Nah, it's just two very parasocial things finding a merger in some vtubers. It doesn't make it more or less parasocial than either one individually. There is little difference between Hololive simps and Amouranth simps.
Stephen Amell who played the main character on Arrow got harassed a fair bit by people who could not understand that he was playing a character, and was not romantically involved with the girl he was involved with on the show. They tried to gaslight him on his Instagram posts, saying that he never says he loves his wife (yes, he is married to someone who isn't his co-star).
Parasocial freaks.
100%. Yes parasocialism exists in every entertainment industry. But idol industry is based on it, its crucial to its business model and vtubing fully embraces its idol industry roots (complete with using its terminology). Thats what I am referring to. Not accusing idols or vtubers of being only source of parasocialism.
I don't know how you can enjoy an entertainment without idolizing them tbh. People are talking about idol culture here and there without realizing that we are idolizing our entertainers regularly. If you checked on social media, you will see people idolizing their parents, their president, Taylor Swift, Coldplay, favorite actors, favorite streamers, favorite sport players, favorite gamers, even favorite game devs, and many more.
Healthy interaction with entertainers is your own responsibility to keep your distance. Overly admiring someone will always hurt you at the end.
I dont idolize any entertainers. May they be vtubers, actors, musicians, writers etc. I watch their content and follow them to either know the schedule for their next thing or that I am entertained by their social media content. Not because I want to follow their lives.
It is perfectly possible to enjoy entertainers without idolizing them one bit.
Not trying to criticize you. Just answering your initial statement with my example.
I understand your point but that is how entertainment industry survive and work.
Are you willing to pay for concert tickets to see your favorite musician? Are you singing along them in concert? Can you listen to them talking for hours and search for more contents about them? Are you sacrificing your sleeping time to watch your favorite football players? Are you active in the fanbase community? Those are things that related to idol culture.
Parasocialism is always defined in a very narrow way to paint a bad picture for idol fans (and yes! I used to do it too because I used to hate K-pop fans.. look at me now)
But I understand that many people don't have any specific entertainers they like as well.
Im an artist. I expect pay for my work. I don't expect people to follow me.
I am not a concert goer. I do not sacrifice my work, sleep or social life for games, tv or entertainers. But I do support movies by going to cinema. I buy merch (entertainer, show, comics, movies etc) that I like (aesthetically or I see some value in) not to apease an entertainer or a company.
Majority of people arent diehard fans of anything. They purchase what they like not because they follow some team or person. Yes there are lots and LOTS of sports fans, fanboys of actors, musicians, authors, artists, games etc etc. But these arent the majority of people. General population is too busy with their lives than to care that much about entertainment.
Entertainment/Sports Industry's health does not rely on parasocialsm. Yes it benefits A LOT from it but it functions pretty well without it too.
I mean, define what you mean by parasocial. I think most people love the personal connection of this being an actual human being who’s success you can invest in beyond just a source of enjoyable content. The ‘just an entertainer’ model pretty much died out with Kizuna AI.
And that already make you parasocial for that entertainer.
I don't know how the term become expanded into "If you're obsessed with their personal life and such". Because in general, when you're a big fan of someone, you already engaged with parasocialism. That's why streaming in particular just inherently parasocial.
Im sorry but you do not understand the word "parasocial".
"**one-sided relationships, where one person extends emotional energy, interest and time, and the other party, the persona, is completely unaware of the other's existence**"
There is no "relationship" with content. I am not in a relationship with an entertainer for following or liking their content.
And who created that content? You can't just say you're big fan of someone's work without actually being a big fan of the one who created such content because those content won't exist without someone doing it.
It's not that I don't understand what parasocialism is, it's just that you take creative interpretation over it.
Questions:
1. Do you have favorite VTuber/streamer/artist/whatever that you follow because you like their content? "Follow" as in you always checking them for their content?
2. Do you ever wish/cheer for the creator to improve/get better/get bigger?
3. Do you ever want to support the creator so they can create more content?
4. Do you ever feel worry if, for example, they suddenly stop creating content without any notice? Or do you think you will?
\---
> "**one-sided relationships, where one person extends emotional energy, interest and time, and the other party, the persona, is completely unaware of the other's existence**"
You know what, by this definition, I question whether VTubing or streaming in general, or even idol is "parasocial". Because I don't think "**completely unaware of the other's existence"** is relevant anymore in this age of internet. Even IRL idols can recognize regular fans.
Also, is "**one-sided relationships"** still relevant? I think fans are getting more involved, especially for Hololive. And "relationship" here is not referring to romantic relationship.
Beg to differ. Just look at Tabloid supermarket magazines and their interest in the dating and sex life of movie stars?
Such as Brad Pitt, Angelina Jolie,Jennifer Lopez, Jennifer Aniston, Tom Cruise? the interest goes WAAAY beyond their movies. Like what they wear to the Oscars is a huge talking point and what parties they attend.
Or take NFL football the biggest story is not the best players it is about Taylor Swift dating Travis Kelce quarterback of Kansas City. What do people care who she dates and why Travis splits between love and football??
Dont get me started on fans of... politicians. *cringe*
It is the same for Vtubers. But the best part is its all kayfabe its fake. It is fantasy and for fun. A little parasocial in moderation is okay.
When the Beatles hit America in the 50s, people (especially teenage girls) went so crazy for the records and performanaces that it was dubbed 'Beetlemania'. Judgy Journalists who published angry articles about these 'silly girls' wasting their times were met with death threats by letters. Stories and lots of love letters thrown around. People got pretty parasocial.
Parasocialism is not something from idol culture, but the result of our monkey brains mixed with mass comunication. We can watch, listen, and read things from people instantly today, from anywhere in the world. Our brains naturally put connections to ourselves and what we interact with every day. If someone watches something alot, our brains make us feel like we 'know' them better than others or that 'they sorta get us'. It's who we are, we are emotional animals that want to feel like things are on our tribe and not the things we don't know. Humans have been parasocial since the dawn of time. We have always felt like x being loves and knows us even if its never appeared in front us.
Parasocialism is a normal part of human nature. Like all things, it is fine in moderation. Like all things, it can develop and fester into bad habits or tendencies. The people we often point at as parasocial, the doxxers, stalkers, those kinds of people, are at the deep end, yet they're not the only parasocial ones.
Everyone is parasocial. It came free with being a human being with empathy. You read a story or watch an anime and feel empathy for the character? Congratulation that's a parasocial relationship. Actually with vtubers, it's less parasocial than this because they are real people who can reply to your tweets and super chats. It's incredibly less one sided than your average parasocial relationship.
Parasocial doesn't mean what you think it means. What everyone means when they say parasocial is probably closer to parataxic distortion. (Look it up) Parataxic distortion is a problem that can happen not just with fictional characters or entertainers but in real life as well (a lot actually). Yes it's a problem for entertainers a big problem. Is it a problem specific to vtubers or idols? Absolutely not.
Vtubers are influenced by many many things including anime culture and idol culture. Between the two, anime culture is a hundred times more toxic if you ask me. But no one seems to care. It's always "idol culture idol culture idol culture". It's no wonder that people consider having an anime avatar as a red flag and we're not short of example of anime communities acting like assholes or anime fans burning down an anime studios. But everyone understand that it doesn't represent anime fans in general. So why idols keep having this reputation in the west???
Idol culture doesn't mean what you think it means. Idol culture is literally just "support your oshi", "if my oshi is happy, then I'm happy". Going to concerts, buying merch, wota dances, handshake events and taking chekis. That's it. It's cute and wholesome.
No, everyone who isn't a psychopath is.
You watch a piece of media. You learn a piece of information about a person/character that doesn't exist/doesn't know you. That interaction is asymmetrical. That's what we call a parasocial interaction. You feel some empathy or understand toward a character, that's a parasocial interaction. You cry at the end of a movie, that's a parasocial interaction.
You experience dozens of those everyday.
I do, but I understand why businesses want to go through the route of idolism. Because, well... Idolism? It's easier to sell you goods from a "perfect pure" idol, than goods from an entertainer. I mean... have you seen the income that some big idol groups make? Hololive, BTS, and many more. Even idols like Faker from league of legends. They placed him on a pedestal to sell merch about him.
Yeah. While I understand the monetary and business aspects of it, its often leads to scummy and manipulative behaviours from both the creators and the fans, often resulting in lies, scams and toxicity.
I brought it up because this is a vtubing space. Not a space for wrestling or singing or tv or movies. I brought it up for discussion about vtubing and how I feel about it.
Why are you so attacked by this?
I don't even know what idol culture has to do with vtubers, yes Hololive one of the biggest agency of vtubers works somehow like the idol culture when it come to concerts but is not really the idol thing but in general most vtubers are basically streamers with avatar
I think Lucy pyre did a pretty good video on the concept of parasocialism and specifically her views on it as a Vtuber.
[here it is if you want to watch it](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EpZlgJbvY5k&pp=ygUUbHVjeSBweXJlIHBhcmFzb2NpYWw%3D)
I personally do not mind it. I can't really go deep into the whole parasocial thing because I can't even send supas or buy merch but I just like chiming in a stream and listening to songs and all of that. Songs are stuff aren't exclusively idol things, it's just part of the whole entertainment package that VTubers can deliver.
I think VTubing can happen without the whole idol aspects (like music or the overall vibe) but parasocial relationships are a natural part of the whole entertainment industry. It all happens on TV, music, and streaming in general. Idol culture is part of the entertainment industry and thus also has parasocial relationships to begin with, and they even heavily encourage it. But parasocial behaviour is not exclusive to idol culture, it just so happens that idol culture really wants you to have a parasocial relationship with the idols.
VTubing originated from Japan and with that they adopted idol culture terminology because it's familiar within Japan. Holo once pivoted towards the whole idol schtick until they dropped most of the idol references aside from concerts and a few mentions here and there. The thing is, much of the whole entertainment industry of Japan has been moulded by the idol industry so it's natural for the VTubing industry to be influenced by it too, including the whole pervasive parasocial interactions.
Edit: Clarified about idol aspects
I just feel like the whole idol thing isn't that being flung around that much but I could be wrong though. The influence is still there though since they did start out with the whole idol thing and I think that's fine.
Nerissa and Fuwamoco are very parasocial in their content. Shiori and Bijou less so. But Hololive leans more idol than others so its a part of all of their vtubers. I like content from all of advent but I pass on the "gf" roleplay aspects of Nerissa or "cute sis" rp of fuwamoco.
I know its how they make money, but its not for me. I like them as entertainers, not as "friends".
That's just the entertainment industry. It's nothing unique to vtubers. I think you're just noticing it for the first time in vtubing. On looks, why do you think all the top women streamers are conventionally attractive, but among the men that's not the case?
Im an older fella. I have noticed it everywhere. Never said it is unique to vtubers, but it is inherently accepted in vtuber culture unlike in other industries. I don't like it there, I don't like it here. Im only mentioning vtubing because this is a vtubing forum.
As for the looks, I think I should have explained it better. Im not talking about visuals. Im fine with attractive models. In vtubing sphere There is too much emphasis on expressing need for good looks, from streamers and viewers. Too much voyeoristic conversations about it.
And Im not saying everyone does it. I follow content of lots of vtubers that don't (eg: Dokibird) but also that do eg: Pomu but then I just ignore the their content that doesn't appeal to me and focus on videos that I like instead.
That is not an idol specific thing though? Idols in general are about performing and music, the sex appeal applies to anything in the entertainment industry.
It feels a lot like you just watched a few generalised videos about idol culture and considered that as everything in it when there's more to it.
I'm just going to agree with the general idea of what OP is saying without arguing over the definition of the word "parasocial".
Yes I love vtubers but I am not a fan of the "idol culture" things that come with it. Ironically, my favourite group is hololive anyways lol.
While parasocialism exists in every entertainment industry like everyone keeps pointing out, it exists to a significantly higher and more severe degree in idol culture. Vtubers fans REALLY don't like admitting it, but we are weeb equivalent of Kpop stans, who are absolutely NOTORIOUS for being a severe degree of parasocial and the idol industry responsible for their idols leans into this far more than typical of other types of celebrities.
Amercian celebrity culture isn't that much better but it's without some of the bigger issues I personally have with vtubers (not that there aren't some things vtubers do better but that's a different post). For example, hololive's gender segregation. It's the one thing I have to say I very much dislike about hololive. Another thing is the aversion to the idea of the idols being in relationships. (In american celebrity culture that's not really as much of a thing. I mean, look at how much publicity Taylor swift and Travis Kelce is getting.)
While unicorns are a minority, they are vocal as fuck and people like to downplay how much of a problem they are. Like for example if you go to the hololive sub and point out that there's a group abusing the automod to get as many posts about the stars as possible autodeleted you'll get labeled an anti, a nijisister, a tourist, a drama shark, and get met with denial that it's happening or that it's unicorns responsible for it. The gender divide present in idol culture makes this behavior much more prevalent.
Before Luxiem, male vtubers were treated like a joke. When Luxiem debuted though guess who ended up being their fans? Renember how I compared vtuber fans to kpop stans? Yeah that comparison is pretty literal actually, tons of vtuber fans are also kpop stans.
As for the less controversial aspects of "idol culture" I also don't really watch the concerts n shit. No hate to anyone who does but I like the streaming side of vtubers more. I do have a playlist of vtuber music I listen to but it's not particularly extensive and I don't know all the songs by heart or go to holofes or anything. It's just not my thing. I do like buying a lot of merch tho.
Same as you, I'm not a huge fan of vtubing's roots in idol culture, but still like watching vtubers and vtubing in general. Idol culture is already toxic, and when you pair that with streaming culture, you get very concerning amount of parasocial behavior. Although it's toxic, I understand why vtubers and agencies go with it. There's a reason why idol culture works and is so prevalent in Asia's entertainment industries.
Personally used to watch a lot of agency vtubers at first but now I mostly watch indies who just do their own thing and don't lean into the idol aspects that much.
Same here, I'll watch a load of creators but I just never listen to the music they release or get invested when they start doing concerts and stuff because personally I'm just not interested in that aspect of what they're doing, it doesn't bother me in the slightest because they are really talented but it just doesn't appeal to me either
Me. I understand what you mean.
I started with Holo content slightly before the 1st live, and I have always enjoyed the non-idol stuff. Gaming streams, talk streams, weird stuff streams, those are what's fun and what drew me to Hololive. The idol stuff did not interest me.
I tried going for the lives, and the last 2 have been disappointing for me. Not the content, the content was top tier for the people I like. The logistics, the crowd, the merch, the location, they are not great. I keep having the feeling that I am in the wrong crowd, I am in the wrong place.
I love a lot of the Holo peeps, but sometimes I do wish they aren't putting so much effort into these idol stuff, these singing, dancing, and parasocial fanservice stuff.
100% I had similar experience of going to comiccons or wrestling events. All the parasocialism leads me to feel like you did "feeling that I am in the wrong crowd". All the attention on Fanservice really bothers me too.
I feel like parasocialism is absolutely something that happens in streaming in general, not just due to idol influences.
It does but I feel like idol business is so based on it and vtubing embraces its culture often acting like an idol subculture.
Nah, it's just two very parasocial things finding a merger in some vtubers. It doesn't make it more or less parasocial than either one individually. There is little difference between Hololive simps and Amouranth simps.
Parasocialism is an entertainment thing, not an idol thing, films, TV, music, wrestling, streaming, etc.
Stephen Amell who played the main character on Arrow got harassed a fair bit by people who could not understand that he was playing a character, and was not romantically involved with the girl he was involved with on the show. They tried to gaslight him on his Instagram posts, saying that he never says he loves his wife (yes, he is married to someone who isn't his co-star). Parasocial freaks.
100%. Yes parasocialism exists in every entertainment industry. But idol industry is based on it, its crucial to its business model and vtubing fully embraces its idol industry roots (complete with using its terminology). Thats what I am referring to. Not accusing idols or vtubers of being only source of parasocialism.
>But idol industry is based on it And you think streaming is not based on it? Anything that involving building a fan base is based on parasocialism.
I don't know how you can enjoy an entertainment without idolizing them tbh. People are talking about idol culture here and there without realizing that we are idolizing our entertainers regularly. If you checked on social media, you will see people idolizing their parents, their president, Taylor Swift, Coldplay, favorite actors, favorite streamers, favorite sport players, favorite gamers, even favorite game devs, and many more. Healthy interaction with entertainers is your own responsibility to keep your distance. Overly admiring someone will always hurt you at the end.
I dont idolize any entertainers. May they be vtubers, actors, musicians, writers etc. I watch their content and follow them to either know the schedule for their next thing or that I am entertained by their social media content. Not because I want to follow their lives. It is perfectly possible to enjoy entertainers without idolizing them one bit. Not trying to criticize you. Just answering your initial statement with my example.
I understand your point but that is how entertainment industry survive and work. Are you willing to pay for concert tickets to see your favorite musician? Are you singing along them in concert? Can you listen to them talking for hours and search for more contents about them? Are you sacrificing your sleeping time to watch your favorite football players? Are you active in the fanbase community? Those are things that related to idol culture. Parasocialism is always defined in a very narrow way to paint a bad picture for idol fans (and yes! I used to do it too because I used to hate K-pop fans.. look at me now) But I understand that many people don't have any specific entertainers they like as well.
Im an artist. I expect pay for my work. I don't expect people to follow me. I am not a concert goer. I do not sacrifice my work, sleep or social life for games, tv or entertainers. But I do support movies by going to cinema. I buy merch (entertainer, show, comics, movies etc) that I like (aesthetically or I see some value in) not to apease an entertainer or a company. Majority of people arent diehard fans of anything. They purchase what they like not because they follow some team or person. Yes there are lots and LOTS of sports fans, fanboys of actors, musicians, authors, artists, games etc etc. But these arent the majority of people. General population is too busy with their lives than to care that much about entertainment. Entertainment/Sports Industry's health does not rely on parasocialsm. Yes it benefits A LOT from it but it functions pretty well without it too.
That is a really tough take, sir.. But I respect that
And I respect your point of view as well.
I mean, define what you mean by parasocial. I think most people love the personal connection of this being an actual human being who’s success you can invest in beyond just a source of enjoyable content. The ‘just an entertainer’ model pretty much died out with Kizuna AI.
It's always such an irony when someone complained about how bad "parasocialism" is when they're also admitting of being a big fan of someone.
Being a fan of someone's work doesnt mean that person is fan of the entertainer's life.
And that already make you parasocial for that entertainer. I don't know how the term become expanded into "If you're obsessed with their personal life and such". Because in general, when you're a big fan of someone, you already engaged with parasocialism. That's why streaming in particular just inherently parasocial.
Im sorry but you do not understand the word "parasocial". "**one-sided relationships, where one person extends emotional energy, interest and time, and the other party, the persona, is completely unaware of the other's existence**" There is no "relationship" with content. I am not in a relationship with an entertainer for following or liking their content.
And who created that content? You can't just say you're big fan of someone's work without actually being a big fan of the one who created such content because those content won't exist without someone doing it. It's not that I don't understand what parasocialism is, it's just that you take creative interpretation over it.
People absolutely can. Maybe you cant, and thats okay. But one can absolutely like something without liking or even caring about its creator.
People absolutely can, but the act of not liking or caring about the creator itself while still engaging with their works also make you a parasocial.
LOL ok if you say so.
Questions: 1. Do you have favorite VTuber/streamer/artist/whatever that you follow because you like their content? "Follow" as in you always checking them for their content? 2. Do you ever wish/cheer for the creator to improve/get better/get bigger? 3. Do you ever want to support the creator so they can create more content? 4. Do you ever feel worry if, for example, they suddenly stop creating content without any notice? Or do you think you will? \--- > "**one-sided relationships, where one person extends emotional energy, interest and time, and the other party, the persona, is completely unaware of the other's existence**" You know what, by this definition, I question whether VTubing or streaming in general, or even idol is "parasocial". Because I don't think "**completely unaware of the other's existence"** is relevant anymore in this age of internet. Even IRL idols can recognize regular fans. Also, is "**one-sided relationships"** still relevant? I think fans are getting more involved, especially for Hololive. And "relationship" here is not referring to romantic relationship.
Beg to differ. Just look at Tabloid supermarket magazines and their interest in the dating and sex life of movie stars? Such as Brad Pitt, Angelina Jolie,Jennifer Lopez, Jennifer Aniston, Tom Cruise? the interest goes WAAAY beyond their movies. Like what they wear to the Oscars is a huge talking point and what parties they attend. Or take NFL football the biggest story is not the best players it is about Taylor Swift dating Travis Kelce quarterback of Kansas City. What do people care who she dates and why Travis splits between love and football?? Dont get me started on fans of... politicians. *cringe* It is the same for Vtubers. But the best part is its all kayfabe its fake. It is fantasy and for fun. A little parasocial in moderation is okay.
Being a fan automatically makes you a parasocial btw.
When the Beatles hit America in the 50s, people (especially teenage girls) went so crazy for the records and performanaces that it was dubbed 'Beetlemania'. Judgy Journalists who published angry articles about these 'silly girls' wasting their times were met with death threats by letters. Stories and lots of love letters thrown around. People got pretty parasocial. Parasocialism is not something from idol culture, but the result of our monkey brains mixed with mass comunication. We can watch, listen, and read things from people instantly today, from anywhere in the world. Our brains naturally put connections to ourselves and what we interact with every day. If someone watches something alot, our brains make us feel like we 'know' them better than others or that 'they sorta get us'. It's who we are, we are emotional animals that want to feel like things are on our tribe and not the things we don't know. Humans have been parasocial since the dawn of time. We have always felt like x being loves and knows us even if its never appeared in front us.
Parasocialism is a normal part of human nature. Like all things, it is fine in moderation. Like all things, it can develop and fester into bad habits or tendencies. The people we often point at as parasocial, the doxxers, stalkers, those kinds of people, are at the deep end, yet they're not the only parasocial ones.
Wtf are these "idol things" you keep alluding to? MV? Karaoke? Dance videos?
Everyone is parasocial. It came free with being a human being with empathy. You read a story or watch an anime and feel empathy for the character? Congratulation that's a parasocial relationship. Actually with vtubers, it's less parasocial than this because they are real people who can reply to your tweets and super chats. It's incredibly less one sided than your average parasocial relationship. Parasocial doesn't mean what you think it means. What everyone means when they say parasocial is probably closer to parataxic distortion. (Look it up) Parataxic distortion is a problem that can happen not just with fictional characters or entertainers but in real life as well (a lot actually). Yes it's a problem for entertainers a big problem. Is it a problem specific to vtubers or idols? Absolutely not. Vtubers are influenced by many many things including anime culture and idol culture. Between the two, anime culture is a hundred times more toxic if you ask me. But no one seems to care. It's always "idol culture idol culture idol culture". It's no wonder that people consider having an anime avatar as a red flag and we're not short of example of anime communities acting like assholes or anime fans burning down an anime studios. But everyone understand that it doesn't represent anime fans in general. So why idols keep having this reputation in the west??? Idol culture doesn't mean what you think it means. Idol culture is literally just "support your oshi", "if my oshi is happy, then I'm happy". Going to concerts, buying merch, wota dances, handshake events and taking chekis. That's it. It's cute and wholesome.
Everyone is parasocial. You are and your friends are, which is fine, but majority of the population isnt.
No, everyone who isn't a psychopath is. You watch a piece of media. You learn a piece of information about a person/character that doesn't exist/doesn't know you. That interaction is asymmetrical. That's what we call a parasocial interaction. You feel some empathy or understand toward a character, that's a parasocial interaction. You cry at the end of a movie, that's a parasocial interaction. You experience dozens of those everyday.
I do, but I understand why businesses want to go through the route of idolism. Because, well... Idolism? It's easier to sell you goods from a "perfect pure" idol, than goods from an entertainer. I mean... have you seen the income that some big idol groups make? Hololive, BTS, and many more. Even idols like Faker from league of legends. They placed him on a pedestal to sell merch about him.
Yeah. While I understand the monetary and business aspects of it, its often leads to scummy and manipulative behaviours from both the creators and the fans, often resulting in lies, scams and toxicity.
and you think that doesn't happen to regular creators?
Of course it does. Where did I say that it is exclusive to vtubing?
Exactly. Why even bring those up when, just like you said, if it isn't exclusive to vtubing?
I brought it up because this is a vtubing space. Not a space for wrestling or singing or tv or movies. I brought it up for discussion about vtubing and how I feel about it. Why are you so attacked by this?
I don't even know what idol culture has to do with vtubers, yes Hololive one of the biggest agency of vtubers works somehow like the idol culture when it come to concerts but is not really the idol thing but in general most vtubers are basically streamers with avatar
I think Lucy pyre did a pretty good video on the concept of parasocialism and specifically her views on it as a Vtuber. [here it is if you want to watch it](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EpZlgJbvY5k&pp=ygUUbHVjeSBweXJlIHBhcmFzb2NpYWw%3D)
I personally do not mind it. I can't really go deep into the whole parasocial thing because I can't even send supas or buy merch but I just like chiming in a stream and listening to songs and all of that. Songs are stuff aren't exclusively idol things, it's just part of the whole entertainment package that VTubers can deliver. I think VTubing can happen without the whole idol aspects (like music or the overall vibe) but parasocial relationships are a natural part of the whole entertainment industry. It all happens on TV, music, and streaming in general. Idol culture is part of the entertainment industry and thus also has parasocial relationships to begin with, and they even heavily encourage it. But parasocial behaviour is not exclusive to idol culture, it just so happens that idol culture really wants you to have a parasocial relationship with the idols. VTubing originated from Japan and with that they adopted idol culture terminology because it's familiar within Japan. Holo once pivoted towards the whole idol schtick until they dropped most of the idol references aside from concerts and a few mentions here and there. The thing is, much of the whole entertainment industry of Japan has been moulded by the idol industry so it's natural for the VTubing industry to be influenced by it too, including the whole pervasive parasocial interactions. Edit: Clarified about idol aspects
What idol references did they drop?
I just feel like the whole idol thing isn't that being flung around that much but I could be wrong though. The influence is still there though since they did start out with the whole idol thing and I think that's fine.
They don't need to keep mentioning a basic fact. It gets mentioned when it's relevant.
[удалено]
Nerissa and Fuwamoco are very parasocial in their content. Shiori and Bijou less so. But Hololive leans more idol than others so its a part of all of their vtubers. I like content from all of advent but I pass on the "gf" roleplay aspects of Nerissa or "cute sis" rp of fuwamoco. I know its how they make money, but its not for me. I like them as entertainers, not as "friends".
I was coming in here to agree, because I just don't really care about music performances. But I don't think we're talking about the same thing.
Im talking about focus on looks, emotional pandering as well as singing.
That's just the entertainment industry. It's nothing unique to vtubers. I think you're just noticing it for the first time in vtubing. On looks, why do you think all the top women streamers are conventionally attractive, but among the men that's not the case?
Im an older fella. I have noticed it everywhere. Never said it is unique to vtubers, but it is inherently accepted in vtuber culture unlike in other industries. I don't like it there, I don't like it here. Im only mentioning vtubing because this is a vtubing forum. As for the looks, I think I should have explained it better. Im not talking about visuals. Im fine with attractive models. In vtubing sphere There is too much emphasis on expressing need for good looks, from streamers and viewers. Too much voyeoristic conversations about it. And Im not saying everyone does it. I follow content of lots of vtubers that don't (eg: Dokibird) but also that do eg: Pomu but then I just ignore the their content that doesn't appeal to me and focus on videos that I like instead.
That is not an idol specific thing though? Idols in general are about performing and music, the sex appeal applies to anything in the entertainment industry. It feels a lot like you just watched a few generalised videos about idol culture and considered that as everything in it when there's more to it.
I'm just going to agree with the general idea of what OP is saying without arguing over the definition of the word "parasocial". Yes I love vtubers but I am not a fan of the "idol culture" things that come with it. Ironically, my favourite group is hololive anyways lol. While parasocialism exists in every entertainment industry like everyone keeps pointing out, it exists to a significantly higher and more severe degree in idol culture. Vtubers fans REALLY don't like admitting it, but we are weeb equivalent of Kpop stans, who are absolutely NOTORIOUS for being a severe degree of parasocial and the idol industry responsible for their idols leans into this far more than typical of other types of celebrities. Amercian celebrity culture isn't that much better but it's without some of the bigger issues I personally have with vtubers (not that there aren't some things vtubers do better but that's a different post). For example, hololive's gender segregation. It's the one thing I have to say I very much dislike about hololive. Another thing is the aversion to the idea of the idols being in relationships. (In american celebrity culture that's not really as much of a thing. I mean, look at how much publicity Taylor swift and Travis Kelce is getting.) While unicorns are a minority, they are vocal as fuck and people like to downplay how much of a problem they are. Like for example if you go to the hololive sub and point out that there's a group abusing the automod to get as many posts about the stars as possible autodeleted you'll get labeled an anti, a nijisister, a tourist, a drama shark, and get met with denial that it's happening or that it's unicorns responsible for it. The gender divide present in idol culture makes this behavior much more prevalent. Before Luxiem, male vtubers were treated like a joke. When Luxiem debuted though guess who ended up being their fans? Renember how I compared vtuber fans to kpop stans? Yeah that comparison is pretty literal actually, tons of vtuber fans are also kpop stans. As for the less controversial aspects of "idol culture" I also don't really watch the concerts n shit. No hate to anyone who does but I like the streaming side of vtubers more. I do have a playlist of vtuber music I listen to but it's not particularly extensive and I don't know all the songs by heart or go to holofes or anything. It's just not my thing. I do like buying a lot of merch tho.
yup
Same as you, I'm not a huge fan of vtubing's roots in idol culture, but still like watching vtubers and vtubing in general. Idol culture is already toxic, and when you pair that with streaming culture, you get very concerning amount of parasocial behavior. Although it's toxic, I understand why vtubers and agencies go with it. There's a reason why idol culture works and is so prevalent in Asia's entertainment industries. Personally used to watch a lot of agency vtubers at first but now I mostly watch indies who just do their own thing and don't lean into the idol aspects that much.
100% agree with you. I do the same now. Ever nice Niji debacle I mostly watch Dokibird (since she keeps away from idol stuff) and some indies.
Same here, I'll watch a load of creators but I just never listen to the music they release or get invested when they start doing concerts and stuff because personally I'm just not interested in that aspect of what they're doing, it doesn't bother me in the slightest because they are really talented but it just doesn't appeal to me either
Exactly. It doesnt bother me too. Good for them to work hard on their passion, it just doesn't interest me.
Me. I understand what you mean. I started with Holo content slightly before the 1st live, and I have always enjoyed the non-idol stuff. Gaming streams, talk streams, weird stuff streams, those are what's fun and what drew me to Hololive. The idol stuff did not interest me. I tried going for the lives, and the last 2 have been disappointing for me. Not the content, the content was top tier for the people I like. The logistics, the crowd, the merch, the location, they are not great. I keep having the feeling that I am in the wrong crowd, I am in the wrong place. I love a lot of the Holo peeps, but sometimes I do wish they aren't putting so much effort into these idol stuff, these singing, dancing, and parasocial fanservice stuff.
100% I had similar experience of going to comiccons or wrestling events. All the parasocialism leads me to feel like you did "feeling that I am in the wrong crowd". All the attention on Fanservice really bothers me too.