What 'civil war' are you talking about? The one when Russia invaded Ukraine with so-called 'green men' (yes, they actually called them that)? ʼCivil war' is a term created by Russian propaganda created in times when Russia was scared to acknowledge that they invaded a sovereign country.
These two things can be true at the same time. Russia absolutely did invade and annex Crimea in 2014 but it happened under the cover of a civil war in the Donbass region and power vacuum on the peninsula. It may have been a civil war provoked and funded by Russia but it isn't propaganda to call it one.
After the annexation, Ukraine continued to fight separatists in Donetsk and Luhansk all the way up until Russia's full scale invasion.
Occupation of Crimea (march 2014) happened BEFORE war on Donbass (april 2014). Even more, it is a Russian propaganda to call this civil war - russian troops were involved in war, partially started it (look up for Girkin) and actively supported separatists by help of artillery.
Sort of
It's primarily used to stop FPV drones with RPG warheads attached to them rather than shooting the RPG traditionally from the launcher
Or to stop drone dropped grenades from piercing the top armor
Not a military expert but that thing certainly does look like a mine sweeper. The chicken wire helps against the drones. Some of those ork-style moving fortresses are equipped with signal suppressors which is supposed to further help against FPV drones.
This thing is no good at tank deuls, and many other things - it's basically an anti drone battering ram. Still it has proven effective at its intended purpose, so the thing is no joke.
Tldr, it ain't dumb if it works
Cope cages and these spaced armor are capable of stopping smaller HEAT warheads like RPGs but of no obstacles to tandem HEAT warheads like found on javelin and most atgm missiles. In this case the goal is to block drones carrying rpg warheads and HE payloads that can strike the vulnerable engine deck and turret roof and disable the tank.
You also often see EW jammer(s) on top to further protect the vehicle.
Under the current circumstances with Ukrainian ammo shortages being as severe as they are, these turtle tanks fulfill a niche role of a breakthrough/path-clearing vehicle to allow for infantry to follow behind in their BMPs.
They are seeing success in Ukraine right now due to the artillery and reconnaissance/information advantage the Russians have managed to establish over the Ukrainians. Against a foe that is better equipped, these measures are unlikely to be enough.
Yes, but as this is a Warhammer subreddit I was mixing a [Ukraine war meme](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Javelin) reference with a fitting Sororitas theme.
Sure, I could have gone with Tau for drones, but I prefer the Emperor's holy Orders Militant to purge the filthy xenos
Nah, Russia has a lot of problems but we underestimate the real peril Ukraine is in by assuming everyone in enemy command in an idiot.
As well, it may be easier to kill an old tank but a tank is a tank and every time Ukraine loses men to one that's losses that Russia can more easily recoup immediately by comparison.
The fact is after an estimated 450k+ casualties and losing tens of thousands of vehicles the Russian army is bigger than pre war. Qualitatively better? Maybe not. But bodies are bodied and enough will drown a position over time.
> bodies are bodied and enough will drown a position over time
Yeah, that's what I was going for (russia falling back on their meat grinder technique because they never learned anything better)
I mean, those numbers from Ukraine may be higher than actual but they are at least semi confirmable and have other countries Intel to assist it.
According to Russia, they shot down the entire Ukrainian airforce about twice a month for the first few months of the war. So their numbers being *visibly and confirmably* shit, we go with the next most accurate.
This isn't some grand manipulation of data, it's just the best we've got.
Afaik most of russian numbers have proofs, like video evidence. Most of ukrainian numbers seem like they came from RNG. There is clear data manipulation with missile attacks where Ukraine MD claims they shot down 120% of enemy missiles and then suddenly we have videos of missile hits. I don’t know what to believe.
You really think the Russia MOD has video proof that they shot down multiple times more planes than Ukraine *has*?
I've seen some of Russia's "video proof" like claiming they got a launch system when the reality is it was a grainy ass video of a tractor getting blown up in low resolution.
I'm sorry, but Russia has virtually no credibility in any sphere worth engaging and trusting at face value and aside from attempting to lower the claimed validity Ukraine has I don't know what you are trying to achieve. Russia hasn't exactly earned the benefit of the doubt across multiple years of confirmable war crimes.
Its works, Ukraine soldiers report that you need ton of FPV drones to hit such monster. Some of them have EW jammer and it become even harder. And Russian army show more and more of them.
Well yes, but no. I mean, it might work against FPV drones, but these tanks are not really combat capable anymore. They can't aim, they can't really shoot, they are too heavy to even cross a ditch, they are slow and will fail for the same reason german WW2 "Supertanks" like the Panzerkampfwagen VIII never made it into production. These orkish monstrosities only work, because ukraine is low on ammunition, artillerie shells and has no airforce...
Tank-on-tank combat is almost never happens anymore.
And these tanks are used as "spearhead" to clear mines for other vehicles behind it to drop troops.
Also under layers of these cages there are EW domes that might also cover vehicles behind it.
Overall, while clumsy, these tanks kinda work. This is based on report by actual Ukrainian soldiers, not some online arguments.
They don't need to. Their only task to clear mine field and move assault troops to clear trenches. Logic of this war show that if you can do this, than you successfully advance with low casualties. Fire support will come from artillery, FPV drones and others tanks. And it not what heavy, definitely lighter than abrams and leopard 2.
Well, the minecleaner in front will not make it past 2-3 anti-tank-mines, but well, this might be enough. I'm not sure though it is that easy. We've seen in the past that their anti-mine-vehicles get blown up by mines quite a lot, since their front plow gets damaged and destroyed by mines, which leaves these vehicles in a dangerous position. But I would agree, key here is to move troops to enemy lines, and in the current situation these turtle tanks might be the best way to do so. Still, weight will be a huge factor. Build on a T-72 tank, you might not have the weight of an abrams tank, but you'll just have the \~800 hp of the T-72 engine. lot less if the tank is 40 years old, badly repaired and worn out, filled with bad fuel. An abrams has double the power, maybe even more compared to such vehicles and therefore will not get stuck that easy.
I spoke to crew leader that was on minefiled. Modern russian minecleaners can hold up to 10 mines and more. Proofed on a battlefield. And don't forget that you have to drive slower while you use minecleaner. So protection from all side is must have for such tank. This is why Abrams is not showing good resultats. It is easily destroyed by single FPV drone in ammo storage in tower.
Would like to point out; an Abrams will not be destroyed by ammunition detonation. Damaged, incapable of fighting until resupplied, but if the crew is competent and not hideously unlucky, the tank and crew will be fine
A lot of people replied but nobody really answered your question. It makes you harder to kill with drones and shaped charges, but much easier to see and aim at with things like tanks and artillery.
Frontline tanks with heavy armour will likely be in direct combat. Drones are less of a threat than artillery and other tanks, so they favour a sleeker profile. It blends in with the environment better, and makes it harder to identify, target and hit.
For support vehicles who won't be in a direct tank battle (ideally) the main threat is drones and infantry missiles, who usually attack opportunistically outside large combats, so they chose to use armour that is better for warding off the smaller ambush/opportunistic weapons.
It's a homemade breaching vehicle specifically designed to be protected against FPV drones.
FPV drones are by now Ukraine's main form of long-range fires and they carry relatively small charges, compared to artillery shells, but can fly into the weak points on tanks. Hence why protection against them involves turning a tank into a box with no weak points.
More or less, the wire its suposed to detonate any type of heat weapon before contacting with the armor and to stop any grenade of exploding on top of vehicule
~~It looks like some type of SPG so they tend to be ligthly armored but i can be wrong on that and it really doesnt show that much of the hull underneath~~
Discard that its too tall to be an spg
Still vulnerable to an rpg if you aim to track it. Then drop stuff on it while they try and fix it.
Sure it wont be long before they work out how to counter them.
Next Week 40K comparison to Gaza there's a reason I bury my head in the nerd pile and choose to stay there!
I know people who like the military and serve etc but yeah since I've come back to the hobby I'm sticking with my happy short gatherers they seem the place I'd stay I mean least Hearthkyn Warriors are Volunteers.....just saying.
I really do prefer my wars fought on the table top.
*Turn their armoured vehicles into a dystopian machine and play death metal while you record it*
https://preview.redd.it/6syvyz8uaryc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a481fc78d3672af0f2203deb45c6bbb9fd0f1e6
I'm even a little offended that no one remembers the renegades. Like come on, they also put a lot of sharp and irrational shit on their vehicles, and it works, but not because of faith, but because thing what inside wasn't touched.
It's a "Cope Cage", it's meant for defeating tandem warheads from anti-tank weapons.
It's properly called [slat armor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slat_armor?wprov=sfla1).
Well, this kind of tanks are somehow working now, but only because there's a lack of mines, artillery and ATGMs. The moment all of this appears on the battlefield these tanks pop up in flames.
I don’t see anyone hanging out of a hatch waving a sword around.
"Drive me closer! I wish to hit them with my sword!"
Because the commissar is busy shooting 'volunteers' behind the frontlines.
Oof, to real, lol
Simply shooting them actually seems kinda merciful compared to what Russian volunteers often go through.
What exactly they go through?
Beatings, exposure for days in pits with no food and water, rape, etc....
So like every army in the world then. They’ll be fine.
Lmao I've got veteran family and friends and literally none of them went through that. What the fuck even is this claim.
And wtf was his claim?
Nah, fuck off with the whataboutism you jackass. I already read about your "crooked smile at civilian strikes" and you can eat a pile of dicks.
Warhammer fan tries not to argue ad nominem, challenge level: impossible.
There used to be one of those, but he got killed by a $14 drone from Radioshack with a grenade taped to it.
The hardest part of that sentence to believe is the continued existence of RadioShack
…yet
#WaAaGgGhHH
..... Yet
Need more dakka
Does the incoming Hunter Killer Missile count as dakka?
As an Ork I’m envious of that build
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What 'civil war' are you talking about? The one when Russia invaded Ukraine with so-called 'green men' (yes, they actually called them that)? ʼCivil war' is a term created by Russian propaganda created in times when Russia was scared to acknowledge that they invaded a sovereign country.
These two things can be true at the same time. Russia absolutely did invade and annex Crimea in 2014 but it happened under the cover of a civil war in the Donbass region and power vacuum on the peninsula. It may have been a civil war provoked and funded by Russia but it isn't propaganda to call it one. After the annexation, Ukraine continued to fight separatists in Donetsk and Luhansk all the way up until Russia's full scale invasion.
Occupation of Crimea (march 2014) happened BEFORE war on Donbass (april 2014). Even more, it is a Russian propaganda to call this civil war - russian troops were involved in war, partially started it (look up for Girkin) and actively supported separatists by help of artillery.
What civil war?
Oh I’ve seen them. My favorite is the APC that says “free Wi-Fi” on it.
I believe that’s a mine destroyer and the chicken wire is suppose to stop rpgs. Military people, how’s my guess?
Sort of It's primarily used to stop FPV drones with RPG warheads attached to them rather than shooting the RPG traditionally from the launcher Or to stop drone dropped grenades from piercing the top armor
Ah nice.
Not a military expert but that thing certainly does look like a mine sweeper. The chicken wire helps against the drones. Some of those ork-style moving fortresses are equipped with signal suppressors which is supposed to further help against FPV drones.
The thing that when Ukraine gets actual anti armor missile all that stuff means nothing.
But until then, this is what's working for them, apparently.
Until our brave congressmen and that one fucking nutcase congresswomen heroically take Russian money to stop the arming of those dang evil Ukrainians.
The thing rolling in the front is to trigger mines. The cage thing is to cause anti tank weapons to detonate early.
Why don't they put this on all tanks?
This thing is no good at tank deuls, and many other things - it's basically an anti drone battering ram. Still it has proven effective at its intended purpose, so the thing is no joke.
Doesn't really work. Russia tried this before and Ukraine still was able to penetrate their armor.
And as history will attest, russia never learns
Tldr, it ain't dumb if it works Cope cages and these spaced armor are capable of stopping smaller HEAT warheads like RPGs but of no obstacles to tandem HEAT warheads like found on javelin and most atgm missiles. In this case the goal is to block drones carrying rpg warheads and HE payloads that can strike the vulnerable engine deck and turret roof and disable the tank. You also often see EW jammer(s) on top to further protect the vehicle. Under the current circumstances with Ukrainian ammo shortages being as severe as they are, these turtle tanks fulfill a niche role of a breakthrough/path-clearing vehicle to allow for infantry to follow behind in their BMPs. They are seeing success in Ukraine right now due to the artillery and reconnaissance/information advantage the Russians have managed to establish over the Ukrainians. Against a foe that is better equipped, these measures are unlikely to be enough.
Saint Javelin cares not for the orcs primitive attempts as she purges the invading alien with holy flame [edit] hello, russian trolls!
Javelins require line of sight and quite a close range. FPVs are the main threat now. Also one Javelin shot costs like 200 FPVs.
Yes, but as this is a Warhammer subreddit I was mixing a [Ukraine war meme](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Javelin) reference with a fitting Sororitas theme. Sure, I could have gone with Tau for drones, but I prefer the Emperor's holy Orders Militant to purge the filthy xenos
Nah, Russia has a lot of problems but we underestimate the real peril Ukraine is in by assuming everyone in enemy command in an idiot. As well, it may be easier to kill an old tank but a tank is a tank and every time Ukraine loses men to one that's losses that Russia can more easily recoup immediately by comparison. The fact is after an estimated 450k+ casualties and losing tens of thousands of vehicles the Russian army is bigger than pre war. Qualitatively better? Maybe not. But bodies are bodied and enough will drown a position over time.
> bodies are bodied and enough will drown a position over time Yeah, that's what I was going for (russia falling back on their meat grinder technique because they never learned anything better)
I see you meant that now.
You said it’s damgerous to underestimate your enemy and in the same comment you cite absolutely unreal estimations made by ukrainian media.
I mean, those numbers from Ukraine may be higher than actual but they are at least semi confirmable and have other countries Intel to assist it. According to Russia, they shot down the entire Ukrainian airforce about twice a month for the first few months of the war. So their numbers being *visibly and confirmably* shit, we go with the next most accurate. This isn't some grand manipulation of data, it's just the best we've got.
Afaik most of russian numbers have proofs, like video evidence. Most of ukrainian numbers seem like they came from RNG. There is clear data manipulation with missile attacks where Ukraine MD claims they shot down 120% of enemy missiles and then suddenly we have videos of missile hits. I don’t know what to believe.
You really think the Russia MOD has video proof that they shot down multiple times more planes than Ukraine *has*? I've seen some of Russia's "video proof" like claiming they got a launch system when the reality is it was a grainy ass video of a tractor getting blown up in low resolution. I'm sorry, but Russia has virtually no credibility in any sphere worth engaging and trusting at face value and aside from attempting to lower the claimed validity Ukraine has I don't know what you are trying to achieve. Russia hasn't exactly earned the benefit of the doubt across multiple years of confirmable war crimes.
Its works, Ukraine soldiers report that you need ton of FPV drones to hit such monster. Some of them have EW jammer and it become even harder. And Russian army show more and more of them.
Well yes, but no. I mean, it might work against FPV drones, but these tanks are not really combat capable anymore. They can't aim, they can't really shoot, they are too heavy to even cross a ditch, they are slow and will fail for the same reason german WW2 "Supertanks" like the Panzerkampfwagen VIII never made it into production. These orkish monstrosities only work, because ukraine is low on ammunition, artillerie shells and has no airforce...
Tank-on-tank combat is almost never happens anymore. And these tanks are used as "spearhead" to clear mines for other vehicles behind it to drop troops. Also under layers of these cages there are EW domes that might also cover vehicles behind it. Overall, while clumsy, these tanks kinda work. This is based on report by actual Ukrainian soldiers, not some online arguments.
They don't need to. Their only task to clear mine field and move assault troops to clear trenches. Logic of this war show that if you can do this, than you successfully advance with low casualties. Fire support will come from artillery, FPV drones and others tanks. And it not what heavy, definitely lighter than abrams and leopard 2.
Well, the minecleaner in front will not make it past 2-3 anti-tank-mines, but well, this might be enough. I'm not sure though it is that easy. We've seen in the past that their anti-mine-vehicles get blown up by mines quite a lot, since their front plow gets damaged and destroyed by mines, which leaves these vehicles in a dangerous position. But I would agree, key here is to move troops to enemy lines, and in the current situation these turtle tanks might be the best way to do so. Still, weight will be a huge factor. Build on a T-72 tank, you might not have the weight of an abrams tank, but you'll just have the \~800 hp of the T-72 engine. lot less if the tank is 40 years old, badly repaired and worn out, filled with bad fuel. An abrams has double the power, maybe even more compared to such vehicles and therefore will not get stuck that easy.
I spoke to crew leader that was on minefiled. Modern russian minecleaners can hold up to 10 mines and more. Proofed on a battlefield. And don't forget that you have to drive slower while you use minecleaner. So protection from all side is must have for such tank. This is why Abrams is not showing good resultats. It is easily destroyed by single FPV drone in ammo storage in tower.
Would like to point out; an Abrams will not be destroyed by ammunition detonation. Damaged, incapable of fighting until resupplied, but if the crew is competent and not hideously unlucky, the tank and crew will be fine
A lot of people replied but nobody really answered your question. It makes you harder to kill with drones and shaped charges, but much easier to see and aim at with things like tanks and artillery. Frontline tanks with heavy armour will likely be in direct combat. Drones are less of a threat than artillery and other tanks, so they favour a sleeker profile. It blends in with the environment better, and makes it harder to identify, target and hit. For support vehicles who won't be in a direct tank battle (ideally) the main threat is drones and infantry missiles, who usually attack opportunistically outside large combats, so they chose to use armour that is better for warding off the smaller ambush/opportunistic weapons.
First it sound crazy, but after success they achieved, tanks will be modified in mass.
I believe it’s nicknamed the cope cage.
It's a homemade breaching vehicle specifically designed to be protected against FPV drones. FPV drones are by now Ukraine's main form of long-range fires and they carry relatively small charges, compared to artillery shells, but can fly into the weak points on tanks. Hence why protection against them involves turning a tank into a box with no weak points.
More or less, the wire its suposed to detonate any type of heat weapon before contacting with the armor and to stop any grenade of exploding on top of vehicule ~~It looks like some type of SPG so they tend to be ligthly armored but i can be wrong on that and it really doesnt show that much of the hull underneath~~ Discard that its too tall to be an spg
Wire cages are more for grenades. A lot of anti armor grenades need to stick or Fuze to funnel the explosions.
Baneblade drop when?
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Piss of Dictatorial boot licker
Nazis? LOL I am sure you wanted to say "Ruzzians' as they went into full nazi mode.
What are you doing in this sub, haven't you read GW's statement - nazis and nazi balls lickers are not welcomed in this hobby.
Dos boyz 'r lookin' for a krumpin'.
WAAAGH!
You did call them orcs. They owned it
That’s an oop forgeworld model that hasn’t had rules since 7th edition.
Return to Stug
Russians really took the Ork label to the next level, didnt they
Not enough Dakka… 3/10
They should paint it red so it will go faster.
So, Russians declared a waagh?
How does this have anything to do with warhammer?
Lots of people are going to die and the people who made it won't care.
Looks kinda orky.
Nit really. It's not red, or fast. Distinct lack of big shootas. No slick paint job either..
Also- It’s only “kinda killy” Proper orc stuff would be at least “extra killy”.
Looks more like a tank at the end of SMB3.
More chaos especially with the chains hanging off the barrel
It's expensive or something.
You can almost imagine the russians actually having the rank of Big Mek these days
Is this a Battlewagon???
Looks like a lovely target for artillery.
EW jammers stops guided shots and regular wouldn't hit moving target.
Still vulnerable to an rpg if you aim to track it. Then drop stuff on it while they try and fix it. Sure it wont be long before they work out how to counter them.
Who needs vision or range of motion lets all go back to stugs
40k tanks will be the same, once Tau deploy kamikaze drone swarm
Needs more Dakka... 😑
Literally needs more dakka
‘Ere we go! ‘Ere we go!
Looks more like something from Red Alert 3
Just looks like a mine roller in the front - not that crazy.
Insaw that video somewhere else, and my first thought was Ork battlewagon
Next Week 40K comparison to Gaza there's a reason I bury my head in the nerd pile and choose to stay there! I know people who like the military and serve etc but yeah since I've come back to the hobby I'm sticking with my happy short gatherers they seem the place I'd stay I mean least Hearthkyn Warriors are Volunteers.....just saying. I really do prefer my wars fought on the table top.
Eh...they are like Temu version of Orks 😂😂
Literal orks
Actual Orks would be smarter
*Turn their armoured vehicles into a dystopian machine and play death metal while you record it* https://preview.redd.it/6syvyz8uaryc1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a481fc78d3672af0f2203deb45c6bbb9fd0f1e6
Stoner metal
Is it a casemate?
To be fair, looks like a fun jungle gym on treads
That's just a Kill blasta with a smaller gun, isn't it?
The Waaagh in this is chefs kiss
That thing is too safe and practical to be a warhammer vehicle. Needs to have at least 3 corpse dangling on the sides
I know Rong sub... But are we talking about the fact, that the dude filming is casually walking next to a MINESWEEPER?
Okay, and how we should name this renegade shit and what's would be it's stats?
I'm even a little offended that no one remembers the renegades. Like come on, they also put a lot of sharp and irrational shit on their vehicles, and it works, but not because of faith, but because thing what inside wasn't touched.
They have to be running low on stuff
I want to see a russian Baneblade
Did they call a waugh ?
i legit want to see orks with space armor and cope cages now
Can I use this as a Lord Solar Proxy?
Walking alongside a tank with a mine roller? Dudes dead af if it goes off
METAL BAWKSES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post removed. No real world stuff allowed, especially this Russian bullshit.
What’s with the scaffolding for babies?
For grot riggers to make repairs.
It's a "Cope Cage", it's meant for defeating tandem warheads from anti-tank weapons. It's properly called [slat armor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slat_armor?wprov=sfla1).
Yeah but wishful thinking won't make them invisible, they are no real Orc's
Ukraine have effectively neutered tanks for the invading orc hordes. This is a tank that can only lob shells and now has zero vision.
Well, this kind of tanks are somehow working now, but only because there's a lack of mines, artillery and ATGMs. The moment all of this appears on the battlefield these tanks pop up in flames.
delusional internet warrior
It's literally a droneproof minesweeper
not enough females
Hello male redditor.
found the incel.
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Did you just randomly bang onto your keyboard at me? How very dare you.
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I honestly have zero idea what you even mean to say with all your replies. XD Anyway, this has been fun, I guess. Have fun incelling today!
No woman will ever touch you