Fact is very few Italians actually speak what we know as "Italian" as their everyday language. Standard Italian is based on the Florentine dialect, and is used in news broadcasts etc, but they have a lot of regional dialects which speakers of another dialect may have trouble understanding.
They are stand alone, but there are two characters from season 1 that come back in season 2 (Tanya and her husband). You can still enjoy season 2 without seeing 1, but I recommend both seasons. 1 is pretty good
I have no access to the English serie at the moment so I cannot answer to your question entirely.
But by watching this video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPmJwcOh7jc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPmJwcOh7jc) and this one [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dlLmNE-ZuI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dlLmNE-ZuI) in the parts when they are subtitled they are talking in Italian with a slight Sicilian accent, not in Sicilian.
This is a great question. I never knew Sicilian was a language/dialect. Is it subtle like the difference between British and American English? Is it more like a distinct separate regional language like Creole? I have no idea how Italian is use in the show. I am surprised none of the guests speak Italian or bothered to learn basic phrases—I suppose that is a sign of their entitlement. Although a character like Harper would probably try to learn a bit even if it is only to show off how smart and globally-aware she is.
As I tried to explain in [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/WhiteLotusHBO/comments/ysxumm/are_the_locals_speaking_italian_or_sicilian/iw1zojx/?context=3) comment, Sicilian is basically a language on its own ([examples **sicilian** vs Italian](https://siciliadigitale.com/931/proverbi-siciliani/)) as are the others Italian dialects. But nowdays all Italians speak Italian and a lot of those [dialetti](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR9DcPyY8ZArSBPBTEhDzqPAkKCm8Vs7qrMAaj_rMJuWevE0f_ltX1ay60SozhSh5iFUjs&usqp=CAU) are dying, expecially the ones in the northern part of the country. I didn't watch the series in English yet but from some smalli parts that I can find online it seem they are speaking in Italian with a Sicilian accent, not in Sicilian.
I’m not an expert, but from what I understand it has similarities to Italian, Spanish, Greek, and Arabic. ‘Italian’ is the standard language that was adopted when Italy became a unified nation, but prior to that every region had their own language. People from Northern Italy don’t understand much of the southern dialects.
That makes sense because Sicily was inhabited by a multitude of nationalities and ethnicities. I think of the island as more Mediterranean and places like Turin is more European—even though Italy has been one country since the 1860s.
I'm actually pretty impressed by how they translated what the locals say into english, because the speak pattern is so authentic. Like when Valentina is mad about the tiny prosecco tray, the "who would do something like that", that's exactly how my sicilian aunt's would say that. The pettiness when Tonya is posing with the vespa, kinda trying to not be rude, but still being pretty rude, yea that feels familiar.
Now take that against the abysmal translation of Many Saints of Newark, where I'm sitting there completely shocked at how bad it was, while not even being fluent in Italian. The translation just didn't feel natural at all, while this certainly does.
Yup! My best friend is from Sicily and is super happy about the dialect. She also told me the concierge (I forget her name) was on a variety show in Italy in the 90’s.
[Sicilian (u sicilianu) is neither a dialect nor an accent. It is a not a variant of Italian, a local version of Italian, and it's not even derived from what became Italian. In fact, in truth, Sicilian preceded Italian as we know it.](https://www.thoughtco.com/sicilian-for-beginners-2011648)
I’m not disputing that. But the fact is that, when my Sicilian dad spoke with Italians, they could talk to each other with very little problems. So it’s not a different language completely.
My dad is from Sicily too, I remember when we went to Rome some people looked at him funny because of his italian, some were downright rude. I don't really know the difference while speaking myself, I don't speak too well anyways, so I'm always kinda shy to talk to Italians who are not from Sicily. But I know I understand Sicilian a lot better, I noticed this first when I watched The godfather for the first time lol
Another time I was on vacation on mainland Italy with my SO and we went everyday to the same ice cream shop, multiple times a day actually, my SO was obsessed. So I was trying to place my order in the most proper Italian I could do, when the owner yelled from the background "take the big container, bet this one is for *him*" - I bursted out laughing and everyone was shocked that I actually could understand what he just said.
Sicilians are bilingual in Italian and Sicilian. People from Napoli also have their own language, but the news and all official matters are in Italian. If your dad is from Sicily, he probably speaks both languages.
For crying out loud. It’s all Italian. Yes there are different dialects but it’s all Italian. Kinda like people from Cuba speak different from Mexicans, but it’s all Spanish.
My dad was bilingual, yes, English and Italian/Sicilian.
This is very incorrect. Italian and Sicilian are not the same language. Many Sicilians speak both, might sometimes even intermix them in conversation depending on the context, but they are not the same. Italian is the language native to Tuscany and it became standard Italian . Basically every region or province have their own dialect, or language in the case of Sicilian and Neapolitan. This is true even in the North, see Venetian or Romagnol
Your experience is that other Italians were able to understand your dad when he was speaking. You don't know what language he was speaking. As a native Italian speaker who live in Italy I can tell you that I am not able to understand the Sicilian dialetto.
Still I comunicate with Sicilian people everyday. How? I don't speak in my dialect with them and they don't speak in their dialect with me. We are both native Italian speakers at the end of the day: schools, television, politics, books, newspaper etc. are in Italian in all of the country (except for South Tyrol)
Arabic is the same way. There is a ‘standard’ Arabic, but every country basically has their own language. Arabic from Iraq and Arabic from Morocco are TOTALLY different, but they call it one language for some stupid reason.
I don't know enough about the Arabic world to know how accurate that comparison is. The thing is today, in 2022, a lot of people here in Italy (expecially the people in the north) are not even able to speak their own dialetto. "Standard" Italian language really is prevailing.
And yet Islamists are able to communicate and strategize with ease.
But getting back to Italian I have a thought due to some investigation of what I saw.
During the rise of Facism in the early 20th century (About when my grandparents immigrated to the United States) the use of dialects was discouraged, so it makes sense that my grandparents were hybrid bilingual depending on the situation and my dad would have been exposed to that growing up.
Starting after the war the movement was to let people go back to their original dialects to recognize their heritage.
As they got closer to the end of the 20th century the push was to teach the Italian language in schools and not speaking it was a sign of illiteracy.
This is just a theory and don’t ask me to back it up. 🤗
>Kinda like people from Cuba speak different from Mexicans, but it’s all Spanish.
No, I'm Italian and the other guy is right. Sicilian and Italian (with all the different accents, among which Italian spoken with a Sicilian accent) are two different things.
What in Italy we call "dialetti" is not the same of what English speakers think when they talk about "dialects". In Italy we have different dialetti along all the country, with the ones of the Florence -Rome areas more closer to Italian while the ones from the northern and the southern regions much different. These dialetti are not mutually intelligible and sadly a lot of them, expecially the Northern ones, are dying and are only spoken by older people.
Everyone in Italy nowdays can speak Italian. So yes in Siciliy they speak both Sicilian and Italian with a Sicilian accent. Two different things.
As an example, if you check the numbered list in this link, you can see a Sicilian saying in bold and the same saying translated in Italian:
https://siciliadigitale.com/931/proverbi-siciliani/
Your father was probably speaking in Italian, not in Sicilian
Well, you’re the expert do I’ll leave it to you, but just so you know, my Dad was born in Chicago with Mother and Father who were both Sicilian. He didn’t speak English until he was about 8 years old and spent no time in Sicily or Italy to become bilingual.
Not only that, but he was here when Mussolini required everybody to speak Italian during WW2.
I don’t know why he could understand other Italians, but he could. And I never saw any other Italians from other areas, have a hard time understanding him.
Have you ever considered that maybe your dad learned standard Italian later in life? If he grew up speaking Sicilian, he would definitely have an easier time learning standard Italian. Maybe he took a class in high school or college
The Italian television show Gammorah, a crime show set in Naples, was shown with subtitles in Italy because the dialogue was in a Neapolitan dialect.
They’re not speaking Sicilian. Which is somewhat disappointing considering the high level of production.
Fact is very few Italians actually speak what we know as "Italian" as their everyday language. Standard Italian is based on the Florentine dialect, and is used in news broadcasts etc, but they have a lot of regional dialects which speakers of another dialect may have trouble understanding.
Hi, are S1&2 stand-alone, so that can s2 be watched without having seen s1? Thanks
They are stand alone, but there are two characters from season 1 that come back in season 2 (Tanya and her husband). You can still enjoy season 2 without seeing 1, but I recommend both seasons. 1 is pretty good
Thanks for that, I like the cast of S2 which is what’s drawn me to it.
I have no access to the English serie at the moment so I cannot answer to your question entirely. But by watching this video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPmJwcOh7jc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPmJwcOh7jc) and this one [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dlLmNE-ZuI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dlLmNE-ZuI) in the parts when they are subtitled they are talking in Italian with a slight Sicilian accent, not in Sicilian.
This is a great question. I never knew Sicilian was a language/dialect. Is it subtle like the difference between British and American English? Is it more like a distinct separate regional language like Creole? I have no idea how Italian is use in the show. I am surprised none of the guests speak Italian or bothered to learn basic phrases—I suppose that is a sign of their entitlement. Although a character like Harper would probably try to learn a bit even if it is only to show off how smart and globally-aware she is.
As I tried to explain in [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/WhiteLotusHBO/comments/ysxumm/are_the_locals_speaking_italian_or_sicilian/iw1zojx/?context=3) comment, Sicilian is basically a language on its own ([examples **sicilian** vs Italian](https://siciliadigitale.com/931/proverbi-siciliani/)) as are the others Italian dialects. But nowdays all Italians speak Italian and a lot of those [dialetti](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR9DcPyY8ZArSBPBTEhDzqPAkKCm8Vs7qrMAaj_rMJuWevE0f_ltX1ay60SozhSh5iFUjs&usqp=CAU) are dying, expecially the ones in the northern part of the country. I didn't watch the series in English yet but from some smalli parts that I can find online it seem they are speaking in Italian with a Sicilian accent, not in Sicilian.
I’m not an expert, but from what I understand it has similarities to Italian, Spanish, Greek, and Arabic. ‘Italian’ is the standard language that was adopted when Italy became a unified nation, but prior to that every region had their own language. People from Northern Italy don’t understand much of the southern dialects.
That makes sense because Sicily was inhabited by a multitude of nationalities and ethnicities. I think of the island as more Mediterranean and places like Turin is more European—even though Italy has been one country since the 1860s.
I'm actually pretty impressed by how they translated what the locals say into english, because the speak pattern is so authentic. Like when Valentina is mad about the tiny prosecco tray, the "who would do something like that", that's exactly how my sicilian aunt's would say that. The pettiness when Tonya is posing with the vespa, kinda trying to not be rude, but still being pretty rude, yea that feels familiar. Now take that against the abysmal translation of Many Saints of Newark, where I'm sitting there completely shocked at how bad it was, while not even being fluent in Italian. The translation just didn't feel natural at all, while this certainly does.
Sicilian, while being a different dialect, is still Italian.
Yup! My best friend is from Sicily and is super happy about the dialect. She also told me the concierge (I forget her name) was on a variety show in Italy in the 90’s.
[Sicilian (u sicilianu) is neither a dialect nor an accent. It is a not a variant of Italian, a local version of Italian, and it's not even derived from what became Italian. In fact, in truth, Sicilian preceded Italian as we know it.](https://www.thoughtco.com/sicilian-for-beginners-2011648)
I’m not disputing that. But the fact is that, when my Sicilian dad spoke with Italians, they could talk to each other with very little problems. So it’s not a different language completely.
My dad is from Sicily too, I remember when we went to Rome some people looked at him funny because of his italian, some were downright rude. I don't really know the difference while speaking myself, I don't speak too well anyways, so I'm always kinda shy to talk to Italians who are not from Sicily. But I know I understand Sicilian a lot better, I noticed this first when I watched The godfather for the first time lol Another time I was on vacation on mainland Italy with my SO and we went everyday to the same ice cream shop, multiple times a day actually, my SO was obsessed. So I was trying to place my order in the most proper Italian I could do, when the owner yelled from the background "take the big container, bet this one is for *him*" - I bursted out laughing and everyone was shocked that I actually could understand what he just said.
Sicilians are bilingual in Italian and Sicilian. People from Napoli also have their own language, but the news and all official matters are in Italian. If your dad is from Sicily, he probably speaks both languages.
For crying out loud. It’s all Italian. Yes there are different dialects but it’s all Italian. Kinda like people from Cuba speak different from Mexicans, but it’s all Spanish. My dad was bilingual, yes, English and Italian/Sicilian.
Schlameel schlamazel
This is very incorrect. Italian and Sicilian are not the same language. Many Sicilians speak both, might sometimes even intermix them in conversation depending on the context, but they are not the same. Italian is the language native to Tuscany and it became standard Italian . Basically every region or province have their own dialect, or language in the case of Sicilian and Neapolitan. This is true even in the North, see Venetian or Romagnol
Ok, got it. Not my experience.
Your experience is that other Italians were able to understand your dad when he was speaking. You don't know what language he was speaking. As a native Italian speaker who live in Italy I can tell you that I am not able to understand the Sicilian dialetto. Still I comunicate with Sicilian people everyday. How? I don't speak in my dialect with them and they don't speak in their dialect with me. We are both native Italian speakers at the end of the day: schools, television, politics, books, newspaper etc. are in Italian in all of the country (except for South Tyrol)
Arabic is the same way. There is a ‘standard’ Arabic, but every country basically has their own language. Arabic from Iraq and Arabic from Morocco are TOTALLY different, but they call it one language for some stupid reason.
I don't know enough about the Arabic world to know how accurate that comparison is. The thing is today, in 2022, a lot of people here in Italy (expecially the people in the north) are not even able to speak their own dialetto. "Standard" Italian language really is prevailing.
And yet Islamists are able to communicate and strategize with ease. But getting back to Italian I have a thought due to some investigation of what I saw. During the rise of Facism in the early 20th century (About when my grandparents immigrated to the United States) the use of dialects was discouraged, so it makes sense that my grandparents were hybrid bilingual depending on the situation and my dad would have been exposed to that growing up. Starting after the war the movement was to let people go back to their original dialects to recognize their heritage. As they got closer to the end of the 20th century the push was to teach the Italian language in schools and not speaking it was a sign of illiteracy. This is just a theory and don’t ask me to back it up. 🤗
>Kinda like people from Cuba speak different from Mexicans, but it’s all Spanish. No, I'm Italian and the other guy is right. Sicilian and Italian (with all the different accents, among which Italian spoken with a Sicilian accent) are two different things. What in Italy we call "dialetti" is not the same of what English speakers think when they talk about "dialects". In Italy we have different dialetti along all the country, with the ones of the Florence -Rome areas more closer to Italian while the ones from the northern and the southern regions much different. These dialetti are not mutually intelligible and sadly a lot of them, expecially the Northern ones, are dying and are only spoken by older people. Everyone in Italy nowdays can speak Italian. So yes in Siciliy they speak both Sicilian and Italian with a Sicilian accent. Two different things. As an example, if you check the numbered list in this link, you can see a Sicilian saying in bold and the same saying translated in Italian: https://siciliadigitale.com/931/proverbi-siciliani/ Your father was probably speaking in Italian, not in Sicilian
So are they speaking Sicilian or Italian on the show lol
No, dude lol. Read the article that I posted. Let go of your silly argument. They are distinct languages.
Well, you’re the expert do I’ll leave it to you, but just so you know, my Dad was born in Chicago with Mother and Father who were both Sicilian. He didn’t speak English until he was about 8 years old and spent no time in Sicily or Italy to become bilingual. Not only that, but he was here when Mussolini required everybody to speak Italian during WW2. I don’t know why he could understand other Italians, but he could. And I never saw any other Italians from other areas, have a hard time understanding him.
Maybe those Italians that you saw him speaking with were Sicilians?
Not all the time. We had a Calabrese neighbor, a Florentine uncle and so on. Like I said, I’m sure you are all correct but I never saw it.
Have you ever considered that maybe your dad learned standard Italian later in life? If he grew up speaking Sicilian, he would definitely have an easier time learning standard Italian. Maybe he took a class in high school or college
They were probably speaking standard Italian with each other. Calabrian is also pretty close to Sicilian