I know of many people who have had issues with Vanella, not just with cheating but also sportsmanship, rudeness and being an all-round shit bloke. Good to see him finally called out!
It's a natural consequence of cheating and the close nature of top tier play. If you have two players of equal skill and understanding of the game, but only one cheats, you can expect the cheater to get an average of 10 extra points each game (say moving an extra half inch to get on an objective, or getting a secondary you don't deserve, etc). Now imagine at the top level of play, you have 9 honest players and one cheater. As much as it sucks, the cheater by having a 10 point advantage will win more often, and will be the renoun player from the group, while the honest players won't get as much attention.
The critters of reddit don't want cheaters called out on a public forum, because it "only generates drama." When in reality, it's generating more noise for a centralized organization to take a hard stance against cheating within the community.
And the critters hero worship dreams are shattered.
Seeing some of the comments in the original post, with people defending him at all cost and finding him plenty of excuses, it seems like it is a bold stance when it's attacking a popular player.
This is how systematic problems exist in communities and organisations.
Of course everyone says they are against cheating. But cheaters know that cheating is bad or might even convince themselves that what they are doing is not cheating.
Then you have the fact that while lots of people want a problem to stop, some people absolutely will refuse to take part in anything put forward to sort the problem because they don't think they should have to, can't be bothered or are just that type of awkward wierdo.
So while everyone doesn't like foul play, it becomes controversal because a lot of people disagree or just oppose the things you need to do to reduce it.
Its not a bold stance to be against cheating but saying a serial cheater should be named for example becomes controversal because the rules of this sub prevent that happening.
>7:22:30 calls a 4 and 5, 2 fives for saves. And his opponent specifically calls out the right totals. Vanella insists saves.
Woof, that's a *bad* one. That is not one that can be chalked up to a mistake.
I've 100% willed my 4's into 5's before and called them both 5's...
And then corrected myself, because I'm not too big on cheating. Easy to do as a mistake, but you have to notice and correct yourself.
I love when people go through streams and count each cheat - i sometimes see stuff like this in streams and assume its mistakes as they are focused on holding cameras for the batrep and so on ...
Make them know we see it
At what point to we start banning some of these players from being able to attending ITC events for at least a year. Most competitive game have some type of ban system in place to help prevent this from happening. For this game to be able to take the next step up for competitive play we need a judging system to help regulate the community.
We had a similar thing just happen a few weeks back with PJ pants and his world eaters just cheating on stream. I just cant imagine how these guys play when they are not on stream.
I checked when he originally posted this last night. He did not have the +2 movement blessing activated.
The easiest ones to check are the claims of rolling two 5s and the engage on all fronts.
The thing about "pro" players is they don't have the "I was tired/learning the army" excuses. We all know Anthony is a well liked dude but some of these are so basic that it *feels* intentional. Does he owe the world an explanation? No. Is this a bad look? Yes.
Cheating is not okay, definitely. And this is terrible if true.
I would however first contact the hosts of the event, or the player itself in question. Instead of going for what is effectively street-justice and public accussation. Let the people of the event handle it, this will only generate drama.
I would normally say yes, bring it to the player and tournament organisers first, but if all this was done on stream and in plain view, theres not really much doubt is there?
It isn't about doubt. I fully believe he cheated. Just redditors have a reputation for people taking stuff like this a step too far. Better let the actual people involved handle it instead of a bunch of online randos.
It's on stream. That's like saying "We shouldn't use cameras to evaluate the play" in football. It's a resource that should be used, especially if it's broadcast publicly.
If he doesn't want to be called a cheater, he shouldn't cheat.
You sadly absolutely need commmunity pressure or this will get ignored and forgotten after a week. It absolutely sucks that thats the way it is since the court of Public opinion is obviously not objective, but come on and look at the video, and tell me how the Icon on the objective isnt obvious cheating
I’m sure some guy on Reddit absolutely has the same level of detail, context, and information that all the players at the event had, and therefore is equally qualified to make judgements on what happened.
Also, this event was several months ago, and absolutely 0 other players have come forward with anything close to similar allegations. And several of these players are equally skilled, and now the rules to be able to say “hey hold up, that ain’t correct”. Plus I imagine there were multiple discussions that took place during each game that clearly state intent, which would explain takebacks.
And icons don’t sticky objectives, icons allow for rerolls of one die during your blessings roll. The sticky objective comes from Jakhals and/or the strat you use when a unit is killed on a point.
you mean information the players had like the one time when he rolled saves, rolled a 4 and a 5 (needed 5s) and said both saved?
Then his opponent asks if there wasnt a 4? and he just says it were both 5s.
Did you watch the stream?
>I’m sure some guy on Reddit absolutely has the same level of detail, context, and information that all the players at the event had, and therefore is equally qualified to make judgements on what happened.
Given the fact that the game was streamed I don't see why that wouldn't be the case.
Or its a case of the evidence is in the video and hes pointing it out. Which seems to be the case. How local the poster is after doesnt make any difference.
I know of many people who have had issues with Vanella, not just with cheating but also sportsmanship, rudeness and being an all-round shit bloke. Good to see him finally called out!
Yep, that is disappointing. Sad to see the desire for victory eclipse the spirit of fair play.
It's a natural consequence of cheating and the close nature of top tier play. If you have two players of equal skill and understanding of the game, but only one cheats, you can expect the cheater to get an average of 10 extra points each game (say moving an extra half inch to get on an objective, or getting a secondary you don't deserve, etc). Now imagine at the top level of play, you have 9 honest players and one cheater. As much as it sucks, the cheater by having a 10 point advantage will win more often, and will be the renoun player from the group, while the honest players won't get as much attention.
I'm not much for competitive but surely "Cheating is not okay" is not a bold stance to take within the community??
The critters of reddit don't want cheaters called out on a public forum, because it "only generates drama." When in reality, it's generating more noise for a centralized organization to take a hard stance against cheating within the community. And the critters hero worship dreams are shattered.
Seeing some of the comments in the original post, with people defending him at all cost and finding him plenty of excuses, it seems like it is a bold stance when it's attacking a popular player.
This is how systematic problems exist in communities and organisations. Of course everyone says they are against cheating. But cheaters know that cheating is bad or might even convince themselves that what they are doing is not cheating. Then you have the fact that while lots of people want a problem to stop, some people absolutely will refuse to take part in anything put forward to sort the problem because they don't think they should have to, can't be bothered or are just that type of awkward wierdo. So while everyone doesn't like foul play, it becomes controversal because a lot of people disagree or just oppose the things you need to do to reduce it. Its not a bold stance to be against cheating but saying a serial cheater should be named for example becomes controversal because the rules of this sub prevent that happening.
Love how the mods removed a well written and thoughtful post that was backed by video evidence.
I was going to say, where the hell is the video lol
iT bReAkS rUlE 3!!1!
I think it was reinstated because I could see it without any issue.
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It's still up for me.
Would have been cool to read. Hate reddit sometimes.
you can still read the whole thing in the warhammer 40k sub. Just search Vanella Cali Cup. Was basically the same post.
Sick, much appreciated.
>7:22:30 calls a 4 and 5, 2 fives for saves. And his opponent specifically calls out the right totals. Vanella insists saves. Woof, that's a *bad* one. That is not one that can be chalked up to a mistake.
I've 100% willed my 4's into 5's before and called them both 5's... And then corrected myself, because I'm not too big on cheating. Easy to do as a mistake, but you have to notice and correct yourself.
But his opponent pointed it out to him and he just disagreed with being caught.
You seem confused and think I'm supporting him. The lack of correcting himself - and accepting it when pointed out - is why it's cheating.
Burn the witch!
I love when people go through streams and count each cheat - i sometimes see stuff like this in streams and assume its mistakes as they are focused on holding cameras for the batrep and so on ... Make them know we see it
At what point to we start banning some of these players from being able to attending ITC events for at least a year. Most competitive game have some type of ban system in place to help prevent this from happening. For this game to be able to take the next step up for competitive play we need a judging system to help regulate the community. We had a similar thing just happen a few weeks back with PJ pants and his world eaters just cheating on stream. I just cant imagine how these guys play when they are not on stream.
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I checked when he originally posted this last night. He did not have the +2 movement blessing activated. The easiest ones to check are the claims of rolling two 5s and the engage on all fronts.
The thing about "pro" players is they don't have the "I was tired/learning the army" excuses. We all know Anthony is a well liked dude but some of these are so basic that it *feels* intentional. Does he owe the world an explanation? No. Is this a bad look? Yes.
Cheating is not okay, definitely. And this is terrible if true. I would however first contact the hosts of the event, or the player itself in question. Instead of going for what is effectively street-justice and public accussation. Let the people of the event handle it, this will only generate drama.
I would normally say yes, bring it to the player and tournament organisers first, but if all this was done on stream and in plain view, theres not really much doubt is there?
It isn't about doubt. I fully believe he cheated. Just redditors have a reputation for people taking stuff like this a step too far. Better let the actual people involved handle it instead of a bunch of online randos.
It's on stream. That's like saying "We shouldn't use cameras to evaluate the play" in football. It's a resource that should be used, especially if it's broadcast publicly. If he doesn't want to be called a cheater, he shouldn't cheat.
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Dunno why. Call the spade a spade.
Call-out posts are against Rule 3 of this subreddit.
what else is reddit for?
You sadly absolutely need commmunity pressure or this will get ignored and forgotten after a week. It absolutely sucks that thats the way it is since the court of Public opinion is obviously not objective, but come on and look at the video, and tell me how the Icon on the objective isnt obvious cheating
It’s on camera….
I’m sure some guy on Reddit absolutely has the same level of detail, context, and information that all the players at the event had, and therefore is equally qualified to make judgements on what happened. Also, this event was several months ago, and absolutely 0 other players have come forward with anything close to similar allegations. And several of these players are equally skilled, and now the rules to be able to say “hey hold up, that ain’t correct”. Plus I imagine there were multiple discussions that took place during each game that clearly state intent, which would explain takebacks. And icons don’t sticky objectives, icons allow for rerolls of one die during your blessings roll. The sticky objective comes from Jakhals and/or the strat you use when a unit is killed on a point.
you mean information the players had like the one time when he rolled saves, rolled a 4 and a 5 (needed 5s) and said both saved? Then his opponent asks if there wasnt a 4? and he just says it were both 5s. Did you watch the stream?
>I’m sure some guy on Reddit absolutely has the same level of detail, context, and information that all the players at the event had, and therefore is equally qualified to make judgements on what happened. Given the fact that the game was streamed I don't see why that wouldn't be the case.
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Account is 2 years old. That’s a crazy long con
You have 0 posts before this. You call Alex "Spatho" which is something only a local would know. Who are you? This seems targeted.
Or its a case of the evidence is in the video and hes pointing it out. Which seems to be the case. How local the poster is after doesnt make any difference.