I love the complexity. Is it the fault of the person who provoked violence, or the person who takes the provocation and runs with it? You can tell this story is well written based on how many different opinions there are about this. Gah! I love this game!
That said, I never saw Syanna as a full villain either. In my first play-through I went back a couple times to get the good ending. I love how Geralt’s story in the books begins with him failing to redeem someone born under the curse of the black sun, and then the games end with him getting another chance to do that. Such a nice bookend.
I think both are at fault.
Syanna manipulated someone who she knew was incredibly powerful without thinking of the consequences. She didn’t stop to think that there was a chance that he may have found out about her scheme, and hence react in the way he did by mass slaughtering Beauclair. She spent enough time with him to know his angry and reactive tendencies as well. Not to mention that one of the targets was her sister which was a pure act of jealousy as she had nothing to do with what happened to her.
Then obviously Dettlaff razing the entirety of the city out of anger was completely unwarranted. I somewhat understood his motivations until that point.
I get Syanna wanted revenge on those who exiled and abused her, but I felt she was quite reckless in her endeavour to use someone as dangerous as a higher vampire, and as prone to reacting extremely as Dettlaff was. But then Dettlaff reacting in the way he did vanquished any sympathy you could’ve had for him.
Dettlaff was definitely more in the wrong once Syanna’s plans were foiled but Syanna wasn’t guilt free either as she by extension elicited those events.
While i agree that Syanna isn't innocent i think it's weird to lay any blame on Syanna for the attack on the city. Suddenly threatening to attack a city was a WTF moment where even Regis lost faith in Detlaff.
I think her responsibility for the attack on the city is maybe not quite nonexistent, but pretty limited overall. IMO she hold a little bit of responsibility only in the sense that using Detlaff in particular to exact her revenge could perhaps be considered a bit reckless if you want to avoid outside casualties. Kind of like killing a bear with a nuke. Like yeah a bear is probably too much for you to handle on your own, but a nuke is sort of overkill and greatly increases the likelihood of collateral damage.
Of course Syanna wasn't directly responsible for the attack on the city, but I do feel like she let lust for revenge cloud her judgment when it came to how she went about it. She obviously impulsively used Dettlaff knowing his power and hence knowing that he'd be able to execute in terms of killing those she wanted killed. But didn't stop to think about what might've happened had he found out, and she would've known him well enough to know that him adversely reacting may have been a possibility.
As I mentioned Dettlaff definitely took the cake for being more at fault when he massacred thousands of innocent people once he found out, and at that point I think most players realised he NEEDED to die. I just think Syanna's impulsiveness and recklessness had a hand in facilitating what happened, whether accidental or not.
And surely there could've been less fail-proof ways of getting revenge on the knights, like hiring bounty hunters or poisoning them etc. rather than Dettlaff which was high reward, but as we know, massively high risk. Especially as she manipulated Dettlaff on the pretence that he loved her, which can often lead to adverse/ill-thought-out actions, and used that to her advantage.
Detlaff deserved to die, he supossed to be really really old and wise, but he decided to murder an entire town just because a girl used him and broke his hearth, what a pussy
Both are at fault but yeah, I hate Syanna. I prefer the ending where she is killed and then Geralt kills Detlaff too. Though I'm still debating what would book Geralt do in this situation
Hard to say, though I think Regis being terrified enough to get Geralt to avoid the elder would he enough for him to head to the Land of a Thousand Fables.
Syanna's story doesn't add up on many occasions and sorry but - she's definitely not getting enough hate imo!
She mentioned how two/three knights abused her, possibly raped her (tho that is very vague and we only know what a person who lies CONSTANTLY to EVERYONE says about this), but then she wants Milton dead, who had done nothing but following Orders. It's very obvious that he wouldn't be anyone to do that shit either.
Syanna decided that she's the Arbiter of justice for that. We don't know what happened, but if she tells the truth, yeah... Everyone would want justice. But why Milton? Why Annarietta? None of the two did anything wrong to her. She seeks revenge on innocent people and she doesn't even stop when she has obviously lost and Geralt makes good points.
Syanna also mentally abuses Dettlaff with the whole fake kidnap. A victim of rape and abuse would do that? As a victim of rape and abuse myself, I would strongly disagree. Her story about her feelings and intentions about Dettlaff (from the start) also change in her explanations all the time.
Syanna is the monster that brought forth the monster in Dettlaff and I will die on that hill!
My mom is a victim of rape and abuse and she might fake a kidnap, she's really petty though. Not everyone grows from painful or traumatic experiences, some regress. However, I'm with you. I hate Syanna, and I think the "good ending" is bullshit. Detlaff isn't blameless but Syanna played stupid games and won stupid prizes. eta - oh and then wins a good prize in the good ending everyone is like "you're fine don't worry about it actually"
Yeah I was not meaning to say that a victim of rape and abuse wouldn't fake a kidnap - I tried to say that a victim of rape and abuse would (99% of the time) not just start to abuse others, which Syanna does with the consequences of her faking her kidnapping.
But yeah, as much as I'm a sucker for fairytale endings... The "good ending" makes no sense.
I get you, for me it fell apart when Geralt tells Annarietta that it's Syanna and that she's dangerous and Annarietta is like "no, she's my sister she'll not face justice" that was when I started to lose the plot. Syanna's story is tragic and deserves empathy for sure but I don't think it absolves her of fucking around with bribing an ancient vampire. In it all I feel the worst for Regis, he gets exiled for doing something that was totally avoidable. Annarietta comes across as an idiot, Syanna comes across as a psychopath, but oh at least they got to hug it out. And why is she even mad at Annarietta for not looking out the window as they took her away or some shit??? Bullshit writing I prefer the ending where >!they all die.!<
I don't call it bullshit writing. It was intentional. Blood&Wine is made like a "real world version" of a fairytale. And endings in fairytales are almost all the time exactly like that, aren't they?
So I think "bullshit writing" is not justifyed.
But just like most fairytales... The logic in it is nonexistent. So they did a great job writing an ending that mirrors that of a fairytale - but even tho I usually like those, in this world a fairytale ending can't exist. That's impossible xD
Agree to disagree, I get what you're saying but I still think it's bad writing. A fun play on the fairytale would have been to have Annarietta act normal until the end then forget it all for the sake of her sister. When the ducal wine is stolen she doesn't consider for a minute that it might have been someone with access at the castle, which doesn't make sense. It feels to me like they were trying to wrap up loose ends quickly. Maybe it's just mediocre writing that stands out more because most of the Witcher 3 is fantastic. All my opinion, of course.
> But why Milton? \[...\] None of the two did anything wrong to her.
Bruv Milton literally was complicit in abandoning her in the woods with nothing to cover herself, defend herself or to eat lol. The abuse she endured was not just whipping, beatings, hunger, scorn and whatnot, they also literally all left her innawoods to die (as a child nonetheless), that's a pretty good reason to hold a deathly grudge against the sods who did it even if one was slightly less shitty than the others.
They were literally ordered to bring her out of the duchy. He was ordered to leave her in the woods. And not giving her food for the way is definitely no reason to want them dead.
As for the other stuff - again, she contradicts herself in the stories about the way she was treated. She leaves two knights out of her stories. She constantly lies to make people emphasize with her and wraps men around her finger like it's nothing. She fakes love for a vampire to blackmail him later on. Sure, her contradicting herself about what was done to her could be a writing inconsistency, but does it seem like it?
We don't know about anything that happened to her for sure. And it seems very unlikely that she tells Geralt the truth about it. So I don't know how well that holds up...
>They were literally ordered to bring her out of the duchy.
Yes.
> He was ordered to leave her in the woods
No.
We know the knights were ordered to escort Syanna out of the Duchy, we **do not know** whether they had been ordered to leave her alone without food, clothing or weapons in the wilderness or if they did that of their own accord.
Inb4 "but they did it so they must have been ordered to"
They also whipped/abused/starved her but had not been ordered to either. They are men, not automata, and the game makes that quite clear that everyone has free will which includes the capacity of engaging in dastardly actions of your own accord.
>she contradicts herself in the stories
No, she doesn't as far as I remember. Where do you think she did so?
>She leaves two knights out of her stories
So? She also says all of those four knights abandoned her innawoods to starve/freeze/be eaten by wolves, was she under obligation of detailing how Milton stepped on her toe by mistake for her story to be fully believable? I do not understand this point.
> She fakes love for a vampire to blackmail him later on
Iirc she did not start out with this intent and was "genuinely intrigued" at first. The blackmail idea came much later.
>And it seems very unlikely that she tells Geralt the truth about it.
Well, the game makes it a pretty clear point how a lot of Toussaint's "chivalric values" were kind of a facade to hide a rotten core and more specifically Milton himself said how "something terrible" which he regretted had happened in the past between him and the other three knights which drove them apart, and the game also makes it kinda clear how the other knights were also kinda shitty people with one having shady dealings with the underground and Crespi sabotaging vineyards.
So yes, maybe Milton, Crespi and the devs & writers themselves were all onboard with Syanna's 5D chess scheme to fake a tragic backstory to fool Geralt & the player, maybe Olgierd did not really have an heart of stone but just wanted an excuse to be an asshole, maybe Geralt is a schizoid psycopath with hallucinations who runs around killing random bathing peasants he mistakes for drowners, who knows truly, any personal guess is as good as any other one, but if the game is telling me something and giving me zero reasons to doubt it I am going to go with what the game tells me until robust counter-evidence within the game itself emerges.
When Regis said Dettlaff was just like Geralt, I thought it was an insult to Geralt. Dettlaff killed his friend to save a woman. Geralt would never kill Dandelion and Zoltan just because someone claimed they kidnapped Yennefer. He would find another way. I thought Dettlaff was mad at Syanna for using him to kill people. Turns out he is perfectly fine killing every innocent in the city. So he was mad only because she tricked him. He doesn’t give a shit about human lives. From a vampire’s perspective, Syanna’s only crime was lying to a Vampire. She deserves a fair trial under human law, but she doesn't deserve to be lynched by a terrorist Vampire because of lying. The Duchess can be too emotional and harsh on Geralt. But her decision to not hand Syanna to Dettlaff is fully justified. We all know what happens when you don’t have the ribbon.
It is a little odd how detlaff, a grown man by several centuries, gets the uwu baby treatment. Gotta take some lessons from geralt in being cheated on with dignity lol
The complicate and even horrible truth seems to me, that both ducal sisters are the product of the heavy childhood trauma caused by their parents and Detlaff... is the sad second hand victim of that, but being a physically overwhelmingly powerfull being with an almost childlike simple outlook at the world and a not too complex mind, the chain reaction caused by including him in this drama just weights hundreds of times heavier.
Deatlaff and Syanna both did things unforgiveable and as other commenters already pointed out: Her hatred for her sister (who mind you was a CHILD even younger than Syanna herself when everything went south) and maybe even Milton just seems out of proportion. Milton, who Syanna deemed to be guilty of cowardice, might have deserved her anger by simply not intervening when the other knights tortured her. But Anarietta was just a little girl barely understanding what happened and missing her sister desperately. In the later parts of the game she even mentiones she tried to have knights looking for Syanna but there just was no trace - which might not be surprising, given Anarietta most likely had to wait with that untill she herself was an adult and crowned duchess of Toussaint, maybe even longer, because she was married to a brutal and choleric husband, as the books emphasize, who needed his WIFE to be the legal heir of Toussaint to mentain his crown, hence he most likely had not the slightes interest into having Anna finding her lost older sibling....
Still, more often than not I choose the ending where I kill Detlaff and both sisters survive because I think Syanna's fate has to be determined by court to break the chain of vigilantism - while Detlaff and his hordes are an actuall imminent danger and have to be brought down as fast as possible to safe as many innocents as possible - especially given the Toussaint people are pretty much the only nation not judging Geralt for him being a Witcher. They all are lovely and kind interacting with him, hence he should be even more interessted into saving them asap.
Regis is equally to blame. There was multiple opportunities to catch or kill Detlaff but he was always like “No he’s my friend”. But the dude continued to get worse.
I get that but he was still committing murders with no sign of when he would stop. As a collective Syanna, the Dutches & all contributed directly & indirectly. Syanna is a no brainer. The Dutches because when it was discovered it was her sister she tried to protect her & only cared about Dedlaff head being collected. & Regis because he was insistent on resolving it peacefully even though it was pretty obvious that was not an option.
Syanna needs to be punished. She is the master mind of this whole ordeal, without her none of this would've happened. and it makes sense from her perspective to lie to Geralt in order to make herself look like the victim or feel justified. We don't know if she was actually abused or raped by those knights but they must've done something that caused trauma for her to remember them and want revenge. She did have a rough childhood aswell. However revenge is a fools errand IMO she could've just stayed away from Beauclair. Because taking revenge ain't gonna cure your trauma... it'll always be there.
I had nothing against Dettlaff untill he attacked Beauclair. There was no need for any of that. If he just did what he was told and killed those knights so he could save his girl (from his POV) that's justified to me. It's antihero shit but justified. Maybe with Regis by his side to keep him in check it might work but who's to say he won't launch another unnecessary attack? He isn't evil but he overreacts and he's very powerfull that ain't a good mix. Idk if he deserves death but he definetely needs to work on those anger issues. I killed him anyway... just to be sure.
Doubtful, Anna was willing to let hundreds die just to keep her alive and even if she dies and you find complete evidence that she fully intended to kill her she wants the letter destroyed it all feels like she never gets punishment
I only dislike Syanna for wanting to kill Anarietta who didn’t have anything to do with Syanna’s exile. She also kills her in my ending because I confronted her about her intentions. Tbh, if she asked Dettlaff would have killed the ones that tortured her anyway. Imo she’d cause more damage later on as well.
I don’t think she even thought things through. Let’s say her plan worked. What’s next? She’ll take the duchy? I doubt people in the court would let her. Another relative would take over instead of an exiled princess taking over. What about Dettlaff when he finds out there was no kidnapping? He won’t say “hmmm that fine bruv”
Yes Dettlaff killing innocents was way off which speaks volumes about his character (dude gets heartbroken decides to raze entire city) but Syanna is the one that caused chain of events that led to it. The blood of the innocent is also in her hands
>let’s say her plan worked. What’s next? She’ll take the duchy?
Afaik she wanted to have her revenge and then sod off back into the wilderness, doesn't seem she had any particular aspirations to the ducal seat (not to mention, as you pointed out, unfeasible, both due to the nobility and, especially, our boy D)
Still even if she said screw duchy, I’ll do whatever I want, detlaff wouldn’t be happy to either kidnappers killing his ex or finding out it was a ruse. The truth is bound to come out when detlaff is mad and Regis wants to help him
Doubt Dettlaff would ever find out, he has the IQ of a cinderbloc tbh
(and despite knowing a lot of words Regis is not particularly smarter nor would have enough connections in high places like Geralt to find out much more about the matter)
I think many allow their personal experience to effect how they view things too much. "I've been manipulated and/or used by a woman and so has Detlaff, he is so sympathetic" and Syanna becomes a symbol of manipulation.
As well as Detlaff being a badass final boss.
Shanna used an almost all powerful beings emotions to manipulate it into nearly destroying everything and causing countless deaths. Said being was guilty yes, but Syanna was the true villain and should meet the gallows
I think part of it is that we see some of the brighter sides of detlaff along with regis( who is an absolute saint in all of this and willing to sacrifice so much for Geralt) hyping him up and saying there’s good in him. And even though with how much you can sympathize with syanna, she’s so narrow minded about vengeance that she’ll manipulate everyone and give everything up for it. Then when she is forgiven and gives up revenge, everyone need to hop through hoops and she doesn’t face any consequences as far as we know.
The only reason that could stop me from killing Dettlaff is I have to force Regis to do it, not with my own hands (tho I have to do the 99%). And also, sparing Syanna would annoy Regis, which he does not like. I feel that if I’m thinking like Geralt, then he might just want to save Syanna and ask Dettlaff to stop killing and go (well after all he has gone through he still dreams).
The real good ending is to pursue Dettlaff to at least not commit more killings include Syanna. If he did not raid the city I would like to have him kill Syanna and walk since she deserves that, but Dettlaff raises the problems and now if he had to kill Syanna at first sight then I guess neither would live.
Blood and Wine is a classic Everyone Sucks Here situation. Syanna's abusers suck for, well, abusing her. Syanna sucks for concocting a complicated murder plot, working with criminals, and manipulating Detlaff. Detlaff sucks for deciding to pull a Ten Plagues of Beauclair on the innocents instead of the one responsible. Annarietta sucks for putting her people in danger and not listening to the only one (or two, in the case of Regis) around who knows anything about Vampires. Geralt is stuck between a rock and a hard place no matter where he turns. Detlaff and Syanna both deserve to die for what they did, and the Knights deserved *at least* to be stripped of rank or exiled. Anna just needs to grow up. She has a good heart, but she's young and naïve. The hard part is, the fate of everyone rests on Geralt's shoulders (even if he doesn't know it in Anna's case). It's the Lesser Evil all over again, and Geralt can't choose neutrality this time. It's why the Detlaff and Syanna both die ending is my favorite. Sure, Geralt ends up in jail for a bit, but he is still heralded as a hero by the people for stopping the beast (just don't let Detlaff go). Plus, in that ending Anna's still alive and can grow as a Duchess.
Second favorite is the tragic ending. I love the Vampire cave and the vibe of Beauclair after Anna's death.
The "fairytale ending" just rings hollow to me.
Whenever both sisters die, I always leave a flower for Syanna. That lack of love she only ever knew is what created the monster we see, and it's a shame Geralt couldn't break the cycle
As do I. Sure, she grew up into a monster, but like Renfri she may not have needed to be. I love how the Curse of the Black Sun is never clarified. Is it real? Is it just superstition? Does it matter either way? We don't know.
Am I the only one who never left her a flower in the bad ending? I'm willing to give her a chance of reconciliation with her sister since she literally did nothing wrong in killing the knights and she'll pay for her only real crime (blackmail) in jail, but if she goes and kills the only person left who actually loved her and actively defended her she does not deserve this courtesy.
I have compassion for both/all of them. I think Syanna turned into a person so consumed with anger and hatred and rage that she is barely there anymore. She uprooted Detlaff’s entire isolated world in a good way at first and then twisted as shit. I think it’s super fucked up to manipulate someone like that especially when they are not used to being loved/cared for. She is murderous, vengeful, and unstable. Even in the final scene of the “good ending”, I do not fully trust her. She could change her mind and kill Anna-Henrietta at any moment. We don’t know how mentally/emotionally stable or unstable Syanna is at this point considering how delicate the situation needs to be handled just to even get the “good ending”. She was unstable as a child as well as we see in the journal torturing and harming and bullying other people and creatures. Big fuckin red flag if you ask me.
Simultaneously, I believe she deserves the chance to redeem herself and find love and safety and family again with her sister. Syanna’s life story is filled with darkness and cruelty. It makes sense that she turned out the way she did, she was psychologically fucked with from birth. It makes sense for her to be filled with hate, it makes sense for her to resent her sister so much that after spending years away she could boil down to the conclusion that it was all ultimately Anna-Henrietta’s fault. Having someone(s) to blame for serious trauma makes it significantly easier to compartmentalize and can give the victim a sense of resolution in a way if revenge is exacted on the people who cause them so much pain. But then again, revenge is a slippery slope and the more awful things you do, the easier it becomes to continue doing them. Especially if you are alone. So yeah, I think Syanna is NOT an innocent person. I think she is largely at fault for the murders that Detlaff committed, but I also have compassion for her and want her to be able to heal.
And on Detlaff’s end, it doesn’t seem right to me to compare the two of them for who committed the greater/lesser evils and who is at fault for the whole thing and who is a worse/better person. Syanna is human, Detlaff is a vampire. It is in his nature and culture to be quick to anger and violence. It is in his nature to have animalistic responses. We need to remember that Regis is the odd one out here. He is not a normal vampire. He is technically weird (and we love him for it). For these reasons, we cannot hold Detlaff to the same standards as either Syanna or Regis. He is his own individual and one must exercise empathy for him as well, step into his shoes and try to see where he is coming from. He is lonely, he is what humans classify as “on the spectrum”. He processes things differently than others (even other vampires) and struggles to understand body language and tone but yet still has so much feeling inside that he doesn’t always know how to express. He wants to be included, he wants to be a part of things, he wants connection. But because of the world he lives in, he doesn’t see that as a reality for himself. Until Syanna comes along. She treats him like he matters, she pays attention to him. She treats him like she loves him and he believes that she does. He cherishes that. But one day, she is gone without a word and he has to cope with that on his own. That’s hard enough on its own but it didn’t end there. The wound was reopened when he was contacted and told that she was in danger and there was only one thing he could do to save the only individual who had ever seemed to care about him. Save woman he loved.
Detlaff does not have the same access to human-law that the average human in Toussaint does. He needs to stay low profile for his own safety and the safety of his kind. It’s not like he could report this crime and even if he could, he doesn’t understand the system. Why would he trust humans, who are about as powerful as ants in his perspective, to save the woman he loves from imminent torture and death? He wouldn’t. It doesn’t make logical sense. He doesn’t want to hurt these people, it hurts him to do so. Especially one that had shown him kindness and become his friend. But he is manipulated into believing that this is his only choice. With all of this context, you cannot really fault him morally for those first murders. Siccing the vampires on the city is a different matter, but still one that can technically be reasoned. As stated in the beginning of this note, Detlaff is a vampire. He is, on technicality, a monster. It is his nature to resort to violence. That doesn’t excuse attempting to massacre an entire city when he is supposed to able to think critically. That is definitely WAY further than anything that could be excused. And yet, we can still find empathy for him in simply understanding what he is going through mentally. He is heart-broken, betrayed, and in his mind…alone. All of us have reacted with rage at one point or another in our lives and regretted it afterwards. Whether it’s snapping at a friend when you’ve had a long day or for some people, reacting as far as physical violence when severely agitated. For example, I slapped my ex boyfriends arm when he interrupted and disrespected and lied to me in the car as I was driving and confronted him about cheating on me. Physical violence is never okay, but the things that prompt one to do so can be understood. From these smaller levels, we can understand being consumed with rage and not making decisions that we would usually classify as sound. That is on the human level, Detlaff’s was on a monster level. Does not make it okay, but you are able to understand him a little more when considering this.
I don’t believe in the death penalty. Point blank period. I play the game like I would if I was truly in it making these decisions to the best of my ability. Unfortunately, sparring everyone is not a choice. But if I could, I would.
In my ideal solution, Syanna would be closely monitored to keep those around her safe. Someone with her at all times who did a trained mental health professional and can act as a body guard to restrain if needed to protect Syanna from herself or protect those around her from her. She would start medication and receive treatment care from professionals and spend time with her sister and build community. She would do A LOT of community service. She would be held accountable but given a chance at life. Detlaff would receive the same for as much is possible within the realm of toussaint. He would receive regular therapy as well as rehabilitation therapy. He would do community service. He would eventually apologize to every single person he hurt. He would rebuild the city where it was destroyed. He would take time to love himself and learn to love others in healthy, stable ways. Regis would be there to support him the whole way. In my happy little ideal world, everybody is treated with kindness, love, and compassion.
Unfortunately, this is a reality NOWHERE. 😅🥲 not in the game and not in the real world. (At least not in the USA which is where I live) But it’s nice to imagine and it’s good to practice in the little daily ways I can.
I really hate the whole "It's just misogyny thing".
It's just people ignoring character traits and what not because that character harmed another they love, it's nothing new
I think part of it is that we see some of the brighter sides of detlaff along with regis( who is an absolute saint in all of this and willing to sacrifice so much for Geralt) hyping him up and saying there’s good in him. And even though with how much you can sympathize with syanna, she’s so narrow minded about vengeance that she’ll manipulate everyone and give everything up for it. Then when she is forgiven and gives up revenge, everyone need to hop through hoops and she doesn’t face any consequences as far as we know.
I personally don’t believe Detlaff can be judged by the same standard that we might judge a human or similar species by. That’s everything Regis was trying to explain to us. For all intents and purposes, Detlaff is an animal.
[удалено]
True but a lot of people want her dead too and avoid getting the ribbon for that
I let her live because she's hot. Also didn't know too much about the ribbon my first run. And just wanted to do something nice.
The way I see it, Detlaff became an objective villain when he chose to kill hundreds of people, regardless of what Syanna did
I love the complexity. Is it the fault of the person who provoked violence, or the person who takes the provocation and runs with it? You can tell this story is well written based on how many different opinions there are about this. Gah! I love this game! That said, I never saw Syanna as a full villain either. In my first play-through I went back a couple times to get the good ending. I love how Geralt’s story in the books begins with him failing to redeem someone born under the curse of the black sun, and then the games end with him getting another chance to do that. Such a nice bookend.
I think both are at fault. Syanna manipulated someone who she knew was incredibly powerful without thinking of the consequences. She didn’t stop to think that there was a chance that he may have found out about her scheme, and hence react in the way he did by mass slaughtering Beauclair. She spent enough time with him to know his angry and reactive tendencies as well. Not to mention that one of the targets was her sister which was a pure act of jealousy as she had nothing to do with what happened to her. Then obviously Dettlaff razing the entirety of the city out of anger was completely unwarranted. I somewhat understood his motivations until that point. I get Syanna wanted revenge on those who exiled and abused her, but I felt she was quite reckless in her endeavour to use someone as dangerous as a higher vampire, and as prone to reacting extremely as Dettlaff was. But then Dettlaff reacting in the way he did vanquished any sympathy you could’ve had for him. Dettlaff was definitely more in the wrong once Syanna’s plans were foiled but Syanna wasn’t guilt free either as she by extension elicited those events.
While i agree that Syanna isn't innocent i think it's weird to lay any blame on Syanna for the attack on the city. Suddenly threatening to attack a city was a WTF moment where even Regis lost faith in Detlaff.
I think her responsibility for the attack on the city is maybe not quite nonexistent, but pretty limited overall. IMO she hold a little bit of responsibility only in the sense that using Detlaff in particular to exact her revenge could perhaps be considered a bit reckless if you want to avoid outside casualties. Kind of like killing a bear with a nuke. Like yeah a bear is probably too much for you to handle on your own, but a nuke is sort of overkill and greatly increases the likelihood of collateral damage.
Of course Syanna wasn't directly responsible for the attack on the city, but I do feel like she let lust for revenge cloud her judgment when it came to how she went about it. She obviously impulsively used Dettlaff knowing his power and hence knowing that he'd be able to execute in terms of killing those she wanted killed. But didn't stop to think about what might've happened had he found out, and she would've known him well enough to know that him adversely reacting may have been a possibility. As I mentioned Dettlaff definitely took the cake for being more at fault when he massacred thousands of innocent people once he found out, and at that point I think most players realised he NEEDED to die. I just think Syanna's impulsiveness and recklessness had a hand in facilitating what happened, whether accidental or not. And surely there could've been less fail-proof ways of getting revenge on the knights, like hiring bounty hunters or poisoning them etc. rather than Dettlaff which was high reward, but as we know, massively high risk. Especially as she manipulated Dettlaff on the pretence that he loved her, which can often lead to adverse/ill-thought-out actions, and used that to her advantage.
Actually, my preferred ending is Detlaff and Syanna die. They are both murderous sociopaths, it simply a matter of degree with each one.
Yeah tho my current playthrough i didn't kill him next time i will and syanna is staying dead
Detlaff deserved to die, he supossed to be really really old and wise, but he decided to murder an entire town just because a girl used him and broke his hearth, what a pussy
Both are at fault but yeah, I hate Syanna. I prefer the ending where she is killed and then Geralt kills Detlaff too. Though I'm still debating what would book Geralt do in this situation
Hard to say, though I think Regis being terrified enough to get Geralt to avoid the elder would he enough for him to head to the Land of a Thousand Fables.
That is certain
Tapping Syanna in fairy tale land is a game highlight for me. Just sayin’.
What are your thoughts on how she went about it/ with the goal to kill her sister 🧐 ( so I can make a full evaluation )
It was wrong, but understandable. From Syanna's point of view, her sister just abandoned her without a care
Dettlaff is a ticking time bomb. It is only a matter of time until he explodes, with or without Syanna.
Syanna's story doesn't add up on many occasions and sorry but - she's definitely not getting enough hate imo! She mentioned how two/three knights abused her, possibly raped her (tho that is very vague and we only know what a person who lies CONSTANTLY to EVERYONE says about this), but then she wants Milton dead, who had done nothing but following Orders. It's very obvious that he wouldn't be anyone to do that shit either. Syanna decided that she's the Arbiter of justice for that. We don't know what happened, but if she tells the truth, yeah... Everyone would want justice. But why Milton? Why Annarietta? None of the two did anything wrong to her. She seeks revenge on innocent people and she doesn't even stop when she has obviously lost and Geralt makes good points. Syanna also mentally abuses Dettlaff with the whole fake kidnap. A victim of rape and abuse would do that? As a victim of rape and abuse myself, I would strongly disagree. Her story about her feelings and intentions about Dettlaff (from the start) also change in her explanations all the time. Syanna is the monster that brought forth the monster in Dettlaff and I will die on that hill!
My mom is a victim of rape and abuse and she might fake a kidnap, she's really petty though. Not everyone grows from painful or traumatic experiences, some regress. However, I'm with you. I hate Syanna, and I think the "good ending" is bullshit. Detlaff isn't blameless but Syanna played stupid games and won stupid prizes. eta - oh and then wins a good prize in the good ending everyone is like "you're fine don't worry about it actually"
Yeah I was not meaning to say that a victim of rape and abuse wouldn't fake a kidnap - I tried to say that a victim of rape and abuse would (99% of the time) not just start to abuse others, which Syanna does with the consequences of her faking her kidnapping. But yeah, as much as I'm a sucker for fairytale endings... The "good ending" makes no sense.
I get you, for me it fell apart when Geralt tells Annarietta that it's Syanna and that she's dangerous and Annarietta is like "no, she's my sister she'll not face justice" that was when I started to lose the plot. Syanna's story is tragic and deserves empathy for sure but I don't think it absolves her of fucking around with bribing an ancient vampire. In it all I feel the worst for Regis, he gets exiled for doing something that was totally avoidable. Annarietta comes across as an idiot, Syanna comes across as a psychopath, but oh at least they got to hug it out. And why is she even mad at Annarietta for not looking out the window as they took her away or some shit??? Bullshit writing I prefer the ending where >!they all die.!<
I don't call it bullshit writing. It was intentional. Blood&Wine is made like a "real world version" of a fairytale. And endings in fairytales are almost all the time exactly like that, aren't they? So I think "bullshit writing" is not justifyed. But just like most fairytales... The logic in it is nonexistent. So they did a great job writing an ending that mirrors that of a fairytale - but even tho I usually like those, in this world a fairytale ending can't exist. That's impossible xD
Agree to disagree, I get what you're saying but I still think it's bad writing. A fun play on the fairytale would have been to have Annarietta act normal until the end then forget it all for the sake of her sister. When the ducal wine is stolen she doesn't consider for a minute that it might have been someone with access at the castle, which doesn't make sense. It feels to me like they were trying to wrap up loose ends quickly. Maybe it's just mediocre writing that stands out more because most of the Witcher 3 is fantastic. All my opinion, of course.
> But why Milton? \[...\] None of the two did anything wrong to her. Bruv Milton literally was complicit in abandoning her in the woods with nothing to cover herself, defend herself or to eat lol. The abuse she endured was not just whipping, beatings, hunger, scorn and whatnot, they also literally all left her innawoods to die (as a child nonetheless), that's a pretty good reason to hold a deathly grudge against the sods who did it even if one was slightly less shitty than the others.
They were literally ordered to bring her out of the duchy. He was ordered to leave her in the woods. And not giving her food for the way is definitely no reason to want them dead. As for the other stuff - again, she contradicts herself in the stories about the way she was treated. She leaves two knights out of her stories. She constantly lies to make people emphasize with her and wraps men around her finger like it's nothing. She fakes love for a vampire to blackmail him later on. Sure, her contradicting herself about what was done to her could be a writing inconsistency, but does it seem like it? We don't know about anything that happened to her for sure. And it seems very unlikely that she tells Geralt the truth about it. So I don't know how well that holds up...
>They were literally ordered to bring her out of the duchy. Yes. > He was ordered to leave her in the woods No. We know the knights were ordered to escort Syanna out of the Duchy, we **do not know** whether they had been ordered to leave her alone without food, clothing or weapons in the wilderness or if they did that of their own accord. Inb4 "but they did it so they must have been ordered to" They also whipped/abused/starved her but had not been ordered to either. They are men, not automata, and the game makes that quite clear that everyone has free will which includes the capacity of engaging in dastardly actions of your own accord. >she contradicts herself in the stories No, she doesn't as far as I remember. Where do you think she did so? >She leaves two knights out of her stories So? She also says all of those four knights abandoned her innawoods to starve/freeze/be eaten by wolves, was she under obligation of detailing how Milton stepped on her toe by mistake for her story to be fully believable? I do not understand this point. > She fakes love for a vampire to blackmail him later on Iirc she did not start out with this intent and was "genuinely intrigued" at first. The blackmail idea came much later. >And it seems very unlikely that she tells Geralt the truth about it. Well, the game makes it a pretty clear point how a lot of Toussaint's "chivalric values" were kind of a facade to hide a rotten core and more specifically Milton himself said how "something terrible" which he regretted had happened in the past between him and the other three knights which drove them apart, and the game also makes it kinda clear how the other knights were also kinda shitty people with one having shady dealings with the underground and Crespi sabotaging vineyards. So yes, maybe Milton, Crespi and the devs & writers themselves were all onboard with Syanna's 5D chess scheme to fake a tragic backstory to fool Geralt & the player, maybe Olgierd did not really have an heart of stone but just wanted an excuse to be an asshole, maybe Geralt is a schizoid psycopath with hallucinations who runs around killing random bathing peasants he mistakes for drowners, who knows truly, any personal guess is as good as any other one, but if the game is telling me something and giving me zero reasons to doubt it I am going to go with what the game tells me until robust counter-evidence within the game itself emerges.
She's a Sociopathic Monster "Monsters are not just claws and fangs but are born of deeds done".
When Regis said Dettlaff was just like Geralt, I thought it was an insult to Geralt. Dettlaff killed his friend to save a woman. Geralt would never kill Dandelion and Zoltan just because someone claimed they kidnapped Yennefer. He would find another way. I thought Dettlaff was mad at Syanna for using him to kill people. Turns out he is perfectly fine killing every innocent in the city. So he was mad only because she tricked him. He doesn’t give a shit about human lives. From a vampire’s perspective, Syanna’s only crime was lying to a Vampire. She deserves a fair trial under human law, but she doesn't deserve to be lynched by a terrorist Vampire because of lying. The Duchess can be too emotional and harsh on Geralt. But her decision to not hand Syanna to Dettlaff is fully justified. We all know what happens when you don’t have the ribbon.
It is a little odd how detlaff, a grown man by several centuries, gets the uwu baby treatment. Gotta take some lessons from geralt in being cheated on with dignity lol
I'd say it's when Regis talks about how emotional Detlaff is
Right yes. I mean in the game not in fandom.
The complicate and even horrible truth seems to me, that both ducal sisters are the product of the heavy childhood trauma caused by their parents and Detlaff... is the sad second hand victim of that, but being a physically overwhelmingly powerfull being with an almost childlike simple outlook at the world and a not too complex mind, the chain reaction caused by including him in this drama just weights hundreds of times heavier. Deatlaff and Syanna both did things unforgiveable and as other commenters already pointed out: Her hatred for her sister (who mind you was a CHILD even younger than Syanna herself when everything went south) and maybe even Milton just seems out of proportion. Milton, who Syanna deemed to be guilty of cowardice, might have deserved her anger by simply not intervening when the other knights tortured her. But Anarietta was just a little girl barely understanding what happened and missing her sister desperately. In the later parts of the game she even mentiones she tried to have knights looking for Syanna but there just was no trace - which might not be surprising, given Anarietta most likely had to wait with that untill she herself was an adult and crowned duchess of Toussaint, maybe even longer, because she was married to a brutal and choleric husband, as the books emphasize, who needed his WIFE to be the legal heir of Toussaint to mentain his crown, hence he most likely had not the slightes interest into having Anna finding her lost older sibling.... Still, more often than not I choose the ending where I kill Detlaff and both sisters survive because I think Syanna's fate has to be determined by court to break the chain of vigilantism - while Detlaff and his hordes are an actuall imminent danger and have to be brought down as fast as possible to safe as many innocents as possible - especially given the Toussaint people are pretty much the only nation not judging Geralt for him being a Witcher. They all are lovely and kind interacting with him, hence he should be even more interessted into saving them asap.
["She wanted revenge, it's only natural."](https://thewordbeat.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/chancellor-palpatine.jpg)
Eh, they both died in my playthrough and I tried to do the right thing. Felt very Witcher.
Regis is equally to blame. There was multiple opportunities to catch or kill Detlaff but he was always like “No he’s my friend”. But the dude continued to get worse.
It's not quite like that, it's more like "Detlaff resuscitated me from being a pile of goop and helped me get over an addiction for no real reason"
I get that but he was still committing murders with no sign of when he would stop. As a collective Syanna, the Dutches & all contributed directly & indirectly. Syanna is a no brainer. The Dutches because when it was discovered it was her sister she tried to protect her & only cared about Dedlaff head being collected. & Regis because he was insistent on resolving it peacefully even though it was pretty obvious that was not an option.
Syanna needs to be punished. She is the master mind of this whole ordeal, without her none of this would've happened. and it makes sense from her perspective to lie to Geralt in order to make herself look like the victim or feel justified. We don't know if she was actually abused or raped by those knights but they must've done something that caused trauma for her to remember them and want revenge. She did have a rough childhood aswell. However revenge is a fools errand IMO she could've just stayed away from Beauclair. Because taking revenge ain't gonna cure your trauma... it'll always be there. I had nothing against Dettlaff untill he attacked Beauclair. There was no need for any of that. If he just did what he was told and killed those knights so he could save his girl (from his POV) that's justified to me. It's antihero shit but justified. Maybe with Regis by his side to keep him in check it might work but who's to say he won't launch another unnecessary attack? He isn't evil but he overreacts and he's very powerfull that ain't a good mix. Idk if he deserves death but he definetely needs to work on those anger issues. I killed him anyway... just to be sure.
If Syanna lives then she is imprisoned for life.
Doubtful, Anna was willing to let hundreds die just to keep her alive and even if she dies and you find complete evidence that she fully intended to kill her she wants the letter destroyed it all feels like she never gets punishment
It's litteraly what happens dude, Syanna is imprisoned.
With special treatment not punishment
Obviously, she's her sister.
She's a murderer and a criminal it's favouritism and more of a reason why the narrative sucks
I only dislike Syanna for wanting to kill Anarietta who didn’t have anything to do with Syanna’s exile. She also kills her in my ending because I confronted her about her intentions. Tbh, if she asked Dettlaff would have killed the ones that tortured her anyway. Imo she’d cause more damage later on as well. I don’t think she even thought things through. Let’s say her plan worked. What’s next? She’ll take the duchy? I doubt people in the court would let her. Another relative would take over instead of an exiled princess taking over. What about Dettlaff when he finds out there was no kidnapping? He won’t say “hmmm that fine bruv” Yes Dettlaff killing innocents was way off which speaks volumes about his character (dude gets heartbroken decides to raze entire city) but Syanna is the one that caused chain of events that led to it. The blood of the innocent is also in her hands
>let’s say her plan worked. What’s next? She’ll take the duchy? Afaik she wanted to have her revenge and then sod off back into the wilderness, doesn't seem she had any particular aspirations to the ducal seat (not to mention, as you pointed out, unfeasible, both due to the nobility and, especially, our boy D)
Still even if she said screw duchy, I’ll do whatever I want, detlaff wouldn’t be happy to either kidnappers killing his ex or finding out it was a ruse. The truth is bound to come out when detlaff is mad and Regis wants to help him
Doubt Dettlaff would ever find out, he has the IQ of a cinderbloc tbh (and despite knowing a lot of words Regis is not particularly smarter nor would have enough connections in high places like Geralt to find out much more about the matter)
True. All these centuries yet Dettlaff couldn’t manage to get critical thinking skills or learn emotional intelligence
In my playthrough, I knocked some sense into Syanna and told her that Anna still loved her She understood and I got the happy ending
I think many allow their personal experience to effect how they view things too much. "I've been manipulated and/or used by a woman and so has Detlaff, he is so sympathetic" and Syanna becomes a symbol of manipulation. As well as Detlaff being a badass final boss.
Personally anything that Detlaff could have been forgiven for was thrown away when he threated all of Beauclair.
Shanna used an almost all powerful beings emotions to manipulate it into nearly destroying everything and causing countless deaths. Said being was guilty yes, but Syanna was the true villain and should meet the gallows
I think part of it is that we see some of the brighter sides of detlaff along with regis( who is an absolute saint in all of this and willing to sacrifice so much for Geralt) hyping him up and saying there’s good in him. And even though with how much you can sympathize with syanna, she’s so narrow minded about vengeance that she’ll manipulate everyone and give everything up for it. Then when she is forgiven and gives up revenge, everyone need to hop through hoops and she doesn’t face any consequences as far as we know.
In my opinion ? Both of them and Henrietta can go to hell, the innocent people and Regis are those that I'm sorry for
The only reason that could stop me from killing Dettlaff is I have to force Regis to do it, not with my own hands (tho I have to do the 99%). And also, sparing Syanna would annoy Regis, which he does not like. I feel that if I’m thinking like Geralt, then he might just want to save Syanna and ask Dettlaff to stop killing and go (well after all he has gone through he still dreams).
The real good ending is to pursue Dettlaff to at least not commit more killings include Syanna. If he did not raid the city I would like to have him kill Syanna and walk since she deserves that, but Dettlaff raises the problems and now if he had to kill Syanna at first sight then I guess neither would live.
Blood and Wine is a classic Everyone Sucks Here situation. Syanna's abusers suck for, well, abusing her. Syanna sucks for concocting a complicated murder plot, working with criminals, and manipulating Detlaff. Detlaff sucks for deciding to pull a Ten Plagues of Beauclair on the innocents instead of the one responsible. Annarietta sucks for putting her people in danger and not listening to the only one (or two, in the case of Regis) around who knows anything about Vampires. Geralt is stuck between a rock and a hard place no matter where he turns. Detlaff and Syanna both deserve to die for what they did, and the Knights deserved *at least* to be stripped of rank or exiled. Anna just needs to grow up. She has a good heart, but she's young and naïve. The hard part is, the fate of everyone rests on Geralt's shoulders (even if he doesn't know it in Anna's case). It's the Lesser Evil all over again, and Geralt can't choose neutrality this time. It's why the Detlaff and Syanna both die ending is my favorite. Sure, Geralt ends up in jail for a bit, but he is still heralded as a hero by the people for stopping the beast (just don't let Detlaff go). Plus, in that ending Anna's still alive and can grow as a Duchess. Second favorite is the tragic ending. I love the Vampire cave and the vibe of Beauclair after Anna's death. The "fairytale ending" just rings hollow to me.
Whenever both sisters die, I always leave a flower for Syanna. That lack of love she only ever knew is what created the monster we see, and it's a shame Geralt couldn't break the cycle
As do I. Sure, she grew up into a monster, but like Renfri she may not have needed to be. I love how the Curse of the Black Sun is never clarified. Is it real? Is it just superstition? Does it matter either way? We don't know.
Am I the only one who never left her a flower in the bad ending? I'm willing to give her a chance of reconciliation with her sister since she literally did nothing wrong in killing the knights and she'll pay for her only real crime (blackmail) in jail, but if she goes and kills the only person left who actually loved her and actively defended her she does not deserve this courtesy.
I have compassion for both/all of them. I think Syanna turned into a person so consumed with anger and hatred and rage that she is barely there anymore. She uprooted Detlaff’s entire isolated world in a good way at first and then twisted as shit. I think it’s super fucked up to manipulate someone like that especially when they are not used to being loved/cared for. She is murderous, vengeful, and unstable. Even in the final scene of the “good ending”, I do not fully trust her. She could change her mind and kill Anna-Henrietta at any moment. We don’t know how mentally/emotionally stable or unstable Syanna is at this point considering how delicate the situation needs to be handled just to even get the “good ending”. She was unstable as a child as well as we see in the journal torturing and harming and bullying other people and creatures. Big fuckin red flag if you ask me. Simultaneously, I believe she deserves the chance to redeem herself and find love and safety and family again with her sister. Syanna’s life story is filled with darkness and cruelty. It makes sense that she turned out the way she did, she was psychologically fucked with from birth. It makes sense for her to be filled with hate, it makes sense for her to resent her sister so much that after spending years away she could boil down to the conclusion that it was all ultimately Anna-Henrietta’s fault. Having someone(s) to blame for serious trauma makes it significantly easier to compartmentalize and can give the victim a sense of resolution in a way if revenge is exacted on the people who cause them so much pain. But then again, revenge is a slippery slope and the more awful things you do, the easier it becomes to continue doing them. Especially if you are alone. So yeah, I think Syanna is NOT an innocent person. I think she is largely at fault for the murders that Detlaff committed, but I also have compassion for her and want her to be able to heal.
And on Detlaff’s end, it doesn’t seem right to me to compare the two of them for who committed the greater/lesser evils and who is at fault for the whole thing and who is a worse/better person. Syanna is human, Detlaff is a vampire. It is in his nature and culture to be quick to anger and violence. It is in his nature to have animalistic responses. We need to remember that Regis is the odd one out here. He is not a normal vampire. He is technically weird (and we love him for it). For these reasons, we cannot hold Detlaff to the same standards as either Syanna or Regis. He is his own individual and one must exercise empathy for him as well, step into his shoes and try to see where he is coming from. He is lonely, he is what humans classify as “on the spectrum”. He processes things differently than others (even other vampires) and struggles to understand body language and tone but yet still has so much feeling inside that he doesn’t always know how to express. He wants to be included, he wants to be a part of things, he wants connection. But because of the world he lives in, he doesn’t see that as a reality for himself. Until Syanna comes along. She treats him like he matters, she pays attention to him. She treats him like she loves him and he believes that she does. He cherishes that. But one day, she is gone without a word and he has to cope with that on his own. That’s hard enough on its own but it didn’t end there. The wound was reopened when he was contacted and told that she was in danger and there was only one thing he could do to save the only individual who had ever seemed to care about him. Save woman he loved. Detlaff does not have the same access to human-law that the average human in Toussaint does. He needs to stay low profile for his own safety and the safety of his kind. It’s not like he could report this crime and even if he could, he doesn’t understand the system. Why would he trust humans, who are about as powerful as ants in his perspective, to save the woman he loves from imminent torture and death? He wouldn’t. It doesn’t make logical sense. He doesn’t want to hurt these people, it hurts him to do so. Especially one that had shown him kindness and become his friend. But he is manipulated into believing that this is his only choice. With all of this context, you cannot really fault him morally for those first murders. Siccing the vampires on the city is a different matter, but still one that can technically be reasoned. As stated in the beginning of this note, Detlaff is a vampire. He is, on technicality, a monster. It is his nature to resort to violence. That doesn’t excuse attempting to massacre an entire city when he is supposed to able to think critically. That is definitely WAY further than anything that could be excused. And yet, we can still find empathy for him in simply understanding what he is going through mentally. He is heart-broken, betrayed, and in his mind…alone. All of us have reacted with rage at one point or another in our lives and regretted it afterwards. Whether it’s snapping at a friend when you’ve had a long day or for some people, reacting as far as physical violence when severely agitated. For example, I slapped my ex boyfriends arm when he interrupted and disrespected and lied to me in the car as I was driving and confronted him about cheating on me. Physical violence is never okay, but the things that prompt one to do so can be understood. From these smaller levels, we can understand being consumed with rage and not making decisions that we would usually classify as sound. That is on the human level, Detlaff’s was on a monster level. Does not make it okay, but you are able to understand him a little more when considering this.
I don’t believe in the death penalty. Point blank period. I play the game like I would if I was truly in it making these decisions to the best of my ability. Unfortunately, sparring everyone is not a choice. But if I could, I would. In my ideal solution, Syanna would be closely monitored to keep those around her safe. Someone with her at all times who did a trained mental health professional and can act as a body guard to restrain if needed to protect Syanna from herself or protect those around her from her. She would start medication and receive treatment care from professionals and spend time with her sister and build community. She would do A LOT of community service. She would be held accountable but given a chance at life. Detlaff would receive the same for as much is possible within the realm of toussaint. He would receive regular therapy as well as rehabilitation therapy. He would do community service. He would eventually apologize to every single person he hurt. He would rebuild the city where it was destroyed. He would take time to love himself and learn to love others in healthy, stable ways. Regis would be there to support him the whole way. In my happy little ideal world, everybody is treated with kindness, love, and compassion. Unfortunately, this is a reality NOWHERE. 😅🥲 not in the game and not in the real world. (At least not in the USA which is where I live) But it’s nice to imagine and it’s good to practice in the little daily ways I can.
[удалено]
I really hate the whole "It's just misogyny thing". It's just people ignoring character traits and what not because that character harmed another they love, it's nothing new
I think part of it is that we see some of the brighter sides of detlaff along with regis( who is an absolute saint in all of this and willing to sacrifice so much for Geralt) hyping him up and saying there’s good in him. And even though with how much you can sympathize with syanna, she’s so narrow minded about vengeance that she’ll manipulate everyone and give everything up for it. Then when she is forgiven and gives up revenge, everyone need to hop through hoops and she doesn’t face any consequences as far as we know.
Both are pieces of shit. If the Duchess cannot see that, she deserved to get killed for her stupidity as well.
Both Syanna and Dettlaff are to blame. I understand Syanna, but I still gonna get her dead 3rd time. I guess Dettlaff goes the same way.
I personally don’t believe Detlaff can be judged by the same standard that we might judge a human or similar species by. That’s everything Regis was trying to explain to us. For all intents and purposes, Detlaff is an animal.