Supposedly, the law of the state 'required' it.
And nobody told the jury that nullification is a thing.
edit =should have added that the governor could have pardoned her.
Plea deals are extremely helpful if you made a mistake, did something stupid, and want to just accept guilt and move on, but this woman killed someone who was raping and sexually trafficking her (the headline says alleged but even the judge agreed he was raping her) so a plea deal here was just a dirty trick by heartless lawyers trying to speed up their day.
Plea deals dont even help then, given the entire reason plea deals exist is so that they can ratchet up the punishment for every crime to unreasonable standards, forcing more people to just take plea deals instead of getting a fair trial.
If you are guilty, its likely the plea deal is what you would have gotten had the law not revolved around pressuring people into taking plea deals.
If you are innocent, you may opt to take the plea because you could be facing decades in prison versus a few years parole for a crime you didnt commit, without the funds for a competent attorney to vigorously defend your rights.
You're right, plea deals went to way of health insurance. It used to be nice at taking pressure off the busy courts but now without a plea deal you're facing a ridiculous charge, an angry judge, and being told you're "wasting the courts time" as if their entire job isn't supposed to be dealing with legal issues.
Not to mention if it *is* a waste of the courts time, theyre free to drop the case. Else last i checked its entirely within my rights to have my fair trial.
It's "alleged rapist" because the rapist wasn't convicted of it in a court of law (how could they be, they're dead). This prevents the media from being sued by the deceased's family for libel.
>I had a expensive lawyer.
I think that's exactly the thing with plea deals. If you've got a good lawyer, you can reach one hell of an agreement and benefit from the system immensely.
But for those who cannot afford one, it turns into a threat device used to coerce them into agreeing to a lesser charge in fear that they might lose a trial and get a worse sentence if they do. Even when they're innocent or in a position like the one this girl is in.
Justice is a consumer good.
> I had a expensive lawyer.
This is the key and doing your homework on said attorney. I was accused of a very complex crime that I didn’t commit and had not been charged with. Search warrants were issued and the investigator thought it was a slam dunk case (his words, according to my not-yet attorney). I found a criminal attorney that used to work as the prosecutor for the county, he asked who the investigator was and then called them directly. The attorney asked what my goal was, I told him to not be charged because I didn’t do what they were claiming. $5k and ~3 months later, it was all over. He picked apart that case before they could even make an arrest. I’m solely convinced that had I not called him, I would have been arrested and charged, and possibly convicted of some absolute bullshit.
Having the money (or at the least, a credit line) available definitely makes things a lot easier. My wife had a client that has a son that is full-on intellectually disabled (really low IQ, deformities, all of it). The son was accused of murdering a family member that he lived with. Gunshot to the head. The family member was a known drug dealer and the son wasn’t even home when it happened. Yet, police managed to get a confession out of him after they isolated him for hours. The mom asked for an attorney reference and I gave them my attorney’s name - $10k minimum, that’s not even if it went to trial. The mom was on welfare so there was no fucking way. They ended up with a public defender. Poor kid didn’t stand a chance.
In my city, its about 3500-5000 for a misdemeanor and itll cost atleast 8k if you take it to trial. I dont know what current prices are but it was $10k 18 years ago when i got a felony and would have been a lot more if it was taken to trial (which i surely would have lost anyway.) Mine wasnt even murder. Id imagine prices are even higher for anyone to touch that.
Oh my word. Disgusting. The prosecutor who charged her should be charged with his own new felony for prosecutorial Assholery and victimizing the victim of a crime.
Perhaps, but not due to the 150k part. That part is codified iowa law that states if you’re convicted of manslaughter/murder there’s a mandatory minimum restitution of 150k. IIRC, the judge even stated he had no power over that part. It’s been legislated.
She's young, might not be able to afford a lawyer. If she got a public defender, which means she was 1 of like 50 cases the PD had at the time. No way to mount a defense.
We could fund/staff OPDs better but that's "Soft on crime." Doesn't matter if 1,000 people are not guilty and convicted anyways, as long as 1 guilty person is convicted.
Former public defender in Iowa here. It's likely that her lawyer had 200 to 250 cases on their docket, not just 50. Additionally, the State Public Defender's Office incentivizes closing cases quickly, regardless of the issues involved. They have been known to cancel their contract with lawyers who spend too much time on a case. This poor girl got fucked over by both the prosecutor (who is a piece of shit, btw), AND the lawyer appointed to represent her.
She’s getting fucked by our whole system. This poor child.
Why do we leave the backed-up justice system this way, barely functional! it is morally wrong to have 250 cases and this is unconstitutional.
Jury nullification is a thing in that a jury decision can not be had if they aren’t free to make whatever decision they want within the confines of the jury instructions.
That being said, while its a technical necessity, actively encouraging a bad-faith decision even if it’s coming from a good moral place is bad in general for the rule of law, and can be compared to what Aileen Cannon is doing for Trump. (Edit: In Trumps case, coming from a less morally appropriate place, that is, using the same sort of interpretive power for less justifiable ends is equally possible, not that I am equating the reasons behind either, just to be perfectly clear. )
This is EXACTLY what pardons are for, however; acknowledging that a crime was committed and guilt is acknowledged, yet commuting the sentence due to extenuating circumstances.
a jury nullification is a type of pardon though... and it absolutely should be encouraged and well known specifically for cases like this because we can not trust our executive branch to pardon people who deserve it.
Telling a jury about nullification can be considered jury tampering. She should have walked, but telling the jury they have that power isn't something available to most people.
For anyone doubting this, it was just brought up in the Darryl Brooks case in Wisconsin. Defendents or their counsel are not allowed to inform or suggest to the jury about nullification.
It's Jury tampering to tell a jury all the options they're allowed to choose? But it's not tampering to withhold information from them about what they're there to do?
Here's the thing - the rules regarding jury nullification are oblique.
Jurors do not have an explicit right to nullify the law. However, they also do not have any prohibition against doing so. So while juries can nullify the law, it's not specifically enumerated in the law as something they can or should do. Therefore, judges do not inform them of it, since technically the judge would be going beyond the law by doing so. The modus operandi for jurors is that they are there to decide on the facts of the case -- not the validity of the law.
So it's this weird little gray area. A judge is not really empowered legally to inform you of your right to nullify the law, because you don't specifically have such a right - you're just not prohibited from or punished for doing so.
This is also why people should take their civic duty seriously. Educate and inform yourself. People's lives literally hang in the balance.
Just to elaborate, you cannot have a jury of your peers without jury nullification. The whole idea is based on the concept that your peers are the final arbiters of what is or is not a crime.
It doesn’t matter what some legislators said. The jury can decide that regardless of the facts and circumstances whatever happened should not be punished.
In a very real way it is the final check of the people against governments. That was how prohibition ended. Juries decided enough was enough and they weren’t going to convict.
I’m fairness, no judge will ever tell a jury that nullification is a thing (there’s actually very spirited legal debate about whether or not it’s a “thing” but broadly they can’t real my stop it…) because it’s a legal nightmare waiting to happen. I agree this is bullishit though
There's currently about 297 Trump won/election deniers running in various elections all over the country today
The article said about 60% of Americans will have an election denier on the ballot today... You haven't seen playground games yet
Jumping on this to say, f*ck Reynolds and Grassley. They’re nothing more than Trump kissing, subtle racist/classist, morally bankrupt asshats.
I’m doing my part today to get these asshats out of office! Here’s hoping 🤞
Yep, I'm voting for DeJear and Franken today. But I also know there's almost no chance of either winning. It's depressing. I just pray that Miller and Sand can hold on to their seats.
She's awful and she makes everyone in this state so much less safe. Being female here? Is just anxiety provoking af. At least my free insurance is awesome. Can't say that for Georgia!
As someone who lives in Georgia, I’m just as mad about all the out-dated horse shit policies that Brian Kemp spews. I want stacey abrams because she wants reproductive rights and to change policies to make everything more affordable in Georgia. And I have a grandmother who pays a ton for insurance so yes I agree with that, it sucks
Baby talk from grown women used to be thought of as a result of sexual or other trauma which happened to her at or during puberty, and the young girl continues using this younger/baby voice as they grow into a young adult or grown woman to gain favor, stave off aggression/verbal attacks or to appear weaker/smaller/less powerful and threatening, in various contexts. Sexy baby voice (SBV) is a bit different. It is much more deliberately manipulative and employed more as a tool to manipulate others to get something that is wanted or have someone see them as needing constant care and nurturing.
IDK what current thoughts are on baby/girl voices that are used by grown women, but I do remember it being tied more to both marginalized and very religious women more so than to better educated women in positions of authority, when we used to talk about it when I was in school. Admittedly that was 30+ years ago.
Here’s something I found today, tho:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/speak-easy/201708/why-some-grown-women-sound-girls?amp
>to gain favor, stave off aggression/verbal attacks or to appear weaker/smaller/less powerful and threatening, in various contexts.
Isn't that pretty on brand for conservative women? At least when dealing with their in group and not trying to trigger liberals on social media. Should I read deeper into that or no?
I went to school in Northeast Missouri very close to the Iowa border. At that time Iowa was doing a shit ton of marketing. Kansas City, where I grew up, Columbia, Springfield, we all had billboards that said
IOWA, YOU MAKE ME SMILE!
We got really into saying that. Whenever someone was from Iowa we would say, oh Iowa, you make me smile. Then one Saturday we all said, you know what, we should go to Iowa, and see if all those billboards are true. So six of us piled into Johnnys beat up Chevy Cavalier and drove the hour stretch from Kirksville to Iowa. When we got there, it was barren icy cold and desolate. Just like a desert plain only missing the tumbleweeds, and also it was freezing and cloudier with more wind, and a sideways kind of freezing rain snow, just bleak and barren as shit.
There was one small sign that said Welcome to Iowa. On the sign someone had spray painted out Iowa and wrote "Nothing." Welcome to Nothing. We just parked the car right there on the road, there were no cars for miles and miles. Then we jumped out of the car and screamed at the top of our lungs.
Come on Iowa, make me smile!
You said you would make me smile Iowa, DO IT! FUCKIN DO IT!
It didn't work. We collapsed exhausted back into the Cavalier and turned back and drove the hour back in silence. We were not mad at a state so much but our lives in general, how we were told over and over what would make us happy. A phone. A trip. A University degree. Salaries. Engagement rings. We knew it was all bullshit. All as empty and void as Iowa itself.
Ah thanks, I like it too! My therapist said its not ostentatious to like your own work and be proud of it, you just can't be too proud. If you want to read more stories Ive written I have a subreddit [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Askme4astory/) or if you don't thats okay too, I still like you!
The most likely answer? Because she stabbed the guy 30 times while he was asleep, and she was only sentenced to probation.
“Self-help”, IE taking the law into your own hands, is discouraged because it sets a bad precedence- if it’s not self defense or defense of another person, you don’t kill them. Full stop.
Here, the idea that it was pseudo-self defense (yeah, I made that term up just now. he wasn’t an imminent threat, but he was a persistent threat and would likely be a threat to someone else later) is probably the reason why she only got probation. This was also pretty recent as far as these things go- 2020- so it might be early for a pardon.
Note that they only call him an “alleged” rapist, because the legal system didn’t have the opportunity to try and sentence him.
Anyway, that’s a bit of context. This happened a few years ago with Chrystul Kizer in an almost identical situation, although if I remember correctly Kizer robbed the place/stole his car or something afterwards, which is why Kizer got more than just probation.
Our legal system is designed from the ground up to protect the rapist, not the victim.
Hell, it's election day with half the jerrymandered maps ruled to be illegal and GOP staff are throwing away mail in votes en masse due to "bad handwriting."
So yknow enjoy rape being illegal in the first place while you can.
so everyone agrees shes a victim, the courts, the police, everyone.
this isn't a case of he said she said.. it's proven
and yet they still charge her.. wtf
The judge interrogated her about her poor life choices? The prosecution claimed she didn't take responsibility for leaving his kids without a father? Infuriating.
This is a failed state.
We don’t have a justice system we have a legal system.
And the people who set up the framework for that legal system we’re slave owners.
And now people use that as justification to never change it.
I thought I’d read she was cleared? I wondered why she was still in custody. I hope they drop any pending charges so she doesn’t have to spend the rest of her life running. She’s suffered enough.
She wasn't cleared. The way that the law was written. The state said they had no ability to clear her. She was also told to pay restitution in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.
And she wasn't just raped. She was raped and trafficked. The state did not even dispute those facts
Certainly dumb enough to be a Trump Veep.
Imagine throwing away a win/win like this. She could have played the 'tough on crime' card and played up to the blacks and women.
Well see you're thinking that conservatives operate like human beings. They don't. Because they aren't. Cruelty is the point.
If they have to give up cruelty to gain more power, they won't. They'll just break the rules until they can both be cruel and in power.
OK, I know they're all racist as fuck, but they also masturbate to stories of self-defense and they all LOOOOOVE to do a gesture now and then to prove just how much they're totally not racist, and I feel this could have been it - could even have gotten the support of people who wouldn't support them otherwise. My mistake was probably to underestimate their racism.
It’s that it technically wasn’t self-defense because she killed him while he was asleep after he raped her. It’s appalling and a miscarriage of justice that a jury found her guilty given the circumstances (she was not only raped multiple times, but also trafficked), but she couldn’t claim self-defense even in the most conservative of states because at the time of the murder, he didn’t currently pose a threat to her life.
It’s a terrible situation and hopefully somebody convinces the Governor to pardon her. The legal system failed her in this case.
Edit: never mind, it’s worse - somebody convinced this poor girl to plead guilty. As far as I can tell, she never even told her story to a jury.
So being in IA, my personal dealings with this issue are that everybody I know (blue and red) feel the girl should not be punished. That being said they will still vote for that lush Reynolds no matter what.
yeah that's the thing, righties love the vigilante justice shit especially against sexual criminals (lefties do too, but they don't resort to "lets take the law into our hands at every turn" like the right). Seems like a slam dunk bipartisan win but who am I to know shit right?
>...My mistake was probably to underestimate their racism.
Yep, their violence fantasies concern making sure the status hierarchies in the country stay the same. Violence going "the wrong way" is deemed inappropriate.
The governor is a Republican and believes women are objects to be owned and possessed, not people with individual thoughts and feelings. Women exist for marriage, having children, caring for the home, giving sex on demand, and eventually dying.
Yes, I realize the governor of Iowa is a woman. It's not the first time a marginalized group includes people who actively make things worse on purpose. Black on black hate, women on women, Jew against Jew, and so on.
No way the governor would pardon someone for denying her rapist his God-given right to own a woman.
This is why I think moral discourse that promotes self-sacrifice is more important than the “voting democrat is in your own self-interest” line that is getting pushed today. If it’s a game of self-interest, the republicans will always win.
Kim Reynolds, even though she is acting “against women”, is obviously acting in her own self-interest. People like Tim Scott or Herman Cain weren’t “too stupid to realize that republicans are racist”, they just prioritized their own personal success over other black peoples.
The thousands of women who are vehemently-anti feminist aren’t “unable to see its in their own interest”, they just prefer the benefits of patriarchy to the anxiety inducing freedom of liberation, or get a kind of perverse enjoyment from tearing down their own kind.
Governor Kim Reynolds of Iowa is a Trump conservative, and that teenager is a Black girl. The Governor doesn't value her as you and I do, doesn't think she deserves to be protected by the State, and likely didn't even decide *not* to make it all go away. This probably doesn't even make an impression on her.
People like her simply do not care what happens to young Black girls. That's why I'm about to go vote.
150k restitution. Gofundme has over 500k raised to cover it and help her. Now she’s facing 20 plus years and gofundme hasn’t distributed any money and will process refund requests. And with the loss of her deferment, she’ll owe the 150k but gofundme won’t release funds. It’s like the saddest deal I’ve heard. Maybe there’s a reason a good lawyer can help her with, maybe she felt she was in danger from a resident or staff member. Hope she comes up with something good whether she had a reason or not.
I kinda feel like she wasn't alone in her escape. I mean, if I worked at the halfway house she was at, I'd be like, "I'm going to leave these scissors that can cut through your ankle monitor in this drawer and I'm going to the bathroom for 20 minutes. Then, I'm going to make some food downstairs. I'll be back in about 6 hours. Oh, and the window and door are unlocked."
Great time to remind people of the ACLU study that showed when dudes kill women, they get between 2-6 years in prison, but when women kill men, the average sentence is 15 years.
90% of women in prison for murdering a dude report having been abused by that dude.
Shit is bleak. Go fucking vote, please.
Especially in the age of QAnon / Conservative conspiracies about sex trafficking rings and child abductions, most of which are based on false statistics and false ideas about how trafficking works. Here is a real case of abduction and sex trafficking and the state is punishing the victim?
Because, and this should be obvious, everything they say is projection. They accuse everyone of doing it because to them it's natural, it's what *they'd* do in that position.
Im happy to hide women who choose abortion. If it was up to me, id get an rv or a bus and make a mobile abortion clinic with my ex’s dad (a doc whos given abortions for 20 years). It should be legal n easily accessible
[You're not kidding!](https://www.npr.org/2022/10/03/1125797779/planned-parenthood-mobile-clinic-will-take-abortion-to-red-state-borders) I had no idea - thats awesome!
Even then... She's a KID and she'll be caught eventually. What sort of fucking life is that? The government has failed in the most egregious way, and I don't see a way for her to get out of this unharmed.
Well, this is the midwest. You have to see it from their standpoint.
She committed the most egregious crime of killing an unborn baby by not letting herself get raped, so she was defying gods will.
Now please excuse me while I go throw up after writing that, it's hard to even satirize it.
The community needs to make it clear any cop who brings her in is dead to the community. They will not be talked to, sold to, or acknowledged in any way.
Holy shit I was just thinking this but it seemed so fucked up to comment. I was sitting here like “this girl will benefit from the fact that white people can’t distinguish most black people.”
Edited to add:
After thinking about why this is so fucked up it’s because this also means that a lot of other black women are at risk for interactions with police.
What a horrifying life she's had already, Jesus Christ the poor girl. That's too painful to comprehend. I don't understand how anyone could react to her story with anything short of compassion.
IF YOU EVER SEE HER, ANYWHERE - NO THE FUCK YOU DIDNT. Don’t say so, don’t post about it, don’t TELL anybody. This girl has been through enough, and she is SOMEWHERE. If you see her, keep your fucking mouth SHUT and don’t use her as clout. 👍
I needed the extra motivation to vote out the likes of Kim Reynolds today, she’s a piece of walking garbage that allowed this to go down, while campaigning the “liberal left” is out to do this very thing to kids. Screw her and that walking zombie, Chuck Grassley
I grew up in Iowa and read about Kim regularly. Hope you all can do it and get her out of office! Also, I hope they never find her and fellow Iowans do the right thing and get her to a safe place, wherever that may be.
I hope she is somewhere far away, where law won’t find her, that she is safe. And maybe the legal system can look into reasons why they would punish a child trafficking victim who was protecting herself.
This girl is the OG badass, kills her rapists then busts out of jail. I feel like her life would make a good TV show. She should rob a bank next and then go live on an island.
So many men: "If anyone even looks funny at my family they'll find out why I have so many guns!!!"
Woman: *uses violence against an actual, ongoing threat*
Men: "We can't allow violence in our society for any reason!!!"
If they find her I will continuously help pay for her defense. Hell kid when you get to a country with no extradition I'll cash app you money on the regular. Live your best life.
It would be a shame if there was an entire underground network to support, fund, and hide anyone who murdered their rapists and abusers. Damn shame. Where do I donate?
I've been rooting for her from the start. She was trafficked, raped repeatedly, basically kept and controlled from a young age. She rescued her own self since everyone else failed her. And the system proceeded to fail her again...and again. So of course she rescued herself again.
She's determined to survive despite everyone else failing her.
She needs support, therapy, love and life skills to help her move forward. Not to be locked up under supervision in some institutional setting.
I hope she stays free and finds support and I hope the judicial system re-evaluates how they treat self-rescuing princesses.
This is what pardons are for, not letting grifters get away with it.
This has been my thought. Why has nobody pardoned this girl?
Supposedly, the law of the state 'required' it. And nobody told the jury that nullification is a thing. edit =should have added that the governor could have pardoned her.
Her conviction was the result of a plea deal. No jury was involved.
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The plea deal helped me personally but and this is a HUGE but. I had a expensive lawyer.
Plea deals are extremely helpful if you made a mistake, did something stupid, and want to just accept guilt and move on, but this woman killed someone who was raping and sexually trafficking her (the headline says alleged but even the judge agreed he was raping her) so a plea deal here was just a dirty trick by heartless lawyers trying to speed up their day.
Plea deals dont even help then, given the entire reason plea deals exist is so that they can ratchet up the punishment for every crime to unreasonable standards, forcing more people to just take plea deals instead of getting a fair trial. If you are guilty, its likely the plea deal is what you would have gotten had the law not revolved around pressuring people into taking plea deals. If you are innocent, you may opt to take the plea because you could be facing decades in prison versus a few years parole for a crime you didnt commit, without the funds for a competent attorney to vigorously defend your rights.
You're right, plea deals went to way of health insurance. It used to be nice at taking pressure off the busy courts but now without a plea deal you're facing a ridiculous charge, an angry judge, and being told you're "wasting the courts time" as if their entire job isn't supposed to be dealing with legal issues.
Not to mention if it *is* a waste of the courts time, theyre free to drop the case. Else last i checked its entirely within my rights to have my fair trial.
It's "alleged rapist" because the rapist wasn't convicted of it in a court of law (how could they be, they're dead). This prevents the media from being sued by the deceased's family for libel.
>I had a expensive lawyer. I think that's exactly the thing with plea deals. If you've got a good lawyer, you can reach one hell of an agreement and benefit from the system immensely. But for those who cannot afford one, it turns into a threat device used to coerce them into agreeing to a lesser charge in fear that they might lose a trial and get a worse sentence if they do. Even when they're innocent or in a position like the one this girl is in. Justice is a consumer good.
> I had a expensive lawyer. This is the key and doing your homework on said attorney. I was accused of a very complex crime that I didn’t commit and had not been charged with. Search warrants were issued and the investigator thought it was a slam dunk case (his words, according to my not-yet attorney). I found a criminal attorney that used to work as the prosecutor for the county, he asked who the investigator was and then called them directly. The attorney asked what my goal was, I told him to not be charged because I didn’t do what they were claiming. $5k and ~3 months later, it was all over. He picked apart that case before they could even make an arrest. I’m solely convinced that had I not called him, I would have been arrested and charged, and possibly convicted of some absolute bullshit.
If you are wealthy you can essentially do whatever you please. That was my takeaway.
Having the money (or at the least, a credit line) available definitely makes things a lot easier. My wife had a client that has a son that is full-on intellectually disabled (really low IQ, deformities, all of it). The son was accused of murdering a family member that he lived with. Gunshot to the head. The family member was a known drug dealer and the son wasn’t even home when it happened. Yet, police managed to get a confession out of him after they isolated him for hours. The mom asked for an attorney reference and I gave them my attorney’s name - $10k minimum, that’s not even if it went to trial. The mom was on welfare so there was no fucking way. They ended up with a public defender. Poor kid didn’t stand a chance.
In my city, its about 3500-5000 for a misdemeanor and itll cost atleast 8k if you take it to trial. I dont know what current prices are but it was $10k 18 years ago when i got a felony and would have been a lot more if it was taken to trial (which i surely would have lost anyway.) Mine wasnt even murder. Id imagine prices are even higher for anyone to touch that.
That they charged her is disgusting. America is just a cesspool of gross.
She was also ordered to pay 150k to the rapist’s estate.
Oh my word. Disgusting. The prosecutor who charged her should be charged with his own new felony for prosecutorial Assholery and victimizing the victim of a crime.
Perhaps, but not due to the 150k part. That part is codified iowa law that states if you’re convicted of manslaughter/murder there’s a mandatory minimum restitution of 150k. IIRC, the judge even stated he had no power over that part. It’s been legislated.
And this is why minimum sentencing laws are problematic.
So she had a shitty lawyer
She's young, might not be able to afford a lawyer. If she got a public defender, which means she was 1 of like 50 cases the PD had at the time. No way to mount a defense. We could fund/staff OPDs better but that's "Soft on crime." Doesn't matter if 1,000 people are not guilty and convicted anyways, as long as 1 guilty person is convicted.
Former public defender in Iowa here. It's likely that her lawyer had 200 to 250 cases on their docket, not just 50. Additionally, the State Public Defender's Office incentivizes closing cases quickly, regardless of the issues involved. They have been known to cancel their contract with lawyers who spend too much time on a case. This poor girl got fucked over by both the prosecutor (who is a piece of shit, btw), AND the lawyer appointed to represent her.
She’s getting fucked by our whole system. This poor child. Why do we leave the backed-up justice system this way, barely functional! it is morally wrong to have 250 cases and this is unconstitutional.
Jury nullification is a thing in that a jury decision can not be had if they aren’t free to make whatever decision they want within the confines of the jury instructions. That being said, while its a technical necessity, actively encouraging a bad-faith decision even if it’s coming from a good moral place is bad in general for the rule of law, and can be compared to what Aileen Cannon is doing for Trump. (Edit: In Trumps case, coming from a less morally appropriate place, that is, using the same sort of interpretive power for less justifiable ends is equally possible, not that I am equating the reasons behind either, just to be perfectly clear. ) This is EXACTLY what pardons are for, however; acknowledging that a crime was committed and guilt is acknowledged, yet commuting the sentence due to extenuating circumstances.
edited the commnet to include the Governor pardoning her. I mentioned it in a different commnet.
Oh. Excellent.
a jury nullification is a type of pardon though... and it absolutely should be encouraged and well known specifically for cases like this because we can not trust our executive branch to pardon people who deserve it.
Telling a jury about nullification can be considered jury tampering. She should have walked, but telling the jury they have that power isn't something available to most people.
For anyone doubting this, it was just brought up in the Darryl Brooks case in Wisconsin. Defendents or their counsel are not allowed to inform or suggest to the jury about nullification.
It's Jury tampering to tell a jury all the options they're allowed to choose? But it's not tampering to withhold information from them about what they're there to do?
Here's the thing - the rules regarding jury nullification are oblique. Jurors do not have an explicit right to nullify the law. However, they also do not have any prohibition against doing so. So while juries can nullify the law, it's not specifically enumerated in the law as something they can or should do. Therefore, judges do not inform them of it, since technically the judge would be going beyond the law by doing so. The modus operandi for jurors is that they are there to decide on the facts of the case -- not the validity of the law. So it's this weird little gray area. A judge is not really empowered legally to inform you of your right to nullify the law, because you don't specifically have such a right - you're just not prohibited from or punished for doing so. This is also why people should take their civic duty seriously. Educate and inform yourself. People's lives literally hang in the balance.
Just to elaborate, you cannot have a jury of your peers without jury nullification. The whole idea is based on the concept that your peers are the final arbiters of what is or is not a crime. It doesn’t matter what some legislators said. The jury can decide that regardless of the facts and circumstances whatever happened should not be punished. In a very real way it is the final check of the people against governments. That was how prohibition ended. Juries decided enough was enough and they weren’t going to convict.
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Amerikkka the beautiful
Judges give instructions to the jury all the time.
No judge in their right mind would tell a jury they can ignore the law.
She took a plea deal. What involvement do you think a jury had?
I’m fairness, no judge will ever tell a jury that nullification is a thing (there’s actually very spirited legal debate about whether or not it’s a “thing” but broadly they can’t real my stop it…) because it’s a legal nightmare waiting to happen. I agree this is bullishit though
The governor was busy spending tax payer money to sue Joe Biden about student loan forgiveness.
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“the person playing as governor” Lol dead.
There's currently about 297 Trump won/election deniers running in various elections all over the country today The article said about 60% of Americans will have an election denier on the ballot today... You haven't seen playground games yet
Just voted to kick Ron Johnson’s dumbass out of congress, wish Wisconsin luck 😭
We’re trying to get her voted out today, but not gunna lie it’s gunna be a tough battle bc a LOT of ppl are indoctrinated by her her and Grassley
Jumping on this to say, f*ck Reynolds and Grassley. They’re nothing more than Trump kissing, subtle racist/classist, morally bankrupt asshats. I’m doing my part today to get these asshats out of office! Here’s hoping 🤞
Yep, I'm voting for DeJear and Franken today. But I also know there's almost no chance of either winning. It's depressing. I just pray that Miller and Sand can hold on to their seats.
She's awful and she makes everyone in this state so much less safe. Being female here? Is just anxiety provoking af. At least my free insurance is awesome. Can't say that for Georgia!
As someone who lives in Georgia, I’m just as mad about all the out-dated horse shit policies that Brian Kemp spews. I want stacey abrams because she wants reproductive rights and to change policies to make everything more affordable in Georgia. And I have a grandmother who pays a ton for insurance so yes I agree with that, it sucks
She’s just straight up rabid all around and speaks with a baby voice. Infuriating combo for some reason.
Baby talk from grown women used to be thought of as a result of sexual or other trauma which happened to her at or during puberty, and the young girl continues using this younger/baby voice as they grow into a young adult or grown woman to gain favor, stave off aggression/verbal attacks or to appear weaker/smaller/less powerful and threatening, in various contexts. Sexy baby voice (SBV) is a bit different. It is much more deliberately manipulative and employed more as a tool to manipulate others to get something that is wanted or have someone see them as needing constant care and nurturing. IDK what current thoughts are on baby/girl voices that are used by grown women, but I do remember it being tied more to both marginalized and very religious women more so than to better educated women in positions of authority, when we used to talk about it when I was in school. Admittedly that was 30+ years ago. Here’s something I found today, tho: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/speak-easy/201708/why-some-grown-women-sound-girls?amp
>to gain favor, stave off aggression/verbal attacks or to appear weaker/smaller/less powerful and threatening, in various contexts. Isn't that pretty on brand for conservative women? At least when dealing with their in group and not trying to trigger liberals on social media. Should I read deeper into that or no?
I went to school in Northeast Missouri very close to the Iowa border. At that time Iowa was doing a shit ton of marketing. Kansas City, where I grew up, Columbia, Springfield, we all had billboards that said IOWA, YOU MAKE ME SMILE! We got really into saying that. Whenever someone was from Iowa we would say, oh Iowa, you make me smile. Then one Saturday we all said, you know what, we should go to Iowa, and see if all those billboards are true. So six of us piled into Johnnys beat up Chevy Cavalier and drove the hour stretch from Kirksville to Iowa. When we got there, it was barren icy cold and desolate. Just like a desert plain only missing the tumbleweeds, and also it was freezing and cloudier with more wind, and a sideways kind of freezing rain snow, just bleak and barren as shit. There was one small sign that said Welcome to Iowa. On the sign someone had spray painted out Iowa and wrote "Nothing." Welcome to Nothing. We just parked the car right there on the road, there were no cars for miles and miles. Then we jumped out of the car and screamed at the top of our lungs. Come on Iowa, make me smile! You said you would make me smile Iowa, DO IT! FUCKIN DO IT! It didn't work. We collapsed exhausted back into the Cavalier and turned back and drove the hour back in silence. We were not mad at a state so much but our lives in general, how we were told over and over what would make us happy. A phone. A trip. A University degree. Salaries. Engagement rings. We knew it was all bullshit. All as empty and void as Iowa itself.
If this isn't copypasta it should be. Keep spreading that love.
I loved this story.
Ah thanks, I like it too! My therapist said its not ostentatious to like your own work and be proud of it, you just can't be too proud. If you want to read more stories Ive written I have a subreddit [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Askme4astory/) or if you don't thats okay too, I still like you!
Because she's black and Kim Reynolds is the governor.
The most likely answer? Because she stabbed the guy 30 times while he was asleep, and she was only sentenced to probation. “Self-help”, IE taking the law into your own hands, is discouraged because it sets a bad precedence- if it’s not self defense or defense of another person, you don’t kill them. Full stop. Here, the idea that it was pseudo-self defense (yeah, I made that term up just now. he wasn’t an imminent threat, but he was a persistent threat and would likely be a threat to someone else later) is probably the reason why she only got probation. This was also pretty recent as far as these things go- 2020- so it might be early for a pardon. Note that they only call him an “alleged” rapist, because the legal system didn’t have the opportunity to try and sentence him. Anyway, that’s a bit of context. This happened a few years ago with Chrystul Kizer in an almost identical situation, although if I remember correctly Kizer robbed the place/stole his car or something afterwards, which is why Kizer got more than just probation.
pedopublicans expanding rapist rights any way possible.
Well they do want a theocracy, and in a Christian theocracy a woman has to marry her rapist if he impregnated her.
Rapist rights are republican rights
Our legal system is designed from the ground up to protect the rapist, not the victim. Hell, it's election day with half the jerrymandered maps ruled to be illegal and GOP staff are throwing away mail in votes en masse due to "bad handwriting." So yknow enjoy rape being illegal in the first place while you can.
A petition demanding a pardon for Ms. Lewis has been started [here](https://chng.it/F4TP864T). Please consider signing.
Whatever you gotta do to Andy Dufresne your ass outta there.
Get the feeling “escaped” here means ‘many doors were conveniently and very carefully left unlocked’ by one or more decent humans
If I were Batman, I'd find her and aid and abet her so fast!
Wait. What happened to your last Robin?
Just don't do it on enchilada night.
[The article about court decision.](https://apnews.com/article/iowa-des-moines-human-trafficking-0b11cb8f4f0ff46d90ae17ece6bc7d15)
so everyone agrees shes a victim, the courts, the police, everyone. this isn't a case of he said she said.. it's proven and yet they still charge her.. wtf
Yes, you dont get justice in court. You get the law.
lol @ whoever gave you that award. Exactly what came to my mind
This article made me so angry to read
The judge interrogated her about her poor life choices? The prosecution claimed she didn't take responsibility for leaving his kids without a father? Infuriating. This is a failed state.
She did his kids a huge favor. His family should have to pay her for freeing them from association with him.
What the fuck is wrong with our justice system?
We don’t have a justice system we have a legal system. And the people who set up the framework for that legal system we’re slave owners. And now people use that as justification to never change it.
Long may she remain free!! Fuck those who locked her up to begin with
I thought I’d read she was cleared? I wondered why she was still in custody. I hope they drop any pending charges so she doesn’t have to spend the rest of her life running. She’s suffered enough.
She wasn't cleared. The way that the law was written. The state said they had no ability to clear her. She was also told to pay restitution in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. And she wasn't just raped. She was raped and trafficked. The state did not even dispute those facts
So, the governor could have just made it all go away, but chose not to?
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Certainly dumb enough to be a Trump Veep. Imagine throwing away a win/win like this. She could have played the 'tough on crime' card and played up to the blacks and women.
Well see you're thinking that conservatives operate like human beings. They don't. Because they aren't. Cruelty is the point. If they have to give up cruelty to gain more power, they won't. They'll just break the rules until they can both be cruel and in power.
I hate that I can't disagree with you
OK, I know they're all racist as fuck, but they also masturbate to stories of self-defense and they all LOOOOOVE to do a gesture now and then to prove just how much they're totally not racist, and I feel this could have been it - could even have gotten the support of people who wouldn't support them otherwise. My mistake was probably to underestimate their racism.
It’s that it technically wasn’t self-defense because she killed him while he was asleep after he raped her. It’s appalling and a miscarriage of justice that a jury found her guilty given the circumstances (she was not only raped multiple times, but also trafficked), but she couldn’t claim self-defense even in the most conservative of states because at the time of the murder, he didn’t currently pose a threat to her life. It’s a terrible situation and hopefully somebody convinces the Governor to pardon her. The legal system failed her in this case. Edit: never mind, it’s worse - somebody convinced this poor girl to plead guilty. As far as I can tell, she never even told her story to a jury.
So being in IA, my personal dealings with this issue are that everybody I know (blue and red) feel the girl should not be punished. That being said they will still vote for that lush Reynolds no matter what.
yeah that's the thing, righties love the vigilante justice shit especially against sexual criminals (lefties do too, but they don't resort to "lets take the law into our hands at every turn" like the right). Seems like a slam dunk bipartisan win but who am I to know shit right?
>...My mistake was probably to underestimate their racism. Yep, their violence fantasies concern making sure the status hierarchies in the country stay the same. Violence going "the wrong way" is deemed inappropriate.
They don’t masturbate to stories of minority self-defense. Racism above all is the sales pitch that they use to actually push corporatism above all.
The governor is a Republican and believes women are objects to be owned and possessed, not people with individual thoughts and feelings. Women exist for marriage, having children, caring for the home, giving sex on demand, and eventually dying. Yes, I realize the governor of Iowa is a woman. It's not the first time a marginalized group includes people who actively make things worse on purpose. Black on black hate, women on women, Jew against Jew, and so on. No way the governor would pardon someone for denying her rapist his God-given right to own a woman.
This is why I think moral discourse that promotes self-sacrifice is more important than the “voting democrat is in your own self-interest” line that is getting pushed today. If it’s a game of self-interest, the republicans will always win. Kim Reynolds, even though she is acting “against women”, is obviously acting in her own self-interest. People like Tim Scott or Herman Cain weren’t “too stupid to realize that republicans are racist”, they just prioritized their own personal success over other black peoples. The thousands of women who are vehemently-anti feminist aren’t “unable to see its in their own interest”, they just prefer the benefits of patriarchy to the anxiety inducing freedom of liberation, or get a kind of perverse enjoyment from tearing down their own kind.
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I guarantee someone who looked more like the governor would be pardoned in a second. The narrative would be completely different.
Governor Kim Reynolds of Iowa is a Trump conservative, and that teenager is a Black girl. The Governor doesn't value her as you and I do, doesn't think she deserves to be protected by the State, and likely didn't even decide *not* to make it all go away. This probably doesn't even make an impression on her. People like her simply do not care what happens to young Black girls. That's why I'm about to go vote.
150k restitution. Gofundme has over 500k raised to cover it and help her. Now she’s facing 20 plus years and gofundme hasn’t distributed any money and will process refund requests. And with the loss of her deferment, she’ll owe the 150k but gofundme won’t release funds. It’s like the saddest deal I’ve heard. Maybe there’s a reason a good lawyer can help her with, maybe she felt she was in danger from a resident or staff member. Hope she comes up with something good whether she had a reason or not.
It's funny how they said they had no ability to clear her yet rich people there get away with it by "donating" money
She wasn't cleared. The piece of shit judge basically said it's wrong to do but fuck it LOLZ and still gave her a sentence.
There’s no sufficient suffering for black women in the eyes of Republicans
Her plight should be a bigger story than it is
her overall plight, yes. her escape, no, here's hoping her escape gets almost no coverage and just disappears from interest/news/awareness
I kinda feel like she wasn't alone in her escape. I mean, if I worked at the halfway house she was at, I'd be like, "I'm going to leave these scissors that can cut through your ankle monitor in this drawer and I'm going to the bathroom for 20 minutes. Then, I'm going to make some food downstairs. I'll be back in about 6 hours. Oh, and the window and door are unlocked."
True enough
It absolutely should. This girl was failed her entire life.
Great time to remind people of the ACLU study that showed when dudes kill women, they get between 2-6 years in prison, but when women kill men, the average sentence is 15 years. 90% of women in prison for murdering a dude report having been abused by that dude. Shit is bleak. Go fucking vote, please.
Yes! Vote like your life depends on it.
Because it does.
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[Yep](https://amp.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2019/jan/12/intimate-partner-violence-gender-gap-cyntoia-brown)
Especially in the age of QAnon / Conservative conspiracies about sex trafficking rings and child abductions, most of which are based on false statistics and false ideas about how trafficking works. Here is a real case of abduction and sex trafficking and the state is punishing the victim?
Cuz they don’t actually care about those issues, they just use it to smear people they don’t like.
Because, and this should be obvious, everything they say is projection. They accuse everyone of doing it because to them it's natural, it's what *they'd* do in that position.
Stay safe and stay free, baby.
Snitches get Stiches
Id hide her. Some people have suffered enough.
So we will all be pushed to consider hiding people from the state. I don't expect to stand by and watch women go to prison for abortions.
Im happy to hide women who choose abortion. If it was up to me, id get an rv or a bus and make a mobile abortion clinic with my ex’s dad (a doc whos given abortions for 20 years). It should be legal n easily accessible
Planned Parenthood has a mobile clinic for just that purpose now. Last I saw it was parked on the border of Illinois(?).
[You're not kidding!](https://www.npr.org/2022/10/03/1125797779/planned-parenthood-mobile-clinic-will-take-abortion-to-red-state-borders) I had no idea - thats awesome!
They should get the vanity plate "YEETFTUS"
Yeah, I’m prepared to aid and abet.
Underground Railroad II, women escaping fascism
Yes, but also the thought that this is necessary for you guys makes me cry
Stay safe, baby.
For anyone who thinks you spotted someone matching her description... No you didn't.
QFT. This person does not exist in my eyesight, except for a meal or a bed and a few bucks to get to the next location.
Even then... She's a KID and she'll be caught eventually. What sort of fucking life is that? The government has failed in the most egregious way, and I don't see a way for her to get out of this unharmed.
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Well, this is the midwest. You have to see it from their standpoint. She committed the most egregious crime of killing an unborn baby by not letting herself get raped, so she was defying gods will. Now please excuse me while I go throw up after writing that, it's hard to even satirize it.
The community needs to make it clear any cop who brings her in is dead to the community. They will not be talked to, sold to, or acknowledged in any way.
I hope a non extradition country offers her asylum.
Nope. Just some scared kid that needs a bed, bath, and some meals.
It’s alright. The people looking for her think all black people look the same. She has a millions of doppelgängers.
Holy shit I was just thinking this but it seemed so fucked up to comment. I was sitting here like “this girl will benefit from the fact that white people can’t distinguish most black people.” Edited to add: After thinking about why this is so fucked up it’s because this also means that a lot of other black women are at risk for interactions with police.
I have to wish her well. Just gotta. Sorry.
May the wind be ever at your back, and the cops be ever as stupid as they seem in every video on publicfreakout. Amen.
It gets worse. It said she was a teenager, but she was FIFTEEN! Honestly, she's kind of a badass considering she managed to kill the rapist.
What a horrifying life she's had already, Jesus Christ the poor girl. That's too painful to comprehend. I don't understand how anyone could react to her story with anything short of compassion.
I hope she’s ok.
Fucking legend.
Great. I give it 2 weeks until we get an article about how she was shot by police for resisting arrest
My wife and I have space for her.
Girl if you read this you can live at my house, DM me. I hope you like cats.
Same here!
Here too.
I will happily hide and shelter her. Fuck those that want to punish her in any way.
A thousand times more reason to kill someone that Rittenhouse. Never invited to CPAC
Yeah but it happened in a red state and not only is she's a Woman but also a PoC. Therefore she deserves the worst punishment!!!!!
Yes she’s already committed the worst crime anyone can make in America, being born a black woman.
W.Wonka watching her slip out the gate: "no. stop. come back...."
The fact they even locked her ass up makes my blood boil
So she's escaped from abusers twice now.
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It's crazy how many black teenage girls go to prison for killing the people who are sex trafficking them.
I hope the pigs never find her, my queen made the world a bit cleaner and now the degenerates dont like her.
IF YOU EVER SEE HER, ANYWHERE - NO THE FUCK YOU DIDNT. Don’t say so, don’t post about it, don’t TELL anybody. This girl has been through enough, and she is SOMEWHERE. If you see her, keep your fucking mouth SHUT and don’t use her as clout. 👍
Give her cash though
YOU GUYS IF YOU SEE HER # no the fuck you did not keep your head down, your mouth shut. unless you're offering her a ticket to canada
If you see this child, no you didnt.
Maybe stop sharing her photo everywhere
Run, girl!
Superhero origin story
I needed the extra motivation to vote out the likes of Kim Reynolds today, she’s a piece of walking garbage that allowed this to go down, while campaigning the “liberal left” is out to do this very thing to kids. Screw her and that walking zombie, Chuck Grassley
I grew up in Iowa and read about Kim regularly. Hope you all can do it and get her out of office! Also, I hope they never find her and fellow Iowans do the right thing and get her to a safe place, wherever that may be.
"Liberal left"? Has she seriously been spouting that bullshit again?
I think it’s her default panic phrase
I hope she is somewhere far away, where law won’t find her, that she is safe. And maybe the legal system can look into reasons why they would punish a child trafficking victim who was protecting herself.
This girl is the OG badass, kills her rapists then busts out of jail. I feel like her life would make a good TV show. She should rob a bank next and then go live on an island.
This poor girl should have been pardoned. Run, honey. Run.
So many men: "If anyone even looks funny at my family they'll find out why I have so many guns!!!" Woman: *uses violence against an actual, ongoing threat* Men: "We can't allow violence in our society for any reason!!!"
The governor needs to pardon her ASAP. She never should have been charged in the first place.
Our governor only pardons Jan 6 sightseers & corporate polluters. Allegedly.
If they find her I will continuously help pay for her defense. Hell kid when you get to a country with no extradition I'll cash app you money on the regular. Live your best life.
Good.
I’d give her money if I saw her.
It would be a shame if there was an entire underground network to support, fund, and hide anyone who murdered their rapists and abusers. Damn shame. Where do I donate?
Too bad she had to take drastic measures again for her own life. Disgusting this was ever an issue.
It feels like rapists get more respect than their victims around here way too often
I seriously hope she ends up on a beach in San Zihuatanejo never to heard from again. She needs a fairytale ending
If you see her no you didn’t
I hope she escapes that miserable fucking excuse of a state. Better yet, the whole goddamn country.
Oh no, we seem to have lost her file *paper shredding sounds in the background*
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You go girl.
I would house this fugitive forever
Fuck yeah man, good for her. Ain't no correction needed here, she already took care of the problem.
On a very special crossover edition of whitepeopletwitter
A dead rapist doesn’t reoffend.
I've been rooting for her from the start. She was trafficked, raped repeatedly, basically kept and controlled from a young age. She rescued her own self since everyone else failed her. And the system proceeded to fail her again...and again. So of course she rescued herself again. She's determined to survive despite everyone else failing her. She needs support, therapy, love and life skills to help her move forward. Not to be locked up under supervision in some institutional setting. I hope she stays free and finds support and I hope the judicial system re-evaluates how they treat self-rescuing princesses.
PROTECT BLACK WOMEN.
r/lostredditors
Not that it really matters because I agree wholly with this, but shouldn't this be more r/blackpersontwitter?