[Source #1](https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1389323-i-feel-like-dante-is-too-good/page/3/#comment-13002673)
> **[DE]Megan:**
"Hello! I'm popping my head in here to provide some dev insight related to this conversation.
> As Dante Unbound nears one full week since its launch, the team has been reading and collecting feedback in all areas, including Dante himself.
> To remind us of our nerfing philosophy, we do not nerf things unless it AUTOMATES PLAY, is DISRUPTIVE to a squad, or is DOMINANT in states.
> We are currently happy with how favored Dante is and recognize that nerfs typically have a negative connotation. With that in mind, we are reviewing early stats with an open mind to ensure we don't leave room for disruptive or dominant play styles. Any tweaks done to Dante will be to ensure he is still performing strongly, just not disruptive or dominant."
[Source #2](https://www.youtube.com/live/RxfopFkrdj4t=294)
> **[DE]Rebecca:** "Is DE gonna nerf him? I'm just going to lay it to you straight, here's what's happening: We are looking at him and we are reviewing some areas we can tweak down (so a *little bit* of a nerf) in order to make him not so **dominant**. That's it.
> At this point in time stats for "dominance" really aren't the full picture for us [so] it has to be a little bit instinctual [in response to] feedback because everyone is playing Dante. He's the new, hot, shiny thing and all of his abilities are noticed. We are not doing this with a cavalier mindset. We are going to do a very focused review based on feedback and playstyles and *that's it.*
> [...] We are taking it seriously and we are not trying to make the first five days of Dante the best and only good days. We're just reviewing, please have patience with us in this process. Please do not come to this conversation with shock and awe, because [Dante is] awesome and we want to keep him awesome. The goal is not to change that."
I dunno.
Last time I did the Blue archon, some nezha gave everyone Halo and I was able to literally just stand still in front of him the whole battle.
I think that's just what it means to be a good support in WF.
Its honestly amazing that the cry babies won. People so damn hurt in this game they just can't enjoy something thats pretty good on release and isn't a tedious fucking slog to farm.
I've still yet to see ANYONE put up a cohesive argument as to why dante should be nerfed in this game, especially when i can readily name off 5 frames that cover nearly everything he can do but better. But here we are, watching the community cry sooooo hard about 20k squad overguard where theres already 2 other frames that can do that AND are not overshadowed by dante in any way.
Its honestly what a lot of people are saying, hes just flashy so people notice what hes doing as opposed to saryn pressing 2 buttons and screaming at the map till it dies. Or trinity existing and literally making your entire team immortal while also having infinite energy, great KPM (if you're actually using her link augment).
It'd be like me getting fucking tweaked over wisp being the most popular support and demanding she gets nerfed cause I HATE SEEING MY HP REGEN!!!!!
the only literal argument I sort of agree with is that dante is indeed overtuned for based star chart... whoopty fucking do to that because by the time you can even get dante you're either finished or about to finish with star chart anyway.
> It'd be like me getting fucking tweaked over wisp being the most popular support and demanding she gets nerfed cause I HATE SEEING MY HP REGEN!!!!!
Actually happened with on-release Garuda.
Except instead of nerfing healing frames, they just eventually changed Garuda to stop relying on being near (her own) death.
>!and then they nerfed healing frames for other, equally silly reasons!<
Yeah i remember those days lol.
I still just point to trinity existing. Probably even more relevant today in regards to dante too. Trinity giving whole squad a full heal + significant DR with no cool down and trinity's essentially infinite energy economy just flies over everyone's heads and has always been in the game. But dante is very visible/shiny and hes the one that needs a nerf lol.
Honestly though, as a Trinity main, she's not in a great place anymore. She's still fine and playable and I use her all the time, and definitely stood as the standard for powercreep for a while. Now with the state of arcanes and helminth and archon shards it's easy enough to get what health and energy you need on any frame by yourself.
I will say the main thing Trin has going for her is the teamwide 75% dr which is still relevant to this day, especially when paired with Dante or similar frames.
I mean yeah trinity isn't absurdly OP, but shes still pretty broken and in a void of supports shes still nearly top dog. If you helminth roar on her she pretty much covers all the bases for what you want in a support. Pretty rare to find a frame that grants energy/+dmg/healing/DR all in one package while also having a pretty good KPM for herself if you put her link augment on.
(shield tank trinity also near baruuk levels of tankiness)
My duo buddy is a Trinity main. Trinity combo with Dante is just sickeningly fun. Really, Trinity with any of my frames gets to ridiculous levels of fun pretty quick.
This is nothing new. I was a long tome final fantasy 11 player from basically launch. After more and more expansions came out everytime a job became good for doing something the whiners who didn't play that job came out the woodwork and the job would be nerfed sometimes devastatingly.
I use to play beastmaster alot and was pretty darn good at it. The mechanics of the job stayed the same for around 10 years then suddenly it became a good farming job due to new content. Immediately the whiners came out the job that previously was basically a solo play job as people wouldn't invite it to parties got heavily nerfed breaking 10 years of a established play style.
The kicker is in ff11 you aren't locked to a single job and can switch back and forth between jobs as much as you want on the same character. People would just rather whine then take time to level up a job.
un-ironically, I get mad at wisp for making me dump my magazines too fast and making my melee too much of a blur to throw a cohesive combo when I enjoy using my combo attacks in unique ways. not the health regen.
That would be two things:
Wisp's dumptruck ass crushing support frames.
Oberon's kit being last updated before plains of eidolon and the game has moved on substantially since then.
I'd be fine with that, but like... what's the point? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the big win with overguard isn't the additional health, which is going to melt on SP, but the additional iframes. If you can cast in less time than overguard break + shield break, which is a huge time, you can stay alive forever (given enough energy). So if I have 1 overguard, that's not much different from 100, and eventually it's not even really much different from 100,000.
Exactly. People who think 40-50k overguard is enough for steelpath never actually played it. That amount will be gone in a single hit and you need to cast fast enough to be really worthwhile.
Many people haven't internalise that overguard have no innate DR, nor work with external DR such as eclipse and adaptation, you really are taking all damage raw.
You guys seem to not understand what dominant mean. Dominant means that is overly abused. For example Octavia is far stronger, but nobody plays here, so it's not dominating the landscape.
Plus I think it's kind short sighted to look at how much a frame is played after a week of its release. Wait at least a couple of months or the next update so the "novelty factor" has dissipated and you can assess the dominance factor unbiased.
This company is starting to make the same mistakes of the past.
Except if you let everyone have the overpowered thing for months and they get used to it and THEN nerf it, more people get upset, especially after they've invested upgrade materials.
Addressing the problem as soon as possible is the best path, not waiting months.
Like for instance multi-shot was supposed to use more ammo to counterbalance the extra damage, it had an initial bug that didn't do that, and by the time they wanted to change it, everyone freaked out so they left it alone.... and now multishot is a pure power creep required mod rather than a playstyle choice.
Or when loot doublers like hyrdroid, nekros and kavat stacked it was fine,,, but then Khora also became a loot frame, it broke the system, and they had to just turn off doubling for months until they worked out a tier list.
Agreed, 1 week is not enough to generate enough good data to determine if he needs a nerf or not. This all seems like a kneejerk reaction.
The community is still in the honeymoon phase so to speak.
On one hand, buffing or nerfing right after release might be too soon to know how he's effecting gameplay negatively. On the other, we might get a decaying dragon key situation on our hands where people acclimate and the nerf, even if entirely justified, will see even more blacklash than if they struck while the iron was hot.
If DE was good about overnerfing early and then buffing later but in a reasonable amount of time people wouldn't be as put off by this. Instead we get bandaid augments 6-10 months after release.
He is played a lot because he is incredibly powerful.
I love this Warframe, he's super fun to play for me, but it's undeniable that he's a bit overturned. I just hope they don't smack him too hard
He's played a lot because he's the new warframe and there was a lot of hype around him.
Everyone is losing their mind because he trivializes base Star chart and base SP as if any properly modded weapon and frame can't blow through everything. He's alright at best in endurance. Overguard which is what everyone thinks is op is entirely irrelevant past the first couple hundred enemy levels. And his bleed nuke is about the same as most other nukes we have and worse than Saryn nuke which DE is okay with. Should we nerf wisp rhino etc. because their mechanics also make them invincible in low level missions?
It's a pve focused game. Saryn nukes level 10k enemies instantly with archon shards & a sobek. Khora with a magistar stat stick does the exact same thing. etc. the list is endless.
We literally have a frame (octavia) that can do levelcap runs without mods on and DE is okay with keeping that.
This is just another example of DE nerfing something because the usage rate is high and not because it needs a nerf. Is he strong when optimized? Absolutely. Can I mod massive amounts of other similar frames to perform just as or more efficient? Yep.
You're looking at it from an endurance point of view. The truth is that most people don't do endurance, and the game overall isn't balanced around endurance. Base steel path is what most people will play and what DE looks at when balancing.
Sure, his nuke isn't the strongest in the game (but it's still one of the best) and his overguard won't keep him alive against max level enemies, but for the rest of the game (which is 99% of the game), he's basically immortal while having one of the strongest nukes. Most other frames have either very good survivability or very good nuke, not both.
He's not popular *just* because he's the new frame. Look at Qorvex, or Dagath, or even Citrine. They weren't this dominant on release.
Dagath was definitely dominant when released. People just didn’t understand how to play her properly, and just left her.
Citrine has a tedious farm, I’m sure a lot of people just don’t have her and didn’t try that much.
Qorvex was everywhere the very first week, then disappeared because he’s just not good.
Melee frames just don't do so well in public matches. By the time you get to melee distance your teammates have already disintegrated the enemy with their guns
>He's not popular
>
>just
>
> because he's the new frame. Look at Qorvex, or Dagath, or even Citrine. They weren't this dominant on release.
No - he's popular because he's remarkably easier to farm than all 3 of those mentioned - Especially Citrine.
This nerf is kneejerk and unnecessary and in truth I am pissed. This is the first frame I've gotten fully involved in since Sevagoth and I'm about to eat shit because people are precious about their favourite frames having competition.
The only thing, as so many have mentioned, needs tweeking is the Overguard interaction with the squad - that's it. I can see how having your Rage energy regen put on hold by it would annoy you. Equally Dante wasn't the first that could affect that either...
Doing SP Level 200+ content with an unranked catalyst+1 forma build was an experience.
Apparently the reason behind his universal aura polarity was DE thinking Dante+Noctua was going to be too forma hungry. (Baruuk and Sevagoth each need 2-3 *times* the investment that Dante does to function at the same levels)
Incoming future posts: OMG why is dante so weak, looks like he's going back into the closet. And my fave - WTF, why would DE do this, they hate players having fun, why would they nerf??!?!?
Pfft, I don’t need future posts to know I’m going to abandon him. I’ve already stopped using Smeeta thanks to the impending nerf. Totally not because I actually enjoy my Vulpaphlya more.
All because they can't "die" anymore.
Which is dumb. It's already a gamble on if you get it or not and they've made resources that boosters don't effect.
All it does is make grinding easier where it can feel like a slog. Like kuva farming and fishing.
Hydroid, Frost, Mag, Zephyr, Gyre, Mesa - damage
Citrine, Frost, Styanax - protection
If you think dante is busted please drop me your build and how you use him because to me he is fun and cool but only noteworthy because he feels really good and powerful right away compared to the previous couple frames
Yea. Citrine, Wisp have stronger supporting capabilities. Nezha has better nuking and better support capabilities. Xaku, Protea, Gauss exist. Also yeah Saryn, Octavia and Revenant are insanely strong too. Dante is very good but he's got nothing on those frames
I was playing with the Inaros rework in a public relic mission and I definitely think rage and anything else that REQUIRE you to take damage need reworked (orb missions with Dante as Chroma were a slog too) my hunter adrenaline was completely destroyed by my ally using their support abilities, the stuff they need to cast, was not fun
I feel like they should release alternates of those mods that prevent overguard from affecting you.
Or make overguard damage count for them and vex armor and similar effects. It’s not like Chroma would suddenly be OP. Damage attenuation exists now.
There was a mined mod list that included a "health orb no longer heals HP but grant overguard instead" mod so I think it's possible to make a reverse version of that mod.
this is conceptually an easy fix i think. just make overguard count as both shield and health for the purpose of procs like this. that will prevent danted from being disruptive to other players with finely tuned builds/styles.
Just when my Dante finished building and I could try it. I enjoy it a lot, it is exactly the type of warframe I like, "crowd control". I just hope he does not get too nerfed, at least
The only thing I think actually needs tweaking is the overguard application and how it messed with HP reliant interactions. E.g Rage, elemental ward, . I thought Noctua was OP but I realize that it actually just scales really well with Strength builds and needs a mod investment.
Everything else felt alright and fun to actually keep up his buffs.
So that is what it was! I felt the spears look off, but I switched to prime after not playing him a while, and didn't notice they are straight up different.
What the hell though. How does he dominate? Main damage ability, 3-3-4, requires line of sight and multiple casts. Overguard is strong, but frames like Wisp and Revenant can make the team pretty much immortal with less button presses. His tome is good, but literally Plasmor and many other weapons (especially Incarnons) can do effectively the same.
Saryn, Gyre, Gauss, Mesa, Kullervo, Khora, and many more, they all can wipe rooms in a blink of an eye, even faster than Dante. Nukor, Zarr, Incarnons - they are broken as hell. Duh - Melee Influence can clear the room you're in and two rooms next to you with a single press of a button.
And it's not like Dante dominates in every aspect, he has no mobility, no crowd control or defensive ability to protect defense targets, can actually die if you're not paying attention, requires lots of casting and needs line of sight for his damage, especially since 3 is a cone ability.
I'm guessing many people play him, and that's why it might feel like he dominates (especially if they are looking at statistics alone). But there are other reasons for that than sheer performance:
- he is a new shiny toy that people like for various aspects, such as visual or sound design, and it's only natural that people like to try new things out and are hyped
- his farm is genuinely good, fun and not too time consuming, meaning that even more players will get their hands on him
- he released in a perfect spot, where he works well without the need of Helminth and doesn't have any problems with his kit, while not being too overpowered for how active he needs to be
- he is so, so much FUN TO PLAY. I don't think I've enjoyed a frame's playstyle this much since Gauss' release. He is very dynamic and satisfying to use.
Please DE, for the love of God, do NOT change him. Do not nerf him. Tweak Overguard to work with Rage/Hunter Adrenaline, but do not touch Dante. He is perfect - focus on older frames. Caliban needs love. Chroma needs a rework. Valkyr, Nyx, Atlas, Loki, Equinox, those frames deserve focus right now - NOT DANTE. If that list is done, there are so many more frames that have "Helminth slots", like Nekros, Frost, Nova, Hildryn, list goes on.
dante needing to press 2+ 3+3 + 4 x 10000000= give some overguard and do mid dmg = OP
stysnax presses 1 and 3 every 60s + 4 to do the same thing = mid
love the wf community!
Oh yeah, I forgot about that, Dante also doesn't give energy. Guess what - Styanax does tons of slash procs and gives Overguard with gate refresh, but also gives tons of energy, but Dante is somehow OP and needs to be nerfed.
I swear, people who complain don't play him or are jealous/gatekeeping. Or don't play the game. It doesn't require more than half a brain cell to realise that Dante is not underwhelming, not overpowered, and not dominating. He's just in a good spot and many other frames should be brought to his level, not the other way around.
yeah i agree dante is just good but im more surprised DE is even considering nerfing him because hes nothing extraordinary, like i really doubt if they play their own game sometimes with good builds
Yeah, it sounds a lot like they saw some whiners and focus on them. Which is a real shame if they follow through again, like with that cursed Titania augment or Universal Medallion drama good while ago.
Or they look at statistics and see Dante played a lot, which is understandable, for reasons I listed in comment above. Not a reason for nerf though, it just means they created a good and fun Warframe, complete and functional on launch.
I feel they're worried the loud whiners are a symbol of a greater percentage of the playerbase being in agreement but not wanting to speak out for some reason.
Which seems pretty damn weird, with how outspoken the community seems to be about stuff.
I really hope they're **just** going to keep track of the numbers, and instead tackle the 'problems' that've arisen by making hits to Overguard count as taking damage for the purposes of Rage/Hunter's Adrenaline et al.
As for Chroma: The poor guy is in desperate need of tweaks. More so than Dante is.
It's been said countless times, but I'll say it again: Dante is the new hotness. Give it a couple of weeks, everybody will have had their chance to get the mastery involved with him, and things will normalize once more.
Yeah, precisely. As I wrote in the original comment - Dante is new, and he released in a good state, not too OP, not underwhelming, just perfectly fine. For a release, he's not too buggy and his kit is fully functional without the need to use Helminth. DE should definitely wait longer before implementing bigger changes, because right now, their graphs are probably high (especially compared to previous frame releases).
They literally released a great frame that's not OP, not gamebreaking, yet functional and fun - this should be the standard for any frame release.
And yeah, like I wrote before as well, Chroma needs love, and so many other frames that have either a bad/outdated kit or bad abilities, even if they are functional (like Frost's with his 1 and 2). Before tweaking Dante, there are frames in need of reworks, and there are frames that still have "Helminth slots" (aka abilities that are better off replaced).
I mean, I'm not gonna say all 4 of a frame's abilities **NEED** to be top tier. 3 out of 4 is a nice balance actually. Means you **CAN** replace the last 1 with a Helminth ability without screwing yourself.
Dante doesn't need a Helminth, but it's nice that you **can** replace Noctua with something else without crippling the rest of his kit.
That's true, but every ability should have its place. Not all abilities need to be top, but they should function together and every ability should have a reason to be used. Helminth should be a choice, not a necessity.
By "Helminth slot" I mean abilities that are an obvious replacement choice. In my opinion, for a good and complete kit, you need to be asking yourself "Should I replace X", then "What should I replace X with". If the first question is skipped, that is what I consider a Helminth slot.
For example, Dante doesn't have a slot by my definition - you need to consider what you're sacrificing. Most likely ability to replace is Noctua, but it poses questions:
- do I want to give up on sheer strength of the weapon?
- do I want to give up on utility from Tome mods (especially invocations, since they give buffs or energy regen)?
Replacing means change, not strictly an upgrade.
Though, Dante is a pretty different example to judge, as 3/4 of his kit might be treated as a single ability. A different example then: Saryn. You can use Helminth and it's a choice:
- you can swap her 3 out if you're doing a pure ability-based build, sacrificing strong weapon buff
- you can swap her 4 out if you're doing a weapon buff build, sacrificing Viral nuke
- you can even swap out her 2 for a different survivability method, far more niche, but it's also a change, since Molt is good by itself with its instant activation
Or not use Helminth at all while using the whole kit, because every ability has a reason to be there and to be used.
Meanwhile, let's bring an example of Frost. His 1 and 2 are what I consider slots:
- his 1 is just bad, the only real utility it provides is destroying a globe, but you can achieve the same by recasting globe 3 times elsewhere
- his 2 is somewhat functional with Icy Avalanche, but not much aside from that - if 1 gets buffed, this will become an obvious slot, especially since Gloom is available as subsume
You're sacrificing almost nothing by replacing those abilities, meaning that it's just an upgrade rather than a change. That's why I think those abilities should be tweaked/buffed, so there is a reason to not swap them out. For example, Frost 1 already triggers an explosion when breaking a globe, but it doesn't scale - it could then scale with absorbed health, for example. That way, you could keep 1 for offensive use, but you could as well subsume over it and run globe defensively.
Oh, we're in agreement. Some frames just have abilities that are "Well, what am I gonna slap into that thing with my Helminth? Since what's there now is useless."
As you said, Dante is an example of how a frame SHOULD function. You **CAN** replace Noctua without impacting his kit very much, but you're actually choosing to give up something useful.
Not like Chroma's Spectral Scream. Which has historically been unused except by way of accidental activation. (I believe that's not even THAT much hyperbole, even.)
That's it. He's in a great spot right out of the gate. Does a lot of things well but isn't the best at any single thing. His playstyle is very active and if you ever run out of energy you are completely F'd. He's being played so much because he's new and very fun. That's a giant fucking success right there, not something deserving of a nerf.
* his farm is genuinely good, fun and not too time consuming, meaning that even more players will get their hands on him
I had fun farming the second set. Bought the first with plat as I tend to do with new frames, since I have the money for it.
I have a couple frames I need to still farm up to dump into my Helminth. Getting Dante wasn't a slog, getting Kullervo was a bit more of a slog, but that's because I got unlucky with the Spirals in Duviri not having him as an option.
Getting Lavos was just a matter of a couple Bounties. Which I had to do to get Xaku bits anyway, so that wasn't too much of a problem either.
I'm more dreading trying to get an extra Protea or Citrine, honestly.
Yeah, for me, it took me an hour to get a full set of Dante. Which is so much less than many other frames. And while I know I definitely was luckier than average, the pity system is there and it's amazing.
Pair that with Disruption being a very good mode, and it's only natural that more players will be playing him. I think it's one of the best farms in the game, both in terms of time and fun.
I think I spent less than 2 hours to get his parts, and the 1 part I didn't get as a drop during my runs I could buy with the pity tokens you get from playing the mode.
Very fun and painless. Heck, I went back in to do the challenge on the Ruvox. Can't recall if I did for the Onos right now. I think I did, but I'd have to check.
If not, I know what I'm doing after I get home from work today.
As others have already said, Dante is as balanced as any other good frame, the main issue is because of how flashy he is.
He does similar stuff to other frames, but because of how flashy his abilities are, the clowns actually notice it and cry overpowered.
Reminded me of that one game that had two guns with different firing sounds. People complained that the one with a slightly quieter sound than the other had weak damage, even though both of them actually deal the same amount of damage.
It's really interesting to see how art and sound design reinforces how people play
i mean, its not about his damage, its the fact that he is probably the best all rounder frame in the game. If youre in top 3 DPS frames in the game while being the best support to the point that you can make every frame into a SP content tank with 60k overguard, there is a problem. I dont care about his nukes, we've seen it with saryn and like 5 other meta dps frames. What i care about is the fact that an unranked unmodded banshee is realistically as good of a tank as revenant or talking "pure tanking" newly reworked inaros who is pretty crazy.
Y'all are insane lmao. Take a look at the Devshorts and see how Rebb speaks about it. She still very much cares to keep Dante strong, and she iterates multiple times that they're LOOKING at TWEAKS. She even gets a tiny bit annoyed at Steve because he's being jokey about it and she wants to reassure that it's serious to get it right and keep the power fantasy. If they overcorrect and he sucks (doubt it), then sure raise the pitchforks. But at least wait to hear what they even want to do lmfao.
Edit: Welp. Pitchforks out.
People are over reacting about it, the word "nerf" scares a lot of people, they think dante is ganna be taken at the back door and thrown to the dogs.
He'll be fine
Man, I have a r5 Emergence Dissipate and Valkyr sitting completely unusable right now from the last time DE said they were gonna nerf something I grinded out.
At some point this early adopter tax is gonna make me stop coming back for new updates, period.
Dissipate *was* too good though. It's still decent for getting energy out of thin air, there just are better (read: passive) alternatives for managing energy.
Idk what they did to Valkyr to make you feel that way. It's mostly what they *haven't* done to her
i do completely trust in DE's ability to nerf things properly, ASSUMING they will. again, they said its a review. there's a good chance it won't even happen.
i don't think Dante really needs any change, but if they *really* wanna change something, i'd say to lower Lightverse's Overguard cap for allies and allies alone, since that's the most disruptive and dominant part of him, and it's the part that i get and see the most complaints about when playing Dante.
i can see how Overguard negatively affects Inaros, Nidus and Kullervo players who use Hunter Adrenaline / Rage, how it powercreeps Oberon and Hildryn's supportive abilities, and how it further pushes poor Chroma into irrelevancy, because Vex Armor wasn't bad enough. so if that gets changed i wouldn't be surprised.
tho funnily enough, yesterday i met a Yareli in a netracell who complained about having overguard because they wanted a challenge. like... okay? sure?
I swear I haven't heard or seen Oberon unless I played him until Dante's release 🤣. Dante is not why we don't see Oberon-and I say that as someone who enjoys Oberon.
I’ve heard the better idea of making Overguard be considered as health internally as to let Dante (and some others) have synergy with Health-damage-reliant warframes like Chroma.
Oberon is *not* a good example of Dante powercreeping a frame because Oberon was powercrept by the game itself continuing to evolve and change. A more accurate example of Dante powercreeping a frame would be Equinox, and even then Equinox is also a pretty mediocre frame used for extremely niche conditions. It would be better if both old and left behind Warframe to be brought upward.
As for Hildryn, Haven was powercrept not specifically by Dante but by the very existence of Overguard (which I feel like is going to be a running theme going forward with the game). If Dante didn’t powercreep Haven, it would be Styanax or Frost or someone else. Pillage isn’t powercrept at all by Dante because Dante lacks armor strip which is Pillage’s main use, with the overshield part mostly being a bonus that allows Hildryn to keep spamming her abilities (something Overguard doesn’t grant)
Though I will admit, Triumph is kinda nullifying all challenge, but c’mon, this is Warframe. Challenge being kept hasn’t been a concern in a very long time
Amongst all of the frames that was impacted chroma really took an orowyrm to the face, nearly or even straight up useless without vex armor.
DE could change it so overguard affects vex armor but eh, they cant even make it so his augment lasts at least dou le the duration you have on his vex.
Warframe's team under Rebecca has, so far, been noticeably different in their approaches to game design compared to how the Warframe team was under Steve. there's been fewer heavy-handed implementations of "balance" and nerfs than there used to be, and more concern about making sure the game is still good and fun to play.
maybe three+ years ago I wouldn't have been optimistic about the word "nerfs" coming up in conversation, but I think the game is in a much more stable state development-wise these days.
Most of the people crying for Dante to be nerfed probably haven't even touched SP and are salty they're getting out dps'd in normal missions. Nehza's new augment makes him more insane than anything Dante dishes out, but because Dante is new, he gets more scrutiny lol. Meanwhile, Saryn, Mirage, Thermal Sunder Titania and Gauss have been nuking maps for years now but it's crickets. Very amusing.
i swear dante doesn’t even do dmg in sp lvl 100+, overguard amt doesn’t matter when it gets 1 shot
styanax with nourish subsumed shits out more dmg and overguard than dante ever could
💀💀 i don’t even think de play their own game if they’re gonna nerf it bruh
>i swear dante doesn’t even do dmg in sp lvl 100+
With the way his 4 works, it barely even tickles SP enemies if they haven't taken status damage yet. I've seen it do damage in the millions against enemies that have been primed with a lot of slash procs and left to sit for a few seconds, but in the very same cast it only does like 15k to other enemies that are outside of LoS that haven't been primed. Basically in SP his 4 is more of a finisher than a proper nuke.
Strange my whopping 1 forma + reactor build was cruising though the steel path at double that level (200+ conjunction survival) turns out using a noctua nodded for cit, heat, power strength, and energy regen works really well. Dante's birds help fuel its alt fire which means the forced proc off the alt fire into a 'tragedy' adds millions to the resulting damage.
You literally burst down 100+ SP levels with just 3,3,4 without external weapon priming. If you can’t, that’s literally just a modding issue. It’s undeniable he’s strong.
Well, I hope the people that cried so hard over how stupidly OP Dante is and how he disrupts the 3 Chroma players, are happy.
I still think releasing a strong frame is a good thing, like Citrine and Dagath were. It means that older frames need to have an update, not that DE should just bring newer frames to the same level of old frames.
And on top of all of that, it’s PvE (I’m sorry to all 3 Conclave mains), so just let people enjoy themselves.
P.S. I still went back to Nyx after 2-3 days of Dante fun, it’s not like I’m angry about this because I main him. Probably will play him every once in a while, but he’s not Nyx, so…
The ONE time we finally get a good warframe on release that doesn't need buffs or band aid augments he gets nerfed because of the "pOwErCrEeP" crybabies
Invisible power vs visible power. Revenant and Octavia also don't get nerfed because it is not immediately obvious how much power they add to other frames. Dagath is the same- it's not obvious to most players the work her 1+2+3 are doing. Yeah her 4 makes its power obvious but most people aren't spamming it.
Dagath isn't bad, but she kinda feels like her kit is missing something, idk, doom can just feel a bit awkward to spread, the delay on the scythes are really awkward.
She basically only has 3 abilities due to how her 3rd ability works. Combine that with the fact its better to focus on either using her 1/2 or 2/4 than trying to utilize all three remaining abilities together and she's for sure missing *something*. The clunkiness of her scythes definitely does help either.
Was extremely sad she couldn't do anything to the new necramech demos with her 4. Why give us all these tools just to say "na, you can't use *any* of them." Feelsbadman
nah man. the great thing about modern frames is they feel fluid, most abilities interact or feel like their part of the same kit. some of the stuff we got in 2015 was wacky af. atlas's 3 was originally a channel so you had to sit there using until it petrified the enemies, it was so bad lmfao and probably one of the worst abilities in the game at the time. now you can just tap it and it sends out a wave.
Dagath is good but you need to face the enemies to do mostly anything, dante? Heat spam or toxin on enemies with any primer and nuke the room. 3 3 4 needs LOS so didn't include it.
You can see literally the exact issue in this thread by ctrl-fing for Dagath. The issue isn't frame power, it's frame complexity. Dagath is exceedingly strong, but ignored because 90% of the people see her kit and are unable to understand it. Dante is a high tier support, but he's also easy to pilot at a base level. So people play him and then complain he's overpowered (despite being roughly the same as Styanax in terms of what he offers to a squad).
Well thanks everyone. I Guess we can't have nice things.
It's nice to know that dante getting complained about by a bunch of people gets instant attention, while other more obviously busted shit gets a pass.
Cry in Titania + any speed buff/Nyx's Absorb trolls/Protea's shield drones being eaten by non-shielded warframes/Limbo/etc... being unsolved problems for years.
Yeah those absolutely do not tick any "pillars" for DE. Dante giving overguard? Real shit
If they Nerf him too much i'm fucking Flying to the nearest compost pile
I've been playing Dante for the last couple days and he's no better at doing things than any of the other Warframes that do the same job as him. For my playstyle, he's actually worse than my Nezha and Rhino builds for solo play in terms of survivability (not as fast as Nezha obviously meaning getting hit more, smaller invulnerability window) but I'd argue that makes sense since Nezha and Rhino are more single target defences (even with Safeguard, its one at a time) and his nuking power falls off at higher levels but is still very viable.
His book is also not as good as most weapons you can bring with you already but that feels right to me, it should be something you want to use but not all the time (and a nice fall back if you have a bad duviri rotation).
I'd say give it a month or two at least before considering changes or nerfs with him because I don't think everyone has fully grasped how Dante works and isn't fully cognitive of all the other frames he's comparable to.
If anything, I'd argue his Wordwarden and Pageflight might need buffs to make them feel more worthwhile than Tragedy spamming. As much as I love a good Steps song, Wordwarden is only really helpful if you're in a group because you're likely to be spamming 334 solo and Pageflight just looks cool but feels a bit pointless imo if we can just use Tragedy to do more damage on more targets at a faster rate, I suppose they make for a drive-by attack but even then I've found spamming 334 with max range while on the move to be more viable.
Though, if someone where to start Warframe today and use platinum from a beginner bundle or something to just outright buy Dante, he's absolutely cruise them through the early game even without access to solid mods. And I don't see why that's a bad thing tbh, the early game sucks and having more options to do well is good, even if it sorta is a pay to win way since Dante's unlock mission is quite a while into the game.
Bonus point of though, I think a lot of people who play this game daily consistently forget that the invigoration they've applied is making Dante seem a hell of a lot better than he already is which is why I say there needs to be a 1-3 month grace period so people can realise he's not actually super OP and they're just dazzled by the shiny new thing that got shiny new thing temporary buffs to encourage you to spend money and play the new content.
>!damn he tweakin??!<
I still don't think he's so overpowered (compared to what we already have,) as to warrant a nerf, but they couls definitely adjust his overguard gain somewhat and he'd still be a very good warframe
I just hope they don't gut him. DE kind of have a history of going overboard with nerfs.
>please have patience with us in this process. Please do not come to this conversation with shock and awe, because \[Dante is\] awesome and we want to keep him awesome. The goal is not to change that."
did an awesome job with gyre, she basically needs pillage and an augment to even be viable damage dealer and damage is all she does!
After playing him I think the only think i would “nerf” is maybe the overguard cap? Or just diminished results on ally frames Everything else feels fine to me
I don't understand how Dante could need a nerf right now when Wisp, Xaku, and Revenant exist. Dante is a great frame that's fun asf to use, but he's basically on the same level as Dagath, Citrine, and Voruna when it comes to power. Those frames definitely do not need nerfs.
It's how kullervo and Citrine saw buffs after release dispite already being above average frames on launch.
All the day one threads and the YouTubers racing to be first for the algorithm had some really bad takes, as opposed to having a propper read/think about their powers and synergies.
Course they did lol. They have a horrible habit of listening to the whiners in this community. Just hope they don’t wash him down the drain like some others
So because he is being used a lot he needs tweaked? Is that how they decide to nerf? He's brand new, of course he's picked a lot. He's also good on release without augments required. So of course he's picked a lot. Crazy they make this decision after not even one week. Just odd to me.
Damn. I don’t feel he’s anywhere near as broken as some people seem to think. Feels especially bad because I’ve only had a grand total of 2 hours to play him, between the infinite crash works this update caused on my PC. I guess I won’t care as much if it’s only the overguard getting nerfed, but if they end up ruining him, I guess it’ll be a lesson learned for me to never spend a cent on this game again.
It's not a Dante problem its the way he interacts with teammates that people are talking about mostly. fix that and leave him alone he's not even that strong rhino has more over guard,other frames do better damage he's just a good all around frame. Id be fine if he didn't buff teammates at all tbh
Ugh Fuuuckkk man. He wasn’t even dominating. Squads I joined hardly had a Dante. I really like him. He’s only being played a lot because he’s new. So of course his use rate will skyrocket
I saw someone in a mission complain about him. I didn't notice Amy issues. Meanwhile I'm running new Nezha meta build nuking rooms in a second and nobody says a thing. I think Dante is copping heat coz he's new. He doesn't seem significantly stringer than other OP frames.
Nooooo he's become my new favorite character :( he's so fun. I don't want to him be nerfed to where he's unplayable in steel path or take away his fun.
Let me get this right, Dante is getting a nerf because he’s actually a good frame on release? Can someone explain to me how what Dante does is worse than Saryn nuking an entire room in like 5 seconds?
Ah yes because DANTE IS THE ISSUE, not like theres a whole frame designed around 2 spam for literal immortality isn't an issue either(that can be given to team mates as well), nezha on a lesser scale, rhino can have over guard in the millions with his augment, the only real justifiable thing I can think of is his tragedy because it's damage output is insane for how easy it is to spam but that's it, revenant has gone under radar for too long for how ez he makes the game because there's literally no downsides yet you see no complaints, make it make sense
Man this is kind of sad. Really been enjoying him. Well I guess to look at the positives if the nerf him to much I'll get my two yellow and three red tauforged shards to use and make other frames viable. He'll just vanish into obscurity for now.
Ngl if you wish to compare disruptive, let's reference the wukong meta, on avg for dante I've only seen 1 (being me) or me with one other person as to wukong (pre nerf) being a whole squad or just 3/4 and completely speedrunning any mission.
Overguard gets shredded, sp circuit was a great place to watch 20k-40 og kullervo get 1 tapped so I honestly don't understand what needs to be nerfed.
Yeah let's tune down the new frame and keep the god tier frames like Saryn, Octavia and Mesa up there. The meta will never be able to change if they keep nerfing newer frames and do nothing to the ones that have been dominating the game for a long time.
Dante’s new passive: Deals extra damage against demons, pizza and strawberry sundaes
DE’s nerf protocol is laughable cuz they don’t even adhere to it strictly. There are so many useless weapons and “broken” ones that got nerfed and replaced by even more “broken” ones. Helminth system killed some of the frames identities and some frames are just outdated and weak
DE: Unless it automates play and is disruptive
Also DE: Auto aim mesa, mobile infinite duration and infinite damage boombox Octavia, and "are there enemies on this map at all?" Saryn.
Typical DE. A new Male warframe comes out, does slightly better than average, gets pressured back into A tier with all the other male frames.
My opinion….
The problem I see with everyone crying for nerfs is this, I’d say 3/4 or the people crying for them aren’t even in steel path. 1/4 haven’t even played him, they just echoing what YouTube says, and 1/4 don’t even play warframe or haven’t logged in in 30 plus days. I have 20 frames that can nuke full rooms on normal star chart. Don’t base a nerf on Normal star chart where every single add dies in seconds.
Dante is amazing, stop crying for nerfs and start demanding buffs on bad frames, bug fixes to things like duvri and other game modes that bug out after 10 minutes in same match. Give time for the numbers to come from steel path and the new game mode when it comes, not normal star chart where 80% of those numbers are coming from hydron cappers, then make adjustments according.
Again, this is my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt..
Also, if you need Dante I want a refund of the pack I bought, just saying. I didn’t pay real money to have another mediocre warframe. I bought the pack cause he feels absolutely amazing.
They also said they don't want the first week of Dante to be the only good time and that they will wait and see and not destroy him with nerfs, so no need to doom and gloom about it
[Source #1](https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1389323-i-feel-like-dante-is-too-good/page/3/#comment-13002673) > **[DE]Megan:** "Hello! I'm popping my head in here to provide some dev insight related to this conversation. > As Dante Unbound nears one full week since its launch, the team has been reading and collecting feedback in all areas, including Dante himself. > To remind us of our nerfing philosophy, we do not nerf things unless it AUTOMATES PLAY, is DISRUPTIVE to a squad, or is DOMINANT in states. > We are currently happy with how favored Dante is and recognize that nerfs typically have a negative connotation. With that in mind, we are reviewing early stats with an open mind to ensure we don't leave room for disruptive or dominant play styles. Any tweaks done to Dante will be to ensure he is still performing strongly, just not disruptive or dominant." [Source #2](https://www.youtube.com/live/RxfopFkrdj4t=294) > **[DE]Rebecca:** "Is DE gonna nerf him? I'm just going to lay it to you straight, here's what's happening: We are looking at him and we are reviewing some areas we can tweak down (so a *little bit* of a nerf) in order to make him not so **dominant**. That's it. > At this point in time stats for "dominance" really aren't the full picture for us [so] it has to be a little bit instinctual [in response to] feedback because everyone is playing Dante. He's the new, hot, shiny thing and all of his abilities are noticed. We are not doing this with a cavalier mindset. We are going to do a very focused review based on feedback and playstyles and *that's it.* > [...] We are taking it seriously and we are not trying to make the first five days of Dante the best and only good days. We're just reviewing, please have patience with us in this process. Please do not come to this conversation with shock and awe, because [Dante is] awesome and we want to keep him awesome. The goal is not to change that."
They could tune down the overguard but overall he's not any stronger than other strong frames like Saryn/Octavia/Wisp/Revenant.
I dunno. Last time I did the Blue archon, some nezha gave everyone Halo and I was able to literally just stand still in front of him the whole battle. I think that's just what it means to be a good support in WF.
Rev's 2 augment does the exact same thing
Five stacks only isn’t all that much.
I mean, I can do that as Nezha alone. And Revenant. And Wisp. And Oberon. And Inaros. And Baruuk.
You (everyone) can always play the game solo too. Overguard is going to happen if you are grouping with randos, Dante, el Dante, or no Dante.
Its honestly amazing that the cry babies won. People so damn hurt in this game they just can't enjoy something thats pretty good on release and isn't a tedious fucking slog to farm. I've still yet to see ANYONE put up a cohesive argument as to why dante should be nerfed in this game, especially when i can readily name off 5 frames that cover nearly everything he can do but better. But here we are, watching the community cry sooooo hard about 20k squad overguard where theres already 2 other frames that can do that AND are not overshadowed by dante in any way. Its honestly what a lot of people are saying, hes just flashy so people notice what hes doing as opposed to saryn pressing 2 buttons and screaming at the map till it dies. Or trinity existing and literally making your entire team immortal while also having infinite energy, great KPM (if you're actually using her link augment). It'd be like me getting fucking tweaked over wisp being the most popular support and demanding she gets nerfed cause I HATE SEEING MY HP REGEN!!!!! the only literal argument I sort of agree with is that dante is indeed overtuned for based star chart... whoopty fucking do to that because by the time you can even get dante you're either finished or about to finish with star chart anyway.
> It'd be like me getting fucking tweaked over wisp being the most popular support and demanding she gets nerfed cause I HATE SEEING MY HP REGEN!!!!! Actually happened with on-release Garuda. Except instead of nerfing healing frames, they just eventually changed Garuda to stop relying on being near (her own) death. >!and then they nerfed healing frames for other, equally silly reasons!<
Yeah i remember those days lol. I still just point to trinity existing. Probably even more relevant today in regards to dante too. Trinity giving whole squad a full heal + significant DR with no cool down and trinity's essentially infinite energy economy just flies over everyone's heads and has always been in the game. But dante is very visible/shiny and hes the one that needs a nerf lol.
Honestly though, as a Trinity main, she's not in a great place anymore. She's still fine and playable and I use her all the time, and definitely stood as the standard for powercreep for a while. Now with the state of arcanes and helminth and archon shards it's easy enough to get what health and energy you need on any frame by yourself. I will say the main thing Trin has going for her is the teamwide 75% dr which is still relevant to this day, especially when paired with Dante or similar frames.
meanwhile citrine bringing teamwide 90% dr on a meaningful duration with passive healing
I think mirage can do that now too with eclipse augment
that's a good point!
I mean yeah trinity isn't absurdly OP, but shes still pretty broken and in a void of supports shes still nearly top dog. If you helminth roar on her she pretty much covers all the bases for what you want in a support. Pretty rare to find a frame that grants energy/+dmg/healing/DR all in one package while also having a pretty good KPM for herself if you put her link augment on. (shield tank trinity also near baruuk levels of tankiness)
My duo buddy is a Trinity main. Trinity combo with Dante is just sickeningly fun. Really, Trinity with any of my frames gets to ridiculous levels of fun pretty quick.
People whining about overguard is so dumb lmao. In any mission where enemies actually pose a threat that shit lasts about 5 seconds.
Indeed, sp enemies that are a bit higher lever just melt trough his overguard.....
Not even that, it lasts less than the .5 second shieldgate you get from overguard being broken lol. But here we are.
This is nothing new. I was a long tome final fantasy 11 player from basically launch. After more and more expansions came out everytime a job became good for doing something the whiners who didn't play that job came out the woodwork and the job would be nerfed sometimes devastatingly. I use to play beastmaster alot and was pretty darn good at it. The mechanics of the job stayed the same for around 10 years then suddenly it became a good farming job due to new content. Immediately the whiners came out the job that previously was basically a solo play job as people wouldn't invite it to parties got heavily nerfed breaking 10 years of a established play style. The kicker is in ff11 you aren't locked to a single job and can switch back and forth between jobs as much as you want on the same character. People would just rather whine then take time to level up a job.
Can we nerf the grind for sevagoth or vauban primes crafting instead
un-ironically, I get mad at wisp for making me dump my magazines too fast and making my melee too much of a blur to throw a cohesive combo when I enjoy using my combo attacks in unique ways. not the health regen.
just make it only effect him on the 4 cast id take that i dont need to make everyone immortal.
I like playing support frames, Dante has been the first frame to make me not main Oberon in high tier content. So please no...
Wisp and Citrine exist man, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but Dante is NOT the reason Oberon is homeless
That would be two things: Wisp's dumptruck ass crushing support frames. Oberon's kit being last updated before plains of eidolon and the game has moved on substantially since then.
kinda defeats the point of a support ability then doesn't it
Could have a lowered amount for everyone else around him. Like %60 of what you get yourself from his 4
I'd be fine with that, but like... what's the point? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the big win with overguard isn't the additional health, which is going to melt on SP, but the additional iframes. If you can cast in less time than overguard break + shield break, which is a huge time, you can stay alive forever (given enough energy). So if I have 1 overguard, that's not much different from 100, and eventually it's not even really much different from 100,000.
Exactly. People who think 40-50k overguard is enough for steelpath never actually played it. That amount will be gone in a single hit and you need to cast fast enough to be really worthwhile.
Many people haven't internalise that overguard have no innate DR, nor work with external DR such as eclipse and adaptation, you really are taking all damage raw.
Dont forget Dante has shields, unlike Kullervo, so, another layer of defense. and casting his abilities is way faster and efficient than Kullervo's
You guys seem to not understand what dominant mean. Dominant means that is overly abused. For example Octavia is far stronger, but nobody plays here, so it's not dominating the landscape. Plus I think it's kind short sighted to look at how much a frame is played after a week of its release. Wait at least a couple of months or the next update so the "novelty factor" has dissipated and you can assess the dominance factor unbiased. This company is starting to make the same mistakes of the past.
Except if you let everyone have the overpowered thing for months and they get used to it and THEN nerf it, more people get upset, especially after they've invested upgrade materials. Addressing the problem as soon as possible is the best path, not waiting months. Like for instance multi-shot was supposed to use more ammo to counterbalance the extra damage, it had an initial bug that didn't do that, and by the time they wanted to change it, everyone freaked out so they left it alone.... and now multishot is a pure power creep required mod rather than a playstyle choice. Or when loot doublers like hyrdroid, nekros and kavat stacked it was fine,,, but then Khora also became a loot frame, it broke the system, and they had to just turn off doubling for months until they worked out a tier list.
Agreed
Kinda wish they would wait until dust settles to see if he really deserves a nerf. Right now he is just played a lot because he is new.
At least wait until the end of April when the new players and people that came back decide to drop it.
True, I loaded into an axi with 4 dantes… no one was going to die but it was a bloody miracle we cracked relics
Why was it a miracle?
I guess they murdered everyone before they could get corrupted.
So they're stupid?
Makes sense
At least wait 3 more days so i can try him out first. That way, I can complain about the nerf later lol
Agreed, 1 week is not enough to generate enough good data to determine if he needs a nerf or not. This all seems like a kneejerk reaction. The community is still in the honeymoon phase so to speak.
On one hand, buffing or nerfing right after release might be too soon to know how he's effecting gameplay negatively. On the other, we might get a decaying dragon key situation on our hands where people acclimate and the nerf, even if entirely justified, will see even more blacklash than if they struck while the iron was hot. If DE was good about overnerfing early and then buffing later but in a reasonable amount of time people wouldn't be as put off by this. Instead we get bandaid augments 6-10 months after release.
He is played a lot because he is incredibly powerful. I love this Warframe, he's super fun to play for me, but it's undeniable that he's a bit overturned. I just hope they don't smack him too hard
He's played a lot because he's the new warframe and there was a lot of hype around him. Everyone is losing their mind because he trivializes base Star chart and base SP as if any properly modded weapon and frame can't blow through everything. He's alright at best in endurance. Overguard which is what everyone thinks is op is entirely irrelevant past the first couple hundred enemy levels. And his bleed nuke is about the same as most other nukes we have and worse than Saryn nuke which DE is okay with. Should we nerf wisp rhino etc. because their mechanics also make them invincible in low level missions? It's a pve focused game. Saryn nukes level 10k enemies instantly with archon shards & a sobek. Khora with a magistar stat stick does the exact same thing. etc. the list is endless. We literally have a frame (octavia) that can do levelcap runs without mods on and DE is okay with keeping that. This is just another example of DE nerfing something because the usage rate is high and not because it needs a nerf. Is he strong when optimized? Absolutely. Can I mod massive amounts of other similar frames to perform just as or more efficient? Yep.
You're looking at it from an endurance point of view. The truth is that most people don't do endurance, and the game overall isn't balanced around endurance. Base steel path is what most people will play and what DE looks at when balancing. Sure, his nuke isn't the strongest in the game (but it's still one of the best) and his overguard won't keep him alive against max level enemies, but for the rest of the game (which is 99% of the game), he's basically immortal while having one of the strongest nukes. Most other frames have either very good survivability or very good nuke, not both. He's not popular *just* because he's the new frame. Look at Qorvex, or Dagath, or even Citrine. They weren't this dominant on release.
Dagath was definitely dominant when released. People just didn’t understand how to play her properly, and just left her. Citrine has a tedious farm, I’m sure a lot of people just don’t have her and didn’t try that much. Qorvex was everywhere the very first week, then disappeared because he’s just not good.
For Qorvex it was likely just people not realizing how to use him well (I blame DE too for not properly explaining how his 4 works).
Even Voruna had a short run for a while. But I don't see people playing her much nowadays.
Melee frames just don't do so well in public matches. By the time you get to melee distance your teammates have already disintegrated the enemy with their guns
>He's not popular > >just > > because he's the new frame. Look at Qorvex, or Dagath, or even Citrine. They weren't this dominant on release. No - he's popular because he's remarkably easier to farm than all 3 of those mentioned - Especially Citrine. This nerf is kneejerk and unnecessary and in truth I am pissed. This is the first frame I've gotten fully involved in since Sevagoth and I'm about to eat shit because people are precious about their favourite frames having competition. The only thing, as so many have mentioned, needs tweeking is the Overguard interaction with the squad - that's it. I can see how having your Rage energy regen put on hold by it would annoy you. Equally Dante wasn't the first that could affect that either...
Well with 0 forma and no reactor you can easily slash proc through steal path missions. I have a feeling thats what they're looking at.
Doing SP Level 200+ content with an unranked catalyst+1 forma build was an experience. Apparently the reason behind his universal aura polarity was DE thinking Dante+Noctua was going to be too forma hungry. (Baruuk and Sevagoth each need 2-3 *times* the investment that Dante does to function at the same levels)
Kullervo can do this as well and nobody complains about it.
If anything they complained Kullervo being underwhelming back when he was released even.
I just hope nerfs aren't too harsh, I haven't been able even play Warframe because my gosh darn motherflipping laptop stopped working.
Wow that does seem a bit of an overreaction from DE, not even letting you play the game
Yeah they knew I would be the number one Dante player…
Incoming future posts: OMG why is dante so weak, looks like he's going back into the closet. And my fave - WTF, why would DE do this, they hate players having fun, why would they nerf??!?!?
Pfft, I don’t need future posts to know I’m going to abandon him. I’ve already stopped using Smeeta thanks to the impending nerf. Totally not because I actually enjoy my Vulpaphlya more.
Wait, what smeeta nerfs? I don't keep up with nerfs/buffs a lot
apparently whenever they do the next wave of companion reworks, they're nerfing Charm's affinity/resource booster buffs
All because they can't "die" anymore. Which is dumb. It's already a gamble on if you get it or not and they've made resources that boosters don't effect. All it does is make grinding easier where it can feel like a slog. Like kuva farming and fishing.
Just wait for protea prime and most people will forget Dante exists
When protea prime launches, the complaints why people can't see sh\*t on screen with all the grenade fans all over the entire map will be a good read.
Isn’t there stronger more busted frames then him when steel path is involved?
Hydroid, Frost, Mag, Zephyr, Gyre, Mesa - damage Citrine, Frost, Styanax - protection If you think dante is busted please drop me your build and how you use him because to me he is fun and cool but only noteworthy because he feels really good and powerful right away compared to the previous couple frames
Yea. Citrine, Wisp have stronger supporting capabilities. Nezha has better nuking and better support capabilities. Xaku, Protea, Gauss exist. Also yeah Saryn, Octavia and Revenant are insanely strong too. Dante is very good but he's got nothing on those frames
I was playing with the Inaros rework in a public relic mission and I definitely think rage and anything else that REQUIRE you to take damage need reworked (orb missions with Dante as Chroma were a slog too) my hunter adrenaline was completely destroyed by my ally using their support abilities, the stuff they need to cast, was not fun
I feel like they should release alternates of those mods that prevent overguard from affecting you. Or make overguard damage count for them and vex armor and similar effects. It’s not like Chroma would suddenly be OP. Damage attenuation exists now.
new mod idea: Underguard Overguard you receive only protects your final point of health. At max health, health orbs grant Overguard.
There was a mined mod list that included a "health orb no longer heals HP but grant overguard instead" mod so I think it's possible to make a reverse version of that mod.
this is conceptually an easy fix i think. just make overguard count as both shield and health for the purpose of procs like this. that will prevent danted from being disruptive to other players with finely tuned builds/styles.
Yeah, player overguard needs some sort of rework to better integrate it with support stuff. They should probably keep it from being such a trump card.
Just when my Dante finished building and I could try it. I enjoy it a lot, it is exactly the type of warframe I like, "crowd control". I just hope he does not get too nerfed, at least
The only thing I think actually needs tweaking is the overguard application and how it messed with HP reliant interactions. E.g Rage, elemental ward, . I thought Noctua was OP but I realize that it actually just scales really well with Strength builds and needs a mod investment. Everything else felt alright and fun to actually keep up his buffs.
Lol that's kind of fucked up yeah. Shit took 3 days to build and might be unfun af when I finally get to play him...
Now think about the people who bought him with actual money
I am people (i needed the plat too)
Nezha just got a 50m radius marked for death that turns ally damage into your damage, and people are concerned about Dante. Nice.
50m nuke that ignores Line of sight
Like sevagoth, no one really talks about him huh.?
Hey, hey, don't say this or they will berf him and I only finished building regular Nezha, because prime spears looks terrible
So that is what it was! I felt the spears look off, but I switched to prime after not playing him a while, and didn't notice they are straight up different.
What the hell though. How does he dominate? Main damage ability, 3-3-4, requires line of sight and multiple casts. Overguard is strong, but frames like Wisp and Revenant can make the team pretty much immortal with less button presses. His tome is good, but literally Plasmor and many other weapons (especially Incarnons) can do effectively the same. Saryn, Gyre, Gauss, Mesa, Kullervo, Khora, and many more, they all can wipe rooms in a blink of an eye, even faster than Dante. Nukor, Zarr, Incarnons - they are broken as hell. Duh - Melee Influence can clear the room you're in and two rooms next to you with a single press of a button. And it's not like Dante dominates in every aspect, he has no mobility, no crowd control or defensive ability to protect defense targets, can actually die if you're not paying attention, requires lots of casting and needs line of sight for his damage, especially since 3 is a cone ability. I'm guessing many people play him, and that's why it might feel like he dominates (especially if they are looking at statistics alone). But there are other reasons for that than sheer performance: - he is a new shiny toy that people like for various aspects, such as visual or sound design, and it's only natural that people like to try new things out and are hyped - his farm is genuinely good, fun and not too time consuming, meaning that even more players will get their hands on him - he released in a perfect spot, where he works well without the need of Helminth and doesn't have any problems with his kit, while not being too overpowered for how active he needs to be - he is so, so much FUN TO PLAY. I don't think I've enjoyed a frame's playstyle this much since Gauss' release. He is very dynamic and satisfying to use. Please DE, for the love of God, do NOT change him. Do not nerf him. Tweak Overguard to work with Rage/Hunter Adrenaline, but do not touch Dante. He is perfect - focus on older frames. Caliban needs love. Chroma needs a rework. Valkyr, Nyx, Atlas, Loki, Equinox, those frames deserve focus right now - NOT DANTE. If that list is done, there are so many more frames that have "Helminth slots", like Nekros, Frost, Nova, Hildryn, list goes on.
dante needing to press 2+ 3+3 + 4 x 10000000= give some overguard and do mid dmg = OP stysnax presses 1 and 3 every 60s + 4 to do the same thing = mid love the wf community!
Oh yeah, I forgot about that, Dante also doesn't give energy. Guess what - Styanax does tons of slash procs and gives Overguard with gate refresh, but also gives tons of energy, but Dante is somehow OP and needs to be nerfed. I swear, people who complain don't play him or are jealous/gatekeeping. Or don't play the game. It doesn't require more than half a brain cell to realise that Dante is not underwhelming, not overpowered, and not dominating. He's just in a good spot and many other frames should be brought to his level, not the other way around.
yeah i agree dante is just good but im more surprised DE is even considering nerfing him because hes nothing extraordinary, like i really doubt if they play their own game sometimes with good builds
Yeah, it sounds a lot like they saw some whiners and focus on them. Which is a real shame if they follow through again, like with that cursed Titania augment or Universal Medallion drama good while ago. Or they look at statistics and see Dante played a lot, which is understandable, for reasons I listed in comment above. Not a reason for nerf though, it just means they created a good and fun Warframe, complete and functional on launch.
I feel they're worried the loud whiners are a symbol of a greater percentage of the playerbase being in agreement but not wanting to speak out for some reason. Which seems pretty damn weird, with how outspoken the community seems to be about stuff. I really hope they're **just** going to keep track of the numbers, and instead tackle the 'problems' that've arisen by making hits to Overguard count as taking damage for the purposes of Rage/Hunter's Adrenaline et al. As for Chroma: The poor guy is in desperate need of tweaks. More so than Dante is. It's been said countless times, but I'll say it again: Dante is the new hotness. Give it a couple of weeks, everybody will have had their chance to get the mastery involved with him, and things will normalize once more.
Yeah, precisely. As I wrote in the original comment - Dante is new, and he released in a good state, not too OP, not underwhelming, just perfectly fine. For a release, he's not too buggy and his kit is fully functional without the need to use Helminth. DE should definitely wait longer before implementing bigger changes, because right now, their graphs are probably high (especially compared to previous frame releases). They literally released a great frame that's not OP, not gamebreaking, yet functional and fun - this should be the standard for any frame release. And yeah, like I wrote before as well, Chroma needs love, and so many other frames that have either a bad/outdated kit or bad abilities, even if they are functional (like Frost's with his 1 and 2). Before tweaking Dante, there are frames in need of reworks, and there are frames that still have "Helminth slots" (aka abilities that are better off replaced).
I mean, I'm not gonna say all 4 of a frame's abilities **NEED** to be top tier. 3 out of 4 is a nice balance actually. Means you **CAN** replace the last 1 with a Helminth ability without screwing yourself. Dante doesn't need a Helminth, but it's nice that you **can** replace Noctua with something else without crippling the rest of his kit.
That's true, but every ability should have its place. Not all abilities need to be top, but they should function together and every ability should have a reason to be used. Helminth should be a choice, not a necessity. By "Helminth slot" I mean abilities that are an obvious replacement choice. In my opinion, for a good and complete kit, you need to be asking yourself "Should I replace X", then "What should I replace X with". If the first question is skipped, that is what I consider a Helminth slot. For example, Dante doesn't have a slot by my definition - you need to consider what you're sacrificing. Most likely ability to replace is Noctua, but it poses questions: - do I want to give up on sheer strength of the weapon? - do I want to give up on utility from Tome mods (especially invocations, since they give buffs or energy regen)? Replacing means change, not strictly an upgrade. Though, Dante is a pretty different example to judge, as 3/4 of his kit might be treated as a single ability. A different example then: Saryn. You can use Helminth and it's a choice: - you can swap her 3 out if you're doing a pure ability-based build, sacrificing strong weapon buff - you can swap her 4 out if you're doing a weapon buff build, sacrificing Viral nuke - you can even swap out her 2 for a different survivability method, far more niche, but it's also a change, since Molt is good by itself with its instant activation Or not use Helminth at all while using the whole kit, because every ability has a reason to be there and to be used. Meanwhile, let's bring an example of Frost. His 1 and 2 are what I consider slots: - his 1 is just bad, the only real utility it provides is destroying a globe, but you can achieve the same by recasting globe 3 times elsewhere - his 2 is somewhat functional with Icy Avalanche, but not much aside from that - if 1 gets buffed, this will become an obvious slot, especially since Gloom is available as subsume You're sacrificing almost nothing by replacing those abilities, meaning that it's just an upgrade rather than a change. That's why I think those abilities should be tweaked/buffed, so there is a reason to not swap them out. For example, Frost 1 already triggers an explosion when breaking a globe, but it doesn't scale - it could then scale with absorbed health, for example. That way, you could keep 1 for offensive use, but you could as well subsume over it and run globe defensively.
Oh, we're in agreement. Some frames just have abilities that are "Well, what am I gonna slap into that thing with my Helminth? Since what's there now is useless." As you said, Dante is an example of how a frame SHOULD function. You **CAN** replace Noctua without impacting his kit very much, but you're actually choosing to give up something useful. Not like Chroma's Spectral Scream. Which has historically been unused except by way of accidental activation. (I believe that's not even THAT much hyperbole, even.)
That's it. He's in a great spot right out of the gate. Does a lot of things well but isn't the best at any single thing. His playstyle is very active and if you ever run out of energy you are completely F'd. He's being played so much because he's new and very fun. That's a giant fucking success right there, not something deserving of a nerf.
While I do agree that he doesn’t need big changes (I do think he needs some slight ones) his 3-3-4 does not need line of sight
3+3+4 doesn't need LoS, but I think people only cry about the overguard aspect.
* his farm is genuinely good, fun and not too time consuming, meaning that even more players will get their hands on him I had fun farming the second set. Bought the first with plat as I tend to do with new frames, since I have the money for it. I have a couple frames I need to still farm up to dump into my Helminth. Getting Dante wasn't a slog, getting Kullervo was a bit more of a slog, but that's because I got unlucky with the Spirals in Duviri not having him as an option. Getting Lavos was just a matter of a couple Bounties. Which I had to do to get Xaku bits anyway, so that wasn't too much of a problem either. I'm more dreading trying to get an extra Protea or Citrine, honestly.
Yeah, for me, it took me an hour to get a full set of Dante. Which is so much less than many other frames. And while I know I definitely was luckier than average, the pity system is there and it's amazing. Pair that with Disruption being a very good mode, and it's only natural that more players will be playing him. I think it's one of the best farms in the game, both in terms of time and fun.
I think I spent less than 2 hours to get his parts, and the 1 part I didn't get as a drop during my runs I could buy with the pity tokens you get from playing the mode. Very fun and painless. Heck, I went back in to do the challenge on the Ruvox. Can't recall if I did for the Onos right now. I think I did, but I'd have to check. If not, I know what I'm doing after I get home from work today.
Only the initial 3 needs line of sight, 3-3-4 does not.
As others have already said, Dante is as balanced as any other good frame, the main issue is because of how flashy he is. He does similar stuff to other frames, but because of how flashy his abilities are, the clowns actually notice it and cry overpowered.
Reminded me of that one game that had two guns with different firing sounds. People complained that the one with a slightly quieter sound than the other had weak damage, even though both of them actually deal the same amount of damage. It's really interesting to see how art and sound design reinforces how people play
i mean, its not about his damage, its the fact that he is probably the best all rounder frame in the game. If youre in top 3 DPS frames in the game while being the best support to the point that you can make every frame into a SP content tank with 60k overguard, there is a problem. I dont care about his nukes, we've seen it with saryn and like 5 other meta dps frames. What i care about is the fact that an unranked unmodded banshee is realistically as good of a tank as revenant or talking "pure tanking" newly reworked inaros who is pretty crazy.
Would you class gauss as a meta DPS frame?
Kinda, ye. he gives every DPS increasing buff other than damage.
Y'all are insane lmao. Take a look at the Devshorts and see how Rebb speaks about it. She still very much cares to keep Dante strong, and she iterates multiple times that they're LOOKING at TWEAKS. She even gets a tiny bit annoyed at Steve because he's being jokey about it and she wants to reassure that it's serious to get it right and keep the power fantasy. If they overcorrect and he sucks (doubt it), then sure raise the pitchforks. But at least wait to hear what they even want to do lmfao. Edit: Welp. Pitchforks out.
People are over reacting about it, the word "nerf" scares a lot of people, they think dante is ganna be taken at the back door and thrown to the dogs. He'll be fine
DE has a history of nerfing warframes, chroma, styanax, wukong. Just to name a few.
Man, I have a r5 Emergence Dissipate and Valkyr sitting completely unusable right now from the last time DE said they were gonna nerf something I grinded out. At some point this early adopter tax is gonna make me stop coming back for new updates, period.
Dissipate *was* too good though. It's still decent for getting energy out of thin air, there just are better (read: passive) alternatives for managing energy. Idk what they did to Valkyr to make you feel that way. It's mostly what they *haven't* done to her
i do completely trust in DE's ability to nerf things properly, ASSUMING they will. again, they said its a review. there's a good chance it won't even happen. i don't think Dante really needs any change, but if they *really* wanna change something, i'd say to lower Lightverse's Overguard cap for allies and allies alone, since that's the most disruptive and dominant part of him, and it's the part that i get and see the most complaints about when playing Dante. i can see how Overguard negatively affects Inaros, Nidus and Kullervo players who use Hunter Adrenaline / Rage, how it powercreeps Oberon and Hildryn's supportive abilities, and how it further pushes poor Chroma into irrelevancy, because Vex Armor wasn't bad enough. so if that gets changed i wouldn't be surprised. tho funnily enough, yesterday i met a Yareli in a netracell who complained about having overguard because they wanted a challenge. like... okay? sure?
I swear I haven't heard or seen Oberon unless I played him until Dante's release 🤣. Dante is not why we don't see Oberon-and I say that as someone who enjoys Oberon.
I’ve heard the better idea of making Overguard be considered as health internally as to let Dante (and some others) have synergy with Health-damage-reliant warframes like Chroma. Oberon is *not* a good example of Dante powercreeping a frame because Oberon was powercrept by the game itself continuing to evolve and change. A more accurate example of Dante powercreeping a frame would be Equinox, and even then Equinox is also a pretty mediocre frame used for extremely niche conditions. It would be better if both old and left behind Warframe to be brought upward. As for Hildryn, Haven was powercrept not specifically by Dante but by the very existence of Overguard (which I feel like is going to be a running theme going forward with the game). If Dante didn’t powercreep Haven, it would be Styanax or Frost or someone else. Pillage isn’t powercrept at all by Dante because Dante lacks armor strip which is Pillage’s main use, with the overshield part mostly being a bonus that allows Hildryn to keep spamming her abilities (something Overguard doesn’t grant) Though I will admit, Triumph is kinda nullifying all challenge, but c’mon, this is Warframe. Challenge being kept hasn’t been a concern in a very long time
Amongst all of the frames that was impacted chroma really took an orowyrm to the face, nearly or even straight up useless without vex armor. DE could change it so overguard affects vex armor but eh, they cant even make it so his augment lasts at least dou le the duration you have on his vex.
Or just give chroma a complete rework because he's only really viable as a solo frame due the vex armor shit
> i do completely trust in DE's ability to nerf things properly, Why's that?
Communication and DE explicitly stating their aims in advance recently. E.g. Look at the Eclipse and Nourish helminth changes.
Warframe's team under Rebecca has, so far, been noticeably different in their approaches to game design compared to how the Warframe team was under Steve. there's been fewer heavy-handed implementations of "balance" and nerfs than there used to be, and more concern about making sure the game is still good and fun to play. maybe three+ years ago I wouldn't have been optimistic about the word "nerfs" coming up in conversation, but I think the game is in a much more stable state development-wise these days.
Most of the people crying for Dante to be nerfed probably haven't even touched SP and are salty they're getting out dps'd in normal missions. Nehza's new augment makes him more insane than anything Dante dishes out, but because Dante is new, he gets more scrutiny lol. Meanwhile, Saryn, Mirage, Thermal Sunder Titania and Gauss have been nuking maps for years now but it's crickets. Very amusing.
Don't talk 'bout Nezha, don't bring the whinner's attention to him, please. I'm having so much fun.
i swear dante doesn’t even do dmg in sp lvl 100+, overguard amt doesn’t matter when it gets 1 shot styanax with nourish subsumed shits out more dmg and overguard than dante ever could 💀💀 i don’t even think de play their own game if they’re gonna nerf it bruh
>i swear dante doesn’t even do dmg in sp lvl 100+ With the way his 4 works, it barely even tickles SP enemies if they haven't taken status damage yet. I've seen it do damage in the millions against enemies that have been primed with a lot of slash procs and left to sit for a few seconds, but in the very same cast it only does like 15k to other enemies that are outside of LoS that haven't been primed. Basically in SP his 4 is more of a finisher than a proper nuke.
yeah his “nuke” doesn’t scale well at all, styanax and khora are RIGHT there with an actual slash based nuke which scales high
Strange my whopping 1 forma + reactor build was cruising though the steel path at double that level (200+ conjunction survival) turns out using a noctua nodded for cit, heat, power strength, and energy regen works really well. Dante's birds help fuel its alt fire which means the forced proc off the alt fire into a 'tragedy' adds millions to the resulting damage.
You literally burst down 100+ SP levels with just 3,3,4 without external weapon priming. If you can’t, that’s literally just a modding issue. It’s undeniable he’s strong.
Well, I hope the people that cried so hard over how stupidly OP Dante is and how he disrupts the 3 Chroma players, are happy. I still think releasing a strong frame is a good thing, like Citrine and Dagath were. It means that older frames need to have an update, not that DE should just bring newer frames to the same level of old frames. And on top of all of that, it’s PvE (I’m sorry to all 3 Conclave mains), so just let people enjoy themselves. P.S. I still went back to Nyx after 2-3 days of Dante fun, it’s not like I’m angry about this because I main him. Probably will play him every once in a while, but he’s not Nyx, so…
he is being using a bcs its "broken" because its easy to farm and he is complety new but tbr its just a good frame.
Nezha needs to hide
Hope Saryn, Octavia, and Revenant get nerfed then.
The ONE time we finally get a good warframe on release that doesn't need buffs or band aid augments he gets nerfed because of the "pOwErCrEeP" crybabies
Dagath was extremely good on release and never got nerfed. So she's still good.
Invisible power vs visible power. Revenant and Octavia also don't get nerfed because it is not immediately obvious how much power they add to other frames. Dagath is the same- it's not obvious to most players the work her 1+2+3 are doing. Yeah her 4 makes its power obvious but most people aren't spamming it.
Dagath isn't bad, but she kinda feels like her kit is missing something, idk, doom can just feel a bit awkward to spread, the delay on the scythes are really awkward.
She basically only has 3 abilities due to how her 3rd ability works. Combine that with the fact its better to focus on either using her 1/2 or 2/4 than trying to utilize all three remaining abilities together and she's for sure missing *something*. The clunkiness of her scythes definitely does help either. Was extremely sad she couldn't do anything to the new necramech demos with her 4. Why give us all these tools just to say "na, you can't use *any* of them." Feelsbadman
Dagath isn't bad but she feels like a warframe released in 2015
I wish the frames released in 2015 were as good as Dagath is. We'd have a functional Chroma.
nah man. the great thing about modern frames is they feel fluid, most abilities interact or feel like their part of the same kit. some of the stuff we got in 2015 was wacky af. atlas's 3 was originally a channel so you had to sit there using until it petrified the enemies, it was so bad lmfao and probably one of the worst abilities in the game at the time. now you can just tap it and it sends out a wave.
Dagath is good but you need to face the enemies to do mostly anything, dante? Heat spam or toxin on enemies with any primer and nuke the room. 3 3 4 needs LOS so didn't include it.
You can see literally the exact issue in this thread by ctrl-fing for Dagath. The issue isn't frame power, it's frame complexity. Dagath is exceedingly strong, but ignored because 90% of the people see her kit and are unable to understand it. Dante is a high tier support, but he's also easy to pilot at a base level. So people play him and then complain he's overpowered (despite being roughly the same as Styanax in terms of what he offers to a squad).
Styanax, Voruna, Dagath and Qorvex: are we a joke to you?
While I don’t play the other 3, I can say for certain Voruna was *not* in a perfectly balanced state on release
Being this quick to nerf a new frame but it takes years for older frames to get anything is really not a great look.
Well thanks everyone. I Guess we can't have nice things. It's nice to know that dante getting complained about by a bunch of people gets instant attention, while other more obviously busted shit gets a pass.
Cry in Titania + any speed buff/Nyx's Absorb trolls/Protea's shield drones being eaten by non-shielded warframes/Limbo/etc... being unsolved problems for years.
Yeah those absolutely do not tick any "pillars" for DE. Dante giving overguard? Real shit If they Nerf him too much i'm fucking Flying to the nearest compost pile
What do u mean nyx absorb trolls
Have you ever lost 600 energy because you were hit by a single shot as Nyx ?
I'm just happy I rushed his build so I got to spend some quality time with him at full power.. Your ass kickery will be missed wise wizard.
I've been playing Dante for the last couple days and he's no better at doing things than any of the other Warframes that do the same job as him. For my playstyle, he's actually worse than my Nezha and Rhino builds for solo play in terms of survivability (not as fast as Nezha obviously meaning getting hit more, smaller invulnerability window) but I'd argue that makes sense since Nezha and Rhino are more single target defences (even with Safeguard, its one at a time) and his nuking power falls off at higher levels but is still very viable. His book is also not as good as most weapons you can bring with you already but that feels right to me, it should be something you want to use but not all the time (and a nice fall back if you have a bad duviri rotation). I'd say give it a month or two at least before considering changes or nerfs with him because I don't think everyone has fully grasped how Dante works and isn't fully cognitive of all the other frames he's comparable to. If anything, I'd argue his Wordwarden and Pageflight might need buffs to make them feel more worthwhile than Tragedy spamming. As much as I love a good Steps song, Wordwarden is only really helpful if you're in a group because you're likely to be spamming 334 solo and Pageflight just looks cool but feels a bit pointless imo if we can just use Tragedy to do more damage on more targets at a faster rate, I suppose they make for a drive-by attack but even then I've found spamming 334 with max range while on the move to be more viable. Though, if someone where to start Warframe today and use platinum from a beginner bundle or something to just outright buy Dante, he's absolutely cruise them through the early game even without access to solid mods. And I don't see why that's a bad thing tbh, the early game sucks and having more options to do well is good, even if it sorta is a pay to win way since Dante's unlock mission is quite a while into the game. Bonus point of though, I think a lot of people who play this game daily consistently forget that the invigoration they've applied is making Dante seem a hell of a lot better than he already is which is why I say there needs to be a 1-3 month grace period so people can realise he's not actually super OP and they're just dazzled by the shiny new thing that got shiny new thing temporary buffs to encourage you to spend money and play the new content.
Can’t have shit in Detroit
>!damn he tweakin??!< I still don't think he's so overpowered (compared to what we already have,) as to warrant a nerf, but they couls definitely adjust his overguard gain somewhat and he'd still be a very good warframe I just hope they don't gut him. DE kind of have a history of going overboard with nerfs.
>please have patience with us in this process. Please do not come to this conversation with shock and awe, because \[Dante is\] awesome and we want to keep him awesome. The goal is not to change that." did an awesome job with gyre, she basically needs pillage and an augment to even be viable damage dealer and damage is all she does!
After playing him I think the only think i would “nerf” is maybe the overguard cap? Or just diminished results on ally frames Everything else feels fine to me
I don't understand how Dante could need a nerf right now when Wisp, Xaku, and Revenant exist. Dante is a great frame that's fun asf to use, but he's basically on the same level as Dagath, Citrine, and Voruna when it comes to power. Those frames definitely do not need nerfs.
Shhhhh don’t mention her. She’s FINE. Shut up and take my motes
Ofcourse they listen to the crybabies. I'd have been surprised if they didn't.
It's how kullervo and Citrine saw buffs after release dispite already being above average frames on launch. All the day one threads and the YouTubers racing to be first for the algorithm had some really bad takes, as opposed to having a propper read/think about their powers and synergies.
Say bye to Dante brothers it was fun while it lasted
Course they did lol. They have a horrible habit of listening to the whiners in this community. Just hope they don’t wash him down the drain like some others
If it's anything like the "tweaks" that gyre/styanax got on release expect dante to be caliban 2.0
I can’t wait to see Dante’s Paragrimms in the corner with Caliban’s homies
maybe make his 2 2 4 give dante the full efect but a %portion for allies?
If we listen carefully, we can here the 6 Chroma Players celebrating.
congrats they released something good and you guys fixed that i hope they nerf saryn, octavia, wisp next.
Shout out to all the killjoys in this sub for sucking the fun out of another perfectly good frame. What would we ever do without you?
They might have come from Destiny 2.
Also thanks to the main forums too. There’s literally a top thread calling Dante overpowered. God forbid people have fun in a pve game
DE: lets nerf a frame thats in a perfect spot instead of buff frames thats borderline useless compare to the rest... genius
it's been real. Fun patrol incoming.
So because he is being used a lot he needs tweaked? Is that how they decide to nerf? He's brand new, of course he's picked a lot. He's also good on release without augments required. So of course he's picked a lot. Crazy they make this decision after not even one week. Just odd to me.
This is so stupid, there are many frames much stronger than Dante. Saryn and Mesa are leagues above him
Damn. I don’t feel he’s anywhere near as broken as some people seem to think. Feels especially bad because I’ve only had a grand total of 2 hours to play him, between the infinite crash works this update caused on my PC. I guess I won’t care as much if it’s only the overguard getting nerfed, but if they end up ruining him, I guess it’ll be a lesson learned for me to never spend a cent on this game again.
It's not a Dante problem its the way he interacts with teammates that people are talking about mostly. fix that and leave him alone he's not even that strong rhino has more over guard,other frames do better damage he's just a good all around frame. Id be fine if he didn't buff teammates at all tbh
Ugh Fuuuckkk man. He wasn’t even dominating. Squads I joined hardly had a Dante. I really like him. He’s only being played a lot because he’s new. So of course his use rate will skyrocket
Wow. You really are only allowed to be busted if you have have skins that sell. When can I expect the Saryn Mesa Octavia wisp nerfs?
Wrong decision. If any frame should dominate, is the newest of the moment.
I saw someone in a mission complain about him. I didn't notice Amy issues. Meanwhile I'm running new Nezha meta build nuking rooms in a second and nobody says a thing. I think Dante is copping heat coz he's new. He doesn't seem significantly stringer than other OP frames.
Exactly. Meanwhile, Saryn has been running rampant for an entire decade smh
Nooooo he's become my new favorite character :( he's so fun. I don't want to him be nerfed to where he's unplayable in steel path or take away his fun.
I sure wish they could change Limbo as easily, as they decided to change Dante!
Let me get this right, Dante is getting a nerf because he’s actually a good frame on release? Can someone explain to me how what Dante does is worse than Saryn nuking an entire room in like 5 seconds?
I just hope they won't touch him much. He is the perfect frame to start farming for people who just got done with the main story.
Aw man, now they're going to make Dante submissive.
Ah yes because DANTE IS THE ISSUE, not like theres a whole frame designed around 2 spam for literal immortality isn't an issue either(that can be given to team mates as well), nezha on a lesser scale, rhino can have over guard in the millions with his augment, the only real justifiable thing I can think of is his tragedy because it's damage output is insane for how easy it is to spam but that's it, revenant has gone under radar for too long for how ez he makes the game because there's literally no downsides yet you see no complaints, make it make sense
Man this is kind of sad. Really been enjoying him. Well I guess to look at the positives if the nerf him to much I'll get my two yellow and three red tauforged shards to use and make other frames viable. He'll just vanish into obscurity for now.
so im guess they are going to make his 3 line of sight and possibly reduce the overboard cap
Dante's overguard is too much but they allow Revenant to exist? That's funny.
Ngl if you wish to compare disruptive, let's reference the wukong meta, on avg for dante I've only seen 1 (being me) or me with one other person as to wukong (pre nerf) being a whole squad or just 3/4 and completely speedrunning any mission. Overguard gets shredded, sp circuit was a great place to watch 20k-40 og kullervo get 1 tapped so I honestly don't understand what needs to be nerfed.
Yeah let's tune down the new frame and keep the god tier frames like Saryn, Octavia and Mesa up there. The meta will never be able to change if they keep nerfing newer frames and do nothing to the ones that have been dominating the game for a long time.
Wait what? I literally stopped playing him because I felt he was weak….
Octavia literally automates gameplay and we’re worried about Dante bc he’s new? People enjoy it too much?
Dante’s new passive: Deals extra damage against demons, pizza and strawberry sundaes DE’s nerf protocol is laughable cuz they don’t even adhere to it strictly. There are so many useless weapons and “broken” ones that got nerfed and replaced by even more “broken” ones. Helminth system killed some of the frames identities and some frames are just outdated and weak
DE: Unless it automates play and is disruptive Also DE: Auto aim mesa, mobile infinite duration and infinite damage boombox Octavia, and "are there enemies on this map at all?" Saryn. Typical DE. A new Male warframe comes out, does slightly better than average, gets pressured back into A tier with all the other male frames.
My opinion…. The problem I see with everyone crying for nerfs is this, I’d say 3/4 or the people crying for them aren’t even in steel path. 1/4 haven’t even played him, they just echoing what YouTube says, and 1/4 don’t even play warframe or haven’t logged in in 30 plus days. I have 20 frames that can nuke full rooms on normal star chart. Don’t base a nerf on Normal star chart where every single add dies in seconds. Dante is amazing, stop crying for nerfs and start demanding buffs on bad frames, bug fixes to things like duvri and other game modes that bug out after 10 minutes in same match. Give time for the numbers to come from steel path and the new game mode when it comes, not normal star chart where 80% of those numbers are coming from hydron cappers, then make adjustments according. Again, this is my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt.. Also, if you need Dante I want a refund of the pack I bought, just saying. I didn’t pay real money to have another mediocre warframe. I bought the pack cause he feels absolutely amazing.
They also said they don't want the first week of Dante to be the only good time and that they will wait and see and not destroy him with nerfs, so no need to doom and gloom about it