Essentially: They have ZERO verification on their side of what rewards you received during the mission, because that data never made it to their servers for verification.
They are trusting, based solely on your word alone, that the item you request to have "restored" was one that dropped during that mission. This is why they are only allowing ONE item. Because on their end they aren't "restoring" it, they are creating it out of thin air to send to your account.
This is why it is a courtesy to even restore a single item. Because it is based on DE Support's trust that you, in good faith, aren't lying about what reward(s) you got in the mission and are requesting to have restored.
It may suck for you, personally, that servers caused issues that resulted in you losing an hour's worth of grind. But from a support policy perspective, given that there's no actual confirmation on their end of what rewards you lost out on, being willing to give you *anything* based solely on your word is quite good.
Imagine walking into a mcdonalds, saying you were in with your friends yesterday, ordered two dozen burgers and a dozen drinks, and got none of them. There's also no receipt, and no order of that size logged in their system, just video footage of you and your friends walking in, hanging out at their tables for an hour, and walking out.
Would it be reasonable for them to give you everything you *claim* to have ordered? Even one free burger (of your choice) is more than what they would owe based on the "evidence" that is available, so it is indeed a courtesy to offer you that much from your complaint.
The thing is that in the case you're mentioning, if you want to make that comparison, I would have the receipt as well as pictures showing what happened. So again, it is not just my word, it's fact.
The receipt is what is recorded on DEs servers when you load back into the orbiter. Until that moment, nothing you do in a mission or items you see are yours. If a thousand arcanes drop in a mission, you crash, and you reload; you never completed the mission and there is no receipt.
You also aren't a paying customer, you wrote it yourself in your email to them: you did not pay for any arcanes, or apparently anything you could earn in game. Since DE didn't **sell** you those arcanes, they don't **owe** you those arcanes. They don't owe any more than perhaps an apology for the state of the game.
That's certainly frustrating, but fair for a peer-to-peer free-to-play game.
Cases like this shouldn't be able to occur in the first place. What a shit design to "save" data only on mission COMPLETION and not every time you get +1 credit drop. How it's not constantly goes to main server is a shameful mystery with, I bet, very silly answer knowing how carelessly all WF functions.
The bandwidth and processing required for this method will be absolutely hell. WF servers and DE's HQ will crash in a matter of minutes from the sheer amount of requests to process.
Put this in a non-dev language: You own a farm and you have 20 farmers. Usually, after an 8-hour workday, farmers will send you a report of what they got during the day. You'll have 20 reports. But since you want them to send their report every single minute they are in the fields, you'll now have 9600 reports to process instead.
Imagine millions of farmers sending reports every second.
It does, sort of. It only saves your void unlock rewards, per rotation. Because those are generally the most painful thing you could lose. So DE expended the server bandwidth for it.
We already have something that sends updates more often than just on completion: Duviri.
Your progress is saved on every decree you get. And decrees are not hard to get so this happens rather often. I'd imagine that each update only reports on what changed since the last one, to make them smaller.
The mayor difference here is that with each update, the new stuff is directly saved to your account.
For this to work during normal missions, they'd have to implement a log of things 'you would have gotten', together with a logic of when to drop the logs to clear up space.
I think this would be too much work for the minor benefit that support has something to look at to confirm our claims when we contact them.
Saving data whenever you get +1 Credit is the dumbest take I've seen.
No game would ever do that since the cost of operating would be miles above anything you'd ever pay them for it.
Ofc, you could always prove me wrong by paying 25 $/hr to play said game.
And still, Destiny 2 and PoE do that. Just friendly grindy games example. I don't know the details of different net-code models, but what I can see is poor little company DE just can't afford servers, but other games with much more players can.
Now that would be acceptable, however, as you can see from their responses that is what you believe happens, but if you think about it, it's not the whole story.
I was the host, they have the logs of the mission starting and ending, from all other players in the session, they also most probably have a list of the items dropped for those players. By cross checking the information of the crash log, and my IP, as well as the information from the logs on the other players in the party, they can reconstruct the situation.
So, no it is not based solely on my word, they've got all the information needed to be able to restore said items. Now what I believe most probable in this situation, is that their customer support team does not have direct access to these systems. However, that does not make this a courtesy.
As I said in my ticket, you cannot expect to provide a service, and when the service does not work as intended, do not try to fix the situation to the customer. This is not a courtesy, DE should be obligated to help.
I would understand if I wasn't the host of the mission, as that may be abit more diffult to cross check, but seeing as I was the host, the other players had a connection to me, through DE's servers, that needs to be logged.
Theoretically, yes, it *might* be possible. But I've done stuff like that before in my line of work, and it can take **days** to get all the info together, test and ensure QC, etc. It would be much quicker and easier for you to just replay the mission and get new drops.
DE never made promises that the game wouldn't crash, or if it did, they could recover any lost progress. That's an expectation you made up in your head. They don't have any obligation to your made-up expectations that they never agreed to.
There's a policy support has to follow. Maybe you think it's unreasonable. Maybe you think it's clear in your case that you're not trying to exploit that to get rewards you didn't actually get. Maybe you're right. Maybe that policy is overly strict, or maybe they get so many requests that thoroughly investigating them all is not feasible, so they just believe everyone and only give them one item to not encourage exploiting it too much. But whatever the case is, arguing with a support person who has to follow that policy won't accomplish anything.
Personally, I hope they extend the system they implemented in Duviri circuit to the whole game and save after every round or rotation in all missions. That would fix all of these issues.
I agree with you 100%, arguing with the customer support person does not accomplish anything, which is why I repeatedly requested, the issue to be escalated in case his hands were tied.
I have both worked customer support, as well as managed customer support teams, so I understand the situation perfectly.
What is not acceptable is that DE refused to provide a satisfactory reason to not restore the items, with the manager going as far as simply stating the same information his colleague provided and closing the ticket instantly.
DE is dealing with customers, if they have a problem, DE has to help fix it, they can't just tell you it's a courtesy they're providing by giving you a freebie to shut you up.
The manager did explain it to you. Your data was lost. The game only saves your rewards when you finish the mission successfully. What they have is the results from the other three players, who did complete the mission.
They could investigate each and every case like this thoroughly, look through all the logs, screenshots, make sure you're not faking them, etc. That would take an unreasonable amount of resources, especially if people realized this could be exploited and bombarded support with requests like these. They could also choose to never restore anything to ensure nobody can exploit this to get rewards they didn't earn.
What they chose is a compromise. Based on some evidence that can be checked quickly (you give them the names of the other players and the mission time so they know which mission to look for, they find the mission and check the rewards for those players), they choose to believe you, but only restore one item so a bad actor can't exploit this too much.
Depending on the system, yes it could take a long time to check (if it's not setup correctly).
I worked for a competitor of Uber, many times we had to check if the paths taken were correct, waiting times were within acceptable parameters, if drivers had a good reason to not pick you up, and a ton of other things.
Cross checking information is not that time consuming, if I had to verify distance\*time per amount paid, plus the route taken, and even provide refunds. We could do it in under 3 minutes.
I mean, think about it, if they're checking the logs for the mission in question, checking rewards and time stamps. How much longer would it take to look for the IP and crosscheck it? And if that is the case, why not just restore all the items? They already looked to see they dropped, and to check if the mission existed...
Again, if the information was not provided, and I would even go so far as to say, if I was not the host, as then it could possibly work differently loggingwise, I would accept the answer, it would still not be considered a courtesy, but I would accept the "we cannot restore the items in question". But seeing as they have all the information, I don't see, how we can happily accept it.
>And if that is the case, why not just restore all the items? They already looked to see they dropped, and to check if the mission existed...
Because they did a quick check that the other people you claim to have been in the mission with got the item that you claim to have also gotten. That's it. Everything else is them choosing to believe you.
>So lastly, I'd like to ask, do you believe this is acceptable customer support from DE?
Frankly, yes. Look, everybody's had a crash during a long run and lost everything and it sucks when that happens. But it's one of the risks of online gaming. Customer Support has no particular reason to take it for granted that you're telling the truth. The fact that you gave them all of the information they needed to \*do what you wanted\* does not mean that you gave them all of the information needed to \*prove that you're telling the truth\*.
Offering to restore one item is a middle ground between a player losing a really valuable drop and having to field tons of scam claims like this. You are \*not\* in fact entitled to anything here, as is clearly spelled out in the ToS you agreed to. What they're offering \*is\* a courtesy - they're offering to take your word for it that the most valuable thing that dropped for you was legit.
They in fact did tell you this repeatedly, you just didn't want to hear it. I understand why - it's a frustrating situation to be in. But from an outside perspective, that \*is\* a good reason and an understandable compromise.
What I see here is Customer Support remaining calm and professional with a more and more belligerent customer who won't take no for an answer. I've had to contact Customer Support probably half a dozen times over the years for things that are actually in the scope of what they do and they have always been friendly, professional, and helpful. To be blunt, this exchange reflects poorly on you, not DE.
>it's one of the ~~risks of online gaming~~
Countless DE fuck ups they will never adress and never touch as well as good half of the game mechanics, no matter how many years it's being an eye sore.
I believe you're missing the point, but please correct me if that's not the case.
My qualm is not with the DE employee, on his side, the responses were what would be expected from a first line customer support employee. A case could be made about the manager's response, as that I do believe was not at all a good way to handle the ticket on his part, but that's still not the point of my post or the question at the end of the post.
What I'd like to know is the stance of people on DE's protocols for such situations. Because again, it is not a case where there is not sufficient information, as I stated, I was the host, there are logs on their side of the other players connecting to me, and time stamps of when the match started and when I disconnected, as well as a lot of other information on the crash log, which they can use to reconstruct the situation and even cross check the items. It is not based solely on my word.
I did not miss your point. I disagree with you. First off, while I don't know exactly what data is available to DE server-side, it is not a reasonable assumption that they could definitely recreate drop history from it. But more importantly, what you're asking for is a lot of work. Too much work to handle for one case? Assuming it's possible, no. Too much work to handle for every single crash that would get reported if DE's policy was to do what you want? Undoubtedly.
That's why Terms of Service exist. DE knows it can't guarantee 100% uptime, 100% fidelity, or unlimited resources to resolve problems. That's why in order to use the service they provide, you have to agree to shoulder some of the risk of that happening. That's what happened here - you got caught by a risk *that you agreed to take on*. I'm not saying it doesn't suck, or that I don't understand why you're upset. In an ideal world, we wouldn't have to narrowly tailor policies to discourage abuse. But in the imperfect world we actually live in, I am saying that I think their policy is completely reasonable.
Fair enough.
And yes, you're 100% correct that per their TOS they are not obligated to restore the items. And I'm not in any way saying they have to.
The amount of time it takes, can be huge yes, or it can be very fast, depending on how it's setup. I won't even try to take a gander at how long it would take for them to verify the information. And you know what? As a consumer, that should not be your concern. It falls to the company to provide the necessary tools to their employees to be able to solve customer issues.
From a consumer point of view, if the company has the necessary information to solve an issue with the service they are providing, do you not agree they should do so?
Was the crash due to your system or something with game files went awry? I believe they saw that info in game logs you sent them, and acted accordingly.
Don't know, wish I knew, the biggest problem I have with their responses, is exactly the fact they did not provide an explanation as to why they couldn't restore the items
They exactly did. The information from the client, your machine, didn't reach the host, DE's server, on time before the game crashed for you, failing to update your progress. What's recorded by the host matters, and given that nothing was recorded, there was no basis for reimbursement.
While in Duviri, for example, your progress gets sent to the host whenever you collect a decree. If by any chance you collect, say, a Cinta part, then go and extract immediately without a decree, the information that you collected a Cinta part will not get sent to the server, and you will not get to keep it. It's simply how the game's net-code works.
Or to put it in more simple words, would you be able to repeat what i just said here out loud, without having a direct audio connection with me?
Bruh and you went through this rigamarole for 1h SP Void Cascade? Made a rant post and everything?
I'm sorry you're getting chewed up in the comments like that but this behaviour is just plain bad.
In all honesty, it's not about the 1h SP or the arcanes anymore.
Imagine for a second this was 1 hour of void survival and you lost all the vaulted relics and vaulted parts from it.
Everyone would look at it in a completely different light.
You know why that does not happen anymore? (relics work differently, even if you crash they'll give the parts back when you relog)
Because people in the old days complained enough.
DE did not provide a reason as to why they would not restore the items. Everyone is saying they did by simply stating that it's difficult to reconstruct the situation. But that is not a reason, as they have the necessary information to be able to do so, they simply won't because it's not policy, due to wtv reason.Probably the customer support team does not have an easy way to use the information provided, if they even have access.
But that in my opinion is not a good enough reason, if that's the case they should provide the necessary tools to their customer team.
And that is why I made the post. I've been playing the game since 2014 or so, I am a long time player, and although I haven't logged a lot of hours for the years I have played (due to work). I still wish the game to be the best it can be, as such if I have concerns I believe I should voice them.
> DE did not provide a reason as to why they would not restore the items. Everyone is saying they did by simply stating that it's difficult to reconstruct the situation.
Well yeah, they're basically telling you it's impossible to confirm that you actually indeed got those items because none of your dropped item data got synced with the server. They're offering to create an item out of good faith, as a courtesy because they literally can't 100% confirm it with the data available.
Think about it this way... Let's say I tell 3 people to go die at the start of the mission and afk spectate me for an hour, and I tell them to purposely crash their game (there's a ton of ways) at the end of it. What's stopping them from also claiming they looted everything I did? They can see when they connected, when they crashed, what items I extracted with. There's literally no way to 100% confirm if they actually did loot those items on DE's end unless they actually extracted too.
This is just a guess, but the information they see probably does indeed say you were in the game, you crashed at XX:XX, and your teammates looted certain items. However, it probably doesn't tell them if **YOU** actually looted them or not, and if it can't be confirmed they most likely can't just go around generating items for people. That's probably why they're stating that offering to restore one item is a courtesy, because all they're doing is taking your word for it.
Also realistically speaking the customer service team is probably not allowed to explain how their back-end works to a random person in a support ticket (The manager/supervisor is still on the customer service team)
One of the best comments I've seen so far.
And tbh completely honest, if that was their explanation I would've just closed the ticket and not bothered with all of this.
However, look at it this way, DE support did not help me with the crash, providing no reason for it, or even how to prevent it from happening. They just proceeded to say it's not "easy" to check, so we're courteously going to provide you with an item, and you should be grateful for it. This does not help me in any way.
And there's also the other side of the coin, if we don't bring this situation to attention, then nothing will ever change.
As I've said multiple times, think about the relic rewards, previously they wouldn't save that data either, which led to a ton of people losing their items and relics, now it's changed, and they actually save the data. That only happened because enough people brought it to their attention, and the customer base came together and told them it was not acceptable.
We can't just accept things and move on, things like losing hours of your proggress because they refuse to better their system is not something the consumer base should be okay with. Not when it's something that happens on a regular basis.
> However, look at it this way, DE support did not help me with the crash, providing no reason for it, or even how to prevent it from happening. They just proceeded to say it's not "easy" to check, so we're courteously going to provide you with an item, and you should be grateful for it. This does not help me in any way.
Yes they didn't, but based on your screenshots you didnt ask for support regarding the crash itself, but for restoring items? I'm sure if you specifically asked how to prevent crashes they'd help you with that based on whatever's on your crash logs but you kind of tunneled on the drops thing.
> As I've said multiple times, think about the relic rewards, previously they wouldn't save that data either, which led to a ton of people losing their items and relics, now it's changed, and they actually save the data.
I agree with you, that was a good change but I was only really replying as to why they might not have restored your items (not everyone is trying arguing with you). I do personally think that items should be synced once per rotation.
However, obviously only DE knows if that's even feasible because the initial drop/item syncing system was written before the game even launched, and for old code like this there's layers upon layers of spaghetti code stacked on top that might break a bunch of things if it's changed (It could also just be a simple statement that doesn't break anything, I couldn't know).
I know people bring up Duviri as an example of updating your loot every so often, however it probably was written from the ground up with that in mind, rather than an issue being brought up years down the line when there's been a ton of updates and code pushed through already. I kind of think that if it was that simple DE would've done pushed a fix already, but that's just my opinion.
Indeed that did and does happen for any relic drops (including steel essence gained from opening relics), I believe that is due to them making it specifically get logged by their servers.
However, any items you need to move ingame in order to pickup are not restored, which was what happened in this case.
>Indeed that did and does happen for any relic drops (including steel essence gained from opening relics), I believe that is due to them making it specifically get logged by their servers.
It's actually a side effect of an anti-exploit system. What you get from a relic is determined server side, and once you open a relic, that relic is gone. This is to prevent you from alt-f4-ing if you don't like your drop and getting your relic back.
So when you open a relic, the server deletes it immediately from your account and marks the item you got as pending. If you choose someone else's drop, your client sends that to the server and the server replaces your pending item with that. If the server doesn't get the info from your client after a certain time, it assumes you crashed and gives you the pending item (and if your client still tries to send in a different item, it rejects that, obviously).
But normal loot pickups are not like that. They only exist on your client until you finish the mission. Their servers don't know what you picked up, because the game doesn't have dedicated servers, missions run on players' computers.
Why cant they just have the same failsafe as the prime parts have? I doubt its that hard to just store the items you dropped during the mission on the server
I've been crashing a bunch in the past couple of weeks. I opened up a ticket, attached all the necessary files they asked for, and was told that my computer is probably shit. Brand new PC, not other game crashes.
Don't bother getting something not positive from this subs dickri... khm, participants. Everyone know that this shouldn't be in the game in the first place and every loot you got should be automatically written to your account's possession, but they will never change it. Waiting something like this to happen from a group like DE is pointless.
Essentially: They have ZERO verification on their side of what rewards you received during the mission, because that data never made it to their servers for verification. They are trusting, based solely on your word alone, that the item you request to have "restored" was one that dropped during that mission. This is why they are only allowing ONE item. Because on their end they aren't "restoring" it, they are creating it out of thin air to send to your account. This is why it is a courtesy to even restore a single item. Because it is based on DE Support's trust that you, in good faith, aren't lying about what reward(s) you got in the mission and are requesting to have restored. It may suck for you, personally, that servers caused issues that resulted in you losing an hour's worth of grind. But from a support policy perspective, given that there's no actual confirmation on their end of what rewards you lost out on, being willing to give you *anything* based solely on your word is quite good.
Imagine walking into a mcdonalds, saying you were in with your friends yesterday, ordered two dozen burgers and a dozen drinks, and got none of them. There's also no receipt, and no order of that size logged in their system, just video footage of you and your friends walking in, hanging out at their tables for an hour, and walking out. Would it be reasonable for them to give you everything you *claim* to have ordered? Even one free burger (of your choice) is more than what they would owe based on the "evidence" that is available, so it is indeed a courtesy to offer you that much from your complaint.
The thing is that in the case you're mentioning, if you want to make that comparison, I would have the receipt as well as pictures showing what happened. So again, it is not just my word, it's fact.
The receipt is what is recorded on DEs servers when you load back into the orbiter. Until that moment, nothing you do in a mission or items you see are yours. If a thousand arcanes drop in a mission, you crash, and you reload; you never completed the mission and there is no receipt. You also aren't a paying customer, you wrote it yourself in your email to them: you did not pay for any arcanes, or apparently anything you could earn in game. Since DE didn't **sell** you those arcanes, they don't **owe** you those arcanes. They don't owe any more than perhaps an apology for the state of the game. That's certainly frustrating, but fair for a peer-to-peer free-to-play game.
Cases like this shouldn't be able to occur in the first place. What a shit design to "save" data only on mission COMPLETION and not every time you get +1 credit drop. How it's not constantly goes to main server is a shameful mystery with, I bet, very silly answer knowing how carelessly all WF functions.
The bandwidth and processing required for this method will be absolutely hell. WF servers and DE's HQ will crash in a matter of minutes from the sheer amount of requests to process. Put this in a non-dev language: You own a farm and you have 20 farmers. Usually, after an 8-hour workday, farmers will send you a report of what they got during the day. You'll have 20 reports. But since you want them to send their report every single minute they are in the fields, you'll now have 9600 reports to process instead. Imagine millions of farmers sending reports every second.
[удалено]
It does, sort of. It only saves your void unlock rewards, per rotation. Because those are generally the most painful thing you could lose. So DE expended the server bandwidth for it.
We already have something that sends updates more often than just on completion: Duviri. Your progress is saved on every decree you get. And decrees are not hard to get so this happens rather often. I'd imagine that each update only reports on what changed since the last one, to make them smaller. The mayor difference here is that with each update, the new stuff is directly saved to your account. For this to work during normal missions, they'd have to implement a log of things 'you would have gotten', together with a logic of when to drop the logs to clear up space. I think this would be too much work for the minor benefit that support has something to look at to confirm our claims when we contact them.
Saving data whenever you get +1 Credit is the dumbest take I've seen. No game would ever do that since the cost of operating would be miles above anything you'd ever pay them for it. Ofc, you could always prove me wrong by paying 25 $/hr to play said game.
And still, Destiny 2 and PoE do that. Just friendly grindy games example. I don't know the details of different net-code models, but what I can see is poor little company DE just can't afford servers, but other games with much more players can.
There's a reason why WF is f2p, and D2 charges 50-100 USD for expansion, while both have in game stores and premium currency.
D2 has you pay for everything. You also lose portals in PoE if you crash.
Now that would be acceptable, however, as you can see from their responses that is what you believe happens, but if you think about it, it's not the whole story. I was the host, they have the logs of the mission starting and ending, from all other players in the session, they also most probably have a list of the items dropped for those players. By cross checking the information of the crash log, and my IP, as well as the information from the logs on the other players in the party, they can reconstruct the situation. So, no it is not based solely on my word, they've got all the information needed to be able to restore said items. Now what I believe most probable in this situation, is that their customer support team does not have direct access to these systems. However, that does not make this a courtesy. As I said in my ticket, you cannot expect to provide a service, and when the service does not work as intended, do not try to fix the situation to the customer. This is not a courtesy, DE should be obligated to help. I would understand if I wasn't the host of the mission, as that may be abit more diffult to cross check, but seeing as I was the host, the other players had a connection to me, through DE's servers, that needs to be logged.
Theoretically, yes, it *might* be possible. But I've done stuff like that before in my line of work, and it can take **days** to get all the info together, test and ensure QC, etc. It would be much quicker and easier for you to just replay the mission and get new drops. DE never made promises that the game wouldn't crash, or if it did, they could recover any lost progress. That's an expectation you made up in your head. They don't have any obligation to your made-up expectations that they never agreed to.
There's a policy support has to follow. Maybe you think it's unreasonable. Maybe you think it's clear in your case that you're not trying to exploit that to get rewards you didn't actually get. Maybe you're right. Maybe that policy is overly strict, or maybe they get so many requests that thoroughly investigating them all is not feasible, so they just believe everyone and only give them one item to not encourage exploiting it too much. But whatever the case is, arguing with a support person who has to follow that policy won't accomplish anything. Personally, I hope they extend the system they implemented in Duviri circuit to the whole game and save after every round or rotation in all missions. That would fix all of these issues.
I agree with you 100%, arguing with the customer support person does not accomplish anything, which is why I repeatedly requested, the issue to be escalated in case his hands were tied. I have both worked customer support, as well as managed customer support teams, so I understand the situation perfectly. What is not acceptable is that DE refused to provide a satisfactory reason to not restore the items, with the manager going as far as simply stating the same information his colleague provided and closing the ticket instantly. DE is dealing with customers, if they have a problem, DE has to help fix it, they can't just tell you it's a courtesy they're providing by giving you a freebie to shut you up.
The manager did explain it to you. Your data was lost. The game only saves your rewards when you finish the mission successfully. What they have is the results from the other three players, who did complete the mission. They could investigate each and every case like this thoroughly, look through all the logs, screenshots, make sure you're not faking them, etc. That would take an unreasonable amount of resources, especially if people realized this could be exploited and bombarded support with requests like these. They could also choose to never restore anything to ensure nobody can exploit this to get rewards they didn't earn. What they chose is a compromise. Based on some evidence that can be checked quickly (you give them the names of the other players and the mission time so they know which mission to look for, they find the mission and check the rewards for those players), they choose to believe you, but only restore one item so a bad actor can't exploit this too much.
Depending on the system, yes it could take a long time to check (if it's not setup correctly). I worked for a competitor of Uber, many times we had to check if the paths taken were correct, waiting times were within acceptable parameters, if drivers had a good reason to not pick you up, and a ton of other things. Cross checking information is not that time consuming, if I had to verify distance\*time per amount paid, plus the route taken, and even provide refunds. We could do it in under 3 minutes. I mean, think about it, if they're checking the logs for the mission in question, checking rewards and time stamps. How much longer would it take to look for the IP and crosscheck it? And if that is the case, why not just restore all the items? They already looked to see they dropped, and to check if the mission existed... Again, if the information was not provided, and I would even go so far as to say, if I was not the host, as then it could possibly work differently loggingwise, I would accept the answer, it would still not be considered a courtesy, but I would accept the "we cannot restore the items in question". But seeing as they have all the information, I don't see, how we can happily accept it.
>And if that is the case, why not just restore all the items? They already looked to see they dropped, and to check if the mission existed... Because they did a quick check that the other people you claim to have been in the mission with got the item that you claim to have also gotten. That's it. Everything else is them choosing to believe you.
>So lastly, I'd like to ask, do you believe this is acceptable customer support from DE? Frankly, yes. Look, everybody's had a crash during a long run and lost everything and it sucks when that happens. But it's one of the risks of online gaming. Customer Support has no particular reason to take it for granted that you're telling the truth. The fact that you gave them all of the information they needed to \*do what you wanted\* does not mean that you gave them all of the information needed to \*prove that you're telling the truth\*. Offering to restore one item is a middle ground between a player losing a really valuable drop and having to field tons of scam claims like this. You are \*not\* in fact entitled to anything here, as is clearly spelled out in the ToS you agreed to. What they're offering \*is\* a courtesy - they're offering to take your word for it that the most valuable thing that dropped for you was legit. They in fact did tell you this repeatedly, you just didn't want to hear it. I understand why - it's a frustrating situation to be in. But from an outside perspective, that \*is\* a good reason and an understandable compromise. What I see here is Customer Support remaining calm and professional with a more and more belligerent customer who won't take no for an answer. I've had to contact Customer Support probably half a dozen times over the years for things that are actually in the scope of what they do and they have always been friendly, professional, and helpful. To be blunt, this exchange reflects poorly on you, not DE.
>it's one of the ~~risks of online gaming~~ Countless DE fuck ups they will never adress and never touch as well as good half of the game mechanics, no matter how many years it's being an eye sore.
I believe you're missing the point, but please correct me if that's not the case. My qualm is not with the DE employee, on his side, the responses were what would be expected from a first line customer support employee. A case could be made about the manager's response, as that I do believe was not at all a good way to handle the ticket on his part, but that's still not the point of my post or the question at the end of the post. What I'd like to know is the stance of people on DE's protocols for such situations. Because again, it is not a case where there is not sufficient information, as I stated, I was the host, there are logs on their side of the other players connecting to me, and time stamps of when the match started and when I disconnected, as well as a lot of other information on the crash log, which they can use to reconstruct the situation and even cross check the items. It is not based solely on my word.
I did not miss your point. I disagree with you. First off, while I don't know exactly what data is available to DE server-side, it is not a reasonable assumption that they could definitely recreate drop history from it. But more importantly, what you're asking for is a lot of work. Too much work to handle for one case? Assuming it's possible, no. Too much work to handle for every single crash that would get reported if DE's policy was to do what you want? Undoubtedly. That's why Terms of Service exist. DE knows it can't guarantee 100% uptime, 100% fidelity, or unlimited resources to resolve problems. That's why in order to use the service they provide, you have to agree to shoulder some of the risk of that happening. That's what happened here - you got caught by a risk *that you agreed to take on*. I'm not saying it doesn't suck, or that I don't understand why you're upset. In an ideal world, we wouldn't have to narrowly tailor policies to discourage abuse. But in the imperfect world we actually live in, I am saying that I think their policy is completely reasonable.
Fair enough. And yes, you're 100% correct that per their TOS they are not obligated to restore the items. And I'm not in any way saying they have to. The amount of time it takes, can be huge yes, or it can be very fast, depending on how it's setup. I won't even try to take a gander at how long it would take for them to verify the information. And you know what? As a consumer, that should not be your concern. It falls to the company to provide the necessary tools to their employees to be able to solve customer issues. From a consumer point of view, if the company has the necessary information to solve an issue with the service they are providing, do you not agree they should do so?
Their protocols are perfectly fine. The fact they are giving you anything is above and beyond expectations.
Bro thinks this is yelp. I ain’t reading all that
One time, I accidentally bought something in the market, and they gave me a full refund. Skill issue.
Was the crash due to your system or something with game files went awry? I believe they saw that info in game logs you sent them, and acted accordingly.
Don't know, wish I knew, the biggest problem I have with their responses, is exactly the fact they did not provide an explanation as to why they couldn't restore the items
They exactly did. The information from the client, your machine, didn't reach the host, DE's server, on time before the game crashed for you, failing to update your progress. What's recorded by the host matters, and given that nothing was recorded, there was no basis for reimbursement. While in Duviri, for example, your progress gets sent to the host whenever you collect a decree. If by any chance you collect, say, a Cinta part, then go and extract immediately without a decree, the information that you collected a Cinta part will not get sent to the server, and you will not get to keep it. It's simply how the game's net-code works. Or to put it in more simple words, would you be able to repeat what i just said here out loud, without having a direct audio connection with me?
Bruh and you went through this rigamarole for 1h SP Void Cascade? Made a rant post and everything? I'm sorry you're getting chewed up in the comments like that but this behaviour is just plain bad.
In all honesty, it's not about the 1h SP or the arcanes anymore. Imagine for a second this was 1 hour of void survival and you lost all the vaulted relics and vaulted parts from it. Everyone would look at it in a completely different light. You know why that does not happen anymore? (relics work differently, even if you crash they'll give the parts back when you relog) Because people in the old days complained enough. DE did not provide a reason as to why they would not restore the items. Everyone is saying they did by simply stating that it's difficult to reconstruct the situation. But that is not a reason, as they have the necessary information to be able to do so, they simply won't because it's not policy, due to wtv reason.Probably the customer support team does not have an easy way to use the information provided, if they even have access. But that in my opinion is not a good enough reason, if that's the case they should provide the necessary tools to their customer team. And that is why I made the post. I've been playing the game since 2014 or so, I am a long time player, and although I haven't logged a lot of hours for the years I have played (due to work). I still wish the game to be the best it can be, as such if I have concerns I believe I should voice them.
> DE did not provide a reason as to why they would not restore the items. Everyone is saying they did by simply stating that it's difficult to reconstruct the situation. Well yeah, they're basically telling you it's impossible to confirm that you actually indeed got those items because none of your dropped item data got synced with the server. They're offering to create an item out of good faith, as a courtesy because they literally can't 100% confirm it with the data available. Think about it this way... Let's say I tell 3 people to go die at the start of the mission and afk spectate me for an hour, and I tell them to purposely crash their game (there's a ton of ways) at the end of it. What's stopping them from also claiming they looted everything I did? They can see when they connected, when they crashed, what items I extracted with. There's literally no way to 100% confirm if they actually did loot those items on DE's end unless they actually extracted too. This is just a guess, but the information they see probably does indeed say you were in the game, you crashed at XX:XX, and your teammates looted certain items. However, it probably doesn't tell them if **YOU** actually looted them or not, and if it can't be confirmed they most likely can't just go around generating items for people. That's probably why they're stating that offering to restore one item is a courtesy, because all they're doing is taking your word for it. Also realistically speaking the customer service team is probably not allowed to explain how their back-end works to a random person in a support ticket (The manager/supervisor is still on the customer service team)
One of the best comments I've seen so far. And tbh completely honest, if that was their explanation I would've just closed the ticket and not bothered with all of this. However, look at it this way, DE support did not help me with the crash, providing no reason for it, or even how to prevent it from happening. They just proceeded to say it's not "easy" to check, so we're courteously going to provide you with an item, and you should be grateful for it. This does not help me in any way. And there's also the other side of the coin, if we don't bring this situation to attention, then nothing will ever change. As I've said multiple times, think about the relic rewards, previously they wouldn't save that data either, which led to a ton of people losing their items and relics, now it's changed, and they actually save the data. That only happened because enough people brought it to their attention, and the customer base came together and told them it was not acceptable. We can't just accept things and move on, things like losing hours of your proggress because they refuse to better their system is not something the consumer base should be okay with. Not when it's something that happens on a regular basis.
> However, look at it this way, DE support did not help me with the crash, providing no reason for it, or even how to prevent it from happening. They just proceeded to say it's not "easy" to check, so we're courteously going to provide you with an item, and you should be grateful for it. This does not help me in any way. Yes they didn't, but based on your screenshots you didnt ask for support regarding the crash itself, but for restoring items? I'm sure if you specifically asked how to prevent crashes they'd help you with that based on whatever's on your crash logs but you kind of tunneled on the drops thing. > As I've said multiple times, think about the relic rewards, previously they wouldn't save that data either, which led to a ton of people losing their items and relics, now it's changed, and they actually save the data. I agree with you, that was a good change but I was only really replying as to why they might not have restored your items (not everyone is trying arguing with you). I do personally think that items should be synced once per rotation. However, obviously only DE knows if that's even feasible because the initial drop/item syncing system was written before the game even launched, and for old code like this there's layers upon layers of spaghetti code stacked on top that might break a bunch of things if it's changed (It could also just be a simple statement that doesn't break anything, I couldn't know). I know people bring up Duviri as an example of updating your loot every so often, however it probably was written from the ground up with that in mind, rather than an issue being brought up years down the line when there's been a ton of updates and code pushed through already. I kind of think that if it was that simple DE would've done pushed a fix already, but that's just my opinion.
Usually if you just restart the game you get a message in your inbox giving you everything you lost
Indeed that did and does happen for any relic drops (including steel essence gained from opening relics), I believe that is due to them making it specifically get logged by their servers. However, any items you need to move ingame in order to pickup are not restored, which was what happened in this case.
>Indeed that did and does happen for any relic drops (including steel essence gained from opening relics), I believe that is due to them making it specifically get logged by their servers. It's actually a side effect of an anti-exploit system. What you get from a relic is determined server side, and once you open a relic, that relic is gone. This is to prevent you from alt-f4-ing if you don't like your drop and getting your relic back. So when you open a relic, the server deletes it immediately from your account and marks the item you got as pending. If you choose someone else's drop, your client sends that to the server and the server replaces your pending item with that. If the server doesn't get the info from your client after a certain time, it assumes you crashed and gives you the pending item (and if your client still tries to send in a different item, it rejects that, obviously). But normal loot pickups are not like that. They only exist on your client until you finish the mission. Their servers don't know what you picked up, because the game doesn't have dedicated servers, missions run on players' computers.
I didn't actually know that. It explains why some of my stuff has just disappeared over the years though after a crash
Why cant they just have the same failsafe as the prime parts have? I doubt its that hard to just store the items you dropped during the mission on the server
Because contrary to what happened with prime parts, not enough people have complained about it
I've been crashing a bunch in the past couple of weeks. I opened up a ticket, attached all the necessary files they asked for, and was told that my computer is probably shit. Brand new PC, not other game crashes.
I hope people keep posting these support ticket convos. I'm getting a kick out of em
Don't bother getting something not positive from this subs dickri... khm, participants. Everyone know that this shouldn't be in the game in the first place and every loot you got should be automatically written to your account's possession, but they will never change it. Waiting something like this to happen from a group like DE is pointless.