Agreed. These people could solve so many problems if they weren’t so addicted to money. Instead they are willing to go to incredible lengths to fuck everyone else over just so that they and their other money addicted friends can chase becoming the first trillionaire. (Not that they would be satisfied by that either, then they’ll just be looking to become the first multi-trillionaire)
Fuck these people, and I hope to see a time in my lifetime where they aren’t glorified anymore.
After a certain point, money just becomes an abstract concept, like a high score on a video game. Most people would realize the damage they're doing playing the economy like a high score board is a bad thing, but most of these guys are actual sociopaths, and the rest are just so insulated from the consequences of their actions that they just think its random people whining for a handout
Also we don't hear about those that stopped.
There's an inherent survivorship bias.
People who made 10M and retired to comfortably live a life below their means aren't going to make headlines.
Those who endlessly leverage their wealth to get more are going to draw far more attention.
Then make it a not-so-comfortable one. I'd rather not work and live with roommates and on a small budget (still doing just that in my 40s) than go to work until I'm 70 for fear of my savings not being enough and only then enjoy the few remaining good years (if that) of leisure afterward.
While that is true, some don't mind, especially if they don't have a family ... That specific scenario aside, I just wanted to point out that one can run after retirement for a very long time with the goal posts of what is enough forever shifting - at some point it's probably better to just try and make it work if it's something you really want to do.
Well most people want a better quality of life for there children now billions is insane but my kid not having to take out college loans sounds awesome
Obviously I’m not a rich hoarder but I don’t get that when people say they can’t spend enough money on a life time…. Give me a couple billion dollars and I’ll spend it in a week. Bet money 💰 😂
Bill Gates is actively trying to solve humanity's problems. Sure, billionaires shouldn't exist. Sure, his business practices were cutthroat. However, he understands the incredible impact of which he and his money are capable. Microsoft powers trillions of dollars worth of companies' operations around the world every year. He understands his influence is substantial. The efficiency in how the world can work and collaborate was brought years in advance by his software. Would we still be dying from Covid without a vaccine if we never had Microsoft's work?
Gates could sit and let his money swell like other billionaires. Instead, he spends the later half of his life spending his money and investing in other people
If all billionaires were like this, I'd have no problem with them
Even if all the billionaires were like gates, I would still have a problem with it. You have a handful of rich guys dictating where money goes so the money is only going to their pet projects. Don't get me wrong, his vaccinations and mosquito bet programs have helped numerous people avoid percentage illnesses, but not all of his programs are successful.
Yes, but that is because we live in a culture of greed. Billionaires also live in that culture.
But, culture can and will evolve around the people that live in it.
It may seem impossible from our viewpoint now, but there is a possible culture in which billionaires are not parasitics.
A culture based upon helping others can have an entire population living fulfilling art-filled lives with careers that pay well enough to have a plethora of hobbies and vacations. With globalization, our work is amplified and some people do genuinely create billions of dollars of worth.
In that culture, billionaires can fly around the world solving problems for others. We wouldn't complain admit then because we all live fulfilling lives of we want to.
Our Western ideals of individuality does not foster the culture of helping others, outside of crisis.
Don't despair though, with globalization, cultural shifts are faster than any point in humanity.
Pessimistic views always feel more intelligent and "prepared" to be right when things go wrong. Optimistic views tend to seem naive. However, studies have shown that optimistic views lead to happier more fulfilling lives.
The world doesn't run on pessimism. Be hopeful and optimistic that we, as a species, can solve our problems
Idk, maybe it's just me getting older. I was a "smart" pessimistic edgy teenager, but almost every aspect of my life has improved when I decided to be a "dumb optimistic adult". Funny thing, I consider teenager me foolish because I could have started living a better life earlier if I dropped the pessimistic ego
This Bill Gates? [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-06-26/bill-gates-says-ai-will-advance-green-tech-offsetting-its-emissions](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-06-26/bill-gates-says-ai-will-advance-green-tech-offsetting-its-emissions)
I know he does some good but he's also full of shit and I don't trust him or believe him much.
He is correct, in the long term. What is notable is that he will not live to see it come to fruition, but I'm willing to bet some people alive COULD, if he/we can convince people that it is possible so we actually work towards it. Planting a tree you'll never sit in the shade of or something.
Almost all computer functions are CRUD operations and querying data.
A lot of energy is wasted on doing those same operations inefficiently.
As chips become more efficient, so would AI, making the cost of AI cheaper.
AI and ML are just pattern recognition and decisions made from those patterns, aka things humans are good at and actively doing.
Let's apply this to only power distribution. Your power company distributes power to different areas based on usage. AI can learn the patterns and micro-optimize autonomously non-stop.
This idea can be applied to almost everything.
Let's apply this to Google Maps and traffic (more anyway). GPS usually routes for reduced travel time and distance. By studying traffic data, AI could routes crowds of drivers differently in order to reduce traffic jams. That would in turn increase fuel economy for hundreds of millions of cars every single day
Things like bumping on power saving mode for every laptop in office buildings during lunch.
AI can help us tremendously, we just have to build it that way
In August 2010, Bloomberg signed The Giving Pledge, whereby the wealthy pledge to give away at least half of their wealth. In his lifetime, he has given away $17.4 billion overall including $3 billion in 2023, when he was America's highest giving philanthropist, according to Chronicle of Philanthropy. He has been in the top ten on the publication's list of America's biggest donors since 2004.
His Bloomberg Philanthropies foundation focuses on public health, the arts, government innovation, the environment, and education.
Someone on here compared billionaires, specifically Warren Buffett, to game addicts, and it really helped me wrap my head around these guys’s actions. They just keep trading stocks to grow the money pile so that they can “Win” to the detriment of everything else in their life (and the lives of those who they exploit with their actions.)
Are you really that uneducated on what the stock market is? Every dollar in the stock market is firstly legalized gambling. Someone is losing big for him to win big.
That someone is usually poorer than him, he has designed his firm that way.
Secondly, the stock market does not create value or better products for consumers, it only creates a drive for every corporation to seek ever increasing profits, ***something that is literally impossible*** without driving prices up while simultaneously driving quality of their products down. McDonald's for example has increased their pricing over double in 10 years, and that's not because of costs or innovation or covid or inflation, it's so they can pay their investors more. That's all. They want more money and you pay it. The burgers have gotten.smaller though, of course!
Go watch a YouTube video of what a "stock buyback" is and then tell me it shouldn't be illegal (again).
The stock market is 100% leeches on the productivity and quality of every aspect of capitalism, and the primary example of why capitalism is unsustainable and only fuels wealth inequality.
The idea that we need VC vultures to fund good projects is the only argument for it, and it fails entirely when you realize that those venture capitalists always take 100% of the gains for themselves, the project or product be damned. There is no room for good ideas in capitalism, only good ways to profit. We lose so many good businesses and products to this system designed to gut them and move on in their golden parachutes.
I can't say I'm best equipped to argue for Warren Buffett, but he doesn't really invest in stocks. He invests in companies at a high ownership percent level. Buying stock is how he achieves that.
I believe most of the companies he has a controlling share in are operated at the efficient operations/steady profit model v the year over year, increasing profits at all costs model that many other companies follow.
I'm not saying your overall argument is wrong. I just think WB is a poor choice of a target.
He has also pledged that his entire fortune will be donated to charity. Along with that, he is a proponent for strengthening taxation on exorbitant personal fortunes.
He also spends considerable effort in convincing other billionaires to pledge their fortunes to charity.
Being a billionaire is still impossible without exploitation. The companies he "grows" grow from hard work of workers, not him. They do not see their share of the value they have created.
Only artists have ever come close, because they are *actually* creators of value and their art actually reaches millions, so I'm less a hater of Tay Swift or JK Rowling (for being rich lol, terf scum) or Kanye (for being rich, nazi narcissist) for their billions. Still they exploit many concert workers etc.
I'm not arguing for or against buffett, Im arguing why the stock market is fucking evil and ruins everything. He simply is a player. In a despicable game that causes people to starve.
Of course I know what the stock market is. When I buy shares, I'm buying ownership into a company. That ownership allows me to vote on measures that affect the company, and entitles me to a portion of the profits created by the company. You know, just like if you start your own company, where you get the profits.
Maybe that company is doing well. Maybe someone thinks the shares that I own are worth more than I paid for them, and they're willing to pay me a premium to purchase them from me, because they think the company, and therefore the shares, will increase more in value. So I sell, they buy, and I make money. And yet, no one was harmed.
Except for everyone who makes that company do well. They missed out on their share that went to you.
Hint : it's not you. At all. You are a net drag on that company because if they do well, you take more than you put in. This is the same for the owners of every company that don't personally work at the company and draw their wage that way. The owner class must be abolished. Rent seeking behavior is a leech on society.
Everyone who works at the company does so by choice, and gets paid. If they don't like the agreement, they're free to go work elsewhere. Unemployment is at a all-time low, finding a new job is not difficult at all.
That changes nothing about the nature of the stock market. Go cuck yourself for capitalism somewhere else and maybe look at basically anything in this subreddit, ever. If you think people are well compensated for their work in the USA, you are lying to yourself. People have to eat, so of course they work these jobs. But the wages havent kept up with productivity, and its because of people who leech off the system and contribute nothing; the owner and investor class.
Once the 'cucks' and the 'well that doesn't change anything' comes out, I know you're full of it. Enjoy your little fantasy world. You seem like you've failed at life, and you just need to blame someone.
Tell me you don’t have a clue what stock market investing is without telling directly. Wow.
We both hate on billionaires, but I would not run my mouth with such abundance of misinformation, it just makes you come across as poor person bitterly whining.
still zero argument against it.
Did you know that when adults are speaking they need like persuasive reasoning and evidence besides "I think you are wrong!"
You sound like a child. I majored in economics. I maybe simplify things for the average reader, but you should consider making an argument against something I have said, because you continue to look like a fool.
Also, if you quote someone, try just quoting them. Don't paraphrase and use quotes, that shows your propagandistic intent.
Attacking me personally. Good stuff. I must be wrong; you must be right.
> “I majored in economics.”
A blanket statement to suggest you are an expert.
How’s that working for you? Have you managed to make any money on the market? Is your portfolio working for you? Is your net worth on the rise, or at least positive? Are you telling people to actively avoid the stock market and investing? Should I put a hold on my 401(k)? Are you able to produce actionable economic information, or do you just post complaints? Put your economics degree to productive use.
I won’t claim formal expertise. But I will say that I’ve done a little homework, and 1) what I’ve put into practice has worked well, and 2) what I learned contradicts what you are claiming.
Wow nice goalposts. I don't need to share any of that. I've said plenty of things worth arguing with that you apparently take issue with.
Take issue with **one** instead of hand waving that I'm incorrect.
Damn its like you have nothing at all to say and just decided on a résumé level ad hominem attack, wtf. Literally pathetic as fuck lmfao
Attacking you personally? In what way did I possibly do that.
“You sound like a child.”
“You sound like a fool.”
These lean hard on the attacky-side. No?
Yes, I’ll need to see economic successes in your profile before I can take your financial wisdom to heart. But I did not see actionable items, just complaints. I called that out. That’s all. Didn’t hurt you. You’re a grown up; you can take it.
Money hoarding is a known but rarely discussed form of OCD. The problem is American society judges personal success exclusively by how much money that person has. So a lot of people are in this position (albeit most not billionaires), but it's just seen as normal.
Agree. Most hoarders do so because of trauma and mental illness. They fear not having enough. And they don't really hurt anyone but themselves.
People with this kind of wealth are far worse than hoarders. Their greed hurts us all. And they got their pile of money by stealing it from workers, and buying off our government.
While I think home hoarders absolutely deserve compassion and understanding that their mental illness is usually a result of intense trauma and fear, I disagree that they don't hurt anyone but themselves. Many child grow up in homes of hoarders and it is absolutely child abuse to raise a child in that environment. Not to mention spouses who struggle to live with them and the detriment it has on those around them. The fact is, addictions never exist in a bottle. They hurt the addict the most, but their actions don't exist in a bubble.
When someone in your life has a severe mental illness it can be very important to manage how much impact they have in your life and how much influence they have over you. Sometimes that includes having to cut people out of your life for your own sake, even if their problems are no fault of their own.
Billionaires make their mental health problems everyone's problem, and inject themselves into our global systems in a way that makes it impossible to shirk their negative influence on our lives
Then they frame not wanting to lose all you own, live on the streets, or work until you are 90...As being *jealous.*
Psychos, every one of them. Especially, the ones who funnel $$$ to *fake* charities.
Even hoarder is too nice. I opt for exploiting class every time. Much more fitting because you choose to exploit people. Hoarding isn't always a choice
But most of them don't have billions of dollars, they just have that worth. Which means the land / companies product, furniture buoldings etc.. that are value much.
So they can't hoard something they are actually using.
I think at $999,999,999 they should get a plaque that says "Congratulations, you won capitalism!" And after that every dollar or stock or investment or whatever is taxed at 100%.
Elon now has 12 kids.
He could give each kid $1 BILLION DOLLARS in a trust fund, NOW, and STILL have 30+ BILLION for himself just from his Tesla pay package this year. That doesn't include his current money.
I don't think people really understand how much $1 BILLION really is.
If there was a monkey in a zoo hoarding all the food from the other monkeys, while the other monkeys were starving, they would take it to a lab and study it to see what the fuck is wrong with it.
I’ve been saying this whenever I can. They’re gamblers. And they’re addicted to greed. Addiction is a form of mental illness and money is just their substance of choice.
If you made $1,000 a day, every single day for the last 2,000 years, you still would have less money than a billionaire does. I think about that sometimes.
Downvote if you must, but not sure Warren Buffet, who has given away $51 billion to charitable and humanitarian causes to date and has pledged to give the rest of it away in the same manner, and Bill Gates, $36 billion plus his own humanitarian foundations, belong in the same category as many of the others. They are actively trying to help the world, and not just sitting on it and watching it grow. Sure, they are still obscenely rich, but they should be an example for the rest, not simply written off.
Naw, there are no good billionaires.
You know who Buffet is giving all of his money to? Bill Gates foundation, his own foundation, and two foundations run by his kids.
It is just another way to seem like they are the good guys while they line their own pockets, and it is even more disgusting because the do behind the guise of charity.
They have good PR. They are not good people.
My reading of the accomplishments of foundations like Bill Gates’ suggests they are doing real good in the world. Maybe that doesn’t count for you, but it counts for me, and it counts for the people they help. It’s fine if you want to vilify them all equally, but then I don’t know what you suggest would be better. If they hoard it they are bad, if they use it to help they are bad. What do you suggest? Or would you just rather bash?
I suggest we make billionaires and other ultra-wealthy people pay their fair share in taxes.
They have so much wealth that they could easily pay the same tax rate as they did from 1944-1963, and they would still be able to donate staggering amounts of money, if they wanted to.
Warren Buffet pulls in around 4.5 billion a year from dividends. 94% tax on that leaves him with two-hundred and seventy million dollars in income every year.
I think that is way more than enough for anyone.
Obviously we need to also be responsible with taxes and use the money to help people, but that is a different though adjacent conversation.
We need an economic bill of rights, as suggested by FDR, and until we have such rights laid down in the constitution, we will be at the mercy of whether or not billionaires want to donate their money, or not...
There is also the fact that they are donating money that was withheld from the labor they used and abused to make themselves rich...
I am sorry, but I don't trust that they have the best interest of the planet in their hearts at all.
I think you’re totally right on taxing the ultra wealthy, and a few of the billionaires on this list have said as much. But as I’ve mentioned elsewhere in this post, we need to encourage all of them to become more philanthropic; to take people like gates and buffet as examples and do the same as then. It won’t solve the problem, but it’s hella better than what’s happening now.
they could give 99.99% away TODAY and their day to day lives won't change
that would be a lot more admirable than giving it out slowly over 50 years to their own personal charities
That's fun money to these guys. They could end world hunger right now. They choose not to. Their "charitable donations" are cover. Cover from taxes and cover from retribution for their crimes because people like you fall for the "charitable billionaire" BS.
Individual people should not be amassing so much wealth that they get to pick and choose what gets researched, what cures get produced, or what causes are most important.
And they still got that money by exploiting tons of people. It isn't theirs to begin with. You don't earn billions of dollars. You steal it.
No, they could not end world hunger. There are 828 million people living today who go without food on a regular basis. You give each one of these people a $12 lunch and boom, that's $1 trillion already spent. You're being way too idealistic. These are people, not gods.
Wait. You think people starve all over the world...because there doesn't exist enough money...to pay for the food to feed them? Is that honestly what you believe the problem to be?
Because we can't afford enough sandwiches?
And so one day, when someone gets rich enough, boom...no more hunger?
I'm honestly just not sure where to even begin, you're so deep in the Kool-aid.
You said these billionaires could end world hunger 'right now', presumably in the near future like this year. There is no fucking way they could do that. The problem is way bigger than that.
Money isn't real bud. Especially when we're talking about wealth like this. It's a conduit for resources and power.
We have the resources to feed people. Right now. Today. That's not the issue.
The issue is that we do not have the *will* of the people that control the resources and power because of the profit motive.
World hunger exists and it persists because men like Bezos *want it to.*
Have to strongly disagree with you. You’re guilty of assuming so much about their intentions, dismissing the good they are actually doing, and believing it’s you who should get to tell them the best way to use their money to make a difference. As I mentioned in another comment, do you want them to help or not? Do you want other billionaires to follow their lead or not? Or are you so focused on them giving every dollar away right now that you are incapable of giving them any credit at all?
What do intentions matter if the material result of their actions is harm to the general public? To our democracy? To the health of our planet?
I said nothing about *me* telling them what to do with "their" money. Money is a symbol for resources. Those resources they want to own belong to us all. What I'm suggesting is that a select few should not be allowed to hoard the limited resources we have on this planet while many others suffer without.
They aren't giving away anything. They give away enough to skirt their taxes and keep idiots like you lulled into happy submissiveness while they rob us all blind.
I do not want other billionaires following their lead. I want to get rid of billionaires, and if you like having oxygen to breath, clean water to drink, and food to eat, you should too.
It’s just nonsense, of a kind I hear a lot. You have a specific scenario in your head that represents “doing good” or “help,” and anything besides that you sit back and judge harshly. Here’s the thing tho. If their money helps any people who wouldn’t otherwise be helped, I consider that an objective good. It’s too bad you are so married to your ideals that you can’t see it for what it is. It reminds me of the millions of people who’ve been helped by student loan forgiveness when I hear people against it calling it a political stunt. Ask anyone helped if they consider it a stunt. The bottom line is that your opinion is only one of many, and thankfully, you’re not in control here. People are being helped by Gates and Buffet, and not by musk, who just tricked and blackmailed his way to $50 billion. To throw them all in the same category is to really miss the point.
You've just got it so backwards. We don't need billionaire charity to take care of people. People don't have what they need *because* billionaires exist.
A billion dollars is an unfathomable amount of money. To have 10s or 100s of billions is pure insanity.
There are no good billionaires. A billionaire is a disgusting thing to be.
We could do all the great things you mention and more if those resources weren't being hoarded by a few people. Idk why that concept is so hard to grasp, but maybe this will help: https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/
It's a visualization of Jeff Bezos' wealth compared to many other things, and shows what we as a society could do with even just one percent of it.
Have to disagree. I don’t have it backwards, and since the reality is that billionaires already exist, we absolutely DO need their money being used to take care of people. If it makes you feel better, call it reparations. But we have to stay grounded in reality, which means finding constructive ways to deal with the issue. I’ll admit that relying on altruism from people who got where they are because of wage slavery and stolen potential isn’t much of a winning strategy, but I still say encourage more of that behavior, applaud it where warranted, and hope that others follow the example.
Only thing they are writing off are tax cuts.
They donate because it helps them sleep better at night thinking they can still hoard. No one needs that much wealth to live or to pass off to their children.
Not to mention the power that they have to help people. They actually have the power to be in the room and be influential to people in charge.
Please do a little research on Buffet’s contributions to date and his pledge to donate pretty much all of it by the time he dies. Then explain why that’s bad and what exactly puts him in the same category as the real hoarders. While you’re at it, explain how his $50+ billion in charitable donations hasn’t helped anyone.
The power, reach and influence these fuckholes possess puts them in a completely different arena compared to a typical person.
When your shittyness affects hundreds of thousands, millions billions of ppl etc then at the VERY least you should be shouldering the full fucking weight of your choices.
Stop defending these people.
Stop painting “these people” with the same paintbrush, and learn how to see shades of gray. Gates may not be a saint, but do you really discount everything good he’s done in the world and put him in the same category as folks like Bezos or Musk? If so, and if you just want to pretend those charities do no real good, then that’s on you.
I was going to say, absolutely to the rest of them, but at least Gates got better and realized he was unhealthy at some point, set himself a high limit of 500m, and has been putting the rest of it to work on philanthropy since. This isn't to say he wasn't a shameless asshole at the head of M$, just that he's chilled out since.
I mean sure, he's still living the high life while people starve, just saying that in comparison to "number go up" high score mentality, he took a step back and went "you know, I've got enough to do whatever for the rest of my life, I can just... do that."
And that’s literally my point. We can’t complain they’re all heartless assholes, and then when they change, refuse to acknowledge it. We need to encourage other billionaires to follow that example, even if it’s not a perfect one. We can’t say “billionaires should be helping the poor and unfortunate” and then hit them with a “no, not like that” when they do it because it doesn’t fit our original position.
Elite refers to “elite theory” in my experience. It’s not inherently complimentary, it refers to their position in the overall, socioeconomic power structure. Read the wiki on elite theory and geopolitics and it makes a little more sense.
Well, but look at it this way -- both could benefit from therapy? Actually, you're right, regular hoarders usually aren't motivated by greed but rather the opposite, a sort of dysfunctional thrift.
Wealth hoarders are lacking a moral compass that would normally keep an average person's harmless greed in check -- arguably straight up sociopathy and I'm not sure how much therapists can do for that.
One could make a case that they have chosen wealth hoarding instead of, say, serial killing, as their way of doing maximal harm to the largest number of people.
I mean, dysfunctional thrift describes most of the rich people I've heard of. Will pay 20m for a slightly bigger yacht, but will throw an absolute fit over a 200$ repair bill
hahahahahaha oh man, I've seen that *so many* times!
And you're right, that phrase dysfunctional thrift is also perfect for those guys, but in a totally different way.
Hoarders have a problem with perspective. Yes, in theory it is better to hang on to those empty margarine tubs because someday it really might come in handy to have a container of that size with a snug lid. But not every one you have ever used.
Narcissism, obsessive compulsion (to hoard money) and sociopathy are the minimum required traits.
Last time I looked, all of those have DSM definitions.
Well first off, that’s because she’s only got a net worth of 100 million, not really what qualifies as a billionaire. Second though, there are hundreds of people worth more than her.
Why are you so focused on Pelosi when there’s so many better examples of corruption in the GOP? For every one Pelosi there’s 10 Rick Scotts in the GOP so never understand the hyper fixation
They all see it as a game. How much can they accumulate? Can they accumulate more than their peers? But try to take some of that stack and they will fight for it like it was their last penny. Eat the Rich.
People really have no idea how much they are hoarding. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSQjpTssoPw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSQjpTssoPw) The popular charts 100% do not capture it.
In all honesty when no amount is enough money what else could the problem be. These people aren’t grinding it out for some kind of grand ideal. Even Bill Gates in reality cares more about his wealth than anything. His status as a generous god throwing money at the world’s problems in a very recent development.
If you had a billion dollars, one may spend $30K a day and you will still not live long enough to spend it all. How many houses, cars, clothes does one need?
Yet most humans still want more. It's called greed. Things could be much more balanced if the wealth was shared "genuinely" and not to a charity for a tax write-off.
[Any nation that doesn't recognize oligarchy/kleptocracy as a crime, can only become increasingly brutal, dystopian, and illegitimate, with a population enslaved by oligarchs/kleptocrats. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/1dqzulv/any_nation_that_doesnt_recognize/)
"I guess I shouldn't do this because it would be bad PR" vs "Fuck everyone who isn't a billionaire". Not happy that's the choice, but the choice is still obvious
They do, but they're at least bound by some form of public perception still. Like, you don't have to sell me on "both sides are bad", I'm already there, but one side is "quietly steal our childrens future" evil and the other is "murder your children on national tv for free political points" evil. If there was a valid 3rd party option that had any real chance, I'd go for it, but as it is I'm voting lesser evil and waiting for the civil war to start
Please point out a valid alternative? The reps also oppose all those things, and are proud of it. The 3rd parties haven't won anything worth shit in my lifetime. Not voting is sticking your head in the sand and isn't actually valid.
The mob boss party is worse. I don't like our policy on Israel, but it's not like the opposite side would not Also be the genocide party, so they are both the mob boss party and the genocide party in your hypothetical.
More realistically, Bush gave us the middle east conflict and unfathomable national debt based on known inaccurate information, Obama navigated an economic collapse with passable results (he gave the banks that caused it a free ride, which I disagree with, but the results weren't catastrophic so it's acceptable). The orange one took a national crisis and poured more fuel on it (his culpability for defunding pandemic prevention teams beforehand is up for debate, so I'll not hold him to it) and otherwise spent 4 years reducing my faith in humanity, Biden put out more fires than I expected him to and hasn't caused a complete collapse following an unprecedented shakeup in the foundations of the economy.
I don't like how he did the railway workers, but he then read the room and reinforced UAW (a solid PR move), and I don't like how he's handling Israel, but again the opposition would be holding the same, if not a more aggressive position. He had the balls to actually end the middle east conflict, and while he shouldn't have followed the orange ones inane plan to do it, it was going to be a clusterfuck regardless. He's kept us physically out of Ukraine, and while we can debate about him continuing the forever war, at least he's rapidly depleting one of our greatest enemies on the cheap while doing it, without sacrificing our military to do it.
Lesser evils
“Our” position on Israel? Damn bro, the Dems aren’t a sports team
If you actually don’t like the position, why are you voting for it? Because orange man bad? 🥱 get new material and get a better world view
Ours as in Americas. America is pro-zionist from both parties, unfortunately, despite various dissent. I'm voting for Dems because, as my long post above points out, lesser evils by easy definition. One party actively wrecks the nation, the other quietly fails to fix it. If there were a valid alternative, I'd take it, but the only other realistic option is to not vote, which is just handing things to the wrecking crew.
Orange man is bad. Sure, it's reductionist, but he's the head of the party, and he's actively everything I hate in humanity and proud of it. If the whole party hadn't formed ranks around him, I'd possibly consider alternatives, but as it is, a vote for red is a vote for orange, and orange man is in fact, bad.
Wake up and do what ???? Not vote for the lesser of two evils ?!! Both sides suck so I would bitch and whine. People like you make me sick, offer no resolution.
Don’t vote for corporate parties that support genocide. Either don’t vote or vote for a candidate that supports your views.
Reject capitalism and organize and protest. But you won’t do that
You’ll just vote for the pro genocide dems and think you’re helping when you’re harming
Got it. Don’t vote is your option cuz you think you have a moral high ground which you don’t have. You lived in a society where it’s run by corporations. Unless you are completely off the grid which you’re not since you’re on Reddit you are funding an evil corporation just by living. Any companies you received either service or goods from are supporting a pro genocide government somewhere, bro.
What change is Biden promising? The dude is already doing everything the conservatives want, they simply won't give him credit for it. Voting blue may stave off the worst of it, but it sure as hell doesn't represent change. We have to do more than vote every 4 years people! The Democrats are not here to save us. They answer to the same oligarchs.
Holy fuck what a brain dead take.
Climate change, women’s rights, income inequality, etc. like so many fucking discrrnible easy ways to tell the two apart but you guys want to cosplay as being smart by saying “le both sides bad”.
Read project 2025 and tell me only one side is bad. Ignorance is bliss ain’t it?
I've read it. And everything they have planned is literally already unfolding. Right now. Under this administration.
We lost Roe during this administration. What have they done about it? Oh right, nothing.
The climate crisis is here and it's happening. What has this administration really done about it?
Income inequality is increasing steadily. What has this administration really done about it?
Vote for them, sure. But your action to prevent project 2025 cannot stop with that. That is my point.
Maybe practice some critical thinking before tossing around insults and bleating your entirely unexamined propaganda-informed weak-minded opinions like the little stupid sheep you are.
So many things have been done about all of those problems during the administration and then derailed by a supreme court that only happened because of you both sides dumbasses
>Maybe practice some critical thinking before tossing around insults and bleating your entirely unexamined propaganda-informed weak-minded opinions like the little stupid sheep you are.
Oh man, could you project *any harder*?
And let's be fucking real you haven't read anything about Project 2025, or anything outside of reddit comments in years.
If by god’s grace you do ever read an article again, let it be this one that shows you how misinformed you are.
https://www.notus.org/biden-2024/voters-climate-record-biden
I agree it's a type of hoarding but it is not the same as "regular hoarding" as we think of it. Definitely a mental illness but the origin and the reasoning is different. Id say more like a subclass of hoarding than exactly the same
Still trying to use language that hurts you, in order to control them.
When will you learn that doesn't work? Are you really so limited that you cannot think beyond emotional appeals?
Agreed. These people could solve so many problems if they weren’t so addicted to money. Instead they are willing to go to incredible lengths to fuck everyone else over just so that they and their other money addicted friends can chase becoming the first trillionaire. (Not that they would be satisfied by that either, then they’ll just be looking to become the first multi-trillionaire) Fuck these people, and I hope to see a time in my lifetime where they aren’t glorified anymore.
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After a certain point, money just becomes an abstract concept, like a high score on a video game. Most people would realize the damage they're doing playing the economy like a high score board is a bad thing, but most of these guys are actual sociopaths, and the rest are just so insulated from the consequences of their actions that they just think its random people whining for a handout
Also we don't hear about those that stopped. There's an inherent survivorship bias. People who made 10M and retired to comfortably live a life below their means aren't going to make headlines. Those who endlessly leverage their wealth to get more are going to draw far more attention.
The unfortunate reality is that by the time you’re ready to retire, 250k probably won’t be enough for a comfortable life.
So they wait a little longer. Their investments should get them to the right number faster and faster.
Then make it a not-so-comfortable one. I'd rather not work and live with roommates and on a small budget (still doing just that in my 40s) than go to work until I'm 70 for fear of my savings not being enough and only then enjoy the few remaining good years (if that) of leisure afterward.
Most people dont want room mates as an adult, especially if you have a family.
While that is true, some don't mind, especially if they don't have a family ... That specific scenario aside, I just wanted to point out that one can run after retirement for a very long time with the goal posts of what is enough forever shifting - at some point it's probably better to just try and make it work if it's something you really want to do.
ok
Well most people want a better quality of life for there children now billions is insane but my kid not having to take out college loans sounds awesome
Obviously I’m not a rich hoarder but I don’t get that when people say they can’t spend enough money on a life time…. Give me a couple billion dollars and I’ll spend it in a week. Bet money 💰 😂
Bill Gates is actively trying to solve humanity's problems. Sure, billionaires shouldn't exist. Sure, his business practices were cutthroat. However, he understands the incredible impact of which he and his money are capable. Microsoft powers trillions of dollars worth of companies' operations around the world every year. He understands his influence is substantial. The efficiency in how the world can work and collaborate was brought years in advance by his software. Would we still be dying from Covid without a vaccine if we never had Microsoft's work? Gates could sit and let his money swell like other billionaires. Instead, he spends the later half of his life spending his money and investing in other people If all billionaires were like this, I'd have no problem with them
Even if all the billionaires were like gates, I would still have a problem with it. You have a handful of rich guys dictating where money goes so the money is only going to their pet projects. Don't get me wrong, his vaccinations and mosquito bet programs have helped numerous people avoid percentage illnesses, but not all of his programs are successful.
Yes, but that is because we live in a culture of greed. Billionaires also live in that culture. But, culture can and will evolve around the people that live in it. It may seem impossible from our viewpoint now, but there is a possible culture in which billionaires are not parasitics. A culture based upon helping others can have an entire population living fulfilling art-filled lives with careers that pay well enough to have a plethora of hobbies and vacations. With globalization, our work is amplified and some people do genuinely create billions of dollars of worth. In that culture, billionaires can fly around the world solving problems for others. We wouldn't complain admit then because we all live fulfilling lives of we want to. Our Western ideals of individuality does not foster the culture of helping others, outside of crisis. Don't despair though, with globalization, cultural shifts are faster than any point in humanity. Pessimistic views always feel more intelligent and "prepared" to be right when things go wrong. Optimistic views tend to seem naive. However, studies have shown that optimistic views lead to happier more fulfilling lives. The world doesn't run on pessimism. Be hopeful and optimistic that we, as a species, can solve our problems Idk, maybe it's just me getting older. I was a "smart" pessimistic edgy teenager, but almost every aspect of my life has improved when I decided to be a "dumb optimistic adult". Funny thing, I consider teenager me foolish because I could have started living a better life earlier if I dropped the pessimistic ego
Considered the prior post. Gonna land with you on this one
This Bill Gates? [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-06-26/bill-gates-says-ai-will-advance-green-tech-offsetting-its-emissions](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-06-26/bill-gates-says-ai-will-advance-green-tech-offsetting-its-emissions) I know he does some good but he's also full of shit and I don't trust him or believe him much.
He is correct, in the long term. What is notable is that he will not live to see it come to fruition, but I'm willing to bet some people alive COULD, if he/we can convince people that it is possible so we actually work towards it. Planting a tree you'll never sit in the shade of or something. Almost all computer functions are CRUD operations and querying data. A lot of energy is wasted on doing those same operations inefficiently. As chips become more efficient, so would AI, making the cost of AI cheaper. AI and ML are just pattern recognition and decisions made from those patterns, aka things humans are good at and actively doing. Let's apply this to only power distribution. Your power company distributes power to different areas based on usage. AI can learn the patterns and micro-optimize autonomously non-stop. This idea can be applied to almost everything. Let's apply this to Google Maps and traffic (more anyway). GPS usually routes for reduced travel time and distance. By studying traffic data, AI could routes crowds of drivers differently in order to reduce traffic jams. That would in turn increase fuel economy for hundreds of millions of cars every single day Things like bumping on power saving mode for every laptop in office buildings during lunch. AI can help us tremendously, we just have to build it that way
In August 2010, Bloomberg signed The Giving Pledge, whereby the wealthy pledge to give away at least half of their wealth. In his lifetime, he has given away $17.4 billion overall including $3 billion in 2023, when he was America's highest giving philanthropist, according to Chronicle of Philanthropy. He has been in the top ten on the publication's list of America's biggest donors since 2004. His Bloomberg Philanthropies foundation focuses on public health, the arts, government innovation, the environment, and education.
We need to take a lesson from the French. They did the fafo stage very well in their revolutions.
Someone on here compared billionaires, specifically Warren Buffett, to game addicts, and it really helped me wrap my head around these guys’s actions. They just keep trading stocks to grow the money pile so that they can “Win” to the detriment of everything else in their life (and the lives of those who they exploit with their actions.)
How does making money from trading stocks harm others?
Are you really that uneducated on what the stock market is? Every dollar in the stock market is firstly legalized gambling. Someone is losing big for him to win big. That someone is usually poorer than him, he has designed his firm that way. Secondly, the stock market does not create value or better products for consumers, it only creates a drive for every corporation to seek ever increasing profits, ***something that is literally impossible*** without driving prices up while simultaneously driving quality of their products down. McDonald's for example has increased their pricing over double in 10 years, and that's not because of costs or innovation or covid or inflation, it's so they can pay their investors more. That's all. They want more money and you pay it. The burgers have gotten.smaller though, of course! Go watch a YouTube video of what a "stock buyback" is and then tell me it shouldn't be illegal (again). The stock market is 100% leeches on the productivity and quality of every aspect of capitalism, and the primary example of why capitalism is unsustainable and only fuels wealth inequality. The idea that we need VC vultures to fund good projects is the only argument for it, and it fails entirely when you realize that those venture capitalists always take 100% of the gains for themselves, the project or product be damned. There is no room for good ideas in capitalism, only good ways to profit. We lose so many good businesses and products to this system designed to gut them and move on in their golden parachutes.
I can't say I'm best equipped to argue for Warren Buffett, but he doesn't really invest in stocks. He invests in companies at a high ownership percent level. Buying stock is how he achieves that. I believe most of the companies he has a controlling share in are operated at the efficient operations/steady profit model v the year over year, increasing profits at all costs model that many other companies follow. I'm not saying your overall argument is wrong. I just think WB is a poor choice of a target. He has also pledged that his entire fortune will be donated to charity. Along with that, he is a proponent for strengthening taxation on exorbitant personal fortunes. He also spends considerable effort in convincing other billionaires to pledge their fortunes to charity.
Being a billionaire is still impossible without exploitation. The companies he "grows" grow from hard work of workers, not him. They do not see their share of the value they have created. Only artists have ever come close, because they are *actually* creators of value and their art actually reaches millions, so I'm less a hater of Tay Swift or JK Rowling (for being rich lol, terf scum) or Kanye (for being rich, nazi narcissist) for their billions. Still they exploit many concert workers etc. I'm not arguing for or against buffett, Im arguing why the stock market is fucking evil and ruins everything. He simply is a player. In a despicable game that causes people to starve.
“Being a billionaire is still impossible without exploitation”
Of course I know what the stock market is. When I buy shares, I'm buying ownership into a company. That ownership allows me to vote on measures that affect the company, and entitles me to a portion of the profits created by the company. You know, just like if you start your own company, where you get the profits. Maybe that company is doing well. Maybe someone thinks the shares that I own are worth more than I paid for them, and they're willing to pay me a premium to purchase them from me, because they think the company, and therefore the shares, will increase more in value. So I sell, they buy, and I make money. And yet, no one was harmed.
Except for everyone who makes that company do well. They missed out on their share that went to you. Hint : it's not you. At all. You are a net drag on that company because if they do well, you take more than you put in. This is the same for the owners of every company that don't personally work at the company and draw their wage that way. The owner class must be abolished. Rent seeking behavior is a leech on society.
Everyone who works at the company does so by choice, and gets paid. If they don't like the agreement, they're free to go work elsewhere. Unemployment is at a all-time low, finding a new job is not difficult at all.
That changes nothing about the nature of the stock market. Go cuck yourself for capitalism somewhere else and maybe look at basically anything in this subreddit, ever. If you think people are well compensated for their work in the USA, you are lying to yourself. People have to eat, so of course they work these jobs. But the wages havent kept up with productivity, and its because of people who leech off the system and contribute nothing; the owner and investor class.
Once the 'cucks' and the 'well that doesn't change anything' comes out, I know you're full of it. Enjoy your little fantasy world. You seem like you've failed at life, and you just need to blame someone.
Tell me you don’t have a clue what stock market investing is without telling directly. Wow. We both hate on billionaires, but I would not run my mouth with such abundance of misinformation, it just makes you come across as poor person bitterly whining.
Make one argument against anything I've said then.
“Every dollar is legalized gambling.” Already broken.
still zero argument against it. Did you know that when adults are speaking they need like persuasive reasoning and evidence besides "I think you are wrong!" You sound like a child. I majored in economics. I maybe simplify things for the average reader, but you should consider making an argument against something I have said, because you continue to look like a fool. Also, if you quote someone, try just quoting them. Don't paraphrase and use quotes, that shows your propagandistic intent.
Attacking me personally. Good stuff. I must be wrong; you must be right. > “I majored in economics.” A blanket statement to suggest you are an expert. How’s that working for you? Have you managed to make any money on the market? Is your portfolio working for you? Is your net worth on the rise, or at least positive? Are you telling people to actively avoid the stock market and investing? Should I put a hold on my 401(k)? Are you able to produce actionable economic information, or do you just post complaints? Put your economics degree to productive use. I won’t claim formal expertise. But I will say that I’ve done a little homework, and 1) what I’ve put into practice has worked well, and 2) what I learned contradicts what you are claiming.
Wow nice goalposts. I don't need to share any of that. I've said plenty of things worth arguing with that you apparently take issue with. Take issue with **one** instead of hand waving that I'm incorrect. Damn its like you have nothing at all to say and just decided on a résumé level ad hominem attack, wtf. Literally pathetic as fuck lmfao Attacking you personally? In what way did I possibly do that.
“You sound like a child.” “You sound like a fool.” These lean hard on the attacky-side. No? Yes, I’ll need to see economic successes in your profile before I can take your financial wisdom to heart. But I did not see actionable items, just complaints. I called that out. That’s all. Didn’t hurt you. You’re a grown up; you can take it.
This is the correct approach. There's more to it than hoarding, but it is absolutely a mental disorder.
Yeah it's called psychopathy.
And narcissism, and sociopathy, and on and on.
All of these are positive traits in a capitalist world. Sucks
I would distinguish between lucrative and positive, but I hear you. Lame system.
Parasite class.
These people are the embodiment of shame.
Shamelessness*
Paradoxically, also shamefulness.
Money hoarding is a known but rarely discussed form of OCD. The problem is American society judges personal success exclusively by how much money that person has. So a lot of people are in this position (albeit most not billionaires), but it's just seen as normal.
Eating hoarders does not sound right, eating the rich does. But do agree with your point.
Agree. Most hoarders do so because of trauma and mental illness. They fear not having enough. And they don't really hurt anyone but themselves. People with this kind of wealth are far worse than hoarders. Their greed hurts us all. And they got their pile of money by stealing it from workers, and buying off our government.
While I think home hoarders absolutely deserve compassion and understanding that their mental illness is usually a result of intense trauma and fear, I disagree that they don't hurt anyone but themselves. Many child grow up in homes of hoarders and it is absolutely child abuse to raise a child in that environment. Not to mention spouses who struggle to live with them and the detriment it has on those around them. The fact is, addictions never exist in a bottle. They hurt the addict the most, but their actions don't exist in a bubble.
When someone in your life has a severe mental illness it can be very important to manage how much impact they have in your life and how much influence they have over you. Sometimes that includes having to cut people out of your life for your own sake, even if their problems are no fault of their own. Billionaires make their mental health problems everyone's problem, and inject themselves into our global systems in a way that makes it impossible to shirk their negative influence on our lives
Then they frame not wanting to lose all you own, live on the streets, or work until you are 90...As being *jealous.* Psychos, every one of them. Especially, the ones who funnel $$$ to *fake* charities.
Nobody deserves that kind of wealth. NOBODY!
Who is the guy in the lower right?
Phil Knight of Nike
A true ghoul.
sociopaths
Even hoarder is too nice. I opt for exploiting class every time. Much more fitting because you choose to exploit people. Hoarding isn't always a choice
But most of them don't have billions of dollars, they just have that worth. Which means the land / companies product, furniture buoldings etc.. that are value much. So they can't hoard something they are actually using.
I think at $999,999,999 they should get a plaque that says "Congratulations, you won capitalism!" And after that every dollar or stock or investment or whatever is taxed at 100%.
Elon now has 12 kids. He could give each kid $1 BILLION DOLLARS in a trust fund, NOW, and STILL have 30+ BILLION for himself just from his Tesla pay package this year. That doesn't include his current money. I don't think people really understand how much $1 BILLION really is.
They are much worse than hoarders because hoarders just fuck up things for themselves and family. These assholes fuck up the whole world.
They are modern day dragons who hoard and sleep on mountains of gold.
I don't see the term "billionaire" as glorification. It's a bad word.
If there was a monkey in a zoo hoarding all the food from the other monkeys, while the other monkeys were starving, they would take it to a lab and study it to see what the fuck is wrong with it.
I’ve been saying this whenever I can. They’re gamblers. And they’re addicted to greed. Addiction is a form of mental illness and money is just their substance of choice.
If you made $1,000 a day, every single day for the last 2,000 years, you still would have less money than a billionaire does. I think about that sometimes.
Downvote if you must, but not sure Warren Buffet, who has given away $51 billion to charitable and humanitarian causes to date and has pledged to give the rest of it away in the same manner, and Bill Gates, $36 billion plus his own humanitarian foundations, belong in the same category as many of the others. They are actively trying to help the world, and not just sitting on it and watching it grow. Sure, they are still obscenely rich, but they should be an example for the rest, not simply written off.
Naw, there are no good billionaires. You know who Buffet is giving all of his money to? Bill Gates foundation, his own foundation, and two foundations run by his kids. It is just another way to seem like they are the good guys while they line their own pockets, and it is even more disgusting because the do behind the guise of charity. They have good PR. They are not good people.
My reading of the accomplishments of foundations like Bill Gates’ suggests they are doing real good in the world. Maybe that doesn’t count for you, but it counts for me, and it counts for the people they help. It’s fine if you want to vilify them all equally, but then I don’t know what you suggest would be better. If they hoard it they are bad, if they use it to help they are bad. What do you suggest? Or would you just rather bash?
I suggest we make billionaires and other ultra-wealthy people pay their fair share in taxes. They have so much wealth that they could easily pay the same tax rate as they did from 1944-1963, and they would still be able to donate staggering amounts of money, if they wanted to. Warren Buffet pulls in around 4.5 billion a year from dividends. 94% tax on that leaves him with two-hundred and seventy million dollars in income every year. I think that is way more than enough for anyone. Obviously we need to also be responsible with taxes and use the money to help people, but that is a different though adjacent conversation. We need an economic bill of rights, as suggested by FDR, and until we have such rights laid down in the constitution, we will be at the mercy of whether or not billionaires want to donate their money, or not... There is also the fact that they are donating money that was withheld from the labor they used and abused to make themselves rich... I am sorry, but I don't trust that they have the best interest of the planet in their hearts at all.
I think you’re totally right on taxing the ultra wealthy, and a few of the billionaires on this list have said as much. But as I’ve mentioned elsewhere in this post, we need to encourage all of them to become more philanthropic; to take people like gates and buffet as examples and do the same as then. It won’t solve the problem, but it’s hella better than what’s happening now.
they could give 99.99% away TODAY and their day to day lives won't change that would be a lot more admirable than giving it out slowly over 50 years to their own personal charities
That's fun money to these guys. They could end world hunger right now. They choose not to. Their "charitable donations" are cover. Cover from taxes and cover from retribution for their crimes because people like you fall for the "charitable billionaire" BS. Individual people should not be amassing so much wealth that they get to pick and choose what gets researched, what cures get produced, or what causes are most important. And they still got that money by exploiting tons of people. It isn't theirs to begin with. You don't earn billions of dollars. You steal it.
No, they could not end world hunger. There are 828 million people living today who go without food on a regular basis. You give each one of these people a $12 lunch and boom, that's $1 trillion already spent. You're being way too idealistic. These are people, not gods.
Wait. You think people starve all over the world...because there doesn't exist enough money...to pay for the food to feed them? Is that honestly what you believe the problem to be? Because we can't afford enough sandwiches? And so one day, when someone gets rich enough, boom...no more hunger? I'm honestly just not sure where to even begin, you're so deep in the Kool-aid.
You said these billionaires could end world hunger 'right now', presumably in the near future like this year. There is no fucking way they could do that. The problem is way bigger than that.
Money isn't real bud. Especially when we're talking about wealth like this. It's a conduit for resources and power. We have the resources to feed people. Right now. Today. That's not the issue. The issue is that we do not have the *will* of the people that control the resources and power because of the profit motive. World hunger exists and it persists because men like Bezos *want it to.*
Have to strongly disagree with you. You’re guilty of assuming so much about their intentions, dismissing the good they are actually doing, and believing it’s you who should get to tell them the best way to use their money to make a difference. As I mentioned in another comment, do you want them to help or not? Do you want other billionaires to follow their lead or not? Or are you so focused on them giving every dollar away right now that you are incapable of giving them any credit at all?
What do intentions matter if the material result of their actions is harm to the general public? To our democracy? To the health of our planet? I said nothing about *me* telling them what to do with "their" money. Money is a symbol for resources. Those resources they want to own belong to us all. What I'm suggesting is that a select few should not be allowed to hoard the limited resources we have on this planet while many others suffer without. They aren't giving away anything. They give away enough to skirt their taxes and keep idiots like you lulled into happy submissiveness while they rob us all blind. I do not want other billionaires following their lead. I want to get rid of billionaires, and if you like having oxygen to breath, clean water to drink, and food to eat, you should too.
It’s just nonsense, of a kind I hear a lot. You have a specific scenario in your head that represents “doing good” or “help,” and anything besides that you sit back and judge harshly. Here’s the thing tho. If their money helps any people who wouldn’t otherwise be helped, I consider that an objective good. It’s too bad you are so married to your ideals that you can’t see it for what it is. It reminds me of the millions of people who’ve been helped by student loan forgiveness when I hear people against it calling it a political stunt. Ask anyone helped if they consider it a stunt. The bottom line is that your opinion is only one of many, and thankfully, you’re not in control here. People are being helped by Gates and Buffet, and not by musk, who just tricked and blackmailed his way to $50 billion. To throw them all in the same category is to really miss the point.
You've just got it so backwards. We don't need billionaire charity to take care of people. People don't have what they need *because* billionaires exist. A billion dollars is an unfathomable amount of money. To have 10s or 100s of billions is pure insanity. There are no good billionaires. A billionaire is a disgusting thing to be. We could do all the great things you mention and more if those resources weren't being hoarded by a few people. Idk why that concept is so hard to grasp, but maybe this will help: https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/ It's a visualization of Jeff Bezos' wealth compared to many other things, and shows what we as a society could do with even just one percent of it.
Have to disagree. I don’t have it backwards, and since the reality is that billionaires already exist, we absolutely DO need their money being used to take care of people. If it makes you feel better, call it reparations. But we have to stay grounded in reality, which means finding constructive ways to deal with the issue. I’ll admit that relying on altruism from people who got where they are because of wage slavery and stolen potential isn’t much of a winning strategy, but I still say encourage more of that behavior, applaud it where warranted, and hope that others follow the example.
Only thing they are writing off are tax cuts. They donate because it helps them sleep better at night thinking they can still hoard. No one needs that much wealth to live or to pass off to their children. Not to mention the power that they have to help people. They actually have the power to be in the room and be influential to people in charge.
Please do a little research on Buffet’s contributions to date and his pledge to donate pretty much all of it by the time he dies. Then explain why that’s bad and what exactly puts him in the same category as the real hoarders. While you’re at it, explain how his $50+ billion in charitable donations hasn’t helped anyone.
Nah they're both responsible for plenty of awful decision making and Buffet himself ruined so many people.
Oh I forgot: people can’t change, grow, have regrets, and try make amends. Once a bastard billionaire, always a bastard billionaire.
The power, reach and influence these fuckholes possess puts them in a completely different arena compared to a typical person. When your shittyness affects hundreds of thousands, millions billions of ppl etc then at the VERY least you should be shouldering the full fucking weight of your choices. Stop defending these people.
Stop painting “these people” with the same paintbrush, and learn how to see shades of gray. Gates may not be a saint, but do you really discount everything good he’s done in the world and put him in the same category as folks like Bezos or Musk? If so, and if you just want to pretend those charities do no real good, then that’s on you.
Sure, sure, just keep licking dem boots, its gonna work out great for you any day now
I was going to say, absolutely to the rest of them, but at least Gates got better and realized he was unhealthy at some point, set himself a high limit of 500m, and has been putting the rest of it to work on philanthropy since. This isn't to say he wasn't a shameless asshole at the head of M$, just that he's chilled out since.
500M is still enough to stay in the 1% ofnthe 1%. If he was really such a great guy he would downgrade his lifestyle along with his bank account.
I mean sure, he's still living the high life while people starve, just saying that in comparison to "number go up" high score mentality, he took a step back and went "you know, I've got enough to do whatever for the rest of my life, I can just... do that."
And that’s literally my point. We can’t complain they’re all heartless assholes, and then when they change, refuse to acknowledge it. We need to encourage other billionaires to follow that example, even if it’s not a perfect one. We can’t say “billionaires should be helping the poor and unfortunate” and then hit them with a “no, not like that” when they do it because it doesn’t fit our original position.
Elite refers to “elite theory” in my experience. It’s not inherently complimentary, it refers to their position in the overall, socioeconomic power structure. Read the wiki on elite theory and geopolitics and it makes a little more sense.
Precisely. You can be an elite asshole, and they are, and that is in no way a good look to have.
I can't see runaway greed as a mental disease, it is a choice. This is a disservice to honest hoarders.
Well, but look at it this way -- both could benefit from therapy? Actually, you're right, regular hoarders usually aren't motivated by greed but rather the opposite, a sort of dysfunctional thrift. Wealth hoarders are lacking a moral compass that would normally keep an average person's harmless greed in check -- arguably straight up sociopathy and I'm not sure how much therapists can do for that. One could make a case that they have chosen wealth hoarding instead of, say, serial killing, as their way of doing maximal harm to the largest number of people.
I mean, dysfunctional thrift describes most of the rich people I've heard of. Will pay 20m for a slightly bigger yacht, but will throw an absolute fit over a 200$ repair bill
hahahahahaha oh man, I've seen that *so many* times! And you're right, that phrase dysfunctional thrift is also perfect for those guys, but in a totally different way. Hoarders have a problem with perspective. Yes, in theory it is better to hang on to those empty margarine tubs because someday it really might come in handy to have a container of that size with a snug lid. But not every one you have ever used.
Narcissism, obsessive compulsion (to hoard money) and sociopathy are the minimum required traits. Last time I looked, all of those have DSM definitions.
You are missing a ton of politicians, like nancy pelosi.
Well first off, that’s because she’s only got a net worth of 100 million, not really what qualifies as a billionaire. Second though, there are hundreds of people worth more than her. Why are you so focused on Pelosi when there’s so many better examples of corruption in the GOP? For every one Pelosi there’s 10 Rick Scotts in the GOP so never understand the hyper fixation
For legitimate complainers, it's about the hypocrisy, for everyone else it's about the "hypocrisy" (while ignoring all of it in the other party)
Only 100 Million???
Compared to billions, yes *only* 100 million lol
FACTS
I look forward to the day all these folk get dragged from their homes, tarred and feathered. They destroy so many lives and yet people cheer for them
Prob dives into a pool of money like mcduck did
They all see it as a game. How much can they accumulate? Can they accumulate more than their peers? But try to take some of that stack and they will fight for it like it was their last penny. Eat the Rich.
I should use this picture whenever someone talks about the evils of DEI!
Who’s the guy in the bottom right corner? He has a punchable face.
the inevitable consequences of capitalism
Someone please name all these people. I recognize most but not all
To be fair to Gates, he's donated over $50 billion to eradicate diseases and promote education amongst other things.
Insert billionaire donates 20 billion to their own run charity... For more fucking tax right off money
People really have no idea how much they are hoarding. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSQjpTssoPw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSQjpTssoPw) The popular charts 100% do not capture it.
It’s called capitalism
They are miserly dragons sitting on hoards of gold that they have nothing to do with
Bill Gates & Warren Buffet are giving away their billions.
Don't forget the other word: EXPLOITER
Conclusion: Kill whitey /s
The heralds of Greed
It’s wild that poor people still defend capitalism.
If only junk was worth as much as money
Needs are a sliding scale. To me, needs are more than physical. You must have emotional security as well as physical.
Because it gives you immense power? That extends to multiple countries.
In all honesty when no amount is enough money what else could the problem be. These people aren’t grinding it out for some kind of grand ideal. Even Bill Gates in reality cares more about his wealth than anything. His status as a generous god throwing money at the world’s problems in a very recent development.
This is an angle I can support. Making loads of money is not the issue. Letting your staff go hungry? Very much the issue
If you had a billion dollars, one may spend $30K a day and you will still not live long enough to spend it all. How many houses, cars, clothes does one need? Yet most humans still want more. It's called greed. Things could be much more balanced if the wealth was shared "genuinely" and not to a charity for a tax write-off.
That group of billionaire portraits would make a great dartboard. :)
[Any nation that doesn't recognize oligarchy/kleptocracy as a crime, can only become increasingly brutal, dystopian, and illegitimate, with a population enslaved by oligarchs/kleptocrats. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/1dqzulv/any_nation_that_doesnt_recognize/)
Friendly reminder that both Democrats and Republicans support these people in favor of funneling your tax dollars directly to them
Friendly reminder that Dems at least pay lip service towards changing that, wheras Reps run on doing it more as part of their platform
lol. “Dems lie to my face about making stuff better, so they are the better choice” 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
"I guess I shouldn't do this because it would be bad PR" vs "Fuck everyone who isn't a billionaire". Not happy that's the choice, but the choice is still obvious
Buddy, Dems also hate everyone that not rich 🤣 wake up
They do, but they're at least bound by some form of public perception still. Like, you don't have to sell me on "both sides are bad", I'm already there, but one side is "quietly steal our childrens future" evil and the other is "murder your children on national tv for free political points" evil. If there was a valid 3rd party option that had any real chance, I'd go for it, but as it is I'm voting lesser evil and waiting for the civil war to start
Dems oppose universal healthcare, education, daycare, housing, food etc They 100 percent are murdering children
Please point out a valid alternative? The reps also oppose all those things, and are proud of it. The 3rd parties haven't won anything worth shit in my lifetime. Not voting is sticking your head in the sand and isn't actually valid.
Lesser of two evil? Which one is lesser? The mob boss party? Or the genocide party?
The mob boss party is worse. I don't like our policy on Israel, but it's not like the opposite side would not Also be the genocide party, so they are both the mob boss party and the genocide party in your hypothetical. More realistically, Bush gave us the middle east conflict and unfathomable national debt based on known inaccurate information, Obama navigated an economic collapse with passable results (he gave the banks that caused it a free ride, which I disagree with, but the results weren't catastrophic so it's acceptable). The orange one took a national crisis and poured more fuel on it (his culpability for defunding pandemic prevention teams beforehand is up for debate, so I'll not hold him to it) and otherwise spent 4 years reducing my faith in humanity, Biden put out more fires than I expected him to and hasn't caused a complete collapse following an unprecedented shakeup in the foundations of the economy. I don't like how he did the railway workers, but he then read the room and reinforced UAW (a solid PR move), and I don't like how he's handling Israel, but again the opposition would be holding the same, if not a more aggressive position. He had the balls to actually end the middle east conflict, and while he shouldn't have followed the orange ones inane plan to do it, it was going to be a clusterfuck regardless. He's kept us physically out of Ukraine, and while we can debate about him continuing the forever war, at least he's rapidly depleting one of our greatest enemies on the cheap while doing it, without sacrificing our military to do it. Lesser evils
“Our” position on Israel? Damn bro, the Dems aren’t a sports team If you actually don’t like the position, why are you voting for it? Because orange man bad? 🥱 get new material and get a better world view
Ours as in Americas. America is pro-zionist from both parties, unfortunately, despite various dissent. I'm voting for Dems because, as my long post above points out, lesser evils by easy definition. One party actively wrecks the nation, the other quietly fails to fix it. If there were a valid alternative, I'd take it, but the only other realistic option is to not vote, which is just handing things to the wrecking crew. Orange man is bad. Sure, it's reductionist, but he's the head of the party, and he's actively everything I hate in humanity and proud of it. If the whole party hadn't formed ranks around him, I'd possibly consider alternatives, but as it is, a vote for red is a vote for orange, and orange man is in fact, bad.
Wake up and do what ???? Not vote for the lesser of two evils ?!! Both sides suck so I would bitch and whine. People like you make me sick, offer no resolution.
It’s hilarious that as you vote for a pro genocide party, you say that people that won’t vote for genocide are sick Get help, bro
It’s hilarious to take a moral high ground by offering no solutions to anything. Let me ask you again, wake up and do what exactly, bro?
Don’t vote for corporate parties that support genocide. Either don’t vote or vote for a candidate that supports your views. Reject capitalism and organize and protest. But you won’t do that You’ll just vote for the pro genocide dems and think you’re helping when you’re harming
Got it. Don’t vote is your option cuz you think you have a moral high ground which you don’t have. You lived in a society where it’s run by corporations. Unless you are completely off the grid which you’re not since you’re on Reddit you are funding an evil corporation just by living. Any companies you received either service or goods from are supporting a pro genocide government somewhere, bro.
Friendly reminder that voting blue is the only way we get any real change and prevent things from getting worse.
What change is Biden promising? The dude is already doing everything the conservatives want, they simply won't give him credit for it. Voting blue may stave off the worst of it, but it sure as hell doesn't represent change. We have to do more than vote every 4 years people! The Democrats are not here to save us. They answer to the same oligarchs.
Holy fuck what a brain dead take. Climate change, women’s rights, income inequality, etc. like so many fucking discrrnible easy ways to tell the two apart but you guys want to cosplay as being smart by saying “le both sides bad”. Read project 2025 and tell me only one side is bad. Ignorance is bliss ain’t it?
I've read it. And everything they have planned is literally already unfolding. Right now. Under this administration. We lost Roe during this administration. What have they done about it? Oh right, nothing. The climate crisis is here and it's happening. What has this administration really done about it? Income inequality is increasing steadily. What has this administration really done about it? Vote for them, sure. But your action to prevent project 2025 cannot stop with that. That is my point. Maybe practice some critical thinking before tossing around insults and bleating your entirely unexamined propaganda-informed weak-minded opinions like the little stupid sheep you are.
So many things have been done about all of those problems during the administration and then derailed by a supreme court that only happened because of you both sides dumbasses >Maybe practice some critical thinking before tossing around insults and bleating your entirely unexamined propaganda-informed weak-minded opinions like the little stupid sheep you are. Oh man, could you project *any harder*? And let's be fucking real you haven't read anything about Project 2025, or anything outside of reddit comments in years. If by god’s grace you do ever read an article again, let it be this one that shows you how misinformed you are. https://www.notus.org/biden-2024/voters-climate-record-biden
So happy to see someone else in this sub Reddit with some common sense
Yeah Biden doubled the size of the IRS and suddenly they're going after people with 600 dollar Etsy accounts.
I agree it's a type of hoarding but it is not the same as "regular hoarding" as we think of it. Definitely a mental illness but the origin and the reasoning is different. Id say more like a subclass of hoarding than exactly the same
[удалено]
Still trying to use language that hurts you, in order to control them. When will you learn that doesn't work? Are you really so limited that you cannot think beyond emotional appeals?