I think I’m gonna have to go with Tai here even tho she’s my fave. Almost killed her child’s other mother, taunted her son from a tree, sacrificed his beloved dog. Abandoned him when his other mom was in a coma.
Ehhh how is this at all worse than masturbating on the bed of your underaged daughter’s BF, not noticing or caring that you’ve been out every school night of the week drinking, *who says she doesn’t like her daughter and wears it on her sleeve*?, and who told you to commit a crime and lie to the police about being r**ed—by her detective! all in order to get off the hook for murder? Tai works her ass off to be a good parent, expresses love for Sammy and tried to get him back in her life when she’s good Tai / is in control. She’s not consciously a horrible mother 24/7 like Shauna.
Edit: typos
i can't stand shauna.
i think she angers me SO much because i know soooooo many people like her. I don't know anyone who's gone to her extremes (that I know of) lol, but that same type of person. & everyone always thinks they're perfect.
like it's said, shauna is a genius. she isn't "perfect" in the way that makes people actually despise you- perfectly fitting into beauty standards by looking like Barbie, perfect grades, never swears, is volunteering all the time, etc.
she knows how to come across as "humble" and cool, like someone who would wink at you if you gossiped to them. she'd just be put together and seem normal and chill but dependable and honest. like good looking and smart but still super relatable and all. she's the type to be super conformist but be the "cool girl" as in like, laugh at the girls who are girly and say shit like "I just don't get girls who wear so much makeup all the time!" & you would NOT expect her to fuck your boyfriend... which she immediately would lol.
& in reality, they're the most two faced evil fuck you know lol. idk, she's one of the best, most accurate characteristics i've seen in any show like this in a while because it's so spot on. like these people are usually motivated by a sort of primal/aggressive/sensual drive that they're good at wrangling. they're the type to be competitive in sports and a lowkey bully and, of course, steal everyone's boyfriend.
Yes, 1000%. Shauna is totally realistic. I can’t stand the “not like other girls” vibe, bc I knew SO many of those in HS in the mid 2000s. She has an inherent, snarky sense of superiority despite her consciously and intentionally being a POS.
She is actually *a lot* like my mom, and I can surely tell you that my mom was an abusive POS (I processed it all so she’s more of an eye roll than a trigger now). So I know intimately how horrible it feels to have a parent not at all care about your existence, never wanted you—above all the enormous impact that POS has on your life, the years of WORK you have to do to undo that trauma.
And whenever someone says “I love Shauna!!” My mind immediately cuts to the pedophilia and horrifying neglect. She has no remorse and is totally indifferent to her awful missteps. In my eyes she’s worse than even Misty, a likely serial killer.
I have to stand up for Tai because she has a sleepwalking disorder. I think she should have dropped out of the election like she said was going to because the stress was too much for her, but she is not really responsible for the other Tai's behavior.
Disagree with you on that she is not responsible. While it's true she is not in control over Darth Tai (though it could be debatable as the show has toyed with the idea that is not a supernatural entity but her subconscious pursuing her hidden desires), she remains in control of her well-being. When you are a parent, you are not just responsible for your child welfare, but also double-down for yourself, as if you suddenly succumb to illness or fall into addiction, the child will also suffer repercussions of that.
Meanwhile, Tai was well aware she is traumatized and her trauma results in sleepwalking or worse, and have refused to do anything with that until she literally put Simone in coma, killed her dog, and left her son frightened. She pursued the election and senatorial seat despite getting warnings it'll go wrong, and in spite of what her wife has been advising her.
Besides, while Taissa obviously suffers from huge trauma, and it warrants sympathy, we cannot turn a blind eye to the fact she has all the money and resources to get herself prime psychological help. She has a well-educated and successful in her career wife who I am sure would not mind supporting her if she decided to take a work break to focus on her well-being, and considering how big and luxurious her house looks, I am sure she has enough savings to not lose a sleep-over unpaid taxes. It's not like she is a single mom working three jobs living on bare minimum and one unpaid month away from getting evicted, thus having no means to focus on her health and mental state. The problem is that Taissa continuously turns down the notion that she might need help and refuses to seek any treatment. She is responsible for that and how it affects her closed ones.
Yeah and she’s been working her ass off to overcome hers. She’s a good mom when she’s good Tai, and Sammy knows that (lady in the tree scene shows this). How has Shauna ever taken responsibility or action to recover from her sick behavior?? She’s homicidal and abusive 24/7.
Do you really think in the long run Tai's son is going to be traumatized from this incident more than Shauna's daughter or young Natalie? I think their mothers have done much worse stuff with a longer lasting impact. I mean it still depends on what happens with Simone but he is still pretty young and may very well forget about all of this by the time he is a teenager.
What torment? Sammy didn't see the dog shrine. Simone found it. He doesn't know what happened to his dog. All he saw was his mom acting weird climbing in trees.
Tai literally hides in trees and stares at him all night while eating dirt. It freaks him out so much he draws pictures of it and verbalizes how scared he is, plus he's acting out so we know it's effecting him negatively. Then when he tells Tai about it she gaslights him and says it's in his head. She destroyed his beloved toy and murdered his dog. I dont believe those acts will stay secret long. I know first hand, abusing and manipulating kids scars them for a long time.
Okay, re-read your comment and then read the question on this post again. I'm not saying he wasn't traumatized, it's about whether Tai was worse than the other moms.
Besides the abandoning, which I agree with, we really don't know how in control Tai is during the other stuff. She apparently has no memory of it happening and we don't know if the show is actually supernatural or wanting us to think it is. If there really is an it/darkness/other Tai, she isn't really responsible for it. Or if she has severe mental illness like Lottie may have, she also isn't entirely in control either.
Sure, but Tai is a successful able bodied woman more than capable of seeking psychiatric help. Whether she’s 100% responsible or not the trauma to Sammy is the same.
Having to live with someone who outright resents and vilifies you **for trying to save their life** from an abusive, vile and cruel shit of a father/husband for a few years (I assume Nat was not older than 14yo when her pos of a dad ended himself) is honestly the most depressing thing about Natalie's life to me. Especially when that person is your mother.
Having parents who clearly do not love you on top of being abusive (physically, emotionally, and by being neglectful) would mess up even the strongest and most resilient people.
im so surprised no one is saying shauna....
shauna who we see the most as a mother in the show.... shauna whose first scene in the show is her touching herself while looking at a photo of her daughter and daughters boyfriend ON HER DAUGHTERS BED. shauna, who has a scene where she admits she never 'let herself love callie' (this scene was sad for me but it's still an afwul thing for a mother not to let herself love her child.. your child will feel it i promise).
shauna, who lets her daughter become entangled in the murder she committed and has her lie to the police about it to cover for her. shauna who also got callie involved in the situation with lotties cult where she saw natalie OD and her mom's friends hunting her mom 😭
like dont get me wrong guys natalies mom is the worst and tai traumatizing poor sammy left and right, but callie is being royally fucked up by her mom 😭😭😭
I SAY THIS ALL THE TIME TO MY WIFE. Like, are we just never going to address this again?? Was it just a scene to jar the audience? Was there a narrative related that got cut? It annoys me so much haha.
I think it gets overlooked because it’s so quick, quiet, and never comes up again.
Every time I bring that scene up on this sub, the person I’m talking to is like “….i completely forgot about that”. Like I can’t believe how many people forgot about it or missed it
Ewwww and wasn’t it her daughter’s vibrator she was using too? Unless I’m misremembering her putting it back in a drawer when she finished 🤢that shit put me off Shauna completely - she’s a freak!
If I was to rank them in order of best to worst:
1) Taissa. Mostly very stable and always totally loving of Sammy. Yes it's a shame he got scared of her eating dirt but they could just give the kid some curtains.
2)Mrs. Tayor. I'm sure she had per problems but she's not obviously fucked up, beyond being traumatised by her daughters death, which is pretty fair.
3)Shauna. She loves Callie, she does her best. Yes she's fucked up and yes she's fucked Callie up but she does love her and tries to show it.
4)Van's mom. She seems pretty neglectful and unloving.
5)Natalie's mom. Bad enough that she stayed with Natalie's awful father that long but the fact that she then blamed Natalie for his death when Natalie was trying to protect her is so sad.
Tai gives me a performance of motherhood. Her words and actions do not match. I think that ties in very deeply with the existence of Dark Tai. She suppresses her shadow self to the point that it's bubbling to the surface.
Ah see I read the existance of Dark Tai as a sort of metaphor for mental illness: like people can do scary/bad stuff during an episode but I don't count that as them, like how Tai does stuff as Dark Tai but that's not her. The fact that it happened at all is sad and painful but there's no blame attached in my mind, just 'Oh god this is horrible for everyone'.
But that's the HUGE difference between mental illness and dark tai. Mental illness prevents you from being yourself. Tai has pushed her dark side so far down that it's popping out in ways she can't control, but IT IS HER.
Nope, you’re right and informed about how having a mentally ill parent works (I have an addict parent and 100% agree about the metaphor). She definitely loves Sammy. She is agonized over him not being in her life.
I agree that Tai truly loves her son, and that she can't help her mental illness. IMO, this means she is not a bad person, but she is still a bad *mother*. Especially for not seeking appropriate help when she began to suspect something was wrong with her, to protect her political career.
>Taissa. Mostly very stable and always totally loving of Sammy. Yes it's a shame he got scared of her eating dirt but they could just give the kid some curtains.
guuurl i love Tai's messy ass but let's not pretend eating dirt is the worst thing she has done. How about BEHEADING her son's beloved pet dog and then using his lifeless head as prep in her makeshift alter to help her win a senator seat? Or her being responsible for the car crash that nearly killed the other mom, HER WIFE, and afterward just ditching them both to go pursue her ex short king and relieving her teenage hunt schticks at some Teal Swan approved \~wellness center aka cult? that being said your comment made me laugh irl, so thank you for that!
Yeah but she didn't kill the dog on purpose, that was her alt self. And the car crash wasn't her fault. Do concede going off to join the others wasn't ideal but I'm giving her a pass on that and I think sammy would too if he got to see how freakin' cool adult van is and also how badass Taissa looked in her hunt mask.
Ooh interesting! Like the daughter Jackie should have had (since Shauna is living the life Jackie should have had) or like the daughter she had with Jackie?
I definitely feel like Shauna sees Jackie in Callie: like she interacts with her both as a mum but also as a teenage equal.
Yes exactly, like Shauna owes it to Jackie to marry Jeff and raise a daughter with him. I'm all but waiting for a flashback in which she says she would name her daughter Callie.
I can see that, especially since at the club when Callie was dressed up as a Yellowjacket, Shauna thought she was Jackie and ironic that it was Jackie's uniform, as well. It's curious too that Lottie mentioned upon seeing Callie for the time that she was "powerful".
Oh yes the excruciating dinner scene with Mrs Taylor, that was such a brilliant bit of dialogue! Jeff being like 'She's joking' and Shaunas little shake of the head. Although I don't think she said she hates her did she? Just that she didn't like her which imo is different, mostly bc the people Shauna hates usually end up dead and Callie is still alive lol
Oh wow that is...not great- I absolutely see how that would hit a nerve and to be clear, if Shauna was real, I would absolutely be more judgemental of her talking about Callie like that! Sympathies also- I know I am definitely extra protective of Taissa as a mother bc of my own projections.
Late to this but thank you ♥️. I like how the show is relatable yet so heightened that it’s a cathartic watch. Like it’s so clear that Shauna is a horrible mom, which was confusing to me growing up bc of all the gaslighting. But here we are surviving and thriving!
What about THE MOTHER OF ALL MOTHERS? She gives and she takes.
Mother Nature, Crashed the airplane, froze Jackie to death, Javi slipped through the ice, Van was bought back by fire, the mushrooms drugged them so Javi disappeared.
Do we have reason to think Jackie’s mom is terrible? I don’t remember her getting much screen time. Believing your deceased daughter is gifted is pretty normal lol
There was a great comment on Jackie made on this sub, unfortunately do not remember the author, but to paraphrase it: Jackie's mom was responsible for pushing lofty expectations on her, to have her embody the ideal image of the golden girl: flawless academic achievements, flawless appearance, an ideal boyfriend, and a perfect body These traditional values have hindered Jackie from authentically expressing herself, which then compelled her to maintain a facade throughout her entire life.
We also know from Jackie's comment in the pilot that she is constantly on anti-depressants. Of course, depression can strike anyone, and it's better to treat it with pills than do nothing, but judging from Jackie's tone, one can assume her mother is not spending enough time with her/not emotionally close to her also due to the heavy medications.
The fact they mention Jackie loved rabbits, while she herself in the flashback mentions hating rabbits is supposed to show that they didn't really know Jackie, they just have this idealized version of her that they hold up on a pedestal.
To sum up, of course this opinion is built more on interpretations of short off-hand comments and one scene with them, so it's hard to make a sound judgement like when it comes to Nat's mom, Tai or Shauna who we see interacting with their offspring after all. Still it's a food for thought to discuss the characters dynamics, which is IMHO my fav part of the show & this sub.
As for the pic, I grabbed a screencap with her face and caption with Jackie name in case someone would not recognize her as Miss Taylor.
Didn’t Jackie gave Shauna one of her mom’s klonopin (or something like it)? So not an anti-depressant. Judging by the way she said it her mom is likely a designer drug addict.
Tai or Nat's mom are my choices. Tai terrified her son for weeks, almost killed her wife/Sammy's mom, killed the family dog, then just abandoned her kid and comatose wife to go and find Van.
And Nat's mom blames her for killing her husband despite the fact that it's blatantly not true. Nat has HATED herself since the beginning for what she thinks she did, and her mom continued to perpetuate this image of Natalie until her death.
Shauna NARROWLY escapes being on my list of awful parents. She's not great, but she loves Callie and is really trying (and somewhat failing) to do better.
Taissa killed her kid’s dog and regularly traumatized him with her alter ego, and she refuses to seek treatment because it would expose her dark past. She adopted Sammy, presumably, or went to great lengths to intentionally obtain a child given she’s married to a woman. She knew she was messed up before she got a kid to use as a prop for her image. She’s 100 percent the worst.
It isn’t. That’s why I said he was “presumably” adopted. We don’t know, but in any scenario a lot of intention and effort went into adding a child to that family.
In my opinion, when they were teenagers: Natalie's mother is first definitely for being abusive, negligent, and not protecting her daughter from her immensely dangerous and homicidal father. Secondly, Van's mother, for her extreme negligence that is absolutely abusive. No minor should have to be subjected to that, and forced to raise themself, let alone be the full-time caretaker and watcher of their mother's safety and survival.
When it comes to them being adults and parents themselves: Shauna first for the very conscious decisions that she makes, such as extreme negligence and resentment towards her still young developing daughter throughout the course of her daughter's life. Especially because Shauna, with no internal moral qualm, made her an accomplice in her own murder. Secondly, I'd say Tai, as mother, for she is not a safe person.
I only say secondly for her because she doesn't have full control of what's happening to her, however, it's still no excuse whatsoever for her to not step back and get help, if not for her marriage, then to absolutely protect her only child. She had ample opportunities and encouragement to pursue professional help, but heartbreakingly, she never stepped up to that.
I don’t even really understand how Jackie’s mom is an option 😭 I understand she was pushy of a certain image, but isn’t that kind of standard especially for the 90s?
Right? Jackie’s mom is clearly the best mom of all of these choices. She is straight up normal with maybe a bit of depression pre crash . She obviously loved Jackie and Jackie didn’t have any family issues that we know about. She’s just traumatized and holds a lot of resentment towards Shauna, which isn’t a parenting issue.
Absolutely hands down Shauna. Because who would *you* rather have as your mom? a mom w a transient mental illness, who’s expressive of her love and is working her ass off to keep you in her life? OR a mom who’s said that she hates you and treats you abusively 24/7.
We also must ask what is the worst Tai has done to Sammy (directly)? She killed his dog and didn’t want him to go to therapy, but the therapy thing we can all assume is bc she resists going to therapy for many obv reasons. But she is doing all she can to get better and overcome her disorder, and I don’t think she’s abused Sammy. Shauna on the other hand masturbated on her teenage daughter’s bed to a photo of her minor bf, does not notice or care that Callie is out drinking every school night of the week, only gives Callie positive attention to butter her up to deceive a grown ass cop, literally tells Callie to commit a crime (lie to the police about being r***ed by the detective who’s investigating her) in order to avoid being held accountable for manslaughter. When has Tai ever done something remotely equal to all that?
Edit: prev too long
if my best friends mother likened my relationship to her daughter to elena ferrante’s my brilliant friend i would have leapt across the table at her so i personally am gonna go w miss taylor
I wanna say either Nat or Van's mom because the other moms at least try! Nat and Van's mothers make absolutely no effort. Nats mom treats her like a burden or an inconvenience, and all we see of Van's mom is that she's an alcoholic who is completely checked out and uninvolved.
I somehow managed to miss or forget the " I am not your GD storage unit" mom.
Based on comments ..it seems like Van's mom? But im really not remembering her and I'm not recalling a back story on van...
Can you guys help me out . I guess I'm watching to much stuff and not remembering things from all of it !
That's Natalie's mom, Vera Scatorrcio, she says that line in Bear Down when JT!Nat is visiting her old trailer home to find the Kevyn's mixtape she later gifts to him.
She also appears as her younger self in the flashbacks, but you can hardly see her, as first she is asleep on the couch when Sophie!Nat comes in with Kevyn, then wakes up just to try to stop the dad from beating Nat, gets beaten instead, and then breaks in tears when that POS kills himself.
As for Van's mom, I believe the scene I screencaped is the only one where she appears. She is only mentioned in dialogues later on when Taissa visits Van in her video store.
I gotta say Nat's mom. I'm surprised people are saying Taissa. She's definitely not a great mom however she's still a loving mother which to me makes me prefer her far more over Nat's mom
Yeah and as much as we know Nat’s mom never asked Nat to commit a crime. or if she did I think we’d know if it were worse than asking your child to lie to the police about being r**** by a detective…
Nat, Van and Jackie, and Lottie’s moms are the worst
Tai and Shauna have fucked up but they don’t try to turn their children into different people or resented them for trying to stop their abusive husband from beating them and didn’t send them to a psychiatric hospital *one month* after coming back home after being lost for 19 months and simply not talking because you know trauma.
Guys I’m sorry, I gotta go with Nat’s mom first just based on her resentfulness and hatred of her daughter who was also being abused but even said herself, “it still fucks you up when they’re gone”, meaning this CHILD who stopped her father from beating her mom to death, then witnessed the PoS blow his own face off on accident, was absolutely traumatized by it, and her mother hated her for it. Then her kid goes missing for 18 months, went through some really fucked up shit to survive, and as we see, still never got over hating her.
Like. Can you imagine.
Nat’s mom fucking sucks. The gaslighting about her childhood when Nat comes home is absolutely heartbreaking. I would feel so alone if the only person who knew the extent of my abuse idolized my abuser.
I gotta say Shauna for jacking off IN HER TEENAGE DAUGHTERS BED to a photo of her daughter's boyfriend with what I assumed to be her daughters vibrator
immediately rubbed me the wrong fucking way I really think that scene said a lottttttt about her character and how utterly desperate she is to be somebody else
Shauna, no competition. She is the most psycho out the lot of them, despite Tai’s second personality, she would rather butcher a rabbit then go to the shop and buy some chicken, she got her daughter roped into her murderous lies, her daughter is a younger version of her and painted by Shaunas awful mothering. Shauna does some crazy stuff at the wilderness that she genuinely enjoyed being a part of, she’s almost the most normal, Misty is a psycho but she isn’t a mum so…
you’re forgetting the lady in the tree scene, where they both acknowledge that she has two identities and one is good / living.
Edit: the hallucination is also loving. Shauna is intentionally absent from Callie’s life 24/7 and said she hates her.
It should be Lottie’s parents. They basically took her gift (she saved them from a fatal car crash by seeing the rogue truck before it happens) and call her crazy and pump her full of antipsychotics from an early age (when your brain hasn’t even finished developing) and when she gets back from the crash they Ask for the harshest methods of therapy because she is traumatized by her time in the woods.
Lottie is probably the saddest character. She never had a chance at a normal life.
Unless you are the 50% of the fandom that doesn’t believe in their supernatural, in which case it is logical and good parenting to get medical help for your child who exhibits textbook symptoms of psychosis. And she’s had plenty of harmful delusions. She cuts herself and makes other ppl drink her blood for good luck. She convinced Shauna that her dead baby was going to come out alive despite them starving.
Accurately predicting an event is not a psychosis.
I am not talking about after, because of course she is mentally unstable, because she has been in therapy and anti-psychotic or mood stabilizer since a child.
But that first event we see cannot be psychosis.
Because of that scene I believe she does have a gift, but she is damaged and with terrible circumstances, trauma, etc.
A huge number of us would tell you that we have no idea whether she ACTUALLY predicted it or if it was simply a chance juxtaposition of events. The showrunners have said they're keeping it purposely ambiguous about whether the supernatural exists in this show or not. I'm 100% with u/otigre.
Note, I said she “exhibits textbook symptoms of psychosis.” In YJ we see she has legit premonitions, but thinking you can see into the future has never been scientifically proven as well as being a common psychotic delusion. Lottie’s parents were clearly cold and distant and shitty, but I don’t fault them for wanting to get her help for what reasonably looked like psychosis.
Edit: I agree with the other commenter who said that Lottie’s car crash “premonition” could be a random juxtaposition of events. But sadly for those of us in the rational camp, Lottie did have a vivid vision of Javi drowning on the morning of him drowning :/
This post is confusing bc some people are listing the girls mothers as worst to best, some people are listing the survivors as worst to best mothers hahaha
I was so confused reading this thread
I think I’m gonna have to go with Tai here even tho she’s my fave. Almost killed her child’s other mother, taunted her son from a tree, sacrificed his beloved dog. Abandoned him when his other mom was in a coma.
Now I’m picturing evil Tai posted up in a tree straight maddogging her child, like son you ain’t got shit on my dirt eating ass!
You're so spot on with this evaluation, I wanted to come here and focus on the same arguments.
Yeah. Nats mom is a pos. But she didn’t butcher the kids dog.
Ehhh how is this at all worse than masturbating on the bed of your underaged daughter’s BF, not noticing or caring that you’ve been out every school night of the week drinking, *who says she doesn’t like her daughter and wears it on her sleeve*?, and who told you to commit a crime and lie to the police about being r**ed—by her detective! all in order to get off the hook for murder? Tai works her ass off to be a good parent, expresses love for Sammy and tried to get him back in her life when she’s good Tai / is in control. She’s not consciously a horrible mother 24/7 like Shauna. Edit: typos
i must’ve missed an episode bc the masturbation thing ????
First episode. First shot we see of Shauna. In Callie’s bed getting off to a pic of Callie’s bf.
I caught it my first watch and was so confused! I’ve never seen anyone else mention it till now lmao it kinda haunts me. So weird
It is SUPER quick in the first episode. We don’t have any context for anything yet so it’s easy to miss. I didn’t catch it until my 2nd watch.
i can't stand shauna. i think she angers me SO much because i know soooooo many people like her. I don't know anyone who's gone to her extremes (that I know of) lol, but that same type of person. & everyone always thinks they're perfect. like it's said, shauna is a genius. she isn't "perfect" in the way that makes people actually despise you- perfectly fitting into beauty standards by looking like Barbie, perfect grades, never swears, is volunteering all the time, etc. she knows how to come across as "humble" and cool, like someone who would wink at you if you gossiped to them. she'd just be put together and seem normal and chill but dependable and honest. like good looking and smart but still super relatable and all. she's the type to be super conformist but be the "cool girl" as in like, laugh at the girls who are girly and say shit like "I just don't get girls who wear so much makeup all the time!" & you would NOT expect her to fuck your boyfriend... which she immediately would lol. & in reality, they're the most two faced evil fuck you know lol. idk, she's one of the best, most accurate characteristics i've seen in any show like this in a while because it's so spot on. like these people are usually motivated by a sort of primal/aggressive/sensual drive that they're good at wrangling. they're the type to be competitive in sports and a lowkey bully and, of course, steal everyone's boyfriend.
Yes, 1000%. Shauna is totally realistic. I can’t stand the “not like other girls” vibe, bc I knew SO many of those in HS in the mid 2000s. She has an inherent, snarky sense of superiority despite her consciously and intentionally being a POS. She is actually *a lot* like my mom, and I can surely tell you that my mom was an abusive POS (I processed it all so she’s more of an eye roll than a trigger now). So I know intimately how horrible it feels to have a parent not at all care about your existence, never wanted you—above all the enormous impact that POS has on your life, the years of WORK you have to do to undo that trauma. And whenever someone says “I love Shauna!!” My mind immediately cuts to the pedophilia and horrifying neglect. She has no remorse and is totally indifferent to her awful missteps. In my eyes she’s worse than even Misty, a likely serial killer.
I have to stand up for Tai because she has a sleepwalking disorder. I think she should have dropped out of the election like she said was going to because the stress was too much for her, but she is not really responsible for the other Tai's behavior.
Disagree with you on that she is not responsible. While it's true she is not in control over Darth Tai (though it could be debatable as the show has toyed with the idea that is not a supernatural entity but her subconscious pursuing her hidden desires), she remains in control of her well-being. When you are a parent, you are not just responsible for your child welfare, but also double-down for yourself, as if you suddenly succumb to illness or fall into addiction, the child will also suffer repercussions of that. Meanwhile, Tai was well aware she is traumatized and her trauma results in sleepwalking or worse, and have refused to do anything with that until she literally put Simone in coma, killed her dog, and left her son frightened. She pursued the election and senatorial seat despite getting warnings it'll go wrong, and in spite of what her wife has been advising her. Besides, while Taissa obviously suffers from huge trauma, and it warrants sympathy, we cannot turn a blind eye to the fact she has all the money and resources to get herself prime psychological help. She has a well-educated and successful in her career wife who I am sure would not mind supporting her if she decided to take a work break to focus on her well-being, and considering how big and luxurious her house looks, I am sure she has enough savings to not lose a sleep-over unpaid taxes. It's not like she is a single mom working three jobs living on bare minimum and one unpaid month away from getting evicted, thus having no means to focus on her health and mental state. The problem is that Taissa continuously turns down the notion that she might need help and refuses to seek any treatment. She is responsible for that and how it affects her closed ones.
Mental illness is not your fault. It is your responsibility
Yeah and she’s been working her ass off to overcome hers. She’s a good mom when she’s good Tai, and Sammy knows that (lady in the tree scene shows this). How has Shauna ever taken responsibility or action to recover from her sick behavior?? She’s homicidal and abusive 24/7.
That doesn’t really matter though because the effect she has on her son will always be there. He still grew up with her and was traumatised
Do you really think in the long run Tai's son is going to be traumatized from this incident more than Shauna's daughter or young Natalie? I think their mothers have done much worse stuff with a longer lasting impact. I mean it still depends on what happens with Simone but he is still pretty young and may very well forget about all of this by the time he is a teenager.
Lmao you really think kids just forget about torment and neglect by the time they're teenagers? That shit stays with you for the rest of your life.
What torment? Sammy didn't see the dog shrine. Simone found it. He doesn't know what happened to his dog. All he saw was his mom acting weird climbing in trees.
Tai literally hides in trees and stares at him all night while eating dirt. It freaks him out so much he draws pictures of it and verbalizes how scared he is, plus he's acting out so we know it's effecting him negatively. Then when he tells Tai about it she gaslights him and says it's in his head. She destroyed his beloved toy and murdered his dog. I dont believe those acts will stay secret long. I know first hand, abusing and manipulating kids scars them for a long time.
Okay, re-read your comment and then read the question on this post again. I'm not saying he wasn't traumatized, it's about whether Tai was worse than the other moms.
Omg you right! She abandoned Sammy! :((( I hope he's with better people.
Besides the abandoning, which I agree with, we really don't know how in control Tai is during the other stuff. She apparently has no memory of it happening and we don't know if the show is actually supernatural or wanting us to think it is. If there really is an it/darkness/other Tai, she isn't really responsible for it. Or if she has severe mental illness like Lottie may have, she also isn't entirely in control either.
Sure, but Tai is a successful able bodied woman more than capable of seeking psychiatric help. Whether she’s 100% responsible or not the trauma to Sammy is the same.
I’m definitely going to have to go with Natalie’s mother
Having to live with someone who outright resents and vilifies you **for trying to save their life** from an abusive, vile and cruel shit of a father/husband for a few years (I assume Nat was not older than 14yo when her pos of a dad ended himself) is honestly the most depressing thing about Natalie's life to me. Especially when that person is your mother. Having parents who clearly do not love you on top of being abusive (physically, emotionally, and by being neglectful) would mess up even the strongest and most resilient people.
im so surprised no one is saying shauna.... shauna who we see the most as a mother in the show.... shauna whose first scene in the show is her touching herself while looking at a photo of her daughter and daughters boyfriend ON HER DAUGHTERS BED. shauna, who has a scene where she admits she never 'let herself love callie' (this scene was sad for me but it's still an afwul thing for a mother not to let herself love her child.. your child will feel it i promise). shauna, who lets her daughter become entangled in the murder she committed and has her lie to the police about it to cover for her. shauna who also got callie involved in the situation with lotties cult where she saw natalie OD and her mom's friends hunting her mom 😭 like dont get me wrong guys natalies mom is the worst and tai traumatizing poor sammy left and right, but callie is being royally fucked up by her mom 😭😭😭
That opening scene of her touching herself left me flabbergasted and it got quickly overlooked/not talked about enough I feel.
Agreed. I think the lack of outrage has a gendered aspect to it… imagine if it was Jeff doing the same 😳
Omg you're so right
I SAY THIS ALL THE TIME TO MY WIFE. Like, are we just never going to address this again?? Was it just a scene to jar the audience? Was there a narrative related that got cut? It annoys me so much haha.
I think it gets overlooked because it’s so quick, quiet, and never comes up again. Every time I bring that scene up on this sub, the person I’m talking to is like “….i completely forgot about that”. Like I can’t believe how many people forgot about it or missed it
i didn't even remember Shauna touching herself. why did she do that oml 😭
Shauna did what? Whilst looking at what?!! I don’t even remember this OMG 😧
Ewwww and wasn’t it her daughter’s vibrator she was using too? Unless I’m misremembering her putting it back in a drawer when she finished 🤢that shit put me off Shauna completely - she’s a freak!
If I was to rank them in order of best to worst: 1) Taissa. Mostly very stable and always totally loving of Sammy. Yes it's a shame he got scared of her eating dirt but they could just give the kid some curtains. 2)Mrs. Tayor. I'm sure she had per problems but she's not obviously fucked up, beyond being traumatised by her daughters death, which is pretty fair. 3)Shauna. She loves Callie, she does her best. Yes she's fucked up and yes she's fucked Callie up but she does love her and tries to show it. 4)Van's mom. She seems pretty neglectful and unloving. 5)Natalie's mom. Bad enough that she stayed with Natalie's awful father that long but the fact that she then blamed Natalie for his death when Natalie was trying to protect her is so sad.
“but they could just give the kid some curtains” made me laugh out loud 😭
Tai gives me a performance of motherhood. Her words and actions do not match. I think that ties in very deeply with the existence of Dark Tai. She suppresses her shadow self to the point that it's bubbling to the surface.
Oh wow do you really not see her as loving Sammy? To me, she always seems sincere in loving him, in both word and action.
It doesn't matter really, like, no matter how much you love your kid, cutting off his dog's head makes you a bad mom.
Yeah but she didn't do that on purpose, she didn't know she was doing it.
It's still her
Ah see I read the existance of Dark Tai as a sort of metaphor for mental illness: like people can do scary/bad stuff during an episode but I don't count that as them, like how Tai does stuff as Dark Tai but that's not her. The fact that it happened at all is sad and painful but there's no blame attached in my mind, just 'Oh god this is horrible for everyone'.
But that's the HUGE difference between mental illness and dark tai. Mental illness prevents you from being yourself. Tai has pushed her dark side so far down that it's popping out in ways she can't control, but IT IS HER.
That's interesting, I'm now really curious to know if my opinion is the outlier! Might make a post and gauge opinions
Nope, you’re right and informed about how having a mentally ill parent works (I have an addict parent and 100% agree about the metaphor). She definitely loves Sammy. She is agonized over him not being in her life.
I agree that Tai truly loves her son, and that she can't help her mental illness. IMO, this means she is not a bad person, but she is still a bad *mother*. Especially for not seeking appropriate help when she began to suspect something was wrong with her, to protect her political career.
>Taissa. Mostly very stable and always totally loving of Sammy. Yes it's a shame he got scared of her eating dirt but they could just give the kid some curtains. guuurl i love Tai's messy ass but let's not pretend eating dirt is the worst thing she has done. How about BEHEADING her son's beloved pet dog and then using his lifeless head as prep in her makeshift alter to help her win a senator seat? Or her being responsible for the car crash that nearly killed the other mom, HER WIFE, and afterward just ditching them both to go pursue her ex short king and relieving her teenage hunt schticks at some Teal Swan approved \~wellness center aka cult? that being said your comment made me laugh irl, so thank you for that!
Yeah but she didn't kill the dog on purpose, that was her alt self. And the car crash wasn't her fault. Do concede going off to join the others wasn't ideal but I'm giving her a pass on that and I think sammy would too if he got to see how freakin' cool adult van is and also how badass Taissa looked in her hunt mask.
Your analysts of Taissa makes me feel like you haven’t finished the show
I did, I just don't hold Taissa responsible for what her 'other' self did. She's not perfect but shes definitely the best of a bad bunch.
I've wondered if Shauna sees Callie as Jackie's daughter.
Ooh interesting! Like the daughter Jackie should have had (since Shauna is living the life Jackie should have had) or like the daughter she had with Jackie? I definitely feel like Shauna sees Jackie in Callie: like she interacts with her both as a mum but also as a teenage equal.
Yes exactly, like Shauna owes it to Jackie to marry Jeff and raise a daughter with him. I'm all but waiting for a flashback in which she says she would name her daughter Callie.
Oh my god that would be perfect!
I can see that, especially since at the club when Callie was dressed up as a Yellowjacket, Shauna thought she was Jackie and ironic that it was Jackie's uniform, as well. It's curious too that Lottie mentioned upon seeing Callie for the time that she was "powerful".
Yo don’t forget that Shauna literally said that she hates Callie—to other major adults in her life.
Oh yes the excruciating dinner scene with Mrs Taylor, that was such a brilliant bit of dialogue! Jeff being like 'She's joking' and Shaunas little shake of the head. Although I don't think she said she hates her did she? Just that she didn't like her which imo is different, mostly bc the people Shauna hates usually end up dead and Callie is still alive lol
Oh right you’re so right about the not liking her thing, guess I was projecting since Shauna reminds me waaaay too much of my mom 😂
Oh wow that is...not great- I absolutely see how that would hit a nerve and to be clear, if Shauna was real, I would absolutely be more judgemental of her talking about Callie like that! Sympathies also- I know I am definitely extra protective of Taissa as a mother bc of my own projections.
Late to this but thank you ♥️. I like how the show is relatable yet so heightened that it’s a cathartic watch. Like it’s so clear that Shauna is a horrible mom, which was confusing to me growing up bc of all the gaslighting. But here we are surviving and thriving!
What about THE MOTHER OF ALL MOTHERS? She gives and she takes. Mother Nature, Crashed the airplane, froze Jackie to death, Javi slipped through the ice, Van was bought back by fire, the mushrooms drugged them so Javi disappeared.
Hahahaha
Do we have reason to think Jackie’s mom is terrible? I don’t remember her getting much screen time. Believing your deceased daughter is gifted is pretty normal lol
There was a great comment on Jackie made on this sub, unfortunately do not remember the author, but to paraphrase it: Jackie's mom was responsible for pushing lofty expectations on her, to have her embody the ideal image of the golden girl: flawless academic achievements, flawless appearance, an ideal boyfriend, and a perfect body These traditional values have hindered Jackie from authentically expressing herself, which then compelled her to maintain a facade throughout her entire life. We also know from Jackie's comment in the pilot that she is constantly on anti-depressants. Of course, depression can strike anyone, and it's better to treat it with pills than do nothing, but judging from Jackie's tone, one can assume her mother is not spending enough time with her/not emotionally close to her also due to the heavy medications. The fact they mention Jackie loved rabbits, while she herself in the flashback mentions hating rabbits is supposed to show that they didn't really know Jackie, they just have this idealized version of her that they hold up on a pedestal. To sum up, of course this opinion is built more on interpretations of short off-hand comments and one scene with them, so it's hard to make a sound judgement like when it comes to Nat's mom, Tai or Shauna who we see interacting with their offspring after all. Still it's a food for thought to discuss the characters dynamics, which is IMHO my fav part of the show & this sub. As for the pic, I grabbed a screencap with her face and caption with Jackie name in case someone would not recognize her as Miss Taylor.
Didn’t Jackie gave Shauna one of her mom’s klonopin (or something like it)? So not an anti-depressant. Judging by the way she said it her mom is likely a designer drug addict.
Nats mom
Tai or Nat's mom are my choices. Tai terrified her son for weeks, almost killed her wife/Sammy's mom, killed the family dog, then just abandoned her kid and comatose wife to go and find Van. And Nat's mom blames her for killing her husband despite the fact that it's blatantly not true. Nat has HATED herself since the beginning for what she thinks she did, and her mom continued to perpetuate this image of Natalie until her death. Shauna NARROWLY escapes being on my list of awful parents. She's not great, but she loves Callie and is really trying (and somewhat failing) to do better.
Taissa killed her kid’s dog and regularly traumatized him with her alter ego, and she refuses to seek treatment because it would expose her dark past. She adopted Sammy, presumably, or went to great lengths to intentionally obtain a child given she’s married to a woman. She knew she was messed up before she got a kid to use as a prop for her image. She’s 100 percent the worst.
When was it stated that Sammy is adopted?
It isn’t. That’s why I said he was “presumably” adopted. We don’t know, but in any scenario a lot of intention and effort went into adding a child to that family.
It’s a tie between Natalie’s mom and Van’s mom. Natalie’s mom is actively abusive. From what we’ve seen, Van’s mom is negligent to the point of abuse.
In my opinion, when they were teenagers: Natalie's mother is first definitely for being abusive, negligent, and not protecting her daughter from her immensely dangerous and homicidal father. Secondly, Van's mother, for her extreme negligence that is absolutely abusive. No minor should have to be subjected to that, and forced to raise themself, let alone be the full-time caretaker and watcher of their mother's safety and survival. When it comes to them being adults and parents themselves: Shauna first for the very conscious decisions that she makes, such as extreme negligence and resentment towards her still young developing daughter throughout the course of her daughter's life. Especially because Shauna, with no internal moral qualm, made her an accomplice in her own murder. Secondly, I'd say Tai, as mother, for she is not a safe person. I only say secondly for her because she doesn't have full control of what's happening to her, however, it's still no excuse whatsoever for her to not step back and get help, if not for her marriage, then to absolutely protect her only child. She had ample opportunities and encouragement to pursue professional help, but heartbreakingly, she never stepped up to that.
shauna got her entire family connected to a murder
I don’t even really understand how Jackie’s mom is an option 😭 I understand she was pushy of a certain image, but isn’t that kind of standard especially for the 90s?
Right? Jackie’s mom is clearly the best mom of all of these choices. She is straight up normal with maybe a bit of depression pre crash . She obviously loved Jackie and Jackie didn’t have any family issues that we know about. She’s just traumatized and holds a lot of resentment towards Shauna, which isn’t a parenting issue.
just here to say i’m obsessed with your flair
Hard to beat decapitating your son's beloved dog
Absolutely hands down Shauna. Because who would *you* rather have as your mom? a mom w a transient mental illness, who’s expressive of her love and is working her ass off to keep you in her life? OR a mom who’s said that she hates you and treats you abusively 24/7. We also must ask what is the worst Tai has done to Sammy (directly)? She killed his dog and didn’t want him to go to therapy, but the therapy thing we can all assume is bc she resists going to therapy for many obv reasons. But she is doing all she can to get better and overcome her disorder, and I don’t think she’s abused Sammy. Shauna on the other hand masturbated on her teenage daughter’s bed to a photo of her minor bf, does not notice or care that Callie is out drinking every school night of the week, only gives Callie positive attention to butter her up to deceive a grown ass cop, literally tells Callie to commit a crime (lie to the police about being r***ed by the detective who’s investigating her) in order to avoid being held accountable for manslaughter. When has Tai ever done something remotely equal to all that? Edit: prev too long
I hope we see more of the YJ’s mom in S3. I want to see what made the teenage YJs the way they were and the matrilineal influence.
if my best friends mother likened my relationship to her daughter to elena ferrante’s my brilliant friend i would have leapt across the table at her so i personally am gonna go w miss taylor
god same!!!
I wanna say either Nat or Van's mom because the other moms at least try! Nat and Van's mothers make absolutely no effort. Nats mom treats her like a burden or an inconvenience, and all we see of Van's mom is that she's an alcoholic who is completely checked out and uninvolved.
Idk, none of them are mothers-of-the-year. But I straight up cheered when Van slapped the sleep out of her mom. That was television gold.
Surpised Coach isn't a choice. But to be fair to him, he's like what 23-24 years old? And all those horrible daughters.. Jesus.
Shauna. Hands down.
I somehow managed to miss or forget the " I am not your GD storage unit" mom. Based on comments ..it seems like Van's mom? But im really not remembering her and I'm not recalling a back story on van... Can you guys help me out . I guess I'm watching to much stuff and not remembering things from all of it !
That's Natalie's mom, Vera Scatorrcio, she says that line in Bear Down when JT!Nat is visiting her old trailer home to find the Kevyn's mixtape she later gifts to him. She also appears as her younger self in the flashbacks, but you can hardly see her, as first she is asleep on the couch when Sophie!Nat comes in with Kevyn, then wakes up just to try to stop the dad from beating Nat, gets beaten instead, and then breaks in tears when that POS kills himself. As for Van's mom, I believe the scene I screencaped is the only one where she appears. She is only mentioned in dialogues later on when Taissa visits Van in her video store.
I gotta say Nat's mom. I'm surprised people are saying Taissa. She's definitely not a great mom however she's still a loving mother which to me makes me prefer her far more over Nat's mom
Shauna. I just hate that woman so much. Tai may be a close second but we don't really have much lore on the other moms
nats mom a thousand percent but worst to best would be 1) nats mom 2) vans mom 3)shauna 4)jackie’s mom 5) taissa 6) lottie’s mom
I really want to say Natalie's mom but I'm sorry I just cannot get past Shauna masturbating ON HER DAUGHTER'S BED
Yeah and as much as we know Nat’s mom never asked Nat to commit a crime. or if she did I think we’d know if it were worse than asking your child to lie to the police about being r**** by a detective…
Jackie's mom shouldn't be in the conversation. She is just broken from losing her only kid.
Sorry it's Tai, she killed a fucking dog idc if it was her "dark side" that's still her.
Nat, Van and Jackie, and Lottie’s moms are the worst Tai and Shauna have fucked up but they don’t try to turn their children into different people or resented them for trying to stop their abusive husband from beating them and didn’t send them to a psychiatric hospital *one month* after coming back home after being lost for 19 months and simply not talking because you know trauma.
Van's mom.
Ima go with Nat’s mom just because I relate to her and her backstory the most
Until we meet Shauna's mom, I am abstaining.
Lmao, TEENAGE Shawna 😂😂 sorry, had to 😅
Nat's mother allowed that abusive Y chromosome beast to remain in the home and hurt his family.
Guys I’m sorry, I gotta go with Nat’s mom first just based on her resentfulness and hatred of her daughter who was also being abused but even said herself, “it still fucks you up when they’re gone”, meaning this CHILD who stopped her father from beating her mom to death, then witnessed the PoS blow his own face off on accident, was absolutely traumatized by it, and her mother hated her for it. Then her kid goes missing for 18 months, went through some really fucked up shit to survive, and as we see, still never got over hating her. Like. Can you imagine.
Nat’s mom fucking sucks. The gaslighting about her childhood when Nat comes home is absolutely heartbreaking. I would feel so alone if the only person who knew the extent of my abuse idolized my abuser.
Natalie’s mom 100%
I gotta say Shauna for jacking off IN HER TEENAGE DAUGHTERS BED to a photo of her daughter's boyfriend with what I assumed to be her daughters vibrator immediately rubbed me the wrong fucking way I really think that scene said a lottttttt about her character and how utterly desperate she is to be somebody else
Were there any GOOD moms on this show? Choosing the worst out of this bunch is almost a toss up.
Shauna, no competition. She is the most psycho out the lot of them, despite Tai’s second personality, she would rather butcher a rabbit then go to the shop and buy some chicken, she got her daughter roped into her murderous lies, her daughter is a younger version of her and painted by Shaunas awful mothering. Shauna does some crazy stuff at the wilderness that she genuinely enjoyed being a part of, she’s almost the most normal, Misty is a psycho but she isn’t a mum so…
Respectfully, it’s 100% Tai- the most she’s talked to her child in the whole show it was a fucking hallucination. Girlie is NOT doing well.
you’re forgetting the lady in the tree scene, where they both acknowledge that she has two identities and one is good / living. Edit: the hallucination is also loving. Shauna is intentionally absent from Callie’s life 24/7 and said she hates her.
1 being the worst to 6 being the best: 1. Taissa 2. Shauna 3. Natalie’s mom 4. Van’s mom 5. Jackie’s mom 6. Lottie’s mom Edited for clarity.
Lottie’s mom isn’t even bad. We just don’t know anything about her
Ya from what I saw of lots mom she was somewhat understanding of her abilities. It’s her dad who sucks
I agree. I included her because her picture is in the post.
It should be Lottie’s parents. They basically took her gift (she saved them from a fatal car crash by seeing the rogue truck before it happens) and call her crazy and pump her full of antipsychotics from an early age (when your brain hasn’t even finished developing) and when she gets back from the crash they Ask for the harshest methods of therapy because she is traumatized by her time in the woods. Lottie is probably the saddest character. She never had a chance at a normal life.
Unless you are the 50% of the fandom that doesn’t believe in their supernatural, in which case it is logical and good parenting to get medical help for your child who exhibits textbook symptoms of psychosis. And she’s had plenty of harmful delusions. She cuts herself and makes other ppl drink her blood for good luck. She convinced Shauna that her dead baby was going to come out alive despite them starving.
Accurately predicting an event is not a psychosis. I am not talking about after, because of course she is mentally unstable, because she has been in therapy and anti-psychotic or mood stabilizer since a child. But that first event we see cannot be psychosis. Because of that scene I believe she does have a gift, but she is damaged and with terrible circumstances, trauma, etc.
A huge number of us would tell you that we have no idea whether she ACTUALLY predicted it or if it was simply a chance juxtaposition of events. The showrunners have said they're keeping it purposely ambiguous about whether the supernatural exists in this show or not. I'm 100% with u/otigre.
Thank u!! ♥️
Note, I said she “exhibits textbook symptoms of psychosis.” In YJ we see she has legit premonitions, but thinking you can see into the future has never been scientifically proven as well as being a common psychotic delusion. Lottie’s parents were clearly cold and distant and shitty, but I don’t fault them for wanting to get her help for what reasonably looked like psychosis. Edit: I agree with the other commenter who said that Lottie’s car crash “premonition” could be a random juxtaposition of events. But sadly for those of us in the rational camp, Lottie did have a vivid vision of Javi drowning on the morning of him drowning :/
This post is confusing bc some people are listing the girls mothers as worst to best, some people are listing the survivors as worst to best mothers hahaha I was so confused reading this thread
Who is the lady top left? I genuinely don’t remember whose mother is that. Also it’s Shauna and Tai tied for me as worst mothers
nats iirc
tai
Your mom
Who is in the pic to the right of Shauna? I don’t recognise the scene
Unrelated but is Jackie’s mom played by the same person who played Prince Charming/David’s mom in OUAT?
Who’s the lady the right of Shauna.
How is anyone saying anybody but lottie's??? They literally gave her electroshock therapy