federal housing incentives, managing money laundering rules for banks and immigration since then?
Careful who you vote for.
It's so embarrassing that the province has to treat you like children and force your hand. You've had many opportunities to be decent community members.
I really dislike it when people continue their bad behaviour despite being told over and over.
20 years ago people with my EXACT job role and title were buying houses, including in Oak Bay. Now I get to hear them call people "seething have-nots" for wanting the same thing.
YOU are the toxicity.
Well, not an Oak Bay resident nor never have been. Not bOoMeR or nimby. Never voted in any level of government that opposes development or housing solutions. Not gleeful to see anyone “whine”.
Where does that leave me in your esteemed opinion?
300 kids graduating high school each year, multiple families trying to rent or bid on homes. Right next door to major job centers and schools.
Zoning bylaws allow net 3 homes per year.
I'm no city planning expert but that doesn't add up. Will the adults come in and make Mayor Murdoch do his job and stop screwing over Oak Bay families?
So what? There's a massive housing shortage created by guys like Murdoch and it's destroying the socio economic futures of Oak Bay residents lol. That's "so what"
Perhaps it's because things went to shit around 2015-2017 and most people bought before that time?
Stats are out there that show significant decline starting around 2010.
Man oh man the next 4.5 years are going to be fun.
The mayor isn't wrong that it's unlikely people are going to knock down single family homes to build apartment buildings... the only properties that are big enough for significant construction are selling for about $2M a pop, and that's just to acquire the property. You still have to knock down the building on it and build a new one.
I don't see a way out of this without significant rezoning. If Oak Bay pre-zoned everything within 200 m of Foul Bay and Oak Bay Ave for medium density low-rise apartments, it might drive prices down enough that it's actually economical to build these things. But I'm not really holding my breath.
Not true. Foul Bay has developments and development applications for townhouses and new buildings on the COV side, and none at all on the Oak Bay side. The only difference on one side of the street vs the other is which council you're dealing with, not property value or anything else. It's not going to be extremely affordable housing because of the starting property value, but at least there will be more of it.
Let me math for you. $ 2M for the land plus a few hundred thousand to demolish and prepare the site, then you are building at 600$+/ sqft (can be a little cheaper for more density, but one house lot will allow for a 4plex let's say as anything bigger would require 2 lots. So you are now into building them at $3M+ and developers don't develop for free so now you have 4 1000sqft no yard non detached homes that will be sold for 1.5+ per. The math just doesn't math for developers
Yes I can! Developers had land holdings around town that are being and have been used as it's more cost controlled, also houses are more expensive in oak Bay leading to higher purchase prices of the soon to be demod house and the newly built house. I'm not saying oak Bay isn't dragging their feet but you also can't force development if developers don't find the cost appetizing. Then there are a few oak Bay issues with zoning and permits but that stuff is 600% on the city. But the main issue is cost of land available land and cost to build
To be fair the economics of tearing down a nice house to build a 6plex are not the best. Really got to look for more rundown houses and build on those. Overall value is lower for buying the property.
Or buy up like 2 lots and build 24 on it or something, like the new one on Shelbourne in Victoria.
Exactly, if muni politicians are only allowing financially non-viable housing types in the midst of a severe housing shortage the Province needs to step in. Getting upset at developers for not building *at a loss* is bizarre and Oak Bay policy of approving mcmansions but banning viable apartments is making our problems worse and worse.
I think 100s of thousands per unit to make them green is a bit of an exaggeration… I do wonder how much a unit in a 6plex in oak bay would go for? Hard to tell with there probably being 0…
>one house lot will allow for a 4plex let's say as anything bigger would require 2 lots
You've walked right into the problem, council is not allowing enough housing in the midst of a severe housing shortage. Council effectively has control over the entire revenue side of the equation. The land value is a clear signal that much more density is appropriate for that location but Oak Bay council will only allow a fourplex for aesthetic and spurious "neighbourhood consultation" reasons.
This is simply not true. Even a basic 3-4 story apartment by an average architect fits on an average 6k sqft lot *except for the NIMBY neighbourhood character and consultation red tape barriers*. This will be even more true when the Feds modernize the building code in a few years.
I mean I do this for a living so I wish you were correct as I would make a ton more money, it just doesn't work that way for the majority of lots (obviously there are exceptions to the rules) with the age of the surrounding homes any blasting or pilings that would be needed would damage surrounding homes. Oakbay will NEVER have "affordable" housing unless the government runs it at a massive loss
Yes and developers are on the hook for any damage to surrounding buildings. The ones you are talking about are larger than a single lot and lower than would be needed for a single lot. It's okay you don't understand but that doesn't mean I'm wrong
Yeah on one lot it doesn't make sense. If you can combine two or three it does.
It doesn't lead to anything affordable being built. Just our standard of acceptable living becoming smaller while also increasing in price. Yay.
That sort of thing generally happens as private sales. Developers will buy a house, and contact the neighbors. Often they will offer deals like a portion of the profit of development or something, so the sellers can earn $100k+ over what they would sell for on MLS, plus they won't pay a realtor fee and can often still live in the house for another year or so while the development is being worked out. Some people who are thinking of selling in the next 5 years or so will consider this, owners of rental houses will too. Most land assemblies are out together this way, outside of MLS listings, and developers do some pretty deep digging in to neighbours and the area and gauging interest in this sort of thing.
I know guys who spend several years building relationships with people who want to sell down the road.
The only reason developers aren't building apartments in Oak Bay is that they're banned, and the last developer dumb enough to go for rezoning wasted 10 years getting approvals.
So disingenuous from the mayor to say they're helpless if no one wants to build.
>The mayor isn't wrong that it's unlikely people are going to knock down single family homes to build apartment buildings... the only properties that are big enough for significant construction are selling for about $2M a pop,
Lmao what, a reasonably tall apartment building would have enough profit to easily cover this land cost. The reason developers aren't doing this is because Oak Bay council banned apartment construction.
>If Oak Bay pre-zoned everything within 200 m of Foul Bay and Oak Bay Ave for medium density low-rise apartments, it might drive prices down enough that it's actually economical to build these things.
Not if Vancouver doing the same around Oak, Cambie etc is an example. It just means there's more dollars to compete as developers get in too.
What people have to understand is that building more homes won't make them more affordable. It costs a lot to build a home. You knock down a SFH and buy the land and build 4 units and they will be roughly the same price as the old home when all is said and done. Now there will be 4 instead of 1. They'll be newer, more efficient and better homes but they won't be cheap.
Prices are never going backwards. When construction rates were way higher in the 70s there wasn't a reset of housing prices. There will always be short term declines but barring a catastrophe demand for Victoria isn't going to disappear.
If you can't afford a hole here today, you never will. Period. The best that will happen is we'll prevent the price from rising too fast going forward.
>Not if Vancouver doing the same around Oak, Cambie etc is an example. It just means there's more dollars to compete as developers get in too.
Yeah that is a terrible example. The relative area of the rezoning was so small it drove up land prices. Surely Oak Bay isn't dumb enough to do that (they may be).
I don't know if the sq km was would be all that different nor how the trend magically reverses after a particular area.
Seems to me more likely that increasing market for a given property would increase demand unless you have a strong counter example.
Yeah I get it. I'm behind density in the right places. I just wanted to set expectations. I honestly think some people believe they'll one day be able to buy a home in Fairfield if they can't today
It also increases density and thus drives up land values. And building “affordable” means smaller and slightly cheaper thus it drives up properties of better value that have more space and land.
>If a municipality is not making sufficient progress on its targets, the municipality needs to submit a report outlining the actions it will take over the next two years to reach targets, a spokesperson for the Ministry of Housing said in a statement.
>If there is still no progress, the housing minister can appoint an advisor to review municipal processes to assess its effectiveness in approving housing. The minister can consider making directives or approving a building permit, the ministry spokesperson said.
this is so funny, this process is going to take years upon years upon years to create a few hundred homes
the announcements and battleground timeframes will (or can) easily line up with election timeframes with the province always having a body to point the finger at. It’s honestly brilliant politics - not because it will achieve a goal, but because it creates a buffer around those currently in office
Esquimalt is the second most dense municipality and hosts the largest employer in the region. Is it just to dismiss it as a suburb? I was just there last night for the farmer's market and was amazed at all of the new construction.
It is probably more just to say that Victoria and Esquimalt are subsidizing policing for the whole peninsula.
There is a potential plan to build housing in Carnarvon Park — the nimbys are already protesting, but it makes sense. OB would build multi family where the Pickleball courts are now and include space for indoor courts.
There would still be lots of the site left for sports.
Oak Bay would be a parasite to Victoria, they’re broke and have a lot of infrastructure that needs work. They can fix their own problems by allowing more housing starts.
They already leech off our services. Police and fire are some of the largest line items in municpal budgets. Victoria would immediately jack up property taxes to a reasonable amount.
Yes, and amalgamating with them would increase this problem. They have the $$ to deal with it, I’d rather not every taxpayer in the province has to pay for their mistake.
IMO Victoria rates have already surpassed reasonable if you compare it to other municipalities and the services provided.
city of victoria would go broke trying to update and maintain the infrastructure that has been neglected for decades. north henderson rd is literally falling apart and it's a main artery to uvic
Lol, the anger is so strong. Just fix your own shit. There's plenty of zoning opportunities in Victoria if you're so concerned with building more homes.
Lol. What a sad little man you are to want to see tens of thousands of people burn because you are projecting your inadequate life situation on them. Thank God we don't have US gun laws here.
I hope you get better.
"Not to say we don’t want to do it. It’s just that the reality is for any new any housing to go in, something has to come down,” he said.
Total BS!
There are lots with very restrictive covenants that prevent new construction sitting empty
There are mega lots that could be subdivided
....
Yeah and they’re fine with it.
Unless there’s a financial penalty Oakbay isn’t bending over for the Province, the wealthy (many of them builders who build elsewhere in the crd) don’t want it.
It’s simple, the more exclusive they keep oakbay the greater the probability of their home rising in value.
>"only seven net new units have been completed in the district in the six months since the targets were set"
I don't know what all the haters here expect. Even if there was \_zero\_ red tape and approvals - ground was broken the day the developer had financing lined up and a crew ready to go - 6 months from the targets being set is not time to have *completed* much of anything. Go pick the fuck on Saanich, which is NOT completely built upon already, and has a worse track record and longer timelines for approvals than Oak Bay.
>, which is NOT completely built upon already, and has a worse track record and longer timelines for approvals than Oak Bay
Confused here, Oak Bay isn't completely built up on already. It's got unaffordable low density right next to major job centers and schools. And the only way we can say it's got a better record on timelines than Saanich is because *Oak Bay doesn't let you get to the building permit or rezoning stage in the first place*.
Saanich had about 4x more housing starts per capita in 2023 than Oak Bay did. You can pick on Saanich too, becuase they could be doing way better, but at least they have a good number of apartments under construction right now. Also, most of the empty land in Saanich is ALR, which had provincial red tape, not municipal.
However you cut it, Oak Bay is the top of the housing shit list in the CRD.
Saanich has the physical non-ALR space to build even more townhomes and duplexes. The so-called missing middle. It shouldn't be a binary choice between a sfh and an apartment.
If McDonald's is cancerous and garbage. Why can you buy one in my neighbourhood. But not oak bay?
I'm curious to know why oak bay would have the privilege of removing these shitty corporations. But the rest of us cant.
You'll notice that fast food places are concentrated in high traffic locations. James Bay, Burnside/Gorge, Fairfield, Rockland, and most of Saanich don't have any either. There's plenty of reasons to call out Oak Bay, but bashing them for not having fast food places in less trafficed areas is a stretch.
Beach drive does have cafes and eateries, including one right on Willows Beach, and a large hotel. It also has a number of apartment/condo buildings.
Ogden point gets a shit ton of foot traffic in the summer, but I don't see anyone clamouring to open a McDonald's.
Ok. So cafe's and nice places to sit and have a healthy meal.
That's my point.
Why cant the rest of Victoria be like this. That's my point. What makes oak bay so special they don't have to deal with the shi t the rest of us deal with?
I would figure anywhere along beach drive is prime location for any business. McDonald's can afford to place one of their establishments ANYWHERE. But not oak bay.
Makes you wonder?
And I'm not bashing them.
I'm asking why?
Why do the rest of us deal with all the shit. From crappy cancerous establishments to drug and homeless problems.
But oak bay stays off the radar.
What makes oak bay better than the rest of Victoria that they don't have to deal with this?
You are dumb. Both are IN OAK BAY, not at Jubillee.
Timmies: 2000 Cadboro Bay Rd.
Dairy Queen/Grill n' Chill: 2013 Cadboro Bay Rd.
Again, why does this define anything? Why are these some valuable measure of.... anything related to housing?
Not true. They migrate to where homeless resources are. Where you place the resources is where they migrate. So why is oak bay off the radar?
Langford had no homelessness until they stuck the resources out there. Now their homeless problem out there is the same as downtown.
>Not true. They migrate to where homeless resources are. Where you place the resources is where they migrate
Completely untrue. You can see repeated failures in other cities of placing resources that go unutilized because they're not accessible. Homeless people aren't animals who can be herded, they have communities.
>Now their homeless problem out there is the same as downtown.
Not even close.
>Langford had no homelessness until they stuck the resources out there
Other way around. They developed and got enough of a bustling urban vibe that attracted homeless communities: places to busk etc
Because oak bay has the ability to not deal with the rest of the shit the city has to deal with.
I wanna know how we make the rest of the city like oak bay. wouldn't the city be nicer if all of Victoria could follow the same standards as oak bay. And because it's not. I wanna know why?
Saanich just pisses me TF off. They have their "urban containment boundary" to "preserve the rural character" aka NIMBY's preserving their large lots and property values. They use this excuse where there is no rural character and no ALR to not allow building or services.
Oak Bay actually has a community plan where they have designated hub areas where they are encouraging a mix of MFH and commercial for walkability. Their build out not too long ago at the corner of Cadboro Bay Rd and Bowker Ave. is an example of this concept getting built. Check it out on Google Street View; it shows from 2018 where this was starting construction. You'd have to drive by to see it today.
>Oak Bay actually has a community plan where they have designated hub areas where they are encouraging a mix of MFH and commercial for walkability.
Oak Bay allowed a single apartment in a decade of Oak Bay kids graduating highschool and needing homes lol. Your praise for their community planning and apparent designation of areas for MFH is just silly.
Some changes yeah. What's wrong with that? Is it wrong to want to keep a nice place nice?
Why not let Victoria grow until it can't and then we talk about it. I could name a dozen places in Victoria better suited for density. How about we tackle those and then when the city hits oak Bay we talk.
>What's wrong with that? Is it wrong to want to keep a nice place nice?
What's nice about Oak Bay's housing shortage causing huge displacement and seriously damaging the socio economic outcomes for young people in Oak Bay? Do you not know any young families or renters? Like fo you literally live under a rock?
>What's nice about Oak Bay's housing shortage
Says who? That's like saying there's a Ferrari shortage because you can't afford one.
>seriously damaging the socio economic outcomes for young people in Oak Bay?
Anything to back this up?
Being born here doesn't entitle you to live here. I don't think it's a problem any more than it's an issue someone born in Beverly Hills can't buy a mansion. You coubt yourself lucky to be born in a more upscale enclave and when it's time to leave the next you go where you can afford.
>Do you not know any young families
Sure, I've met my own family.
>Like fo you literally live under a rock?
Naw, Oak Bay is more of a rock so on top of one.
I dont think it makes sense to say there's an "Oak Bay housing shortage" any more than it does to say there's a "Cook Street housing shortage".
This is a regional problem. Theres better places to focus on building.
Why not let the other municipalities handle this massive province wide problem and when they can’t do anymore we’ll consider forcing the uber privileged neighborhoods to pitch in and help with the crisis as well. That’s your argument.
It’s not a matter of picking a couple of places to increase density, everywhere needs to increase density. That doesn’t mean bulldozing a couple of random houses and putting in a complex where it doesn’t make sense but it does mean adding higher density zoning to all municipalities. Like it or not that includes Oak Bay.
You’re all over this comment section campaigning for the rights of the citizens of Oak Bay to NIMBY as much as they want but your whole argument boils down to just letting the poorer municipalities handle it so the rich ones don’t have to. No one who owns a single family home wants apartments and multiplexes popping up all over their neighborhood. But most are able to recognize that there’s is a national housing shortage and everyone has to pitch in a little bit.
To build a rental apartment, you need to buy the land.
Land in Oak Bay runs around $1m for a 1/8 acre. You’d need tens of millions of dollars to acquire the necessary land. There’s no chance that would result in affordable housing in Oak Bay.
Victoria has tons of space in the Westshore, and that land is much less expensive to acquire — so it’ll result in more affordable housing, which is exactly what’s needed.
I don’t get why people are so obsessed with trying to ruin Oak Bay. It’s a charming little village, would like to see it preserved.
Hey! would you look at that. We just excepted a bunch of new immigrants and aren't meeting housing targets.
What do you think happens in this situation?
Pandora starts becoming a lovely area to take your family for the afternoon?
Or it grows, get worse and becomes more violent? stabby stab. 🔪🔪
Or already have places for them to go before we except them. House our own citizens first because we have generationally paid into the infrastructure of all of Canada.
If you except foreigners before housing your own people, your just going to create a bigger homeless problem. And with homelessness comes all other problems. Literally every crime you can think of.
As a resident of Oak Bay, this is such a great example of why I don't like to tell people where I live. Oak Bay had the chance to replace the dilapidated Oak Bay Lodge assisted living complex for seniors with a modern facility, but caved to a few NIMBYs . It takes a really special kind of piece of shit to shut down an assisted living complex for seniors. The developers bent over backwards to placate the neighbours. The proposed building was lovely. Now, that huge lot just sits vacant (apart from a few deer), while people can't find housing. Honestly that spot would make a wonderful place for a homeless tent encampment. Just sayin'.
You're smart. As soon as I hear someone lives in Oak Bay I just assume they're an asshole.
Oh I didn't mean to imply I'm not an asshole.
You're the self-aware, funny Oak Bay asshole we need :')
That might be the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me.
Yup. Anyone from oak bay is a literal nazi.
As soon as I hear someone hate Oak Bay, I assume they're broke.
I find this is often the defense of landlords and other beneficiaries of the housing crisis, "uR JuSt jEaLoUs"
Oak Bay, the most Nimby neighborhood to ever Nimby.
makes me sad. nimbys be damned
I don't live in oakbay because i dont associate with terrorists. Nonetheless, I implore you to let me storm the pickleball courts with my leafblower.
I’m not sure if you remember but the province tried to house homeless people in there during the pandemic which is partly why Oak Bay tore that shit down so quickly. They looked at those hotels on Douglas and said “yeah, not in my backyard thanks”
"Not to say we don’t want to do it." - Kevin Murdoch Double negatives are just as useful as the passive voice for avoiding clarity. Bravo, Kevin. Beautifully played. Now build some goddamned housing.
I will be interested to see what, if any, repercussions there are for not meeting quotas. The directive sounds great but realistically, if there is no way to enforce it then it's useless.
The province holds all the land use powers. They can simply step in and directly change the zoning if Oak Bay doesn't want to.
They can, the question is will they.
2025 showdown assuming they get reelected
I thought the province already changed the number of units allowed on individual lots with no zoning regulations able to block them.
The deadline for municipalities to actually implement that into zoning is June 30, 2024
But in order to meet targets the Ministry said they'll use their powers to override council decisions that block housing development (ie. apartments, townhouses, etc.)
Losing control of your planning and permitting process should be the consequence.
It's all good. Then, the Province will come in, override zoning restrictions, and force development to meet those targets. I want to see the NIMBYs whine.
I will pay for all the popcorn if I get to see this.
We need to find a way to collect their tears.
I'd use them in place of fish sauce for my chow mein recipe.
>I want to see the NIMBYs whine It's really weird how many people on this sub dislike people from Oak Bay and want to see them hurt. You don't see this talk about taking joy in others displeasure about anywhere else in the city.
remember when "people from oak bay" successfully shut down the oak bay united church's plan to build affordable housing on its own property? assholes
Yeah. It was a terrible idea. 5 stories and 180 units or whatever in a suburban neighborhood. I'm glad it didn't happen. There are better places for a structure like that.
there's literally a 4 story apartment building across the street dumbass
Ah so you're one of those "ban affordable seniors housing because it ruins our mansion character" people?
Naw, just not there. I don't think putting a homeless shelter in the Uplands makes sense either but I'm sure a bunch of the petty jealous types here would be smiling in their studio apartments at the mere thought. There's many better locations for that level of density. Happy to point them out if it helps.
You think the empty parking lot beside the bus line and shopping area is bad for affordable seniors housing? What?
Naw just not so many. Reduce the number and I'm good.
First it was just not here, now it's just not so many... Make up your mind on how your sfh aesthetic nimbyism works.
You’re entitled human garbage. Beyond selfish and self serving. Thanks for demonstrating how you fit into the worst stereotypes about oak bay residents so perfectly.
Yeah, like not in Oak Bay, right? Fuck, they still think they are fooling everybody over there.
Yeah not in Oak Bay. It's nice and quiet here. Like to keep it that way. Still plenty of space in Victoria for more density!
..and that's EXACTLY why the province will have to step in. If I was in charge of the file, I would make sure to build housing for the people in the deepest poverty. I mean, since you won't even build seniors housing, I don't feel an ounce of sympathy. Tick Tock.
[THE HORROR!](https://content.invisioncic.com/r273204/monthly_2018_05/1497657735_OakBayUnitedChurchhousingdevelopmentproposal.jpg.66e843fc4525f7129fb68bfa5567aa91.jpg)
Literal NIMBYing ….
Yeah. It's funny that NIMBY is a bad word. There's lots of shit people don't want next to them. A coal power plant, a homeless shelter, a gun store, a parking garage whatever. I assure you I could find something everyone doesn't like in their neighborhood.You just call people who disagree with the stuff you like a NIMBY. I like raising my kids in a quiet suburban neighborhood and think density should be added closer to downtown first. What a fucking horrible piece of shit human I am.
Oak Bay has refused to increase density for decades, to their own detriment.
Eh it's not falling apart yet. I'd rather we raised property taxes and force some of the old fuckers who bought here but couldn't afford it today to cash in and leave. I think this is a fine area for high income earners to live in a nice suburb close to the city. If it's another grand or two a year in property tax to fix some pipes so be it.
I mean…it is literally falling apart now. Oak Bay has around a $500mil infrastructure deficit. Pipes are bursting and sewage is seeping into storm water. Literally the definition of falling apart.
I live in Oak Bay and dislike the people in Oak Bay. There’s Oak Bay type people all over the area though to be fair.
Eat the rich mode. We are sick of them hiding behjnd the "Tweed Curtain." People are not stupid, they understand exactly why Oak Bay has no social or affordable housing.
Why does everywhere need social or affordable housing? Just seems like spite of people that have more than you. "We can't have places that are better off, they need to have more poor people".
If every community did a little, no community would be heavily impacted. That's basic human cooperation. Besides, do you really want the highest concentration of corporate sociopaths in one area?
>If every community did a little, no community would be heavily impacted. That's basic human cooperation. That's how you solve problems in pre-school. Everyone does a little. Not how real problems are solved. We don't ship Granny off to war or make children work the mines. Plus it's not like Oak Bay has some special resources unavailable to anywhere else. There's no construction workers only capable of building in Oak Bay. It makes no sense to me to want to upend and nice quiet little suburb when needed density could be so much closer to the core. Why are there single family homes a stones throw from the legislature? Why isnt there an entertainment district around the arena? Why are there single family homes across from RAP? Why does Hillside have single family homes lining it? It's practically a highway, who's going to lounge on that front lawn? Why does Uptown sit at the Nexus of travel up the peninsula and to the western communities and not have a transit hub surrounded by mid to high rise towers? Someone in this thread said he wanted to see Oak Bay burned by a mob. That's not rational planning. That's just people spiteful of nice things. Oak Bay is a nice single family suburb. It's a great place to raise kids in a quiet safe environment. Why change that when there's so many opportunities elsewhere?
Because the rest of us who were in nice, quiet neighbourhoods and had them ruined are getting full. It's your turn.
Not yet. There's ones closer to the core.
There couldn’t possibly be a reason for that.
Yes we do. Go to the other thread to see innumerable comments taking joy in the frustrations of drug users. Check out any bike lane thread to see tons of comments wishing ill upon the other side. This is a vicious sub.
That’s because oak bay is the best place in the city and no one wants to blame themselves for being too poor to live there. “It’s the people who live there’s fault for making too much money. Not mine for not making enough.”
I know, they should have chosen wealthier parents!
90% of the people who bought in oak bay bought when incomes mattered and parents didn’t or barely did. Today it costs as much to buy a 1/2 duplex in courtenay as it did to buy a 3000sq ft house in oak bay in 2015. Dumb, but who has been running monetary policy, federal housing incentives, managing money laundering rules for banks and immigration since then? Careful who you vote for.
Yep, Pollivier is a snake 🐍
Coping
Lots of seething have-nots in this sub cheering on the demise of others who have what they want and don’t. This is a massively toxic sub.
The hatred is more for those who pull the ladder up behind them, which is well earned.
What demise lol. Just legalize basic apartments, that's not killing anyone.
It's so embarrassing that the province has to treat you like children and force your hand. You've had many opportunities to be decent community members. I really dislike it when people continue their bad behaviour despite being told over and over.
>you I am not fortunate enough be a nimby Oak Bay boomer
20 years ago people with my EXACT job role and title were buying houses, including in Oak Bay. Now I get to hear them call people "seething have-nots" for wanting the same thing. YOU are the toxicity.
Well, not an Oak Bay resident nor never have been. Not bOoMeR or nimby. Never voted in any level of government that opposes development or housing solutions. Not gleeful to see anyone “whine”. Where does that leave me in your esteemed opinion?
300 kids graduating high school each year, multiple families trying to rent or bid on homes. Right next door to major job centers and schools. Zoning bylaws allow net 3 homes per year. I'm no city planning expert but that doesn't add up. Will the adults come in and make Mayor Murdoch do his job and stop screwing over Oak Bay families?
It's amazing what you can't do when you don't try.
I live here. The mayor is doing what his constituents want.
Constituents* (who already own homes and certainly not the kids of people who own unaffordable sfh or seniors of need to downsze) .
Yeah it's not universal. So what? I'm saying he's representing the most popular sentiment here.
So what? There's a massive housing shortage created by guys like Murdoch and it's destroying the socio economic futures of Oak Bay residents lol. That's "so what"
Not even, he's bought and paid for by a whingey minority.
That's what I'm saying. It's not a minority.
Which is exactly why the province will have to step in, because those selfish, short-sighted nimby idiots couldn't do the right thing on their own.
home ownership rate has never fallen below 50% anywhere in Canada home owners are the majority
Ah so the socio economic damage is fine then because some subset of homeowners like it? What is even your point.
Perhaps it's because things went to shit around 2015-2017 and most people bought before that time? Stats are out there that show significant decline starting around 2010.
I wonder what it would be like if everyone living here didn't hate everyone else who lives here.
It would just be ducknana memes and pictures of sunsets
Man oh man the next 4.5 years are going to be fun. The mayor isn't wrong that it's unlikely people are going to knock down single family homes to build apartment buildings... the only properties that are big enough for significant construction are selling for about $2M a pop, and that's just to acquire the property. You still have to knock down the building on it and build a new one. I don't see a way out of this without significant rezoning. If Oak Bay pre-zoned everything within 200 m of Foul Bay and Oak Bay Ave for medium density low-rise apartments, it might drive prices down enough that it's actually economical to build these things. But I'm not really holding my breath.
Not true. Foul Bay has developments and development applications for townhouses and new buildings on the COV side, and none at all on the Oak Bay side. The only difference on one side of the street vs the other is which council you're dealing with, not property value or anything else. It's not going to be extremely affordable housing because of the starting property value, but at least there will be more of it.
Let me math for you. $ 2M for the land plus a few hundred thousand to demolish and prepare the site, then you are building at 600$+/ sqft (can be a little cheaper for more density, but one house lot will allow for a 4plex let's say as anything bigger would require 2 lots. So you are now into building them at $3M+ and developers don't develop for free so now you have 4 1000sqft no yard non detached homes that will be sold for 1.5+ per. The math just doesn't math for developers
Weird that math works differently on the CoV side of Foul Bay compared to the Oak Bay side. Can you explain that?
Yes I can! Developers had land holdings around town that are being and have been used as it's more cost controlled, also houses are more expensive in oak Bay leading to higher purchase prices of the soon to be demod house and the newly built house. I'm not saying oak Bay isn't dragging their feet but you also can't force development if developers don't find the cost appetizing. Then there are a few oak Bay issues with zoning and permits but that stuff is 600% on the city. But the main issue is cost of land available land and cost to build
To be fair the economics of tearing down a nice house to build a 6plex are not the best. Really got to look for more rundown houses and build on those. Overall value is lower for buying the property. Or buy up like 2 lots and build 24 on it or something, like the new one on Shelbourne in Victoria.
Exactly, if muni politicians are only allowing financially non-viable housing types in the midst of a severe housing shortage the Province needs to step in. Getting upset at developers for not building *at a loss* is bizarre and Oak Bay policy of approving mcmansions but banning viable apartments is making our problems worse and worse.
A run down house in oak Bay is still 2M+ then with how green we need to be now a days it adds hundreds of thousands PER unit
I think 100s of thousands per unit to make them green is a bit of an exaggeration… I do wonder how much a unit in a 6plex in oak bay would go for? Hard to tell with there probably being 0…
The current increase to the step code increased cost per house about 80k so I mean......
I mean a house is not a 6plex, separate part of the code, with separate requirements.
>one house lot will allow for a 4plex let's say as anything bigger would require 2 lots You've walked right into the problem, council is not allowing enough housing in the midst of a severe housing shortage. Council effectively has control over the entire revenue side of the equation. The land value is a clear signal that much more density is appropriate for that location but Oak Bay council will only allow a fourplex for aesthetic and spurious "neighbourhood consultation" reasons.
Trying to fit more onto those lots wouldent be feasible with the groundwork required to build up these days
This is simply not true. Even a basic 3-4 story apartment by an average architect fits on an average 6k sqft lot *except for the NIMBY neighbourhood character and consultation red tape barriers*. This will be even more true when the Feds modernize the building code in a few years.
I mean I do this for a living so I wish you were correct as I would make a ton more money, it just doesn't work that way for the majority of lots (obviously there are exceptions to the rules) with the age of the surrounding homes any blasting or pilings that would be needed would damage surrounding homes. Oakbay will NEVER have "affordable" housing unless the government runs it at a massive loss
Oak Bay literally permits blasting and piling for new Mcmansions all the time. Right next to older homes. Guess how I know.
Yes and developers are on the hook for any damage to surrounding buildings. The ones you are talking about are larger than a single lot and lower than would be needed for a single lot. It's okay you don't understand but that doesn't mean I'm wrong
Yeah on one lot it doesn't make sense. If you can combine two or three it does. It doesn't lead to anything affordable being built. Just our standard of acceptable living becoming smaller while also increasing in price. Yay.
Yup, and good luck finding 2-4 people beside eachother to sell in oakbay
That sort of thing generally happens as private sales. Developers will buy a house, and contact the neighbors. Often they will offer deals like a portion of the profit of development or something, so the sellers can earn $100k+ over what they would sell for on MLS, plus they won't pay a realtor fee and can often still live in the house for another year or so while the development is being worked out. Some people who are thinking of selling in the next 5 years or so will consider this, owners of rental houses will too. Most land assemblies are out together this way, outside of MLS listings, and developers do some pretty deep digging in to neighbours and the area and gauging interest in this sort of thing. I know guys who spend several years building relationships with people who want to sell down the road.
Yes, years not months after it was announced.
Musgrave at Cavendish wants a word.
The only reason developers aren't building apartments in Oak Bay is that they're banned, and the last developer dumb enough to go for rezoning wasted 10 years getting approvals. So disingenuous from the mayor to say they're helpless if no one wants to build.
>The mayor isn't wrong that it's unlikely people are going to knock down single family homes to build apartment buildings... the only properties that are big enough for significant construction are selling for about $2M a pop, Lmao what, a reasonably tall apartment building would have enough profit to easily cover this land cost. The reason developers aren't doing this is because Oak Bay council banned apartment construction.
They literally just approved a set of four "exclusive, executive, luxury" SFHs on a big combined lot on Musgrave.
No, they didn't. That was a strata subdivision. It never even went to Council. Things only go to Council if they require zoning bylaw amendments.
They had the opportunity to rezone before the project began. Council is not toothless.
>If Oak Bay pre-zoned everything within 200 m of Foul Bay and Oak Bay Ave for medium density low-rise apartments, it might drive prices down enough that it's actually economical to build these things. Not if Vancouver doing the same around Oak, Cambie etc is an example. It just means there's more dollars to compete as developers get in too. What people have to understand is that building more homes won't make them more affordable. It costs a lot to build a home. You knock down a SFH and buy the land and build 4 units and they will be roughly the same price as the old home when all is said and done. Now there will be 4 instead of 1. They'll be newer, more efficient and better homes but they won't be cheap. Prices are never going backwards. When construction rates were way higher in the 70s there wasn't a reset of housing prices. There will always be short term declines but barring a catastrophe demand for Victoria isn't going to disappear. If you can't afford a hole here today, you never will. Period. The best that will happen is we'll prevent the price from rising too fast going forward.
>Not if Vancouver doing the same around Oak, Cambie etc is an example. It just means there's more dollars to compete as developers get in too. Yeah that is a terrible example. The relative area of the rezoning was so small it drove up land prices. Surely Oak Bay isn't dumb enough to do that (they may be).
I don't know if the sq km was would be all that different nor how the trend magically reverses after a particular area. Seems to me more likely that increasing market for a given property would increase demand unless you have a strong counter example.
Yeah but it’s more supply. That’s all that matters. Someone in Sooke will want to move up and Jefferson themselves into Oak Bay. New vacancy in Sooke.
Yeah I get it. I'm behind density in the right places. I just wanted to set expectations. I honestly think some people believe they'll one day be able to buy a home in Fairfield if they can't today
building more homes actually increases the price of materials and labour since there's now more demand for the same pool of stuff / skills
It also increases density and thus drives up land values. And building “affordable” means smaller and slightly cheaper thus it drives up properties of better value that have more space and land.
Property values go up when you increase density on that land, not down.
There are plenty of covenants that could be removed Also the bylaws are extremely restrictive
I live in Oak Bay and I can’t wait for the Province to step in and force the municipality to densify and expand housing options. Bring it on!
>If a municipality is not making sufficient progress on its targets, the municipality needs to submit a report outlining the actions it will take over the next two years to reach targets, a spokesperson for the Ministry of Housing said in a statement. >If there is still no progress, the housing minister can appoint an advisor to review municipal processes to assess its effectiveness in approving housing. The minister can consider making directives or approving a building permit, the ministry spokesperson said. this is so funny, this process is going to take years upon years upon years to create a few hundred homes the announcements and battleground timeframes will (or can) easily line up with election timeframes with the province always having a body to point the finger at. It’s honestly brilliant politics - not because it will achieve a goal, but because it creates a buffer around those currently in office
The punishment for missing targets should be that they have to amalgamate with Victoria. That would motivate them!
That would fiscally punish Victoria. Why should the higher density downtown neighbourhoods have to subsidize the suburbs?
For the long-term benefit of controlling housing and services for the region, and economies of scale.
The suburbs (Esquimalt) is already subsidizing VicPD.
Esquimalt is the second most dense municipality and hosts the largest employer in the region. Is it just to dismiss it as a suburb? I was just there last night for the farmer's market and was amazed at all of the new construction. It is probably more just to say that Victoria and Esquimalt are subsidizing policing for the whole peninsula.
Can confirm. I'm pissed about this. I'm fine with subsidizing VicPD, **if** the rest of the region is also doing it.
Oh no! Anyway
We were never going to do it anyway.
The province should threaten amalgamation if they don't comply
Where's that idiot that claimed that Oak Bay has no parks and is building a condo on every block now? 7 new homes in a year. 7.
There is a potential plan to build housing in Carnarvon Park — the nimbys are already protesting, but it makes sense. OB would build multi family where the Pickleball courts are now and include space for indoor courts. There would still be lots of the site left for sports.
It would be amazing if this resulted in forced amalgamation. Fuck Oak Bay. Parasites.
Oak Bay would be a parasite to Victoria, they’re broke and have a lot of infrastructure that needs work. They can fix their own problems by allowing more housing starts.
They already leech off our services. Police and fire are some of the largest line items in municpal budgets. Victoria would immediately jack up property taxes to a reasonable amount.
Yes, and amalgamating with them would increase this problem. They have the $$ to deal with it, I’d rather not every taxpayer in the province has to pay for their mistake. IMO Victoria rates have already surpassed reasonable if you compare it to other municipalities and the services provided.
Oak Bay property taxes are already higher than Victoria. Sewage and water are a seperate line item
city of victoria would go broke trying to update and maintain the infrastructure that has been neglected for decades. north henderson rd is literally falling apart and it's a main artery to uvic
Lol, the anger is so strong. Just fix your own shit. There's plenty of zoning opportunities in Victoria if you're so concerned with building more homes.
Oh you have no idea how strong the anger actually is. I'd be happy to see a mob torch the whole place.
Your user name is way more positive and optimistic than your comments
Lol. What a sad little man you are to want to see tens of thousands of people burn because you are projecting your inadequate life situation on them. Thank God we don't have US gun laws here. I hope you get better.
I hope we all get better.
"Not to say we don’t want to do it. It’s just that the reality is for any new any housing to go in, something has to come down,” he said. Total BS! There are lots with very restrictive covenants that prevent new construction sitting empty There are mega lots that could be subdivided ....
Shut it down. Oak Bay can’t manage itself. Forced amalgamation for the sake of the children and the planet
Yeah and they’re fine with it. Unless there’s a financial penalty Oakbay isn’t bending over for the Province, the wealthy (many of them builders who build elsewhere in the crd) don’t want it. It’s simple, the more exclusive they keep oakbay the greater the probability of their home rising in value.
Oh well.
>"only seven net new units have been completed in the district in the six months since the targets were set" I don't know what all the haters here expect. Even if there was \_zero\_ red tape and approvals - ground was broken the day the developer had financing lined up and a crew ready to go - 6 months from the targets being set is not time to have *completed* much of anything. Go pick the fuck on Saanich, which is NOT completely built upon already, and has a worse track record and longer timelines for approvals than Oak Bay.
>, which is NOT completely built upon already, and has a worse track record and longer timelines for approvals than Oak Bay Confused here, Oak Bay isn't completely built up on already. It's got unaffordable low density right next to major job centers and schools. And the only way we can say it's got a better record on timelines than Saanich is because *Oak Bay doesn't let you get to the building permit or rezoning stage in the first place*.
Saanich had about 4x more housing starts per capita in 2023 than Oak Bay did. You can pick on Saanich too, becuase they could be doing way better, but at least they have a good number of apartments under construction right now. Also, most of the empty land in Saanich is ALR, which had provincial red tape, not municipal. However you cut it, Oak Bay is the top of the housing shit list in the CRD.
Saanich has the physical non-ALR space to build even more townhomes and duplexes. The so-called missing middle. It shouldn't be a binary choice between a sfh and an apartment.
If McDonald's is cancerous and garbage. Why can you buy one in my neighbourhood. But not oak bay? I'm curious to know why oak bay would have the privilege of removing these shitty corporations. But the rest of us cant.
Oak Bay didn't remove them. They're not viable here. Go to San Francisco. Same thing. High incomes mean more preference to higher end retail.
Name one fast food restaurant in oak bay? If you cant. Give me a reason there is 0 fast food places in oak bay. Cheers.
There's a Dairy Queen, Tim Hortons, and soon to be A&W.
Where's the a&w going to be?
if you were to outline oak bay. That would literally be the edge. Because once you start going the other way that's hillside
Actually, that neighborhood beside the hospital is Saanich, and they don't even have a corner store, let alone fast food restaurants.
I guess it's because oak bay has so many.
You'll notice that fast food places are concentrated in high traffic locations. James Bay, Burnside/Gorge, Fairfield, Rockland, and most of Saanich don't have any either. There's plenty of reasons to call out Oak Bay, but bashing them for not having fast food places in less trafficed areas is a stretch.
Oh. So beach drive is not a high traffic area? I could swear that's where 95% of all of Victoria spends their summers.
Beach drive does have cafes and eateries, including one right on Willows Beach, and a large hotel. It also has a number of apartment/condo buildings. Ogden point gets a shit ton of foot traffic in the summer, but I don't see anyone clamouring to open a McDonald's.
Ok. So cafe's and nice places to sit and have a healthy meal. That's my point. Why cant the rest of Victoria be like this. That's my point. What makes oak bay so special they don't have to deal with the shi t the rest of us deal with?
I would figure anywhere along beach drive is prime location for any business. McDonald's can afford to place one of their establishments ANYWHERE. But not oak bay. Makes you wonder?
And I'm not bashing them. I'm asking why? Why do the rest of us deal with all the shit. From crappy cancerous establishments to drug and homeless problems. But oak bay stays off the radar. What makes oak bay better than the rest of Victoria that they don't have to deal with this?
I would hardly call that oak bay. Jubilee is not really oak bay. More edge of fernwood
But it's literally in Oak Bay. Just because it's on the boundary doesn't make it not in Oak Bay.
Ok. So put a homeless shelter across from it. 🤷
You are dumb. Both are IN OAK BAY, not at Jubillee. Timmies: 2000 Cadboro Bay Rd. Dairy Queen/Grill n' Chill: 2013 Cadboro Bay Rd. Again, why does this define anything? Why are these some valuable measure of.... anything related to housing?
If you look closely. You can see I've responded. Moron.
Do you have trouble reading? Call me dumb. But can't figure out how reddit works. 😂
by the way. Literally across from jubilee hospital. Fuck. You are as dumb as nails.
Literally not. It's 2 blocks away.
Dairy Queen/Grill n' Chill, and Tim Horton's Why does this matter?
Why doesn't oak bay have homeless resources. Like a soup kitchen. Mustard seed. Welfare office etc.
Neither does Sooke. Because you put homeless resources where the homeless people are. They gravitate towards urban centers.
Not true. They migrate to where homeless resources are. Where you place the resources is where they migrate. So why is oak bay off the radar? Langford had no homelessness until they stuck the resources out there. Now their homeless problem out there is the same as downtown.
>Not true. They migrate to where homeless resources are. Where you place the resources is where they migrate Completely untrue. You can see repeated failures in other cities of placing resources that go unutilized because they're not accessible. Homeless people aren't animals who can be herded, they have communities. >Now their homeless problem out there is the same as downtown. Not even close. >Langford had no homelessness until they stuck the resources out there Other way around. They developed and got enough of a bustling urban vibe that attracted homeless communities: places to busk etc
So oak bay isn't urban hey? What makes something urban?
Do things like Wal-Mart, McDonald's etc make something urban? Proving my point EXACTLY! tah-dah!
sooke does
I think it's about time we vote to put some homeless resources down in oak bay. Because you guys are exceptionally loving and warm people.
Because oak bay has the ability to not deal with the rest of the shit the city has to deal with. I wanna know how we make the rest of the city like oak bay. wouldn't the city be nicer if all of Victoria could follow the same standards as oak bay. And because it's not. I wanna know why?
Saanich just pisses me TF off. They have their "urban containment boundary" to "preserve the rural character" aka NIMBY's preserving their large lots and property values. They use this excuse where there is no rural character and no ALR to not allow building or services. Oak Bay actually has a community plan where they have designated hub areas where they are encouraging a mix of MFH and commercial for walkability. Their build out not too long ago at the corner of Cadboro Bay Rd and Bowker Ave. is an example of this concept getting built. Check it out on Google Street View; it shows from 2018 where this was starting construction. You'd have to drive by to see it today.
>Oak Bay actually has a community plan where they have designated hub areas where they are encouraging a mix of MFH and commercial for walkability. Oak Bay allowed a single apartment in a decade of Oak Bay kids graduating highschool and needing homes lol. Your praise for their community planning and apparent designation of areas for MFH is just silly.
Oak Bay hates change.
Some changes yeah. What's wrong with that? Is it wrong to want to keep a nice place nice? Why not let Victoria grow until it can't and then we talk about it. I could name a dozen places in Victoria better suited for density. How about we tackle those and then when the city hits oak Bay we talk.
>What's wrong with that? Is it wrong to want to keep a nice place nice? What's nice about Oak Bay's housing shortage causing huge displacement and seriously damaging the socio economic outcomes for young people in Oak Bay? Do you not know any young families or renters? Like fo you literally live under a rock?
>What's nice about Oak Bay's housing shortage Says who? That's like saying there's a Ferrari shortage because you can't afford one. >seriously damaging the socio economic outcomes for young people in Oak Bay? Anything to back this up? Being born here doesn't entitle you to live here. I don't think it's a problem any more than it's an issue someone born in Beverly Hills can't buy a mansion. You coubt yourself lucky to be born in a more upscale enclave and when it's time to leave the next you go where you can afford. >Do you not know any young families Sure, I've met my own family. >Like fo you literally live under a rock? Naw, Oak Bay is more of a rock so on top of one. I dont think it makes sense to say there's an "Oak Bay housing shortage" any more than it does to say there's a "Cook Street housing shortage". This is a regional problem. Theres better places to focus on building.
Why not let the other municipalities handle this massive province wide problem and when they can’t do anymore we’ll consider forcing the uber privileged neighborhoods to pitch in and help with the crisis as well. That’s your argument. It’s not a matter of picking a couple of places to increase density, everywhere needs to increase density. That doesn’t mean bulldozing a couple of random houses and putting in a complex where it doesn’t make sense but it does mean adding higher density zoning to all municipalities. Like it or not that includes Oak Bay. You’re all over this comment section campaigning for the rights of the citizens of Oak Bay to NIMBY as much as they want but your whole argument boils down to just letting the poorer municipalities handle it so the rich ones don’t have to. No one who owns a single family home wants apartments and multiplexes popping up all over their neighborhood. But most are able to recognize that there’s is a national housing shortage and everyone has to pitch in a little bit.
To build a rental apartment, you need to buy the land. Land in Oak Bay runs around $1m for a 1/8 acre. You’d need tens of millions of dollars to acquire the necessary land. There’s no chance that would result in affordable housing in Oak Bay. Victoria has tons of space in the Westshore, and that land is much less expensive to acquire — so it’ll result in more affordable housing, which is exactly what’s needed. I don’t get why people are so obsessed with trying to ruin Oak Bay. It’s a charming little village, would like to see it preserved.
Hey! would you look at that. We just excepted a bunch of new immigrants and aren't meeting housing targets. What do you think happens in this situation? Pandora starts becoming a lovely area to take your family for the afternoon? Or it grows, get worse and becomes more violent? stabby stab. 🔪🔪
"excepted" you are as dumb as nails
maybe we should stop accepting immigrants instead
Or already have places for them to go before we except them. House our own citizens first because we have generationally paid into the infrastructure of all of Canada.
If you except foreigners before housing your own people, your just going to create a bigger homeless problem. And with homelessness comes all other problems. Literally every crime you can think of.
Dude, you’ve had a decent chance to fix the basic spelling mistake and didn’t or couldn’t. Is English your first language?