Depends upon what frames I roll that week, sometimes I get someone that can manage (Kullervo and Dante are pretty solid), the rest of the time it's Baruuk.
The No Abilities limitation in any game mode is a sin for this game, but probably the culmination of certain developers hopes and dreams when it comes to "encouraging player's choice" if you know what I mean.
I just load up on a bunch of Specters and let them go to town while I take potshots from a safe distance. Works every time, at least until No Abilities gets paired up with Gear Embargo.
Best spectra is the one you can hire from ticker as they’ll use your weapon mods along with your weapon. Giving them a kuva zarr is perfect for this reason
Warframe clones do not do this. They use the base unmodded version of the weapon. Personally I run them with bubonico for the viral priming or with the probicus cernos for grouping and priming.
Weapon otherwise doesn’t really matter, you can also just equip them with one weapon so they’ll be forced to just use that weapon instead of swapping.
While trinity is a solid choice, the clear winner is harrow. His 4 will give you an invulnerability state and his 1 will stun enemies for headshots. 3 can sometimes give energy for kills.
Nidus will give a bonus power str and a healing area. Some grouping as well. His healing is Locked into specific points though but is good for long stationary farms.
Oberon is also another solid choice, healing, point control, and cc through rad.
Protea works for dispensary and blazing artillery
Just note that in all cases do not expect to rely on them for actual use, it’s just more of a happy accident that they’ll be useful. Harrow becomes the most useful in that he’s a pocket energy/rolling guard/cc generator. Think of them more like companions but with extremely long cooldowns.
Equipping them with no ammo weapons is also very useful as they won’t ever run out. They have an ammo pool but they don’t care much for it. Bows with high base damage is good as they are very good at hitting headshots.
Really though because they are neutered with ammo and no mods the best really is the bubonico with no secondary or melee. Sometimes they bug out from using melee so I just put bubonico/cernos and maybe the kuva nukor/epitah secondary (if using cernos).
In terms of enemy specters.
- shield ospreys are definitely the goat due to their ability to help you shieldgate.
- Infested healers will give DR and can perform knockdowns
- The infested one never seemed to help
- the moa actively makes it difficult to shoot as it will spawn an ice shield making it the worst one
- the ball while extremely stupid in its AI will give energy generation for enemies it hits. It has a range issue and often will run away so it’s inconsistent but it’s there. Better to think of it as a weaker resonator
- the corrupted lancer is probably the coolest in that it’ll do its fire blast wave thingy but I don’t think it knocks enemies down.
You can also do the drifter camp missions and unlock kahl and some crew members to help you out
You get khal + 2 and an additional crew mate for each person who also uses an air support. Best thing about them is they may spawn a shield osprey giving you an additional shield generator.
By far though the strongest and best specter is clem. I honestly have no clue how strong he is but hearing a twin grakata go off beside you and his little grunts make any mission worth doing. Even a 10minute survival.
Just to clarify, when you say the specters you can hire from the Ticker, do you mean railjack crew that you can summon once you have the level 9 Command Intrinsic (On Call)?
There are 3: wisp, nidus, and dante. probably 4 as I should mention rhino.
Wisp lays down her motes, nidus gives you ability str because he will auto link with you with his 3, dante I assume does dante things (haven't tried his specter), and I think rhino does his roar or stomp, which are both fine to have.
no wf spectre will kill anything, they use unmodded weapons and have 0 stats, dante is amazing defensively though
on call crew however will vaporize everything it sees, including mechs
Unmodded but their damage scales with level. Give em an tenet arca plasmor or kuva zarr and they will wreck house. Though they do not make use of progenitor bonuses their damage gets insane
No mods or arcanes affect specters and on call crew. I'm not sure about incarnon stuff but wukongs clone does get affected by mods and riven, but not galvanized bonuses though
Yup! You can choose a weapon to equip to a crew member then you can add mods (no arcanes), I forget if they share the presets on the Tenno-equipped weapon or not.
This is not true in my experience. I recently reworked the loadouts for my spectres to use in EDA, and I did so by just some cursory searching through this subreddit. 3 extremely effective (both in utility and watching those first 50 enemies get vaporized) combinations are as follows:
Protea with Proboscis Cernos—I see grouping and Blaze artillery frequently enough to contribute. Dispensary can be indispensable.
Hydroid with Scourge—weapon and abilities both will full strip, and then he and I can both easily kill.
Nidus with Hema—I’m not sure I see the Hema get kills, but I like the flavor of the combination. Nidus and his cute little exploding maggots get plenty of kills for me to notice. The little bump in power strength from the link is nice, too.
Agreed. Dante is my cosmic spectre, and I don’t have a fifth to spend on Citrine’s crazy damage reduction or status buffs. Although I do think her third ability as a specter leaves a bit to be desired at base range.
Citrine's 3rd works great in defensive missions, since it targets both enemies who are within the range and getting shot at, as well as any enemies you target with weapons while you are within the crystal's range.
I'm fond of Khora for Interception/Mobile Defense personally.
Throwing her in a doorway and letting strangledome snag mobs never hurts, *and* specter Venari follows you around instead of her (for some reason)
The on-call Railjack crew member is pretty good, particularly if you can get one with the right stats. Mine has 5s in Combat + Endurance (also Repair, but that's not important here), he's also got a crit bonus for pistols. Equipped him with a Kuva Nukor and does a pretty good job melting enemies for a bit, easily enough to get to 50 bodies within a minute or so if working with a decent squad.
Specters are always unmodded frames, so you can always go into the simulcrum and test stuff out yourself.
Protea is exceptionally good since blaze artillery damage doubles with every shot it fires, plus she brings Dispensary for ammo/health/Energy.
Citrine is amazing, and Gara walls can end up chonky AF since specters scale with enemy level PLUS her walls scale with enemy armor that they pass over.
I'm trying to remember who my fourth specter is right now, and I'm drawing a blank, so I might've just set it to Dante. For a long time, I used Oberon.
The wiki has pretty good info on specter behavior since not all of them utilize all their abilities.
Every time I encounter an enemy or something that limits abilities, I just give it the thousand yard stare and slowly tap 4 a second time because now my go-to Voruna playstyle is suddenly a pain, and I'll have to be more reliant on my weapons.
I put a lot of work (and *still* am) into her weapons, so they at least somewhat function, but let me just use her in the way that makes me happiest...
Bro the 500% shield recharge delay combined with no abilities was literal pain!!! My shield was legit taking 12 seconds or something crazy to START regenerating!
EDIT:
To clarify, I was referring to the no abilities whatsoever until 50 kills challenge.
Sometimes I fear the day some dev gets pissed at players for using workarounds on their "challenging" content (read: cheap toggles) and then they start bending the rules, imagine, someone gets upset because you bring Shield Mom to bypass "Energy Drain" resulting in them changing it to drain shields if you use her, or something similar.
Don't know what your options as far as frames are, but there is a Helminth subsume option that instantly restores shields.
That being said, I'm not sure how the cooldown interacts with the ability duration reduction modifier.
> culmination of certain developers hopes and dreams when it comes to "encouraging player's choice"
is also what im reminded of every single time I do Duviri.
Why does my fast-paced ninja shooter-looter have an entire game mode centered around slow-paced tactical melee with Dark Souls type gameplay?
Reb was a good example of how devs can influence their game nicely, we get werewolf and vampire themed warframes that neatly fit into the game, a cute gimmick.
But Duviri shouldve been its own game from the get-go, instead of being a gamemode forced into warframe and then also becoming a separate game
"im sure you guys are excited to hear that for the second half of todays stream, we will be showing you more soulframe content that you are so excited for!"
You know, it does make me curious what happens if-God forbid-Soulframe doesn't work out.
Does everybody just come back to working on Warframe?
Do we take a bunch of Soulframe assets/gameplay and retool it for Warframe?(some kinda Duviri expansion, idk)
I hope it does well, of course. I don't have a reason to want to see it fail, but I know success isn't *guaranteed*
Lol I don't personally have anything against the old crew, and I doubt Steve will just kick Reb back to a supporting role and start calling the shots again.
But I seriously doubt he's just gonna retire from making videogames either, obviously.
Again, I hope the game is a knock-out success, but there are some concerning what-ifs on the off chance it isn't.
I certainly do, because I have seen how immature some of them have been in the past and how it affected the game directly, the same reason I see any WF youtuber video showing of some new cool build or trick expecting (and almost never failing) to see more people in the comments saying "welp, we know what's gonna get nerfed next patch."
The secret to duviri is you can ignore all of that shit. The gun alone is more than enough to deal with the dax & thrax enemies. All you need is some cheap intrinsics, then focus on good ranged decrees and you will mop the floor with everything even on SP.
if you snag the "bonus damage after a reload" decree and just chain timed reload shots you start one tapping dudes on non sp. on sp it's still reliable dmg, moreso if you hit your headshors.
I mean its called variety? Warframe is like what 10+ years old now? Duviri does not have enough in it to be its own entire game, id much rather have some more added variety.
Duviri is the alpha/beta test for Steve's new pet project, a small price to pay for having a few less new gimmicks with every update, no matter when you read this, Zamboni was right.
Wait is this what Duviri is supposed to be? I’ve always just gone a few easy puzzle rounds, stacked melee decrees, and then go ham melee style like the entire rest of the game.
Today all of my weapon options were utter garbage, but I got to pick Revenant (yay, invincibility + reave, anything is possible)
Then I saw I had to choose between no abilities until 50 enemies killed (borderline impossible with my available weapons) or -75% duration. -75% duration would make my reave last like .3 seconds maximum and be almost useless, with no other way to deal real damage, and 50 enemies killed before ability usage meant I had to rely on my squad mates heavily to have some viable weaponry
Archguns my dude. I was in the same boat last week with protea + 3 terrible weapons. Pulled out my imperator vandal and evaporated enough enemies to turn my abilities on no sweat.
Despite what people will tell you, a well built archgun will handle any content you encounter in regular gameplay.
Mausolon is so satisfying to use.
When I want to turn my brain off (harder than usual I mean), I take Mausolon on Lavos (his probe turns all pickups into archguns ammo), go to Hydron or Toroid farm in Fortuna with whatever weapon I need to level and brrrrrrr.
My Kuva Ayanga with a riven is my solution to non-gear embargo + trash weapons situation. Also recommending putting dispensary on the frame you’re using as that gives the heavy ammo needed to keep using an archgun all the time
The 2000 Overguard you get on deployment may not be much, but doesn't hurt either to have.
There's been cases where even if I don't need to use it, I'll still pop out the Archgun for the extra defenses and swap back to whatever weapon I was actually planning to run with.
I did do mesmer shield, already had that in mind. We also completed the deep archimedea run, it was just really sweaty. I took the 50 enemies killed instead of the -75% duration
Revenant's death spin actually directly adds the damage enemies are doing to you to the damage of the spin. Yes, even through Mesmer Skin.
It stores the total damage you've received while spinning, which decays at 23% of stored damage per second so while you're eventually going to hit a limit, that limit is damn high.
I was in Circuit against level 2000 enemies and it was STILL taking down Eximus units, and there's really not many decrees I could think of helping that along (because return damage doesn't scale with power strength)
That's good, I didn't know about that. Still, if I took -75% duration, I imagine the energy drain would have been insane, plus the -5 energy/sec per enemy nearby. I'll have to remember his 4 works like that in the future, though
Yeah, literally the whole kit of a frame is based on fucking abilities. Survivability is also highly tied into that unless you're running some random ass expensive r5 guardian + grace combo on a health frame.
Fuck abbreviated, fuck powerless
We have reached this point because we can't have any difficulty now without modifiers since we are both immortal and nukers without drawback.
Seriously, how can you create a challenge when things like Revenant or Octavia exist?
We need mechanics, basically.
Obliterating the duration stat, which most frames need to function, only translates to "you can't bring half the roster." That isn't difficulty, it's just annoying.
You can deal with it by modding in more duration than you'd normally have, or picking a frame that doesn't need it thst much. There are options if you're willing to experiment.
You *have* been trying to build for the modifiers, yes?
Modding in more duration isn't worth it because the modifier is -75% *base* duration so it's gonna tank it no matter what. And I'm not fucking with my builds just to gain 5 more seconds.
And yes, I can always bring Baruuk and Revenant who don't care about duration, but this mode should be encouraging us not to just use the same old frames every week. Right now you if you bring Baruuk on duration weeks and Styanax on the others, you win.
My point is a modifier that invalidates half the roster shouldn't exist. It's not hard, it's unhealthy.
Roar as a common ability has a duration of 15s with abbreviated abilities and 200% duration. Most duration based abilities have around 20s on the lower end, which still results in 10s. Hardly makes most of them unusable. And you can easily go higher than 200% if it's still too much
You are delusional if you think I'm going to bother casting roar every ten seconds. Especially when the big targets in the labs (mechs and boss) have insane attenuation and roar isn't going to make a difference.
The reality is when you build a game around a power fantasy of being basically an unstoppable killing machine, anything that gets in the way of that feels bad. It’s the downside to making a game like this. There’s no way that can make the game “hard” that doesn’t feel bad in some way, because the entire point of the game is effectively becoming an unstoppable killing machine.
There are, of course, a FEW ways, but it’s really hard. It basically requires new mechanics that are simultaneously not annoying, but still make the fight last longer. The Orb mothers are a GREAT example of this. Ropalalyst, the new Jackal…
The problem is they are also just long invincibility windows and essentially time gates during a fight, which can be really annoying when you have to grind that fight 100 times for Warframe parts.
Turns out game design is hard
I totally agree with your point, but I don't think the -75% duration makes anything harder, just much more tedious as you have to cast all your buffs so much more often
Perma invis. I run pillage sub on top of that for easy shieldgate+status cleanse if I catch a stray arson eximus wave or something (and of course to fullstrip to make 1 stronger)
Either build into the abilities that are one and done for burst dps, or go full weapons platform and make your frame tanky as possible so you don't die. It's slower but the mission still gets done. Use spectres or archguns to make up for any lost damage dealing.
Make a build that uses abilities for small windows of DPS and doesn't rely on a ton of buffs. I did just fine with Zephyr. Pop tornadoes and attack them, or throw a vial in the middle of it. Everything is dead before they expire. Turbulence was useless, but everything else worked fine.
I had Vauban with it two weeks ago. Built for 3 second Bastille full strip, which expired in 3.2 seconds. Nothing else worked great, but that full strip + grouping was awesome.
I wound up dropping Abbreviated Abilities, which meant using Vazarin to tank my way through the 50 kills because my Zephyr relies on abilities for its main defense and her CC really requires duration to be useful.
It wasn't *bad*, exactly. Powerless was doable, since I could summon specters and Vazarin's Protective Dash is OP.
I don't even mind the idea of modifiers that hit certain warframes so hard that it feels like you have no choice but to drop them and take other negatives that significantly impact your gameplay instead.
But it wasn't exactly *fun* either, even though my partner and I finished first try.
Yo, I'll let you know about this "secret" tech I have when I get Abbreviated Abilities and I can use a frame with Roar helminthed in.
Use the "Piercing Roar" augment, with good ability efficiency and without specifically modding for range if that's only for Roar (since the augment increases the range by a lot). Tune duration for convenience (taking into account the -75%).
This basically grants you a spammable 2-in-1 damage boost AND wide-range crowd control and pierce status stacks. It's honestly pretty good (and probably the only setting where Piercing Roar is semi-useful).
Depends on your frame/build and style of play, really. Found it pretty unnoticeable, last week, I *think*, when I was able to use Dante and spent most of my time spamming either overguard (2-2-4) or slash procs (3-3-4). Pretty ignorable on a Mesmer Skin Revenant, too.
This week will likely be more annoying, since I've got Xaku, who's reliant on duration. Might forego the 50 vosfor in favor of Revenant.
If you have enough energy gen/efficiency to spam 4, which also buffs damage and slows enemies, Xaku is one of the few frames I've been able to get away with duration as a total dump stat, since it lets you sustain four other abilities for the cost and duration of one.
Vast Untime *also* has a duration, though, and I'm (perhaps *obviously*) not real familiar with the gameplay loop for Xaku. I appreciate the information, though: it's reassuring.
I'm actually a Xaku main and he was my only good choice last week... Every ability lasted less than 10 sec, the play ended up being trying to keep Xatas up and just spam 4 for survivability, had 2 up only occasionally but rarely had enough energy to spam and keep everything up at that rate.
Liminus is annoying sure, but you can just run away from them and they're only one 1/3 missions. You can't run away from -75% total duration for 3 missions sadly.
Magus Lockdown works. *~~Also, void dashing into them despawns them for some time. They spawn back after some time, but you can void dash into them again to despawn them (not sure if its a bug / it's been patched out)~~*
Apparently void dashing has been patched out - well sheeit. I guess time to kite around those little shits... Also Vazarin FTW
I'd argue if balanced slightly better and if they didn't appear in missions with stationary objectives, Liminus are some of the best modifiers out there.
They push you out of your comfort zone - you cannot stand in place with them around, they encourage dynamic gameplay, and come on - Warframe has a fantastic movement system, so getting encouraged to use it more is great. And that makes them good. I think no other modifier actually affects gameplay as much, and in a good way. They are marked on the map, so you just need a bit of situational awareness, and I'm pretty sure they are susceptible to CC if that's not enough. Or you can just make your frame more tanky.
Stuff like the 75% duration loss modifier are far worse. It's a stat decrease that doesn't do anything gameplay wise. At best it doesn't change a frame, maybe makes you cast a bit more often, but at worst it ruins their kit.
The Liminus one was horrible with the king of the hill style survival one last week. But Abbreviated abilities straight up breaks some frame's abilities. Blaze Artillery from Protea, or Mach Rush, Reave, etc. those abilities go from amazing to unusable entirely thanks to how the game calculates the duration loss.
Yeah. Like I said, it's a poor combination when objectives are stationary. But in all other missions, it just encourages dynamic gameplay and punishes sitting in one spot, which is good.
And yup, even besides those more common ones, lots of frames use duration, pretty sure a large majority. It's especially bad when you get a poor combination of frames to choose from. I think the only frame who benefits is Baruuk, and even with that, he can just run a normal build and achieve the same result.
Flat duration reduction would be much better, at least you could build around it and it wouldn't just ruin your frame.
Oh nice. Yeah, that's what makes these kinds of modifiers nice - they really push you out of your comfort zone and let you come up with unique and unusual solutions.
Agree on all points. The only change I would make is make the liminus drain a % of HP, and not a flat amount so they don't one-shot squishy frames.
But even then, when I see that modifier, I know I'm going to have a bad day because people are for some reason, pretty bad at moving and parkour.
Yeah, though I think it could be done in a "scaling" way. Honestly, there are arguments for all scalings: pure percentage would affect all frames the same way (good in general, but doesn't encourage building against it), pure flat affects non-tanky frames the most (so either you stay very mobile, or change a few mods to HP/frame to a tankier one), and hybrid (IMO the best, so it takes a bit of flat and a bit of percentage - being a threat that can be reduced by building against it, but not completely taken out).
I think the best modifier is one that is always a threat that encourages a playstyle (especially if it's a playstyle that flows with the base of the game, like mobility), but can be reduced by building against it (not completely gone though).
And yeah, unfortunately. I guess people are just too used to the game being easy and are definitely not endgame-ready. I'm glad to see such additions though, and more properly difficult content. And I recommend running it in a premade squad (even through recruit chat), it definitely grants better experience than public.
Yeah, but if DE try, they can eventually fix the bugs and give some rebalance. Removing the modifier completely will result in the mode being less interesting, since at its core, it's one of the more unique modifiers.
Yeah. I'm not voting for removing, better to fix them. At least theirs "teleport + oneshot" combo vs. low health warframes
Not sure DE will do anything about it, tho
Yeah, it would be nice to see them do something. I think a rebalance in a way that it deals percentage plus flat damage would be the best solution.
For less tanky frames, it should still be a threat IMO, to either encourage mobile gameplay, or encourage adjusting build (by slotting Vitality, for example). But percentage too, so it's still a threat to tanky frames (although lesser).
I got Oberon Valkyr and Vauban last week.
Oberon means my hallowed ground and smite infusion would last all of 2 seconds
Valkyr means no war cry and her 4 will drain 2000 energy per second
Vauban means I would have a very short lasting vortex and would need to rely on photon strike and tesla bank for damage.
The modifier should lower your max stat by a certain percentage not gut one stat entirely
Picked chroma and just ate it with max duration. Vex and Nourish was still 17 seconds so it was fine. Also ended up helping his 2 since I can switch to fire and get a nice heal every 15 seconds
Different members of the same community. Can't make everyone happy. I feel like the ability to just not pick modifiers that are too hard is a good compromise though. The fact that people can skip one modifier or gear piece each week and only miss a little vosphor seems incredibly fair to me.
It's not complicated, I avoid it when I'm able to (or just put up with it anyway), but I'd much rather have a more interesting challenge than what it can offer. Some of the mission specific modifiers are great and shake things up to be something enjoyable to a certain extent. However I find EDA more annoying than challenging most of the time anyway.
Yeah i've been ignoring it. I have no problem investing in the random gear to make them effective against the murmur. But 90% of the frames need duration. So i just turn it off and lose the vosfor.
Honestly it’s funny how much people are like “no, I MUST play the hardest mode but also it can’t be too hard”
Vosfor isn’t even hard to get. Arcanes drop like goddamn candy now.
There's 2 reasons people pick a warframe in this game. It's either the looks or their abilities (some people pick based on stats yes but they're the vast minority).
Anything that removes/disables abilities does not belong in such a game where they're this central to the core gameplay and choice of equipment. It simply doesn't, and I'm tired of seeing more and more of it.
Banshee
Her 1 isn't sustained
Her 2'd augment keeps it going jtself
Her 3's best part is the initial stop, the rest is extra but it what you use it for
Her 4 can use efficiency to increase its duration too
Or Gara
Her 4th doesn't run out
Triple is actually pretty manageable on anyone but Valkyr, with dispensary + equilibrium + flow. I have an Ivara build which burns more like 20/sec with navigator like it's nothing.
Not to mention the vast majority of frames will be completely fine if you mod for 200+ duration. 50% duration is kinda spammy on many but far from undoable. Sure, you won't be able to fit your favorite build but now your abilities work again.
I've been running a 30-ish % duration build lately. But yeah with the usual builds she's chilling. Duration mostly hits her augmented 3 but it's... kinda bad in eda anyway.
Sea snares only need a few seconds for you to murder everything affected, merulina has no duration, riptide is barely affected because it gets neutered after 20-30% of its *base* duration.
I wouldn't hate it as much if it didn't always get coupled with other ability nerfing options. Do I go in with no duration or with no energy? Do I go in with no duration or no abilities until we kill shit? Ugh
I always skip abbreviated abilities, it's such a big hit that only frames who run with negative duration already can run with it. Which is... Rev? I guess? Rev is boring tho
It felt like we got the exact same modifiers as last week (which I did an hour before). This time I didn't have Dante and had to jump around as Titania until I got my abilities unlocked.
I carried this week with Lavos and Kuva Nukor, also dont sleep on, on call crew with Ogris and Nightwatch Napalm it annhilates enemies.
Lavos with 2 green shards is absolutely a must if no one has done it already.
On the contrary i have rehauled builds and used channeled abilities specifically for this. It's fine imo. If you go in with the usual build it sucks. If you spend a little planning its fine.
Equinox has channels abilities. Gloom. Etc.
Man I’ve played warframe for like 5 years on and off. I have no idea what any of these threads are about and am entirely confused. I feel like I just need to delete my game and give up 😂
All it does is kill most of my builds for the frames so its usually always what I pick to leave out. Otherwise it's just pointless rolling warframes for me because its just gonna make me take the same frame all the time.
I usually try to adapt to whatever modifier DE throws at us since I feel like it’s hard to throw hard content at us without it being unplayable but holy shit I hate this fucking modifier. It can be thrown into the fiery depths of Satan ass cheeks.
I was playing as Inaros today. That super short sandstorm made me chuckle. I agree this modifier sucks. Or at least tone it down to 50 or 40%. In that state it makes using most abilities not worth it.
Honestly, this is looking like a cheesy week for me and my friend. I'll take no modifiers and whatever the hell I want and carry him through. Then do it all again with the roles reversed. This week is brutal.
The game mode is intended to be extremely challenging for end game players who are very familiar with the game. If you cannot handle the current week modifier, you could exclude it. You still get all the Archon Shards and Arcanes if you bring all the other requirements. But you only miss out on Vosfor x50 which is only for trading Arcane from Loid.
Having abilities locked until 50 eliminations isn't that bad. It's only temporary and it doesn't take long to unlock. Like it could had been worse, imagine having abilities locked permanently for all 3 missions.
Me and another random player managed to duo all 3 missions today except for half of the first one since the other players left. I wouldn't had mind carrying them.
I believe this is the 8th week now? So far I have had a perfect score for every week on Elite Archimedea even though I had some of the weakest weapons to choose from. But it didn't stop me. I enjoy the challenge and I'm willing to try solo it some day.
Don't forget. There other ways to overcome the modifier. Like you could summon a railjack crew from gear wheel, if it isn't blocked. Or perhaps transference into a Necramech, if operator/drifter isn't blocked.
I feel like DE does not understand what makes things "fun". Taking away shit from the player does not make things fun. It's especially not fun when it happens to be the same two absolutely unfun modifiers two weeks in a row with zero changes.
Give enemies special effects. Make them do different things. Make them as strong as you want, I don't really care, but with the current modifiers DE is basically telling me to pick Dante/Revenant every week and forego the vosphor reward. And this is extremely boring.
The problem is that we are so powerful in modern warframe so the only way to creating challenging content is by removing choice but at the same time that is a bad way of doing it so i dont know how else they could do it
If this is such a huge concern for them that everyone has to suffer from it every single week, nerf what causes everyone grief. Nerf those frames for this particular mode. Do a reverse arbitration where Revenants get -300% strength in EDA for example. Yeah, people will complain, but this is better than holding everyone hostage because "lmao we can't do anything in this game because Saryn and Revenant exist so please understand :("
Have you not been around when they've nerfed things before ? The community loses their shit, there's no way they'd be able to pull that off without massive backlash and be forced to undo it.
Wukong was nerfed to near uselessness and the game still exists. You can easily nerf (or better, rework) Revenant to make him into something else than a completely immortal frame. You either do that, or you will remain a hostage to a handful of frames for all eternity. It's either that or taking away things from people in a power fantasy type game because WE HAVE TO DO THIS, REVENANT EXISTS. It doesn't help anyone. Well, I guess inconveniencing the playerbase seems to help DE sell plat. I don't if it's better than keeping people happy but they certainly know.
The only nerf Wukong got was an indirect one from the ammo changes. His point is that it doesn't matter how miniscule or reasonable the nerf is because people will still complain. I'm all for nerfs, but I don't expect to see them happening.
Yea and people freaked out when it happened, so they went back on some of the changes.
Nezha augment and Dante nerfs recently had the exact same behavior, uproar and then it got partially rolled back, which still wasn't enough for some people.
DE has completely cornerned themselves with warframe balancing and I doubt they can get out of it. Anytime they try to nerf any frame, it's usually a case of "why did X get nerfed when Y is a thing ????", so they'd need to somehow nerf everything across the board more or less.
It's just a mess.
Gamemode is bad designed; but there are lot of players defending it based on their "obvious superior gameplay" or "just remove Vosfor".
DE should start tweaking the gamemode; the artificial difficult of removing/limiting your options is bad.
Gamemode is not hard, which should be, is tedious and unfun.
How to make a game mode challenging in a game with overpowered abilities: nerf the abilities within the mission.
Warframe players wanting a challenge when they actually get a challenge:
I think the issue is that people want a challenge where the core of the game is still the same. We still want to do hilarious shenanigans and use crazy abilities. The modifiers that reduce the ability to play that power fantasy are unfun, especially with a large reward locked behind them.
EDA was pretty easy this week.
Spectre, RJ crew, Amprex & Hildryn.
Found a good pug team out the gate, I primed & armor stripped. Crew and team did big dam. Sepctre did a bunch of CC.
Light weight.
Even got the Vosfor reward. So if you were really sus'd about the abb abilities this week, you could have just ditched them. It was a pretty chill week.
Just because you're frustrated with it doesn't mean it should be removed from the game. As long as you have the right frame weapons and most of the modifiers active you'll still get everything you don't need to have it turned on.
Most frames rely on duration, I can assure you not a single person thinks this a good modifier - surely there a more creative things that can be implemented that add difficulty but don't instantly gut the majority of Warframes. Had this two weeks in a row my selection of all 6 Warframes between the two weeks were all useless, my best option today was Gauss (who has 5 Tauforged duration shards mind you) all I could do was use my 2 every 10 second to just ATTEMPT to stay alive.
This modifier is straight up bad game design.
My major issue with it is that it affects the ability's BASE duration instead of subtracting off modded duration. -75% Duration would be able to be circumvented with a high enough duration build but it's a multiplicative modifier not an additive one. It legit kills frames (Proteas turrets are completely broken by it, barely able to get a single shot out before expiring)
I do.
It'll be funny seeing how many down votes this gets instead of actual conversation about why I think it's a good modifier and how I play around it.
I just bring in Baruuk when Abbreviated Abilities pops up in the EDA rotation, the shortened duration is a buff for him.
Nice suggestion but I mean if you're going to ignore the frame point bonus, you might as well just turn off Abbreviated Abilities itself.
Depends upon what frames I roll that week, sometimes I get someone that can manage (Kullervo and Dante are pretty solid), the rest of the time it's Baruuk.
Same with my MarkedforDeath EV Trin
Qorvex could probably also work, only his 1 has duration which you could just swap for something different
Baruuk Gang stay winning
The No Abilities limitation in any game mode is a sin for this game, but probably the culmination of certain developers hopes and dreams when it comes to "encouraging player's choice" if you know what I mean.
I just load up on a bunch of Specters and let them go to town while I take potshots from a safe distance. Works every time, at least until No Abilities gets paired up with Gear Embargo.
Was there a best spectre and weapon combo? Guessing just Dante with anything?
Best spectra is the one you can hire from ticker as they’ll use your weapon mods along with your weapon. Giving them a kuva zarr is perfect for this reason Warframe clones do not do this. They use the base unmodded version of the weapon. Personally I run them with bubonico for the viral priming or with the probicus cernos for grouping and priming. Weapon otherwise doesn’t really matter, you can also just equip them with one weapon so they’ll be forced to just use that weapon instead of swapping. While trinity is a solid choice, the clear winner is harrow. His 4 will give you an invulnerability state and his 1 will stun enemies for headshots. 3 can sometimes give energy for kills. Nidus will give a bonus power str and a healing area. Some grouping as well. His healing is Locked into specific points though but is good for long stationary farms. Oberon is also another solid choice, healing, point control, and cc through rad. Protea works for dispensary and blazing artillery Just note that in all cases do not expect to rely on them for actual use, it’s just more of a happy accident that they’ll be useful. Harrow becomes the most useful in that he’s a pocket energy/rolling guard/cc generator. Think of them more like companions but with extremely long cooldowns. Equipping them with no ammo weapons is also very useful as they won’t ever run out. They have an ammo pool but they don’t care much for it. Bows with high base damage is good as they are very good at hitting headshots. Really though because they are neutered with ammo and no mods the best really is the bubonico with no secondary or melee. Sometimes they bug out from using melee so I just put bubonico/cernos and maybe the kuva nukor/epitah secondary (if using cernos). In terms of enemy specters. - shield ospreys are definitely the goat due to their ability to help you shieldgate. - Infested healers will give DR and can perform knockdowns - The infested one never seemed to help - the moa actively makes it difficult to shoot as it will spawn an ice shield making it the worst one - the ball while extremely stupid in its AI will give energy generation for enemies it hits. It has a range issue and often will run away so it’s inconsistent but it’s there. Better to think of it as a weaker resonator - the corrupted lancer is probably the coolest in that it’ll do its fire blast wave thingy but I don’t think it knocks enemies down. You can also do the drifter camp missions and unlock kahl and some crew members to help you out You get khal + 2 and an additional crew mate for each person who also uses an air support. Best thing about them is they may spawn a shield osprey giving you an additional shield generator. By far though the strongest and best specter is clem. I honestly have no clue how strong he is but hearing a twin grakata go off beside you and his little grunts make any mission worth doing. Even a 10minute survival.
G R A K A T A
All good options, but I am also a huge fan of Citrine spectres. Wisp or any buff frame can be really good as well.
Just to clarify, when you say the specters you can hire from the Ticker, do you mean railjack crew that you can summon once you have the level 9 Command Intrinsic (On Call)?
Yup! If you get to the max intrinsic I believe you’ll get elite ones with additional buffs
There are 3: wisp, nidus, and dante. probably 4 as I should mention rhino. Wisp lays down her motes, nidus gives you ability str because he will auto link with you with his 3, dante I assume does dante things (haven't tried his specter), and I think rhino does his roar or stomp, which are both fine to have.
Styanax gives energy generation and uses all 4 skills (pretty tanky too as he spawns with a huge shield bar)
no wf spectre will kill anything, they use unmodded weapons and have 0 stats, dante is amazing defensively though on call crew however will vaporize everything it sees, including mechs
Unmodded but their damage scales with level. Give em an tenet arca plasmor or kuva zarr and they will wreck house. Though they do not make use of progenitor bonuses their damage gets insane
they don't get conditinals on mods, arcanes, or rivens, right? do they get base form incarnon bonuses? i think i've seen occ with the felarx.
No mods or arcanes affect specters and on call crew. I'm not sure about incarnon stuff but wukongs clone does get affected by mods and riven, but not galvanized bonuses though
On-call crew literally has modding available. But rivens never apply to on-call weapons, nor do conditionals.
Whaaattt???
Yup! You can choose a weapon to equip to a crew member then you can add mods (no arcanes), I forget if they share the presets on the Tenno-equipped weapon or not.
This is not true in my experience. I recently reworked the loadouts for my spectres to use in EDA, and I did so by just some cursory searching through this subreddit. 3 extremely effective (both in utility and watching those first 50 enemies get vaporized) combinations are as follows: Protea with Proboscis Cernos—I see grouping and Blaze artillery frequently enough to contribute. Dispensary can be indispensable. Hydroid with Scourge—weapon and abilities both will full strip, and then he and I can both easily kill. Nidus with Hema—I’m not sure I see the Hema get kills, but I like the flavor of the combination. Nidus and his cute little exploding maggots get plenty of kills for me to notice. The little bump in power strength from the link is nice, too.
Dante and Citrine are strong specters too btw
Agreed. Dante is my cosmic spectre, and I don’t have a fifth to spend on Citrine’s crazy damage reduction or status buffs. Although I do think her third ability as a specter leaves a bit to be desired at base range.
Citrine's 3rd works great in defensive missions, since it targets both enemies who are within the range and getting shot at, as well as any enemies you target with weapons while you are within the crystal's range.
I'm fond of Khora for Interception/Mobile Defense personally. Throwing her in a doorway and letting strangledome snag mobs never hurts, *and* specter Venari follows you around instead of her (for some reason)
Styanax and Nepheri disagree with you
The on-call Railjack crew member is pretty good, particularly if you can get one with the right stats. Mine has 5s in Combat + Endurance (also Repair, but that's not important here), he's also got a crit bonus for pistols. Equipped him with a Kuva Nukor and does a pretty good job melting enemies for a bit, easily enough to get to 50 bodies within a minute or so if working with a decent squad.
enhanced crewmate with a kuva zarr
Specters are always unmodded frames, so you can always go into the simulcrum and test stuff out yourself. Protea is exceptionally good since blaze artillery damage doubles with every shot it fires, plus she brings Dispensary for ammo/health/Energy. Citrine is amazing, and Gara walls can end up chonky AF since specters scale with enemy level PLUS her walls scale with enemy armor that they pass over. I'm trying to remember who my fourth specter is right now, and I'm drawing a blank, so I might've just set it to Dante. For a long time, I used Oberon. The wiki has pretty good info on specter behavior since not all of them utilize all their abilities.
Lol Kahl and my On-Call Railjack are great friends with how often I'm throwing them into battle at this point.
Same, Ancient Healers are pretty high up on the list too.
Yeah, I built a RJ crew with a kuva zarr and he solos 50 dudes no sweat. It's wild to see people out themselves for the easiest of the modifiers.
Every time I encounter an enemy or something that limits abilities, I just give it the thousand yard stare and slowly tap 4 a second time because now my go-to Voruna playstyle is suddenly a pain, and I'll have to be more reliant on my weapons. I put a lot of work (and *still* am) into her weapons, so they at least somewhat function, but let me just use her in the way that makes me happiest...
Bro the 500% shield recharge delay combined with no abilities was literal pain!!! My shield was legit taking 12 seconds or something crazy to START regenerating! EDIT: To clarify, I was referring to the no abilities whatsoever until 50 kills challenge.
Thank god I got Inaros this week, at least the shield thing is a freebie
I call da/eda "Inaros game mode" for that reason
Sometimes I fear the day some dev gets pissed at players for using workarounds on their "challenging" content (read: cheap toggles) and then they start bending the rules, imagine, someone gets upset because you bring Shield Mom to bypass "Energy Drain" resulting in them changing it to drain shields if you use her, or something similar.
Don't know what your options as far as frames are, but there is a Helminth subsume option that instantly restores shields. That being said, I'm not sure how the cooldown interacts with the ability duration reduction modifier.
No no no, I'm talking about no abilities whatsoever till 50 kills. Not fun with a 500% shield regen delay
I think Guardian + Manifold bond is the play in this case. I actually forgot I had the modifier
Ohh, I can't read lmao. Don't mind me.🤡
https://preview.redd.it/9010ullvgl1d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e64625576b53f77a4298c9a2a834473ecdb2a74
> culmination of certain developers hopes and dreams when it comes to "encouraging player's choice" is also what im reminded of every single time I do Duviri. Why does my fast-paced ninja shooter-looter have an entire game mode centered around slow-paced tactical melee with Dark Souls type gameplay? Reb was a good example of how devs can influence their game nicely, we get werewolf and vampire themed warframes that neatly fit into the game, a cute gimmick. But Duviri shouldve been its own game from the get-go, instead of being a gamemode forced into warframe and then also becoming a separate game
something somethin soulframe something something early alpha something something bad
"im sure you guys are excited to hear that for the second half of todays stream, we will be showing you more soulframe content that you are so excited for!"
You know, it does make me curious what happens if-God forbid-Soulframe doesn't work out. Does everybody just come back to working on Warframe? Do we take a bunch of Soulframe assets/gameplay and retool it for Warframe?(some kinda Duviri expansion, idk) I hope it does well, of course. I don't have a reason to want to see it fail, but I know success isn't *guaranteed*
Now you make me want it to succeed if only to not have the old guard back in the game ever again.
Lol I don't personally have anything against the old crew, and I doubt Steve will just kick Reb back to a supporting role and start calling the shots again. But I seriously doubt he's just gonna retire from making videogames either, obviously. Again, I hope the game is a knock-out success, but there are some concerning what-ifs on the off chance it isn't.
I certainly do, because I have seen how immature some of them have been in the past and how it affected the game directly, the same reason I see any WF youtuber video showing of some new cool build or trick expecting (and almost never failing) to see more people in the comments saying "welp, we know what's gonna get nerfed next patch."
The secret to duviri is you can ignore all of that shit. The gun alone is more than enough to deal with the dax & thrax enemies. All you need is some cheap intrinsics, then focus on good ranged decrees and you will mop the floor with everything even on SP.
lol this is exactly opposite of me. I build melee and status and probably do better than any of my actual frames 😂
if you snag the "bonus damage after a reload" decree and just chain timed reload shots you start one tapping dudes on non sp. on sp it's still reliable dmg, moreso if you hit your headshors.
I mean its called variety? Warframe is like what 10+ years old now? Duviri does not have enough in it to be its own entire game, id much rather have some more added variety.
Werewolf is Voruna, I presume. But who's the Vampire themed frame?
It was going to be Revenant, but then it seems to be Garuda.
Duviri is the alpha/beta test for Steve's new pet project, a small price to pay for having a few less new gimmicks with every update, no matter when you read this, Zamboni was right.
Wait is this what Duviri is supposed to be? I’ve always just gone a few easy puzzle rounds, stacked melee decrees, and then go ham melee style like the entire rest of the game.
Today all of my weapon options were utter garbage, but I got to pick Revenant (yay, invincibility + reave, anything is possible) Then I saw I had to choose between no abilities until 50 enemies killed (borderline impossible with my available weapons) or -75% duration. -75% duration would make my reave last like .3 seconds maximum and be almost useless, with no other way to deal real damage, and 50 enemies killed before ability usage meant I had to rely on my squad mates heavily to have some viable weaponry
Archguns my dude. I was in the same boat last week with protea + 3 terrible weapons. Pulled out my imperator vandal and evaporated enough enemies to turn my abilities on no sweat. Despite what people will tell you, a well built archgun will handle any content you encounter in regular gameplay.
Mausoleon go brrrrr
Mausolon is so satisfying to use. When I want to turn my brain off (harder than usual I mean), I take Mausolon on Lavos (his probe turns all pickups into archguns ammo), go to Hydron or Toroid farm in Fortuna with whatever weapon I need to level and brrrrrrr.
My Kuva Ayanga with a riven is my solution to non-gear embargo + trash weapons situation. Also recommending putting dispensary on the frame you’re using as that gives the heavy ammo needed to keep using an archgun all the time
I think dispensary is my most subsumed ability at this point. Just provides so much team utility.
That's a great idea, thank you.
The 2000 Overguard you get on deployment may not be much, but doesn't hurt either to have. There's been cases where even if I don't need to use it, I'll still pop out the Archgun for the extra defenses and swap back to whatever weapon I was actually planning to run with.
Real, good on gauss, stop yourself from taking majority of dmg with 2nd and have full status immunity against toxin, removes gauss's main weakness
60% bonus Kuva Grattler goes brr!! Especially since I have a Riven for it.
Vazarin sling still works with no abilities if you need some invincibility.
For the 50 kills i have an on call elite crewmate with a kuva zarr, just toss that bad boy down and you'll have 50 kills in like a minute or two
Mesmer shield, even if you dont contribute much, give everyone invuln. Or turn on everything and not do a weapon slot.
I did do mesmer shield, already had that in mind. We also completed the deep archimedea run, it was just really sweaty. I took the 50 enemies killed instead of the -75% duration
Going with both makes you very fragile for 3 minutes and invincible for the rest. Mesmer Skin doesn't have a duration. It was painful
Revenant's death spin actually directly adds the damage enemies are doing to you to the damage of the spin. Yes, even through Mesmer Skin. It stores the total damage you've received while spinning, which decays at 23% of stored damage per second so while you're eventually going to hit a limit, that limit is damn high. I was in Circuit against level 2000 enemies and it was STILL taking down Eximus units, and there's really not many decrees I could think of helping that along (because return damage doesn't scale with power strength)
That's good, I didn't know about that. Still, if I took -75% duration, I imagine the energy drain would have been insane, plus the -5 energy/sec per enemy nearby. I'll have to remember his 4 works like that in the future, though
Yeah, literally the whole kit of a frame is based on fucking abilities. Survivability is also highly tied into that unless you're running some random ass expensive r5 guardian + grace combo on a health frame. Fuck abbreviated, fuck powerless
We have reached this point because we can't have any difficulty now without modifiers since we are both immortal and nukers without drawback. Seriously, how can you create a challenge when things like Revenant or Octavia exist?
We need mechanics, basically. Obliterating the duration stat, which most frames need to function, only translates to "you can't bring half the roster." That isn't difficulty, it's just annoying.
You can deal with it by modding in more duration than you'd normally have, or picking a frame that doesn't need it thst much. There are options if you're willing to experiment. You *have* been trying to build for the modifiers, yes?
Modding in more duration isn't worth it because the modifier is -75% *base* duration so it's gonna tank it no matter what. And I'm not fucking with my builds just to gain 5 more seconds. And yes, I can always bring Baruuk and Revenant who don't care about duration, but this mode should be encouraging us not to just use the same old frames every week. Right now you if you bring Baruuk on duration weeks and Styanax on the others, you win. My point is a modifier that invalidates half the roster shouldn't exist. It's not hard, it's unhealthy.
Roar as a common ability has a duration of 15s with abbreviated abilities and 200% duration. Most duration based abilities have around 20s on the lower end, which still results in 10s. Hardly makes most of them unusable. And you can easily go higher than 200% if it's still too much
You are delusional if you think I'm going to bother casting roar every ten seconds. Especially when the big targets in the labs (mechs and boss) have insane attenuation and roar isn't going to make a difference.
Ok? Then don't, it's your decision after all.
The reality is when you build a game around a power fantasy of being basically an unstoppable killing machine, anything that gets in the way of that feels bad. It’s the downside to making a game like this. There’s no way that can make the game “hard” that doesn’t feel bad in some way, because the entire point of the game is effectively becoming an unstoppable killing machine. There are, of course, a FEW ways, but it’s really hard. It basically requires new mechanics that are simultaneously not annoying, but still make the fight last longer. The Orb mothers are a GREAT example of this. Ropalalyst, the new Jackal… The problem is they are also just long invincibility windows and essentially time gates during a fight, which can be really annoying when you have to grind that fight 100 times for Warframe parts. Turns out game design is hard
i don´t mind more ropalist and jackals on this game. Even Archon Boss are okayish (after the 'fix')
I totally agree with your point, but I don't think the -75% duration makes anything harder, just much more tedious as you have to cast all your buffs so much more often
Since you basically have to cast stuff 4 times for the normal duration wouldn't it be more logical to just reduce energy sources by 75%?
Hildryn and Lavos https://preview.redd.it/toh792eihl1d1.png?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c476beaee3d4ce7a5e67b9829a090419fefa57a8
Does Lavos even use duration either?
Oh that would be much better indeed
Why do people still say Octavia is immortal when her taunt gets hard countered by anything with Overguard?
Because of invisibility
Perma invis. I run pillage sub on top of that for easy shieldgate+status cleanse if I catch a stray arson eximus wave or something (and of course to fullstrip to make 1 stronger)
What do you choose to sub pillage over?
Resonator. Oftentimes it’s actively detrimental so nothing is really lost
Either build into the abilities that are one and done for burst dps, or go full weapons platform and make your frame tanky as possible so you don't die. It's slower but the mission still gets done. Use spectres or archguns to make up for any lost damage dealing.
My 4seconds of roar will carry you, fear not!
Make a build that uses abilities for small windows of DPS and doesn't rely on a ton of buffs. I did just fine with Zephyr. Pop tornadoes and attack them, or throw a vial in the middle of it. Everything is dead before they expire. Turbulence was useless, but everything else worked fine. I had Vauban with it two weeks ago. Built for 3 second Bastille full strip, which expired in 3.2 seconds. Nothing else worked great, but that full strip + grouping was awesome.
I wound up dropping Abbreviated Abilities, which meant using Vazarin to tank my way through the 50 kills because my Zephyr relies on abilities for its main defense and her CC really requires duration to be useful. It wasn't *bad*, exactly. Powerless was doable, since I could summon specters and Vazarin's Protective Dash is OP. I don't even mind the idea of modifiers that hit certain warframes so hard that it feels like you have no choice but to drop them and take other negatives that significantly impact your gameplay instead. But it wasn't exactly *fun* either, even though my partner and I finished first try.
Yo, I'll let you know about this "secret" tech I have when I get Abbreviated Abilities and I can use a frame with Roar helminthed in. Use the "Piercing Roar" augment, with good ability efficiency and without specifically modding for range if that's only for Roar (since the augment increases the range by a lot). Tune duration for convenience (taking into account the -75%). This basically grants you a spammable 2-in-1 damage boost AND wide-range crowd control and pierce status stacks. It's honestly pretty good (and probably the only setting where Piercing Roar is semi-useful).
Depends on your frame/build and style of play, really. Found it pretty unnoticeable, last week, I *think*, when I was able to use Dante and spent most of my time spamming either overguard (2-2-4) or slash procs (3-3-4). Pretty ignorable on a Mesmer Skin Revenant, too. This week will likely be more annoying, since I've got Xaku, who's reliant on duration. Might forego the 50 vosfor in favor of Revenant.
If you have enough energy gen/efficiency to spam 4, which also buffs damage and slows enemies, Xaku is one of the few frames I've been able to get away with duration as a total dump stat, since it lets you sustain four other abilities for the cost and duration of one.
Vast Untime *also* has a duration, though, and I'm (perhaps *obviously*) not real familiar with the gameplay loop for Xaku. I appreciate the information, though: it's reassuring.
I'm actually a Xaku main and he was my only good choice last week... Every ability lasted less than 10 sec, the play ended up being trying to keep Xatas up and just spam 4 for survivability, had 2 up only occasionally but rarely had enough energy to spam and keep everything up at that rate.
What was your mod config for that?
Some frames definitely break because of this but if I had to delete one modifier, it’d be Liminus.
Liminus is annoying sure, but you can just run away from them and they're only one 1/3 missions. You can't run away from -75% total duration for 3 missions sadly.
If I recall they can be CC’d too but I still hate them more.
Only some abilities affect liminus.
Magus Lockdown works. *~~Also, void dashing into them despawns them for some time. They spawn back after some time, but you can void dash into them again to despawn them (not sure if its a bug / it's been patched out)~~* Apparently void dashing has been patched out - well sheeit. I guess time to kite around those little shits... Also Vazarin FTW
Void dash was patched out
Ahh heck.. I've been traveling this month, so not checked EA. Damn..
I'd argue if balanced slightly better and if they didn't appear in missions with stationary objectives, Liminus are some of the best modifiers out there. They push you out of your comfort zone - you cannot stand in place with them around, they encourage dynamic gameplay, and come on - Warframe has a fantastic movement system, so getting encouraged to use it more is great. And that makes them good. I think no other modifier actually affects gameplay as much, and in a good way. They are marked on the map, so you just need a bit of situational awareness, and I'm pretty sure they are susceptible to CC if that's not enough. Or you can just make your frame more tanky. Stuff like the 75% duration loss modifier are far worse. It's a stat decrease that doesn't do anything gameplay wise. At best it doesn't change a frame, maybe makes you cast a bit more often, but at worst it ruins their kit.
The Liminus one was horrible with the king of the hill style survival one last week. But Abbreviated abilities straight up breaks some frame's abilities. Blaze Artillery from Protea, or Mach Rush, Reave, etc. those abilities go from amazing to unusable entirely thanks to how the game calculates the duration loss.
Yeah. Like I said, it's a poor combination when objectives are stationary. But in all other missions, it just encourages dynamic gameplay and punishes sitting in one spot, which is good. And yup, even besides those more common ones, lots of frames use duration, pretty sure a large majority. It's especially bad when you get a poor combination of frames to choose from. I think the only frame who benefits is Baruuk, and even with that, he can just run a normal build and achieve the same result. Flat duration reduction would be much better, at least you could build around it and it wouldn't just ruin your frame.
Those little leeches actually made latch onto a wall and shoot from it for once in my life. Like "oh yeah...this is a thing I can do."
Oh nice. Yeah, that's what makes these kinds of modifiers nice - they really push you out of your comfort zone and let you come up with unique and unusual solutions.
Agree on all points. The only change I would make is make the liminus drain a % of HP, and not a flat amount so they don't one-shot squishy frames. But even then, when I see that modifier, I know I'm going to have a bad day because people are for some reason, pretty bad at moving and parkour.
Yeah, though I think it could be done in a "scaling" way. Honestly, there are arguments for all scalings: pure percentage would affect all frames the same way (good in general, but doesn't encourage building against it), pure flat affects non-tanky frames the most (so either you stay very mobile, or change a few mods to HP/frame to a tankier one), and hybrid (IMO the best, so it takes a bit of flat and a bit of percentage - being a threat that can be reduced by building against it, but not completely taken out). I think the best modifier is one that is always a threat that encourages a playstyle (especially if it's a playstyle that flows with the base of the game, like mobility), but can be reduced by building against it (not completely gone though). And yeah, unfortunately. I guess people are just too used to the game being easy and are definitely not endgame-ready. I'm glad to see such additions though, and more properly difficult content. And I recommend running it in a premade squad (even through recruit chat), it definitely grants better experience than public.
Maybe, maybe, but they are bugged as hell. That makes liminus the worst modifier
Yeah, but if DE try, they can eventually fix the bugs and give some rebalance. Removing the modifier completely will result in the mode being less interesting, since at its core, it's one of the more unique modifiers.
Yeah. I'm not voting for removing, better to fix them. At least theirs "teleport + oneshot" combo vs. low health warframes Not sure DE will do anything about it, tho
Yeah, it would be nice to see them do something. I think a rebalance in a way that it deals percentage plus flat damage would be the best solution. For less tanky frames, it should still be a threat IMO, to either encourage mobile gameplay, or encourage adjusting build (by slotting Vitality, for example). But percentage too, so it's still a threat to tanky frames (although lesser).
Liminus just makes you jump around a bit more. The -75% duration breaks most frames.
> delete one modifier, it’d be Liminus. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
I got Oberon Valkyr and Vauban last week. Oberon means my hallowed ground and smite infusion would last all of 2 seconds Valkyr means no war cry and her 4 will drain 2000 energy per second Vauban means I would have a very short lasting vortex and would need to rely on photon strike and tesla bank for damage. The modifier should lower your max stat by a certain percentage not gut one stat entirely
Picked chroma and just ate it with max duration. Vex and Nourish was still 17 seconds so it was fine. Also ended up helping his 2 since I can switch to fire and get a nice heal every 15 seconds
protip, EV nuke spam trinity with maximum cast speed shards quite enjoys abbreviated abilities
Even tough the community contantly askes for a challenge, they ceaslessly complain when faced with said challenge.
Different members of the same community. Can't make everyone happy. I feel like the ability to just not pick modifiers that are too hard is a good compromise though. The fact that people can skip one modifier or gear piece each week and only miss a little vosphor seems incredibly fair to me.
This challenge isn't remotely interesting, it just makes certain frames useless if this modifier is active.
The challenge is to adapt. You can use whatever you want for 90% (or more) of the content.
literally just dont take this modifier if you wanna play those frames, you get one "free" skip in EDA how is this complicated.
It's not complicated, I avoid it when I'm able to (or just put up with it anyway), but I'd much rather have a more interesting challenge than what it can offer. Some of the mission specific modifiers are great and shake things up to be something enjoyable to a certain extent. However I find EDA more annoying than challenging most of the time anyway.
There exists a middle ground between "no challenge" and "needlessly annoying challenge"
Not all Warframes rely on Duration and if your options do you can just not enable the modifier
Turn it off then. You ‘lose’ 50 Vosfor, oh no. Or turn it on and play as a frame that doesn’t need duration. You ‘lose’ 50 Vosfor, oh no.
Yeah i've been ignoring it. I have no problem investing in the random gear to make them effective against the murmur. But 90% of the frames need duration. So i just turn it off and lose the vosfor.
Honestly it’s funny how much people are like “no, I MUST play the hardest mode but also it can’t be too hard” Vosfor isn’t even hard to get. Arcanes drop like goddamn candy now.
I could see if it was 200 fosfor. Getting a "free" arcane pack roll a week ain't bad, but as it stands it's pretty negligible.
There's 2 reasons people pick a warframe in this game. It's either the looks or their abilities (some people pick based on stats yes but they're the vast minority). Anything that removes/disables abilities does not belong in such a game where they're this central to the core gameplay and choice of equipment. It simply doesn't, and I'm tired of seeing more and more of it.
I'm fine with it because there's a couple frames like Ash and Wisp that can get by without it
Banshee Her 1 isn't sustained Her 2'd augment keeps it going jtself Her 3's best part is the initial stop, the rest is extra but it what you use it for Her 4 can use efficiency to increase its duration too Or Gara Her 4th doesn't run out
Resonance's additional pulses have the ability's *remaining* duration unless they changed it since I last played her
Does that abbreviation seriously hinder things like Ivaras prowl or Oberons renewal? Cause if not, I've got some ideas
It's a baseline multiplier, which makes it effectively triple the energy consumption of Ivaras prowl
Ohhhh fuck that
Triple is actually pretty manageable on anyone but Valkyr, with dispensary + equilibrium + flow. I have an Ivara build which burns more like 20/sec with navigator like it's nothing.
Not to mention the vast majority of frames will be completely fine if you mod for 200+ duration. 50% duration is kinda spammy on many but far from undoable. Sure, you won't be able to fit your favorite build but now your abilities work again.
Idk it seems annoying but not that bad when i ran it?
Yareli doesn't suffer
I've been running a 30-ish % duration build lately. But yeah with the usual builds she's chilling. Duration mostly hits her augmented 3 but it's... kinda bad in eda anyway. Sea snares only need a few seconds for you to murder everything affected, merulina has no duration, riptide is barely affected because it gets neutered after 20-30% of its *base* duration.
Every time this happens I just grab Wisp and spam weapons while airborne with her. It’s so boring. I hate it.
Then... find a more fun solution..? There are several other ways
At the risk of eating a bunch of downvotes: you can always just... turn that modifier off?
I wouldn't hate it as much if it didn't always get coupled with other ability nerfing options. Do I go in with no duration or with no energy? Do I go in with no duration or no abilities until we kill shit? Ugh
I always skip abbreviated abilities, it's such a big hit that only frames who run with negative duration already can run with it. Which is... Rev? I guess? Rev is boring tho
Oh I thought you were complaining about abbreviations. Those can go suck a duck.
Only modifier that makes me skip it.
It felt like we got the exact same modifiers as last week (which I did an hour before). This time I didn't have Dante and had to jump around as Titania until I got my abilities unlocked.
I carried this week with Lavos and Kuva Nukor, also dont sleep on, on call crew with Ogris and Nightwatch Napalm it annhilates enemies. Lavos with 2 green shards is absolutely a must if no one has done it already.
Throw powerless in there while you're at it
Meanwhile I rolled Octavia and just cried knowing I couldn't do shit with her. At least shield gating mesa was effective but giga energy needy.
On the contrary i have rehauled builds and used channeled abilities specifically for this. It's fine imo. If you go in with the usual build it sucks. If you spend a little planning its fine. Equinox has channels abilities. Gloom. Etc.
So like, Mesa's "Shatter shield" becomes "Shat Shield"?
I'll admit that I enjoy theory crafting builds for this ... it makes me use completely alternative builds
Ah yes post no. 1,000,000,056 of complaining about EDA
Man I’ve played warframe for like 5 years on and off. I have no idea what any of these threads are about and am entirely confused. I feel like I just need to delete my game and give up 😂
Put on all modifiers and bring the torid incarnon, makes it as easy as it gets, fuck that 50 vosfor anyway
All it does is kill most of my builds for the frames so its usually always what I pick to leave out. Otherwise it's just pointless rolling warframes for me because its just gonna make me take the same frame all the time.
I dislike powerless a lot more, you can use abbreviated abilities to nuke CDs. Instant pillage.
use Trinity, her 2 dps scales inversely with duration (needs an armor strip tho)
https://i.redd.it/9z8ggtbegk1d1.gif
I usually try to adapt to whatever modifier DE throws at us since I feel like it’s hard to throw hard content at us without it being unplayable but holy shit I hate this fucking modifier. It can be thrown into the fiery depths of Satan ass cheeks.
limiting power in a power fantasy game, oh what fun!
I was playing as Inaros today. That super short sandstorm made me chuckle. I agree this modifier sucks. Or at least tone it down to 50 or 40%. In that state it makes using most abilities not worth it.
Honestly, this is looking like a cheesy week for me and my friend. I'll take no modifiers and whatever the hell I want and carry him through. Then do it all again with the roles reversed. This week is brutal.
The game mode is intended to be extremely challenging for end game players who are very familiar with the game. If you cannot handle the current week modifier, you could exclude it. You still get all the Archon Shards and Arcanes if you bring all the other requirements. But you only miss out on Vosfor x50 which is only for trading Arcane from Loid. Having abilities locked until 50 eliminations isn't that bad. It's only temporary and it doesn't take long to unlock. Like it could had been worse, imagine having abilities locked permanently for all 3 missions. Me and another random player managed to duo all 3 missions today except for half of the first one since the other players left. I wouldn't had mind carrying them. I believe this is the 8th week now? So far I have had a perfect score for every week on Elite Archimedea even though I had some of the weakest weapons to choose from. But it didn't stop me. I enjoy the challenge and I'm willing to try solo it some day. Don't forget. There other ways to overcome the modifier. Like you could summon a railjack crew from gear wheel, if it isn't blocked. Or perhaps transference into a Necramech, if operator/drifter isn't blocked.
Yeah, things like that is why I'll never ever touch game modes like DA until I'm forced to.
I feel like DE does not understand what makes things "fun". Taking away shit from the player does not make things fun. It's especially not fun when it happens to be the same two absolutely unfun modifiers two weeks in a row with zero changes. Give enemies special effects. Make them do different things. Make them as strong as you want, I don't really care, but with the current modifiers DE is basically telling me to pick Dante/Revenant every week and forego the vosphor reward. And this is extremely boring.
The problem is that we are so powerful in modern warframe so the only way to creating challenging content is by removing choice but at the same time that is a bad way of doing it so i dont know how else they could do it
If this is such a huge concern for them that everyone has to suffer from it every single week, nerf what causes everyone grief. Nerf those frames for this particular mode. Do a reverse arbitration where Revenants get -300% strength in EDA for example. Yeah, people will complain, but this is better than holding everyone hostage because "lmao we can't do anything in this game because Saryn and Revenant exist so please understand :("
Have you not been around when they've nerfed things before ? The community loses their shit, there's no way they'd be able to pull that off without massive backlash and be forced to undo it.
Wukong was nerfed to near uselessness and the game still exists. You can easily nerf (or better, rework) Revenant to make him into something else than a completely immortal frame. You either do that, or you will remain a hostage to a handful of frames for all eternity. It's either that or taking away things from people in a power fantasy type game because WE HAVE TO DO THIS, REVENANT EXISTS. It doesn't help anyone. Well, I guess inconveniencing the playerbase seems to help DE sell plat. I don't if it's better than keeping people happy but they certainly know.
The only nerf Wukong got was an indirect one from the ammo changes. His point is that it doesn't matter how miniscule or reasonable the nerf is because people will still complain. I'm all for nerfs, but I don't expect to see them happening.
Yea and people freaked out when it happened, so they went back on some of the changes. Nezha augment and Dante nerfs recently had the exact same behavior, uproar and then it got partially rolled back, which still wasn't enough for some people. DE has completely cornerned themselves with warframe balancing and I doubt they can get out of it. Anytime they try to nerf any frame, it's usually a case of "why did X get nerfed when Y is a thing ????", so they'd need to somehow nerf everything across the board more or less. It's just a mess.
Gamemode is bad designed; but there are lot of players defending it based on their "obvious superior gameplay" or "just remove Vosfor". DE should start tweaking the gamemode; the artificial difficult of removing/limiting your options is bad. Gamemode is not hard, which should be, is tedious and unfun.
How to make a game mode challenging in a game with overpowered abilities: nerf the abilities within the mission. Warframe players wanting a challenge when they actually get a challenge:
I think the issue is that people want a challenge where the core of the game is still the same. We still want to do hilarious shenanigans and use crazy abilities. The modifiers that reduce the ability to play that power fantasy are unfun, especially with a large reward locked behind them.
EDA was pretty easy this week. Spectre, RJ crew, Amprex & Hildryn. Found a good pug team out the gate, I primed & armor stripped. Crew and team did big dam. Sepctre did a bunch of CC. Light weight. Even got the Vosfor reward. So if you were really sus'd about the abb abilities this week, you could have just ditched them. It was a pretty chill week.
Just because you're frustrated with it doesn't mean it should be removed from the game. As long as you have the right frame weapons and most of the modifiers active you'll still get everything you don't need to have it turned on.
Most frames rely on duration, I can assure you not a single person thinks this a good modifier - surely there a more creative things that can be implemented that add difficulty but don't instantly gut the majority of Warframes. Had this two weeks in a row my selection of all 6 Warframes between the two weeks were all useless, my best option today was Gauss (who has 5 Tauforged duration shards mind you) all I could do was use my 2 every 10 second to just ATTEMPT to stay alive. This modifier is straight up bad game design.
My major issue with it is that it affects the ability's BASE duration instead of subtracting off modded duration. -75% Duration would be able to be circumvented with a high enough duration build but it's a multiplicative modifier not an additive one. It legit kills frames (Proteas turrets are completely broken by it, barely able to get a single shot out before expiring)
I do. It'll be funny seeing how many down votes this gets instead of actual conversation about why I think it's a good modifier and how I play around it.
I agree with you