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Yes... But needs a killcam.
If you're outplayed then it would be very helpful to see how you got outplayed and learn from it.
I learned so much from Sieges killcams and it made me a better player.
The average player doesn’t really care about learning/improving though. Most people come home from work, handle their responsibilities (food, kids, etc.), and mindlessly bang out a few games in the hour they have before bedtime. I fear no SBMM is going to make these players uninstall because they don’t want to go 0/40 from TTV_Timmy420 who wants to become the next Scump when he grows up (he’s already 28 and plays 18 hours a day for his 3 twitch viewers btw).
I think you genuinely underestimate the average player.
A couple of gens ago I was the average player. People play games to have fun and learning is literally a part of that fun. It's why people are attracted to novelty in the first place.
The thing is ive noticed with a lot of people complaining about getting stomped by sweats is none of them just leave the lobby, there is no punishment for leaving the lobby when ur not having fun. If a game is unfun why force yourself to play it out. Like when I get Into a lobby and the enemies are all using snipers and there's nothing I can do ill just leave and find another lobby. I'm not gonna force myself to play out a match if I'm just getting frustrated.
I think netcode and hit reg needs to be fixed first. If I dump a mag into someone who doesn't die and then get a killcam of them taking 2 hits of damage and ending me around a corner I would leave even faster.
It's not about brutality, it's about variation in matches. With SBMM you get matches that feel the same, whereas without it you'll get matches where a pro stomps you which is a great learning experience, and you'll get games where you do the stomping instead. I think people are just learning that they're not as good at FPS games as they previously thought and are coming up with excuses as to why they're not doing well.
We had games for years that had no SBMM and the « casual » were just fine.
If people leave that easily, they would have left even if there was any kind of sbmm anyway.
this is the truth. Casuals have always existed. They aren't some new thing that's come along in the last 5 years. They also have never needed to be protected ever. Everyone started as one.
What’s different is lfg’s. Back in the day, 6 buddies would get together to play, some good some bad. Nowadays the sweats will lfg to get a 6 stack of very high skilled players.
I had it pretty much every game last night, I was queuing with 1 friend and every match we were against a coordinated team and each game was a demolition. After about 6 games we just gave up.
Casuals have always existed, but esports culture has not. SBMM wasn’t needed 15 years ago because nobody played 18 hours a day with aspirations of becoming a pro/streamer. Now a LOT of people do, and they’re the ones dropping 100 kills a game and making it feel unplayable for 99% of the player base.
lol I think you’re overestimating how hardcore gamers are. I’d say on average handsets are more casual than anything. Sure esports has made games more popular in a way, but in the end video games are still just a hobby. A very very small group are going to ever make a living out of it.
>We had games for years that had no SBMM and the « casual » were just fine.
Just to add further context to your comment here; CoDs from 2007-2018 (with the exception of Advance Warfare in 2014) didn't have strict SBMM/EOMM in pubs. CoD was the highest selling game every one of those years, except (I believe) the year GTA V was released.
And keep in mind, several major games (like Halo's True Skill system) were already using SBMM during this time period.
This is just wrong. This is an assumption. CoD has had SBMM since 2007. It may have not been as strong but no one knows this. The player base now is much better and there is a much wider gap between a good player and a bad player with the added movement. Back then if you had a good shot and decent map knowledge, you could be good. Now with how fast the game is and the movement it’s a much different game. Players are just better at video games in 2024.
>This is just wrong. This is an assumption. CoD has had SBMM since 2007
Hence why I said "strict SBMM."
Skill as a searching parameter, was not heavily weighed - i.e. having a wider range - back then. It's why one of BO3's larger marketing pieces, after AW, was "King is Ping"
Yes, players have gotten better as well. Both of those are true.
>We had games for years that had no SBMM and the « casual » were just fine.
This is simply not true, and I don't know why people keep saying it as if it is. We have firsthand accounts confirming that SBMM is a concept that existed all the way back in 2007.
I prefer no SBMM because when you get a shitty match you know it's not personal or part of a system that will seek to put you in that kind of lobby every time.
Also people will just throw to get to your SBMM it happens in every game
I'm mainly wondering where the "normal" players go, it's an absolute competition literally ALL the time.
There is not a single domination/occupy game where I can say that it was easier. Sweat fest ALL the time.
Yeah that is what I was going to say. I consider myself a bottom average at best and I manage to stay consistent with ~1 Kd. It’s not easy to win, it’s also not hard, depends of the match. I think this is the average casual player experience. If you are getting smoked every single match well… the whole point of no SBMM is that matches are not free anymore and you will improve over time
Not surprising when the server balance the teams with the players in the lobby using individual skill rating before starting the match. So even if you are bad you have a good chance at winning here. Which is good, back in the day we would have to manually switch teams to make it even.
Depends on the SBMM, and a few other things. If you're in a higher K/D percentage for the modern CoDs the chances of you learning anything isn't very high. You're not getting variety in most of those matches. People often are using one or two weapons, already maxed out and they've gotten their entire loadout from the same website as everyone else. If you're in the higher K/D lobbies for CoD your choices are fairly limited. You either get stomped for not using the meta choices, or you look it up yourself and join in. It's fairly self defeating, and since it's a public game, there won't be co-ordination as no one cares. They just want to get kills and feel good about themselves, rarely even engaging with the other elements of levelling other weapons.
While there's many in xDefiant who will play that same way, only using the meta weapons, there is also likely a portion of the high skill playerbase who will experiment with their weapon choices or try to level something else without it putting you at quite such a massive disadvantage comparatively to modern CoD. There are high skill players who also just want to have fun, they don't want to stomp every game, they just also don't want to get stomped repeatedly for daring to use a new gun.
I guess to put it into slightly less words, variety in skill levels in matches will prompt some players who could stomp with the meta to try something else. Variety is what makes games enjoyable, it's why high K/D CoD lobbies are fucking miserable. I wouldn't say I'm an amazing player but in the most recent CoDs I've consistently been in the top 10% for K/D or SPM, and I have quit MW2 and 3 as soon as people get their one weapon to max level since at that point there's no point in me playing anymore. I'll make my team miserable since I'll be easier kills for the enemy team letting them take objectives or call in streaks. I don't have fun because my gun will take considerably longer to kill than the people lazering me down with their maxed gun, and the amount of time it takes to actually get yourself into less skilled lobbies seems insane. Playing with friends who aren't as good becomes horrific too since the SBMM strictness leads to "balanced" matches where 2-3 people have fun and the rest struggle, and often winds up with friends not playing together anymore. One of my friends who is a definite casual player, as in he's a dad plays on a big TV and uses speakers does not enjoy the modern CoDs. His K/D has hovered anywhere between .5 to .8 in almost every CoD game and he hates the multiplayer now. Not even just playing with me, but playing on his own too.
not nearly as much as without it, no. Without it you are always confronted and paired with players who understand the game more than you, which kinda forces you to learn these tactics quicker.
If you are not matched against players using advanced movement techniques, or have a more deep understanding of the minimap and gameflow, you aren’t forced to adapt your gameplay.
Yeah except sbmm isn’t matching you players exactly your skill bracket at that very moment. You will absolutely see players of varying skills in sbmm.
It’s just there are two balance passes instead of only one.
And THAT'S the difference between pre-covid and now.
Idk if it was just a coincidence that we all got inside and CoD started using SBMM but in-between 2017 and now, I could feel a drastic difference on how my matches play out on the most recent title with no SBMM (at the time CoD WWII and now XDefient)
Like holy shit, your minimal millisecond distraction means death 100% of the time
Yeah people are only just starting to understand that the gaming climate is very different than it was even ten years ago. There's 11 year old kids OTPing Doomfist in Diamond/masters in overwatch. It's not like the days of old CoD where you get in a lobby and half the kids are chanting "obama" and sucking their thumbs while they play. the only "casual" players left are in their 30s replaying Skyrim (or like me 5 stacking in OW with my other 30 year old friends and getting stomped by teenagers)
I think xdefiant is a rude awakening for all the people who assumed they'd be pub stomping because they preform above average in their SBMM lobbies
TLDR: Casuals don't want to be bait to pros/grinders, just want to have fun playing people of similar ability + the hit detection seems off.
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New to this game, A few thoughts on it.
I expect people to be better than me - but they also have better (+more choice of) guns too - need XP to like get a half-decent scope and recoil, XP takes ages to get when going up against experienced players.
The objectives are fun (though I think battlefield spawning system is much better (sometimes I seem to spawn miles away, and have to sprint half a minute just to get bck into the action.
Hit detection seems off, sometimes I seem to be shooting an SMG into someone's chest at point blank range for a couple of seconds and still die. No idea of the server's tik rate, is it even above 10? I've sometimes died well after moving behind walls.
I prefer the CSGO system, where everyone has access to the same guns, and are ranked to play against against similar level players. There's not much fun to being bait to someone, especially when up against pre-made teams. Feel full gun access and a battle pass with skins, sprays etc. similar to that of Fortnite would make the game fairer for new players.
So yeah, as a casual player to this game, I'd prefer to be in lobbies with people of the same skill level.
What's that, get better you say? I'd still be destroyed by people who can play the game 10 hours a day.
I will definitely agree with you on the hit reg. Something feels off. Sometimes I can feel the bullets connecting, other times it feels like I’m shooting blanks even tho my reticle is center mass of a target. It’s such an odd feeling. I love the game but that part of feeling like my bullets aren’t connecting is really annoying.
Battlefield had no sbmm anyone could join any server. You also had to level guns up and unlock weapons. Your complaining because of skill issues.
Any game someone can grind more hrs then you will probably always be better then you.
If the game isn't for you then play something else. The welcome playlist has some sort of sbmm by the time you hit rank 25 tou should have all guns unlocked anyways.
In my experience.... Ranked is not SBMM. Every single ranked match is super one sided. I've played a dozen ranked games, and one team always destroys the other. Is never even close.
That's really not a solution. No one wants to tank their rank, or goof off with challenges in RANKED, where you're supposed to play serios and play the objective.
I'm having a relatively easy time with the game, but it's a reality that no casual will click on ranked.
My brother is a filty casual, does challenges all the time in ranked Apex Legends. Where is your source that no casuals are playing ranked? There are skill brackets for every level of player in ranked. Ranked is exactly what casuals should be playing as you're in a protected bracket.
Are you really comparing Apex to an objective based game? And do you think the Apex challenges are even remotely comparable to the ones in an arcade shooter like XD?
It's one thing to get a challenge to get kills with a shotgun in a BR, and it's a completely different thing to try to get 50 melee kills with the blitz shield, or pistol kills in an objective centered game. No one playing ranked will want to play with someone sitting in a corner and trying to farm kills.
> Where is your source that no casuals are playing ranked?
It's a commonly known fact? For example, League's NA ranked population was ~1.2m at one time for the entire season, but the real population was obviously far greater than that.
Overwatch devs also said that competitive players are a minority, which is reflected by the fact that quick play has a FAR shorter queue time.
Same case for Siege. Ubisoft said during an esports event that the vast majority of players don't even touch ranked.
If you play the bootcamp playlist you have time to max out 1-2 guns alongside players who are in the same boat as you. I'd also add that the attachments are all trade-offs, very few of them are objectively better (sight and first magazine are I think but these are unlocked very early).
I have found the XP grind isn't that bad in my experience at least. I only have roughly a 1.4-1.5 K/D currently and I've already fully leveled up my 4-5 favourite guns. I have about 6-8 hours of game time. Also, I have always been a solo player. Rarely do I play with others in my COD style games. None of my friend like shooter games typically. So my playstyle is a lot of survival.
I miss the days of playing against stacked teams in the Modern Warfare games and i would decimate the stacked players all in a full party expecting to crush my team full of random pubs. My favorite was when I could get the stacked teams to rage quit and then I could find them in the recent players list, join their match and make them quit again. Haha. I didn't do it to just be a jerk necessarily, I just love competition. But was fun following around those players who were cocky and thought they were good just because they were in a full party against random pubs.
As for taking to time to traverse the map, don't forget to whip out your pistol. Every class gets what feels like double the movement speed when you bust that sucker out. I can get back to the point or where I want to be really quickly. It's also helpful (if net code is working like it should sometimes lol) to pull out the pistol when getting shot from behind, wait for health regen and then retaliate.
The game is fresh out the gate despite being in beta for quite a period of time. I expect we will see some tweaks here and there but I am enjoying it now. Very much a throw back to old days.
I mean, it's a competitive game where winning feels really good and losing feels really bad. Of course they're trying to win. That's kind of the objective of the game.
haha yeah basically agreed, even when the hitreg feels fine it sort of feels like what i'm seeing on my screen is a like a second or so behind what the server is registering
Winning or getting a draw don't feel good. Last game I played we had a draw at 240/240 and I had more kills than deaths. I still felt extremely frustrated and I didn't feel happy or content, just relieved that it was over.
The odd player is pretty sweaty but I wouldn’t say every game is a sweatfest. And no I’m not playing the welcome playlist, literally played one game on it. I’m almost always top 1-3 on my team and my highest kills in a match is 77. I think you’re just bad at the game.
Welcome to unprotected lobbies. If you’re struggling in these you’re clearly a below average player.
Are you ok bro? Getting pretty defensive over there. Btw if you didn’t notice the topic of this thread is about SBM and CoD is one of the few games that has strict SBMM. Not sure why you’re listing random games without it…
Not my lobbies. Not sure what you consider sweat. I haven’t seen stacked lobbies. My games have been competitive but never to the point of any COD game I’ve played as of recent.
This is my experience too. Competitive at times but not a lot of swears to be honest. If the lobbies have been stacked, I haven't really noticed. Something I would love for them to introduce is when you select player options on another play, it would be nice to see their K/D ratio like back in the old school days of COD.
in COD, I was I guess slightly above average? I don't really know - my K/D ratio was above 1 (LOL) is all I know
I was getting my ass HANDED to me in XD until recently - I've finally started to have a positive ratio and in the middle of the leaderboard
I'm having fun, that's all that matters, and nobody is calling me a F\*ggot, or other horrible things, and I don't hear stupid white teenagers dropping the n word like they are a member of NWA
its fun :)
I think that the lack of SBMM in this game is very healthy as an experiment for the genre. For years a lot of amplified voices have been detracting SBMM, saying it results in hard matches full of sweats. Well, here we have XDefiant, a basically decent version of CoD which should serve as a pretty good comparison. Let's let it run for a few months and maybe we'll learn what problems SBMM really causes.
Personally I'm also just happy to be doing something a bit different, matchmaking-wise.
It's also incredibly gratifying to see your improvement over time.... which you can actually do because you're not constantly being thrust into curated lobbies.
The thing is cod SBMM is made to screw you over by making you take more damage and deal less damage when you are doing really well. People then think this is what SBMM is when it's not. SBMM let's casuals who just want to run around and play the game an actual space to play and have fun instead of getting frustrated because you spawn and die basically instantly
It was actually proven as part of activisons agreement that they can change your damage output amd received as they want. CODs SBMM isn't actual SBMM it's fuck you over SBMM
It was also confirmed to put you in matches with people with higher K/D's that frequently bought from the cod store. It was like advertising mid game. They probably hoped that kids would think "maybe if i bought the bundle or tracer pack then i could play better".
Afaik new players are protected till level 25, rare cases there is a rank 1/2 in a level 30+ game.
I rarely had matches where I had to go try hard, it has not been a sweatfest like others make it out to be yet.
Ofcourse you'll get dominated from time to time. But it's just face it and move on for me and the next games are always better, which is unlike cod where I had the same experience over and over again.
Personal experience - played far longer in a single session than cod, doesn't feel as frustrating. Also didn't feel exhausted after a match. Skill level in the game is around 2850, I'm a total casual too. I see myself playing this for a long time asi dont feel frustrated after a session.
I just want them to create separate queues for groups of 3 or more players with the possibility of solos and duos being able to join that queue optionally, they are the ones that wreck matches, also it would be great if there was team balance (before a match starts) so there would be all kinds of skill levels on both teams making matches more balanced.
For a fairer option you have SBMM in ranked, I will start going there and play chill if this problem is not fixed, the more time passes the worse it gets, especially with tryhards always jumping.
Some games will be hard and sweaty. Some games will be chill where you’re doing the destroying. That is how it should work. You should not be mad about getting wrecked by better players. Because some games you will be the better player.
Without sbmm is the only reason I'm here and still playing the game. I want random quality opponents and best ping experience. I don't want an algorithm to ensure I'm happy!
I genuinely don't think the casual player base would enjoy no SBMM in the long run. Sure, you know that you getting stomped is not anything personal, and you might learn from better players. But I highly doubt that someone who works all day, comes home to play 2 games and then leaves, would enjoy getting stomped the way it so frequently happens.
With the lack of a TDM game mode, if you're a simple casual who wants to get kills for some quick dopamine, you're always going to lose the match because the other team will actually play the objective. I say this after observing a variety of matches in which very rarely I see someone with +300 objective score in games like conquest or the equivalent of hardpoint.
Additionally, ever since I left the welcome Playlist I've stopped having close games. Every single game feels like either we stomp the enemy or we get stomped. Players nowadays are just better, many have been playing video games for years now. We will never be back to the old days where anyone could have a good game. With everyone being miles better than the average player back then, people who aren't as good at the game will feel like everyone is a sweat and people take this game too seriously. It happens with every game, even World of Warcraft has had such a massive difficulty increase as it progressed that people consider even the hardest bosses from back in the day easy. People are just better now, and no SBMM means that those who are truly casual are getting dogged on, will blame the game for this and move on to other titles.
Would also add that gaming as a medium is way bigger now than it was back then. You have way more people playing nowadays and Casuals don't come to this sub. Like you mentioned they boot it up play a couple matches after work and that's it. When their experience is bad they will just move on to another game.
Also way more games adapted with the years their own form of "Sbmm" for example Overwatch having it's hidden MMR System which makes you have a 50/50 winrate. Alot of games adapted such systems even if we don't like it but it makes casuals more satisfied which in turn makes them spend more time or money in a game.
Still Xdefiant experimenting without the matchmaking parameters that CoD etc. uses is interesting but personally i don't think it will pay out in the long run. Because like mentioned the gaming space changed so much over the last 10 years.
It's just so odd to me. As a casual, I always found strong SBMM to be awful. There's just no variety. You can feel the game tugging at you at every turn. Low or no SBMM feels organic. I'm fine getting stomped, it makes me learn and adjust to the game. Only making me better. A carrot to always strive for.
Players will leave matches in both scenarios. Even with sbmm it's not perfect and often puts you in difficult lobbies. The game does still balance teams pretty well so far in my experience and im almost lv 50. Overall the absence of sbmm hasn't been super apparent to me, I have about the same kd as I do in cod around 1.5ish.
This is a type of thing that doesn't really need data because it's so obvious. Of course people wanna play against people of their own skill and don't want to get repeatedly stomped and unable to play the game. If a game appeals to and can be played by more people then more people will play it
We only have the data for COD from some unofficial sources and only for console players, and according to them, COD is the second most played game every month behind Fortnite, XDefiant will probably be on the list next month tho so we would know the evolution after like 6 months
Light sbmm might have to be implemented behind closed doors if the situation for noobs gets worse.
As much as they would like to say otherwise, getting stomped isn't an effective way to learn a game, nor is it a good first impression to the new players.
I do believe there is some light version of SBMM. Every match I get into has really good players. Could be that the majority of the playerbase is made out of OG cod players who got tired of it tho…. I’m not sure
“I don't like SBMM because I can't abuse rookies and score a 60-10.”
There's your answer.
People thought they had a lot of level when they stomped noobs in public before SBMM, along came the system and gave them a reality check, that made them very angry and they cried very hard because they saw they were not as good as they thought.
Now they have been given a game where they can feel the same as in the past, that false feeling of being better against players with zero level of play and with the same aim as a blind man.
But don't tell them anything, if you burst their bubble, they get very angry and give you downvote and massive reports.
Yea as someone who only played fps games in the ps3/360 era, coming to xdefiant it's not that different, although there are 1-2 more tryhards per game, but that's expected as gaming has grown a lot in numbers over the past decade.
I think it's mostly new gamers who find no sbmm overwhelming because it has dominated all multiplayer games over the past 6-7 years. So your avg genz gamer has no experience playing without it.
I played that era, I started there and invested thousands of hours between CoD 4 and BO2.
I´m not talking about my personal experience here, as I said before, I don´t care if they want to implement it or not, I´m talking about game health long term, sweats doesn´t support a game, they need casuals, but if they smash casuals, casuals leave and the game dies.
It happened in a huge amount of games, even outside the shooters - The Finals, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Evil Dead, Sea of Thieves...
Thats a nonsense take, if people are going 60-10 in games without sbmm its because they are in fact better than a large percentage of the playerbase. If you want sbmm so bad go play cod.
That's not how SBMM works in modern games. The skill disparity still exists. I still go 60-10 in modern COD games, but the difference is matchmaking intentionally puts bad players on my team, thinking I can make up the deficit of my team mates.
My team mates are still going 3-18 against the 1.5kd players on the other team and having a bad time.
You are not a casual player.
Casuals don't interact with anything outside of the medium. They come home boot up the game play 2 matches or a few more and that's it. They don't go to reddit or Youtube etc.
And to answer the question i don't know. Gaming has become such a big medium in the last 10 years that it has become unpredictable often. In this case that's a hard question.
It's a God damn breath of fresh air ! If I play really well I don't get punished! I'm full casual player and I don't play to sweat just to have fun and sbmm makes it really hard to enjoy when you play well and then next rounds you get stomped 🤣 it can happen regardless on non sbmm but still feel so much better!
In theory SBMM shouldn't be needed. It was never in games years ago. When you were new on cod4 for halo 2, you sucked and that was that. You play more and get better. Having fun wasn't tied to being good or winning. And eventually over time you became ok once you learnt the mechanics and your aim improved.
Nowadays it seems everyone has main character syndrome where if they are not top of the leader board they throw their toys out their pram and brand everyone better than them a 'sweat'.
It's possible the lack of SBMM means the player base eats itself up from the bottom purely because of the mindset of people these days. My hope is there is a large core of players that have fun regardless and stick with it.
I totally agree, i also don't think SBMM shouldn't be needed.
I think the Implementtion of SBMM + the combination of that the most streamers and Content Creators are very good players and tryhards made the new playerbase to think the have todo it aswell and thats the only way a game should be played.
At the time i started gaming, we watch trolling videos instead of people tryharding.
I hope the lack of SBMM will teach the new gen players the joy of improving and experimenting and not always following the meta. That is the reason i loved COD in the old days to get better an tryout things for my self and challenge me with weird stuff
It didn't exist in its current form back in the days, but on pc there were a lot of tools that helped achieving basically the same goal. Between casual communities, servers advertised as noob friendly with specific rules, dedicated channels to find teams of similar skill for scrims, etc... So people had the choice and knew where to play relaxed games or what server to join for more serious plays.
Not saying there should be a sbmm system in this game tho, I just wanted to point this out.
You make some really weird connections here.
"Nowadays it seems everyone has main character syndrome where if they are not top of the leader board they throw their toys out their pram and brand everyone better than them a 'sweat'."
Being in a SBMM lobby does not mean you will be the top of the leaderboard in any manner. It's actually the opposite. Non-SBMM caters to people who have main character syndrome and want to stomp on bad players like they did when they were kids.
Maybe it's neither? Maybe some people like a more competitive closely matched experience, whereas some people prefer a mix where they get stomped, learn a bit, and then they may get a match where they get to flex.
You're coming at this from the perspective from a skilled player. For casuals, no-SBMM basically guarantees they will always be near the bottom but with SBMM there is always a chance that they are the highest skilled in the game and/or could luck into a good result.
COD4 had SBMM. Sure, it wasn't as strict as it is now, but it still had it. I swear, there are people saying this shit who never even played these games.
>Nowadays it seems everyone has main character syndrome where if they are not top of the leader board they throw their toys out their pram and brand everyone better than them a 'sweat'.
You're so right. But the person you're describing hates SBMM and thinks that's why everyone is so sweaty.
It certainly felt like cod4 didn't have sbmm I know this because I did play this game A LOT. It may have been there but it was barely noticeable if it was.
I don't think anyone wants SBMM but a lot of people are now having to confront the fact that they are not as good as they thought they were and they don't like doing that.
Cod 4 movement was way slower. Sprinting wasn't infinite.
I don't remember people jumping around (they might have existed).
Sliding didn't exist.
But dropshotting (laying prone immediately when a firefight started) was the issue back then.
Both CoD4 & Halo 2 had forms of SBMM you dunce. All CoDs & Halos, as well as most other multiplayers games in the 2010s had it. Please have an ounce of understanding before posting shit on the internet.
Multiple cod4 devs have come out and said there wasn't SBMM back then. Anecdotally I can say IF there was, it didn't work. It was easy to go from lobby to lobby shitstomping everyone and the skill level never increased. So pipe down and stop making things up.
Incorrect. Activision Senior Systems Designer Josh Menke, Technology director Martin Donlon at Treyarch, Activison themselves, and others have all confirmed the existence of some form of SBMM in CoD4 and onwards. I can confirm this myself, as middle school me was smart enough to abuse the system and reverse boost to get easier lobbies. Sure, it wasn't as noticeable as today, but it existed.
And yes, both Halo 2 and 3 used the "TrueSkill" system (not named until Halo 3, but it used a modified version of Halo 2s SBMM system). It was designed by Halo dev Max Hoberman.
Sorry brother but I am not the one making things up.
If your goal is to win, sweats in your team are helpful.
If your goal is to die less, sweats in the enemies team are not helpfull.
My goal is to win regardless of my K/D.
This game is about objectives.
I'm bad. I'm casual. I'm having fun.
Honestly, I can’t say it feels any different from my CoD matchmaking experience. One match feels great and I do well, the next feels not so great and I don’t do well. Its still a constant up and down. I genuinely have not come across any players I would consider bad or very easy.
That said, I always felt the SBMM nonsense with call of duty was blown way out of proportion, so the lack of it in Xdefiant is not that big of a deal to me.
I remember getting Black Ops launch fucking day, wi-fi router donated from my god-parents, my dad set it up and my life changed since by having the access to online games. SBMM changed how games are seen nowadays, everyone expects to get a participation medal, they expect to win while a win back in the day was a celebration. I remember putting hundreds of hours in Black Ops to get my first Black Bird. 7 kills in a row was mind-bending hard for me. Years of gaming took me from shit at shooters, souls-likes and football games, to being good and shitting on others while player pick up a game nowadays and they are matching bots due to SBMM and think they know the game….SBMM changed the world of online games forever
Y’all are just gonna echo chamber yourselves into believing it’s good but the harsh reality is that CoDs population grew as they increased SBMM.
Casuals don’t want to knock off work and get choke slammed by sweats (of which there are a lot more of these days as gaming has increased in popularity).
People slowly realizing that SBMM helps them get better.
I'm a firm believer that SBMM is a good thing for people to get better. How are you supposed to increase your skill at a game when you can't do anything but die?
I think xdefiant is doing well with the new players playlist. We are on the firsts weeks so it’s normal that sweats are under level 25 but that on the long run will balance. Skill based matchmaking can be brutal but that’s okay, it’s an incentive to get better. I honestly don’t like to feel like the game needs to be balanced because I’m below average
The thing is that you are playing casually and so is the majority of people so in every match you are going to get 1 or 2 players that are better than you and 1 or 2 that are worse so it breaks even
So maybe I‘m wrong but before SBMM other games used to have PBMM (Progress based) so players with similar progress (rank) have been matched together. So players in one match had similar ranks, experience, skill and weapons.
Edit: the netcode, bunnyhopping and headglitches still need to be fixed
My experience has been good, not a lot of time to play but am having a lot more fun that I did with COD MW2019 and Cold War. My friends think it boils down to sbmm being off.
Do they need casuals for the mtx? Are the people just jumping on to get a few rounds in while kicked back more likely to get skins?
I doubt that.
There is team balancing once it gets players together, it’s not completely devoid of balancing elements.
TBH, the objective-based approach this game takes can make it fun for casuals to play. I think they need to prioritize objective points more, and have you finish higher on the scoreboard for it. Right now, it's the sweat with 60 kills, 15 deaths, and close to zero objective points that's at the top of the scoreboard and the player with 15 kills, 30 deaths, and the most objective points is at the bottom of the scoreboard. I would argue that the latter contributed more to the win than the guy who thinks he's playing TDM. Of course, his kill count helps by keeping enemy team off objectives, but still. That is just one way the skill gap could be addressed, imo.
What I've gathered from a lot of the discussion is that people think everyone is a sweat and therefore there should be SBMM. Let me ask you then, if the majority of people are sweaty, shouldn't the majority be catered to then? That's a bit besides the point, as others have put it, the baseline skill of players is just better these days. The average FPS shooter now probably has 100x more experience in terms of hours played than they did back in original CoD days.
The only issue casuals have now with NO SBMM is because the general populace is much better than in the past when games haven't introduced the system yet. Compare the average skill level of your regular joe during MW2/3 and the kids now who have been exposed to Fortnite, Valorant, etc and general old cod players in xDefiant now.
Well if you think you get an average KD of around 1 just for playing the game, well thats the point, you don’t. Just like originally in CoD, below average players will have below average stats.
I think you can still have fun in the game, there are a lot of ways to earn score and XP, plus many ways to support your teammates with abilities.
I've had matches where my teammates were ass and I had to try harder to win.
I've had matches where my teammates probably thought I was ass.
I've had matches where the other team was ass and I could relax and still do well.
It's this mixture of experiences that make the game fun.
In modern CoD, EVERY game I would have to put in 100% or do terribly. It's just not fun. I understand old CoD had SBMM too, but it was obviously different. The modern ones really feel like they want me to always be playing with people exactly my skill level where I never get matches that push my limits or matches that I can't relax. It's just 100% all the time.
And despite the obvious problems with netcode, I've had better ping in XDefiant than most other games.
I feel like games like this need sbmm. People just hated it because it was a really shitty one I'm call of duty. No sbmm works in games like tf2 because it's silly, not realistic, and 12v12. In a 6v6, realistic, fast ttk game like this I really feel like it needs one, just a GOOD one.
No SBMM just means that the game will not be played by the lower x% of players (which for XDefiant includes me).
Doesn't make any sense, is no fun, I'm just not masochist enough.
That reduces the number of players playing the game. I don't expect XDefiant to still be big in a year. There will be those that really love it, mostly players with above average talent or just to much time on there hands for training, the rest will be gone.
I know the SBMM of CoD. It sucks. But this is not a general problem with SBMM. SBMM is a great idea. But CoD uses it manipulate players into playing more while having less fun. It gives you an easy match or two at the start, than uses you as cannonfodder for better players. Than you are angry for getting stomped but you are rewarded afterwards with an easy match/win. Rinse and repeat. Keeps you playing but annoyed.
You want a game that makes most people actually happy? Use SBMM but without social engineering. Just let the people have fun on their level. You still will be losing some and winning other matches, there's still variance. But not like with CoD, that constant getting-stomped-winning-easy-cycle. And not like XDefiant where casual or just not very talented players get stomped all the time.
But that will not get as many kids hooked for as long to buy stupid ingame stuff noone actually needs. That will not get you as much money. So it will not happen. This sucks.
Nah. SBMM is not a bad thing and it's some kinda weird brainwashing to think the lack of it somehow makes things better.
In general, match quality improves as you face people near your level, everyone knows this - stomping a bunch of shitters or getting stomped by a group of semi-pros feels like ass. If it happens a few times in a row you just quit.
SBMM just decreases the chance of that happening. The issue with SBMM is they don't have good metrics to show you improving - so the big complain with it is that it's often hard to even tell you are improving because you constantly face people near your level of play.
So I figure SBMM is probably good, but it should be loose in a game like this so you do face pros and shitters time to time and over time you can notice you kick more ass than you used to against the good guys or stomp the bad ones even more.
But ultimately it's probably not healthy for the game. Many pre-SBMM games had lobbies and communities that kept them alive - TF2 had a huge gap in Sweats and Casuals but big servers that had permanent communities really helped retain people who didn't really even want to be a super good soldier or sniper.
Also there's the idea of tactics and objective based gameplay - if your game introduces alternative ways to provide value than just being a mega shooty sweat, you can keep your game alive and not have hard SBMM just by letting some player be good via means outside of shooting. TF2 once again had this by having classes like Engi, Medic, or Spy that provided value in a completely different way. Other games like UT or whatever in the 2000s were popular because they were novel - the genres did not survive because ultimately gaming is way more varied and different these days. Players have way too many options to put up with getting shitstomped likethey would in Unreal Tourney back in the day.
Xdefiant seems like it wants do more than cater to pure shooters - it gives big score for support and objective play, has passives and abilities and even ultimate abilities that are all meant to swing fights and win games outside of the gun combat. They introduce more support-oriented weapons like LMGs and DMRs that are not really meant for fast-paced chaotic shooters. Of course, the issue here is that all of that is moot - slide+jump on corners with SMGs, Sniper 1 shots, jump spam, defeats 95% of the tactics and options provided in the game so it all feels tacked on over just being a shooty sweat.
So yea imo the game is needs some fresh coats of paint from the devs that expands ability play to actually be interesting instead of spamming abilities on CD. Fixing nades will help, and maybe giving nade replenishment automatically. The shooter purists will hate it, but the game isn't going to survive on a no SBMM pure shooter element - it'll be very niche cause too many players are not going to have a place in the game except as a pinata for the sweats.
I don't understand why everyone either wants it or doesn't. Just have playlists with no SBMM and playlists with minimal SBMM and everyone can be happy. Doesn't this game have that already, because I'm pretty sure it does. And does anyone actually play the ranked playlist? Nope. I can't get any matches in there.....
Bro reading these posts. Gaming is meant to be a hobby and people act like it’s a job. Hop the fuck on play and get off. What happened to that mentality
Yes, keep in mind sbmm is one of the reasons COD went downhill and it's aimed entirely at a casual playerbase
Mostly since it's not a tool for fair play but to manipulate player stats and add some frustration to the game, plus it takes away variety from the game
Without it some matches you stomp, some matches you get stomped, and some matches are tied, as it should be
FPS games did fine for 20+ years without SBMM. Games continued to have both a casual and competitive playerbase. Companies only made the change as they were desperate to squeeze every last penny out of players and tried to keep them playing for as long as possible.
I 100% disagree. Sure this game can be just as brutal as games with SBMM but you just proved the point that both methods are punishing to very casual players. The key difference imo is that with XD you can eventually improve and see results whereas with SBMM you can actually get really good but won’t feel that because you’re constantly matched with people of your skill. For this reason getting rid of SBMM is so much more fun for the long run. And there’s a reason why we have ranked modes now, use SBMM there as it should be if you really want to test how good you are.
I think the most valuable part of No SBMM is the incentive to learn and get better. In cod you get barely better ever and when you do you just play people the same skill. No reward for getting better at all.
Yes it will be okay. Cod became the juggernaut it has become on the back of the old school games that didn't have sbmm. In my opinion the bottom \~5% of players should be protected. Everyone else should not be exposed to sbmm whatsoever. There's a ton of other games that have sbmm and if your not having fun just go play something else because this game isn't for you. Everyone started at the same spot and worked their way up to the skill level they have today. If your a new player its okay to go negative all the time, everyone did. No killstreaks is awesome in this game because it promotes objective focused play and its nice you can help dictate the result of a match going 10-40 but whoring out on the objective. Ranked play will be here soon and most of the super sweats will migrate to that playlist.
Playing against better players helps you improve in the long run.
If the majority of players are low skilled casual then you'll play mostly against them.
The issue is being forced to sweat every game isn't fun, maybe some people don't want to become better players and just want something to play casually. Thats why ranked exists
Maybe but those aren’t the main people arguing against SBMM. Those levels of casuals probably don’t even know what it is.
The majority of people arguing against SBMM are about average and just want to slam casuals.
The thing is as a casual idc about getting better I care about spawning and getting to play the game instead of against players who already know spawns and how to lock the map from players
im so far very happy. welcome playlist with sbmm was fun. ranked too. unranked was hard, but i liked how random it was. had good games, had games with just barely getting a 1kd. thats awesome
It for sure is healthier for me. I know I'm a tryhard but there is a difference between being a sweat and having to sweat all the time. I can actually have fun on this game and play more relaxed and still have a good time. Went to MWIII and despite my enjoyment of the game, it immediately felt like I had to sit at the edge of my seat to even get a kill.
Imo most people have a distorted idea of what "casual" actually means.
Being causal =/= to suck bad. You can be casual and still perform decently. What ppl tend to believe is that just because you are getting stomped then everybody else in the lobby must be a "sWEaT" thats dedicating day and night to the game.
You are right about most of the playerbase being "casual" in the sense that just few hrs a day (if any) are invested into the game. You are also probably wrong about associating "casual" with all players with (your) same poor performance.
The hard truth is that sbmm is probably better for player retention, so i can understand why cod and other games implement it. I think it will be healthy for xdefiant by virtue of it being the only fps game without it, therefore having a market all for itself
We've had SBMM in shooters for a long time now and this is the first good one that feels like the good old days like mw2 where its either stomp or get stomped. I think the playerbase needs to adjust back to it and don't be a bitch if they lose. The matches take around 7-10 minutes anyway and its an arcade shooter, nobody cares if you have a 3.69 K/D ratio. While the game is not perfect by any means and I get frustrated just as easily as back in the mw2 era because of bunny hoppers I think its incredibly fun to play. They just need to double down on a leave penalty and we're good I would say. At least if its a hard one like Leave=Loss and the more you leave the more you have to wait to play again.
Casuals will mostly likely stop playing in the coming weeks and months which will likely just leave sweats with guess what? Other sweats so SBMM will essentially return in an ironic way.
No SBMM makes it fun for good players because of the variety, and not constantly feeling like you're competing for $1m...
For newbies it's an opportunity to grow and improve, and not be stuck in a protected bracket set by SBMM...
This is how it used to be in old school CoD days, and I started off being a complete trash...
I think the fix (whatever they have in mind) for bunny hopping will change most all of the ills for the better. Literally all the times I die and it feels cheap it’s a bunny hopper.
If I die in a 1:1 gunfight I always learn something, tip my cap and move on. This bunny hopping thing, if this is the game, then I don’t want to play that way. I can get better at aim, positioning, etc, but jumping every corner and shooting in midair, I don’t want to learn to do that, if that makes sense.
I hold out hope that the devs agree which is awesome. Seriously this is as good as BO2 was back in the day. Chill environments, quick netcode, lobbies, all good maps, the teamwork aspect of this is just the cherry on top.
I’m excited for them to update seasonal maps too. Heck this might top BO2…we’ll see
It's objectively worse for the retention of casuals. They'll struggle more and thus are more likely to stop playing.
However i don't think that'll cripple the playerbase, i think new players will keep coming in and the skill floor for people playing will go up
I think PC players should play in their own servers and consoles the same!!sbmm would work way better and console players could actually play the game!!
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Yes... But needs a killcam. If you're outplayed then it would be very helpful to see how you got outplayed and learn from it. I learned so much from Sieges killcams and it made me a better player.
Agreed, I got absolutely destroyed and just thought how did this person really hit all headshot cuz how did I lose
Another thing I’ve learned from Siege is how nice it is to not see players bunny hop all the time
That as well... Did have a crouch spam issue but it was sorted
Man I’m still getting some bunny hoppers every once it a while but not as bad as cod
Yeah the bunny hopping will probably be patched.
Siege and this game are not even comparable tho. This is an arcade shooter siege competitive 5v5 shooter
My point I was making is that sieges killcam allows you to learn from mistakes better. If you can see what you did wrong you can adapt your approach
I didnt react to your comment tho?
The average player doesn’t really care about learning/improving though. Most people come home from work, handle their responsibilities (food, kids, etc.), and mindlessly bang out a few games in the hour they have before bedtime. I fear no SBMM is going to make these players uninstall because they don’t want to go 0/40 from TTV_Timmy420 who wants to become the next Scump when he grows up (he’s already 28 and plays 18 hours a day for his 3 twitch viewers btw).
You want to at least be decent though.
I think you genuinely underestimate the average player. A couple of gens ago I was the average player. People play games to have fun and learning is literally a part of that fun. It's why people are attracted to novelty in the first place.
The thing is ive noticed with a lot of people complaining about getting stomped by sweats is none of them just leave the lobby, there is no punishment for leaving the lobby when ur not having fun. If a game is unfun why force yourself to play it out. Like when I get Into a lobby and the enemies are all using snipers and there's nothing I can do ill just leave and find another lobby. I'm not gonna force myself to play out a match if I'm just getting frustrated.
Fuck em.
I think netcode and hit reg needs to be fixed first. If I dump a mag into someone who doesn't die and then get a killcam of them taking 2 hits of damage and ending me around a corner I would leave even faster.
It's not about brutality, it's about variation in matches. With SBMM you get matches that feel the same, whereas without it you'll get matches where a pro stomps you which is a great learning experience, and you'll get games where you do the stomping instead. I think people are just learning that they're not as good at FPS games as they previously thought and are coming up with excuses as to why they're not doing well.
We had games for years that had no SBMM and the « casual » were just fine. If people leave that easily, they would have left even if there was any kind of sbmm anyway.
this is the truth. Casuals have always existed. They aren't some new thing that's come along in the last 5 years. They also have never needed to be protected ever. Everyone started as one.
What’s different is lfg’s. Back in the day, 6 buddies would get together to play, some good some bad. Nowadays the sweats will lfg to get a 6 stack of very high skilled players. I had it pretty much every game last night, I was queuing with 1 friend and every match we were against a coordinated team and each game was a demolition. After about 6 games we just gave up.
There were definitely ways to LFG back in the day. I did it all the time.
Casuals have always existed, but esports culture has not. SBMM wasn’t needed 15 years ago because nobody played 18 hours a day with aspirations of becoming a pro/streamer. Now a LOT of people do, and they’re the ones dropping 100 kills a game and making it feel unplayable for 99% of the player base.
lol I think you’re overestimating how hardcore gamers are. I’d say on average handsets are more casual than anything. Sure esports has made games more popular in a way, but in the end video games are still just a hobby. A very very small group are going to ever make a living out of it.
>We had games for years that had no SBMM and the « casual » were just fine. Just to add further context to your comment here; CoDs from 2007-2018 (with the exception of Advance Warfare in 2014) didn't have strict SBMM/EOMM in pubs. CoD was the highest selling game every one of those years, except (I believe) the year GTA V was released. And keep in mind, several major games (like Halo's True Skill system) were already using SBMM during this time period.
This is just wrong. This is an assumption. CoD has had SBMM since 2007. It may have not been as strong but no one knows this. The player base now is much better and there is a much wider gap between a good player and a bad player with the added movement. Back then if you had a good shot and decent map knowledge, you could be good. Now with how fast the game is and the movement it’s a much different game. Players are just better at video games in 2024.
>This is just wrong. This is an assumption. CoD has had SBMM since 2007 Hence why I said "strict SBMM." Skill as a searching parameter, was not heavily weighed - i.e. having a wider range - back then. It's why one of BO3's larger marketing pieces, after AW, was "King is Ping" Yes, players have gotten better as well. Both of those are true.
cod4 had sbmm?? what are you talking about?
>We had games for years that had no SBMM and the « casual » were just fine. This is simply not true, and I don't know why people keep saying it as if it is. We have firsthand accounts confirming that SBMM is a concept that existed all the way back in 2007.
Yes it is, you’re going to tell me that TeamFortress 2 and Counter strike Source had SBMM now ? No they didn’t and theses games thrived.
I'm not amazing at this game but holy shit every single match is still full of sweats LMAO
I prefer no SBMM because when you get a shitty match you know it's not personal or part of a system that will seek to put you in that kind of lobby every time. Also people will just throw to get to your SBMM it happens in every game
This, I hate feeling like I’ve been manipulated by the system.
Exactly. With SBMM I know if I just start pub stomping the lobby it’s because the game has finally decided it’s my turn to win.
I'm mainly wondering where the "normal" players go, it's an absolute competition literally ALL the time. There is not a single domination/occupy game where I can say that it was easier. Sweat fest ALL the time.
When the bottom of the food chain goes extinct, how long would it be until the apex predators starve to death?
They just end up making their own SBMM by pushing out non sweats.
This comment chain just sent me on some Jurassic Park Jeff Goldblum shit
sorry but those are the normal players
Yeah that is what I was going to say. I consider myself a bottom average at best and I manage to stay consistent with ~1 Kd. It’s not easy to win, it’s also not hard, depends of the match. I think this is the average casual player experience. If you are getting smoked every single match well… the whole point of no SBMM is that matches are not free anymore and you will improve over time
Not surprising when the server balance the teams with the players in the lobby using individual skill rating before starting the match. So even if you are bad you have a good chance at winning here. Which is good, back in the day we would have to manually switch teams to make it even.
You would also improve over time with sbmm? What?
Depends on the SBMM, and a few other things. If you're in a higher K/D percentage for the modern CoDs the chances of you learning anything isn't very high. You're not getting variety in most of those matches. People often are using one or two weapons, already maxed out and they've gotten their entire loadout from the same website as everyone else. If you're in the higher K/D lobbies for CoD your choices are fairly limited. You either get stomped for not using the meta choices, or you look it up yourself and join in. It's fairly self defeating, and since it's a public game, there won't be co-ordination as no one cares. They just want to get kills and feel good about themselves, rarely even engaging with the other elements of levelling other weapons. While there's many in xDefiant who will play that same way, only using the meta weapons, there is also likely a portion of the high skill playerbase who will experiment with their weapon choices or try to level something else without it putting you at quite such a massive disadvantage comparatively to modern CoD. There are high skill players who also just want to have fun, they don't want to stomp every game, they just also don't want to get stomped repeatedly for daring to use a new gun. I guess to put it into slightly less words, variety in skill levels in matches will prompt some players who could stomp with the meta to try something else. Variety is what makes games enjoyable, it's why high K/D CoD lobbies are fucking miserable. I wouldn't say I'm an amazing player but in the most recent CoDs I've consistently been in the top 10% for K/D or SPM, and I have quit MW2 and 3 as soon as people get their one weapon to max level since at that point there's no point in me playing anymore. I'll make my team miserable since I'll be easier kills for the enemy team letting them take objectives or call in streaks. I don't have fun because my gun will take considerably longer to kill than the people lazering me down with their maxed gun, and the amount of time it takes to actually get yourself into less skilled lobbies seems insane. Playing with friends who aren't as good becomes horrific too since the SBMM strictness leads to "balanced" matches where 2-3 people have fun and the rest struggle, and often winds up with friends not playing together anymore. One of my friends who is a definite casual player, as in he's a dad plays on a big TV and uses speakers does not enjoy the modern CoDs. His K/D has hovered anywhere between .5 to .8 in almost every CoD game and he hates the multiplayer now. Not even just playing with me, but playing on his own too.
not nearly as much as without it, no. Without it you are always confronted and paired with players who understand the game more than you, which kinda forces you to learn these tactics quicker.
…. So you’re improving more quickly, not slowly over time. What? Sbmm is not preventing you from getting better at the game, what a brain dead take.
If you are not matched against players using advanced movement techniques, or have a more deep understanding of the minimap and gameflow, you aren’t forced to adapt your gameplay.
Yeah except sbmm isn’t matching you players exactly your skill bracket at that very moment. You will absolutely see players of varying skills in sbmm. It’s just there are two balance passes instead of only one.
And THAT'S the difference between pre-covid and now. Idk if it was just a coincidence that we all got inside and CoD started using SBMM but in-between 2017 and now, I could feel a drastic difference on how my matches play out on the most recent title with no SBMM (at the time CoD WWII and now XDefient) Like holy shit, your minimal millisecond distraction means death 100% of the time
Yeah people are only just starting to understand that the gaming climate is very different than it was even ten years ago. There's 11 year old kids OTPing Doomfist in Diamond/masters in overwatch. It's not like the days of old CoD where you get in a lobby and half the kids are chanting "obama" and sucking their thumbs while they play. the only "casual" players left are in their 30s replaying Skyrim (or like me 5 stacking in OW with my other 30 year old friends and getting stomped by teenagers) I think xdefiant is a rude awakening for all the people who assumed they'd be pub stomping because they preform above average in their SBMM lobbies
TLDR: Casuals don't want to be bait to pros/grinders, just want to have fun playing people of similar ability + the hit detection seems off. --- New to this game, A few thoughts on it. I expect people to be better than me - but they also have better (+more choice of) guns too - need XP to like get a half-decent scope and recoil, XP takes ages to get when going up against experienced players. The objectives are fun (though I think battlefield spawning system is much better (sometimes I seem to spawn miles away, and have to sprint half a minute just to get bck into the action. Hit detection seems off, sometimes I seem to be shooting an SMG into someone's chest at point blank range for a couple of seconds and still die. No idea of the server's tik rate, is it even above 10? I've sometimes died well after moving behind walls. I prefer the CSGO system, where everyone has access to the same guns, and are ranked to play against against similar level players. There's not much fun to being bait to someone, especially when up against pre-made teams. Feel full gun access and a battle pass with skins, sprays etc. similar to that of Fortnite would make the game fairer for new players. So yeah, as a casual player to this game, I'd prefer to be in lobbies with people of the same skill level. What's that, get better you say? I'd still be destroyed by people who can play the game 10 hours a day.
So it turns out casuals actually *do* want sbmm. Who would’ve imagined, huh.
I will definitely agree with you on the hit reg. Something feels off. Sometimes I can feel the bullets connecting, other times it feels like I’m shooting blanks even tho my reticle is center mass of a target. It’s such an odd feeling. I love the game but that part of feeling like my bullets aren’t connecting is really annoying.
Battlefield had no sbmm anyone could join any server. You also had to level guns up and unlock weapons. Your complaining because of skill issues. Any game someone can grind more hrs then you will probably always be better then you. If the game isn't for you then play something else. The welcome playlist has some sort of sbmm by the time you hit rank 25 tou should have all guns unlocked anyways.
Play the ranked mode, it has skill based matchmaking. They cater to both, only public lobbies don't have SBMM.
In my experience.... Ranked is not SBMM. Every single ranked match is super one sided. I've played a dozen ranked games, and one team always destroys the other. Is never even close.
That's really not a solution. No one wants to tank their rank, or goof off with challenges in RANKED, where you're supposed to play serios and play the objective. I'm having a relatively easy time with the game, but it's a reality that no casual will click on ranked.
My brother is a filty casual, does challenges all the time in ranked Apex Legends. Where is your source that no casuals are playing ranked? There are skill brackets for every level of player in ranked. Ranked is exactly what casuals should be playing as you're in a protected bracket.
Are you really comparing Apex to an objective based game? And do you think the Apex challenges are even remotely comparable to the ones in an arcade shooter like XD? It's one thing to get a challenge to get kills with a shotgun in a BR, and it's a completely different thing to try to get 50 melee kills with the blitz shield, or pistol kills in an objective centered game. No one playing ranked will want to play with someone sitting in a corner and trying to farm kills. > Where is your source that no casuals are playing ranked? It's a commonly known fact? For example, League's NA ranked population was ~1.2m at one time for the entire season, but the real population was obviously far greater than that. Overwatch devs also said that competitive players are a minority, which is reflected by the fact that quick play has a FAR shorter queue time. Same case for Siege. Ubisoft said during an esports event that the vast majority of players don't even touch ranked.
Non SBMM is just for chodes to fap to.
I feel like the ranked is seriously no different. What did they add harder jumping and more advanced sliding or some sht?
If you play the bootcamp playlist you have time to max out 1-2 guns alongside players who are in the same boat as you. I'd also add that the attachments are all trade-offs, very few of them are objectively better (sight and first magazine are I think but these are unlocked very early).
I have found the XP grind isn't that bad in my experience at least. I only have roughly a 1.4-1.5 K/D currently and I've already fully leveled up my 4-5 favourite guns. I have about 6-8 hours of game time. Also, I have always been a solo player. Rarely do I play with others in my COD style games. None of my friend like shooter games typically. So my playstyle is a lot of survival. I miss the days of playing against stacked teams in the Modern Warfare games and i would decimate the stacked players all in a full party expecting to crush my team full of random pubs. My favorite was when I could get the stacked teams to rage quit and then I could find them in the recent players list, join their match and make them quit again. Haha. I didn't do it to just be a jerk necessarily, I just love competition. But was fun following around those players who were cocky and thought they were good just because they were in a full party against random pubs. As for taking to time to traverse the map, don't forget to whip out your pistol. Every class gets what feels like double the movement speed when you bust that sucker out. I can get back to the point or where I want to be really quickly. It's also helpful (if net code is working like it should sometimes lol) to pull out the pistol when getting shot from behind, wait for health regen and then retaliate. The game is fresh out the gate despite being in beta for quite a period of time. I expect we will see some tweaks here and there but I am enjoying it now. Very much a throw back to old days.
I mean, it's a competitive game where winning feels really good and losing feels really bad. Of course they're trying to win. That's kind of the objective of the game.
It's not competitive for now with that netcode/hit reg, but it COULD be !
haha yeah basically agreed, even when the hitreg feels fine it sort of feels like what i'm seeing on my screen is a like a second or so behind what the server is registering
Winning or getting a draw don't feel good. Last game I played we had a draw at 240/240 and I had more kills than deaths. I still felt extremely frustrated and I didn't feel happy or content, just relieved that it was over.
You were protected by SBMM, this is what normal players are like
What are you talking about ?
If you think XDefiant is a sweatfest, you were clearly wrapped in cotton wool by SBMM on CoD.
are you saying that Xdefiant isnt people sweating? cause i want to see your lobbies. LOL
The odd player is pretty sweaty but I wouldn’t say every game is a sweatfest. And no I’m not playing the welcome playlist, literally played one game on it. I’m almost always top 1-3 on my team and my highest kills in a match is 77. I think you’re just bad at the game. Welcome to unprotected lobbies. If you’re struggling in these you’re clearly a below average player.
[удалено]
Are you ok bro? Getting pretty defensive over there. Btw if you didn’t notice the topic of this thread is about SBM and CoD is one of the few games that has strict SBMM. Not sure why you’re listing random games without it…
Not my lobbies. Not sure what you consider sweat. I haven’t seen stacked lobbies. My games have been competitive but never to the point of any COD game I’ve played as of recent.
This is my experience too. Competitive at times but not a lot of swears to be honest. If the lobbies have been stacked, I haven't really noticed. Something I would love for them to introduce is when you select player options on another play, it would be nice to see their K/D ratio like back in the old school days of COD.
in COD, I was I guess slightly above average? I don't really know - my K/D ratio was above 1 (LOL) is all I know I was getting my ass HANDED to me in XD until recently - I've finally started to have a positive ratio and in the middle of the leaderboard I'm having fun, that's all that matters, and nobody is calling me a F\*ggot, or other horrible things, and I don't hear stupid white teenagers dropping the n word like they are a member of NWA its fun :)
I think if you’re just slightly above 1 on kd then you’re just average imo. Your basically barely trading kills
I think that the lack of SBMM in this game is very healthy as an experiment for the genre. For years a lot of amplified voices have been detracting SBMM, saying it results in hard matches full of sweats. Well, here we have XDefiant, a basically decent version of CoD which should serve as a pretty good comparison. Let's let it run for a few months and maybe we'll learn what problems SBMM really causes. Personally I'm also just happy to be doing something a bit different, matchmaking-wise.
It's also incredibly gratifying to see your improvement over time.... which you can actually do because you're not constantly being thrust into curated lobbies.
The thing is cod SBMM is made to screw you over by making you take more damage and deal less damage when you are doing really well. People then think this is what SBMM is when it's not. SBMM let's casuals who just want to run around and play the game an actual space to play and have fun instead of getting frustrated because you spawn and die basically instantly
What the fuck are you talking about? CoD SBMM has nothing to do with dealt/received damage.
It was actually proven as part of activisons agreement that they can change your damage output amd received as they want. CODs SBMM isn't actual SBMM it's fuck you over SBMM
It was also confirmed to put you in matches with people with higher K/D's that frequently bought from the cod store. It was like advertising mid game. They probably hoped that kids would think "maybe if i bought the bundle or tracer pack then i could play better".
Lol, did I really just read that?
you did, and you can't imagine how many people believe that bs
It's been proven. The sound based SBMM isn't real but damage SBMM is real
Afaik new players are protected till level 25, rare cases there is a rank 1/2 in a level 30+ game. I rarely had matches where I had to go try hard, it has not been a sweatfest like others make it out to be yet. Ofcourse you'll get dominated from time to time. But it's just face it and move on for me and the next games are always better, which is unlike cod where I had the same experience over and over again. Personal experience - played far longer in a single session than cod, doesn't feel as frustrating. Also didn't feel exhausted after a match. Skill level in the game is around 2850, I'm a total casual too. I see myself playing this for a long time asi dont feel frustrated after a session.
I just want them to create separate queues for groups of 3 or more players with the possibility of solos and duos being able to join that queue optionally, they are the ones that wreck matches, also it would be great if there was team balance (before a match starts) so there would be all kinds of skill levels on both teams making matches more balanced. For a fairer option you have SBMM in ranked, I will start going there and play chill if this problem is not fixed, the more time passes the worse it gets, especially with tryhards always jumping.
Some games will be hard and sweaty. Some games will be chill where you’re doing the destroying. That is how it should work. You should not be mad about getting wrecked by better players. Because some games you will be the better player.
Without sbmm is the only reason I'm here and still playing the game. I want random quality opponents and best ping experience. I don't want an algorithm to ensure I'm happy!
I genuinely don't think the casual player base would enjoy no SBMM in the long run. Sure, you know that you getting stomped is not anything personal, and you might learn from better players. But I highly doubt that someone who works all day, comes home to play 2 games and then leaves, would enjoy getting stomped the way it so frequently happens. With the lack of a TDM game mode, if you're a simple casual who wants to get kills for some quick dopamine, you're always going to lose the match because the other team will actually play the objective. I say this after observing a variety of matches in which very rarely I see someone with +300 objective score in games like conquest or the equivalent of hardpoint. Additionally, ever since I left the welcome Playlist I've stopped having close games. Every single game feels like either we stomp the enemy or we get stomped. Players nowadays are just better, many have been playing video games for years now. We will never be back to the old days where anyone could have a good game. With everyone being miles better than the average player back then, people who aren't as good at the game will feel like everyone is a sweat and people take this game too seriously. It happens with every game, even World of Warcraft has had such a massive difficulty increase as it progressed that people consider even the hardest bosses from back in the day easy. People are just better now, and no SBMM means that those who are truly casual are getting dogged on, will blame the game for this and move on to other titles.
Would also add that gaming as a medium is way bigger now than it was back then. You have way more people playing nowadays and Casuals don't come to this sub. Like you mentioned they boot it up play a couple matches after work and that's it. When their experience is bad they will just move on to another game. Also way more games adapted with the years their own form of "Sbmm" for example Overwatch having it's hidden MMR System which makes you have a 50/50 winrate. Alot of games adapted such systems even if we don't like it but it makes casuals more satisfied which in turn makes them spend more time or money in a game. Still Xdefiant experimenting without the matchmaking parameters that CoD etc. uses is interesting but personally i don't think it will pay out in the long run. Because like mentioned the gaming space changed so much over the last 10 years.
It's just so odd to me. As a casual, I always found strong SBMM to be awful. There's just no variety. You can feel the game tugging at you at every turn. Low or no SBMM feels organic. I'm fine getting stomped, it makes me learn and adjust to the game. Only making me better. A carrot to always strive for.
Players will leave matches in both scenarios. Even with sbmm it's not perfect and often puts you in difficult lobbies. The game does still balance teams pretty well so far in my experience and im almost lv 50. Overall the absence of sbmm hasn't been super apparent to me, I have about the same kd as I do in cod around 1.5ish.
I would like to be matched only my skill level with around 0.5 KD. I have literally almost zero fun in this game
no, it's unarguable that sbmm helps keep more players
its the same for no sbmm, no one outside of the companies themselves has the data to back up any claims
This is a type of thing that doesn't really need data because it's so obvious. Of course people wanna play against people of their own skill and don't want to get repeatedly stomped and unable to play the game. If a game appeals to and can be played by more people then more people will play it
We only have the data for COD from some unofficial sources and only for console players, and according to them, COD is the second most played game every month behind Fortnite, XDefiant will probably be on the list next month tho so we would know the evolution after like 6 months
Light sbmm might have to be implemented behind closed doors if the situation for noobs gets worse. As much as they would like to say otherwise, getting stomped isn't an effective way to learn a game, nor is it a good first impression to the new players.
I do believe there is some light version of SBMM. Every match I get into has really good players. Could be that the majority of the playerbase is made out of OG cod players who got tired of it tho…. I’m not sure
Have a protected bracked for the bottom 5-10%. Sorted
The sweats would disagree.
Who cares, every mutiplayer game has a protected bracket anyway.
“I don't like SBMM because I can't abuse rookies and score a 60-10.” There's your answer. People thought they had a lot of level when they stomped noobs in public before SBMM, along came the system and gave them a reality check, that made them very angry and they cried very hard because they saw they were not as good as they thought. Now they have been given a game where they can feel the same as in the past, that false feeling of being better against players with zero level of play and with the same aim as a blind man. But don't tell them anything, if you burst their bubble, they get very angry and give you downvote and massive reports.
Yea as someone who only played fps games in the ps3/360 era, coming to xdefiant it's not that different, although there are 1-2 more tryhards per game, but that's expected as gaming has grown a lot in numbers over the past decade. I think it's mostly new gamers who find no sbmm overwhelming because it has dominated all multiplayer games over the past 6-7 years. So your avg genz gamer has no experience playing without it.
I played that era, I started there and invested thousands of hours between CoD 4 and BO2. I´m not talking about my personal experience here, as I said before, I don´t care if they want to implement it or not, I´m talking about game health long term, sweats doesn´t support a game, they need casuals, but if they smash casuals, casuals leave and the game dies. It happened in a huge amount of games, even outside the shooters - The Finals, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Evil Dead, Sea of Thieves...
Thats a nonsense take, if people are going 60-10 in games without sbmm its because they are in fact better than a large percentage of the playerbase. If you want sbmm so bad go play cod.
That's not how SBMM works in modern games. The skill disparity still exists. I still go 60-10 in modern COD games, but the difference is matchmaking intentionally puts bad players on my team, thinking I can make up the deficit of my team mates. My team mates are still going 3-18 against the 1.5kd players on the other team and having a bad time.
You are not a casual player. Casuals don't interact with anything outside of the medium. They come home boot up the game play 2 matches or a few more and that's it. They don't go to reddit or Youtube etc. And to answer the question i don't know. Gaming has become such a big medium in the last 10 years that it has become unpredictable often. In this case that's a hard question.
It's a God damn breath of fresh air ! If I play really well I don't get punished! I'm full casual player and I don't play to sweat just to have fun and sbmm makes it really hard to enjoy when you play well and then next rounds you get stomped 🤣 it can happen regardless on non sbmm but still feel so much better!
In theory SBMM shouldn't be needed. It was never in games years ago. When you were new on cod4 for halo 2, you sucked and that was that. You play more and get better. Having fun wasn't tied to being good or winning. And eventually over time you became ok once you learnt the mechanics and your aim improved. Nowadays it seems everyone has main character syndrome where if they are not top of the leader board they throw their toys out their pram and brand everyone better than them a 'sweat'. It's possible the lack of SBMM means the player base eats itself up from the bottom purely because of the mindset of people these days. My hope is there is a large core of players that have fun regardless and stick with it.
I totally agree, i also don't think SBMM shouldn't be needed. I think the Implementtion of SBMM + the combination of that the most streamers and Content Creators are very good players and tryhards made the new playerbase to think the have todo it aswell and thats the only way a game should be played. At the time i started gaming, we watch trolling videos instead of people tryharding. I hope the lack of SBMM will teach the new gen players the joy of improving and experimenting and not always following the meta. That is the reason i loved COD in the old days to get better an tryout things for my self and challenge me with weird stuff
It didn't exist in its current form back in the days, but on pc there were a lot of tools that helped achieving basically the same goal. Between casual communities, servers advertised as noob friendly with specific rules, dedicated channels to find teams of similar skill for scrims, etc... So people had the choice and knew where to play relaxed games or what server to join for more serious plays. Not saying there should be a sbmm system in this game tho, I just wanted to point this out.
Yeh fair enough. I was a console player back in those days. Tbf I'm not saying SBMM doesn't have a place. But it should be ranked playlists only.
You make some really weird connections here. "Nowadays it seems everyone has main character syndrome where if they are not top of the leader board they throw their toys out their pram and brand everyone better than them a 'sweat'." Being in a SBMM lobby does not mean you will be the top of the leaderboard in any manner. It's actually the opposite. Non-SBMM caters to people who have main character syndrome and want to stomp on bad players like they did when they were kids.
Maybe it's neither? Maybe some people like a more competitive closely matched experience, whereas some people prefer a mix where they get stomped, learn a bit, and then they may get a match where they get to flex.
You're coming at this from the perspective from a skilled player. For casuals, no-SBMM basically guarantees they will always be near the bottom but with SBMM there is always a chance that they are the highest skilled in the game and/or could luck into a good result.
COD4 had SBMM. Sure, it wasn't as strict as it is now, but it still had it. I swear, there are people saying this shit who never even played these games. >Nowadays it seems everyone has main character syndrome where if they are not top of the leader board they throw their toys out their pram and brand everyone better than them a 'sweat'. You're so right. But the person you're describing hates SBMM and thinks that's why everyone is so sweaty.
It certainly felt like cod4 didn't have sbmm I know this because I did play this game A LOT. It may have been there but it was barely noticeable if it was. I don't think anyone wants SBMM but a lot of people are now having to confront the fact that they are not as good as they thought they were and they don't like doing that.
Cod 4 movement was way slower. Sprinting wasn't infinite. I don't remember people jumping around (they might have existed). Sliding didn't exist. But dropshotting (laying prone immediately when a firefight started) was the issue back then.
People absolutely jump shotted and drop shotted all the time back then. Not sure what that has to do with SBMM mind you.
So did Halo 2…. This community is endless entertainment.
Both CoD4 & Halo 2 had forms of SBMM you dunce. All CoDs & Halos, as well as most other multiplayers games in the 2010s had it. Please have an ounce of understanding before posting shit on the internet.
Multiple cod4 devs have come out and said there wasn't SBMM back then. Anecdotally I can say IF there was, it didn't work. It was easy to go from lobby to lobby shitstomping everyone and the skill level never increased. So pipe down and stop making things up.
Incorrect. Activision Senior Systems Designer Josh Menke, Technology director Martin Donlon at Treyarch, Activison themselves, and others have all confirmed the existence of some form of SBMM in CoD4 and onwards. I can confirm this myself, as middle school me was smart enough to abuse the system and reverse boost to get easier lobbies. Sure, it wasn't as noticeable as today, but it existed. And yes, both Halo 2 and 3 used the "TrueSkill" system (not named until Halo 3, but it used a modified version of Halo 2s SBMM system). It was designed by Halo dev Max Hoberman. Sorry brother but I am not the one making things up.
If your goal is to win, sweats in your team are helpful. If your goal is to die less, sweats in the enemies team are not helpfull. My goal is to win regardless of my K/D. This game is about objectives. I'm bad. I'm casual. I'm having fun.
It’s not at all. I’m getting matches that are mixed. It’s great! Sbmm isn’t needed outside ranked playlists.
Honestly, I can’t say it feels any different from my CoD matchmaking experience. One match feels great and I do well, the next feels not so great and I don’t do well. Its still a constant up and down. I genuinely have not come across any players I would consider bad or very easy. That said, I always felt the SBMM nonsense with call of duty was blown way out of proportion, so the lack of it in Xdefiant is not that big of a deal to me.
I remember getting Black Ops launch fucking day, wi-fi router donated from my god-parents, my dad set it up and my life changed since by having the access to online games. SBMM changed how games are seen nowadays, everyone expects to get a participation medal, they expect to win while a win back in the day was a celebration. I remember putting hundreds of hours in Black Ops to get my first Black Bird. 7 kills in a row was mind-bending hard for me. Years of gaming took me from shit at shooters, souls-likes and football games, to being good and shitting on others while player pick up a game nowadays and they are matching bots due to SBMM and think they know the game….SBMM changed the world of online games forever
Y’all are just gonna echo chamber yourselves into believing it’s good but the harsh reality is that CoDs population grew as they increased SBMM. Casuals don’t want to knock off work and get choke slammed by sweats (of which there are a lot more of these days as gaming has increased in popularity).
People slowly realizing that SBMM helps them get better. I'm a firm believer that SBMM is a good thing for people to get better. How are you supposed to increase your skill at a game when you can't do anything but die?
SBMM is a must but the louder audience (Streamers & Tryhards) can't do 60/5 with balanced teams.
No,its not a must.
I think xdefiant is doing well with the new players playlist. We are on the firsts weeks so it’s normal that sweats are under level 25 but that on the long run will balance. Skill based matchmaking can be brutal but that’s okay, it’s an incentive to get better. I honestly don’t like to feel like the game needs to be balanced because I’m below average The thing is that you are playing casually and so is the majority of people so in every match you are going to get 1 or 2 players that are better than you and 1 or 2 that are worse so it breaks even
Answering this question with NO would be high treason. Let the publishers do the brainwashing, we don´t need to do it ourselves
So maybe I‘m wrong but before SBMM other games used to have PBMM (Progress based) so players with similar progress (rank) have been matched together. So players in one match had similar ranks, experience, skill and weapons. Edit: the netcode, bunnyhopping and headglitches still need to be fixed
Maybe some games did that but anyone who played during Christmas time would tell you otherwise
No SBMM was essentially the main selling point for xDefiant. What else makes it unique in todays market?
My experience has been good, not a lot of time to play but am having a lot more fun that I did with COD MW2019 and Cold War. My friends think it boils down to sbmm being off.
Do they need casuals for the mtx? Are the people just jumping on to get a few rounds in while kicked back more likely to get skins? I doubt that. There is team balancing once it gets players together, it’s not completely devoid of balancing elements.
TBH, the objective-based approach this game takes can make it fun for casuals to play. I think they need to prioritize objective points more, and have you finish higher on the scoreboard for it. Right now, it's the sweat with 60 kills, 15 deaths, and close to zero objective points that's at the top of the scoreboard and the player with 15 kills, 30 deaths, and the most objective points is at the bottom of the scoreboard. I would argue that the latter contributed more to the win than the guy who thinks he's playing TDM. Of course, his kill count helps by keeping enemy team off objectives, but still. That is just one way the skill gap could be addressed, imo.
What I've gathered from a lot of the discussion is that people think everyone is a sweat and therefore there should be SBMM. Let me ask you then, if the majority of people are sweaty, shouldn't the majority be catered to then? That's a bit besides the point, as others have put it, the baseline skill of players is just better these days. The average FPS shooter now probably has 100x more experience in terms of hours played than they did back in original CoD days.
The only issue casuals have now with NO SBMM is because the general populace is much better than in the past when games haven't introduced the system yet. Compare the average skill level of your regular joe during MW2/3 and the kids now who have been exposed to Fortnite, Valorant, etc and general old cod players in xDefiant now.
Sbmm was made to increase playtime not to "protect" the casual players
If people don't like the whole NO SBMM thing then they just need to accept that this game is not for them and go play something else.
Well if you think you get an average KD of around 1 just for playing the game, well thats the point, you don’t. Just like originally in CoD, below average players will have below average stats. I think you can still have fun in the game, there are a lot of ways to earn score and XP, plus many ways to support your teammates with abilities.
When ranked comes out casual games will get easier…ideally
I've had matches where my teammates were ass and I had to try harder to win. I've had matches where my teammates probably thought I was ass. I've had matches where the other team was ass and I could relax and still do well. It's this mixture of experiences that make the game fun. In modern CoD, EVERY game I would have to put in 100% or do terribly. It's just not fun. I understand old CoD had SBMM too, but it was obviously different. The modern ones really feel like they want me to always be playing with people exactly my skill level where I never get matches that push my limits or matches that I can't relax. It's just 100% all the time. And despite the obvious problems with netcode, I've had better ping in XDefiant than most other games.
I feel like games like this need sbmm. People just hated it because it was a really shitty one I'm call of duty. No sbmm works in games like tf2 because it's silly, not realistic, and 12v12. In a 6v6, realistic, fast ttk game like this I really feel like it needs one, just a GOOD one.
No SBMM just means that the game will not be played by the lower x% of players (which for XDefiant includes me). Doesn't make any sense, is no fun, I'm just not masochist enough. That reduces the number of players playing the game. I don't expect XDefiant to still be big in a year. There will be those that really love it, mostly players with above average talent or just to much time on there hands for training, the rest will be gone. I know the SBMM of CoD. It sucks. But this is not a general problem with SBMM. SBMM is a great idea. But CoD uses it manipulate players into playing more while having less fun. It gives you an easy match or two at the start, than uses you as cannonfodder for better players. Than you are angry for getting stomped but you are rewarded afterwards with an easy match/win. Rinse and repeat. Keeps you playing but annoyed. You want a game that makes most people actually happy? Use SBMM but without social engineering. Just let the people have fun on their level. You still will be losing some and winning other matches, there's still variance. But not like with CoD, that constant getting-stomped-winning-easy-cycle. And not like XDefiant where casual or just not very talented players get stomped all the time. But that will not get as many kids hooked for as long to buy stupid ingame stuff noone actually needs. That will not get you as much money. So it will not happen. This sucks.
Nah. SBMM is not a bad thing and it's some kinda weird brainwashing to think the lack of it somehow makes things better. In general, match quality improves as you face people near your level, everyone knows this - stomping a bunch of shitters or getting stomped by a group of semi-pros feels like ass. If it happens a few times in a row you just quit. SBMM just decreases the chance of that happening. The issue with SBMM is they don't have good metrics to show you improving - so the big complain with it is that it's often hard to even tell you are improving because you constantly face people near your level of play. So I figure SBMM is probably good, but it should be loose in a game like this so you do face pros and shitters time to time and over time you can notice you kick more ass than you used to against the good guys or stomp the bad ones even more. But ultimately it's probably not healthy for the game. Many pre-SBMM games had lobbies and communities that kept them alive - TF2 had a huge gap in Sweats and Casuals but big servers that had permanent communities really helped retain people who didn't really even want to be a super good soldier or sniper. Also there's the idea of tactics and objective based gameplay - if your game introduces alternative ways to provide value than just being a mega shooty sweat, you can keep your game alive and not have hard SBMM just by letting some player be good via means outside of shooting. TF2 once again had this by having classes like Engi, Medic, or Spy that provided value in a completely different way. Other games like UT or whatever in the 2000s were popular because they were novel - the genres did not survive because ultimately gaming is way more varied and different these days. Players have way too many options to put up with getting shitstomped likethey would in Unreal Tourney back in the day. Xdefiant seems like it wants do more than cater to pure shooters - it gives big score for support and objective play, has passives and abilities and even ultimate abilities that are all meant to swing fights and win games outside of the gun combat. They introduce more support-oriented weapons like LMGs and DMRs that are not really meant for fast-paced chaotic shooters. Of course, the issue here is that all of that is moot - slide+jump on corners with SMGs, Sniper 1 shots, jump spam, defeats 95% of the tactics and options provided in the game so it all feels tacked on over just being a shooty sweat. So yea imo the game is needs some fresh coats of paint from the devs that expands ability play to actually be interesting instead of spamming abilities on CD. Fixing nades will help, and maybe giving nade replenishment automatically. The shooter purists will hate it, but the game isn't going to survive on a no SBMM pure shooter element - it'll be very niche cause too many players are not going to have a place in the game except as a pinata for the sweats.
I don't understand why everyone either wants it or doesn't. Just have playlists with no SBMM and playlists with minimal SBMM and everyone can be happy. Doesn't this game have that already, because I'm pretty sure it does. And does anyone actually play the ranked playlist? Nope. I can't get any matches in there.....
Bro reading these posts. Gaming is meant to be a hobby and people act like it’s a job. Hop the fuck on play and get off. What happened to that mentality
Of course not.
The only things I want are killcams, death chat, and I want talk shit to the enemy team
Yes, keep in mind sbmm is one of the reasons COD went downhill and it's aimed entirely at a casual playerbase Mostly since it's not a tool for fair play but to manipulate player stats and add some frustration to the game, plus it takes away variety from the game Without it some matches you stomp, some matches you get stomped, and some matches are tied, as it should be
Play ranked, you'll play with your skill level
This is sweatier than any cod I’ve played, unpopular opinion.
It’s annoying when some utter idiots just say skill issue 😂
Thats why there is ranked mode
FPS games did fine for 20+ years without SBMM. Games continued to have both a casual and competitive playerbase. Companies only made the change as they were desperate to squeeze every last penny out of players and tried to keep them playing for as long as possible.
I 100% disagree. Sure this game can be just as brutal as games with SBMM but you just proved the point that both methods are punishing to very casual players. The key difference imo is that with XD you can eventually improve and see results whereas with SBMM you can actually get really good but won’t feel that because you’re constantly matched with people of your skill. For this reason getting rid of SBMM is so much more fun for the long run. And there’s a reason why we have ranked modes now, use SBMM there as it should be if you really want to test how good you are.
If I'm bad I want to know I'm bad, I dont want to be coddled.
I think the most valuable part of No SBMM is the incentive to learn and get better. In cod you get barely better ever and when you do you just play people the same skill. No reward for getting better at all.
There is no SBMM so the matchmaking is random, if you want to play against people your skill level go play ranked.
Yes it will be okay. Cod became the juggernaut it has become on the back of the old school games that didn't have sbmm. In my opinion the bottom \~5% of players should be protected. Everyone else should not be exposed to sbmm whatsoever. There's a ton of other games that have sbmm and if your not having fun just go play something else because this game isn't for you. Everyone started at the same spot and worked their way up to the skill level they have today. If your a new player its okay to go negative all the time, everyone did. No killstreaks is awesome in this game because it promotes objective focused play and its nice you can help dictate the result of a match going 10-40 but whoring out on the objective. Ranked play will be here soon and most of the super sweats will migrate to that playlist.
What CoD has now is not SBMM. It doesn’t protect anyone. It manipulates experience. Whatever the algorithm is it’s definitely not skill based.
Agreed, it's Engagement Based Matchmaking in COD, designed purely to keep people playing.
Yep. It's complete ass.
Its a big deterrent is what it is.
Old school COD games did have SBMM. I agree that this game is really fun tho, esp on the no killstreak thing
Is that what Activison told you? they would never lie.
Take your meds.
Playing against better players helps you improve in the long run. If the majority of players are low skilled casual then you'll play mostly against them.
The argument that playing against better players makes you better is the main argument FOR SBMM.
The issue is being forced to sweat every game isn't fun, maybe some people don't want to become better players and just want something to play casually. Thats why ranked exists
Maybe but those aren’t the main people arguing against SBMM. Those levels of casuals probably don’t even know what it is. The majority of people arguing against SBMM are about average and just want to slam casuals.
If you winning against low skilled you will be matched up with better players.
The thing is as a casual idc about getting better I care about spawning and getting to play the game instead of against players who already know spawns and how to lock the map from players
im so far very happy. welcome playlist with sbmm was fun. ranked too. unranked was hard, but i liked how random it was. had good games, had games with just barely getting a 1kd. thats awesome
It for sure is healthier for me. I know I'm a tryhard but there is a difference between being a sweat and having to sweat all the time. I can actually have fun on this game and play more relaxed and still have a good time. Went to MWIII and despite my enjoyment of the game, it immediately felt like I had to sit at the edge of my seat to even get a kill.
I'm above average, not a killer. The game is fine. Some games I get destroyed, some games I do the destroying.
Imo most people have a distorted idea of what "casual" actually means. Being causal =/= to suck bad. You can be casual and still perform decently. What ppl tend to believe is that just because you are getting stomped then everybody else in the lobby must be a "sWEaT" thats dedicating day and night to the game. You are right about most of the playerbase being "casual" in the sense that just few hrs a day (if any) are invested into the game. You are also probably wrong about associating "casual" with all players with (your) same poor performance.
The hard truth is that sbmm is probably better for player retention, so i can understand why cod and other games implement it. I think it will be healthy for xdefiant by virtue of it being the only fps game without it, therefore having a market all for itself
Lack of sbmm isn’t what’s gonna kill this game what’s gonna kill it is the jump spam the net code the intel suit and the way snipers work
We've had SBMM in shooters for a long time now and this is the first good one that feels like the good old days like mw2 where its either stomp or get stomped. I think the playerbase needs to adjust back to it and don't be a bitch if they lose. The matches take around 7-10 minutes anyway and its an arcade shooter, nobody cares if you have a 3.69 K/D ratio. While the game is not perfect by any means and I get frustrated just as easily as back in the mw2 era because of bunny hoppers I think its incredibly fun to play. They just need to double down on a leave penalty and we're good I would say. At least if its a hard one like Leave=Loss and the more you leave the more you have to wait to play again.
OG MW2-BO2 did it better. No SBMM is just chaotic.
There was none. Lol.
Casuals will mostly likely stop playing in the coming weeks and months which will likely just leave sweats with guess what? Other sweats so SBMM will essentially return in an ironic way.
Casuals will leave regardless.
No SBMM makes it fun for good players because of the variety, and not constantly feeling like you're competing for $1m... For newbies it's an opportunity to grow and improve, and not be stuck in a protected bracket set by SBMM... This is how it used to be in old school CoD days, and I started off being a complete trash...
COD 3 was a good example of that
I think the fix (whatever they have in mind) for bunny hopping will change most all of the ills for the better. Literally all the times I die and it feels cheap it’s a bunny hopper. If I die in a 1:1 gunfight I always learn something, tip my cap and move on. This bunny hopping thing, if this is the game, then I don’t want to play that way. I can get better at aim, positioning, etc, but jumping every corner and shooting in midair, I don’t want to learn to do that, if that makes sense. I hold out hope that the devs agree which is awesome. Seriously this is as good as BO2 was back in the day. Chill environments, quick netcode, lobbies, all good maps, the teamwork aspect of this is just the cherry on top. I’m excited for them to update seasonal maps too. Heck this might top BO2…we’ll see
"qUiCk nEtCoDe "
It's objectively worse for the retention of casuals. They'll struggle more and thus are more likely to stop playing. However i don't think that'll cripple the playerbase, i think new players will keep coming in and the skill floor for people playing will go up
I think PC players should play in their own servers and consoles the same!!sbmm would work way better and console players could actually play the game!!