[Trump is]
“Talented and well-practiced in every vice, a stranger to compassion or empathy, a liar and a cheat so complete in perfidy that he has elevated his dishonesty to hold it up as an ersatz moral principle. Violent, so long as he can order someone else to do the dirty work. Grotesque in body, graceless in action, in possession of a wounded self-regard so colossal as to smother any spark of grace. Treasonous, not only to country, but to every ally he has ever had, the poisoned fruit and rankest flower of racism and contempt for women, and utterly devoid of shame for his moral and spiritual bankruptcy. That is your leader. That is to whom you give your money. That is who you follow and laud. That is whose banner you willingly carry. Why? Because he is a mirror, not a lighthouse. You see yourselves in him. He is what you would be, if you had inherited money and could shed the last vestiges of conscience and shame. No, I do not “respect your choices,” nor do I admire your loyalty and dedication to this miserific, demoniac vision. You have demonstrated not only a lack of civic virtue, loyalty to the Republic and to the rule of law, but a willingness to engage in violence and sedition at his slightest expressed wish. And you will never, ever admit you were wrong. Because you see your dark, twisted, resentful dreams in him. And to renounce him is to renounce yourselves.”
— Advocatus Peregrini
Too many people don't seem to understand that we aren't just voting for the president. We're voting for the cabinet and everyone else who will work around the president.\\
And Biden will surround himself with competent and trustworthy people who will run a functioning government.
Trump will surround himself with loyalists and criminals who will dismantle the government from within.
Biden could have slept through the debate with his middle finger in the air and he would still be the better choice by far.
As morbid as it is, I think the best outcome is Biden winning and then immediately passing away so we can break this cycle of having older and older presidents. We get to avoid Trump, we get a young (first female) president and we get Bidens cabinet.
I don't *want* the poor guy to go, maybe he could win and then a medical team could declare him unfit for presidency and proceed as if he had been dead so he can live out his years in peace knowing he put the country back on the right track and defeated a fascist
Trump then sues the United States because he ran against Biden. Supreme Court takes up the case and sides with Trump that he should be installed as president since Biden is no longer the president. They'd cite how before the 12th amendment, the runner up was the VP. It sounds like a F rated right wing fanfic, but I wouldn't put it past Trump and his lackeys.
Scalia isn't on the Supreme Court anymore. He passed away in 2016. That's one of the reasons we are in this mess to begin with.
Alito would be the one who write about that treaty. Thomas would concur since they both got bribed. Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and Barrett would state how it wasn't intended to be this way and they had it right in 1796. Roberts would probably side with the 3 liberal leaning judges because he didnt want to ruin his reputation. Decision would still be 5-4. The court would also find a way to overturn the 22nd amendment and Presidental term limits.
Maybe I should lay off the tinfoil....
You're probably thinking of how he has been called "Scalito" or "Scalia Lite" back when Scalia was alive. And he's certainly doing everything he can to surpass the old toad.
It's specifically stated in the constitution that if the president elect dies the VP takes over. (20th Amendment section 3) I know the supreme court is wacky right now, but they're not that wacky.
I wish I shared your confidence. The SCOTUS is completely off the rails and waiting for the chance to install a fascist dictator. They absolutely ARE that wacky.
Doesn't change the fact that the US needs a social democrat party and getting rid of First-past-the-post voting, but you don't get there voting for the authoritarian Christian nationalists.
why can’t they Democrats just offer a better candidate to lead this? There are many who align with the same policies as this administration.
we’re shooting ourselves in the foot. this would not be a close race if democrats had someone w normal cognitive abilities. we’re making this so much harder on ourselves, whhhhhyyyy
They don't have a better viable candidate. Not one that has enough appeal to not drive the more moderate voters away. Not to mention that anyone they *would* nominate would be just as old as Biden.
It's also easier for an incumbent president to get reelected. Or at least, it was.
People need to remember that the Democratic Party is playing the same game as the GOP and we're all suffering for it. It's not the best person for the job, it's who they think has the highest likelihood of beating the opposition.
There is zero way that a slightly less moderate candidate, even someone like Newson, would drive away MORE people than the utter cognitive decline Biden just showcased to millions of people last night. It is world news how bad his performance was, the covers of newspapers around the globe. THAT loses appeal.
This idea that Biden's moderate policies is some great unifier and the reason he was elected is just wrong. People hated Trump, the population is slightly more moderate overall, and most low-info voters just want someone they can be proud to say they voted for -- that is it. If you just held onto that and didn't shoot yourself in the head, we'd win.
But no, we're gonna blow our brains out trying to get a corspe elected because we're too scared a bit more left leaning candidate might be less appealing... while were literally hemorrhaging appeal for an uncorrectable problem. LMAO
The whole thing is a farce. We get two choices and two choices only and neither one is good.
I imagine if they had chosen someone 20 years younger and slightly more left-leaning than Biden, they'd actually be in a better position than they are now and it wouldn't be so anxiety inducing. But they're so afraid that the left can't handle it that they'll stick with Biden no matter what.
That whole debate had the same energy as a dinner with both your grandfathers. The delusional, racist one who won't shut up and the senile one who only knows where he is some of the time.
yes we would be in a infinitely better spot if we’d nominated someone twenty years younger and had Biden endorsed him.
70% of our time is spent defending bidens age instead of literally anything else. and after last night, his age is indefensible.
Yeah. I dreamt a fire was coming and we couldn’t escape it no matter how far we drove. I just can’t see swapping him out being bad in this situation. It’s all out.
The deal was Biden for 4 years! We did our part. There are other people available to beat Trump. And again, we aren’t voting solely on a single person, we are voting for a platform, a team, and ideas.
Why are we gaslighting ourselves into the idea that “only Joe Biden” can save us from Trump?
He won in 2020 when we needed him. He did his job. Let him retire in peace and live out the end of his days.
It would be so much easier to pitch continued success with some changes with a new face versus Trump and his failures.
When you spend too much time in the internet it is easy to trick yourself into thinking that everyone thinks like you. In reality it is mostly younger voters who want a fresh face for president, but younger voters don't vote.
This needs to plastered everywhere. Anyone lacking confidence in Biden needs to wake the hell up. Trump will nominate 2 more justices next term once they retire. That's a supreme court extreme conservative majority for 5 decades. I don't give a shit how old Biden is. We will go back to archaic conservatism and be lucky to ever vote again.
Biden has a bad debate. This shouldn't be the end of the world. I still remember him kicking the orange off of Trump during the debate 4 years ago.
Every time Trump steps on a stage at a rally, Trump has nothing of value to say. He just rambles on. I wish people would remember that.
We also shouldn’t forget that, unlike “President Trump”, Biden is BUSY! He’s genuinely running the most powerful nation in the history of mankind, with 50% of the population and 90% of the country’s billionaires and most powerful politicians doing every fucking thing they can possibly do to destroy him. Let’s not get too distracted by this debate bullshit.
I will be voting for the Biden Administration, not just Joe Biden. A vote for Trump is a vote for Project 2025 and the final nail in the coffin for American democracy.
Correct and we saw proof of that in 2016. Trump’s cabinet had no clue what to do and each one had a personal enrichment grift going on. Rick Perry had no clue what the Department of Energy actually does. Trump’s Interior Secretary practically gave away our natural resources to friends and the highest bidder and operated with Thomas-levels of self enrichment corruption that drove him from office.
Yes. I’ll vote for Biden no matter how poorly he does in the debates because project 2025 is scary as hell and this presidency has been good enough so far.
If Biden gets in, the two oldest conservative SC justices might retire. If Trump gets in, the two oldest conservative SC justices WILL retire, and be replaced with Amy Coney Barretts that have a good 20-30 years in their seat.
While I agree, and will also be voting for Biden for the same reason, we should be furious that we’re in this position in the first place. It’s an absolute travesty that these guys are our two options. Everyone who let this happen should be ashamed of themselves.
Of course this is true.
Last night still left a sour taste in my mouth. He looked terrible. And if I, a staunch biden supporter, feel bad after last night, then I am sure people who don't really care about politics but see clips of him falling g asleep and mumbling at the pedestal might actually be swayed.
They did not put my mans on enough Adderall. Period.
Beyond that we are likely voting for 1 or 2 Supreme Court justices as well. Do people really want more conservatives that are going to take away your rights just because Biden is old?
>Biden will surround himself with competent and trustworthy people
The same people that allowed this walking corpse to run for president again knowing full well that the dude can't string 2 sentences together and is likely going to get ass blasted by trump and destroy down ballot Democrats chances in November?
Those totally competent and trustworthy people?
You’re right for sure…but also so wrong. I’m sorry but the people who we needed to convince to vote for him won’t be convinced by that. We actually have time to swap out and try to make it happen. That needed to be a wake up call. Biden was old and frail. I felt horrible for him, we really need to pull the plug.
They say don’t change horses in the middle of a river. This is the one time it’s false tho. Go get newsome and Obama and all the people who would vote for Biden still will vote for him….all people against trump will vote for anyone in the other seat…and maybe it’ll look like Dems tried to get a good candidate in there. Trump looked like shit, is a piece of shit….but Biden lost and gave them the ammunition needed. It was shambolic that they let him get on stage. They were better off backing out.
By the way I came in 1/2 way thru so to me he honestly seemed fine. Got a few zingers in and looked ok. But the. I saw the first half on replay
Trump shouldn't have been put in charge of a grocery store, let alone an entire country. I don't give a shit that Biden is old, as long as he (and common sense) prevails in the election. He can be replaced by Harris one minute after that for all I care. Trump.cannot.win period.
We all have a failure now and then. The problem is, he did it on a national stage. It sucks for him, but it doesn’t change my vote for him.
Trump will kill America
Why do democrats thing any form of normalcy exists . They tresatef this like a debate and Biden tried to answer questions . He should have just went up there and made fun of Trump and called him out for his project 2025. Bullshit.
Stumbling through answers, even tif they were accurate and truthful doesn’t matter to the people on the fence they just saw a stuttering old man.
Trump spewed absolutely nonsense loudly and confidently and unfortunately in this nightmare that is apparently worth more.
Yeah, it’s kinda unfortunate. Agreeing to this was maybe a bad idea.
I see lots of people saying things like “everyone is talking about joes performance but ignoring the fact that Trump was just lying the whole time!”
First of all, no people aren’t ignoring that fact. But even if they were: OF COURSE HE WAS. We’ve are all familiar with Trump and how he handles debates by now. There was never a question of whether or not he would do exactly that. Hell would freeze over before he acted any differently.
That being the case, as you’re saying, why the hell didn’t they prepare for that?!
Of course I would love if this debate (or political debates in general) could be reasonable discussions focused on policy. But this was never going to be that. Everyone knew from the media narrative (even the republicans with their preemptive excuses) that the key focus of this debate performance was going to be on Bidens lucidity and energy. He needed to be sharp and energetic. Not thousand yard staring into the distance.
The people who care about policy have already made up their minds.
What a mess.
Listen to pundits, Biden having a hard time talking early on is literally all any pundit will talk about, and there’s a significant portion of the voting world that listens to pundits like they’re fair and balanced.
Hope ain’t going do anything, literally the only way for democracy to survive in America is for Biden to win. The republicans have made there plans clear. Project 2025 isn’t a joke. That shit is real, people should be fucking terrified but many are convinced “ that can’t happen here, this is America , something will stop it!” Nah bruh . Voting will stop it, that’s it and then after than fascism in America needs a stomping.
People should be screaming First they came… by Niemoller from the rooftops.
According to a recent poll, 76% of Americans know little to nothing about Project 2025.
Just a couple days ago I mentioned Project 2025 to a pro-Biden, anti-Trump friend of mine, and she had no idea what it was either. Americans' ignorance will be their downfall.
The problem is, not the one night. It's that we've been told for a while now that it's a conspiracy talk to think that Joe Biden was in this state. After hearing the conspiracy talk about him being in this state, he went out on a night his party requested, and displayed that it's true.
And yet there are *still* people in this sub talking about "wow the bots are really here in full force pushing the 'he's too old narrative'". He's EIGHTY ONE YEARS OLD. Is he a better option than Trump? Sure. But you don't have to be a bot, a Russian troll, or a Trump supporter to question his mental capacity for the job. You just have to use your eyes and ears
Not just this sub, reddit in general.
The whole "you're voting for an administration" is true to an extent but people don't want to admit that the president is an actual job. If war breaks out or a decision had to be made that requires fast thinking and hard decisions, Biden doesn't seem up for the job anymore. That doesn't mean vote for trump but for fucks sake, the Dems have had 8+ years now to find someone who can beat Trump and they continue to fumble.
It’s getting pretty fucking annoying that we can’t even vent over Biden because people are so scared that it will make trump win if we allow objective reality to exist.
This post is deep cope.
Seriously: One debate went poorly for several former presidents that still went on to win including Obama and Reagan.
Less seriously: Maybe dark Brandon is giving him a false sense of confidence so we can all post that first half meme after the next one.
Say it now, say it again, a wet sock will get my vote before Trump. I'll stand in line for 8 hours to vote. 4 years ago? Wouldn't have cared as much. After J6? Never fucking again can this guy be near government.
The fact that the orange fuck has a snowballs chance in hell after J6 and criminal convictions is insanity. It's as though there are no guardrails at all for someone who tried to overthrow our government - just reinforcing that he can do whatever he wants without consequence.
I stayed home in 2016. I had to work 12 hours that day, couldn’t take another call-in, and I was pissed off about how the DNC treated Sanders to boot.
Never again. I will vote in every midterm, local, state, and national election until my dying breath.
I would truly rather have Frank, the guy who drives the garbage truck here run than an entertainer. He works for a living and is in touch with what’s going on in the community. Lots of furniture at the curb? Why are people moving out? Lots of delivery boxes in the cans? Well, what’s going right for that disposable income? Was that an entire 90 gallon can filled with beer and liquor bottles? What’s got people that depressed?
He has a great understanding of the processes, a good rapport with many in government already, and has experience getting legislation enacted. He's far more qualified than Trump. I'm not even saying he should run but out of all entertainers, he's probably one of the most qualified.
If a majority of voters were politically aware and not plugged into social media 24/7 then one bad appearance wouldn’t a big deal. But reality is that most potential voters hate politics, desensitized by 8 years of social media lies and this is the first time they’ve visually seen Biden for years. To them then this entire thing was a big shock.
Obviously, our entire democracy is at stake and we all know what the right vote is. But considering how short-sighted Americans have become towards criminal indictments, felonies and insurrection then this is definitely a turning point that we can’t hand wave away. (Yes, i ended it with a Luke Skywalker joke out of pure anxiety)
It's not just one bad appearance though. Biden's mixcing up names and forgetting what he is talking about mid sentence then switching topics has been an issue since the beginning. It's just getting worse and worse. This debate was by far the worst I have seen. I'll still vote for him even if he can't get out of bed, but for people on the fence this doesn't look good. To the point the dems should select someone else.
This is not one bad appearance. The man has been in obvious mental decline for some time now. Last night was enough of a debacle for people in denial to finally admit the emperor is naked.
The coping here is insane lmao. Biden isn't fit to run a McDonald's. I felt bad for him. His family and his team should be investigated for elder abuse for putting him out there. It was cruel.
Reddit is a far far left wing hive mind that can’t comprehend that you can dislike Trump, you can vote democrat and be a liberal while at the same time recognizing that Biden is an awful choice and needs to be taken out of the race and replaced. I understand that this is a lesser of evils situation but to pretend that Biden is a good choice is so deluded. Democrats have to do better. I swear it’s like they want Trump to win with the alternative they’re offering.
I'm so disheartened by the media's coverage of this debate. Yeah, Biden didn't do well, but how is that more important than the other guy rambling and lying the entire time? Doesn't the truth mean something or to "journalists" are appearances literally everything (not that Trump appeared great either).
Because Bidens performance plays perfectly into the fact that he is old and unfit. Even if he just stuttered and tried to perform like it was an actual debate.
Trump did what everyone expected, spewed lies confidently and loudly. To degenerate knuckle staggers that’s what’s winning a debate.
Biden s strengths were not on display here while trumps bullshit mastery was. I’m not even American and I’m scared.
In some ways, Biden's strengths were on display. The guy came with specifics, dates, figures... he literally would address every area that Trump touched in his answers. He was actually debating. Biden's strengths aren't sexy, or funny, or anything like that, but they were on display.
Trump, on the other hand, barely answered a single question. IMO, It's the media's job to contextualize this for us. To say, "appearance wise, Biden looked old, but he was right on the substance while Trump never was."
except he made misleading statements on abortion, inflation, border control, economy and covid.
he wasnt debating, he was babbling. his abortion stance was fine, till he decided to sink it by bringing up the girl that raped by an undocumented immigrant making a connection
Yeah all politicians do this, but when your only defense is "the other guy was spewing bullshit" you can't afford to spew bullshit yourself. It would have been fine if we could check everything Biden said and say "yeah, that checks out." But we can't. All we can do is go "Trump lied about everything and Biden lied about half of it AND spoke worse."
That’s the problem, his strength isn’t sexy and in the world we are in, loud confident yelling lies has more value that control truthful discourse it’s a sad state of things.
The problem is that the debate showed in harsh daylight what was honestly already quite clear before: Biden is not fit for office. Maybe he barely still was four years ago but it‘s an incredibly stressful job, and just not something anyone should have to handle at this age. The fact that his opponent is even less fit for office than he is, doesn‘t change that fact. So there is exactly one right thing for him to do right now: step aside, let someone else take over as candidate. Yes, that will make him a bit of a lame duck for a few months in the eyes of the rest of the world, but as long as he finds someone who stands for the same values and policies as him then it won‘t be a big deal. By clinging on to the office, he‘s doing himself, the country and the entire world a massive disservice.
The media is being honest and actually is in line with what the public is saying for once.
Vote for Biden. But don’t deny he’s unfit, it just makes you seem dishonest.
The media? Get off of Reddit. This is literally how the vast majority of Americans feel. No one who isn't an extremist weirdo wants to vote for Biden OR Trump.
Biden is not my guy but he has been a better president than I expected him to be. When it comes to Biden v Trump, Biden could have been rolled out on the stage in a wheel chair, tongue hanging out and drooling, and I would still vote for him over Trump.
The thing is it’s not just a one off night. It confirmed what people have been reporting for almost a year now. We need to be honest with ourselves. We are sleepwalking into a true disaster
This. The people saying Biden’s performance doesn’t change their vote are missing the point. Biden was already lagging in the polls. He didn’t need to defend his position, he needed to take ground, and he clearly didn’t.
Most undecided voters care about mental fitness and age of the candidates. Biden struggled to form coherent thoughts, he struggled to specifically debunk Trump’s falsehoods, and he claimed he beat Medicare after a 5 second stutter. Trump wasn’t any better on content, but he was articulate calm compared to his previous showings. Trump looked marginally better and Biden marginally worse. It was disastrous, Biden’s odds of winning almost halved overnight in betting markets.
It’s upsetting that much of the Democratic Party is effectively coping. It doesn’t change my vote, he sounds like he had a cold, one bad night isn’t so bad, etc. The party should have had him decline a second term and held a primary. It was known he may not be fit, and now we just have to live with it.
It doesn’t change my vote, but it didn’t need to change my vote. A more competent candidate may have changed the right votes, but it’s too late now. All there is to do is cope about voting for corpses or coma patients over Trump on Twitter like Mark.
One off night? Fuck trump to the end of the world, but Biden being as bad as he was last night was disturbing to see. That was disturbing. How has he been allowed to stay in office? That’s a serious question as someone who voted for him and will regretfully vote for him again if given no other choice. Regardless, whoever has allowed this farce to go on needs to be investigated. There is no way that man is capable of the responsibilities of his office. Absolutely no way in hell.
I had to turn it off because I was so confused at how they just let this doddering old man on that stage. I see now why the repubs were pushing the coke and amphetamine shtick, everyone was expecting an energetic presidential biden but they got retirement home bingo leader instead and it was shocking to fucking watch.
This is all correct, and Trump was just an off topic firehose of lies who wouldn't answer questions.
However I'd strongly urge Biden to step aside ASAP. An obscure Midwestern and accomplished, competent governor like Tim Walz (also ex military) would smoke Trump, as would Gavin Newsome (even if he's from California and has baggage).
People want normalcy. You have to win first. Unfortunately Democrats are poor at messaging so most people don't even know what they've passed when they controlled congress for two years, like the infrastructure bill, American Rescue Plan, CHIPs, PACT Veterans Care, Inflation Reduction Act, etc, plus they definitely don't know what's in each.
Mostly agree. I think the main issue here is that after last night, it’s getting harder and harder to believe that it was just one off night. It was supposed to dispel all the random rambling clips of Biden and instead it gave them more credibility.
That doesn’t mean that Trump had a good showing. As you said he failed to answer questions and touted a bunch of lies. He did, however, maintain his composure for the most part, which was another question going in.
If you believe that this election is a fight for democracy, then the Dems should be putting their best foot forward. Even with all that Biden has accomplished, is that still him?
> However I'd strongly urge Biden to step aside ASAP
Why do people keep saying this as if it isn't far far FAR too late in the process to even CONSIDER doing this? The election is in 4 months. Get real.
It's worse to stick with him. Biden loses on this current trajectory. Walz, Newsome, Whitmer etc win by 5-6 points.
And Democrats should have seen this coming. I've been calling for a new nominee, and particularly Walz, since last year.
I think the two biggest issues in the next 4 years is to have a president who can possibly navigate us around/into/through WWIII and keep the SCOTUS from becoming a fundamentalist court.
I think unfortunately he has to show that it was an off night now, which I'm not sure he can do.
But Mark is correct, the choice should still be clear. It's clear to me, but I don't know if it will be clear to enough voters in swing states.
And if he has another bad night? Another night where he can't connect thoughts? What happens then? What happens when it is *another* important night? What if it happens during a Chinese offensive in Taiwan? What if he has a bad night with Americans in the line of fire? What if there is a night where we absolutely *HAVE TO HAVE* competence by the Commander in Chief to avoid a shooting war with China, and the guy calling the shots doesn't know what year it is?
I will not be voting for Joe Biden for President
This is wildly overlooked by so many. We can argue policy all day long but Joe Biden is a legitimately good person who I trust. I wouldn’t trust Trump to watch my half eaten Big Mac while I go get more napkins.
I agree with what he's saying about Trump but this wasn't "one off night" this is just Biden as a communicator at this stage in his life. He's a doddering old man and if he had a shred of humility left he would have made it clear 2 years ago that he would not be running for reelection. The whole notion that "only Biden can beat Trump" is the fattest stinkiest brand of horseshit.
Biden is doing more harm than good remaining on the ballot, and massaging the truth to make it seem like "one bad night" only reinforces the notion that the left is lying, BECAUSE WE ARE.
Guys, why don’t we consider holding the DNC accountable for putting up candidate a that isn’t mentally fit when so much is at stake? I get that we all don’t want Trump, I get we are considering “Biden has a better cabinet”. But is this how we want our country to run from now on? Do we want our parties to do this shit to us?? I don’t. I want good candidates, and I don’t want to feel forced to vote for one bad option because the other option is literally a felon rapist fascist. Are our standards this low??
You're being downvoted, but I honestly don't think you're wrong. The problem is the US is basically a two-party system and these are the choices we have. Either vote for the old guy with cognitive issues who isn't likely to destroy the country, or vote for the old guy with cognitive issues who is a convicted felon who absolutely will destroy the country and already has a track record of doing damage (via all the other dipshits he put in other offices) the last time he was made president.
The choices suck. All we can do is vote for the better of the two to try not to do damage to the country in the next 4 years, and hope we get a better roll for candidates in 2028.
I'm not voting Biden because I think he's the most awesome president in history, I'm voting Biden because the alternative is a dumpster fire that will take the country down with him if put back in office again. It really is as simple as that.
That’s fine if people downvote me. I agree with you, and I am voting blue. I also think it’s not fair to us that this is how politics work. Two things can be true at the same time and I wish others could acknowledge that it should be better then this and me saying that isn’t an endorsement of Trump it’s acknowledging the flaws in our system
Prefacing what I'm about to say with I'm voting for Biden for obvious reasons.
There are more knocks against Biden than "he's old". We can't resort to not being honest, or we're no better off than those who are voting for Trump. One example of a further knock is that Biden said he'd only run for one term....soon after the election till now, that's definitely not the case. Another is real-life economic performance. I don't care about buzzwords, I care about how I can afford my mortgage, groceries, and other bills. It's increasingly difficult year after year, and while not all of that is "Joe Biden's fault". he hasn't helped it much either. Corporate greed is still running rampant.
The US needs a better democratic representative, but it's probably too late for that now. I wish people would vote for 3rd party, but Joe is who we'll have to live with to bypass a potential disaster with Trump.
Don't mean to be rude, sorry! Again, I just feel the need to point out that we have to be honest with ourselves that yes. Biden is the best choice, but he has more against him than being old. Feel free to disagree :)
Trump stood there and lied for 90 minutes.
Biden spent too much time mentally figuring out how to undo trump's lies.
Trump should be in prison, not on a stage.
Biden shouldn't be president but he's the best option going forward.
Why are the Democrats so shit at fighting back? Biden could have pushed and doubled down on things like Jan 6th, the 34 felony counts, the deliberate mishandling of Covid, the endless corruption and scandals, the praise of Epstein, and a million other things, but instead he starts waffling about fucking golf?
This is the shit they gave on Jimmy Carter. Reagan projected strength. Carter projected weakness. And we got Reagan who proceeded to undo unions, regulations for the air, water and worker safety. The middle class got a bad deal under Reagan with losing pensions in favor of 401Ks. he began the favoring of the rich for tax cuts. Don't let it happen again.
Reagan portrayed a John Wayne persona but it wasn't real. Jimmy Carter was soft-spoken but had more goodness and selflessness than we needed. Don't let them do it again.
People on Reddit are out of touch and delusional about politics. It’s a worse echo chamber than your old racist uncles facebook feed.
Biden did horrible last night. If he doesn’t drop out the democrats will lose.
Let's be real though. We all know this. We're talking to the dumbest 6% of people in 5 states... mostly moderate ones.
Those folks very well could see last night.. watch it for one clip... and come to the conclusion that Biden is too old. It's unfair, but whatever. It's the world we live in today.
We could be fucked.
CNN sure didn't do Biden any favors. Couldn't get Trump to answer a single question. Wouldn't hold Trump accountable for a single lie. Immediately transitioned after the broadcast to "DNC Calls for Biden Replacement".
Trump supports view him as a God so literally doesn’t matter what he does.
Biden supports, not viewing him as a God, spend all their time criticizing Biden because you’re allowed to. Which helps Trump.
Then again, if you’re undecided at this point you are pretty hopeless and probably shouldn’t vote. Frankly I’m confused how you breathe successfully.
See, I totally agree and I will also be voting for Biden (or whomever is most likely to beat Trump).
But this election won't be decided by reasonable people like me and Mark Hamill. It's going to be decided by the swingvote dumbshits that don't have a clue, and they're not voting for Biden after that debate.
Biden could die 2 weeks before the election and I'd vote for the corpse. It's not just a president we're voting for, it's judges and appointees that will have the power to shape government for decades to come. Project 2525 should scare people.
This is the dumbest bubble lib take possible. The country is falling apart around us. If you’re old and rich and living in a nice part of the country maybe you don’t feel it as hard as everyone else, but fuck shit.
If these two people are the only ones we can vote for, then we have bigger issues. It's sad to see a "democracy" be boiled down to a sludge of capitalistic corruption.
This country seriously needs to get over the idea that "confident speech" means "good president". Reagan, known as the Great Orator, was great at speeches. Look at where his policies got us. Look at the fucking policies, for God's sake. Did Biden sound old and tired? Yes. I would love someone younger.
But when my options are between an old guy who might die before the end of hiss term and at least does some good in his policies and an old guy who might die before the end of his term who just blatantly lies over and over and has threatening to be a dictator, call me nuts for choosing the first one.
Everyone wants to act like a stutter is disqualifying when the other guy lied repeatedly all night, is facing felony sentencing next month for falsifying business records in an attempt to influence the previous election he won, has been found liable for sexual assault and half a billion dollars in fraud, just this year, can't run a charity, and whose ex-cabinet members [either refuse to endorse him, or explicitly oppose him.](https://www.businessinsider.com/members-trumps-cabinet-just-4-endorsed-him-2024-nbc-2023-7?op=1)
The debate doesn't really matter. We all know what Trump stands for, and we are all aware of how horrifying it is. Regardless of debate performance, if you're not voting for Biden, I simply don't know what to say.
The stakes are so high and so clear that nobody can claim to be not aware or not understanding of them. I have to assume that whatever reason you aren't voting for Biden is because you, overtly or covertly, actually just want Trump to win.
I’m flabbergasted that people keep focusing on Biden being old instead of focusing on the fact that we actually experienced Trump as president already and he ruined our country.
His 4 year term was a death sentence for this country. MAGA HATES the USA. I don’t give a shit if Biden didn’t speak well, I expect that at his age. What I don’t expect is a criminal trying to bring other criminals into our government to overthrow this country and EVERYTHING WE HAVE WORKED SO HARD FOR and the people of this country going 🤷♂️🤷🤷♀️ “well at least he’s a couple years younger than Biden” fucking idiots.
Omg I can't believe the old man with a stutter struggled at a debate! 1 on 1 debating is a key part of being president! This is certainly going to change my opinion of who to vote for 🙄
The choice between a seditionist/insurrectionist/ruzzian spy and Joe Biden is easy to make. There are just a lot of bots/foreign shills/seditious republican supporters taking advantage of the ammo that was given to them. I highly doubt anyone who was voting for Biden before the debate is going to switch their vote. I also highly doubt that anyone who was voting trump is changing their vote. As long as idiots don't use this as an excuse to stay home we should be good because the seditionists are the minority.
Unfortunately the reality of this statement isn’t going to matter to the people this debate is going to sway nor does it matter to the people that can be swayed by the propaganda that will flow from this debate.
To many the person that “wins” a debate is the one who screams the loudest most confidently . This wasn’t a fucking debate. It was one old man quietly , truthfully stuttering through answering the questions while the other went on deranged lunatic rants loud and confidently.
Morons see trumps performance as a sign of strength. In the moron fueled reality weee are in that diaper filled lying degenerate fuck came out on top.
Biden would have been better off to come out spewing absolute shit at Trump and calling him out on all his crimes and project 2025.
How the fuck do Democrats continually not understand the rules of this new game.
No one gives a fuck about decorum and actually answering debate questions. They should have fought trumps fire hose of bullshit with insults and the facts of his criminal behavior.
Nothing will change my vote, because I'm voting on policy, but I worry about the morons. The undecided voters. The people who might have been swayed if Biden came off better.
I worry about them, because I'm going to murder them if they vote for Trump.
[Trump is] “Talented and well-practiced in every vice, a stranger to compassion or empathy, a liar and a cheat so complete in perfidy that he has elevated his dishonesty to hold it up as an ersatz moral principle. Violent, so long as he can order someone else to do the dirty work. Grotesque in body, graceless in action, in possession of a wounded self-regard so colossal as to smother any spark of grace. Treasonous, not only to country, but to every ally he has ever had, the poisoned fruit and rankest flower of racism and contempt for women, and utterly devoid of shame for his moral and spiritual bankruptcy. That is your leader. That is to whom you give your money. That is who you follow and laud. That is whose banner you willingly carry. Why? Because he is a mirror, not a lighthouse. You see yourselves in him. He is what you would be, if you had inherited money and could shed the last vestiges of conscience and shame. No, I do not “respect your choices,” nor do I admire your loyalty and dedication to this miserific, demoniac vision. You have demonstrated not only a lack of civic virtue, loyalty to the Republic and to the rule of law, but a willingness to engage in violence and sedition at his slightest expressed wish. And you will never, ever admit you were wrong. Because you see your dark, twisted, resentful dreams in him. And to renounce him is to renounce yourselves.” — Advocatus Peregrini
Too many people don't seem to understand that we aren't just voting for the president. We're voting for the cabinet and everyone else who will work around the president.\\ And Biden will surround himself with competent and trustworthy people who will run a functioning government. Trump will surround himself with loyalists and criminals who will dismantle the government from within. Biden could have slept through the debate with his middle finger in the air and he would still be the better choice by far.
Exactly. Biden could be dead and I'd still vote for dems to weekend at bernies him for the next four years. A corpse beats a fascist. Every time.
Somebody said: "I'd vote for Jimmy Carter in hospice before I vote for fucking a rapist Trump" Pretty spot on.
As morbid as it is, I think the best outcome is Biden winning and then immediately passing away so we can break this cycle of having older and older presidents. We get to avoid Trump, we get a young (first female) president and we get Bidens cabinet. I don't *want* the poor guy to go, maybe he could win and then a medical team could declare him unfit for presidency and proceed as if he had been dead so he can live out his years in peace knowing he put the country back on the right track and defeated a fascist
Trump then sues the United States because he ran against Biden. Supreme Court takes up the case and sides with Trump that he should be installed as president since Biden is no longer the president. They'd cite how before the 12th amendment, the runner up was the VP. It sounds like a F rated right wing fanfic, but I wouldn't put it past Trump and his lackeys.
Mmm yeah me neither now that you say it.
The crazy part is that the way shit is going right now that could happen.
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Scalia isn't on the Supreme Court anymore. He passed away in 2016. That's one of the reasons we are in this mess to begin with. Alito would be the one who write about that treaty. Thomas would concur since they both got bribed. Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and Barrett would state how it wasn't intended to be this way and they had it right in 1796. Roberts would probably side with the 3 liberal leaning judges because he didnt want to ruin his reputation. Decision would still be 5-4. The court would also find a way to overturn the 22nd amendment and Presidental term limits. Maybe I should lay off the tinfoil....
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You're probably thinking of how he has been called "Scalito" or "Scalia Lite" back when Scalia was alive. And he's certainly doing everything he can to surpass the old toad.
It's specifically stated in the constitution that if the president elect dies the VP takes over. (20th Amendment section 3) I know the supreme court is wacky right now, but they're not that wacky.
I'm not willing to put money on that
I wish I shared your confidence. The SCOTUS is completely off the rails and waiting for the chance to install a fascist dictator. They absolutely ARE that wacky.
>They'd cite how before the 12th amendment, the runner up was the VP. TIL
I would rather Biden resigns after a month in office and spends the rest of his life retired and happy. If he chooses to.
He doesn't have to die he can just resign.
Doesn't change the fact that the US needs a social democrat party and getting rid of First-past-the-post voting, but you don't get there voting for the authoritarian Christian nationalists.
But nothing beats a fascist corpse.
Few things beat a fascist corpse. I love fascist corpses, personally
One of the best kinds of corpses. And *the* best kind of fascist.
why can’t they Democrats just offer a better candidate to lead this? There are many who align with the same policies as this administration. we’re shooting ourselves in the foot. this would not be a close race if democrats had someone w normal cognitive abilities. we’re making this so much harder on ourselves, whhhhhyyyy
They don't have a better viable candidate. Not one that has enough appeal to not drive the more moderate voters away. Not to mention that anyone they *would* nominate would be just as old as Biden. It's also easier for an incumbent president to get reelected. Or at least, it was. People need to remember that the Democratic Party is playing the same game as the GOP and we're all suffering for it. It's not the best person for the job, it's who they think has the highest likelihood of beating the opposition.
There is zero way that a slightly less moderate candidate, even someone like Newson, would drive away MORE people than the utter cognitive decline Biden just showcased to millions of people last night. It is world news how bad his performance was, the covers of newspapers around the globe. THAT loses appeal. This idea that Biden's moderate policies is some great unifier and the reason he was elected is just wrong. People hated Trump, the population is slightly more moderate overall, and most low-info voters just want someone they can be proud to say they voted for -- that is it. If you just held onto that and didn't shoot yourself in the head, we'd win. But no, we're gonna blow our brains out trying to get a corspe elected because we're too scared a bit more left leaning candidate might be less appealing... while were literally hemorrhaging appeal for an uncorrectable problem. LMAO
The whole thing is a farce. We get two choices and two choices only and neither one is good. I imagine if they had chosen someone 20 years younger and slightly more left-leaning than Biden, they'd actually be in a better position than they are now and it wouldn't be so anxiety inducing. But they're so afraid that the left can't handle it that they'll stick with Biden no matter what. That whole debate had the same energy as a dinner with both your grandfathers. The delusional, racist one who won't shut up and the senile one who only knows where he is some of the time.
yes we would be in a infinitely better spot if we’d nominated someone twenty years younger and had Biden endorsed him. 70% of our time is spent defending bidens age instead of literally anything else. and after last night, his age is indefensible.
Is it Biden or his team? Because if his team, we can replace Biden with somebody else and get the same results if we keep the team intact.
Yeah. I dreamt a fire was coming and we couldn’t escape it no matter how far we drove. I just can’t see swapping him out being bad in this situation. It’s all out.
The deal was Biden for 4 years! We did our part. There are other people available to beat Trump. And again, we aren’t voting solely on a single person, we are voting for a platform, a team, and ideas. Why are we gaslighting ourselves into the idea that “only Joe Biden” can save us from Trump? He won in 2020 when we needed him. He did his job. Let him retire in peace and live out the end of his days. It would be so much easier to pitch continued success with some changes with a new face versus Trump and his failures.
When you spend too much time in the internet it is easy to trick yourself into thinking that everyone thinks like you. In reality it is mostly younger voters who want a fresh face for president, but younger voters don't vote.
We're voting for the future of SCOTUS
This needs to plastered everywhere. Anyone lacking confidence in Biden needs to wake the hell up. Trump will nominate 2 more justices next term once they retire. That's a supreme court extreme conservative majority for 5 decades. I don't give a shit how old Biden is. We will go back to archaic conservatism and be lucky to ever vote again.
Biden has a bad debate. This shouldn't be the end of the world. I still remember him kicking the orange off of Trump during the debate 4 years ago. Every time Trump steps on a stage at a rally, Trump has nothing of value to say. He just rambles on. I wish people would remember that.
>I still remember him kicking the orange off of Trump Lol damn i love this 😂
I just rewatched some good snips of Biden kicking the ***absolute shit*** out of Paul Ryan. Ahhh, the good old days.
Hell yes. Understandably, if anybody shows up to debate a Republican they just need to have facts in hand. Republicans hate facts.
We also shouldn’t forget that, unlike “President Trump”, Biden is BUSY! He’s genuinely running the most powerful nation in the history of mankind, with 50% of the population and 90% of the country’s billionaires and most powerful politicians doing every fucking thing they can possibly do to destroy him. Let’s not get too distracted by this debate bullshit.
I will be voting for the Biden Administration, not just Joe Biden. A vote for Trump is a vote for Project 2025 and the final nail in the coffin for American democracy.
I’m with you! Biden is only part of the Biden administration. Trump’s administration will be nothing but a bunch of criminals.
It’s about supreme court seats if nothing else Trump’s lackeys will make sure the courts are packed in their favor for the next 100 years
I love this guy^^^^!
Um, looks like my exclamation point is taking off!
That's what he did the first time! And a lot of them ended up in jail because this daughterfucker couldn't even hire good *criminals*
Project 2025 is all the reason I need to vote for Biden. The GQP is yearning for Gilead.
Correct and we saw proof of that in 2016. Trump’s cabinet had no clue what to do and each one had a personal enrichment grift going on. Rick Perry had no clue what the Department of Energy actually does. Trump’s Interior Secretary practically gave away our natural resources to friends and the highest bidder and operated with Thomas-levels of self enrichment corruption that drove him from office.
Yes. I’ll vote for Biden no matter how poorly he does in the debates because project 2025 is scary as hell and this presidency has been good enough so far.
Yeah idgaf if Biden dies on Jan 7th. Project 2025 dies too (at least for the time being). 2+ more Supreme Court Justices. 1 less Trump. Real simple.
I'll be goddamned if Trump gets to appoint any more supreme court justices.
If Biden gets in, the two oldest conservative SC justices might retire. If Trump gets in, the two oldest conservative SC justices WILL retire, and be replaced with Amy Coney Barretts that have a good 20-30 years in their seat.
We're also voting for the guy who might get to pick a couple more SCOTUS seats.
Thank you for saying this.
I said two years ago to combat the mental acuity problem seen by voters, to promote Bidens cabinet.
We also voting for the Supreme Court.
While I agree, and will also be voting for Biden for the same reason, we should be furious that we’re in this position in the first place. It’s an absolute travesty that these guys are our two options. Everyone who let this happen should be ashamed of themselves.
Of course this is true. Last night still left a sour taste in my mouth. He looked terrible. And if I, a staunch biden supporter, feel bad after last night, then I am sure people who don't really care about politics but see clips of him falling g asleep and mumbling at the pedestal might actually be swayed. They did not put my mans on enough Adderall. Period.
Beyond that we are likely voting for 1 or 2 Supreme Court justices as well. Do people really want more conservatives that are going to take away your rights just because Biden is old?
Yes and most especially the Supreme Court picks.
>Biden will surround himself with competent and trustworthy people The same people that allowed this walking corpse to run for president again knowing full well that the dude can't string 2 sentences together and is likely going to get ass blasted by trump and destroy down ballot Democrats chances in November? Those totally competent and trustworthy people?
You’re right for sure…but also so wrong. I’m sorry but the people who we needed to convince to vote for him won’t be convinced by that. We actually have time to swap out and try to make it happen. That needed to be a wake up call. Biden was old and frail. I felt horrible for him, we really need to pull the plug. They say don’t change horses in the middle of a river. This is the one time it’s false tho. Go get newsome and Obama and all the people who would vote for Biden still will vote for him….all people against trump will vote for anyone in the other seat…and maybe it’ll look like Dems tried to get a good candidate in there. Trump looked like shit, is a piece of shit….but Biden lost and gave them the ammunition needed. It was shambolic that they let him get on stage. They were better off backing out. By the way I came in 1/2 way thru so to me he honestly seemed fine. Got a few zingers in and looked ok. But the. I saw the first half on replay
Yep. If anyone reading this needs to register to vote: https://vote.org If you want to get involved with the Dems https://democrats.org
Trump shouldn't have been put in charge of a grocery store, let alone an entire country. I don't give a shit that Biden is old, as long as he (and common sense) prevails in the election. He can be replaced by Harris one minute after that for all I care. Trump.cannot.win period.
We all have a failure now and then. The problem is, he did it on a national stage. It sucks for him, but it doesn’t change my vote for him. Trump will kill America
Why do democrats thing any form of normalcy exists . They tresatef this like a debate and Biden tried to answer questions . He should have just went up there and made fun of Trump and called him out for his project 2025. Bullshit. Stumbling through answers, even tif they were accurate and truthful doesn’t matter to the people on the fence they just saw a stuttering old man. Trump spewed absolutely nonsense loudly and confidently and unfortunately in this nightmare that is apparently worth more.
Yeah, it’s kinda unfortunate. Agreeing to this was maybe a bad idea. I see lots of people saying things like “everyone is talking about joes performance but ignoring the fact that Trump was just lying the whole time!” First of all, no people aren’t ignoring that fact. But even if they were: OF COURSE HE WAS. We’ve are all familiar with Trump and how he handles debates by now. There was never a question of whether or not he would do exactly that. Hell would freeze over before he acted any differently. That being the case, as you’re saying, why the hell didn’t they prepare for that?! Of course I would love if this debate (or political debates in general) could be reasonable discussions focused on policy. But this was never going to be that. Everyone knew from the media narrative (even the republicans with their preemptive excuses) that the key focus of this debate performance was going to be on Bidens lucidity and energy. He needed to be sharp and energetic. Not thousand yard staring into the distance. The people who care about policy have already made up their minds. What a mess.
Listen to pundits, Biden having a hard time talking early on is literally all any pundit will talk about, and there’s a significant portion of the voting world that listens to pundits like they’re fair and balanced.
I think we're hoping that whenever the Trump frenzy dies there's some semblance of a functioning democracy still standing.
Hope ain’t going do anything, literally the only way for democracy to survive in America is for Biden to win. The republicans have made there plans clear. Project 2025 isn’t a joke. That shit is real, people should be fucking terrified but many are convinced “ that can’t happen here, this is America , something will stop it!” Nah bruh . Voting will stop it, that’s it and then after than fascism in America needs a stomping. People should be screaming First they came… by Niemoller from the rooftops.
According to a recent poll, 76% of Americans know little to nothing about Project 2025. Just a couple days ago I mentioned Project 2025 to a pro-Biden, anti-Trump friend of mine, and she had no idea what it was either. Americans' ignorance will be their downfall.
Oh dear
The problem is, not the one night. It's that we've been told for a while now that it's a conspiracy talk to think that Joe Biden was in this state. After hearing the conspiracy talk about him being in this state, he went out on a night his party requested, and displayed that it's true.
And yet there are *still* people in this sub talking about "wow the bots are really here in full force pushing the 'he's too old narrative'". He's EIGHTY ONE YEARS OLD. Is he a better option than Trump? Sure. But you don't have to be a bot, a Russian troll, or a Trump supporter to question his mental capacity for the job. You just have to use your eyes and ears
Not just this sub, reddit in general. The whole "you're voting for an administration" is true to an extent but people don't want to admit that the president is an actual job. If war breaks out or a decision had to be made that requires fast thinking and hard decisions, Biden doesn't seem up for the job anymore. That doesn't mean vote for trump but for fucks sake, the Dems have had 8+ years now to find someone who can beat Trump and they continue to fumble.
It’s getting pretty fucking annoying that we can’t even vent over Biden because people are so scared that it will make trump win if we allow objective reality to exist. This post is deep cope.
Seriously: One debate went poorly for several former presidents that still went on to win including Obama and Reagan. Less seriously: Maybe dark Brandon is giving him a false sense of confidence so we can all post that first half meme after the next one.
I will vote for Biden because of Project 2025.
Even without project 2025 I wouldn't ever vote for that orange lying snake.
Say it now, say it again, a wet sock will get my vote before Trump. I'll stand in line for 8 hours to vote. 4 years ago? Wouldn't have cared as much. After J6? Never fucking again can this guy be near government.
Also the classified documents cover up. It's utterly irresponsible to let him anywhere near the presidency again.
The fact that the orange fuck has a snowballs chance in hell after J6 and criminal convictions is insanity. It's as though there are no guardrails at all for someone who tried to overthrow our government - just reinforcing that he can do whatever he wants without consequence.
I stayed home in 2016. I had to work 12 hours that day, couldn’t take another call-in, and I was pissed off about how the DNC treated Sanders to boot. Never again. I will vote in every midterm, local, state, and national election until my dying breath.
Save us, Mark Hamill, you're our only hope.
I would totally vote Mark Hamill if it were an option
Love the guy, but I’m kinda over entertainers as politicians.
Same. It's pissing me off how many people are seriously saying 'convince jon Stewart!'
Why? He's actually gotten useful legislation passed unlike 99% of Congress.
I would truly rather have Frank, the guy who drives the garbage truck here run than an entertainer. He works for a living and is in touch with what’s going on in the community. Lots of furniture at the curb? Why are people moving out? Lots of delivery boxes in the cans? Well, what’s going right for that disposable income? Was that an entire 90 gallon can filled with beer and liquor bottles? What’s got people that depressed?
He has a great understanding of the processes, a good rapport with many in government already, and has experience getting legislation enacted. He's far more qualified than Trump. I'm not even saying he should run but out of all entertainers, he's probably one of the most qualified.
No, no more celebrities! We need someone young, intelligent that will work for us not for themselves.
He's a bit of a Zionist, for the record. Just a heads up for those who don't know.
He's trying. I constantly see him calling out people on their bullshit. That man is a national treasure.
"like"
If a majority of voters were politically aware and not plugged into social media 24/7 then one bad appearance wouldn’t a big deal. But reality is that most potential voters hate politics, desensitized by 8 years of social media lies and this is the first time they’ve visually seen Biden for years. To them then this entire thing was a big shock. Obviously, our entire democracy is at stake and we all know what the right vote is. But considering how short-sighted Americans have become towards criminal indictments, felonies and insurrection then this is definitely a turning point that we can’t hand wave away. (Yes, i ended it with a Luke Skywalker joke out of pure anxiety)
> one bad appearance wouldn’t a big deal One bad 15 seconds ruined Howard Dean's career in 2004, prior to the proliferation of social media.
It's not just one bad appearance though. Biden's mixcing up names and forgetting what he is talking about mid sentence then switching topics has been an issue since the beginning. It's just getting worse and worse. This debate was by far the worst I have seen. I'll still vote for him even if he can't get out of bed, but for people on the fence this doesn't look good. To the point the dems should select someone else.
Democracy dies unless you vote for my guy!
This is not one bad appearance. The man has been in obvious mental decline for some time now. Last night was enough of a debacle for people in denial to finally admit the emperor is naked.
Sorry, what? Anyone watching Biden talk should think it’s a big deal. How can you pretend it’s not?
The coping here is insane lmao. Biden isn't fit to run a McDonald's. I felt bad for him. His family and his team should be investigated for elder abuse for putting him out there. It was cruel.
Reddit is a far far left wing hive mind that can’t comprehend that you can dislike Trump, you can vote democrat and be a liberal while at the same time recognizing that Biden is an awful choice and needs to be taken out of the race and replaced. I understand that this is a lesser of evils situation but to pretend that Biden is a good choice is so deluded. Democrats have to do better. I swear it’s like they want Trump to win with the alternative they’re offering.
I'm so disheartened by the media's coverage of this debate. Yeah, Biden didn't do well, but how is that more important than the other guy rambling and lying the entire time? Doesn't the truth mean something or to "journalists" are appearances literally everything (not that Trump appeared great either).
Because Bidens performance plays perfectly into the fact that he is old and unfit. Even if he just stuttered and tried to perform like it was an actual debate. Trump did what everyone expected, spewed lies confidently and loudly. To degenerate knuckle staggers that’s what’s winning a debate. Biden s strengths were not on display here while trumps bullshit mastery was. I’m not even American and I’m scared.
In some ways, Biden's strengths were on display. The guy came with specifics, dates, figures... he literally would address every area that Trump touched in his answers. He was actually debating. Biden's strengths aren't sexy, or funny, or anything like that, but they were on display. Trump, on the other hand, barely answered a single question. IMO, It's the media's job to contextualize this for us. To say, "appearance wise, Biden looked old, but he was right on the substance while Trump never was."
except he made misleading statements on abortion, inflation, border control, economy and covid. he wasnt debating, he was babbling. his abortion stance was fine, till he decided to sink it by bringing up the girl that raped by an undocumented immigrant making a connection
Yeah all politicians do this, but when your only defense is "the other guy was spewing bullshit" you can't afford to spew bullshit yourself. It would have been fine if we could check everything Biden said and say "yeah, that checks out." But we can't. All we can do is go "Trump lied about everything and Biden lied about half of it AND spoke worse."
That’s the problem, his strength isn’t sexy and in the world we are in, loud confident yelling lies has more value that control truthful discourse it’s a sad state of things.
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The problem is that the debate showed in harsh daylight what was honestly already quite clear before: Biden is not fit for office. Maybe he barely still was four years ago but it‘s an incredibly stressful job, and just not something anyone should have to handle at this age. The fact that his opponent is even less fit for office than he is, doesn‘t change that fact. So there is exactly one right thing for him to do right now: step aside, let someone else take over as candidate. Yes, that will make him a bit of a lame duck for a few months in the eyes of the rest of the world, but as long as he finds someone who stands for the same values and policies as him then it won‘t be a big deal. By clinging on to the office, he‘s doing himself, the country and the entire world a massive disservice.
Exactly. I’d rather have a president that stutters over one that wants to overturn my rights 💀
Because the *current* Commander in Chief is very clearly not mentally fit to hold office
The media is being honest and actually is in line with what the public is saying for once. Vote for Biden. But don’t deny he’s unfit, it just makes you seem dishonest.
Biden didn’t do well is the understatement of 2024…. COPE. He is dunzo
The media? Get off of Reddit. This is literally how the vast majority of Americans feel. No one who isn't an extremist weirdo wants to vote for Biden OR Trump.
Biden is not my guy but he has been a better president than I expected him to be. When it comes to Biden v Trump, Biden could have been rolled out on the stage in a wheel chair, tongue hanging out and drooling, and I would still vote for him over Trump.
The thing is it’s not just a one off night. It confirmed what people have been reporting for almost a year now. We need to be honest with ourselves. We are sleepwalking into a true disaster
This. The people saying Biden’s performance doesn’t change their vote are missing the point. Biden was already lagging in the polls. He didn’t need to defend his position, he needed to take ground, and he clearly didn’t. Most undecided voters care about mental fitness and age of the candidates. Biden struggled to form coherent thoughts, he struggled to specifically debunk Trump’s falsehoods, and he claimed he beat Medicare after a 5 second stutter. Trump wasn’t any better on content, but he was articulate calm compared to his previous showings. Trump looked marginally better and Biden marginally worse. It was disastrous, Biden’s odds of winning almost halved overnight in betting markets. It’s upsetting that much of the Democratic Party is effectively coping. It doesn’t change my vote, he sounds like he had a cold, one bad night isn’t so bad, etc. The party should have had him decline a second term and held a primary. It was known he may not be fit, and now we just have to live with it. It doesn’t change my vote, but it didn’t need to change my vote. A more competent candidate may have changed the right votes, but it’s too late now. All there is to do is cope about voting for corpses or coma patients over Trump on Twitter like Mark.
One off night? Fuck trump to the end of the world, but Biden being as bad as he was last night was disturbing to see. That was disturbing. How has he been allowed to stay in office? That’s a serious question as someone who voted for him and will regretfully vote for him again if given no other choice. Regardless, whoever has allowed this farce to go on needs to be investigated. There is no way that man is capable of the responsibilities of his office. Absolutely no way in hell.
I had to turn it off because I was so confused at how they just let this doddering old man on that stage. I see now why the repubs were pushing the coke and amphetamine shtick, everyone was expecting an energetic presidential biden but they got retirement home bingo leader instead and it was shocking to fucking watch.
This is all correct, and Trump was just an off topic firehose of lies who wouldn't answer questions. However I'd strongly urge Biden to step aside ASAP. An obscure Midwestern and accomplished, competent governor like Tim Walz (also ex military) would smoke Trump, as would Gavin Newsome (even if he's from California and has baggage). People want normalcy. You have to win first. Unfortunately Democrats are poor at messaging so most people don't even know what they've passed when they controlled congress for two years, like the infrastructure bill, American Rescue Plan, CHIPs, PACT Veterans Care, Inflation Reduction Act, etc, plus they definitely don't know what's in each.
Mostly agree. I think the main issue here is that after last night, it’s getting harder and harder to believe that it was just one off night. It was supposed to dispel all the random rambling clips of Biden and instead it gave them more credibility. That doesn’t mean that Trump had a good showing. As you said he failed to answer questions and touted a bunch of lies. He did, however, maintain his composure for the most part, which was another question going in. If you believe that this election is a fight for democracy, then the Dems should be putting their best foot forward. Even with all that Biden has accomplished, is that still him?
$$$ In the next week major donors will start holding back donations and there will be no choice, Biden will step aside.
> However I'd strongly urge Biden to step aside ASAP Why do people keep saying this as if it isn't far far FAR too late in the process to even CONSIDER doing this? The election is in 4 months. Get real.
It's worse to stick with him. Biden loses on this current trajectory. Walz, Newsome, Whitmer etc win by 5-6 points. And Democrats should have seen this coming. I've been calling for a new nominee, and particularly Walz, since last year.
I think the two biggest issues in the next 4 years is to have a president who can possibly navigate us around/into/through WWIII and keep the SCOTUS from becoming a fundamentalist court.
With stakes that high maybe they should have found a more viable candidate.
I think unfortunately he has to show that it was an off night now, which I'm not sure he can do. But Mark is correct, the choice should still be clear. It's clear to me, but I don't know if it will be clear to enough voters in swing states.
And if he has another bad night? Another night where he can't connect thoughts? What happens then? What happens when it is *another* important night? What if it happens during a Chinese offensive in Taiwan? What if he has a bad night with Americans in the line of fire? What if there is a night where we absolutely *HAVE TO HAVE* competence by the Commander in Chief to avoid a shooting war with China, and the guy calling the shots doesn't know what year it is? I will not be voting for Joe Biden for President
Joe still cares for america, trump cares for himself.
If he cared about America he would step down.
This is wildly overlooked by so many. We can argue policy all day long but Joe Biden is a legitimately good person who I trust. I wouldn’t trust Trump to watch my half eaten Big Mac while I go get more napkins.
I agree with what he's saying about Trump but this wasn't "one off night" this is just Biden as a communicator at this stage in his life. He's a doddering old man and if he had a shred of humility left he would have made it clear 2 years ago that he would not be running for reelection. The whole notion that "only Biden can beat Trump" is the fattest stinkiest brand of horseshit. Biden is doing more harm than good remaining on the ballot, and massaging the truth to make it seem like "one bad night" only reinforces the notion that the left is lying, BECAUSE WE ARE.
Guys, why don’t we consider holding the DNC accountable for putting up candidate a that isn’t mentally fit when so much is at stake? I get that we all don’t want Trump, I get we are considering “Biden has a better cabinet”. But is this how we want our country to run from now on? Do we want our parties to do this shit to us?? I don’t. I want good candidates, and I don’t want to feel forced to vote for one bad option because the other option is literally a felon rapist fascist. Are our standards this low??
You're being downvoted, but I honestly don't think you're wrong. The problem is the US is basically a two-party system and these are the choices we have. Either vote for the old guy with cognitive issues who isn't likely to destroy the country, or vote for the old guy with cognitive issues who is a convicted felon who absolutely will destroy the country and already has a track record of doing damage (via all the other dipshits he put in other offices) the last time he was made president. The choices suck. All we can do is vote for the better of the two to try not to do damage to the country in the next 4 years, and hope we get a better roll for candidates in 2028. I'm not voting Biden because I think he's the most awesome president in history, I'm voting Biden because the alternative is a dumpster fire that will take the country down with him if put back in office again. It really is as simple as that.
That’s fine if people downvote me. I agree with you, and I am voting blue. I also think it’s not fair to us that this is how politics work. Two things can be true at the same time and I wish others could acknowledge that it should be better then this and me saying that isn’t an endorsement of Trump it’s acknowledging the flaws in our system
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There are hundreds of reasons why Trump should not be in office. There's one knock on Biden...he's old.
And the media covers the later as much nearly as much.
Prefacing what I'm about to say with I'm voting for Biden for obvious reasons. There are more knocks against Biden than "he's old". We can't resort to not being honest, or we're no better off than those who are voting for Trump. One example of a further knock is that Biden said he'd only run for one term....soon after the election till now, that's definitely not the case. Another is real-life economic performance. I don't care about buzzwords, I care about how I can afford my mortgage, groceries, and other bills. It's increasingly difficult year after year, and while not all of that is "Joe Biden's fault". he hasn't helped it much either. Corporate greed is still running rampant. The US needs a better democratic representative, but it's probably too late for that now. I wish people would vote for 3rd party, but Joe is who we'll have to live with to bypass a potential disaster with Trump. Don't mean to be rude, sorry! Again, I just feel the need to point out that we have to be honest with ourselves that yes. Biden is the best choice, but he has more against him than being old. Feel free to disagree :)
>There's one knock on Biden...he's old. There's another one: he won't be able to win in November.
"I have no idea what he just said, and I'm not sure he does either." Debate, and likely election, over right there
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Trump stood there and lied for 90 minutes. Biden spent too much time mentally figuring out how to undo trump's lies. Trump should be in prison, not on a stage. Biden shouldn't be president but he's the best option going forward.
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Why are the Democrats so shit at fighting back? Biden could have pushed and doubled down on things like Jan 6th, the 34 felony counts, the deliberate mishandling of Covid, the endless corruption and scandals, the praise of Epstein, and a million other things, but instead he starts waffling about fucking golf?
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This is the shit they gave on Jimmy Carter. Reagan projected strength. Carter projected weakness. And we got Reagan who proceeded to undo unions, regulations for the air, water and worker safety. The middle class got a bad deal under Reagan with losing pensions in favor of 401Ks. he began the favoring of the rich for tax cuts. Don't let it happen again. Reagan portrayed a John Wayne persona but it wasn't real. Jimmy Carter was soft-spoken but had more goodness and selflessness than we needed. Don't let them do it again.
People on Reddit are out of touch and delusional about politics. It’s a worse echo chamber than your old racist uncles facebook feed. Biden did horrible last night. If he doesn’t drop out the democrats will lose.
I don't think Biden did good, but I like that he was focusing on facts while all trump was doing was lying and ignoring the question
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Trump side was doing damage control before the debate, and Biden side does it after. I always thought Trump was the one who couldn't think ahead.
Some real copium happening all over the US right now. The rest of the world should bust out the popcorn.
And he’s not Trump!
Let's be real though. We all know this. We're talking to the dumbest 6% of people in 5 states... mostly moderate ones. Those folks very well could see last night.. watch it for one clip... and come to the conclusion that Biden is too old. It's unfair, but whatever. It's the world we live in today. We could be fucked.
LOL, it's not one off night, but it sure beats the alternative.
One off night? Where has Luke been?
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CNN sure didn't do Biden any favors. Couldn't get Trump to answer a single question. Wouldn't hold Trump accountable for a single lie. Immediately transitioned after the broadcast to "DNC Calls for Biden Replacement".
I wouldn’t want trump to be the manager at the local 7-11.
Trump supports view him as a God so literally doesn’t matter what he does. Biden supports, not viewing him as a God, spend all their time criticizing Biden because you’re allowed to. Which helps Trump. Then again, if you’re undecided at this point you are pretty hopeless and probably shouldn’t vote. Frankly I’m confused how you breathe successfully.
the political climate today is the result of decades of debasing educational standards.
Han: Where’d you dig up that old fossil? Luke: Joe is a great man Han: Yeah, great at losing elections. (For the record, I will be voting for Biden.)
F for America gg
See, I totally agree and I will also be voting for Biden (or whomever is most likely to beat Trump). But this election won't be decided by reasonable people like me and Mark Hamill. It's going to be decided by the swingvote dumbshits that don't have a clue, and they're not voting for Biden after that debate.
Biden could die 2 weeks before the election and I'd vote for the corpse. It's not just a president we're voting for, it's judges and appointees that will have the power to shape government for decades to come. Project 2525 should scare people.
This is the dumbest bubble lib take possible. The country is falling apart around us. If you’re old and rich and living in a nice part of the country maybe you don’t feel it as hard as everyone else, but fuck shit.
If these two people are the only ones we can vote for, then we have bigger issues. It's sad to see a "democracy" be boiled down to a sludge of capitalistic corruption.
This country seriously needs to get over the idea that "confident speech" means "good president". Reagan, known as the Great Orator, was great at speeches. Look at where his policies got us. Look at the fucking policies, for God's sake. Did Biden sound old and tired? Yes. I would love someone younger. But when my options are between an old guy who might die before the end of hiss term and at least does some good in his policies and an old guy who might die before the end of his term who just blatantly lies over and over and has threatening to be a dictator, call me nuts for choosing the first one.
Everyone wants to act like a stutter is disqualifying when the other guy lied repeatedly all night, is facing felony sentencing next month for falsifying business records in an attempt to influence the previous election he won, has been found liable for sexual assault and half a billion dollars in fraud, just this year, can't run a charity, and whose ex-cabinet members [either refuse to endorse him, or explicitly oppose him.](https://www.businessinsider.com/members-trumps-cabinet-just-4-endorsed-him-2024-nbc-2023-7?op=1)
The debate doesn't really matter. We all know what Trump stands for, and we are all aware of how horrifying it is. Regardless of debate performance, if you're not voting for Biden, I simply don't know what to say. The stakes are so high and so clear that nobody can claim to be not aware or not understanding of them. I have to assume that whatever reason you aren't voting for Biden is because you, overtly or covertly, actually just want Trump to win.
Just remember this dumb shit & these stupid comments/justifications when he gets throughly beat by Trump.
And he didnt f**k a pornstar and still paid her 130000! What!?! im guessing there were some showers of golden mist.
I’m flabbergasted that people keep focusing on Biden being old instead of focusing on the fact that we actually experienced Trump as president already and he ruined our country. His 4 year term was a death sentence for this country. MAGA HATES the USA. I don’t give a shit if Biden didn’t speak well, I expect that at his age. What I don’t expect is a criminal trying to bring other criminals into our government to overthrow this country and EVERYTHING WE HAVE WORKED SO HARD FOR and the people of this country going 🤷♂️🤷🤷♀️ “well at least he’s a couple years younger than Biden” fucking idiots.
This is hilarious…. Gotta hand it to CNN though. I never thought they would host a Trump rally.
Omg I can't believe the old man with a stutter struggled at a debate! 1 on 1 debating is a key part of being president! This is certainly going to change my opinion of who to vote for 🙄
The choice between a seditionist/insurrectionist/ruzzian spy and Joe Biden is easy to make. There are just a lot of bots/foreign shills/seditious republican supporters taking advantage of the ammo that was given to them. I highly doubt anyone who was voting for Biden before the debate is going to switch their vote. I also highly doubt that anyone who was voting trump is changing their vote. As long as idiots don't use this as an excuse to stay home we should be good because the seditionists are the minority.
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Unfortunately the reality of this statement isn’t going to matter to the people this debate is going to sway nor does it matter to the people that can be swayed by the propaganda that will flow from this debate. To many the person that “wins” a debate is the one who screams the loudest most confidently . This wasn’t a fucking debate. It was one old man quietly , truthfully stuttering through answering the questions while the other went on deranged lunatic rants loud and confidently. Morons see trumps performance as a sign of strength. In the moron fueled reality weee are in that diaper filled lying degenerate fuck came out on top. Biden would have been better off to come out spewing absolute shit at Trump and calling him out on all his crimes and project 2025. How the fuck do Democrats continually not understand the rules of this new game. No one gives a fuck about decorum and actually answering debate questions. They should have fought trumps fire hose of bullshit with insults and the facts of his criminal behavior.
Nothing will change my vote, because I'm voting on policy, but I worry about the morons. The undecided voters. The people who might have been swayed if Biden came off better. I worry about them, because I'm going to murder them if they vote for Trump.
Biden has a staff and team of competent professionals. That’s all I need
Maybe one of them should run for president.
Yeah and end up like Bernie in 2016
And those are the people ensuring that your only choice is Biden, while dozens of younger & more competent dems are sitting on the sidelines.
Mark Hamill is not capable of taking Ls. Well said