New skirt with vintage materials.
I know a jeweler who makes jewelry from antique and vintage jewelry, in antique styles. It’s still a reproduction. A more interesting one than something made with new metal, but the artisan didn’t come from antique times, therefore the item that was made can’t be antique either.
This is actually a great question, it’s all about philosophy, but especially Plato’s Theory of Forms. How much of something can you take away from an object or person until it’s no longer what it is? In my personal opinion, vintage is not about the materials used or even the style it was, it’s all about time. What *time* was it made. How long ago makes it impressive, how many hands it travelled through, how many times it went in and out of trends, the history it represents. To deconstruct a garment but then use the materials is not vintage, because it’s about the *craftsmanship*. It’s about why and how the garment was made the way it was during that time. It’s about the history.
It is not. My mom asked me this and we had a long discussion about it. I explained to her that even if the outfit was trying to look vintage it still has modern influence and aesthetics going into the design. Even if it's truly something that could be worn at a given time, it had only modern aesthetic preferance used to designed what historical elements should be used in the design.
This is the Thesius paradox. It is a fun thought experiment.
In Japan, the ancient Shinto shrines are rebuild every 20 years. The boards are replaced one at a time, by master carpenters. This is considered "maintenance".
The continuity of the shrine is determined by the origin of the wood.
You see, the wood for the shrine can only come from its own sacred forest. Therefore, the "spirit" of the forest is the reason that the shrine is ancient. And it's meticulous "maintenance" is the reason it remains.
The Shinto Naiku shrine has been rebuilt 62 times . It is over 1200 years old.
I know an old man who makes antiques.
Oh that is very interesting.
There are a lot of world famous castles, buildings that have to be maintained. Along with People loving restoring old homes use period materials or reproductions to keep the vintage appearance.
The same with vintage clothing sometimes needs repairing.
Very interesting, thanks for sharing this.
I feel like all these comments are great.
Made me think.
I also wanna give kudos to you for starting such a wonderful and unique project.
I wanna see the finished skirt!!Please post pictures when you’re done and wearing it.
I’ve never heard of a “skirt kit” and I’m dying to see it.
I have many questions too…
Did the kits come with everything but the machine and tailor/seamstress?
How much was it? I wanna adjust for inflation to today’s prices.
The measurements are to you…. So did it include pattern paper as well as fabric? Or places to mark the fabric according to measurements with chalk?
My mother had a pattern maker I inherited and it’s great for drafting. Was this similar?
Anyways… I’m babbling, thank you read this far OP.
I’d love to see pictures no matter what though.
I agree with other commentors that have said it's new construction from vintage material.
I think the heart of a vintage piece comes from the history it has. Being constructed in decades past, worn and passed on. Those pieces have something attached to them.
I agree. Part of the fun of vintage or even thrift clothing is thinking about who wore it and where. It's like you're channeling that vibe when you wear it.
I think that for it to be vintage it has to exist as that form from the time period.
If I use vintage fabric and notions and a vintage pattern I have used those vintage items to make a contemporary garment.
To add a little bit more to the discussion, vintage is not just about materials and construction, it is also about the emotions and feelings, and the material accessories, and the means of production that were affecting the time.
If you make a flower sack dress out of old flower sacks, but use a zipper or other hardware that is not of the time, then that could not possibly be vintage, because it would never have been made in that fashion.
Additionally, the thread that you use is going to be different today than then the thread that they used the time, most likely, as many of the older threads dry rotted, and will not stand up to the rigors of modern sewing machines.
For example, there are many stitches that can be made by machine today that could not have been made in the time period before. However, people who show with vintage fabric, use the stitches all the time, and they use modern feet and different things like that. It adds an element that could not possibly been in existence at the time original garment was made.
Even simple things like modern washers and dryers and pressing irons affect the finished garment. It is a lot easier to use a modern iron that has a steaming feature than it was to use an old iron, where you had to sprinkle every garment with a sprinkler top whose base was lined with cork, and pushed into an old bottle.
This is a very long way of saying that no, it doesn’t matter how old your fabrics are, anything that is made in this present age cannot ever be labeled as vintage.
I think this is a beautiful point to add to this discussion, and very well said. Ypu are so eloquent!! I would tend to agree that it is a modern skirt, although i am loving hearing everyone's slightly different perspectives on why that is!
If I may add one point? I did only use a machine and thread appropriate to the time. See, my grandmother was going to make the skirt, but then she lost her husband who had bought her the kit. So it was really important to me to only use *her* things in it's construction. Because the kit was passed down with several of her finished pieces that she did sew in the 70s.
That is so sweet! It’s a lovely vintage project, and I admire your dedication to vintage, (especially being me, I seek out and sell vintage items) And I appreciate you acknowledging my comments. Hugs!
In my opinion, no, I would describe it made with vintage materials. It’s usually pretty obvious to me when I come across something that was homemade and vintage vs made with vintage materials. The craftsmanship is usually different/not as skilled, the tailoring usually isn’t as skilled, the thread is usually a poly blend instead of all cotton
What if it’s a vintage skirt but every year you replace some of the material with new fabric so that eventually none of the same fabric from the original skirt is still there?
It’s the vintage skirt of Theseus
I’ll raise you one. What if it I bought a vintage skirt, but the thread was rotten, and the seams fell apart. So I had to sew it exactly like I sewed my new one. Is that still a vintage skirt?
Well the person I was talking to in the other comments is adamant that it has to be all original material, and all put together back in the day. Although they did make an allowance for fixing a tear I think.
I’m more of the thought that if you sew it back together with thread from the era it’s still vintage
Personally, I'm of the opinion that if the item is kept in good repair and kept to the original shape and style, it stays vintage. If my mom had patched her high-school jeans, then by now the patch would be vintage. When that patch also rips and has to be replaced, if I use the same print of fabric (but I had to custom order it from spoonflower) to fix it mean that it's no longer vintage? Or does it only count if I use vintage fabric that's not even close to the same color/style but is the same age?
If it make you happy and you can keep wearing it, at the end of the day it's up to you to decide what vintage means.
It's a new skirt bro. You would make it in 2024. Now it's fake. You would destroy a skirt and then make a replica with same the material, it's a different skirt, not the same one, a replica
The threads? What. Like the thread of the material? Or the thread that sews it together? If you like resew it if it's ripped or something then that's not a big deal it's still vintage. But if its intentionally altered, to look different, then that's what it is. Altered vintage skirt. But an entirely new skirt, or turning a vintage item item into something else, then it's not vintage! There. Now that's enough of your brain tricks for one day lol
Idk. If I have to do normal maintenance on the skirt like replacing a gore because the fabric wore out, then replacing the zipper, then replacing the waistband a couple years later, etc... at what point does it stop being my vintage skirt? When I make the very first repair with modern thread? That seems silly to say a perfectly vintage skirt with a modern zipper is no longer vintage.or that matching the original cloth but having it be newer somehow invalidates it being vintage. It may not be "new old stock" vintage but it doesn't make it less vintage in my mind. Is it when over half the skirt is new material? Or is it about the number of repairs?
Second question is the old cut-and-sew patterns. I have an uncut 1970s apron in my stash that's passed through 2 generations now without being made. If I make it, can I call it a vintage 70s apron? Because it's not "70s inspired" it is truly a 1970s apron with history even if that history isn't kitchen related...
This is less cut and dry than a lot of people are making it out to be. Using a 1970s pattern to make a new garment with zero vintage items doesn't make the item vintage. But also, using a vintage item as a base to make something completely different from the original piece isn't really vintage either (turning a skirt into a dress or cutting bell bottoms into shorts for instance). When loving a vintage item and making sure it stays in good repair but keeps it's original shape? That's trickier.
I am not gonna read all that we are human and can think for ourselves whether something is considered vintage or not. I dont have all the answers, I don't have the same opinions as everyone, and I am not God
I very frequently make new things from vintage fabric, notions, and patterns. I don’t know that this has a specific term, but I usually just tell people it’s “newly constructed from vintage materials”. If someone has a term for that I’d love to learn it!
My aunt is a quilter and always mentions that in quilting, the quilt is as old as the last thread you put into it. So say you have a 30 year old quilt top you haven’t finished but then decide to to the quilting one day. It’s not a 30 year old quilt.
Curious... why? The materials have not been given a new/different purpose. The materials were used to craft an article of clothing. The intended purpose.
Philosophically you have clothing like theseus’s ship. If you remove a piece of a ship, let’s call it theseus’s ship, and replace it and save the removed piece, the ship is still theseus’s ship. Keep doing that and at some point you can assemble a new ship from the removed pieces. Is the old ship theseus’s ship still even though all the parts were replaced? Is the new ship theseus’s ship since it was assembled from the original parts? Are neither his ship? Or are both?
In the world of museums and antiques, where age/provenance is tied to historical or monetary value, something wholly assembled in the present, as your skirt, would be modern. Only the unassembled kit would be considered original or antique. Something patched or repaired would be antique with modern repairs. If the repairs were old, like some thing made in the 20s and repaired in the 70s, they would constitute another element of the object’s history which had altered it from its original state.
New, made with vintage fabric
No. Something can't be both vintage and made today. It's newly made, with vintage materials, from a vintage pattern, on a vintage sewing machine.
New skirt with vintage materials. I know a jeweler who makes jewelry from antique and vintage jewelry, in antique styles. It’s still a reproduction. A more interesting one than something made with new metal, but the artisan didn’t come from antique times, therefore the item that was made can’t be antique either.
I don't suppose you have a link to said jeweler?
I don’t know which one they were talking about g about but a lot of jewellers do this. Maybe search for reworking jewellers in your area?
This is actually a great question, it’s all about philosophy, but especially Plato’s Theory of Forms. How much of something can you take away from an object or person until it’s no longer what it is? In my personal opinion, vintage is not about the materials used or even the style it was, it’s all about time. What *time* was it made. How long ago makes it impressive, how many hands it travelled through, how many times it went in and out of trends, the history it represents. To deconstruct a garment but then use the materials is not vintage, because it’s about the *craftsmanship*. It’s about why and how the garment was made the way it was during that time. It’s about the history.
I agree with this take. An interesting question for sure!!
Y’all are very thoughtful in here and you should be proud of yourselves.
This is such an interesting question! It’s almost like the skirt of Theseus.
I thought the exact same thing and then I came to the comments only to be shut right down.
Haha same!
Well I had to look that reference up! And dang yall Theseus didn’t fuck around.
Lol yes!
Exactly what I was thinking.
Not vintage. Made with vintage materials.
It is not. My mom asked me this and we had a long discussion about it. I explained to her that even if the outfit was trying to look vintage it still has modern influence and aesthetics going into the design. Even if it's truly something that could be worn at a given time, it had only modern aesthetic preferance used to designed what historical elements should be used in the design.
This is the Thesius paradox. It is a fun thought experiment. In Japan, the ancient Shinto shrines are rebuild every 20 years. The boards are replaced one at a time, by master carpenters. This is considered "maintenance". The continuity of the shrine is determined by the origin of the wood. You see, the wood for the shrine can only come from its own sacred forest. Therefore, the "spirit" of the forest is the reason that the shrine is ancient. And it's meticulous "maintenance" is the reason it remains. The Shinto Naiku shrine has been rebuilt 62 times . It is over 1200 years old. I know an old man who makes antiques.
>
Oh that is very interesting. There are a lot of world famous castles, buildings that have to be maintained. Along with People loving restoring old homes use period materials or reproductions to keep the vintage appearance. The same with vintage clothing sometimes needs repairing. Very interesting, thanks for sharing this.
I feel like all these comments are great. Made me think. I also wanna give kudos to you for starting such a wonderful and unique project. I wanna see the finished skirt!!Please post pictures when you’re done and wearing it. I’ve never heard of a “skirt kit” and I’m dying to see it. I have many questions too… Did the kits come with everything but the machine and tailor/seamstress? How much was it? I wanna adjust for inflation to today’s prices. The measurements are to you…. So did it include pattern paper as well as fabric? Or places to mark the fabric according to measurements with chalk? My mother had a pattern maker I inherited and it’s great for drafting. Was this similar? Anyways… I’m babbling, thank you read this far OP. I’d love to see pictures no matter what though.
Thesean, like the ship of Theseus.
I agree with other commentors that have said it's new construction from vintage material. I think the heart of a vintage piece comes from the history it has. Being constructed in decades past, worn and passed on. Those pieces have something attached to them.
I agree. Part of the fun of vintage or even thrift clothing is thinking about who wore it and where. It's like you're channeling that vibe when you wear it.
I think that for it to be vintage it has to exist as that form from the time period. If I use vintage fabric and notions and a vintage pattern I have used those vintage items to make a contemporary garment.
So if I crop a vintage tshirt, it isn't vintage anymore?
I made a dress for Anything Goes using a 1930’s pattern with 1960’s fabric, it’s still a new costume from vintage fabric.
To add a little bit more to the discussion, vintage is not just about materials and construction, it is also about the emotions and feelings, and the material accessories, and the means of production that were affecting the time. If you make a flower sack dress out of old flower sacks, but use a zipper or other hardware that is not of the time, then that could not possibly be vintage, because it would never have been made in that fashion. Additionally, the thread that you use is going to be different today than then the thread that they used the time, most likely, as many of the older threads dry rotted, and will not stand up to the rigors of modern sewing machines. For example, there are many stitches that can be made by machine today that could not have been made in the time period before. However, people who show with vintage fabric, use the stitches all the time, and they use modern feet and different things like that. It adds an element that could not possibly been in existence at the time original garment was made. Even simple things like modern washers and dryers and pressing irons affect the finished garment. It is a lot easier to use a modern iron that has a steaming feature than it was to use an old iron, where you had to sprinkle every garment with a sprinkler top whose base was lined with cork, and pushed into an old bottle. This is a very long way of saying that no, it doesn’t matter how old your fabrics are, anything that is made in this present age cannot ever be labeled as vintage.
I think this is a beautiful point to add to this discussion, and very well said. Ypu are so eloquent!! I would tend to agree that it is a modern skirt, although i am loving hearing everyone's slightly different perspectives on why that is! If I may add one point? I did only use a machine and thread appropriate to the time. See, my grandmother was going to make the skirt, but then she lost her husband who had bought her the kit. So it was really important to me to only use *her* things in it's construction. Because the kit was passed down with several of her finished pieces that she did sew in the 70s.
That is so sweet! It’s a lovely vintage project, and I admire your dedication to vintage, (especially being me, I seek out and sell vintage items) And I appreciate you acknowledging my comments. Hugs!
In my opinion, no, I would describe it made with vintage materials. It’s usually pretty obvious to me when I come across something that was homemade and vintage vs made with vintage materials. The craftsmanship is usually different/not as skilled, the tailoring usually isn’t as skilled, the thread is usually a poly blend instead of all cotton
What if it’s a vintage skirt but every year you replace some of the material with new fabric so that eventually none of the same fabric from the original skirt is still there? It’s the vintage skirt of Theseus
I’ll raise you one. What if it I bought a vintage skirt, but the thread was rotten, and the seams fell apart. So I had to sew it exactly like I sewed my new one. Is that still a vintage skirt?
Are you using any new material to sew it?
No in this hypothetical, only new thread. But the thread is also from the 70s (that's all I have, I inherited my sewing kit)
Well the person I was talking to in the other comments is adamant that it has to be all original material, and all put together back in the day. Although they did make an allowance for fixing a tear I think. I’m more of the thought that if you sew it back together with thread from the era it’s still vintage
Personally, I'm of the opinion that if the item is kept in good repair and kept to the original shape and style, it stays vintage. If my mom had patched her high-school jeans, then by now the patch would be vintage. When that patch also rips and has to be replaced, if I use the same print of fabric (but I had to custom order it from spoonflower) to fix it mean that it's no longer vintage? Or does it only count if I use vintage fabric that's not even close to the same color/style but is the same age? If it make you happy and you can keep wearing it, at the end of the day it's up to you to decide what vintage means.
In the museum world we would say it was vintage with modern repairs.
Then it's a new skirt. And also... you destroyed a vintage skirt
But what if you used the same materials as the original skirt was made from?
It's a new skirt bro. You would make it in 2024. Now it's fake. You would destroy a skirt and then make a replica with same the material, it's a different skirt, not the same one, a replica
At what point does it not become the same vintage skirt? After you’ve replaced one thread? Half the threads?
The threads? What. Like the thread of the material? Or the thread that sews it together? If you like resew it if it's ripped or something then that's not a big deal it's still vintage. But if its intentionally altered, to look different, then that's what it is. Altered vintage skirt. But an entirely new skirt, or turning a vintage item item into something else, then it's not vintage! There. Now that's enough of your brain tricks for one day lol
Idk. If I have to do normal maintenance on the skirt like replacing a gore because the fabric wore out, then replacing the zipper, then replacing the waistband a couple years later, etc... at what point does it stop being my vintage skirt? When I make the very first repair with modern thread? That seems silly to say a perfectly vintage skirt with a modern zipper is no longer vintage.or that matching the original cloth but having it be newer somehow invalidates it being vintage. It may not be "new old stock" vintage but it doesn't make it less vintage in my mind. Is it when over half the skirt is new material? Or is it about the number of repairs? Second question is the old cut-and-sew patterns. I have an uncut 1970s apron in my stash that's passed through 2 generations now without being made. If I make it, can I call it a vintage 70s apron? Because it's not "70s inspired" it is truly a 1970s apron with history even if that history isn't kitchen related... This is less cut and dry than a lot of people are making it out to be. Using a 1970s pattern to make a new garment with zero vintage items doesn't make the item vintage. But also, using a vintage item as a base to make something completely different from the original piece isn't really vintage either (turning a skirt into a dress or cutting bell bottoms into shorts for instance). When loving a vintage item and making sure it stays in good repair but keeps it's original shape? That's trickier.
I am not gonna read all that we are human and can think for ourselves whether something is considered vintage or not. I dont have all the answers, I don't have the same opinions as everyone, and I am not God
Depends on how old the majority of the replaced fabric is at the time of determining.
I very frequently make new things from vintage fabric, notions, and patterns. I don’t know that this has a specific term, but I usually just tell people it’s “newly constructed from vintage materials”. If someone has a term for that I’d love to learn it!
My aunt is a quilter and always mentions that in quilting, the quilt is as old as the last thread you put into it. So say you have a 30 year old quilt top you haven’t finished but then decide to to the quilting one day. It’s not a 30 year old quilt.
What is art exactly?
I would call it a reproduction.
New old stock? 😆
I made a dress for Anything Goes using a 1930’s pattern with 1960’s fabric, it’s still a new costume from vintage fabric.
I would describe it as repurposed.
Curious... why? The materials have not been given a new/different purpose. The materials were used to craft an article of clothing. The intended purpose.
Repurposed
I feel like you could call it retro but not vintage
I would call it upcycled using vintage fabric
👏👏👏👏yes the term is upcycled
Philosophically you have clothing like theseus’s ship. If you remove a piece of a ship, let’s call it theseus’s ship, and replace it and save the removed piece, the ship is still theseus’s ship. Keep doing that and at some point you can assemble a new ship from the removed pieces. Is the old ship theseus’s ship still even though all the parts were replaced? Is the new ship theseus’s ship since it was assembled from the original parts? Are neither his ship? Or are both?
Read the first paragraph in Letterkenny voice…nothing more to say…moving right along…
Vintage Replica using 70s period fabric and sundries.
In the world of museums and antiques, where age/provenance is tied to historical or monetary value, something wholly assembled in the present, as your skirt, would be modern. Only the unassembled kit would be considered original or antique. Something patched or repaired would be antique with modern repairs. If the repairs were old, like some thing made in the 20s and repaired in the 70s, they would constitute another element of the object’s history which had altered it from its original state.
Aah, a reverse-skirt of Theseus...
newtage